The Way of the Warrior

Nitcentral's Bulletin Brash Reflections: DS9: Season Four: The Way of the Warrior
By Cableface on Friday, December 18, 1998 - 2:43 pm:

In one of the guides, I think it was NextGen 2, the Chief talks about the general Starfleet code of combat; get hit 200 times, ask for status, get hit 200 times, ask for shields, get hit 200 more times and fire one shot.Then repeat.It's good to see that with this episode and from now on, this rule goes totally out the window.The Feds kick ass.And it get even better later on.


By Avidan Ackerson on Tuesday, January 05, 1999 - 6:01 pm:

In "The Way of the Warrior" you see the Klingons are beaming over, and attacking everywhere. There is a scene with Garak and Dukat who are fighting, as Garak puts it "side by side". Dukat is grappling with a Klingon, while Garak is shhoting them down. So, why doesn't Garak shoot the Klingon that's fighting with Dukat? Does he think a Klingon will come down to kill him, if he helps Dukat? Does he think that he'll miss, and hit something else? Does he just want Dukat to be killed? Personally, I go with the last one.


By Cableface on Monday, March 01, 1999 - 11:03 pm:

At one point, a Klingon comes a Odo with a Batleth and Odo loks worried.Why?It's a blade.If he gets cut in half, he can just melt and reform.


By Lea Frost on Saturday, January 09, 1999 - 10:08 am:

I don't think this qualifies as a nit per se, but in the famous scene where Quark and Garak talk about root beer and the Federation, the root beer that Quark pours for Garak is extremely flat. (That's what happens when you store your root beer in a big pitcher!) No wonder Garak thought it was vile... :-)


By Hans Thielman on Tuesday, March 02, 1999 - 6:20 am:

Does Quark serve Coca Cola or Pepsi in his bar?


By Lea Frost on Saturday, January 09, 1999 - 3:36 pm:

He serves Sluggo Cola! I now apologize profusely for reminding everyone of that particular show. :-) (At the DS9 board I frequent we call it The Episode Whose Name We Do Not Speak.)


By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Tuesday, March 02, 1999 - 1:18 pm:

My favorite sceene in this episode is the Root Beer sceene. Ironicly, it dosen't involve Worf, the main charater in this episode.


By Anonymous on Tuesday, March 02, 1999 - 2:15 pm:

what episode?


By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Tuesday, March 02, 1999 - 4:28 pm:

The Way of The Warrior


By Anonymous on Wednesday, March 03, 1999 - 12:59 pm:

So why don't people speak it's name?


By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Wednesday, March 03, 1999 - 3:49 pm:

I wouldn't inflict "Profit and Lace" on my worst enemy. Not even the Borg deserve that.


By Rene on Friday, January 15, 1999 - 6:28 pm:

I liked the episode.


By Chris Marks on Friday, April 16, 1999 - 4:26 am:

I've just thought of a huge nit, either in this episode, or in the Shadow/Light two parter in season 5.
At the start, Martok comes into the confernce lounge, and he, Sisko and Kira use Martoks blade to prove they're not changelings by spilling blood onto the lighttray. By Apocalypse Rising, Martok is now a changeling. However, in "In Purgatory's Shadow (I think, I havn't seen it for a while), Martok has been a dominion prisoner for two years, which would be somewhere around the middle of season three (ignoring the premise that changelings have already started replacing people two and a half years before the war started). Of course, the Martok changeling could have had a supply of klingon blood somewhere, but how could it have kept it from drying out during storage?


By Keith Alan Morgan on Saturday, May 08, 1999 - 8:42 am:

Was it some kind of order that during this exercise Odo be referred to as simply a "Changeling" instead of as Odo? (True, if they had referred to him as Odo then the audience might have realized that this was some kind of drill, but the characters wouldn't have known an audience was watching.)

Boy, that Alexander Siddig sure looks a lot like Siddig El Fadil.

Sisko says to schedule a surprise drill... If it is scheduled, then how can it be a surprise?

Kasidy says that Cestus III is 3 weeks away at maximum warp, but in Family Business she says that it takes a subspace communication 2 weeks to travel from Cestus III to Bajor. I thought subspace communications were 60 times faster than the fastest warp?

When meeting Worf, Jadzia says something in Klingon, then tells the others that it loses something in translation. Does any Klingon speaking Nitpicker have a translation?

Personally, I think Jadzia's lusting after Worf made her a weaker character.

REFERENCE TO 6TH SEASON SHOW
Worf attacks Drex, son of Martok, and Martok says that Worf "Robbed my son of his honor!" Interesting that by the time of Soldiers Of The Empire Martok will make Worf a member of his House. (I wonder if that will make Worf and Drex in-laws?)

I wonder what Germans thought of a character named Drex, considering that the German word Drek refers to excrement?

The old Klingon mentions how Mogh saved his family's honor during a blood feud with the House of Duras. Hold it. Hold it. House of Duras? I thought it was called the House of Duras after Duras whom we met in Sins Of The Father & Reunion? I suppose he could have been Duras II or Duras III or Duras could be a family name, but the Klingon Houses seem to bear the personal names of the various Klingons involved.

The justification for warning the Cardassians about the Klingon attack comes from Worf's statement that this is just a start to the return to the old conquering ways of the Klingon Empire. Well, does Worf believe that the Federation didn't know the Klingons were a race of conquerors when it signed the peace treaty?

In Part I, Kasidy said she would be back in 3 weeks, in Part II, she just gets back. Funny, it only seemed like she was gone for a day. (Even less if you watch the story as a two hour movie.)

This nit could go in many episodes, but why does the Defiant need to drop its shields to transport? In the whole history of Star Trek, when a ship is being attacked there is usually some comment about 'aft shields down by something percent', or 'we've just lost the starboard shields' or something to indicate that it is possible to lose part of the shield, but still maintain the rest of the shields. It sounds to me like these ships have at least six shield projectors which produce that oval shield bubble. So couldn't they just drop the keel shields and beam the people on board while maintaining the other five?

I guess Cardassian Guls don't believe in going down with their ship. Gul Dukat beams on board the Defiant while "half the council members" are still on his ship.

The Defiant has just saved the Detepa Council and is heading back to DS9, (Sounds like a TV commercial, "Captain Sisko, you've just saved the Detepa Council. Where are you going next?") but the cloaking device is not working. However, since the Defiant is known to be based at DS9 and DS9 is the closest Federation outpost, would it really matter if they are cloaked or not? The most logical assumption would be for the Klingons to send ships to DS9 and wait for the Defiant, whether it's cloaked or not.

In Civil Defense there was a deadly weapon which zapped non-Cardassians. It's a pity O'Brien didn't isolate the codes to manufacture the device. When another race is attacking the station just program it to vaporize anyone of that race who transports onto the station. (Okay, Worf would have to keep his head down or stay on the Defiant, but hey, it's a small price to pay.)

The mek'leth doesn't seem to offer Worf as much protection as a good old bat'leth. The Bat'leth can act as a shield while being used to stab and slash, while the mek'leth is mainly only good for cutting and stabbing.

The Klingons and Federation officers are battling on DS9 with batleths, mekleths and knives. However, neither Jadzia nor Sisko seem to be using these sharp pointed weapons to their best advantage. It looks like they are trying to use these things as blunt weapons and knock their opponents out instead of stabbing them and moving on to the next Klingon. I realize that the Federation believes in the sanctity of life, but they are fighting for their lives here and they should kill their opponents. (I know, I know. It's just a TV show with actors and stunt men trying to make it look exciting, but still, they could have choreographed it more realistically.)

So why didn't the Organians put a stop to this?


By Matthias Roth on Sunday, May 09, 1999 - 3:41 pm:

To KAM:
The German word "Dreck" means dirt, just plain dirt. I guess it would be the appropriate name for somebody employed in the local waste disposal facility. So, Drex doesn't sound like a warrior's name, hahaha.


By KAM on Monday, May 10, 1999 - 3:52 am:

So if Worf threw Drex in the water his name would be Mud?


By Electron on Tuesday, May 11, 1999 - 1:34 pm:

No, his name would be Mudd, Harry Mudd the wet Klingon.


By Sarah Perkins on Wednesday, May 12, 1999 - 3:41 pm:

As to the Klingon phrase Dax uses:

According to the novelization of this episode, Worf asks if she was once Curzon Dax. Jadzia answers, in Klingon, "Yes, but I'm a lot better-looking than he was." and then adds the comment that it loses something in the translation.

I found this *hilarious* and totally Dax....


By ScottN on Saturday, August 07, 1999 - 12:40 pm:

Phil comments on the color of the kanar in this episode, and actually, the color of kanar has been an ongoing nit in DS9.

Perhaps kanar is a generic term, like wine? Earth wines have various colors, perhaps there are various colors of kanar?


By Anonymous on Sunday, October 03, 1999 - 1:31 pm:

I wonder if the injury and fatality rates would have been much lower if Starfleet had some sort of standard-issue head and body armor (something like police riot gear) for hand-to-hand combat situations like this.

Why is Dr. Bashir out in the thick of the battle, instead of holding down the fort in Sickbay?


By George on Sunday, January 23, 2000 - 12:32 pm:

When did Worf's relationship with Troi end? They seemed to be together at the end of "All Good Things..." (TNG) but no mention seems to be made of it ever again between that and "Looking For Par'Mach In All The Wrong Places" (DS9), when Worf and Dax got together. And certainly no word about it when Riker and Troi got back together in "Star Trek: Insurrection." Was it between "All Good Things" and "Star Trek: Generations"?

Also, one would think Worf and O'Brien would have been surprised to learn that Dax was a Trill. There was no "But I thought Ambassador Odan was a Trill, and she didn't look anything like you...." when each first met Dax, and no explanation of the differences between Trills A and Trills B Phil mentioned in the DS9 Guide.


By Aaron Dotter on Sunday, January 23, 2000 - 8:37 pm:

As to Martok making Worf a member of his house despite Worf having robbed Drex of his honor, wasn't Martok a changeling by this point? Do we have a date for when he was replaced?


By Keith Alan Morgan on Sunday, January 23, 2000 - 10:23 pm:

WARNING! SPOILER!
Yes. The real Martok was in a Dominion prison camp at this time. However, that may have been the real Drex, so he would still be robbed of his honor. (And he didn't kill his father when he returned from captivity, which I believe would dishonor him even more. Wasn't something like that mentioned in the NextGen eps Birthright I & II & the one where Riker served on a Klingon ship?)


By Chris Thomas on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 12:47 am:

If you read the book Imzadi II, it fills in the gaps about the Worf/Troi relationship and is set just after Star Trek Generations but before this story.


By Ratbat on Tuesday, February 08, 2000 - 7:26 am:

So just why doesn't Drex come and get his own knife back? Well, he's a hard one. He *told* on Worf.

It's not really a nit, but Worf looks really out of place wearing his old uniform. Everyone else by this point in the series wears the 'fatigues' on DS9. (In fact, remember Miles in EMISSARY, who managed to *exclusively* wear his 'duty uniform' on the ENTERPRISE, and his fatigues on DS9.)


By Andreas Schindel on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 9:29 am:

At the beginning, Odo turns to a heavy bird. I am surprised, that he can fly. Does he gave an antigrav device in his belly?


By Anonymous on Wednesday, July 12, 2000 - 8:34 am:

KAM: Drek is also Yiddish. Actually, "Drek" not only means dirt in Yiddish, it also means s**t. My father always calls TOS "Star Drek". Sacrilege!

My nit, or strategy question is: If I were leading the Klingons, (haha) I would have been THRILLED that the entire governing body of Cardassia (Detepa Council) fled the planet! I mean, doesn't it make it that much easier for them to take over?

Can you imagine if the U.S. were on the brink of invasion and the President, his top military advisor, and the entire cabinet, fled to, let's say, France??? (I believe the media would describe that situation as "a toppled government.") It would create chaos, and that would only make it easier for the invaders!

And shouldn't the Council stick around to govern during this terrible crisis? Are they so irreplaceable that they have to be spirited away, like the Royal Family? If they were killed, couldn't new leaders be found?

And if they are determined to flee, wouldn't it be safer for them, during an invasion FROM OUTER SPACE, to hide on the planet, and not run off into space?! I mean, it seems to me that hiding under their beds would have been a lot more effective than getting on a ship.


By KAM on Wednesday, July 12, 2000 - 10:22 pm:

Oy vey. Now I'm imagining Jewish Klingons and the circumcism knife really looks nasty.

Years ago when China was taken over by Communists the government fled to Taiwan and, I believe, for decades other countries considered them to be the rightful rulers of China.


By ScottN on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 9:11 am:

Jewish Klingon Mother: Oy! After all the people I've killed for you, what am I, chopped p'tagh liver?


By Anonymous on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 11:18 am:

Kam: What you're saying about Taiwan is true; for decades, in fact, this country did not recognize the Peoples' Republic. However, did that really matter to the people who lived there, and the people in charge?

The Detapa Council could survive, and live in splendid isolation, but if the Klingons were successful in taking over Cardassia, would it really have mattered to the Klingons who the Federation recognized as the rightful ruling body?


By ScottN on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 11:26 am:

I believe the term/concept is "Government-in-exile".

No, the Klingons wouldn't have given a d*mn, but after the war, should the Feds have beaten the Klingons (instead of re-allying against the Dominion), the Detapa Council would have been recognized as the gov't. It would have been kind of hard had they been killed...

As an example, during the Gulf War, the Kuwaiti government was run out of a hotel in Saudi Arabia (60 minutes did a thing on them). Do you think that the Iraqis particularly cared?


By eb on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 12:41 pm:

"It would have been kind of hard had they been killed."

Why? Can't new ministers be appointed to the Council? Can't a new Council be formed? Or are these people like the Royal Family, irreplaceable?


By Adam Bomb on Saturday, August 05, 2000 - 12:17 pm:

This was the first episode for the new look Sisko, which was back to the old "Hawk" look for Avery Brooks, a look he keeps up to this day.


By cableface on Saturday, August 05, 2000 - 5:15 pm:

The "Hawk" look?


By TomM on Sunday, August 06, 2000 - 7:02 am:

Hawk was a character Avery Brooks played on the series "Spenser For Hire." He later spun the character off into his own short-lived series.


By ScottN on Sunday, August 06, 2000 - 7:08 pm:

Sorry, Adam, I believe he started wearing the Hawk look back in Season 3's Explorers.


By Benjamin Daniel Cohen (Bcohen) on Sunday, August 06, 2000 - 11:38 pm:

Scott, Brooks didn't shave his head in "Explorers", he only sported a beard (and IIRC, it was quite noticably fake).


By Spockania on Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 10:55 pm:

Phil made an error in the book- K'bock's Klingon ship was ordered to board and search the Xhosa, not fire on it. But ask Phil commented elsewhere, isn't searching all ships for changlings a really good idea?


By Wannabe Trek Writer on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 12:22 pm:

Sure it is. If you're living under fascist rule and don't mind violating people's civil liberties.

But since the Federation isn't built on Hitler's model for good government, and the Xhosa was a Federation ship in Federation-protected space, then, no, searching them arbitrarily would not be a really good idea.


By Spockania on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 1:24 pm:

I'm not so sure I agree with that. I suppose it depends where the Xhosa was going (it was in Bajoran space, not Federation space, anyway). The US has import/export laws. I don't think it would be a violation of civil rights to phaser the cargo if it was entering or leaving Federation space. Maybe blood testing the people, I admit, would be a bit much. On the other hand, people agree to go through metal detectors to fly...


By Spockania on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 9:31 am:

Ya know, rescuing the Detapa Council might not only have annoyed the Federation, but also the Bajorans- after all, it was their station being damaged by the Klingons. I suppose Sisko being the Emissary explains why there's no political fallout.

Speaking of Bajorans- the security officers must have been spoiled by three years of nothing worse than petty crime. They put up a pitiful fight, most of them standing against the Klingons in an "OK Corral" style. Half of them look like they are dueling the Klingons at noon.

Right after Bashir shoots the Klingon attacking Odo, they stop and have a chat. In the shots behind Bashir there is a Klingon with his back to Julian, perhaps 10 ft away. Odo should be able to clearly see him, but doesn't mention him at all even though Bashir could easily turn, shoot him, and continue the conversation. Is he secretly hoping the Klingon will turn and shoot Julian, or has he read the script and knows this Klingon is about to wander off somewhere else?


By Sven of IQ Nine on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 4:17 pm:

I'm going to get lynched again, by the looks of things...

Regarding the format of this feature-length episode - one of my thoughts after seeing it for the third or fourth time was "is this DS9's second mid-series pilot episode?". Maybe "pilot episode" is a harsh choice of words, but most of the episode seems to be following the storyline mechanism of "things from the new boy's perspective" - in this case, Worf. Plus, of course, this episode is probably one of *the* universally-defining moments of the whole series, what with the major Klingon presence on the station... I mean "on the series". Almost as if the creators are trying to introduce us to our old friends on DS9 all over again!

Does anyone get my meaning? Or am I on my own on this one again?

[sound of lynch mob closing fast]


By Rene on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 3:33 pm:

As soon as I understand what the heck you are talking about, I will answer.


By Sven of Nine on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 2:30 pm:

Watch the episode again, from an "outsider"'s point of view, Rene, and you will soon get the hang of what I think I mean.

What I really mean is that perhaps the creators are trying to get a new audience into the show, who maybe hadn't seen all 3 previous seasons of DS9, and were trying to get Joe Baywatch up to scratch with the characters and plot, in other words. Not that they were ever denying that the last 3 seasons didn't happen, of course, but that this extra-special episode served as a Story So Far(TM).

Or something.

"The best way to write a novel is to write the first chapter, think about where it is leading you, write the rest of the story, then erase the first chapter..."

[The banging noise in the background is the sound of the lynch mob at the door...]


By Rene on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 6:31 am:

Again, no idea what you are talking about. Once I understand, I will try to answer.


By The Tim Lord on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 3:31 pm:

What? You don't understand, Rene? It's simple! Even a child can see what our Sven is saying, or trying to say. Let me explain...
..........


...

[ten hours later...]


...


... then take the sailor's costume, and place the pattern over the word "Maudling".

There. Hope that clarified things.


By The Tim Lord on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 3:32 pm:

:)

Joke! Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on, either...


By Rene on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 3:59 pm:

Joke? What do you mean..."Joke"?! Your explanation helped me understand what he was trying to say!! Thanks alot. Now I'm back to square one!!! ;)


By Chris Booton (Cbooton) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 6:42 pm:

I see what your saying , seven and it makes perfect sence. I just re-watched this today and in perspective this episode really was like a new begining for DS9


By Admiral of the Fleet on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 7:19 pm:

A fellow Canadian who watches DS9 on Space at 5:00 pm, eh Chris? :)


By Chris Booton (Cbooton) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 9:52 pm:

That would be correct :) .


By Rene on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 7:52 pm:

Phil, in his book, makes a big stink about the fact Sisko pauses before ordering to enter into battle against the Klingons and how this situation was inevitable.

If the next action you took could start a war, wouldn't you have trouble giving the order?


By LUIGI NOVI on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 9:18 pm:

I agree, and I would point out that Picard made a similar pause when the Duras sisters' ships attacked the ship Worf was on at the end of Redemption part I(TNG), despite Phil's allegation that Picard never did such a thing on the bridge.

Obviously, the moment was produced this way for dramatic effect, and it was the correct thing for the creators' to do. Phil is trying to find more meaning or fault in it than there really is.


By mike ram on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 10:36 pm:

when being chased back to the station after rescuing dukat and the council members, dukat comes to the bridge. when dax shows him the klingon ships in pursuit of the defiant. dukat says they should cloak immediately.

1. the klingons already know they're heading back to the station, so why cloak?
2. in several episodes (the search part 1, improbable cause, etc.), we get the impression that cloaked ships at warp can be detected because of the tachyon surge (or with anti-proton beams). why engage the cloack if the klingons can detect the ship anyway?
3. worf tells dukat the defiant lost it's cloak rescuing the cardassians. obviously the romulans aren't worried about o'brien tinkering with the cloak, or they wouldn't leave it on board!


By Rene on Monday, December 31, 2001 - 7:35 pm:

I should really keep track of my posts. It took me this long to notice your response to my post, Luigi. Geez. I'm sooooooooo observant. :)

Anyway, glad someone agrees with me anyway. :)


By TWS Garrison on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 1:57 am:

About the Detepa Council:

"It would have been kind of hard had they been killed."

Why? Can't new ministers be appointed to the Council? Can't a new Council be formed? Or are these people like the Royal Family, irreplaceable?


Governments-in-Exile are (often) Good Things. In this case:

Removing the government inhibits the Klingons from using its members to form a puppet regime, and the presence of a government-in-exile would make any puppet government (or colonial administration) less legitimate.

A functioning government provides a rallying point for Cardassian resistance to the Klingons. Without it, Cardassian ships would be more likely to surrender, form competing factions that would fight each other instead of the Klingons, go off and become pirates. . .

Given the history of Cardassian militarism, the civilian government is indeed "irreplaceable". No civilian government would emerge on an occupied Cardassia. (Do you think the Kligons would hold free elections?) If Cardassia were liberated, the soldiers that did it would be heroes and unlikely to cede power to civilians. After occupation and devastating war it would be difficult even in a non-militaristic society to rebuild the apparatus of civil government. Maintaining the present government was the best way to try to ensure a civilian government on Cardassia after the present crisis---and in light of prior history a civilian government on Cardassia was in the Federation's best interest. (Remember there, was a war when the military was running things.)


By Mike Ram on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 9:12 pm:

In the last battle, Worf shoots some Klingons who are standing in front of a green area in OPS. Watch the last Klingon he shoots. A few cuts later, O'Brien shoots a groups of Klingons in the same area, and the same Klingon gets shot last! The only difference is that the camera shoots it from a different angle. ALSO, the same Klingon shows up AGAIN when fighting Sisko hand-to-hand later in the battle (I think the creators ran out of makeup).


By ScottN on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 9:33 am:

Mike, it was obviously SUCH a "good day to die" that he wanted to do it again, and again, and again, and...


By LUIGI NOVI on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 2:33 am:

Good eye, Mike. And Scott, I'm going use your comment for the MST-type heading to Mike's nit. :)


By LUIGI NOVI on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 2:56 am:

Something else: Four Klingons beam into Ops right in front of a turbolift. Worf begins shooting. In the second shot, the second Klingon from the left goes down. That's our guy. Then after Sisko deals with three others that beam in, we see O'Brien begin firing on four Klingons, and as Mike said, the last guy he shoots is the same guy. But it's more than that: It's the same four Klingons, and when they react to O'Brien firing on them, they're performing the exact same reactions as they did when Worf did. The third from the left is hit first. Then the first on the left. The one on the right simply raises his bat'leh, and charges offscreen to the right to engage a target. Then our guy, the second from the left, is hit last.

It's the same shot, filmed twice.


By LUIGI NOVI on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 4:15 am:

And if I were him, I’d become a 21st century door, attach myself to the doorway, and get a cheap thrill every time someone used the doorknob
In the beginning of the teaser, Sisko and Kira step a few feet into a residential room, and begin sweeping it with phaser fire. But what if Odo were the door paneling? Shouldn’t they have started with the door, the doorway, and then worked their way into the rest of the room? Of course, Odo could also have become floor panelling.
Just hope he doesn’t confuse it with Worf’s bat’leh training program
Since Dax apparently managed to convince Kira to try having some fun in a holosuite, despite her stated distaste for them in Second Skin and Meridian, I wonder if Quark thought to make a scan of her while she was in there and finally make that holoprogram Tiron wanted in Meridian, in order to smooth things over with him.
That’s only for gay Klingons
When Martok meets with Sisko and Kira in the wardroom, and cuts his hand to show he’s not a Changeling (even though we find out in Apocalypse Rising that he is), his blood is red. ST VI established that Klingon blood is pink.
They’re moonlighting as Ginsu salesmen?
Why are the Klingons, like Martok’s son Drex, allowed to carry daggers on the Promenade, given Odo’s statement to Sisko in Emissary that he doesn’t allow weapons on the Promenade?
He tried, but when he said to the replicator, "T-shirt. Gray in color. Make it look hot!", the replicator thought he said, "Tea. Earl Grey. Hot."
When Sisko gives Kasidy Yates some as a gift, she’s thrilled, as if it’s hard to get, and Sisko says he’s friends with the Tholian ambassador. Why can’t replicators make Tholian silk?
You don’t want to give a Klingon a sharp pointy object and then tell him he has to throw it at a dartboard
When O’Brien invites Worf to play darts, Worf says he doesn’t play games. Obviously, he’s just being standoffish, since he always played poker with his crewmates on the Enterprise, played Parrises Squares in 11001001(TNG), participated in the Ktarian game in The Game(TNG), and the holo-adventure in the episode A Fistful of Datas(TNG), etc.
Funny how Klingons are expected to go into life-threatening situations, risk their lives, die for their honor and commit suicide if dishonored or captured, but the idea of raising a kid turns them into wimps
When Michael Dorn was asked to join the cast of DS9, one of his conditions was that Worf’s son Alexander not be added to the cast, because he felt that that aspect of Worf’s life had already been addressed on NextGen. In order to explain this in the show, they have Worf tell O’Brien that Alexander was always happier on Earth with his grandparents. This is bogus. He lied, he stole, and he bullied other classmates, as established in New Ground(TNG), and it was intended by the writers of that episode to be out of resentment for feeling abandoned by his father. Consequently, some viewers have asserted that Worf has abandoned his son, and I understand this sentiment. The creators could’ve come up with some better explanation than this. They could’ve had Worf tell O’Brien that he told Alexander that his tenure in Starfleet was uncertain, that he didn’t know where he would be assigned to next, or how long he’d be there, and gave Alexander the choice between moving to DS9 and making new friends, or moving back to Earth with his grandparents, and that Alexander chose the latter. This would have negated the perception that Worf abandoned him. Unfortunately, this is later disproven by Alexander’s behavior toward Worf in Sons and Daughters.
Sisko is descended from Kathie Lee Gifford
After Worf tells O’Brien that he’ll resign from Starfleet, he goes to Sisko, who tells him that he can’t accept his resignation at that time. So what does this mean? Worf can’t leave? What’s Sisko going to do if Worf continues to work? Lock him in the brig? Can a superior actually do this?
Darn voice interfaces. Some people are computer illiterate. Worf is computer mute.
After Odo confronts Worf on the upper level of the Promenade with the conclusion that Worf has found something out about why the Klingons are at the station, Worf goes to Ops asks O’Brien where Sisko is. Why doesn’t he just ask the computer?
Before he connected with Dukat, he checked the Internet for any more rumors about him being gay
The scene with Garak taking Sisko’s measurements while the others discuss the Klingon invasion of Cardassia was very nicely done, and even funny, but there is one problem. When Dukat asks Garak why the Klingons are invading, Garak tells him that his sources tell him that the Klingons think the Founders have taken over the government. The senior staff didn’t mention that bit of information when Garak was present. Did Garak speak with some other sources after taking Sisko’s measurements, but before contacting Dukat? I doubt it, given that Worf said in the wardroom that the Klingon fleet would reach Cardassia within the hour, and stopping first to chitchat with another mole would be a frivolous waste of time. Besides, Garak gives Dukat the same arrival time, so he obviously didn’t do anything between the two scenes.
He’s on a starship shaped like a turtle with body armor, and he thinks the weirdest thing is the cloaking device?
On the Defiant for the first time, Worf says he’s never been on a Federation ship with a cloaking device before, and that it was an odd feeling. Did he forget how the crew hooked up the Pegasus’ phase-cloak at the end of The Pegasus(TNG)?
Today IS a good day to procrastinate!
When the Defiant arrives to see the Cardassian ship under attack by the Klingons, Bashir comments that after "two decades of peace" with the Klingons, it all comes down to this. Two decades? Didn’t ST VIimply that the Khitomer Accords, which occurred 79 years prior to this episode, began the age of peace between the Federation and the Klingons? So it took 59 years for the Federation and the Klingons to come up with a treaty?
Guess those rope tricks Dax learned from that Hopi guy came in handy
Under nits for Paradise, I pointed out how in The Outrageous Okona(TNG), Riker stood over Wesley’s shoulder when Wesley put a tractor beam on Okona’s ship, offering support on keeping the movement of the two ships steady and in sync, as if putting a tractor beam on another ship is a delicate, precise procedure, but this episode, like Paradise, seems to indicate that putting the beam on another ship is a lot easier it looked in the earlier one. When the Defiant rescues Dukat and the Detapa Council in this episode, the Dax locks a tractor beam on the Klingon attack cruiser, which definitely not a willing participant, even less so than the unmmaned Rio Grande in Paradise.
Someone wanna pass Sisko the Defiant specs again?
Immediately after saving Dukat and the Detapa Council, Sisko out an order to the bridge crew: "Raise shields. Activate the cloak." Apparently, Sisko forgot that you can’t do these two things at the same time.
Yeah, but the huge fireball in the vacuum of outer space? Yeah, that’s okay.
The shot of the Klingon attack cruiser flying toward the camera as Dukat’s ship explodes in the background is simply gorgeous. The only problem with it is that when the Cardassian ship explodes, the front of the Klingon ship should go black in silhouette because the explosion is behind it. True, starships should usually be mostly in shadow, and the outer space lighting seen on them in Trek is unrealistic, but this was even moreso.
Man, just how good are his Buffalo Wings?
I don’t understand why Quark feels it necessary to make a stand in front of his bar. Does he really think the Klingons consider the bar a vital area for invasion?
Those guards must be from the NRA
Garak insists on defending the station quarters where the Detapa Council are located, and while Dukat is at first reluctant, he eventually decides to let Garak stand with him. There are two Starfleet security officers standing behind them who don’t say a word. I don’t get this. Do civilians really have the authority to just walk around with weapons, with nary a word from security? I don’t care if Garak claims he’s going to help them; he’s an unknown quantity, a former Cardassian spy who’s armed, and his motives are not necessarily the same as Starfleet’s. Allowing him to stay there, armed, without even saying anything is stupid.
Gowron’s viewer has dramatic close-up sensor
We know the doors on the ships and station read the scripts to know when to open and close, and apparently, so do the main viewers! After the Defiant returns to DS9 following the rescue of the Detapa Council, Martok demands their surrender. Sisko refuses, and says he blood tested the council members. Gowron appears, and the shot of he and Martok remains in a medium shot. When Sisko tells them the station’s been prepped for a Dominion attack, the Ops viewer suddenly cuts to a close-up of Gowron.
Given the way Quark does business, you’d think they’d be mostly water-colored
Toward the end of the episode, when Quark pours a glass of kanar for Garak, the drink is pink. In Destiny, Quark walked into the scientists quarters with a tray holding two bottles of kanar, but they were black in color. True, they turned out to be bad, but if such a color change occurs when kanar goes bad, why did Quark need to smell it? Shouldn’t he have known this, given that he spent all those years on the station during the Cardassian occupation? Or were only the bottles opaque black? If so, why are they clear in this episode?
They must be using those new invisible shields from Kotex
When the Klingons begin attacking the station, there are a few explosions on the habitat ring and other areas, complete with fire and smoke, even before the shields are brought down. Why is the station exploding if the shields are up? Shouldn’t the shields become visible when hit?

The following are cuts made to the episode when it was broken into a two-part episode after its premiere.

---Part I
After the opening teaser, Quark points out to O’Brien and Bashir how quiet it is in his bar. This is cut in the two-parter.

The shot of the Klingon Battle Cruiser orbiting the station after the scene with General Martok in the wardroom with Sisko and Kira is cut.

The scene right after this with Kira and Dax in the Hoobishan Baths program in the holosuite is cut.

After the Hoobishan Baths scene, a Bird of Prey is seen orbiting the station, and then a camera pans the Promenade, from the upper level to the lower level, with Drex eyeballing the patrons. This shot is cut. Instead, it goes from the Bird of Prey directly to Garak and Odo eating breakfast.

While bat’leh dueling with Worf, Dax makes a comment about Worf going easy on her because she’s a woman. This is cut in the two-parter.

In the two-parter, the scene with Worf and Hurraga, the old family friend, (whose name appears in the script and in The Star Trek Encyclopedia, but not in the episode), cuts to a commercial. It simply goes to the next scene in the two-hour premiere.

After Odo confronts Worf on the upper level of the Promenade, Worf goes to Ops and asks O’Brien where Sisko is. This is cut in the two-parter. Instead, Worf simply goes to Sisko. This takes care of a nit, since no one should have to ask another person where someone else is. They can simply ask the computer.

When Garak warns Dukat of the Klingon invasion, the first thing we see is Dukat on Garak’s viewer, and he says, "The Klingons? Why would the Klingons invade us?" In the two-parter, he simply asks the second question. The first sentence, "The Klingons?" is cut.

The following scene contains two alterations from the premiere to the two-parter. The first nit concerns the dialogue of the line itself. The second concerns the camera shots used during the speaking of the line. The numbers I’ve placed in the line indicate who or what the camera is on during each portion. A new number indicates a shot change. The scene occurs after Sisko breaks the news of the Klingon withdrawal from the Khitomer Peace Accords. O’Brien says:

(1) captain, (2)-(3) you’re never going to believe this. (4) a Klingon ship just decloaked off upper pylon three, (5) and is requesting permission to dock. They claim they have Chancellor Gowron on board, and he is demanding to speak with Mr. Worf (6) personally. (7)

First, in the two-parter, the underlined portion of the line above is cut.

Second, the camera shots during this line change in the two-parter. In the original airing, the camera shots correspond to the numbers above as follows:
1. Shot of Dax, Kira and Worf
2. Shot of Sisko turning from the three to face O’Brien
3. O’Brien talking
4. Sisko
5. O’Brien
6. Sisko
7. Worf

In the two-parter, this is the sequence:
(1) captain, (2) a Klingon ship has just de (3) cloaked off upper pylon three. They claim they have Chancellor Gowron on board, and he is demanding to speak with Mr. Worf (4) personally.(5)
1. Dax, Kira and Worf
2. Sisko turning
3. O’Brien
4. Sisko
5. Worf

---Part II

After the Defiant leaves the station, the scene cuts to Bashir entering the bridge behind Sisko, seated in the captain’s chair. In the two-parter, the show cuts to a commercial.

Worf’s line about how it is strange to be on a Federation ship with a cloaking device is cut. This also takes care of a nit, since, in The Pegasus(TNG), he was on a Federation ship with a cloak.

The scene where Quark tells Odo that he intends to stay in front of his bar with his disruptor pistol is cut. (This is a shame, since it’s a really funny scene.)


By LUIGI NOVI on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 4:42 am:

Baby, you’ve never seen Curzon in high heels before!
Great Exchange 1:
Worf: "Curzon’s name is an honored one among my people."
Dax: "Louk, a jeek CHIM-ta law."
Worf: (Somewhat awkwardly)"I suppose so."
Kira: "What did you say to him?"
Dax: "It loses something in the translation."
(Dax actually said, "Yeah, but I’m a lot better looking than he was!")

And explain why Picard spoke with an English accent
Great Exchange 2:
Worf: "We were like warriors from the ancient sagas. There was nothing we could not do."
O’Brien: "Except keep the holodecks working right."

Yeah, between the watered down booze, the rigged dabo wheel and the way Rom skims off the top, you’d think the Better Business Bureau would give the bar an award
Great Line: "How’s a Ferengi supposed to make an honest living in a place like this?!" -Quark, when the station inhabitants begin to prepare for imminent invasion by the Klingons.

Hopefully Rom is allergic to irony?
Great Exchange 3:
Odo (reading a note by Rom left for Quark, who needed his disruptor pistol to defend his bar from the Klingons): "Dear Quark, I used parts of your disruptor to fix the replicators. Will return them soon. Rom."
Quark: (grabbing the note)"I will kill him!"
Odo: "With what?"

Kudos to the creators for detail: Rom’s note to Quark is actually written in Ferengi! Nice touch!


By LUIGI NOVI on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 7:03 am:

Lea Frost: I don't think this qualifies as a nit per se, but in the famous scene where Quark and Garak talk about root beer and the Federation, the root beer that Quark pours for Garak is extremely flat.
Luigi Novi: Sure it’s a nit. Phil mentioned it himself in his DS9 Guide.

Hans Thielman: Does Quark serve Coca Cola or Pepsi in his bar?
Luigi Novi: I would imagine both of those companies were destroyed in WWIII. Even if they still existed, I’d imagine Quark would serve a generic brand.

Lea Frost: He serves Sluggo Cola!
Luigi Novi: That’s a Ferengi drink. I doubt Quark’s human customers would care for "the slimiest cola in the galaxy," which has "43% live algae in every bottle."

Chris Marks: Martok comes into the confernce lounge, and he, Sisko and Kira use Martoks blade to prove they're not changelings by spilling blood. By Apocalypse Rising, Martok is now a changeling. However, in "In Purgatory's Shadow (I think, I havn't seen it for a while), Martok has been a dominion prisoner for two years, which would be somewhere around the middle of season three (ignoring the premise that changelings have already started replacing people two and a half years before the war started).
Luigi Novi: How does establishing that Martok was replaced two years prior to In Purgatory’s Shadow ignore the premise that the Changelings started to replace people two and a half years before the war? Isn’t it precisely consistent with it?

Chris Marks: Of course, the Martok changeling could have had a supply of klingon blood somewhere, but how could it have kept it from drying out during storage?
Luigi Novi: By keeping it cold when not using it, and warming it up when he’s about to cut himself. Remember all the things Changelings can do. They became fire, they can become fog, they can exist as energy, they can survive in the vacuum of space, and if a Changeling becomes a rock, a tricorder will scan the disguised Changeling as a rock, according to The Adversary. It should be no problem at all to keep the blood in his body at whatever temperature necessary, and even if he couldn’t, he could store it in a locker, defrost it by the time he gets to the station (he wouldn’t even need do so naturally; he could probably use a replicator or other device to heat it), stick in his body, and then put on his show for Sisko and Kira.

KAM: Sisko says to schedule a surprise drill... If it is scheduled, then how can it be a surprise?
Luigi Novi: Sisko says this to Kira. They’ll know when the drill is, as would presumably Odo. Everyone else won’t.

KAM: Kasidy says that Cestus III is 3 weeks away at maximum warp…
Luigi Novi: She actually says 8 weeks.

KAM: The old Klingon mentions how Mogh saved his family's honor during a blood feud with the House of Duras. Hold it. Hold it. House of Duras? I thought it was called the House of Duras after Duras whom we met in Sins Of The Father & Reunion?
Luigi Novi: Perhaps it was called the House of Jarod during that feud, but Huraga is simply referring to it by its current name.

KAM: The justification for warning the Cardassians about the Klingon attack comes from Worf's statement that this is just a start to the return to the old conquering ways of the Klingon Empire. Well, does Worf believe that the Federation didn't know the Klingons were a race of conquerors when it signed the peace treaty?
Luigi Novi: But the events of ST VI seemed to represent a watershed event for the softening of the Empire’s attitude towards its neighbors by the NextGen era, which is supported by Ambassador Kel‘s comments in The Mind’s Eye about how differently the Empire is reacting to a demand for independence by one of its colonies, compared to how it would’ve reacted in times past.

KAM: Couldn't they just drop the keel shields and beam the people on board while maintaining the other five?
Luigi Novi: This would depend on where the transporter emitters are located on the exterior of the ship, and just how large an area the shields that cover them are. If there are six shield areas, that could mean a shield area is one sixth the area fo the ship, and bringing down the ones over the area where the emitters are located could leave that portion of the ship vulnerable.

KAM: I guess Cardassian Guls don't believe in going down with their ship. Gul Dukat beams on board the Defiant while "half the council members" are still on his ship.
Luigi Novi: Given how self-important he is, are you surprised? :)

KAM: The Defiant has just saved the Detepa Council and is heading back to DS9, (Sounds like a TV commercial, "Captain Sisko, you've just saved the Detepa Council. Where are you going next?") but the cloaking device is not working. However, since the Defiant is known to be based at DS9 and DS9 is the closest Federation outpost, would it really matter if they are cloaked or not? The most logical assumption would be for the Klingons to send ships to DS9 and wait for the Defiant, whether it's cloaked or not.
Luigi Novi: Sure it matters. The route may not necessarily be a straight line. Maybe ships have to go around the Denorios Belt when going from the station to Cardassia. Cloaking provides an advantage if they zigzag it home. As for the Klingons sending ships to the station, well, that’s exactly what they end up doing.

Keith Alan Morgan: In Civil Defense there was a deadly weapon which zapped non-Cardassians. It's a pity O'Brien didn't isolate the codes to manufacture the device.)
Luigi Novi: Yeah, this is another one of those ways in which the NextGen’s technology is just way too sophisticated to write scripts without huge plot holes. Roger made the same nit for Minefield(ENT) about robots being used to defuse the mine, and you could make them for loads of eps. You don’t even need O’Brien to figure out how to use those specific Cardassian weapons, as Starfleet could easily make automated weapons themselves that could target every Klingon but Worf. I Think replicators and NextGen-era transporters (and to a lesser degree, holodecks) really cause more problems writing-wise than anything else.

Keith Alan Morgan: The mek'leth doesn't seem to offer Worf as much protection as a good old bat'leth. The Bat'leth can act as a shield while being used to stab and slash, while the mek'leth is mainly only good for cutting and stabbing.
Luigi Novi: Different weapons have different advantages and disadvantages. Yeah, the bat’leth acts as shield, or at least a larger one. But the mek’leth weighs less, and is smaller, so it is easier to manipulate, and may be seen as better for close-quarters combat.

Keith Alan Morgan: So why didn't the Organians put a stop to this?
Luigi Novi: LOL. Perhaps they knew that it would only last for a year and a half.

Anonymous: Why is Dr. Bashir out in the thick of the battle, instead of holding down the fort in Sickbay?
Luigi Novi: I got the impression that he simply stepped out for a sec before stepping back in. If there were no casualties coming in, perhaps he couldn’t stand by when he saw that he had clear shots at some Klingons.

Andreas Schindel: At the beginning, Odo turns to a heavy bird. I am surprised, that he can fly. Does he gave an antigrav device in his belly?
Luigi Novi: Where is it established that the bird he turns into is heavy? His mass doesn’t remain the same when he shapeshifts, it fluctuates.

Spockania: I suppose it depends where the Xhosa was going (it was in Bajoran space, not Federation space, anyway). The US has import/export laws. I don't think it would be a violation of civil rights to phaser the cargo if it was entering or leaving Federation space.
Luigi Novi: Except that the Federation wasn’ t the one doing this. The Klingons were. The Kingons can’t just go into Bajoran space and do that.

Spockania: Right after Bashir shoots the Klingon attacking Odo, they stop and have a chat. In the shots behind Bashir there is a Klingon with his back to Julian, perhaps 10 ft away.
Luigi Novi: I noticed that too.

Sven of IQ Nine: Regarding the format of this feature-length episode - one of my thoughts after seeing it for the third or fourth time was "is this DS9's second mid-series pilot episode?". Almost as if the creators are trying to introduce us to our old friends on DS9 all over again! Does anyone get my meaning? Or am I on my own on this one again?
Luigi Novi: How could you be, when that’s pretty much what the creators intended? :) They specifically asked for a bigger budget for this episode because they wanted a two-hour movie to act as a jumping-on point for new viewers attracted because of the addition of Worf.

Mike Ram: in several episodes we get the impression that cloaked ships at warp can be detected because of the tachyon surge (or with anti-proton beams). why engage the cloak if the klingons can detect the ship anyway?
Luigi Novi: We don’t know if the Klingons are familiar with this tracking method. Sisko and crew didn’t even know that anti-proton scans could detect cloaked ships until the Jem’Hadar used that technique in The Search part I, and Sisko had to turn and ask T’Rul if that method worked, and T’Rul was reluctant to answer.


By LUIGI NOVI on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 9:39 am:

They were on their raktajino break
When Kasidy’s distress signal first comes into Sisko’s office, Sisko tells Kira that Kasidy left an hour ago. By the time the Defiant gets to the Xhosa, the M’Char still has the Xhosa in its tractor beam. What’s taking it so long? If it took the Xhosa an hour to get out here, then it must’ve taken the Defiant around that long, perhaps less. Shouldn’t the crew of the M’Char have conducted their search already, or at least begun to?
That’s just her way of saying, "You all that and a bag of chips"
After Sisko successfully repels the M’Char from the Xhosa, Kasidy contacts the Defiant and tells Sisko, "I don’t know what you said to those Klingons, but it must’ve been good." Doesn’t she have sensors? Doesn’t she know the Defiant fired on the M’Char?


Regarding my nit about Garak’s sources telling him that Changelings took over the Detapa Council, I forgot that Garak mentioned to Odo during their breakfast that he had heard disturbing things about what’s been going on on Cardassia, so that nit is disproven.

And Keith, regarding Huraga referring to the House of Duras, instead of the House of Jarod, remember that there were several empty bottles of bloodwine lying about, so he was three sheets to the wind.

And as far as the Organians, didn’t they impose that treaty (perhaps) in part because the Federation came into conflict with Klingons on the Organians planet? Perhaps they don’t interfere beyond their sphere of influence.

Keith Alan Morgan: In Part I, Kasidy said she would be back in 3 weeks, in Part II, she just gets back. Funny, it only seemed like she was gone for a day. (Even less if you watch the story as a two hour movie.)
Luigi Novi: First, she said two weeks. Second, while it is true that many Trek episodes take place over time spans that are sometimes difficult for the director to convey, there is nothing to indicate that this time didn’t pass, and plenty of opportunities between span where it not only could’ve passed, but must’ve. After Sisko rescues the Xhosa, Kira tells Sisko that the Klingons have modified their policy, and are now searching ships in unclaimed space. It must’ve taken some time for the Defiant/M’Char encounter to have gotten back to Martok, and then to Gowron, for Gowron or Martok to have issued the new orders, for news of the Klingons altered m.o. to have gotten to Kira, etc. Then, after Martok announced Kaybok’s execution to Sisko and Dax, Sisko had to summon Worf, who needed time to arrive at the station. There is plenty of plot to cover two weeks, even if that feeling is difficult to sense when watching it.


By Sparrow47 on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 9:56 am:

Wow, nice set of nits, Luigi, but how did you get the word "••••••" in there? Is the censorware off-line? (Okay, it caught me... what gives?)


By LUIGI NOVI on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 6:03 pm:

Sparrow: Wow, nice set of nits, Luigi...
Luigi Novi: Wha--? How DARE you! You sexist piece of....oh, you said nits. Uh, never mind.

And thank you.

Sparrow: but how did you get the word "stupid" in there? Is the censorware off-line?
Luigi Novi: There's a trick to it. :)


By Sparrow47 on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 10:14 pm:

Well, obviously. I'm guessing... something to do with the preview post?


By Anonymous on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 11:53 pm:

stupid

Cool it worked!


By KAM on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 3:59 am:

3 for 8 & 3 for 2. I hope that was caused by my sloppy handwriting rather than a hearing problem.

Maybe I should have mentioned Tip O'Neal carrying a fish breifcase
IIRC the 'gone a day' comment was meant to be a joke, Part I aired one day, Part II aired the next.

Anonymous, use that trick wisely.


By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 4:12 am:

Oh. You mean when you first saw it, you saw it after its premeire, when it was broken into two eps?


By KAM on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 4:33 am:

When I nitpicked this story. I wasn't a nipicker when it first aired. I had to wait for the syndicated reruns to nitpick it.


By LUIGI NOVI on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 10:52 am:

Ah. I started after NextGen ended its original run. I had already been reading the Guides that were out by that time.

Maybe a board for this is in order?


By Josh Gould-DS9 Moderator (Jgould) on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 1:45 pm:

A board for what? Syndication cuts to two-hour episodes?


By LUIGI NOVI on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 2:41 am:

Look at the top of the Next Day page in the TOS Sink, Josh. :)


By Josh Gould-DS9 Moderator (Jgould) on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 9:05 am:

I don't know... that sounds like an awful lot of work. :)


By Mike Ram on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:23 pm:

Thanks for your kind words about my "Klingon dies twice" nit.

-Of course Dukat beams over with the Detepa Council; I think earlier he said he was a top-ranking official working with them. If Cardassia was attacked and freed later, Dukat might be the next in line to get power!

-What did the crew do with all the Klingon bodies after the battle? Cremate them? Put them in torpedo tubes and shoot them into Bajor's sun? Disintegrate them with phasers? Put them in the transporter and let their patterns degrade?


By Mike Ram on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:27 pm:

Something else, I noticed Worf's eyebrows are a lot longer in this show than in future eps (and they're curly too!).


By ScottN on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:00 am:

Hans Thielman: Does Quark serve Coca Cola or Pepsi in his bar?
Luigi Novi: I would imagine both of those companies were destroyed in WWIII. Even if they still existed, I’d imagine Quark would serve a generic brand.

Doesn't he serve Sluggo Cola?


By LUIGI NOVI on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 8:17 am:

That’s a Ferengi drink. I doubt Quark’s human customers would care for "the slimiest cola in the galaxy," which has "43% live algae in every bottle."

And you're very welcome, Mike. :)


By Frye on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 7:32 pm:

Maybe its soylent soda?


By constanze on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 5:13 am:

-Maybe I misunderstood sth. about the TNG ep. dealing with Gowron and Worf (or when I missed part I of this ep.), but when Gowron says to Worf that worf owes him sth. because he restored his family name, honor, seat on the council and property, I thought "huh". Didn't picard and worf help gowron when the duras family tried to start a civil war? Didn't worf get his honor back as reward for his help in this matter?

-So, shortly after Odo kills for the first time in his law-enforcment career, a member of his own people, now worf fights and kills legitimite soldiers of his people (not renegades or rebels as in the civil klingon war). Will any of them receive any kind of counseling to cope with that guilt of fighting against the own people? A pity there is no counselor on DS9.

ScottN,
Phil comments on the color of the kanar in this episode, and actually, the color of kanar has been an ongoing nit in DS9.

Perhaps kanar is a generic term, like wine? Earth wines have various colors, perhaps there are various colors of kanar?


I quite agree with that: why should one kind of drink always have the same appearance?

Andreas Schindel: At the beginning, Odo turns to a heavy bird. I am surprised, that he can fly. Does he gave an antigrav device in his belly?
Luigi Novi: Where is it established that the bird he turns into is heavy? His mass doesn’t remain the same when he shapeshifts, it fluctuates.


This is one of the big nits in Phils guide: How can a shape changer change his mass? It violates the principles of physic. And from "adversary", we know he can't leave a part behind, as it would melt. If, on the other hand, Odo is light enough to turn into a bird, or a rat, or a bag, then he shouldn't be as heavy in his form.

-About worf quitting starfleet: maybe because I missed part I, but I immediately thought of the TNG 2-parter, where civil war breaks out in the klingon empire. Worf leaves Starfleet, joins his brother in a fleet, wins, reinstalls gowron, comes back - and picard held his resignment all the time, so worf is back in starfleet with no trouble at all. So I thought: this is another fake one, sisko will sit on it, too. Of course this is what happens. (and as to why sisko doesn't let him quit immediately: they are in a state of alarm, I think, so a semi-military organization like starfleet might not allow people quitting right before battle! :)


By LUIGI NOVI on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 3:14 pm:

constanze: This is one of the big nits in Phils guide: How can a shape changer change his mass? It violates the principles of physic.
Luigi Novi: In the Marvel Comics universe, it is explained shapeshifters and other beings who can do things like this draw or shift their mass from a possibly extradimensional source. At least, that's how the Offical Handbooks of the Marvel Universe explained it. Perhaps it works on a similar principle in Trek. Perhaps Changelings can shift their mass back and forth into subspace.


By Darth Sarcasm on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 9:23 am:

Has it ever been established how much Odo weighs? Maybe he has very little mass to begin with?


By constanze on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 10:50 am:

Luigi: This may work in the Marvel Universe, but the Star Trek Universe tries to run on scientific principles with its technobabble. Shifting mass into an extradimension would be quite a feat for biological entity, since dimension shifts in the Star Trek universe work only with machines - hyperspace engines, mirror universes by transporter accidents, quantum whatnots etc. It would violate the previously shown rules of the trek universe.

Darth, Phil lists in the DS9 guide an ep. where odo is said to weigh around 90 kg, like a normal human. Besides, if he really has less mass to begin with - say, 40 kg which is, I think, the upper limit for a bird or a bag, already too much for a rat or a cat - it should be noticeable whenever he appears as a humanoid. His low mass would affect his "weight behind the punch" in fistfights, the imprints he leaves when walks on soft surfaces, the pressure he can exert on surfaces, how difficult he is to lug around when unconscious...


By Darth Sarcasm on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 2:49 pm:

Besides, if he really has less mass to begin with - say, 40 kg which is, I think, the upper limit for a bird or a bag, already too much for a rat or a cat - constanze

But why 40kg? Why not less? Just because he looks like a bird or a bag doesn't mean he weighs like one, too. Heck, he can weigh as much as an empty glass (Vortex).


...it should be noticeable whenever he appears as a humanoid. His low mass would affect his "weight behind the punch" in fistfights... - constanze

Force is mass times acceleration. Air doesn't have all that much mass, but it can sure do considerable damage at sufficient velocities. So the weight behind Odo's punch would depend on how he projects the punch.


...the imprints he leaves when walks on soft surfaces, the pressure he can exert on surfaces... - constanze

Do you have evidence that he leaves imprints in soft surfaces? And, again, the pressure he applies depends on how he applies his mass to a surface.


how difficult he is to lug around when unconscious... - constanze

When he's unconscious, he's a liquid. Lwaxana Troi didn't find him so uncomfortable to hold in her lap when he was in his liquid state.

Of course, the question still remains (for me) whether Odo's mass was ever established on the show. My recollection is fuzzy. I think it may have been stated. But I can't be sure where/when.


By Josh M on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 4:21 pm:

When he's unconscious, he's a liquid. Lwaxana Troi didn't find him so uncomfortable to hold in her lap when he was in his liquid state.
As Phil pointed out in the DS9 Guide, that's not always true. He stayed solid in both Vortex and Broken Link, and possibly Dramatis Personae.


By LUIGI NOVI on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 2:23 am:

constanze: Luigi: This may work in the Marvel Universe, but the Star Trek Universe tries to run on scientific principles with its technobabble.
Luigi Novi: C’mon, constanze. Trek no more sticks to real science with its technobabble than most comic book universes or any other sci-fi continuum do with theirs. :)

constanze: Shifting mass into an extradimension would be quite a feat for biological entity, since dimension shifts in the Star Trek universe work only with machines - hyperspace engines, mirror universes by transporter accidents, quantum whatnots etc. It would violate the previously shown rules of the trek universe.
Luigi Novi: There is no such rule. Nowhere has it ever been established in Trek that dimension shifts can only be done with machines. The idea that we’ve only seen it done thus far with machines doesn’t make it a rule. Only a precedent.

But if you want an example of dimension shifts performed with biological entities in Trek, I would point you to Scorpion parts I and II(VOY).


By constanze on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 3:21 am:

Luigi: yes, it hasn't been mentioned as a rule, and yes, Trek writers often violate physics right and left. However, the producers want to portray it accurately, and that's why its such a big nitpick or ICBN whenever a physics principle is violated.

It just makes more sense (common sense or physical sense) that an entity who can shapeshift can not also move his mass into extradimensions. Besides, if you think this through, what's to prevent the founders from moving all of their mass into that extra-dimension and use it to travel? The federation wouldn't stand a chance if the founders can shift 95% of their mass/body into an extra-dimension and leave just a "sensor" disguised as sth. else lying around.

You are right to mention the aliens from the delta quad in the voy. ep.; however, these aliens traveled into subspace, not extra-space, and they had only this ability - they couldn't shapeshift. Species 4752 (or whatever - these big insects) come from a fluid space, but again, can't shape shift. So I'm going by evidence so far and what makes sense to me.

As for Odos mass/weight being mentioned, an indirect mention is made in adversary. Odo says "when I change into a rock, I will scan as a rock". Likewise, the founder in this ep. scanned as human. A human with a mass of less than normal (or less than the mass registered before, like bashir) would surely show up highly on a tricorder and be detecable. So this is a huge contradiction to the other instances. Sadly, the writers/producers don't seem to have noticed this problem, as they never tried to explain it.


By LUIGI NOVI on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 8:12 am:

constanze: Luigi: yes, it hasn't been mentioned as a rule, and yes, Trek writers often violate physics right and left. However, the producers want to portray it accurately, and that's why its such a big nitpick or ICBN whenever a physics principle is violated.
Luigi Novi: I don’t see how you can portray such a thing “accurately” since nobody knows a thing about how such a thing would work. You can’t apply accuracy to a concept when there is absolutely zero basis for speculating on how it would work. In what way is confining such a concept to machines more “accurate” than allowing it to be performed by biological entities? Both concepts are entirely fictional, and I don’t find one more plausible than the other.

constanze: It just makes more sense (common sense or physical sense) that an entity who can shapeshift can not also move his mass into extradimensions.
Luigi Novi: To each his own. I personally don’t see any reason why it makes no sense to have these two abilities, as little in Trek science makes sense. Transporters make absolutely no sense to me. Neither does real-time communication with subspace radio or the universal translator. Neither do various aspects of the holodecks.

And since we’re talking about the abilities of a biological entity, neither did the manner in which the faces of the people to which Quark’s old partner in Melora(DS9) belonged evolved, the malady in Genesis(TNG), how the Vhnori culture evolved to use the cenotaphs and the subspace vacuoles as a dumping ground for their dead in Emanations(VOY), when they don’t seem to know the true nature of either one, why Paris and Janeway’s “evolution” in Threshold(VOY) caused them to turn into non-sentient wild amphibians, how the Ramurans ever evolved their memory-wiping pheromones that works on both people and technology in Unforgettable(VOY), why the Void aliens in Night(VOY) have human-sized eyes if they evolved in complete darkness, how the Fettuccini Alfredo creature in Vox Sola(ENT) survived in the vacuum of space if it evolved on a planet with an atmosphere and a sun, how the Vissians in Cogenitor(ENT) evolved if one of their genders, which possess the same mental capabilities as the other two, only comprises 3% of the population, etc.

constanze: Besides, if you think this through, what's to prevent the founders from moving all of their mass into that extra-dimension and use it to travel?
Luigi Novi: The possibility that they can’t do so.

constanze: You are right to mention the aliens from the delta quad in the voy. ep.; however, these aliens traveled into subspace, not extra-space…
Luigi Novi: You said dimension shifts only work with machines in Trek. They don’t. Species 8472 live in another dimension, and can access our dimension through quantum singularities that they can manipulate with their bioships.

There was no mention that they could travel only through "subspace, not extra-space," or even that there is a distinction between these two things. (I also don't know exactly what you mean by your term "extra-space.")

constanze: …and they had only this ability - they couldn't shapeshift. Species 4752 (or whatever - these big insects) come from a fluid space, but again, can't shape shift. So I'm going by evidence so far and what makes sense to me.
Luigi Novi: I don’t see why having more than one fantastic sci-fi/fantasy ability far beyond human experience or understanding is less plausible than one. That’s just me.

constanze: As for Odos mass/weight being mentioned, an indirect mention is made in adversary. Odo says "when I change into a rock, I will scan as a rock". Likewise, the founder in this ep. scanned as human. A human with a mass of less than normal (or less than the mass registered before, like bashir) would surely show up highly on a tricorder and be detecable. So this is a huge contradiction to the other instances.
Luigi Novi: Where was there a Founder disguised in this episode as a human? The only Founder in this episode was the Martok Changeling, and I don’t recall anyone scanning him to see if he was truly Klingon.


By ScottN on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 9:19 am:

Nope, "The Adversary" had a founder on the Defiant.

You're thinking of Apocalypse Rising.


By Darth Sarcasm on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 9:55 am:

Nope, he was thinking "this" episode was Way of the Warrior (it is revealed later that the Martok in this episode was really a changeling)... after all, that's the board we're on.


By ScottN on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 11:10 am:

Whoops! Dopey me!


By Josh M on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 3:16 pm:

it is revealed later that the Martok in this episode was really a changeling

He is? How'd he fake the blood? Did they do what Joseph said they would do in Homefront?


By LUIGI NOVI on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 9:14 pm:

Presumably.


By Josh Gould (Jgould) on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 9:35 pm:

Hmm, was it ever 100% clear that Martok was a changeling in *this* episode? I don't recall how long the Real Martok was in the Dominion internment camp.


By Torque, Son of Keplar on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 10:17 pm:

It wasn't a changling because in this episode Martok knows of honor and the like. Martok knew that Worf dishonored his son by taking away his knife___ This type of incident seems like something that only a Klingon would know.

When he is a changling, the key to exposing him was that Martok didn't know what honor is.


By Brian Fitzgerald on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 11:13 pm:

No, if he was a changling posing as a Klingon I'd hope he'd know how to give lip service to honor and the like or he'd be discovered in 2 seconds flat. Also in the one where Worf finds him in a dominion prison camp doesn't he know nothing about the war between the Federation and the Klingons. Also the whole thing about the fake Marok was that he was the one who pushed for the war with the Federation so they'd be busy fighting eachother instead of the Dominion.


By LUIGI NOVI on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 6:19 am:

He was a Changeling in this episode. It was established in In Purgatory's Shadow.

The real Martok first appeared in that episode, and met Worf for the first time in the Jem'Hadar asteroid prison. When Worf told him that he was "Worf, son of Mogh," Martok said, "Yes, I've heard of you." He told them that he had been there for two years (Way of the Warrior was only about a year and half prior to that episode), and that he had been hunting sabre bear on Kang's Summit when he was kidnapped. The Martok seen from The Way of the Warrior to Apocalypse Rising, therefore, was a Changeling.

Torque, Son of Keplar: It wasn't a changling because in this episode Martok knows of honor and the like. Martok knew that Worf dishonored his son by taking away his knife___ This type of incident seems like something that only a Klingon would know.
Luigi Novi: How do you figure this? Klingon honor is common knowledge, and many other cultures are aquainted with their culture, like Dax, for example. Spies and double agents make it their business, Torque, to study the cultures of the societies they infiltrate to complete their disguise.

Torque, Son of Keplar: When he is a changling, the key to exposing him was that Martok didn't know what honor is.
Luigi Novi: It's not that he didn't know what it is (it's unlikely he could've masqueraded as a Klingon commander for a year and a half if he didn't), I think it's that he simply slipped up when he freed Sisko, Worf and O'Brien to assassinate Gowron and told them that there would be no honorable combat.


By Darth Sarcasm on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 9:32 am:

It wasn't a changling because in this episode Martok knows of honor and the like. Martok knew that Worf dishonored his son by taking away his knife___ This type of incident seems like something that only a Klingon would know. - Torque

Weren't Sisko, O'Brien, and Odo (when he was a solid) able to pass as Klingons in appearance and behavior (Apocalypse Rising)? I think the whole Klingon honor thing is common knowledge.


By Torque, Son of Keplar on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 1:14 pm:

point taken

I had thought that "Apocalypse Rising" gave the impression that the fake Martok was only found out because he did not understand Klingon honor. (Gowron fighting Worf instead of letting Gowron's bodyguards do it. and the no honorable combat)

In my defense, I say that in the "Way of the Warrior," Martok was not a changling. But somehow after this episode, the entire viewing audience only was able to watch some alternate dimension of Star Trek where Martok was indeed a changling, and always had been. :)

Thus...


(Temporal Investigations walks in and...)


By Rene on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 2:40 pm:

"The Martok seen from The Way of the Warrior to Apocalypse Rising, therefore, was a Changeling." - Luigi

I believe it would be more accurate to say "The Way Of The Warrior" AND "Apocalypse Rising" since Martok didn't appear in any episodes in between :)


By Rene on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 2:43 pm:

It was a last minute change to have Martok be the changeling and not Gowron. And it was a good chance, considering Martok wanted to continue the attack at the end of this episode, not Gowron.


By LUIGI NOVI on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 6:40 am:

I've noticed that when it comes to my memory of DS9, certain story arcs and other stretches of time seem longer or more detailed than they really were, perahps because it was a pretty well-written show that my memory forms an impression of greater detail or time then there really was. I hadn't even realized that those were the only two eps with Martok. It seemed like more. Another thing that seemed far longer than it really was was Dukat and Weyoun's onscreen working relationship after Cardassia joined the Dominion. It only lasted just over half a season, but it seemed like longer, I think because it was such a well-written and enjoyable arc.

Thanks, Rene.


By Josh Gould (Jgould) on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 5:39 pm:

Yeah. Damar didn't really become a character unto himself until the first war arc and suddenly in the final arc he becomes a multidimensional war hero. I loved it.


By John A. Lang on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 9:27 pm:

A new season with new obsevations:

This episode marks the first appearance of Sisko's "bald look".

This episode marks the first appearance of the new opening with the improved theme.

This episode marks the first appearance of Siddig El Faddil's name change to Alexander Siddig in the opening credits


By John A. Lang on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 9:29 pm:

One of the Klingon ships that appears is a Klingon D-7 Battle Cruiser (a homage maybe?)

Kira's old hairstyle returns! 'bout time!


By John A. Lang on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 10:05 pm:

GRR.."OBSERVATIONS" :(


By John A. Lang on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 10:10 pm:

GREAT MOMENT: DS9 vs. the Klingon ships VERY COOL!


By Thande on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 7:10 am:

I guess they just don't build them birds-of-prey like they used to. (Or possibly they build photon torpedoes a LOT better than they used to, if you're an optimist. :))

Throughout the Star Trek saga we see several times a bird-of-prey get hit with a photon torpedo. In chronological order:

Star Trek 3 An UNSHIELDED bird-of-prey gets hit with TWO photon torpedoes and absolutely nothing happens.

Star Trek 6 An UNSHIELDED bird-of-prey gets hit with ONE photon torpedo and the front blows up. It takes several more to completely destroy the ship.

Star Trek Generations An UNSHIELDED bird-of-prey is hit with ONE photon torpedo and it blows up instantly.

This episode Several SHIELDED birds-of-prey get hit with ONE photon torpedo each and INSTANTLY BLOW UP!!

So the birds-of-prey seem to get progressively weaker, or photon torpedoes get progressively more powerful, over time.

At least this is one thing where the Enterprise writers keep to continuity: in The Expanse, set before any of these instances, an early model bird-of-prey is hit with several photon torpedoes and nothing happens!


By Callie on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 6:55 am:

I only became aware of this during this particular episode, although it’s been going on for ages: the Federation are very rude people! Whenever anyone from the command staff of DS9 talks to Dukat, whether over subspace or in person, Dukat very politely addresses them by their title, sometimes tacking on their surname as well, e.g. he calls Sisko either “Captain” or “Captain Sisko.” However, they all call him Dukat, not Gul Dukat nor even just Gul! Kira I can understand but does the Federation teach its officers to address alien VIPs in such a rude way?!


By Merat on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 3:13 pm:

This isn't a nit, but a nice touch. Odo tells Garak that the mug and the coffee are part of him, then sees Morn getting hasseled by Drex, and heads over. Whats great is that they remembered not to have the OdoMug on the table. It disappears. :)


By LUIGI NOVI on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 3:54 pm:

Bet Janeway wishes SHE had a hand like that. :)


By Mike Nuss on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 7:26 pm:

ST VI established that Klingon blood is pink.

I thought that was just to make the censors happy.

At the end of the episode, for a few seconds Gowron's left eye is suddenly looking straight down while his right eye is looking straight ahead. Lazy eye?


By Brian FitzGerald on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 7:58 am:

TNG/DS9/VOY has never followed that continuiity from ST VI. I've heard it was to make the censors happy I"ve also heard it was a kind of visual reference to the huge biological diference between humans and Klingons to underscore why McCoy couldn't save Gorkon.


By Matt Pesti on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 6:06 pm:

Birds of Prey are small ships, with small crews, that cover a century of different ship classes. It is likely those ships were not part of the Klingon Defense Force proper, but rather ships belonging to Great Families and Houses that went to war in truage to the Klingon High Council. I mean, if Duras has a ship, and Kurn had a lot of ships, so can other families.

I saw this episode the other day, maybe it's all this being spoiled by Buffy and the Matrix, but the fighting looked crude, and highly choreographed. Kira's knife fight in particular.


By Kinggodzillak on Saturday, July 02, 2005 - 6:25 am:

The security guard that escorts Dukat to the bridge of the Defiant can also be seen in the very next scene...which is the kanar scene, set back on DS9. He gets up and leaves as Garak sits down.


By Rodney Hrvatin on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 2:53 am:

Luigi Novi-On the Defiant for the first time, Worf says he’s never been on a Federation ship with a cloaking device before, and that it was an odd feeling. Did he forget how the crew hooked up the Pegasus’ phase-cloak at the end of The Pegasus(TNG)?

No. It's just that the Enterprise would hardly be called a cloaked ship. Sure it was cloaked for all of 20 seconds that would hardly allow time for everyone to go "Hmmm, so THIS is what it feels like to be on a cloaked ship. Wow. Cool!" I think it was just a bad choice of words, can't for the life of me think of a more appropriate choice of words....


By inblackestnight on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 3:24 pm:

I could have sworn that somebody mentioned how strange it was that Odo was fighting with his fists, either here or in the book, but maybe I'm thinking of another episode. Although I don't recall, I've been informed that Odo mentioned in Adversary having a distaste for morphing weapons from his being; however, does he even need to dodge physical attacks at all? Since we know that Changelings can alter their mass, perhaps Odo increased mass in his arms. Ignoring the tremendous fighting advantages he possesses is down-right dumb in my opinion.


By dotter31 on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 8:20 pm:

Luigi Novi: When the Defiant arrives to see the Cardassian ship under attack by the Klingons, Bashir comments that after "two decades of peace" with the Klingons, it all comes down to this. Two decades? Didn’t ST VIimply that the Khitomer Accords, which occurred 79 years prior to this episode, began the age of peace between the Federation and the Klingons? So it took 59 years for the Federation and the Klingons to come up with a treaty?

Could be wrong, but I had thought that Bashir was talking about the alliance with the Klingons, not just the peace treaty signed at Khitomer. We know from Yesterday's Enterprise that the Enterprise-C's efforts led to further improved relations with the Klingons(perhaps a treaty of alliance?) Perhaps the Federation had been allied with the Klingons for twenty years, and at peace since Khitomer?

John A Lang: This episode marks the first appearance of the new opening with the improved theme.

I liked the original version of the theme better,(Didn't that version win an emmy?) though this version is OK. The visuals during the title sequence are better here, though.


By inblackestnight on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 10:28 am:

Throughout most of the episode it seems that Odo's make-up is incomplete; his forehead ridgelines are visable. I'm not sure but I don't recall ever seeing Odo with an unsmoothed forehead anywhere else. This may have been mentioned before but it was nice of the Klingons to give DS9 time to prepare for them.


By Mr Crusher on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 4:26 pm:

I just watched this episode and didn't notice any differance in Odo's make up.


By Polls Voice on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 11:03 am:

I like how obrian is thanking the dominion for motivating the upgrades, but those upgrades wouldn't be needed (at that moment) if there was no dominion to begin with...

That's like thanking a criminal for robbing a store so when the police capture the robber, it looks as if the police are doing their job.


By David (Guardian) on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 10:50 pm:

This episode premiered when I was 7, and I wasn't allowed to stay up and watch it, so my mom recorded it for me (we must not have known how to work the VCR timer yet), and even edited out some of the commercial breaks. Unfortunately, she must've fallen asleep during a commercial break, because the tape omitted every scene between Sisko ordering the Defiant to defend Dukat's ship and Bashir's pep talk to his staff! It took me years to realize that I had an incomplete copy.


By Brian FitzGerald on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 12:29 pm:

Star Trek 3 An UNSHIELDED bird-of-prey gets hit with TWO photon torpedoes and absolutely nothing happens.

Star Trek 6 An UNSHIELDED bird-of-prey gets hit with ONE photon torpedo and the front blows up. It takes several more to completely destroy the ship.

Star Trek Generations An UNSHIELDED bird-of-prey is hit with ONE photon torpedo and it blows up instantly.

This episode Several SHIELDED birds-of-prey get hit with ONE photon torpedo each and INSTANTLY BLOW UP!!

So the birds-of-prey seem to get progressively weaker, or photon torpedoes get progressively more powerful, over time.


Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Look at modern warfare. We've had armored vehicles, tanks, on the battlefield since WWI. When it first appeared you were having to use things like molatov cocktails and sticky bombs. Armor has gotten a lot better since than, but so have our ways to pierce it. Now we have precision guided munitions that can pierce through most forms of armor. We have those "bunker busters" that can destroy whole armored underground bunkers in one shot.

If your enemies are using energy shields to protect their ships it makes sense that you would want to try to improve your photon torpedoes to punch through the shields more better. Of course the Klingons would have done the same to their torpedoes but you'd figure that the shields on a massive station, with a big powerplant, would have stronger shields than those dinky little birds of prey.


By inblackestnight on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 1:34 pm:

Thande: Star Trek 6 An UNSHIELDED bird-of-prey gets hit with ONE photon torpedo and the front blows up. It takes several more to completely destroy the ship.
No visible damage is done to the BoP with the first torpedo, unless you count the ship shaking and the cloak shutting off.

Callie: However, they all call him Dukat, not Gul Dukat nor even just Gul!
Well, Dukat does change titles several times throughout the series. On occasion, perhaps they didn't know what to call him, that would be allowed on television anyway.


By Josh M on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 12:20 pm:


quote:

inblackestnight: No visible damage is done to the BoP with the first torpedo, unless you count the ship shaking and the cloak shutting off.




Though the bridge blows up real good.


By John A. Lang (Johnalang) on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 2:52 pm:

At one point Worf says "I've never been on a Federation Ship with a cloak before" (or something like that)

How about "The Pegasus" ?

Granted, it was a Phase Cloak...but it also had a Cloaking Device to make it invisible.


By Cybermortis on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 4:30 pm:

>>>By Thande on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 7:10 am:

I guess they just don't build them birds-of-prey like they used to. (Or possibly they build photon torpedoes a LOT better than they used to, if you're an optimist. :-))

Throughout the Star Trek saga we see several times a bird-of-prey get hit with a photon torpedo. In chronological order:

Star Trek 3 An UNSHIELDED bird-of-prey gets hit with TWO photon torpedoes and absolutely nothing happens.

Star Trek 6 An UNSHIELDED bird-of-prey gets hit with ONE photon torpedo and the front blows up. It takes several more to completely destroy the ship.

Star Trek Generations An UNSHIELDED bird-of-prey is hit with ONE photon torpedo and it blows up instantly.

This episode Several SHIELDED birds-of-prey get hit with ONE photon torpedo each and INSTANTLY BLOW UP!!

So the birds-of-prey seem to get progressively weaker, or photon torpedoes get progressively more powerful, over time. <<<

It is easy to forget but there are two main types of the Bird of Prey. The B'rel class is a small ship with a crew of around 12, this is the type of BoP seen in ST III and IV. The other type is the K'vort class, which is far larger in size and was introduced in TNG, but is of exactly the same design (Not a great surprise, as its the same model). The smaller ship is not going to have shields as strong as its bigger brother.

From what I can tell the only way to tell the two apart on screen, without someone saying what the class is, is by the position of the wings. The B'rel seems to attack and/or fly with its wings lowered, while the K'vort class maintains its wings in the raised position.


OK, we have Klingon warriors storming ops and the command crew fights them hand to hand and wins...Now Dax has shown she knows how to use a Bat'leth and she has seven lifetimes of experience to fall back on, so that's not a problem. Kira, well she fought against the Cardassians most of her life, she's an experienced fighter so again no problem. Worf's fighting abilities are of course without question, and O'Brian gets thumped - hardly surprising as he's an engineer...but SISKO!? Where did Sisko get the skills to fight off rampaging Klingons? I know he did wrestling at some point but it stretches credibility that he'd be so good he can not only fight off several opponents stronger than he is, but he's also so good he can pick up a Bat'leth and fight a Klingon warrior on equal terms with it.
I'm starting to think that these 'Baseball' games he plays on the holodeck are just an excuse to allow him to walk into the Holodeck three times a week with a baseball bat without anyone asking what he's really up to....


By Jewish Klingon on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 10:29 pm:

geez, what is a Jewish Klingon?

----------------------------------

and wasn't this the Kirk mentioned episode?


By ScottN on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 9:05 am:

They use a Mekleth to do the Bris.


By Cybermortis on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 9:44 am:

>>>By ScottN on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 9:05 am:

They use a Mekleth to do the Bris.<<<

Worf uses a Mekleth, everyone else uses a Bat'leth.


By Merat on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 12:16 pm:

"Where did Sisko get the skills to fight off rampaging Klingons?"

Starfleet Academy unarmed and handheld weapons training? Also, didn't we get some boxing mentions in his past?


By LUIGI NOVI (Lnovi) on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 12:57 pm:

I don't know if Kirk was mentioned in this ep, but I know he was mentioned in The Sword of Kahless.


By Jewish Klingon on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 4:51 pm:

that was it! thanks Luigi!


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 10:36 pm:

Funny how things turned out.

The motivation for the Klingons attacking Cardassia is because of the change in goverment there. They were worried that it was caused by the Founders, in which would allow the Dominion to establish a presence in the Alpha Quadrant.

So what happens, the Klingon invasion weakens the Cardassian Empire to a point that Dukat, in order to make Cardassia strong again, negotiates a deal with the Dominion. Cardassia becomes a member, the Dominion sends ships and troops there, and establishes a presence in the Alpha Quadrant!

So, by invading Cardassia, the Klingons ended up causing the very event they were trying to prevent!

I know the Martok changling was whispering in Gowron's ear, hoping to start a war between the Federation and the Klingons, but still, in the, end, things did work out for the Dominion!


By David on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 1:13 am:

Regarding Organians:

Recall that the Organians imposed the peace treaty (effectively an armistice of indefinite length) in Captain Kirk's time, but indicated that when the time was right, the Federation and the Klingon Empire would not need the interference by the Organians to put aside their differences.

The novelization of Star Trek VI in fact has a line about the Organians, and how they've been "ignoring all communications". This indicates that the Organians knew the time was right to stop enforcing their imposed peace treaty, and the original Khitomer Accords were signed not long after.

I don't know what current Trek canon is, but I was under the distinct impression that the treaty of alliance between the Federation and the Klingon Empire was only about twenty years old, given events in 'Yesterday's Enterprise' which indicated that a major focal point in history was that a Federation vessel would honorably join the Klingons in battle even against insurmountable odds.

This, I have to assume, was what broke a logjam and paved the way for people like Riva, Curzon Dax and Sarek to negotiate the treaty of alliance.

On the Dominion:

Gowron fell right into the Founders' trap very neatly. Had he left well enough alone the Cardassian Union would have recovered from the crisis posed by the dissolution of the Obsidian Order and probably made a serious effort to honor the terms of the peace treaties it negotiated with the Federation and with Bajor.

But alas.


By Andre Reichenbacher (Amr) on Tuesday, March 20, 2012 - 9:09 pm:

Trek-related Top Ten List from 1997:

Top Ten Gimmicky Voyager Characters:

Worf, who joins the show just as the crew goes to war with the Klingon Empire.

I forget the other nine. This one is the only one that really matters, anyway.

So, why was this done? Was it that bastard Behr or that other bastard Wolfe? Or was it those two SOB's Berman or Piller that was responsible for this decision? I dont get it, I really dont.

I would not have done this. And If I was Michael Dorn, I would have turned this down. For no other reason than we would not have had to deal with the stupid jokes made in the three TNG films about why Worf is aboard the Enterprise when he really ought to be aboard DS9 or aboard the Defiant on a mission in the GQ!

You know what I'm saying? Does any of this make any sense?

Oh well, like it even matters anymore what the fans think, the Bermaga showed a long time ago that what the fans want doesn't mean jack squat!

In short, I hated that Worf joined DS9. And I always will!


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Tuesday, March 20, 2012 - 10:56 pm:

It was the suits from Paramount that insisted the addition of Worf. They felt the ratings weren't high enough.

By this point, Berman and Piller had very little involvement with the day-to-day running of DS9, rather Behr and Wolfe saw to that. Braga had no connection to DS9 at all.


By Andre Reichenbacher (Amr) on Tuesday, March 20, 2012 - 11:26 pm:

OK, that answers that. But why did Dorn go along with it? Why didn't he turn the same character/different show down?

I would have!


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Wednesday, March 21, 2012 - 10:32 pm:

But why did Dorn go along with it?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


By Andre Reichenbacher (Amr) on Friday, November 30, 2012 - 11:18 am:

Yeah, probably cuz Paramount had a dumptruck full of money driven up to Dorn's house, you know, like what Michael Eisner did with Jim Henson in 1989. Simple as that.

Poor Jim Henson. He died of something that could have totally been prevented, but he had a lifelong phobia of hospitals so he delayed getting medical care for his pneumonia. And as it was widely known, before his death he was ready to sell his creation to Disney anyway, so Eisner's rather large monetary incentive was what sealed the deal.

I wonder how much Paramount paid Dorn to convince him to continue as Worf after TNG. As we all know, he was a completely different character on DS9 and whenever he appeared in a TNG movie it was like "What is he doing here, shouldn't he be aboard the station or on the Defiant in the GQ?" You know, that kind of nonsense!

Just my opinions on this matter, nothing more.


By John A. Lang (Johnalang) on Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 8:39 pm:

Why did the Klingons attack DS9 after it was determined that the Cardassian Council were not Changelings?

I mean...that was the whole point of the attack on Cardassia....because the Klingins thought Changelings took over

I guess "Glory" is better than "Honor"


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