Moderator's Note: This is Mike's original Colin Baker summary:

Okay, I'm going to admit. I liked Colin Baker...just not all the time. Besides, we shouldn't blame him for the mistakes of the scriptwriters, the major source of the problems his time.
Okay, so CB could really be OTT at times. Most times. And he had the distinction of being the fattest Doctor. Hmmm, I'm doing a really bad job of defending Colin. Anyone want to lend a hand?


He did have a good side to an extent. He just went around assuming that everyone should pay hommage to his superior intellect. Reminds me a little of how Adric whined so much about being misunderstood.

I'm probably in the minority here but Colin Baker happens to be my favorite of all the Doctor Who actors. I loved the costume. And the only script of his I had a problem with was "Revelation of the Daleks." The whole situation of that episode seemed rather silly to me (especially the DJ).
If you watch some of the other Doctors' episodes you will see times where they act exactly like Doctor #6. The Doctor was not supposed to be pleasant and nice to everyone all the time. He was supposed to do the right thing in a given situation.
I also don't understand all the Colin bashing I see in other areas of this website. Even if you don't like the stories he was in, you can't blame an actor for doing what the writers write!

You very right there, Chris. Most of the blame should go to the writers.

I think I speak for many of the posters here, though, when I say that Colin B. had a tendency to go nuts with the script, and not in a good way. Tom Baker could pull it off, but not Colin.

Chris: Don't diss Alexi Sayle!!!
I also quite like some of Colin Baker's stuff. Some of TOTL was quite good, I liked the 2 Doctors and Revelation.

Ed--I don't think it was a diss. Alexi's character was just superfulous (is that spelled right?); he did his funny bits then got kilt. I like the fat bas---er, fellow myself.

It wasn't a diss. I just thought it was silly to have a DJ talking to dead people in a Doctor Who episode. If the Doctor and Peri had materialized in a radio station on Earth I would have liked the character.

Over the Top? That was pretty much standard and much of the appeal of DrWho. I never understood the Colin bashing either, I thought he was perfectly fine. If you want to see Colin really going over the top you should watch the Blake's Seven story he was in, playing Babin (probably wrong spelling) the second most wanted criminal in the Federation, and upset that he isn't first. When he talks about his mother to Vila I can't stop laughing.
I didn't like his outfit, however, even knowing it represented his confused state of mind in the first couple of stories and the Trial of the Timelord was a mess though it did have some good stories. I remember when the Timelords accused the Doctor of Genocide, I took a double take and said, "wait a minute, didn't they order the 4th Doctor to do exactly that in the Genesis of the Daleks?" And they never fully explained how Mel (the all time DrWho scream queen, my ears bleed every time I watched one of her episodes)becomes his companion in the McCoy's episodes since that was in Colin's future, which were never realized.

Alexei Sayle's comments on his performance and Revelation were: "It was all right".
He didn't have a high opinion of Sylvester McCoy and felt he, himself, could have made an interesting Doctor. (His campaign to get himself voted the next Doctor never worked).

Sometimes I ask myself if people like the Sixth Doctor simply because they feel bad the way Colin Baker was fired from the role, but I think people really do like the Sixth Doctor for all his faults, and differences from the very human Fifth Doctor. I for one liked him from the start, despite that ghastly coat. His stories weren't the greatest, but I find myself liking his persona even more in the novels, as they explore what could have been.
His post-regerenative scenes are classic Who;
"Aaaah! A noble brow!...A face beaming with a vast intelligence!...Sweet?! Sweet?!...Wait a minute! I know you! You're the Chancellor! I don't like you."
I just wish there was some explanation for the coat. I always considered it the height of fashion on a planet populated by color-blind people, or perhaps it's something he wore to the 2001 Mardi Gras!

Some say he chose it because of his fragmented perosnality after he regenerated.

I always assumed he chose the coat because he was extremely happy to be alive after almost actually dying from the Spetrox poisoning. It was his way of celebrating life, sort of like wearing a fireworks display. He even laughs with glee as he pulls it off the hanger for the first time.

Nah, you see DW isn't actually real, it's a TV program right, so JNT went to the costume designer, and said "right, I've got this brilliant idea for a costume...".

;-)

Yes, but as the chief says, "I don't deal in reality." :)

Yeah, but maybe we're in a bottle universe or something, and the 5th doctor accidently steered the TARDIS there, where JNT crept on board, and left the costume there, presumably drunk after an exciting evening of throughing all the good 6th doctor scripts into the Thames.

"...and I've juss got time to [hic] to inshtall shom TARDISh sheat-belts toooo...!"

Er...'isn't actually real.'

Hmm.

Edje would you care to elaborate on that a little, I'm sure we must have different definitions of reality or something. You surely can't be suggesting that the Doctor doesn't exist?

Nah, that's why there was a smiley. Of course the Doctor exists, just in a different universe, where there were loads of alien invasions in the 70s (or 80s) and Britain had a space program.

Oh.

*Sigh of relief*

You REALLY had me worried there...

Fluff question of the week: Is the sixth Doctor the only Doctor not to have donned a hat?

If you don't count the policeman's helmet we wore briefly in "Attack of the Cybermen," then yes, he would be.

Don't recall McGann wearing one.

And Pertwee only wore a hat when he escaped from his hospital in Spearhead From Space.

Did Hartnell wear a hat?

I think he had a ski cap that he wore from time to time.

The publicity still of "An Unearthly Child" show him wearing a cap, but it's been a while since I've seen both the pilot version and the actual story, so I don't remember if he wore the cap in the story or not.

Hartnell did wear a cowboy hat in "The Gunfighters."

It's very likely he did wear other headgear from time to time; he was the Doctor that dressed in period clothing the most.

Hartnell also wore a white hat in at least one episode of The Dalek masterplan, when the Daleks confronted him in ancient Egypt.

Hartnell also had a hat in "The Chase," while sunbathing with Barbara.

Cushing didn't wear a hat as far as I can recall.

Cushing! He's no Doctor.

So I guess I better not bring up Trevor Martin or David Banks, then?

SSHHH! Emily might 'hear' you!

I HEARD THAT!!!!

Wait a minute...before I get upset, I'd better find out - who ARE Trevor Martin and David Banks?

Assuming my memory of this is correct, Trevor Martin played the Doctor in the stage production Curse of the Daleks. Video footage attempted to suggest that the third Doctor regenerated into this Doctor instead of Tom Baker (the play debuted between "Planet of the Spiders" and "Robot"). I believe Wendy Padbury also had a role in this play.

David Banks was the Cyberleader from "Earthshock" on. ("So, we meet again.") He also played the Doctor in a few performances of Doctor Who: The Ultimate Adventure when Jon Pertwee fell ill. His T-shirt-under-casual-suit combination looked like something Paul Simon might have worn anound the time of his Graceland album.

For that matter, why not mention Terry Walsh, who was a stuntman for more than one Doctor?

Ryan: you're almost right. Curse Of The Daleks was done in the 60s and didn't have the Doctor in it, just the Daleks. Trevor Martin played the Doctor in the stage production of Seven Keys To Doomsday in 1974, which also had Wendy Padbury playing a new companion, Jenny.
David Banks did wear a hat, a linen suit and a Greenpeace t-shirt. He stepped when Pertwee was too tired during a performance and for another one as well. So one-and-a-half performances, really.

Ack! So close...

Has anyone here seen any of the plays? I've heard most of them were less than stellar and the Ultimate Adventure was less than less than stellar.

Were they recorded at all?

I'd say: Curse Of The Daleks a definite no, given it was 1965 and it's probably the case with Seven Keys To Doomsday as it was done in 1974.
You think we'd have heard of any footage of The Ultimate Adventure by now, being showed at a convention or something.
In a 1990 Terrance Dicks interview in DWM he was supposed to be negotiating the rights to novelise The Ultimate Adventure but it's yet to see the light of day.

Did anyone understand why the Doctor suddenly had this "thing" for cats, by wearing that cat badge and having them sewn (not real ones) on the inside of his jacket.

Perhaps after being used by the Time Lords, he felt like a kitling and decided to put one on his lapel in protest. He changed his 'uniform' after the Trial, presumably because he feels they shan't bother him any more. Which they don't.

In the Real World, Colin Baker liked cats, got a cat-badge maker to rustle up a few cat badges to pay homage to Eric and Weeble, (his cats). Sylvester McCoy, (catless), got his comeuppance in his last adventure, (probably much to Colin's frustration), and was plagued by the critters. Ironically, this not only ended McCoy's tenure, but also the entire series. I think there's a message in there somewhere.

Maybe he is just displaying his culinary tastes, since he wanted to eat one in the Two Doctors while he was slowly turning into an Androgum.

Cat is an anagram of act.

Does anyone know why Colin Baker was fired?

The excuse given was low ratings but from what I've seen his ratings were at least as good as Peter Davison's and in some cases better

Colin Baker was a casualty of a couple of BBC honchos. The ratings for season 22 were okay, but Mr Grade and Mr Powell, (like Oak and Quill), came along and opened their mouths. Poor Colin Baker was replaced in a bid to wipe the slate clean and begin again.

Typical...fire the actor instead of the writers.

Yes, but grossly unfair as it may have been, it was the right decision (though sacking the writers, not to mention the Producer, as well would have been even better). Colin Baker was a thoroughly awful Doctor. Sorry.

But wasn't it the writers and producers who helped to shape this Doctor?

I think it was in the NA Human Nature by Paul Cornell that it mentioned that the 6th Doc actually changed his costume after a while to something a bit more subtle. Dunno what that does with continuity for Time and the Rani but perhaps C Baker would have been a more palatable Dr in a different outfit.

The Sixth Doctor changed his waistcoast and and bow-scarf around his neck - is that what you mean?

Emily, I disagree. Well, to a point. I agree that Colin Baker's era was a thoroughly awful one for Doctor Who. But for that I mostly blame the producer, not the actor.

I recently rewatched Vengeance on Varos, and was surprised to see that Colin Baker had a screen presence that almost rivaled Tom Baker's. Take away the coat, the horrible question marks, the disregard for life, the quip at the acid bath, the comic-book superficiality of the scripts--in short, take away the producer and bring in a fresh one--and I think Colin Baker would have been an excellent Doctor. He had the misfortunate of coming aboard at a time when the producer's vision had grown stale.

If JNT had left at the same time that Davison did, I think both Colin Baker and John Nathan-Turner would have much better reputations today.

First things first, I am not much of a fan of the 6th Doctor. That being said, lets continue.

Colin Baker is a good actor. He is no Robert DeNero, but he has the chops.

The writing was average to great in his stories. Average as in Twin Dilemna or Vengence on Varos. They weren't terrible as the Web Planet was. Maybe a little overstretched on concepts. It was great with Two Doctors. Maybe not as great as some of Tom Bakers stuff, but definately entertaining and humourous completely through. I also have good memories of Revelation of the Daleks, though it might be because I am an Alexai Sayle fan.

His choice of companions seemed to be a low point. Personally, I think Peri is a great companion, even with the bad American accent. I am not saying that because I am in love with her. Or maybe I am, but still she is better than average than most and is far greater than the scream queen Mel, arguably the worst companion the Doctor ever had.

His wardrobe sucked. But Troughton in the Fur coat was positively bizarre.

His character is basically a throwback of Hartnell's Doctor. While Hartnell was a great Doctor, there are times I really disliked him, especially in Romans, and his little episodes aren't explained away as symptoms of poor regeneration.

The way I look at it, the first stories of each Doctor aren't usually the greatest. There are some good ones, especiallly with Pertwee and Tom Baker, but usually we have to deal with getting used to the actor and his new persona as well as seeing the actor getting used to his role. Davison went on to be an excellent Doctor, as well as McCoy. The later episodes of Colin's were getting much better until Trial of the Timelord.

Trial pretty much killed Colin's Doctor. It replaced an average companion with a worse one. The Doctor becomes much more sinister. Sure, he really wasn't like that, after all he was framed. But it still showed on the TV. He wasn't a hero, but a victim in this set of episodes. And nobody wants to see our favourite Timelord being a victim for fourteen episodes. The show may have had high ratings. So what. Everytime there is a fatal car accident, there is a traffic jam from everybody slowing down to gawk at the dead people.

Trial became the test for the show. It failed. So the actor was fired. Grade didn't like him, anyways, and I suspect was not a fan of the show to start with. The fact Trial did have high ratings meant that Doctor Who would live for a few more years until finally it was cancelled. After all, a cheap show like Eastenders makes a lot more money. Doctor Who cost too much to these capitalists.

But when Doctor Who was cancelled at the end of 1989 it was making money, through overseas sales and everything else - why cancel something that was making money for the company?

Don't expect TV execs to be logical. Contrary to popular belief, "Star Trek" was canceled even though its ratings were quite high in the 18-30 demographics (the people with the most disposable income). The TV execs just never understood the show; I'm sure that was the case with "Doctor Who."

It's not just TV execs - it's any sort of management executives, as Dilbert can attest.

It's amazing how the most incompetent can rise to management position.

You can imagine the BBC like a Dilbert strip.

"We spend a million on this product and we get a three-fold return on it. Also, we appease some pestering diehard fans and we continue an institution. It would be madness to pack it in."
"Only a mad fool would pack it in then?"
(pause) "Yes."
"Wally...?"
"Hmm?"
"We're going to pack it in."

Lunier--it's called the Peter Principle. Basically, all people are promoted until they reach their level of incompentency. It's not a condemnation of management, just a simple fact.

It's not a condemnation of management?!?!

Well, it should be!

It's obviously a bad thing that should be made extinct!

Human Society. Not only do they pervert the Law Of Nature by passing laws that protect the stupˇd, they figure out a way to make them prosper as well.

We have to protect the ztupid, otherwise we are nothing more than Nazi's.

I was once a manager type person, and I found out soon enough that no one in their right mind would ever work in such a position. Working 80 hours a week and getting paid for 40, no vacations to speak of, the area manager sleeping with my employees so they would spy on me...etc...whoah flashbackitis, man. Needless to say, only an idiot could do the job. I wasn't one, so I quit and became a peon in some other company.

Now that I am back to what I am good at, I find that I make more money than my boss because my skills are more in demand than his. I get paid overtime, don't ever have to be on call, and I get three weeks vacation a year (a lot in the US, you Europeans don't know how lucky you are when it comes to paid vacations). It's great being a worker, again.

There's a great bit in the NA 'So Vile a Sin', where they show some alternative Doctors, and one of them is the 6th Doctor, who never gave up his life to become the 7th, and actually sobered up a bit after meeting Fenric ala 'Curse of Fenric', changing his costume to all-black with a light blue (or was it green?) waist-coat, and tying his now-long hair back into a ponytail.

That brings a very weird mental picture to mind.


Some latent Doctor Who memories have recently come back into my consciousness. A few years ago I attended a science fiction convention in Long Island, NY. One of the guests was Sylvester McCoy. He was a little late in arriving so while we waited a gentleman (I think from the Doctor Who staff) was giving a slide presentation on all the Doctors. He finished up Peter Davision and then said, "Next we had..." He switched to a slide of Colin Baker to which everyone in the room gave a standing ovation! The presenter seemed very taken aback. The slides he showed of Colin were not from his TV episodes but from the stage play when he took over for John Pertwee. Very interesting slides and a reaction that may not have happened in England.

(By the way, Sylvester gave a very charming and witty presentation. The only Doctor who actor I've ever met in person.)

Emily is a snot rag.

Take a look at this site(I'm not the only 6th Doctor fan!):


http://roswell.fortunecity.com/angelic/96/613.htm

Ugg - make it go away.

I don't mean that. I suppose. Really, it's quite amusing to see people try to find excuses like 'before its time' for the Colin Baker era.

That is an interesting site. The history of Colin's time as the Doctor and the history of the hiatus and final axing of Colin, reaffirms my belief that Michael Grade is the spawn of Satan. There is a lot there I didn't know, before. Very imformative no matter what your opinion of the sixth Doctor.

Gool ol' Michael Grade. He commisioned a US series (that I have never heard of) sight unseen for half a million pounds that just so happens to have his name in the credits as exec producer. Wonder at how much money he made off of his cut. This is something the Mafia do all the time. Can you say Conflict of Interests? I knew you can. Can you also say Corruption?

Go to Outpost Gallifrey to see what Michael Grade has to say about Doctor Who today!

He says that he'd get down on his knees and 'grovel' to get Doctor Who back in production again!

Reading that single piece of news made me more happy than all the rumours of new series' combined. It's akin to Whitehouse herself saying that she'd sell her body to raise funds to help our favourite Time Lord return to telly.

For a second there I had almost believe there was a god. Then I read more.

Michael Grade owns Pinewood Studios (and Shepperton Studios). He is probably thinking of all that moolah he'd get if Dr Who is filmed there.

It all comes down to cold hard cash.

Oh, well, I would still like to see Grade grovel at the Doctor's feet, for whatever reason.

Hummmm...blissful thought. We must decide WHICH Doctor's feet would be the most suitable for him to grovel to - and we have remarkably little experience of any of the Docs having to deal with a genuinely repentant enemy. Davison would be no good, he'd chicken out like he did with Davros. Even genocidal maniac McCoy would probably be too merciful to his sobbing fallen foe, a la Helen A. Hartnell would giggle evily, no doubt, but to deal with Grade's crimes against humanity that just wouldn't be enough (though maybe if we handed him a rock and asked him to demonstrate on Grade exactly what he'd have done to that caveman...?). I never thought I'd say it, but...this is one job for which Colin Baker is obviously the best-equiped Doctor. (And I'd be happy to supply any extra equipment required. An acid bath, for example.)

I couldn't agree with you, more. Something of a first, I think.

Especially if he chokes him after a regeneration, and Grade just not happen to have a mirror handy.

Unfortunately I suspect Grade would be exactly the kind of person to carry a mirror with him at all times...

I've just seen an interesting comment on the popularity (or lack thereof) of Colin Baker. WYBE, the Philadelphia station that carries "Doctor Who", has been faithfully showing all the episodes in order. But when they came to the end of the Davisson shows, they leaped immediately to "Time and the Rani."

Ha ha ha! I WOULD salute their acuity, nay, wisdom, were it not for the fact that anyone with anything remotely approaching good taste really should have skipped Time and the Rani as well.

I have never understood just why the 6th Doctor is so unpopular. I loved the stories in the mid-80's and still do today (like I do the vast majority of all Doctor Who). I have a shortlist of my least favourite Who stories but there isn't a Colin Baker one on the list (well maybe Arc of Infinity, does that count?). OK, The Twin Dilemma is a bit pedestrian at times and Timelash is very cheap and silly but great fun, particularly the overacting of Paul Darrow (supposedly Darrow's revenge for Baker's portrayal of Bayban in Blake's 7). Most of the other stories are fine (there are some minor problems with some but that is hardly restricted to this era.) At the centre of all these tales was Colin Baker himself who was always excellent. He was also superb in The Ultimate Adventure stage play and continues to be in his Big Finish audios. I also never minded the coat and even Mel wasn't THAT bad.

I never saw Mel; the coat was evil; and Arc of Infinity was a 5th Doc episode.

I liked Colin Baker's portrayal of the Doctor, it's just the lousy stories he was saddled with I hated.

I think I mentioned on The Leisure Hive board that I felt the overall quality of scripts started downhill in the 18th season reached rock bottom during the Colin Baker years & started to go back up in Sylvestor McCoy's time, then they cancelled the show.

Mandy, Colin Baker portrayed Maxil (the captain of the Galifreyan Guard) in "Arc on Infinity."

I have seen every existing episode of the entire series and Season 18 is my favourite season of all. Anyone who thinks it was a comedown after stories from the previous season like Creature from the Pit and The Horns of Nimon (although I am fond of both) is clearly lacking something (like good taste). Most of the seasons afterward are great too although season 20 is a bit poor and season 24 (AFTER Colin Baker) is my least favourite of all. It is possibly interesting to note that Seasons 23 and 24 were reportedly considered by Michael Grade to be more in line with what he wanted from the series (when compared with Season 22). You can make of that what you will.

Chris: OH - yes, of course! (now I understand the "does that count?" remark)

Actually, Colin was starting to grow on me (a little) when I was forced to stop watching the series after just a few 6th Doc episodes. Can't say I liked him, but he got less grating as he got used to the role. Peri, on the other hand, became more and more whiney.

Sorry, but the coat is still evil.

I wonder what the Second Doctor would have said about the Sixth Doctor's full ensemble, had he worn the coat in 'The Two Doctors'? If the Third Doctor is 'fancy pants', I guess Colin would be 'crazy pants' or something.

Crazy pants...crazy coat...crazy shoes...crazy cravat...the Second Doctor could have gone on insulting the Sixth till the Blinovitch Limitation Effect caught up with them and blew the universe sky-high.

(Actually I was severely disappointed with the standard of inter-Doctor insults in The Two Doctors (along with every other aspect of The Two Doctors)).

A couple of Sixth Doctor PDAs (Blue Box, Players) have had the Doc change out of his coat into 'normal' clothing, in order to be inconspicuous. Frankly it's a little too late to worry about that now. If only he'd done it more often on-screen, his stories might have been a little less painful to watch. As it is, I don't actually MIND him wearing the coat in books and audios.

(Slightly off topic)
I bought a print of the Simpsons as Dr.Who characters at the Comic Expo at the ExCEL centre, a couple of weeks ago.
Naturally, the Simpsons character who was portraying the 6th Doctor was Krusty the Clown !
Does this mean, however, that Sideshow Bob's is now a "shoo-in" for the Master ?

I picture Bob as a better fit for the Valyard.

Mind you, Homer Simpson as a Sontaran...?!
ROTFLOL !

A cute tribute to the 6th Doctor (and his coat!)


http://youtube.com/watch?v=tu2061ieHSc

Oh dear god. What a lot of bad, BAD memories that brought up.

But such good ones for me

(And many of the people who posted under the video too!)

The part that caught my attention was how much the length of C.Baker's hair changed. Don't know why I noticed that. Oh, and that his hair really, really looked like Harpo Marx's hair.

The "decolorization" of the coat at the end was interesting, too. Looked a lot like some of the audio covers for the sixth Doctor.

There's an article at GallifreyOne.com about new action figures for the First, Second, and Sixth Doctors, plus a Dalek and Troughton-era Cyberman.
They've colorized the Sixth entirely in blue, which makes his costume alot easier on the eyes. Too bad this wasn't his real costume.

Wasn't that what he supposedly changed his costume to in the audios?

In Real Time anyway, not so sure about the others.

he must have gone back to the multi-colored coat, in time for 'Time And the Rani', then. I rather like the blue, but I suppose that would have interfered with any CGI effects at the time.

They don't use blue-screening in Doctor Who. They can't, since the Tardis is blue, so they use green screens instead. A blue coat wouldn't have been a problem, and would have been much less garish.

ANYTHING would have been much less garish than that coat...

I liked the multi-colored coat, but that blue one would have been a good compromise between the costume Colin wanted (all black) and the "tastless" costume JNT wanted.

Perhaps if and when the 6th Doctor makes an appearance on the new series he'll be in the blue costume. I understand the audios are considered canon so it would make sense.

The audios are not universally accepted as canon, which is hard to do since the new series has adapted some of them, novels too. They were primarily considered canon before the new series.

I don't think Colin could feasibly come back as the Doctor, as he doesn't look remotely like how he used to. You could almost argue that since we didn't get a clear regeneration scene maybe he was old and, um, heavy, before bumping his head. The problem is that Mel hadn't aged.

. The problem is that Mel hadn't aged.

So she had some accident that stripped 30 years off her, problem solved. Alternately, Colin left her somewhere, had three centuries of adventure with other companions, then returned to Mel 2 minutes after he'd left her, probably by accident.

If they want to use Colin, they'll find a way to explain Mel.

he must have gone back to the multi-colored coat, in time for 'Time And the Rani'...

His blue suit was in the cleaners during his last adventure.

If they want to use Colin, they'll find a way to explain Mel.

...or once again the time differential is shorted out.

In fact, the story could center around the accidental premature aging of the Sixth Doctor, which the Tenth or Eleventh would have to find a solution for, since he knows his sixth incarnation regenrated looking much younger.
Easy science fiction explanation.

Ignoring the fact the Doc6 and Mel would be the least welcomed return pairing (and more importantly, that the actress herself will have aged significantly in the meantime to make all this immaterial), the Doctor could come back for Mel saying, 'You know...As much as I hate to admit it, you were right. It's so clear now! I really needed the exercise.'

'And the carrot juice?'

'Carrot juice! CARROT JUICE!"

'Doctor....' says Mel, tapping his waist.

'Oh all right. And the carrot juice.'

Or... Puzzled by the comment, the Doctor looked back at Mel. "I believe you're wrong," he said, pointing at her mass of long-flowing red hair. "You're a carrot-TOP! Nothing to do with juice at all."

Actually, now that I think of it, why exactly did this Doctor switch to an all-blue costume in that story? I would have thought he'd stubbornly keep the multi-cloured look, even if he had grown tired of it, if only to annoy his companions?

I got to meet Colin yesterday at Comic Conn in New York. I didn't know he was going to be there. I got a chance to talk with him briefly. He was extremely nice, jovial, and considerate to everyone there. I suggested that if he appears in the new series he might get them to make him the blue costume. He seemed to like the idea.

Here's an interview he did at the con (That's not me interviewing him):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkN-AgIpIFE

Actually, now that I think of it, why exactly did this Doctor switch to an all-blue costume in that story?

I note no-one's volunteering to relisten to Real Time to find out...

I suggested that if he appears in the new series he might get them to make him the blue costume.

*Heavy sigh* Look...I'm in awe of your self-restaint in not running screaming towards him brandishing an axe, but was it REALLY necessary to talk to HIM (or anyone, really) about the appearance of COLIN BAKER in our SACRED NEW SERIES? I feel contaminated just THINKING about it.

I'm in awe of your self-restaint in not running screaming towards him brandishing an axe, but was it REALLY necessary to talk to HIM (or anyone, really) about the appearance of COLIN BAKER in our SACRED NEW SERIES? I feel contaminated just THINKING about it.

Did you forget that Colin is my favorite Doctor?

(If Micheal Grade had been there then great self restraint would have been neccesary)

Actually, now that I think of it, why exactly did this Doctor switch to an all-blue costume in that story?

I note no-one's volunteering to relisten to Real Time to find out...

If I recall correctly, the "real" reason is that the story was also presented as an animated webcast and the multi-colored coat was nearly impossible to animate.

Oops! My mistake. I'm thinking of "Death Comes To Time."

Upon further review, I was right the first time.

(I'm a little confused today. A lot going on at work.)

Which means nobody explained it in a line of dialogue? He was just there in blue, and on with the story?

I actually haven't heard this one, so I couldn't say. But it's only clothing. There wasn't an explanation for the 4th Doctor suddenly wearing the burgandy coat and scarf, so why would it be necessary to explain the 6th Doctor's change of garb?

Not so much, except for the trivia of it. The Sixth's costume was the weirdest, and he was annoyed Peri didn't like it, so that's what made me wonder about the change.

Maybe he was just feeling a little blue that day?

Did you forget that Colin is my favorite Doctor?

Well, YEAH. (I recently realised that my appalling memory is a lot MORE appalling for facts which my mind finds difficult to grasp in the first place.)

But it's only clothing. There wasn't an explanation for the 4th Doctor suddenly wearing the burgandy coat and scarf, so why would it be necessary to explain the 6th Doctor's change of garb?

With anyone else in the universe it would of course be absurd to require an explanation every time they changed their clothes. This is, however, THE DOCTOR. Such an explanation is indeed called for, for Tom's burgundy, Colin's blue, and Tennant's mercifully-exiled-to-another-universe inferior blue suit.

The single worst thing ever done to Colin was a Liverpool Doctor Who fanzine saying that his son's death from SIDS was punishment for Colin's acting

Not even Emily has sunk that low

Yeah, some people can be scum. That fanzine should be ashamed of themselves. Even if you don't like an actor, there are some lines you shouldn't cross. This fanzine did just that.

Besides, it wasn't Colin's acting that did the show in, but rather his costume and scripts. We've seen from the audios he can do a great Doctor. Maybe another actor could have pulled it off under his handicaps, but we'll never know now.

We've seen from the audios he can do a great Doctor.

I'm not disputing you, but it was his and JN-T's plan to deliberately make the Doctor unlikeable at first and gradually make him a 'great Doctor.' So he definitely wasn't at first.

Talk about a plan that backfired.

When Tom dies, Colin becomes the oldest living Doctor and elder statesman of the surviving Doctors - that will stick in the craw of people like those "fans" from Liverpool

Kevin, I was referring more to the awfulness of the early 6th Doctor scripts, not the character of the Doctor. Just read some of the godawful dialogue in "Mark of the Rani" or "Timelash" for an example. Even if the 6th Doctor had been as loveable at the 4th, "Mark of the Rani" would have been a stinker.

it was his and JN-T's plan to deliberately make the Doctor unlikeable at first and gradually make him a 'great Doctor.'

I never saw him as unlikeable. A little grouchy maybe but I've got friends and reletives who are far grouchier.

Moderator's Note: Moved from the New Series: Season Six: General Discussion section:

"I don't mind the bow tie. Better than question marks all over his outfit, or an umbrella, or having some color-blind person make his coat."

Saw a dvd interview of Colin Baker last week and the origin of the coat was revealed.
We can blame JN-T (obviously), but also costume designer Pat Godfrey-- and color-blindness doesn't enter into it, surprisingly.

Godfrey came up with numerous ideas, none of which JN-T liked, so in a sarcastic mood, Godfrey did a quick mish-mash scribble of dumb ideas for a coat, and said, "Like this?" thinking JN-T would say 'no.'

Unfortuinately, he said, "Yes! That's it!"

And we got a bad outfit, because of that.

But I now like Smith's outfit more than in the beginning. I've been hit over the head with "Bowties are cool!" enough times to believe it now.

But I won't wear one to work!

Well, I didn't really think Colin was responsible for that monstrosity. It was bound to be someone with more power than sense.

I know...just wanted to clear up the colour-blind idea.
JN-T must have been out to lunch that day when he approached of the sarcastic unintended design.

Gods. I'm going to be more careful using sarcasm in the future.

Of course you are Emily...of COURSE you are.....

Pardon me for interrupting the Colin Baker roast, but what has this got to do with Season Six of the New Series?

It followed on naturally from the bow tie discussion. But I've moved it anyway.

And we were hardly roasting Colin. Just his costume.

I have to agree with Emily there:
imagine the 50th anniversary in 2013 with 70-year-old Colin Baker in his "clown" costume - it would look ridiculous.

Although I am a fan of Colin Baker's Doctor, I would agree to a certain extent. Perhaps if he does make an appearance they could make him the blue outfit but have the multi-colored one hanging on a hook in the back of the TARDIS.

Ooh, I'm not sure which was worse, the blue outfit, whose color was shocking in its intensity, or Joseph's multicolor dream coat. (Looked better on Lee Mead.)

This is shocking?

http://flyingsquirrel.ca/blogpics/realtime.png

Hard to tell from a cartoon. I just remember seeing a clip of him when he was in that suit and it surprised me because it was so blue. Maybe it was just the change from the other.

You probably mean this (or something similar):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJEw5xIDZZs


He really wasn't wearing a blue costume. Someone processed ths fooatage so it looked that way. It does give it a kind of "neon" effect. I'm sure an actual blue suit could be made that didn't glow in the dark.

Well when he wore of the official colour of mourning on Necros, it was a lot better.

You probably mean this (or something similar):

No, it was an actual clip, from his Dalek story, I think.

That's the one I'm referring to. I *much* prefer that, and it seems most people do as well.

Oh, I see. We're talking about two different blue costumes. I was referring to his Real Time/audio costume. I had forgotten about the "mourning coat" outfit, possibly because it wasn't a favorite episode of mine and I rarely watch it.

Whereas I suspect Revelation is one of my least-hated Colins, solely because of the mourning coat outfit...

To be fair, it's one of his better stories regardless of the costume department's belch of good sense. It isn't an all-time classic but it is a redressed Evelyn Waugh story with Daleks thrown in that works pretty well.

It's a redressed Evelyn Waugh story...??

Yep. The Loved One.

Huh. Haven't read that one. Just Decline and Fall, Scoop, and Brideshead Revisited. Any of which would have been a LOT more fun for a Who story. Sixth Doctor caught up in an African revolution? About bloody time! Sixth Doctor unjustly locked up for months? Yes please! Sixth Doctor dumped for not being a Catholic...well...it would be ORIGINAL at least.

It's very short.

Following Nick Courtney's death, Colin Baker has now been elected Honourary President of the Doctor Who Appreciation Society.

Well, he certainly appreciates Doctor Who. Even I can't deny THAT...

...But honestly, what's wrong with asking David Tennant, whose life's ambition it was to be the Doc?? Or even Eccy - just to see the look on his face...

...But honestly, what's wrong with asking David Tennant, whose life's ambition it was to be the Doc?? Or even Eccy - just to see the look on his face...

Rejection often hurts...

Perhaps it was a case of seniority in the world of Doctor Who. Colin's been involved in it for 27 years, so it's gotta count for something.
At least it wasn't Bonnie Langford!!!

Moderator's Note: Moved from the Caves of Androzani thread:

Here's an odd thought for you:what if Five was right about it going wrong-but wrong about how it went wrong??

Is it possible that Davison was supposed to regenerate into McCoy--but the toxin in his system caused him to get stuck in the middle(as C.B.) for some time???

It could explain so much about the Sixth Doctor as we know him.

Clearly he woud be unstable--he would have the drives and urges of at least two men in him(maybe even up to The Valyard) all pulling him to do different things,say other things, be a different person.

It might also explain the outfit--different persona(?) each adding his little accents to it--resulting in a mess.

It could also tell us why he regenerated again without the normal required injuries--this form would be unstable until nudged correctly(whatever happened when the Rani's ray hit) allowing it to slide into the McCoy Doctor as he should have.

This would have an added bonus of giving us one more regeneration in the cycle(to got from Five to Seven took only one instead of two).

Note: this should also make Emily happy--it would make the C.B. Doctor into an odd accident,instead of a normal Doctor.

Anyone have any thoughts???

My thoughts are that you are a ******* GENIUS and should get a ******* MEDAL.

The Doctor himself considers Colin a real incarnation so I think we have to. Isn't there some story were Ten or Eleven refer to themselves as such?

I'd say there are two ways to answer that:

1)The River Song way: The Doctor lies.

2) To avoid messy explainations:

Smith Doctor: you see I am the Tenth incarnation of me--this video record will show you the others--

Companion: Okey--1..2..3..up to ..11. Huh-how can you be the Tenth Doctor if rhere are eleven of you???

Smith Doctor gets pulled into long drawnout boring explaination on why the C.B. Doctor doesn't count(again).

Rodney hears Emily's screams of outrage about C.B. still haunting her after all these years!!!!

Pick whichever one works best for you.

(Sorry, Emily--I needed someone who would be loudly vocal if they heard this story too often.)

Is it possible that Davison was supposed to regenerate into McCoy--but the toxin in his system caused him to get stuck in the middle(as C.B.) for some time???

Wouldn't that cause him to be in a permanent state of post regeneration stamina as well, allowing him to regrow limbs and heal bullet wounds almost instantly, like we have seen Tennant Doctor and River do, in effect making him virtually invincible?

The Doctor himself considers Colin a real incarnation so I think we have to. Isn't there some story were Ten or Eleven refer to themselves as such?

Yeah, Matt points to himself and says 'Eleven' in The Lodger, but then it would be JUST LIKE the Doc to take pity on his weeks as that hideously mutated half-being Colin Baker and count him as a proper Doctor.

2) To avoid messy explainations:

Smith Doctor: you see I am the Tenth incarnation of me--this video record will show you the others--

Companion: Okey--1..2..3..up to ..11. Huh-how can you be the Tenth Doctor if rhere are eleven of you???

Smith Doctor gets pulled into long drawnout boring explaination on why the C.B. Doctor doesn't count(again).

An EXCELLENT explanation of why he doesn't go for the 'Colin Baker doesn't count' explanation (to misquote RTG's Queer As Folk).

(Sorry, Emily--I needed someone who would be loudly vocal if they heard this story too often.)

No apologies necessary

Wouldn't that cause him to be in a permanent state of post regeneration stamina as well, allowing him to regrow limbs and heal bullet wounds almost instantly, like we have seen Tennant Doctor and River do, in effect making him virtually invincible?

Is there anything in Colin's televised stories to suggest that he's NOT virtually invincible? Even if he doesn't realise it himself (owing to never acknowledging that he's No True Doctor)?

I've always felt bad for Colin Baker and feel he was blamed for things out of his control during his tenure on the show. He had no say in what scripts were selected, and had no influence in the writing (one has to wonder if CB had ended up working with Graham Williams and Douglas Adams, would he have been allowed the same leeway as Tom Baker did). One time, when he did ask about a scene, he was told to "just go away and act".

Add to the fact you had a BBC Controller who made no secret his hatred of the show (yes, Michael Grade, I'm talking about you). It was just a no-win situation and CB did the best he could.

At least the Audios have shown he can be a good Doctor if given a good script.

Yeah, well, let's face it...he only gets three or four good BF scripts (admittedly more than most OTHER Doctors get) but yeah, he CAN make a perfectly adequate Doctor when you don't have to SEE him, or, more importantly, his coat. And when there's not some idiot director standing there TELLING him to overact.

Gallifrey Base:

'The Collectable Art Company is to publish a series of Limited Edition Fine Art prints of the original Doctor Who costume designs.

The officially licensed range will be launched on 1st March with Pat Godfrey's final design of the distinctive, multi-coloured Sixth Doctor's costume.'

Why the HELL would they do a thing like THAT?

Well, at least they're calling it 'Totally Tastless'.

According to DWM, Eric Saward invented Orsini to show Colin Baker how the Greatest Assassin in the Universe SHOULD be played, after seeing Colin's attempt at this particular role in Blake's 7. ('Colin and I did not get off to a good start.') Would it not have been more effective just to 'accidentally' break Colin's leg before this godawful actor could become the Doctor?

Colin Baker @SawbonesHex
Any lawyers tell me whether the front page of today's Mirror is actionable? Huge headline, pic of me and tiny line saying I'm not involved.

I hope he can. Honestly, even I think it's a bit much plastering HIS face all over a sex-scandal.

Also his coat.

Didn't he train as a lawyer though? Why is he asking for legal advice? Did he specialise in maritime law or something?

He studied law a long time ago, then became an actor. Laws change over the years.

Although his Doctor has lots of experience arguing in a coutroom.

DON'T REMIND ME...

There is an old saying that " A lawyer who defends himself has a fool for a client".

I guess C.B, isn't as dumb as Emily thinks he is.

As long as Colin Baker didn't walk on screen in a normal outfit and say "Hello, I'm Colin Baker, I'm meant to be defeating that man in a rubber suit over there," he was indeed acting.

'There is a theory that the coat was just a take on John's love of his Hawaiian shirts and that in insisting on dressing Baker in this way, in curling his hair and encouraging him to give an extravagant, theatrical performance, John was, even if subconsciously, casting himself in the part.' - Life & Scandalous Times of JNT.

'I seriously think that the costume was the greatest mistake in the hitory of television.' - RTG.

"'I seriously think that the costume was the greatest mistake in the hitory of television.' - RTG."

So, not 'Torchwood' then?

Just Miracle Day was a mistake, Kate. The rest of Torchwood is okay.

Nah, Torchwood has been dreadful since Day One. Or Everything Changes.

I'd rather watch the whole of Miracle Day in one fell swoop than spend thirty seconds looking at THAT COAT.

Is that a bet?

It's a statement of fact.

If a male Colin wears that coat, would a female Colin look like Tammy Faye Bakker?

Another reference our esteemed moderator (and probably Judi) will not get....

Or, to be fair, most non-USAmericans.

Tammy Bakker:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammy_Bakker

DWM's Twin Dilemma Fact of Fiction: 'Hugo had mumbled something about "children" - the Doctor concludes that "children of great importance" have been "kidnapped by aliens". This staggeringly accurate deductive leap is evidence of another early concept for the Sixth Doctor's character. Nathan-Turner and...Eric Saward took inspiration from...Sherlock Holmes, deciding that the new Doctor would be able to make seemingly impossible logical deductions based on scant evidence' - actually, unlike every other idea they ever had about the Sixth Doctor...that's not a bad concept. Why was it dropped?

Probably because bad writers could turn it into a Bat Deduction.

I was watching a documentary about the history of Doctor Who on Space Channel. They were talking about the way the various actors came to wear what they wore when playing their versions of the Doctor, and when it was Colin Baker's turn to explain his choice, he recounted something I did not expect and which I'm sure will be of great interest to Emily.

Narrator:

Not every actor has had so much say in their Doctor's appearance. Colin Baker had a clear idea of what he wanted his Doctor to wear.

Colin Baker:

I was asked what I would like to wear for my Doctor, and I set about describing what turned out to be exactly pretty much what Christopher Eccleston got years later. I said a long black coat, dressed all in black I think. Someone who is going around causing havoc everywhere in the name of what he sees to be good is not likely to want to draw attention to himself. So, something that enables him to slip in and out unobserved, dark colors, slimming as well. You wouldn't know it now (points at his light color clothes) but I favor dark colors myself. Hum, so, there was a kind of brief pause, and then he said "No, I think you should be tasteless." I said (looking disappointed) "Oh! Allright."

Turns out the infamous coat was not CB's idea after all.

Will this change Emily's opinion of CB. Stay tuned.

Oh, I'd heard THAT years ago. And every time I see the Sixth Doctor I remind myself 'Not his fault, not his fault.' But I still hate him.

Poor Colin just cannot catch a break.

Poor Colin just cannot catch a break.
Not from our moderator anyway. The sooner you accept that the easier you'll sleep.

I get it, Tom Baker good, Colin Baker bad. At least that is how Emily sees it.

I disagree. Poor Colin just had the misfortune to arrive on the show during a perfect storm of bad luck (BBC Controller that hated the show, a Producer and Script Editor that hated each other).

Yup. I've said that for years but watching "Timelash" recently I also can accept that at times Mr. Baker's performance was less than stellar.

But Rodney--that's because Tim left a couple of points out.

First off:the costume designer gave a garish design,was told to go further, got ticked off and sarcasticly gave an outfit so over-the-top it would never be used--and was told it was perfect(It also didn't help that he was color-blind).

Add to that a director who kept pushing C.B. to over-act, and you can see that no one person's to blame.

I wonder if Emily would have given Rodney such a hard time over Fang Rock had it been a Colin Baker story.

Of course, Emily would see a CB Fang Rock with him shoving the lighthouse people into a vat of acid while reciting rubbish poetry.

Or at least that's what Emily would remember happening(even if it didn't)!!!!!

Poor Colin, a break just can't be caught for him from our esteemed Moderator.

TELL me about it. I'm TRYING to give him a break, I really am - it makes me feel positively schizophrenic to hate one-eleventh (one-twelfth? Oh, whatever) of the Love Of My Life, but EVERY TIME I start mellowing - realising that Colin on audio is every bit as good as everyone-else-including-Tom on audio*, positively ADORING him in The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot**...then he goes as does something like THIS:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03kkkg2/The_Day_of_the_Doctor_Behind_the_Lens/

in which his smug, smirking, condescending, IRRITATING narration makes me want to smash his head against the TARDIS console all over again.

*Obviously by 'good' I actually mean 'bad'

**Alright, let's face it, I adored EVERYONE in The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot. Even the ones I didn't recognise

So for those of us not blessed to live in the Doctor's favourite nation, what is it?

Oh sorry, how mean of the BBC not to share...it's a behind-the-scenes documentary about Day of the Doctor - if you can call it that when it's only a few minutes long - narrated by Colin constantly referring to 'we' this and 'we' that, just as if HE had anything to do with it.

If you go to www.doctorwhonews.net, there's a link to the full 31-minute special, which is on BBCiPlayer, but I saw in in its entiriety on the dcotorwhonews.net website.
It's dated November 24, 2013. Enjoy!

Here's a direct link:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UVt0NF5j0g


His narration was just fine.


constantly referring to 'we' this and 'we' that, just as if HE had anything to do with it.

If that's what the makers of the documentary want him to say, then that's what he going to say.

I just think the guy has had enough bad luck winding up fat and balding that any animosity towards him should be forgiven.

I liked it, Colin did a good job narrating it.

I still feel that he was treated horribly in the 80's. Michael Grade just needed a sacrificial lamb to show how he had "fixed" Doctor Who. Poor Colin was that lamb.

I just think the guy has had enough bad luck winding up fat and balding that any animosity towards him should be forgiven.

Most men end up balding. And most people WHO EAT TOO MUCH end up fat. That's hardly bad luck enough to be karma for RUINING MY LIFE.

I still feel that he was treated horribly in the 80's. Michael Grade just needed a sacrificial lamb to show how he had "fixed" Doctor Who. Poor Colin was that lamb.

Albeit a hideously multi-coloured and annoyingly bleating lamb who one was just YEARNING to turn into lamb chops, but yes, IF ONLY JNT had been sacked instead, POSSIBLY I could have stomached a year of Colin with a good producer, good writers, good directors, nicely slimming black costume...

...But he STILL wouldn't be good enough to be THE DOCTOR. Any more than I am. The Doctor should be the best.

Like John Hurt and Peter Cushing?

Or Hartnell.Pertwee,Davison,McCoy, or McGann?????

(And I'm thinkig Troughton only got a pass because of how few of his stories remain!!!!)

I mean come on Emily--without these men there would never have been a New Who!!!!

Be thankful for that at the very least!!!!

But he STILL wouldn't be good enough to be THE DOCTOR. Any more than I am. The Doctor should be the best.

Sorry, Emily, you may be Mod here, but last time I checked, you had no say in casting decisions for the show.

Besides, how old were you when Colin became the Doctor? 13?

yeah but at 13, girls kind of think "is this guy hot?" constantly so its not surprising that she turned against flabby, middle aged, looks-challenged Colin.

Theoretically you're right Judi but she didn't fall for Peter Davison either and he's more attractive....

Don't forget, Judi, we're talking about EMILY here. Emily, who's world of TV shows and movies is Doctor Who and nothing but. I doubt she has the same definition of "hot" as the rest of us.

Reaching back into my memories (don't forget, I actually lived in this time, the early 80's), the some of the current "hot" guys, according to magazines at the time were David Hasselhoff and Don Johnson. Seems a lot of the girls I went to high school with had a picture of one of them in their lockers.

However, Emily would probably have no clue who either of these men were. Reason: Neither appeared on Doctor Who.

Middle-aged? barely. He was 42 when he first played the part.
And he wasn't exactly Chris Farley-flabby back then.

You guys realize you make a much bigger deal about Emily not knowing non-Who people than Emily does, right?

I've given up trying to educate her on programs outside of Who. When Doctor Who gets cancelled in a couple years maybe... just maybe... she'll start wa...

naaah....never gonna happen...

An example I'd like to see others follow.

I've given up trying to educate her on programs outside of Who. When Doctor Who gets cancelled in a couple years maybe... just maybe... she'll start wa...

naaah....never gonna happen...

She survived, in her words, the Sixteen Long And Barren Years Of Despair somehow.


Back to Colin...

He wasn't a perfect Doctor, but he wasn't horrible either. His audios prove he can do the job well if given a good script.

Let's hope THIS is just a bit of tabloid scandalmongering:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/doctor-who/10480030/Former-Time-Lord-snubbed-by-Doctor-Who-50th-anniversary-show.html

Cos otherwise Colin comes across as INSANELY bitter. OF COURSE there should have been more former Doctors for our Fiftieth (ECCY! ECCY! WANT MY ECCY!) but how could ANYONE object to having TOM under ANY circumstances?

Plus, Day of the Doctor had the INCREDIBLE tact to mention that the Doc was revisiting A FEW old favourite faces! For all we know, Colin was one of them! (Well, OBVIOUSLY he WASN'T but TALK about TACTFUL...)

In my opinion, it was WRONG for the creators of DW to fire Colin Baker...he only read / acted out what the WRITERS gave him

It wasn't 'the creators of DW', it was that bloody Michael Grade. Apparently he was actually trying to get rid of JNT but didn't have the guts to sack him, so he ordered JNT to sack Colin instead, secure in the knowledge that any self-respecting producer would resign rather than carry out such an order.

Of course, it didn't quite work out that way...

And, of course, all this was shortly after Grade's plan to axe Who while pretending it was merely on hiatus had blown up in his face. Gods, he really WAS like a REALLY INCOMPETENT Who villain. How the hell did we let him defeat us in '89...

Not that I entirely blame Grade for wanting rid of CB or JNT. Neither were remotely up to their Sacred Task. And of course Colin (or rather Colin's coat) WAS the most visible possible sign of what had gone hideously wrong with Who...

The reason Michael Grade sacked Colin Baker was because, after moaning about how the show needed to be fixed for so long, he had to show the public he "did something." Getting rid of the lead actor was the most visible way of doing that.

Actually, Grade didn't try to sack JNT. JNT wanted to leave, but Grade wouldn't let him. According to TV Tropes, the reason Grade, and his successors, wouldn't let JNT step down as Who producer is because no one else wanted the job. In the late 80's, Who's popularity was in free fall and no one wanted to become captain of the Titanic after it hit the iceberg.

As for the comment about Grade "defeating us in 89." Grade left the BBC in 1987, thus he had nothing to do with the 1989 cancellation. However, the reason that happened is because the ratings just weren't there. When a shows ratings get too low, the show is cancelled. Period.

FRANCOIS in 'Doctors: Seventh Doctor (McCoy)' section: Colin strikes me as the most confident, devil may care Doctor.

Didn't Peri say something in Twin Dilemma about everything he does/every word he says being an act designed for an audience? THAT isn't confident and devil-may-care, it's a desperately insecure cry for attention.

Well, he wouldn't be the only incarnation of the Doctor to do so. Matt explicitely complained in The Impossible Astronaut that being extremely clever with no one to stand around and look impressed is rather pointless.

Though Matt did imply that it wasn't him-and-his-cleverness that were the pointless things, it was, in point of fact, Amy, Rory, and River...

Which means his extreme cleverness was a desperately insecure cry for attention.

Somehow I don't think this will change Emily's mind.

http://youtu.be/aZBFK5nkwB8

An interesting alternate point of view about the Sixth Doctor.

Bloody hell, I'm not listening to someone waffle on about Colin Baker for ELEVEN AND A HALF MINUTES. I wouldn't listen to MYSELF waffling on about Colin Baker for eleven and a half minutes.

Colin Baker: 'After the recording [of the regeneration in Caves] I went home, walked in to where my wife was watching television, and said, "I am the Doctor." She looked at me and said, "Oh, yes. Could you take the rubbish out, please?"' - I love that woman. (Plus, she was pretty good in The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot, but then, everyone was.)

Re his costume: 'The plus was that I was on the inside looking out' - fair point.

Why does Emily hate Colin so much? At least he wasn't a perpetually drunk scouse git like Tom Baker.

I don't hate Colin Baker. I hate the Sixth Doctor. And I hate the Sixth Doctor because he and his entire era were such rubbish they forced me to switch off Doctor Who.

And to say Tom was perpetually drunk is a) irrelevant and b) simply not true.

Aha! DWM has helpfully summarised ONE of the MANY MANY reasons why I loathe the Colin Baker Doctor:

'The Doctor, faced with oncoming guards, decides not to use the tried-and-tested "Run!", plumping instead for the ever-so-snappy, "There again, retreat another way might be a more viable idea."'

What kind of GIT thinks he's above just yelling 'Run!'??

And this in turn reminds me of that immortal attempt on Rec Arts Doctor Who to have each Doctor answer the 'Why does the chicken cross the road' question. Which in Colin Baker's case was something along the lines of: 'Chicken? CHICKEN? "Diminutive bantam" would be a more apposite epithet!' *Kicks chicken across road into acid bath*...

Flowery language is hardly a reason to hate someone.

It was the language AND the viciousness AND the clothes AND the stories AND, well, EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING!

His turn in The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot, particularly the scene where he forces his family to watch one of his old Doctor Who episodes on DVD.
"Great news, though! This one has extra features! Even more of me!"
—
"You're wasting your time, I've locked all the doors!"

Oh, of course when I SAID 'Everything' I MEANT 'Everything in the actual Colin Baker Era, 1984-86.' OBVIOUSLY he was marvellous in The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot - along with everyone and everything else - and equally obviously he's just as good (and by 'good' I mean 'bad') as any other Doctor in the audios, up to and including Tom Himself.

Poor Colin... a face for radio, and a voice for silemt movies.

Hey! There's nothing wrong with his face that I've ever noticed!

Admittedly that's because I'm too busy gawking in extreme horror at That Coat.

(Well, OK, so the JNT zoom-in-on-that-face-at-every-single-cliffhanger didn't do him any favours, come to think of it, but that was ALL JNT'S FAULT.)

And his voice is JUST FINE. Honestly, it never makes the blindest bit of difference to me WHICH Doctor is doing a Big Finish audio - I'll hate it just the same.

I wonder what would have happened had Colin Baker arrived on the show at a time when the head of the BBC didn't hate it. Or when a time the Producer and Script Editor didn't hate each other.

Would his era have been any better?

For one thing, Colin would have been allowed to wear the dark clothes he wanted for his Doctor costume. That would have been a big improvement right there.

THAT would have made all the difference in the world.

Sure, the Colin Baker era would still have been TOTAL RUBBISH but at least That Coat wouldn't have contaminated our beloved Name and Day of the Doctor...

Perhaps Colin would have been allowed more creative input into how to play the character.

I remember reading about when he had a problem with a scene, he was told to just "go away and act." by Eric Saward.

Yeah, they got rid of Tom Baker because he wouldn't put up with any 'whippet****' scripts without MASSIVELY improving them, and they got lucky in Peter Davison (took one look at his first script - Four to Doomsday - and just GAVE UP CARING) so they certainly weren't going to let COLIN get away with trying to improve things...

It was because of Tom Baker that Peter Davison and Colin Baker were reigned in. They didn't want either man gaining the kind of power that Graham Williams allowed Tom to have.

However much leeway they were granted, the chances of Peter Davison or Colin Baker EVER achieving the levels of fame, power and adoration granted The Mighty Tom are roughly...non-existent.

They might have, if Graham Williams had still been running things.

JN-T's predecessor as Production Unit Manager was sounded out about succeeding Graham Williams.

By the time Williams left, there were half-serious rumours that Doctor Who would be re-named to The Tom Baker Show or Tom Baker's Comedy Half Hour.

I just feel that many blame Colin for things he had no control over (the JNT/Eric Saward feud, Michael Grade's hatred of the show, Pip and Jane Baker's less than par writing).

However, as I have said, it seems the Audios that Colin has done has shown he can be a good Doctor if given decent scripts.

Someone (a Not We) just referred to the sixth doctor actor as "Colin Firth". That's made my day, it really has.

Ah yes, the famous sex-symbol. Well, who WOULDN'T get the two of 'em confused.

who WOULDN'T get the two of 'em confused

Anyone who can see they look NOTHING alike.

Wasn't the entire raison d'etre of the Sixth Doctor being a hateful git that everyone would loathe him at first - just like Mr Darcy - and gradually grow to love him - just like Mr Darcy - with JNT tragically overlooking a few minor details like Mr Darcy never actually trying to throttle to death any innocent young female in the vicinity?

Mr. Darcy?

Really Tim??? and you criticise Emily for not knowing things. Mr. Darcy is the male protagonist from Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice"- Colin Firth famously played him once. It's only one of the most central novels in English literature...

Never read Jane Austin.

Well there ya go. SOmething Emily can reference and you don't know anything about. Interesting turnaround...

I'm surprised Emily would know about Jane Austin's characters. None appeared on Doctor Who, after all.

Unless Tom Baker played Mr. Darcy in some movie or play I don't know about.

As for me, horror and science fiction was my thing. Not much of that in Jane Austin.

You never heard of her novels Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, or Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters? tsk tsk tsk *shakes head*

I'm surprised Emily would know about Jane Austin's characters. None appeared on Doctor Who, after all.

Bwahaha!

Jane Austen herself appeared (spectacularly pointlessly) in the Companion Chronicle Frostfire, Clara's teaching Pride and Prejudice (inaccurately, according to the Doctor) to her pupils in The Caretaker, and Peri was trapped in The Austen Experience psychscape in Sixth Doctor audio Recorded Time and Other Stories.

So there.

As for me, horror and science fiction was my thing. Not much of that in Jane Austin.

'Northanger Abbey' is one of the entries in 'Horror: The 100 Best Books' ed. Stephen Jones & Kim Newman (1988).

Great book Northanger Abbey....

I don't know what you're so smug about here, Emily. In my post, I suggested that you wouldn't know anything about Jane Austin unless there was a Doctor Who connection.

Well, you just confirmed that. Thank you very much.

So Bwahaha to you!

Ah! Hadn't thought of it like that.

(Actually Pride and Prejudice was one of my favourite books even BEFORE Who started jumping on the bandwagon (come to think of it, why the hell was there no Austen in Mind Robber?) but that's beside the point.)

Happy 72nd Birthday to Mr. Colin Baker.

Yep, today is his B-Day.

Colin Baker asked me to forward this message:

"Dear Emily, thank you very much for the lovely birthday cupcake that you sent to me via Royal Mail; it was very sweet of you to remember my birthday.
However, as I have gained an inordinate amount of weight since my tenure as the Doctor, I usually don't eat such things and tend to offer such confectionaries to someone else.
Therefore, your attempt to poison me has failed for the twenty-fifth year in row! Please cease and desist!
Best wishes,
Colin.
P.S. - You owe me one Giant Shnauzer. Preferably, a brown one that will respond to the name 'Bernard Number Two'. Thank you.

LOL!

If at first you don't succeed...

The perception that Colin Baker's Doctor was an idealized avatar or projection of John Nathan Turner himself is my own personal theory. It just seems so blatant to me. Arguably, at least some of the motivation, and the acknowledged motivation was to get a Doctor who was as different from Davison's portrait, as Davison had been different from Tom Baker. But the very choice of Davison, and the choices around Davison were extremely cautious and conservative. Turner was visibly playing it safe every single step of the way, from choosing an established star with whom he already had a relationship, to a conservative costume, a ship full of carry over companions, etc., he simply wasn't rocking the boat. But the choice of Colin Baker and the choices around him were much bolder and riskier, and I think, much more personal. Everything we know about JNT said the man had an ego, he liked the spotlight, and he wanted to be the big dog - he didn't like competition. Davison was Turner playing it safe. Colin Baker was Turner wrapping the show around his ego.

I do hope you're DValdron?

Yes. I'm interested in alternate history. I also write true crime articles for Wikipedia.

Well, that was different...

Colin Baker's 'approach to playing....Maxil was so arch (Baker even tried to effect a sort of comedy double act with his guard's helmet), John Nathan-Turner took to calling him Archie, and at one point intervened to ask him to tone it down. So you can be pretty sure it's the last we'll hear of him' - Space Helmet for a Cow.

WHY, gods, WHY?! (OK, sorry, we all KNOW why. Cos he was entertaining at a wedding.)

Let's take 'Old Sixie' - he tries to strangle Peri to death, overpowers a fake policeman (off-screen), shoots the Cyber Controller square in the chest, manoeuvres two guards into an acid bath, lays lethal booby traps involving stinging plants and a laser, and chloroforms Shockeye to death. Then there's a rather bloody hand crushing, multiple fatal stabbings and the murder of an old woman.

Yeah, 'being amusing at a wedding' (the reason JNT cast him) isn't exactly gonna come in THAT useful for being the SIXTH Doctor, is it.

I'm not sure what the point of hand-picking certain scenes of Six is about. Crossing the line and violence has been a staple of the series going back before we even heard of 'JNT'.

"...overpowers a fake policeman (off-screen), shoots the Cyber Controller square in the chest..."
Uh, you know those are good things right? You know the policeman and the Cyberman are the BAD GUYS, right?
P.S.- Five killed the Cyber Leader at point blank range in 'Earthshock', and Four could dispatch an enemy with ease, and not shed a tear.

"...a rather bloody hand crushing, multiple fatal stabbings and the murder of an old woman..."

None of which was committed the Sixth Doctor, so I'm not sure what your point is? Violence in the show? The Fourth was highly criticized for the drowning scene in 'The Deadly Asassin', Leela's Janus Thorns, and Three had Auton/policemen in 'Terror of the Autons'.

Crossing the line and violence has been a staple of the series going back before we even heard of 'JNT'.

Yeah, but it never felt as gratuitously NASTY as Colin's chloroforming and acid baths. And of course in the Tom Baker era there was always the feeling that whatever happened, Tom Baker would keep you safe.

I think they've already done a good Sixth Doctor remake. You might have noticed him. "Keeeraaaasy" estuary accent, converse trainers, personality ranging between bubbly and creepily pompous. (I think Tenth was basically an amalgam of the Fifth and the Sixth - very human, both in a good way and in a bad way.)

No.

My beloved Tennant has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with that drippy Peter Davison or abomination Colin Baker.

Aside from being the same person, and obviously that's just a technicality.

Colin Baker says that receiving an honorary degree from Buckinghamshire New University was 'even more exciting for me personally than the last time I became a Doctor in 1983' - TRAITOR! If there was one thing Colin had going for him (aside from being just as good as all the others at Big Finishes) it was his full awareness that being the Doctor is the Supreme Joy And Honour Of His (Or Anyone's) Miserable Existence.

Twin Dilemma came 200th in DWM's Mighty 200 poll and 'DWM's decision to print the results in their entirety led Colin [Baker] to decline to speak to the magazine since then' - oh I'M SO SORRY, maybe they should have just printed the first 199 results and let us work out number 200 all on our lonesome...

'"Darcy, in Pride and Prejudice - first few chapters, you think he's a prig, and a pig, and unpleasant, and arrogant, and supercilious," points out Colin, by way of comparison. "By the end of the book, you realise he's the only truly decent, caring person in the whole of the story"' - well, absolutely. That Jane Bennet, for example - what a •••••.

'A line of dialogue at the end of The Twin Dilemma alluded towards that intended evolution, but was overlooked by many. "I mean, we were left with the wink at the end of that episode," Colin points out. '"I am the Doctor whether you like it or not', and the wink that makes Peri smile - that was supposed to be a little tease. 'Oh, it's going to be alright.' But I think an awful lot of people didn't cotton onto that" - SERIOUSLY? You think I've loathed your Doctor for the past THIRTY-TWO YEARS because I DIDN'T NOTICE YOU WINKING?

(Well, the TARDIS Eruditorum certainly noticed your adorable winking and Peri's adorable smiling reaction and announced: 'That's how you kill Doctor Who in under a hundred minutes. You make it about a battered woman idolizing her abuser.')

Re his preferred ending for his Doctor: 'Something heroic, I suppose. I'd have been reluctant to finish as a snivelling coward, crawling away in my own terrified vomit, as the alien stomps on me, with me saying things like "Kill him, not me!"' - is it WRONG that I'm now DYING to see this on-screen?

'My daughters were watching Christopher Eccleston on television, as Doctor Who, when one of them suddenly said, "Hang on a minute - is this the thing you were in, back before we were born?", and I said "Yes". "What, you were Doctor Who?!"' - how could they JUST NOT KNOW THAT? HOW?

'I've only seen [Capaldi's] first two episodes. I've recorded them all but for some reason, there's other stuff that's risen to the top of my must-watch list before Doctor Who' - wow. After all this time, Colin Baker is still finding new ways of instilling murderous hatred in my heart...

"What, you were Doctor Who?!"' - how could they JUST NOT KNOW THAT? HOW?

I guess Colin isn't as egotistical as The Fivish Doctors led us to believe. ;-) No forcing his offspring to watch his old shows or off to the acid bath with them. ;-)

On the other hand kids can be awfully blase about their parents because... well, they're their parents. They see them all the time, and parents do things that embarrass their kids. The idea that people might admire their parents for something is an alien concept. Parents aren't cool.

I remember an interview with Paul McCartney where he was talking about playing with a guitar and trying to write a song and his kids told him to stop making noise, they were trying to watch TV.

Just think of all the old Beatles fans who would love to watch Paul compose a song, but to his kids it's noise.

Just think, one day Tennant's kid(s) will be trying to wrap his head around the idea that his dad & grandpa were the Doctor & mom was the Doctor's daughter. He'll probably think they're pulling his leg.

The idea that people might admire their parents for something is an alien concept.

I'm not expecting them to ADMIRE the Sixth Doctor, perish the thought, but to just not KNOW... of course, there WAS that entire Lost Generation during TSLABYOD...

Just think, one day Tennant's kid(s) will be trying to wrap his head around the idea that his dad & grandpa were the Doctor & mom was the Doctor's daughter. He'll probably think they're pulling his leg.

The kids'll need therapy and lots of it. It's hard enough for ME to get my head around that 'Peter Davison is the same person as David Tennant!' stuff and they're not MY father n'grandfather...

I'm not expecting them to ADMIRE the Sixth Doctor, perish the thought, but to just not KNOW...

Well, obviously they knew, it just had never fully registered on a conscious level.

Moffat in DWM: 'The point about Colin's costume, dreadful though it is, isn't just that it's bad, but that it's entirely the wrong costume for his character. The Sixth Doctor isn't a vulgarian. He's a snob...He's the kind of man who would hate someone who wore that costume...It's come to define him, but it defines a performance he simply wasn't giving...just turn the colour down - introduce yourself to a great Doctor' - yeah, I don't think I'll bother. Even if I had a clue how to turn the colour off.

Re Tom Baker's glorious appearance in Day of the Doctor: 'All or none, that's what I would have thought...by asking him and not us, it makes you feel like a second-class citizen' - but Colin, you ARE a second-class citizen.

The Star Trek Continues website has an Enter Site montage and includes Colin Baker from his appearance in the episode The White Iris.

Added Colin Baker to the list of actors who've done both Doctor Who and Star Trek.

Peter Davison: 'I heard an interview with Colin Baker talking excitedly about his plans for the show. Every idea was an inherent criticism of what came before, but it was hard to be angered by what he said. He'd find out soon enough, his wriggle-room was non-existent, and his great notions would come to nothing' - OUCH.

They should have had S22 as another Exiled to Earth format. Colin's Doctor would have worked an awful lot better as the over the top character in an ensemble of people dealing with the alien and the strange in a contemporary setting.

That's a very good point, and WE'D GET TO SEE OUR BRIG AGAIN! (On the downside, I don't particularly WANT our Brig to be contaminated by contact with the Sixth Doctor.)

Colin WI: Colin as Sideshow Bob and Kelsey Grammar as the Sixth Doctor?

To Emily, ColDoc was just in the wrong place at the wrong time - in front a camera rolling in Television Centre during the making of Doctor Who...

The idea behind the sixth Doctor was good. More alien (than Davison at least), a return to 'crotchety,' even giving him a garish costume was good on paper. Baker's idea that you would hate him at first but come to love him wasn't as good, especially as they only achieved the first part, and I'm not convinced they could have made the transition.

And Colin Baker is actually a fine enough actor.

The pieces just didn't gel. Baker for all his acting skill didn't have Doctorness. His character's arrogance was such that we saw companions and other characters dismiss him, so we had to watch everybody else take a justifiably superior position to him. Watching Davison being so humble was bad enough, but this...

ColDoc was just in the wrong place at the wrong time - in front a camera rolling in Television Centre during the making of Doctor Who...

How true, how true...

The idea behind the sixth Doctor was good. More alien (than Davison at least), a return to 'crotchety,'

Yeah, I loved it when they did it with Capaldi, it's just that judging by the viewing figures no one else did.

Baker's idea that you would hate him at first but come to love him wasn't as good, especially as they only achieved the first part, and I'm not convinced they could have made the transition.

Alas, we'll never know.

I, for one, didn't mind Colin as the Doctor. He got rubbish scripts, but that was beyond his control.

Fatso and Porky were used to describe ColDoc on the actual show. Those bars in the food machine must really be Mars Bars ;)

'Actually he's a good Doctor. He just got saddled with bad scripts' is a tired refrain.

Hopefully I won't have to update the pronouns.

'Actually he's a good Doctor. He just got saddled with bad scripts' is a tired refrain.

Hear, hear!

He ISN'T a good Doctor.

Hopefully I won't have to update the pronouns.

Of course not! JODIE! is ALREADY a GREAT Doctor!

Fatso and Porky were used to describe ColDoc on the actual show.

Ouch!

To Emily, Colin is not better than anything other than a cholera epidemic.

Colin's idea of being inconspicuous is like Red Dwarf's Kryten's - to wear a Spitting Image Ronald Reagan mask

Trial was a massive improvement, he stopped being cruel and trying to strangle people.

Imagine Colin Baker prior to Trial of a Timelord delivering his rant at the Time Lords for their corruption. He’d be too busy making cracks at people in acid baths

Oh my God, again with the acid bath! It was one bad episode from THIRTY-THREE years ago! Let it go, people! Basing an opinion on one incident in one episode out of the THIRTY-FIVE he was the Doctor is getting soooo old!
I was with you, Daniel, until you brought up the •••• acid bath thing.
I'm not going to be a Colin Baker advocate here, but the acid bath comments just bugs the hell outta me.
Like his really bad JN-T-created outfit. Now, THAT I've always had a problem with!

It's particularly annoying since the acid bath scene is so unmemorable (to some of us, anyway). As I wrote on the Vengeance on Varos board back in 2002 "Personally I didn't remember any scene in this story involving acid, but, based on Emily's comments, I was practically expecting the Doctor to ruthlessly shove a guy in and hold him under until he dissolves, all the while laughing maniacally. (Okay, not exactly. ;-)
However, the actual scene is the Doctor wakes up, a guy falls in, or is accidentally knocked in, & the second guy is accidentally pulled in by the first guy trying to get out. The look on the Doctor's face makes me wonder if he even knew that stuff was supposed to acid. Then he grabs his coat and says, "You'll forgive me if I don't join you.""

By comparison in The Sun Makers the Doctor booby traps some equipment so a man is electrocuted, then the Doctor quips, "Are you sure he wasn't deaf?" which is much worse as the Doctor was responsible for causing the man's death.

Guys, this is the Peter Davison thread. The Sixth Doctor thread is the next one down, please take the Colin Baker roast there.

Emily, perhaps you can move the posts in question.

Would I want to see the Doctor adventuring in a top hat like this?

Compared to what we got, yes.

https://m.facebook.com/colinbakerfanpage/photos/a.593498654050766/2221611394572809/?type=3&source=48

That's quite freaky.

An Old Tom is, utterly and unmistakably, the Doctor.

An Old Colin...isn't. Which shouldn't really come as a surprise given that Young Colin wasn't either. But then you'd think ONE of us might have mellowed...

And that's the most Doctorish garb we've ever seen him in.

Yep.

It might have been better if his Doctor died in shame/horror at "There's nothing you can do to prevent the catharsis of spurious morality" while the Valeyard laughed maniacally and poured carrot juice on his corpse.

Huh!?

This is quite a strong analysis of the Sixth Doctor era. His picks for top stories are very interesting....

I'm sorry, I'm not listening to someone talk about Colin Baker for twenty minutes.

What a wimp you are. Reckon you're just afraid of what they might say that might make you reconsider some of your more extreme opinions on his Doctor...

That was actually pretty good. He doesn't succeed in convincing me, but he still made a good case.

Getting off-topic, but youtube started playing this one next, and I couldn't help watching it. It's his take on his favourite Doctor, Christopher Eccleston, who, if given another season, might have unseated Tom Baker as mine but whose brevity cements #9 as my #2.

Try this one fist, Emily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRrMCMnZqDI

Or even 'first'. It wasn't a threat. :-)

**starts making chicken noises in Emily's direction**

You really didn't expect an objective view from Emily in regards to Colin Baker, did you.

A Doctor's tenure that gave us Sil can't be all bad.

The video is pretty good at talking about the many good facets of that era. I will still maintain that CB, for the most part, is an excellent actor who was lumped with largely turkey scripts, a producer and script editor that wanted out and a BBC that wanted the show gone. Big Finish have gone a long way to repairing the damage that Sixie endured when onscreen.

Reckon you're just afraid of what they might say that might make you reconsider some of your more extreme opinions on his Doctor...

Sunshine, I'd have BRAIN SURGERY if I thought for a moment that it would help resolve the unbearable, schizophrenic fact that I loathe one-fourteenth of the Love Of My Life.

Try this one fist, Emily.

Ah, THAT was actually quite good (despite the confusion over whether Eccy or Capaldi is the best Doctor, the belief that Rose is seventeen, the bizarre desire for Scherzo to be adapted, the blasphemous attitude towards End of the World and the fact the guy is incapable of counting down from FIVE).

I may possibly give his Colin one a chance, well, if Rodney stops clucking at me anyway.

A Doctor's tenure that gave us Sil can't be all bad.

True, there are several good things about the Colin Baker Era. None of which involve Colin Baker. But Sil was great (until ruined by Mindwarp and Mission to Magnus and Antidote to Oblivion). Arak and Etta were great. Um...Tranquil Repose LOOKED like some money had been put into the set for once...there were those few black-and-white seconds of Troughton and Jamie together in the TARDIS....bald-Peri getting shot was quite shocking, until ruined a few episodes later...OK, enough frantic barrel-scraping...

Facebook:

---

quote:

I wonder what it was like for poor Colin Baker to be given •••• dialogue, a laughable costume, and then to be fired as if these things were HIS fault
PS and I just realised that Jodie Whittaker came unbidden into my mind as I wrote that

---

I wonder if Emily will go out and buy Season 23 after this;

https://youtu.be/f-hWKv9ExtY

No.

Ah Steve, I put that trailer up a few days ago much to sniffs of disapproval from our moderator.

I for one can't wait for this set.

what most didn't like was Bonnie Langford (the BBC News showed clips of Just William as an introduction and an annoying kid screaming isn't the best assistant).

Hardly fair, showing a clip of a show she made as a child, IMO.

Langford was 12 when she played Violet Elizabeth in Just William and then had those singing-and-dancing specials with fellow child star Lena Zavaroni. You can see why many in UK fandom felt at the time that Langford's casting as Mel was the cherry on the •••• sundae that had turned out to be - for them - the Colin Baker era.

Since this is about Bonnie Langford, you'll find my latest reply in her thread.

DWM: 'The Sixth Doctor's iconic cat brooch was suggested by Colin Baker, partly as a nod to his own pets, Eric and Weeble' - ERIC AND WEEBLE! - but also in tribute to the Rudyard Kipling story The Cat Who Walked by Himself, from which the actor drew inspiration for the part' - which bit? The Sixth Doc isn't Dearly Beloved, he doesn't walk by himself, he doesn't babysit or eat mice and Peri and Mel never said ' 'Wipe you feet, dear, when you come in, and now we'll keep house' (see! The Colin Baker Era COULD have been worse after all!).

Yep, Colin is a cat lover.

Guess you like him a bit better now, Emily.

No.

Ah well, had to ask.

---

quote:

"The Colin Baker era of Doctor Who was the least successful in the series'
history. The mistakes made by the production team during this time ensured
that the show was cancelled first for eighteen months, and then for six
years." Discuss.

The Colin Baker era could rightly be labelled the least successful in the
show's history. However, this label must be applied with caution. Firstly,
it is necessary to define how it is the least successful. In the BBC's
eyes, success is based on ratings; in fans eyes it is based on story
quality. In ratings terms, Season 22 performed adequately; however, after
the "hiatus" and the disastrous decision that Season 23 should consist of
one, fourteen-episode serial, there was a marked and alarming decline in
viewing figures. Season 22 gained, on average, approximately 7.16 millions,
whereas Season 23 only managed to achieve 4.80 millions. Whilst it could be
argued that this was due to the fact that the show had been off the air for
eighteen months, it is equally true to say that the amount of public
attention the show's cancellation gained should have ensured that it
maintained the viewing figures of Season 22. That it did not points to the
fact that Season 23 was unpopular with casual viewers, many of whom must
have been disinclined to watch the serial due to its extreme length, and
because of the negative aspects of the previous season that had been
highlighted by the cancellation decision. Overall, the Colin Baker era
achieved the second-worst average audience of any era, only just above the
meagre figures garnered by McCoy. However, the McCoy seasons were broadcast
on weekdays opposite the then-most popular show on British television,
Coronation Street, whereas the Baker era was aired in Doctor Who's
traditional Saturday slot, and still, in its second season, failed to
achieve higher viewing figures than McCoy did in his second or third
seasons. Taking this into account, it is probably fair to say that the
Colin Baker era was less popular than the Sylvester McCoy era as far as the
viewing public were concerned.

As far as fans of the programme are concerned, Colin Baker is also
unpopular. In the near-definitive DWM poll (DWM 265) the Sixth Doctor was
ranked a clear last in the list of most popular Doctors, with an average
appreciation of only 62.27%. In the list of stories, a Sixth Doctor serial
does not appear "until 34 [the lowest "top story" place for any Doctor] -
aided by the Daleks. The Sixth doesn't turn up again until 50, and even
then he needs the assistance of the Second; it's not until 72, just above
the halfway mark, that he carries a solo story". In the ranking of the
twenty six seasons, Season 22 is fifteenth, and Season 23 is twenty-fourth,
both below the halfway mark. The bottom, and third-from-bottom ranked
serials are both Colin Baker serials - a terrible showing considering that
only eight serials were produced during the era, meaning that a quarter of
Colin Baker stories are amongst the very most unpopular ever.

Why should the Sixth Doctor's era be so unsuccessful, both among fans and
casual viewers? Perhaps the unpopularity is best explained by the
behind-the-scenes development of Doctor Who between 1984 and 1986. In the
first place, the era had a disastrous beginning with the most unpopular
serial of all time, The Twin Dilemma. John Nathan-Turner's decision that he
wanted the new Doctor to have a complete serial before the end of the season
was, in retrospect, a mistake. Lack of money meant that the serial looked
very cheap; problems with the scriptwriter meant that the finished product
was bitty and unpolished; and the fact that the new Doctor was to be
introduced as a dangerously unstable, violent, unlikeable troll meant that
both viewers and potential writers approached the following season with
strong preconceptions about the character. Of course, The Twin Dilemma was
also cursed by being aired after one of the most popular serials of all
time.

Season 22 bears the scars of these prejudices. In most of the scripts the
Sixth Doctor is presented as an arrogant, unlikeable bully; a bombast who
terrorises his companion, and tends to resort to violent methods in order to
achieve his ends (most notably the horrific murder of Shockeye, but also his
confrontations with the Borad, his actions in the Punishment Dome of Varos,
and his ultra-violent gun battles with the Cybermen). Of course, all
Baker's predecessors had, occasionally, resorted to violence, but their
likeable personalities, and the fact that the violence was either sanitised
or else not dwelt upon tended to obscure the fact that the Doctor, "never
cruel", had performed an act of great cruelty. This aspect was entirely
lacking in the Colin Baker era, largely due to Saward's attempts to make
violence "real". This, in many ways, was a positive change - previous
serials often downplayed the effects of injuries or violent actions.
However, when it was coupled with an attempt to make the Doctor seem more
distant, alien, and proactive than ever before, it meant that too often the
Doctor was the cause of the pain, rather than the allieviator. Add to this
the fact that Peri never questioned the Doctor's "spurious morality", and
the fact that the Sixth Doctor's character was perfectly summed up in three
lines at the end of Androzani, and never really built upon, and you have a
recipe for failure. The Sixth Doctor's character was, in many ways, at odds
with everything that had been establised previously, in that he freely
resorted to violence, had no compunction about using weapons, and showed
little remorse for his unpleasant actions. This violence, and the overt
violence of the season in general (the grisly deaths of the Sontarans;
Chessene's blood-licking; the Dalek mutations; Lytton's crushed hands; the
horrible deaths of the Varosian guards) was picked upon by BBC management as
a justification for the cancellation. Despite the fact that the violence
actually had nothing to do with the cancellation, it was a fair point to
make.

The over-use of continuity was another negative aspect of the era. Although
Nathan-Turner's early, continuity-raiding serials had gained plaudits from
the fans, Season 22 perhaps marked the point of overkill. Attack of the
Cybermen was a story entirely based, and in many ways about continuity - and
when that continuity was not only badly used, but also used confusingly it
alienated fans and casual viewers alike (there was a huge fall from 8.9
millions of viewers for episode 1 to only 7.2 millions for episode 2). The
Two Doctors likewise abused continuity - not only by wrongly attributing the
Third Doctor's traditional role as messenger of the Time Lords to the Second
Doctor, but also by its gratuitous addition of the Sontarans, and Time Lord
biology. It must have seemed that the show was becoming very introspective,
which, in turn, led to the narrowing of the fan base.

Season 23 used less continuity, but was so long and convoluted that it
probably alienated just as many viewers. The fact that after eighteen
months the production team had no idea where the new season was heading is
simply unforgivable. The confused finale, leaving many questions
unexplained, was a result of behind-the-scenes bickering combined with a
severe and inexplicable lack of preparation. Almost anything would have
been an improvement over the messy and uneven "epic" that was eventually
broadcast, but the fact that several long-commissioned (and largely
superior) scripts were left unused in favour of the Trial season is
astonishing. After the hiatus the new season needed an audience winner, a
big draw away from The A-Team. No such story opened the season, nor
appeared within it. This, more than any other mistake of the Colin Baker
era production team, is their most damning fault.

Despite the production team's mistakes, however, the real reason why the
show was cancelled was BBC management. The initial cancellation in 1985 was
so that money could be poured into the new Breakfast Service. However, it
had a severe and long-term effect. It meant that the show suddenly seemed
less of a constant; less of a solid rock in the schedules. It meant that
attention was drawn to the negative aspects of the show, and the allegations
that it was no longer suitable for a family audience. And it meant that the
show, inevitably, returned with a Sword of Damocles hanging over it, and an
immense question mark in its future. In short, the "hiatus" allowed the
1989 cancellation to go largely unremarked. It was the death of Doctor Who
as a much-loved family series, and the beginning of its period as a "cult"
show.

In conclusion, the Colin Baker era was the least successful in the series'
history. However, the mistakes made by the production team were not the
real reason for the show's cancellation. Rather, the production team's poor
decisions in Season 22 provided a damaging excuse after the fact for the
1985 cancellation; and this was compounded by the team's inexplicable lack
of preparedness for Season 23 which meant that the show failed to recapture
the viewers' imaginations after eighteen months off the screen. After the
fiasco that was Season 23, it was perhaps forgivable that the BBC needed to
make a public display of their dissatisfaction by sacking Colin Baker,
hoping that this move might assure people that the show *would* get better.
If only Colin Baker had been allowed more time to develop, unencumbered by
Saward's flawed vision of Doctor Who, he could have been one of the great
Doctors. As it is, he will always be remembered as the runt of the litter,
unfairly blamed for events entirely outside his control, and forever
tarnished with the negative image of Seasons 22-23.

---

TARDIS Eruditorum:

'Even in the much-vaunted Big Finish era, where he distinguishes himself from the others Doctor by dint of actually reading the scripts before showing up in the recording booth, his basic limitations as an actor are visible: he doesn't have a lot of tools other than getting louder' - thank gods SOMEONE'S said it, I've always tried to stay positive about Colin-on-audio to prove I'm not prejudiced against him, but...

Rob Shearman: 'Colin's Doctor, because it feels like a sort of strange truncated experiment of styles and ambitions that weren't allowed to be paid off, kind of allows you to be a lot more freewheeling about telling really interestingly structured stories' - well, if that's true only Rob Shearman ever bothered to take advantage, sadly.

"he doesn't have a lot of tools other than getting louder".

This woman (loud hacking cough) is obviously confusing Colin Baker with Brian Blessed.

Yes, there's a big difference.

Blessed has a beard, Colin has the gaudy coat.

And Blessed has no indoor voice, or at least a lot of his characters don't.

Anything would have been better than the somewhat hostile performance of Colin Baker (who never quite grasped the fact that he was no longer playing a villain, and failed to make the transition from the type of parts he had traditionally played to that of the heroic leading man: there was always something about Colin that reminded you of his role as "Mr Nasty" in the BBC1 1970s drama "The Brothers" which had made him famous).

So, Natalie, did you write this yourself, or just forgot to engage the quote feature this time?

just forgot to. Sorry. It's a comment from rec.arts.drwho

Big Finish have a sale on Sixth Doctor audios. Any recommendations from this list Em?

You know she'll recommend burning the lot.

Masters of Earth is the best of an extraordinarily unmemorable bunch. (I might stretch a point for The Last Adventure on the grounds that it kills off the Sixth Doctor but you've already got that one.)

Though of course burning the lot works for me too.

The Audios redeemed the Sixth Doctor for many.

Yeah, until you make the mistake of watching one of his TV stories, undoing two decades-worth of painstaking work with one horrific glimpse of That Coat...

Colin didn't do a regeneration story but it is a rare person who goes back to do one last favour for the employer who has just sacked and humiliated them.

Colin had every right to tell the Bonehead Broadcasting Corporation to get stuffed, IMO.

Yeah, but the BBC also had every right to tell HIM to get stuffed.

Yes, it was cruel and humiliating but you CAN'T put one person's feelings above the good of Who and he was all wrong as the Doctor.

And yes, there were several other things they utterly failed to do that were every bit as important for Who's continuation as sacking Colin Baker but that doesn't alter the fact that he and his Coat NEEDED to go.

Don't you mean that in your opinion, he was wrong as the Doctor?

Because that's what it is, Emily, an opinion, not a fact.

How many opinions/viewing figures/reviews/ignominious sackings etc etc over thirty years does it take until the success or failure of a Doctor (or writer or artist or whatever) becomes more 'fact' than 'opinion'?

I mean, Jane Austen being a better writer than Christopher Bulis is one of those 'fact' things, right?

Plus you don't have to say, 'in my opinion' every time you state an opinion. Readers get that.

Once again, I must point out that Colin Baker has often been blamed for things that were clearly out of his control.

The writing, the deterioration of the working relationship between JNT and Eric Saward, Michael Grade's hated of the show, Colin had no control over any of that.

And HE didn't like the coat either, so that has to count for something-- he's one of us.
Imagine getting the role of a lifetime, one that you've hoped you would get, and when you do...you get a rejected clown costume from Barnum And Baily's Circus!
And then you're told, "Be the opposite of Peter Davison; be angry and pissed off all the time! Fans will like that!"
'BBC 'should stand for 'British Broadcasters (that were) Clueless'!

And HE didn't like the coat either, so that has to count for something-- he's one of us.

He didn't SUFFER the way we do from The Abomination! He was on the inside looking out...

He saw it many times and continues to see it all the time.

Probably one of your more pathetic excuses for more CB hate.

But he said HIMSELF that 'The plus was that I was on the inside looking out'!

And I don't need any excuses for Colin-hate, it just...comes so naturally.

'BBC 'should stand for 'British Broadcasters (that were) Clueless'!

Another good one to go alongside my Bonehead Broadcasting Corporation.

Yes, he was inside, but he still had to see the sleeves, and if he looked down or sat down he could see nearly as much as us. And what's worse? The one hour see the coat in an episode, or the HOURS he spent WEARING the ugly thing?

Colin Baker is a kind and decent man. In the hands of say, Letts and Dicks, you would have seen a vastly better written Doctor. Look at how Ainley improves in Survival once he's no longer forced to go over the top.

Guess we'll never know.

Hey, maybe they'll bring him back for our Sixtieth Anniversary...

Could happen. Mind you, he'll be 80 years old then.

Yeah, well, SOME Doctors may deteriorate in appearance when they hit eighty but this won't apply to Colin.

Had it been any of those "this is my frost-covered moor!" detective dramas, Peri would have been brutally sexually assaulted as well as strangled in Twin Dilemma. It is all too easy to imagine the Sixth Doctor as Ted Bundy...

Colin Baker says that the Doctor is like a sheriff in the American Old West who comes into town, solves everyone's problems, and then rides off into the sunset before they can thank him.

Oh, what nonsense. The Doctor frequently a) does get thanked (Planet of the Ood, Next Doctor, Survival, Invasion of Time) b) can't ride off into the sunset (most of the Pertwee Era), or c) hasn't done anything to DESERVE any thanks (half Hartnell, Troughton and Colin Baker eras. I mean, who'd want to THANK Colin for, say, returning those twins? Abandoning those miners with nothing but a herbal sleeping-draught? Doing, um, whatever-the-hell he did in Mindwarp?)

Colin was the first actor to play the Doctor who has diabetes.

Happy birthday, Colin!

Happy 77th Birthday to Colin Baker!

Colin Baker reprises Bayban the Butcher in Avalon from Big Finish's The Worlds of Blake's 7:
www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/avalon-volume-02-2473?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=worlds_of_blakes7&utm_content=avalon2

Not only but Bayban gets his own story Bayban the Butcher in December 2021:
www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/bayban-the-butcher-2474

This marks the first time that Baker has played Bayban since the Blake's 7 TV episode City at the Edge of the World.

I think the Sixth Doctor travelled with Antoine de Saint Euxpery and Leon Werth as additional companions (I think Peri would have been there too) and inspired the Little Prince.

M CRANE IN THIRTEENTH DOCTOR THREAD:

I have to believe there's a fundamental difference between a single individual (namely Emily)'s, by now performative (almost theatrical) aversion to The Coat on this board - and the kind of wide spread multi-platform, sexist hate that Jodie has had to put up with.

Aww, that's so sweet! Even if I've honestly thought I've been bending over backwards to be fair to Colin. I was most touched by him calling me 'my dear Emily' (even if EVEN HE admitted him promising to rescue me sounded creepy) and I fully admit he is the equal of every other Doctor on audio and I've ALWAYS admitted his era was an abomination due more to the scripts and That Coat than to HIM, and as it turns out I felt EXACTLY the same amount of joy at seeing Old-Colin in JODIE!'s head as I did at seeing Old-McCoy, Old-McGann and Old-Davison. But none of this alters the fact he just wasn't good enough to play the Doctor. (In fairness, neither were Peter Davison or John Hurt but the scripts were good enough that this didn't RUIN MY LIFE.)

"...he just wasn't good enough to play the Doctor. (In fairness, neither were Peter Davison or John Hurt..."
You left the part about 'In My Opinion' while stating your OPINION.
We have a tiny group of readers here, but they don't all agree with your OPINIONS.

I gave you all the credit of assuming you realised it was my opinion. I mean, who else's?

Other people on other pages will include an 'IMO' with such posts, but sometimes yours come across as This Is Fact And Cannot Be Denied.

"...by now performative (almost theatrical) aversion to The Coat on this board..."
I don't agree. It comes across as raw hatred because there's no funny or silly voice saying those things, just a line of dialogue on a computer screen that can't always convey the actual meaning.

sometimes yours come across as This Is Fact And Cannot Be Denied.

I don't see how it CAN when it's talking about your favourite (and least-favourite) Doctors. I mean, even I occasionally disagree with myself on the subject of my favourite (if not least-favourite) Doctors. (I BETRAYED TOM BAKER?! For TWO different not-Tom-Baker-Doctors? What kind of slut/monster AM I!)

It comes across as raw hatred

It was raw hatred in the 1980s when Doctor Who - up to and including its Doctor - was so bad I actually...switched it off. It's mellowed considerably in the thirty-five years since...Look, I'm perfectly happy to not-talk-about-Colin if it upsets people, it's just that people (AND EPISODES! WOO HOO!) keep bringing him up.

Okay, I'll lay off beating you with my non-existent Sixth Doctor action figure. Perhaps I was a little sensitive a couple days ago.
What surprised me even more was "...was so bad I actually...switched it off." ?!?!?! I don't think I have ever heard you say that. I knew you didn't like it, but...off-OFF?! What season and after what episode? And I'm assuming you later (years later?) watched the episodes you missed?

End of Mysterious Planet. I (just about) survived Season Twenty-Two but when it became clear Trial was more of the same dross I just...couldn't take it any more. Who is the most wonderful thing in the universe. THIS is a godawful pile of ••••. Ergo, this is not Who and I am switching off.

Of course I switched back on again the moment I heard about the new Doctor and by some freak of pre-Internet-era fate that happened to be Dragonfire and Who and me were back together like we'd never been apart. Had it been Time and the Rani I'm damned sure I'd've lunged for that off-switch again so phew! Some non-existent deity was looking out for me that day. Except that of course I'd've tuned in out of sheer curiosity in 2005 and fallen right back in love and Time and the Rani would actually have SPARED me The Sixteen Long And Barren Years Of Despair waiting for the Doctor to come back to me. They'd just have been sixteen...perfectly normal years.

And yes, I have since atoned for my crime several times over. I watched the Trial videos more than once, I watched the Trial DVDs more than once, I watched the Trial DVD Extras, I read the Trial novelisations, and that's A LOT of atonement for something I maintain wasn't actually a crime. (Or if it was it wasn't MY crime. Who betrayed me not vice-versa.)

Wow. That's ALOT of atonement. I'm impressed. And ALOT of Melanie Bush!

Melanie Bush was the LEAST of my problems.

THAT'S how bad Trial STILL IS.

(I may be about to launch an (unconvincing) convince-myself-not-to-hate-Mel-any-more campaign cos she WAS rather sweet in Power of the Doctor and if I'm putting in the effort for COLIN...)

I just realised that with Colin Baker turning up in The Power of the Doctor, carrot juice is no longer his last on-screen words as Sixie and notwithstanding Dimensions In Time which everyone wants to overlook.

I s'pose they've all blessed us with on-screen post-Last Words bar JODIE!...Even Eccy managed 'For my next trick' in Day of the Doctor...

Does it really count if it's recycled from an earlier episode though?

Yes cos this whole 'earlier episode' thing is MEANINGLESS to canon...

Time's Mosaic:

'The Doctor turned bad every year in this era, even in the cancelled season. It happens in "The Twin Dilemma", "The Two Doctors", "The Ultimate Evil" and "Mindwarp". Even when he meets other incarnations, they go bad too! (Troughton gets better again, but the Valeyard doesn't.) Over half of Colin Baker's eleven TV stories contain a Doctor who's being evil!' - Blimey, I never quite realised this, probably because I've regarded the Sixth Doctor as irrevocably evil since the moment he opened his gob in Caves of Androzani...

'Colin's Doctor doesn't come alive without someone to insult and patronise' - ditto, probably because said Doctor has NEVER come alive for me...(OK, maybe in The One Doctor but even MEL comes alive in The One Doctor...)

As I have said in the past, many of the things that Colin Baker was blamed for were beyond his control.

He had no say in the writing, the budget, or any of that. If put in that same position, even Tom Baker couldn't save the day.

Yes and no.

Had Tom been forced to don That Coat and deliver That Dialogue it's true he couldn't have saved the day, if anything the sight of HIM being degraded in this manner would have made the era, impossibly, EVEN MORE PAINFUL.

However...Tom absolutely WOULD have saved the day by roaring 'Whippet-••••!' as he tore up the scripts, set fire to That Coat and just...IMPROVISED every episode for as many years as it took for Who to round up a few decent writers.

Dammit dammit dammit, if Ten and Fourteen are the same Tennant why the HELL couldn't Four and Six have been the same Baker...

Colin would have been more than welcome to come along for the ride...as Maxil.