By Benn on Monday, January 07, 2002 - 06:17 pm:

The four issues I have are some of the most excruciatingly tedious comics I've read since Bill Mantlo wrote the Howard the Duck magazine. Ughh.

The entire point of the Just Imagine series was in my opinion, fundamentally flawed.

These were supposedly how the characters would've been conceived if Stan created them. But there's a couple of problems with this. First, there's no way for Stan, or the respective illustrators on each book, to not be influenced by the familiar incarnations of them. In fact, it doesn't even look as if many of them even tried to. Jim Lee didn't even bother trying to come up with a visual for Wonder Woman different from her familiar form. It was essentially the same, but for a different color scheme, and superficial costume differences. The Superman version had a cape, red and blue costume, and the biggest visual difference was that he was blonde with a crewcut. Why did the Stan Lee Green Lantern HAVE TO HAVE a lantern insignia in his chest so similar to the original one?

The other problem is that, when Stan gives us these new versions of "Batman" or "Superman", what are we to understand were the parameters for creating each one so that they would have the same name as their "real" avatars, but be "different"? Perhaps Stan was told (or chose) to start off with the name, and be inspired by the name to create a character. But we don't know if that's how each creator of the original versions went about it (though I'm sure comic historians and trivia experts like Peter Sanderson or Mark Evanier might have anecdotes to that effect). For all we know, the name of the character was the last and least important thing to the originals' creators, so if Stan was indeed starting off with the name, then he wasn't following the same pattern or creation path as the original creators, "albeit with his Stan Lee Marvel angst" angle, which is what the series' publicity seemed to imply.

In this way, Just Imagine didn't seem much different from the DC Tangent line, in which DC published a series of oneshot books a few years ago set in another universe, some of which had the same names as some familiar DC characters, like Flash and Wonder Woman.

By the way, Keith, why haven't you posted your own answers to the questions you've asked on these boards? You me and Benn seem to be the only three regular posters to NitC that like comics enougth to post here. Let's hear your likes and disklikes.

In truth, the whole idea behind the Stan Lee's Just Imagine line is marketing. What would have the fanboys salivating more than the thought of Stan "The Man" Lee writing for the "Distinguished Competition"? And to up the ante, how about if we present Stan Lee's version of our core characters? There's a certain amount of cynicism involved in it. Stan is well past his prime as a writer, I think. The four Just Imagines I've read confirm it. (And in my defense, I bought only out of curiousity. I had no high expectations for these books.)

I expect Keith's responses in the morning. I apologize for hijacking the board, KAM.

Why did the Stan Lee Green Lantern HAVE TO HAVE a lantern insignia in his chest so similar to the original one?
By original do you mean Alan Scott or Hal Jordon?

Green Lantern started with a drawing brought in by Martin Nodell. The name was chosen later. So in that case the name did come after creation.

Seigal wrote a story featuring a villainous character named Superman prior to using it for the hero of his & Shuster's comic strip character. IIRC it was printed in a self-published zine. (And, I believe, reprinted a few years ago in some kind of magazine about comic history.)

I believe the latest Just Imagine is JLA. I'm fairly certain that name wasn't in mind when DC decided to update the concept of the Justice Society of America. ;-)

By the way, Keith, why haven't you posted your own answers to the questions you've asked on these boards?
Partly I wanted to see if anyone was interested in posting on such boards, partly because of time & partly just to look up the proper names of my choices for Weirdest Comics.

OK, I checked. The main difference between Scott & Jordon's Lantern insignia is that Scott's was surrounded by a yellow circle & Jordon's was surrounded by a white circle.

From what I can tell Bob Kane's inspiration for the look of Batman was some batlike wings drawn by Leonardo daVinci, this probably triggered memories of the villain from a silent movie called The Bat. So it appears that with Batman (or The Bat-Man, as it originally appeared) the name came later.

Also from what I've been able to dig up The Flash probably started with the name. Apparently Flash Comics was meant to be an anthology title and Gardner Fox used the name for one of the heroes he created for it. (Hawkman was the other.)

Yeah, Da Vinci's flying machine. It never worked, though. And the Joker's look was inspired by the look of Conrad Veidt from the movie The Man Who Laughs.

Why would they do this anyways? Every Stan Lee Orgin story involves some kind of radiation or mutation. I mean, it's a no brainer.

Superman: "The Radiation from the explosion of Krypton, I'm a Superman. It also killed my parents."

Batman: "The Infrared Radiation given off by the gun of my parent's murderer, I'm grim and determined."

Wonder Woman: "Great Hera, I was bitten by a Radioactive Kryptonian and given their power, to a lesser degree. Opps, Killed Hipoyltia"

Flash: "Ahh, I'm a really fast mutie freak! Opps, caused my parents to die."

Green Arrow: "That radioactive pot, I should have known better."

Green Lantren: "Argghhh. Aben Ser zapped me with Green Radiation, killing my parents in the process."

Aquaman: "Arggg, I was bitten by a radioactive fish. The Fish then proceeded to kill my parents."

El Doroado: "Radiation from the magical temples of my people has given me the ability to replicate dolls and teleport rapido. My parents also died in those temples."

Uh, Iron Man's origin didn't involve radiation. Nor did Thor's. Or Ant-Man's/Giant Man's or the Wasp's. For that matter, Stan's Batman did not use radiation. Lee's Bruce Wayne's powers derived from his costume. So did Stan Lee's Superman, come to think of it - well, in part anyway. I think the difference between Superman's homeworld and Earth also provided an explanation for Supes' powers. And IIRC, when John Byrne revamped the Man of Steel in the mini-series of the same name in the mid-Eighties, radiation was given as a source of Superman's powers.

As for "Why would they do this anyway?"... C'mon Matt! That's too obvious! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ It's a great selling point - "The creator of the Marvel Universe - DC's arch-rival - does some writing for the 'Distinguished Competition'." It really shouldn't take too much thought to suss this one out.

On the other hand it might have been interesting to see Stan's characters as done by the DC creators.

Bob Kane Imagines Spider-Man
Peter "A spider? It's an omen! I shall become Spider-Man and trap villains in my web!"

Jerry Seigal & Joe Shuster Imagine Thor
"Thor, strange visitor from Asgard..."

William Moulton Marsten Imagines She-Hulk
"You too can crush a car with your bare hands if you just recognize your power as women."

LOL, Matt!!

KAM: William Moulton Marsten Imagines She-Hulk: "You too can crush a car with your bare hands
Luigi Novi: Thank god you said 'bare hands.' I thought you were going to say something else.

Bare feet? Bare paws? Bare claws? Perhaps a Hamburger Pattie joke?

The creator of the Doom Patrol (Stan Drake?) Imagining the Uncanny X-Men? (The Doom Patrol were a group of freaks who were led by a man in a wheelchair and fought the Brotherhood of Evil.)

The creator of The Challengers Of The Unknown Imagining the Fantastic Four... oh, wait a minute... (Kirby created the Challs.)

Actually prior to the entire Death And Life Of
Superman mega storyline DC did come up with a
story similiar to the Fantastic Four origin,with
the difference that the result had a tragic ending.
This helped to introduce Dr.Hank Henshaw(what is it with alliteration in comics any way?Hank Henshaw,Reed Richards,Peter Parker,Lois Lane,etc.)
who became the villian Cyborg.
Henshaw's storyline seems to have been concluded
in the Marvel/DC crossover where Superman joins the FF to fight Galactus.

Yeah, but the Challengers debuted, in what, the late Fifties? They appeared just before the Fantastic Four made their first appearance. Jack Kirby, curiously enough, was the architect behind both titles. Even more intriguing (or damning) is the fact that the FF did not originally wear their familiar blue and black costumes. Instead they wore these purple jumpsuits that were pretty similar to the ones the Challs wore.

At any rate, that's what I think KAM is talking about.

Yep. The Challs first appeared in Showcase Comics in the '50s and shortly thereafter got their own book.

I've listed some of the Chall/FF similarities on the Misc. DC Nits board. (Not that they're nits, but I didn't know where else to stick them.)