Winter starts on or around the 21st of December. "Autumn Mist" was
aparently the German code-name for the counter-attack depicted in the book.

The 21st of December is merely the Winter Solstice and shortest day of the year...something like that, anyway...and Winter itself starts a LOT earlier.

But thanks for explaining about the counter-attack...it's easy to miss things like that when you're trying desperately to keep your eyelids from closing...

Chris--to really beat a nit to death, December 21st is actually MID-Winter (or summer, in your case), since that is the date that night reaches its maximum duration.

There is no real beginning of any season; it really depends on your local climate. In England I would guess winter begins in October; in my old home state, Texas, winter began December 29th and ended January 2nd.

I saw the name Chris and thought "I don't remember posting here; is it one of Nitcentral's other Chrises you are referring to?" but a brief investigation shows a Stephen made the post about the start of winter.
Haven't read Autumn Mist myself. Not yet, anyway.

Whoops! Very careless of me.

I actually like this book more than most other McIntee offerings. The Beast didn't work for me though, but that's probably because I haven't read 'The Taint'.

As for Sam dying, I read that McIntee intended for her to die, then be brought back as the reader expects, then die permenantly at the end.
Then Lawrence Miles popped his head up and said that he'd like to write her out, so she was kept on for one more book.

Lawrence was absolutely NOT to blame! He wrote Interference specifically as Sam’s leaving book MONTHS before McIntee wrote Autumn Mist. And because Lawrence was sick of the way Companions on TV suddenly announce at the end of a story that they're leaving, he asked the editor to build up to it by having her decide to leave in the previous book. So what does McIntee do? He writes this b o r i n g pile of drivel and then, right at the end, has Sam suddenly announce – for no reason - that she’s leaving. Precisely what Lawrence was hoping to avoid. McIntee just wants to have a Companion’s head on his wall (metaphorically speaking). He wanted to kill Barbara in Face of the Enemy, and then he tried to do in poor old Sam.

I didn't Miles was to blame, I was just stating a fact.

Ah, but you were certainly implying that Lawrence messed up McIntee's plans rather than vice-versa.

Actually I'm not sure I agree that Autumn Mist is better than most of McIntee's stuff. I know that's exactly what I said in my review, but I was just carried away by the fact that I'd actually managed to finish the thing - a rare achievement where a McIntee was concerned. In retrospect this was probably due to it being an EDA - at the time I'd never let an EDA defeat me, whereas I'd frequently abandon NAs - rather than to any particular virtue of the book.

Yeah, okay, I *was* implying that Miles messed up McIntee's plans. Which he did; McIntee had made his submission first and had been accepted first.
This isn't to say that McIntee's plans for Sam were *better*, they were just first :)

Well, McIntee may have made his submission first and been accepted first, but Lawrence _wrote_ his book first. Actually he wrote it without bothering to consult the BBC - just turned up with 450 pages and announced to the editor that he'd written Sam an extra-long farewell story. The editor broke the news that the BBC's printing presses couldn't cope with more than 300 pages. Lawrence then said he'd got this idea for a Third Doctor story (cunningly not mentioning exactly what it involved DOING to the Third Doctor) and could he just stick it to the EDA and publish them as two books? So they did. I can't remember the dates or anything, but I certainly got the impression that Lawrence felt he'd given McIntee PLENTY of time to think of a decent reason for Sam wanting to leave the Doctor (and no, getting killed by Nazis and resurrected by elves doesn't qualify, IMHO).

I checked with Lawrence - he submitted Interference on 1st April 1998 (and Steven Cole asked if it was an April Fool's joke) and as Autumn Mist wasn't published until July 1999, David A McIntee can hardly complain that he wasn't given enough time to come to terms with the sad fact that he wasn't allowed to murder Sam.

What bothered me the most was the unneccessary death of the two American soldiers at the end. Their deaths were completely gratuitous, and added nothing to the story. I would suspect that McIntee had just seen "Saving Private Ryan"...

Also, what's with every single person feeling nothing after being shot or stabbed? I realize that some people go into shock after being shot, but it was the height of ridiculousness for EVERYBODY in this book to feel that way.

I feel vaguely aggrieved that now no-one can do a 'Doctor Who on the USS Eldridge' story after this, despite the rather desultory use of this particular urban myth here. The same goes for 'Doctor Who meets Orson Welles during the War of the Worlds broadcast' - I'm sure most writers could have come up with a much better scenario than 'Invaders from Mars'.

Mind you, we have multiple Atlantises and at least two explanations of Jack the Ripper, so perhaps all is not lost...

What's the USS Eldridge myth?

The USS Eldridge was the ship that was part of a USN test known as "The Philadelphia Experiment." The expressed goal of the test was to develop a system that would confuse enemy radar. The urban legend surrounding that test claims that the ship was actually sent back in time for a short period, during which sailors went mad, electrical gear went wild, etc. The fact that the ship was still in service during the Korean War is generally ignored by the conspiracy theorists. The legend was made into a film, creatively titled "The Philadelphia Experiment."

I'm not sure why Daniel is saying the Doctor can't be involved in this adventure, unless I missed something (or forgot) in "Autumn Mist."

The USS Eldridge story forms the background to Autumn Mist, though I can't remember exactly how, despite having read the book less than a week ago. Which means that this idea has been used by Doctor Who already and couldn't really be used again.

But see what I said about Jack the Ripper. Also the Titanic features prominently in 'The Left-Handed Hummingbird' despite having previously appeared in the 1989 comic strip 'Follow That TARDIS!' (in which the ship is deliberately rammed into the iceberg by the Blues Brothers [sort of] in the mistaken belief that this is the current disguise for the Meddling Monk's TARDIS.)

The Philadelphia Experiment was the basis for a commissioned but unused Colin Baker era story titled 'The Macros' (aka 'The Macromen') by none other than Ingrid Pitt... I'm a fountain of weird facts today.

Why couldn't the Doctor have another adventure on the Eldridge? (A) He wasn't there in "Autumn Mist", and (B) with the current alternate history storyline, he could go there multiple times!

It's not so much that he can't as that it would just look like reusing an old plot idea. As an example, imagine another story where the Doctor gets involved in the 3rd Crusade and meets Richard the Lionheart - that could be perfectly acceptible in continuity terms but it would still feel as though it were treading on the toes of 'The Crusade'.

Doctor Who reusing an old plot idea? Unheard of!

;-)

Ah, but they do usually change the names to protect the guilty.

In this case, of course, given the human race's (well, OK, I suppose I'm extrapolating a bit from three people) pathological inability to remember a single thing about Autumn Mist, this wouldn't be a problem.

What bothered me the most was the unneccessary death of the two American soldiers at the end. Their deaths were completely gratuitous, and added nothing to the story.

They removed two Americans from the story, what more do you WANT?! (It's not that I'm an anti-American racist or anything. It's just that Americans in Who tend to have REALLY WEIRD ACCENTS.)

I feel vaguely aggrieved that now no-one can do a 'Doctor Who on the USS Eldridge' story after this

Except, of course, that the computer game 'Shadows of the Vashta Nerada' also wheels out the wretched boat.

The Philadelphia Experiment was the basis for a commissioned but unused Colin Baker era story titled 'The Macros' (aka 'The Macromen') by none other than Ingrid Pitt...

Well, it's been used NOW. In Big Finish's Lost Stories range.

So that makes THREE USS Eldridge stories. And counting...

'The aliens turned out to be creatures from a parallel dimension, that occasionally slipped into our own...once, they had been thought of as elves and fairies...Virgin then pointed out that they had covered Celtic mythology in Witchmark' - McIntee in DWM on his original First Frontier proposal. I've said it before and I'll say it again: don't give up hope if Virgin rejects your godawful idea! Just wait till the BBC come along and flog it to THEM!

'In the case of Autumn Mist, I'd noticed that often, by the end of a story, every character knows everything about the story. And real life's not like that, you only know about the bits of story you directly interacted with. So I wrote Autumn Mist, and discovered that when you do it realistically it doesn't work! It makes it seem like a set of unconnected events, rather than a flowing plot' - McIntee in DWM. AUTUMN MIST was an attempt to be REALISTIC???

NOT the thing to read straight after watching The Empty Child. THERE'S a World War Two Who story. Whereas this...well, it turns out tank-battles on the written page are really boring.

There was no TARDIS kitchen in Sam's day until Fitz wanted one? (Not a nit just a reminder to myself to try and catch Sam in the TARDIS kitchen sometime.)

'He'd been scared since he got to Europe' - but you said 'He wasn't afraid of the Germans' a couple of pages ago...

'The fresh air was nice, if chilly' - TARDIS air isn't fresh?!

'I just saw a couple of brass monkeys carrying some welding gear home, and that's a bit of a distraction.' 'Oh. Well, I'm sure that's why man invented clothes instead' - UH?

'The Doctor looked as if he was about to cry with relief' on seeing that Sam survived the explosion? He's not overly concerned later in the book when Sam's executed. ('This was bound to happen sooner or later...' 'So much for being all cut up about the blonde'.)

The Doctor SUGGESTS they split off and wander alone round world-war-torn Europe? Whatever happened to her/him constantly complaining about the Strays wandering off?

There's bread, jam and red wine lying around war-torn starving Europe?

Why do none of the soldiers shoot the German themselves instead of expecting a young civilian FEMALE to do so?

'The TARDIS loved Earth, as he did. Because he did, he told himself' - I suppose that's as good an explanation as any for her...tragic obsession.

'Making things Right is my profession. Cheating Death's just a sort of hobby' - well, it's one you're pretty •••• at, Mr 'He has one constant Companion - DEATH!' 'How many have died in your name' etc etc...

Since when has the Doctor gone round saying things like 'I don't imagine [psychiatrists]'d believe the truth [about my mother] even if I was in the mood to tell it'? (Also, since when has s/he remembered Mummy torturing him?)

'How lightly he took death in the run of things. He'd seen so much, and never so much as blinked' - well, even if you ignore all the other Doctors (say, Ten's fit of breast-beating KILL ME NOW! in Manhattan), Eight's had some pretty hysterical outbursts on the subject of Death in his audios...

They had water coolers in Second World War Europe?

'Surely they must be extinct by now' - you don't have a clue whether the sodding elves allegedly sharing your favourite planet with your favourite species are extinct or not?! (And you didn't think to confirm what species they were when you and Titania were, um, snuggling?)

'We can make the big small, and the small big' - without a Daemons-style heat-exchange?

The Doc's 1,018? That actually fits in quite well with the NAs, just not with New Who.

To be continued...

'He'd been scared since he got to Europe' - but you said 'He wasn't afraid of the Germans' a couple of pages ago...

Well, there's still the small matter of having a bomb dropped on one's head, or a stray bullet going through it, that sort of thing.

There's bread, jam and red wine lying around war-torn starving Europe?

Black market.

They had water coolers in Second World War Europe?

Apparently those things were patented in 1911, so they could have had them in WWI Europe.

'He'd been scared since he got to Europe' - but you said 'He wasn't afraid of the Germans' a couple of pages ago...

Well, there's still the small matter of having a bomb dropped on one's head, or a stray bullet going through it, that sort of thing.

But those would be GERMAN bombs n'bullets,

(Though I s'pose there's always the prospect of friendly fire.)

They had water coolers in Second World War Europe?

Apparently those things were patented in 1911, so they could have had them in WWI Europe.

That's just WEIRD.

'You have played before, many times.' 'You must be confusing me with someone else. Me, probably.' 'Anything's possible, Evergreen Man' - um, no, I don't recall any past or future Doctor playing stupid games with elves. (And if they know anything about future or indeed past Doctors they should go easier on the whole MAN thing.)

What's the significance of her having fifty-nine bells on her sodding dress?

'I always did admire your sense of humour' - ALWAYS? You met her for, what, five minutes, Doc? (I mean, I'm FAIRLY sure you didn't have sex with her. ('ATTEMPTING to seduce members of other races'...) Even if you're suddenly in the mood, given what Lawrence SAYS happens in the next couple of books with I M Foreman. And then there's that eyeball-less water-spirit in City of the Dead...But I digress, the whole Doctor-having-sex thing ship has sailed, what with the Doctor having a WIFE these days...)

'The universe has more than four dimensions: in fact there are eleven at last count' - ELEVEN!! *hastily googles* OK, maybe there are elven by the last HUMAN count (??!!) but why would the Doctor be lecturing twentieth-century humans about twenty-first-century human knowledge anyway? Also, SUSAN says there are five sodding dimensions in Unearthly Child (even if even I am a bit dubious about the fifth being 'space').

'I'm just a normal guy from a different planet, that's all. A quaint little green one in a quiet neighbourhood' - since when has Gallifrey been GREEN? (Also, not convinced about the 'quiet neighbourhood'. it's really near Karn for starters, and Karn is...fairly excitable. (Warmonger, Brain of Morbius, Vengeance of Morbius etc.))

'"Tell me: how long has Homo sapiens been around?" Garcia shrugged, and the Doctor continued. "The accepted figure's about half a million years, though it's really nearer six. Now... Recorded history of Homo sapiens goes back only ten thousand years or so. So what was happening in the rest of that time?' - is ANY of this accurate? And why exactly is Our Hero asking a HUMAN what happened in those lost millennia...?

Oberon is repeatedly referred to as Titania's consort except once where he suddenly refers to HER as HIS consort.

WOW but the Doctor's happy to slaughter Germans to get his hands on their tank. (The fact he and Fitz DISCUSS this doesn't negate this nit.)

'"So... does that mean you could even change sex? Regenerate into a woman? I mean, how would that work?" The Doctor paused thoughtfully. "I'll explain later."' - Autumn Mist is happy to plunge into the rabbit-hole when it comes to that half-human nonsense but dodges the gender-upgrade issue...?

Kovacs thinks he can just MAGICALLY MATERIALISE in the Pacific War and they'll accept him...? And not, say, shoot him for being a MAGICAL DESERTER from the European part of said War...?

'"Please," Oberon screeched. "Please, Evergreen Man. I'll be good..." The Doctor turned on his heel. He'd made the same promise, once, himself' - WHEN? None of the dozen-or-so conflicting accounts of why he fled Gallifrey involve a failed promise to be a good boy...

"The accepted figure's about half a million years, though it's really nearer six. Now... Recorded history of Homo sapiens goes back only ten thousand years or so. So what was happening in the rest of that time?' - is ANY of this accurate?

Half a million year is when fossils of Homo Sapiens type humans appear. Our own specific species appeared around 250,000 years ago, although a lot of tweaks and fine tuning occured between then and now. The six million years figure probably refers to when the ape and hominid lineages diverged. You could say that it's also when humans appeared, but not Homo Sapiens. As for the 10,000 years of recorded history, those records actually do not go farther back than 5000 years or so, from Egypt and Sumer. We do have examples of older written records, but since they have not been translated as of yet, they do not count as recorded history.

Half a million year is when fossils of Homo Sapiens type humans appear.

Well it should be FOUR million years according to Image of the Fendahl:

COLBY: Of course not. The volcanic sediment is twelve million years old. I accept without reservation the results of your excellent potassium-argon test.
THEA: Thank you.
COLBY: What I don't accept is that Eustace here got himself buried under a volcano at least eight million years before he could have possibly existed.

As for the 10,000 years of recorded history, those records actually do not go farther back than 5000 years or so, from Egypt and Sumer. We do have examples of older written records, but since they have not been translated as of yet, they do not count as recorded history.

Maybe the Doctor had a quick read of 'em sometime and forgot humans wouldn't be able to...? Dammit, s/he really ought to have ensured humanity found a Rosetta-type Stone to get that stuff translated, like he did with the ACTUAL Rosetta Stone (Companion Chronicle The Library of Alexandria).

'Surely they must be extinct by now' - you don't have a clue whether the sodding elves allegedly sharing your favourite planet with your favourite species are extinct or not?!

Especially weird given that you were running round with 'em in your last body...(Sullivan and Cross - AWOL: London Orbital.)