I'm always fascinated by the subject of the missing episodes... in fact, I tend to Google them every few weeks, just in case a new one has been found. (Come on Australians and Middle-Easterners! You guys seem to have all the prints! Get to lookin'!) :-) In any event, I was curious, and thought someone here might know- what was the most recent recovered episode and/or recovered clips, and when was that? A.k.a. Which one is the most 'hot off the presses?' I assume there's been nothing since at least 2006, since there don't seem to have been any life-size Dalek giveaways... but how long has it been?

The last major find was 2004's return of Dalek's Master Plan episode 2. Dunno what was before that.

Some clips from Power of the Daleks were found in 2005, but I just got that from Wikipedia.

I tend to Google them every few weeks, just in case a new one has been found.

No need to bother with Google, the popping of champagne corks on Nitcentral will be extremely audible...still, that's very sweet, you're going through all the stages a True Fan should, though in my case the profound disbelief, foaming fury, futile hope, and desire to KILL KILL KILL lasted for about quarter of century - from the moment I discovered The Hideous Truth to the moment I realised I'd toss every black n'white in the nearest bin in exchange for five more minutes of New Who-y goodness.

The last major find was 2004's return of Dalek's Master Plan episode 2.

THAT was in 2004????!!!!! God, doesn't time fly when you're having fun...

(Does anyone else find themselves feeling that PROPER human history only really kicked off on 26th March 2005, and anything before then is a bit of a pointless blur...? Maybe we should campaign to change the calendar, I mean that 'BC' and 'AD' stuff is just silly, not to mention, as I'm sure even Andrew will agree, inaccurate. And as it happens, 25th March - Lady Day - WAS considered the first day of the New Year for centuries.)

"The last major find was 2004's return of Dalek's Master Plan episode 2. Dunno what was before that." - Kevin

Thanks! Perfect, too- that's the next one we're set to watch! :-)


"No need to bother with Google, the popping of champagne corks on Nitcentral will be extremely audible..." - Emily

Y'know, I figured that... but I just wanted to compensate for my own natural thickness... lest I missed anything. :-)


"Maybe we should campaign to change the calendar, I mean that 'BC' and 'AD' stuff is just silly, not to mention, as I'm sure even Andrew will agree, inaccurate." - Emily

They year is indeed off, regardless. Still, it's the thought that counts... ;-)

Can you believe a 'treasure trove,' an 'embarrassment of riches,' of long-lost BBC tv stories have been found in the US Library of Congress, and there's not ONE mention of Doctor Who? Patrick Troughton yes, but apparently a non-Who role.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2010/sep/12/lost-tapes-classic-british-television

Emily, maybe we need a general 'lost episodes' board where the last few posts can be moved to?

Good idea.

No problem.

Except that I felt the word 'lost' didn't exactly adequately convey exactly what happened to these...these...MUTILATED, MURDERED, MARTYRED pieces of perfection. They didn't just fall down the back of the sofa, you know...

"pieces of perfection"

I've seen more of Who's B&W era now and that is definitely not the phrase I'd use to describe them. Just think, Web Planet could have been one of those dropped behind the sofa (if only).

I've seen more of Who's B&W era now and that is definitely not the phrase I'd use to describe them.

Me neither, but then I wasn't talking about the black-and-whites we HAVE seen. I was talking about...the other ones. Admittedly it would be a staggering coincidence if ALL our lost preciouses DID happen to be the greatest things since Gridlock, but in the absence of any actual PROOF to the contrary that's my position and I'm sticking to it.

(NB: obviously 'proof' equals the actual episodes and nothing but the actual episodes. Audio recordings, telesnap reconstructions, scripts and Target novelisations are all irrelevant. Just look at the way they make Galaxy 4 out to be the most boring thing in human history (bar The Dominators, obviously) whereas we all know from that delightful clip of Maaga that it was an all-time classic.)

Just think, Web Planet could have been one of those dropped behind the sofa (if only).

Personally, I try to live my life as if that happy eventuality had indeed been the case. (If Amy Pond can warp the nature of reality with her mind, why not ME?)

I look at it this way, if we didn't have something like The Web Planet or Timelash (or the whole of Sylvester McCoy's tenure, or even Matt Smith's first season 0:-)), then Genesis of the Daleks/ Tom Baker/ David Tennant wouldn't look as good by comparison.

The bad bits make the good bits look even better.

And there's always the hope that as computing power increases, even if the the Restoration Team/Cosgrove Hall don't animate the missing episodes (or possibly even interpolate pixels from telesnap images if they're reasonably close), some fans will.

I look at it this way, if we didn't have something like The Web Planet or Timelash (or the whole of Sylvester McCoy's tenure, or even Matt Smith's first season 0:-)), then Genesis of the Daleks/ Tom Baker/ David Tennant wouldn't look as good by comparison.

Oh, stuff n'nonsense! City of Death and Gridlock would still be the most fantastic things ever created by the human race whether they were surrounded by Web Planets or Human Natures.

I might come across as a Conspiracy Theorist for this, but I can't help thinking that somebody at the BBC had a grudge against Patrick Troughton, and that's why so many of his episodes are gone or reduced to a few episodes. Even back then the Daleks and Cybermen were popular, and made the episodes even more special or important, and yet we have so little of both from Troughton's era. Power of the Daleks, especially should never have been trashed, not only because of the Daleks, but because it was his FIRST story!
If any one can explain why his were reduced to a pathetic handful, I'm listening, but the horrifying lack of brains on the part of the BBC, which thought re-runs wouldn't be lucrative years later, is just pathetic and bewildering to me. To not assume that eventually Canadian and American tv stations, which outnumber every other country in total, wouldn't want to show these stories in 1970 or 1975 or 1979 is just so dopey I can't believe it really happened, and was put into action by several people who could have rescued the films.

Hard to say, except one should never underestimate the stupidity of the powers that be, BBC or otherwise.

Oh, yeah. I think back in the '20s or '30s Hollywood studios burnt a bunch of old films because they felt the silver they'd recover was more valuable. "Who would want to watch old films?" they thought.

In the '70s NBC burnt the first 10 years of The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson (He was not pleased) feeling that the silver was more valuable than potential reruns.

More recently around the turn of the century I heard of a radio host who was shocked to discover that the radio station he was about to leave had erased all his old shows (although that probably was a case of hard feelings. ;-)

And back in 2005 the webcomic host Drunk Duck (which had a few thousand webcomics at the time) went down become of some incompetency at the webserver & when that got sorted out it turned out that the webserver hadn't even made a back-up copy like they were paid to. Some cartoonists lost some or all of their comics (because for some reason they didn't have copies of their own.)

So yeah, if you just focus on Doctor Who episodes being lost you might wonder how one group can be so stupid, but if you expand your view to similar situations across time & space...
Wow! It's amazing we have anything to watch given all the fools in positions of power!

Weren't pretty much all of the first two Doctors' episodes destroyed, and it's just that more of Hartnel's have been recovered?

Hartnell's were more widely sold abroad, hence more survived.

Re:Steve McKinnons last post...
To be fair to the BBC, there were several factors that influenced the BBC's decision to erase most of their early output namely...
1)The cost of the 2inch Videotape used by the BBC, was the equivalent of £25,000 a reel,in today's currency, & could be used a maximum of 25 record/erase cycles before it became completely useless...
2)Union issues...
Pre 1975, the Equity (British Actors trade/labor union's) position on repeats, was that a t.v programme could only be shown 3 times, before deletion...
3) ITV stations were doing exactly the same thing, for the same reasons, hence the BBC at the time felt no reason, not to challenge the status quo...
(Currently, Freemantle Television, the current owner of Thames Television, has a standing bounty/reward for anyone, that has a copy of any episode of Ace of Wands series 1 or 2, that they could return to Freemantle, as they were erased in the 1970's...).
However, to argue Steve's case, there were an "Old School" faction within the BBC, that still felt that the BBC's attitude should be to "Educate & Inform", rather than go down the populist route that the usurper "Commercial Channel" ITV, took by entertaining people.
As a result of this "Reithian elitism", so to speak, if 2 programmes were scheduled for deletion, one a performance of a classical symphony by a prestigious orchestra, & the other to them, a piece of mindless S.F/Fantasy drivel that served as entertainment to the masses, called Doctor Who ?, needless to say, Dr.Who would get deleted...

It's possible that when the Hartnell stories were sold many buyers were still broadcasting in black & white, the Troughton stories didn't sell so well because by that time many TV stations had started to switch over to colour.

Though even contemplating this is probably just in the realm of futile self-torture, I got to thinking: if you had the ability to restore 3 of the lost serials in their entirety, (and yes, three is a completely arbitrary number) at the cost of ensuring that three other reconstructeds would never, ever be found in the history of the world... which would you choose?

For my picks...
Restore:
The Faceless Ones (Still the best 2nd Doctor story of it's season, in my opinion)

Dalek Master Plan (A deserving epic!)

The Celestial Toymaker (I think it would be fun and exciting if rendered visually)

I know, Marco Polo should, by rights be on the list, but... I enjoy the other stories so much more, so I'm selfish. :-) Likewise, Tenth Planet's regeneration scene, Enemy of the World's dual performances, and the Myth Makers' superb humor are tempting runner-ups, but if I had to pick three- there they be.

Lose:
I suppose converting the Dominators and the Sensorites into missing serials to take the hit would go against my own rules? *SIGH*

Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve (As I can never watch it without wanting to wring Gaston's neck anyhow...)

Web of Fear (it's probably a good story with visuals, and the first Brig before he was the brig, but...)

Galaxy 4 (Go to heck, Galaxy 4! You STINK!!!)


My wife's:
Restore:
Celestial Toymaker
Enemy of the World
Marco Polo

Lose:
The Highlanders
The Savages
Galaxy 4

My brother-in-law’s:
Keep:
The Daleks’ Master Plan
The Highlanders
The Celestial Toymaker

Lose:
Galaxy 4
Marco Polo
The Macra Terror


So, those are our picks... what would yours be?

The Faceless Ones (Still the best 2nd Doctor story of it's season, in my opinion)

Seriously? Six eps of running round an airport, followed by the most non-existent ending in Who's history?

Dalek Master Plan (A deserving epic!)

I dunno if it's DESERVING exactly (you realise you'd be resurrecting The Feast of Steven??) but it's GOT to be done, just for the sheer number of extra episodes we'd be blessed with (especially if we sneak Mission to the Unknown in too).

The Celestial Toymaker (I think it would be fun and exciting if rendered visually)

I wish I could believe that.

I DID used to...before I SAW the surviving Celestial episode...

Lose:
I suppose converting the Dominators and the Sensorites into missing serials to take the hit would go against my own rules? *SIGH*

*SIGH* indeed.

Web of Fear (it's probably a good story with visuals, and the first Brig before he was the brig, but...)

I've heard very strong suggestions that the surviving first episode is an all-time classic and the other five are a complete London-underground-obsessed waste of time, but still...

Galaxy 4 (Go to heck, Galaxy 4! You STINK!!!)

Now THAT we can agree on. We've GOT the only worthwhile bit of Galaxy 4 - the discussion on MEN (uselessness thereof)...

I'll take Evil of the Daleks, Power of the Daleks, and Dalek Masterplan, thanks. (Sorry, Crusades. I REALLY REALLY want you, but you're only TWO extra episodes...)

I'd sacrifice (though I'm not quite sure 'sacrifice' is the right word) Galaxy 4, Reign of Terror and Mission to the Unknown...if the latter isn't counted as part of Masterplan. If it is, I'll lose Space Pirates...in fact, maybe I'll just lose Space Pirates for the hell of it.)

I freely admit that I cannot logically account for why Faceless Ones grabs me the way it does. Adding everything up, it seems very average or below- but in watching it, even reconstructed, it becomes far more than the sum of its parts for me; I think it may be the characters. They respond in a realistic fashion- possibly hostile at first, but once proof is presented, they are convinced- when the man they consider crazy makes a valid point, they still listen, and when he suggests a reasonable proposal, they agree... unlike so many other characters that the Doctor deals with, who seem to be pre-programmed with a stock response (typically 'Denial') which they will continue to trot out to everything the Doctor says, no matter how reasonable or bizarre. Plus, the empty plane cliffhanger? Maybe not a Pertwee-level (seriously, mediocre as Ambassadors of Death can be, from about then-onwards the cliffhangers seem to be brilliantly orchestrated!) or Tennant-level cliffhanger, but it was still pretty catchy.

For the Master Plan- I dunno, I have a morbid fascination with the Feast of Steven... which was admittedly diminished by actually seeing it, but I like the Police Station conversations and the fourth-wall break. regardless, any sacrifice is worth it for MORE MONK!!! :-) Not to mention that Time Destructor March finale... and of course, as you say, that fantastic gaggle of delegates!

And the Toymaker... well, I think we three viewers are (from reading various reactions) the only three people on Earth that LIKED that surviving episode. :-) And found the ending solution clever. And the preceding three possessed of a legitimate style and peril (well, okay, minus the find-a-key bit). Even so...

"I've heard very strong suggestions that the surviving first episode is an all-time classic and the other five are a complete London-underground-obsessed waste of time, but still..." - Emily
Unfortunately, without the visuals, it was all noise and confusion and repetition for us. I wanted to like this one a lot better than I did...

So, I take it you... like the Daleks, then? ;-) Solid choices- I can get behind those. It'd be fun to see Alpha, Beeta, and Omeega cavorting about, witness that Dalek Emperor firsthand, see the post-regen for the first time, and the Dalek assembly line...

ARGH. This is an exercise in needless frustration. WHY HAVEN'T THEY FOUND ANOTHER ONE YET????

I freely admit that I cannot logically account for why Faceless Ones grabs me the way it does. Adding everything up, it seems very average or below- but in watching it, even reconstructed, it becomes far more than the sum of its parts for me; I think it may be the characters.

Ah. Fair enough. I'll give it another go.

(seriously, mediocre as Ambassadors of Death can be, from about then-onwards the cliffhangers seem to be brilliantly orchestrated!)

Of course, being me I tend to remember the Death to the Daleks-type ones.

So, I take it you... like the Daleks, then? ;-)

Actually the Dalek involvement was a total coincidence...

It'd be fun to see Alpha, Beeta, and Omeega cavorting about, witness that Dalek Emperor firsthand, see the post-regen for the first time, and the Dalek assembly line...

ARGH. This is an exercise in needless frustration. WHY HAVEN'T THEY FOUND ANOTHER ONE YET????

DAMMIT, now you've set me off again. I've been SO GOOD since Who came back, I've so seldom foamed at the mouth for our genocided epics...

Sorry. :-)

Some days are special. Some days are so, SO blessed.

Alright, it's a shame that I loathe Galaxy 4 with a fiery passion and I'm the ONLY person in this philistine universe to love, worship and adore Underwater Menace as it deserves, but what the hell...

NEW EPISODES! TWO NEW EPISODES, PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like someone is having a good day!!!!

The question is why the hell aren't the REST of you having a good day? Gallifrey Base now runs to dozens of pages of rejoicing, yet not one single Nitcentraller has popped in to mention that it's the Happiest Day Of Their Life.

Well, here's a couple of clips that will hopefully wake you all up:

http://news.drwho-online.co.uk/Two-Lost-Doctor-Who-Episodes-Found!.aspx

Ah, just LOOK at all that blissful Troughton/Zaroff goodness!

And already Galaxy 4 has gone up immeasurably in my estimation, when you can actually SEE Hartnell standing there twitching away suddenly it's NOT BORING AT ALL!!!

The link doesn't work...

It IS a great day that two more episodes have been found...only 106 now to find...

The sad part is that we won't see the whole things until a dvd release in the next two years. How about an internet stream or something of these two episodes???

The link doesn't work...

It works if you cut n'paste it instead of clicking - for some reason (probably the stupid exclamation mark, not that a few exclamation marks aren't in order) whatever-it-is that turns things into links cuts out a bit early.

The sad part is that we won't see the whole things until a dvd release in the next two years. How about an internet stream or something of these two episodes???

Or how about the BBC courier every fan a free copy of both episodes in an attempt to make reparations for them MURDERING MY EPISODES in the first place, the genocidal maniacs?

only 106 now to find...

Isn't it WEIRD how '106 missing episodes of Who' is such a thrill...

I'm convinced they are all out there being hoarded by collectors who know their true worth. It's a travesty and crime and these people need to be set upon by Emily's well-trained ninja cats (as opposed to JEP's backing singers), but sadly they know how to cover their tracks well...

Apparently TUM:2 is an ex-Australian print and has cuts reminding us all how Australian censors liked to indulge their - at various times - homophobia, sexism, racism and Christian supremecy.

Oh, I'm rejoicing. But I am in shock that the last discovery was eight years ago! If someone asked, I would have said three or four...

Great clips. I finally got around to listening to G4 one year ago and thought it was much better than I had expected, although that says more about my expectations.

I wonder if every episode exists, somewhere in the world.

I wonder if every episode exists, somewhere in the world.

They are all out there, in the vast Universe, moving away from us at the speed of light.

Woohoo!

That means they now have the middle half of The Underwater Menace. Now they just need to find the first quarter & last quarter & it'll be complete!

Great News, only recently I was wondering if any more would turn up.

In recent years most seem to have turned up in film collections, so there's the hope that some others might be found.

By the sounds of it The Restoration Team will need to give them some TLC.

Francois:They are all out there, in the vast Universe, moving away from us at the speed of light.

True, but until we invent either a time machine or an FTL drive it won't help us.

Well, in the absence of time machines and FTL drives, I thought I would try something more down to Earth. In Canada on CBC radio, we have an art and culture show called Q. It is broadcasted in all of Canada, most of the USA and also through the internet all over the world. I just sent them the following email:


Hello Jian (Jian Ghomeshi is the host of the show)

Considering the great quality of your show and the depth and breath of the many subjects you tackle, you probably have no need for suggestions by your devoted listeners, but I'm still taking the liberty of sending you this one. When Doctor Who started being broadcasted in november 1963, the BBC had no way of knowing what a phenomenal success the show would eventually become. As a result, those early episodes were not preserved as well as they should have been. Also, a lot of video material in the BBC's tape and film libraries were either taped over or destroyed during the late 1960s and early 1970s. As a result, many Doctor Who episodes from the first decade of the show have gone missing, which is a real tragedy for all the devoted Doctor Who fans of the world.

Over the years, some of those missing episodes have been recovered from various sources. The most recently recovered ones are Episode Three of Galaxy 4 (1965) and Episode Two of The Underwater Menace (1967), a few days ago. Here is a link to a more detailed account of the recovery:

http://news.drwho-online.co.uk/Two-Lost-Doctor-Who-Episodes-Found!.aspx

My suggestion is this. You could interview the people involved in the search for the lost episodes of Doctor Who. I think that search is a great story and it would also let your many culturally savvy listeners know about it. Perhaps, it would cause a few of them to remember the episodes that may be in their possession and return them to the BBC. I know it's a long shot, more of a shot in the dark actually, but I still think it's worth a try. And in any case, you would get a great interview out of it.

Thank you very much for your kind attention, and I hope Q remains on the air for many years to come, it really is a totally great show.

François Lacombe


Hopefully, something will come out of it.

Not a bad idea-please keep us updated on how it works. This is a good time to try with Whos 50th anniversery coming up.

(It's better than my sitting here being a wise guy about it!!!)

Although, from what I've read--it was one program director at the BBC who did all the damage.

Since the pro-level video taped they were using were expensive, and he though there wound be no market for them--he ordered most of the master tapes for Whos first 6 seasons erased so they could reuse the tapes.

I guess he thought it was a good idead at the time(home video had yet to take off)-and we end up paying for it.

Good Luck.

it was one program director at the BBC who did all the damage.
Yeahhhhhhh, riiiiiiight... reminds me of when Star Trek started out the execs at NBC were worried that Mr. Spock's pointed ears were scare away potential viewers so they had the points airbrushed away in the early promotional material. Years later someone tried to find out who actually gave the order for that, but all the executives claimed they had nothing to do with it & placed all the blame on some powerless guy in the art department.

And as I pointed out somewhere up above this kind of short-sighted idiocy is not unique to the BBC. Hollywood used to burn old movies & TV shows to recover the silver from the film. ("Classic, schmassic, who wants to watch old movies & TV?")

Hey-every source I've read says the same thing--the BBC brought in a new program director and he made the call.

I know there are more details-but I'll leave that for more devoted fans than me to bring up.

(Yo, Emily--that's your cue!!!!)

Not a bad idea-please keep us updated on how it works. This is a good time to try with Whos 50th anniversery coming up.

It will probably be some time before anything comes of it, IF anything comes of it. The show is winding down for the holiday season and will restart in the coming new year. Its schedule is full until then. In the meantime, here's a link to Matt Smith's interview on Q for anyone interested:

http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/qpodcast_20100414_30773.mp3

It's the full show for april 14th 2010, Matt Smith's segment starts about a third of the way in.

I'm convinced they are all out there being hoarded by collectors who know their true worth.

Well, THIS bloke obviously didn't...

It's a travesty and crime and these people need to be set upon by Emily's well-trained ninja cats

You don't TRAIN cats to be ninjas (or anything else)...they're just BORN that way, bless their adorable reflexes and sharp claws...

But honestly, a reward of a few thousand pounds from the BBC would probably do the job EVEN BETTER than clawing their eyes out, but the BBC's just TOO MEAN...

Apparently TUM:2 is an ex-Australian print and has cuts reminding us all how Australian censors liked to indulge their - at various times - homophobia, sexism, racism and Christian supremecy.

Ah, but said cuts were actually dug up YEARS ago - proving that Austalians may be homophobic, sexist, racist and/or Christian, but this is ALL TO THE GOOD as they're also so incompetent they KEEP the bits of film they literally snipped out of the broadcast...

Oh, I'm rejoicing. But I am in shock that the last discovery was eight years ago! If someone asked, I would have said three or four...

Doesn't time fly when you're having fun.

New Who being the very epitome of 'fun'...

I finally got around to listening to G4 one year ago and thought it was much better than I had expected, although that says more about my expectations.

My sentiments precisely.

I wonder if every episode exists, somewhere in the world.

WANT WANT WANT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!

Though honestly, can it be TOO long before technology can cheaply recreate those genocided black-and-whites in a pleasing approximation of all their original glory...?

They are all out there, in the vast Universe, moving away from us at the speed of light.

Bloody lucky aliens.

SO NOT FAIR.

only recently I was wondering if any more would turn up.

Whereas this discovery made me realise I'd pretty much given up hope.

Not that I'm totally shocked by this Blessed Miracle. Life has been so insanely beyond my wildest dreams since 26th March 2005...

Well, in the absence of time machines and FTL drives, I thought I would try something more down to Earth.

Excellent job!

Aside from you trying to MAKE EXCUSES for those genocidal scumbags at the BBC. Surely demanding they end up in the Hague for crimes against humanity would be only fair, not to mention getting the still-missing episodes EVEN MORE publicity...

reminds me of when Star Trek started out the execs at NBC were worried that Mr. Spock's pointed ears were scare away potential viewers so they had the points airbrushed away in the early promotional material.

Ha ha ha!

What miserable cowards those early Trekkie-producers must have been!

While Who FLAUNTED the alienness of its hero!

(Well, till the telemovie at least...)

this kind of short-sighted idiocy is not unique to the BBC. Hollywood used to burn old movies & TV shows to recover the silver from the film.

Luckily I don't give a •••• about THEM.

I know there are more details-but I'll leave that for more devoted fans than me to bring up.

(Yo, Emily--that's your cue!!!!)

*Bitterly* Chance would be a fine thing. Have you ANY IDEA how long I've been trying to get my hands on 'Wiped!' - the definitive (well, until this week ;)) account of the genocide? Only today I trekked an hour out of my way to the newly-built Canada Water library cos its online catalogue LYINGLY claimed to have a copy...

*Bitterly* Chance would be a fine thing. Have you ANY IDEA how long I've been trying to get my hands on 'Wiped!'

There are 8 new copies listed available on Amazon Canada. Want me to order you one?

Ah, that's very very kind but no, I have an inconvenient principle that I've gotta get books out of the library the way God* intended, before getting 'em cheap and second-hand several years later. (Don't ask me why - I can afford any Who goodies I want. But then, I can only afford 'em thanks to a pathological inability to actually spend money instead of saving it.)

*Don't ask me WHAT god - Xoanon? The Dodecahedron? The Gods of Ragnarok?

Ok. However, two of them are from sellers in the United Kingdom, one is named Speedy Hen and the other Langton_info_england. Maybe they have local outlets, you could give then a try.

Aside from you trying to MAKE EXCUSES for those genocidal scumbags at the BBC. Surely demanding they end up in the Hague for crimes against humanity would be only fair, not to mention getting the still-missing episodes EVEN MORE publicity...

Sadly, being a short sighted moron is not against the law.

I hope you don't mind Emily, I have ordered one of those eight copies of "Wiped!" for myself, it arrived today. First impressions are that it will be good reading, woot!

Of course I don't mind, and in fact another visit to the library finally resulted in me being in a similar happy position. Well, not THAT happy, Wiped! seems AMAZINGLY thick and heavy - how many different ways can it say 'The BBC destroyed them all'...?

Ah, good for you.

And yes, it is rather substantial, I guess we'll soon know the answer to that fascinating question.

Anyone else find that their attitude to the Greatest Discovery Since Tutankhamun's Tomb is subtly altering? Suddenly '106 missing episodes!' is no longer a source of supreme joy but an utter abomination. I WANT MORE HURRY UP AND FIND ME SOME MORE EPISODES! Come to that, I WANT THESE TWO EPISODES GIMME GIMME GIMME NOW.

Gotta wait a couple of years for the restoration.

Couple of YEARS?????? Sod THAT. Anyone got an illegal copy...?

I said this the last time they found some episodes- I understand they want to restore it for dvd release but why not put the episodes- unremastered- on the BBC website or even make it available for download on iTunes or something?

The last find was released very quickly in the Lost in Time set. They seem to have created that set just because they'd found one.

Whoa!!

You don't think the 1st April date is a bit of a give-away...?

yeah but you got excited didn't you?

Not really--it's also 3 years old(April 1st 2009).

If it were real we'd have heard something by now.

I fell for this, but please let me explain.

A friend of mine found the article way back in October or so. And rather than forwarding it to me, he told me about it, so the whole April's Fool thing was completely lost on me.

But I was suspicious that I hadn't heard about it here or anywhere else, so as soon as I came home, I looked it up and immediately saw the date.

Nice timing though.

Air Lock is to be released in March...as a bonus episode on the special edition version of The Aztecs.

How ******* DARE they force me to buy ANOTHER edition of The Aztecs, a story I don't even particularly like, when I already BOUGHT The Aztecs on DVD, AND on video, AND on audio, AND in novelisation form (I drew the line at the audio of the novelisation. That's just getting silly).

The BBC should be RUSHING a free copy of Air Lock on a silver platter to EVERY misfortunate fan who has spent DECADES deprived of this joy thanks to THEM deciding what a fabulous idea it would be to CHUCK ALL THE HARTNELLS AND TROUGHTONS IN THE BIN.

thanks to THEM deciding what a fabulous idea it would be to CHUCK ALL THE HARTNELLS AND TROUGHTONS IN THE BIN.

You have the book Wiped! You know the circumstances that led to this tragedy of tragedies.

Actually it was so LONG and so HEAVY I kinda...returned it to the library unread. Don't judge me! Once every NOVEL has an up-to-date entry on Nitcentral I'll be able to turn back to the reference books...

Actually it was so LONG and so HEAVY I kinda...returned it to the library unread.

Of course, if that had been said by anyone other than yourself you would have been howling with shrieks of outrage....

Of course I would. But my shrieks of outrage would have had an understanding undertone detectable to the discerning reader.

Painfully excellent DWM article on this subject:

'Doctor Who's darkest hour - the mass junking of First and Second Doctor episodes...' - WAS that Who's darkest hour? Crime-against-humanity though it was, we lost more (OK, admittedly potential rather than actual) episodes during TSLABYOD...(OK, I'm probably just bitter cos the glorious return of Galaxy 4 Episode whatever-it-was was a bit of a let-down.)

And I really, REALLY didn't want to know that 'a full set of episodes was held until at least early 1972'. THAT'S just twisting the knife.

The Blue Peter cretins lost The Traitors but DIDN'T lose Tenth Planet Part 4? You learn something new every day.

If (as this claims) Ian Levine DID rescue The Daleks AND scoured Nigeria until he came up with Time Meddler and War Machines...why do fans still HATE him so much?

"why do fans still HATE him so much?"

Attack of the Cybermen?

It's because he is quick to denigrate and put down the show with all manner of horrible criticisms (just follow his twitter feed) and then when it get turns to him he gets all whiny and "leave me alone".

Look, if I'd saved The Daleks for humanity, I'd feel entitled to whinge my bloody head off till the end of time.

And it's not as if Attack of the Cybermen is any worse than the REST of the Colin Baker era. May the gods have mercy on our souls.

It this is true...WOW!


http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/13/wqill-doctor-who-have-a-very-special-surprise-for-us-in-november/

That would be very good indeed. The book Wiped! states that one of the lost episodes is lost forever. It's chapter 7 of 'The Dalek Masterplan', which was never recorded on 16 mm film for overseas sales, and therefore ceased to exist when the original broadcast tape was erased. If the rumor ever includes that particular episode, we can be pretty sure it is bogus. Fingers crossed

Oh. Kay. *Takes several deep breaths*

I'm of the 'Life's a ••••• and then you die' school of thought, but then...ANYTHING'S possible in a universe where we can acquire TWO DOCTORS WHO I LOVE MORE THAN TOM BAKER, so...

...Nope, it's STILL impossible that we could be UTTERLY BLESSED enough to get our paws on Evil of the Daleks (not to mention the fact that we'd all be dead of old age by the time the BBC could be bothered to get it on DVD, going by Underwater Menace Episode Two...)

But still. FIVE MINUTES of Evil would be enough to redeem the flop of our so-called Fiftieth Anniversary...

The book Wiped! states that one of the lost episodes is lost forever. It's chapter 7 of 'The Dalek Masterplan', which was never recorded on 16 mm film for overseas sales, and therefore ceased to exist when the original broadcast tape was erased.


I don't have the book. Why was that one episode never transferred to film?

Overseas sales were handled by BBC Enterprises, a separate department. They made requests for the tapes of the episodes they wanted to sell to be kept, then made the 16mm film copies and distributed them to their customers. The book doesn't actually say that this particular episode was never copied, it says that no paperwork relating to such a copy being made exists. So, either it was never copied because nobody purchased it, or it was copied and the relevant paperwork was simply lost.

the episode was seen as a "bit of Christmas whimsy" and the Daleks' Master Plan was sold overseas as an eleven part story.

On the plus side, if we were to get back all episodes barring that one, that's the one we'd want to not have.

A bunch of Grinches and Scrooges here, I see

we'd all be dead of old age by the time the BBC could be bothered to get it on DVD, going by Underwater Menace Episode Two...

...or maybe they have all the episodes now, so there's no point...?

Emily - we'd all be dead of old age by the time the BBC could be bothered to get it on DVD, going by Underwater Menace Episode Two...
Well, if a big cache of missing eps has been discovered maybe there's a good reason for putting off pressing a disc of ep 2, (i.e. maybe eps 1 & 4 have been found?)

Yeah, Christopher, Dalek Masterplan episode 7 was basically a "breather episode", a light-hearted break from the Dalek storyline that had little to do with it. Based on a transcript I read it seemed like it could be fun though.

The book doesn't actually say that this particular episode was never copied, it says that no paperwork relating to such a copy being made exists. So, either it was never copied because nobody purchased it, or it was copied and the relevant paperwork was simply lost.

The BBC are very, VERY good at keeping PAPERWORK. I've just been listening to the interview with Fraser Hines at the end of the Ice Warriors CDs, in which the interviewer is helpfully reading him BBC paperwork about every minute aspect of the show and he's screaming 'WHY THE •••• DID THEY KEEP THE PAPERWORK AND DITCH THE ACTUAL EPISODES!!' (Well, actually, he's just ASKING in a perfectly reasonable tone of voice. I'm the one doing the screaming.)

On the plus side, if we were to get back all episodes barring that one, that's the one we'd want to not have.

My thoughts precisely.

A bunch of Grinches and Scrooges here, I see

What! US??

Well, if a big cache of missing eps has been discovered maybe there's a good reason for putting off pressing a disc of ep 2, (i.e. maybe eps 1 & 4 have been found?)

I just...don't believe it. There's NO WAY they could keep the most important historical discovery since Troy/Tutankhamun/Sutton Hoo/whatever (delete as appropriate - I'm not big on archaeology) a secret until November 23rd, and why the hell would they WANT to - that's the one day we'll be too busy ogling our most-beloved Doctor/our soon-to-be-lost Doctor/our somewhat unexpected Doctor to be THAT bothered about some black n'whites...

Dalek Masterplan episode 7 was basically a "breather episode", a light-hearted break from the Dalek storyline that had little to do with it. Based on a transcript I read it seemed like it could be fun though.

Theoretically speaking it COULD be fun, I suppose. But I've listened to the audio and I'm voting for 'embarrassing'. And 'stupid'. And 'racist'.

When Ian Levine says "I have just seen "three tons" of evidence that tells me it's all true. Saying no more. Apart from I now believe it again." then I REALLY start to believe (when this story first broke he said that it was complete rubbish and impossible).

Some more from Mr. Levine...
"I've just been given proof that backs up the entire story,from 2011. So yes I now really believe he has found 90 missing episodes"

"There are literally three tons of film cans and that's just from 2011. I have the actual proof"

Oh. My. Giddy. Aunt....

If it is true, I'm willing to be the prints are cut to pieces by overseas censors

Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE, Can you IMAGINE...

I'm actually more excited about this prospect than the 50th anniversary special.

HELL, yeah, who wouldn't prefer THE CRUSADE and POWER OF THE DALEKS and, ooh, EVIL too!!!!! over watching some ugly old man screw up our sacred Doctor-numbering system? Oh, and our Brig's FIRST STORY! And can you IMAGINE the WHOLE OF MARCO POLO? Even its pathetic mutilated audio remains were a pleasure.

The moment I was staring at the 'recovered' list and mentally grumbling about the lack of Daleks Masterplan was the moment I realised that maybe, just maybe, I believed.

Even though I don't. Obviously. I'm not a MORON.

Am I?

No of course I'm not.

There are no such thing as Macra. Macra do not exist.

Grrrr! I'd just about managed to persuade myself that it was all a pack of lies (but that if we were VERY VERY BLESSED we might get an episode or two out of it) when the BBC went and issued a denial that got my hopes soaring again. They 'cannot confirm any new finds'!! There obviously ARE new finds! They're just not ready to confirm 'em yet!

Yes the denial seemed really fake didn't it?

For the record, this is the denial in question.

I still say that Levine would not have backed it if he even remotely felt there was nothing to it.

Well, the BBC have now confirmed that they a) have recovered 90 previously missing episodes of Doctor Who and b) will be burning them on a huge bonfire to celebrate the 50th anniversary in November. A spokesman said, "We see this as the perfect end to a year of such classic anniversary projects like not making a new series this year, botching the announcement of Matt Smith's departure, and 'Rings of Akhaten'. The burning will be open to all Doctor Who fans, and we will also be serving complimentary Ferrero Roche."

There's been a PROPER denial from the company supposedly in possession of our Life's Happiness that they totally don't have everything.

At least I now have an answer to the question of why everyone hates Ian Levine so much. Well, if they didn't before THEY DO NOW.

If only the BBC hadn't issued such a malicious non-denial denial, I wouldn't have got my hopes up. Oh, and if Kate hadn't said THIS:

Well, the BBC have now confirmed that they a) have recovered 90 previously missing episodes of Doctor Who

I suggest she makes no such comments again unless SHE wants to be burnt on a huge bonfire...

And the rumour mill continues to turn:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/24/will-a-missing-episode-teaser-appear-on-the-end-of-doctor-who-the-zygons/

Either this is much ado about nothing, or the truth will be stranger than the rumors when something definite does come out.

Well, that's one way of getting people to buy a dull old ultra-trad Zygons DVD, anyway.

I'm afraid I don't find it particularly convincing.

'Initial demands involved Moffat's departure from the show' - look, we're all devastated by Rings of Akhaten and Curse of the Black Spot, but who would SERIOUSLY demand the sacking of the current showrunner in exchange for 45-year-old episodes?

Is there any organisation likely to be holding all this material, other than Philip Morris's, who has, unlike the BBC, had the decency to deny the whole thing in no uncertain terms?

Have we any explanation for how Power and Evil could be found in Africa if they've never been SOLD to Africa?

For some reason my heart seems to be fluttering in an unusually happy manner, however...

"'Initial demands involved Moffat's departure from the show' - look, we're all devastated by Rings of Akhaten and Curse of the Black Spot, but who would SERIOUSLY demand the sacking of the current showrunner in exchange for 45-year-old episodes?"

Er... have you met any Doctor Who fans?

Actually, if one did have an episode or two stashed away you could make all kinds of demands depending on what they were: you could get a pole dancing display from Karen Gillan in exchange for 'The Evil of the Daleks', or a pole dancing display from Matthew Waterhouse in exchange for an unedited episode of 'The Dominators'.

I'm beginning to think this whole thing is one huge load of [Word removed by Moderator]

I think that these do exist. I also think that it has been massively covered up so it can be revealed in due course. Now the cat is out of the bag I wonder why they are persisting in this nonsense.

I go back to Ian Levine (and sorry to harp on this) but if he wasn't genuinely sure about the finds he would not have publicly stated he believed in them- especially after he had denounced the initial rumours as rubbish. Let's face it, the man knows a fair deal about finding these episodes and what it entails. For him to acknowledge that they exist is actually a BIG thing.

Now the cat is out of the bag I wonder why they are persisting in this nonsense.

It's possible that the people who are denying any knowledge of the episodes really don't know anything about them. Denials haven't come from any names we would know.

My hopes are as low as I can keep them.

Call me Mr. Cynical, but I'll believe it when I see it.

---
Actually, if one did have an episode or two stashed away you could make all kinds of demands depending on what they were: you could get a pole dancing display from Karen Gillan in exchange for 'The Evil of the Daleks', or a pole dancing display from Matthew Waterhouse in exchange for an unedited episode of 'The Dominators'.
---
You can demand what you want, doesn't mean you'll actually get it. ;)

---
Call me Mr. Cynical, but I'll believe it when I see it.
---
Personally, I'll believe it when I've obtained and watched the full set of DVDs.

DWM: 'These six men had known about the existence of Air Lock since July, and The Underwater Menace Episode 2 since September, but agreed to keep it between themselves until Missing Believed Wiped. [In DECEMBER!] "You hear these recoveries being announced, but then you have to wait months and months before you can see it. Well, what better way to avoid that criticism than to show it at a public event?"' - are you people for REAL? Leaving aside the fact that MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of us had to wait YEARS to see Air Lock, and GOD KNOWS HOW MANY YEARS IF NOT DECADES to see Underwater Menace Part 2...Don't you REALISE what the secrecy has DONE to fandom? The Omnirumour is a monster YOU created.

'To find out that those wonderful story titles and settings listed in The Making of Doctor Who were things that would always be denied to me seemed so wrong. It was the absence of those episodes that committed me to the show' - Rob Shearman. That's totally perverse but I do get it.

'When I was a kid, I remember praying to God, and offering him a deal: he could have five years off my life, say, if he restored the archives in full...' - Yeah, I totally get THAT too.

Any further news on this find of all these lost episodes? Or is Ian Levine just blowing more smoke up his a**?

No NEWS. Approximately fifty million new posts on this subject on Gallifrey Base, though...

With hilarious consequences...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/106-doctor-who-episodes-uncovered-2343474

Wow. Earth just keeps getting weirder and weirder.

Take that article with an incredibly large grain of salt. Ethiopia did not buy any Troughton Who and so the most we could hope for is about 11 episodes.

That being said- 11 episodes is 11 FREAKING EPISODES!!!!

As I said, I'll believe it when I see it.

Well you asked about it Tim so don't get snarky when someone answers....

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/106-doctor-who-episodes-uncovered-2343474

Well, at least it's refreshingly honest about its source. Some bloke told them a friend told him.

There's a lot of commentary on Gallifrey Base about how the Mirror is being shockingly cavalier with the facts.

Which is ironic, given that this is actually published in the People.

Meanwhile, Ian Levine on Twitter:

"WHAT THE HELL IS THIS ?????????????"

Look, I told the BBC if they don't pick up these 106 episodes I found in my sofa cushions I'm going to use them for a barbecue next weekend!

Good to see you're reading previous posts Em so you didn't repost an article already posted by Kate...

...oh wait....

I reposted the link to make it clear I was responding to that particular post.

I guess Levine doesn't like anyone else stealing his thunder, even if he is only blowing hot air.

Well, the Ark of the Covenant is supposed to be in Ethiopia, so I guess 106 lost episodes being there too isn't so far fetched. What's a miracle more or less between friends?

I'll call Indiana Jones now. I'm sure he'll get right on it.

For Emily:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Jones

Oh dear ••••••• GAWD:

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-10-06/doctor-who-newly-discovered-lost-episodes-to-be-released-for-sale-this-week

I won't believe it until we have an official non-denial from the BBC!

This is eaither the greatest news ever or the prelude for the greatest let down ever. Either way, I'm with Kitten on that one. Better yet, I need the actual DVD's in my hands, or the downloaded files on my computer.

I need the actual DVD's in my hands, or the downloaded files on my computer.

I wouldn't go QUITE that far. I mean, we all KNOW that Underwater Menace Part Two was discovered YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS ago, and us plebs just haven't been deemed worthy of actually SEEING it yet.

Of course, they're not saying WHICH episodes will be released (one will probably by the Underwater Menace episode that Em has been gas-bagging on about like it will be the greatest thing since....well...EVER... but will probably be ripped to shreds and called boring and stupid by her several seconds after the first viewing)

So those of us who live in countries where iTunes doesn't exist are getting screwed (assuming it's real).

Maybe the BBC website will allow it to be downloaded from their site as well. Dunno.

the latest rumour says it's Enemy of the World and four episodes of The Web of Fear. Of course they''ll be Aust/NZ prints and cut to ribbons.

but Judi- they have the censor cuts from Australia...

Not for the early Hartnell stories (Marco Polo, The Reign of Terror etc.)
They were destroyed before Damien Shanahan could get to them.

This got mentioned on the radio this morning, they referenced The Crusades and another episode that I can't remember at the moment.

I thought it was just The Mirror being as up to speed with events as normal, and copying something from months ago to fill up space.

I reiterate my comment from June 25th - I'll believe it when I've obtained and watched the full set of DVDs.

===
the Ark of the Covenant is supposed to be in Ethiopia
===
I thought it was in Area 51. ;)

I reiterate my comment from June 25th - I'll believe it when I've obtained and watched the full set of DVDs.

So when you walk into a shop and see the dvd sitting there all official you won't believe it? When you hear Emily ripping every episode to shreds as the most boring half-hour since the last missing episode she watched, you STILL won't believe it??

Well, I should confess I wouldn't've paid for an iTune file anyway and then pay again later for a DVD. Apple has never gotten any of my money yet.

I remain skeptical, but as Rodney points out, there does come a time prior to actually watching them in my DVD player when I will accept they really do exist. A press conference is probably all it would take. And an apology for making me buy a poorly cartooned DVD of Ice Warriors which they released after knowing what they had, unless that remains incomplete.

We're all talking if this is a confirmed fact, when it's still rumours.

Isn't the Mirror the British equivalent to the National Enquirer? You know, the papers that say Elvis is alive and living happily in Bora Bora? The papers that say that Amelia Earhart and Judge Crater were abducted by aliens and will be returned to Earth soon? If that is the case, I would take ANYTHING this paper says with a grain of salt.

"Isn't the Mirror the British equivalent to the National Enquirer?"

No, that would be something like the Daily Sport.

In any case, we're all talking about the Radio Times, which is saying something very different to the Mirror.

---
So when you walk into a shop and see the dvd sitting there all official you won't believe it? When you hear Emily ripping every episode to shreds as the most boring half-hour since the last missing episode she watched, you STILL won't believe it??
---
Well, they could be empty boxes, and any DVDs contained within could be blank, or only partially written. ;)

And it depends on whether I can somehow watch all of them before Emily starts ripping holes in them - I think multiple screens might be necessary to achieve that particular feat .

The Mirror's basically The Sun (and the Sun's sunday equivalent was The News Of The World, which should give most people an idea of the standard of "journalism" involved), but with a very slightly different political leaning.

I can't think of a US equivalent, the only US papers I'm really even sightly familiar with are USA Today and the NYP - which are what we'd call broadsheets (The Times, Independant et al).

Though ironically both The Times and The Independent are now published exclusively in tabloid size...

So, who's looking forward to seeing The Myth Makers?

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2013/oct/07/doctor-who-early-episodes-recovered-bbc

All aboard...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24448063

I don't know. Is the BBC a credible source?

Apparently Web of Fear is the cut version so not all the cuts have been restored because they don't have all of them.

So, who's looking forward to seeing The Myth Makers?

I can't say it would top my only-for-this-moment-have-the-generations-of-my-fathers-lived list, but there's every chance that it is actually brilliant and hilarious.

And it would be kinda nice to find out.

So who's actively hoping no more Galaxy 4 has been recovered?

Is the BBC a credible source?

No.

To say they couldn't organise a ••••-up in a brewery would be an insult to people who can't organise ••••-ups in breweries.

We'll probably end up with only two completed stories - The Underwater Menace and The Space Pirates.

Ian Levine's twitter feed over the last couple of days has been wonderful in a "want-to-turn-away-but-can't-stop-looking" kind of way.

Surely everyone now agrees with About Time 2's assessment that The Space Pirates' rep is only poor because the only episode that survives is wonky and misleading?

Surely you overestimate the amount of effort I'm willing to invest in overturning that opinion.

---
To say they couldn't organise a ••••-up in a brewery would be an insult to people who can't organise ••••-ups in breweries.
---
Agreed, at least the second group would be able to locate a brewery to fail to organise said party, while the BBC moved everyone to Manchester where they shut down the Boddington's brewery years ago, away from west London where they at least had the Fuller's one (and a nice pint it produces too) down the road in Chiswick.

Anyone want to make any crazy predictions before The Moment of Truth?

The most consistent rumours over the last few months have been Marco/Web/Enemy plus some odd episodes. Unlike Graham I'm praying to non-existent deities to give me a complete Underwater Menace, which would certainly explain why the BBC haven't been bothered to show us episode 2 (though, of course, see above re breweries). So I'm wildly guessing 27. Anything less would be heartbreaking after all those '90' claims.

The Feast of Steven, another episode from Galaxy Four, an episode of Space Pirates with all the action edited out and the Ian Levine/JNT sex tape. ;-)

They're exactly the same as some of the episodes we've already got, but made up of footage filmed by the other cameras in the studio? ;)

More seriously, I'm hoping for the obvious one - Tenth Planet episode 4.

But I'll guess that there's probably the originals of the ones Cosgrove Hall animated.

I would love both Troughton Dalek stories complete plus the aforementioned tenth planet episode 4 (although given it's coming out on dvd next month that seems unlikely)

Really- why should we complainn about the episodes that have been found (whatever they are). THEY ARE NEW WHO TO US!!!

And I daresay, I will be far more excited to see these episodes than the 50th Anniversary story....

BTW- apparently Frazer Hines and Deb Watling are involved in the launch of the missing episodes so that seems to indicate something from Season 5...

It would be nice for Ms. Watling, considering most of her episodes were destroyed.

And I daresay, I will be far more excited to see these episodes than the 50th Anniversary story....

I think we all will.

EVEN ME.

What a devastating indictment of the Moffat era...

Well we now have Enemy of the World complete and Web of Fear all complete minus episode 3. Brilliant! What's more, they'll be available on iTunes before the get released on DVD.

Not good enough.

Want MORE!

I DISTINCTLY remember thinking, when the Air Lock/Underwater Menace 2 thing broke, how INFINITELY thankful I was that nothing had leaked, or I'd be moaning my head off instead of being over the MOON...

Nine more episodes for you to tear to shreds. Better than a kick in the teeth. I reckon there's more but they haven't finished with the remastering.

I'm trying to feel the appropriate levels of rapturous happiness, I really am, but it's just not heppening. Probably because I'm so bloody tired. Haven't had more than half a night's sleep at a time in the four or five days since the story broke. I've been too excited. And now that I'm not feeling remotely excited and desperately want to go to bed RIGHT NOW, I've gotta stay up till midnight. Bloody BBC.

Why do you have to stay up? The news will be there in the morning. Get some sleep.

The DVD of Enemy is slated for November 22. I guess I can wait. Or more accurately, I guess I have no choice unless they pop up on Youtube, etc.

I reckon there's more but they haven't finished with the remastering.

It doesn't bode well that the first batch of two stories contains an incomplete story though...

I downloaded Web of Fear and will get the Enemy DVD next month.

It doesn't bode well that the first batch of two stories contains an incomplete story though...
Saving the best for last? I see your point though.

Good fact: officially more Troughton episodes now exist than don't, for the first time since the jukings.

Good fact 2: there was a time when only 4 episodes of Season Five existed, making it the least represented of all Doctor Who series in the archives.

Why do you have to stay up? The news will be there in the morning. Get some sleep.

Excellent advice.

Impossible to follow.

Now I'll be watching whatever-I'm-watching-today (haven't decided yet - enjoying the suspense too much) through a haze of exhaustion. But what the hell.

The DVD of Enemy is slated for November 22. I guess I can wait. Or more accurately, I guess I have no choice unless they pop up on Youtube, etc.

You know, if you bought an iTunes version now, that would enable you to recoup your investment later on by waiting a few months AFTER the DVDs came out, till they've drastically fallen in price.

(Plus, Ian Levine says that the more that get purchased on iTunes, the more likely the BBC are to provide us with futher lost episodes, but as I swore never to take any more notice of the hysterical liar, that's not a deciding factor.)

It doesn't bode well that the first batch of two stories contains an incomplete story though...

I live in hope that the BBC'll release a COMPLETE Web AFTER they've got us all to cough up for an incomplete one (or TWO incomplete ones, what with iTunes and DVDs).

Well, it's FINALLY struck me. The cat was trying to gnaw my arm off (as is his wont) and I suddenly found myself telling him: 'I have a cat. I have Web and Enemy. I have eight glorious years of New Who. I am a VERY LUCKY HUMAN BEING.'

If the BBC had looked harder in 1984 we might have had the other Season 5 stories sold to Nigeria

You know, if you bought an iTunes version now, that would enable you to recoup your investment later on by waiting a few months AFTER the DVDs came out, till they've drastically fallen in price.

I'm not being stingy. iTunes is not available here (except for free files or unless I have a foreign credit card).

You know, all that 'more exciting than the fiftieth anniversary story' stuff was absolute rot. Watching Enemy of the World wasn't REMOTELY as exciting as watching an episode of New Who (well, unlesss it was Akhaten or Black Spot, obviously).

What it WAS was something just as important and delightful - it was like coming home. Like meeting an old, old friend after a long absence. Like remembering a forgotten piece of one's childhood (not that I'm NEARLY old enough to be a Troughton Child, thank you very much). After the audio and the novelisation it wasn't NEW, but it was just...really, really warm and lovely. A shard of myself and of human history that just slotted effortlessly into place, as if I'd been the one neglecting it, all these years...

I felt the same way watching "Web of Fear".

Surely the highest praise Emily's ever voiced for a B&W story.

Wow- such a beautiful post Em.

The people who were UTTERLY CORRECT about their ABSURD Web and Enemy claims for MONTHS on Gallifrey Base in the teeth of numerous official denials are sounding EXCEEDINGLY OPTIMISTIC about a Happy Announcement post-Day of the Doctor...

Marco Polo in case people were wondering....

This has just been posted on various forums, if this is true - and the guy who posted it, Puqui, has been very reliable with his info so far - then we could have moved from 106 to ~10 missing episodes in a couple of years which will be incredible!

Season 1 & 2 - All episodes found, duplicates, probably most not needed. Total duplicates found is about 200.

Marco Polo - 2 copies found by Phil, 1 copy from a collector, all need to be combined to produce the best quality complete version. Don't think we'll get this in the next month or so (I know I've previously said all ready to go, but now think it will take a bit of work to get finally ready).

Reign of Terror - 4 & 5 found, all good copies, shouldn't be a problem to get ready at any time.

Crusade - Both missing episodes found, all 4 episodes back. Julian Glover was told it was back, but BEFORE 50th. He probably did meet Phil at the 50th, but knew before.

Time Meddler - Duplicate copy found, much better quality than we have, all complete.

Galaxy 4 - All 4 found, all complete, Duplicate of episode 3 should have ending so good news.

MTTU - Probably back, believe it was played in Singapore and shipped to Ghana for our friend Phil to pick it up and ship it back to the UK in 2011.

Myth Makers - All 4 found, rumour is 1 still missing, but good sources say all back, so I'll go with them.

DMP - I'll be a tease, see the end for more details.

Massacre - All back, being prepared, restoration has at least started, may even have finished, think it has. DVD preparation was started in Nov.

Celestial Toymaker - All back, work started on this after the Massacre.

Savages - All back, not heard much specific on this story. No idea why, probably no reason to worry, just other titles taking priority I expect.

War Machines - All back, I expect they will be complete, so good news to complete the missing material from this story.

Smugglers - All found, starting to hear bits and pieces, so expect we will see it this year. I disregarding the stuff I heard about Molesworth doing some DVD extras as he has denied them, but other stuff makes me think it may be one of the titles they are starting to work on.

Tenth Planet - Episode 4 found, twice I hear. Imagine it, 2 copies after all this time. At least one copy found in the UK, linked to the BFI (don't know in which capacity, may have been a lead of theirs).
Don't expect it soon, but it will be announced this year.

Power of the Daleks - All episodes found, 3 separate finds, probably all from collectors. Not a Phil find (hello PV!). At least one episodes was in bits, so some material may still be missing. If they are, the gaps can be filled with some work, so we should be able to get the complete thing.

Highlanders - All complete, will probably be one of the last stories released.

UWM - All found, animation now stopped. Duplicates exist of the episodes of this story, DVD will be released with the original episodes, probably in the summer.

Moonbase - All found, DVD will have animation, move along, it will all come good. Dan Hall, thanks for your efforts to fill the gaps, despite the good news that it is probably not all needed, appreciate the effort!

Macra - All found, good source says being restored, so not long to wait for it I would expect.

Faceless Ones - All found, no real info on condition or anything else.

Evil - All found, all in great condition, bloody good source for this. VERY GOOD. You'd know the name.

Tomb - Hear a duplicate of this tale has been found, no idea if in better nick or what.

Abominable Snowmen - All found, water damage to some episodes. Should be fine, but will need specialist recovery to ensure it can be recovered.

Ice Warriors - Stories vary. Currently I think one episode found, one still missing. Lead found to episodes in Australia, so I'm hopeful on this one, fingers crossed on lead.

Web of Fear - Yes, episode 3 exists, not in bad condition, found same time as the rest by Phil. May not be on the DVD if the DVD release date doesn't move, but this will be announced this year. Don't know when, but it will be. (If it's not, feel free to have a go!)

Fury - All found, great source on this one. VERY GOOD (and different source).

Wheel - All found, rumours were one may still be missing, but good sources say all back and Eddie at Skaro says it also and I'm a big Eddie fan, happy to go with him on this.

Invasion - Hear one found, one still missing. I think that is possible, but wouldn't be surprised if both were still missing.
However, there are good sources who think it's both back. My feelings are one found/one missing based on the overall stuff I hear, with no-one being able to persuade me fully on any story regarding these episodes.

Space Pirates - I'm going with 2 episodes found. Some sources say all back, but I think 2 is more likely. I can live with 50% of the story as a worst case, that's better than I expected a month ago.


DMP - ok, the biggie. I think 5 potential episodes that may be recovered (I'm disregarding the whole story found tale, but happy to be wrong on this one). 3 separate recoveries if the 5 episodes is right. All collectors and PV again, not Phil. All UK finds (no surprise). I'm not saying much more on this one, but there are bloody good stories on all these episodes, I might be an idiot to believe some of them, but I will post them as soon as I can. You really couldn't make it up!

Pah. Like I WANTED missing War Machines material anyway...

...the rest really would be QUITE GOOD NEWS, wouldn't it. And Puqui WAS spot-on MONTHS ago, when all the OFFICIAL sources were making him out to be a deluded liar...

...But when? WHEN!

To be honest I'm going to adopt a more cynical Kevin/Tim approach. I'll wait until the BBC announces things. Or Ian Levine.

Don't worry, as soon as we introduce Rodney to "Tommy Tickler" from The Smugglers, he'll come around.

I'm well aware of Mr. Tickler Judi! Can you provide a link to the post?

Hmmm... April Fools Day seems to have come early this year.

I'll wait until the BBC announces things. Or Ian Levine.

And considering what I think of Ian Levine, I'll wait for the BBC to announce it.

Ian Levine eats chicken... which he gets from under his breast ala Fat Bastard in Austin Powers.

LOL! That's a good one, Judi

Of course, Emily probably has no idea who "Austin Powers" is.

Of course, some starving African children would no longer be starving once they had eaten Levine over several years.

Regrettably, I don't believe Ian Levine scours African countries personally. Unlike ex-hero* Phil Morris...

*Just GIMME MY MARCO POLO! NOW! And you can be a hero again...

Any more updates on this?

Just another fifty billion pages of debate on Gallifrey Base.

I guess no real news then.

Steve Roberts of the restoration team was at Gallifrey One in LA recently on a panel about the missing episodes where he debunked pretty much all of Judi's list (known as the "Omni-rumour") one by one and then ripped up the piece of paper at the end.

HOWEVER, he then went of Radio Free Skaro and basically said he was sure that Phil Whatisface had more episodes he had chosen not to hand over yet.

Emily- assemble your hordes of ninja cats....

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-02-26/doctor-who-episode-hunter-philip-morris-on-the-search-for-lost-tapes-expect-the-unexpected

Sounds like more smoke and mirrors, unfortunately.

Look, the ONLY WAY Philip Morris could have 'NOT WATCHED WEB OF FEAR' is if he's got his feet up, watching Power of the Daleks, Evil of the Daleks, The Crusades, Marco Polo and The Daleks Masterplan on a constant loop...

Adolf Hitler Doesn't Like Ian Levine Either...

Starburst piece on the search: http://www.starburstmagazine.com/features/feature-articles/8067-feature-doctor-who-the-missing-episodes

Levine does not get much love in the comments.

Never thought I'd agree with Hitler on anything, but here it is.

Hmmmm.... still no announcements or missing episodes. I guess that whole "omnirumour" thing was a load of bollocks then.

But the people who told us about Web and Enemy are PROMISING more! Lots, lots more! And unless they're INCREDIBLY lucky guessers (down to the missing Web 3, new DVD design covers, etc) they've got some pretty reliable sources. And bear in mind people are suggesting that the evil greedy life-ruining hoarder - I mean our wonderful intrepid HERO - found Enemy and Web in 2011...

Look, I want the rumours to be true as much as you do, but it seems odd that they don't say "This is what we've got, we're in the process of remastering them and we will put them up when they're done.". If they honestly have THAT many episodes then clearly a LOT of people would need to be involved in the cover-up which would be nothing short of miraculous...

Only if they were actually restoring them for our delectation. If, however, Philip Morris is sitting on a large pile of 'em waiting for the BBC to make him a better offer...

...then feel free to set the ninja cats (or Kate) onto them.

The guy's trekked round some of the most dangerous areas on the planet. He's survived flood, famine and plague. He's survived cosmic wars and holocausts...um, well, kidnapping anyway. Kate and the ninja cats wouldn't stand a chance.

If this guy has all these episodes, why doesn't he just come out and say it? Why all the secrecy?

1. Does he have them? People may want to believe he has them, but that don't make it so.

2. He might have containers marked as various episodes, but until watched who knows what film is inside, not to mention what state are they in? Be annoying to have an episode of Marco Polo only to have watching it destroy the tape.

3. One of the links above mentioned that he has to negotiate with various people and being too loose lipped could screw up future deals.

1. Does he have them? People may want to believe he has them, but that don't make it so.

If he DOESN'T have 'em, it's pretty mean not to just come out and SAY so, and put us out of our misery. (Of course, I'm not sure what form of wording would be enough, after he screaming 'THEY ARE NOT MISSING THEY ARE DESTROYED THE END' at us shortly before producing Web and Enemy.)

2. He might have containers marked as various episodes, but until watched who knows what film is inside, not to mention what state are they in? Be annoying to have an episode of Marco Polo only to have watching it destroy the tape.

His ENTIRE COMPANY is DESIGNED to deal with such things. And apparently you just need to gently unreel a tiny bit of whatever-film it is and hold it up to the light. If it's the opening credits for The Macra Terror (or whatever), it'll be pretty obvious.

And I know he's (allegedly) got THOUSANDS of containers, but...IF YOU'VE GOT ONE MARKED WHO YOU GIVE IT PRIORITY. It's not rocket-science.

3. One of the links above mentioned that he has to negotiate with various people and being too loose lipped could screw up future deals.

Pah, yeah, heard laods of excuses along these lines, have no idea how true any of 'em are.

And apparently you just need to gently unreel a tiny bit of whatever-film it is and hold it up to the light.
Um, even that could potentially damage the film if it's not handled carefully enough...

Heck, some early American film stock is so volatile just opening the canister can result in the film bursting into flame.

I would hope that the BBC was using a more stable film stock when they made copies for overseas sales, but then again, it is the BBC and they're not exactly known for their intelligent decisions about Doctor Who.

Um, even that could potentially damage the film if it's not handled carefully enough...

It's what their company is FOR. They'd handle it carefully enough.

Heck, some early American film stock is so volatile just opening the canister can result in the film bursting into flame.

Luckily I don't give a •••• about early American film stock

I would hope that the BBC was using a more stable film stock when they made copies for overseas sales, but then again, it is the BBC and they're not exactly known for their intelligent decisions about Doctor Who.

Oh.

Yeah, that's true.

Still, Web and Enemy look PRETTY GOOD for stuff that was festering on a humid Nigerian shelf for decades, so hoepfully the BBC have (accidentally) managed to do SOMETHING right for a change.

It's a fairly safe assumption that whatever film stock the BBC was using in the mid-1960s it wouldn't have been the combustible stuff that caused all those fires decades earlier. The problem is more likely to be with deterioration, neglect and wear than the likelihood of it going up more spectacularly than any of the pyrotechnics in 'Battlefield'.

Still, this Morris fellow should just come out and say what he's got.

THAT'S the understatement of the millennium.

TELL US WHAT YOU'VE GOT! JUST BLOODY TELL US!

Please?

So the latest interesting development in the whole Missing Episode saga....

Firstly, if you are on Twitter and aren't following Ian Levine than you are truly missing some wonderous amounts of paranoia.
Poor Ian had a stroke a couple months back and when Phil Morris tweeted him a get well soon message Ian basically bit his head off with a (now deleted) tweet calling all sorts of names that would be red-dotted around here.

BUT the latest story doing the rounds (put as much or little salt on this as you will) is that Phil won't release any more missing eps until the current production team is replaced.

Firstly, why does PHIL get to decide what happens to them? Surely these episodes are the property of the BBC?

Secondly, IF this is true, where does he get off deciding how the current show should be made. Just be grateful it IS being made AT ALL!!!

As I said, how much of this is true I leave to everyone. I'm not convinced there are new find until I watch the blessed things with my own eyes...

PS- WHEN IS UNDERWATER MENACE EP 2 GETTING A DVD RELEASE?!?!?!?!

Poor Ian had a stroke a couple months back

Punishment for all those years he badmouthed JNT. Karma sure is a b*tch, ain't she Ian.


Phil Morris tweeted him a get well soon message Ian basically bit his head off with a (now deleted) tweet calling all sorts of names that would be red-dotted around here.

So, even having a stroke doesn't stop Levine from being the A Number One Jerk. Figures.

BUT the latest story doing the rounds (put as much or little salt on this as you will) is that Phil won't release any more missing eps until the current production team is replaced.

Oh, that's not the LATEST story. The LUDICROUS claim that Phil Morris is basically demanding the sacking of Steven Moffat has been part of the Omnirumour since the Year Dot.

It's just that Phil has recently been making hysterical anti-Moffat comments publicly online, which suddenly makes the most ridiculous part of the Omnirumour feel actually quite plausible.

Of course, the GOOD news is that if THAT most bizarre bit of it is correct, maybe the rest of the grotesquely implausible stories are too and our missing episode total will eventually be reduced to single figures *blissful sigh*

The bad news is that Moffat's showing no signs of leaving.

And why the hell SHOULD he? Even in the depths of my post-Listen despair, I fail to see why Phil Morris should get to blackmail him with stolen property.

Firstly, why does PHIL get to decide what happens to them? Surely these episodes are the property of the BBC?

Yeah, that. If Phil is CLEARLY not playing nice any more, can the BBC not get a legal injunction (or, um, something) to recover THEIR OWN PROPERTY?

Secondly, IF this is true, where does he get off deciding how the current show should be made. Just be grateful it IS being made AT ALL!!!

Quite.

So, even having a stroke doesn't stop Levine from being the A Number One Jerk. Figures.

Look, there is now the awful possibility that a lot of what Ian Levine said was actually...um...TRUE. Maybe Phil Morris really IS hoarding our precious, beloved episodes for blackmail purposes.

We just don't KNOW.

If there's one thing that REALLY CONFUSES me, it's NOT KNOWING whether I should worship someone as a god or shove 'em into a vat of molten gold.

Yeah, that. If Phil is CLEARLY not playing nice any more, can the BBC not get a legal injunction (or, um, something) to recover THEIR OWN PROPERTY?

In which case he could destroy them out of spite. Which seems a plausible reaction, going from what I've been hearing about the guy. Possibly a risk the BBC is not prepared to take just yet.

If there's one thing that REALLY CONFUSES me, it's NOT KNOWING whether I should worship someone as a god or shove 'em into a vat of molten gold.

They are not mutually exclusive

In which case he could destroy them out of spite. Which seems a plausible reaction, going from what I've been hearing about the guy

He COULDN'T, he just COULDN'T, surely.

He's a Fan.

And there are several million people out there who would LYNCH him.

Dammit, if only he hadn't brought QUITE so many reels back from Africa we could do a commando raid on his warehouse to snatch his hostages and return them in triumph to their rightful home. As it is, I can just picture a bunch of Fans stumbling around in the dark, desperately waving candles at 100,000,000 reels of film in the hope of spotting the Magic Words, tripping over and setting fire to the whole warehouse...

As it is, I can just picture a bunch of Fans stumbling around in the dark, desperately waving candles at 100,000,000 reels of film in the hope of spotting the Magic Words

Nah, that's not how you do it. You just grab the lot and sort them out later after you return to your arch-criminal lair.

Might I suggest you take over the leadership of our embryo commando team? Well, you and Mandy obviously. She has the military experience, you have the knowledge of arch-criminal lairs...

Punishment for all those years he badmouthed JNT
By 'badmouthed' do you mean 'supplied him with male prostitutes'?

Yeah, that. If Phil is CLEARLY not playing nice any more, can the BBC not get a legal injunction (or, um, something) to recover THEIR OWN PROPERTY?

According to someone on Gallifrey Base, the films are deemed to have been abandoned and therefore no longer legally the BBC's property. However, if they are telerecordings made for overseas sale - and they can hardly be anything else! - then it seems at some point they were supposed to be returned to the BBC. I'm not sure that they could be considered legally abandoned if a third-party failed to fulfil this condition, though the amount of time it took for the BBC to respond might be a factor. (Then again, it's a matter of public record that the BBC have been looking to recover missing episodes since the late 1970s, which might muddy the legal waters even further.)

According to someone on Gallifrey Base, the films are deemed to have been abandoned and therefore no longer legally the BBC's property. However, if they are telerecordings made for overseas sale - and they can hardly be anything else! - then it seems at some point they were supposed to be returned to the BBC. I'm not sure that they could be considered legally abandoned if a third-party failed to fulfil this condition, though the amount of time it took for the BBC to respond might be a factor. (Then again, it's a matter of public record that the BBC have been looking to recover missing episodes since the late 1970s, which might muddy the legal waters even further.)

And once again the lawyers are the only winners in the scenario.

Then again, maybe the reason no more eps have been released is because there are no more aside from what's already been released?

Tim - Punishment for all those years he badmouthed JNT. Karma sure is a b*tch, ain't she Ian.

So, even having a stroke doesn't stop Levine from being the A Number One Jerk. Figures.

Wow! Pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot.

Didn't you used to be a more pleasant person?

Kitten - By 'badmouthed' do you mean 'supplied him with male prostitutes'?
Maybe he was referring to an oral sex technique? *bah dum bump*

maybe the reason no more eps have been released is because there are no more aside from what's already been released?

Possibly. In which case Philip Morris is torturing us. For fun.

---
According to someone on Gallifrey Base, the films are deemed to have been abandoned and therefore no longer legally the BBC's property. However, if they are telerecordings made for overseas sale - and they can hardly be anything else! - then it seems at some point they were supposed to be returned to the BBC. I'm not sure that they could be considered legally abandoned if a third-party failed to fulfil this condition, though the amount of time it took for the BBC to respond might be a factor. (Then again, it's a matter of public record that the BBC have been looking to recover missing episodes since the late 1970s, which might muddy the legal waters even further.)
---
I guess it depends on the terms of the original contract - the actual physical media may have been sold to the broadcaster(s), while the copyright for the actual episodes remained with the BBC.

If Phil Morris then bought the media from the broadcaster(s), then the BBC would have no rights to the physical media, but, without the copyright, he would have no rights to do anything commercial with it - at best he'd be able to sit at home and watch it himself if he had the right equipment.

---
And once again the lawyers are the only winners in the scenario.
---
Ain't that the truth!

I guess it depends on the terms of the original contract - the actual physical media may have been sold to the broadcaster(s), while the copyright for the actual episodes remained with the BBC.

The complicating issue is that it seems the films were returned to BBC Enterprises for junking. I'm not sure why that should have happened if they weren't BBC property any longer.

---
The complicating issue is that it seems the films were returned to BBC Enterprises for junking. I'm not sure why that should have happened if they weren't BBC property any longer
---
In that case, they were still BBC property - if they weren't the BBC wouldn't have cared what happened to them.

Which I guess makes the contract more of a rental agreement than an outright sale.

According to Wiped!, the procedure was to make a 16mm telerecording of an episode that would be sent to a number of broadcasters abroad, each broadcaster sending the copy to the next one in line after they were done with it, with the last one on the list returning the copy to the BBC. The copy remained the property of the BBC the whole time. Needless to say, many copies never made it to the end of the line because of sketchy administrations or political situations in some of the countries those copies were sent to.

Things really changed when color tv became widely available. The BBC then felt that the old black and white episodes would no longer be requested enough to make it worth their while, and they stopped offering them and caring about the copies still extant. It's also the time when most of the junking of the older episode master tapes occured.

If that's the case then the only issue is whether the existence of a junking procedure would have meant that the BBC could be deemed to have abandoned the films even before Enterprises had received copies back.

I'd suspect probably not, as intention to destroy is not the same as actual destruction. Or, to put it another way, even if I plan to chuck out my Dalek Sec Voice Changer Mask tomorrow morning, if someone were to nick it tonight it would still be theft.

Wow! Pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot.

Didn't you used to be a more pleasant person?

WTF Keith. I had no quarrel with you, so why are you trying to pick a fight with me? Is Ian Levine your best buddy, or are you just one of the ciphers that worship at his alter.

My dislike of Ian Levine has never been a state secret around here. He is, in my opinion, a backstabbing, petty little man.

JNT gave Levine access to Doctor Who that most fans, and I'm thinking of our Mod here, would kill for. And how does Levine pay JNT back for this act of kindness. He partners up with Eric "I Can't Let A Decades Old Grudge Go" Saward and proceeds to badmouth JNT at any given opportunity.

And if you read Rodney's post, Phil Morris sent Levine a get well message, when he heard of Levine's stroke. How does Levine reply? Does he say "Hey, thanks dude." No, he proceeds to bad mouth Morris in, to quote Rodney: "tweet calling all sorts of names that would be red-dotted around here."

So, no Keith, I have no use for Ian Levine. F**k him!

And as for you, Keith, if you're looking for a fight, I'm afraid you'll have to look elsewhere. I have better things to do with my time.

Thank you and good day.

Emily - In which case Philip Morris is torturing us. For fun.

Did he actually say there were more? If so, then yeah, torture. If not, then he may not know for sure, especially if that "100,000,000 reels" you mentioned is a real number, it would certainly take time to go through that many.

Tim - why are you trying to pick a fight with me?

Why do so many people these days think I'm trying to pick a fight? I hate fighting.

It just seems that since you've come back your posts have been angrier. (Part of me wonders if a certain banned poster had hacked your account.)

Admittedly I haven't been keeping up with the posts on the recent episode threads of Doctor Who (because I haven't seen them yet) so maybe I have missed posts where you seem like the old friendly Tim.

I simply posted the pot calling the kettle black comment because of the irony of you talking about Levine getting payback for the mean things he said and then you following it up with saying a mean thing about him.

Had it been one sentence, or the other, I probably wouldn't have said anything.

Did he actually say there were more? If so, then yeah, torture.

He's been tweeting pictures that HINT at all sorts of missing episodes! It should be banned under the Geneva Convention!

If not, then he may not know for sure, especially if that "100,000,000 reels" you mentioned is a real number, it would certainly take time to go through that many.

I made that figure up. Yeah, he's got a lot but there's SIMPLY NO WAY he hasn't had time to check the labels of anything that MIGHT POSSIBLY be Who.

JNT gave Levine access to Doctor Who that most fans, and I'm thinking of our Mod here, would kill for. And how does Levine pay JNT back for this act of kindness...

By giving him access to male prostitutes that most fans, and I'm especially thinking of our Mod here, would probably not wanting hanging around our favourite series?

He partners up with Eric "I Can't Let A Decades Old Grudge Go" Saward and proceeds to badmouth JNT at any given opportunity.

You do realise that Saward has said that he doesn't bear a grudge and that a lot of the time his working relationship with JN-T was perfectly OK? And that "teaming up" makes it sound like you're describing the Riddler and the Penguin getting together to rob the First Bank of Gotham?

Why do so many people these days think I'm trying to pick a fight? I hate fighting.

It must be the way you're wording your posts, Keith. If other people have also though you were picking fights.


It just seems that since you've come back your posts have been angrier. (Part of me wonders if a certain banned poster had hacked your account.)

Let's just say that recent unpleasant events here have soured my enjoyment of this site. And this was happening before I went into my self imposed exile.

That being said, seeing me in this area is a rare occasion, as I mostly now just limit myself to reviewing the new episodes.

No, a "certain banned poster" has not hacked my account. He would never come here, he said Doctor Who was stupid (don't bother with the pitch forks and torches, Emily, this fellow has been permanently banned from Nitcentral).


By giving him access to male prostitutes that most fans, and I'm especially thinking of our Mod here, would probably not wanting hanging around our favourite series?

Kate, we've been over this. WHY in the dead gods of Krypton do you believe everything that comes out of Levine's lying mouth? Seriously, why do so many worship at the alter of this guy? I don't get it.

As I said, Levine got access to Who material most fans would sell their souls for. You would think he would have been grateful to JNT for this. But instead, he constantly badmouths him and dredges up sick allegations without a shred of proof.

Backstabbers like Levine make me see red. Sometimes I want to punch this guy so hard, he'd come down in Australia (sorry about that, Rodney and Judi). Let the dingoes have him!


And that "teaming up" makes it sound like you're describing the Riddler and the Penguin getting together to rob the First Bank of Gotham?

I would NEVER insult the Riddler and the Penguin by associating them with Ian Levine.

Seriously, why do so many worship at the alter of this guy?

I'm not sure that pointing out that Ian Levine has self-admittedly benefitted from being a procurer of prostitutes is painting him in any kind of positive light.

Yeah... this seems totally a legit reason.....

It sounds more as if someone has made up a theory to fit the 'facts' rather than vice-versa. The idea that a copy of Power would be 'useless' because it's grainy (like we'd CARE!) or soundless (er...WE'VE GOT THE SOUND YOU MORONS) is rather silly.

The whole article is ridiculous, but guess who posted it on his twitter feed.....

Ah. It wouldn't be dear old Ian Levene, perchance?

Bob Monkhouse had a huge collection of old 16mm and 35mm films and it was rumoured that he might have had Missing Episodes, but when his collection was catalogued after his death, he turned out to only have a copy of The McGann Movie.

Another tragedy is that he was an early victim of the copyright mafia/copyright industry - he was taken to court and charged with illegally acquiring his films (he hadn't). Much of his collection was destroyed at the behest of the copyright mafia before the trial verdict - including things which would have been the sole surviving copies in the world.

---
It sounds more as if someone has made up a theory to fit the 'facts' rather than vice-versa. The idea that a copy of Power would be 'useless' because it's grainy (like we'd CARE!) or soundless (er...WE'VE GOT THE SOUND YOU MORONS) is rather silly.
---
Well, we, the obsessive fans who'll buy all the DVDs they produce may not care about the state of them, but BBCWW have to try and sell them to as many people as possible, and have all of the restoration work done as cheaply as they can get away with - cleaning up grainy film (which could range from speckled but usable to almost completely unwatchable and needing frame by frame compositing to rebuild what is there), cleaning up and resynching audio (especially if there's timing/censor cuts), all that's going to cost.

Is all what's listed as being in the email the truth? I don't know, and I'm not willing to come down on either side, but I guess only Philip Morris knows for sure...

Look up Bob Monkhouse the now-deceased British entertainer. He had a large collection of legally obtained old and rare films on actual film. The "copyright mafia" took him to court accusing him of "piracy". A lot of Monkhouse's collection was destroyed on order of the "copyright mafia" before the trial concluded in favour of Monkhouse. Much of what they destroyed would have been the last surviving copies of said material.

Maybe not-so annihilated after all!

I have made an incredible discovery that some of you might want to check out.

Every missing story, from Galaxy 4 and The Myth Makers to Fury From The Deep, The Macra Terror and even The Dalek Masterplan are on-line in a different form on Youtube.

You can see all of them by keying in Doctor Who and the title (example; Doctor Who The Macra Terror). One of the first choices will be a choice that will say '8 videos' or '12 videos', and that's the one you click on. From there you'll see each 25 minute episodet split into two parts (4 episodes = 8 videos), of approximately 9 to 13 minutes each.

The majority of these episodes have little footage left, or perhaps an episode or two, so what is missing has been replaced by the original telesnaps, or even promotional photos, BUT the main thing is that the original soundtrack, with the original actors, music and sound effects are intact on every story. They'll even add a little bit of special effects animation where possible, such as the flashing Dalek lights when they speak, or flashing lights on a control panel.

I know this isn't the greatest way to see these missing stories, and it might take a little getting used to, but haven't many of us grown up reading comic books with their static images or even the newspaper? I've already watched The Power of the Daleks, The Savages, and Galaxy 4, three stories I never would have believed I would ever see, and I'm completely hooked! I can't wait to see all of the others that we've been denied for all these past decades.

I'm done with waiting for some TV station in Zimbawee discovering 23 seconds of The Faceless Ones, and this has been a real eye-opener. At the very least, we can discuss these episodes with new insights here at Nitcentral after watching them.

Check them out and I think you'll enjoy them as much as I have.

I know this isn't the greatest way to see these missing stories

'Not the greatest way'? It's practically necrophilia.

haven't many of us grown up reading comic books with their static images

No I haven't!

At the very least, we can discuss these episodes with new insights here at Nitcentral after watching them.

So where are your Savages and Galaxy 4 reviews? Gimme, gimme!

Savages and Galaxy 4 make you long for the sweet release death would bring....

I have to admit, I have CONSIDERABLE sympathy with this viewpoint, but Steve obviously *shakes head in disbelief* ENJOYED them. (If I were Tennant I'd be shrieking 'IMPOSSIBLE!' at this point. If I were Hartnell I'd probably be looking round for a rock with which to remove him from the human gene-pool.)

How the hell is watching a Hartnell episode 'necrophilia'? If this youtube reconstruction is necrophilia, then what would you call actually watching 'The Time Warrior', which features a cast where most of them are dead, deader, and deadest now?
Anyways, there will be no reviews or comments from me, since appreciation of the series in its infancy seems sadly lacking around here in this age of fancy-shmancy high-tech new episodes, but that's just me-- Old School and I make apologies for it. Check out the youtube series or not, I don't care. I just thought fans would be interested in such a thing. Just trying to be helpful.
This will, however, be the last time I ever recommend a video or let anybody know about something new from the original series.

For heaven's sake don't take me so SERIOUSLY.

I'm just really, really desperate to see The Real Thing, not some Frankenstein's Monster stitched together out of the mutilated remnants of once-great episodes.

I've actually tried several telesnap reconstruction videos kindly given to me by a friend but I have an unfortunate tendency to hate them far worse than just listening to the audio (when at least I can get on with some housework and not bitterly regret the wasted hours).

If you can get pleasure out of them, good luck to you and PLEASE share what you love about 'em on Nitcentral.

Okay, I'm sorry I freaked out like that, Emily. Sometimes I'm probably a little TOO loyal to the original series, but like most people here, I've never, ever seen these missing episodes, and back in the day, the telesnaps published in Doctor Who Magazine were one of the greatest things they could have published, but that was then and this is now. To actually hear the soundtrack, to me, was one of the things that sold me on these internet telesnap adventures.
Considering I was under the impression that absolutely NO soundtracks existed (because the episodes, themselves, are missing), this just got me terribly enthusiastic about seeing episodes that I'd only read about.

I do like your 'Frankenstein' analogy, though, Emily. This became quite evident as I went through episode after episode, only to discover that not every poster has all 4, all 5, or all 6 episodes on their 'channel'. As such, there have been episodes I'd had to watch from two different posters, plus an episode I might have on video, myself. One of the worst posters is called 'doctorwhoanimator', and it's really awful. Very limited movement of characters (seemingly drawn by an 8-year old), usually just staring at each other, with only the soundtrack keeping the story going.

(In the 90's I bought The Hartnell Years, The Troughton Years, Daleks: The Early Years, and Cybermen: The Early Years on VHS, so I already had limited access to a few random episodes)

So far, this is what I've watched:

Power Of The Daleks
The Savages
Galaxy 4
The Macra Terror
The Myth Makers
Mission To The Unknown
The Dalek Masterplan
The Faceless Ones
The Highlanders

Frankly, despite the choppiness of the telesnaps, the (sometimes) poor quality of certain photos (taken off the TV in 1966, but looking more like a they came from a home-made camera from 1916!), I've enjoyed getting to know Troughton's Doctor more (considering he has far, far too many missing episodes to give a truly accurate impression of what a great Doctor he made.

Here are some random thoughts.

POWER OF THE DALEKSS;
It was an eye-opener to watch the first Troughton episode, and his first scenes after regenerating. He suffers from some painful hearing trouble and unfocused vision, which settles down, but then his peculiar behavior takes over, and it becomes the template for future strange behavior after future regenerations. He doesn't even acknowledge that he IS the Doctor at one point, telling Ben and Polly, "I don't look like him."

THE MYTH MAKERS;
They did a little bit of plotting to get Vicki interested in the guy she'd run away with, but there wasn't a good-bye scene between her and the Doctor. Not as bad as Ben and Polly's last episode.
And speaking of which...

THE FACELESS ONES:
I think I heard they almost hired that actress as a replacement for Ben and Polly (the one looking for her brother), but was her voice ever annoying! She was an early version of Melanie Bush that I wouldn't have liked at all.
Yikes. Ben and Polly are missing from this missing episode too much, and their leaving the Doctor seems tacked on at the last moment. Worse, the TARDIS has gone missing (leading into Evil Of The Daleks), but the Doctor doesn't tell them about it, even though you'd think he'd like their help.

THE DALEK MASTERPLAN;
I've always wanted to see this one, perhaps more than any other story.
Trust me; we aren't missing anything from losing Katarina. She provided nothing, other than saving the Doctor and Steven and Bret, at the cost of her own life, from an escaped criminal.
The episode set in the 1920's movie studio was cringe-worthy. To think they shoe-horned a (supposedly) humorous episode into the middle of a serious Dalek epic is strange to say the least.
At one point the Doctor, Steven, and Sara are transported through a transmit to another planet, and the process is obviously painful to all of them, but it's the Doctor's reaction I found most interesting.
All of them arrive unconscious and confused, but the Doctor is the one who pauses and checks his face, his hair, his hands. Viewers back then learned from him minutes later that it was just a transporter, and figured, 'Oh, he just wanted to make sure he was reassembled in one piece and not missing any parts."
However, back then there was no such thing as 'regeneration', so with the benefit of 21st century hindsight, it looks more like the Doctor is checking himself to see if he has regenerated, since he could have believed the process killed his first incarnation and triggered a regeneration while he was unconscious.
The Time Destructor sequence lasts much longer than I expected-- well over 5 minutes. And taking the hindsight factor into account, the Time Destructor shortened his first incarnation's life by at least a century (considering Sara ages and decays to nothing), so we got the Second Doctor sooner than he should have changed.
The First Doctor dealing with the Daleks on Vulcan (Power Of The Daleks), or meeting Jamie (The Highlanders), or meeting the Yeti and the Ice Warriors in his first form would have made for rather different episodes.

I've enjoyed getting to know Troughton's Doctor more (considering he has far, far too many missing episodes to give a truly accurate impression of what a great Doctor he made.

But we've had almost all of Season Six for ages (more's the pity) so SURELY that was enough to tell what a marvellous Doctor he is? Admittedly nothing QUITE matches that magical moment in Enemy of the World when he's chucking off his clothes and racing towards the sea...

I would have thought so, too, but my impression of him improved because of my experiencing his interaction, intellect, imagination, and interpretation of the character when dealing with the British soldiers, the Chameleons, the Daleks, and the colony feeding the Macra.
It's like basing an impression of the Second Doctor using The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors, The Two Doctors, and The Krotons, and ignoring everything else.

There's something wrong with a world where I've actually seen 'The Krotons' more times than 'Power Of The Daleks'!

It's like basing an impression of the Second Doctor using The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors, The Two Doctors, and The Krotons, and ignoring everything else.

But three of those were post-Troughton stories in which people more acute than me always claim he's playing a happy-fan-memory-caricature rather than the REAL Second Doctor.

There's something wrong with a world where I've actually seen 'The Krotons' more times than 'Power Of The Daleks'!

I vote we stick THAT on a t-shirt and start picketing Philip Morris's home...

The Tardis Eruditorum cites the Three Doctors as the last time Troughton played the Doctor; thereafter he played 'the second Doctor.' Surprisingly, both of the latter stories were written by veterans who had written for this run.

So, how many lost stories have all there episodes back? I know that Tomb Of The Cybermen and Enemy Of The World are whole again, are there any more?

About the "hoarding of missing episodes" trope...

I do know of some people in radio who have treasure-troves of early Top 40 radio jingles (such as KEWB, Oakland, on record disks, no less) and other broadcasting nuggets that they will NOT dub and share with others. It is the feeling of those that I know of guarding those broadcasting treasures that if dubbed copies got out, then the value of their collections would be diminished. There's one collector who has the only complete set of recordings of the 1927 Dempsey-Tunney "long count" championship boxing match as it was covered by NBC. This is one of only four known actual airchecks from that year that still exists. And said collector still won't release a tape of the thing to _anyone_...

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Commando raids.

Well, not for boxing match recordings obviously...

Recently, the second reel of the legendary Laurel and Hardy short "The Battle of the Century" was found in the home of a film collector who had died in 2004.

So more lost Who episodes can still be out there.

'It's sobering to note that a country like Nigeria, which has endured back-to-back military coups, a devastating civil war and widespread ethnic violence in the Niger Delta, still managed to hang onto its copies of early Doctor Who stories longer than the BBC; in the absence of democracy, human rights or enough to eat, the bountiful abundance of Hartnell episodes must have been a source of great comfort to the populace.' - Space Helmet for a Cow's take on the fiasco.

I doubt the Nigerian government even knew those episodes existed in their country.

Here's an interesting site to peruse while we wait for PM to cough up more of his Nigerian haul:

https://delegatedetective.wordpress.com/2015/08/26/whos-who-part-one-the-hartnell-years/

It is absolutely not for ME to tell ANYONE ELSE to get a life, but...

Pah, it is a wondrous resource, even if we don't have pictures of Ronald Pickup in 'The Tyrant of France' (or Hugh Fraser in 'The Smugglers' for that matter).

Pah, it is a wondrous resource, even if we don't have pictures of Ronald Pickup in 'The Tyrant of France' (or Hugh Fraser in 'The Smugglers' for that matter).

My life is doomed to be incomplete!

I wonder how different things for us fans would be if we didn't have any of the sixties - no audio, no video, no tele-snaps - and all our VHS and DVD collections started with Spearhead from Space?

I think we would still have the Cushing movies though. That might add a lot of confusion into the equation.

Oh gods. A cosmos where Troughton and Hartnell have been replaced by CUSHING scarcely bears thinking about...

There's never been a time when a large chunk of the 1960s episodes didn't exist though.

I wonder how different things for us fans would be if we didn't have any of the sixties - no audio, no video, no tele-snaps - and all our VHS and DVD collections started with Spearhead from Space?

Well, it would be a loss of television history, no doubt about that.

However, to be honest, I wouldn't personally care much. As I have said, I have little interest in the black and white era.

The bad news is that Moffat's showing no signs of leaving.

He's going now... WHERE ARE OUR MISSING EPISODES, MORRIS???!!!

I'm sure the actors union Equity has had ample cause to regret its actions, given that said actions helped to deprive its members of a substantial income in their old age.

I suspect that unions are right up there with politicians when it comes to ADMITTING, even to themselves, how many lives they've ruined.

I'm sure the actors union Equity has had ample cause to regret its actions, given that said actions helped to deprive its members of a substantial income in their old age.

Except that the BBC (and other companies) destroyed their old television specifically to avoid having to pay Equity members for repeat appearances in their old age...

Did the BBC REALLY THINK that if they preserved these chunks of cultural heritage for posterity, those evil unions would wrestle Mission to the Unknown out of their hands, stick it up on primetime TV, and demand repeat fees?

What we need is to mind scan anyone who has the memory of missing eps... Then recreate a virtual image. Maybe that was the Third Doctor's plan with that hair dryer device in Planet of the Spiders!

What, that hair dryer device that BLEW PROFESSOR CLEGG'S BRAINS OUT, you mean...?

Oh, who am I trying to kid? Blow out all the brains you want, just GIVE ME BACK MY MISSING EPISODES!

I kind of believe that in the seventies, schools and universities could have had recordings of off-air repeats of now missing stuff as they were more likely to have recording devices. Heck, a decade later, my father, a university lecturer, would let us use the classroom VCRs to watch rented tapes while he worked on stuff in his office as we did not have a video player at home.

it was recently revealed that a least one private collector in the UK has a number of missing non-DW shows but doesn't want to lose his bragging rights about his collection by handing them over.

Looks like BBCA is going to show Power of the Daleks as an animated this Saturday.

The Peter Cushing is dead. Rogue One’s resurrection is a digital indignity headline caught my eye for obvious reasons.

How long before we can tell Phil Morris to •••• off with his imaginary horde of goodies and just recreate all our lost Who-y happiness with PROPER, not cartoon, imitations?

It's a whole new verse of 'Peter Cushing Lives in Whitstable' waiting to happen.

But the problem is that the imitations will still only be imitations and the genuine article will be out of reach. I don't have any issue with Worldwide plugging the gaps/milking gullible fans with animated reconstructions, but it still feels inauthentic.

It's a whole new verse of 'Peter Cushing Lives in Whitstable' waiting to happen.

Uh?

But the problem is that the imitations will still only be imitations and the genuine article will be out of reach. I don't have any issue with Worldwide plugging the gaps/milking gullible fans with animated reconstructions, but it still feels inauthentic.

Authenticity be damned.

I mean, even I know that Doctor Who is just a BBC reconstruction of Our Hero's adventures, rather than being piped to our TV screens directly from the Matrix...

Uh?

This will explain everything:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYX1-vjly70

They were able to restore a young Anthony Hopkins with CGI in Westworld, so how about a CGI Patrick Troughton with a CGI rejuvenated Frazer Hines and Deborah Watling?

A well summarized account of why so many Doctor Who episodes are missing today.

For heaven's sake, what's the fuss about the Moon Landings? I'm sure America or someone had copies of the event.

Ian Levine wasn't just 'a huge fan of Doctor Who as a CHILD'.

The BBC paid exorbitant amounts for the return of missing Who eps from private collectors since WHEN!

Why does it go off at a tangent for hours waffling about some non-Who-related scream?

For heaven's sake, what's the fuss about the Moon Landings? I'm sure America or someone had copies of the event.

Even NASA isn't immune to these 'accidents'. They too have erased the tapes with the original transmissions from the Moon. All that subsists today are the tapes of the screen in mission control where those transmissions were being displayed for the press.

Why does it go off at a tangent for hours waffling about some non-Who-related scream?

That's just the bonus fact for this episode. They always do that. And it didn't last HOURS.

Even NASA isn't immune to these 'accidents'. They too have erased the tapes with the original transmissions from the Moon.

Oh my GOD I just assumed NASA had more sense...

I mean, I can just about grasp how some hideous monstrous philistines could fail to understand the cultural significance of Who but failing to grasp that humans landing on the Moon for the first time has any historical significance is really quite...silly.

All that subsists today are the tapes of the screen in mission control where those transmissions were being displayed for the press.

Hang on, why didn't the Doc just fiddle with the mission control screens instead of the actual rocket to splice in the Silence footage?

That's just the bonus fact for this episode. They always do that. And it didn't last HOURS.

It FELT like hours.

Things that aren't Doctor Who usually do.

Is there some particular explanation as to why "Marco Polo" is still missing? It's funny, considering Seasons 1 & 2 are otherwise so relatively intact, that there would be an entire 7-part story that's just totally gone.

There are at least explanations behind the other 4 missing episodes from the 1st 2 seasons. "The Reign of Terror" parts 4 & 5 were destroyed by Turkish bombing during the Cyprus civil war of the 1970s. (Parts 1, 2, 3, & 6 only survived because they were being kept in a different building at the time.) "The Crusade" parts 2 & 4 are missing because most of the surviving episodes from that era were recovered from Algeria. Algeria never bought "The Crusade" because an Arab TV audience would be unlikely to enjoy a story about the Crusades told from a British perspective.

I mean, I can just about grasp how some hideous monstrous philistines could fail to understand the cultural significance of Who but failing to grasp that humans landing on the Moon for the first time has any historical significance is really quite...silly.

It was deliberately wiped to spare NASA the embarrassment of having landed men on a giant space chicken egg.

Is there some particular explanation as to why "Marco Polo" is still missing?

The historical stories seem to have been singled out in seasons 1-2, as both 'The Reign of Terror' and 'The Time Meddler' had large chunks missing before being recovered (partially in 'Reign's case) in the mid-1980s. It may just be luck of the draw that 'The Aztecs' and 'The Romans' survived intact.

This is more to do with radio than TV but there are indeed hoarders in the radio world who refuse to let dubbed copies of their rare recordings of classic American top 40 personality radio (KHJ Los Angeles, WLS Chicago, WABC New York City etc) get out for fear the value of what they have will decrease.

even DW itself has addressed this phenomenon in City of Death with Count Scarlioni being able to sell seven copies of the Mona Lisa to seven different hoarders.

The ABC in Australia receives a steady trickle of emails (formerly letters) from dim-bulb fans asking if they have missing DW episodes. Every last one gets filed in the bin.

Honestly, If i were a local or cable station repeating DW, I'd seriously consider avoiding rerunning the B/W episodes even if none were missing, for ratings and revenue reasons.

A lot of archive tv fans don't want to accept this for personal reasons but even Steve Roberts has pointed out that ratings for B/W shows are much lower in the modern era than for colour shows. To use a American analogy, most stations would rather be repeating Seinfeld than the Andy Griffith Show.

And yet people scream bloody murder when someone tries to improve black and white stuff by colorizing it.

I never understood why black and white was such a problem anyway, probably because I was raised with black and white television.

If i were a private collector returning missing DW in today's atmosphere where the show is everywhere, I wouldn't want to be publically identified in DWM or on Gallifrey Base. As with the unknown Australian 8mm cine film person, I'd be way too afraid of harassment from wackjob fans who insist i must have more and go "I'll burn through your barrier, boy!" to quote the Ainley Master.

I don't see what they've got to worry about, none of us have stormed Philip Morris's collection to see what our 'wind's blowing in the right direction, I'm not giving you anything till Moffat goes, let me tweet a photo from a missing episode for no readily apparent reason' TORMENTOR is keeping from us...

...Though I'm damned if I know WHY we haven't.

"If we can find Richard III under a parking lot after 500 years, then surely we can locate more missing epi-- Oh look, there they are in Richard's arms. Thanks D-ick!"

Yeah, like the usurping murdering Tudor SCUM would have given poor Richard such glorious grave-gifts...

This "cult of documentation" among fans is stupid, given that we know not everything was officially documented and not all official documentation was kept.

How could Richard have items that won't be made for hundreds of years??

Timey-wimey strikes again.

This "cult of documentation" among fans is stupid, given that we know not everything was officially documented and not all official documentation was kept.

Yeah, but the BBC were better at keeping the documentation than they were the episodes •••• THEM TO HELLFIRE ETERNAL.

How could Richard have items that won't be made for hundreds of years??

Timey-wimey strikes again.

Well if The Kingmaker audio's right it's Shakespeare not Richard III anyway...

Without the "cult of documentation", fans would still believe everything Peter Haining told them.

Fan's Reaction If Every Episode Existed:

"That interminable one from the first series in China!"
"The bloody stupid one set in Ancient Troy with the terrible model horse."
"Oh... that really boring, talky one in Paris when there was this priest bloke that looked like the Doctor."
"That really long Dalek one... went on for THREE months! I never thought it would finish!"
"That really daft one with the toys where the Doctor was invisible and Billy Bunter tried to kill Steven and wassername."
"The one where Steven leaves and that other bloke becomes the Doctor for a while."
"I like pirate stories, but that one in Cornwall was so corny!"
"Remember that one where Jamie joined them? When they tried to Rob Roy? No, me neither."
"The really silly one in that space holiday camp and that really bad giant crab thing!"
"Remember the toy Daleks in that one where they go back to Skaro? Tch!"
"That one on the gas rig with all the foam and the killer seaweed stuff. I mean they had that foam in everything that series!"

Am I correct in thinking that the only stories where we don't have any footage at all are just Marco Polo, Mission to the Unknown, and The Massacre?

We have telesnaps from Marco Polo but that's it.

Some stories are no doubt gone forever.

Marco Polo was sold the most but sod's law meant that none of it survived.

We don't KNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW if any of it survived!

(Dammit, at this point I would usually be suggesting the kidnapping and interrogating-with-extreme-prejudice of Philip Morris but given that he HAS actually been kidnapped this would probably be in bad taste.)

According to Wiped! there is only one episode that is irretrievably lost, episode seven of The Dalek Masterplan. Every other lost episode possibly has one or more copies floating around out there, somewhere.

And if we had to live in a universe where one episode is irretrievably lost, we picked the right universe.

I once trolled Usenet with a missing episodes hoax.

Well aren't you the big person then?

I was in Year 11 at the time and an young idiot. Sorry, Rod.

Paul the Greek from the Restoration Team said in a podcast that a collector has, but is refusing to return, two missing episodes.

I imagine there are a lot more missing episodes out there in similar situations. In fact, I would guess that almost all of them are out there in grubby little collector's hands.

And yes Emily, if I find out their addresses I'll pass it on to you to organise the lynch mob.

There's gotta be a police officer who's a Fan, right? We are EVERYWHERE. And that's the property of the BBC dammit, s/he should organise a raid. And yes, if the police don't act Paul the Greek will just have to cough up names and addresses and...we'll take it from there. A jury probably wouldn't send you to prison for liberating the BBC's property and immediately returning it to them, right? RIGHT? And even if they did, some episodes are worth some jail time. (Unless you're an American male obviously.) Paul had better cough up the episode titles too, I'm not going down for more Galaxy 4.

Look if you get thrown in jail for it, we'll organise Ian Levine to release a single called "Emily in Distress"....

Em is in distress,
Sick of hearing this cr@p BS....

You are too kind.

Ian Levine is a pompous gasbag who has all the diplomatic skills of Donald Trump at a Feminist Convention

He's like Jabba the Hutt but with worse command of the English language.

In Return of the Jedi, Jabba the Hut - who lived during the height of the Old Republic - has completely forgotten how dangerous a Jedi can truly be.

In 2019, Ian Levine - who lived during the height of the junkings - has completely forgotten that they were already winding down without him.

There's a recording of the continuity announcement from before the first broadcast of Part One of An Unearthly Child. It's hilariously (given the longevity of the programme and thus the historical weight of the announcement) about as low key as you can imagine.

Why, what does it say?

not much, as they mis-time the start and crash into the titles about two seconds in.

Didn't this Morris guy say he'd give up the Doctor Who stories he supposedly had if Moffat left.

Moffat has been gone from Who for more than a year now, why hasn't Morris coughed up those stories?

Probably because he doesn't have them? I would like to see a direct source where he said that. It's probably just rumours spread by his detractors (ie Ian Levine and his sycophants).

So he's been lying this whole time??

Emily, round up the ninja cats!

It's really only with the benefit of hindsight that we can say what should have been kept. Back then Who was not quite the show we know it is now. The Pitch of Fear was not a historical recreation of how the show was pitched.

Rodney - Yes, Ian Levine looks like something Dian Fossey would study...

I wonder if that mysterious Tom Baker story, in which the Fourth Doctor murders a bunch of people in a lighthouse, will ever surface.

I mean it must exist somewhere, Rodney's seen it and describe it often enough.

Have you heard Emily gleefully trapsing through the meadows of happiness talking about the gloriousness of Space Pirates episode 3 or Galaxy 4 episode 1? If you haven't then there's your answer.

Emily gleefully trapsing through the meadows of happiness talking about the gloriousness of Space Pirates episode 3

*snicker*

While I can see Emily being happy a lost episode had been found, I'd have to wonder what drug(s) she was on if she was that happy about Space Pirates 3. ;-)

I'd expect that reaction for the discovery of something like Mission To The Unknown, or Tenth Planet 4 or something like that.

Unfortunately, now that we're 19 years into the 21st century beggars can't be choosers.

TV Tropes has a page devoted to this:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/MissingEpisode/DoctorWho

---

quote:

You see, they were only 16mm black & white telerecordings produced for overseas sale at the time. The telerecordings in the archives now are held in........... ........•••• this - anyone fancy a pint?

---

???

How would The Feast of Steven's line about "Arabs" and The Crusade's brownface treatment of what Doctor Who's first script editor David Whitaker called "Mohammedans" be dealt with in a hypothetical BBC DVD/download release?

With a disclaimer, or else dealt with in the makeing-ofs.

If Episode Two of The Celestial Toymaker were ever found, the "catch a Nigg Urh by the toe" line would be cut from any official broadcast or release, the Restoration Team said.

While it is certainly the case that film collector(s) would have the odd "lost" episode or two, it should be kept in mind that the Australian who made the 8mm cine-film clips of ABC broadcasts of now lost episodes has chosen to remain anonymous out of fear of the unhinged part of DW fandom.

The 1964-66 audience was largely children, and while there were keen fans from the beginning the cost of doing off air filming with 8mm for a whole story was prohibitive for an amateur, that's another reason why there's only those odd snippets

Animations cancelled!!

I was surprisingly upset about this given how much I hate 'em. I suppose I'm just scared it reflects a general lack of popularity for Who.

No they haven’t. BBC America pulled its funding some time back and now the bbc is looking for other interested parties. Abominable Snowmen is still being released. The rest have been delayed for a while. Stop feeding fear amongst the population.

Maybe the BBC should try Kickstarter to fund future animations?

If we reach X amount of funding we'll get the animators of High Guardian Spice.

If we get X times 5 amount we'll get the animators of South Park.

If we reach X times 10 we'll hire Steve Troop to do it as a puppet show.

;-)

They can’t do a kickstarter as they are a Public broadcaster. IMHO if they did then I reckon they’d raise more than $$$ to fund the rest of the animations…..

DWM on the missing episodes: 'Can you imagine if the newspapers had found out the BBC was sitting on a hundred thousand videotapes, and instead of re-using them was using licence payers' money to buy new ones?' - I'd imagine all the BBC would have to do was put on a few Who repeats and the savage tabloid beast would be tamed - 'So you can't play the blame game' - I really really can. 'I always say the search for lost stories should be a treasure hunt, not a witch hunt' - no reason it can't be both.

The return of three episodes apiece of Time Meddler and War Machines 'was further delayed when the London kidnapping of a former Nigerian government minister created a diplomatic incident' - !!

And when Tomb was found, it 'almost got lost all over again: having been posted back to the BBC from Asia Television, the films went AWOL for a month, and were eventually discovered - with nothing to identify them save for the story's original production code (MM) - lying unclaimed in the loading bay of the BBC's Woodlands depot' - *sigh*

And the paperwork that told 'em Tomb was in Hong Kong - 'the same paperwork tells you The Evil of the Daleks should be there too' - *piteous sobbing noises*

Wasn't sure if this was the best place to put this, but I couldn't find another that seemed appropriate.

This vid is interesting for 2 reasons.

1. It's a Dalek 63-88 video that's less than a minute long.

2. It's promoting a man who is adding animation effects to Tele-snaps.

The animation isn't perfect, of course, but it's still interesting to see movement going on in them.

Okay. I'm impressed.

Dammit, maybe The Smugglers would actually have been FUN if we could have SEEN it...

October 11 2023 marks ten years as noted by TARDIS Wiki that:
"Almost 100% of the previously missing episodes of The Enemy of the World and The Web of Fear were released on iTunes."