With the recent passing of John Delorean it seems appropriate to have a topic on the more strange & misguided attempts or car design.

The Delorean DMC 12 is a prime example of this, other oddballs include the Edsel 58-9 range, (Edsel was a model range rather than a single design), the Nash Metropolitan, The AMC Gremlin & Pacer, The Austin Allegro (& many other 1970s British Leyland designs), The Ford Scorpio (The frog-faced executive design). I'm sure there are many others.

Pontiac Aztek, Pontiac Vibe are both just plain ugly but effective cars. And the Delorean isnt a bad car just had some bad luck with its founder and being slightly too much for the time period it came out in.

The Ford Pinto.

Hey i used to own a ford pinto it was a great little car that held up for almost 300,000 miles. I had the v6 with an automatic and 14inch rear tires, 13inch front. The thing could top out at 110 with a 1/4 mile of under 15seconds. The most reliable car I have ever owned and wish I had it right now.

Not to mention the body styling wasn't all that bad. At least not like some of the new cars.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the pinnacle of Socialist engineering... the Trabant!

Not to mention the Yugo.

I remember that Car and Driver reviewed the Yugo in the same issue that they reviewed the Lamborghini Countach. The Yugo cost $3990, the rear wing for the Lamborghini was $4000.

The joke was to buy a Yugo, and stick it on top of your Lamborghini, and save $10.

I give you the pinnacle of Socialist engineering... the Trabant!

In the early sixties it was quite a nice little car. The durability is still legendary.

On the other hand - FIAT. Yuck yuck yuck yuck...!

Re: R

Wasn't the Pinto the car that had the exploding gas tank problem? Or was that the Mustang?

Durability, eh, Electron? Alls I know is, last season's Amazing Race used Trabants in a leg in Turkey; I think three teams' cars broke down.

Or the police crown vic. Sad to say you hit any car hard enough in the rear with a tank full of vapors and it will go boom. Contrary to popular myth the Pinto was NOT a death trap waiting to happen.
The tank was over 4 inches from the rear bumper and held up by 2 1 inch wide 1/8th inch thick steel straps. Which thanks to the lovely Ohio winters eventually rusted causing the tank to drop onto the pavement one time. I managed to bungee it up to get home and fix it but had no problems otherwise. I ran it mostly stock with only the rims being swapped out.

Yeah the AF museum has a trabant up there. i find it funny that my lawnmower has more horsepower than that thing, and you had to be on a waiting list for it.

I have actually driven a Yugo. A friend of a friend of mine had one a long time ago. I remember thinking that it would have been better if I had gotten out and walked. Only two people where required to pick the car up off the ground and carry it. Definately a no frills mobile. The only thing the Yugo had going for it was........It was cheap?

The Yugos Polish FSOs & Russian Ladas were built from license built Fiat parts. It had been suggested that the Italians were paid with scrap metal from Eastern Europe, which was then used to make new cars with. I don't know if that's true but it might explain why 1970s Italian cars have a repuatation for rusting badly.

Uh, you forgot this beauty...

http://howard2.lu-gats.com:1081/Photos/2002/2002_AmFam/2002_0805_06.JPG

Oscar Mayer's little dream machine...

That's a classic!

I actually passed the Oscar Mayer Weinermobile on the road about a month ago.

Ladies & Gentlemen, I give you the Alfa Romeo ARNA a/k/a a licence manafactured Nissan/Datsun Sunny circa 1983, which combined contempary Italian build quality (i.e it rusted like mad) with cutting edge Japanese Design (i.e angular tat).
Needless to say, the ARNA made Eastern European produced vehicles, such as the Skoda Estelle, look like paragons of design, reliability & build quality....
Reportedly this venture, was intended for Alfa to get a replcement for the Alfasud "on the cheap", so to speak, & Datsun/Nissan to produce Sunnys in Europe, using Alfa Romeo production capacity, to avoid the "Import Restrictions" on Japanese produced vehicles at the time...

But the Trabbi (Trabant) stood where the Mercedes A-class fell .... (the elk test).

Hey, no one... and the Anonymous means NO ONE... gets to criticize the Delorean unless he first figures out how to make a time machine out of some other kind of car!

Well technically, they are all time machines since they exist through time. They do not just vanish once that one point in existance is over...

Ladies and gentlemen, the Ford Focus. That thing has had a recall on it every year its been in production. They are such pieces of trash that Ford is now trying to BRIBE people into buying them by throwing in a computer.
"Just buy this car! Here, we'll give you computer!" :/

Re:last comment
You mean the Sony "PS Two" with Grand Turismo 4 or is it the "soon to be phased out" X-Box 1....
Mind you, considering it's primary market (at least in the U.K) is "Company/Rental car fleets" & it's primary users "Sales Reps", you can understand why it has such a bad reputation....
Personally, if I had to buy my own "game related" car, I'd go for the Nissan 350Z "Grand Turismo 4 Special Edition" of 176 (with a extra 20BHP over the "Vanilla" model & pay the extra £2000 to get one of the "Limited Edition Version" of 76, with the yellow paint job & hopefully a good alarm system ...

Another oddball was the Fiat Strada / Ritmo, which looked like it could have been the winner of a car of the future contest. It was one of the first CAD designes, & built by robots, though this didn't count for much in the quality control department.

Re:last comment
Yes, I remember Fiat's origional promotional T.V ad for the Strada in the U.K,in which the "Marriage of Figaro" (in a suitibly synthesised/massacred version depending on who was listening) played in the background, while the robots moved in a
"Psuedo-Balletic" manner in time with the music .
This tagline was soon "lampooned" by comedians, in the U.K to read "Driven by Italians" -
(Jasper Carrott ?), or in the "Not the Nine O'Clock News" sketch, the entire ad was amended/spoofed to read "Built by Robert's", in which the assembly line workers, depicted in the sketch were all called "Bob"....

What, we've got 8 days into this thread and no one's mentioned 90s era Skodas, the Reliant Robin and the Citroen 2CV yet?

John, IIRC, the new Mini had a problem with the fuel tank not being earthed correctly and static electricity sparks igniting the vapour in a couple of instances when owners came to put petrol in.

Why should we, when we have the spectacle of Rover publicly "self destructing" around us, to amuse our febrile minds...?
Mind you, no-one's mentioned the Triumph Stag as well as the Triumph TR-7/8, the entire 1970's Lancia range or even the Citroen/Maserati SM as examples of cars with bad reps...

The Triumph Stag was interesting because it used a one-off V8 design that was based on 2 1500 cc S4s merged together. It had a problem with warping, & the managers of the Triumph division of British Leyland refused to try the Rover V8.

I once owned a '78 Chevy Monza V6. I believe this was one of GMs earliest efforts at a V6. As far as I could tell, this engine was designed by taking a V8 and lopping off 2 cylinders. It felt like it ran as "fire-fire-fire-pause" -- very rough.

I think GM tried making V6s by removing 2 cylinders from from a V8 sometime in the 60s. They seemed to try a few things which didn't quite work out & offloaded them to others who managed to get better results. For example the Repco GP Engines were alloy block 'compact' engines which cost too much to mass produce, & the Rover V8 was also a cast off, possibly the same design. Some Stag owners have transplanted a Rover V8 into their cars, likewise some TR7s have been upgraded to TR8s.

On the other hand, by the mid-80s, GM made some very fine V-6s. The '86 Buick Regal Grand National (6 cylinder aluminum block) comes to mind -- it regularly trashed Corvettes on the test track, and Car&Driver found it to be faster on the standing quarter (0-60 in 4.9s, 13s 1/4 mile) than anything except a Porsche 911.

One thign I find interesting is that Suzuki and GM recently partnered to let Suzuki build GM designed V6 engines for suzuki vehicles. Not a bad thign considering the biggest V6 in the Suzuki stable is a 2.7L in the XL-7 and the Verona.

The power and ability of the Grand National BUick is one of the reasons they stopped production as the Buick brandline wasn't supposed to be the performance one. Similar reason why the reatta was cancelled. Still though in the ninties as an option on some park avenues I know of you could get a 3.8l supercharged engine that was really sweet.

Which the 3.8l is the direct decedent of the 1962 198cuin engine they used in Buick but it didnt give enough power compared to the V8s so they sold it to jeep (then kaiser0 and then bought it back in the 70s upped the size a bit to the 3.8 we know now and have just been tweaking the tech since then.

I wish I could get my hands on an '86 Grand National.

Stand in Line. Just be careful of clones.

Spelling nit:

REPUTATION

Oh well, how about the various attempts to produce a Volkswagen/Audi sports car
(pre Audi TT)...
(These usually ended up as part of the Porsche model line up, most notably the 914 a/k/a the VOPO, and the 924/944 family...)

I drive an old (1991) Ford Tempo. I call it my "alimony special" because as long as I have to pay my ex-wife alimony, I won't be able to afford a new car. So, I gotta keep this one going. Consumer Reports never had a good word to say about the car during its 11 model year run. But, it hasn't been so bad for me. Gas mileage isn't so great, but it hasn't been in the repair shop as much as my Dodge Aries was. I kept that thing going for 14 years and 140,000 miles. Four sets of tires, three sets of shocks (including the originals for both) two replacement head gaskets, four radios (one of which was stolen) and a transmission rebuild, among other stuff. Right now, I have a Sony CD player (circa 2001) in the Tempo now, and I love it. Unless it gets ripped off, it stays. The 2.3 liter four cylinder engine in it was based on the straight six (cut two cylinders off) that powered cars as far back as the Falcon. What kills any car in the New York area is the condition of the roads, and much front end work was done on both of the cars I've mentioned.
I remember a news item in 1986 or '87. Some Cadillac dealer was giving away Yugoes with the purchase of a Caddy. People raised a stink, as they wanted $4000 off the price of the Caddy, not a Yugo. Proving you couldn't even give those lemons away.
Remember when GM tried to market a diesel car in the 1980's? Instead of a ground-up new engine design (like Mercedes-Benz did) they tried to base the diesel on a gasoline engine block. Sorry, fellas. Bad idea. Didn't work, and a lot of them wound up being converted to gasoline engines anyway (those that weren't scrapped.)
Wasn't the Monza based on the Chevy Vega? Remember them? The aluminum block four cylinder engine would overheat and sieze if it was even a little low on coolant. GM tried to make amends by putting a 5 year/50,000 mile warranty on the engine. By then, the word was out. Too little, too late.

Re:The DeLorean
Reportedly, a U.S company is set to start a limited production run of New DeLorean vehicles.
The reported cost of said car is set to be around $25,000....

But will it come with a Flux Capacitor?

Actually i think I'd rather have the mister fusion option. Cut down on fuel costs.

Flying car=happy Mark.

Just saying.

hey mark, the flying part isn't what will make you happy, the part that enables it to land without killing you will make you happy.

Oh, sure, take the fun out!

Yeah, well, you know how those Klingons are...

Am I crazy or is there a car that can run on Cow poop?

Yuch


Customer: Filler up with cow poop

Gas station attendent: Do it yourself!

The answer is yes and sorta yes. Methane can be made from manure.

I thought klingon's didnt mind a few risks for a worthy cause. Any landing you can walk away from is a good one they say....

but risking possible injury due to stupidity is not honorable.

Customer at Gas station: Filler up with 12 gallons of Cow Poop

Gas station attendent: Kinda smells doesn't it?

but just imagine the regulations on the proper handling of cow poop.. don't want to be getting a disease when filling up do we...

Aww where's your sense of fun and adventure?

Quick whats a redneck's last words?

Hey y'all watch this!

Worst car of all time:

The Edsel

The tiny Smart car will be brought into the US, starting in 2008. I saw a lot of these when I was in France last year, and I was impressed by the small size. I also wondered if they could meet American safety regulations, and if they could survive the horrendously maintained American roads. (It was Fiat's cars inability to survive American roads that forced them to withdraw from the US market in 1984.)

Re:last comment
Indeed, Adam, I wounder how well the Mk2 Fourtwo will sell in the U.S....
I suspect that their main market will be major metropolises such as New York City or San Francisco....
Expect Fourtwo's to start appearing outside chic townhouses in the near future....

New York City wants to replace their entire fleet of taxicabs (most of which are Ford Crown Victorias) with hybrid Ford Escape compact SUV's. The hybrids get better mileage than the Crown Vics, for sure. But, I'm not that sure about the Escape's durability on the worse-than-horrendous New York City roads. Especially since the Escape is a unibody, and the Vic is the old-style body-on-frame construction.

The escape isnt that bad. A lot of unibody constructs are rolling on the roads of America and do hold up reasonably well under nominal driving conditions.

I'll agree though that it is goign to be interesting to see if the Escape can hold up under the rigors of taxi/Fleet service. The hybrid technology is not going to be a problem though since Ford bought older Toyota Synergy drive technology for use in their hybrids. It'll be the reast of the vehicle that will break first.

Either way about it it is nice to see a government agency making such a responsible on many differednt levels move.

It was interesting to see Adam Bomb mention Consumer Reports. The magazine stresses "reliability" as one of their most important factors for recommending a car. Unfortuately, it doesn't always work out that way. The Toyota Camry has an excellent reliability record, but the one my neighbor bought was a total 'lemon' (the brand new car's engine needed to be replaced). The Toyota dealer was incredibly difficult to him and had an attitude of " it's a Toyota, so it can't be the fault of the car". After threatening to go to court under the 'Lemon Law", the dealer finally agreed to replace the engine.

Well Consumer Reports does rate things for over all and you will always have outliers.

Yahoo has a page up for The Cars That Drove Detroit's Customers Away. Check it out, and see if your ole' beater is on the list. (The Ford Pinto isn't, but the Mustang II - which was based on the Pinto - is.)

And, Forbes has an article about The Ten Cars That Depreciate The Fastest. Note that four Chrysler Corp. cars are on the list.

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quote:

The Toyota Camry has an excellent reliability record, but the one my neighbor bought was a total 'lemon' (the brand new car's engine needed to be replaced). The Toyota dealer was incredibly difficult to him and had an attitude of " it's a Toyota, so it can't be the fault of the car". After threatening to go to court under the "Lemon Law", the dealer finally agreed to replace the engine.

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And, the Corolla may be recalled a second time, for steering problems. More here.
I've driven two Corollas (one my dad's, one a rental) and a (rental) Camry, and never saw what the big deal was about those cars. I've also rented a Chrysler 300 and a VW Jetta; those cars were a blast to drive. To be fair, I drove a Lexus IS at a Lexus event in 2005; that car was great to drive as well.

Re: Lexus
Given that some Toyota cars sold outside Japan, which are branded as Lexus, are sold in Japan as mainstream Toyota's...
For example the IS 200, abeit with several differences, such as a 4 cylinder engine,with a higher power output, than the 6 cylinder unit used in the "Export Version", & 6 speed manual gearbox, is sold in Japan as the Toyota Altezza...
As for the VW Jetta, I wonder what would happen if VW/Audi America sold Skoda's, such as the Octavia RSi, as part of a new product line in the U.S...?

My cousin drives a Smart car. She raves about it, as it is VERY fuel efficient.

My mom's Toyota Yaris is the same way. And I helped pick it out in 2007. A new Pacific Blue Yaris, with great handling and milage on the highway. Cool!

The Jeep Grand Cherokee, redesigned in 2014, is apparently fraught with problems. The 2015 model is what killed Trek actor Anton Yelchin on 6/18/2016. Here's another (negative) opinion.

The owner of the laundromat I use (about twice a week) just got a Mercedes Benz C-Class; I joked with her that my money went to pay for her car. I guess she never saw this Scotty Kilmer video from You Tube, in which Scotty states that Mercedes are total money pits. In the video, he hooks up a scan tool to a Mercedes, and right away finds 25 trouble codes.

Mercedes is a high maintenance girl.

I mentioned the Chevy Vega before; GM's little unloved subcompact. For the car's 40th anniversary in 2010, Popular Mechanics did a real hatchet job on the car. My supervisor at the job I had in college (back in the 1970's) had a yellow '74 Vega hatchback. He sold it after only one year; he had issues with the car that I've forgotten.

I found this article amusing. A man traded in his Tesla Model S for a Chrysler 300. The Tesla has pretty poor build quality, noted (many times) by YouTube guy Scotty Kilmer. Especially for the price ($86,000 in 2019; I dread to think what the price is now.) The Chrysler 300 is no reliability king, but the one I rented a number of years ago was a blast to drive. More on that here.

What about Dodge Automobiles ?
Are they really that bad on
"Married With...Children"
Chicago women's shoe salesman
Al Bundy drives a Dodge, and there are constant Jokes about how
Dodge is a crappy car

Don't base your opinion of a car brand on comments from an old sitcom. Like the old slogan from Packard (a car nameplate that was shut down in 1959), "Ask the man who owns one". I had a Dodge Aries K from 1981 to 1995. I went through two head gaskets, multiple sets of shocks, struts and tires, a rebuilding of the automatic transmission, and other stuff I've forgotten.

Pretty much all American cars had quality issues in the late 70s/early 80s.

From what I've read, Dodge is decent now, with occasional fit & finish issues, but not engine quality.

Here's an idea, Winters. If you want to know about Dodge, go and rent one. I'm sure there are plenty at the various rental agencies. Keep in mind, though, that the Challenger and Charger were discontinued for 2024. And, stay away from Hertz. A number of their customers over the past few years have been arrested and even jailed. When their legitimately rented vehicles were reported stolen by Hertz. More on that here.

Oops!

Here's more about the "stolen" Hertz rental cars. It seems like it was a combination of employee laziness and arrogance that led to this. If Hertz ever had a good reputation, it's in the circular file now. Personally, I've rented from Enterprise when I needed a rental car. And, I've never been arrested for having a "stolen" car.

I use Enterprise locally, and National when renting at an airport

Wasn't Al's car in reality a Plymouth Duster?

I thought it was a Dart.

I stand corrected. It was a Duster, even though it was referred to as a Dodge.

Enterprise's tag line is that they'll pick you up.

Shouldn't that be they'll beam you up?