Luigi Novi: Or a pup tent.
And Brian, I had no idea. You dawg. (Btw, any chance that that pretty brunette on your website does this too?
) Taken from Miami Herald while looking up Dave Barry. They got it from the LA Times.
News Wire
Published: Sunday, January 23, 2005
Lawyer seeks 'breast equality'
Topless sunbathing is a crime for women in California, but lawmakers are being asked to change that.
Los Angeles Times
SACRAMENTO, Calif. - As a Ventura County public defender, Liana Johnsson has handled many life-changing cases, but her biggest public crusade these days has been going topless.
For months, Johnsson has been fighting to allow topless women at California beaches and parks, and now the issue has made its way to the Capitol. A group of lawyers, at Johnsson's request, has asked the Legislature to make topless sunbathing legal, saying the ban is the last criminal sanction that treats women differently than men.
The new movement has an urgency behind it. Because of a December court ruling, Johnsson and other attorneys contend that women convicted of indecent exposure could find themselves listed as sex offenders under Megan's Law, alongside rapists and child molesters.
"At some point, men's breasts became liberated and women's didn't," Johnsson said Friday. "This is the only thing left that men are legally allowed to do, and for women they have to register as a sex offender. The real issue is there should be equal protection under the law."
Although the office of California Attorney General Bill Lockyer said women should not be concerned about being listed as sex offenders, since California does not consider topless sunbathing "lewd conduct," lawmakers may soon be tackling the issue to remove any chance of misinterpretation by local prosecutors.
Johnsson - who wears a pink badge that reads, "I support breast equality" - also has produced a two-minute video featuring obese men with large breasts lounging without social or legal hassles on California beaches. Proof, she said, that the law is not applied equally to men and women, as required by the Constitution.
The lawyers group approved a resolution asking that the criminal codes forbidding topless sunbathing be removed. Lobbyists for the Conference of Delegates of California Bar Associations, said they expect a lawmaker to introduce the bill Johnsson seeks next week, although an author and details of the proposal have not been decided.
This is actually something that I know a bit about, being somewhat active in the nudist lifestyle myself. Apparently around the turn of the century bare chested men were considered an indecent sight in some places in the country, that has of course changed. In most of the rest of the civilized world women can go topfree (the prefered term for it by activists) on the beaches except for the USA. The main argument is the fact that breasts are not sexual organs (like the ••••• or the vagina) simply secondary sex characteristics like facial hair for men.
Hey I see no problem with legalizing being topfree. Its not like anyone would be traumatized by the sight of a bare breast, and there are some men on the beaches who should be wearing a bikini top due to their size anyhow depending on your definition of breasts.
But yeah The US does seem to be the only country with such outdated hang ups about the human body.
R: and there are some men on the beaches who should be wearing a bikini top due to their size
Luigi Novi: Or a pup tent.
And Brian, I had no idea. You dawg. (Btw, any chance that that pretty brunette on your website does this too? )
Hmmm. Interesting that ••••• gets red-dotted, yet vagina remains.
And whilst I agree with your main point, it's obviously never going to happen. Witness CBS being fined an obscene amount of money for the Janet fiasco.
Board owners (in this case the Chief) have to enter a dictionary of forbidden words into the censor's database. If the owner does not consider all the variants on a particular word, or misses one word altogether, the censor will pass words through. To deal with the first problem, many censor programs will aloow you to opt for censoring all words containing the words in the dictionary as a root. On one board Iused to frequent, this resulted in censoring the word "farther." Everyone had to get used to typing the word "further," instead.
Bottom line: If you think a word will (or should) be red-dotted, don't use it.
And Brian, I had no idea. You dawg. (Btw, any chance that that pretty brunette on your website does this too?
No not that one. However I have gotten my GF and her best friend (who are both pretty brunettes) to go skinny dip and spend time at a nudist resort, lots of fun. Even sang some nude Karioke.
Also wanted to mention that I know of one place here in the US where topfreedom is legal and common on the beach. South Beach, Miami, apparently it was accepted to keep the European tourist dollers comming in. I've got some links that some fellow nudists have given me for websites about nudity and topfreedom.
This one is a advocracy site.
http://www.tera.ca/
This one is where women share places where it is ok, either legally or unoffically accepted.
http://www.topfreedom.com/
Brian Fitzgerald: Even sang some nude Karioke.
Luigi Novi: Wow, and I'll bet everyone here hated kareoke before...
(Just kidding, Brian. )
like the ••••• or the vagina
Huh? Why is one auto-censored and the other not?
One is more often used as an insult than the other.
The one is considered more dangerous to see or talk about than the other maybe? Not trying to start anything but it does seem like guys have trouble talking about the equipment of guys than women have talking about their equipment. At least among the people I'm around.
Who uses the word "peni$" as an insult?
It was used in the movie ET as such. Eliot called his brother "Pen1s breath."
Yes, but it's not a commonly-used word for insults. That example is the only one I can think of, and it was used by a little kid. In general, people use the d-word. The p-word isn't even profane, any more than "vagina" is.
Back in 1988, Saturday Night Live caught a lot of flack for a sketch in which the word "pen1s" was uttered 43 times. To quote the late Waylon Jennings, "The pen1s is mightier than the sword." (No, I really don't know what relevance that has to the conversation. I'm just quoting him.)
You could always ask the Chief what his rationale is.
Remember, showing breats on broadcast TV is one of the most mortifying things you can do in this country. Supposedly even more mortifying than throwing a gay or transgendered youth out into the streets.
:|
Who uses the word "peni$" as an insult? - Luigi Novi
See Benn's post above for at least one example.
That example is the only one I can think of, and it was used by a little kid. - Luigi Novi
The fact that that's the only one you can think of doesn't mean it's not used... in any case, the fact that there even is an example proves that it is used as an insult.
Secondly, I didn't realize these boards served only adults.
In general, people use the d-word. - Luigi Novi
And how does the fact that a word is used more often negate that a different word that could also be used as an insult?
The p-word isn't even profane, any more than "vagina" is. - Luigi Novi
Neither are a lot of other words filtered by the Nitcentral censor... p***y has its place as a legitimate word... or b***h. And don't forget that stupid was censored for a long time, too.
Well...women rarely insult each other by saying they have small vaginas, whereas...
My point, Darth, was that "peni$" is not really used as an insult any more than "vagina" is, and should be treated equally. Benn's example was a rare abberation that is not a common part of the lexicon.
And I still contend that p***s is used as an insult MUCH more often than vagina. Just like your experience is valid for you, mine is valid for me. And judging by the fact that it's on the list of censored words, Phil agrees.
So nyeh!
I don't recall saying anything about an "experience," but since you bring it up, you're saying that in your experience, the word peni$ is used as frequently as the d-word?
And I've never heard anyone use the word "vagina" as an insult. Typically pepole use the p-word or the c-word.
And we're off topic...
I don't recall saying anything about an "experience," - Luigi Novi
"That example is the only one I can think of..." Forgive me, but that sounds like you're speaking from your experience.
...you're saying that in your experience, the word peni$ is used as frequently as the d-word? - Luigi Novi
sigh
You asked, "Who uses the word "peni$" as an insult?"
Benn provided one example.
You replied that that was the only example you can think of... and that the d-word is more common.
I said the very fact that an example exists is proof that the word can and is used as an insult. And that the fact that another word is more commonly used doesn't negate the fact that p***s can be used as an insult.
Nowhere do I even suggest that p***s is used as an insult as much as the d-word.
And I've never heard anyone use the word "vagina" as an insult. - Luigi Novi
EXACTLY MY POINT!!!
You said "that "peni$" is not really used as an insult any more than "vagina" is, and should be treated equally." (emphasis mine)
I replied that in my experience, I have heard p***s used much more often than "vagina" as an insult.
If you have never heard "vagina" used as an insult, but you have heard p***s used as an insult, then the two terms are not exactly equal, are they? One can and is used as an insult, the other is not.
Incidentally, Stuart Smalley also uses p***s as an insult in Stuart Saves His Family.
Darth Sarcasm: I said the very fact that an example exists is proof that the word can and is used as an insult.
Luigi Novi: I am not interested in whether it "can" be used as an insult. For the purposes of discussing the merit of censoring peni$ and not vagina, I argued that in general, it is not generally used in the language as an insult. I can call someone a fire hyrdrant in order to demonstrate that fire hydrant "can" be used as an insult. But that wasn't my point.
rolls eyes
Whatever it takes to be right, huh?
Well, I'm not going to let you backpedal on this one. You asked, "Who uses the word "peni$" as an insult?" Benn provided you with one example. In my last post, I provided you with another example. My point stands: the word can and is used as an insult!
Your "fire hydrant" analogy is specious and insulting as hell. I didn't arbitrarily assign a derogatory or insulting meaning to the word p***s. The insulted meaning exists by its usage in regular American lexicon.
You, my "friend," are a PENI$!!!
But, hey... don't take offense... it's not an insult.
I expect my last post to be moved to the Dump for obvious reasons... unless the Moderator decides that it's clearly not an insult. But I'll repeat the pertinent portion of my post and offer the group my apologies...
rolls eyes
Whatever it takes to be right, huh?
Well, I'm not going to let you backpedal on this one. You asked, "Who uses the word "peni$" as an insult?" Benn provided you with one example. In my last post, I provided you with another example. My point stands: the word can and is used as an insult!
Your "fire hydrant" analogy is specious and insulting as hell. I didn't arbitrarily assign a derogatory or insulting meaning to the word p***s. The insulted meaning exists by its usage in regular American lexicon.
Um I work around mechanics and sometimes the pe word is used as a good natured insult/joke between them. Usually as in P--breath/p----nose etc... Just to interject some examples.
Darth, Luigi, does it *REALLY* matter who said what here?
Let's let it be.
I admit that the debate isn't one of very much consequence, especially in light of the fact that so many of us bypass the censor, anyway.
With that said... I think that some of Luigi's tactics: Arguing against a point that was never made so that it appears that I made one position when I, in fact, stated no such thing... or backpedalling on his original statement (not to be confused with correcting his original statement) so that it appears that I am arguing a ridiculous notion or arguing for the sake of arguing... I think that matters very much.
And as long as someone resorts to those tactics, then it's only fair for me to be entitled to respond to those distortions.
Darth Sarcasm: Whatever it takes to be right, huh?
Luigi Novi: Is that a question or a statement of intent?
Darth Sarcasm: Well, I'm not going to let you backpedal on this one. You asked, "Who uses the word "peni$" as an insult?" Benn provided you with one example. In my last post, I provided you with another example. My point stands: the word can and is used as an insult!
Luigi Novi: Not commonly.
Darth Sarcasm: Your "fire hydrant" analogy is specious and insulting as hell. I didn't arbitrarily assign a derogatory or insulting meaning to the word p***s. The insulted meaning exists by its usage in regular American lexicon.
Luigi Novi: One that isn’t common.
Darth Sarcasm: You, my "friend," are a PENI$!!!
Luigi Novi: Temper, temper, Darth.
Darth Sarcasm: With that said... I think that some of Luigi's tactics: Arguing against a point that was never made so that it appears that I made one position when I, in fact, stated no such thing... or backpedalling on his original statement (not to be confused with correcting his original statement) so that it appears that I am arguing a ridiculous notion or arguing for the sake of arguing... I think that matters very much.
Luigi Novi: And on which statement have I backpedaled?
Tonight on Crossfire!
Darth, Luigi, does it *REALLY* matter who said what here? - ScottN
C'mon, Scott, all this pen1s debate is just another cockfight between Darth and Luigi. 
(Runs and hides)
LOL!
"Free all breasts"?
Sure.
Just as long as it's
Marina Sirtis
Demi Moore
Angelina Jolie
Jamie Lee Curtis
Jenny McCarthy
Jeri Ryan
Jolene Blalock...or
Nicole Kidman
John, you forgot two of your HANDS OFF girls...
Grace Lee Whitney (when she was younger), and
Nichelle Nichols (also when she was younger).
Ah, yes. Thanks.
Glad to help
Amerika is a funny country. People are hung up on breasts and petty garbage like that, but some of those same people turn a blind eye to nmen women and children selling themselves on the streets for a meal. :{
.
My point stands: the word can and is used as an insult! - Darth Sarcasm
Not commonly. - Luigi Novi
Yes, the "it's not used commonly" response. We've heard this one already. And my response was that it wasn't common in your experience. Then again, if the whole debate is simply because you acknowledge that the word is used as an insult, but it just isn't that commonly used, then why the "fire hydrant" analogy? Because that only applies in a scenario in which you don't acknowledge the word is used as an insult at all.
And on which statement have I backpedaled? - Luigi Novi
"Who uses the word "peni$" as an insult?"
I will be presumptuous and address what I predict will be the inevitable response that "That's not a statement... it's a question!" To this I respond that the question not only implies your doubts that people use that word as an insult, a question is also an interrogative statement.
As for how common its usage is, I say again perhaps in your experience, the word hasn't been used much as an insult. But you do not hold the sum of all human knowledge, nor are you the sole gauge in measuring how frequently a word is used and for what purpose. In my experience (and others... try a couple of statements in Google to see what I mean), the word is used frequently enough as an insult. You (no matter how much you try) do not and cannot invalidate my experience.
When I responded at 5:35 on January 26 to j's question about why one word is censored and the other wasn't, I gave what I believed to be the reason BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE!!! Your experience is different? Fine. Then you say, "I haven't ever heard it used that way" or "I haven't found it's usage as an insult to be all that common." You don't say, "It isn't common" or any example someone provides is "an aberration." You don't act like the authority. You do not try to invalidate another person's experience just because your experience is different.
And in this whole debate there's one thing you seem to forget or ignore... Phil (or whoever established the words to be censored) must have had a reason to censor that word and not the other. If not because it may be used as an insult... then why?
Yes, Darth, our individual experiences are “incomplete.” And in no way was I attempting to either express “authority” over others or invalidate those of others, or presume to be the ultimate gauge or sum of human knowledge. But one reference that I use in making that statement is what I see on TV and in movies (not a very good factual reference, but fairly reflective of cultural norms), and aside from that one exception from 22 years ago that Benn cited, and the two others you and R mentioned, it does not appear (to me) to be a word used commonly as an insult. People instead tend to use “d***”, “d***head”, “schmuck,” or “dork.” My point in mentioning this is to question the criteria by which one word is censored and other isn’t.
Darth Sarcasm: Then again, if the whole debate is simply because you acknowledge that the word is used as an insult, but it just isn't that commonly used, then why the "fire hydrant" analogy? Because that only applies in a scenario in which you don't acknowledge the word is used as an insult at all.
Luigi Novi: I was responding to the statement that the word in question “can” be used as an insult by pointing out that I never said anything about whether it “can” be used as one. Only whether it is used commonly enough as one to explain why it would be censored but the word “vagina” not. We can dispense with the
Luigi Novi: And on which statement have I backpedaled?
Darth Sarcasm: "Who uses the word "peni$" as an insult?"
I will be presumptuous and address what I predict will be the inevitable response that "That's not a statement... it's a question!"
Luigi Novi: Keep your day job. That response doesn’t conform at all to the type of responses I tend to give in serious discussion, as I have little interest in splitting hairs over whether the statement in question is an imperative, declarative, or interrogative. I wanted to know which previous statement of mine you thought I was contradicting. This wild, invented response of yours bears no consistency with the way I tend to discuss with others, and in light of your once again attacking me personally, is a greater indicator of your own state of mind than it is mine.
Darth Sarcasm: When I responded at 5:35 on January 26 to j's question about why one word is censored and the other wasn't, I gave what I believed to be the reason BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE!!! Your experience is different? Fine. Then you say, "I haven't ever heard it used that way" or "I haven't found it's usage as an insult to be all that common." You don't say, "It isn't common" or any example someone provides is "an aberration." You don't act like the authority. You do not try to invalidate another person's experience just because your experience is different.
Luigi Novi: So you went ballistic because of my wording? Despite the fact that we all at one time or another word our statements in ways that others misunderstand? If you’re going to presume, then rather than making up fictional hypothetical responses on my part, perhaps you could’ve been a bit more mature and restrained, and presumed here that the preferred wording you prescribe here is simply what I meant. I try as hard as I can to use all the proper qualifiers, modifiers, and most accurate words and wording I can, not only because it’s a good habit, IMO in a text medium, but also because people like Rene sometimes like to attack others with Straw Men if they don’t (and hell, even if they do). I would’ve expected better from you.
I also find it amusing that that hypothetical response you projected for me was essentially one of hair-splitting, but that that is precisely what you do here.
I dunno, maybe you think that “It isn’t common” simply isn’t the same thing as "I haven't ever heard it used that way" or "I haven't found it's usage as an insult to be all that common," or that one cannot be meant to understood as the other. But to me, it is.
At least in my experience.
Darth Sarcasm: And in this whole debate there's one thing you seem to forget or ignore... Phil (or whoever established the words to be censored) must have had a reason to censor that word and not the other.
Luigi Novi: Possibly. Not necessarily.
One reason for including peni$ in the list of restricted words may be because certain site-blocking internet filters people use might block out Nitcentral if that word were found here. I guess that doesn't answer the original question of why "peni$" should be included but not "vagina", though, does it?
I don't think it has anything to do with one being more insulting than the other. I don't know, but maybe going back to that internet filter idea, perhaps peni$, though it is the legitimate name for that sex organ, is used more often in a crude or pornographic context than vagina is?
Oh, and going back to the thread's topic, women's breasts should probably stay covered up as long as American men view them as sexually arousing. Otherwise no one would keep their eyes on the road, and we'd have a lot more car crashes near the beach.
A sensible solution would be to designate a few beaches totally nude, and the rest of the beaches people should cover up for aesthetic reasons. (E.g. in my city in the outdoor swimming pools, an area for nude sunbathing is roped off; in the normal area, people cover up.)
I'm not certain about the other coastal states, but here in New Jersey, the beaches are considered city property. And the cities can and often do pass decency laws/dress codes that are tougher than the state law.
The state law does not mention the state of dress at all, actually. It requires that the offender be flagrantly lewd and offensive where he knows (or should know) that it is open to the veiw of a minor or someone who would be alarmed and affronted. As far as I know, it is only enforced for lewd actions, such as public sex or masturbation.
There are three or four State Parks on the shoreline. These are state property and not part of any city. I believe that there are areas in those parks that are designated as nude beaches.
So you went ballistic because of my wording? - Luigi Novi
And here you go again...
Let's examine the exchange, yet again (though we really shouldn't have to do this since the exachange is right up there..."
Jan 26 - 04:28am
j wonders the word is censored by the filter while "vagina" isn't.
Jan 26 - 05:35pm
I suggested that perhaps the word was being censored because it's more commonly used as an insult than "vagina."
Jan 26 - 08:49pm
You asked who uses the word as an insult.
Jan 27 - 01:22am
Benn provided an example.
Jan 27 - 06:10am
You dismissed the example because it was not only the only usage you recall, but the use was by a kid. You add that other words are more commonly used.
Jan 27 - 12:36pm
I respond that the very fact that there is an example proves the word is used as an insult and that the fact that other words might be more common doesn't invalidate that.
Jan 27 - 01:50pm
You state that your "point" was that the word isn't used as an insult any more than "vagina." You add that Benn's example is "an aberration."
NOTE: So far the exchange has been fairly pleasant... no one has gone "ballistic" as yet.
Jan 27 - 03:35pm
I reply that I have found the word to be used much more often as an insult than "vagina." And I explain that this is based on my experience, which is just as valid as yours.
Jan 27 - 05:37pm
You begin to hair-split, claiming that you don't recall ever saying anything about an "experience." Then you distort my position by asking if I'm asserting that the word is used as frequently as the d-word. NOTE: At no point did I ever make any such assertion. Then you further distort my position by claiming you've never heard of anyone using "vagina" as an insult. NOTE: Again, I never made any such assertion. It's this type of behavior, not any wording on your part, that makes me go "ballistic."
Jan 28 - 12:34pm
I explain what I meant about our respective experiences. That while you did not use the word "experience," you were certainly speaking based on your experience. I then respond to your questions and assertions, denying that I ever said anything to even suggest the things you asserted. I then provide another cinematic example of the word being used as an insult.
Jan 28 - 03:17pm
You hair-split again, saying you're not interested in whether the word "can" be used as an insult. NOTE: You conveniently neglect that I also stated the word is used as an insult. You then make your insulting "fire hydrant" analogy. NOTE: None of the examples I or Benn provided were as ridiculous as your analogy. The examples we provided were from an enormously popular medium. One example was from one of the most popular films in history. Trying to make my claim that the word can be used as an insult analogous to using "fire hydrant" as an insult is in itself greatly insulting.
Jan 28 - 04:45
This is where I feel I go "ballistic," responding to your ridiculous analogy. And it all degenrates from there.
And in no way was I attempting to either express “authority” over others or invalidate those of others... - Luigi Novi
And yet when examples are provided or when I assert that in my experience it has been used as an insult, you continually dismiss these examples and claims.
But one reference that I use in making that statement is what I see on TV and in movies (not a very good factual reference, but fairly reflective of cultural norms)... - Luigi Novi
You said it... "one reference." There are other references, Luigi... like other people's experiences. I am reasonably certain the word "scumbag" is insulting... yet off the top of my head, I can't recall a single cinematic instance of its usage as such. I'm sure examples exist. "Turd" is another word I've heard used as an insult... yet aside from The Goonies, I can't recall a single cinematic reference. That doesn't mean the word's usage as an insult isn't common.
...as I have little interest in splitting hairs over whether the statement in question is an imperative, declarative, or interrogative. - Luigi Novi
Maybe so... but based on this exchange, you defintiely have an interest in hair-splitting in general.
I also find it amusing that that hypothetical response you projected for me was essentially one of hair-splitting, but that that is precisely what you do here. - Luigi Novi
Amusing, huh? See... and I find this whole exchange to be frustrating and sad. I'm sure lots of others agree.
I dunno, maybe you think that “It isn’t common” simply isn’t the same thing as "I haven't ever heard it used that way" or "I haven't found it's usage as an insult to be all that common," or that one cannot be meant to understood as the other. But to me, it is. - Luigi Novi
No it's this exchange:
"It isn't that common."
"I think it's certainly more commonly used as an insult as 'vagina,' based on my experience."
"I don't recall saying anything about any 'experience.' Besides, are you saying that it's used more commonly than the d-word? And I've never heard 'vagina' used as an insult.
Do you see the difference here?
Duke: Women's breasts should probably stay covered up as long as American men view them as sexually arousing. Otherwise no one would keep their eyes on the road, and we'd have a lot more car crashes near the beach.
Luigi Novi: Has this been shown to be the case in countries that allow topfreedom? (Or were you just joking with the smiley?)
I don't think that South Beach (right here in the good ole USA) or any of those other countries they have higher incidents of car crashes near the beach. In fact I've been told that in France it's not uncommon to see bare breasts on billboards on the side of the highway.
Duke, you have hit the nail on the head of most topfreedom/nudist arguments with the phrase Women's breasts should probably stay covered up as long as American men view them as sexually arousing.. Let me introduce you to my good friends the chicken and the egg. Will people in this country ever join the rest of the world so long as the law tells people in this country that women's breasts are obscene and must be covered for the sake of the public good. Or would it ahve to be legalizes so that it could be accepted as normal as the first dareing souls tried it and others slowly came around?
OH BTW - most of the other countries where topfreedom is legal have lower rates of sexual assult as well, which kinda blows the theory that men would be assulting women sexually if they saw bare breasts in public.
constanze - You have a good idea, the problem is that here in the US the number of offical public clothing optional beaches can be counted on one hand. The reason elected officals don't want to alienate the radical right but looking like they support "those kinds of people" by approving even small areas of public land for nude use.
Has this been shown to be the case in countries that allow topfreedom? - Luigi Novi
I would love to know where one might find statistics on cars crashed by American men alongside topfreedom beaches in a foreign country.
No, officer, I swear it isn't my fault the car crashed, I was just oggling these bare breasts over there, because, you see, as an American male, I'm not used to seeing them...
Ever hear of wooden fences that prevent non-nudists from oggling nudists beaches? Would also prevent all those car accidents... )
I don't know what "oggling" means... but if ever a word sounded like it should be censored, that'd be it.
I think Constanze means 'ogling', which means blatantly staring at what you shouldn't.
I know what she meant... note the smiley.
*Ahem* Yes, I knew that, I was being cleverly sarcastic. Honest.
Obviously she is referring to the open audio and video formats, "Ogg Vorbis" and "Ogg Theora".
Actually I was refering to men of other countries. I'd think that in countries like France they'd have lower rates of car crashes since over there it's harder to get a licence than here in the USA where you can get one knowing next to nothing about how to drive.
As for saying that American males are diferent than males from other nations and women should be punished for it is like me saying that Arab males are diferent than western males and women in those countries should have to keep covering from head to toe. Of course Saudi males would be distracted by a woman in jogging shorts or a bikini, he's never seen something like that in his nation, but after a few hours on a US beach he'd get acclimated. As someone who's seen several reluctant people agree to goto nudist resorts I can tell you that it often takes a very short time to get acclimated to total nudity, much less topfreedom.
I don't want to become "acclimated" to total nudity in public spaces, since I don't want to see it. Period. I'm not alone. Many other people don't want it either. I wouldn't want some dirty old man staring at my daughter. I would like to be able to walk down a beach without seeing men with erections. Don't say it doesn't happen, because it does. Especially now with Viagra and men having four hour erections. There's enough vulgarity today. We deserve some refuge from it.
Actually at the nude areas I have read about (I have never actually been but wouldn't mind or be bothered) if a man does become aroused he is to cover himself with a towel. And just because people are nude does not mean that they are automatically going to be acting in a lewd mannor.
Also a four hour erection is a not good side effect of the drug and not something to be proud of but to go to the emergency room for.
And we are not talking about nudity at the mall or the local mcdonalds we are talking about at the beach where for the most part some of the swimwear is almost naked anyhow so it becomes a sort of why bother other than some moral majority prude got the lawmakers to say that naked nipples on men are ok but not on women. ( I say that because the last time I went to the beach this girl had a top on that I swear only barely covered her nipples and not much else.)
Bandit Bowman
P'lor
Oh one other thign I forgot to mention last night about erections is that males sometimes get one for reasons other than sexual arousal.
I would like to be able to walk down a beach without seeing men with erections. Don't say it doesn't happen, because it does.
Nobody's talking about allowing total nudity everywhere. How about a section of the beach marked for nude recreation and the rest of it marked for clothed recreation. If you don't want to see it, don't go to that area. If you don't want your daughter nude, don't take her to that area.
Also don't talk to me like you know a dang thing about nude beaches and resorts, you have clearly never been to either. At a private nude errections are a raraty (and if they do happen you just be discreat until it passes, it's not like those things last all day.) And what are you talking about Viagra? Guys take Viagra before having sex so they can have an errection than, not before spending the day at the beach, nude or clothed. And walking around flaunting an errection, or engaging in other lewd behavior will get you kicked out of a private nudist resort real quick like.
In that last one I meant At a private nudist resort errections are a raraty
Luigi and Darth: Don't be pen1ses all your life.
One thing a bout this topless debate you guys are forgetting is only a minority of women are pretty. For every, um, Nicole Kidman, there are 10 Rosie O'Donnell's. If a girl is pretty whether she is wearing a bikini top or not I'm going to look.
And, yes, constance, I'll oggle a pretty woman in a bikini top as much as a bare breasted woman.
Well to chim in on Berry's I'll check a woman out evenif she is fully clothed as I have been checked out in return. It is just human nature.
And pretty is in the eye of the beholder Blue one of my favorite quotes From a friend of mine about women is "Big or Small I'll love em all".
Blue you are correct but the same does apply to men as well, have you taken a look at the bare chested men on the beach. Of course this is not about who we would like to check out and who we would like to cover. It's about a person's own choice to be comfortable.
Blue Berry; for every Nicole Kidman there's 10 Rosie O"Donnells? What about the reverse, for every Brad Pitt, there's a hundred Ed Asners.
Blue Berry: As if *that* was necessary!
Well, you're welcome to bite mine!
See, I can add a smiley after an insult too!