Sometime Never...

Nitcentral's Bulletin Brash Reflections: Doctor Who: Novels: Eighth Doctor: Sometime Never...
Summary: The Council of Eight, a group of crystalline entitities, are the mysterious group behind Sabbath's efforts to create one universe out of the many. The Doctor and co follow the trail of the Council's Agent, who has been making small but significant changes to the Earth's history, leaving only crystal bones behind. After assembling the bones in 2004, the Doctor confronts Sabbath, who finally realizes that he's been manipulated by the Council for their own ends. The Council, in turn, has been trying to control the "rogue elemental" Doctor by kidnapping his former companions, as well as his adopted daughter Miranda. Sabbath foils their plans by doing something unexpected, Miranda sacrifices herself, the First Doctor is "created", and the multiverse is saved. I think.

Thoughts: If you're like me, you'll be happy to know that Sabbath is finally gone, and we can all move on with our lives. But I refuse to accept this new origin story for the Doctor, which utterly and totally contridicts everything we know about the Doctor. Now if only they'd bring back Gallifrey.

Courtesy of Mike

Roots: Isaac Asimov's The Ends of Eternity. DC Comics "Zero Hour" mini-series. The Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

By Mike Konczewski on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 11:25 am:

The other good thing to mention is that (IMO, anyway), this undoes all the silly killings of Sarah Jane and Harry in "Bullet Time" and "Wolfsbane, respectively. I'm even thinking that it could undo Liz Shaw's unfortunate death in "Eternity Weeps." Mel can stay dead, though. ;-)


By Emily on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 10:28 am:

Christ, this was bad. Bad in a hurtful, infuriating, and extraordinarily boring kind of way. Where do I start...

The first half of the book. Nothing happens. Unless you count the Doctor playing hunt-the-crystals. Which are then assembled to make a skeleton which...*sigh* chases the Doctor round some Institute for the middle of the book. Wow, that's original - the Doctor being chased down corridors by a monster. TWO monsters, just to make things EVEN MORE exciting!!!

Grow up, Richards.

Then we get onto the rest of the book. You know, the mass suicides and technobabble. Come back corridors, all is forgiven.

Trix - oh god, she's at it again. If you thought some of her previous disguises (like the Master's) were slightly on the pointless side, watch her don some padding and call herself Miss Crystal Devine for, literally, _no reason whatsoever_. Her disguise is SO pointless that even Fitz comments on 'Trix playing silly buggers for some reason'. (Having a character point out a flaw before the reader does is known as the 'You can't fire me, I quit!' principle of writing, and according to Lawrence is the lowest any author can sink.)

AND Trix is risking her life on the Doctor's say-so just as often and recklessly as any of his previous lemmings, sorry, Companions, despite the fact she's just supposed to be in this for the money.

Fitz. Might as well not be in the book at all. Lucky Fitz.

Sabbath. Goddess help us, Sabbath. If he was gonna be all reasonable and actually THINK about what he, not to mention the Doctor, were doing, why not do so months if not years ago? If the Council of Eight ordered him to kill the Doctor why did he not only repeatedly fail to do so, why did he actually save the Doctor's life? The attempted explanation that the Council are manipulating Sabbath into mistrusting them just enough for him to want to keep the Doctor around as an insurance policy is absurd - given that he trusted them enough to genocide millions of universes on their say-so. And speaking of him doing that - in the circumstances, how could the Council claim Sabbath was an unimportant part of their plans?

And in what way is Sabbath the kind of nice guy who'd condemn himself to eternal torment? (For ANY reason, let alone no reason whatsoever.) He's got a big gun. Octan's (um...his name IS Octan, right?) plans obviously involve Sabbath shooting either Octan or the Doctor, but there's an alternative to going for the big 'surprise' (which I guessed a mile off despite its mind-boggling lack of logic) of Sabbath shooting himself: He could shoot no-one. That would screw up Octan's plans WITHOUT Sabbath having to spend forever in agony. (I'll admit I was rather hoping Sabbath would die a hideous and lingering death, but even I didn't have something THIS hideous and lingering in mind.)

Oh, and he shouldn't let suspicious-looking little kids wrench guns out of his hand. Very careless.

The Council of Eight. Crystal. Like the Krotons, but not as scary. If they were prepared to sacrifice billions of universes to make their lives a bit easier, why would they rather sacrifice their lives than let all the humans in one universe get wiped out? Eh?

The science. Soooooooo not going there. Except...why should compressing all the universes down into one make predictions easier? Surely it'd make them a dammed sight harder, with ALL the alternatives having to fight it out in this universe instead of bogging off to another one.

The grotesque negation of The Adventuress of Henrietta Street. So...you thought Sabbath built his own time machine? Crewed it with babewyns? You actually believed that the Doctor's heart was killing him because it was linked to the darkness of the non-existent Gallifrey? Ha! Fooled you, suckers! Look, if you've only managed to produce ONE brilliant book* in all your years of editorship...it's a bad idea to **** all over it.

*OK, I was exaggerating - there are two brilliant books. Father Time as well as Adventuress. And speaking of ****ing all over them...

Miranda. I think it was fairly well established in Eternity Weeps that bringing a Companion back for the sole purpose of killing them off is a bloody bad idea. And at least Liz didn't DELIBERATELY top herself. Call me a raving feminist, but I actually feel having a strong, highly intelligent, galactic empress on your side might actually *gasp* be a bit of a help, not a liability!!!

It's all very touching for Miranda to think that she's the best possible hostage to force the Doctor to do what the Council of Eight wants, but, let's face it, the Doc would do his anguished 'Noooo! Don't hurt her! I surrender!' act for ANYONE. He's made it tediously clear in several previous EDAs that he wouldn't sacrifice a single individual to save the entire universe (moron). And, when forced to choose between Fitz and Miranda in Father Time, he chose Fitz. Despite not even knowing who Fitz WAS, despite the fact that Miranda was his beloved daughter, despite the fact that he got time- and space-travel AND the opportunity to save the galaxy thrown in if he chose her...he went for the Fitz option. So quite how she thought killing herself would solve all his hostage problems I don't know.

It's not as if Miranda had nothing to live for - she had a daughter AND a galaxy, for starters. And didn't it occur to her that the Doctor's surrender was just a bluff to stop the Vortex gun being pointed at her?! A bluff which WORKED. You can understand someone ageing themselves to death to avoid eternal torment, but ageing yourself to death because you knew your father was moderately fond of you...?

Um...maybe it's a bit tactless to break the news, given that it's a wee bit too late, but...hello? Sabbath? Miranda? WHAT THE **** DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING, PEOPLE??!!! Haven't you forgotten something? DADDY'S HERE! Yes - the bloke who saves the universe for a hobby! No need for you two to go round topping yourselves like there's no tomorrow! I know that it's the Eighth Doctor, who has been known to have off-days and carelessly mislay his TARDIS, memory, home planet, etc, but come off it - he could deal with this Octan bloke in his sleep! Especially when the oh-so-scary enemy couldn't - in the Doctor's own words - predict the toss of a two-headed coin.

Oh god, and then you've even got the DOCTOR trying to shuffle off this mortal coil via the Big Gun of Eternal Torment. I'm not saying the Doctor wouldn't consider suicide – it's perfectly understandable in Fear of the Dark - but here it's ridiculous. There are so many alternatives.

Richard III. Look, I'm a rabid Ricardian and even _I_ didn't buy all that (totally gratuitous!) Princes in the Tower stuff! Plus it's a rip-off of Timeless - extremely reluctant ex-Doctor's pal being forced to adopt the chronologically-displaced kids. (Poor Anji. Not only is she lumbered with a sprog with a penchant for evisceration AND a filthy dawg, she's gonna have the Princes in the bloody Tower popping round for tea all the time. If I was her I'd be BEGGING the Council of Eight to put me in a Schrodinger Cell.)

That bearded bloke at the end. Uh?

Strangely enough, the only bit of this book that DIDN'T annoy the hell out of me was the stuff with the First Doctor and Susan. It was very clever and very funny and obviously not a REAL origin-of-First-Doctor explanation. I saw it more as...well, you remember in Dead Romance that when the blonde girl took Christine's place on Lady Diamond's beanbag, and when she later proved to have nicked Christine's place in old photos too, Christine thought the universe had retroactively slotted the girl in? OK, she was totally wrong, but that's beside the point. I feel - and if Justin Richards didn't mean it to be taken this way, tough luck - that the universe is subconsciously trying to create a back-story for the Doctor to stop him being quite so much of a walking paradox (he really shouldn't exist, given that Gallifrey never has) and got it hilariously close to the real 'First Doctor flees Lords of Time with granddaughter, hand of Omega, bad memory and dodgy TARDIS' story.

Oh, and I liked the way all those Companions' deaths in previous novels were given a purpose, and (probably) undone. Though didn't it say that Sam died of an overdose, in which case who's the one gunned down at a political meeting? And it's not as if Harry REALLY died in Wolfsbane, I thought it was made pretty clear that once, quote, reality was cleared to land, he got home OK like he was supposed to.


By Mike Konczewski on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 1:52 pm:

The bearded guy was the Master. Why, I don't know.

It was black-haired Sam that died of an overdose; blonde-haired Sam lived to an old, gunned-down age.


By Daniel OMahony on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 3:24 am:

What are all those spaceships doing hanging around at the end of the universe? While I can accept (thanks to the miracle of Doctor Who Dodgy Science) that the museum could probably protect itself from the ravages of the onset of the very end of time, the idea of spaceships (and indeed organic life-forms) still being able to exist while physics crashes around them is daft.


By Emily on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 6:42 am:

And it's not as if the spaceships, and the people in them, served any purpose. Unless it's to tell us that people tend to panic when the universe ends. Wow, I'd never have guessed.

The Master is not wise, he is not whimsical, and he does NOT give the Doctor a pat on the head every time he saves the universe. And if Scream of the Shalka wants to claim that he's regrown his beard and got stuck on a TARDIS screen...well, that's Scream of the Shalka's problem. No need to canonise it, especially after its claims about the identity of the Ninth Doctor proved spectacularly wrong.

So if Singleton turned into Sole...where did the other seven crystal nutters come from?

And why, given that he KNOWS that his attempts to communicate won't work and his past self will shoot him with the Big Scary Vortex Gun, did Octan-the-skeleton persist in trying to have a chat? (And why did Octan-the-non-skeleton shoot him, anyway?)


By Mike Konczewski on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 7:11 am:

Also, the Master in SotS was a robot with his personality downloaded into it. Made it very handy for the Doctor; he just pushed the off button if the android acted up.

Of course, the Master that appeared in "Henrietta Street" acted very civil towards the Doctor too.


By Emily on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 4:42 pm:

Maybe the Master - like the Countess in Endgame - doesn't think it would be sporting to kill the Doctor when he's all useless and memoryless. The Master wants that 'last, lingering look' (Castrovalva), and it would take all the fun out of it if the Doctor was just staring blankly at him. (OK, there are plenty of times he tries to blow the Doc up at a distance, but as the Master knows perfectly well these don't stand a chance in hell of succeeding, he's probably not just trying to save face when he claims they're 'calling cards that lack the personal touch' (Autons).)

The slight trouble with THAT argument being that the Doctor DOES recognise the Master in Adventuress. Tut tut.

So maybe Adventuress is right when it claims the Doctor and the Master have to always be in opposition to each other - and not just when it comes to beards. With the Doctor rampaging around being the bad guy (well, what else can you call him after he blows up Gallifrey?) the Master feels the need to adopt a more benevolent persona.

Or maybe the Master thinks, with just four Time Lords left, he can't afford to waste any. Especially as there's every chance, with the Doctor gone and only one other TL in the entire universe, Iris Wildthyme would set her sights on HIM.

Or maybe he just wants to sit back, put his feet up, and let Sabbath take over the exhausting task of bwahaha-ing and losing to the Doctor every two minutes.

Or maybe he knows perfectly well that the Doc is about to keel over and die from his heart problem, and feels this would be a fitting end - no need to whip out that tissue compressor eliminator.

Or maybe he feels that, given long enough, the Doctor will find a way of bringing Gallifrey back. Fingers crossed...


By Emily Carter (Emily) on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 1:27 pm:

Richard III. Look, I'm a rabid Ricardian and even _I_ didn't buy all that (totally gratuitous!) Princes in the Tower stuff!

Well, of course not. Courtesy of Kingmaker, we now KNOW the so-called Princes were, in fact *drumroll* Peri and Erimem!

the idea of spaceships (and indeed organic life-forms) still being able to exist while physics crashes around them is daft.

Well, according to our very own Who and Science section, the universe is only gonna spread out more and more so maybe people and spaceships COULD hang on.

Except that THIS book claims there's gonna be a Big Crunch (my, how physics has moved on in so short a time) so maybe not.

Or maybe he feels that, given long enough, the Doctor will find a way of bringing Gallifrey back. Fingers crossed...

And he did! In Gallifrey Chronicles!

Alright, he then blew it up again in the Time War, but let's not quibble about minor details...

Interesting that in THOSE days I actually WANTED Gallifrey back, whereas these days I regard blowing it to smithereens as one of RTG's greatest decisions.


By Francois Lacombe (Franc0is) on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 2:18 pm:

Interesting that in THOSE days I actually WANTED Gallifrey back, whereas these days I regard blowing it to smithereens as one of RTG's greatest decisions.

Well, I consider it a shameful waste of a good planet and a reasonably good species. The only thing that really needed blowing up was Rassilon.


By Emily Carter (Emily) on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 4:30 pm:

How ironic - I consider them a rubbish planet and a rubbish species and the only time I really enjoyed 'em was when Russell T God gave us that brief glimpse of them...particularly that wonderful Rassilon...


By Emily Carter (Emily) on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 8:58 am:

Justin Richards in DWM: 'The Doctor in a room in the TARDIS where he never goes...is to tie in with Scream of the Shalka' - what self-respecting novel would want to tie in with Scream of the Shalka?!

'Originally, my hope was that we'd use the Daleks...but given that we couldn't, I had to think "who's the best opponent for our hero...?"' - WHY couldn't you use the Daleks? (Did someone read the Peel EDAs?) And what makes you think some crystal monsters will make an adequate substitute for the DALEKS?

Why is he suggesting that his re-invention of the Time Lords 'almost' ties in with Time and Relative? THAT didn't imply they were made of crystal.

'Building a story around the series' own mythology is either rather insular and sad...or a clever thing to do and something that we should explore. It's the sort of thing that Lawrence Miles does so well!' - yeah. He does. You don't.


By Emily Carter (Emily) on Wednesday, October 30, 2019 - 3:42 pm:

'One day they'll all get crunched back together as the universe shrinks and implodes, of course' - oh, OF COURSE Doctor. (Always embarrassing when I know more science than ANYONE, let alone THE DOCTOR.)

No one bats an eyelid at Trix using the anachronistic 'Your Majesty'?

Trix mistakes ex-Prince Edward for a 'small girl'? He's a young man of almost fifteen, and when the historical records, er, abruptly cut out when he was twelve, they described him as well-grown. (In contrast, Fitz identifies Edward's YOUNGER brother as an approximately-fourteen-year-old male. (Even though he's barely had his twelfth birthday but hey, people grew up faster in those days.))

I think this book gets 'the first boy' and 'the other boy' thoroughly confused but I'm damned if I'm gonna waste any MORE of my time trying to establish this for sure.

'We are as free as you are. I am the Duke of York, Edward is Prince of Wales' - um, how can you still delude yourself that you hold those titles when you've been declared illegitimate? And how can you regard yourselves as free when you haven't left the Tower of London for two years?

Earth is 'the one planet that has the best defined timeline from start to finish. From the birth of the planet itself to the final death of the last of its children' - UH? Earth has an APPALLING timeline! It's changing ALL THE TIME, mostly thanks to that meddling Doctor! (Also, Cracks in Time and, er, stuff.) Also, the last of its children are STILL ALIVE at the time of the end of the universe - see Utopia and Last of the Time Lords.

'Like Time itself - an ever-rolling stream bearing all its sons away...' - its SONS?

'On the day that Richard the Third is about to be replaced by Henry the Seventh' - Richard didn't lose Bosworth the DAY he left London!

Why do the Crystal Men keep info-dumping stuff they must have known for eons at each other? 'Entering the vortex from here is not a problem - we can open a corridor that will protect you from the ravages of the Time Winds and prevent you being ripped apart by the vortex' etc etc.

'I have been threatened so many times, in so many ways in my short life. Threats against me hold no terror. They are for us both, I suppose, a way of life' - uh? The Princes spent most of their lives as the cherished heirs to their father's throne, and then a couple of years (according to this book if no one else) as the cherished heirs to their uncle's throne. When exactly were all these evil threats supposed to HAPPEN?

'She's Empress of somewhere or other now, I believe' - she declared absolute power over every particle in the UNIVERSE. Parents should remember this sort of thing, they're always supposed to be boasting of their kids' achievements.

'She glanced back at the creature. Maybe it was her imagination, but it seemed larger, closer...' - she KNOWS it's not her imagination - '"The creature is moving," Fleetward pointed out. "Very slowly, as it is less affected. But it is moving. It will catch up with us soon."'

'Tortured for all eternity - aged and re-aged, never dying, never alive' - so is eternal torment the destiny of EVERYONE who ends up in the Vortex? People should be more careful opening Sexy's doors.

So Sabbath is referring to his 'erstwhile employers' on one page and his 'employers' on the next?

Am rather confused by the Doctor's claim that the corridor will come out uncontrollably randomly...AND that there's only one place it can come out.

Ashtek had't eaten or slept for days WHY exactly? She knows her monitoring-the-universe job is entirely pointless. And it's not as if lacking food and sleep will make her BETTER at it. And shouldn't she be dead or hallucinating or something by now?

'"They think that the transduction barriers will protect us in here," Korsann said. "Will they?" Ashtek wondered. Would the barriers buy them a few precious minutes, hours? Days even? Singleton's answer was quiet and final. "No," he said' - Ashtek hadn't thought to wonder this BEFORE?

How is this consistent with Fifth Doctor audio Singularity's portrayal of the end of the universe? (It's my duty to ask but let's face it, I don't really care, I dislike Singularity even more than I dislike Sometime Never...)

'"Professor?" Singleton seemed impressed. "A man of learning then"' - how does this fit in with Utopia's 'even my title is an affectation. There hasn't been such a thing as a university for over a thousand years'?

Kudos for the nice New Who touches - the watching-the-end-of-the-world/universe-as-cultural-experience, the Twice Upon a Time title, the TARDIS-reduced-to-a-box...

'If it was not your hourglass, why did you agree?' - the Council of Eight is too stupid to have grasped the principle of threatening your loved ones?

'I have no idea. But I have some unpleasant notions' - so unpleasant notions don't count as IDEAS?

'"Is there energy to be reaped from a temporal paradox?" Hexx asked' - you don't KNOW? Isn't this sort of thing fundamental to your ENTIRE EXISTENCE?

'"A paradox is a loop, appropriately enough," Trilon said. "A closed system. It makes no difference to the equation"' - I got the impression - from, say, Mawdryn Undead - that paradoxes could create a LOT of energy.

'He took a deep breath, forcing himself to stay calm, forcing his grief to the back of his hearts. He could grieve later. There would be time for it later. Many lifetimes' - except that, um, the Doctor never DOES bother to grieve for his daughter's brutal death. I seem to remember Fitz calling him out in a later EDA about how totally he didn't give a .

Ah, the Council of Eight are too stupid to realise how DNA works. Amazing how they managed to run rings round the Doctor (and Sabbath) and destroy all those universes, isn't it.

Why didn't Sabbath just shatter his hourglass to kill himself? Why go down the whole 'eternal torment' route completely unnecessarily?

Soul 'doubted they could hear him' through the crystal barrier even though he can hear them just fine?

Why didn't Trix recognise 'Chad'?

'I got her killed, perhaps both of them' - but of course you can't be arsed to see if your granddaughter is, y'know, ALIVE or anything.

There really isn't any indication in any of the other EDAs that the Doc chats to a Shalka-style Master in the TARDIS. EVER. Certainly not when he meets the Master in Adventuress of Henrietta Street.

You know, I can take crystal Soul becoming the First Doctor with barely an eye-roll, but Sabbath's stupid Jonah boat becoming Sexy? Come off it.

Acknowledgements: 'I would like to thank Lawrence Miles and Lance Parkin for creating such memorable and enduring characters as Sabbath and Miranda. Somewhere in another universe no doubt their adventures with or without the Doctor will continue no matter what I choose to have them do in this book. And that universe will be the richer for it' - THAT'S how you live with yourself for MURDERING them?! Haven't you just DESTROYED all the other universes, anyway?


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