How about those 1000 year old Minbari ships? It's easy to see how the current design for their cruisers evolved.

My mother and I both spotted this one. How come Delenn has to explain it to everyone? We figured out the Sinclair/Valen connection way earlier. And then, even after Delenn has explained it, Marcus seems to be the only who figures it out!

I like Marcus as much as the next guy, but, he figured it out slowly (assuming the others also figured it out first). It has been a while since I have seen the episode. They didn't show anyone else figuring it out for shock value. All the clues were there, Sherlock.... it was just a matter of putting it together.

B5 and DS9 both have: a C.O. becoming an (almost) unwilling religious leader to an alien culture.

Dear Santa - please can I have a Zathras for Christmas? I promise I've been good!

Is it just me,or was the scene where Delenn and Sinclair have that "It all happened just the way I remember it" conversation, slightly different from same chat in "Babylon Squared"?
That said this is an excellent two parter even if it was fairly obvious about Valen from about erm...five seconds into the first part. As always with B5, there are no answers, just more questions. Brilliant stuff.

It is different. In "Babylon Squared," Delenn is wearing red and she touches Sinclair's shoulder just after he says that line. In this ep, she does neither. She also says something(in "B Squared"), but I don't remember what, so I can't say whether that was different.

Great episode! Wonderful to see Sinclair again, and to see him and Sheridan together.

So was it Delenn whom Sinclair-from-season-one touched, the figure who blew him backwards? Why would she have that reaction on him? I always thought Sinclair was touching himself, and that was what caused the energy discharge.

It is different. In "Babylon Squared," Delenn is wearing red and she touches Sinclair's shoulder just after he says that line. In this ep, she does neither. She also says something(in "B Squared"), but I don't remember what, so I can't say whether that was different.

Great episode! Wonderful to see Sinclair again, and to see him and Sheridan together.

So was it Delenn whom Sinclair-from-season-one touched, the figure who blew him backwards? Why would she have that reaction on him? I always thought Sinclair was touching himself, and that was what caused the energy discharge.

I thought it was still Sheridan at that point. I may not remember the episode properly, but I think that Delenn didn't get Sheridan out of the suit and take his place until after he'd touched Sinclair.

For that matter, why did Delenn need to get into the suit? Why didn't she just haul Sheridan out and let the suit go back in time on its own?

I may have posted this comment elsewhere, so forgive me if I'm repeating myself:

Where did the name "Valen" come from? Sinclair heard it from the Minbari when they described their legendary leader from way back. Then he went back in time and became Valen. So who invented the name Valen??

Time Loop theory.

Gosh, Scott, that's helpful!! Still doesn't answer my question, though!

Well, what about the Triluminary? Doesn't Delenn say that her people discovered that technology 1,000 years ago? Wouldn't that put it at about the same time that Sinclair arrived with it (or one of them?) in the past? So where did it come from? The future or the past? [I know someone posted something like this in another place on the B5 board--forgive my inadvertant plargarism]

Sorry, Callie.... That's discussed over on the "Temporal Mechanics Gives Me A Headache" board. The Time Loop theory is basically, "You go back in time and give me a watch to give to you to take back in time with you. Where did the watch come from?"

You imagine what the Minbari would have been like on the Battle of the Line if they had killed one of the most important figures in their history.
OOUUCCHH!!!!!!!

The triluminary came from the Great Machine. You can see the boxes (three of them) when Zathras is bringing them onboard B4. The Great Machine either orginated it OR it was given to it sometime in the past, since Valen knew that Deleen would need it thus causing the same time loop that the letter from Valen/Sinclair caused.

Valen/Sinclair would obviously tell Kosh 1 & 2 (that met him and were hovering above him at the end of WWE 2) what was to happen in the next 1000 years including the Earth-Minbari War, him being on the Battle of the Line and being taken on board the Flagship. Thus they were able to (kinda tell) Deleen in ITB what to do before they wiped out Earth.

About why Delenn needed the suit to touch Sinclair. Well would you want Sinclair from 2258 to see you as a transformed Minbari? That might end up with some rather awkward questions, especially as Delenn was on the Grey Councils cruiser at the time. If Sinclair had seen her without even the helmet, the future would have been changed.

But would he have recognised her? She has much the same face but the hair makes all the difference - in a crisis situation like they were in, I'm not sure he would even have recognised her.

Of course, without the suit she wouldn't have been able to travel back in time anyway, so the whole question's academic!

Cute moment: Garibaldi, trying to work out what password Sinclair has put on his message and so reeling off various words - including "Socks, fasten, zip ..."!

Triluminary history ;)

(Keep in mind that everything, including the time-travel, is relative to these "devices")

They are created by the Great Machine sometime before 2260AD, they are given to Sinclair/Valen in 2260 and he uses 'em to change himself. They go back in time with Valen to ~1260AD and do whatever it is they do, and later are given to the Gray Council by Valen. 1000 years later Delenn uses 'em to change herself (one even lights up for her and Sinclair). These 1000-year old devices stay in the 'present' while the original, created ones, are given to Sinclair to change him and go back in time.

Essentially, the ones used in the show (except in this episode) are 1000 years old. No time-continuity issues should arise from them.


I must admit, I am extremely impressed with time-travel in this episode/series -- I cannot find paradoxes (ignoring Delenn's dress color)! Very refreshing!

Big Nit: Near the end of the episode, when everybody is standing in B4 C&C, you can clearly see a star pattern in the window. At this point, the station is still in the temporal vortex.

Ah, here's a few nits! (Although these nits may date back to Babylon Squared...)

Why are the B4 staff using PPG's? Shouldn't they have those ugly guns seen in The Gathering? Similarly, why do the uniforms have the leather bits on them? (The leather nit can also be seen in In The Begining.)

Certain parts of B4's crew did have uniform elements introduced in Season 2 like the Flight wings on the shoulder and so on. It's probably just simpler to co-ordinate. Krantz wouldn't have had these anyway being a Major, and having a ground forces uniform, no chance of being a fighter pilot.

In Babylon Squared and this two parter, Zathras is always referring to himsef in the third person. However, at one point in this episode (I can't remember exactly when), he says I.

Mind you, as there are 10 Zathras Brothers, all with the same name,
(But Pronounced Differently in each case),
you might begin referring to yourself in this manner.
Or it is his brother Z,ath'Rass, that he's currently referring to/talking about (in this instance) ?
Yours,Puzz'led

Exactly which time stabilizer does Zathras repair and hand to Delenn? He apparently attached Sheridan's broken time stabilizer to the space suit so as to use the suit's power supply. When Delenn is in the suit, she should still have the broken, failing stabilizer with her, so what does Zathras have?