Maybe they're used to waiting for bus or the
train,which for lot of people CAN feel like an
eternity!

Can't get over the idea of fierce warrior
florist TURTLES!

Obviously someone was oding on Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles when they wrote it!

Yes, you've got a point. Snatched up and abandoned on an alien planet? Viciously attacked by turtles? Frozen in time? Abandoned by Mr Compassionate Universe-Saver himself? Well, it's better than waiting for a bloody train!

From what I can gather, Daniel O'Mahoney likes his comics. Lawrence Miles loves his constant references.

LIAR!

This book contains possibly the most groan inducing pun in the entire Who canon.

"I heard you'd died and had really bad halitosis".
"Rumours of my breath have been greatly exaggerated".

Overall it's an obvious first novel which, like a lot of first-time ones, falls apart on a re-reading.

Oh, great. Is it just me or does basing-the-Easter-Special-on-The-Highest-Science-of-all-rubbish-novels suggest a little bottom-of-the-barrel scraping?

I mean, what the hell's wrong with Dead Romance instead?

Of course, according to RTG it's only the BEGINNING of Planet of the Dead that's based on this book. But then He IS a pathological liar, worship Him.

I told myself it couldn't possibly be as boring as I remembered. I told myself that it's GARETH ROBERTS, the Living God, the only TV-Who regular whose work has a 100% love-it-more-than-life-itself rate.

Obviously I should have stopped telling myself stupid things and just trusted my judgement. Cos it really IS that boring. Took me over two months to finish the wretched thing – every line needed rereading several times because my mind just slid away from the tedium. And for what? The whole thing's ENTIRELY POINTLESS.

'Mr Peploe considered himself to be the exception to the rule that one gains tolerance with age' - how could it possibly have become a generally-accepted idea that people gained TOLERANCE with AGE instead of becoming bitter old biddies?

Why does Rosheen programme the computer to delay Sheldukher's awakening by only an hour? What use is that?

'Rosheen's criminal ambitions stretched only to money-making, with the occasional necessity of murder, and the notion of somebody who wiped out entire systems for kicks...seemed risible.' – whatever happened to 'the crime [Rosheen] had committed cost the lives of millions, left to starve after the collapse of the central markets' a couple of pages earlier?

'Alcohol was one of the three luxury items she had been unable to find a supply of in the TARDIS (the others being weaponry and duvets)' – weapons are a LUXURY? The TARDIS doesn't have DUVETS?

'His rubbery features, which could run up any expression from simpleton to demigod' – well, I guess they can in the books. Not always so successfully on-screen.

'She wondered, not for the first time, if the TARDIS was supposed to have six operators rather than one' – how exceedingly smart of her.

How did the Chelonians know the humans were the 'Eight Twelves'? (Of course, I could easily have missed something, what with my brain repeatedly making a break for it.)

What's with the disappearing hatstand?

'He always seems so much more relaxed outside the TARDIS, she thought. As if something about his beloved ship made him nervous' – since WHEN!

'When do I get to meet some monsters?' 'Never, hopefully' – I don’t know which is weirder – Benny WANTING to meet monsters (the Hoothi weren't enough for her?) or the Doctor thinking for ONE MICROSECOND that she had a iceberg's chance in hell of avoiding them.

'Attempts to move the blue wooden object had proved fruitless' – WHY? Everyone ELSE from UNIT blokes to Marshmen can move it.

'He could only hope that his Chelonian captors...hadn't cut off his legs or anything. After all, it would take ages to grow another pair' – I'm sorry, is McCoy within fifteen hours of his regeneration cycle? I THINK NOT.

It's INCREDIBLY STUPID of the Doctor to destroy the humans' only means of defence against the Chelonians, and it's INCREDIBLY STUPID of Vanessa and Hazel to trust him a) during said destruction and b) afterwards.

'That was the trouble with Sheldukher, she decided. He seemed so ordinary, so harmless. He was almost fun to be with at times' – I find THAT hard to believe. NO ONE in this book is fun to be with, let alone a planet-destroyer.

'The Doctor gave a deep sigh. It was easy to forget sometimes that the rest of the universe, particularly the human part of it, did not operate on the basis of his own clear-cut standards' – his WHAAAAAAAAAAAAT!

'Why had he never got round to building another sonic screwdriver?' – er...QUITE.

Since when has the Doctor cursed? OR reeled off various strategies under his breath?

'A glittery nimbus formed about him, the normally invisible shield of his Time Lord otherness' – the WHAT of his WHAT!

'Bernice was horrified. "Can't we do anything to save them?"' – which bits of they were just trying to kill you and they'll be blown to smithereens in ten minutes anyway is she somehow failing to grasp?

'Oh well, Doctor. It's been nice knowing you. Hope to see you on the other side. Just think, we'll be able to meet each other's parents' – since when has Benny believed in an Afterlife? Since when has Benny wanted to meet the Doctor's parents? Or even known whether they're dead or alive? Come to that, HER dad's not dead yet. I know she's off her head on Bubbleshock, but really...

'We can't leave them like that!' 'What else can we do? If we tamper with the stasis field in any way, we're dead. No, I daren't go down there' – well, ROMANA gets it all sorted easily enough in Happy Endings.

whatever happened to 'the crime [Rosheen] had committed cost the lives of millions, left to starve after the collapse of the central markets' a couple of pages earlier?

No contradiction. Rosheen doesn't kill people for fun, and she looks down on people who do, but she doesn't care if people get killed by her money-making schemes.

Everyone ELSE from UNIT blokes to Marshmen can move it.

The Tardis's apparent weight is variable. Depending on her mood, she can seem to weigh anything from a few pounds to several thousand tons. Presumably, on this occasion she felt like being heavy.

'm sorry, is McCoy within fifteen hours of his regeneration cycle? I THINK NOT.

Which is why it would take him ages to regrow his legs. If he were in the first fifteen hours, he could have regrown his legs in under two minutes, but now he'd need six months in the Tardis medical bay.

which bits of they were just trying to kill you and they'll be blown to smithereens in ten minutes anyway is she somehow failing to grasp?

The bit where that robs their life of all value, perhaps. It's much like when the Doctor tries to rescue Davros or the Master from certain death.

Rosheen doesn't kill people for fun, and she looks down on people who do, but she doesn't care if people get killed by her money-making schemes.

I just don't see what RIGHT she's got to look down on people who genocide for kicks, rather than - as in HER case - who genocide as the side-effect of their kicks.

The Tardis's apparent weight is variable. Depending on her mood, she can seem to weigh anything from a few pounds to several thousand tons. Presumably, on this occasion she felt like being heavy.

I have the FEELING you're correct, but I can't actually REMEMBER any other case where Sexy just sat there refusing to move.

I'm sorry, is McCoy within fifteen hours of his regeneration cycle? I THINK NOT.

Which is why it would take him ages to regrow his legs. If he were in the first fifteen hours, he could have regrown his legs in under two minutes, but now he'd need six months in the Tardis medical bay.

Oh! Actually...that makes sense.

Providing you forget that the Doctor can apparently summon up regeneration energy at will to cure anything (i.e. River's wrist in Angels Take Manhattan) without apparently wasting a life.

which bits of they were just trying to kill you and they'll be blown to smithereens in ten minutes anyway is she somehow failing to grasp?

The bit where that robs their life of all value, perhaps. It's much like when the Doctor tries to rescue Davros or the Master from certain death.

Yeah, but THAT was the Doctor taking his...Doctorishness...to ridiculous extremes. Bernice Summerfield got the sickening sentimentality knocked out of her at around the time her mum got exterminated for trying to rescue her doll.

And, not wanting to sound speciest or anything, but these WERE only reusable artificial constructs, not...PEOPLE.

I have the FEELING you're correct, but I can't actually REMEMBER any other case where Sexy just sat there refusing to move.

I don't know if this scene qualifies, but when Rose, Jackie and Mickey were trying to pry open the TARDIS's console, she was not budging at all even though there was a powerful tow truck pulling at her with all its might.

I just don't see what RIGHT she's got to look down on people ...

She hasn't, but when did that ever stop anyone? People are good at elevating microscopic differences into clear proof of their own superiority. Just look at the way Star Wars fans think they're massively superior to Star Trek fans and vice versa when there's really nothing to choose between the two.

Providing you forget that the Doctor can apparently summon up regeneration energy at will to cure anything

Anything except himself, which would be a bit circular. If Time Lords could cure themselves with regeneration energy, we wouldn't have seen them moaning about their hips.

Bernice Summerfield got the sickening sentimentality knocked out of her

But then she met the Doctor, who is an inspiration. It's hardly surprising that she occasionally does things she thinks he'd approve of.

I don't know if this scene qualifies, but when Rose, Jackie and Mickey were trying to pry open the TARDIS's console, she was not budging at all even though there was a powerful tow truck pulling at her with all its might.

It most certainly does NOT qualify! It's one thing to refuse to have your innards messed around with (though gods know WHY - didn't she WANT to rescue her Thief?) and it's QUITE ANOTHER to refuse to shift your outer shell.

People are good at elevating microscopic differences into clear proof of their own superiority.

OK, fair enough.

Providing you forget that the Doctor can apparently summon up regeneration energy at will to cure anything

Anything except himself, which would be a bit circular. If Time Lords could cure themselves with regeneration energy, we wouldn't have seen them moaning about their hips.

Well, TENNANT did it, even if he had a handy-hand recepticle that most Time Lords almost certainly didn't (though if they had any SENSE they'd ALL double their lifespans by chopping off a limb the moment they regenerated). Regeneration heals and THEN changes you, which obviously is a bit stupid (why not just heal you? What NEED for regeneration once you were fine?). Of course, it would be really risky, and if you were on your LAST life you'd almost certainly decide to go on the hip-replacement waiting list rather than risk permanent death, i.e. being stuck in that stupid Matrix.

Bernice Summerfield got the sickening sentimentality knocked out of her

But then she met the Doctor, who is an inspiration. It's hardly surprising that she occasionally does things she thinks he'd approve of.

Later on, maybe. Put at THIS point she's only had a) Love and War - in which she accused the Doctor of behaving like a monster for letting the love of Ace's life die, b) Transit, in which she spent her entire time possessed by some creature, and c) Highest Science, in which she spent her entire time addicted to Bubbleshake drugs*. So honestly, she hasn't had much TIME to find the Doctor gloriously inspirational and adjust her behaviour accordingly. (Sure, plenty of scumbags like Rattigan and the Hostess only had to spend FIVE MINUTES in the Doctor's company before doing the noble self-sacrifice thing, but those were NEW WHO Doctors. They'd REALLY got the hang of the 'making people better' thing.)

*I accidentally said Bubbleshock above. I'm shocked no one corrected me. I'm also shocked that anything that ripped off THIS could have launched our glorious SJA. Or indeed our moderately-glorious Planet of the Dead.

I can't actually REMEMBER any other case where Sexy just sat there refusing to move.

She stayed put when the Daleks whipped the Earth away from underneath her.

Well, TENNANT did it, even if he had a handy-hand recepticle

And he had to be hurt badly enough to trigger regeneration first. Romana might be able to regenerate on a whim, but not the Doctor, so if Seven did lose his legs he wouldn't be able to start regenerating, before diverting the surplus energy into a spare hand, even if he did have a spare hand, which he didn't.

Regeneration heals and THEN changes you, which obviously is a bit stupid (why not just heal you?

Well, there is the theory that it changes you into someone who won't make the mistakes that got your old self killed, which might be considered beneficial.

those were NEW WHO Doctors. They'd REALLY got the hang of the 'making people better' thing.)

True enough.

She stayed put when the Daleks whipped the Earth away from underneath her.

I assumed that was Dalek planet-nicking technology finally having a 'filter out that ******* TARDIS' setting. I can't see why Sexy would DELIBERATELY have abandoned Earth when she KNEW how desperate the Doctor would be to get back to it.

[Tennant] had to be hurt badly enough to trigger regeneration first. Romana might be able to regenerate on a whim, but not the Doctor

I disagree. Tennant had spectacular control over his regeneration process (held it off for long enough to see EVERY SINGLE PREVIOUS COMPANION (bar Jo Grant and, one assumes, Adric)) and Matt could invoke it for long enough to heal River's wrist when HE was completely unhurt.

so if Seven did lose his legs he wouldn't be able to start regenerating

Seven regenerated after being DEAD for several hours. Which is UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE. He would TOTALLY be able to kick-start the regeneration process after losing some LEGS. Hell, he even (according to the NAs anyway) reached back before he even existed to kill off poor Old Sixie.

Well, there is the theory that it changes you into someone who won't make the mistakes that got your old self killed, which might be considered beneficial.

Though it also changes you into someone mentally and physically screwed-up. It's amazing more Time Lords don't have Curse of the Fatal Death-style incidents straight after regeneration.

I assumed that was Dalek planet-nicking technology finally having a 'filter out that ******* TARDIS' setting.

That would be pretty short-sighted of the Daleks, since it would leave the Doctor free to ruin their plans. No, I expect they had a 'divert the TARDIS into an holding cell, surrounded by death traps' filter, which the Tardis cleverly evaded by refusing to move.

I disagree. Tennant had spectacular control over his regeneration process.

True, but did Seven, or any of the other pre-Time War Doctors, ever demonstrate that kind of control? Maybe the High Council had an attack of common sense during the war, and made all Time Lords learn how to manipulate their regenerative energies.

Seven regenerated after being DEAD for several hours. Which is UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE.

He said he was dead, but the Doctor is not entirely honest, and he's been known to exaggerates for effect, claiming the Titanic would destroy the Earth.

I'd trust Seven with my life, of course, but not with the unvarnished truth.

It's amazing more Time Lords don't have Curse of the Fatal Death-sytle incidents straight after regeneration.

Well, most of them probably regenerate from simple old age, surrounded by medical staff, with plenty of drugs to smooth over the trauma.

I assumed that was Dalek planet-nicking technology finally having a 'filter out that ******* TARDIS' setting.

That would be pretty short-sighted of the Daleks, since it would leave the Doctor free to ruin their plans.

The Doctor wouldn't even NOTICE their plans if he didn't happen to be on the spot every time they invade his favourite planet.

'Just keep the hell away from that Doctor' is certainly not a fool-proof plan, but it's a LOT more likely to succeed than just keeping your tentacles crossed that the Oncoming Storm won't notice what you're up to THIS time.

Tennant had spectacular control over his regeneration process.

True, but did Seven, or any of the other pre-Time War Doctors, ever demonstrate that kind of control? Maybe the High Council had an attack of common sense during the war, and made all Time Lords learn how to manipulate their regenerative energies.

Any High Councillor showing any sense during the War is instantly vaporised by Mr Rassilon. And it would have taken too long, anyway - and been difficult to practise without wasting a few lives. Though I don't doubt the Time Lords gave the Doctor and co a new regeneration cycle before shoving 'em onto the front line.

He said he was dead, but the Doctor is not entirely honest, and he's been known to exaggerates for effect

S'pose so, but still...he looked dead to me AND to several members of staff at that hospital for several hours. Admittedly the hospital was full of cretins, and I'm probably the Sarah Jane type who'd hurl myself sobbing across the Doctor's frilly chest every time he so much as took a nap.

claiming the Titanic would destroy the Earth.

I bet Alonzo did something terribly heroic in the last moments to slow it down. Or something.

It's amazing more Time Lords don't have Curse of the Fatal Death-style incidents straight after regeneration.

Well, most of them probably regenerate from simple old age, surrounded by medical staff, with plenty of drugs to smooth over the trauma.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Sorry, have just been listening to the Gallifrey audios, in which there's...ONE MEDIC. On the whole of Gallifrey. BOTH sides have to go to him during the civil war because there just isn't anyone else...*shakes head despairingly*

Plus the Time Lords were too moronic to develop their own regeneration drugs and had to rely on the Sisterhood to keep 'em supplied with Elixir.

And didn't Timewyrm: Exodus mention something about there being loads of hideously deformed mutant results of regeneration-going-wrong in hidden wards on Gallifrey?

The Doctor wouldn't even NOTICE their plans if he didn't happen to be on the spot every time they invade his favourite planet.

If they stole the Earth while he was there, he'd notice.

And it would have taken too long, anyway - and been difficult to practise without wasting a few lives.

Time should hardly be a problem when fighting a Time War, and Rassilon wouldn't care if a few hundred Time Lords died getting the hang of manipulating regenerative energy.

Sorry, have just been listening to the Gallifrey audios, in which there's...ONE MEDIC.

Then I expect they regenerated surrounded by their family, with a few dozen bottle of fine wine to ease the regenerative trauma.

S'pose so, but still...he looked dead to me AND to several members of staff at that hospital for several hours.

Deep coma, not the first time the Doctor has slept like the dead.

And didn't Timewyrm: Exodus mention something about there being loads of hideously deformed mutant results of regeneration-going-wrong in hidden wards on Gallifrey?

I don't recall, but if there weren't dozens of successful regenerations for each failure Gallifrey would have been even less functional than the mess we saw.

If they stole the Earth while he was there, he'd notice.

Yeah *sigh* the 'Dalek filter' theory has its drawbacks (i.e. makes no sense whatsoever) but probably fewer drawbacks than the idea that Sexy DELIBERATELY let Earth be whipped out from under her.

Time should hardly be a problem when fighting a Time War

I think it would have been, especially at first - they'd've been more careful about not nipping back to save time/undo every little mistake, because of the effect on the Web of Time.

Rassilon wouldn't care if a few hundred Time Lords died getting the hang of manipulating regenerative energy.

But he'd probably decide they were more useful dying on the front line than dying during practice-for-the-front-line. Plus it would be less damaging to morale.

Then I expect they regenerated surrounded by their family, with a few dozen bottle of fine wine to ease the regenerative trauma.

I'm not convinced they DO have families. Except for the weirdo Doctor, of course, and OK, the Master allegedly had some 'father' thing. And there's no guarantee they'd like wine. Eleven certainly didn't, even though his Third self carried on like a one-man wine and cheese party.

probably fewer drawbacks than the idea that Sexy DELIBERATELY let Earth be whipped out from under her.

She doesn't think like us humans, as Edge of Destruction demonstrated. We might never understand why she refused to move, but it makes more sense than a Dalek filter. Besides the above objections, surely the Daleks would have had an alarm go off when the Tardis triggered the filter.

they'd've been more careful about not nipping back to save time/undo every little mistake, because of the effect on the Web of Time.

I was thinking time dilation rather than time travel - some room where time passes one hundred times faster than normal, so they can get three months training done in a day.

But he'd probably decide they were more useful dying on the front line than dying during practice-for-the-front-line.

Hmm. He could have just sent them to the front lines with a pamphlet explaining how to manipulate regenerative energies, and expected them to do the necessary practice on the battlefield.

Plus it would be less damaging to morale.

Rassilon didn't care about morale. Anyone who complained would have been vaporised.

I'm not convinced they DO have families. Except for the weirdo Doctor, of course, and OK, the Master allegedly had some 'father' thing

Even if they don't reproduce biologically, as in Lungbarrow, they still have families of a sort, full of backstabbing cousins, and deeply eccentric uncles.

And there's no guarantee they'd like wine.

Wine, or any other socially acceptable relaxant. Some might find smoking a pipe helps them settle into their new regeneration without any unfortunate incidents; others may prefer harder drugs.

Of course, the best thing would be to spend the first seven days of each regeneration curled up with a dozen cute kittens, all purring, but most Time Lords aren't that sensible.

probably fewer drawbacks than the idea that Sexy DELIBERATELY let Earth be whipped out from under her.

It may just be something as simple as a TARDIS being shielded against transmat beams. Earth goes, TARDIS stays.

She doesn't think like us humans, as Edge of Destruction demonstrated

As I've no doubt mentioned before, both Sexy and her Thief were crazy sub-humans in THOSE days. A millennium or so has now passed and they're practically sane and domesticated these days.

We might never understand why she refused to move, but it makes more sense than a Dalek filter.

Given that Sexy DOES see the future, she MIGHT have deliberately waited to get the Doctor to Earth until he'd be in the right place to get himself exterminated, have a semi-regeneration and grow Rose's Doctor-shaped chew toy, thus saving every universe ever, but - on the down side - resulting in a thoroughly miserable Donna-AND-Rose-deprived Thief, AND resulting in her nearly getting roasted alive AND having to watch the Doctor yell 'Sure, roast that TARDIS, no problem - just save Donna! Pleeeeeease!'

Plus it can't have been THAT tricky to get the Doc exterminated, Earth was CRAWLING with Daleks.

I was thinking time dilation rather than time travel - some room where time passes one hundred times faster than normal, so they can get three months training done in a day.

Brilliant!

Of course, WAY too brilliant for Time Lords.

He could have just sent them to the front lines with a pamphlet explaining how to manipulate regenerative energies, and expected them to do the necessary practice on the battlefield.

We actually get a pretty good picture of what it's like being a front-line Time Lord fighter in the Time War from Taking of Planet 5. I just can't remember much about it.

Rassilon didn't care about morale. Anyone who complained would have been vaporised.

Ah, but we're talking about the EARLY days of the Time War. I'm pretty sure Rassilon had to get power- and war-corrupted for YEARS before he reached the instant-vaporisation-for-anyone-who-disagrees-with-me stage. If he'd strolled out from his Tomb striking people with lightning-bolts right, left and centre, they'd've shut him back up in it soon enough.

Even if they don't reproduce biologically, as in Lungbarrow, they still have families of a sort, full of backstabbing cousins, and deeply eccentric uncles.

Exactly the sort of people you WOULDN'T want surrounding you when you're regenerating, then.

Of course, the best thing would be to spend the first seven days of each regeneration curled up with a dozen cute kittens, all purring

Are you CRAZY? You can't trust a newly-regenerated Time Lord around kittens! They might turn out like Colin Baker! Hell, you can't even trust a non-newly-regenerated Time Lord around kittens, given what happened to a) the President's cat (Mark of the Rani), b) the Seventh's Doctor's cat (Warlock) and c) the Eighth's Doctor's cat (mysteriously disappeared after Legacy of the Daleks).

Though of course I've got nothing against waving a few kittens at an about-to-regenerate Time Lord from a VERY safe distance (and from behind regeneration-proof glass) in the hope s/he'll take the hint and turn into someone looking like Thomas Kincade Brannigan...

It may just be something as simple as a TARDIS being shielded against transmat beams. Earth goes, TARDIS stays.

That WOULD have been an eminently sensible thing for Sexy to do, which is why, of course, she didn't do it. The Sontarans transmatted her, the Controller transmatted her, the Daleks beamed her up...

Given that Sexy DOES see the future, she MIGHT have deliberately waited to get the Doctor to Earth until he'd be in the right place to get himself exterminated

Very plausible.

it can't have been THAT tricky to get the Doc exterminated

But not all exterminations are equal, for the Tardis's purposes. For a start, it needs to happen within easy reach of the Tardis, but there may be other conditions we don't know about. The Tardis could be setting up dominoes, so that as a direct result of the Doctor's near death, a cat will be in exactly the right place to inspire the seventeenth Doctor when he's feeling depressed.

Of course, WAY too brilliant for Time Lords

It's often been suggested that the Master did exactly that, when he was lurking insider the Melkur on Traken, rather than spending years cooped up in his Tardis.

If he'd strolled out from his Tomb striking people with lightning-bolts right, left and centre, they'd've shut him back up in it soon enough.

I suspect by the time the Time Lords were desperate enough to wake Rassilon up, they were desperate enough to tolerate the lightning bolts - a twenty percent chance of death by Rassilon is better than a ninety-five percent chance of death by Dalek.

Besides, even if Rassilon did go easy for his first few years back, once his grip on power was secure he could have started instituting lethal training.

Exactly the sort of people you WOULDN'T want surrounding you when you're regenerating, then.

But it's the perfect excuse. If you have a little regenerative 'accident', and blast your oldest cousin with artron energy (like River did to the Nazis), nobody will blame you - they'll be too busy splitting up his, or her, antiques collection.

Human families wouldn't act like that, of course, but Time Lords appear to lack our strength of family feeling. Just look at the way the Doctor abandoned Susan.

Are you CRAZY? You can't trust a newly-regenerated Time Lord around kittens!

The first thing they see is burnt on their heart, like Amy for Eleventh. Obviously then, if the first thing they see is a kitten, they'll spend their entire regeneration doting on kittens.

Admittedly, the first thing Six saw was Peri, which doesn't quite fit, but we can blame that on the remnant poison in his system. None of the other Doctors tried to kill the first person they saw, after all. As long as the Time Lords are dying of simple old age, the kittens should be perfectly safe.

The Tardis could be setting up dominoes, so that as a direct result of the Doctor's near death, a cat will be in exactly the right place to inspire the seventeenth Doctor when he's feeling depressed.

He? HE??

It's often been suggested that the Master did exactly that, when he was lurking insider the Melkur on Traken, rather than spending years cooped up in his Tardis.

Hmmm. That's a thought. I bet his TARDIS had a good library, and he could always have fun experimenting with new TCEs to make the years pass quicker, but still, he can't have enjoyed being in that decrepit form and, after all, in Last of the Time Lords he TOPPED himself rather than get locked up in a TARDIS for FIVE MINUTES (optimistically assuming it WOULD take him a whole five minutes to escape from his adoring jailor)...

I suspect by the time the Time Lords were desperate enough to wake Rassilon up, they were desperate enough to tolerate the lightning bolts

I don't think they'd have to be particularly desperate. Who WOULDN'T want to awaken their sleeping hero? And who WOULDN'T manage a stroll through the Death Zone, providing no one was stupid enough to materialise any more monsters about the place?

Time Lords appear to lack our strength of family feeling. Just look at the way the Doctor abandoned Susan.

Oh, Susan was nothing. At least he actually acknowledged her existence occasionally. WHAT'S HAPPENED TO HIS KIDS?

The first thing they see is burnt on their heart, like Amy for Eleventh.

Could we compromise with a PHOTO of kittens?

None of the other Doctors tried to kill the first person they saw, after all

Well, One and Nine MIGHT have done, for all we know...

Oh, Susan was nothing. At least he actually acknowledged her existence occasionally. WHAT'S HAPPENED TO HIS KIDS?

Yeah. He didn't even stick around for Jenny's funeral, the git.

Who WOULDN'T want to awaken their sleeping hero?

The Time Lords currently in power, who presumably wouldn't want to get demoted.

providing no one was stupid enough to materialise any more monsters about the place?

But was that optional? If Borusa could have just walked in, without materialising monsters and conscripting the Doctors as his champion, surely he would have.

At least he actually acknowledged her existence occasionally. WHAT'S HAPPENED TO HIS KIDS?

All will be revealed, eventually. It might be this November, it might not be for a hundred years, but sooner or later an episode will end with the shocking twist that some well known character is the Doctor's long lost child, possibly under a chameleon arch.

Could we compromise with a PHOTO of kittens?

I'll concede the risk to a live kitten might be too great, but a video, with sound, would be better than a mere picture. A hologram would be better still, if the Time Lords can manage that.

Well, One and Nine MIGHT have done, for all we know...

Can you really imagine One in his cradle, trying to strangle his mother or father? I doubt even the Master would have tried that. Killing the person who feeds you is too counter-productive, even for him.

As for Nine, we don't know, but we don't know if there were any extenuating circumstance either. If the first person he saw after regenerating was the person who'd just killed him, a vigorous response would be understandable.

In the absence of clear evidence to the contrary, we can only take Eleven at his word. It's not as if he had any real reason to lie.

Yeah. He didn't even stick around for Jenny's funeral, the git.

God, I wasn't even thinking of poor Jenny. (As we haven't heard from her again, no doubt she suffocated to death in her first spaceflight through attempting to traverse the stars without understanding the importance of oxygen and food supplies due to being a) less than a day old and b) abandoned by her dad.)

I was thinking of those kids the Doctor presumably produced in order to have a granddaughter - the ones he never once mentioned or (as far as we can tell) even THOUGHT of, before he dropped the 'I was a dad once' bombshell on poor Rose. (And then wheeled out as a despicable I'm-gonna-treat-Jenny-like-dirt excuse to get Donna off his back.)

Who WOULDN'T want to awaken their sleeping hero?

The Time Lords currently in power, who presumably wouldn't want to get demoted.

Oh, I dunno. If I'd been elected in the happy expectation I'd spend a couple of hundred years gently snoozing in a high collar whilst being treated like I was the most important person in the universe, I'd be pretty prepared to make the 'ultimate sacrifice' and step down in favour of Rassilon, or indeed ANY lunatic who felt s/he could face down a few billion Daleks.

If Borusa could have just walked in, without materialising monsters and conscripting the Doctors as his champion, surely he would have.

He obviously didn't think of that. (Cos, let's face it...I obviously didn't think of that.) Of course, Borusa WAS a Grade A Nutcase who made things a LOT more difficult than necessary for the Doctors - 'I gave you an old enemy to defeat...' - just to make things more fun.

WHAT'S HAPPENED TO HIS KIDS?

All will be revealed, eventually. It might be this November, it might not be for a hundred years, but sooner or later an episode will end with the shocking twist that some well known character is the Doctor's long lost child, possibly under a chameleon arch.

Ugg, no!

A hologram would be better still, if the Time Lords can manage that.

I don't recall the Lords of Time ever being capable of putting together a hologram...

Can you really imagine One in his cradle, trying to strangle his mother or father?

Frankly, yes.

Of course, I regard ALL babies as monsters, and the picture I have here is of a monster-baby with old-Hartnell's head on it...(It's hardly MY fault if the disconnect between Lungbarrow and the cradle-in-Good-Man-Goes-to-War is doing my head in.)

I doubt even the Master would have tried that. Killing the person who feeds you is too counter-productive, even for him.

Relying on a black-magic-and-widow's-kiss-and-ring-and-Book-of-Saxon-based resurrection rather than just regenerating-and-escaping-from-the-Doctor is ALSO insanely counter-productive, but the Master did it anyway...

In the absence of clear evidence to the contrary, we can only take Eleven at his word. It's not as if he had any real reason to lie.

Does he NEED a reason? I'm sorry, but when Eleven's OWN WIFE goes round telling us 'the Doctor lies' ALL THE TIME...

If I'd been elected in the happy expectation I'd spend a couple of hundred years gently snoozing in a high collar

But I doubt that's all the High Council expected out of life. Just consider how many of them turned out to be power-mad traitors.

I think they all expected immense prestige, without having to do any real work - that was left to the underlings. They'd be happy enough to have Rassilon working for them, keeping the Daleks away, but they'd realise that wouldn't happen, because Rassilon had far more prestige than them.

Of course, Borusa WAS a Grade A Nutcase who made things a LOT more difficult than necessary for the Doctors - 'I gave you an old enemy to defeat...' - just to make things more fun.

Or, alternately, Rassilon had set things up so that no one could just walk into the Death Zone, but had to play in game instead. He probably recorded the failed attempts, for his own amusement.

Relying on a black-magic-and-widow's-kiss-and-ring-and-Book-of-Saxon-based resurrection rather than just regenerating-and-escaping-from-the-Doctor is ALSO insanely counter-productive

No, it's insanely complicated, not quite the same thing. An insanely counter-productive plan would leave the Master worse off than where he started - for example, returning from the dead to find himself still the Doctor's prisoner, but now with a poodle's head and an allergy to fur.

Does he NEED a reason?

If we're expected to believe he's good, yes.

But I doubt that's all the High Council expected out of life. Just consider how many of them turned out to be power-mad traitors.

Though even THEY might have thought Rassilon-in-charge would have helped them CONTINUE being power-mad traitors for a bit longer.

They'd be happy enough to have Rassilon working for them, keeping the Daleks away, but they'd realise that wouldn't happen, because Rassilon had far more prestige than them.

Yeah, but Rassilon also had the entire Dalek species and, more significantly, the Doctor really mad at him. His chances of long-term survival were...minimal.

Or, alternately, Rassilon had set things up so that no one could just walk into the Death Zone, but had to play in game instead.

Yeah, that WOULD make more sense. It's just that *embarrassed cough* it never occurred to me.

No, it's insanely complicated, not quite the same thing. An insanely counter-productive plan would leave the Master worse off than where he started

Which is exactly what he WAS. He came back STARVING and DYING (and weirdly blond).

Though even THEY might have thought Rassilon-in-charge would have helped them CONTINUE being power-mad traitors for a bit longer.

Possible, I suppose. It all depends on exactly what Rassilon's reputation was, and how good the High Council was at deluding themselves things would work their way.

Which is exactly what he WAS. He came back STARVING and DYING (and weirdly blond).

But also free, with superpowers, and dying was a fixable problem. I'm pretty sure the Master would prefer being in that condition to being locked in the Doctor's Tardis, forced to listen to the Doctor's attempts to get him to renounce evil, and be his friend again. Thus, it wasn't counter-productive.

MODERATOR'S NOTE: conversation continued in Monsters: The Master and Monsters: Time Lords.

Jac Rayner on adapting this for audio: 'BBC rules meant Benny wasn’t allowed to be drugged so that cut out quite a large plot strand.' - you have GOT to be kidding me! Benny spends THE - ENTIRE - BOOK drugged! Why the hell choose THIS (godawful pile of ••••) for adaptation in THESE circumstances? (Sure, it's by our New Living God Gareth Roberts, but so's Zamper and I don't see anyone rushing to adapt THAT.)

'It was really very nice for the book to be received well - particularly because looing back at it now, it isn't actually that good. It's very confused and involved, with far too much going on in it - and no ending' - HA! Even THE AUTHOR agrees with me!

Audio version:

Well, that was moderately successful (give or take the ending, or lack thereof). I shouldn't be surprised, being drastically pruned is EXACTLY what the boring rambling pointless book needed.

'You didn't have to do that' - boy, Big Finish just can't help themselves, can they? They've just gotta shoehorn their Favourite Line Ever into EVERY audio, even the ones that are actually NOVELS. (Plus, it's a pretty lame reaction from a killer-of-millions to her boyfriend being cruelly aged to death.)

Benny's reminiscences of book-swapping in archaeology class are a bit odd, in view of the fact she's never actually BEEN to archaeology class.

'Sometimes, Doctor, I wish you wouldn't treat the universe as if it was your own personal responsibility' - SOMETIMES? Who the hell do you think you ARE! This is your second trip in the TARDIS* so don't act like you're some kind of Doctor-EXPERT.

Benny mentions 'going down to the shops for a newspaper' as if it's the most boring everyday thing she can think of, which it almost certainly isn't for the twenty-sixth century, or at least the Dalek-War-ravaged and frontier-worlds of the twenty-sixth century that Benny's been knocking around.

The General doesn't even bother to glance down at his eggs before bragging about what a successful clutch they are?

Benny and the master-manipulative Doctor don't bother checking the scanner for, say, giant killer-tortoises before exiting the TARDIS? (Alright, so he doesn't in the telemovie either but it's incidents like this that should have taught him better.)

As whatshisface is convinced that the rubbish song is a genuine prophecy, and that Benny is the prophecied pretty lady who will show him the way, why does he ignore her attempts to tell him which way to go (viz, back for the Doctor)?

Benny the supposed body-language expert totally fails to twig from whatshisface's body language (or, y'know, ACTUAL language) that he's off his head on drugs?

How could any human possibly have resisted the temptation to punch the Doctor in the face as he deliberately destroyed their only defence against homicidal aliens whilst smugly lecturing them about how unsubtle weapons are?

It will 'take a few trips' to get the 8-12s home? Blimey, I knew that commuter-trains were packed, I didn't realise they were packed with more people than could fit into a DIMENSIONALLY-TRANSCENDENTAL time machine...

The Chelonians cunningly outsmart the (Seventh!) Doctor by keeping an eye on him? Did he REALLY think they'd let him go and chat to their enemies without spying on him?

'Don't worry, Hazel, Mr Sheldukher here is the galaxy's most notorious criminal, not to mention psychopath' - I'm not convinced that the 'Don't worry' in that sentence is entirely appropriate, Doc.

Bernice doesn't have a torch? I'm almost as shocked as on those occasions where the Doctor doesn't have a torch.

'I didn't save you so you could kill her' - frankly Doctor I'm rather siding with the TOTAL PSYCHO here about your responsibility for all the subsequent murders he commits, I mean, what did you THINK would happen when you saved him...

'Being King isn't everything - so you get your head on a stamp...' - aaaand again, what a twenty-sixth century gal considers the norm is slightly...confusing.

The Doctor deduces that Sheldukher is infinitely evil because he keeps the Cell alive when it's in pain. Jeez, even I find that a bit TOO pro-euthanasia for my tastes. (And hypocritical since when the Cell's begging THE DOCTOR to kill him, guess what, he hasn't got the guts.)

'I have interesting plans for the next few centuries! I have to live!' - alright, so this is McCoy but still, since when has that EVER been the Doctor's attitude? Even when he knows all the stars will go out if he's dead five minutes he NEVER does the sensible thing and puts his own skin first.

'"Too late" is something I will never accept' - unless it involves Adric and a freighter, in which case you seem TOTALLY FINE with the whole 'Oops, too late!' concept, Doc.

Doctor: 'Every violent death is a pointless death' - oh gods, I'm siding with the psycho AGAIN, of course they bloody aren't you ungrateful git. Plenty of them have entailed Noble Self-Sacrifices to save YOUR skin.

'What are you doing? Get off me!' 'If you harm her -' Why the hell are Benny and the Doctor taken by surprise when the galaxy's greatest psycho-criminal threatens her life when the Doctor refuses to open a door for him? What did they THINK would happen? They'd sit around discussing it over tea and biscuits like civilised people?

'This whole Citadel's a trap!' - I'm sorry, which bit of 'This whole planet's a trap!' did you somehow not get?

I've encountered some convenient teleports in my time, but this really takes the biscuit.

Benny omits to reproach the Doctor for locking her in a cupboard?

'There's not always a happy ending, loose ends all tied up' - not usually keen on meta-stuff, but love the cheeky Happy Endings reference.

*Unless there were loads of unseen adventures before or after Transit, which there definitely weren't, judging by a) Benny's suggestion that they both just forget all about this ancient mystery and leave (sorry, you're an archaeologist who isn't interested in ancient mysteries?!), b) Benny whinging 'When do I get to see some monsters' and c) Benny saying 'You didn't warn me there would be running, Doctor.'

They made audios of these?

Why?

'To wring more money out of gullible fans' is he only answer that's springing to mind.

They've adapted four MAs (Well-Mannered War, English Way of Death, Romance of Crime and Cold Fusion) which almost makes sense as the Gareth Roberts trilogy is massively popular for some reason I've never fathomed even though I worship him as a god for his New Who work, and seven NAs (this, Nightshade, Original Sin, All-Consuming Fire, Theatre of War, Love and War, Damaged Goods) which doesn't make much sense as most of 'em weren't very good in the first place. BF can be forgiven for omitting Just War as they'd already cannibalised it for their first Benny audio season, but what about Christmas on a Rational Planet or The Also People?

Bookwyrm:

Re the Chelonians: 'If a fertile "mother" is not given drugs to stabilise their reproductive patterns, they enter the "Time of Blood" and become unstable and murderous, which is possibly the most sexist idea that the NAs ever perpetrated' - well, I don't find it THAT offensive. Of course, it helps that I subscribe to the Heinlein definition of such things: 'Before their periods women behave the way men behave all the time.'

Plus, the NAs perpetuated the absurd idea that the Doctor should be a man. TALK about sexist...