Babylon 5 stylee story arcs seem to be the in thing in the BBC books at the moment. What do you think about this? Should we have more arc books, or more standalones?

Depends if the books that are part of the arc can be read as stand-alones or do you need to follow several to get a true sense of what is going on?

The problem I've seen with novel story arcs is that the middle novels suffer from "Continued Next Volume" syndrome. Because the big climax has to be reserved for the last book, the middle books have real resolution problems--either there is none, or the next volume reveals that there wasn't any resolution.

Case in point--Bloodheat. After a rousing battle and great solution to the Human/Silurian problem, the Doctor tells Benny and Ace that he has to eliminate this alternate universe. Ace is rightfully PO'ed, and even Benny is dumbfounded. Also, since the true villain had to remain a secret until "No Future", the Doctor was left making vague accusations about the mystery cause.

Personally, I quite like the approach BBC books is taking in the current 'arc'. The books aren't really related in plot, but there is an undercurrent of character development- mainly centred around Compassion (and trust me, there is going to be a veeeeeeeeery interesting end to this).

Then there are things like the pointlessly conceived Cat's Cradle trilogy, which are best avoided.
I've only ever read Timewyrm: Exodus out of the Timewyrm series and that manages to stand alone quite well.

I don't really care whether they're in arcs or not, as long as the books are good. I suppose most people who read them are either scarf-wearing nutters, who'll religiously read every single book anyway, or casual acquaintances who'll be lost by the second paragraph of most non-target Dr Who books, regardless of whether they're in an arc or not. So we might as well have arcs, in the hope they'll add up to some kind of deep, meaningful, mind-blowing epic (though Laurence Miles at least is capable of making one book a mind-blowing epic).

Of course, this means you have to read the wretched things in order *considers getting out the pins and acquiring a voodoo doll of the THIRD person to get to Putney Library before me and grab The Blue Angel.*

But the fact that the Virgin Gods' arc are all wonderful (apart from The Joy Device) has probably influenced my thinking in favour of arcs.

Emily- you can reserve library books you know...

And anyway, the Joy Device isn't part of the arc, and I found it pretty funny.

It costs EIGHTY PENCE to reserve a Wandsworth library book!!!!!!! Do you really think I'd fork that out when I can get it for free (eventually)?

And that's what I'm objecting to about The Joy Device - it ISN'T part of the arc, so what's it doing in the middle of the arc? How can you just put galaxy-threatening Gods aside and take a book off? And it being funny (or trying to be) is one of the really objectionable things about it. We've just had TWO DAVE STONES, for heaven's sake - the last thing we need is another comedy.

EIGHTY PENCE!!! MY GOD!! SCANDAL!! :-)

Ah, so it's probably not the time to mention that Frontier Worlds and Parallel 59 have sod all to do with the Interference arc... (well, superficially at least)

But MSE and RTTFP are not exactly comedies, in the way that, say, Sky Pirates! is.

And even Benny's entitled to a holiday once in a while.

BTW, it's not like we're going to get an ending to the Benny arc any time soon (Twilight of the Gods is *not* a tidying up cleanly type book)

It *is* a scandal - I've never across a library before that makes you *pay* to reserve a book.

Neither do I, Chris. It must be 'Brit' thing.

All British public services are bad. It's a tradition!

;-)

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that ...

Cherie BOOTH if you don't mind...

I'm devastated...to think that during the Government's recent campaign on 'Rip-Off Britain' I was busy thinking 'Well, so what, the gross overcharging only hurts those reckless, extravagant Thatcherite-minded people who actually BUY stuff.'

But it's not just a Brit thing - the South African libraries also charge for reservations.

I think there is a Who fan at our local library. In the video section there are masses. It was how I got to see 'The Brain of Morbius'.

As for the library thing - do you know how many rooms it would take to stock all these books? I happen to feel sorry for the poor old libraries - neglected because of Domes and roads and forced to satisfy every reader of every town as a result. If it weren't for the humble library, my reading would've been substantially lessened. And yes, I've parted with a few 80ps too.

Yes, I know I'm a wealthy American who can actually afford to BUY Who books. But I'm also surprised that your libraries carry the novels. I don't think I've ever seen a US library with any Who books, including the Target novelizations. I take that back; years ago I found a hardback containing Genesis of the Daleks, Revenge of the Cybermen, and Terror of the Zygons.

My school library had the old Target books but I don't venture much into public libraries nowadays. I give people lists of the Who merchandise I do and don't own and I get Who-related presents that way.

Where I live in the US I can't find Who Books at libraries, either. For that matter they are hard to find in major bookstores. All that Star Trek and Star Wars krap seems to fill more shelf space than the entire Science Fiction section. The best places I've noticed for Dr Who and other good stuff is in the used bookstores, and comic bookstores (or is it graphic novel stores). I once found an original paperback novel from the Prisoner TV series. I believe only three were published. I kick myself still for not buying it.

PJW, I am a fervent supporter of public libraries. I just don't do so financially if I can help it - this would create a dependency culture where they come to reply on my hand-outs. Instead I help them help themselves, by getting books out - which _is_ supposed to be their raison d'etre. Plus it's against my principles - free books (along with free Internet) are a fundamental human right. Sort of. Though sometimes libraries get their hands on my hard-earned cash by fining me.

Mike, Doctor Who permeates British culture in a way that American culture has been deprived of - no library would dare to be without its quota of Who. Though I can't say they're overly generous - I'm a member of about 100 libraries in 10 boroughs, and there are still some Who books I can't get my hands on.

i like story arcs for the most part. the compassion story arc seemed to be strecthed for too long (but it only *seemed* this way because of the amount of badly written book wedged in there, including the wrap-up catastrophe 'The Ancestor Cell').
The Enemy-Time Lord War would've been good if Miles kept his creations to himself and didn't allow the other authors to destroy them.
My fav. story arc would have to be the Psi-Powers series, because the books can all be read as stand-alones but when you read them all you pick up a lot of extra stuff.

Yes, I have to say that The Ancestor Cell (not to mention Twilight of the Gods II) does graphically demonstrate the main problem of story-arcs - how to wrap them up satisfactorily. After a year (or whatever) of build-up, the finale is bound to be a let-down, especially as it has to reconcile all its often conflicting predecessors.

I don't think it was a matter of Lawrence Miles 'allowing' other authors to use his stuff - he just had no legal right to stop them. He obviously isn't too happy about what was done with the Enemy and Faction Paradox - have you read his review of The Ancestor Cell?

Yeah, I read the review, pretty funny stuff.
But Miles' didn't have to hand the rights for the Enemy and Faction Paradox over to the BBC Books, he could've kept them for himself to use only, but he must've obviously been either
a) very stretched for cash
or
b) just a sharing type of guy
for signing the rights over (which he *did* do)

When Virgin had the books licence, their writers' guidelines indicated that any new characters, places etc would have to be available to other Virgin writers so they could up their own universe - I imagine these rights would have been signed over in the contract. And I would guess BBC Books do the same.

Yes, all right, this has nothing to do with any board here, but I need something to read. Now I've read a few Who books and had varying degrees of success with them, but given there are a bazillion more, which ones do you recommend? I like those with really cosmic consequences or which add to our knowledge of the Doctor (Lungbarrow, Ancestor Cell), but also those that bring the character to life as we knew him on TV or in the Big Finish audios.

Sorry, Mandy, can't help you ... I've only read 4 or 5 books so far. Emily can probably help you, though ...

Presumably you only mean Who books? Otherwise I'd do a shameless plug for my own novel...

Aha! *Rubs hands gleefully*

Well, for bringing the Doctor to life you can't do better than Vampire Science by Jon Blum and Kate Orman or The Dying Days by Lance Parkin (Eighth), Festival of Death by Jonathan Morris (Fourth - honestly, its even more Tom Bakery than the real thing, a physical impossibility!) or The Also People by Ben Aaronovitch, Love and War by Paul Cornell, or Just War by Lance Parkin (Seventh). If you want to see the Doctor portrayed hysterically badly, I'd recommend Terrance Dick's Warmonger, with its skinhead warlord Supremo of a Fifth Doctor and its Scourge of Sylvana guerilla-leader Peri. (Dishonourable mention also goes to the Fourth Doctor from Keith Topping's Ghost Ship but sadly that doesn't have the same entertainment value.)

Adding to our knowledge of the Doctor...Father Time by Lance Parkin portrays him as a dad; Cabinet of Light by Daniel O'Mahony as a myth; Adventuress of Henrietta Street by Lawrence Miles as an elemental (and SPOILER); Dead Romance by Lawrence Miles as an Evil Renegade (Alright! I admit it! He's not even IN Dead Romance, you've just got to read it anyway!); Human Nature by Paul Cornell as (obviously) a human. City of the Dead by Lloyd Rose is probably the best portrayal of him as an amnesiac, while Interference by Lawrence Miles, Set Piece by Kate Orman, or Seeing I by Jon Blum and Kate Orman all have VERY wrenching depictions of him as a torture victim.

Big cosmic events...obviously, you read everything by Lawrence Miles. Immediately. No one does cosmic the way he does. Start with Alien Bodies, which irrevocably alters the past (with Faction Paradox) and future (with the War in Heaven) of the Whoniverse, not to mention decides the fate of the Doctor once and for all. Also worth trying are Cold Fusion by Lance Parkin - pretty cosmic in an alternative universe-y and slightly boring kind of way - and So Vile a Sin (implications for Doctor, Companion, future Earth history, etc).

Well, that should do to be getting on with, though there are plenty more great Who books out there...

A caveat for you, Mandy. All the Virgin novels are getting harder and harder to find, unless you want to shell out a lot of money on eBay. Take it from one who knows from first hand experience.

Try browsing our Who in Print section. You may not get a consensus, but you'll at least get a good idea of what the books are about.

I have read Vampire Science (on Emily's earlier recommendation somewhere) and Cold Fusion (which I can't remember offhand). I'll certainly give the others a go.

Notice how many of these books are about death and war? I stand by an earlier post that if I ever see the Doctor, I'm running the other way.

Thanks for the input!

I blame the titles on the editors. Almost every story I've read from writers of Who give completely different titles to the original story. For example, "City of Death" was first titled "Curse of the Sephiroth", while the first "Ark in Space" was called "Puffball" (!)

Actually the original title for 'The Ark in Space' was... 'The Ark in Space'. 'Puffball' was the title one of the episodes, all of which had a '-ball' theme. John Lucarotti hadn't written for the series since 1965 and hadn't realised that the invidual episode title policy had been dropped.

I'd have called the story "Bubblewrap," myself....

I was reading another negative review from Finn Clark about the Eighth Doctor Adventures, and he stated off-hand that the series was ending, and was happy about that. I had to think about that a couple seconds before I realized what he was saying, and then it hit me;
He believes that the new series will be about the Ninth Doctor, not the Eighth, and as such BBC Books would have to start publishing Ninth Doctor Adventures. To keep with the new shows continuity, this would mean that Fitz and Trix would be replaced by either the tv series companion, or a new companion that would travel with the Doctor after his initial companion from the series.
Now that the 8DA line will be ended, as McCoy's New Adventures came to an end, I'm wondering what all of you think about this. Has the Eighth Doctor run his course? Has Fitz been around too long? Would you want to see the new Doctor and new companion in the BBC Books 9DA range?

Just from a numerical standpoint, I'd have no objection to ending the EDAs. There have been 67 novels (68 if you include "The Dying Days"), 17 BF audios, and a handfull of short stories. It's time to let go.

I suppose, tho, if some writer really felt a need to add to the 8th Doctor's history, s/he could always write a PDA....

One should point out, tho, that Finn's comments are unofficial. There's no official comment on the future of the EDA line. And there are still quite a few novels in the pipeline, enough to be published even while the new series is running.

I'd be sorry to see 'em go - god knows why. Maybe I've just got used to grumbling about them all the time. Eighth Doctor PDAs just wouldn't be the same (compare Seventh Doctor PDAs with the NAs! There IS no comparison). No doubt the BBC would be keen to cash in on the new series and produce Ninth Doctor books (assuming they can be bothered to produce novels rather than just novelisations of the new series (NEW SERIES, everyone!!!)). Though there's no hurry - didn't Virgin carry on publishing McCoy NAs for months after the telemovie?

Given that I doubt the new series (NEW SER- sorry, I must try to stop doing that...) will repeat the telemovie's mistake of doing a regeneration story, it could be left to the EDAs to give McGann a good send-off. I'm assuming the new TV Doctor isn't gonna be an amnesiac, so they'd have to restore his memories first...in fact, maybe he could regenerate BECAUSE remembering that he'd destroyed Gallifrey promptly led to him blowing his brains out, or something.

Hmm...wonder if the new series'll have Gallifrey in it. In which case, the last few EDAs might have to spend their time retconning the events of The Ancestor Cell.

The NAs ran for about a year after the release of the TV movie. That was a different situation, because Virgin books only had a license to use the Who name from the BBC. Since BBC Books is a subsidiary of BBC, Ltd., I assume they could run for as long as they are still making money.

Over at the BBC Books section of the BBC website, there is absolutely no mention of ending the series. They still have up submission requirements, and they are still accepting manuscripts. The current release schedule shows titles coming out to the end of this year, which is the usual advance time they've shown in the past. I suspect that Mr. Clark was merely passing off his own opinion as real news.

From what I've read on the new series, they plan on introducing the 9th Doctor in medias res, with no regeneration story or explanation of how he (or she) got there. I suppose they could go back and fill in the backstory at a later date, but that could wait.

I keep hoping that the EDAs will somehow find a way to "re-boot" Gallifrey, because the Doctor just isn't the same without the other Time Lords. I'm getting very tired of the ED not remembering companions or past stories. History is a very important part of the Doctor, and not having a history weakens the stories.

A man is the sum of his memories and a Time Lord even more so! Yes, let the Doctor get his memory and his home planet back. (AND some Daleks - negotiations are promising!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/3522952.stm)

Frankly, I could live without the Daleks. Their only shred of hope is that current special effects technology could actually make them scary, as opposed to silly.

As I've recently discovered, the novel, Asylum, was intended as a Third Doctor story, which means that Eighth Doctor novel submissions that are accepted could undergo a switch of Doctors during the editing process. It reminds me of the old days between (Don't hit me, Emily!!!) Star Trek movies, when novelists had to be careful what they were going to write, lest they step on screenwriters toes.

And more information on the EDA series, from Outpost Gallifrey:

"Outpost Gallifrey has it on good authority that while the Doctor Who series currently being published by BBC Books will indeed continue into next year, the adventures of the Eighth Doctor -- as they exist now, as their own separate series -- are coming to an end. After the first quarter of next year, the Eighth Doctor series...will be blended into the "past Doctor" adventures, as the new television series gets going; while they won't be every other month there will be some emphasis placed on this Eighth Doctor, and novels will be able to branch back into the current existing series with Eighth Doctor companions that are no longer traveling in the TARDIS. There is currently no word as to whether or not there will be a book series running concurrently featuring the new Doctor, nor if the books will go back to the two-per-month release schedule of years past; hopefully there will be word on this in the next issue of Doctor Who Magazine, which is said to feature definitive word on the subject from range consultant/editor Justin Richards."

So I guess Finn Clark may have known what he was talking about, and I was full of it. ;-)

Taking advantage, or trying to, of a recent trip to the States, I thought I'd pick up some of these Who novels you guys keep talking about.

What the heck? There ain't none! Neither Borders nor Barnes & Noble carry them, even though both of them use to when I lived here.

It's bad enough I can't buy them when I go to New Zealand (I hear they're mainly only in Aukland), but here too? And it's not like I'm in some countryside or even suburban area.

'Sup wid dat, man?

Problems with the distributor. The previous distributor for BBC Books (the EDAs and PDAs) went belly-up a few years back. While the new distributor is bit more reliable, the big chains are a bit leary about carrying the books again.

You can occassionally find the EDAs, PDAs and the new 9th and 10th Doctor books at your larger Borders (but never B&N, curse them). You're best bet, though is Amazon.com. Not only do they carry all the titles, you can usually get them at a slightly reduced price.

You can also harrass your local Borders staff and get them to order the books. If enough of us do that, it might just sink into their corporate minds that they should carry a Doctor Who title or two, in addition to the 1,231,458 Star Trek and Star Wars novels.

Thanks for the info, Mike.
Back home now. Didn't get any but did bring back my copy of The Romance of Crime, which was supposed to be my carry-on book when I left the States in 1999 but got left behind, and the two Dalek Masterplan books which I want to re-read.

I was interested to read that Michael Moorcock will be writing a BBC Doctor Who novel. For those of you not familiar with Mr. Moorcock, he is a giant in the SF field. As one of the founders and editor of "New Worlds" magazine in the 1960s, he was one of the leading members of the "New Wave" SF movement that sought to leave behind the fields pulp magazine roots. He's the creator of such offbeat characters as Jerry Cornelius and Elric of Melnibone. Having him write a BBC Who novel is a bit like asking Stephen King to write a new "Twilight" book. Stay tuned.

Ah yes, I useed to be quite a big Moorcock fan when I was a LOT younger. I'm puzzled by his insistance that his book isn't a TV tie-in, though...how exactly is it gonna manage THAT?

'There's a woman called Tegan in Australia, fighting for Aboriginal rights; there's Ben and Polly in India, running an orphanage there. There was Harry, oh I loved Harry. He's a doctor, he did such good work with vaccines, he saved thousands of lives. Oh and there's a Dorothy something, she runs that company - A Charitable Earth, she's raised billions. Oh and this couple in Cambridge, both professors, Ian and Barbara Chesterton. Rumour has it they've never aged, not since the Sixties...'

Wow. In 30 seconds of a SJA episode, Russell T God tore up more novels and audios than he did in five years of running Who itself. I can just picture him, shrieking with glee on the brink of the Timelash, hurling in book after pitifully-fluttering book...

I mean, Time's Vigilante is HIGHLY unlikely to move from nineteenth-century France to modern-day Earth to fund-raise, so that's practically the whole New Adventures...GONE!

There were at least two Short Trips stories that said Ben and Polly didn't marry...GONE!

The Fifth Doctor audio The Reaping (or was it The Gathering) claimed that Tegan was living in London with a brain tumour...GONE!

Jo divorced from Cliff, with one (ONE!) kid in the EDA Genocide...GONE!

Harry engaging in nerve warfare rather than vaccines in Harry Sullivan's War...GONE!

...Mind you, the Face of the Enemy PDA might just survive this Stalinist-style purge. If it didn't mention Cambridge, well, Ian n'Babs could have moved there later...don't suppose it says something tactless about how much they've aged, or anything...? (Apparently McIntee wanted to kill off Barbara but the editor wouldn't let him. Bet he's pretty relieved about that NOW.)

Haaaaaaaang on. Didn't Damaged Goods have Harry discover an AIDS vaccine in the blood of some bloke who'd had sex with/slept with someone who'd had sex with Chris Cwej? So basically all the NAs/MAs/EDAs/PDAs are rendered uncanonical...EXCEPT RTG's own book...

hmmm interesting analysis from a single paragraph

Not that I care about the PDA/EDA's not surviving, if the result means the ex-companions are left in a better state (eg Tegan).....

Perhaps it's the Time War's fault actually that these changes have taken place... I want to believe this.

I don't remember the books doing anything to Tegan...it was the audios which gave her a brain tumour. Of course, Ace (shot dead by boyfriend in Loving the Alien), Sarah (almost certainly shot dead in Bullet Time), Liz (dissolved in acid in Eternity Weeps), Dodo (shot dead in Who Killed Kennedy), and Mel (slaughtered by neighbours in Heritage) are another matter...

The Time War can certainly be held responsible for a LOT of changes, as can the Cracks. And personally I'm now viewing the novels and audios less as statements of fact and more as through-a-glass-darkly glimpses of possible futures and pasts, alternative universes, etc. Obviously SOME of the 'authors' are false prophets (Lidster, Lewis, etc etc) but many of the others obviously managed to tune into the tides of the universe - rather like the Theseus legend foretold the Nimon. Though sometimes they seem to have a bit of the Matrix beamed into their minds, or something - the Human Nature NA got VERY close to the truth.

A new range of books are to be released by Doctor Who Children's Books next year, featuring the current TARDIS crew of the Doctor, Amy and Rory. Aimed at a younger audience, each paperback book runs to around 400 pages and will feature two stories, described as "fast-paced, fun-filled Doctor Who adventures!"

Hmm. The existing NSAs are quite childish enough, thanks, and the previous attempt at being even more childish was the godawful Darksmith Legacy, so I'm not overly hopeful.

Still...I hope they get Terrance Dicks to do one. Just for old times' sake. (And to see him try to insert the inevitable rape-attempt subtly.)

Wow. In 30 seconds of a SJA episode, Russell T God tore up more novels and audios than he did in five years of running Who itself. I can just picture him, shrieking with glee on the brink of the Timelash, hurling in book after pitifully-fluttering book...

Actually, he tore up the novels the moment he got Who back into production. Who is now following the Star Trek example, if it didn't happen on a television story, it didn't happen.

Of course, you can always say "parallel universe". We know such universes exist alongside the Prime Whoniverse.

Yeah, but we don't know know that the Doctor exists in them. The evidence so far is that there is only one Doctor, and perhaps there was only one Galifrey and one set of Time Lords.

I blame Omega.

Actually, he tore up the novels the moment he got Who back into production.

Oh, I dunno...He didn't automatically tear into the books/audios from the start (just that stupid Webcast with Richard E Grant as the Ninth Doctor). I think they were compatible until the fatal moment Eccy claimed to be 900...(which contradicts Time and the Rani as well as numerous books.)

The evidence so far is that there is only one Doctor, and perhaps there was only one Galifrey and one set of Time Lords.

Quite. And it makes no sense whatsoever. TennantDoc claims that EVERYTHING WE DO creates a brand new universe, so what happens every time, say, Leela blinks? A new universe is spun-off, utterly identical to the one in which she didn't blink...but with the Time Lords AND the Doctor suddenly wiped out of it (with his achievements intact or no parallel Earth would still be in existence).

I blame Omega.

I blame Rose Tyler. RTG needed some way of permanently separating her from the Doctor - not through choice and not through death...

So why aren't we seeing more novels being announced? Come on BBC Books! Emily needs something to hate!

Apollo 23- " it zips along pleasantly enough" (so that one was good then)

Night Of The Humans- "utterly unworthy of our glorious new series."

The Forgotten Army- "To be fair, as alien invasions go, this is quite original. If a bit rubbish."

Nuclear Time- "I just don't get it."

Glamour Chase- "It's all rather unoriginal"

King's Dragon- "God, this thing is forgettable."

The Coming Of The Terraphiles- "Nothing is more boring OR embarrassing than something trying to be funny and falling utterly flat. And it's so bloody repetitive."

I guess I just answered my own question...

Hey- while I'm on a roll- here's Emily's thoughts on the tenth Doc novels....

The Resurrection Casket- "OK, so there are a few twists, but frankly most of them are screamingly obvious."

The Stone Rose- "I've suspended a LOT of disbelief over the decades but I draw the line at that godawful GENIE."

The Feast Of The Drowned- "Water...boredom...chases by zombified people...boats...running round naval bases...boredom....drownings...sinister authority figures dropping blatant hints they're Older Than They Seem...alien influences...boredom..."

The Nightmare Of Black Island- "Not particularly worthwhile"

The Art Of Destruction- " Inundated with unnecessary subplots ...in a vain attempt to disguise the fact this is a bog-standard run-around involving the TARDIS crew... and I lose the will to live."

The Price Of Paradise- "Reviewer despairingly banging own head against wall - check!"

Sting Of The Zygons- "A miserably average NSA"

The Last Dodo- "More than adequate, if not enormously inspired." (that almost sounds like a compliment...)

Wooden Heart- "A thoroughly tedious Castrovalva/Mind of Evil rip-off...as befits a book by Martin Day, all of whose previous works had 'mediocre' stamped through 'em like a stick of Brighton rock."

Wetworld- "An average NSA" (ooh- two in close succession!)

Forever Autumn- "Dull and unoriginal"

Sick Building- "Tediously padded... with a grossly unoriginal premise"

Wishing Well- "An (sic) thoroughly average Who book, lacking excitement or originality"

The Pirate Loop- "Unfortunately the promising ingredients are recycled to the point of tedium."

Peacemaker- " An unmemorable but mildly enjoyable little continuity-fest." (God, she just can't say she liked it can she??)

Martha In The Mirror- "Ah. Crocodile people. Sooner or later the new series is gonna run out of animals to humanise"

Snowglobe 7- "I don't like a) snow, b) books about snow, c) books, episodes or audios about hibernating aliens emerging from snow (unless they've got Tom Baker to liven 'em up), d) Martha Jones, or e) Mike Tucker" (or f) these bloody books)

The Many Hands- "Unbelievable.... Just kill me now"

Ghosts Of India- "This rattles along in a lively enough manner despite the mind-boggling unoriginality...." (back handed compliment yet again...)

The Doctor trap- "Not bad (especially the in-jokes)" TWO IN A ROW!!! Let's try for three shall we...

Shining Darkness- "this makes a perfectly adequate NSA." HOLY BUCKETS!! THREE!! Let's go for four!!

The Story Of Martha- "A great idea - if we HAVE to have yet another Martha book. It's just the execution that's lacking" Ah well...maybe next time...

Beautiful Chaos- "it's a bit of a waste of time."

The Eyeless- "Thirtieth time lucky - the NSAs finally produced a proper book." (Thirtieth time lucky and Emily finally admits she liked a book in plain english without backhanded compliments...)

The Darksmith Legacy- "ten mini Gaping Chasms of Despair - pointless, skinny things obviously designed for really dumb six-year-olds."

Judgement Of The Judoon- "Let's face it...investigating lost luggage was never gonna be as exciting as, say, watching an insane Dalek God-Emperor purifying the Earth with fire...but did it have to be quite so pointless and childish?"

The Slitheen Excursion- "Moderately enjoyable despite its numerous implausibilities" (would kind of describe most of the Tom Baker era as well...)

Prisoner Of The Daleks- "this was pleasantly heavyweight for an NSA"

The Taking Of Chelsea 426- "this is just implausible"

Autonomy- "Unblessed by a single shred of originality"

The Krillitane Storm- "What cretin would write about alien delegates getting together for a mysterious auction on Earth after Alien Bodies? How could this possibly be expected to survive the inevitable comparison?"

I also liked a few of these: Doctor Trap, Eyeless, Prisoner of the Daleks.

NOW I'm feeling guilty.

About Shining Darkness obviously, not the OTHER ones. SD was actually an enjoyable and amusing book which I intend to read again some day just for fun. (And I wouldn't say THAT about any of the others.) 'Adequate' was very mean.

So why aren't we seeing more novels being announced? Come on BBC Books! Emily needs something to hate!

You wrong the BBC. Come 3rd February (or as soon thereafter as the libraries can cough 'em up, assuming we HAVE any libraries left by next month) they are generously supplying me with something new to hate. 200-page paperbacks for - I get the vague impression - EVEN YOUNGER readers than the NSAs. And *shudders* two of them stuck together in each volume! (I THINK I'll give 'em a Nitcentral thread each but if there's very little discussion I could have a messy-looking combination thread.) Take a look at:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1405907576/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d1_i3?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0HKR2ABWRE8AJ3MQMNDZ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=467128533&pf_rd_i=468294

Yup, they're keeping the embarrassing taglines and, of course, Justin Richards is the very first author. Hating 'em already...

Apollo 23- "it zips along pleasantly enough" (so that one was good then)

It most certainly was not! I just have a FAR higher tolerance level for books that are bad-but-not-boring than for books that are boring-but-not-bad.

The Forgotten Army- "To be fair, as alien invasions go, this is quite original. If a bit rubbish."

Make that UNBELIEVABLY rubbish. (I am just WAY too soft-hearted a reviewer.)

Sting Of The Zygons- "A miserably average NSA"

I could perhaps have omitted the word 'miserably'. Merely saying 'an average NSA' would have perfectly conveyed the exact amount of misery involved without rubbing salt into the wound.

The Last Dodo- "More than adequate, if not enormously inspired." (that almost sounds like a compliment...)

This wasn't Jac Rayner at her absolutely sparkling best (her second Benny Big Finish book, The Glass Prison, is in my top ten Who-related novels, no doubt about it) hence the disappointment...though I should just have been relieved she didn't go straight off the rails, a la Stone Rose.

Wishing Well- "An (sic) thoroughly average Who book

Eek! I shall amend it to 'A thoroughly' forthwith!

Peacemaker- "An unmemorable but mildly enjoyable little continuity-fest." (God, she just can't say she liked it can she??)

Well, why should I? I was already being extremely generous, as I don't remember Peacemaker as remotely enjoyable (mind you, that would be where the 'unmemorable' thing comes in).

Ghosts Of India- "This rattles along in a lively enough manner despite the mind-boggling unoriginality...." (back handed compliment yet again...)

Actually even a back-handed compliment was probably more than it deserved. I was just on a roll after actually enjoying Shining Darkness and Doctor Trap and rather taken with the idea of having ONE set of releases I actually LIKED. (Sure, criticising stuff is more fun, but even BEFORE the NSAs came out, Who novels had already supplied me with enough of such 'fun' to last a lifetime.)

The Doctor trap- "Not bad (especially the in-jokes)"

I maybe should have been kinder. I shouldn't let a few gaping plot-holes distract me from the fact this was quite clever, quite enjoyable and quite funny. Maybe I'll give it another go sometime.

The Slitheen Excursion- "Moderately enjoyable despite its numerous implausibilities" (would kind of describe most of the Tom Baker era as well...)

It most certainly would NOT! Moderately, indeed!

Autonomy- "Unblessed by a single shred of originality"

Hey, originality isn't everything, that's a bit harsh - of you, I mean, not me. I did go on to mention the things I actually LIKED.

I also liked a few of these: Doctor Trap, Eyeless, Prisoner of the Daleks.

Yup, throw in Shining Darkness and those are the FOUR good-ish books amongst the THIRTY Tenth Doctor Adventures (generously excluding Darksmith Legacy, which would make it four good-ish books amongst FORTY insults to Tennanty goodness).

I am just WAY too soft-hearted a reviewer

<cough> <splutter> Really...?

I am just WAY too soft-hearted a reviewer

the above posts would seem to indicate otherwise...but hey...let's do some looking at ninth Doctor novels just for kicks...
(and no, I shall spare you all a rundown of the other eight doctors worth of novels)

The Clockwise Man- "ENJOYABLE? Enjoyable my ****."

The Monsters Inside- "It starts off mildly enjoyable, but soon degenerates into tedium"

Winner Takes All- "Unoriginal... containing one-dimensional aliens... this is nevertheless great fun." (Hmmm...yet again with the backhanded compliment)

The Deviant Strain- " Who'd've thought it!.. Creative Director Justin Richards should - yet again - have found...HIMSELF!...to be the most worthy of continuing the Doctor's adventures in time and space. It's especially surprising given the STAGGERINGLY BORING nature of this book."

Only Human- "Great fun, but packed with hard-to-swallow stuff." (sounds like the entire Tom Baker era again...)

The Stealers Of Dreams- "Steve Lyons puts his fictional and shark obsessions to moderately amusing use."

Wow- I think Emily actually enjoyed most of those books (or possibly was blinded by Ecclstonian goodness at the time)

I was absolutely not blinded by the *pitiful sobbing noises* beautiful photos of Ol' Big Ears on the covers...it was just a fact that, uniquely amongst Who book series, two-thirds of 'em happened to be more good than bad. No doubt this is easier when there are only SIX of 'em. (And they didn't bother making ANY of them into audios! I'm almost as indignant about THAT as I am about all the Tenth and Eleventh Doctor novels being put onto stupid CDs...)

Of all those Original Who novels, I only own twelve of them.

I was very selective, picking only my favourite eras, namely the Fourth Doctor/Sarah/Harry and Fifth Doctor/Nyssa/Tegan.


A Device Of Death

System Shock

The Sands Of Time

Goth Opera

Wolfsbane

Millenium Shock

Asylum

Empire Of Death

Fear Of The Dark

Zeta Major


That's ten of them.

The other two I have, Faces Of The Enemy and Imperial Moon, I picked up because they peaked my interest.

As for the Eighth Doctor, I had zero interest in him and his books.

You do realise that's an insane way to choose? Personally, I'd prefer a good story to a good Doctor any day. (Though, come to think of it, the best Doctor has an absolutely perfect run while the worst doesn't have a single decent story to his name. Weird.) I'd much rather watch a good Davison like Snakedance than a bad Tom like Horns of Nimon. And that applies a thousandfold to the books, which are bereft of any Real Live Doctors, and, let's face it, generally not that great at evoking their eras. (Give or take Festival of Death.)

I can't say you're unlucky with your collection - having one good and two or three not-bad books out of twelve is considerably above the odds for PDAs/MAs - but you've missed SO MUCH. Something like Alien Bodies isn't about the Eighth Doctor it's about the Doctor's entire lives. And death. And his whole Whoniverse. And Dead Romance doesn't have the Doctor in it but STILL manages to be the greatest ever Who novel.

Well, the reason I posted here is because I'm reading my way through them for the first time in a while.

Wow, that's dedication. I can barely think about the old series now, much read any of the books.

Well, since Classic Who was the show I enjoyed, it will always have a special place in my heart.

Tim is indeed a shining example to us all and EVERYONE on Nitcentral should reread their entire Who book collections.

Except those of us with really, really big Who book collections - that would be too cruel, even by my standards. (Hell, it would probably be too cruel by DAVROS'S standards.)

I still remember paying $60 or something for a copy of Lungbarrow on eBay. Sold it for the same, I think.

So far I have reread A Device Of Death, Wolfsbane, Fear Of The Dark, Imperial Moon, The Sands Of Time, and Goth Opera. I just finished System Shock and am now halfway through Millenium Shock.

After that it's Asylum, Empire Of Death, Zeta Major and Face Of The Enemy.

Emily- The only reason you're wanting us all to reread our collections is so we can post more on the novels board! You do realise there is no prize on here for the most board posts?

Oh, watch out for Zeta Major. If I remember rightly, it's bloody awful.

Emily- The only reason you're wanting us all to reread our collections is so we can post more on the novels board!

Well, YEAH.

It's not like we'd be rereading 'em for FUN...

You do realise there is no prize on here for the most board posts?

Maybe I'll announce a prize. It won't really matter what it IS, as I'll award it to myself every year, rather in the manner of Justin Richards commissioning himself to write all those books...

Oh, watch out for Zeta Major. If I remember rightly, it's bloody awful.

You remember un-rightly. Zeta Major is second only to Festival of Death in actually being a WORTHWHILE PDA...

I was indeed remembering un-rightly; must have been thinking of a different one. Apparently this was my reaction to Zeta Major:

"I just finished my second DW book and I have to say I found this one a bit boring, especially the bits with Nyssa, but then I never did like her much." (Sorry, Tim.)

That's okay, Mandy. To each their own.

Well, I hope Emily is happy. She was complaning of very little activity in the novels boards.

I wrapped up Millenium Shock last night and I am now into Asylum.

Well, I hope Emily is happy. She was complaning of very little activity in the novels boards.

Very happy! Keep it up! And...you ever thought of reading any exciting new Who books...*?

*Obviously the Moderator can accept no moral or legal responsibility if any previously unread Who book turns out...um...NOT to be very exciting.

I tried to read the New Who books, but they're just a bit too juvenile to be really good. That's probably why I liked the darker ones best--more adult.

I didn't necessarily mean new series books, more ANY book he hadn't actually read before.

Still, now you mention it, it IS a shame that when New Who finally launched another range alongside the NSAs, it was the even-more-childish 2-in-1 books.

Still, the 'adult' Who books very seldom managed to successfully combine adultness with Who-ness - the sex n'violence usually seemed gratuitous and shoehorned in from a completely different universe.

Anyway, some new Torchwood novels have just been announced - no doubt THEY'LL be adult enough for you...

Adult or no, I don't like Torchwood enough to read the books.

DON'T LIKE TORCHWOOD ENOUGH TO READ THE BOOKS!

Look, you can't afford to be so picky! There are only thirty-one years of Who! What are you going to fill the REST of your life with?

Who isn't dead yet. I daresay I've got a few more seasons in store before the BBC loses its mind again and cancels it.

Who isn't dead yet.

Yeah, just keep reminding me of that. It feels like EONS till Easter.

Not long now.

Well, that's it folks. I have finished reading all twelve of my Original Who books.

Who's going next

Not long now.

It IS long!

And what's worse, it's ONLY SEVEN EPISODES!

Well, that's it folks. I have finished reading all twelve of my Original Who books.

Who's going next

Yes *glares around in a threatening manner* who IS going next?

Maybe I can be persuaded to read another of the New Who stories. Given I like adult themes or humor, which one would you recommend?

For humour - probably Only Human or Shining Darkness.

For adultness - definitely The Eyeless, followed by Prisoner of the Daleks. Maybe Nuclear Time could be considered adultish (if not particularly enjoyable) on the grounds that I didn't understand a word of what was going on so I doubt many rug-rats would.

I've already read Shining Darkness, Eyeless, and Prisoner of the Daleks. I'll look at the others on Amazon.

Oh yes, so you did...

Winner Takes All is amusing, but in a VERY light way. Ditto for Last Dodo. (Though what you REALLY want is Jac Rayner's Benny book, The Glass Prison - hilarious AND darkly adult.)

Stealers of Dreams definitely has its funny moments.

I seem to remember some people on lesser sites finding Wooden Heart deep and meaningful just like the author obviously intended, but you're not thick enough to be fooled by it for a moment.

To whomever goes next: Have fun.

I've read Last Dodo, too. Guess I'll give Winner Takes All and Stealers of Dreams a try then.

Expanding on my belief that Emily hates the novels with a passion- let's continue with an update from the Eleventh Doctor-

Heart Of Stone- "A 'plot' consisting of getting chased by a lump of rock is excruciatingly dragged on for two hundred pages"

Death Riders- "Boring and pointless, as befits a thrilling new series premiered by Justin Richards."

The Good, The Bad, And The Alien- "The least boring but most condescending of the disastrous 2-in-2 books."

System Wipe- "If this book hadn't reduced me to a state of boredom indistinguishable from catatonia, I might be getting RATHER ANNOYED."

Dead Of Winter- "This runs out of plot long before it runs out of words"

The Way Through The Woods- "A brief and mildly enjoyable read, albeit one that totally screws up the Laws of Time." (Oooh, almost a compliment there...)

Hunter's Moon- "the book's boring and stupid and way too long"

Oh dear....

Hey! Is it MY fault they're rubbish? As it happens, I made it PERFECTLY CLEAR that I thoroughly enjoyed Dead of Winter despite its faults (YOU try reading it and then telling me it had enough plot) and I was (unbelievably sad person that I am) genuinely delighted when it looked as if I might be able to give all three of the latest books the thumbs-up.

Honestly, I WANT to love these books. They have the magic words on the cover. And, in a triumph of hope over expectation, I'm already looking forward to the next batch...

...Urk! Hang on a sec...*Checks Amazon* Yup, Johnny-Morris-does-Weeping-Angels and co are coming out in July, the next bunch of Ruin-my-life-with-2-piles-of-••••-in-1 aren't out till September.

Ooh-ooh! Can I please do the summary for the Weeping Angels book?

Course you can. Providing this doesn't result in a MONTHS-long delay, obviously.

Hey is it MY fault if I have to get the book from overseas (or pay a ridiculously huge price in the local bookstore)? I might see if I can download it to my kindle. That might help.

Ok- It'll be delivered to my Kindle on the day of release so you shouldn't have to wait too long...

hopefully....

Sorry, didn't mean to make you do something drastic like BUYING the thing. I'd've been happy to wait for a review for a few weeks after I'd got the book, just not for months and months.

I see sales of Kindle-books have overtaken the real thing on Amazon. And some SJA books have been published in this format ONLY. Quite what this will mean for people like me who a) LIKE dead trees (Vashta Nerada fears notwithstanding) and b) only ever get their literature second-hand or from libraries is starting to seriously worry me.

What it means is you should invest in one- that way you can get the books and they won't fill up unnecessary space on your shelf. In time, libraries will probably also find a way for you to borrow the kindle edition as well.

I may defend turntables, but I strongly support Kindles as well. Book lending is already in the works. It might even be possible already with libraries since the Kindle reads formats other than its native proprietary one. I know many libraries have e-book lending, though since I don't live in an English-speaking country I've never bothered to look into it.

I don't much care for them. They need power, you can't see as much text on the page as on a book, the page turning function is too slow, and you can't resell the book afterwards. And I hear they're a bit delicate.

The new version of the Kindle has a very quick page turn. Also, you can adjust how big or small the print size is.

Don't get me wrong, I love the look and feel of a genuine book but it is a really convenient thing to have when you need to carry several books around or, if you're like my mum, you do a lot of long-distance flights. They are also a lot cheaper than regular books.

OR if you're an expat and it takes two weeks for international orders to reach you.

And as for needing power, yes, but come on. The battery lasts a month.

The e-readers are getting better, but the font thing and page turning are the major things holding me back. And I'd still be wondering in the back of my mind when was the last time I charged it.

I don't usually find them cheaper than used books on Amazon, but it depends on the book and how long it's been out. Availability can be an issue too, although less so these days.

The Kindle edition of Phil's X-Philes Guide (yes, I bought it) is $9.99. A used copy is .01.

They do sound good for traveling though. It's a pain carrying books.

Well, the one-event-book-a-year thing is turning into AT LEAST as great a fiasco as the 2-in-1s. BOTH are failing to live up to the EXTREMELY LOW standards of the NORMAL New Series Adventures, and at least the 2-in-1s have the excuse of being for younger readers, AND of not costing more than the average African would earn in a fortnight.

Terraphiles is a godawful pile of **** by ANY standards, of course, but, irritatingly, The Silent Stars Go By might actually have got AWAY with being a boring lump of ultra-trad if it wasn't marketed as being so •••• special and costing THIRTEEN QUID!! and claiming to be by a 'proper' author when we all know Dan Abnett's the guy who churns out Torchwood stuff.

And the most irritating thing of all...the two hardbacks in this 'series' don't even MATCH on the shelf! Stars is way smaller! (I'm sorry. But when there's nothing INSIDE the •••• book to hold one's attention one tends to obsess about the little things. And as I have no intention of opening either of them EVER AGAIN the way they LOOK will henceforth be the only thing about them that actually matters.)

Still, no doubt all will be forgiven if they give me a stupid-expensive-big-hardback with Eccy's face on it one day...

or a giant blow-up doll....

"or a giant blow-up doll...."

(Chief Wiggum): "Make sure it's a woman though, 'Cause one time I..."

I don't think a giant blow-up doll of Eccy would do me much good. At least once I'd finished sticking pins in it in a voodoo ritual...

NO NSAs this year! (According to a Tweet from the BBC Books person, anyway.) Just stupid 2-in-1s and a Quick Read and an overpriced event-book-by-'proper'-author. That's outrageous! Just when the NSAs had actually got GOOD!

DWM's celebrating-10-years-of-the-NAs issue 305, in 2001:

'The [NA] novels pushed the darker Doctor concept to the absolute limit' - I'm not so sure, I didn't FEEL as pushed as during the Colin Baker era.

'Unlike most other TV tie-in merchandise, Doctor Who books can only survive on their own merit; they can't afford to alienate potential readers and thus, as Morris says, "that they still prosper must be a testament to their quality"' - or a testament to how many starved Who fans were out there, prepared to put up with ANYTHING to get their fix before The Glorious Return...

SO now let us return to episode 3 of "Emily hates (most) of the novels"...

Touched By An Angel- "It was great! (Give or take its unconvincing and repetitive claims that the universe is at stake)" (I love it how she can't just say it was great and leave it- nope has to bag it out in the same sentence)

Paradox Lost- "A tedious waste of time from an author who obviously thinks Who = running away from rubbish monsters."

Borrowed Time- "Intelligent AND fun - more from this Naomi Alderman person, please." Oh wow- a RINGING endorsement!!! Is Emily getting soft in her old age?

Sightseeing In Space- Terminal Of Despair- "Nicking a monster from Red Dwarf is, embarrassingly, the best thing a 2-in-1 Who book has managed."
- The Web In Space- "Something of a pointless bore" (Funny- that's how I describe the final three seasons of Tom Baker's era)

Alien Adventure- The Underwater War- " Look, I regard kids as half-witted sub-humans too, but even I wouldn't condescend to them THIS much."
- Rain Of Terror- "The least godawful of the 2-in-1s, no doubt due to blatantly ripping off Planet of the Dead." (Translation- it $ucks but not as much as the others)

The Silent Stars Go By- "Thirteen quid for this dreary pile of ultra-trad - are the BBC taking the mickey?"

Monstrous Missions- Terrible Lizards- "Tedious trekking through a tedious jungle with a tedious dinosaur attacking every time the extremely slight plot needs a boost."
- Horror Of The SPace Snakes- "Two stories in a row where the aliens just want a home...it should feel refreshing instead of a bit pointless."

Step Back In Time- Extra Time- "surprisingly successful for what I was expecting to be my worst nightmare – a 2-in-1 about sport." (Yup, she's gone soft)

- The Water Thief- "Yes, it's TWO mildly enjoyable 2-in-1s in a row!" (Someone has clearly hacked into Emily's account on here....possibly Mick Lewis...)

Hey, don't shoot the messenger...I just tell it like it is. YOU try reading the 2-in-1s if you think I'm being unfair...

Gallifrey Base:

'I remember reading once, possibly in DWM or the fanzine Skaro, that many NA fans believed the books to be the definitive version of Doctor Who, and that the TV series, all of it, was just merely leading up to the range, setting the scene if you will.'

What a FABULOUS way of being in denial during TSLABYOD! Why didn't I think of that??

DWM's week in the life of Stephen Cole when he was running the books isn't exactly a riveting read. 'I'm often reminded of that repeated lament from the cast and crew of the show itself: "we could've done it so much better if there had only been more time...' - did it not occur to you to DO LESS BOOKS? One a month would have been QUITE sufficient.

'I intend to include a story that's not included in the book version of Short Trips, as I feel it will be good fun to listen as the comforting voice of a well-loved Who star tells you a story you have no preconceptions of...' - and not in any way to FORCE fans to buy the Short Trips tape as well as the book?

'I think people realise that Doctor Who is more fun than ever' - can you IMAGINE the depths of denial you'd have to sink to to come up with THAT line during TSLABYOD?

OK, what the ****?

Gallifrey Base:

BBC Books are to release a special book inspired by this weekend's episode, The Angels Take Manhattan; The Angel's Kiss is a 112 page novella written by Justin Richards, and is the first book in the range to be published that has been written from the perspective from one of the show's characters:

Melody Malone not only runs her own agency, she also happens to be the author of a successful series of novels, featuring one Melody Malone.

The book will only be available electronically, and is published on 4th October 2012, a few days after the episode's premiere.

Weren't bits of The Last Dodo written from Martha's perspective? How did they keep this secret? Well, it needn't think it'll get its own section - Really Miscellaneous Books will just have to do - does it even HAVE the Eleventh Doctor in it? And do electronic-only books COUNT? There ought to be a LAW against them...it was bad enough with a couple of SJAs and in THOSE cases I could always just WATCH THE EPISODE...I know I was moaning about the lack of novels this year but what with this, Wheel of Ice and Exodus Code I'm starting to think a NO-BOOKS policy would have been JUST FINE, thanks...

Maybe you'll just have to buy an e-reader?

But even when (and yes, it's 'when' not 'if') I've succumbed to this Evil From Before The Dawn Of Time, I'll still want my WHO books in dead-tree form, so I can gloat at them on my shelves...

"BBC Books are to release a special book inspired by this weekend's episode, The Angels Take Manhattan; The Angel's Kiss is a 112 page novella written by Justin Richards"

Nice to see Justin Richards adding a new carriage to his gravy train.

Never was a truer word spoken.

Still, I've got to get a Kindle NOW, haven't I? The whole of The Angels Take Manhattan was basically an advert for this...well, I can hardly call it a BOOK...

Be thankful that it never occurred to Justin Richards to commission himself to write the book that Mr Skinner is working on in 'Love & Monsters'.

Ooh, yes!

'That's the last time you ride the ghost train, Johnny Fransetta. Now say your prayers!'

Want! Want NOW!

Hmm. The BBC is to reprint one book per Doctor for the fiftieth anniversary.

1 - Ten Little Aliens - Well, Witch Hunters is far more popular and Time Travellers more intelligent, but it's OK, I suppose.

2 - Dreams of Empire - Yeah, best of a bad lot, I suppose.

3 - Last of the Gadarene - Godawful pile of •••• but SOME cretins love it, and you can't say it doesn't capture the spirit of the Pertwee era, at least of the really rubbish Pertwee stories like Claws of Axos and Death to the Daleks.

4 - Festival of Death - YES!

5 - Fear of the Dark - Well, if you leave aside the excellent Zeta Major for no readily apparent reason, it's no worse than the other piles of Fifth Doctor wastes-of-space.

6 - Players - If you leave aside the very-mildly-amusing Synthespians, it's no worse etc etc...

7 - Remembrance of the Daleks - GOD it must be embarrassing to ADMIT to not having produced a single Seventh Doctor original novel worth the trees it'd take to reprint. Still, sensible choice, if not as sensible as that wonderful Fenric novelisation.

8 - EarthWorld - A fun and quite understandable choice, were it not for the existence of Alien Bodies and Father Time.

9 - Only Human - YES!

10 - Beautiful Chaos - Definitely one of the better ones, just not the BEST.

11 - The Silent Stars Go By - You're KIDDING me! The Eleventh Doctor novels have, against all reason, experience and expectation, produced THREE ENORMOUSLY ENJOYABLE BOOKS. (Dead of Winter, Touched By An Angel, Borrowed Time.) THIS is a tedious pile of mediocrity.

Gods, couldn't they have PUT IT TO A VOTE, or something?

Just be thankful they aren't reprinting "Rags" as a way of welcoming Mick Lewis as Moffat's replacement....

I am duly thankful that I'll be spared having to take action that would almost certainly result in a long spell in jail...though if my defence lawyer made the jury read Rags I MIGHT get let off...

Dave Stone in DWM: 'Doctor Who is a genre in its own right...there's space within it to do anything you want. We don't get to look inside the Doctor's head, much, and the way around that is to show how he impacts upon the worldview of others. The effort goes into the construction of those worldviews, and delineating the effects of that Doctorial anomaly. The quintessential Doctor Who story isn't about how the Doctor did this, and then he did that...it's about writing the best western, or historical romance, or hard SF novel. And then a stranger comes to town...'

Hmm. Actually I'm sure I remember reading in DWM a few weeks ago that a good Who story HAD to be about what the Doctor did...

Jonathan Morris in DWM, re the EDAs:

'With only the TV Movie to work from...these novels were forced to be rather formulaic efforts, with only...The Scarlett Empress bringing something fresh to the table' - sorry, that magical gibberish was FRESH while ALIEN BODIES was FORMULAIC??

'It didn't help that in taking over the books, the BBC had alienated the fan base that the Virgin novels had cultivated, a problem exacerbated by Virgin continuing to publish its own rival range...with Bernice Summerfield...The BBC Doctor Who range couldn't help looking like the poor relations' - well, the fan base seemed a LOT happier to start buying EDAs and PDAs than Benny Adventures...

'Particularly as a couple of years earlier, Virgin Books had boasted a novel by...Russell T Davies and a short story by...Steven Moffat' - well, QUITE. THAT was Virgin's only claim to success. ONE book and ONE short story by GOOD AUTHORS.

ME (in SJA: Death of the Doctor): I WAS planning on being the last human on Earth clinging to bits of dead tree, but...this is SUCH a fun contraption. Albeit one that would charge £2.99 for a book I'd get free from a library and then second-hand from a charity shop a few years later for a quid...

Right. Well, the e-versions (i.e. the ONLY versions) of Death of the Doctor and Nightmare Man are now £4.99 so they can go chuck themselves in an acid bath. OVER MY DEAD BODY am I coughing up that much money for a dead-tree novelisation, let alone a wishy-washy non-existent version. And to think, I only GOT a Kindle for my birthday so I could get my hands on them! Ah well, there's always The Angel's Kiss and Devil in the Smoke, which, at £1.71 each, are...well, I won't say 'reasonable' till I've READ 'em but hey, anything with Madam Vastra in it...

Also, 'Penguin Books are to publish a new series of ebooks in their Puffin range for children to tie with Doctor Who's 50th Anniversary. The series will consist of eleven short stories published electronically, with the first released on 23rd January featuring a tale about the First Doctor; each subsequent incarnation will then be published on the 23rd of each month thereafter until the Eleventh Doctor's adventure on the anniversary itself.' - BUT - bwahaha! - they made the mistake of admitting that they'll be bringing out a paperback collection of all the stories eventually, so exactly who'll cough up twenty-two quid for the e-versions I don't know...

so exactly who'll cough up twenty-two quid for the e-versions I don't know...

Anyone without the patience to wait for more than 5 minutes, which is the majority of young people these days.

'When it's going well, I actually like writing, too, but when it's bad it's murder, and I start kicking old ladies in the street, phoning up Jim Mortimore at 3am and screaming "die in the name of Terrance Dicks, unbeliever..."' - Paul Cornell in DWM. This writing-Who-books lark sounds more fun than I expected.

It's rather poignant to see his forecasts (in 1994) for his colleagues: 'Kate [Orman]'s going to be famous...Andy Lane...is heading for a career as a serious science-fiction writer. My mate Martin Day is on the way up...as is Dan O'Mahoney [sic] and of course I worship the ground on which Terrance Dicks walks with the classical verities he embodies' - the WHAT!

Well, at least he was spot-on that 'Gareth Roberts is a big talent too, a classic satarist in the English tradition who's got to find some outlet that exploits that'. Interesting that he didn't realise said outlet would be A NEW SERIES OF DOCTOR WHO, though.

"Well, at least he was spot-on that 'Gareth Roberts is a big talent too, a classic satarist in the English tradition who's got to find some outlet that exploits that'. Interesting that he didn't realise said outlet would be A NEW SERIES OF DOCTOR WHO, though."

I'm sure he was actually predicting Gareth's role in the BBC3 sitcom 'Grease Monkeys'.

Nonsense! How on Earth would any self-respecting Who Fan know anything about this 'Grease Monkeys' thing??

I'm fairly sure it was mentioned a few times in DWM.

'It was almost as if the books were in black and white before [Benny Summerfield] arrived - peopled by characters who worked fine on screen, but simply had too few dimensions for the page. Then with Bernice it all suddenly sprang into vivid colour' - Rebecca Levene in DWM. That's quite an insult to the first few NAs.

Have you read 'Timewyrm: Genesys'?!

Unfortunately, yes.

But people who aren't me tend to think highly of Timewyrm: Revelation and Nightshade and suchlike...

DWM (in 2007!): The last books in the 'Past Doctor' range were published in early 2005 - are there any plans to revive the series?

JUSTIN RICHARDS: The classic sections in the 'Monster' books have been very popular and sparked interest in the Old Days. So we're very aware that there is an interest and a legacy to build on. As soon as we've firmed up plans for exactly how we do that, I'll let you know!

I can't BELIEVE that a) he's stealing all the credit for a revival of interest in Classic Who (surely the DOCTOR WHO ON TV is reviving an interest in Doctor Who?!) or b) he's promising more PDAs which, six years later, have yet to materialise...

DWM article on the MAs:

Authors' Guidelines:

'Read Barry Letts' novelisation of his script of The Paradise of Death - it can be considered as a prototype Missing Adventure' - well, doesn't THAT explain how the MAs were doomed from Day One.

'The supply of gaps [between TV stories] is finite, the potential number of Missing Adventures is infinite' - guess we're lucky we just got 33 of 'em...

They want 'Original recipes, not reheated left-overs' - pity the article has just mentioned that 'the origins of Goth Opera lay in a comic strip proposal'...

'There should not be a story, for instance, set immediately after Earthshock which started with the Doctor, Tegan and Nyssa in a carefree party mood' - oh, I dunno, Davison at least has always struck me as being in a carefree party mood at the beginning of Time-Flight.

'We didn't have any real passion for the Missing Adventures range' - yeah, IT SHOWS. 'I guess that my heart was never in the Missing Adventures as much as it was in the New Adventures' Darvill-Evans whines. 'It was a struggle...The writers all did great work,* and we delivered a range of books which people obviously wanted to read, which is always very pleasing. However, what people seemed to want was simply a good pastiche of the television show - stories which could have been TV episodes - rather than something stretching and original' - Rebecca Levene. Oh, I SEE! It was all THE READERS' fault that the MAs were rubbish!

*I've READ these books, y'know! You're not gonna get away with lying so blatantly!

Where does one discuss the new series of books that kicks off with A Big Hand For the Doctor?

As somebody who doesn't usually read Who novels, I feel the need to warn people of my mistake in doing so this time.

Ooh, you READ 'em! I decided they were short stories (given that they're all gonna be published in one volume once all the e-books are out) and could therefore be discussed in the 'Novels: Miscellaneous: Short Stories' section but if I'm mistaken let me know and I can always create a 'Penguin Novellas' section or something.

On a whim, I was just going to buy the Third Doctor one, but I accidentally ordered the Second Doc one (Kindle edition). Although Amazon would refund my money, I decided to take the in-for-a-penny approach and ordered the First Doctor and started there.

I think the Short Stories section is fine unless more people read them and actual discussion ensues.

'This decision [to do Benny NAs] was, I suppose I must now admit, taken partly out of spite. I felt that we'd been messed around.' - Peter Darvill-Evans in DWM. I had to read TWENTY-THREE SODDING BOOKS because you felt SPITEFUL????

OK, one of them WAS Dead Romance so I shouldn't complain.

'There was little chance that the New Adventures could succeed for long without the Doctor Who brand and the Doctor. I had always planned that the New Adventures should be able to stand on their own feet and exist as a science fiction series without the Doctor - UH?

'However, I had never anticipated that such a range would have to compete with a rival series that had both the Doctor and the full backing of the BBC' - ah, I SEE.

Levene: '[We] were so bored of writing cover copy that we used to play games, and one of them was to insert into the cover text as many of a particular type of thing as we could' - books of the Bible in Eternity Weeps and Virgin erotic books in Dark Path, apparently. Well, *checks blurbs* I can certainly see what they're getting at when it comes to the Bible, but what the hell were the Virgin erotica books CALLED?

Moderator's Note: Moved from 'Ask the Matrix: Being a Fan' section:

"Most the novel discussions dried up around 2004-05. This was the exact time, more or less, we heard the show was going back into production."

It was also the exact time, more or less, that the book schedule dried up so that the range could be launched as lobotomised tie-ins. Admittedly this process had already begun under Justin Richards's reign of torpor, but surely the biggest problem was that the arrival of the new series gave Richards the opportunity to expunge the last few writers with any spark of life to them.

Ooh, how unfair! Why, it only took thirty New Series Adventures before Lance Parkin was commissioned, and a mere fifty-five before we got a Jonny Morris...

It was also the exact time, more or less, that the book schedule dried up so that the range could be launched as lobotomised tie-ins. Admittedly this process had already begun under Justin Richards's reign of torpor, but surely the biggest problem was that the arrival of the new series gave Richards the opportunity to expunge the last few writers with any spark of life to them.

Well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Once the show went back into production, the novels lost the creative freedom they had in the 90's. As far as canon goes, it's Doctor Who, the Sarah Jane Adventures, Torchwood (and MAYBE the K9 series), and nothing but.

The novels (and audios) have now been consigned to alternate realities.

I'm not sure why you mention "canon" out of the blue. Canon has no bearing on the matter on discussion. And I have Doctor Who novels on the bookshelf behind me*, so they very clearly still exist in this reality.

* No audios though. I have taste.

"The novels lost the creative freedom they had in the '90s." Holmes, you astound me! Not least because that's exactly what I just said. Which was, you know, when I was refuting your original point.

Now, it is beyond dispute that more people would rather waste their braincells on something like, say, 'The Name of the Doctor' than, say, something like 'The Adventuress of Henrietta Street'. This is in fact a double tragedy because the formers clearly had fewer brain cells to go round in the first place. What strikes me as perverse is your insistence that the latters need to shut up now because the formers are speaking, especially when one of the latters is *the editor of this board*.

"Why, it only took thirty New Series Adventures before Lance Parkin was commissioned, and a mere fifty-five before we got a Jonny Morris..."

Splitters!

And I have Doctor Who novels on the bookshelf behind me*, so they very clearly still exist in this reality.

Don't get smart mouthed with me, Kate. You know darn well I was talking about the plots of the novels, not the novels themselves.


Now, it is beyond dispute that more people would rather waste their braincells on something like, say, 'The Name of the Doctor' than, say, something like 'The Adventuress of Henrietta Street'. This is in fact a double tragedy because the formers clearly had fewer brain cells to go round in the first place. What strikes me as perverse is your insistence that the latters need to shut up now because the formers are speaking, especially when one of the latters is *the editor of this board*.

Kate, you wouldn't happen to be a lawyer (or a solicitor, as they call them over there), would you? You sure sound like one here.

Anyway, I am not suggesting Emily shut up about the novels, rather I am questioning WHY she keeps torturing herself by reading a medium she clearly hates. She has been ripping the novels to shreds, moaning about the plots and characters, etc. I merely said that if she hates them as much as she seems to here, don't read them.

Now if she was giving the novels glowing praise, I would probably feel differently, but she isn't.

rather I am questioning WHY she keeps torturing herself by reading a medium she clearly hates.

Whether or not she likes or hates the novels is beside the point. She clearly loves reviewing them or she would have stopped doing so long ago. I don't know anyone who puts so much enthusiasm in what they do unless they like doing it and care about it. And there are a few good reviews in there, so she's NOT tearing them ALL to shreds.

Brave heart, Emily.

Kate - Holmes, you astound me!
You really should have said Watson, not Holmes, as your post was closer to the tone used by the great detective when explaining to his poor, befuddled friend why the mud on the sleeve was important. ;-)

Watso... er, Tim - I am questioning WHY she keeps torturing herself by reading a medium she clearly hates.
She isn't. I don't recall seeing Emily post a single review of any of the Dr. Who Comics. (You're slacking, Emily! *cracks whip* ;-)

As far as canon goes, it's Doctor Who, the Sarah Jane Adventures, Torchwood (and MAYBE the K9 series), and nothing but.

The K9 series is canon OVER MY DEAD BODY. OK, so that applies to at least half the books and audios as well, but at least not to EVERY SINGLE MOMENT of them, unlike the Farting Fido.

The novels (and audios) have now been consigned to alternate realities.

The BBC certainly don't feel that way about their current range of novels (even if they just can't be bothered to produce many of 'em these days, just as they can't be bothered to produce many actual EPISODES, what the hell IS THEIR PROBLEM??).

* No audios though. I have taste.

No one with a full set of NAs can possibly have the right to boast about their good taste.

Now, it is beyond dispute that more people would rather waste their braincells on something like, say, 'The Name of the Doctor' than, say, something like 'The Adventuress of Henrietta Street'. This is in fact a double tragedy because the formers clearly had fewer brain cells to go round in the first place.

Personally I regard Name of the Doctor as a glowing TRIBUTE to the works of Lawrence Miles.

"Why, it only took thirty New Series Adventures before Lance Parkin was commissioned, and a mere fifty-five before we got a Jonny Morris..."

Splitters!

Ooh, why are they splitters?

She clearly loves reviewing them or she would have stopped doing so long ago.

God, I REALLY DO.

Dunno WHY, though.

And there are a few good reviews in there, so she's NOT tearing them ALL to shreds.

Yeah, it's just misfortunate that I've GOT to concentrate on the neglected novels at the moment, and it turns out there's a REALLY GOOD REASON why we were all neglecting them...

Brave heart, Emily.

Thank you!

I don't recall seeing Emily post a single review of any of the Dr. Who Comics. (You're slacking, Emily! *cracks whip* ;-)

Crack that whip all you like, Sunshine. I've gotta draw a line SOMEWHERE if I'm to retain any pretensions to sanity, and I draw it at those bloody comics.

Of course, it helps that Kate is so assiduous at discussing the moronic bits of paper. Were the comics section to be empty, I can't really answer for my actions.

'It didn't help that in taking over the books, the BBC had alienated the fan base that the Virgin novels had cultivated...The BBC Doctor Who range couldn't help looking like the poor relations' - Johnathan Morris in DWM.

That's odd, cos in ANOTHER DWM interview he's slagging off the oh-so-wonderful Virgin books: 'A complete betrayal of Doctor Who...no joie de vivre...written by authors trying to write their great science-fiction story rather than tell a Doctor Who story...Doctor Who with the Doctor Who bit taken out, an exercise in missing the point...'

Did like his view on that godawful EDA parallel-universe stuff, though: 'I did see a document explaining the subsequent "multiverse" arc which I read twice and didn't understand' (THIS from the writer of Flip-Flop and Festival of Death, both timey-wimey enough to make Moffat blanch!) 'I have what I like to call the "chip shop" test, whiich is that if an alien threat doesn't affect you going down the chip shop, then it's rubbish. I can't see how a collapsing multiverse will affect me going down the chip shop.'

Justin Richards, DWM, 2004: 'Rest assured, as Winston Churchill once said, that the current line of books will continue unabated, although the Eighth Doctor will obviously take a less prominent role now that his successor has been appointed' - did he KNOW how blatantly he was lying?

Justin Richards in DWM in 2004: 'The cutback to one a month was partly forced on us by our American distributor going bust, which meant we had a warehouse full of books and there wasn't physical space to store any more' - it just seems so utterly bizarre that Our Hero's adventures should have been curtailed for such a reason.

'...At a time when we needed people who normally worked on the novels to work on The Legend and The Dalek Survival Guide.' - even MORE bizarre thought. Even a fanatic such as myself doesn't consider that the universe NEEDED a Dalek Survival Guide, let alone that godawful Legend.

DWM interview:

Steve Cole: The problem with the Eighth Doctor...was that all of the authors had their own direction they wanted to pull in. If you were just doing a few books per year, that would be fine - you'd have time to work with the authors, as has happened with the Ninth Doctor novels...But there just wasn't time to make it as cohesive as it should have been.

Justin Richards: And you only had one hour of screen time to base it on, and no access to anybody who'd been involved in producing that to find out what they had intended to achieve.

Fair points, and come to think of it, it WAS amazing that the EDAs were as successful as they were, but...the OBVIOUS solution to Steve Cole's problems was just to go with Lawrence Miles's vision of the Eighth Doctor, that being several million times more interesting than anyone else's (and to be fair to Cole, he DID publish Interference, which Lawrence wrote without being commissioned, or indeed without even bothering to inform him. Though any Brownie points were wiped out by the betrayal that was The Ancestor Cell). Whereas Richards' 'solution' of wiping the Doctor's memories (PERMANENTLY!!) was...REALLY annoying.

Who's this Lawrence Miles that everyone keeps going on about?

He's the author of one New Adventure, two Benny New Adventures and four Eighth Doctor Adventures, in addition to the co-writer of the About Time series of Who reference books and the creator of the Faction Paradox series of novels/audios/comics etc spun off from the Who universe.

Basically, he's the best thing that happened to Who during TSLABYOD.

He's also the one who came up with ideas like:

The Time Lords fighting a massive, hideously destructive, losing War across the universe with an unstoppable time-active enemy.

Time Lords who reacted to their imminent losing of the War by becoming beings of pure thought.

The Master popping up just when the Doctor was assumed to be the sole survivor of said War.

The Doctor encountering his own remains from after he died in some future battle, and them having the potential to change everything.

The Doctor getting married.

Children who disappear into thin air as soon as you take your eyes off them.

The '70s, or was it the 80s' UNIT dating joke.

Voodoo-obsessed monsters in bone masks.

The idea that a child conceived in the TARDIS would be the next stage between human and Time Lord.

Jumping out of a window, plummeting to your death until saved by a parked-sideways TARDIS.

Etc etc etc...

(Of course, Lawrence tended to go FURTHER than New Who did with all the ideas they nicked from him. The Time Lords weren't at War with 'something rubbish like the Daleks.' The Doctor trying to stop an auction of his own corpse was considerably funnier than the GI jumping into his timestream. The Doctor destroying Gallifrey didn't just make him look a little lonely at times (easily cured by chips), it pumped poison from that dead world into his second heart...leading to said second heart having to be ripped out.)

Ah, thanks Emily.

Wouldn't he have grounds to sue for plagiarism, or something?

You'd think so. But his agent will never sue New Who - she's me.

Wouldn't he have grounds to sue for plagiarism, or something?

Could he? After all, Doctor Who was not something he himself created, rather it was something he was paying for the rights to write novels about (how do these contracts work). You can't sue over something that wasn't yours to begin with.

Doctor Who belongs to the BBC, Companions and monsters belong to whomever created them (for example, Johnny Byrne owned the rights to Nyssa, since he created her). Based on that, Miles would have no case here.

However, if Miles, in his books, created an original character, and copyrighted said character, that would be different. The BBC would have to pay him to use the character if they wanted to (and if they used the character without paying him, then he could sue them).

Well, I'm not a lawyer, but laws concerning intellectual property seem to be some of the most convoluted there is. I'm sure a good lawyer could attack the problem from many different angles. However, the point seems to be moot since Emily has no intention of persuing the matter.

he was paying for the rights to write novels about

Well, actually Virgin and the BBC were paying HIM to write novels.

(how do these contracts work)

Search me. Terry Nation had an excellent agent (Moffat's mother-in-law, •••• her) so HE got to keep the Daleks, despite the fact HE'd thought they had HANDS and practically EVERYTHING about their success was due to BBC employee Ray Cusick. Since then publishers/broadcasters seem to be a bit more careful about their 'rights'. Daniel O'Mahony didn't get a penny when Telos decided to spin-off his Who novella Cabinet of Light's Companions into their own series. But presumably he could use Emily and Lechasseur TOO, if he wanted. Lawrence got to keep various things he created for the Whoniverse, like Faction Paradox, though presumably the BBC could wheel 'em out too if they fancy it (or don't all rights revert to the author when the books haven't been republished for a couple of years?). The BBC have the right to the way K9 LOOKS whilst Baker n'Martin got everything ELSE about the mutt...or something...

Companions and monsters belong to whomever created them (for example, Johnny Byrne owned the rights to Nyssa, since he created her)

Virgin/the BBC/Big Finish SERIOUSLY need to go crawling to Byrne every time they want to turn Nyssa into a vampire/anti-matter monster/fiancee of Magnus Greel?

Well, Nyssa IS a special case, surely MOST Companions were deliberately created by the BBC rather than by the author of their first story (well, obviously me and Anthony Coburn's son drastically disagree on this particular issue) - whereas Nyssa and Jamie pretty-much accidentally got to tag along in the TARDIS.

However, if Miles, in his books, created an original character, and copyrighted said character, that would be different.

I don't think it's quite that clear-cut. I remember some American channel trying to buy the rights to do an American version of Sherlock, and then just deciding to do their own version without paying for any rights, and Sherlock producer (and Moffat's wife) saying that there was nothing copyrightable about a modern-day Holmes, but IF there were lots of Sherlockian touches like, um, text messages on screen or something, she could sue. I can't imagine she SERIOUSLY managed to copyright 'putting text messages on screen' so there's obviously some leeway...

Uh, Doctor Who writers get to keep their own copyright. The BBC wouldn't be able to use Faction Paradox in the new series without Lawrence's permission (in the books themselves is a different matter, but there would have been specific provision for that in the contract, hence the Time Hunter series). However, they can do a rubbish Faction knockoff safe in the knowledge that Lawrence a) would have to demonstrate that his copyright had been infringed and b) can't afford the lawyers they can.

But similarly, they can't prevent Lawrence from writing (and licensing) his own Faction Paradox novels.

Virgin/the BBC/Big Finish SERIOUSLY need to go crawling to Byrne every time they want to turn Nyssa into a vampire/anti-matter monster/fiancee of Magnus Greel?

Well, it would be his estate, as Mr. Byrne passed away a few years back, but yes. His estate owns the copyright to Nyssa, so whoever uses the character has to pay the estate.


I remember some American channel trying to buy the rights to do an American version of Sherlock, and then just deciding to do their own version without paying for any rights, and Sherlock producer (and Moffat's wife) saying that there was nothing copyrightable about a modern-day Holmes, but IF there were lots of Sherlockian touches like, um, text messages on screen or something, she could sue. I can't imagine she SERIOUSLY managed to copyright 'putting text messages on screen' so there's obviously some leeway...

Doesn't the Arthur Conan Doyle estate still hold a copyright to the Sherlock Holmes characters and such.

In 1988, Star Trek: TNG, in S2, made an episode called Elementary, My Dear Data, which used characters from the Holmes mythos (Data played Holmes). They thought the mythos was in the public domain.

However, after the episode aired, they were informed that the Doyle estate still owned the rights, and would have to be paid a fee if the characters were used again. TNG made a deal with the estate to use the characters again, in S6, for the episode Ship In A Bottle.

I assume anyone wanting to make a series about Sherlock Holmes would have to pay the Doyle estate. I guess The Moff has to for his own Sherlock Holmes series.

Doyle died in 1930. I think copyright extends 70 years after death which would mean the characters were in the public domain when the BBC series started.

Then there's the Malcolm Hulke line that "all you need is a good original idea - and it doesn't necessarily have to be your original idea".

But similarly, they can't prevent Lawrence from writing (and licensing) his own Faction Paradox novels

Yes, but they could prevent him from using the Doctor or any Doctor Who characters, the BBC owns, in said novels.

The Doyle estate holds a copyright on the final book in the Holmes canon and they use that to "insist" that people using Holmes pay a license fee whether the story uses elements from the final book or not.

There is currently a lawsuit on with the estate & a writer/editor/copyright lawyer who put together a book of Holmes stories that only used elements from the Public Domain Holmes stories.

However, the point seems to be moot since Emily has no intention of persuing the matter.

I'm gonna get him a proper agent one of these days. But there'll still be NO WAY he'd sue RTG Who - because he loves it as much as I do - OR Moffat Who - cos then he'd actually have to WATCH it...

they could prevent him from using the Doctor or any Doctor Who characters, the BBC owns, in said novels.

Hopefully they're just too thick to realise who and what the Evil Renegade, the Great Houses, their Homeworld and their timeships etc etc are...

He had Sontarans in the Faction Paradox Protocols audios, by the way - Bob Holmes's widow is VERY generous.

Keep thinking of things I accidentally left off the list of Lawrence's Ideas That New Who Nicked. 'Woman who's a TARDIS' is a biggie.

The Doyle estate holds a copyright on the final book in the Holmes canon and they use that to "insist" that people using Holmes pay a license fee whether the story uses elements from the final book or not.

For heaven's sake, the guy's been dead for over 75 years, end of. One of MY books is a Sherlock Holmes one. They'd better not try suing ME...

Keep thinking of things I accidentally left off the list of Lawrence's Ideas That New Who Nicked. 'Woman who's a TARDIS' is a biggie.
Well Lawrence did "Woman who's literally a TARDIS" while the series did "TARDIS is temporarily downloaded into a real woman's body", which is a different thing, a very different thing, its a different shark!

One of MY books is a Sherlock Holmes one. They'd better not try suing ME

You mean, Emily, you have a book that is NOT related to Doctor Who in any way, shape, or form!?!?

Satan: Man, it's getting cold in here!


Of course, Mr. Miles is free to reboot Faction Paradox. If he removes all references to the Whoniverse and its characters, the BBC's laywers can't touch him.

You mean, Emily, you have a book that is NOT related to Doctor Who in any way, shape, or form!?!?

I don't HAVE the book, I WROTE the book. Along with fifty others. None of which were Who-related, cos I'm simply UNWORTHY to write a Who book, or even a copyright-free rip-off type thing. Actually I couldn't think of ANYTHING original to write, which is why I ended up ripping off things that are SUPPOSED to be safely out of copyright, like 4,000-year-old legends AND SHERLOCK HOLMES.

Anyway, I've REPEATEDLY made the point that, whilst WATCHING Lesser Programmes certainly counts as INFIDELITY to Who, actually READING non-Who stuff is PERFECTLY ALLOWABLE. The written word does NOT come naturally to Our Raison d'Etre, as decades of NAs/MAs/PDAs/EDAs/NSAs have unfortunately proved.

If he removes all references to the Whoniverse and its characters, the BBC's laywers can't touch him.

As I was unsubtly hinting, he hasn't done anything of the sort.

Hope you get published, Emily. Believe me, it's not easy.

Oh, I wouldn't have written the •••• things without getting commissioned. (Wrote 'em without getting PAID, obviously.) See http://www.piperbooks.co.uk/free-resources-MRI-books.htm. If you have any illiterate friends or relatives, anyway.

So. During our Fiftieth Anniversary Year and The Eleventh Doctor's Final Year, the BBC graced us with...THREE WHOLE NOVELS. Presumably, with Matt DEAD and Capaldi not gracing our screens until Autumn and the BBC really not getting the hang of the whole TIME TRAVEL concept, we're not getting any more for another nine months at least. This is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. And I speak as someone who can be pretty much guaranteed to hate any novels that do appear.

One thing I'll say about the Doctor Who novels, at least they spark lively discussions.

I've given up posting in the Star Trek novels discussions for one reason, I was talking to myself. Only one other person posted there, the now banished Andre, and all he did was Copy And Paste stuff from the Memory Alpha Trek Wiki.

People are still reading the Trek novels (otherwise they wouldn't keep making them), but they clearly don't come here anymore.

SOMETIMES they spark lively discussions. And sometimes you'll plough your way through the entire godawful pile of •••• (for the SECOND TIME! Why the hell didn't I just do in-depth nitpicking in the FIRST place!) and no one will have a single word to say about it. Which is, of course, the only sensible reaction to these novels.

Since I don't have many of the novels, I can't nitpick them

You can nitpick other people's nits, though...

Or just acquire more novels. SIX MONTHS till Capaldi hits our screens...IF we're lucky...so it's not like you have anything BETTER to do with your life at the moment...

The novels are long out of print and I have neither the time nor the inclination to track them down.

The novels are long out of print

Not all of 'em. Another batch of totally-not-the-ones-I'd've-chosen books have just been reprinted under some 'Monster Collection' banner. (I mean, Prisoner of the Daleks, OK. Touched by an Angel, YES. But the others barely scrape average, and Corpse Marker is boring as hell.)

and I have neither the time nor the inclination to track them down.

There's this thing called eBay that means one no longer has to scour every charity shop in the country hoping to get lucky.

Of course, I can hardly deny that your inclination is the right one. Though give your Who Fan Fanatical Completist instincts a few more years and they'll probably wear you down the way they did me...

I don't do auctions, even online ones.

In Doctor Who: The Encyclopedia by Gary Russell in the entry on Professor Bernard Quatermass he wrote:
“Fictional scientist who Doctor Malcolm Taylor had named a unit of measurement after.” [in Planet of the Dead]

Somehow I don’t think that since Russell is a long time Doctor Who fan that he had forgotten that Quatermass had been implied to be a real person within the world of Doctor Who when his first name Bernard, but not his last Quatermass, and the British Rocket Group got mentioned in Remembrance of the Daleks (1988).
Then again it perhaps did not matter whether Russell had thought of Quatermass as a real or fictional person in the world of Doctor Who as The Encyclopedia was written within the parameters of what was shown and said in Doctor Who between 2005 and 2011.

What is curious about the Quatermass entry is that it is in the B section under Bernard Quatermass, Professor rather than in the Q section under the Quatermass name.

'I think I was writing back in the day for a fan audience who really liked the connection of things. We all plastered our books full of musical references, and tiny Doctor Who continuity jokes, and things like that, and I kind of think that goes off really quickly' - Paul Cornell in DWM (re toning down Love and War for its audio release, twenty years later). Well, the stupid musical references would no doubt 'go off' pretty fast, but Doctor Who continuity never will...

As I said elsewhere, I don't nitpick the Target novelizations, only the actual aired stories.

Reason: The events in the aired stories are what we all saw and experienced.

On the other hand, the Target novelizations are only one person's (the author's) interpretation of the actual event. Therefore, they may not match up with what the rest of us remember.

The original novels, however, are a whole different story...

the Target novelizations are only one person's (the author's) interpretation of the actual event. Therefore, they may not match up with what the rest of us remember.

Unless we're INCREDIBLY OLD (i.e. born several years prior to 1963) the Target novelisations will be EXACTLY what we've all experienced and remembered from our childhoods, that time when Who sank its fangs into our subconsciouses in a way that only the very best stories have achieved since then...

I mean, we all KNOW that there's NO WAY that OUR DOCTOR would EVER have let those political prisoners ROT on the Moon for the REST OF THEIR LIVES, right?

Right...??

Let's update "Emily hates the novels"....

When we last left our illustrious moderator she was nearly at the end of the eleventh Doctor range....

Dark Horizons:"Enjoyable but riddled with minor inaccuracies and major implausbilities."

Plague of the Cybermen: "Stunningly unoriginal and seriously padded"

The Dalek Generation: "Got through Shroud of Sorrow in a day. THIS took three weeks."

Shroud of Sorrow: "A zany, unusually enjoyable romp...till somewhere around the dimensionally-transcendental Clown Car I stopped laughing and started cringing."

Onto Doc 12.....

Silhouette: "Plodding by-the-numbers Who with zero sense of Capaldi-ness"

Crawling Terror: "no cliché had been left unturned"

The Blood Cell: "Typical James Goss - bubbling happily along in a plot-light manner till a soggy mess of a finale."

To be continued....

Hey, I thoroughly enjoyed Blood Cell. It's not MY fault if the ending was rubbish.

And you see what YOU make of Shroud's Clown Car...

About Time: 'One thing to look for very closely is the effort that goes into making it seem that McGann is taller than McCoy or Ashbrook. That publicity photo of the Seventh Doctor handing off the TARDIS keys [sic] to Eight entailed the latter standing on a box. Arguably, this trickery altered the perception of the new Doctor's character...the book writers would regard him as a tall, "resolute" Doctor when he's probably better suited as a short, weird one.' - I don't remember ANY EDA authors regarding Eight as tall OR resolute...?

TARDIS Eruditorum: 'Doctor Who has always been TV for people who read...That's why the Target novelizations happened, frankly. It's a fair part of why the series was, unlike any comparable cancelled TV series, able to sustain itself for over a decade as a series of novels. A real part of that is that Terry Nation embedded a strangely textual sensibility into the program from almost the start. Just by writing stories that appeal so heavily to readers of science fiction instead of viewers, he played a large part in instilling an aesthetic of literacy into the program' - thanks Terry! Er, is this TRUE?

I'm sure if Phillip says it's true thaen it IS true.

I also doubt that this thinking was at the front of Mr. Nation's mind when writing a story to a tight schedule.

I'm sure if Phillip says it's true thaen it IS true.

What, even after he claimed that 'Ian views the Doctor as a potential competitor for Barbara'?!

Er, is this TRUE?

No, it's utter drivel. Or, more politely, it's an entirely subjective impression imposed on Nation's story in the absence of any evidence either in the show itself or in our extensive understanding of the circumstances of its writing, which he's then spun into a total non-sequitur.

There is probably a connection (or influence) between the existence Target books and Doctor Who's comparatively literary-oriented fandom but its almost certainly not down to a bald series of cause and effect proceeding consciously from the fundament of Terry Nation.

Apart from anything else, he doesn't seem to mention (or perhaps isn't aware) that just as lots of planets have a north so lots of TV series have novelisations, and there was nothing particularly remarkable or revealing about Doctor Who getting its own range, even in 1964.

Who didn't get a RANGE in '64, it got three ignored novels (at least one of which is unreadable).

And SURELY the Lesser Programmes' dead-tree rip-offs, er, spin-offs, can't BEGIN to compare to the quantity of Who books? We've got everything from Doctor Who In An Exciting Adventure With The Daleks to Rags, for heaven's sake.

Justin Richards in DWM in 2005: 'The Past Doctor books have a future, I'm sure...We're taking the time to make sure we get it right' - in retrospect, taking a good ten years to publish two novels is possibly carrying your perfectionism a little far. Especially when one of 'em is boring rubbish and the other is...well...it's fine. Really.

'We're certainly not abandoning [old Doctors] - Monsters and Villains makes it clear to the new audience that there were other Doctors who had exciting and wacky and fun adventures...The Legend Continues fills in even more of those gaps for new fans...' - thank heavens you've overcome your natural modesty to promote all your other books, without which millions would dwell in hideous ignorance of those wacky old Doctors!

Re The Shooting Scripts: 'These scripts are just so well-written that you don't need to novelise them - it's all there, beautifully and evocatively written and it would be a shame to dilute that' - I agree with every word, but with hindsight it feels like a slap in the face for all those SJA scripts that DID get novelised...

Doctor Who: The History Collection:

A slightly less insane than usual choice of books to reprint.

Human Nature - excellent. Albeit rather CONFUSING for New Who Fans.

Dead of Winter - enormously enjoyable (give or take the typical Goss ending).

The English Way of Death - I've never been a massive fan of the Gareth Roberts MAs (or any other MAs. Obviously.) but everyone else WAS and *gazes adoring at The Lodger and co* they were obviously spot-on about his brilliance so what do I know.

The Witch Hunters - again, loads of people find this an all-time classic so who am I to argue?

OK, sorry, I'm gonna argue. A previous batch of these reprints did the Remembrance novelisation when - gods have mercy on all our souls - they couldn't find a single novel starring the Seventh Doctor worth reprinting. So why not go for a Target again? Say, The Romans?

The Stone Rose - you're kidding me. I'm not some purist demanding unsullied-by-aliens historicals but I draw the line at that godawful magic GENIE under ANY circumstances. Peacemaker would have been preferable. Krillitane Storm. Maybe even Ghosts of India. (Not GOOD, mind you. But BETTER.)

Amorality Tale - I guess you just tossed a coin between this and Wages of Sin. Fair enough.

Shadow in the Glass - yeah, it definitely has the edge over Blue Box and Players.

The Roundheads - alright, I can see where you're coming from. You decided, albeit for no particular reason, that Roundheads was slightly less godawful than World Game or Dying in the Sun. Plus being a much purer historical. But honestly...twelve Doctors and only eight books...you could have skipped Troughton altogether. Why not replace him with McGann? Now Adventuress of Henrietta Street - THERE'S a historical for you.

TARDIS Eruditorum:

'There were three sustained continuations of Doctor Who between 1989 and 2005: The Virgin New Adventures, the BBC Books Eighth Doctor Adventures, and the Big Finish Audios. Two of these proved to be such major influences on the new series they might as well be considered de facto canon. The other was BBC Books...[Its] writers were not tapped to write for the new series, ideas from the BBC books line were (with one major exception) not really imported into the new series, and the aesthetic of the new series has very, very little to do with what came out of BBC Books.'

Haaang on, the 'major exception' was PRETTY MAJOR. For ten years the New Series has had TIME WAR! running through it like 'Brighton' through a stick of rock and THAT was TOTALLY a BBC Books thing.

And plenty of BBC Books writers have written for the New Series. They just happened to write for Virgin first.

And I've never really spotted a New Adventure aesthetic in New Who. Sure, it has oodles of sex and violence and relationships and suchlike, but it does it all with such grace and humour and poignancy. The exact opposite of the NAs having Ace incessantly scream blue murder at the Doctor whilst shagging anything that moved.

(And what the hell has BIG FINISH contributed? I know Russell T God claimed that Rose would never have existed if not for Charley Pollard, but surely no one BELIEVES him?!)

'My style of prose is absolutely appalling' - Iain McLoughlin may regret being QUITE that honest in DWM in the days BEFORE he co-wrote (Time Hunter novella) Echoes (he's right, it is), (Telos novella) Blood and Hope (not very good but let's face it, most Who-related books aren't), and (Companion spin-off) The Coming of the Queen (hey, I quite enjoyed it).

Plus a few short stories that were drivel, but then Who short stories almost invariably are...

DWM:

'In fact, several ideas submitted to and rejected by Virgin eventually became BBC novels' - and doesn't THAT tell you everything you need to know about BBC novels...

'The intention had been for Ace to get rid of all her teenage angst by leaving for a period, and then Peter would bring her back in Deceit as an older and wiser person' - ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

'To be honest, once the Missing Adventures started there were so many books we had to commission each month that it was a struggle sometimes to find anything that was suitable...The plates were constantly spinning and you didn't have time to step back and think what design of plate you wanted, just any plate would do as long as it would spin' - and you didn't see this COMING?

DWM: 'Richards also confirmed that the new series logo will appear on all of the Ninth Doctor publications, but that it is too early to say whether the "old series" logo would continue on the Past Doctor Adventures beyond 2005...' - oh how sweet and innocent! DWM didn't think to ask whether the PAST DOCTOR ADVENTURES would continue beyond 2005! (Give or take a substandard overpriced hardback every four years or so...)

"The plates were constantly spinning and you didn't have time to step back and think what design of plate you wanted, just any plate would do as long as it would spin"

I'm re-reading all the DW books (all those I previously bought - now with cracked spines and falling out pages - which turned up a while ago as PDFs somewhere on the internet) on my Kindle and am well aware that 'The Pit' is approaching. Again.

I used to graph all the novel ratings from radw (should dig those ratings out and archive it online) and you could see the ones where the plate not just wouldn't spin but had been treated Greek style and hurled into the floor to explode into a thousand badly written fragments.

I really should see where 'Rags' fell in that list...

Two pieces of advice to help you maintain your sanity: a) SHARE YOUR PAIN! Ripping a book to pieces on Nitcentral is deeply therapeutic AND ensures that, with its entry nicely up-to-date, I can put off rereading that particular godawful pile of •••• for another few years! and b) just SKIP the Mick Lewises. Life is too short and would be even if you were immortal. And once you've skipped the Mick Lewises, you're over the fanatical completist phase so you can also skip The Pit, Parasite and The King of Terror...

Companion Piece:

'The Doctor Who New Adventures' central narrative and thematic obsession is with the Doctor's influence over the lives and stories of his companions' - oh. *Scratches head* Yeah, I suppose it is.

I don't see why that makes 'Oh No It Isn't!'s positioning of Benny as the controlling force in her own narrative...a direct refutation of the 61 New Adventures that preceded it' - after all, Benny's capable of running her own series because the Doctor trained her. Alright, the 'Before' and 'After' pictures aren't quite as drastic as in the case of, say, Mickey-the-Idiot, but still...(Plus, she spent most of the book being brainwashed into thinking she's Snow White and Dick Whittington and stuff, so not exactly the mistress of her own destiny...)

'Certain themes are run into the ground; in particular, the Doctor's untrustworthiness and manipulative nature are so stressed that one suspects the idea was new and startling to every writer who worked on the series. His behaviour is frequently challenged ringingly in one volume, only for everything to be reset to status quo in the next' - though to be fair, the 'status quo' in the early Ace n'Benny years was for Ace to be shrieking 'Toe-rag!' while brandishing a large gun in the Doctor's face - 'In-text explanations for this cycle of outrage and acceptance - not to mention the question of why any companion willingly travels with the Doctor more than once - suggest outright mind control, making for uncomfortable reading at best' - yeah, but isn't even an uncomfortable explanation better than NO explanation?

In the Blood is 'BBC Books' only currently scheduled Doctor Who novel of the year' - DWM. I never DREAMT that we'd be deprived of our three rubbish-except-for-the-Goss-one Twelfth Doctor novels this year - isn't there some kind of LAW? If Justin Richards REALLY finds it too much of a drag to commission three whole novels in a year we're being HIDEOUSLY DEPRIVED of REAL Who, then why not, say, RESIGN?

Justin Richards in DWM: 'The books based on the current TV series have outsold [past Doctor novels] by a factor of ten' - ha! Take that, PDAs (and EDAs)!

Oh wait, the NSAs weren't any good EITHER...

'There's no point in just doing clones of the new series books with old Doctors in, because each past Doctor is distinctive. If the "past Doctors" range had an overall failing in the past, it's that we didn't distinguish between the Doctors enough. We hadn't had a distinctive "brand" for each Doctor' - a BRAND! For EACH DOCTOR? They're all the same PERSON! (Theoretically.)

Unless anyone knows better, Peter Brookes is now the first Target cover artist with a knighthood.

Are his covers notably better than anyone else's?

Sadly not. The original Target artist Chris Achilleos was wildly popular but hugely overworked and asked to be taken off the series, so they got Brookes in instead. His covers were so terrible Target had to go begging back to Achilleos to take over again.

He's improved since then, and one of his more memorable illustrations from earlier this year graces today's Times front cover and is viewable here: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/honour-for-peter-brookes-but-he-won-t-start-pulling-his-punches-hqxzmnb6x

His covers were so terrible Target had to go begging back to Achilleos to take over again

The campaign to strip Brookes of his knighthood starts HERE!

Actually it looks like he's only getting a CBE, not a knighthood, so your wish is granted!

Who will be the first Who book cover artist to get one though? Sir Alister Pearson? My money is on Sir Mediocre Photoshop!

Actually it looks like he's only getting a CBE, not a knighthood, so your wish is granted!

Dammit, why aren't all my OTHER campaigns this successful!

Who will be the first Who book cover artist to get one though? Sir Alister Pearson? My money is on Sir Mediocre Photoshop!

Oi! That photo of Davison with a gun pointing at him on the Arc of Infinity cover was THRILLING! (Yes, I was easily pleased as a child.) Admittedly the 1920s-set Eccleston novel with the photo of Portcullis House on it was slightly less successful.

(Oh, who am I trying to fool. IT HAD ECCLESTON ON IT, didn't it! What more could anyone want?)

What's the story where some crooks try to half-inch something from the T*m* L*rds and they respond by imprisoning the crooks in a time loop that gets shorter and shorter?

Haven't the foggiest, I'm afraid. I don't remember the Time Lords EVER being THAT efficient.

What's the story where some crooks try to half-inch something from the T*m* L*rds and they respond by imprisoning the crooks in a time loop that gets shorter and shorter?

Never heard of this one either.

Come to think of it, weren't Time Lords messing around with drug dealers in Sixth Doctor PDA Mission: Improbable? I don't actually remember any time loops but then what I DO remember about that book could be written on the back of a postage stamp.

the Wilderness Years books were just glorified masturbation objects for fans that only sold a few hundred thousand copies, not the millions needed to sustain the DW franchise long-term.

Terrance Dicks in 1999 DWM interview: 'The books themselves provide a tremendous opportunity for writers. I used to say at conventions, "Look, you're never going to write for Doctor Who, so just forget about it." The number of people who have confuted me on that now is embarrassing!"' - ah, bless. I'd forgotten what trouble the NAs went to to nurture new talent, as opposed to the current era where Justin Richards can barely be bothered to get himself and a couple of chums to produce three novels a year.

'I was once on a panel with a lot of the younger writers, and it struck me that they all wanted to do something to Doctor Who, whereas I just want to do Doctor Who' - ah, what a neat summary of Rad v Trad.

I was delighted to see 'Doctor Who: Paper Dolls' listed for release later this year. Don't tell me the 2017 Who Novels are actually stretching to FOUR! I thought excitedly. And such an intriguing title!

Sadly it turns out that Doctor Who: Paper Dolls IS actually a book of...paper dolls.

I hate the Virgin NAs. They invented the horsesh*t of the Looms just so fanboys reading didn't have to worry about the Doctor being born of - *gasp* - woman.

You can't hate sixty-one books because Number Sixty implied that Time Lords don't do that stupid disgusting 'sex' thing like most humans do.

Especially when there are so many OTHER reasons to hate the NAs, like most of them being pretty terrible.

Though terrible or not, they kept the faith during TSLABYOD and they launched some pretty great writers.

Ooh, it's looking as if JODIE! might get a fairer crack at the novels than poor old nine-books-in-four-years Capaldi: Major Who Publishing Deal.

Why can't we have a City of Death prequel with Hermann? (or a sequel with Hermann still alive, just badly burned, ala Mustafa from Austin Powers?)

I see you've made a few changed to this section, Emily.

The Companion novels are no longer buried under layers of forums, for example.

Well, I've removed ONE layer, sounds as if you approve...

I've done the same with the audios.

sounds as if you approve...

Yup!

There's to be a cut-down 'Target' version of Goss's City of Death. It'll have to be positively MUTILATED if it's gonna fit on a shelf with the other novelisations.

And Robot of Sherwood, Flatline and Mummy on the Orient Express are to be transmogrified (at vast expense) into Pearson Educational Readers. On the one hand, it's EXCELLENT that Who is being used for phonics books (I was quite shocked at some of the incredibly-difficult-to-decode-if-you're-four language being used in the Dr Men books, frankly). On the other hand, it's a (much more successful) rival to MY phonics programme so I'm jealous. (I did get Daniel O'Mahony to write a couple of the books and drop a few hints that I'd like a decodable version of the Time War but he ignored me and I got one pirate ship story and one spaceship-with-no-Time-War-attached story. But at least no sexually-transmitted-diseases-involving-brain-eating-maggots, one must count one's blessings.)

How would people feel if, instead of dividing the novels up into Missing Adventures, Past Doctor Adventures, Telos novellas etc, we had First Doctor, Second Doctor etc sections, a la audios?

I see you did it, Emily. Looks good, IMO.

Thanks! I did wait a few days to see if anyone had an opinion, but as they didn't...

Urk. Am now having a terrible dilemma about whether to move the two Interference novels into the Multiple and Miscellaneous Doctors section, where technically speaking they belong, what with excitingly starring the Eighth AND Third Doctors, or whether to leave 'em in the Eighth Doctor section where OBVIOUSLY they belong, you can't just skip from Autumn Mist to The Blue Angel!!

If it's going to cause confusion, then just leave them where they are.

Well I temporarily moved 'em into Multiple and Miscellaneous last night just to see if the absence of 'em from the Eighth Doctor section caused me to have a breakdown or anything, so far so good and after all, Multiple Doctors needs 'em more, to my surprise McGann actually has more novels even that McCoy after those endless barren NA years...

...Yeah, I know I should get a life at some point, I just can't be bothered.

Truth be told, Emily, I don't think anyone here, aside from you, will really care one way or the other.

Yes *sigh* I am indeed an object lesson in how, whilst it is obviously impossible to be too obsessed with Who, you can actually be too obsessed with Nitcentral...

It took forty years, but it's nice to see all three of the stories, that Douglas Adams wrote, finally on the printed page.

Yeah, and wouldn't it be even nicer to see our Missing Novelisations reduced to TWO...if only they hadn't been increased to approximately-a-hundred following the publication of Rose, Christmas Invasion, and co...

So, of Classic Who, now only Eric Sayward's two Dalek stories have yet to be novelized.

As for the New Series, hopefully, they'll start novelizing more stories before long.

Apparently in Day of The Doctor, they made the Cushing Doctor canon! At least that's what Radio Free Skaro said.

Cushing?

Cushing?!

Yup. That’s what I said!

How did that happen?

How on Earth did all of you (except Rodney) miss this? It was all over the internet. Here's one of many articles on it:

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-04-06/steven-moffat-clears-up-some-of-doctor-whos-biggest-plot-holes-in-his-new-novel/

'In a similar way to fellow ex-showrunner Russell T Davies’ adaptation of 2005 episode Rose, Moffat’s book features the presence of Jodie Whittaker’s Thirteenth Doctor'

You know, if they're both so keen on JODIE!, there was a very simple way to get her as one of THEIR Doctors, THEY COULD HAVE ASKED.

'In the new Target novelisation, the Tenth Doctor comments that he’s run into younger versions of River “a couple of times” prior to the events of the Day of the Doctor, and so the way she reacts to him in Silence in the Library makes perfect sense.'

Excellent, I just KNEW they had to have met before or she'd've been 'RESULT!'-ing all over him like the Curse of Fatal Death Companion when she spotted Hugh Grant.

'the Cushing Doctor Who films do exist in the main Whoniverse, with the actor playing a fictionalised version of the real-life Doctor with the blessing of the man himself. The new book shows posters from Cushing’s films actually hanging in the Black Archive, which Moffat has previously said he wanted to do in the episode that aired on TV – plans which were scuppered when the BBC were unable to get the rights to the artwork.

“Seen them? He loves them,” UNIT boss Kate Stewart explains to Jenna Coleman’s Clara Oswald in the episode when discussing the films.

“He loaned Peter Cushing a waistcoat for the second one, they were great friends. Though we only realised that when Cushing [started] showing up in movies made long after his death.”

That last bit, of course, is a reference to how the late Cushing was included in 2016’s Star Wars prequel Rogue One using cutting-edge CGI – though apparently it was just Tardis trickery instead.'

On the plus side, Rodney was wrong and the Cushing Doctor isn't canon.

On the not-so-plus side, how could ANYONE love the Cushing movies and why the HELL hasn't anyone in the Whoniverse ever commented on them when they see an elderly man get out of his time-travelling police box?

'Moffat even has an explanation for why the first two incarnations of the Doctor (played by William Hartnell and Patrick Troughton) experienced their adventures in black and white.

Budgetary or production restrictions stemming from its origins as 1960s BBC television? No! It was the result of the first two Doctors being profoundly colour blind, something the Time Lord didn’t even notice until reaching his third incarnation (played by Jon Pertwee).'

OH how brilliant.

And/or insane.

If you were profoundly colour-blind you WOULD bloody notice, the first time someone told you to pass the red toy or something...

'Moffat also adds more future incarnations of the Doctor to the rescue effort, with hundreds of Tardises flying around the world to save the people in trouble.'

HUNDREDS?

How many regenerations did Rassilon GIVE him!

Plus you've just RUINED the ending of Twice Upon a Time, we now KNOW that JODIE! doesn't go splat from that fall...

(Alright, it was highly unlikely but maybe the reason for that ludicrous over-abundance of Companions is cos they spent the season investigating a squished alien corpse...)

And Moffat's certainly ensured that any future writer who tries to pull a Moffat-style 'No I'm totally not gonna regenerate!' speech is gonna look even stupider...

Truth be told, Emily, the Cushing movies aren't that bad. Yeah, he is not the real Doctor, and never will be, but just treat the movies as a totally separate continuity and you'll be fine.

Cushing is an ARD (see the new post in the Totally Useless Encyclopedia).

I like Cushing and Susie. Susie is much better than Susan Prime.

the Cushing movies aren't that bad

Are SO!

Yeah, he is not the real Doctor, and never will be, but just treat the movies as a totally separate continuity and you'll be fine.

I KNOW they're not The Real Thing! That's one of my many, many problems with them...

Susie is much better than Susan Prime.

BURN THE BLASPHEMER!

*Pause*

OK...Susie wasn't too annoying...for a kid...whilst Susan was pretty annoying, even for a teenager...

I KNOW they're not The Real Thing! That's one of my many, many problems with them.

Ma'am, this is a McDonalds drive-thru.

Uh?

I echo that sentiment.

it's used on certain forums in response to a rant.

Rant? I wasn't ranting! I even graciously conceded that possibly Susie WASN'T the Spawn of Satan after all!

I've been on many forums, but I've never seen that term before.

Incidentally, I don't think Moffat was so much canonising Cushing or the B&Wness (it's a novel afterall) so much as he's just giving his readers a Moffaty wink.

There *must* be cases where Hartnell or Patrick referred to something by its colour.

There *must* be cases where Hartnell or Patrick referred to something by its colour.

I've been racking my brains for days and still haven't come up with anything...the Production Team must have known how jarring it would be for a colour to be mentioned when everything was in shades of grey...

Best I got at the moment:

Why weren't the Capaldi-less scenes in Twice Upon a Time in B&W? or that scene with Clara hiding under Hartnell's bed?

Abdominal Snowmen:
DOCTOR: Yes, I suppose there is a little bit of a nip in the air.
JAMIE: A nip? A nip? Just look at my knees. They're bright blue.
DOCTOR: What a horrible sight.


Mind Robber:
OSWALD: Which is correct. The yolk of an egg is white or the yolk of an egg are white?
DOCTOR: Neither, it's yellow

Why weren't the Capaldi-less scenes in Twice Upon a Time in B&W? or that scene with Clara hiding under Hartnell's bed?

Cos Capaldi's in the vicinity, the way Pertwee and Pertwee-and-Davison and Colin and ALL THIRTEEN are in other multiple-Doctor stories involving the colour-blind Doctors. Obviously they are sharing their sense of colour with us the way they share their translation, even shortly BEFORE they arrive due to timey-wimey...stuff.

And you'll note it kicks in very slightly AFTER the start of Twice Upon a Time and The Two Doctors...

(Hmm. Do you think the fact Troughton's hair looks grey instead of black in The Two Doctors might reflect Colin Baker having a certain problem seeing colours correctly? As Exhibit Number One (and only) I of course refer you to That Coat...)

DOCTOR: Yes, I suppose there is a little bit of a nip in the air.
JAMIE: A nip? A nip? Just look at my knees. They're bright blue.
DOCTOR: What a horrible sight.

The Doctor's ALWAYS body-shaming Jamie as a 'hairy-legged Highlander', this doesn't prove that he actually saw Jamie's knees as blue in any way.

OSWALD: Which is correct. The yolk of an egg is white or the yolk of an egg are white?
DOCTOR: Neither, it's yellow

At some point someone taught kiddie-Doctor to memorise entirely pointless facts like 'egg yolks are yellow', is doesn't mean he actually understood what the hell they were talking about (don't forget he scraped through his exams with 51% on the second attempt)...

Still, kudos for spotting ANY examples.

Did they teach kiddie Doc the Green Eggs And Ham poem

They probably did - lacking any sort of culture of their own, the Time Lords are unhealthily obsessed with Earth - which is probably why he was sobbing on that bed, he didn't get what this 'green' thing was...

If i had written an EDA it would be a horribly convoluted Mary Sue about the Eighth Doctor falling in love with a human woman (who just happened to have lots in common with the author) and "infusing her with his essence" so that she could regenerate.

the Time Lords are unhealthily obsessed with Earth

Why does Earth Who get so much attention?

Let's face it, this is ALMOST CERTAINLY the Doctor's fault.

Since Hartnell bizarrely fell in love with the French Revolution this planet has been well and truly screwed.

Why would the Doctor fall in love with the French Revolution, one of the most violent times in our history.

Of course, this is the same guy who palled around with Mao Zedung.

Why would the Doctor fall in love with the French Revolution, one of the most violent times in our history.

And, more importantly, really really boring, at least judging by Reign of Terror...

This little tome might intrest some of you- especially our moderator.

•••• right it does, but tragically I spotted it being mentioned on Gallifrey Base the day AFTER the 15%-off-pre-order expired so am trying to work out how to get my hands on it without spending a fortune...

Missed it by that much!

Lance Parkin re his novels in DWM: 'My natural instinct was to try to do mad stuff that you'd never see on TV, like the Doctor kissing his archaeologist companion, giant spaceships over Big Ben, the Doctor having a daughter, outer-space Rhino people, acknowledgment of the Morbius Doctors - that kind of thing' - oh, BLESS!

I just used an AI program to tell me the twenty worst possible titles for a Doctor Who story. This was the result:

"The Doctor vs. The Evil Space Toaster"
"Doctor Who and the Planet of the Killer Tomatoes"
"The Doctor and the Time-Travelling Teapot"
"Doctor Who and the Zombie Cybermen"
"The Doctor and the Invasion of the Space Clowns"
"Doctor Who and the Haunted TARDIS"
"The Doctor and the Terrible Time Loop of Terror"
"Doctor Who and the Quest for the Perfect Pizza"
"The Doctor and the Alien High School Musical"
"Doctor Who and the Curse of the Time-Traveling Squirrels"
"The Doctor and the Attack of the Killer Refrigerators"
"Doctor Who and the Unstoppable Robot Vacuum"
"The Doctor and the Phantom Toilet"
"Doctor Who and the Living Statue"
"The Doctor and the Giant Inflatable Chicken"
"Doctor Who and the Dimension-Hopping Dust Bunnies"
"The Doctor and the Killer Christmas Pudding"
"Doctor Who and the Time-Traveling Cabbage Patch Kids"
"The Doctor and the Revenge of the Sentient Jelly Babies"
"Doctor Who and the Attack of the Giant Space Poodles"

To be fair, are these any worse than titles like "Invasion of the Cat People" or "The Devil Goblins From Neptune?"

Definitely not, also, Who has DONE most of them...

"Doctor Who and the Zombie Cybermen"

MOST Cybermen are zombies.

"The Doctor and the Invasion of the Space Clowns"

Greatest Show in the Galaxy, Lucy Wilson and the Mirror Clowns, The George Kostinen Mystery, Day of the Clown...

"Doctor Who and the Haunted TARDIS"

The Doctor's Wife.

"The Doctor and the Terrible Time Loop of Terror"

Meglos.

"Doctor Who and the Curse of the Time-Traveling Squirrels"

Vampire Science has crack vampire squirrels if that counts...?

"Doctor Who and the Unstoppable Robot Vacuum"

Paradise Towers.

"Doctor Who and the Living Statue"

Angels Take Manhattan, Keeper of Traken.

"The Doctor and the Giant Inflatable Chicken"

Vincent and the Doctor, Kill the Moon.

"The Doctor and the Killer Christmas Pudding"

Chimes of Midnight. (Sure, the Christmas Pudding wasn't, technically speaking, killing anyone, but if I have to hear 'Christmas wouldn't be Christmas without your plum pudding' ONCE more, there will be killings.)

"The Doctor and the Revenge of the Sentient Jelly Babies"

This actually sounds like an excellent and long-overdue idea.

"Doctor Who and the Attack of the Giant Space Poodles"

Mad Dogs and Englishmen.

Brad - "Doctor Who and the Planet of the Killer Tomatoes"

Yeah, but the theme song was a classic. ;-)

"Doctor Who and the Attack of the Giant Space Poodles"

Happiness Patrol