Moderator's Note: This is Mike's original Susan summary:

Continuity has not been kind to Susan. Is she as old as she looks? Is she a Time Lord? Is she actually the Doctor's granddaughter?

Susan did a good job of grounding the Doctor's character. While the 1st Doctor was busy mumbling and "hmmm"ing, she managed to bring out the humanity (or Gallifreity, I guess) of the role). She also got a good farewell scene (well, I always loved the Doctor's little speech).



I always wondered about that. If her parents were alive I think they would be a little pissed that he abandoned her on war-torn Earth because she took a fancy to some guerilla fighter. Is that responsible parenting (or grandparenting)?

I think it's safe to say that Susan's parents are probably dead. (Although Hartnell had an idea for a story called The Son Of Doctor Who in which the Doctor's son, to be played by Hartnell, was evil. The idea was turned down.) I got the feeling that they depended on each other because there was no one else.

Amongst all the 'is she a Time Lord/is she really the Doctor's granddaughter' business, has anyone wondered what her real name is?

Some suggestions for her real name:

1. Susanveruntrelundar

2. Susansusansusansusan

3. Susan Who

If we go by Romana's full name, it's no wonder an forgetful old Time Lord like the Doctor cut her real name down in size.
Of course, she could still be known as 'Susan' in Gallifreyan, since some of our names should be duplicated, at least phonetically, by other races. Maybe it's spelt 'Soozin' in Gallifreyan?

A man of religion here on Earth can be termed a 'father'. Priests call one another 'Father Hackett' and 'Father Ted' and don't actually mean anything familial. So, perhaps the Doctor and Susan are not related in any way, and Susan calls the Doctor 'grandfather' as some kind of religious doctrine. The Doctor is her mentor perhaps?

Hmmmm...

Grandfather?

Perhaps a connection with Grandfather Paradox?

I've suddenly discovered a rather humiliating flaw in my theory - how can we get around him calling her 'granddaughter'...? Oh hell, at least I had a go...

PJW- Don't priests sometimes use the expression 'my son/daughter'?

So maybe it could be that.

But ******* to that. She's his daughter's daughter. Live with it.

I will NOT live with it Edje!!!

Enough NAs/MAs have gone to the trouble of coming up with alternative explanations that I feel QUITE justified in refusing to believe the Doctor ever had sex.

Still...I can just imagine the scene, Luiner.

OFFSPRING: Hello dad! I really missed you, and, of course, the lovely daughter I entrusted to your care.

DOCTOR: Oh yes, little Susan...

OFFSPRING: Susan?! What kind of name is that to call our darling Xopsetleasllzzzoyulana?

DOCTOR: Well anyway...I left her on the planet Earth, you see...

OFFSPRING: EARTH!!! Isn't that the place that's always being invaded by alien monstrosities?

DOCTOR: Yes, but don't worry...Earth isn't due another invasion for a few years - they'd just survived the Dalek one, you see -

OFFSPRING: Dalek? As in genocide, followed by absolute suppression of the survivors?

DOCTOR: Well, yes, admittedly the planet's in ruins, but don't worry, I single-handedly defeated the invasion, as usual -

OFFSPRING: Why on Gallifrey would my daughter choose to remain on such a world?

DOCTOR: [Clears throat] Um...actually she didn't exactly _choose_ to stay, I just, sort of, er, locked her out of the TARDIS and scarpered.

OFFSPRING: WHAT!!!!!!!!

DOCTOR: Look, it was for her own good. You have no idea of the perils she faced when travelling with me - interfering schoolteachers...the alien Voord...twisted ankles...not to mention the constant threat of a smacked bottom...

OFFSPRING: Aaaaaagggggghhhhh!!

DOCTOR: ...And when this bloke said he fancied her and needed her help in milking cows, well, it seemed heaven-sent...

OFFSPRING: [indecipherable choking noises]

DOCTOR: ...OK, so she'll spend a few thousand years as a widow, but, hey, it's a small price to pay for love...wait a minute...what are you doing with that staser...

The Doctor seemed very sure that he was a grandfather in Vampire Science.

Just because the NA's and MA's tried to recreate the show's history, doesn't mean we have to blindly accept them as the real thing. If we're going to rewrite history, then let's also do these things;

1. The Brigidier isn't a part of the British army, but a cunning CIA agent posing as the head of UNIT.

2. Barbara was a transvestite.

3. Ace was actually a rich, spoiled brat, who pretended to be a virtual-orphan.

4. Tegan wasn't an airline hostess, but part of the IRA on her way to blow up a plane with the Queen on it.

5. Nyssa wasn';t from Traken; she was from Pittsburgh.

Come on, people! Let's rewrite history! So what if it was said on the air, and was established in the guidelines for those that actually worked on the programme! To h**l with them, it's all ours now! Continuity be damned!

Sigh.

Okay. I've got that out of my system.
Susan is the Doctor's Granddaughter.
You got a problem with that, give Verity Lambert a call.

Thanks Emily, that got me a good laugh.

Another point, I just watched this story, and it seems to me the Doctor went back into the TARDIS in the guise of getting her shoe either repaired or replaced. Then he leaves. So now, Susan, not only destined to a life of milking cows for her boyfriend and other more back breaking farming, but she only has one shoe.

The Earth is in ruins, the technology is practically back to the stone age, and good shoes are going to be hard to come by. The least the Doctor could have done was leave her wardrobe behind, maybe a toothbrush, a first aid kit, a Swiss Army knife, a sonic screwdriver, blueprints for tractors, water purification tablets, a book on survival, a sub-ethamatic thing to flag down passing space ships or TARDIS's when she gets tired of living in the rough, oh, and some shoes.

On a different note, Susan looked very well dressed in the Five Doctors. Did she managed to escape the post Dalek Earth?

Maybe post-Dalek Earth just recovered fairly quickly. The invasion happened about two hundred years in the future; there may have been enough advanced technology left to expedite matters. We know the electronic banking system was intact because the Meddling Monk was able to make a fortune by 'waiting.' Other systems may have survived as well.

I would also think that clothing, shelter, food and water would be the primary objectives in the post-Dalek world. Perhaps enough time has passed that decent clothing and sanitation have become a standard instead of a luxury, thus Susan could look nice.

I know I'm grasping here, but I didn't sink Atlantis three times either.

Susan was considerably older in the 5 Docs than in the Dalek Invasion. Who knows how long it would take for a Time Lady to age that much? She might have outlived her husband several times over.

Come to think of it, why wasn't she allowed to stay on Gallifrey at the end of The Five Docs? Is Earth really where she belonged? If the Time Lords had settled up with The Doctor, why not Susan? She once expressed a desire to return to her own people. Perhaps Galifrey dug her up after the events of The War Games and dealt with her in some way. She didn't say she had come from Earth in the Five Docs.

Loose thoughts. Pardon me.

Now I have not idea how to explain why Troughton and Jamie aged so much by Colon Baker's period.

If they're only eating one meal a day, as the Doctor says in "The Two Doctors," that can't help.

Emily, as amusing as your script is, who's to stay Susan's parents are actually still alive?
CBC - Tegan was too short to be a flight attendant anyway.
Is Susan not resourceful enough to find a new pair of shoes? Like maybe from someone killed by the Daleks?
Doesn't Terrance Dicks' novelisation of The Five Doctors indicate Susan was taken 20 years after she was dropped off, from post-Dalek London which was rebuilding itself?
How could the Doctor leave her a sonic screwdriver when he didn't appear to have one himself at this stage of his life?
Don't know if I agree about Jamie ageing so much - a casual viewer watching The Two Doctors with me said "Is that the same actor playing Jamie?" and when I indicated it was he said "He's aged well!". Mind you there's the whole Season 6b theory we could bring up again...

CBC - great ideas!

1. I can far more easily swallow the idea that the Brig was a cunning CIA agent (I'm assuming you mean the Celestial Intervention Agency rather than the Central Intelligence Agency) than No Future's claim that he's a Buddhist. Not to mention Downtime's implication that he spent 20 years a schoolteacher. TWENTY YEARS! When he could have been shooting alien monsters instead!

2. Yes! At last an explanation for Ian and Barbara's failure to consummate their relationship during two years together in the TARDIS. Unfortunately it's just not true - read Face of the Enemy. Though come to think of it, all that time Barbara spent in hospital in order to have children might not just be referring to curing her of radiation poisoning...

3. Well, we know Ace was a brat, and we know she pretended to be a virtual orphan (screaming 'I haven't got no mum and dad, I don't need no mum and dad' despite the fact she had a mother) and I don't see why her family couldn't be rich. The rich usually have strange fads, though living in Perivale is stretching the definition of fad slightly.

4. Frankly, I would find it far more believable that a woman of Tegan's, er, spirit would be an IRA agent than that she'd choose to degrade herself by serving drinks and cooing at air passengers. And it would explain why she got sacked. But then, I've had a (deceased) grandfather, great-aunt and great-uncle in the IRA, so I wouldn't be surprised to encounter them anywhere, even in the TARDIS. And I suppose it would be little different to Jamie or Turlough's situations.

5. I don't know much about Pittsburgh, but you may well be right about Nyssa not being from Traken. Trakenittes are criminally-inclined scum who sell their souls to monsters, betray their own husbands, arm their police at the first whiff of danger, seize strangers and try to put them to death, accept bribes, and have the worse bunch of leaders I've seen since State of Decay. Whereas Nyssa was such a goody-goody. Of course, it's possible that her father was from Traken and her mysteriously dead/missing mother was from Pittsburgh.

Luiner, you're so right - it's disgraceful of the Doctor to leave Susan shoeless. Though typical. I think Sarah Jane's the only one who actually managed to pack anything when she was kicked out. And then she got a K-9 as well! Life is so unfair. But then it would have spoiled that final scene a bit - 'One day I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. In the meantime, go forward in all your beliefs and this lovely new pair of shoes.'

Chris, I'm quite sure that Susan was resourceful enough to find a new pair of shoes, but I'm also quite sure she'd have preferred to get them as a parting gift from her so-called grandfather, rather than go around looting corpses.

By the way, 'Legacy of the Daleks' claims Susan still looks like a teenager 30 years on and has to wear ageing make-up to fool everyone. I don't know how John Peel squares that with Five Doctors, but it pales into significance beside his other blasphemies.

While we're on the subject of ridiculous characters revisions, how about this one:
Jamie was actually the Doctor's intellectual superior and the true inventor of the sonic screwdriver. However, it just wouldn't do for a Companion to be smarter than the Doctor, so to keep up appearances, he pretended to have the I.Q. of Bullwinkle J. Moose.

I think I've started something here; the true nature of the companions! Emily; you've got an incredible imagination to actually make my ludicrous suggestions into near-logical explanations! I'll come up with some more, and we'll see how you can elaborate.
P.S.; actually, I did mean the Central Intelligence Agency of the U.S., but so what? I like your idea better.

Maybe the Central Intelligence Agency is actually run by the Celestial Intervention Agency. They would need some sort of cover while messing about on Earth.

Now if we can only figure out what aliens are behind the FBI, KGB & IRS.

Gordon - it makes a lot of sense. And adds a world of irony to the Doctor's comment in the Dominators: 'Just act s-t-u-p-i-d. Do you think you could manage that?'

Jamie knew he wouldn't qualify as a companion unless he was thick as two planks and wore a skirt. He could also guess how the Doctor - a slow developer who scraped through his exams with 51% on his second attempt - would react to anyone cleverer than himself.

Now we know why the sonic screwdriver suddenly appeared during the Second Doctor's tenure, and why, after its destruction, such a useful object wasn't replaced until Romana gave the Seventh Doctor one in Lungbarrow. It would also explain why the Doctor attempted to STEAL Romana's screwdriver in Horns of Nimon.

This also solves the mystery of why the Time Lords felt the need to wipe Zoe and Jamie's minds in The War Games. After all, they knew there'd be plenty of other ex-Companions wondering the universe, and didn't bother persuing them with mind-wipers. But Zoe and Jamie were the only ones with the brains to replicate Time Lord technology.

By the way...who is Bullwinkle J. Moose?

Emily, Emily, Emily. *tsk, tsk, tsk*

Bullwinkle J. Moose is one half of the famous American cartoon duo, Rocky & Bullwinkle.
(Gordon is the moderator of the R&B board here at Nitcentral.)

There is more to television than watching Doctor Who and Blakes Seven. ;-)>

Yes, there's also the X-files ;)

Please, please, don't regard me as a Blake's Seven FAN or anything...it just happens to be on UK Gold every Sunday morning before you-know-what...it's just another way of passing the endless, barren years waiting for new Who...I only tolerate it because it's by Terry Nation...Bob Holmes and Chris Boucher and Colin Baker have honoured it with their presence...*wracking brains to come up with more excuses for being unfaithful to the one and only TV programme worth watching...*

FBI = Foamasi Bloaters Incognito
KGB = Karfelon Gets Bent
IRS = I Run & Scream (job description for a companion)

EBE = Exxilons Bloody Exxilons
IRA = It's Ruddy Arcturus!
KGB = Kang Girls (Blue)
SAS = Scream and Stumble

Has anyone ever heard that radio drama Whatever happened to... Susan Foreman?

It was terrible. Jane Asher played Susan, for example.

And she is...?

Was Carole Ann Ford approached?

Somehow I rather doubt it.

In addition to acting, Jane Asher's claim to fame comes from being Paul McCartney's ex-fiancee (before Linda), and being the wife of illustrator Gerald Scarfe (Pink Floyd's "The Wall").

Thought the name rang a very vague bell.

OK, so what DID happen to Susan Foreman (according to the radio play, that is)?

The only adventure I've seen so far with Susan is the Daleks aka The Dead Planet. Is it just me or does she have a very unnatural sounding laugh (as well as laughing at inappropriate moments). One gets the feeling that she could snap at any moment.

It has to be better than what happened in Leg..

Le..ga..cy.... of

AHHHHHHHHHH

the Da...leks.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

According to the Completely Useless Encyclopedia, this is what happed in Whatever Happened To... Susan Foreman?:
"Modern-day reporters interview people involved in the story of 'time-travel girl Susan Foreman' for a program re-examining a 30-year-old scandal.
"Interviewees include Susan, Ian Chesterton, Barbara Wright, Jo Jones (nee Grant) and Claire Rayner (who advised Susan that her grandfather had no right to take her out of full-time education).
"Susan reckons the Doctor dumped her because he didn't want some girl hanging about calling him 'Grandfather' while he got off with a stream of bimbos."

The CUE goes on to say "the writer did his homework to an extent but unforgivably had Temossus survive The Daleks."
"Also, no TV people were featured. Claiming that Carole Ann Ford was asked cuts no ice with us."

And the authors give it a big 1 out of 10 on their canonicity rating.

Thanks, Chris. And there I was thinking I'd read my CUE from cover to cover...

Gordon, why SHOULDN'T Susan have an odd-sounding laugh? She's an alien, after all - it's amazing that she manages to imitate humans so well.

There, there, Edje. I wish I could think of something consoling to say about LotD, but...I can't.

At the time she played Susan, Carole Ann Ford was married and had a kid. When I found this out, I of course just couldn't believe it. I was watching the 1962 film "Day of the Triffids" recently and I totally forgot that Carole Ann Ford was in it, (seeing her name on the opening credits brought about the same feeling of excitement I got from seeing William Russell on "The Great Escape" opening credits), and I have to say that whilst Russell played it like Ian Chesterton in a different coat, Ford looked a lot less like her Doctor Who character. A lot less.

Emily, what I meant was she has the sort of laugh of a person that would make Colin Baker's Doctor seem lucid.

More on Whatever Happened To... Susan Foreman? from the Seventh Doctor Handbook (why is it this book? It's in The Wilderness Years section, chronicling events between 1989 and 1986 - this item was transmitted in 1994).

The book's authors claim Carole Ann Ford failed to return the BBC's calls. The only really interesting new bit of information is that Andrew Sachs played Temmosus Skyedron.

Yes, that's right. Manuel from Fawlty Towers himself. Keh?

Temmosus has a last name? Where will it end? Gebek Thompson and Bellal Witherspoon? Surely aliens, as a rule, don't have surnames? Didn't Adrian Rigelsford, (author of that dire The Doctors hardback, which chronicles the series without any depth and manages to miss out Season 18 completely for no good reason), write it? Oy vey!

No, it was written by an Adrian Mourby.

Just thinking about it... could Temossus have survived because of the Fourth Doctor changing the Dalek timeline in Genesis of the Daleks?

hey, Rigelsford wrote the Monsters book didn't he?
That was alright, had some cool stuff about Ice Warriors and that.
As for Susan laughing like she was insane, well, she did take to ruthlessly murdering pillows with scissors in the next story...

If Susan's got her own TARDIS now (Legacy of the Daleks) then what's she doing? Where is she? Why haven't any of the Doctors past or present bumped into her yet?

That would make a really interesting story; just imagine the possibilities.

Well, obviously none of the writers can be bothered to imagine the possibilities. Either that or they've very sensibly decided to ignore everything in Legacy of the Daleks.

A thought's just occured to me. Susan is RELATED to the Doctor. When you actually think about it, when you actually go beyond the grandfather-daughter phraseology we've come to use as second nature, Susan is part of the Doctor's family tree. It says a lot for the Gallifreyan gene pool.

Let's think about it further... Let's assume that, (let's be brutally honest), Susan is a bit $tupid and daft. She is. Let's not rubbish this theory by glossing over it with words like 'alienness' and 'mysterious'. Susan has a breezeblock for a mind. The Doctor is mind-numbingly intelligent and, (as we all know), more than just a Time Lord. So how on earth then did Susan take nothing from her forefathers? The only thing Susan has in common with the Doctor, personality-wise, is honesty and gall.

I know that the Doctor and Susan throw about the terms "grandfather" and "grand-daughter", but nowhere is it explicitly stated that they are related. Those terms could just be one of affection, like the way some kids call friends of their parents "aunt" or "uncle."

As to Susan's intelligence, I think you're mistaking her inexperience for stupidity.

Nah, they're related. The Doctor refers to her as his 'gran-daughter', and affectionate 'uncles' and 'aunties' (as you put it) don't refer to the child in question as their 'nephew' or 'neice'.
However, 'Lungbarrow' aside, just because the Doctor has a grandaughter doesn't neccesarily mean he had any children of his own - Time Lord families consist of cousins, so why not other relations, possibly termed as 'grandaughter' and 'grandfather', because their gene pools are more closely linked then 'cousin' to 'cousin' in a Time Lord family/house.

Susan could be adopted, or the Doctor could have adopted Susan's parents. Both would explain why they use those terms without resorting to biological reasons.

I speak from experience; I'm adopted, and I call my adopted parent's parents "Grandma" and "Grandpa."

I think when it comes to Susan everybody gets all weak in the knees because it would mean that the Doctor had (oh my Davros, NNNOOOOOOO!!!!!) intercourse with a female! As much as I love the novels, and respect their creativity to further the Who Universe, Susan will always be (to me, myself, and I) the product of the Doctor's son or daughter. Susan was intelligent enough in 'An Unearthly Child' to confuse Ian and Barbara about her knowledge, but it was the result of a limited education, having left Gallifrey and the Academy far behind. Given time, she could evolve into someone of Romana's intelligence.

Actually, CBC, since this is science fiction, child does not equal sex. Susan could be the offspring of the Doctor's clone, or some sort of artificial biological construct, and so on. Or, as I've said above, she could simply be adopted.

Or simply be his grandaughter

Luke, I've never understood the Messiah Complex some Whovians have about the Doctor having once reproduced.

Come on, birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it, but state that the Doctor did it and some Whovians want to nail you to a cross.

I think Susan is the Doctor's biological grandaughter.

William Hartnell himself proposed a Son Of Doctor Who story.

However reproduction doesn't necesarily mean two people having sex. For all we know from the TV show (I don't read the novels & don't care about that nonsense with Looms and whatever.) the Gallifreyans may even reproduce asexually, like amoeba.

Here, here, Keith. However, since Gallifreyans look like humans (and apparently cross breed easily with humans according to the eighth doctor, they probably use simple, easy to do, heterosexual sex. The Doctor was probably sitting at bar, when a nice woman sat next to him. He ordered her a drink, the drink led to a dinner, the dinner led further dates, maybe even some exploratory premarital or preloom sex, found they had much in common and couldn't live without each other, and next thing you know it is Death or the next Regeneration do us Part. Kids came along, then grandkids, then great grandkids, then great great grandkids, each of them regenerating, and wow, there could be alot of timelords out there. Maybe the entire Timelord population of Gallifrey is somehow related or descended from the Doctor.

Good thing he didn't marry Romana then...

Leaving aside the question of whether Susan is the Doctor's biological granddaughter (over my dead body!) and getting back to the question of her intelligence...Mike, I really don't think it's just a matter of lack of experience. Susan grew up in the most advanced civilisation in the universe, and she really ought to have picked up SOME useful information, however young she is (and I'm assuming she IS the teenager she looked and acted as, rather than a 90-year-old or anything). Even young, inexperienced Vicki managed to pull off a real technological achievement once (in The Space Museum) but I don't remember Susan doing likewise.

Sure, Susan lived in the great Timelord Civilization. She probably passed the time studying and learning about the great civilizations, as well as the flora and fauna of other planets. But it doesn't compare well with actual experience.

Let's take me, for example. I may live in the current empire of the world. The US is certainly the most advanced technological superpower at this moment. Now I have read stuff about how to light a fire without matches, or how to build a shelter with local materials, but if I were stuck all of a sudden in the jungles of the Amazon with nothing more than what I am wearing currently, natives shooting poison darts at me, and very large wild animals thinking I might make a good appetizer...well, then, I would probably need to change my underwear fairly quickly. Provided I survived.

The US is the technological superpower...? What about Japan?

Gee, with Japan still climbing out of a recession, I haven't really thought about it. Still, technologically or otherwise, Japan is by no means a superpower. Japan may have an edge when it comes to computer hardware and robotics, they seem to fall behind in most other areas of science.

But I love my Japanese Iiyama 19'' computer monitor. I love my Technics stereo system, the Toshiba DVD player, Sony and Sharp VCR's, and Sharp TV (though come to think of it, many of the components of this equipment was probably made in Korea). And I would sure like to get my hands on a Sony Playstation 2. They are so much in demand this holiday season that I could sell one for 11000 dollars (that is not a typo, seriously 11000 dollars for what essentially is a regular Playstation that can play DVD's).

Go figure.

I was watching the Five Doctors on TV recently that PBS so grudgingly allowed to be shown (apparently the pledge drive to bring back Dr Who was more successful than they had planned on) when I realized that I have no idea how Susan made it to Gallifrey. I don't remember her being time scooped at all. Now admittedly, I might have a given the bathroom a visit and missed it, but I have it on video, and I have no idea how she got there. What is more puzzling is that she left the Tower with the First Doc, as though that was natural. Considering they have probably not seen each other in decades, why were they considered part of the same timeline?

No, there was no scene of Susan being scooped. I expect the budget didn't stretch to depicting twenty-second century Earth, even for two minutes. The novelisation described it, though, if that's any consolation.

Susan had to leave with ONE of the Doctors, and the first was the obvious choice. What's a few decades between Time Lords?

By CBC on Monday, October 04, 1999 - 03:56 pm:

2. Barbara was a transvestite.

I keep having silly ideas to write a story or book or whatever where one of the regulars is revealed to have been transgendered of some description. (I guess, realistically, it's not like the Doctor's going to care one way or another if he finds out Liz started off as a girl trapped in a boy's body or something... OK, I'll stop that now.)

More seriously, as for the grandfather issue, I've flip-flopped on the notion quite a bit myself over time, but I think I would have rather it was left up in the air (and therefore for the viewer/reader to decide) than the neck-breaking loops Lungbarrow went through to reassure everyone that the Doctor hadn't procreated the old-fashioned way.

I keep having silly ideas to write a story or book or whatever where one of the regulars is revealed to have been transgendered of some description.

Obviously Kate Orman reads this board, nicked your idea, and created Chick as one of those one-story-only companions in Blue Box. Sadly Blue Box is extremely boring but hey, it's not Chick's fault.

I think I would have rather it was left up in the air (and therefore for the viewer/reader to decide) than the neck-breaking loops Lungbarrow went through to reassure everyone that the Doctor hadn't procreated the old-fashioned way.

Nooooooooooo no no no! No reassurances are too neck-breaking on this particular issue!

So... is there anything- anything WHATSOEVER- other than a fan-based 'ewww, cooties' preference/mania (and this Lungbarrow/loom nonsense, but I'm asking in the televised, canononical Who) that gives a reason for this reproduction aversion? Because I can't think of any other character in the history of TV or film- save for perhaps a historical film where real-world data conflicts with the portrayal- that would have a granfather/grandaughter relationship and yet people would go to any lengths to assume it was not a biological one.

As far as I'm concerned, the jury's already deliberated. Between the logical assumption attached to the terms grandfather/grandaughter, the references in the new series to the Doctor's wedding, etc., and the fact that Tennant's innuendos about the queen imply he's no virgin anyhow, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that the Doctor once married, had at least one child, and has a biological grandaughter in Susan.

Case closed, unless there's any real EVIDENCE to contradict it. :-)


As for the character of Susan... well, not much to say. She was a tad grating at times, but once she left, I missed her.

So... is there anything- anything WHATSOEVER- other than a fan-based 'ewww, cooties' preference/mania (and this Lungbarrow/loom nonsense, but I'm asking in the televised, canononical Who) that gives a reason for this reproduction aversion?

Nope, it's purely an 'ewww, uggg, SEX!!!!!!!!!!!!' thing. For me, anyway.

Though if you want evidence, there IS some, albeit of a rather negative variety: if the Doctor DOES engage in such disgusting activities, how come he NEVER has in the 47/900 years WE'VE known him....?

Casandra said that the new-to-her body parts were 'so rarely used.' Not 'never.'

Troughton did talk about having and missing a family in Tomb. That doesn't necessarily entail sexual reproduction, but it does suggest it more than it does looms or cloning or anything else.

Tennant claimed twice to be a father. Eccleston said he knew the feeling when the hospital doctor in Empty Child said he was once a father and a grandfather and now neither.

The mysterious woman on Gallifrey in Tennant's swansong.

Beyond that, not much.

On the other side, many cultures on Earth use the word 'grandfather' (or rather their translation equivalent) for any elderly person, not just blood relations, although English generally doesn't, except in a nicknamey sort of way.

So no real evidence one way or the other. Certainly in 1963 no one had any reason to doubt a blood relationship between Susan and the Doctor. It's only the accumulation of the old-series Doctor's asexuality that had anyone reaching for it. The new series threw this into reverse gear of course.

"The mysterious woman on Gallifrey in Tennant's swansong." - Kevin

Yeah... still waiting on that one... (Maybe she'll turn out to be the 'silence falls' mystery voice?) ;-)

Casandra said that the new-to-her body parts were 'so rarely used.' Not 'never.'

Well, at THAT particular point in time, this Doc DEFINITELY hasn't had the chance to have sex. Unless he and Jackie got really drunk on Christmas pudding brandy and - no, not going there.

Certainly in 1963 no one had any reason to doubt a blood relationship between Susan and the Doctor.

Yeah, but then everyone in the 60s were TOTALLY sex-obsessed freaks!

It's only the accumulation of the old-series Doctor's asexuality that had anyone reaching for it. The new series threw this into reverse gear of course.

Yeah *sigh* nice summary.

It's lucky the new series is the greatest thing in the history of the universe or I'd be SERIOUSLY upset about that...

Of course, the new series (well, School Reunion and Eleventh Hour, anyway) strongly implies that if there IS anything sexual going on, it's between the Doctor and his TARDIS...

"The mysterious woman on Gallifrey in Tennant's swansong." - Kevin

Yeah... still waiting on that one...

She's the Doctor's mum! It says so in The Writer's Tale: The Final Chapter so it must be true!

Except that that's totally uncanonical and OF COURSE the Doctor doesn't have a mum (human, Time Lady or otherwise).

(Maybe she'll turn out to be the 'silence falls' mystery voice?) ;-)}

She's good. The Voice is evil. It seems unlikely.

Well if she's his mum, why didn't they make that explicit? All it would have taken was a reverse shot of the Doctor whispering, 'mother...'

I'm well aware of the power of ambiguity but it didn't work here.

I thought it worked rather well. Since it's not spelled out, Moffett can make her anything he wants later, even his first wife.

Why do so many people assume the old-series Doctor is asexual?-I get a very different feel from it.

Here's my take:

First Doctor:

Susan-only person in the show to call the Doctor grandfather-if it's a honorific or a term of endearment--why does no one else use it?

Second Doctor:

Not many stories left here-but I can see the rivalry between him and Zoe leading this way(and something causes me to wonder about his friendship with Jamie).

Third Doctor:

Jo Grant-can you give me another reason to keep this airhead around?

Sarah Jane Smith-She's a liberated woman of the early to mid-seventies, I have no problem beleiving something happened during the boring,long flights we didn't see(and if you count New Who as a continuation(as compared to a reboot) her reaction to Rose answers that.

Fourth Doctor:

Both Leela and Romana 2 are far too comfortable with him-I can't beleive nothing was going on.

Fifth Doctor:

Tegan:see Jo Grant

Sixth Doctor:

As CB has claimed that one of the reasons he was fired had to do with people thinking there was fooling aroung going on in thr tardis- I have no problem believing this one(poor Peri).

Mel-see Jo Grant

Seventh Doctor:

Ace-with the way these two bickered-I have no problem seeing something going on. Also-there has to be some reason the novels seen intent on her doing every man in the universe(I still listen for the tardis so I can take my turn).

Eighth Doctor:

With only one story existing-no way to say.

This is my take-others may see it differently.

Carole Ann Ford is 70 - scary, isn't it. Only seems like yesterday that she needed a jolly good smacked bottom.

Please-after my last post-don't get me thinking about Susan's bottom.

Boy, do I need a cold shower.

I thought it worked rather well. Since it's not spelled out, Moffett can make her anything he wants later, even his first wife.

God, I hope not. Even the telemovie didn't claim that the Doctor married his mum.

Anyway, I didn't think it worked well at all. There was no explanation of how she kept popping up to talk to Wilf, or what on Earth she was hoping to achieve. And then there's the fact that the Doctor didn't bat an eyelid about sending his mother/wife/whatever back to hell. What a git.

Not many stories left here-but I can see the rivalry between him and Zoe leading this way

Said rivalry was entirely cerebral.

(and something causes me to wonder about his friendship with Jamie).

They WERE very close. In an entirely platonic manner.

Jo Grant-can you give me another reason to keep this airhead around?

The Third Doctor is a male chauvinist pig who keeps an airhead around to look superior. He told SARAH JANE to make him tea, for god's sake. (And even Liz and the Brig realised this - 'What you need, Doctor, as Miss Shaw herself so often remarked, is someone to pass you your test-tubes and tell you how brilliant you are. Miss Grant will fulfil that function admirably.')

Sarah Jane Smith-She's a liberated woman of the early to mid-seventies, I have no problem beleiving something happened during the boring,long flights we didn't see(and if you count New Who as a continuation(as compared to a reboot) her reaction to Rose answers that.

I have to admit that - whilst there's NO SIGN WHATSOEVER of any hanky-panky during Sarah Jane's actual era...School Reunion certainly drops EXTREMELY heavy hints to that effect. Though SJA: Secrets of the Stars specifically says it WASN'T a romance.

Both Leela and Romana 2 are far too comfortable with him-I can't beleive nothing was going on.

The Doctor sleeping with Leela would be even more like beastiality than him sleeping with a slightly more...well...educated human.

He and Romana, admittedly seem extremely happy in each other's company. Not that he lifted a finger to keep her when the Time Lords demanded her back.

Tegan:see Jo Grant

The reason Five kept Tegan around was - despite all her protestations to the contrary - he just couldn't get rid of her. And he certainly TRIED (see Timeflight).

As CB has claimed that one of the reasons he was fired had to do with people thinking there was fooling aroung going on in thr tardis- I have no problem believing this one(poor Peri).

Stuff n'nonsense. HARTNELL makes a more likely seducer than Colin.

Mel-see Jo Grant

Oh, please. His reasons for keeping the carrot-loving banshee around were a simple matter of predestination.

Also-there has to be some reason the novels seen intent on her doing every man in the universe(I still listen for the tardis so I can take my turn).

Might I remind you that Ace's numerous boyfriends have an unpleasant habit of ending up DEAD?

And if she WAS sleeping with the Doctor she wouldn't need all those other men. (Alright, so Rose managed to date the Doctor, Captain Jack, and Mickey simultaneously, but then she wasn't actually having sex with any of them.)

With only one story existing-no way to say.

Though it has to be admitted that the Eighth Doctor seemed...rather keener on such matters than hitherto. And Interference would make a lot more sense if he and I M Foreman HAD...oh, never mind.

This is my take-others may see it differently.

THAT'S putting it mildly.

Carole Ann Ford is 70 - scary, isn't it.

Scary, ridiculous AND utterly impossible.

Though I suppose she MIGHT have been 70 all along. She IS a Time Lord. How old did Ten say he was when he was just a kid, looking at the Medusa Cascade...?

"How old did Ten say he was when he was just a kid, looking at the Medusa Cascade...?" - Emily
90, I think? But then I was never known for my memory... :-)

Carole Ann Ford is 70-Susan will always be the same unearthly child we all love(if you don't believe me put in a story-nope,hasn't aged a day.

Emily-are you thinking about what I'm saying, or is this a kneejerk reaction on the topic of Sex in the Tardis??

Remember-Doctor Who is a childrens program, you can't show much, it has to be subtle or it gets cut out(how New Who is getting away with what it does is beyond me).

Zoe and Jamie-can you give me any reasons to support this claim?

Sarah Jane-I wasn't talking romance,I was talking sex. About the SJA reference-can you imagine the uproar ther would have been if Liz had said "I feel that, as a liberated woman,Sarah had relations with either or both of the 2 Doctors I worked with"? I think the outcry would still be going on for Who's 100 year celebration.

Don't dis Leela, she may not be as educated as some others-but she is a child of the survey team, a group that would be picked from mankinds best, and culled by the most demanding system I've seen-I would expect her to have a higher I.Q. than either of us.

Ramona:you're right-when the timelords wanted her returned he didn't argue, he just stumbled into E-space, stayed just long enough for her to find a place,then found his way home. And did you notice how long it took the only person who said he could go back for her to die?

Jo Grant,Tegan,Mel:outside of Ian and Barbara-has the Doctor ever had trouble ditching anyone he doesn't want in the tardis(Susan,was it Dodo or Polly who was left without even a goodbye,Sarah Jane, Captain Jack,and Adam all come to mind).The fact is:if he wants them gone-they're gone.

As for Colin: I'm sorry-but I'm not the one who said it; I don't like it anymore than you do.

Ace: as I've said elsewhere-I don't see the books as canon; but something had to put Ace's "activities" in the authors little minds-and with only the Doctor and Ace in the tardis at the time-I don't see many other options.

Remember also:while James Kirk has quite a reputation in the original Star Trek-we can only prove 1 or 2 incidents.

was it Dodo or Polly who was left without even a goodbye
Dodo, And Liz while we're at it. The Doctor did say he'd miss her but only because he thought he was leaving.

There is a rash of Susan/8th Doctor adventures coming out from Big Finish, starting in December with the non-subscriber release of the current subscriber only release, An Earthly Child, set post Dalek Invasion of Earth, along with a prequel Companion Chronicle title, Quinnis, set before An Unearthly Child, and another 2-3 Susan/8th Doctor stories following in early 2011...

For god's sake, what IS the sudden obsession with dusting off ancient Companions and dragging 'em into the audios? A decades-older Nyssa AND Jamie AND Susan? AND mixing n'matching their Doctors - well, I suppose that's one way of dealing with a Doc being DEAD.

Carole Anne Ford did not pass for a 15 year old. Look at a real 15 year old girl. Even when dolled up to the nines they would look significantly younger than Ford.

Well, it doesn't matter that much, I suppose. After all, Susan isn't really fifteen. (Well, I HOPE she isn't, anyway. That would make her, what, all of sixteen when the Doc used her crush as an excuse to dump her on a Dalek-devastated alien world.)

And anyone who's met Susan for more than five minutes would know she was a total weirdo for reasons far more important than looking a bit old for her age...

TARDIS Eruditorum:

'The Problem of Susan...as a character, she destabilizes the narrative in some significant ways. When she's present, she prevents the Doctor from quite acting Doctorly because he has to treat her as his primary concern' - ECCY managed to be SUPREMELY Doctorly while weighing Rose against the future of Earth...just sayin'...

'The Doctor's response to Susan's taking the initiative is to infantilize her, marginalize her, and declare her input to be worthless. Susan responds to this, basically, by completely caving and renouncing her efforts to be independent. And with that scene, basically, she's over as a character' - I don't remember this from The Sensorites (mind you, I don't remember MUCH from The Sensorites) but if it IS the case, that would totally mesh with the male chauvinist, static, elder-dominated, Gallifrey we see in later stories.

'The Doctor is unable to allow Susan to be an interesting character because, in some sense, this detracts from his own vision of himself. If she is not subservient to him, she is useless to him' - interesting point but again, what exactly are you COMPLAINING about? This fits in with the treatment of females for the majority of human history, never mind Gallifreyan...

'As a culture, we find the idea of women in danger to be erotic...And so whenever Susan is put in the vulnerable granddaughter position she is sexualized...And whenever she's put in a position to take charge and do things, she is sexualized because she is made into an adult. Susan, in other words, is caught in a Catch-22' - I'm not convinced. BARBARA is the one who's always being threatened with rape - and when is Susan EVER in a position of authority?

'Susan, defined by the tension between the desire for home and the desire for escape, is incompatible with the Doctor, who desires only endless escape' - I disagree; the Doctor is just as conflicted - look at him yearning to return home in The Massacre. Hell, look at all three New Who Doctors yearning for the Gallifrey THEY BLEW UP.

Reign of Terror:

'I know it's hard to say goodbye' - funny that NONE of the four of 'em even THINK that maybe Susan should leave with Ian and Barbara? SHE was kidnapped too, after all, having INSISTED that she was going to stay at Coal Hill.

'You can't go on being lucky. Things catch up with you' - a very sensible attitude. Funny more Companions don't say such things.

'My head's splitting and my back's aching' - neither of which should stop you RUNNING FOR YOUR LIFE, moron. Ditto for the fact you gave up digging to escape cos of some rats. Any PROPER Old Who Companion worth her salt should have been so used to cells that she'd've looked on the rats as a tasty treat.

Why does Susan get ill? I mean, when has ANY Companion got ill (Dodo's cold was already incubating when she stepped aboard the TARDIS), let alone a Gallifreyan one?

Why does the Doctor describe Susan as a 'young child'? She might be by Gallifreyan standards (in which case it's rather worrying that he's forcibly marrying her off a couple of stories later) but to an eighteenth-century French person she's surely a grown woman?

Why does Susan's hair go weirdly Barbara-like at the end?

Carole Ann Ford, the first Doctor Who girl once said: “The show (Dr. Who) ruined my career."

From "The Daily Telegraph"

Emily, in 'War Games': It's a pretty strange thing to do under any circumstances. Especially as Susan was determined to dump Granddad rather than leave that school...

If she was human, the obvious explanation would be that she had a crush on someone at the school, perhaps a fellow pupil, perhaps a teacher, but definitely not Ian, since we never saw her giving him longing looks.

Offhand, I don't recall any evidence that Susan left a crush behind, but what evidence would there be? She couldn't reasonably expect Ian or Barbara to be sympathetic to complaints about being separated from her dream boy, not when they've been separated from their entire planet, and many people don't like talking about romance with their grandparents, in case they start reminiscing.

I don't think it's likely that Susan was silently pining after her first crush, but I can't absolutely prove she wasn't, and it does explain why she wanted to stay at Coal Hill.

Anyway, while staying so long at Coal Hill undoubtedly a strange thing to do, it's slightly less strange if it's years rather than months since the Doctor and Susan left Gallifrey, because then it would feel like just a short break from their travels. A year is a long time to0 a 15-year-old human, but to a century old Time Lord who's spent the last 25 years touring the universe, a year would be practically no time at all.

People do have a tendency to want to spend time around people of their own age.

Assuming, of course, that Susan actually was a teenager, rather than some where between 25-100 as some fan theories would have it.

People do have a tendency to want to spend time around people of their own age.

Around people their own mental age, not physical.

Romana was comfortably over retirement age, by human standards, but she didn't want to hang around with human pensioners, nor would she have fitted in with them. Unlike them, she is brimming with youthful vigour, and in her physical prime.

The same logic applies to Susan. If she was just approaching biological maturity then she'd have more in common with human teenagers, undergoing that same transition, than with humans her actual age.

If she was human, the obvious explanation would be that she had a crush on someone at the school, perhaps a fellow pupil, perhaps a teacher, but definitely not Ian, since we never saw her giving him longing looks.

Amusingly enough, the plan was for Susan to have a crush on Ian. (Lola to have a crush on Cliff. Or whatever the hell they were supposed to be called in those days.) It must be the only planned romance more non-existent than Jo and Mike's.

Offhand, I don't recall any evidence that Susan left a crush behind

But if she HAD she'd surely have been as desperate to get back to that time n'place as Barbara and Ian. Whereas the 'I'll leave you to stay at Coal Hill!' thing seemed very much a one-off spur-of-the-moment threat.

and many people don't like talking about romance with their grandparents, in case they start reminiscing.

I find it difficult to picture THE DOCTOR as reminiscing about his sex-life.

All Sybil-related anecdotes aside.

People do have a tendency to want to spend time around people of their own age.

Though the only interaction we saw between Susan and her fellow pupils was them all laughing their heads off at her.

Romana was comfortably over retirement age, by human standards, but she didn't want to hang around with human pensioners

She did when they were Amelia Rumford.

Of course, we ALL did when they were Amelia Rumford.

Or Wilfred Mott.

she is brimming with youthful vigour

Romana II certainly is. It's not the first phrase I'd choose to describe Romana I.

Lola to have a crush on Cliff. Or whatever the hell they were supposed to be called in those days.

Lola ended up as Barbara, not Susan.

Biddy to have a crush on Cliff...?

I'm fairly sure it was Lola who had the crush. The Beeb weren't going to countenance a student/teacher crush in 1963. 'Waterloo Road' was still a long way off.

Honestly, I'm sure one of the fifty billion DWMs I've been ploughing through claimed there was supposed to be a love-triangle, with whatever-the-hell-Susan's-name-was having a (strictly unrequited, obviously) crush on whatever-the-fine-manly-man's-name-was and getting a bit jealous of whatever-the-female-teacher's-name-was.

As it was, of course, any teacher-on-teacher action had to be conveyed entirely via the acting (plus, of course, the Doctor Who in an Exciting Adventure With the Daleks novelisation). Don't ask me WHY, since the Production Team seemed perfectly happy with Barbara-facing-rape scenes.

Maybe they should have cast Rolf Harris as the teacher?

It's probably a good thing that they changed the male teacher's name to one that wasn't directly inspired by a celebrity (albeit one who famously doesn't have sex with anyone).

Honestly, I'm sure one of the fifty billion DWMs I've been ploughing through claimed there was supposed to be a love-triangle, with whatever-the-hell-Susan's-name-was having a (strictly unrequited, obviously) crush on whatever-the-fine-manly-man's-name-was and getting a bit jealous of whatever-the-female-teacher's-name-was.

I think the intention was more that Biddy/Mandy/Jill/Gay/Sue/Suzanne/Princess Susaan of Outer Space/etc was supposed to find Cliff/Ian a bit of "a dish" (it was the 1960s) who resents any flowering of romance between the teachers - rather than being an actual love triangle. But even this aspect got ditched, ostensibly because Anthony Coburn couldn't cope with the idea of 15 year girls having emotional lives or something.

I honestly don't know why Susan would have been so keen on remaining in that school if she didn't have some non-school related interest in it, romantic or otherwise. Being surrounded by so many (from her point of view) primitive ignorant fools day in and day out must have actually become painful after a while.

Being surrounded by so many (from her point of view) primitive ignorant fools day in and day out must have actually become painful after a while.

On the other hand, if you're living with THE DOCTOR (especially one prone to threatening you with a jolly good smacked bottom) a sense of smug superiority might be...quite pleasing.

Plus, she's probably inherited his tendency to play around with Earth girls.

Plus, she's probably inherited his tendency to play around with Earth girls.

Dear Lord, some fans have filthy minds!!!

I just meant, um, skipping around in the playground. Or whatever the teenage equivalent is.

KEITH in Ask the Matrix: Eye-Popping Facts n' Stats:

Susan sex mad... bwuh?

Captain Jack, sure, River Song, yeah, the Paternoster Gang... maybe, but Susan?

It's not like she threw Ian (or Barbara) onto the TARDIS console and screamed, "Take me! Take me now!" or appeared to be getting kinky with any old alien they came across.

Okay, she slapped fish with David, but that was presented as a monogamous thing in one story and she only, apparently, went through with it because she got locked out of the TARDIS. Hardly a defining characteristic.

Of course, you're absolutely right. No doubt I only think of Susan as sex-mad because THE DOCTOR thinks of her as so desperate for a shag that she's gotta be dumped on a Dalek-devastated world with the first bloke who slaps her over the face with a fish.

Darling Capaldi!

What's with the Susan obsession?

So Earthly Child, Relative Dimensions, Lucie Miller, To The Death and Legacy of the Daleks are all uncanonical (since he says he never went back for Susan. Despite the fact the Big Finishes were canonised by Night of the Doctor).

Despite the fact the Big Finishes were canonised by Night of the Doctor

Only the Eight Doctor's companions, strictly speaking.

Yeah, but once THAT domino has fallen, the rest swiftly follow. Charley was canonised, and SHE was Companion to the Sixth as well as the Eighth Doctor, and if all Colin's CHARLEY stories were canon, why not the REST of his, and then she appeared in Light at the End with Docs Four-Eight and numerous Companions, canonising the lot of 'em...

Space Helmet for a Cow: 'The production team managed to sell the part to [Carole Ann Ford] as a sort of cross between the synthetic alien in...A for Andromeda and [the] high-kicking judo expert in The Avengers...Perhaps alarm bells should have rung when they started measuring her up for her school uniform and saying, "Let's just have a listen to that girlie scream one more time."'

'I never felt there was any time or place that I belonged to. I've never had any real identity' - OK, what the •••• happened to that poor girl on Gallifrey?

I was explaining to a friend (the one whose sudden Hartnell-obsession has resulted in me rewatching Dalek Invasion of Earth WAY too soon after my last time) about Carol Ann Ford blaming Who for ruining her acting career, and he suggested it was 'maybe because she wasn't a very good actress.' I was SHOCKED. Also, am now wondering if this is TRUE?

She has moments that really grate on me that are all attributable to her acting. In the pilot (either version, I think) when the Doctor begins the dematerialisation, her 'Oh Grandfather, no!' is hammy. In the Daleks, she winks at the others when the Dalek with Ian inside is taking her, and I can't help thinking, 'Who the •••• winks like that?' Same story, when the Daleks ask her about the written word 'Su-San'...her burst of laughter is extremely annoying, as is her earlier burst when Barbara suggests the possibility of people being inside the Daleks.

The fact that all my grievances with her come from the first two stories (or first and third if you count the way I prefer) might suggest she got better.

Is Susan her actual name, or did she assume it when they came to Earth?

I'd say she probably made it up from some initials, but I have a hard time accepting that the first Doctor would even attempt to use her adopted Earth name. So it's probably her actual name that just happens to match an English name (the way Korean has Suzie and Eugene, etc.)

But if it DOES match her real name, what the hell's she doing USING it? Whatever happened to 'There's only one reason I would ever tell anyone my name. There's only one time I could'...?

There's only one reason I would ever tell anyone my name. There's only one time I could

Isn't that a Doctor thing exclusively?

Well, on the one hand that would be a seriously weird tradition for Our Hero to invent for himself, on the other Time Lords are wandering around spewing names about the place and whilst 'Goth' is probably a nickname, 'Romanadvoratrelundar' probably isn't...

I also took that as a Doctor-only thing. Renegades chose to take on nicknames, all with the definite article. (Good thing Runcible didn't go rogue. Would be rather embarrassing to see the Doctor battle The Fatuous.)

I still think the Doctor's actual name is 'God' or 'Creator' or somesuch. I don't mean to conjure any Abrahamic notion of Godhood, just the possibility that we live in some universe which the Doctor created.

1. Silver Nemesis hinted as much, though chickened out of actually saying it.

2. The eleventh Doctor rebooted the universe.

3. Why would a Gallifreyan name like Borusa, Goth or Rodan be such a well-guarded secret? It would only have meaning to other Gallifreyans.

4. It's why xe goes around fixing it.

Arguments against:
Gallifrey is very much in our universe, barring post-Time War events. Like it or not (not), we've seen the Doctor as a child growing up in our universe. I guess that in order to perform maintenance, he had to enter it, and for whatever reason, that entailed him being a child and perhaps a baby.

I also took that as a Doctor-only thing.

Hartnell fancied himself as a bit of a pioneer amongst his own people but he still had no reason to make up some crazy 'There's only one time I can tell anyone my name!' law.

Well, unless he thought his name would bring the Time Lords down on him, the way it seems he felt just using the words 'Time Lords' would. Though that wouldn't explain why TENNANT still felt that way.

we live in some universe which the Doctor created

Nope, it was that Terminus anti-matter spaceship.

Why would a Gallifreyan name like Borusa, Goth or Rodan be such a well-guarded secret? It would only have meaning to other Gallifreyans.

Presumably they're nicknames too. Like Theta Sigma.

I guess that in order to perform maintenance, he had to enter it, and for whatever reason, that entailed him being a child and perhaps a baby.

Well, THAT certainly has precedent. However ridiculous it is to think of a God in a nappy. At least Our Hero hasn't got himself nailed to a tree yet, though obviously that would be a doddle compared to Heaven Sent...

Perhaps the First Doctor used the name "Susan" for Ian and Barbara's benefit.

Well anyway, hello from Heathrow Airport.

Perhaps the First Doctor used the name "Susan" for Ian and Barbara's benefit.

Well, not just for them, putting 'Has no name and lives in a junkyard' on her school application form might have looked...suspicious.

Well anyway, hello from Heathrow Airport.

You got the hell out of Korea as soon as Trump landed there? Good move. I'd suggest meeting up only unfortunately I temporarily moved to Oxford to look after my mother. (It turns out I don't put my money where my mouth is when it comes to euthanasia, DAMMIT.)

Alas it was just a layover while en route to Leuven.

Well, not just for them, putting 'Has no name and lives in a junkyard' on her school application form might have looked...suspicious.

Indeed it would. Someone doing that today may as well write down "Hello, I'm a terrorist."

Someone doing that today may as well write down "Hello, I'm a terrorist."

Yes, but Susan and the first Doctor are white so they won't be seeing the inside of one of those CIA torture prisons

The Celestial Intervention Agency?

Was Shada a torture prison?

Was Shada a torture prison?

And was Salyavin's personality and mannerisms part of the torture methods employed?

Carole Ann Ford in The Great St Trinian's Train Robbery (1966):
https://imgur.com/a/CtDXimd

https://www.deviantart.com/gaiamix/art/the-Three-Meme-Queens-556517499

This is old but I thought Ford might be the second Susan regeneration.

Blimey, it never crossed my mind once in all these decades that Susan might not be...the First Susan.

Coming to Who by unconventional means definitely gives you a whole new perspective.

In a world where the current Doctor Who is'nt that well loved and the actual show might go kaput soon, and where the brony ****post fandom still exists and might create new memes, it might become the conventional way.

Also, I never join fandoms the conventional way. It's almost always a: find them on the Internet > read a lot about them > start to dream them > have fanart\fanfic ideas > actually watching\playing the source material.

A big part of it is that often actually watching\playing the source material is difficult to me. Because I'd find it too fast.

I thought that she could be a second regeneration because I thought that Carole looks more like Troughton than Hartnell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAeKWiOZF_g

Saya Scarlet for next Susan, anyone?

Too happy.

Susan deserves to be happy!

She deserves a regen episode and propably will get one.

Alas poor Susan. All the people the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Doctors are grieving together - Rose, River Song, Sarah Jane, ADRIC - and she doesn't get a look-in. Though presumably they lost her in the Time War (she was certainly off fighting it in the audios, last I heard) which is a lot more recent a loss than Adders and Capaldi was mildly obsessed by her, so you can't blame the passage of time/multiple regenerations for THEIR GRANDDAUGHTER just slipping the old men's memories...