It's not the end... the Babylon 5 universe is just beginning. And I feel that it can only get better...

Actually It is the end. Sure there will be another B5 TV Movie and sure a new TV series and yes maybe even a thearical Movie but It will not be the same.

I said the Babylon 5 universe. True, we may see thigns like the end of Babylon 5 itself, but that is "years" away. The universe is just getting started, with Crusade and other media Babylon 5 events coming our way.

Babylon 5 has always had a semi-religious component to it. I have seen the photos from this episode at the TNT website. In 20 years, Sheridan looks a lot like the traditional image of God: The white-grey beard, in robe-liek costume and head of all (in this case, all being the Interstellar Alliance). Interesting look!

What an excellent episode! The incredible music added significantly to the feeling of sadness.

The episode had the ultimate of lovlies - JMS himself was the technician who turned out the lights.

Long live Babylon 5!!!

This was a good episode, but not the complete wrap up I was expecting. There are still unanswered questions about the fate of some characters (Lennier, Lyta Alexander) and underdeveloped plotlines (wasn't there supposed to be a major clash between telepaths and "normals".

Joe Pintar

Joe That is for Crusade to tell us.

I assumed that they would include not only Sinclair, but all the other characters who had left over the five year run. Talia, Lyta, Keffer, Dr. Kyle, etc.

One Word: WOW!

Great Episode. Very interuging. Also very symbolic of B5. The Destruction of Babylon 5 was wonderful. Also the music stands out above all other episodes. Great to see Ivanova again. Loved her narration at the end.

WOW!

~Amos Painter

How did the man who turned out the lights on B5 manage to get out before the station's destruction?

At the reunion dinner, why did no one offer a toast to Lyta? Zack might have, but he wasn't there.

When Garibaldi got his invitation from Sheridan, it seemed to me, based on the conversation with Dr. Franklin, that his relationship with Sheridan was still somewhat strained. I thought they had reconciled.

Did Garibaldi ever find something to help Lyta fight the Psi Corp? Did Garibaldi ever get his revenge on Bester?

Why didn't Ivanova or somebody at the reunion give Sheridan a heads up or advance notice that B5 was about to be destroyed?

Delenn sure didn't age much in twenty years.

Did Ivanova outlive Delenn? It seemed so from Ivanova's voiceover. It was my understanding, based on the last episode of the 4th season, that Delenn would continue to live for another 100 years (give or take a year).

Hans I think i get what you are saying about Ivanova outliving Delenn. Garibaldi did not age much either.
Also, Why does Sheridan not know that B5 was being decommission or that know one came to the station. Surely he would get updates on the station.

On Ivanova outliving Delenn, I thought Ivanova said every day for as long she "knew" Delenn so she did every day until she died. Or Ivanova might have jumped into narrator mode, and was making a very open statement.

~Amos Painter

My god this was a great episode. B5 is quite possible the greatest Television show of this generation. I was bawling (and not afraid to admit it) at the end when B5 went up like a roman candle. The scene was pure genius with a music score that hit home hard. Here is earth's last best hope for peace. It survived 25 years of war, political unrest, and countless terrorist plots. The beacon of hope succeded all the dangers just to be cacked by bueracracy (a very fitting and poetic end). When it was destroyed the part of everyone who walked her halls died, including a part of the fans of B5. No other last episode in television history had so much impact. B5 will live on forever.

So, by 2282, Babylon 5 is disused and in an
unimportant location. Did i miss something or
can we conclude sometime between 2262 and
2282 something has happened to Drall and the
great machine on epsilon three. If it still existed
wouldn't that alone be reason to keep b5 in
commission?

SIL was a disappointment to me. In fact, with a few exceptions, season five shows were disappointing. It might have been better had the show ended after season four. The two episodes immediately preceding SIL were mostly talking heads engaged in long drawn out (and predictable)conversations. So many things were left unsaid.

I've read JMS's postings on the moderated B5 newsgroup over the last several years. The things he said and promised, either actually or implicitly, did not come to pass. Whether that was all JMS's fault, or the result of pressure from TV honchos is, of course, unknown. Nevertheless, even to the end, I felt his posts did not accurately reflect where the show was going. Most recently, he's attacked those who weren't satisfied, calling them "trolls." This is even more disappointing and disillusioning. He's also said that we have to buy upcoming books and watch upcoming shows to find out "what happened" to many of the threads raised in B5. This flies in the face of his previous statements that he did not want to create a "franchise" like Star Trek, and that the B5 show was a self-contained novel. It's also been implied we should use our imaginations. I don't think I should have to write the story.

On the other hand, my son liked the final episode as closure to the show, so maybe it's a matter of "your mileage may vary." Actually, I liked portions of the show, taken as an isolated episode, but I just feel that, taken as a whole, Babylon 5 was ultimately unsatisfying and a letdown.

BTW, Ivanova *did* say that Delenn watched the sunrise "as long as she lived", which I also found puzzling, because how would she know what Delenn did after she (Ivanova) died? I've never seen this point raised on any of the newsgroups, but I did wonder about it, as well as the remark that she "never saw him" (Sheridan) in her lifetime. Well, she wasn't dead yet, was she?

Cheers
IZ

On the subject of loose threads from season 5 not getting wrapped up in this last episode, I believe that was because this "Sleeping in Light" was filmed at the end of season 4 when they did not know if there would be a season 5. They couldn't conclude plotlines that didn't exist yet. A lot of changes and switch-a-roos had to be made to the story when it looked like season 4 might be the end. (At least this is my understanding.)

Hey Here is one I thought of. How come Zack did not get "the letter" Wouldn't the Ranger know where is he was?

Still haven't seen the whole episode, but thankfully TNT reran it last Wednesday night and I caught the last half. I think that the episode was uneven at best, given that this was what JMS had been working towards for 5 years. He even said on Usenet that he had the whole final scenes scripted out in his head before he ever wrote the pilot. This was a story in which the author had all major threads written from day one, so why the gaps? I guess we can only conclude that those unanswered questions were not worth answering...

But I did catch a nit! In the scene between Delenn and Sheridan the night before he is to leave/disappear/die, the two of them are talking in bed. At one point, Mira Furlan adjusts her position in the bed, and you can see the bone crest move!

Did anyone catch the mirror? JMS mentioned that there was a scene with a mirror that gave him the complete and total chills when he saw the way it was lit, but the only scene I saw was at the end when Ivanova was fitting herself into the Rangers outfit as the new Ranger One...and I didn't see anything? What did I miss?

I'll hold additional comments until I have a chance to see the whole episode.

Kyle Look for the scene where Sheridan is looking into the mirror.

this episode has just aired in the UK (after a very long wait), and i'm not quite sure what to think. No answers, just more questions.
That said it had a certain gentle power from beginning to end, and as TV goes i couldn't really fault a single scene. Still thinking about it though.

I saw it too, and noticed a problem. The shadow thing (in the pot) from the episode before didn't get mentioned.

Ed Because the shadow thing in the pot at that point had already happened.

I saw the mirror, but did not see the light.

ANP

When Sheridan was dressing on his final morning, beside him in his reflection there was a shape like a cross. Nice bit of symbolism, especially as it was put there accidentally by the set dresser.

Just noticed another piece of 'closure' - all three people who Zathras described as The One (Sinclair, Sheridan and Delenn) were all at some time the leader of the Rangers.

Whose leader is described as "the one"

In War Without End, Sinclair is 'The One who was', Delenn is 'The one who is' and Sheridan is 'The one who will be'

As to loose ends, I agree with JMS. Did you complain that 'Lord of the Rings' did not wrap up every possible plot thread? Real life isn't like that. Did you want him to spend the hour going 'Right. The Keeper for David. Well, we got rid of that. Sinclair, well he lived a long life, then died with Catherine. Talia. Well, she's in a test tube somewhere. Besters looking for a new wig.

The telepath war happened before this episode. In fact, it happened before 'Call to Arms', and will be adresse din a theatrical film, if they ever do it.
No one said Lyta because as someone said, there was no-one there who was especially close to her. Zach might have, but he was absent.
They couldn't show Michael o Hare or Tracey Scoggins for contactual reasons. They has to use the s4 cast credits, otherwise it would have cost them a LOT of money.
Michael O Hare is in the big group shot over the credits. Hes just behind and a little to out right of JMS. Hes wearing glasses. Jason Carter is also there.
Iris, what things did JMS 'promise' that he did not do? And does he owe a dept to you to show what you want? This is his story. He tells it his way. He didn't have time in B5 to resolve every plotline. You'd complain if B5 ended NOW, with no books, no spin-off, no TV movies. He has the opportunity to expand the B5 universe through these, and so is able to tell some stories through these mediums. B5 is a self-contained story, but as in Lord of the Rings, it does leave some loose-ends. Its hardly a franchise. Hes just allowing himselfand other people to tell more stories in this universe, and since Crusade has been mentioned as possible since the first season, hes not dilluting it at all. Whenwe start gtting toys saying 'John Sheridan, in damaged Z'Ha'Dum uniform' THEN its a franchise.
Well, THAT was a long post. BTW, I loved the episode. It changed my view of the series. B5 isn't/wasn't about the Shadow War. It wasn't about Earth, or Minbar. It was about Sheridan, Sinclair, Ivonova, Delenn, Franklin, Garibaldi, Londo, G'Kar, Vir, Zack, Lennier, and the most and least important member, the Babylon 5 station herself.

Another thought about B5 not becoming a franchise. JMS has got to eat you know.

True. This man has turned down offers of money and other shows to do B5.

SIL was on terrestrial TV here in Britain last night. My first reaction is that it was a darn sight better than the four preceding episodes, which felt like they only needed one episode to wrap up the plot- after all, nothing new happened except the cootie in the pot and Lennier's out of character murder attempt. Frankly I found virtually the whole of season 5 was a let-down- compared to seasons 2,3 & 4 which were undoubtedly the finest sci-fi drama ever to appear on TV.

And yes, I did cry at the end- I loved the 'sun coming up' on the White Star and the way Boxleitner played it.

I started to break up at that point, and then with Ivonova's voice over, and everyone saying goodbye, I went completly.
I just about composed myself, and then the end credits set me off again.
JMS said he that he had the end of the story done almost before the beginning. If his ending for Crusade is even half as good as this, it'll be worth it.

Finally saw the whole episode on TNT's 4:00 running of B5...glad the school has a Reading Week this week. I have to say that I was moved and disappointed at the same time. When I compare this episode (in my mind) to the first season, I feel like something is missing. Perhaps it is that the series did not get wrapped up nice and neat, as we had hoped. There were any number of unsatisfying parts to this ending, not the least of which was the destruction of Bablylon 5. Yes, by far it was some of the finest CGI yet done on the show - the attention to detail in the explosion and resulting shower of debris onto Epsilon III was nothing short of spectacular. But really, would the Interstellar Alliance have allowed B5 to be destroyed? And don't give me that "hazard to navigation" baloney. How much of a hazard to interstellar travel is a space station in orbit about a planet? Especially in a universe that uses jumpgate technology? Weak arguement for destroying the place. The Interstellar Alliance would not allow B5 to be destroyed any more than Americans would allow Independence Hall or Fort McHenry to be bulldozed or the USS Constitution to be broken up for firewood. Babylon 5 was the place where galactic history was made, where the final collision between the old races and the new races took place, where beings millenia old faced their young charges and gave them the galaxy. IMO, the only reason to allow B5 to be destroyed would be if it was falling apart and no longer repairable. Or maybe other races don't value sentimentality and holding onto a tangible piece of history like humans do...but that should have been made explicit!

I wish this whole episode had ended another way. It seemed so gloomy. Fiction can reflect who we are, but it also needs to supply us with a sense of hope. Give us something! Either B5 as a historic monument, or a moving death scene for Sheridan, surrounded by his closest friends and family (why'd they keep David out of the story?).

Or maybe it's just me. I've never seen a series finale that I've said "Yeah, that's the way to go out." Guess I'll have to keep hoping.

Just glad that TNT is repeating everything all over again.

1. The Earth Alliance destroyed B5 since they had taken control of it at some point before the episode.
2. How about someone using it as a base of operations for Evil Is that a better reason?

True Richie true.

And on Series Finales, I have here of sufficently satisfying Series Enders.

Seinfeld: I loved seeing those jerks get their just deserts.
Star Trek TNG: A hell of way to go, while still leaving it open for the movies.
Cheers: I was moved.

How about M*A*S*H? It's finale closed everything up fairly well.

ANP

Two nights ago we finally got to the end of Season 5. Did I cry? Abso-••••-lutely.
But I kept reflecting on Season 4's ending...the way that Sheridan's legacy will live on in legend and song. Why? Okay, so he's obviously charismatic, honorable, brave, noble, all of that jazz. But...what's the big deal with this guy?

Still, a great ending. Lorien, the destruction of B5, Ivanova's voice-over, De'lenn watching the sunrise...all among the most poignant moments on television.

Speaking, as many of you have done, about what happened to various characters (I always loved Talia, and wanted her to come back, all healed and happy, to help Susan get over Marcus), what about young David Sheridan?

::But I kept reflecting on Season 4's ending...the way that Sheridan's legacy will live on in legend and song. Why? Okay, so he's obviously charismatic, honorable, brave, noble, all of that jazz. But...what's the big deal with this guy? :: rachgd

uh..because he saved the Universe from the Shadows and then united the different worlds in the Alliance? :^)

I always felt Sheridan was a great guy, but he wasn't really the god-like image the show made him out to be at times, in my opinion.

Coming back from the dead and controling the fate of trillions doesn't imbue a character with god-like qualities in your book? :^)

LOL!

Not any more than you would consider the president of the UN the world leader.

I don't know. I just seems that Sheridan was a great historical figure. Kinda like George Washington, would be how I compare him historical. But I guess the dying and a coming back, and dying again would add something to his character.

I don't know, maybe it's the romantic in me but I'd like to imagine that when it is Delenn's time to die that Lorien or Sheridan (after all we didn't actually see him DIE) come for her and take her beyond the rim where they can live maybe in a regenerated state.
After all there is all these comparisons with Lord of the Rings, does 'Beyond the Rim' not compare with the Elves 'Going over the Sea'?
I like to think so anyway.

Among the many questions this final B5 episode left me with include: Did Delenn ever tell Sheridan that she was the one who authorized the Minbari Federation's genocidal war against the Earth Alliance? And: Did Vir ever publicly admit that he assasinated Emperor Cartagia?

I can watch this episode over and over. It's lovely.

I still cry at the best bits: Sheridan and Delenn's final hug, Sheridan's death, B5's destruction.

The final voiceover is powerful and moving. 'We have to create to future, or others will do it for us' etc. I've quoted that elsewhere.

As Richie showed, it's easy to come up with a better reason to destroy the station.

Interesting to see the 'before and after' pictures of Marcus at the end. He's in cryostasis awaiting technology to revive him, by order of Susan Ivanova...

A fine end to a so-so season. I've wondered, did concerns about the making of five season lead to some major story arcs terminating prematurely in season 4, leaving insufficient material for season 5? Does anyone know?

That is exactly right. From what I've heard, if JMS had been certain that there would be a season 5, the Shadow War might have stretched further into season 4 and season 5 might have been full of the war against Earth. (Some proof of this is that "Sleeping in Light" was filmed at the end of season 4, in case season 5 never came to pass). As it worked out, we got a stunning 4th season and a drawn-out, more mediocre 5th.

>A fine end to a so-so season. I've wondered, did concerns about the making of five season lead to some major story arcs terminating prematurely in season 4, leaving insufficient material for season 5? Does anyone know?
-Sophie Hawksworth

Yes, indeed. See below. (You might also try looking over the Lurker's Guide at http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html or other B5 websites for more details)

>That is exactly right. From what I've heard, if JMS had been certain that there would be a season 5, the Shadow War might have stretched further into season 4 and season 5 might have been full of the war against Earth. (Some proof of this is that "Sleeping in Light" was filmed at the end of season 4, in case season 5 never came to pass). As it worked out, we got a stunning 4th season and a drawn-out, more mediocre 5th.
-Sarah Perkins

That's not quite how I heard it. As I understand it, the Shadow War ended when it was supposed to. The war with Earth was supposed to stretch into S5 by about 4 episodes (S4 was supposed to end with Sheridan's capture). Byron was supposed to be introduced late in S4 (presubably after Marcus' death, given his intended romance with Ivanova) and be gone by mid S5. At that point, he would have resolved the main character's arcs and ended with SiL.

From what was produced, JMS had to shuffle his arc schedule in such a way that didn't work out well. Early in S5, we got too much time with the IA and Byron storylines, which didn't play off of each other very well. After those finished, we started resolving the characters, and it improved greatly.

Thankyou, Sarah and Dustin.

Some people seem to decry Season 5 totally, but in my mind, the main 'taint' on it is the Byron character who I, and a lot of others, didn't like.

Otherwise, Season 5 was fine.

I can't find fault with this episode just because it didn't answer all our questions. The entire episode was about saying goodbye and it did that with a gallon of tears.

The Centauri Prime trilogy and Techomage trilogy of novels gave us a lot of those answers in the end.

I'm forced to wonder if the "hazard to navigation" excuse was TOO blatantly bad, and if there was a real reason the station was destroyed that we would have found out about in good time if things on Crusade had played out. Oh well, now that there is a new B5 project underway, maybe we will find out.

What? New Babylon 5 project? Please, do tell? Where can I get info!!!

Hazard to navigation? Its a space station circling a planet. Point the jumpgate a different direction and the problem is solved.

All that I've heard about it is that its there. No idea what it is yet, but JMS has confirmed that somethign is in the works.

About why the station was REALLY destroyed... I was just watching Grail the other day when it hit me. Of course! It's because Thomas left! Never mind the fact the big BOOM came 20 years later, that has to be it! Argh! But let's not be selfish here, the man had a purpose to fulfill, too bad the side effect of B5 eventually meeting its doom is so argh annoying to us viewers :-)

Most. Boring. Episode. Ever.

I wouldn't be so sure. I would say that Eyes is a better candidate for that dubious honor.

But really, would the Interstellar Alliance have allowed B5 to be destroyed? And don't give me that "hazard to navigation" baloney. How much of a hazard to interstellar travel is a space station in orbit about a planet? Especially in a universe that uses jumpgate technology? Weak arguement for destroying the place.

I can't agree more. It's a FIVE MILE LONG station for crying out loud! It's not like it's going to sneak up on you or anything.

Of course, since the EA later controls B5, there's another reason for the destruction. The official line of 'obsolete tech', 'navigation hazard' etc is there, but another thing with B5 is that it's the place where there was a rebellion against the Earth Government, and that might not sit too well with some of the ones in power. You're not telling me all the Clark sympathisers were purged. I'm not talking about the likes of Captain Hall who fired on passenger vessels, but politicians, and higher ups.