So, has anybody else logged on and downloaded 'Death Comes to Time'? Whadya tink?

Just listened to it.

Wow, some big names in this one. The General was way over the top, which I liked.

At first I thought the writer was basically fitting the plot of Star Wars ep 1 to Dr Who. Some rather amazing similarities. Then things got better. Music was pretty good, except for the theme music. I like Big Finish's idea of using the classic Pertwee/T.Baker theme. Guess I am old fashioned.

On the whole, I quite liked it. I am still confused about what's going on, which is normal for first episodes. Surprised the Beeb didn't pick this up and finish the story.

Well, I haven't heard it because neither my computer at home OR at work is capable of producing noises. Cretins! Still, I'll be at mum's for the weekend and her computer is not orally challenged.

Needless to say, this minor set-back has not prevented me from downloading the thing, just to show the BBC how popular it is. And I voted as well, not that I think the results of the poll will have a blinding-light-on-the-road-to-Damascus effect on the BBC.

Luiner, I regret that Big Finish have recently tried to create their own version of the theme music, and needless to say it doesn't work very well.

By the way...as we're talking of thrilling internet initiatives...Sylvester McCoy will be honouring the Web with his prescence tomorrow (Wednesday) at midday GMT:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point/forum/newsid_1437000/1437865.stm

Send him your questions! Just don't expect the bloody BBC to use them. They completely ignored my contribution to their 'tribute to Birendra' site even though I'd carefully avoided phrases like 'filthy murderer of innocent democracy demonstrators.'

Just listened to Death Comes To Time - was OK but I got bit bored in parts, especially those with Ace. The General was good but it seems to be all over the place at this point.

I understand now that the Beeb has decided to go ahead and produce the remaining episodes of Death Comes to Time. Apparently, they were overwhelmed by how popular the pilot was on the web. Not surprisingly, since I had a lot of server problems when I listened to it. Quite a few were listening to it the same time I was, I would guess.

My only hope is that this will knock some sense into the them and they decide to produce a new TV series.

Does anybody know if the BBC is going to put the rest on the net, or on radio?

Well, I found it pretty disappointing. The genocide of millions of people left me unmoved. The baddies were caricatures. The opposition were pathetic and unpleasant enough to make me indifferent to their fate. And I found the creation of a new Companion for the Doctor to be pure cheek. Even aside from the fact that any Doctor, let alone Mr Master Manipulator Ka Faraq Ghatri Chessplayer Himself, would NOT be accompanied by some git who only existed to be told 'punch him, my boy.' (Especially when he's already got Ace to do that sort of thing.)

What REALLY worries me are the rumours that whoever's responsible for this...thing...is going to be behind a new proper, i.e. TV, series of Who. The BBC really DO hate the programme, don't they? Why else would they entrust this sacred task (not that I believe it'll happen of course, I'm not THAT gullible any more) to someone who couldn't even put one radio story together properly?

I'm surprised no one has jumped to post about the news over at Outpost Gallifrey--there's going to be a new Doctor. Okay, so it's another webcast animation, but the early info is that it's full animation, and will be released on DVD AND that it's part of an ongoing series. Richard E. Grant will be the voice of the 9th Doctor. The BBC has decided to avoid the continuity problem by starting these stories sometime after the 8th Doctor regenerates into the 9th Doctor. And there may be books, too.

So what does it all mean? Darned if I know. Naturally, I'm pleased there's a new series, and as a fan of animation and Who, I've always thought an animated series would be a natural. But I'd like to see it first before I pass judgement.

The continuity debate is going to be fierce. Since this is a BBC production, by definition that makes it canon. I suppose somewhere down the line, they'll backtrack and fill in the backstory on regeneration. Maybe they'll decide to wind down the EDA line, kill the 8th Doctor, and do it that way (that's what I'd do).

Go check out the story at http://www.gallifreyone.com/ and let me know what you think.

Bah, humbug is what I think. Haven't you HEARD BBCi's last two webcasts? Real Time was merely a pitiful run-around with similar (lack of) quality to Big Finish's usual stuff, but Death Comes to Time was an abomination, and a bloody long one too. If the BBC thinks some gimmicky 'new Doctor' nonsense is going to atone for the lack of PROPER, NEW Who on television, we must teach them the error of their ways.

Sadly, I don't have the bandwidth to handle a webcast, so I haven't seen anything. I thought they did the new version of "Shada" in that fashion, too.

Does "full animation" mean "Disney feature film quality animation"? That would be a step up, I suppose, from slide shows and audio-only.

I only know Richard E. Grant from Curse of the Fatal Death and L.A. Story. He did fine in both, from what I remember. It's just a shame Paul McGann never got to do more with the role. Still, Grant is high-profile, and the BBC seems to be playing this up. Maybe, if the webcast does well, that will be a step toward real, televised Who again. We can only hope.

Ugg! You mean I've got to pretend to LIKE the thing?

I can accept many things.

I can accept the Doctor as a cranky old man.

I can accept him as a "cosmic hoboe."

I can accept him as "James Bondish."

I can accept Tom Baker's great (but sometime overdone) slapstick.

I can accept him as a somwhat wimpy huffing and puffing cricket player

I can accept a recently regenerated mentally ill Doctor mistaking his companion for an evil being and trying to strangle her.

I can accept him as an absent minded buffoon, and I can even understand him kissing someone as he happily regains his memory.

I cannot, however accept a new Doctor being introduced as a cartoon and without a regeneration scene of any kind.

All the other Doctors were portrayed by competent live actors who, although you may disagree with the direction they may have taken the series in, cared about the character and the show. A cartoon Doctor just doesn't do it for me. I give it a "thumbs down."

....and this folks, is why there will never be a new series of Who- because fans poo poo every attempt to bring it back.
Richard E. Grant is a great actor, I suggest you all check out imdb and rent a couple of his films before saying how bad he is.
Yes, I'll admit that I too would like a new series, but it won't happen. Look what happened when the TV movie came out. What did fans do? They whinged and nitpicked and complained. No wonder Fox chose not to make any more! It's not Fox's fault that Paul McGann never got to do more in the role (and quite frankly he would have been brilliant, yes Emily, even better than Mr. T. Baker) it was all the whinging fans.
Give Richard, and the webcast, a chance I say!

Speaking for myself (all I have a right to do after all), I have never poo-pooed any bona-fide attempt to bring the series back. I thought the Fox movie, while it had some easily explained away problems was ok, and Paul McGann did a great job. I even like what I saw of the "Shada" webcast, although I don't consider it cannon. In my book, it was just a cute "web play."

I really think that if they're going to introduce a new Doctor, even without a regeneration, it should be done as a live-action episode or TV movie. Never mind the baby step. As Emily said, it should be done PROPERLY.

Who's to say what is "proper" and what isn't? Look at this way--an animated series means an unlimited special effects budget. No more rubber monsters. No more cheesy visual effects. The only limit will be the animators' skills.

I never cared about the rubber monsters or cheesy visual effects. In fact, for me they were part of the series' charm.

What I liked was the good stories and the great perfomances by all 8 of the series lead actors. From what I've seen of Richard E. Grant, he is a good actor and would make a good Doctor. So let's SEE him perform, not just voice a cartoon.

I suppose if there is a lot of interest in the ninth doctor, what's to stop Fox or the Beeb from making a one-off telemovie where he does regenerate? The problem with doing something like this is that it would require hiring McGann for the opening scenes. So rather than go to the expense of hiring him they instead "test the waters" with a new doctor post regeneration. They are both young-ish actors, there is plenty of time (barring accidents) for the regeneration to occur. My point is, just let's see where this goes, don't just dismiss it before a cell has been animated or a voice recorded.

/soap box mode/

Chris, you (like Emily) seem to be laboring under the impressiion that animation is some sort of second-rate art, fit only for kids. I don't really have the time or energy to go into it, but you're dead, dead wrong.

Also, please keep in mind that voice acting is just as challenging as conventional acting. In some ways, it's a bigger challenge, since the performer has to rely solely on his voice to put forward emotion.

Good stories and great performances are not the sole provenance of TV and film. I thought a lot more about what is "proper", and all I could come up with is that "proper" is what ever serves the story. If that means the medium used is a cartoon, an opera, a comic book, a live performance, a rock opera, or even just a book, then so be it.

\off the soap box\

I know voice acting is challenging. I do it for a living (I work in radio.). I also know animation is a very highly skilled art done by talented professionals.


I just feel that something this important to the show ought to be done as a regular broadcast live action episode. I would be just as disspointed if they decided to introduce a new Doctor in a book or comic strip.

I think no one has seen my post in the 'good places to see people who've been in doctor who' thread.

I think you guys should wait till I've had a shot before you start bagging it out.

Totally agree Richard!!! Put that Emily person in her place!!!

And what place would that be?

I never said for a moment this Richard E Grant person wouldn't make a great Doctor. He was perfectly allowable in Curse of the Fatal Death, and utterly wonderful (though obviously not as wonderful as his co-star) in Withnail and I. Which is one of the reasons - as Chris said - I want him to be the bloody DOCTOR, not the bloody Doctor's voice, with some bad picture moving round pretending to be our Doc when we can all TELL it's only a bad picture. My suspension of disbelief goes only so far. (Admittedly it might not be a bad picture, but let's face it, all the other pictures on BBCi for books and webcasts have been.)

I don't have a problem with missing out a regeneration scene - very sensible, I wish to god they'd done that in the telemovie, instead of having every non-fan reach for the 'off' button during the first two minutes because they didn't understand the embarrassing McGann narration while McCoy sat around.

'JUST a book', Mike?! Books are sacred, the supreme achievement of the human race! Still, Doctor Who is basically about the TV stories, as far as I'm concerned. It has managed to adapt to and succeed in mediums that I wouldn't have thought suited for it; maybe this webcast animation will succeed too, it's not beyond the realms of possibility despite Death Comes to Time and Real Time and Shada (I haven't heard the latter yet, but I HAVE heard enough from misfortunates who've listened to realise that Gary Russell and Douglas Adams don't mix terribly well). It's just that they're trying to sell us this thing as the official BBC 40th anniversary celebration!!! (Along with a forty quid coffee table book, or something.) For god's sake - if we're not celebrating an animated corpse, GIVE US SOME ******* WHO ON TELEVISION!!!

Okay, after my original enthusiasm, I'm slightly embarrased to have back off a bit. Why? Because Cosgrove/Hall is doing the animation. Now, don't get me wrong; I have nothing against C/H (I'm a huge Dangermouse fan). I just don't think that they are suited for this type of work.

Now, if they'd hired Warner Bros' animation, that would be something entirely different.....

That reminds me. Years ago I went to a convention in Long Island. Sylvester McCoy was the guest and he said there was talk about doing an animated series and Hanna/Barbera (of Yogi Bear/Quickdraw McGraw/Huckleberry Hound fame) was supposedly going to do the animation. He said, "We'll all be walking like this...." and stifly walked across the front of the room like a badly animated cartoon. Thank God that never happened.

Get Matt Groening to do it- his Tom Baker caricature is brilliant!!!

Luckily, H/B animation (and TV animation in general) has improved greatly in the past few years. I think the work done on the WB action toons (Superman, Batman/Batman Beyond, Justice League, etc.) is exceptional. And the recent spate of HB toons on Cartoon Network (Samurai Jack, for example), actually use the limited animation as an advantage. Admittedly, they're following the lead of anime, but without being quite so overly stylized.

That's true, Mike. I especially enjoy "Justice League" and I wouldn't mind seeing an animated series done in that style, but I would still prefer the new Doctor to be introduced in a live action episode. That way there would be no question in fans' minds as to his authenticity.

I was just thinking that a good thing about a well produced animated series is that (with good sound-alikes) early Doctors could make an appearance. Or survivng Doctors who now look so physically different (like both Bakers) than they did when they were in the series. It would, of course, have to be extremely well-written so it wouldn't come off as a gimmick.

That's a good point. Heck, with some careful digital manipulation, they could just use the original Doctor's voices.

Hmmm, Manga style Dr.Who Vs CGI-animated Dr.Who ?
It depends on the animation studio involved, onto which is the better.
For the Manga style Dr.Who, I'd argue for Sochiro Watanabe' studio (Cowboy Bebop + several Animatrix episodes),for CGI animation Square Studios (Final Fantasy:The Spirits Within & The Final Flight of The Osiris)
As for Cosgrove Hall, their 2 adaptations of Discworld were all right, certainly far better than I Expected !

Having just seen 'Spirited Away' and less recently 'Ghost in the Shell', I have zero problems with Dr Who in animation. If it's done in this quality it would be fantastic.

However, if it's done like most Hanna Barbara and the Star Trek Cartoon series, I dunno. The story would have to be very good.

An animated Who series would suffer from the same fan angst about canon as the Star Trek animated series has since 1973. You would ALWAYS encounter people that would never, ever accept it as canon, even if some of the stories were considered good. The canon debate regarding the novels would be a casual discussion by comparison of the arguements in store for a Who animated series. Even today some fans want the Trek animated series acknowledged in books, but it's virtually ignored.
That said, I'm willing to give it a try, but I doubt I'd consider it canon. I, too, like the Batman animated series, and Justice League, but the people are drawn as charactures, so a similarly rendered Ice Warrior of Doctor would be nearly impossible to take seriously.
I would watch it only as a source of entertainment.
Why an institution like Doctor Who isn't a major motion picture in theatres with a budget of $100,000,000 but silliness like Charlie's Angels 2 or The Addams Family are produced is beyond me. Just got the wrong people in charge of the BBC, I guess.

Charlies Angels 2 was awesome.

Well, I just watched Episode One of this animated whatsit (and I use the term "animated" loosely). Still, I had the lowband version so perhaps that's it.

It didn't really work for me, mostly because they've managed to make the Doctor look like death warmed over. Perhaps this Grant guy actually looks like that (poor fellow), but it's not so great for our hero (makes him look more like Sherlock Holmes than anything).

The story itself was actually kind of interesting. I almost didn't download any more after Part One, but after a while the storyline started to hook me. I'm guessing that black girl will be the new companion. That would work.

So far, I'm reserving judgement. Except for the Doc visuals -- they're awful.

Just listened to the first ep of "The Scream Of The Shalka". I'm not mad on the Doctor looking like a vampire (and I hope that Richard relaxes a little more- he speaks his dialogue like he's constipated)

Cabbage time- At one point he comments "There's no Pachelbel on this jukebox!". This is a reference to the composer Johann Pachelbel who wrote THAT canon you hear all the time on adverts.
Quite what a composer would be doing on a jukebox is another question entirely....

Well, I've so far managed to avoid watching/listening to the thing - except for a brief advert on BBCi, in which I couldn't help but notice that some person who presumably has the impertinence to regard herself as the Companion...has no nose. (Maybe her nose got ripped off in episode one or something, but I strongly suspect she always had a dot in place of a nose. I mean, how difficult is it to draw a nose?!)

Huh. You don't want a Doctor who looks like a vampire - you wait till Bill Nighy is the Doc...

If the companion has no nose, how does she smell...?

Terrible! (waves hand in front of nose, then pinches it with two fingers)

(An oldie but a goodie!)

Been watching/listening to The Scream of The Shalka - loved the cliffhanger to Episode Four... sent shivers down my spine.

Re:Scream of the Shalka
So Mike will now have to add a 9th Doctor Adventure Subsection, to the "Who In Print" Section.
The reason for this being, the Novelisation of "Scream..." is due out in Feb'04, according to the BBC Book release schedule.

Nonsense! Scream is a novelisation, and - as I might just have mentioned a few thousand times - NOVELISATIONS AREN'T CANON! And we already have a section to discuss such nonsenses (though admittedly it's labelled Target novelisations). And anyway, that cartoon abomination is no true Doctor!

Unlike, say, Colin Baker.

No comment. (I'm trying really hard to give up my slagging-off-Colin-Baker ways.)

As for the novelisations aren't canon argument, what about The Ghosts of N-Space? That came out as a Missing Adventure before the radio play was broadcast.

And doesn't the BBC consider The Nightmare Fair, The Ultimate Evil and Mission to Magnus (the missing Season 23 and all novelised) as canon?

I'm wondering - if there had been no announcement of a new series, would everyone have considered the Richard E. Grant Doctor as the ninth, as that would have been the only thing to latch onto?

I might have, if they'd continued to create additional REG 9th Doctor stories. As a one-off, though, I'd have to file him under in the same category as the Peter Cushing Doctor; i.e., some sort of alternate universe/Hypertime Doctor.

Well, I finally watched the rest of the thing tonight. It was... different. Why is the Master an android? Was that another book I didn't read? And how come none of the characters open their eyes all the way? Makes them look a bit sleepy. And are we really supposed to believe a few dozen towns's worth of people screaming is going to wreck the atmosphere? Better disband most of the world's governing bodies then.

I really don't think I'm going to go for this Grant guy as the new Doctor, especially if he looks like that! The girl was okay though. She had an interesting line towards the end:

Doctor: Do you trust me?
Alison: How needy are you? Yes!

The Doctor does seem to spend a lot of time putting his companions into situations he has to get them out of again. Showing off?

I'm a wondering if it's now worth putting up a separate "Webcasts" section? We've now had Death Comes To Time, Real Time, Shada and The Scream of the Shalka and I suspect there might be more in the future (albeit probably only one a year)

I don't know if they'll bother, given that there will be proper, real, genuine, ALIVE Who ON OUR TELEVISIONS in the not-too-distant future. Who'll give a toss about Webcasts then?

[Gives Odo annoyed snort sound]Uh-huh- suuuuuuure there will be.

They're not stopping the books or the Big Finish adventures, so why stop the webcasts?

Books and Big Finish make money, webcasts do not (well, not much money anyway).

Hmm, point taken, but haven't the webcasts been released on CD or, in the case of Shalka, novelised?

Aren't the webcasts like the TV show - i.e. you don't have to pay to watch either?

Well, it doesn't look like many others here felt like bothering with "Scream of the Shalka," but I finally got around to watching it. I have to say that I did enjoy it more than the animation of "Shada."

I don't know how I feel about this 9th Doctor. Rather than introducing him in a regeneration episode, "Scream" decided to put him somewhere in the middle of his 9th life. This caused some confusion on my part as to why he was acting in certain ways. I noticed some of the 7th Doctor's world-weariness (universe-weariness?) in this 9th Doctor, which was nice. I like REG as an actor and was looking forward to seeing him (or rather hearing him) as a non-spoof Doctor. As Rodney pointed out, his delivery was strangely stiff. I never really quite got used to that. As for the character design--I really liked the outfit. The animators seemed to have picked up on REG's "Sherlock in space" statement. The character looked enough like REG, but seemed to emphasize his alien qualities maybe more than we're used to.

So how 'bout that Theme remix, eh? I have to admit I kind of liked it! If that's the "hip" new direction the series is supposed to take, I think it's tongue-in-cheek enough to work. I saw that they kept the McGann-era Console Room, which I'm still ambivalent about. The animation quality on "Scream" was a lot better than that for "Shada," I thought--probably because they had more time and money? Not sure.

The writing wasn't bad. There were several lines I liked a lot, but the only one I wrote down was when the Doctor was falling through the black hole: "This is the Doctor. I'm terribly sorry, but I'm about to die ..." (Speaking of which ... the Doctor has a cell phone? What??!) I thought the story was maybe not terribly original, but I liked it. It kept me interested. Boy, didn't Prime, leader of the Shalka, sound rather like the Great One in Planet of the Spiders?

I liked the Doctor's "new" companion, Alison, fairly well. I think I could enjoy her in more adventures, though she reminded me a little of Ace. I hope the series is at the point now that it can include companions of color as well as different ages when we actually get some episodes in 2005. Of the other characters, I liked Greaves ("the cheeky soldier") the best. Some comic potential there in the future, I think.

The one thing I really couldn't stomach too well was the reincarnation of the Master. I may have missed some of the explanation there, because I was trying to watch the webcast and do other stuff at the same time. But apparently the Doctor has turned the "remains" of the Master into a robot that serves the Doctor. I had a hard time believing that the Doctor would do this, especially considering what happened before (telemovie) when he had the Master's remains in the TARDIS. There were some other nits I had, but I'll need to watch the thing again to remember.

Quite what a composer [Pachelbel] would be doing on a jukebox is another question entirely....
I think that was part of the joke.

Still haven't listened to the thing, but....yeah, dead-slave-robot-Master sounds an incredibly s t u p i d idea.

The Sixth Doctor had a mobile phone in Millennial Rites - Mel made him do it. Typical.

You know Emily, I've been wanting to comment for awhile that I like the way you write "s t u p i d" to escape the censorware; it gives a lot more disdain to whatever you're saying. J

Hey, thanks. That cheers me up about having to spell out the wretched word.

I listened to Shada yesterday and thought it was a great romp. Paul McGann, Lalla Ward, and John Leeson at their best. I can't imagine it playing out significantly differently if Tom Baker had managed to finish it himself.

But you know, you'd think the Time Lords would notice if one of Rassilon's Artifacts went missing, not to mention one of their TARDISes. I wonder who stole their TARDIS first, the Doctor or Salyavin? Either way, you'd think they'd increase security on the things, wouldn't you?

I have a theory that maybe the Time Lords leave TARDISes around for their renegades to steal (the Doctor, the Master (twice), the Rani, the Monk, Salyavin, Drax, Azmael, Dimension Riders' Master of an Oxford College, etc etc etc) cos it's a lot less hassle having them running round the universe conquering planets (or whatever) than it is having them making trouble on Gallifrey. Either that or security is really, REALLY bad (which we know for a fact anyway.)

What we don't know is how many TARDISes there are total. If there are 10's of thousands, then having less than 10 stolen is an amazingly good success rate. If there are only a hundred, though, that's not so good.

Hmm, there are 10s of thousands of nuclear warheads out there, but somehow I think losing less than 10 would upset a few people. Actually, I'm reminded of Capt Janeways's neverending supply of shuttles. For a ship cut off from any resupply, she went through those things like Kirk went through shirts.

I wonder that the TARDISes themselves don't play more of an active role. I suppose they have to do what they're told, but you'd think they'd have the discretion to not obey orders from known criminals?

Mandy, you have GOT to read Toy Story by Lawrence Miles! OK, it usually goes for about a hundred quid on eBay - it's in the Perfect Timing II charity anthology - but it'll soon be out at a slightly more reasonable price in a reprint of Dead Romance by Mad Norwegian Press (NB: don't let MNP get their hands on your money - read it in a bookshop!). It's (apparently) all about the TARDISes being the Matrix's daughters (Matrix means 'womb' in Latin) and how the Matrix only created the Time Lords so they could create shells for her offspring, and the TARDISes control their pilots and not vice-versa, and running off with renegades is all part of the master-plan...

I don't think there were THAT many TARDISes around on Gallifrey, owing to the fact that the Time Lords destroy the 'obsolete' models whenever they develop new ones. (I HAVE pointed this out to Lawrence as rather contradicting his Matrix/TARDIS theories, but he just started talking about elephant graveyards for some reason.) There's that scene in Deadly Assassin when Spandrell and Engin are checking the computer records and learning that every Type 40 except the Doctor's was decommissioned. They gave an exact number - hundreds of 'em - but I can't remember how many...anyone?

I'm still balking at the $50+ each they want for Dying Days and So Vile a Sin. I'm stockpiling books for a rainy day (my next deployment, that is), not setting up an investment. Still, I suppose they'll resell okay.

I can't find any listings for Perfect Timing or Toy Story in DW references. Are they normal books or do you have to go somewhere special for them?

Perfect Timing volumes I & II were fan edited short story collections published to raise money for the Foundation for the Study of Infant Death (Colin Baker's favorite charity, as his son Sam died of SIDS). They only had small print runs. The stories are not canon.

Oh. I didn't even know he was married. I probably won't get to read it then. Thanks for the info.

He's actually been married twice - first to Liza Goddard, who appeared in Terminus, and then to Marion, whom he has been with since the early 80s.

God - I mean Goddard - she wasn't the one with the hair, was she?

Don't worry Mandy, Dead Romance is being reprinted and - in an attempt to get us all to buy more Dead Romances - Toy Story is being included as an extra. It'll still be at a pretty unreasonable price, though, and don't hold your breath as to when its coming out, MNP are rather incompetent.

Shada Webcast (well half of it anyway):

There's a Presidential Palace on Gallifrey?? How come Tom just got a Presidential ROOM?

Romana obviously appreciates the Doctor's new body?!

The Doc can remember every word he n'Romana exchanged on that punt four lifetimes ago?

Brighton - i.e. Leisure Hive - happened directly after Shada? Tom and Romana didn't have a few years of happiness before the JNT era killed 'em both off?

It's FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG, seeing cartoon characters superimposed over a REAL photo of the Fourth Doctor in that punt.

Love the way the cartoon figures GLIDE along like Mawdryn...accompanied by the incredibly loud sound of footsteps.

'It's a Ford Prefect' - no. Just...no.

What happened to the Doctor's speed-reading abilities? Why are he and Romana slowly reading the titles of every book aloud to each other?

'Lock yourself in the TARDIS and send out an all-frequency alert' - the Doctor's instructions to Romana in case he doesn't come back. Cos, y'know, she's such a pathetic helpless female.

Well, if the Doc kept milk in a stasis-preserver in those days, he certainly doesn't by the time he's Eccy.

Young Parsons certainly gets back from all those TARDIS corridors in record time.

Gallifrey has Morse Code?

The Doctor spots the ball even though his back is to it?

Why does Skagra call it a 'green book' when it isn't green.

So how exactly did the Doctor expect Romana to have saved the Professor from the ball if she'd been there?

'You've killed a Time Lord and a very old friend of mine' - I wouldn't expect the Doctor to have his priorities in THAT order.

The Prof's body VANISHES just cos he's on his last life?

It takes two seconds with no new oxygen for it to get rather stuffy?

Oh look, I can't do this anymore. I don't know HOW the Webcast managed to •••• all the joie de vivre out of Shada and leave it a bitter and incredibly stupid husk, but it bloody DID.

Death Comes to Time:

Blimey.

This is Doctor Who, made by someone who's had it described to them by someone who's muddled it in their memories with Sapphire & Steel and bits of Star Wars.

It's hard to know where to start. The script is a mess, seemingly a first draft with an entirely disconnected subplot with Ace, an entire episode set on present Earth for no reason - diluting the impact of the events of Episode 5, and character arcs that assume you're familiar with people the writer's just made up. The ending is garbled nonsense, and the whole is based on a jumbled, half-thought-out mythology that's neither explained nor original nor interesting.

The cast is all over the place. McCoy and Aldred are largely on autopilot, Sessions hams it up for everything he's got and Fry is playing it totally straight and comes out the best. The "whoever's passing the studio window" cameos are horrible - seriously, John arsing Humphrys? Did Paxman say no? - the fleet of UNIT spaceships behind the moon makes me wonder if Dan Freedman's only memory of Who is the Day of the Daleks book cover, and making George W. Bush a character in the Who universe AND LETTING JON CULSHAW PLAY HIM is not allowed.

I'm glad this was a horrible failure. And so are you.

Well, no, I'm not exactly OVER THE MOON that about half the new visual Who we got during TSLABYOD was a godawful pile of ••••.

DWM devote six pages to what's obviously the most exciting thing to happen to DWM in years, the recording of the Shada webcast:

'Douglas would have been thrilled that all these lovely people were recreating Shada' - Lalla Ward in DWM. Not if he had to watch this webcast he wouldn't.

'It's all "I want your mind, I want his mind" for the next 60 pages' - Lalla Ward being slightly more honest about the mind-numbing tedium of this version of Shada.

'The involvement of Douglas Adams will bring a whole new crowd of people to the story, to BBCi, and to Doctor Who...Enormous benefit not only to BBCi, but to the standing of Doctor Who at the BBC in general. By giving us such an impressive production, Nick will allow us to present something new, original and exciting, and to really catapult Doctor Who out of its niche...We had to raise the game. I hope and believe that we've managed to do that' - it's quite SAD seeing how people delude themselves.

'The number of people who've said "yes" straight away is, I think, a measure of the quality of Douglas Adams' script' - or, of course, of the quality of Douglas Adams' OTHER scripts. They probably haven't even read - aha! I KNEW it! 'I was over the moon to be asked to take part in Shada, and without even seeing the script I said "yes"'....

DWM: 'Regrettably...Scream of the Shalka will be the last Doctor Who webcast for the forseeable future' - yeah, how tragic that A BRAND NEW SERIES OF DOCTOR WHO ON TELEVISION should have put paid to such delights. 'BBCi cryptically hinted that we may not have quite seen the last of Richard E Grant's incarnation, indicating that plans are underway for a story that will "tie up all the loose ends."' - bwahaha! Like anyone gave a •••• once we had a new, REAL, Ninth Doctor!

OK, well since they saw fit to put in on DVD, I finally bothered watching Shalka. Storywise, it wasn't too bad, although I'll probably never outgrow my 'cartoons are for kids' mindset.

I was surprised how comparable it was to the new series though with the Doctor emotionally scarred from a referenced but otherwise unknown backstory, not to mention cell phones and companions with boyfriends and even an off-camera mother.

One thing this story has made me appreciate is how glad I am the Doctor's namedropping has itself been dropped from the new series. THe references to Andy Worhol and others really began to grate.

You know everything I've ever said about Scream of the Shalka?

I take it all back.

I'd actually rather like to marry Scream of the Shalka. And have its babies.

James Goss: 'We needed to make sure that we actually had the rights to make a "Scream of the Shalka" webcast. [Daniel Judd] very patiently rang round a lot of people, and did a lot of the groundwork...Then Lorraine Heggessey started making speeches about how she'd love to bring back Doctor Who, but didn't have the rights. And so Daniel patiently pursued a long trail of paperwork and emails and people, and then put together a story on the site saying, "Well, the BBC does have the rights."...And then we got rung up by her office. "It's terribly embrrassing," they said, "She's saying one thing and you're saying the other."...And Daniel sent off the paperwork to a thundering silence. And then, a fortnight later, our boss was called to a meeting. He came back grinning from ear to ear...It was then, I think, that we realised that poor old "Shalka" was f*****.'

'The Doctor lost the woman he loved on his home planet of Gallifrey, to which he'd retired. But then the monsters invaded...All the Time Lords were killed, but retreated to the Matrix...Except the Doctor's love, who is truly dead' - Paul Cornell's helpful backstory for Shalka. What a load of ••••. (Plus, the Doc's MORE than capable of losing the woman he loves AND his homeworld and STILL not being such a depressing boring misery-guts as Richard E Grant so honestly, what's his EXCUSE?)

'We knew we had a good script on the way that could attract the likes of Diana Quick, Sir Derek Jacobi and Sophie Okonedo' - that's a point. Given that the script was, in point of fact, total rubbish, why DID some decent actors agree to do it?

Gary Russell: 'I was livid...BBCi had brought [Big Finish] in after the frankly ridiculous Death Comes to Time and we'd worked our arses off on Real Time and Shada. There had been talk abut a sequel to Real Time and other projects and then that was it, we were kicked out. It felt like they were saying "Thanks for teaching us everything you know, but we don't need you any more"...It was a real slap in the face. Personally, I think the finished result just proved they couldn't do it anyway.' - At last! Someone even more pissed off than I am about the existence of Scream of the Shalka...

'We felt Scream of the Shalka deserved its time in the spotlight, but we were robbed of the chance to be the big Doctor Who news because there was bigger Doctor Who news with the resurrection of the show' - wow. As far as sentences-designed-to-elicit-my-sympathy are concerned, THAT is the most epic fail in human history.

DWM Death Comes to Time article: 'Listeners can decide whether they want to take Doctor Who seriously or have a bloody good laugh' - well, this sort of attitude helps explain why said Webcast was such a failure. We want both, of course. And DCtT managed to spit all over Who continuity whilst not delivering a single chuckle.

'This webcast should introduce people to Doctor Who who have, perhaps, scorned it in the past' - what, and totally confirm every one of their prejudices?

DWM: 'No doubt, in that nightmarish parallel universe where Doctor Who didn't come back, Richard E Grant's Doctor would've failed to enjoy more ennui-ridden adventures' - what a FANTASTIC way of putting it. And in addition to our manifold other blessings in this, our Tenth New Who Anniversary Year, we can thank God (Russell T God, obviously) for NO MORE SCREAM OF THE SHALKAS.

Dan Freedman in DWM, at that happy happy time when, having watched the Death Comes to Time pilot, Radio 4 turned down the opportunity to order 'the full six-part epic':

'The problem is that everyone in Radio 4 wanted it, just not the commissioners. A senior editor said he thought it was stupid even to do a pilot, they should have just commissioned it. It's more of a shame for Radio 4 than anything' - of course it is, dear, you just keep telling yourself that. While the rest of us are quietly congratulating Radio 4 on a job well-done when it comes to commissioner-choosing...

Paul Cornell in DWM eleven years ago: 'With Shalka we beat BBC Three with our ratings, and I was quite proud of that' - well, that kinda depends what BBC3 were showing, doesn't it? If it was on before 7pm, then the answer is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

'For a while I was thinking of writing a little piece of fiction to bring an end to it, but I think it's nice to leave that Doctor out there for fan fiction' - oh come on, like even FAN FICTION would touch the Richard E Grant 'Doctor' with a bargepole...

'And if a book writer wants to use him ten years down the line, that would be fun' - SO not gonna happen, Sweetie.

'I got two phone calls from Russell. Firstly, he called me up and said "Terrible news!". And I said "What?". And he said, "I've got Doctor Who, it's actually happening!"' - and bless him, he really is the kindest man in the word, he started with "Terrible news!" because he meant that Shalka would be over' - that goes way beyond kindness to PATHOLOGICAL INSANITY.

'Of course I leapt up and down the room with joy at the terrible news! And then he said "We may well be calling upon you..." - and thus I was sent into weeks of utter fear...' - ah bless, these Living Gods are truly Just Like Us...

I like to think that the "Richard E. Grant" persona is hard-coded into Time Lord DNA, among perhaps thousands of others, as a possible form Time Lord's might take (and the Doctor took in two seperate timelines). This would be my explanation for Colin Baker and Geoffrey Bayldon's appearances as the Doctor and one other Time Lord.

That opens questions on the origins of Doctor Simeon and Professor Grisenko.

Paul Cornell on Shalka in DWM: 'It's the road not taken. An experiment on the way to something bigger. It shows that everybody was trying to surf the zeitgeist towards new Doctor Who. It's almost like the idea is so good and so huge, it keeps on trying to revive itself, and we just got there at the wrong point.' - Let's be honest...you didn't just get there with the WORST. TIMING. EVER. - your script was total •••• too.

I watched Scream of the Shalka. I found it disappointing. Richard E. Grant could be a great Doctor, but in this he's written as the most cowardly, miserable incarnation of the Doctor ever. He just whines and complains and tries to get out of helping people for almost all of the first 4 episodes. Even as someone who likes it when The Doctor can be a bit of a jerk, this was just terrible. He's like if the 11th Doctor from The Snowmen was even more of a miserable bastard, while also being a whiny coward. It brought the whole story down. It didn't help that the human characters were both written and performed poorly in most cases (the UNIT commander putting in probably the only good performance for a human character, which is kind of compensated for by his terrible second in command).

Richard E. Grant did the best he could with the material when it comes to his performance, but he couldn't elevate the writing. The villains could have been ok, but their screeching was beyond obnoxious, and they were really just kind of a standard alien invader. I did like a few things about the story. Even though we didn't see much of it, the TARDIS interior, with a huge spiral staircase, looked interesting. Also, having The Master as some kind of android could be an interesting story element. Besides that, though, Scream of the Shalka is a mediocre story done poorly.

Um, Judi...do you happen to be Rear Admiral kirk55555 of Washington State? Or are you stealing someone else's work again?

I'm on that board as the Four Doctor. Just figured i could borrow from that thread as some of the posters know more than I do. It's not stealing if i am an actual member of that board.

Er, yes it is.

And I've repeatedly made it clear that you're not to pass off other people's writing as your own on THIS board.

And while I'm on the subject, don't steal stuff from here to regurgitate on other boards either.

Scream of the Shalka, second viewing.

It's very classic series, isn't? Far more in common with that than with modern Who. The Doctor just seems like an amalgamation of past Doctors. Nothing new. (Note: I said pretty much the opposite above.)

Why is this Doctor so pale compared to the white human characters? Is that eye shadow? or some quirk of how the animators draw him?

Is it just me or does his voice sound rather McGannish?

Why does he take his first stand against the aliens in Alison's home? Surely he knows they're going to come up through the floor and ruin it all.

The Shalka get in the TARDIS with annoying ease.

The Doctor can sense which way the TARDIS is? Since when?

Meh.

P.R.O.B.E.: Shadows of Doubt:
youtu.be/S7XtJqKRoXE

In 2020 P.R.O.B.E. got revived starting with this webcast Shadows of Doubt.
This has P.R.O.B.E. creator Bill Baggs reprising Giles whom he had first played in the previous P.R.O.B.E. story When To Die back in 2015.
Giles is now director of P.R.O.B.E.
This marks the first P.R.O.B.E. story not to feature Liz Shaw.
Running for three minutes this is passable as Giles talks about his fears and doubts as he undergoes his tasks as P.R.O.B.E. director.

'This time we have no idea what lurks in that reservoir of evil.' - Er, yeah.

'We're probably the only ones who can' - I was about to list about fourteen other British-based alien-fighting organisations but then I remembered what happened to UNIT and thought, fair enough.

'Maxie hasn't truly gotten used to life on Earth' - why are some non-Americans UP TO AND INCLUDING THE THIRTEENTH DOCTOR suddenly using 'gotten'?

'Stop talking to yourself' - yup, two minutes in and the narrator has bored himself as much as me...

'Death Comes to Time' has reached its 20th birthday.

I'm old! I'm old!

Infiltration of the Daleks 2.1 The Ghost Moon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2CdWh3wQt4

I anticipated enjoyed this alot more then I did the actual Who Christmas special. The Inflitration of the Daleks is essentially the spiritual successor to the .T.V.21 comics. It's a good standalone Dalek series that fleshes them out more and introduces new ideas whilst taking the time and effort to do so in a way that fits the lore and continuity. It's alot better then the offical, "Dalek" animation series by miles, it's day and night.

Like in series 1 the interrogation scene is short but effective, much more convincing then the Dalek X in the novels or the Interragator in the comics. Though since their going to, "extract" the information from Sigma, (Yes Ms. Carter they have names but don't worry they explain it) presumably the plunger method we saw in the .T.V. show why haven't they done it already? Apparently all they want and value is the information about, "Omicron" not Sigma himself.

The new design is nicely minimal in it's difference which will aid the inevitable recreations while reinforcing the group's seeming clinical nature.

Why did they they all turn their eyestalks to face Sigma when the group's name is mantioned? I half expected and feared they'd break out into a song and dance number.

"One of the many groups tasked with Dalek tenacity", the writer at least acknowledges that they've created yet another Cult of Skaro like group though it's biological focus makes it different. They could be biodata scientists as the timing for Dalek's discovering the concept would fit.

"What Omicron has become". So whatever hybrid survived and attacked Omicron merged with them? Whatever it was the Daleks feared yet valued it enough to not have killed it in the centuries since the orignal base was abandoned. Interesting. Series 1's flash fprward showed Theta up against a bunch of red iris Daleks, Perpetuity modified drones?

Omicron shows lack of knowledge on modern Dalek technology and Theta hasn't been reduced to a brainless lackey. Good.

An ancient Dalek base weapon is capabble of splitting an cutting edge modern saucer in half? That's a bit difficult to believe but it wasn't listed in the records like the one in series 1 so it could be a secret installation that's recieved upgrades.

"Efficiency is paramount at Perpetuity", says the twonk that's been doing nothing but monologuing for a while now and delayed the information extraction for no real reason.

Dalek slapstick which is suprisingly funny.

Why does the leader's monologue podium have a prison delivery shoot built into it? Why is it just that one section?

The base design is very much in Mechmaster's researched style.

I'm guessing the whole, "Sigma your my saviour/Perpetuity is a lie but I have no time to explain/Use this gun to escape and avenge me" routine will be revealed to be some kind of test, it seemed like an act though I don't know what such a test could be about as he obviously shouldn't get far. It could equally just be bad writing but I'm willing to give the writer the benfit of the doubt for now.

Time War Bronze casings in an unupgraded ancient fabrication plant?