This is the first book to mention the Old Ones, innit?

Do you mean that subsequent books mention the Old Ones? I'd assumed that they slid into much-deserved obscurity.

No, plenty of books mentioned the Old Ones. Also called, the Great Old Ones, in White Darkness Cthulu, the leader, is trying to return to the universe.
Millenial Rites, All-Consuming Fire and Christmas on a Rational Planet, among others, all mention the Great Old Ones, which include; Shub-Niggurath (the mother of the Nestene Consciousness), The Lloiger (the Animus), Hastur the Unspeakable (Fenric), The Gods of Ragnarok, Yog-Sothoth (the Great Intelligence) and Dagon, Azathoth, plus several others.

Blimey. Some of these names are ringing bells, but which book is crazy enough to start talking about the Nestene's mum?

Probably All-Consuming Fire or Millenial Rites. Both of which I haven't read or got access to.

The Old Ones figure quite prominently in "The Taking of Planet 5."

Good god, do they? I usually have such a good memory for books, but in the case of tToP5 I can only remember over-excitable TARDISes, the death of the Borad, the Doctor breaking his own wrist, and a lot of snow. And the thing that _eats_ the thing that eats death, of course. At least, I remember that phrase, even if I don't actually remember anything about the monster in question.

They were different old ones though, generated by a fiction generator. Or something.

True, but they were based on Lovecraft's Old Ones. In fact, they strongly resembled the illustrations of them from Barlowe's Guide to Extraterrestrials.

Finally read this. I was set up to be disappointed as soon as I discovered it featured zombies (or zombis, as McIntire rather pedantically insists). Of all the supernatural creatures, zombies are, to me, the most worthless. They can't think for themselves, they move slight faster that an octagenarian with a broken hip, and they smell. Countless Italian zombie movies have taught us that one shot to the head usually stops them, but most hapless characters insist on gut shots. Personally, I don't understand why you don't shoot their legs off, so they can't walk after you.

Ace's closing reaction was ridiculous. If she's been a soldier for over three years, she's bound to have been in plenty of situations where she had to shoot someone. And she certainly had cause to kill Richmann; he'd just shot's Ace's friend, and was about to shoot her. Why the attack of conscience?

The "I only have one key to the TARDIS so we're stuck here" routine is so old its got gray hair. Doesn't the Doctor have a spare hidden above the doorway? And why, why, WHY doesn't he automatically give his companions keys? He's been travelling with Benny for about a year, and with Ace for longer than that. Surely somewhere around his first regeneration he must have realized one needs to have a backup.

Finally, there were too many characters in this book, a common problem with Who novels. Why go to all the work to create the US Marine character, only to have him blown up for no good reason? Ditto the U-Boat captian, and several of the Haitians.

"Why go to all the work to create the US Marine character, only to have him blown up for no good reason? Ditto the U-Boat captian, and several of the Haitians."

I think it's done to gain the reader's sympathy. He's trying to attach you to the characters so that you feel something when they go, or he's trying to shock you by maybe making you think that these characters are going to be important... having said that, it's not really something I enjoy in novels. I find it annoying.

plenty of books mentioned the Old Ones. Also called, the Great Old Ones, in White Darkness Cthulu, the leader, is trying to return to the universe.
Millenial Rites, All-Consuming Fire and Christmas on a Rational Planet, among others, all mention the Great Old Ones, which include; Shub-Niggurath (the mother of the Nestene Consciousness), The Lloiger (the Animus), Hastur the Unspeakable (Fenric), The Gods of Ragnarok, Yog-Sothoth (the Great Intelligence) and Dagon, Azathoth, plus several others.

Huh. They were from before, or after, this universe existed, weren't they. Wonder how they fit in with the Doctor's astonishment in Satan Pit that there WAS anything before this universe.

They were different old ones though, generated by a fiction generator. Or something.

True, but they were based on Lovecraft's Old Ones.

So were the ones in Seventh Doctor audio Lurkers at Sunlight's Edge. And THEY were real enough. How many types of Old Ones ARE there?

Of all the supernatural creatures, zombies are, to me, the most worthless. They can't think for themselves, they move slight faster that an octagenarian with a broken hip, and they smell. Countless Italian zombie movies have taught us that one shot to the head usually stops them, but most hapless characters insist on gut shots.

Ah yes. Like Torchwood in Bay of the Dead. *Shakes head despairingly*

Ace's closing reaction was ridiculous. If she's been a soldier for over three years, she's bound to have been in plenty of situations where she had to shoot someone. And she certainly had cause to kill Richmann; he'd just shot's Ace's friend, and was about to shoot her. Why the attack of conscience?

Because hanging round with the universe's most genocidal pacifist has seriously screwed her up?

The "I only have one key to the TARDIS so we're stuck here" routine is so old its got gray hair. Doesn't the Doctor have a spare hidden above the doorway? And why, why, WHY doesn't he automatically give his companions keys?

A question I find myself constantly asking these days with Eleven, Amy and Rory.

Surely somewhere around his first regeneration he must have realized one needs to have a backup.

Though at least during his first regeneration he could MAKE a new TARDIS key if he lost one.

Finally, there were too many characters in this book, a common problem with Who novels. Why go to all the work to create the US Marine character, only to have him blown up for no good reason? Ditto the U-Boat captian, and several of the Haitians.

I think it's done to gain the reader's sympathy. He's trying to attach you to the characters so that you feel something when they go, or he's trying to shock you by maybe making you think that these characters are going to be important... having said that, it's not really something I enjoy in novels. I find it annoying.

Though it REALLY works on TV sometimes. Rita from God Complex springs to mind.

Bookwyrm:

'The Doctor learned his hypnotism skills from "a very good teacher", who is absolutely, clearly and completely meant to be the Master....except that we'll later find out...that the Master essentially earned hypnotism in [The Dark Path]' - yeah, but who can blame anyone for ignoring David A McIntee's ridiculous origins-of-the-Master's-evil book? Even *drumroll* David A McIntee himself?

*Pause* Actually, he wrote this first, didn't he. In which case, you can't blame anyone for forgetting what was said in White Darkness, cos, y'know...it's White Darkness.

'It's ironic that the most lifelike thing on the cover is the corpse' - *checks* blimey, you're not exaggerating.