Just read this. Enjoyed the story.

Death by paintbrush stabbed in eye.
Eeugh.
Cool, but eeugh.

Have you read Just War? Personally, I'd rather have my eye splatted by a paintbrush than gouged out by Roz's thumb...but maybe that's just me.

Glad someone else enjoyed Eternity Weeps, because it didn't rate highly on the internet voting site. I loved it, but could have done with more of the Doctor. And I found myself repeatedly (and annoyingly) thinking 'why do they call it terraforming when it's [insert name of alien planet]-forming, and it's DESTROYING terra?

Nope, haven't read Just War yet. As I've mentioned previously, I stopped reading the NAs after Ace left and have only just started to catch up, thanks mainly to this board!

Jolly good point about the terra-forming.

One thing I wondered. When Bernice is transported to the moon and meets up with our ill-fated Liz Shaw, Liz reacts with appropriate suspicion upon realising that Bernice's fellow traveller is a gun-toting maniac and Bernice attempts to reassure Liz that she's one of the good guys. So why didn't she drop the Doctor's name? She knew of Liz's previous connection to him. Surely that might have given Liz pause for thought and Bernice may have avoided being stunned ...

It just seemed like the obvious thing to do.

All that marriage stuff in the first couple of chapters left me cold. Perhaps it's cos I've never been a big Bernice fan, and because this is the first NA I've read involving Jason Kane, but I found both of their attitudes irritating and a million miles away from my own experience of marriage (now stretching to a formidable 3.5 years). I wanted to shout "Quit complaining and talk to each other!".

But shouting at a paperback would have looked pretty daft.

So I didn't.

If you're a Doctor Who fan, you're already considered a certifiable lunatic (in my experience, anyway) so you might as well live up to that reputation - shout all you want.

Despite an merciful lack of experience of marriage, I have to agree that Benny and Jason were pretty unconvincing. So he flirted with a Frenchwoman! So what? Benny should have been concentrating on feeling guilty for the destruction of a tenth of the human race (it would never have happened if she hadn't told whoeveritwas how to operate that transmat to the Moon) instead of getting at Jason.

About Liz Shaw...are you sure Benny knew about her being a previous companion? If she did, there's no excuse for the failure to name-drop. But maybe the Doctor just didn't mention Liz - he doesn't bother much with happy reminiscences of old pals.

So are you finding it easy to get hold of old Doctor Who books? I certainly am not. It took me over six months to track down Lungbarrow (it was NOT worth the effort) and I am now desperately in need of So Vile a Sin, which has vanished off the face of the Earth.

Don't you have used bookstores in the UK? That's were I get the majority of my books, Who or otherwise.

You could also visit the www.800-trekker.com website. Despite the name, it's a good source for all things science fiction, including Doctor Who. They have an excellent selection of original Who novels.

Yes, we call them second-hand bookshops. (My father runs one, though his Doctor Who section is pitifully small, mainly because of my tendency to nick them.) I know I won't be able to find the New Adventures in most new bookshops, because Virgin pulped them (I wonder if 'you start off by burning books and end up by burning people' also applies to pulping?).

I prefer to stick to libraries, for obvious reasons. The only Who book I'm currently desperate enough to fork out money for is So Vile A Sin, and there is a distinct lack of it in any bookshop. According to something I read on the Net, this is because it was published right at the end of the line, and because it was so popular. Btw, I recently spotted Set Piece and Damaged Goods - anyone think they're worth £1.50?

Each or apiece? I think they're three pounds fifty/each new (sorry, my American keyboard doesn't have a pound sign).

There's another reason to check www.800-treker--they're having a sale. They just moved to new HQs in Reading, PA. I might be driving up there in June to check out the bargains.

Each. Even I wouldn't be miserly enough to hesitate when faced with a 75p Doctor Who book.

I've checked out the website - my trust in your word was (just) strong enough to overcome a certain well-founded aversion to the word 'treker'. It seems to have practically every book except So Vile A Sin.

I've been completing my set gradually, mainly through Waterstones around the country when I'm travelling. Branches in smaller towns seem to retain a few of the Doctor-inclusive NAs and I'm daft enough to shell out a fiver for them. Sometimes I'm glad I did so, sometimes not ...

Having just come back from a week in Stratford, I made it to the Coventry Forbidden Planet, which had a fair few copies available (new) for £1.50. Not bad.

Re - Liz Shaw. As Bernice recognises Liz from the other alternative-Earth adventure (is it Blood Heat?) I figured Liz's connection to the Doctor would have been discovered, either during the story or afterwards. Could well be making incorrect assumptions ...

One other thing which left me a little confused. When Jason uses the rings to travel to the home world of the aliens, he is placed in a state of 'suspended animation' for a thousand years, whilst the aliens mess about with the technology he showed them. His account of this adventure seems to indicate that he was actually aware for the duration, and indeed he returns to the TARDIS crew on the moon complaining that he hasn't eaten for a millenium.

So was he frozen, awake or something in the middle?

Surely being aware of ones surroundings for that length of time, though presumably impotent to affect them, would leave a human being insane? Especially considering that Jason had undergone a realisation that his actions caused the whole mess.

I'd completely forgotten about Blood Heat. I can't imagine Benny would have spent the whole book in ignorance of the Doctor's reunion with an old companion, so the only explanation is that she's an idiot. Or that she's picked up the Doctor's habit of not telling anyone anything because it would spoil the enigma.

I gathered that Jason had been almost completely frozen, to the extent that time seemed to be whizzing by, and he saw everything in fast-forward. It's not clear how much subjective time passed for him during those thousand years, but given that he didn't wet himself (admittedly not always a reliable indicator where Doctor Who is concerned) not a lot.

The alternative explanation for Jason not going insane is that he was insane all along. Or maybe it DID drive him mad, and that's why he divorced Benny and decided to stay on a planet which seemed the least desirable residence in the galaxy at the time.

From the presentation of Bernice as a married woman in this adventure, I wouldn't say that agreeing to a divorce is a sign of insanity!

I'll go for the fast-forwarding of time explanation. It all seems highly improbable and (dare I suggest) an ill-defined means of allowing Jason to report the events back to the Doctor. It's not the first time I've accepted highly improbable. Surprisingly enough ...

Perhaps Jason perceived time the way the Traveller did in the film version of "The Time Machine." If you've seen it, you'll recall that time on the outside passed very, very quickly for the Traveller. He himself only experienced a few hours. This would fit Jason's description; he saw the events, but only enough time passed for him for him to be hungry, not starved to death.

Sorry Mike, you've lost me. At the risk of appearing entirely ignorant, "The Time Machine"??

If time is speeded up so much, surely all you'd see is a blur?

George Pal directed the film version of the story by H.G. Wells. If you haven't see it, you should. A good Who fan would probably enjoy it.

In the film, things were speeded up from the Traveller's perspective until objects that seemed motionless to us would move around to him. For example, he could see the seasons change in about 15 minutes, or the stars spin around in the sky like a top. A snail moved across the lawn like a racecar. For 1966, it was some far-out special effects.

It sounds like a cool effect - I'll have to see if my local video library has a copy. To my shame, I haven't even read the book ...

What about normal speed objects, though? How did he interact with those? Or didn't he?

The Traveller's rate of speed was variable; he could move through time slowly or quickly. At slower rates of speed, he could just make out people moving around like hummingbirds. At higher rates they moved so quickly they became invisible.

At any rate of speed, the Traveller was invisible to anyone outside the effect of the Time Machine.

Please log off your computer and read this book NOW. You owe it to yourself to see the source of a lot of SF plots.

Yes boss!

I love it when you get authoritative ... ;)

Well, I haven't read the book and I don't intend to. Not after watching Timelash.

Take my word, Emily; H.G. Wells was nothing like the simp in the show. "The Time Machine" is a dark, moody examination about the finiteness of existence, and humanity's struggle to go beyond this limit.

Wells had a tendency to beat a point to death, but he was also great at taking his Victorian characters and forcing them to see beyond their strait-jacketed preconceptions.

OK Mike, I'll take your word for it. In fact, I have such faith in your word that I don't feel the need to check up on it by actually reading The Time Machine.

You know, Emily, that there is literature outside the realm of Doctor Who novels?..... ;)

Well, of COURSE there is...look at what I'm reading at the moment - not a single mention of the Doctor. It's called 'Mean Streets' by Terrance Dicks...

Mike,

"Wells had a tendency to beat a point to death"

You're not kidding!

I have to say, I found the book an enjoyable read, but every so often switched from read mode to 'scan ahead to the next interesting bit' mode.

He bypasses the technical aspect quite well. How does the time machine work? Why, here is one white lever; here is another white lever. There! What further explanation is required?

I'm not being deliberately facetious. Well, okay, I am being deliberately facetious, but with no maliciousness intended. I really liked the way his future world came to life in his prose. I liked the description of the time travel itself.

Best thing about the book, though, was the way the Time Traveller's thought processes were explored - his initial assessment of the world he had come to and how it had evolved from his own, and the way those theories altered as he discovered more about his surroundings.

Not bad for 1895!

Haven't seen Timelash since I was a kid, if then. As I mentioned somewhere here before, Davison was a disappointment after my childhood hero of Doc4. It'll be interesting to see Doc5 and Doc6 on UK Gold for me - almost like first time viewing!

Eternity Weeps appears to be nothing bad an excuse to kill loads of people- Mortimore just can't bloomin' help himself.

The Doctor and Chris are totally wasted- it would have been a far more interesting experiment just to lose them altogether.

The appearance (and death) of Liz Shaw was utterly, utterly needless, and where the hell did that Silurian come from?

In the end, millions of people die, but I don't really care.

It's as though Mortimore had this premise, that he had to split Benny and Jason up, and kill lots of people at the same time. Sadly, this means that 80% of the book feels like padding.

Anyway, the real Benny and Jason relationship doesn't get going until the Benny NAs anyway so in retrospect it all seems a bit pointless really.

Anyway, onto some decent writing:

The Time Machine, wonderful book, agree entirely with you Sarah. BTW, have you read The Time Ships by Steven Baxter? It's a direct sequel to The Time Machine, and IMHO, is a fantastic book- the only things that alert you to the fact that it isn't Wells writing it are places where very modern SF ideas are used, but it's done so wonderfully that you amost don't notice. ObWho: apparently the Infinity Doctors has a lot in common with the Time Ships. I'm buggered if I know what though. and Stephen Baxter reviewed InfiniDocs for some magazine.

Nope, haven't read it but thanks for the tip, Ed!

I enjoyed this book, even though the contant Benny-Jason fighting threatened to derail the story. People are being shot, stabbed and melted, atom bombs are exploding, naked singularities are being unleashed on Earth, and those two are worried about their relationship!

Was there an explanation in a previous NA as to why a Silurian (excuse me, Earth Reptile) can be a part of a UNIT operation in 2003?

Why didn't someone pop a cap on the crazy Iranian right away, instead of allowing him to show up at such inconvenient moments?

Oh, and how exactly did Benny figure out how to operate the transmat on Earth?

And who are those people on the cover? They're wearing spacesuits instead of personal force fields.

Actually it never occurred to me to wonder about the cover...I was too busy being relieved that it wasn't as embarrassing to be seen with as most of the other NAs. I have a similar reaction to those pointless circles on the EDAs - some people may spend years scouring Vampire Science in vain for a sight of the US President, but me - I'm just grateful that I can openly read my copy on the bus (hoping that the words 'Doctor Who' will jog some happy memories in the minds of my fellow commuters) instead of sitting hunched over it so that no-one can spot the cover.

Why shouldn't Benny work out how to operate the transmat? She's intelligent and resourceful, she's probably picked up some of the Doctor's tricks over the years, and anyway she's probably been through tons of the things in her time.

I've never seen an explanation for the Silurian/Earth Reptile/Indigenous Terran. There'd surely be too much mistrust, not to mention genocide, between the races for them to be working in such harmony. But maybe - after their scientific advisor scarpered - UNIT got so desperate for a replacement that the next time they found a Silurian base, they gradually dehibernated a few of them, offered them jobs, and promised to revive the rest of their people...one day. No doubt they then broke the agreement, which would explain why there's no sign of Silurian/human cooperation a few decades later in Warriors of the Deep.

The thing about Benny is, she's already been through all this shot/melted/atom bomb/singularity business before, several dozen times. She knows the Doctor will make it all alright in the end (well, she wasn't to know that this was a Jim Mortimer book, was she?) so no wonder she was more worried about her relationship with the 'King of the gits' aka Jason Kane.

OK, I've haven't read this but maybe there's a fifth column among Silurians? Maybe the one in this book is an outcast and sought asylum? And only UNIT could give it the necessary protection?

If Benny, who's from the 25th century, could figure out the transmat, why couldn't Chris, who's from the 29th?

Chris--there could be any number of reasons for the presence of the Silurians. The problem is, none were given. And having a Silurian show up as an ally in the early 21st century should have been a big deal.

Fair call. It could have been explained in one simple sentence.

Actually Chris is from the 30th century and Benny is from the 26th. Well, in most books she is. Occasionally they decide she's from the 25th. You wouldn't think it would be too much trouble for Virgin to get this minor point consistent, would you?

Chris is young (only about 20 when he joined the Doctor), he's almost catatonic with grief for Roz (for some reason), he isn't as intelligent as Benny, and he doesn't have half her experience of helping the Doctor get out of tight corners. On the other hand, he DOES have an Adjudicator's training, which you'd think would include the operation of transmats.

I notice that Chris goes into shock whenever it's convenient to the plot. He manages to fly a 20th century copter with no lessons, which would be the equivalent of us immediately knowing how to harnass a horse and chariot and start riding.

Besides, didn't Chris do all his mourning in "Bad Therapy"? He didn't seem quite so dopey there.

That's why I said 'for some reason'...there really isn't any rational explanation for his grief. Maybe seeing Benny and/or Jason (I can't remember exactly who met who when, it's been a while since I read this) brought the memories of the funeral back, since they hadn't met since then. Well, Eternity Weeps says they hadn't met since the funeral, anyway. Though of course So Vile A Sin says that Benny and Jason weren't at the funeral, but Chris and the Doctor went to visit them afterwards. Tut tut tut.

I enjoyed it BUT didn't people realise this disaster was coming? I mean Benny specialises in 20th century earth culture, and while this is early 21st century, surely she would think "Hold on - isnt this the time during which a tenth of the world gets wiped out?!" It's a big disaster that she SHOULD remember.
Do any other books refer to the aftermath of this world? The "War" trilogy didnt seem to mention it.

Exactly! Warhead gave the impression that the critical condition of Earth was just the result of our indifference to the environment - not of an alien experiment. And seven years after the catastrophe - in Chelton Boniface during Benny and Jason's wedding - there was absolutely no mention of 'Oh gosh, we've recovered well since we got completely wiped out in 2003.'

So I think that the Eternity Weeps genocide was a break with the way history _should_ have gone - like the Doctor putting the Daleks back by a thousand years in Genesis. In which case the Doctor should at least have mentioned that this shouldn't be part of the Web of Time - and it might even have given him the right to go back in time and stop it happening at all.

At least when The Dying Days had a previously unmentioned Ice Warrior invasion in 1997, it was strongly implied that this was a break with established history - Benny was demanding to know why she'd never heard of it.

Mind you, Benny's credentials as a historian are as fake as her archaeology professorship. I mean, she specialises in Martian history as much as she does in 20th century Earth - yet she _didn't know_ the name or even the gender of the War Minister who betrayed Mars to the Daleks during a war in Benny's own lifetime (Beige Planet Mars).

Regarding some points mentioned about this novel:

*Chris going nearly insane with grief for Roz - I took this to have been set off by Liz dying in his arms and not at all a continuation of the events of 'Bad Therapy'.

*Bernice and Jason breaking up - Mortimore was told by Virgin that he *had* to do this as they intended Bernice to not be held down by marriage for her upcoming Doctor-less adventures. In many ways this book is a precursor to the Benny NAs, hence the small amount of Doctor time in it. Also, Mortimore was going through a divorce himself when he wrote this wasn't he? Or was that beforehand? Hence, I'd think his perspective on a marriage breaking up would be *very valid*.

*Lack of mention of 2003 catastrophe in other NAs - Um, did anyone notice that 'Eternity Weeps' was written AFTER the 'War' books? Therefore, taking into account the basic laws of time in the real world, it would be impossible for Cartmel to have known about the 'Eternity Weeps' tragedy before Mortimore had written it. Suggesting that Mortimore shouldn't have written it because no one else had mentioned it beforehand in the fictional Doctor Who history of Earth is a silly suggestion to say the least. This is exactly the sort of thing that continuity should be pushed aside for (even though it doesn't actually contradict anything). If Doctor Who authors were forced to make sure every event they wrote about neatly slotted into continuity with reference to other novels published before AND after their own, then, well, very shortly we'd have a very stale series of self-referring novels with no room for anything new or previously unmentioned, and I, for one, don't want that. I don't understand why people whine about continuity problems (in regards to *other* books) when a novel is otherwise good, can't we just enjoy it and forget about the fact that 'the Brigadier retired in 1976 in 'Mawdryn Undead', yet in 'Pyramids of Mars' the UNIT years clearly took place in 1980, blah blah blah...', who really cares if the stories are good?

*rant over* :) (exhausted but cheesy grin)

Never let it be said that anyone can out-rant me...

Yes, I agree that Chris's...ah...mental condition was likely to have been caused by Liz's unfortunate demise. I seem to remember Room With No Doors saying that he found Liz's death more devastating than Roz's. Which is absurd. Chris was _in love_ with Roz. And after years of helpless devotion, of fighting side-by-side, of being each other's sole source of sanity whilst zooming round all time and space with a mad alien and his barely-less-batty archaeological sidekick, Chis was finally getting somewhere with Roz when she gets splatted. Compare and contrast to Liz, who Chris barely knew. Yes, she died agonisingly, and yes, he could have prevented this by murdering her, but for heaven's sake! The fact that she spent a few hours dying meant that her Silurian lover telepathically managed to get the antidote to save _the entire human race_ (OK, the 9/10ths of it that Mortimer hadn't wiped out yet). I hardly think, therefore, that Chris's lack of guts in the euthanasia department is cause for catatonia-inducing guilt. Especially as this is the man whose failure to take up the Carnival Queen's kind offer of an irrational universe means he is responsible for every atrocity in human history, yet never gives his decision a second thought.

Yup, I know Eternity Weeps is written after the War books, and indeed after all the other books who so signally fail to mention that a rather large proportion of planet Earth is wiped out in 2003. So what? We're not talking about "real life" here, we're talking about our RIGHT as Who fans to have the Whoniverse hang together as one consistent whole. If you don't care about continuity, that's great, very sensible of you, but unfortunately I do. And there are enough holes in Who history without Mortimer taking a machine-gun to it.

If it comes to a choice, then OK, I don't really care if Dead Romance blows Who continuity to smithereens, it's worth it. Ditto for Dying Days, Genesis of the Daleks, etc. But I would so much prefer to avoid such contradictions if possible. Did Mortimer _have_ to make the terraforming quite so virulent? Surely a good writer could give us the emotional impact using rather fewer casualties. Or couldn't he come up with a Dying Days-style 'This shouldn't be happening' line or two, just to show that established history is being changed and ANYTHING can happen?

As Lawrence Miles once said, albeit slightly paraphrased here, what people who criticise Mortimer's huge body coutns don't realise is that he is writing in a historical context.
We don't remember massacres because of a few emotionally heart-tugging deaths but because of the sheer number of people killed.
There are billions of people on Earth, and a near infinite amount more in the rest of the universe, and as Mortimer prefers to write about the truly BIG events, it only makes sense that his body counts be higher than most.

As for continuity, I do care for it to an extent, but I don't think it should stop someone from writing about something simply because it hasn't been mentioned before. If the DW universe was this rigid then it would mean we could never add anything unless there was a suitably large radius of time (and/or space) around the story, and as time goes by (here, in the real world, that is) we would be left with no where to do anything new in DW because of... CONTINUITY!!! Just because Agent Yellow was never mentioned before is a poor excuse to negate Eternity Weeps. Personally I'm glad Mortimer doesn't let the overzealous frame of continuity prevent him from adding interesting events and stories to the Who mythos, as if all the Who writers were only allowed to *add to* rather than *create* continuity it would s u c k.

Interesting. I think after a certain number of deaths, the sheer scale makes them meaningless - humans weren't designed to cope with such massive concepts. Did it matter to you when historians suggested that the death-toll from the Great Leap Forward was probably more in the region of 43 million than 30 million? Did you sob your eyes out thinking of each of those extra 13 million lives ending in agony? (OK, I did, but I get the strong impression that I'm just weird.) A few pictures of big-eyed starving babies in Africa generally have more emotional impact - and generate more practical assistance - than any number of statistics about X million on the brink of starvation in Ethiopia, X million in Sudan, etc etc. A good writer should be able to conjure up the same feelings as Eternity Weeps generated, only with a smaller bodycount (just to preserve the Web of Time, not because I object to a tenth of Earth's population being wiped out per se).

Mortimer himself obviously doesn't believe that the emotional impact is directly proportional to the numbers of deaths involved, or he wouldn't have dragged in poor old Liz Shaw in an attempt to bring the horror home to us. (Though Beltempest certainly gave the impression he felt that way.)

You know I'm not saying that continuity shouldn't be created. I just don't think it should be contradicted unless absolutely necessary. I couldn't care less if _Agent Yellow_ hasn't been mentioned before - I'm just worried that a catastrophe of that magnitude in 2003 implicitly contradicts all the Doctor Who stories set around that period.

And if people try to stick to continuity, how can you say there's nowhere left to go, nothing to do? There's whole universes out there! In fact, anything that encourages writers to get away from Earth's overcrowded history for a while would probably be a good thing.

You have to admit that Lawrence Miles has managed to do some pretty spectacular stuff whilst being very heavily continuity-laden. And, while I can admire Mortimer's guts in simply not giving a •••• about Who continuity (I'd prefer that to Gary Russell's subservient attitude anyday) if Mortimer could have brought himself to consider people's reactions for just one minute, he wouldn't have ended up with the ignominious cancellation of 'Campaign'.

Sure.
I still find Mortimor's huge historical tragedies more impacting that, say, Kate Orman torturing someone to death in one of her books.
Anyway, two questions:
What's the 'Great Leap Forward'?
And yeah, how come 'Campaign' *did* end up getting cancelled after being finished?

I suppose it all comes back to good writing again. The Doctor's mental disintegration in Seeing I had a massive impact on me. So did the genocide in Eternity Weeps. On the other hand, I found it difficult to care about the tens of billions of potential victims in Beltempest, mainly because Mortimer himself obviously couldn't care less (to the extent that he didn't bother explaining what happened to them). And, given that the Doctor is invariably tortured to within an inch of his life in every single Kate Orman book, these days it tends to elicit a 'oh god here we go again' reaction from me rather than howls of anguish.

The Great Leap Forward (1959-61) was one of those brilliant ideas by the Doctor's old friend Mao. He wanted China to catch up with the West in a few years, and decided that the best way to achieve this was for everyone to start metal-making industries in their back yards. (_Literally_ everyone in China.) So they all had to stop growing rice and start melting down metal. It obviously never occurred to Mao - and, this being a dictatorship, no-one had the guts to point it out to him - that if people stop growing food they are going to starve to death. So they did. 43 million of them. Or 30 million. Or maybe only 20 million. It's a bit difficult to tell.

‘Campaign’ was commissioned on the understanding that it would be a historical adventure – First Doc, Ian, Barbara and Susan meet Alexander the Great or something. When the manuscript arrived, the hapless editor discovered that Jim Mortimer had written each chapter from a different - but always totally non-canonical - perspective. I.e. one chapter had the characters from those ghastly Cushing movies, one starred the Ian from Whittacker’s ‘Dr Who in an Exciting Adventure with the Daleks’, one had the comic strip Doctor Who and his grandchildren Gillian and John, etc. So they refused to print it, and there was no PDA for that month.

What?!?
Outstanding! I'm flabbergasted.
hahahahahha

(by the way, so you don't think I'm a sadistic madman, that's in reference to 'Campaign' and *not* the tragic 'Great Leap Forward')

Mort is the french word for death so any book with Mortimore on it does exactly what it says on the tin. And it does big concepts. And this book, like 'Parasite', makes them very, very dull. Tediously so.

Like most of his books there's a few set pieces around which the bare threads of a story are draped. The problem is that the bits which are meant to be the highlights are just plonked into the narrative. There's generally no build up to them. Indeed, after the first few chapters the whole pacing of the book is wrong. It hits a frantic speed when on the mountains (which is the best bit) but then peters out when it shifts to the moon. The chapter with Jason on acid-world brings things to a grinding halt as he does his worst Terrance Dicks 'tell not show' impression. It can't recover from a terminal state after that.

How long are Benny and Jason meant to have been married when this takes place? There are a couple of mentions of them being on their honeymoon but that's now been eight books in length (although there is the issue of relative time). Overall the breakup doesn't appear plausible based on the massive personality changes of the characters from prior books to this one. It could have easily done so with a few small comments sprinkled throughout the book but, like too many of Mortimore's books, the subtle touches that add interest are ignored in favour of the grandiose yet ultimately dull.

Once you read "Happy Endings", you'll wonder why B&J got married in the first place. Things are not improved by "Return of the Living Dad", where Jason does the best insecure-teenager-in-love impression ever. By the time of this book, if Benny were living in the 20th century, she'd have obtained a restraining order against the little freak.

I disagree with that, Mike, because the collapse of the marriage in this book is simply unbelievable, primarily because there appears so little elapsed time between the wedding and the split and no pointers towards what ultimately happens. That a relationship falls apart isn't surprising, it's the sudden switch between books that makes it so. A better writer than Jim Mortimore would have made it a bit more believable with the use of a few subtle asides to chart a path towards the current situation. As it is you don't get an impression that you've missed out on certain events; merely that they were never there in the first place because the author couldn't be bothered. It's an appallingly handled piece of writing and the NA series thankfully produced far better for the most part.

Within the book itself, I agree with you, Graham. We're just presented this collapsing relationship, with no rela explanation of how it got there. Within the NAs, though, the marriage was troubled from day one (IMHO). Jason is immature, anti-social, needy, etc, etc, while Benny (subconsciously) measures everyone against her memories of her dad and the Doctor. They don't need a time ring, they need a marriage counselor.

Graham, how can you compare this to Parasite! There's some really good stuff in here. And even if there wasn't, it STILL wouldn't be comparable to Parasite. I honestly can't think of a book boring enough to be deserving of such an accusation.

I heard that Eternity Weeps is such a mess because Virgin didn't like the original plot so made Mortimer comprehensively rewrite it, and then relented at the last minute so he rewrote it all again in a terrible hurry.

/i{if Benny were living in the 20th century, she'd have obtained a restraining order against the little freak} Hey, wait a minute! It's not Jason's fault he's a bit screwed up (in every possible sense of the word). So would you be with a father like that, let alone all the prostituting-yourself-to-aliens stuff. Actually HE ought to be applying for the restraining order, cos Benny's always the one hitting him. Not vice-versa.

I didn't say it was Jason's fault, I'm just saying that Benny should have been intelligent enough to avoid this grab-bag of psychoses.

Em, nothing could be as tedious as 'Parasite' (well, not until the BBC range started). The problem is that the big concepts - massive infection on Earth and black holes destroying ancient systems - are presented in such a pedestrian manner. It's as if Mortimore realises he doesn't possess the skills to write those type of things but blunders on regardless. The bit with Jason on the old world had me checking that it wasn't a Terrance Dicks Target book as it dived headlong into the simplistic 'tell don't show' style which so characterised his earlier work.

As I mentioned earlier the bit on the mountains was good but the depiction of the old world, the infection and Benny & Jason falling apart were extremely poor. Since they were the three central features of the book it was not a good thing to occur.

Ha! So Liz did NOT dissolve into a pool of acid back in '03. She is, in fact, living on a Moonbase circa 2010 (SJA: Death of the Doctor).

Well, I suppose at least the loser got to travel in space AT LAST.

So why didn't the Cthalctose NOTICE the giant-chicken-embryo when they were stuffing the Moon full of alien terraforming tech?

I really don't care if the NAs are contradicted. A lot of the NAs universe is pretty horrible - many female Who fen have pointed out that the Looms were used by Nineties fanboys to proclaim in a very hateful way that the Doctor had been born without the touch of a woman's body

I really don't care if the NAs are contradicted.

Fair enough. I can't say I exactly CARE either, but I'm certainly gonna carry on picking those nits...

A lot of the NAs universe is pretty horrible -

Well, you can't blame writers if they got a bit carried away torturing the Doctor, killing a few Companions and wiping out humanity every now and then - after all HE LEFT US MUM HE LEFT US MUM.

many female Who fen have pointed out that the Looms were used by Nineties fanboys to proclaim in a very hateful way that the Doctor had been born without the touch of a woman's body

The Looms were obviously just created so Time Lords wouldn't have sex. Which is fine by me. And by the entirety of Old Who. Give or take that bizarre Andred/Leela thing.

I hope you're right.
Liz Barr, my generation's Kate Orman, (lizbee.dreamwidth.org | twitter.com/_lizbarr | no-award.net), was theone who pointed out the misogyny in fanboy's reactions to the Looms.

The Looms were obviously just created so Time Lords wouldn't have sex.

No, the looms were created as part of the so-called Cartmel Masterplan* as part of the effort to create a new backstory - or rather non-backstory - for the Dcotor. The Time Lords are still capable of sex, just not reproducing sexually.

I don't recall any misogyny in the fan reaction to the looms at all. The most vocal responses at the time were broadly negative, either they *had* made the Doctor asexual or they were just messing around with Doctor Who tradition for its own sake.

(* Though the idea in this case seems to have come from Marc Platt, who may have had Blake in mind - a connection that the Faction Paradox books make explicit - or possibly, given the point of all this, the hardly asexual utopia of Arthur C. Clarke's 'The City and the Stars'.)

No, the looms were created as part of the so-called Cartmel Masterplan* as part of the effort to create a new backstory - or rather non-backstory - for the Dcotor. The Time Lords are still capable of sex, just not reproducing sexually.

Yeah, but the ultimate-expression of the Cartmel Masterplan - Lungbarrow - kindly made it clear that the rest of the Time Lords had no idea about sex.

Though the idea in this case seems to have come from Marc Platt, who may have had Blake in mind - a connection that the Faction Paradox books make explicit

Ooh! What did Blake say and what did the Faction say about Blake?

or possibly, given the point of all this, the hardly asexual utopia of Arthur C. Clarke's 'The City and the Stars'.

OK, you might as well tell me what happens THERE too.

Ooh! What did Blake say and what did the Faction say about Blake?

Blake's Catherion - the city where people are grown on giant silver looms - is referenced by House Catherion in The Book of the War.

OK, you might as well tell me what happens THERE too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_and_the_Stars

(Note the bit about "everybody in Diaspar has an instinctive insular conservatism" that prevents everyone but the hero from wanting to leave the city. The idea behind the looms is that it explains why the Time Lords are such an insular and patriarchal bunch... and why the Doctor is such a free spirit by comparison - the difference is that Platt was bodging an explanation together, while it was Clarke's conception from the start.)

Note the bit about "everybody in Diaspar has an instinctive insular conservatism" that prevents everyone but the hero from wanting to leave the city. The idea behind the looms is that it explains why the Time Lords are such an insular and patriarchal bunch... and why the Doctor is such a free spirit by comparison

Right. Cos none of the Time Lords ever want to leave the City, except Our Hero.

(Plus the Master, the Meddling Monk, Drax, the Corsair, Romana, Susan, the War Chief, the Rani, the Shobogans, Professor Chronotis, I M Foreman, Azmael, Ruath, Millennia, Rallon and Larna but hey, who's counting...)

Erm, Romana was made to go, we have no idea what Shobogans actually are but they're obviously around the Capitol enough to indulge in the odd bit of vandalism, and I hope that you just made Rallon up to test me. (He sounds worryingly Gary Russell to me.)

Erm, Romana was made to go

Really? She wasn't THREATENED WITH DEATH by the White Guardian like the Doctor was, she was (presumably) politely asked by someone she thought was her President to embark on some insanely dangerous quest across time and space, she seemed perfectly happy to do so, and was obviously DYING to meet the Doctor (well, she admitted that before encountering him she was 'actually prepared to be impressed' which by Romana I standards is practically a marriage proposal). And when summoned home she was heartbroken. And actually exiled herself to another universe to escape this fate.

we have no idea what Shobogans actually are

They SAY they're Time Lords, why do you doubt them?

but they're obviously around the Capitol enough to indulge in the odd bit of vandalism,

Admittedly their slight fixation with nipping back to the Capitol to shoot out the occasional light-fitting is...a little odd.

and I hope that you just made Rallon up to test me. (He sounds worryingly Gary Russell to me.)

He is indeed one of Gary Russell's marvellous creations. You remember that dear old Deca from Divided Loyalties...?

Thanks for reminding me - all those years of therapy ruined!

And the Shobogans are only ever mentioned in 'The Deadly Assassin' and its never explained who they are or why they indulge in petty vandalism. The idea that they're the hippies from 'The Invasion of Time' is a fan invention.

Oh!

Well, when a fan invention becomes more powerful than the truth, I say, we CANONISE it!

Like the way you always believe a Hulke novelisation rather than what you actually saw on-screen. (OF COURSE the Doctor would never have left those political prisoners to rot on the giant-magic-dragon-chicken-foetus-shell! NEVER NEVER NEVER!)

But just to be on the safe side, replace 'Shobogans' with 'Blanket-wearing Time Lord drop-outs' in the list above.

the hippies from 'The Invasion of Time' were so awful, they might have been improved had they been wearing nappies like the cannibals from 'Varos'.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. Cos I really think there is NOTHING in Who, or indeed in life, that can be improved by the sight of adults wearing nappies...

There's nothing particularly awful about the hippies from 'The Invasion of Time'. They're just dull and unmemorable.

Well at least I remember their blankets...

Bookwyrm:

Benny 'sees a hexagonal master control system on the moon, which turns out to be an exact replica of the TARDIS console etched in metal, but can't quite place why it looks familiar' - *wince*.

'The entire plot hinges around Noah's Ark and, specifically, the Biblical Flood being an actual historical event. Unfortunately, in Timewyrm: Genesys it was a metaphor for Utnapishti's flight from another planet. Maybe Mortimore had forgotten about Timewyrm: Genesys. We can't think why.' - Great way of doing your nitpickerly duty whilst absolving the writer...

'Benny the writer-proof character who you can't possibly get wrong. He gets her wrong' - well, to be fair, he WAS ordered to make her divorce for no readily-apparent reason. That probably tends to do weird things to a character.

Death by paintbrush stabbed in eye.
Eeugh.
Cool, but eeugh.

Have you read Just War? Personally, I'd rather have my eye splatted by a paintbrush than gouged out by Roz's thumb...but maybe that's just me.

You know what's REALLY eeugh-y?

SARAH JANE SMITH stabbing someone through the eyeball with a pen until their head explodes in a fireball. (System Shock)

And then keeping the pen.