Here's a can of worms: what did people think of this extension of Doctor Who?
Some loved it, some hated it, others think it got it half right, some disagree it should be canon.

Actually, given this is the only Doctor Who Phil has seen, what did he think as an impartial observer without knowing all the history behind it?

The fox telemovie sucked. Sorry to any that liked it, but the acting wasn't very good (with the exception of McGann). The TARDIS interior didn't work that well. What was wrong with the old one? They were bimmin stupid to spend 90% of the budget on it. The story was dead rubbish too. They told us a lot about the Doctors past, undoing all the production team had done in the last season of the 7thdoctor, which tried to bring the mystery back to the program- and suggesting that the Doctor was more than just a timelord.

So the Doctor is half-human? This doesn't rip off a certain famous half-vulcan at all does it?

The Doctor in love with a woman? Not unlike a certain starship captain?

But seriously, these two features particularly didn't fit in with the who mythos, but then lets hope the story doesn't get considered canonical.

Even the Peter Cushing movies were bette than this. (Sorry that was unkind, the first Cushing movie was quite enjoyable)

Oh I don't know, I quite liked the post-industrialist look of the TARDIS. The old console room looked a bit plastic and like a TV studio - too much white.
Eric Roberts was a little too fey for my liking but can we link the out of character romance to post-regenerative trauma? The Sixth Doctor tried to strangle his companion shortly after he regenerated, something out of character. The Doctor is always a bit out of character when he regenerates and maybe romance was the overpowering emotion this time around.
They added the half-human element to explain why he's constantly on Earth protecting it but I think they should have just hinted at why. Personally, I think that at some point, somehow, Earth becomes Gallifrey (whether it's flung back in time or what I don't know but given the Ravolox incident, anything's possible).

My problem with the movie was that the Doctor spent most of the movie suffering from post-regenerative disorientation, and never actually had his own personality. It's hard to watch an entire film where the hero has no sense of himself, and it's not even excusable to say that most Who fans would know what was going on...if Dr. Who was going to attract a larger audience, viewers who'd not ever seen the show would need something to latch onto.

And I actually sort of enjoyed Eric Roberts as the master. He did have the best lines in the show..."This is an AMBULANCE!"

I loved the sceene where a San Francisco cop drives into to the TARDIS and drives back out. I didn't like the large "living room-bridge" set. I think it would have looked better with a small, formal control room (exit, viewscreen, control panel, very spartan) and an informal "living room set".

I still disliked the whole half-human thing. It is better that we do not know very much about the Doctor, as it makes the character more mysterious as he was originally. This is what they were trying to do with McCoy's last season (although they cut some very interesting moments from remebarance of the daleks)

I think we've established a certain love/hate relationship with this movie. Does anyone have any nits? Any explanations of how or why the inside of the TARDIS changed?

New interior decorator, perhaps?

Hasn't it been established the Doctor can reconfigure the interior of the TARDIS given its different console rooms over the years? At the start of The Five Doctors he talks about running everything in jsut after we see the latest console room.

One theory is that it was a new version of the backup console room that Tom Baker used for a while. I prefer to just try and pretend that this movie isn't canonical, it is far easier.

I say again: WHY DID THEY SPEND ABOUT 90% OF THE BUDGET ON THE TARDIS INTERIOR?

Chris!

Concerning my reaction to the Fox movie: As I recall--and it has been a while--I enjoyed the movie. I did have some tangential knowledge about Doctor Who that it involved time travellers, etc. And, I did understand that there was going to be a lot of stuff that I would miss simply because I hadn't watched the series.

But, the movie did intrigue me and I thought it had a lot of scope and a vast potential for story lines.

Thanks for the thoughts Phil. Interesting to hear what someone has to say who has never seen Doctor Who before, given they were trying to reach out to a new audience as well.

Well, I believe this telemovie is canonical given the books and comics have carried on with an Eighth Doctor and feel any future continuation of the show will acknowledge these events.
As for the 90 per cent of the budget claim: do you have a source for this? I know a lot was spent but was 90 per cent actually quoted anywhere?

90% of the budget was probably spent on the TARDIS because (American) producers and executvies like to reuse sets as much as possible.

I suppose it makes economic sense. Look at the Star Trek writer's guidelines - they basically say freelancers have to write stories set completely on the ship and are only a couple of guest aliens

The other reason 90% of the budget was spent on the TARDIS interior was that it was pretty much the only set. Everything else looked like location shooting, and subsequently wouldn't have cost as much. A significant part of the show took place inside the TARDIS. If I were the producer, I'd want to make sure that set looked pretty darn good.

They like to reuse sets. OK, then maybe they should have made the story better so that they would have a got a story and could have made a series and actually reused the set.

All the scenes set in the TARDIS were the worst ones, apart from them, the rest of it wasn't too bad. (apart from the romance thing).

One again I state my biggest greivance with the movie.

When Doctor Who started, one of the things that made it enjoyable was the fact that the Doctor was very much a mystery. This is the whole point of not giving him a name. We odn't know where he comes from, or anything about him (except that he has a grand-daughter and this is debatable). Through the series, we learnt more and more about the Doctors past, until, quite frankly most people were sick of the series outings to Gallifrey (his home planet) because most of the stories were teidous. As we learnt more about the Doctor, it made him more human, and less alien. This, although it could be argued led to some good stories, but overall, it eventually made the character worse (this was the problem with Colin Baker, the program had been going on for so long that there was nothing interesting left to find out about the Doctor).

When Sylvester McCoy took over, the creators delibarately made the character more mysterious, hinting that the Doctor was more than just a timelord. They never gave too much away, this would have ruined the whole point, but over the three seasons, they gradually made the Doctor, darker and more mysterious. In the Doctor's final lines in Survival, he makes a reference to the TARDIS as his home, which has led some fans to believe that this hinted at the fact that he wasn't Gallifreyan.

The Paul McGann movie should have tried to keep this mystery, and it could have used it effectively, given that a lot of viewers would not have seen the original series. Instead they made the character more human than ever, giving him a father, a love interest, and making him half-human.

The character of the Doctor, while having essential 'human' qualities like compassion and courage, needs to be alien. This is what they tried to return to in McCoy's era.

Phew, that was longer than I expected.

I agree they didn't need to explain everything in blurts of dialogue, it could have just unfolded naturally as it had done before.
But the movie's been and gone and there's nothing we can do about it - I know some choose to ignore it completely and that's their perogorative.
So here's a nit for the film: when the TARDIS door opens from the outside, one door goes inward. Was there really enough space for the motorbike to ride through that with ease?

The temporal orbit that saves the day at the end of the film: can anyone explain exactly what it is and how it saved everything?

What happened was something like this:

The Eye of Harmony is in the TARDIS (not correct, but the telemovie seemed to think this). The eye destroys Earth. The TARDIS goes back before the Earth was destroyed. So the eye couldn't destroy it.

Well thats what you get for employing a bad writer!

I've thinking about what you've said and I'm having trouble getting my head round it - I could understand if the TARDIS vworped away before the Eye did any damage, kind of like dematerialising a bomb a second before it explodes.
But the Earth *has* been destroyed. The Eye existed at that point. Going back in time is surely like closing the gate after the horse has bolted?
In Lance Parkin's Cold Fusion he came up for an explanation for the Eye in the TARDIS - apparently every TARDIS has one as a power source and they a direct link with the Eye Of Harmony on Gallifrey to get their power. Who knows, they're probably full of artron energy as well.

That was what my point was about the bad writing. Sorry if this wasn't clear.

I was disapponited in the movie. As stated above by others, I think the Doctor's past should be mysterious. I don't want to know about his childhood and his father...and I don't like the idea of his being half human. I know the thinking on that was to make the Doctor more 'user-friendly' for people who weren't familiar with the series, but it ruined the whole thing for me. That and the love interest. Especially the line: "I finally meet a guy and he's from outer space".

To be honest my cat could have written a better story.

While I also thought the outer space line was bad, a similar line destroyed Amelia Rumford's credibility for me in The Stones Of Blood when she asked the Doctor if he was from outer space.

I concede the point about bad writing but there are other aspects of Who that have suffered from this - not all, just a few.
But we simply don't ignore continuity and nitpicker problems by just brushing it aside and saying "It's bad writing, so it doesn't count".
It's a game we're all playing here but by doing that, it's almost as if someone's cheating.
Opinions are fine but everything presented has to be considered when nitpicking.

Just a point Mike, as stated above by others? No it was me! Me me me , me, me me me me me me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will rule you all. Nothinh ig ze world vill stop me now!!!

Enough Herman Zaroff for one day.

Nits are often created by bad writing. I wasn't suggesting that we don't nitpick this, just that I don't like this story enough to hope that it won't be remembered as the last ever Doctor Who. True, I said that about Dimensions in Time, but then what was that about anyway. Is there a board on that in the Doctor Who section? (i.e. Dimensions in Time)

No one outside of the UK has seen Dimensions In Time, unless they got a pirate copy on video.
As far as I'm concerned, the telemovie isn't the last Doctor Who ever - he was seen spinning off into the vortex for adventures a new - and, with time, *will* be back again - maybe 5 years, maybe 20, maybe a different incarnation, but the mythos will continue.

I said that I hoped it won't be the last Who. I was trying to an optimist.

Well, here's to future days then!

Didn't we all? Maybe it was residual energy from the Eye of Harmony? Or the Master's life force that resurrects them? Any other ideas?

Maybe Time Lords have extra strong necks? But then the fourth Doctor may have actually survived then, hey?
Maybe only things that relate to stellar cartography or big stars and planets can only be viewed that way?
Then for stuff just outside the TARDIS it would be viewed on the monitor that said "Timing Malfunction", much like in the old days.
But then, why didn't the 7th Doctor look before he went outside into a volley of bullets? Getting careless in his old age?

* Maybe Davros was involved. Then again the Daleks don't always exterminate on sight. Maybe a trial is just a formality before someone becomes a Dalek pawn or is vaporised when they have committed heinous crimes against Daleks, not just ticked them off.
* We only hear a brief account of what happened. Maybe the Time Lords sent the Doctor on a mission to get the Master's remains and he managed to survive his Skaro adventure like he has on several other occasions.
* The high-pitched silly voices? Davros made a mistake? A mutationas a result of the Movellan virus? The Doctor made the Dalek network go a bit haywrire while he was there, enabling him to complete his mission?
* We don't know at what point in time it is on Skaro. It could be before it is destroyed. It isn't necessarily 1999 as it is on Earth because the Doctor is travelling through time at the start in the vortex.
* Maybe Earth ends at midnight exactly because that's when every thing is aligned, either in the stars or vortex, for maximum damage to be caused by the Master.
It is midnight all over the world at the same time, put it down to the massive time distortion.
* The scientists don't actually know what's causing the freak weather conditions, that's just what they're telling the media so there isn't a worldwide panic.
*Firstly, we don't actually know he is half-human, he could just be being facetious. Sure, he's gone on about being a Time Lord before but how many times has Spock called himself a Vulcan while knowing full well he is half and half?
And maybe it's only in this incarnation the Doctor has mellowed enough to come to terms with this fact.
*The first kiss was one of joy and surprise, he probably wasn't quite sure what he was doing, still muddled after rediscovering who he was. As for the one at then, he probably just did it as a parting gift for Grace, sad because she wouldn't come with him and that she is naive enough to think they could have a relationship... remember Cameca in The Aztecs.
* Grace and Chang coming back to life: Maybe it was residual energy from the Eye of Harmony? Or the Master's life force that resurrects them?
* Hair style change - don't know about you but if I had done all that running around over several hours my hair would adopt several poses as well, some messy, and some quick-fixes running my hands through it.
* Isn't it a baridium atomic clock? He needed a vital component to start the TARDIS again because he had an idea of what the Master would do. No one would have batted an eyelid if he'd gone looking for mercury...
* What indication was there the Professor was a Bhuddist? I didn't pick that up and have seen this film at least five times.
* From what I read, they cut a shot of the gang at the start with some weapons or some of the shooting or something.

or maybe we could just shut our eyes and wish really hard for the telemovie to be consider non-canon

Seriously though, I think the buddist bit was implied from when he found out the clock didn't work- the hand movement he made. Also the silly Dalke voices were probably because no-one appeared to have bothered to watch any episode of Doctor Who before writing this horrible and flawed production (IMHO of course)

It could be possible they didn't have the neccesary devices to make the Dalek voices. When they made Destiny, the director said they had a lot of trouble achieving them. Or maybe it was Day Of... well, it was one of them.
They liked the religious imagery in this one, didn't they? Bhuddism and the resurrection of Christ? Anyone spot any others?
Bhuddism is popular in Doctor Who (Planet of The Spiders, Kinda) - seems odd no one has picked up on some of the other religions _ Muslim etc

Well, jokes about the smurf-like voices aside, those voices crying "Exterminate" at the start would seem to indicate Daleks were present.

Right, I think I`ve finally worked out what happened at the end. Grace repaired the TARDIS just in time and it got away from Earth, making sure that no damage was done. A Temporal Orbit (orbiting around a certain period in time without entering it) was entered so as not to cause any more damage to that time period - the TARDIS was letting the Eye of Harmony cool off, so to speak. Incidently, it`s not the real Eye - merely a link to the one on Gallifrey. The Eye then used the Master`s lifeforce to resurrect Grace and Lee, before returning to Earth in 1999, where the Eye caused no more damage as it had "cooled down". All that stuff about going back in time was just them trying to get away from the time period where the damage had been caused. Now, does anyone want to hazard a guess at why only a human could open the Eye?

I was just thinking about the "I'm half-human, on my mother's side" line the other day. What, as the professor assumes, it really is a joke? The Doctor's just mucking about to bug him slightly? Not everything the Doctor says is gospel, surely? He does have a sense of humour after all... we might all be up in arms about nothing.

This is a good point. Perhaps every incarnation of the Doctor, of Time Lords in general?, loses or muddles personal details.

The First Doctor has a language thing, often mis-pronouncing words and phrases, the Third Doctor gets his age so wrong perhaps he is guessing,the Sixth forget his niceties and dress sense, Peter Cushing forgets his name by happily responding to "Dr Who" (shudder) and the Eighth, well, why not be confused? He found himself on Earth and perhaps genuinely felt he ought to try and fit in. What he didn't tell us was that he's also human on his father's side! :')

Theory #422 could be more workable, however. Now, the Master mind-melds with the Doctor to borrow his sight - if only temporarily - through the Eye to see what the Doctor sees. Perhaps - hold onto your hats because I haven't really thought this through - this fusion which unlocks the mind to allow this may have a side-effect. With the interface open, the Master learns from the Doctor and the Doctor from him. So maybe in his addled state the Doctor skimmed off a part of the Master in return - perhaps it is the Master who is half-human!

With a part of the Master imprinted on the Doctor's psyche, a Valeyard might one day have been borne from this down the line. A future slip might have the Doctor saying "Not even the Tissue Compression Eliminator will get me out of this!"

Theory #423 has Professor Wagg being a Time Lord. Oh yes, his ohm-ohmming is so K'Anpo. The Doctor may recognise him as he may have Goronwy, and made a mild stab at Wagg - who has a human mother. Wagg's weak laugh and looks for support to Grace 'oh this man is surely an idiot' can be interpreted as such, should we assume Matthew Jacobs a deep writer.

That's the last time I go up in arms about it, anyhow.

I just chalk up the "I'm half-human" abd related bits to post-regenerative trauma. Considering the fourth Doctor dressed like a Viking for a (thankfully) brief period after his regeneration, it's not outside the realm of possibility.

But how do you explain the Doctor having human eyeballs?

Maybe the gene for human eyeballs is dominant over the Time Lord gene, rather than crossing with it to make them blended eyeballs?

Yes, but if the Doctor's claim that he's half-human is all a figment of his traumatised new brain, as Ryan suggests, then his eyeballs shouldn't have any human bits in them at all.

True. On the other hand, when did Time Lords suddenly have such radically different eyes? The Master, Meddling Monk, Drax, K'anpo, and any others I may have missed I could understand, given that they were trying not to draw too much attention to themselves (until they wanted to, that is), but the Time Lords still on Gallifrey ("The War Games", "Colony in Space", "Genesis of the Daleks" [as a projection], "The Deadly Assassin", "Arc of Infinity", "Trial of a Time Lord") all appear to have normal human-looking eyeballs.

On the other hand, Time Lord eyeballs, as seen in the movie, seem to be very susceptible to light for some reason. Gallifreyan medical science is very advanced. Perhaps the Doctor traded in his eyeballs for those of a normal humanoid. This argument, unfortunately, doesn't explain how the Doctor would keep his human eyeballs when he regenerates.

Maybe it has something to do with the Time Lord 'gift' we've seen used on languages and the Doctor just wills anyone around his person to see human eyeballs, which are less incongruous. And no, this doesn't explain why the Doctor dresses like he does either.

I give up. There's probably an answer in one of the novels. I'd hate to think he carries a spare pair of eyes around with him in his coat.

Some food for thought in this essay I found at The Time Corridor by this chap?

http://www.easystreet.com/~bgrogg/timecorridor/
Send comments to Kevin Grogg at: doctorcheese@juno.com

Here is my theory on the Doctor's sudden claim of being half-human, his father, the Eye of Harmony's need for human eyes to open it, and Susan's reasons for calling the Doctor "grandfather".

In this document I have included themes potrayed through the series: The Doctor as fully Gallifreyan; and those presented in the TV movie: the Doctor as half-human; to try and find a middle ground that will successfully eliminate the gaping discrepancies that have been created between two very different Doctor Who visions. The drastic alterations to Doctor Who were the headstrong ambitions of a director who wished to mold the series into something new, and ultimately appealing to American viewers. With this single move he has upset many cherished Doctor Who traditions, but I do not believe that just because of this, all continuity is lost. It is my aim, through this document, to intergrate these two contrasting mythologies into one that will rebalance the Doctor Who saga. Doctor Who has never had perfect continuity, but neither has it had such claims shake it's foundations. A small variance in continuity is inevitable, but a deliberate misconstruance of what a series is based upon should not tolerated. My theories are as follows:

There has been many questions as to why the Doctor, until the recent television movie has never mentioned his humanity before. My belief is that the reason the Doctor has never mentioned this is that until his recent regeneration he wasn't human, Gallifreyan to the fullest. It was the incidents that lead up to his seventh regeneration that determined his eight self as part human.

After being shot, and no doubt losing much blood, the Doctor was taken to the hospital via ambulance. En route, he was given blood in order to sustain him. Unless Gallifreyan blood is much like that of humans, we can assume that the Doctor was given human blood as on the view screen from the probe we see human red blood cells flowing through his veins. After his death, the human blood would still be fresh in his body. His regenerating so soon after this transfusion, may have been the necessary catalyst to the Doctor's becoming in part, human. The process merged the mixed human and Gallifreyan genetic structures in his blood, thus making the Doctor half-human.

The Master too, claimed the Doctor to be half-human, but noting that the Master took over the body of the paramedic who was the very person who would have administerd the blood tranfusion, plus the Master's extensive knowledge of Gallifreyan regeneration, would have led him to the same conclusion that it was the Doctor's regeneration that had made him human.

The Doctor makes a joke about being half human, on his mother's side, which could be left at just what it was: a joke. He wasn't joking about his humaness, but made up the bit about his mother too give him the necessary shock effect to steal the pass from the professor.

But what about the Doctor claiming to have a father? A very good theory about the origins of Gallifrey and the Time Lords, laid out in the book A History of the Universe (pgs. 269-73), sheds some light on this. Gallifrey was left a sterile world after a disaster befell the planet (which I won't go into depth on). To preserve the Gallifreyan race, a bio-genetic device, known as a Loom was devised. The various Chapterhouses of Gallifrey were organized into Families, each belonging to a seperate House, a semi-sentient structure (much like a TARDIS) with a low-level of conciousness and a strong connection to the Family that inhabited it. These Looms were installed in each House and a set number of members was engineered from the Loom. Since the members were only semi-related, each member was in effect a Cousin to the other. Each family was overseen by a Senior Cousin.

When the Doctor mentions his father he may have been referring to the Senior Cousin of his House back on Gallifrey. If family members were actually all Cousins, then parents do not exist on Gallifrey, so it would seem absurd for the Doctor to refer to a real Father, at this would be impossible. The term "Father" was instead a term of endearment to a much respected figure, the Senior Cousin whom the Doctor looked up to. This theory would adequately explain also why Susan called the Doctor, "Grandfather" when it seems the Doctor could not possibly have children, seeing his low-level interest in his numerous female companions. Instead, the Doctor, perhaps after the Senior Cousin he called "Father" had died, became Senior Cousin himself. Susan was actually another member of the Doctor's Family, and her calling him "Grandfather" was also a term of endearment to the very grandatherly person we knew the First Doctor to be.

Why though did the Eye of Harmony in the TARDIS have to be opened by human eyes? Well, as we know the TARDIS, like the Houses, has a strong telepathic link to it's inhabitants. As soon as the Doctor became part human, the mental link with the TARDIS altered who could open the Eye. Before this it could only be opened by a Gallifreyan as the Doctor fully was. But now that he, or at the least his retnal structure was human, the TARDIS would only register human eyes as able to open the Eye.

Remember, these are just my theories, and I hope you have found it has given you a more plausible argument of why the Doctor is half-human. I know there have been many forums and discussions as to whether the Doctor is half-human, whether he has always been half-human, or whether the new movie was just some terrible mistake that should be sweeped under the carpet. I hope I have given you a more pleasing theory concerning this mystery and hope you will give me your feedback as to what you think about it.

I've come up with a few explanations for the aspects of this Telemovie which the more pretentious fans found a little hard to swallow (to put it mildly). Most of these points can be rationalised by the fact that similar things happerned in the series as well. Remember this was intended to try & keep everyone happy, & feat harder than balancing a 1Kg weight on a pinhead. I've used an off air copy of the BBC transmission for this study & I don't know what's missing. I could have bourght an Australian (Uncut) edition of the video at Monopticon 5, but I didn't have the 100 odd Pounds it was sold for. So it must be popular with someone, & I don't think I would have been more suprised if someone turned up dressed as Lon from Snakedance. (A feat less sad than paying a vast amount for you-know-what.)

Judging my their track records I'd guess the Daleks & The Master plotted together a way to get rid of The Doctor, & get The Master a new body. (I presume he can fully take over Timelord or Trakenite body, but a human one won't be able to cope.)

One major grumble is the Eye Of Harmony being the power source of the Tardis, (as opposed to the source of the Timelords power,) but almost every time The Key Of Rassilon was featured it had changed function.

Another niggle was The Doctor claim to be half-human, but he only says it as an off the cuff remark, as he has done loads of times before (Often saying things that can't be true). The Master does notice this when looking into the Eye Of Harmony, but he's rather off his cake due to an unstable body takeover, & TARDIS could be distorting things to confuse The Master, as could the CIA, or it could be an effect of The Doctor's hospital treatent & regeneration, or he's doing one of his plots within plots..... (It's one thing to spot a nit, but another to think up an explanation.)

The use of Prof. Wagg's clock's chip which slots stright into the Tardis is a little too convenient, but don't forget this was the cast in "The Invisible Enemy" & "Full Circle", & the clock's desigh could have been based on one of the Doctor's projects from his time with UNIT, & Prof. Wagg somehow found the desigh & copied it. (Now this could explain why the Tardis lands in San Fransisco in 1999, so The Doctor can get a replacement part, & because it's on his favourite planet he's going to try harder to defeat The Master. The funny ways of the Tardis or some CIA manipulation at work?)

One other bother was the Doctor using "Cloking Device" instead of "Chameleon circuit". Well, The Doctor is in America & I suppose he's making things simple my using a term familiar to Grace. (He must have got borred during his time in exile, & started watching Star Trek to remind him of adventures in space.) The Doctor has made things simple many times before, & lots of Tardis features have changed name & function.

The Daleks probably wouldn't work with the Master. I like the idea in THe 8 Doctors, where the Master goes to Skaro knwing that he will be killed.

The Eye of Harmony stuff has already been explained in the 8 Doctors. It's just a link back to the 'real' Eye of Harmony, but presumably just used as a convenient term.

I don't buy the cloaking device thing. If Ian and Barbara could understnd chameleon circuit, why couldn't Grace. And a cloaking device makes things invisible.

I really don't buy the 'Doctor trying to throw people off' excuse for being half-human. He doesn't leave it open in anyway, he specificly states several times that he is half-human, and is independently backed up by the Master. The EDAs have done a much better job, making in it ambiguos, especially Unnatural History, which specualtes that the Doctor has many different origins, all locked into his biodata.

I may have read somewhere that the term "chameleon circuit" was only first used in Logopolis in 1981. Can someone confirm this?

James Stoker, or Mr Anagram of Master's Joke: if someone is offering a copy of the telemovie for 100 pounds from Australia, you're being ripped off. That equates to about $250 here and I'm sure several video shops would still carry it and, even with postage to the UK, would certainly not go above $100 (about 35 pounds or so?).

James, if the telemovie was trying to keep everyone happy, why (oh why oh why...) did it mention the fatal words 'half human'?????? The non-fan audience surely wouldn't care one way or the other, whilst real fans would be driven to the brink of suicide.

Chris- almost certain Susan mentions it to I & B in An Unearthly Child 2. I'm pretty sure the term chameleon circuit is used. But I may well be wrong. I might check later.

I'm wrong.

I thought I was certain too but I had a feeling it *wasn't* mentioned in the first story... so any other references to it before Logopolis?

Just thinking: all that time distortion at work in this one around the world... the millennium bug causing havoc, perhaps? :)~

Thinking again: does the Doctor go around maintaining all those lit candles in the TARDIS and replace them when they've melted?

That Video was in an auction & did hit the 100 pounds mark. The BBC's copy of the Telemove must have most of the Half Human references cut out, becuase I can count only 3, one quip to Gareth by the Doctor, (Tom Baker did this kind of thing every other episode, Like claiming he went fishing with the venerable Bede in the River Fleet.) The Master only mentions it twice, & the first time it could be to win over Chang Lee. By the way my Name realy is James Stoker, & I didn't find out it was an anagram of Master's Joke until I read Roger Foulton's book of TV Sci Fi.

Additonal I've never read any orginal books.

The BBC's copy is not edited. I just exaggerate. Why would the Master use it to win over Lee? Doesn't work very well 'He's half-human... oh I mean, I was half-human.'

Gareth???

Anyway, go read some of the books, cause they're much more interesting. 100 quid would buy you twenty of them rather than 1 TVM (!?!?!?).

Well, even if it was at an auction, you're still being ripped off.

Chris, I'm sure the candles are everlasting, just like those everlasting matches Hartnell had.

Nice comeback. So I guess it's some form of non-meltable wax?

The candles, as with the rest of that room, implied some sort of religiousness. Was it simply a style thing, or does the Doctor follow a god? Hmmm...

Candles imply religiousness? Since when? I burn candles in my house all the time, sans praying.

I'm sure the reasons for the candles were (a) to set a mood (gloom), and (b) to show off the Doctor's fondness for mixing high and low tech.

It's also possible that they were not candles, but instead some advanced Gallifreyan lighting device made to LOOK like a candle. The fact that they don't melt would support this theory.

I found the Virgin books very hard to read becuase you have to know all of the Whoniverse & all previous novels to be able to fully understand them, not to mention the "raunchy" feel to most of the books that can be rather disturbing. All in all rather off putting. I'll just use my money to buy any videos going cheap.

Er, have you read any of the BBC novels. This applies to few of them, and really only a few of the Virgins.

Didn't recall Nightshade suffering from this problem, except for a bits about Susan in it.

Not JUST the candles, Mike. I too like the candle. I'm also referring to the, (and I can't recall the opening so be forgiving), the stone animal head looking down, the way he carries the Master's casket, the almost tunnel-like lay-out of the room - a path ending at what could be interpreted as an altar.

As for James Stoker, if you do buy 'cheap videos', be sure not to buy The Five Doctors, The Two Doctors, or The Three Doctors then.

I guess I'm in the minority but I like The Five Doctors.

Same here, Chris. While they aren't the greatest Dr.Who shows, it was a lot of fun watching the different Doctors playing off each other. You really get the feel of friendly antagonism with each other.

I've always found it a good way to introduce people to Doctor Who, to give them a feel for a few different Doctors.

I like "The five Doctors" myself.

I like it too! I meant it as regarding continuity and James Stoker's distrust and suspicion of it.

Actually James, if you think the NAs have a lot of continuity references, get this- there were a few TV stories made before the books. And guess what- they had a lot of continuity references too, from name dropping of old companions, to full on sequels to other stories. What •••••• ideas! Get of this continuity rubbish. Every story should stand alone, ignoring all others.

;-)

(looks at where he'd posting and grins)

I do like the 5 Doctors, mainly becuase it doesn't take things so seriously. I admit the odd mention a previous story element is OK, if done correctly. One problem about ignoring continuity is a story which totally contradicts a previous story. (like with Underwater Menace & The Time Monster) The Missing Adventures are a bit annoying when the include loads of elements from future episodes, which couldn't have been known at the time. Goth Opera is a very good example of this. I call this bad use of past references the Cornell effect, after the author who tends to do it the most.

I think the idea with Goth Opera was to show you could do all those things with the Missing Adventures, as launched the series - Cornell admits now he wished he cut back the continuity chapter (the one that has Glitz, Romana and so on).
Don't recall Cornell's Love & War having to many continuity references - it was set during the Draconian/Earth war, so the mention was warranted, and there was a passing reference to Abslom Daak from memory.

A year and two days ago, Chris Thomas wrote:

In Lance Parkin's Cold Fusion he came up for an explanation for the Eye in the TARDIS - apparently every TARDIS has one as a power source and they a direct link with the Eye Of Harmony on Gallifrey to get their power.

I haven't read Cold Fusion, but it can't be true of every TARDIS, as Time Flight demonstrates. The Master had exhausted his Dynomorphic Generator and transfered the Xeraphins (sp?) to the center of his TARDIS for a new power source. No mention is made of the Eye of Harmony.

Maybe the Time Lords had cut off the Master's power source because he's such a bad guy? Maybe he accidentally destroyed his Eye of Harmony in his TARDIS in some botched experiment and had to find a new way of powering his TARDIS?

Makes sense. The Timelords must be able to aim the Harmony's power beams at the individual TARDISes roaming around in time and space. Makes me wonder why they didn't cut the power in the Doctor's, the Rani's, the Meddling Monk's, etc TARDISes. Unless the Timelords are just blindly broadcasting the power, but has it scrambled, like satelite broadcasts. The Master just hasn't figured out a way to decipher the encryption to steal the power of the Eye.

I thought of the "Why didn't they cut off the Doctor's power as well?" question, which is why a botched Master experiment could be another explanation/

I'm still reading through this page, but I can't help saying-What the heck is everyone's problem with Doctor Who having a girlfriend?

I'm still reading through this page, but I can't help saying-What the heck is everyone's problem with Doctor Who having a girlfriend?

Probably because he had seven lives previously without having romantic involvement with anyone, so the idea probably seems foreign to many - he survived this long without a girlfriend, why does he need one now?

I always thought the Doc had an affair with Tegan, behind the scenes. But that's just me, though.

There was a piece of fanfic written by someone once that had Tegan visiting her doctor after she came back from her TARDIS travels and he found she was pregnant and there were two heartbeats when he listened with his stethoscope.

Whoa, where's that fanfic?

And as for him survining that long, all the more reason why he should have one now.

Any anyway, she wasn't his girlfriend- the 8th Doctor just nieve enough to believe that that was just an innocent kiss. :-P

Maybe the Doctor's survived for so long by not getting involved in messy relationships.

But he can get out of those relationships pretty easy, if he wanted. Maybe by using the "I've been summoned to Gallifrey and you are not allowed to go there" gag. Before you get the wrong idea, I am not saying the Doc had an affair with Sarah (I certainly don't think that), just a useful way of ending things.

It is interesting that Tegan left the Doc because she was sick of all the violence, unlike quite a few companions who were just homesick (or killed, or forced back with amnesia, or left behind for no apparent reason, or fell in love and married some goofball, killed but not really and married some goofball, etc). Maybe she was pregnant and was worried about herself and the kid getting killed. Certainly I can't imagine the Doctor settling down to change diapers.

Men! They're all the same - mention long-term commitment and they're all scurrying off in their TARDISes.

What about that Aztec Woman he shares a cup of cocoa with?

Cameca? She seemed more interested than the Doctor was, and he had to extricate himself from the situation.

He had a good excuse, too. The whole 'can't mess with history' sort of thing. He is a wiley devil, that Doctor.

The Doctor not interested in Cameca? I'd say he was pleasantly surprised and, dare I say it, taken with the idea. He seemed all humbled and shy in her presence, if I recall, and for this emotion to exist, he must therefore have the basic feelings of love. Susan also exists, and again, for this, he must therefore have a rudimentary grasp of sexual emotion. I think the Doctor was game. He was using her, yes, but he did have the look of a 'wiley devil' in his eye, the randy lovepot. :0

An idea he perhaps knew he could not follow?

I suspect he was sorely tempted. There definately was some chemistry going on. Enough maybe to go to the 1990's to get some Viagra, who knows? His TARDIS at the time was not very reliable.

A doctor watched the telemovie with me and when the Doctor pulled down Grace's face mask in the surgery and then she pulled it up again she was aghast - apparently it means it's not sterile any more and Grace would have to get a new one.

And when the Doctor flatlines and they decide to him the electric jolt... she says you need to have some semblance of a heartbeat before you can do that and need to inject the patient with a shot of adrenalin to get some slight fibrillation first. But she admitted most films and TV shows got it wrong.

Heck! Where are Hawkeye Pierce and B.J.Hunnicutt when you need them???

I was just thinking... there was a lot of hype about the millennium bug leading up to 2000 yet no one in San Francisco seemed too concerned. OK, we know everything is all right now but isn't it a little surprising, not even in the hospital is it mentioned?

As someone involved in his company's Y2K contingency plan, I can say that the hospital staff's attitude was pretty normal. By 12/30/1999, everyone I know was bored to tears with the whole Millenium issue. If you weren't on the Y2K team, you cared even less.

Also, by 12/31/1999, there wasn't much to talk about. Either you had plans in place and you were ready, or you didn't and just didn't care.

That's true, Mike, but the news reports here were talking about it on New Year's Eve and there was a news report in this film - and it's surprising they didn't even make a passing reference to it.

It's been about five years since the TV Movie - five whole years! I have to say that the five years since the TV Movie have gone a lot, lot quicker than the five years before it, which dragged it's feet in the dirt for an interminable while. I bring this up simply because I saw the first three minutes of 'Cutthroat Island' the other day, (it was terrible, which was try I didn't try for four), and John Debney was credited with the score of that film. Logical progression made me think of his contribution to Doctor Who and how exciting the opening credits had been when I had first saw the film in '96. The Master's eyes spinning away to be replaced by a whopping great logo and a time tunnel effect. If there was one fabulous thing about the film aside from McGann, it was that opening two minutes. My God it was thrilling. Every time I hear that Debney opening theme, the nostalgia of that '96 feeling comes back - it was new, I'd never seen it or heard about it from programme guides before, it was fresh, it was special. It still is, despite the flack and plot frustrations all these postings testify. But a part of me will like it in the same way I like The Five Doctors and many other stories - of a time and place and emotion. Doctor Who WAS back, HMV had cardboard TARDISes, Cyberman t-shirts amongst The Simpsons ones, and it was really quite a long time ago when you think about it. Since then, no event has topped that euphoria. CoFD was exciting, but still just a sketch in the shadow of DiT. I guess thinking about it the other day has made me think just how quickly Time flies.

And, just to beat the mad rush, I know that it's nearer four years since the movie and nearer six years between Survival and the film - but heck! What's a year or two? This isn't really a nitpick, more a deep reflection that transcends plot discrepencies and niggles. And, I think, worth a thought or two.

I understand the emotion part - when I first saw the TARDIS spinning in the vortex at the start, I had a tear of joy well up in my eye. It was BACK and way beyond tome, too. Oh, BBC/FOX how you toyed with my emotions when no series was forthcoming.

I meant time, not tome.

There's a implied explanation for the Doctor being half-human in 'Lungbarrow' that no one has mentioned here yet.

SPOILERS FOR LUNGBARROW
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Ahem, Leela (who is human) and Andred (who is Gallifreyan) are the Doctor's parents.

Whoah, what drugs are you on (and why aren't you sharing)? As interesting as that is, I cannot possibly believe Andred is the father of the Doctor. I would rather believe he is the son of Davros and Rani.

Hear, hear, Luiner. Where on Earth was that mentioned in Lungbarrow, Luke? I know it was a bad book, but it wasn't THAT bad.

It wasn't so much mentioned, but it was definetaly implied. Um, I can't remember how exactly, look it up in 'I, Who', I think it says something there as well.

I'm not saying I agree, but i *did* think it was quite an amusing idea.

Wait a minute, I thought Jo Grant and that shmuck she ran off with (who was secretly a Time Lord hippie) were the Doctor's parents?

Hang on, I just remembered another theory I heard.
Professor Joyce (who is Salyavin/Chronotis) is the Doctor's Time Lord father and Penelope (from 'The Room With No Doors') is the Doctor's human mother.

No, no, you all have it all wrong. Sapphire was the Doctor's mother and Steel was his father. Or was it Dangermouse father and Penfold mother?

"Oooh, crumbs!"
"Shush, Penfold."

My mistake. The Doctor is obviously the love child of John Steed and Emma Peel. Carry on what you were just doing.

No no no. The Doctor is the son of a carpenter and a virgin...

Oh, my Lord! I mean, oh, my Time Lord!

Okay, everyone here who thinks we're getting a little carried away with this, raise their hands.....

I was - although the bit where McGann sticks his arms out and yells "Who am I?", he kind of looks like a Christ figure there.

Not to mention the 'crown of thorns' he wears on his head at the end when the Master 'crucifies' him.

Man, I really got to get a copy of this story, I never knew there was so much in it.

And so several months (almost eight, wow) I get a copy of the telemovie after my last post.

Some thoughts of this, which by the way I haven't seen since original broadcast on FOX.

If you happen to be in San Francisco, do not get sick. I know the US healthcare system isn't perfect, especially if you're poor, but this is tragic. First off, the ambulance guy can treat you without a signature on some form. The Doctor then gets to a big city public hospital, where a few minor bullet wounds are treated. They shoot his chest x-ray several times before giving up on getting one that shows one heart. They then call a cardiovascular surgeon from the opera house. What happened to the surgeon who is on standby at the hospital? Big hospitals have all sorts of specialists on site just in case something like this happens. Okay, maybe he or she is busy. Dr Grace scrubs up in her party dress instead of changing into scrubs. She starts to operate without a reliable x-ray. Probably no EKG, either, which would be totally unreliable with two hearts. I don't know of a single cardio surgeon who would do this. Actually I use to, but he had his licence strip away.

Speaking of the x-ray, I took a look at it. It had one heart where it was supposed to be (though the film was hung backwards, which is common on TV). That big white blob right in the middle, slightly off center is the heart. There are two masses in his lung fields, however. If I were a doctor, I would've thought he had a mass in each lung, possibly from lung cancer. By the way, parts of this story reminds of Spearhead from Space. I half expected the Brigadier to walk in at any moment.

Anyways, the hospital is a malpractice suit from being shut down. Do not go to this hospital if you value your life. There are so many things wrong with this hospital I don't have time and the website probably doesn't have the memory for me to detail them all. If anybody has seen Hospital with George C. Scott and Diana Rigg, I can tell you the Telemovie hospital was much worse.

Interesting to see Will Sasso playing the morgue tech before his Mad TV days.

I like the TARDIS interior. You can tell the producers were optimistic in thinking the series would continue. It was big, which was important to show how much bigger on the inside than out the TARDIS was. How the Master manage to get in without the key, I have no idea.

The Master played by what's his name, however I didn't like. The Master in the series was evil, but he had panache. He didn't break necks like Steven Seagal. He would used the miniturizer or have some henchmen do his killing for him. He is very much like a James Bond villain. And most importantly, he had a sense of humour, which this Master did not have.

Grace, while very very attractive, was a bimbo. Perfect companion, in other words. Come on, I know she is vulnerable because she broke up with her boyfriend, but to fall for some guy with a morgue's toe tag speaking about the end of the world? Maybe I should try it? Who knows, this could be the secret to picking up chicks...I mean forge meaningful relationships with the chicks...Women, Women! Argh!

Paul McGann's performance was pretty good. He had a style that was very reminiscent of the McCoy. I was pleasantly surprised. Except when he went on about his half human nature, he was convincing as the Doctor. Why he kissed her, I don't know. Maybe it was post regeneration distress syndrome. Or maybe he has been celibate for very long time and needed a kiss, even if it was from the person that caused his regeneration. I wished the series had continued, because I am now thinking he would have made a great Doctor.

Interesting how the Master used the Daleks to bring the Doctor to him so he could use the Doc's remaining lives. But it was so totally out of character for the Daleks have a show trial you would think the Timelords and the Doctor would've known something smelled fishy.

I am not even going to mess with the Eye of Harmony business, or the fact you need human eyeballs to open it.

All in all, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. It had potential. This could've been a good series, if given a chance. I was really surprised how good McGann was.

they're called breasts, vyvyan, and everybody has them...

Luiner, I'm not convinced about the Roberts Master not having a sense of humour. His 'Chang Lee is the son I've always yearned for' is hilarious.

If not as funny as the opening narration - 'They say he listened calmly as his list of evil crimes was read out...' Excuse me? WHO, precisely, said that the Master listened calmly? The Daleks were the only ones who'd know, and I don't picture them taking the time to tell the Doctor 'HE LIST-ENED CARE-FULL-Y AS HIS LIST OF E-VIL CRIMES WAS READ OUT' inbetween shrieking 'IT IS THE DOC-TOR! THE DOC-TOR IS AN EN-EM-Y OF THE DAL-EKS! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!' as they chase the ashes-clutching figure around (the late lamented) Skaro.

The Roberts Master also had the 'as WELL as you' comment to Grace.

Well, maybe Eric Robert's Master has a crude sort of humour, kind of the one liner rim shot kind of way. Let's face it. The guy had no style. It is hard to believe it is the same guy during the Pertwee era.

Interesting, that the Daleks allowed the Doctor to pick up the remains of the Master from Skaro. If it was a plot, the Daleks are being unusually subtle. Also, Remembrance of the Daleks had Skaro destroyed by the hand of Omega. But what is time to a Timelord?

It was all a Dalek stealth plan - they let the Doctor take the Master's remains and looked what happened... he almost destroyed the Earth (universe), if he'd returned to Gallifrey as intended there's no telling what damage would've been done.

I'm not convinced that the Daleks LET the Doctor take the remains - a) When Romana gave the Doctor the message (Lungbarrow) she said he only had a 4% chance of surviving it, which suggests that the Daleks wouldn't exactly welcome him with open plungers, and b) the fact that the Doctor got clean away with it in no way indicates that a few million Daleks didn't do their utmost to stop him. Let's face it, the Doctor v Daleks score is currently several hundred thousand to nil.

Well, at least if the snake-Master had got loose on Gallifrey, he wouldn't have been able to open the Eye of Harmony, as *groan, sigh, roll eyes* it can only be opened by human eyeballs...

Until he finds out that Leela is living on Gallifrey, human eyeballs and all.

>>'HE LIST-ENED CARE-FULL-Y AS HIS LIST OF E-VIL CRIMES WAS READ OUT' inbetween shrieking 'IT IS THE DOC-TOR! THE DOC-TOR IS AN EN-EM-Y OF THE DAL-EKS! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!'

Everyone in this tent is wondering why I'm crying right now (with laughter). I can hear that Dalek voice so clearly....

Actually, I haven't seen this movie, just read the synopsis on this and the DW Reference Site, but I've been wondering for a while now why there's a problem with the Doctor "suddenly" becoming romantic with a woman (any woman, not just Grace). There's no reason to presume Gallifreyans come upon puberty at the same time we do; that is, shortly before reaching physical maturity. Perhaps they don't become sexually active till they hit the thousand-year point? Maybe it's a byproduct of being genetically engineered (which they seem to be, what with all this Loom stuff). It would explain why all those lovely young things can travel around the universe alone with this guy without being molested.

Finally got a chance to see and hear this one. What a lost opportunity. The history of the FOX network is littered with shows that were canned after 3, 5, or 7 episodes. Why, why, why couldn't Doctor Who have been one of them? Anything to see a few more hours. A good Doctor, a nice TARDIS set, great artistic camerawork, good lighting and production values for the first time since 1976, decent special effects...a lost opportunity. The only thing missing was, well, a story. This was more of a character sketch--kind of a "meet the main character, meet his companion, meet the villain, isn't this fun?, okay now let's have an adventure"--only they canned the show before they got to the "let's have an adventure" part. Would have been great to see this team in a story with an actual script.

Better hope you never get injured in San Francisco. The clock is chiming 9 when Grace calls for an ambulance. Next scene, they've just gotten into the ambulance, the Doctor asks what time it is, and Grace says, "10:30." Where does Grace live...Oakland?

About the half-human thing. The Doctor's comment to the scientist, by itself, could have been treated as a mischievous joke. The Master's comment is what needs to be explained away. So here goes: The Eye of Harmony is showing a close-up of a human eyeball, and the Master says, "That's a human retinal pattern." The scene cuts to Grace and Doctor in the park, and the Doctor is just pulling back from kissing her. So their faces are still pretty much together. Cut back to the TARDIS, and the Eye of Harmony is showing everything the Doctor sees through his own eyes--till he realizes what's going on and shuts them. Okay--when did the EoH stop showing flashbacks and start showing the Doctor's view? Maybe it was right when that big eye appeared. What was the Doctor doing at the time? Just finishing kissing Grace, and then opening his eyes. Since their faces were about an inch apart when he opens his eyes, what would he see first? (Dramatic pause.) Grace's eyes. Which then showed up in the EoH. The Master, who has been known to make mistakes from time to time, thought it was the Doctor's retinal pattern he was seeing, when it was actually Grace's. Which explains why it was human (says Eric confidentally, desperately hoping that the eye colors match.)

Grace gets dropped off on December 31, a few seconds before midnight, based on all the people counting down in the previous scene. Let's see...she's just quit her job, pointed a gun at a police officer, shot a police radio, and stolen a police vehicle. The Doctor should have been saying, "Come with you? Me, come with you? To jail? No, thank you."

Why did the Daleks put the Master of all people on trial?
He didn't do any harm to them…well mind you he was planning to something to them at the end of Frontier in Space
Plus Skaro was destroyed.
It was a waste of time
and the Dalek voices are as bad as the voices of the Invasion Cybermen.

Maybe the Draconians should have put the Master on trial that would have worked.
But they aren’t really that famous, one of the famous one-hit wonders like the Zygons but not as famous as the Daleks I mean.

I assume it had to do with an untelivized story, but more to the point, why would the Daleks EVER put someone on trial? Because they wanted to give him a fair chance at justice? This means they would have to not exterminate him first. And do they have Judge Daleks, who wear powdered wigs? Is the fate decided by the Judge Dalek or a jury of Daleks? Are there District Attorney Daleks, Prosecutor Daleks, Barrister Daleks, etc? Do they cross-examine to try to trap the accused in logical arguements?

*After accidently misreading "Judge Dalek" as "Judge Judy Dalek", Merat falls over laughing.*


Well, I haven't seen many Dr. Who stories before seeing this telemovie, so I'm saying this as a relitive newcommer to the series. I enjoyed it. Not as much as I enjoyed the few episodes of the series that I've seen, but I did enjoy it.

I finally got a copy of this... event... and I have to say I'm not sure what to make of it.

About that post-regenerative scene... the Doctor was a tad too Jesus-like for my taste, and I'm definitely not prepared to go down that road!

I, too, was wondering how the Master got into the TARDIS without a key (maybe he found it above the door).

And speaking of the TARDIS, WHAT HAPPENED? The cloister room looked like a d*mn cathedral and let's not mention the console living room (even if it did look way cool).

The Master: "That explains it. The Doctor is half-human!" You're right, Emily; what a load of rubbish. Still, Paul McGann would've have made a pretty decent Doctor had the original series continued (and he had better dress sense).

The Master bore a striking resemblance to a young James Woods. But what was with the eyes? Tremas' eyes didn't go all reptilian when the Master took him over (perhaps it was the influence of the Source).

So the TARDIS ate the Master. Well. That was unexpected. What will he tell the High Council when he gets back? "Yes, of course I retrieved his remains! 4% indeed!... Where are they? Well, um, that is... would you come with me to the cloister room?"

What do prior canonical sources say about the location of Gallifrey? Is it supposed to be in our galaxy or, as the Doctor points out at the end, Andromeda?

You know, American action/humor and British dry wit sci-fi icon do not go well together. Score two for Emily: A thoroughly souless production.

But what was with the eyes? Tremas'eyes didn't go all reptilian when the Master took him over (perhaps it was the influence of the Source).

I read somewhere that it was the effect of the animalistic influence taking over the Master in "Survival."

One thing that this movie did right was the opening theme. I have read that they were planning on creating an entirely new theme for the show, but decided to go with a version of the original theme. And it sounds really good.

Heaven forbid they would use a different theme! And I have mixed feelings on this new theme; on one hand, yes it sounds good, very orchestral, not remotely "cheesy." And yet the various versions of the original ... they're just so memorable. Just my 2 cents.

For me, THE theme is the early Tom Baker wormhole one.

Yes!

Mandy, what precisely have you got against the Doctor as our Lord and Saviour?

Ah, well, given my own atheism and the Doctor's tendency to destroy as well as save, I'm just not prepared to accept him as divine. The road to hell is paved with good intentions (think anyone's pointed that out to him yet?).

I checked a web-site that lists the weather in San Francisco, and found that it didn't rain on the night of December 30th/ early morning December 31. Drat! I was hoping the producers had correctly predicted it, and it wasn't a real-life nit.

Well, having the planet sucked inside-out a few times that night was bound to mess up the weather...

Mandy, all good gods are vicious ******** who destroy as well as save. Personally, I have the Doctor to thank for my ability to throw off all that childhood Catholic propaganda and become an atheist - as you're only allowed one Saviour then obviously I had to choose the Doc rather than that Baby Jesus bloke.

Wasn't the biblical analogy just there to show new viewers the Doctor had been re-born; not imply he was the Saviour?

ok chris as asked i am here. while i can accept the kiss. i still think it was non really something the doctor wound do i thought "ok so doctor 8 is a lot more emotional then then the other 7. but then they did the half human thing. i will not get into the master shapeshifting or the eye of harmony being in the tardis unstead of galefrey. they is way too much proof agaist the half human thing off the top of my head
1.he can regenerate!
2.2 hearts
3.the has the rassalon imprimercher(he has to control the tardis.
4.the has telepathic powers
5.he is well known to the time lords
and as i have said before on this and other boards if anyone can give me proof that was/is ay clue to the half human nonsense in any ep/story before the movie and i will rethink it but......
1.Don't brother with why else does he come here so often as that was explained by
A.he likes the planet/we are important space/time point/ and we had to make sure the silver nememsis and the hand of omega were still safe.

It's been a while since I saw the movie, but I kind of remember one reason that the Doctor kissed Grace was to cover up the Master's mental spying on him.

Omni, I completely agree with you on the half-human thing. I say he was joking.

But why would the Master joke about it after seeing the Doctor's retina?

And what about the whole 'needs human eye to open' business?

DID the Master see the Doctor's retina? The images the TARDIS showed were all from the Doctor's perspective. So the Master's basically seeing things through the Doctor's eyes. That's why the Doctor clamps his eyes shut as soon as he realizes what's happening. That happened right after kissing Grace. If we're seeing what the Doctor's seeing, then it was Grace's retina. I imagine the Doctor would have had a close-up view of her eyes, right before and right after the kiss.

The whole needs-a-human-eye-to-open thing can be dismissed because 1. It's silly, and 2. the Master isn't always the brightest bulb in the box.

No, the Master sees an image of the Doctor first and then sees a closeup of the Doctor's retina. *Then* he sees through the Doctor's eyes.

And with the human-eye-to-open thing, he used to Grace to open it.

It's explained in the audio The Apocalypse Element - the Daleks invade Gallifrey *sigh* and they grab a dead Time Lord's eyeballs and use them to open lots of doors so they can whizz round the Capitol, so the Doctor reprogrammes the doors to respond to his (human) Companion Evelyn's retina instead, and there's a hint at the end that this might have long-term repercussions...

ah, retcons... is there anything they can't fix?

Yeah, quite a lot actually. We still haven't got a decent explanation for the 'half-human' nonsense, though Unnatural History had a valiant attempt, along the lines of 'The Doctor has 17 streams of conflicting biodata' or somesuch thing to explain his different histories. Lawrence Miles came up with a FAR better explanation for Alien Bodies - something about the Doctor's human DNA from Human Nature contaminating his regeneration, making the Eighth Doctor half-human and retroactively infecting all his previous incarnations - but he was told to take in out on the grounds that the BBC books weren't even going to MENTION half-human-ness.

Anyone notice (well, anyone in the U.S.) Daphne Ashbrook in the show "OC" this last week? She had a small part but I knew she looked familiar. I couldn't place her until she said in an exasperated tone, "Brian!" Then I figured out who she was because she used the same tone when she was talking to Brian, her boyfriend, as Dr. Grace in the movie. Not that this was really important, or anything . . .

'I AM THE DOCTOR' - my favourite line from the movie...

If only it hadn't been followed by a kiss...

Usually, I don't understand why young people are so eager to break movies down into favorite lines, but in this case, there's really nothing else to grasp on to. Horrible movie.

I finally broke down and ordered the DVD. Could no longer stand not having the complete collection.

goog, I'm in my 30's.. I'm not a teenager.
Yes, I do like this movie - all of it. I don't mind the doctor having a father too.

I was disappointed in the movie too. Maybe I was hoping for a quirkier and more interesting Doctor characterization.
Setting the movie in San Francisco added nothing either, since the movie was filmed in Canada. If it could have been actually filmed in San Francisco (like Star Trek 4), some nice location work could have been done. The movie seemed to have a rather generic feel, probably in an attempt to appeal to non-fans. If anything, it should have celebrated its "Britishness" and have been set in London.

How very, very true. (About how it should have had a British feel, obviously. Not about it being disappointing. It was NOT disappointing. OK, it may have had a •••• plot, but I'd waited SEVEN YEARS to have the Doctor back on my screen and it was sheer joy.)

Finally watched it again after eight years. Generally fun but bloated by so much expositionary dialogue and a deus ex machina ending. Why does the hospital have rooms that are open to the elements? Surely they can afford to board up the windows? When the Doctor goes into Grace's place he tells her he has twelve lives. The overdub says thirteen but it's fairly obvious.

EIGHT YEARS????????? You waited EIGHT YEARS to have this joy again? THAT'S self-control. It must have been almost like seeing it for the first time...hm...maybe I'll try that with some of my tapes. I can live without seeing Time and the Rani for eight years, easily. Make it ten.

How long has it been since you last saw 'Time and the Rani', Emily?

I'll bet Ronald Reagan was still president!

I knew it. I bloody KNEW I should have rewatched this before the new series transformed my miserable existence, but I never got round to it, and now this source of glorious happiness has been ruined, UTTERLY RUINED, by Russell T Davies showing how the gods INTENDED Who to come back. And it sure as hell wasn't like THIS. Suddenly all (well, most) of my tearful happiness has evaporated, leaving the glaring and numerous flaws of the TVM in sharp relief.

Ah well.

'It was a request they never should have granted' - the Doctor's acting as if it was all the Time Lords' fault he ended up collecting the Master's remains. Even without Lungbarrow, we could have guessed that the Doctor volunteered for this spectacularly stupid trip to Skaro.

Why a 900 year diary? The 500 year one was a much better idea.

The TARDIS console displays some 5,000-and-something figure for the 'Rassilon era'. Meaning what, exactly? That twentieth century Earth was a mere 5,000 years after Rassy's period?

The Doctor looks remarkably terrified about the Master getting out of his box. It's not like he hasn't defeated him hundreds of times before.

WHY does a filthy violent criminal like Chang Lee (who is shortly to display a breath-taking lack of concern about the proposed destruction of his entire planet) not only escort the Doctor to hospital, but actually hang around to see if he's alright?

'What's the date?' '7.30'. Um...

'The bullet went straight through his shoulder. No damage.' And again...uh?

Would someone as used to pain as the Seventh Doctor (see every Kate Orman NA) faint and get incoherant just because he happened to have a few bullets in his leg and a hole in his shoulder?

Why did the Seventh Doctor know he needed an atomic clock BEFORE the Eye was opened?

'If you do this, I'll quit' - he's already done it, Grace! And if you're THAT against cover-ups wouldn't it be a better idea to tell the rest of the hospital AND the police about the missing body, rather than just rip up your career?

Someone explain the Bruce/nurse scene. Why does she laugh when told 'I had a bad night'? Why does she say 'You're sick' when he says 'the Asian child'? Why does he pick off his fingernails in front of her?

Why does the change in molecular structures involve the Doctor walking through glass and losing weight, and funny weather, but not a lot else?

9pm - the Doctor tells Grace the planet's going to get sucked inside out. She calls an ambulance. When they're in it it's 10.30pm. That's one slow ambulance.

I'm not the world's greatest fan of psychic paper, but GOD it would have been a better way of getting into the Institute than Grace hapening to be on the board.

Time Lords have the ability to transform into another SPECIES? Well, I suppose that explains the half-human nonsense, not to mention the snake...

The TARDIS closes the Eye out of SENTIMENT? Oh, please don't close it to save the planet, or anything, you TARDISy git.

'You've both been somewhere I've never been' says the Doctor, vis-a-vis death. Funny, earlier he claimed he'd been 'dead too long'.

Yup, that Chang Lee's a complex character, alright. Genociding the human race is just fine by him, but LYING to him...that's just not on. And he's so marvellously honest he'll hand back bags of gold dust.

How come there are stars AND Vortex swirly colours at the same time?

The Doctor is terrified because he's never faced a hube globule of the Master's snot before.

Bruce/nurse - Bruce is acting out of character; the nurse is bemused, as Bruce would obviously never phrase things this way.

Emily, sorry this movie has fallen, or plummeted, from grace in your eyes, but I'm glad those eyes are opened to how horrible this non-story is.

Writing under my previous name, I once wrote:
why would the Daleks EVER put someone on trial? Because they wanted to give him a fair chance at justice?

However, I'd forgotten that Revelation already established that Daleks have some sort of justice system as the imperial Daleks say they will take Davros to Skaro to stand trial for his crimes. Of course he was a Kaled, and a mutated one at that, so it didn't seem so odd at the time.

But the Master? In a courtroom full of Daleks? It still boggles, and hurts, the mind.

Emily, sorry this movie has fallen, or plummeted, from grace in your eyes, but I'm glad those eyes are opened to how horrible this non-story is.

But it's not faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair! I loved it dearly! And now it's betrayed me. Or I've betrayed it. One or the other.

But the Master? In a courtroom full of Daleks? It still boggles, and hurts, the mind.

Yeah, but wouldn't you rather see THAT Trial of a Time Lord than the one we actually got?

What I don't understand is why the Daleks read out a list of the Master's evil crimes at the trial. Surely they were trying him for being treacherous-and-useless vis-a-vis the Dalek race (see Frontier in Space, and possibly Legacy of the Daleks, since I remember it had Daleks n'Master in, even if I don't remember anything else) rather than for being evil per se? I mean, they're DALEKS for god's sake. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

There was discussion early in this board and somebody suggested in a sarcastic way that 90% of the movie's budget was spent on the TARDIS set. Somehow, others took this literally, which boggles the mind. No professional production would ever, EVER allow 90 % of their budget to go towards a single set, and frankly, the TARDIS interior didn't look like it could have cost that much. In simplistic terms, let's say the movie cost $1,000,000 to make. That would mean $900,000 for the TADIS, and just $100,000 for the cast, crew, writers, props, clothing, other sets, and permits to film on location. And the crew, alone would consist of cameramen, director, producers, hair stylists, makeup artists, caterers, grips, etc. And by past personal experience, I know that night-time location filming is more expense to pay for than day-time.
So, come on. Sarcastic remarks like that shouldn't be taken seriously.

Why didn't Grace ever come right out and say, "You're trying to tell me that you, an attractive man with long hair in his thirties is the SAME MAN in the hospital? The little Scotish guy in his fifties with the big eyes?!" Instead, they focus on his two hearts and the heart probe sticking out out his chest. Maybe a dropped line would have covered that.

Chris - "Doctor Who has never had perfect continuity, but neither has it had such claims (the half-human comment) shake it's foundations. A small variance in continuity is inevitable, but a deliberate misconstruance of what a series is based upon should not tolerated."

Oh, you mean an aspect such as, oh, I don't know, let's say...THE LOOMS??? I won't get into an arguement about the Looms and a sterile Gallifrey here, because I won't change anyones opinions after all this time. However, a novelist came up with such ideas, and basically re-wrote continuity by saying that Susan wasn't the Doctor's grandfather, and Gallifreyans didn't reproduce like us. Nowhere in the entire series supports this idea, but fandom, at least Nitpicker fandom, has accepted this (not me, sorry). So people shouldn't be outraged about the kiss or the half-human concept if they can accept that the Doctor was just a test-tube blooby at one time and not a sentient being that developed in a womb.
Can't figure out why people are so adverse to the thought of the Doctor as a baby, toddler, teen, young adult prior to aging to Hartnell's point. Don't be afraid of sex, people! It's pretty natural stuff, and the Loom business makes the Gallifreyans (in my opinion) look like freaks and not true lifeforms.

Chris - "En route, he was given blood in order to sustain him. Unless Gallifreyan blood is much like that of humans, we can assume that the Doctor was given human blood as on the view screen from the probe we see human red blood cells flowing through his veins."

Two problems; one, an ambulance driver wouldn't perform a transfusion, because there are several kind sof blood, Type O, Type B, Type A, positive and negative, and you shouldn't give the wrong type to a patient because it'll be rejected or harm the patient. Second, Grace looks at his blood under a micrscope at home, and clearly states, "It's not blood.", so it shouldn't look like ours, even though it would be considered Gallifreyan blood.

Chris - "I was just thinking... there was a lot of hype about the millennium bug leading up to 2000 yet no one in San Francisco seemed too concerned. OK, we know everything is all right now but isn't it a little surprising, not even in the hospital is it mentioned?"

Sorry, Chris, I'm not picking on you personally, but I've come up with answers to some of your comments...
My memories of 1996 are a little foggy (the year this movie was made), as far as Y2K are concerned, but I don't think it was quite a big issue until 1998 or early 1999. The producers couldn't possibly have predicted the angst people were feeling about it in 1996.
Also, it wasn't relevant to the story, either. People were concerned about computer files and bank balances, more than the world ending.

And speaking of which...

Comments have been made as to why Earth will be destroyed by 12 midnight, and how the Doctor could know that, and what significance 12 midnight have as far as Earth stellar position, etc, etc.
I'm proposing that the Doctor knew it would only take about 3 hours for the Eye of Harmony to destroy the Earth. If the events had taken place at 3pm, the Doctor would have said, "By 6 pm, this planet will be pulled inside out."

Eric - Would have been great to see this team in a story with an actual script."

My sentiments, exactly, when I see the Doctor, Grace, and Chang side by side as he activates the TARDIS console and gives it a little thump. My thoughts are always, "This would have been an interesting team to watch for several stories."

The Christmas Invasion - San Francisco? At the end, the Doctor tells Chang not to be here next Christmas, to take a vacation. Hmmm. What happened there at Christmas 2000???

So, come on. Sarcastic remarks like that shouldn't be taken seriously.

Sunshine, when you've got sixteen ******* years to fill, EVERY Who-related remark is taken DEADLY seriously...

Chris - "Doctor Who has never had perfect continuity, but neither has it had such claims (the half-human comment) shake it's foundations. A small variance in continuity is inevitable, but a deliberate misconstruance of what a series is based upon should not tolerated."

Oh, you mean an aspect such as, oh, I don't know, let's say...THE LOOMS???

Well, there was little on-screen to suggest that Time Lords reproduced the way humans do - set against a young woman calling Hartnell 'grandfather' was hundreds of years of Doctorish asexuality.

I won't get into an arguement about the Looms and a sterile Gallifrey here, because I won't change anyones opinions after all this time.

You won't have to - the new series has made ALL the novels not merely grossly inaccurate but utterly irrelevant, even for those of us who were so desperate for the Doctor not to have sex that we even embraced the utter tedium of Lungbarrow.

However, a novelist came up with such ideas, and basically re-wrote continuity by saying that Susan wasn't the Doctor's grandfather

I think it was pretty well established on-screen that Susan wasn't the Doctor's grandfather...;)

So people shouldn't be outraged about the kiss or the half-human concept if they can accept that the Doctor was just a test-tube blooby at one time and not a sentient being that developed in a womb.

We bloody well SHOULD be outraged! I for one have HARDLY ANY problems with the Doctor, er, genetic-transferring on a regular basis with his Companions, but this stupid American surgeon had just KILLED the Doctor, what's he suddenly doing sticking his tongue down her throat in the middle of the end of the world?

And the Doctor is an alien. This BLATANTLY OBVIOUS FACT permeates every moment of his on-screen (and in-book, and in-audio) existence, so what possible RIGHT (not to mention POINT) had the telemovie to blow that to smithereens?

Can't figure out why people are so adverse to the thought of the Doctor as a baby, toddler, teen, young adult prior to aging to Hartnell's point.

Because it's just so fundamentally...WRONG. (Though obviously I'm striving to believe it, post-Sound of Drums.) Even without dragging Divided Loyalties into the equation.

Don't be afraid of sex, people! It's pretty natural stuff

Not for the Doctor it isn't. Even in the new series, where he's falling for a new woman, man, or tree every couple of weeks...

People were concerned about computer files and bank balances, more than the world ending.

Yeah, like the world WOULDN'T have ended (or at least regressed to the Stone Age) if all the computers had crashed...

"I think it was pretty well established on-screen that Susan wasn't the Doctor's grandfather...;)"

HUHHHH??????? Are you serious? I see a smiley face, so I just think you're cranking me up, but...I dunno. If you are serious, I can't wait to hear your proof.

"Yeah, like the world WOULDN'T have ended (or at least regressed to the Stone Age) if all the computers had crashed..."

I think the world's computer geeks would have banded together like the Justice League and saved us. Or got us back on track.

I didn't mean to make it seem like I was being blaise about the kiss. I, too, disagree that it's out of character for the Doctor as a whole, but it's not like he's killing baby seals. And as far as I'm concerned it was an overtly-friendly 'thank you' kiss. There wasn't much to suggest that the Doctor had fallen for Grace-- he needed her to jog his memory and she helped him. She prompted him for a second kiss, and he did so, but it wasn't like they'd gone out to dinner and a movie and their first date ended with a smooch. That's why I don't know why people back then freaked out so much. I've thanked people for presents with a kiss before.
Just not long 5 or 6-seconds long...darnit.

"Well, there was little on-screen to suggest that Time Lords reproduced the way humans do - set against a young woman calling Hartnell 'grandfather' was hundreds of years of Doctorish asexuality."

I would suggest that since the show's creators intended Susan to actually be the Doctor's granddaughter, then that overrides whatever else was written in the novels. Nobody in 1963 could have conceived of the Looms and their method of reproduction, so I feel the use of the name 'grandfather' is meant to be just that. The father of Susan's mother or father.
Sorry, but I gotta throw your own arguement back at you, Emily. If there was little on-screen support for Time Lord reproduction, then there's even less regarding 'hundreds of years of Doctorish asexuality'. We never saw the Doctor prior to An Unearthly Child, and don't know if he was a Player in his younger days. The novels might contradict this, but I'm speaking strictly about the televised stories. Neither one of us can prove or dis-prove the other's arguement, so it remains a matter of opinion.

"I think it was pretty well established on-screen that Susan wasn't the Doctor's grandfather...;)"

HUHHHH??????? Are you serious? I see a smiley face, so I just think you're cranking me up, but...I dunno. If you are serious, I can't wait to hear your proof.

Reread the sentence ;)

it wasn't like they'd gone out to dinner and a movie and their first date ended with a smooch.

But getting killed, stalking the killer, then snogging her in the middle of the end of the world is no doubt the Doctor's equivalent of dinner and a movie.

I mean, just look at Eccy n'Rose's first date...

That's why I don't know why people back then freaked out so much. I've thanked people for presents with a kiss before.
Just not long 5 or 6-seconds long...darnit.

Quite.

I would suggest that since the show's creators intended Susan to actually be the Doctor's granddaughter, then that overrides whatever else was written in the novels.

I'd agree that on-screen always trumps the novels, but intentions don't count. I mean, Who was INTENDED to be an educational, strictly-no-monsters kids' programme. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

If there was little on-screen support for Time Lord reproduction, then there's even less regarding 'hundreds of years of Doctorish asexuality'. We never saw the Doctor prior to An Unearthly Child, and don't know if he was a Player in his younger days.

True, but I wasn't thinking of the unspeakable Young Hartnell Years, I was thinking that if Troughton was 450 and Tom was 750 and McCoy 950, then THAT'S hundreds of years when Doctors 2-7 never expressed the slightest interest in members of the opposite (or, indeed, the same) sex. (Sure, in theory he might have been shagging like mad every time the BBC switched off their cameras, but there would surely be various River Songs, Child Support Agency representatives, etc, popping up on-screen from time to time.)

What in God's name is this thing doing in with Classic Who!? It is not worthy to share the same page as the 1963-89 series. In fact, this movie should be erased from all creation.

Sigh, although RTD has made it canon, at least he had the sense to retcon that idiotic idea of the Doctor being half-human out of existence.

In what way did he retcon it? Something to do with Human Nature/Family of Blood?

I think he meant retcon as in "wipe completely from our memories" rather than actually negate it. I know I've managed to purge it (except for the occasional reminder).

It was a bit jarring to see it posted here, but I suppose it is the logical spot for it.

What happened to the other movies?

Disregard. Found them (exactly where they've always been).

What in God's name is this thing doing in with Classic Who!? It is not worthy to share the same page as the 1963-89 series.

Now, now. It's better than Timelash. Or Dominators. A LOT better.

In fact, this movie should be erased from all creation.

Have you thought this through? Like, what it would take for our brains to adjust to Eccy being the Eighth Doctor and Tennant the Ninth?

In what way did he retcon it?

I'm thinking that SPOILERS FOR JOURNEY'S END RTG made it pretty clear by exploding Donna's head (well...threatening to) that he'd have none of this 'half-human' nonsense around the place. (Albeit slightly contradicted by producing a half-human Doctor in a blue suit.)

I suppose it is the logical spot for it.

If anyone can think of a more logical spot they're welcome to point it out. Bearing in mind that this is ENTIRELY CANONICAL and was our ONE MOMENT OF HAPPINESS during the SIXTEEN LONG AND BARREN YEARS, though of course amongst its many other virtues the new series has obviated the need for us (or was it just me?) to pretend to ourselves that it was any bloody good.

Found them (exactly where they've always been).

Nonsense, 'Movies' used to have a main section all of its own. Now Cushing and his pathetic pretences at Whoness are stuck in Apocrypha where they belong. *Much evil bwa-ha-ha-ing*

While I admire people who have an even lower opinion of this show than I do, it has to go somewhere, and the only honest option is to give it its own dedicated section so that we'd have: Classic Series, Telemovie, New Series.

We really don't want to elevate it to that level now, do we?

Now Cushing and his pathetic pretences at Whoness are stuck in Apocrypha where they belong.
Boy, you really must hate the DVD threads to lump them in with Cushing.

While I admire people who have an even lower opinion of this show than I do

You shouldn't ADMIRE such people! If I could think positive about the telemovie for all those years, EVERYONE really ought to have managed this feat.

Boy, you really must hate the DVD threads to lump them in with Cushing.

Don't HATE 'em, just consider 'em fairly...irrelevant. I mean, I'm not gonna get excited that something I've ALREADY GOT A PERFECTLY GOOD COPY OF ON VIDEO will be coming out in a few months in an unnecessary new format that requires vast expenditure on my part and will doubtless be out of date in a year or two.

God this could have been really awful. All it would taken was a few improvements to the script...

For better or worse, it will be on DVD in the US Feburary 8, 2011.

You don't seriously mean it HASN'T BEEN RELEASED IN AMERICA YET?????????????????????

I know. I was surprised, too. Guess it's because none of us have gone looking for it.

Any word on bonus features?

Never mind. I found them:

http://dvd.ign.com/articles/113/1131091p1.html

Apprantly, it was delayed due to some copyright issue. (Similar to the Batman show from the 1960s.)

I just got the DVD of this one, and not having seen it in over a decade, it's.......much better than I remembered.

Oh, the "half-human" stuff (which I think was a holdover from the "reboot" they were thinking of doing) is still stupid, but other than that, I really enjoyed it.

The TARDIS interior I think is better than the Eccleston/Tennant one (although I do like the Smith one better than both.)

A lot of fans thought the motorcylce chase was an "American thing," but I thought it was reminiscent of episodes where McCoy rode one... the the scene with the fire hose and ax was very Tom Bakerish.

And a couple of things remined me of the new series...He talks to Grace though a mail slot, the same way the 9th Doctor talks to Rose through a cat flap.....He looks at the same type of digital clock on the wall of the hospital in San Francisco as in the hospital in the "Eleventh Hour."

As to things "seeming more American," he DID land in San Francisco. That's like complaining everything "seemed too Russian" if he landed in Moscow.


(And by the way, writers were British. The Fox Network simply contributed some funding.)

Well said, well said!

I'm determined to love the telemovie again. One day. The way I USED to before that new series deliberately and maliciously gave me seventy-four BETTER episodes (though come to think of it...I'd prefer the telemovie to Daleks in Manhattan any day).

I don't mind the telemovie- except for Eric Roberts....

The new dvd release of it is excellent.

Aw c'mon, you've got to love "I always drezze for the occassion" and "My name is not 'Honey'"!

(And by the way, writers were British. The Fox Network simply contributed some funding.)

Really? Had any of them even SEEN Doctor Who? They must have been in their early 20s or something.

Actually, Amanda, thanks to me checking out the new edition DVD of this movie, I can tell you that it had the BCC and British hands all over it.
Philip Seagal struggled for years to bring it about, and when he finally got the go ahead, the BBC assigned one of their executive producers, Jo Wright, to the show, and it was Wright, herself, who pushed for Paul McGann in the role.
As Seagal shopped around the concept of a Doctor Who TV series to the American networks without success, he was asked to meet with Fox executive Trevor Walton. Walton was a British-born executive in charge of the Fox Network TV Movie Division, and his meeting lasted all of 20 minutes as he and Seagal 'went down memory lane' about their Who memories, before he simply stated, 'Okay, let's get to work' making a movie.
And it was Walton who suggested British writer Matthew Jacobs for the script (to replace other scripts that weren't going to be used), and he'd worked on the BBC, as well.
And finally, British-born director Geoffrey Sax was brought in to direct.
So you see, there was a strong British/BBC element to the movie. The casting of American-born Eric Roberts as the Master was a necessity, as Seagal claims, so that he could get other concessions he wanted (ie. things like hiring Sylvester McCoy, having a British-born Eighth Doctor, etc.). And Seagal is fully aware that a Master with an American accent who acted the way he did didn't make sense from a storyline point of view, but from a movie business angle, it was necessary. If the Americans were going to put money into it, they wanted a recognizable American actor in the role.
Production began with Jacobs script, but the ending was still unfinished, because all of the players, BBC TV, BBC Worldwide, Amblin, Universal, and Fox were all making suggestions for how they wanted the movie to be made, and Seagal claims that 'not one idea from any of these five companies matched the other! Not one!'. So being a case of not being able to please everyone, Seagal did his best to satisfy the BBC and Universal and 'ignored the network', which I'm assuming would be Fox TV.

Literally hundreds of names were suggested for the role of the Doctor back in 1995, many of whom were contacted, so here's a partial list of the names mentioned on the DVD that you'll recognize and some you won't.
Tim Curry, Eric Idle, Jonathan Pryce, Michael Crawford, Michael Palin, Colin Firth, Jason Connery, Roger Rees, Clive Owen, Robert Lindsay, Billy Connelly,, Trevor Eve, Rob Heyland, Mark mcGann, Tony Slatttery, John Sessions, Liam Cunningham, Martin Kemp, Seabatian Roche, Bruce Payne, James Wilby, John Gordon Sinclair, Christopher Villiers, Harry Von Gorkum, Robert Reynolds, and Nigel Havers.

Wow, that's... hard to believe, actually. And here I thought it was us that screwed it up. RTD was more special than I realized.

I never had a problem with McGann; I thought he was a great Doctor, or would have been given time. My beef was that the whole thing had the wrong feel to it. Hard to put my finger on, but it was just the wrong style. After watching Rose, I thought, "Yes!" After watching the telemovie, I thought, "What the hell was that?" I did like their redition of the theme though.

My beef was that the whole thing had the wrong feel to it. Hard to put my finger on, but it was just the wrong style. After watching Rose, I thought, "Yes!" After watching the telemovie, I thought, "What the hell was that?"

My sentiments precisely. (Or at least, that was how I felt about the telemovie AFTER seeing Rose. Before then my critical faculties were on hold for a few years...)

Well, yes, hindsight being 20/20 and all. I may have been more forgiving of the movie at the time (as a starving man will eat road kill).

'My beef was that the whole thing had the wrong feel to it. Hard to put my finger on, but it was just the wrong style'

Was it because there wasn't the old-style rickety sets, the look of the production on videotape, the more elaborate special effects, the setting in San Francisco rather than, say, Brighton or London, or the obvious higher busget of the show compared to old episodes?
For me it's all of these things, just as it would 'feel' different if the show was set in Moscow or Tokyo.
But now that we've got 5 seasons of the new series behind us, isn't it easier to accept the look and feel of this production? After all, it's alot more like the present-day series than the original.

Almost forgot to mention the stuff I learned from the DVD commentary...

The scenes of the Doctor and Grace in her house (checking his heart, the Pucini comment) were the first filmed between McGann and Daphne Ashbrook.
McGann might look a little tired to you in them (and his wig seems a little off). This is because he'd just flown in from Britain and was jet-lagged. Perfect timing, if you ask me, since the Doctor is still on the road to recovery.

In that scene, the Doctor says "I have 13 lives", but if you watch his lips, McGann actually said '12', and later had to re-dub in '13'.

Two funny scenes that weren't used was when the amnesiac Doctor follows Grace into the elevator, and says to her "Pucini!", as he recalls the tape that was playing during surgery. However, the unused scene was him virtually screaming "PUCINI!!!" inches from her face that makes Ashbrook wince and nearly jump. The other is when the Doctor and Grace demand the cop on the highway hand over the keys to his motorcycle. He hesitates so long that the crowd of drivers involved in the traffic accident shout in unison, "GIVE HIM THE KEYS!!!"

That comment about being half-human was an unfortunate bit of a previous, unused script that somehow managed to be included here.

And that weird device that was holding the Doctor's eyes open? That was actually holding McGann's eyes open for real! Talk about the difficuluties of being an actor! No thanks!

I might have mentioned before that when watching Rose for the first time my Dad mentioned that it had got right some things the telemovie hadn't

Okay, sorry for hogging all the room here, but I wanted to check something and found this interesting real-life tid-bit from SFGate.com on December 31, 2000...
"By Rachel Gordon, Chronicle Staff Writer
(12-31) 04:00 PST San Francisco — 2000-12-31 04:00:00 PST San Francisco -- For celebrants who want to ring in the true new millennium with a bang, a giant fireworks show on the San Francisco waterfront will light up the sky New Year's Eve.

"We're not going to tolerate public drunkenness or disorderly conduct," San Francisco Police Chief Fred Lau said.

City officials are expecting 100,000 to 300,000 New Year's Eve revelers to attend the civic celebration, which will be centered on the Embarcadero at the Ferry Building near the foot of Market Street. The event is free and open to the public."

I think we found out why the Doctor warned Chang Lee not to be in San Francisco a year from that point! He prevented him from getting arrested for public drunkeness and disorderly conduct! Or maybe using the fireworks to burn down a rival gang's house!

Was it because there wasn't the old-style rickety sets, the look of the production on videotape, the more elaborate special effects, the setting in San Francisco rather than, say, Brighton or London, or the obvious higher busget of the show compared to old episodes?
...But now that we've got 5 seasons of the new series behind us, isn't it easier to accept the look and feel of this production?

NO!

After all, it's alot more like the present-day series than the original.

Only on the surface. All the money, special effects, snogging, obsession with modern-day Earth, etc are as nothing compared to the fact that Old and New Who are the same in spirit. And the telemovie...isn't.

That comment about being half-human was an unfortunate bit of a previous, unused script that somehow managed to be included here.

SOMEHOW MANAGED TO GET INCLUDED!

Who do they think they're kidding?!

It was mentioned a dozen times! The Doctor couldn't shut up about his mummy! Even the Eye of Harmony was in on the human-eyeball thing!

And are they seriously admitting to NOT BOTHERING TO REREAD THE SCRIPT, EVER????

when watching Rose for the first time my Dad mentioned that it had got right some things the telemovie hadn't

You can bloody say that again. Like not drowning in continuity references whilst spitting on continuity with that half-human rubbish...

I think we found out why the Doctor warned Chang Lee not to be in San Francisco a year from that point! He prevented him from getting arrested for public drunkeness and disorderly conduct!

Hopefully something a bit more exciting happened in the Whoniverse...

Was it because there wasn't the old-style rickety sets, the look of the production on videotape, the more elaborate special effects, the setting in San Francisco rather than, say, Brighton or London, or the obvious higher busget of the show compared to old episodes?

I don't know. I suppose it might be, but somehow I don't think so. Having it in SF was a bit jarring, but it was the telling of the story itself that got me. It was... too shallow? too glitzy? It's like I was watching a slight parody of a real Who episode. Like I said, I just can't put my finger on it, but Emily is right: it had the wrong spirit.

In that scene, the Doctor says "I have 13 lives", but if you watch his lips, McGann actually said '12', and later had to re-dub in '13'.

That's quite a recent reference to the regeneration limit then. They're going to have to address it properly, none of this 507 as a passing remark rubbish.

And that weird device that was holding the Doctor's eyes open? That was actually holding McGann's eyes open for real!

Really? And I remember thinking that was so fake!

I might have mentioned before that when watching Rose for the first time my Dad mentioned that it had got right some things the telemovie hadn't

Did he say what things?

Ah, so we're dicussing this thing again, are we. Well, rather than repeat my loathing of it, I give you the following.

I read an article about this movie once, and the author didn't check his sources. He says that it was "The first Doctor Who story filmed in the U.S."

Uh, while it was SET in the U.S., this was filmed in Vancouver, British Columbia, CANADA!

D'OH!
Bazinga!

Vancouver is part of the US. I didn't know that?

Excuse me, Charles-I think you misunderstood what's being said.

Vancouver is not part of the United States, It's part of Canada.

However due to lower costs-Vancouver has a thriving film industry-which often set their shows in the U.S.(another example is Sliders--which was made in Vancouver and set in Los Angeles).

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

A lot of shows are filmed in Vancouver. The Stargate shows, Supernatural, Smallville, the new Battlestar Galactica, and many others.

Richard Dean Anderson filmed two TV series in Vancouver, MacGyver and Stargate SG1. Before he became a big movie star, Johnny Depp starred on a show filmed in Vancouver, 21 Jump Street.

As Jep said, it's cheaper to film in Vancouver than L.A., which is why so many shows film there.

Don't forget The X-Files!

We should get back on topic...Emily will be wondering what all these strange titles are, having never watched any of them!

And just to get nit-picky, the shows were filmed in Vancouver, British Columbia, even though across the border there actually is a Vancouver, Washington, nearly 500 kilometers from the Canadian city.

John, I knew Vancouver, BC is in Canada. I was trying to be funny.

That comment about being half-human was an unfortunate bit of a previous, unused script that somehow managed to be included here.

If you watch Paul McGann's audition on the DVD he reads from that very script.
Sounds like it would be a very good story....FOR ANOTHER SHOW!

Charles:John, I knew Vancouver, BC is in Canada. I was trying to be funny.

One of the problems I have here is knowing when someone is joking or not(Emily confuses me badly).

Add to that-my sense of humor seems unique,no one even notices my attempts at jokes.

Not only that,I was thinking of you as being new here--right up until I found you had been posting on one of the very boards I mentioned almost 12 years ago.

Not my proudest moment--boy is my face red.

Sorry about that Chief.

Literally hundreds of names were suggested for the role of the Doctor back in 1995, many of whom were contacted, so here's a partial list of the names mentioned on the DVD that you'll recognize and some you won't.
Tim Curry, Eric Idle, Jonathan Pryce, Michael Crawford, Michael Palin, Colin Firth, Jason Connery, Roger Rees, Clive Owen, Robert Lindsay, Billy Connelly,, Trevor Eve, Rob Heyland, Mark mcGann, Tony Slatttery, John Sessions, Liam Cunningham, Martin Kemp, Seabatian Roche, Bruce Payne, James Wilby, John Gordon Sinclair, Christopher Villiers, Harry Von Gorkum, Robert Reynolds, and Nigel Havers


Eric Idle as the Doctor? Hmmmmm... Hey, this is my companion, know what I mean? Wink, wink. Grin, grin. Nudge, nudge

DWM 427: 'Had the US series taken off, the plan was for former Doctors to return with some regularity' - I actually had a moment of intense yearning for the US series to have taken off before regaining my sanity.

Oh, and: 'Roberts' first business on set was to have the colour of the carpet changed in his trailer' - well, that isn't altogether unMasterish. Bet SimmMaster cared about that sort of thing.

'The TVM, pitched at female viewers as well as male ("From the moment she saw him, she knew he was her destiny!" boomed one ad)' - Orman in Chicks Dig Time Lords. You have GOT to be kidding me.

'I thought the Americans did not understand Doctor Who. The one thing I instantly realised it lacked, rather like the two Peter Cushing Dalek movies, was that incredible sense of humour that underscored the whole BBC series. The Americans included bits of everything derived from The X Files to Star Trek, made the Doctor into a sort of Christ figure and had it all bizarrely realistic in a sort-of Robocop mould.' - Warris Hussein, Who's first director. Spot-on, though to be fair to the telemovie, An Unearthly Child wasn't exactly a barrel of laughs either.

The director of the Fox movie on the DVD commentary track said that he never intended the Christ imagery, which I found a bit hard to swallow as it was so blatant.

I only saw the BBCA special on the 8th Doc, but darn... Grace sure looked a lot like Scully, didn't she?

(Emily, Scully was the female lead on the X-Files).

DWM's Fact of Fiction reaches the telemovie:

'In just 85 minutes, it paraded a vision of our beloved series as in a funhouse mirror: misshapen, distorted, but still just about recognisable...It changed the series' spin-off fiction irreversibly...a bombshell whose shockwaves are still being felt' - yup, fair enough.

'While at the time it may have seemed that Grace and Lee were saved by the TARDIS travelling back in time, to a point prior to their deaths, we now know that they were effectively "regenerated" by the golden energy' - OK, if you say so. It's minimally less BLOODY STUPID.

'The Doctor congratulates Lee and Grace on having been "somewhere I've never been" - ie the afterlife. Grace tells him "it's nothing to be scared of", which suggests it's not the same afterlife glimpsed in Torchwood' - VERY GOOD POINT.

LIKE its explanation for the 'half-human' nonsense:

Doctor tells Grace he can change species 'but only when I die'. THIS regeneration is referred to as being 'dead too long'. 'Is it possible that, before his regeneration, the Doctor was all-Time Lord and now he's only half-Time Lord'. 'The TARDIS toolkit contains a couple of fob watches'. 'Consider also the Seventh Doctor's fondness for a manipulative long game.' 'Once he realised the Master was still alive, the Doctor knew how this story would unfold...Is it possible the Doctor set his plan in motion before his "death"? He could have primed the Chameleon Arch, setting his transformation into a half-human to trigger with his regeneration...He could also have set the TARDIS' isomorphic controls...to respond only to people with human, or half-human, DNA'...

Of course, it still doesn't explain where his bloody mother comes into it. Or why the all-foreseeing Seventh Doctor failed to predict the Master picking up a few human sidekicks. And the claim that there's NOTHING in the history of Who to contradict the idea of a half-human Doctor is simply NOT TRUE. ALL of it contradicts this bloody stupid American idea.

The New Series did it right, the kept the McGann Doctor, but retconned out that half human nonsense.

What happened to Sylvester McCoy's hair? YUCK!

There is NO explanation as to how the Master died. He seemed to be in fine shape in "Survival"

There's that *shudders* narration at the beginning. The squeaky-voiced Daleks put the Master on trial (!) and exterminated him...

What the hell have you got against McCoy's hair?

He's lost most of his hair...and it's curly now.

He's lost most of his hair...

Has NOT!

and it's curly now.

What's wrong with curly hair? Some of the best Doctors...OK, ONE of the best Doctors...has hair that curls like the ram...

I have one puzzling question about Eric Roberts:

Is he as obnoxious in his other works as he appears to be in this?

I notice that he has appeared in over 300 other roles - none of which I have yet seen. If this one is anything to go by, I will be avoiding them like the plague.

OK, ONE of the best Doctors...has hair that curls like the ram...
Colin Baker's curls are like the ram?

Colin permed his hair. Tom's are real (outside Season 18 when he got sick, his hair de-curled and they had to perm it.)

I have one puzzling question about Eric Roberts:

Is he as obnoxious in his other works as he appears to be in this?

I wouldn't say he is always that abnoxious, but he does often play villains. However his depiction of the Master is somewhat over the top, even for him. If you want to see him in another kind of role, I recommend The Coca Cola Kid. He's the good guy in that one.

The Novel of the Film:

'For the sixth time in a month...he had reconfigured the interior of the console room' - hmm. HOW many console rooms did Idris say she'd stored? I'm sure it would be a lot more if McGann did THIS much messing around.

If you're gonna contradict Lungbarrow about how the Doctor gets the Master's dying message, DON'T go all NA on us and start blathering on about Chelton Boniface.

Though I have to say, a telepathic message straight into the Doctor's mind is a bit more plausible than Lungbarrow's claim that President Romana sent the Doctor off on this mission with the generous advice that he had a 4% chance of not dying on it.

Though it's a bit stupid for a telepathic message direct to the Doctor's head to refer to him as 'my rival Time Lord and nemesis'. And come to think of it, in the circumstances the DALEKS would be the Master's nemesis, surely?

'Whereas the Doctor was honest and good, compassionate and caring, the Master was the personification of total evil, malevolent and immoral' - do you have to be so SIMPLISTIC? If you're writing for five-year-olds, why all the graphic depictions of violence?

'The Emperor began listing the Master's crimes against the Daleks, citing various times they ha joined forces, only for the Master to betray them at the last moment' - frankly I can't imagine they had TOO many alliances, post-Frontier...

'Many times before, the Doctor had thought the Master deserved all he got' - really? When? Planet of Fire, and...?

The Doc's not at all suspicious when the Master's 'ashes' turn out to be crystalline chunks and dark crystalline hypnotic eyes...?

When going to Gallifrey 'Sometimes he was welcomed back with open arms, other times they tried to kill him. Still, it was these unpredictable moments that made life bearable, he supposed' - blimey. IS the Doctor's life so barely-tolerable? (Even though this IS McCoy - a fact I keep forgetting and seeing him as McGann - and he WAS portrayed as seriously depressed in his last few NAs.) And since when have the Time Lords ever welcomed him with open arms?

'By default, Chang Lee became part of the gang Chang Ho ran with.' - Of course. Chinese triad gangs murder both your parents so what's more natural than to...join a Chinese triad gang?

'The ever-vigilant Eighth Precinct' - they can't be THAT vigilant if they let triads take over the neighbourhood.

The police just let extremely suspicious character Chang Lee GO? They don't even seem to take a statement about the ATTEMPTED MURDER he's just witnessed...?

'Well, he'd better be rich' - the paramedic assumes that the Doctor doesn't have health insurance WHY, exactly?

'What's the date, Bruce?' 'December 30th...' '1999' - blimey. It's the day before New Millennium Eve and Chang Lee doesn't even REALISE it?

Also, this book has just told us that it's 'three days off the Millennium celebrations'! And, a few pages later, that, on the early evening of 30th, it's 'less than forty-eight hours' till the celebrations.

'A mouth through which it could take in oxygen and other chemicals' - oxygen is a chemical?

'Probably a tourist. He might not be covered by insurance' - nor might an American! And since you're all so concerned about such things, why not ask Chang Lee when you were getting him to fill in all those forms?

'A strange glow lit up the shroud and for a moment it seemed to melt away, revealing a starscape; suns, moon and planets, swirling gas giants and flaming comets. As if the whole universe was encased within the outline of one man's body' - er...yeah...whatever.

If the Doctor's lying on the gurney, how exactly is he propelling it quite so violently?

So it's 6.30am when Grace is woken by a call from the morgue. Which she goes down to as soon as she's had breakfast. And as soon as she returns to her office from the morgue it's...10.22am. It take Grace FOUR HOURS to eat a large bowl of muesli and drink three cups of decaf?

'By now, without a body, and without any records, no one need ever know he was here. I've already spoken to Salinger and Wheeler. I'll talk to Curtis.' 'And Pete and Ted? And Bruce and Joey in the ambulance? And Lana on reception last night? And the police officers and everyone else who knew that he was here?' - er...QUITE.

'If you do this, I'll quit' - why only quit? Once you no longer have a job to lose, why not go public?

'She dumped the boxes on the hood of her car, but remembering her self-defence classes, did not get the key from her bag. Don't turn your back on him, Grace, she remembered' - why would she need a self-defence class to tell her not to turn her back on a potentially dangerous lunatic? Why would getting out her keys involve turning her back? Why doesn't she think of the keys as a useful weapon...oh, wait, by the following page it's suddenly 'She felt the alarm. Next to it, her keys. They were the better option. She felt them in her clenched fist, and began to feel calmer.'

'Curtis was perturbed by Bruce's unusual tone. "Yeah, the 'Asian' child." She stared harder at him. "Bruce, I think you must be really sick."' - this scene actually makes sense in the book. The receptionist-actress totally screwed it up on-screen.

Grace has five locks on her front door?!

'So, you're trying to tell me that you came back from the dead?' 'Of course not. The dead stay dead. I regenerated, eventually' - glad we got THAT cleared up.

'This time, the key was read, and he was going to use it' - uh?

'He wore a black tunic with a Nehru collar, and black trousers and boots. All three items of clothing seemed to be made out of the same material, which looked a bit like snake-skin' - he found THOSE in BRUCE'S WARDROBE??

'They fit' - but the whole POINT of the telemovie is that Brian's shoes DON'T fit the Doctor...at first! 'Maybe if I walk about in them for a while, they'll stretch' - why would you need to, IF THEY FIT?

It takes Grace a WHOLE DAY to examine the Doctor's blood?!

'He seemed a bit weird, but okay enough' - Chang Lee on the Master. Which bit of 'you get to live [if you help me]' was a bit to SUBTLE a threat for him?

'It is known as the Eye of Harmony, named after a massive power source back at my home' - glad we got THAT cleared up too.

'You are a very pleasant young man. Very trustworthy. Decent. Therefore [the TARDIS] senses it and responds to it' - given that Chang Lee is actually a violent criminal, I'm wondering exactly WHY Sexy is so •••• fond of him.

'If I look into the Eye of Harmony, my soul will be destroyed' - er...WHY?

'Can you believe this rubbish?' the Master asks Chang Lee. Message From Fred or WHAT!

Look, if the Doc KNOWS the Master is seeing through his eyes, why doesn't it occur to him that the Master is also hearing through his ears? Why does he continue to tell Grace all his plans...

'Mrs Trattorio would claim her cat was being unfairly disturbed, or some kind of rubbish like that' - hey! The cat IS being unfairly disturbed by the lunatic hammering on her door!

'The elderly lady gave [the Doctor] a last malicious look and followed her pet' - cos all women with cats are bitter old biddies, of course.

Surely if the planet's molecular structure is being affected to walking-through-glass extent, there ought to be more than the odd high tide and snow?

Why did Grace ask for two beds in the psych ward if she still doesn't believe the Doctor and is just humouring him on the ambulance journey?

'She ought to have been at a party, dancing around someone's house' 'She could head off to whatever party she could track down' - has Grace made no definite plans with actual FRIENDS on how to spend New Millennium Eve?

'Sigmund and I got on very well. I gave him lots of pointers about psychoanalysis' - Christ. Not the more...Freudian...bits, I hope.

'This is nowhere near Walker General!' 'No. But I bet it's the right direction for the Institute...the Master needs to get there to stop me getting that atomic clock' - wouldn't a more SENSIBLE way of the Master stopping the Doctor getting that atomic clock be for the Master to drive him to a mental hospital, sedate him, and tie him down, AS GRACE WAS INTENDING? Why DRIVE the Doctor to the clock in order to, um, stop him getting it?

'To Grace's astonishment, there was an [sic] yell from the various drivers surrounding them. "Give them the damned keys!" they chorused' - enjoy seeing policemen held at gunpoint, do they?

Grace has quite a distinctive face. (If not quite as distinctive as this book makes out - 'might well have been carved from a marble statue of a Greek goddess' my ****.) How likely is it that she'll be arrested and imprisoned for a VERY LONG TIME for this? Can THIS be the reason she's about the only Companion ever whose post-Doctor life is a complete blank?

Why does the Doctor assume Grace doesn't know how to fire a gun? She's AMERICAN, isn't she?

'The Master sounded more menacing than ever before and, for the first time, Chang Lee wondered if he was doing the right thing' - yeah, that DEATH THREAT really went whoosh over his head, didn't it.

'More sentimental attachment rather than practical use' says the Doc of the bag of his stuff Chang Lee stole. Er...which part of IT INCLUDES THE SONIC SCREWDRIVER has he somehow managed to forget?

'The real Eye of Harmony near Gallifrey' - NEAR? It's right under the floorboards!

'What about all your glorious predictions? All your knowledge of what is going to happen to that Gareth person? To me?' - he refused to make any glorious predictions about YOU, Sunshine.

Eighth's 'mouth was the same' as Seven's? And in previous bodies 'There had often been the same nose or eyes, that had transferred from one face to another'??

'He felt as though something, some great weight, was lifting from his mind' 'The green eyes in his head were gone, and he suddenly realised everything. He had been used. Twisted, bribed and mesmerised into doing what the Master wanted' - haaang on, Chang Lee was hypnotised all along? That's not the impression the REST of the book gave me!

'In seven hundred years no one has ever opened the Eye of my TARDIS' - interesting that this picked the same amount of time as The Doctor's Wife.

Thank the gods! Grace and Chang Lee get injured by the Master but they DON'T DIE! That particular abomination has been purged from this version!

Of course, the dialogue now makes no sense whatsoever ('You two did something I've never done...You cheated death. How does that feel?' 'It's nothing to be afraid of' - I'm sorry, THE DOCTOR has NEVER CHEATED DEATH?!) but that's a small price to pay.

Credit where it's due: Gary Russell does make repeated attempts to smooth over the most egregious blasphemies of the telemovie. But he never really stood a chance. And even the guy who's spent his LIFE exploring continuity issues just mentioned the half-human thing and then quite sensibly refused to touch it with a barge-pole.

'A mouth through which it could take in oxygen and other chemicals' - oxygen is a chemical?

Well, yes. It's made of atoms, it's a chemical. It's made of only one kid of atom, which makes it a chemical element, cut still a chemical.

Grace has five locks on her front door?!

Actually a fairly common thing in America's big cities.

'If I look into the Eye of Harmony, my soul will be destroyed' - er...WHY?

Maybe it would have a similar effect to looking into the untempered schism, only worse. Personnally, I would be more concerned with being bodily pulled into it than by it harming my soul.

'She ought to have been at a party, dancing around someone's house' 'She could head off to whatever party she could track down' - has Grace made no definite plans with actual FRIENDS on how to spend New Millennium Eve?

Maybe she was to be on call on that evening and had made no plans for a party. Her sudden resignation left her not time to change that.

Why does the Doctor assume Grace doesn't know how to fire a gun? She's AMERICAN, isn't she?

She's also a woman. Nuff said.

It's made of atoms, it's a chemical.

I didn't even know THAT.

Three years of doing Chemistry and I get more information from a novelisation of the TELEMOVIE for heaven's sake.

Actually a fairly common thing in America's big cities.

Blimey.

In that case, shouldn't Grace be rather more worried about being in deserted car-lots, and having a long walk from her car-parking space to her home (often late at night, presumably, what with her on call for emergency surgeries)?

Plus, isn't someone more likely to mug her whilst she's fiddling around finding five different keys than if she was safely indoors behind a mere one or two locks?

Personnally, I would be more concerned with being bodily pulled into it than by it harming my soul.

Hear, hear.

Especially as I don't even HAVE a soul.

Maybe she was to be on call on that evening and had made no plans for a party.

Nah, I got the distinct impression that she was thinking along the lines of 'If I hadn't met this Doctor weirdo I'd be partying...'

She's also a woman. Nuff said.

Hey! Don't accuse the Eighth Doctor of being sexist! There's no evidence for it!

Alright, there's not a lot of evidence for ANY character trait on the basis of Eight's hour-ish of televisual glory, but still...

In that case, shouldn't Grace be rather more worried about being in deserted car-lots, and having a long walk from her car-parking space to her home (often late at night, presumably, what with her on call for emergency surgeries)?

I believe she was rather worried about those things, which would be the reason she took self defense classes. Which would also tie in neatly with her not knowing how to use a gun. She is a doctor, she would probably be reluctant to use lethal force. Not that the Doctor would know any of that at this point of course.

Plus, isn't someone more likely to mug her whilst she's fiddling around finding five different keys than if she was safely indoors behind a mere one or two locks?

The many locks are more to keep people out while she is in the house, something that occupies more time than the minute or two it takes to unlock the door. It's trading increased security inside the house against a slightly greater risk when outside. She could of course use a solid deadbolt lock in a reinforced doorframe instead. It would allow her to get in quickly while offering more protection than five ordinary locks.

Surely if the planet's molecular structure is being affected to walking-through-glass extent, there ought to be more than the odd high tide and snow?

At this point, I would in fact expect to see a lot of planes falling from the sky, trains derailling, bridges and buildings collapsing, landslides, major earthquakes, any sort of event that a weakening of structural strength could trigger.

'The real Eye of Harmony near Gallifrey' - NEAR? It's right under the floorboards!

They may have moved it off the planet after the Deadly Assassin near disaster.

Being from Chicago, I'd call five locks a tad excessive, but San Francisco is different with more houses as opposed to highrises. Not sure I can call a medical doctor a bourgie, but she was upper class and had a lot to protect and worry about, material-wise.

I believe she was rather worried about those things, which would be the reason she took self defense classes.

But surely there are more effective ways of minimising the risk, like buying a house in a safe area with a car-parking space in front of it? (And come to think of it, surely ALL American homes have car-parking spaces in front of 'em? It's PAVEMENTS and things for PEDESTRIANS that they're sorely lacking in, last I heard.)

She is a doctor, she would probably be reluctant to use lethal force. Not that the Doctor would know any of that at this point of course.

Well, he does at least know that she's a doctor.

A grossly incompetent one who doesn't mind accidentally using lethal force AGAINST HER OWN PATIENTS, but nonetheless a doctor.

It's trading increased security inside the house against a slightly greater risk when outside. She could of course use a solid deadbolt lock in a reinforced doorframe instead. It would allow her to get in quickly while offering more protection than five ordinary locks.

THAT sounds like a REALLY GOOD IDEA.

At this point, I would in fact expect to see a lot of planes falling from the sky, trains derailling, bridges and buildings collapsing, landslides, major earthquakes, any sort of event that a weakening of structural strength could trigger.

Ha! Thought so.

They may have moved it off the planet after the Deadly Assassin near disaster.

That would involve admitting what had CAUSED the Deady Assassin near disaster, something Borusa didn't look particularly willing to do...

she was upper class and had a lot to protect and worry about, material-wise.

If she was THAT worried about it she should have been more careful of The Enemy Within...Brian!

surely ALL American homes have car-parking spaces in front of 'em?

We wish.

It's PAVEMENTS and things for PEDESTRIANS that they're sorely lacking

That too--though it depends.

Congratulations on making it through the book. The movie was so deadly dull I wouldn't even dream of picking up a printed version.

Congratulations on making it through the book. The movie was so deadly dull I wouldn't even dream of picking up a printed version

Actually it was only AFTER I stopped loving the telemovie that I could face the book. Before then, of course, it would have hindered my life's ambition of forgetting enough of the telemovie to be ready for a rewatch.

Daniel O'Mahony (in Licence Denied): 'An unpleasant homophobic subtext (the Master orally rapes a man, has designs on Chang Lee and acts like a camp stereotype once inside the TARDIS - a theme made even more disturbing by the Doctor's newly acquired virile interest in girls).' - blimey. I honestly didn't notice that. I was just grateful the Master was being so, well, enthusiastic in the telemovie.

Liz Barr/lizbee has argued that Chang Lee is not considered a companion because of racism.

Of course! We're all racist scum! THAT'S why Chang Lee doesn't make the Nitcentral Official Companion List alongside lily-white people like Mickey, Martha, Danny and K9! Why didn't I think of that BEFORE! OF COURSE it has nothing to do with the fact that Chang Lee was on the Doctor's side for all of five minutes in ONE STORY...

(Tim McCree)"Tin dog" isn't a human ethnicity, Emily!(/Tim McCree)

But he's still a PERSON, right? A non-white, male(ish), fussy, much-loved, pretty-useless, non-human Companion...

Does anyone know why they settled for Eric Roberts? Surely someone who was more easily well-known would have been better?

I vaguely seem to remember the Americans demanding a big-name American Master to make up for having to put up with little-known Brit McGann. I suppose they weren't that fussed about the famous name actually belonging to his sister...

But my memory is notoriously unreliable these days, I'll keep my eyes open as I plough through fifty million back-issues of DWM. Not to mention I really ought to READ my copy of Regeneration one of these days...

While overshadowed by little sister Julia, Eric Roberts did managed to get an Oscar nomination at one time.

For WHAT, for heaven's sake? Overacting?

There is only ONE Oscar winner in Who and that's our Capaldi!

(Alright, not for his acting skills, which is...quite annoying.)

Yeah, It's a shame Capaldi can't actually say "Do you want to tell that to my Oscar?" when people criticise him for bad performances...

But who could POSSIBLY criticise him for bad performances?

According to Who's 50, this movie's script was the latest in many such script, through a LONG period of Development Hell and rewrites. That "half human" rubbish was apparently a left over from a previous draft that no one bothered to fix.

This movie is a perfect example of too many writers getting involved.

Tim Curry (Pennywise the Clown, Frank N Furter) was going to be the eighth Doctor but a scheduling conflict meant that we got McGann.

another person who was asked to be the Master in the 1996 TV movie was Christopher Lloyd... I hope we would have got a more subtle villain than his "Judge Doom" in Who Framed Roger Rabbit or his Klingon antagonist in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock.

Subtle? The Master doesn't DO 'subtle'.

I've seen many lists of potential actors suggested for The Doctor between 1989 & 2005.

It might actually be quicker to list the potential actors who WEREN'T suggested for the Doctor between 1989 & 2005...

Unless Nitcentrallers maliciously start talking about the telemovie, of course...

Well now the gauntlet has been thrown down.....

So....um....how about that telemovie eh?

Gosh that Eighth Doctor seems more respectful than buffoonish, pratfalling, callous Fourth Doctor.

He's almost as entertaining as that lovable rascal Sixth Doctor....

Ha! Like insulting Tom is gonna provoke me into supporting your EVIL plan to ruin Tim's Life's Ambition and bolster the telemovie's posts at Fang Rock's expense...

...Oh.

Well, I tried to find a copy online. You'd think Hulu would legally be able to show this since it does have the rights to show the classic series & the new series (albeit on their pay service) and Fox has shows on Hulu as well, but no.

Tried watching the pieces on YouTube, then hit a hole, so I only saw part of the beginning. (it was actually missing the Dalek stuff at the beginning.)

Man some set designer was clock happy.

Okayyyyy... why would a doctor who is on call go to the opera knowing she could get a call any minute? Couldn't she schedule her opera nights for when she's not on call?

Okay, so PROFESSIONAL medical people write off the x-rays of two hearts as a double exposure.
This should pretty much erase most of the complaining people do when unprofessionals in classic episodes refer to the Doctor as only having one heart. Stop giving Ian & any other so much grief for assuming the man only had one heart!

Man that was a spacious freezer they wheeled the 'dead' Doctor into.
Aren't those things usually just a small space about the same size as a coffin?

What was the deal with the lightning bolts and his regeneration?
I don't ever remember seeing electricity in previous regenerations.

We see dents forming in the freezer door, but when the door falls McGann is holding the sheet to him.
Not the position I'd expect someone to be in when they just bashed out a metal door. At least one hand should have been free.

Frankly I wondered why they were wasting so much time in the hospital.
Yes, you want to establish he has two hearts and lead into his regeneration, but come on the classic series could do that in much less time.

More if I happen to actually see any more.

You'd think Hulu would legally be able to show this since it does have the rights to show the classic series & the new series

So EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE TELEMOVIE, then...? My completest soul is outraged. And sneakily admiring.

(it was actually missing the Dalek stuff at the beginning.)

That's probably a blessing.

Okay, so PROFESSIONAL medical people write off the x-rays of two hearts as a double exposure.
This should pretty much erase most of the complaining people do when unprofessionals in classic episodes refer to the Doctor as only having one heart. Stop giving Ian & any other so much grief for assuming the man only had one heart!

Look, HARRY SULLIVAN realised there was something wrong when HE waved a stethoscope at Our Hero. (Admittedly he didn't think to try this for several weeks.) Grace really SHOULD have noticed.

Man that was a spacious freezer they wheeled the 'dead' Doctor into.
Aren't those things usually just a small space about the same size as a coffin?

You haven't noticed the American obesity crisis? ;)

What was the deal with the lightning bolts and his regeneration?
I don't ever remember seeing electricity in previous regenerations.

Yeah, I also don't remember him being DEAD FOR SEVERAL HOURS during previous regenerations.

Still, let's just try to appreciate our LAST EVER sensibly-lying-down regeneration.

Frankly I wondered why they were wasting so much time in the hospital.

Yeah, 50% of 1990-2004 televisual Who consisted of...a hospital drama.

It could have been worse. It could have been set in Albert Square.

Emily - That's probably a blessing.

For viewing pleasure, sure, but I was watching to nitpick.

Grace really SHOULD have noticed.

Grace never saw the x-rays, until after the surgery. She asked for them and was told they all were double-exposed. Whether she would have realized that they weren't double-exposed given the way everyone was in a rush is unknown.

You haven't noticed the American obesity crisis?

I'm sorry, I didn't hear that over my eating a complete cow for a snack.

I also don't remember him being DEAD FOR SEVERAL HOURS during previous regenerations.

Perhaps it was a form of narcolepsy? His body going into a coma trying to repair the damage done to it and then finally giving up & regenerating???

Yeah, 50% of 1990-2004 televisual Who consisted of...a hospital drama.

And thinking about Luinier's complaints up above about what they got wrong about the hospital scenes it dawned on me after I had logged off. "D'oh! British writers! Probably more familiar with the English medical system than the American system!"

Kate - It could have been worse. It could have been set in Albert Square.

Now having a mental image of the hospital scenes being set outdoors on a street. ;-)

Oh wow- I had forgotten that this was the one Who board that Phil Farrand HIMSELF commented on!

Yeah, funny it didn't inspire him to watch the other thirty-four years of Who, isn't it...

Well, I believe at the time Doctor Who was only being aired in the US on PBS stations, so if his local PBS station wasn't airing Doctor Who he might not have had a chance to catch any more.

Then again, maybe he did watch more, but decided against posting comments?

Not sure how firm a generalization this is, but many of those PBS stations showed it at odd times. Our local station showed it for years on Sunday at 11pm, edited into movie format, so it'd end around 12:30am. Just saying: even if aired locally, it wasn't necessarily on at a convenient time. Sure you could record it, but if the Telemovie was the only thing you had seen, you wouldn't have much motivation.

IIRC by the time that the movie aired, the Sci-Fi network had bought exclusive rights to show Doctor Who in the U.S..

This meant that P.B.S. no longer had the right to show an Who.(Even though--as far as I know-- Sci-Fi never aired anything other than Tom Baker reruns.).

In fact--that's why I didn't know that Who had been cancelled until years after it happened (the truth is that I thought that there were new stories coming out--but we weren't seeing them here( I've not had cable since before the Sci-Fi network was created)).

Another fact--I disliked this movie so much--if it had been my first exposure to Who it would also have been my last( it just missed on too many points).

This might also be why Phil never watched more Who--this movie was really smegged up badly.

Well, my local PBS station has been running Who since, I think 1986, with no break (pledge drives every 6 months or so), so apparently it wasn't exclusive.

Rik Mayall - was a possible Eight - one of those considered by the suits in America as being a bankable name and was agreeable to signing a long-term contract, if offered.

Well, that would have been different!

Matt Jones in DWM: 'The Doctor I know and love is an alien, asexual and travels through time and space in a strange and mysterious craft; quite unlike anything I've ever seen before or since. By contrast, the Eighth Doctor is half-human, heterosexual and lives in the Batcave. Believe me, they're just not the same person at all' - look, TARDIS interiors can alter quite drastically, no biggie (haven't you SEEN Masque of Mandraoga?). And YOU can hardly complain about a non-asexual Doctor when YOUR 'Tell Rose...oh she knows' is the Doctor at his most heterosexual.

'To learn that, presumably, his mum came from Earth (and where did she come from? South Croydon? Bognor?)' - never thought of that...where the hell DID she come from? England, OBVIOUSLY...

'To make him a half-human heterosexual, turns him into just another "guy with two hearts."' - what, there are LOADS of guys with two hearts about the place? WHERE?

'To learn that, presumably, his mum came from Earth (and where did she come from? South Croydon? Bognor?)' - never thought of that...where the hell DID she come from? England, OBVIOUSLY...

According to John Leekley, who came up with all this rubbish in the first place, the Doctor's mum was an ancient Egyptian princess with the very Egyptian-sounding name of "Annalise".

You know, if WE were deliberately compiling a 'Top Ten Stupidest Invented "Facts" About Doctor Who Ever' we wouldn't have thought up anything THAT stupid...

...Surely the ENTIRE POINT of claiming the Doc is half-human is to excuse the fact he spends all his time hanging round modern-day ENGLAND!

And I certainly don't remember him looking nostaglic when he popped up in Egypt in Masterplan, Pyramids, Eye of the Scorpion...

What? You don't think Peter Davison looks Egyptian? On his Mother's side?
I suppose John Leekley watched a lot of movies about Egypt starring white actors, and thought Egyptians look like all us North American Honkies.

From DWM's endless twentieth (!) anniversary articles:

'If there wasn't a regeneration sequence, how would we be sure that this new version of Doctor Who wasn't a dreaded "reboot"?' - er, the way Russell T God made it crystal clear Rose wasn't a bloody reboot?

'Co-producers Fox stipulated the story couldn't feature "strange alien creatures"' - *shakes head very, very sadly*

'It's significant that it took the Americans to give Doctor Who its first ethnic-minority companion, a prototype for Mickey Smith' - what the hell has darling Mickey got to do with that Master-loving thieving gang-member!

'And you can see a lot of Martha Jones and Donna Noble in Grace, a female companion who is a grown woman' - what, as opposed to a male companion who is a grown woman? - 'who has an unrequited crush on the Doctor' - look, I spent most of Season 4/30's first viewing hoping that she was protesting too much but we've gotta face the inexplicable fact that Donna just doesn't fancy the Doctor.

'The Eric Roberts Master is a thought-through, clearly motivated character' - to be honest, I'm not sure how well the turning-into-a-snake thing was thought through.

'Having previously been established as a black hole located beneath the Panopticon on Gallifrey, the TV Movie established that there is also an Eye of Harmony inside the TARDIS' - yeah, but HOW for heaven's sake! And WHY! And SINCE WHEN! ' - providing a useful explanation for how it could keep going if Gallifrey was destroyed in, say, an intergalactic Time War' - except that the TARDIS was kept going by Rift Fuel in New Who and the DESTROYED Eye FROM GALLIFREY was poisoning the Doctor's second heart in the EDAs...

'The Doctor's assertion that he is half-human (on his mother's side) has never been contradicted in the modern series - or indeed in the twentieth-century episodes' - the HELL it hasn't!

Let's Kill Hitler and Witch's Familiar 'have established that regeneration energy manifests itself as a gold "pixie dust" which can be used to restore somebody to life, thus neatly explaining how the TARDIS saves Grace and Chang - by using the regeneration energy the Master had absorbed from the Doctor' - hmm. Hadn't thought of it quite like that. Isn't such expenditure supposed to be quite expensive, in terms of what it'll do to future regenerations? (I.e. River sacrificed all hers and Capaldi was worried that it'll 'probably cost me an arm or a leg somewhere down the line. Or I'll just be really little.')

'Reinventing the Doctor and the Master as much more nuanced and rounded characters' - ooh, where!

'Doctor Who is no longer set in a stagey TV studio universe where...nobody has sex' - hate to break the news, Sunshine, but Kate and Holliday and Tanya and, um, whathisface were TOTALLY having sex.

'It played its part in restoring the momentum enough. It kept Doctor Who going. Ten years later, it came back. And Russell T...admitted that it had played its part' - didn't he say that the telemovie taught him how NOT to do it?

Executive Producer Jo Wright: 'Anyway, [the script] still wasn't right by the time I arrived in Vancouver. We hadn't even got an ending. Then Phil decided to go ahead and build a massive set without the final part, so we ended up having to write around that instead...he just had to have that [Cloister Room] set' - oh. Dear.

(Though that WAS a rather cool set. And let's face it, the script is unlikely to have been any better if given a free rein for its location.)

Love Eric Roberts' conviction that he absolutely didn't play the role campy...

'If there wasn't a regeneration sequence, how would we be sure that this new version of Doctor Who wasn't a dreaded "reboot"?' - er, the way Russell T God made it crystal clear Rose wasn't a bloody reboot?

And the fact that the series didn't get produced. Many of the proposed stories were remakes of classic series stories, and there's no way it could have fit in established continuity.

Many of the proposed stories were remakes of classic series stories, and there's no way it could have fit in established continuity.

Was that the notorious Leakey Bible thing? Were they really going to go with that, if there HAD been a series?

Yes. I'm going off the Wikipedia entry for unmade Who stories. Talons of Weng-Chiang set in New York, Sea Devils of the coast of Louisiana, etc.

One does catch my attention, if only for its bizarreness: a combined remake of Reign of Terror and Claws of Axos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unmade_Doctor_Who_serials_and_films#Eighth_Doctor

a "gumbo Sea Devils"?

Roberts Oscar nom was not for playing the Master though. His performance in Runaway Train richly deserved the nomination.

The guy who played the Master in this won an Oscar??

He was nominated nominated for one.

Guess he's more famous than I was aware.

So, when exactly are we marking the 20th anniversary of this abomination? Today marks two decades since its underwhelming broadcast on Fox, but the premiere broadcast date was actually two days earlier, in Canada. And for the UK we have the scheduled video release date, the actual video release date, and the broadcast date still to come.

It's like UNIT dating, only even more boring.

Let's celebrate on ALL those dates!

That'll be fun won't it, Kate...

Well, if you absolutely insist on watching the TVM five times in close succession...

AAAGGGGHHHH! Gods, no, I didn't mean ANY of the celebrations had to actually entail WATCHING it...

Personally, I find it hard to believe that exactly twenty years have passed since that joyous day that I first saw the tale of a time traveller arriving in an American hospital and slowly persuading an initially sceptical female doctor that he is not, in fact, a looney - even as the future of the Earth hangs in the balance!

Then the next day I saw the 'Doctor Who' TV Movie, which wasn't a patch on 'Twelve Monkeys', but we can't have everything...

I think I tried to watch Twelve Monkeys once, in a fit of desperation.

Was that the really boring thing by some Python with some twist-I-didn't-get-at-the-end?

Say what you like about the telemovie, at least it was rubbish in an ENTERTAINING way.

Ah, but the TVM didn't spawn this hilarious meme:

http://newsthump.com/2016/03/03/psychiatric-hospitals-filling-up-with-time-travellers-sent-back-to-kill-donald-trump/

America doesn't need time-travellers to save it from Trump!

It just needs to VOTE FOR A WOMAN!

How hard can this BE?

It's not ROCKET SCIENCE, people!

A warning from the past: 20 years ago today, Doctor Who fandom fell collectively in love with something awful in a bad wig, with terrible consequences. Don't let history repeat itself!

WERE there terrible consequences, though? Those of us who adored it have to suffer the realisation that sometimes we have quite bad taste, but FOR GODS' SAKE WE WERE DESPERATE! And can you imagine how much worse it would have been if we HADN'T fallen in love with it? Our tsunami of public hatred could have crushed all hopes of our eventual Glorious Return.

Emily, I supose we should have a womam President, but we need to find one that can at least manage her email account.

WERE there terrible consequences, though?

Nine years of pretending that Paul McGann in a wig was the "current" Doctor, even though he spent the entirety of his on-screen tenure - all 60 minutes of it - looking like he desperately wanted to be somewhere else.

FOR GODS' SAKE WE WERE DESPERATE!

Quod est demonstrandum.

I supose we should have a womam President, we need to find one that can at least manage her email account.

No, you need to take a good long look at Donald Trump and then you need to vote for anyone who isn't Donald Trump, even if she's no good with email, hell, even if she's MISSY.

Nine years of pretending that Paul McGann in a wig was the "current" Doctor

But he WAS the current Doctor!

How the HELL were we to know about John Hurt!!

even though he spent the entirety of his on-screen tenure - all 60 minutes of it - looking like he desperately wanted to be somewhere else.

To (mis)quote City of Death, it doesn't matter what he LOOKS like!

To (mis)quote City of Death, it doesn't matter what he LOOKS like!

Given that coat and that wig, this is a good thing.

HE REGENERATED WITH THAT HAIR!

And it's a lovely coat!

And Doctors are SUPPOSED to look like they desperately want to be somewhere else in their regeneration story, it's TRADITIONAL.

HE REGENERATED WITH THAT HAIR!

So? Troughton regenerated with those clothes and no one thinks they were a natural part of his body either!

Emily, in the US we stopped listening to advice on polotics in 1776. (Although, its hasn't always worked too will. For example, Nixon.)

Troughton regenerated with those clothes and no one thinks they were a natural part of his body either!

Ah, but luckily the BBC, in its infinite wisdom, decided to TOTALLY RUIN OUR LIVES by burning Tenth Planet Episode Four AND The Evil Of The Daleks Episodes One to Six (just to be on the REALLY safe side) so you have NO CANONICAL EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER for your absurd assertions.

Emily, in the US we stopped listening to advice on polotics in 1776. (Although, its hasn't always worked too will. For example, Nixon.)

Nixon is a WONDERFUL HUMAN BEING who SAVED US ALL FROM ALIEN INVASION and whose only crime was to LISTEN TO THE DOCTOR.

And that business at the Watergate.

He only secretly recorded people because the Doctor told him to!

How about the "half human" Doctor, eh?

An early draft of the script for The End of Time actually addressed that in a conversation between the Doctor and Cactus Lady that went something like this:
Cactus Lady: Okay, let's review. Mr. Saxon isn't human?
Doctor: No.
Cactus Lady: Right. You're not human either?
Doctor: No. Well, I was, briefly. New Year's Eve, 1999. But I got over it, like the flu.

Source: The Writer's Tale.

Bless!

(Still doesn't explain that 'on my mother's side' nonsense, of course, and possibly it WAS wiser to just TOTALLY IGNORE the whole fiasco, but still...would've been fun.)

Time, Unincorporated: 'One amusing snippet about The TV Movie is that the BBC weren't keen to have Sylvester McCoy in the show – they actually wanted to show Tom Baker regenerate into McGann' – that's not an amusing snippet that's BLASPHEMY!

'Legend has it that the outline for the Paul McGann movie ends with something like "and then the Doctor gets back to the TARDIS and stops the Master in his own inimitable style"' - now THAT'S an amusing snippet.

Eighth Doctor: "these shoes! they fit perfectly!"

I know that feeling. I watched Schindler's List once, and I was like "that Schindler is an alright guy" but then I noticed that his shoes just didn't work with the rest of his clothes so now I think he's a jerk.

was I too harsh on Eric Roberts? Naww i wish they had managed to get Christopher Lloyd.

I just watched that episode of South Park where the townspeople eat Eric Roberts:

"I don't know about anyone else, but I'm taking some Eric Roberts home in a doggy bag!"
--Mr Garrison

OH.

I may have to reassess my attitude towards Lesser Programmes, based on that one line...

It's a shame so many possibles passed on the role of the Master. Mind you, having to pass a kidney stone would have been better than watching Eric Roberts...

In retrospect there were three good things about the telemovie: the Doctor and the Master and the TARDIS interior.

(OK, in the Master's case I probably mean 'enjoyable' rather than actually 'good'.)

Sorry. Never liked that Master nor that TARDIS interior. McGann was the only good thing for me, and even that requires ignoring all the half-human nonsense.

Fox's trailers spliced in footage of Trial of a Time Lord?! (Space Helmet.) AT LAST we know EXACTLY what's responsible for TSLABYOD! Well, the last Nine Long And Barren Years Of Despair of them, anyway.

Philip Segal wanted Terrance Dicks to write the telemovie?! Dammit, can you IMAGINE how much better it would have been!!

'He later phoned up and told me that the president of Fox Television wanted an American writer with an American TV track record and was pushing for Matthew Jacobs' - Matthew Jacobs had actually got a track record?! How come he didn't even manage to finish the script, then!

You know, if only the Doctor's Dad had spent less time lying around watching meteor showers and more time, say, PURCHASING LIFE INSURANCE, maybe Our Hero wouldn't have ended up snivelling in an orphanage barn.

GRACE: Did you know Madame Curie, too?
DOCTOR: Intimately.
GRACE: Did she kiss as good as me?
MASTER: As well as you.

Having finally got round to reading a few Marie Curie biographies, I have to say, the Doctor's casual slandering of her good name is disgusting in view of the fact she ended up wandering the streets like a hunted animal after a lynch-mob went after her when she DID have an affair (after she'd been long-widowed, with a man who was unsuccessfully attempting to obtain a divorce from the wife who was beating the •••• out of him).

Of course, the Doctor, being a male chauvinist pig until FOUR DAYS! FOUR DAYS TO GO EVERYONE!! couldn't possibly grasp how a few words can destroy a woman's 'virtue' and therefore her life.

everyone knows this story is called "Grace: 1999" ;)

You're assuming he knows her whole life history. I only know of the name, not her life, so the Doctor's comment doesn't make much sense to me.
And you can't really judge our caveman and cave women ancestors for their behavior from so long ago by our 'enlightened' 21st century morals and beliefs. That's just what our crappy world was, back then.
Having said that, it's definitely a tragic life, from your description.

You're assuming he knows her whole life history.

Well, YEAH, Marie Curie is one of humanity's most famous figures, the Doctor is hundreds of years old, barely sleeps, is totally obsessed by Earth...he'll've read up about her long before he actually met her (and that's putting aside his secret-except-in-the-telemovie abilities to read someone's timeline at a glance).

And you can't really judge our caveman and cave women ancestors for their behavior from so long ago by our 'enlightened' 21st century morals and beliefs. That's just what our crappy world was, back then.

Well, five men fought duels for Marie Curie's honour and Albert Einstein wrote to her saying 'If the rabble continues to occupy itself with you, then simply don’t read that hogwash, but rather leave it to the reptile for whom it has been fabricated', so even at the time the stuff the papers were saying about her was unacceptable.

Having said that, it's definitely a tragic life, from your description.

God yeah, she may have acquired two Nobel Prizes and two daughters as amazing as she was but she was hideously unlucky in love - first fiancée screwed her around for years because his parents wouldn't let him marry the family governess, Pierre Curie managed to get himself run over and her third lover - with whom she'd have had as brilliant a scientific partnership as with Pierre - managed to ruin her reputation whilst not managing to extract himself from his wife.

If we're to believe that the Doctor and Madame Curie were 'intimate' that raises a question. Which one was it?
It can't be pretty boy Eight, since he's only 24 hours 'old'.
Was it the short, Scottish elf with the jumper and umbrella? She did like men with accents?
Was it the short-tempered, heavier-set one with the appalling, colorful dress sense? Was she colorblind?
Was it the hyperventilating crickteer that travelled with the Mouth With Legs? Did she have a thing for guys with receding hairlines?
Was it the teeth and curls one with the scarf? Did she like how long his scarf was?
Was it the older, white-haired one that knew Venusian akido and argued with military types? Did have daddy issues?
Was it the Beatle mop-topped one, who constabtly cleared his throat? SDid she think she was dating Paul McCartney?
Or was the first and original Doctor, with his Edwardian clothing and distrust of mostly everyone? Did she have grandfather issues?
As you can see, when we limit her canoodling with the first seven Doctors, not one of which had any kind of sex drive or interest in women, other than saving their lives, the result is a bad line of dialogue in the movie that makes no sense.
Unless 'intimately' means he knew all about her just from what he READ, not what he experienced with her in bed.

Was it the short, Scottish elf with the jumper and umbrella? She did like men with accents?

Not that I noticed, and also, thanks to Sexy/the Time Lord Gift/whatever, McCoy might not even have had an accent, to her ears.

Was it the short-tempered, heavier-set one with the appalling, colorful dress sense? Was she colorblind?

There is simply no way she'd ever have been impressed by someone who dressed like THAT, her response to her brother offering to buy her a wedding dress was 'If you are going to be kind enough to give me one, please let it be practical and dark so that I can put it on afterwards to go to the laboratory.'

Was it the hyperventilating crickteer that travelled with the Mouth With Legs?

Even RIVER SONG only ever snogged THAT one when she wanted to give him hallucinogenic-lipstick-related amnesia.

Was it the teeth and curls one with the scarf? Did she like how long his scarf was?

Well *rapturous sigh* it IS a really long scarf...

Was it the older, white-haired one that knew Venusian akido and argued with military types? Did have daddy issues?

Not that I noticed.

Was it the Beatle mop-topped one

Well, Troughton WAS remarkably seductive, just look at the way he died - um, I mean, just look at the way he breathed 'Anything' in Astrid's ear...

Or was the first and original Doctor, with his Edwardian clothing and distrust of mostly everyone? Did she have grandfather issues?

That Hartnell was a heartbreaker, no question about it, but would McGann even remember that far back?

when we limit her canoodling with the first seven Doctors, not one of which had any kind of sex drive or interest in women

Hartnell DID have a granddaughter.

No, I don't want to think about the implications either, but the hideous fact does remain...Hartnell had a granddaughter.

Also, don't try to tell me the Cameca thing was entirely one-sided...

the result is a bad line of dialogue in the movie that makes no sense

What, just like every other line in the movie, you mean...?

Unless 'intimately' means he knew all about her just from what he READ, not what he experienced with her in bed.

He COULD have assumed that 'intimacy' meant a snog, I suppose.

There was some pretty epic gynophobia in the leaps fans made to reassure themselves that the Doctor didn’t have a mother, human or otherwise.

Sunshine, I'm a rabid feminist and I can't cope with the idea of the Doctor having a mother either. Or father. Or children. Or, y'know, sex.

Bloody telemovie.

Bloody (if fantastically wonderful) New Who.

Chang Lee should have been zonked on the head and decided he was a Vietnamese prostitute named Mei Ling. It worked for Cartman in South Park! (two South Park refs in one thread! I'm rolling here...)

Imagine Doctor Who USA, a full series with Paul McGann? *shudder*

There was a time I would literally have KILLED for a full series with McGann.

Mercifully those days are well and truly over, but I certainly wouldn't shudder at the thought of breaking up The Sixteen Long And Barren Years Of Despair with something a bit more televisual than BFs and NAs...

Resolution:

DOCTOR: Ryan's dad -
YAZ: It's complicated.
DOCTOR: Yeah. Dads are - so I've heard.

So Hartnell had seven grandmothers (It Takes You Away) and a fairy godmother (Vincent and the Doctor) but no dad?

Whatever happened to 'I remember I'm with my father, lying back in the grass. It's a warm Gallifreyan night'...??

I read that as she has daddy issues, but then realised she revealed too much and tried to save it with the 'so I've heard.'

Ah, that makes more sense.

Of course, she could always have been referring to herself, one always forgets she was a dad once, even when she was a he it was just such a weird non-issue...

Poor old Eric Roberts. He's an Oscar nominee, but in this he had a director who... oh, dear!

As i said, Roberts got a Oscar nomination in his career. Getting him for the TVM was actually a coup. He famously ended up costing more than Christopher Lloyd would have.

Big Finish were able to afford him, bizarrely.

There was a review by the New York Times of the TVM which compared the Doctor to Golden Age of Hollywood actor Gregory Peck.

If Terrance Dicks had written the script as Segal had wished, Roberts's Master might have been written as a mix of Delgado and an evil Bill Filer, the American man sent by the President in The Claws of Axos.

The half-human thing doesn't matter if Time Lords can change species anyway. And I suspect Leela is his mum.

Emily, Tim, Rodney, when the DWCV premiered the TVM, the one thing that sticks in my mind is the wave of laughter that rippled through the room when McCoy pulled a lever on the console labelled "brake".

Inhabitants of said room was obviously tragically unborn when they had the opportunity to see 'Fast-Return Switch' scrawled on Sexy's console. In felt-tip pen.

When Geoffrey Sax was casting for the 8th Doctor, he had a handful of American's in mind. Steve Martin, Tom Hanks, Harrison Ford and Jim Carrey were seen as possibles. Tim Curry was actually offered the role until Paul McGann was chosen. Do you think the Doctor could ever be American?, We've had Scots and he isn't human, what do you think?

HE?

(McCoy) they (/McCoy)

Tim Curry was actually cast as Eight but scheduling conflicts meant he had to drop out. I think Rodney and Tim would agree with me that Curry, while much loved for playing villains, wouldn't be accepted in an heroic part.

Curry is a good actor, though, and I've noticed that actors who play good villains can usually do a surprisingly good job playing heroes.

Do you think the Doctor could ever be American?

Sure, providing s/he spoke in an English/Irish/Scottish/Welsh accent.

It's just WRONG to have American Time Lords, Missy was just taking the mickey out of her Roberts-Master self in the Ravenous 4 audios on this very issue...

It would have been better to simply start with McGann, like New Who did with Eccleston.

I don't know what bothers me more: that the Doctor is now half-human for some reason, or that it served literally no purpose in the story anyway.

McCoy on the series that never was:
https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-12-20/paul-mcgann-doctor-who-series-ace/

I was about to start much wistful sobbing about a McGann series with loads of past Doctors when I noticed the article underneath and started wistfully sobbing about JODIE! wanting to be in a multi-Doctor story with Eccy n'Tennant instead...

Who is Who?: The Philosophy of Doctor Who:

The TWM is all about Romanticism, 'the period of Euro-American intellectual development usually taken to historically supplant the Enlightenment..."abstract principle is hollow unless rooted in and expressive of concrete practice...reality is revealed in the first instance by lived experience"...This perspective is reflected not only in the eighth Doctor's Byronesque hair and clothing and the "Jules Verne" chic of the new TARDIS console room...[but] in the very reconceptualisation of the reason for the Doctor's wanderings as a voyage of self-discovery' - Um, wasn't that clear as far back as Edge of Destruction: 'As we learn about each other, so we learn about ourselves'...?

There's an unused theme of Matthew Jacobs: 'Only when Doctor Who knows who he is will he be able to save us all. Only if you know yourself can you save yourself' - *wince* It's called Doctor WHO for a REASON, people! No wonder the TWM was a bloody disaster.

'Now, Who becomes concerned with the fates of individuals rather than embracing hard science fiction's concern with universal themes of progress or justice...The Doctor [tells Grace] "I can't make your dream come true forever, Grace, but I can make it come true today"' - isn't the Doc always as concerned with individuals as with progress/justice/ENTIRE PLANETS? (Well, not Colin Baker obviously.)

TWM?

"Terrible Wank Movie"?

*Reproachful look*

I meant TVM.

The glorious highlight of TSLABYOD.

(OK, that was Dead Romance, but the telemovie comes...second. Probably.)

One favorite tardis room as well. Looked chock full of memories and clutter. Yeah, sipping tea and playing 45 records. First time the Doctor looked so contented and relaxed. And, I appreciate the seventh Doctor preferring vinyl to CDs or MP3s.

First time the Doctor looked so contented and relaxed.

Let that be a lesson to him.

Pretty sure that was a 78, not a 45.

What's the difference?

Those numbers refer to the rotation speed they are played at, 78 rpm and 45 rpm. A 78 is also larger, typically 12 inches accross while a 45 is 7 inches. Both can hold around 5 minutes of play time on each side.

Both can hold around 5 minutes of play time on each side.

Awww, BLESS!

Thanks, Francois.

I guess I really should watch this again. But if it was a 78, then it was probably shellac, in which case we can't conclude the Doctor prefers vinyl. But my assumption might be based on North American shapes which required an adapter or a special spindle, which was less common in the UK.

A history of the 45 vs. 78 formats.

Interesting. Most of that I knew, but some of the details were illuminating, and he presented a lot of information in a way that remained interesting throughout.

(Sorry for the teacherspeak there.)

"I wunt the Ducter's buddy!"

Toe-curling...

Don't knock the accent until you've tried to differentiate between eight different Masters whilst listening to Masterful.

Roberts' American-ness is almost as much of a godsend as Gomez's femaleness...

Delighted that the new edition of The TV Movie novelisation (and DAMMIT they really should have named it, 'The TV Movie' looks deeply weird on a traditional Target cover) has a 'Changing Face of Doctor Who' intro. Less delighted that the library stuck a bloody barcode over the bottom half of it but still, appreciate the bit about Eight's appearance changing 'after an unfortunate incident aboard a space ship during the Last Great Time War' and 'an equally unfortunate encounter with the Sisterhood of Karn and an ornate goblet'. SOMEONE obviously thinks that becoming John Hurt is precisely as bad as dying and who am I to disagree?

'The "thanks very much" bit (2021 remix)' intro:

You TWEAKED A FEW THINGS? You can't just...TWEAK A FEW THINGS! Which version is CANON?! (Well, obviously, neither, it's a novelisation so I don't know why it's upsetting me more than the DVDs screwing around with the special effects, especially as I have no intention of rereading to find said tweaks at the current time, it's just the PRINCIPLE of the thing. Or something.)

The Golden Gate Bridge doesn't go over a river?

The people who DESTROYED WHO'S CHANCES OF COMING BACK FOR NINE MORE WRETCHED AND INTERMINABLE YEARS with their insane insistence on spending the first third of OUR ONLY CHANCE OF HAPPINESS THAT MILLENNIA •••• YOU shoving in and killing off Sylvester McCoy also made Gary Russell cut any novelisation mentions of previous Doctors...?!

The Golden Gate Bridge doesn't go over a river?

No, it goes accross a strait called the Golden Gate, that is part of the San Francisco Bay.

The people who DESTROYED WHO'S CHANCES OF COMING BACK FOR NINE MORE WRETCHED AND INTERMINABLE YEARS with their insane insistence on spending the first third of OUR ONLY CHANCE OF HAPPINESS THAT MILLENNIA •••• YOU shoving in and killing off Sylvester McCoy

"We have no choice! It's the only way to stop the bunny sledge!"

It didn't even stop the bunny sledge.

The Golden Gate Bridge doesn't go over a river?

No, it goes accross a strait called the Golden Gate, that is part of the San Francisco Bay.

It used to confuse me, because I wondered why a 'Golden' gate bridge was red!
I still maintain that (with no prior context of the local geography, and hearing the name on tv/movies without always showing an image) thinking the name referred to the colour and shape of the bridge was perfectly reasonable!

Addendum: I just remembered something that added to my confusion: An episode of Sliders* that had the Azure gate bridge that was painted blue!

*For Emily, a show where the heroes traveled between parallel universe versions of Earth.

I wondered why a 'Golden' gate bridge was red!

The GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE is -

- Oh for heaven's sake.

Quoted from the History Channel website:

The Golden Gate Bridge’s signature color was not intended to be permanent.

The steel that arrived in San Francisco to build the Golden Gate Bridge was coated in a burnt red and orange shade of primer to protect it from corrosive elements. Consulting architect Irving Morrow found that he preferred the vivid hue of the primer to more conventional paint choices such as carbon black and steel gray. The “international orange” color was not only visible in the fog, but it complemented the natural topography of the surrounding hills and contrasted well with the cool blues of the bay and the sky. Morrow ultimately selected the bold primer color, intended to be temporary, to coat the bridge. (The custom formula, manufactured by Sherwin-Williams, is no secret. It can be found on the bridge’s web site.)

SPOILERS FOR VILLAGE OF ANGELS:

Anyone else realising that having a Doctor who's half-Angel on her Division side is no problem at all, and therefore feeling the fresh sting of outrage - even after quarter of a century - over this 'half human on my mother's side' •••• that's just...so so WRONG?

Awww! There's a documentary following Jacobs around...sadly the best explanation we get for the half-human abomination is that it 'expressed the Doctor’s affinity with humanity, and would appeal to US television executives.'

•••• THAT.

Yes I posted the trailer of that documentary in the documentary section.

Ah, I SEE, I just took it for someone vaguely waving a camera round a Convention...

Aaaand twenty-six years on, we're still finding new reasons to hate the teleovie...

Gits tried to MURDER our Sexy!

Well, it was Fox, you know...

Let us be infinitely thankful that Who's fate now lies in the hands, er, paws, of Bad Wolf not Fox...

Bruce is 'alive and awake and aware inside me, screaming in silence', according to Master!: Nemesis Express, anyway. Unfortunately I find myself unable to care. It DID occur to me that the same was probably true of poor old Tremas during the Ainley Era, but, again...*shrug of helpless indifference*