A not-so-short survey

Nitcentral's Bulletin Brash Reflections: The Kitchen Sink: Questions, Questions, Questions: A not-so-short survey
By Tom Vane on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 6:01 pm:

I see this sort of thing all the time on various other boards I hang around occasionally. So, I think it's high time someone did it here. Most of these questions are "minimal pairs," as they are called, and you have to reply whether you think the words in each pair rhyme. Since there are people here from all over the world, I'm very interested to see the responses.

First tell us where you grew up, and if you're not a native English speaker, where you learned to speak English.

1. don/dawn
2. hot/caught
3. sock/talk
4. dollar/taller
5. pin/pen
6. fill/feel
7. fell/fail
8. full/fool
9. horse/hoarse
10. card/cord
11. Mary/merry
12. merry/marry
13. wail/whale
14. do/dew
14. mirror/nearer
15. hurry/furry
16. horror/explorer
17. lad/bad
18. libel/bible
19. hear/hair
20. nose/knows
21. look/luck
22. hair/her
23. foot/boot
24. pain/pane
25. vein/vain
26. If you think "don" and "dawn" are different, which of those two words does "on" rhyme with?
27. If you think "don" and "dawn" are different, which of those two words does "gone" rhyme with?
28. If you think "hot" and "caught", etc. are different, which of the two vowels would you use for words such as "cloth," "lost," "cross," "long," and "off"?

That just about covers all the bases. The responses should be interesting.


By Tom Vane on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 6:09 pm:

Ah, geez, I just realized I forgot one of the most important minimal pairs! Don't forget this when you do the survey:

29. father/bother


By TomM on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 10:13 pm:

I grew up in northeastern New Jersey (the greater New York City area), but I attended a Catholic parochial school where the nuns were very concerned that we learn to speak properly.

The same: do/dew; mirror/nearer; hurry/furry; lad/bad*; libel/bible; nose/knows; pain/pane; vein/vane; father/bother


Very close but not exact: horse/hoarse (very slight -- almost imperceptible -- broadening of the |o| to suggest the "a"); wail/whale (the nuns actually used a feather to make sure we prononced the |h|)


Distinctly different: don/dawn; hot/caught; sock/talk; dollar/taller; pin/pen; fill/feel; fell/fail; full/fool; card/cord; Mary/merry/marry; horror/explorer; lad/bad*; hear/hair/her; look/luck; foot/boot

* The nuns insisted that "bad" was pronounced with the same short |a| as "cat," but everyone knew it was really pronounced with a much broader |a| almost the same as the |a| in "care" but without the "hook" into the unvoiced but implied |r|.

26 & 27: Both "on" and "gone" rhyme with "don."

28: The |o| in "cloth" could take either sound, but the nuns prefered the |o| in "hot" to the |augh| in "caught." The rest have the |augh| sound in "caught."


By TomM on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 10:36 pm:

There's one more difference that should be mentioned between the common pronunciation and the nuns' "proper" pronunciation: "talk." Although neither pronunciation rhymes with "sock," the two are quite distinct. The nuns' version is basically the word "tall" (which rhymes with both "all*" and "awl") with an added |k|. The common version is where the |au| is about half-way between the |aw| in "saw" and the |o| in "sore," and the |l| was silent but implied.

*"All" usually rhymes with "awl," but when both the primary and secondary accents are elsewhere in the sentence, the |a| occassionally comes out as the |o| in "hot."


By Callie on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 2:49 am:

As an Englishwoman born and brought up in south-east London, here are my answers:

The following pairs of words rhyme:
9, 13, 17, 18, 20, 24, 25

26/27: “Don” rhymes with “on” and “gone”
28: I would use the “hot” vowel for all the words listed.


By Tom Vane on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 7:14 pm:

Here's my answers.

First tell us where you grew up, and if you're not a native English speaker, where you learned to speak English. Springfield, Ohio; but I moved to Allen, Texas at the age of 12

1. don/dawn different
2. hot/caught different
3. sock/talk different
4. dollar/taller different
5. pin/pen different
6. fill/feel different
7. fell/fail different
8. full/fool different
9. horse/hoarse same
10. card/cord different
11. Mary/merry same
12. merry/marry same
13. wail/whale same
14. do/dew same
14. mirror/nearer same
15. hurry/furry same
16. horror/explorer same
17. lad/bad same
18. libel/bible same
19. hear/hair different
20. nose/knows same
21. look/luck different
22. hair/her different
23. foot/boot different
24. pain/pane same
25. vein/vain same
26. If you think "don" and "dawn" are different, which of those two words does "on" rhyme with? don
27. If you think "don" and "dawn" are different, which of those two words does "gone" rhyme with? dawn
28. If you think "hot" and "caught", etc. are different, which of the two vowels would you use for words such as "cloth," "lost," "cross," "long," and "off"? caught
29. father/bother same


By Tom Vane on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 7:25 pm:

Oh, and if you find this stuff interesting go to http://students.csci.unt.edu/~kun


By R on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 7:54 pm:

Well I was born raised and am still living on the same farm in southern ohio. So I don't know if you could say I talk english. Before i give you my pairs I'll give you an example in how i talk sometimes. I usually try to enunciate my words carefully when I'm around people who don't know me or for business as if people hear a drawl they sometimes deduct a few IQ points for some reason. BUt my example is: I'll caul ya on the fone tomarra ta tawk about that wauk.

Now as for my pairs:
1,2,3,4,9,12,13,14 (a, did you notice you have 2 numeral 14), 15, 17,18, 20,24,25

As you can see a lot of words rhyme to me. I have been told by outsiders that appalachia (or as some people mistakenly call it southern) is a kinda pretty accent. But basically it means some vowels are stretched and some are shortened as well as totally droping some sylables of words or changing them. But southern (true southern) has a differnt pattern that can be heard by a lot of the speakers of each. What is funny is I listen to people from other parts of the country and while they are raggin on the way ah tawk they are goign on in their own accent.


By mertz on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 10:30 am:

1. yes, they rhyme
2. no
3. no
4. no
5. yes
6. no
7. no
8. no
9. yes
10. not a chance
11. yes
12. sorta
13. yes
14. yes
14. no
15. nope
16. yes
17. yes
18. yes
19. huh? NO
20. yes
21. no
22. no
23. nope
24. yes
25. yes
28. If you think "hot" and "caught", etc. are different, which of the two vowels would you use for words such as "cloth," "lost," "cross," "long," and "off"? (CAUGHT)


By mertz on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 10:31 am:

Oh, and I was born in the southern US


By LUIGI NOVI on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 6:17 pm:

I was born in Hoboken, NJ, and have lived all my life in Union City, NJ, the next town west.

1. - 8. Different
9. Same.
10. Different
11. Same
12. Different
13. - 15. Same.
16. Different
17. & 18. Same
19. Different
20. Same
21. Different
22. & 23. Same
24. & 25. Different
26. The Former
27. "Gone" can rhyme with either "don" or "dawn," depending on how you pronounce it.
28. "aw" or "au".


By Tom Vane on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 3:59 pm:

Since I had assumed this thread had died months ago, I didn't see the answers from October until just now. For the most part, all these responses are pretty much what I expected from the various regions. Except there's something in LUIGI NOVI's answers that I think might be a mistake:

22. & 23. Same
24. & 25. Different

22 was "hair/her" and 23 was "foot/boot." The idea behind these was that if you say "same" for 22 you should be from Liverpool or Dublin, and "same" for 23 means you're from Scotland. 24 and 25 were "pain/pane" and "vein/vain." Answering "different" to these would place you in Wales. Maybe you meant "different" for 22/23 and "same" for 24/25?


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password: