I was vaguely thinking about a general Companions section. Where we could ponder what on Earth they're all FOR? (Yes, OK, by 'vaguely thinking' I actually mean 'created one' but I can always delete it if no one wants to talk.) Obviously this is all due to rereading Alien Bodies, specifically, the ruminations of UNISYC Lieutenant Kathleen Bregman, a.k.a. Miss Chicken-Legs:

But the Doctor had shown her the truth. He hadn't meant to, but he'd given the game away. He'd needed her in Mictlan, because without her, he would have been a tree falling in the forest with no one to hear it. Not making a sound, not making a difference. However big and smart the other things in the universe thought they were - the Time Lords, the Celestis, Faction Paradox, whatever - they needed Bregman, and all the others like her. Without her, all the games they played across the universe, all the auctions and the wars and the power struggles, were utterly meaningless. They were ideas without heads to live in. Gods without followers.

Or was Martha Jones right - the Doc's just lonely, end of?

There's another reason for them--it doesn't mean much to be the smartest person in the room if you're the ONLY person in the room.

Well, the Companions sure have been beefed up for the New Series. They got character development the Classic Companions could only dream about.

Gone are the screaming down corridors days,these Companions can hold their own against the Doctor. Also, we get looks into their family lives, something that never happened on Classic Who. Fandom remains divided as to whether this is a good or bad thing, however.

Still, it's nice to see the Companions role expanded. If only Tegan, Nyssa, and the other Classic ones could have gotten this kind of development.

There's another reason for them--it doesn't mean much to be the smartest person in the room if you're the ONLY person in the room.

Actually if it's a TARDIS room he could never be too sure. She has a massive, if utterly alien, intelligence. (Albeit one that can easily be confused with BEING A BLOODY MORON in Edge of Destruction, Wheel in Space, Parting of the Ways, etc...)

Gone are the screaming down corridors days,these Companions can hold their own against the Doctor. Also, we get looks into their family lives, something that never happened on Classic Who. Fandom remains divided as to whether this is a good or bad thing, however.

I don't think anyone is SERIOUSLY complaining that we don't get cardboard cut-out young chirpy-and-screamy orphaned (or might as well BE orphaned, for all they care about what their never-mentioned families think of their disappearance) generic females any longer...more about the fact they're all in love with the Doctor. Which is, of course, an utterly logical reaction to so much wonderfulness - in fact, why the hell wasn't ANYONE in Old Who in love with their Docs? (NB: providing their Docs aren't One or Six, where it falls into the category of questions-that-answer-themselves.)

Oh, except Sarah, of course. Allegedly. God, she managed to hide that EXTREMELY well. Come to think of it...Pertwee AND Tom? Or just Tom...?

(Or did you just mean that the family thing got a mixed reaction? Surely NO ONE could fail to adore Jackie, Mickey-the-Idiot and Wilf...but admittedly all those mothers were a bit too similar. I'm still convinced there's a missing scene in The Big Bang where Amy's Imaginary Friend got a good slap...)

Still, it's nice to see the Companions role expanded. If only Tegan, Nyssa, and the other Classic ones could have gotten this kind of development.

Nyssa and Tegan had more of an effort made with them than most. They had families and tramas and issues like shrunken aunts and Masters-walking-round-in-their-father's-bodies and suchlike. Alright, so they didn't exactly make the most of their chances to become three-dimensional...

Just compare them to Barbara and Ian, who were otherwise so rounded and realistic and sympathetic (well, I suppose they had to be, their Doctor was such a git) and who never gave their poor parents a second, or indeed first, thought...

Emily: Or did you just mean that the family thing got a mixed reaction? Surely NO ONE could fail to adore Jackie, Mickey-the-Idiot and Wilf...

Do you want to bet????

Weeeell...I might not put actual MONEY on this assertion. But I'm quite sure everyone WILL come round...eventually.

Well, since I just suggested it on the 'almost compansions' board, this might also be a good place to discus- what qualifies a companion? What separates the one-off companions of the specials from the average guest-star-that's-helpful? (If Astrid qualifies, shouldn't Jabe? Etc.) If you can be a companion without TARDIS travel (I.e. the UNIT years) then what does make you a companion? Following/accompanying the Doctor? If so, what weeds out the occasional follower-for-a-show? Do number of trips count (Sara Kingdom, Kazran Sardik)? Do you have to voyage through time first (Astrid Peth, Jackie Tyler, Lady Christina, Adelade, etc.)? Who ARE the companions- and why? What factor puts you on and off the list?

Actually if it's a TARDIS room he could never be too sure. She has a massive, if utterly alien, intelligence.

I don't remember the TARDIS being called intelligent, merely alive, like a plant (and about as smart).

What qualifies as a companion? No idea, but for me it would have to be traveling with the Doctor for more than one story. It also helps to get your name in the opening credits.

I don't remember the TARDIS being called intelligent, merely alive, like a plant (and about as smart).

No one's ever called her intelligent on-screen, but...she's so smart she can spend 500-ish years finding trouble across the universe and steering the Doctor straight to it without him ever realising.

Though come to think of it, that could be explained away by a) her having really good homing instincts, like one of those migrating birds, and b) the Doctor being INCREDIBLY thick.

What qualifies as a companion? No idea, but for me it would have to be traveling with the Doctor for more than one story. It also helps to get your name in the opening credits.

Ugg, no, the opening credits are WORSE than useless. Kylie Minogue, for god's sake.

No one's ever called her intelligent on-screen, but...she's so smart she can spend 500-ish years finding trouble across the universe and steering the Doctor straight to it without him ever realising.

Maybe it's like plants turning towards the sun. Just some strange instinct inspired by her trouble-seeking operator.

Ugg, no, the opening credits are WORSE than useless. Kylie Minogue, for god's sake.

But she snuffed it in one story so she doesn't meet the other criterion.

Emily:No one's ever called her intelligent on-screen, but...she's so smart she can spend 500-ish years finding trouble across the universe and steering the Doctor straight to it without him ever realising.

IIRC-it's only been in New Who that the Tardis has been treated as alive--in Old Who it was a machine.

Emily:Ugg, no, the opening credits are WORSE than useless. Kylie Minogue, for god's sake.

It's been a while since I've looked--did any Old Who companion ever get mentioned in the opening credits??

Maybe it's like plants turning towards the sun. Just some strange instinct inspired by her trouble-seeking operator.

Yeah *sigh* I know you're right...how the hell did I get in a position when I was DEFENDING that machine's intelligence? She went a hundred trillion years to throw off poor darling Captain Jack but she eloped with the Master. She popped that console open to save her own skin, but when THE DOCTOR was in danger Rose had to FORCE her open with a big yellow truck. (Well, come to think of it...the TARDIS might have been rather annoyed at listening to that hologram telling Rose to let her wither and die on a street corner. And not a word of farewell for HER...)

IIRC-it's only been in New Who that the Tardis has been treated as alive--in Old Who it was a machine.

New Who definitely expanded on the theme, but there were plenty of hints in Old Who - the Fourth Doctor saying 'Obsolete? Take no notice, my dear old thing!'; the way she influenced her passengers in Edge of Destruction; Five saying she was more than a machine, she needed coaxing, persuading...

Of course, this might just have been a Doctorish eccentricity - if there was any real question of the Old Girls being alive, would Deadly Assassin have so casually referred to destroying all the other Type 40s...?

did any Old Who companion ever get mentioned in the opening credits??

Nope. We just got the Doctor's head. I remember how blasphemous (as well as deeply gratifying) it felt to hear that this 'Billie Piper' person was going to get equal billing with our new Doctor...

how the hell did I get in a position when I was DEFENDING that machine's intelligence?

The same way I made a half-hearted attempt to defend the iDaleks. That didn't work either.

Moderator's Note: Moved from the Arc of Infinity section:

Oh why couldn't they have left Tegan on Earth for a few more stories and not bothered with that weasel, Turlough. The Doctor and Nyssa did fine on their own.

Tim: Oh why couldn't they have left Tegan on Earth for a few more stories and not bothered with that weasel, Turlough. The Doctor and Nyssa did fine on their own.

Or left her on the ship to die with Adric--the only way to improve a perfect moment.

And I agree-leave Turlough out; it would be fun to see what Nyssa and Five could do.

I liked Turlough. Much more interesting than boring old Nyssa.

I respectfully disagree. I'd take Nyssa over Turlough any day!

Perhaps I was just struck by the novelty of having a male in the TARDIS. Precious few of them.

For good reason, once you got past Harry Sullivan and the men from UNIT, the male companions just plain sucked. Adric and Turlough were not very popular with the fans.

It seems the New Series has rectified this in regards to male companions.

Ian was also good and what about Jamie? But yes, Jack and Rory are fantastic.

I liked Turlough. Much more interesting than boring old Nyssa.

Turlough at least had THREE stories when he got to be interesting - a mysterious exiled alien who was trying to murder the Doctor (alright, so it's a shame he spent one of said stories under the floorboards). After that the writers just didn't know what to do with him. Which means he's probably more successful than Nyssa, who they NEVER seemed to know what to do with.

But yes, Jack and Rory are fantastic.

Of course, what you MEANT to say is that Jack, Rory and Mickey-the-idiot are fantastic.

Oh dear, I completely forgot Mickey. Guess he wasn't quite so fantastic.

Ian was also good and what about Jamie?

Sorry, let me rephrase. I meant to say that the line of good male companions ended with the UNIT era (Brig, Benton, Harry, Yates). Ian and Jamie predated that time. The two that followed, Adric and Turlough, were dismal failures. Thankfully, there would be no more male companions in the run of Classic Who.

I think I liked Turlough because he was the only companion I remember who was actually against the Doctor. He tried to kill him! And then he's on the TARDIS. Now that's a unique dynamic in the history of Who.

I think I liked Turlough because he was the only companion I remember who was actually against the Doctor.

Tegan was also pretty anti-Doctor. And I don't know about the Doc, but I was more scared of her shrieking 'A broken clock keeps better time than you do!' than of Turlough waving that rock around...

He tried to kill him! And then he's on the TARDIS. Now that's a unique dynamic in the history of Who.

Oh, I don't know...Jo tried to blow up the Doctor (admittedly under hypnotism), Sarah nearly got him executed as a wizard in medieval England (and no doubt she also tried to kill him while hypnotised too), I'm a bit hazy on Masterplan but I'd be surprised if Sara Kingdom didn't try to off him like she did poor Bret, and then there's dear old Mike Yates, under hypnotism AND not under hypnotism...hell, didn't even K9 take a pot-shot after getting taken over by the Shadow?

And actually I can think of four Companions who DID kill their Doctor. Albeit unintentionally.

Sorry Emily,I don't think it counts if they're under someone elses control.

On the other hand--Sarah tried,Leela missed,and Chameleon(?) tried(note-he might get forgiven under the -under someone elses control clause).

Also note:under most of the answers to "what does it take to be a companion, he is one(and one of three gender neutral companions(him and the two K9s).

Sorry Emily,I don't think it counts if they're under someone elses control.

Well, Turlough could be said to be under the Black Guardian's control. Sure, he initially more-or-less voluntarily agreed to the bargain...but then so did Sarah when the Queen Spider took her over. All Turlough agreed to do was kill a man he was assured was very, VERY evil. As soon as he got to know Davison he tried to go back on the whole killing-him thing, but the Black Guardian forced him to continue with much yelling and death-threats and torture and sticking-crystals-to-his-hand and suchlike.

Leela missed

LEELA tried too? And I thought she was so taken with the Evil One...

and Chameleon(?) tried(note-he might get forgiven under the -under someone elses control clause).

Oh, Kamelion. Yeah, he was definitely being controlled by the Master. And unlike all the other hypnotism-victims, he was so desperate to get OUT of his control that he got the Doc to murder him.

Also note:under most of the answers to "what does it take to be a companion, he is one(and one of three gender neutral companions(him and the two K9s).

Pah, Kamelion isn't a Companion! If only he hadn't inexplicably garnered twenty whole posts (TWENTY! Exactly the same number as the Longest-Serving Companion Ever, Jamie!!! You know, the guy none of us have bothered to say anything about THIS MILLENNIUM), he'd've been frogmarched to the Almost Companions section faster than he could change allegiance...

Kamelion was only in two stories. Not much to make him a Companion.

Emily - No one's ever called her intelligent on-screen, but...she's so smart she can spend 500-ish years finding trouble across the universe and steering the Doctor straight to it without him ever realising.

Amazingly the Doctor has never figured out that the TARDIS is trying to kill him. ;-)

Tim - For good reason, once you got past Harry Sullivan and the men from UNIT, the male companions just plain sucked.

Probably because up to Harry the men were expected to be the show's 'muscle' so had to be capable in some respect. Adric & Turlough weren't muscle & what each was supposed to be... didn't get handled well by the various writers.

Emily:Well, Turlough could be said to be under the Black Guardian's control. Sure, he initially more-or-less voluntarily agreed to the bargain...but then so did Sarah when the Queen Spider took her over. All Turlough agreed to do was kill a man he was assured was very, VERY evil. As soon as he got to know Davison he tried to go back on the whole killing-him thing, but the Black Guardian forced him to continue with much yelling and death-threats and torture and sticking-crystals-to-his-hand and suchlike.

What Turlough did was voluntary(it was based on lies)-but it should count(later-after the threats I don't count).

As for Sarah-I wasn't counting Planet of the Spiders, I was looking at The Time Warrior where she happily turned him over to the villians trying to kill him.

Emily:LEELA tried too? And I thought she was so taken with the Evil One...

Not at first-she took a shot or two before coming around.

As for Sarah-I wasn't counting Planet of the Spiders, I was looking at The Time Warrior where she happily turned him over to the villians trying to kill him.

She did NOT! Sarah had good reason for suspecting that Doctor was up to no good, so she recruited the fine upstanding Sir Edward and Lady Eleanor to help her capture the scientist-stealing sexist scumbag and bring him to justice. (Admittedly medieval justice is quite rough but hey, that's not HER fault - gotta respect the local customs, right?)

Emily:LEELA tried too? And I thought she was so taken with the Evil One...

Not at first-she took a shot or two before coming around.

I know I'm due for a rewatch, I just...don't want to.

Just spotted THIS by Mandy in the Robot section:

That's why he has companions, you know, to slow him down enough to create a challenge.

I have a horrible feeling she might be right. Of course, it MUST be subconscious - no doubt the Doc, bless him, genuinely believes that 'I only take the best' - but it WOULD be rather a coincidence if, with an entire universe to choose from, he'd landed himself with THAT many thickos by accident...

What were you doing in the Robot section?

Well, I had to check out Robot's clothes-changing scene for the argument I was having with Jep in Five Doctors over whether Romana had regenerated into a non-human-ish form (look, it all made perfect sense at the time) and it was so bloody fantastic I just had to watch the whole of Robot (completely forgetting that the rest of Robot, and indeed the rest of Old Who (bar City of Death obviously) didn't really measure up). And then, of course, I trotted onto the Robot section and had a quick flick through to check I wouldn't be repeating posts TOO much, and then, well, I decided to go to bed and type up my millions of Robot-related revelations tomorrow. (Obviously the going-to-bed thing hasn't worked out too well yet.)

Ah.

(I think I'll back away now.)

Excuse me Emily-you were watching the first Tom Baker story(before either he or the writers had his Doctor figured out).

This is a great moment in Who--watch and enjoy.

There is nothing to be ashamed of.

This is a great moment in Who--watch and enjoy.

There is nothing to be ashamed of.

I didn't mean to imply I was ASHAMED! Of course not! It was a truly wonderful moment, getting that rush of 'Want Robot! Want Robot NOW! GIMME! HUNNNNGGRRYYY!' in a way I haven't for an Old Who story for a very long time.

And of course Robot has nothing to be ashamed of either, failing to live up to the shining glory of Tom Baker in full Viking regalia. I mean, what does?

Emily:I didn't mean to imply I was ASHAMED! Of course not! It was a truly wonderful moment, getting that rush of 'Want Robot! Want Robot NOW! GIMME! HUNNNNGGRRYYY!' in a way I haven't for an Old Who story for a very long time.

Ah-I see.

It looked like you were making excuses for watching it--for which there is no need.

Emily:And of course Robot has nothing to be ashamed of either, failing to live up to the shining glory of Tom Baker in full Viking regalia. I mean, what does?

There is that.

But remember-ths script was written for Pertwee,and that this was Toms first time, you might want to cut it some slack.

Has anyone noticed, since the New Series, that ALL the Companions are from modern day Earth?

I think that, once Rory and Amy have had their run, they need a change. How about a Companion from 1911? A cell phone would do them no good. Even if they figured out how to work one, they couldn't call home, no such technlogy existed in 1911.

Captain Jack was from the far future (51st century?).

Adam was from the near future (2012?), although that's close enough to count as Modern. ;-)

Have we had any non-Earthling companions in the New Series?

Captain Jack was from the far future (51st century?).

As was Professor River Song. That's an almost-respectable 20% non-modern-day Companionship for the new series. Though OF COURSE it's about time we got something alien (assuming the Doc's mellowed since Tom's 'Ugg, go away' days), futuristic (preferably involving more differences with us than a squareness gun and loads of sex) and/or prehistoric (well, medieval. Well, pre-last-50-years, anyway).

Have we had any non-Earthling companions in the New Series

Nope. The last non-Earthling companion was Turlough.

Blimey. So Romana, Adric, Nyssa, Turlough (and K9 and Kamelion if you want to count 'em) are the ONLY non-human Companions the Doc's had? Good for Four and Five for not being so racist as their other selves.

Even in the books and audios he only has one non-human Companion (that is, counting Compassion and Fitz II as human, which IS what they're based on, after all). And guess what? The only Companion he EVER has who doesn't LOOK identical to a human (bar the robots obviously, and even then Kamelion TRIES to look human most of the time) IS IN AN AUDIO. Where we can't SEE his reptilian skin.

Anti-penguin bigot. :-)

Ah, dear Frobisher! All Hail The Great Talking Bird! Of course I adore him, but let's face it, he was in one-and-a-half audios. THAT hardly qualifies him for Companion status. (OBVIOUSLY comic-book nonsenses don't count.)

So how do you justify counting the non-canonical audios but not the equally non-canonical comics?

Cos they're not equally non-canonical. The comics (The Lodger aside, of course) are BLATANTLY lies, all lies! Just LOOK at them! The books and audios, on the other hand, had enough of the truth in them that they kept us fooled for YEARS about their possible canonicity.

The audios maybe. The books never fooled me.

Huh. You realise one of those audios (um...Orbis to be exact) had the McGann Doctor happily living with a bunch of jellyfish for SIX HUNDRED YEARS?? Fit THAT into his timeline if you can. Whereas the wildest and most insane things about the novels - the Doctor destroying Gallifrey in a Time War, the Doctor getting married, the Doctor growing a beard, the Doctor becoming human and teaching in a boys school - have all COME TRUE. (Or are just about to, may the gods of Ragnarok have mercy on our souls...)

Yeah, yeah, pick and choose, but the audios felt more like the real thing, whereas the books felt like New Coke. I never did get over Looms.

Well, the audios have the actual actors involved, so that works in their favour.

Since so much of Who is its style, you really need the cast to give it that Doctorness, otherwise it's just a story using the characters like fanfiction.

True, the Companions are just as important as the Doctor.

The Impossible Astronaut certainly gave us some interesting insights into the role of the Companion.

From the Doctor:

'I'm being extremely clever up here and there's no-one to stand around looking impressed. What's the point in having you all?'

From River Song:

'We do what the Doctor's friends always do. As we're told.' (Since when?!)

It's also noteworthy that Amy seemed unsure that 'friend' was the correct word for her relationship with the Doctor...

But then she goes all calls him her best friend in the next part of the story.

Yes, that was a bit surprising in the circumstances...personally I'd be feeling LESS as if someone was my Bestest Pal Ever AFTER they'd just made me run round America for three months pursued by gun-toting maniacs for no readily apparent reason. Of course, she WAS trying to explain to the Doctor (and no doubt herself) exactly why HE'D been the recipient of the Happy News instead of its actual FATHER...

With Elisabeth Sladen gone there are no really definative Companion actors left - the only ones left are the dregs of the Who universe.

Hey! Ian's still with us! I love Ian.

Yeah, Ian's great, only RTG inexplicably ensured the actor couldn't return by claiming the Chestertons hadn't aged a day in decades...

I'd say Jo Grant is pretty definitive, though - and utterly sublime in Death of the Doctor. And Ace, Romana II and Leela are all definitive in their own ways. I'd love to see any of 'em again.

Oh, and Jamie, of course! How could I forget Jamie! (Well, if you must know...cos despite the mention of Ian I was subconsciously assuming that the 60s-era guys were all...well...y'know...DEAD.)

And let's not forget Nyssa!

Hate to break the news, but...we weren't forgetting Nyssa, exactly...;)

Hey, them's fighting words! Do NOT diss my sweet Nyssa.

Who was Nyssa again...? ;)

Only the best part of the Davison years.

Only the best part of the Davison years.

I couldn't agree more.

Emily in The Highlanders thread: Highlanders is HISTORIC! Literally. The LAST historical! Not to mention introducing the longest-serving Companion!

Sorry Emily--I think the only record Jamie holds is that of companion with the most episodes in his run of 113.

As for stories Rose Tyler beats him 27 to 20.

As for longest-serving companion--again he loses in the numbers. Jamie had less than 3 seasons on the show(2 Hartnell and one Troughton stories before he started in season 4), Sarah Jane Smith beats him with more than 3 full seasons(plus 2 stories into her fourth).

Also note:in terms of stories Jamie has a 20 to 18 lead-if you count only their main run. If you count reunion shows I think you'll find Sarah Jane sneaking into second(maybe even first if you count SJA).

the longest serving companion in terms of consecutive years on the show is Tegan, not Sarah Jane

Sorry Emily--I think the only record Jamie holds is that of companion with the most episodes in his run of 113.

113!!! That's quite a record!

Are you including The Five Doctors as four and Two Doctors as six, or what?

As for stories Rose Tyler beats him 27 to 20.

GO ROSE!

(Um....I should probably make it clear that I'm cheering her on, not ushering her towards the exit.)

Sarah Jane Smith beats him with more than 3 full seasons(plus 2 stories into her fourth).

GO SARAH!

(Ditto.)

Also note:in terms of stories Jamie has a 20 to 18 lead-if you count only their main run. If you count reunion shows I think you'll find Sarah Jane sneaking into second(maybe even first if you count SJA).

I most certainly do count SJA!

And let's not forget K9 and Company (much as we might wish to).

the longest serving companion in terms of consecutive years on the show is Tegan, not Sarah Jane

That would never have occurred to me. The most whiny, wanna-go-hooooooome! Companion being stuck for the longest number of years...

Emily:113!!! That's quite a record!

Yes it is, and done in less than 3 seasons--they really worked hard in the old first few seasons.

Emily:Are you including The Five Doctors as four and Two Doctors as six, or what?

In this count I only counted the companions main run,not the guest shots--so I didn't count either story in the total.

Emily: (Um....I should probably make it clear that I'm cheering her on, not ushering her towards the exit.)

I know what you mean.

Emily: (Ditto.)

Again.

Judibug:the longest serving companion in terms of consecutive years on the show is Tegan, not Sarah Jane

Sorry, I have to diagree with you there. Tegan had just shy of 3 seasons(she left 2 stories shy of the end of her third season plus Logopolis. Sarah Jane completed her third season plus 2 stories into her fourh. I'd give it to Sarah Jane by a nose.(In terms of stories Tegan takes it(19 to 18). As for episodes Sarah Jane wins easily(80 to 70)).

Emily:I most certainly do count SJA!

The problem is-if we count spin-offs there are only 3 names in the running Sarah Jane,Captain Jack and--Oh smeg!!!

Oh Emily--we have a problem here!!!!

How do we count K-9s record???

In Old Who there were 2 of him(one spent nearly 2 seasons with Leela, the other nearly 2 seasons with the Romanas(first and second).

Do we count them seperately(K-9(1) and K-9(2))-or do we count them as just K-9(which would give him more than 3 1/2 seasons)????

Emily:And let's not forget K9 and Company (much as we might wish to).

Double smeg--3 of him!!!!!

Four, actually.

First K-9 went with Leela. Second went with Romana. Third was made for SJ, then was replaced by the fourth in School Reunion.

I assume the latest K-9 is the one from SJA? (Or then it would be five.)

Amanda:Third was made for SJ, then was replaced by the fourth in School Reunion.

I've always thought the one seen at the end of School Reunion was a repair/refit/upgrade of the one she already had-still leaving it at 3(a return of an old friend-not a replacement).

Amanda:I assume the latest K-9 is the one from SJA? (Or then it would be five.)

As I've not been watching the spin-off shows I'm not 100% sure on this--but from what I've read here I think it's a repair/refit/upgrade of one of the others, although which one I'm not sure.

Are there any K9 fans who can answer that one???

So it looks like 3(maybe 4) K-9s have been built.

On the other hand-Only 2(the Leela one and the Romana one) could be counted as part of his run as companion.

I'll go with Emilys call--in Old Who do we count K-9 as one companion,or split his time up to K-9(1) and K-9(2)????

I assume the latest K-9 is the one from SJA? (Or then it would be five.)
I think it's the first one though they haven't actually come out and say so. Or I missed it if they did, or I petered out before they got there..

I've always thought the one seen at the end of School Reunion was a repair/refit/upgrade of the one she already had-still leaving it at 3(a return of an old friend-not a replacement).

Now that you mention it, I think you're right. I seem to remember some dialog explaining that.

Sarah Jane: December 15, 1973 - 23 October 1976: 2 years, 10 months as a regular

Tegan: 28 February, 1981 - February 15, 1984: 2 years 11 months and 19 days as a regular.

I was right

Emily:113!!! That's quite a record!

Yes it is, and done in less than 3 seasons--they really worked hard in the old first few seasons.

Ah yes, the GOOD OLD DAYS when people didn't get so exhausted at doing a whole 14 episodes a year that they needed to have a good lie-down for TWELVE MONTHS...

Emily:I most certainly do count SJA!

The problem is-if we count spin-offs there are only 3 names in the running Sarah Jane,Captain Jack and--Oh smeg!!!

Oh Emily--we have a problem here!!!!

Agghh!

Well, at least it has a simple solution...

I most certainly do NOT count SJA!

How do we count K-9s record???

In Old Who there were 2 of him(one spent nearly 2 seasons with Leela, the other nearly 2 seasons with the Romanas(first and second).

Do we count them seperately(K-9(1) and K-9(2))-or do we count them as just K-9(which would give him more than 3 1/2 seasons)????

No one has ever objected to Nitcentral having just one K9 section in Companions, as opposed to two for Romana...

Four, actually.

First K-9 went with Leela. Second went with Romana. Third was made for SJ, then was replaced by the fourth in School Reunion.

Plus I think it's supposed to be Leela's one who *shudders* regenerates in the Australian Abomination. Not that THAT'S canon.

Though come to think of it, it could have been Romana's K9 - she didn't just return to Gallifrey in the novels and audios, she must have done so canonically too, or the Doc would have hared off to E-Space in search of her by now. So both mutts would have had the chance to nick some regeneration technology.

I assume the latest K-9 is the one from SJA? (Or then it would be five.)

The one Sarah got at the end of School Reunion (whichever bloody one THAT was) is definitely the one who deigns to make the occasional SJA/Journey's End appearance.

Amanda:Third was made for SJ, then was replaced by the fourth in School Reunion.

I've always thought the one seen at the end of School Reunion was a repair/refit/upgrade of the one she already had-still leaving it at 3(a return of an old friend-not a replacement).

*Sigh* THAT is the million-dollar question. The actual exchange at the end of School Reunion was:

K9: The master rebuilt me.

SARAH: He replaced you with a brand-new model!

Utterly contradicting itself, and leaving it utterly unclear whether K9 was rebuilt or replaced.

Not, I suppose, that it would make much difference if the Doc did manage to salvage a few circuits or burnt memory-wafers or something from the explosion - there CAN'T have been much of the poor old dog left.

And he IS a machine, I suppose it's stupid to think that he'd have the same 'soul' if some old parts HAD been used. I mean, I don't even BELIEVE in souls.

So it looks like 3(maybe 4) K-9s have been built.

The About Times make a good case for the Doc just buying 'em in a shop somewhere.

On the other hand-Only 2(the Leela one and the Romana one) could be counted as part of his run as companion.

How can you say that! Didn't you SEE the look on Tennant's face when K9 Mark III recognised him in School Reunion?

Mark III also appeared in The Five Doctors warning Sarah Jane of danger just before she got timescooped.

Ah yes, the poor darling SENSED the Doctor's presence and BEGGED to go with Sarah but no, SHE knew best, SHE deprived him of a joyous reunion...

Judibug:Tegan: 28 February, 1981 - February 15, 1984: 2 years 11 months and 19 days as a regular.

I was right


Sorry to take so long yo get back--but I wanted to check my facts.

While your start and end dates are correct you leave out a small detail--at the end of Timeflight(March 30, 1982); she was not picked up again until Ark of Infinity(Januaty 3, 1983).

This either breaks up her travels into 2 shorter pieces(taking her out of the running)--or it takes slightly over 9 months out of her time(not an active companion)leaving Tegan at roughly 2 years 2 months--giving Sarah Jane the edge.

Emily:I most certainly do NOT count SJA!

While I agree with this-that's not the problem I was having.

The problem I was having is I had remembered K-9-and am unsure how to count their time on the Tardis.

Emily:How can you say that! Didn't you SEE the look on Tennant's face when K9 Mark III recognised him in School Reunion?

You misunderstand-I was not dismissing K-9s other appearances, but in this instance(looking for longest travelling companion) they(just like Jamie in The Two Doctors and The Five Doctors) don't count toward his main run.

Emily:Not, I suppose, that it would make much difference if the Doc did manage to salvage a few circuits or burnt memory-wafers or something from the explosion - there CAN'T have been much of the poor old dog left.

At the end of the story K9 remembers being the K9 at the begining of the story--this makes him the same one(Sarah Jane was wrong).

Emily:No one has ever objected to Nitcentral having just one K9 section in Companions, as opposed to two for Romana...

That's the problem--while a strong case can be made for the Romanas being the same companion--the 2 K9s involved are clearly not the same being.

This is what I was asking you-if we count the 2 K9s as one companion the he is the companion with the longest run, if not they drop well back.

So it's your call-although I know how I feel.

Romana is the same person, the K9's aren't - Leela's K9 could meet Romana's K9 and Sarah-Jane's K9 without the universe exploding or resorting to Two/Five Doctors levels of mucking about with timelines.

(In the Gallifrey audios, don't Leela's and Romana's meet?)

Romana, 2nd September 1978 to 24th January 1981 = 2 years, 4 months, 22 days

If we count Tegan as one continuous run from Logopolis to Resurrection of the Daleks), then I think we have to count Jamie and Sarah-Jane (plus Rose - to Journey's End, and Mickey, Martha and Jack to End of Time 2) as one run as well.

And then do we count the SJA Death of the Doctor (on the basis that you can't be the companion if the Doctor's not there), because we then have to include Jo in too?

Jamie, 17th December, 1966 to 21st June, 1969, 2 years, 6 months or to March 2nd , 1985 = 18 years, 3 months, 16 days

And muddying the waters is that in The Two Doctors, Jamie is still the second doctor's companion (it's supposed to be post-War Games, but pre-Spearhead), so he's technically not left yet.

Sarah-Jane, 15th December, 1973 to 23rd October, 1976 2 years, 10 months, 8 days or to 1st January 2010, 26 years, and 16 days

If we count Tegan as two, then Peri comes in a fairly close second to Sarah-Jane thanks to the missing season (February 23, 1984 to October 4, 1986 = 2 years, 7 months, 9 days).

And then of course, muddying the waters even further, there's Ace - she didn't actually leave in Dragonfire, so do we count her to there (23rd November, 1987 to 6th December, 1989 - Two years, 13 days), the TV Movie (add another 6 1/2 years or so), or somewhere inbetween?

(And no, I'm not, under any circumstances, including Dimensions in Time)
---

*Sigh* THAT is the million-dollar question. The actual exchange at the end of School Reunion was:

K9: The master rebuilt me.

SARAH: He replaced you with a brand-new model!

Utterly contradicting itself, and leaving it utterly unclear whether K9 was rebuilt or replaced.
---
I presume Sarah-Jane was basically saying that the rebuilt K9 was so fundamentally improved over the previous one (who was basically non-functional by the time of School Reunion), that it was like having a completely different K9.

Let's call him K9 (III-enhanced)

Chris:Romana is the same person, the K9's aren't

I think I said that.

Chris:Leela's K9 could meet Romana's K9 and Sarah-Jane's K9 without the universe exploding or resorting to Two/Five Doctors levels of mucking about with timelines.

Good point-but It's been broken at lesst twice(IIRC Three and Jo meet themselves in Day of the Dalek,and there was no problem in Fathers Day until Rose changed the timeline).

Chris: (In the Gallifrey audios, don't Leela's and Romana's meet?)

Don't know, don't care.

As far as I'm concerned the novels and audios are all non-canon--they may be a funway to kill time(although even Emily hates most of them), but don't count as anything more.

Chris:If we count Tegan as one continuous run from Logopolis to Resurrection of the Daleks), then I think we have to count Jamie and Sarah-Jane (plus Rose - to Journey's End, and Mickey, Martha and Jack to End of Time 2) as one run as well.

Tegan is a unique case--she is the only companion who was left behind, and then returned without missing any stories.

In every other case-the companion who left was gone for many stories(and often years)-breaking their run.

Although I agree that Tegans run was broken-some people might argue that since she returned in the very next story that it wasn't.

Chris:And muddying the waters is that in The Two Doctors, Jamie is still the second doctor's companion (it's supposed to be post-War Games, but pre-Spearhead), so he's technically not left yet.

This is another tough one-where does it fit in time??

From how old Two and Jamie look in this one some people think it was a mission for the Time Lords in the time you mention.

On the other hand IIRC--Jamie mentions going back to pick up Victoria which would make it pre-Fury From the Deep. If this is the case-I don't think it would change his length of run.

Chris:If we count Tegan as two, then Peri comes in a fairly close second to Sarah-Jane thanks to the missing season (February 23, 1984 to October 4, 1986 = 2 years, 7 months, 9 days).

Another tough one-since she left before Trial,I'd end her run at Revelation of the Daleks.

Yes-we know there is more,but it was never made.

Chris:And then of course, muddying the waters even further, there's Ace - she didn't actually leave in Dragonfire, so do we count her to there (23rd November, 1987 to 6th December, 1989 - Two years, 13 days), the TV Movie (add another 6 1/2 years or so), or somewhere inbetween?

I think you mean Survival(she joined in Dragonfire).

As we've got nothing on that time period--I'd end her run with Survival. She may have travelled with him for decades--but we can't prove it.

Chris:Let's call him K9 (III-enhanced)

Works for me--it's easier to use than my repair/refit/upgrade.

At the end of the story K9 remembers being the K9 at the begining of the story--this makes him the same one(Sarah Jane was wrong).

What exactly does he say?

the 2 K9s involved are clearly not the same being.

This is what I was asking you-if we count the 2 K9s as one companion the he is the companion with the longest run, if not they drop well back.

I'd count all the metal mutts (bar the farting flying big-eared Australian abomination) as just one Companion. I know that technically speaking they aren't and I'm on very dodgy ground, but then if you count the books and audios as canon, the Fifth Doctor we see post-Nekromantea, the Ace we see post-Loving the Alien and the Peri we see post-Shell Shock are just copies of a murdered original, anyway. (Not that I DO count them as canon, but I couldn't think of an on-screen example. I'd like to ask if our current Doctor is actually The Real Thing rather than an Amy-remembered resurrection, but...OF COURSE he's The Real Thing!)

And then do we count the SJA Death of the Doctor (on the basis that you can't be the companion if the Doctor's not there), because we then have to include Jo in too?

I'd see SJA as proof that you CAN still be the Companion even if the Fickle Sonuvadalek dumped you in Aberdeen and scarpered, thirty-five years earlier...

And muddying the waters is that in The Two Doctors, Jamie is still the second doctor's companion (it's supposed to be post-War Games, but pre-Spearhead), so he's technically not left yet.

*Starts groaning and tearing hair out*

And then of course, muddying the waters even further, there's Ace - she didn't actually leave in Dragonfire, so do we count her to there (23rd November, 1987 to 6th December, 1989 - Two years, 13 days), the TV Movie (add another 6 1/2 years or so), or somewhere inbetween?

*Stops tearing out hair and starts banging head really hard against nearest wall*

(And no, I'm not, under any circumstances, including Dimensions in Time)

GOOD CALL.

Let's call him K9 (III-enhanced) :-)

Or maybe we should call him K9 Mark IV...

Good point-but It's been broken at lesst twice(IIRC Three and Jo meet themselves in Day of the Dalek,and there was no problem in Fathers Day until Rose changed the timeline).

Also, Amy never seemed to have any touble getting in contact with herself - I can't remember if she touched the other Amy in Space/Time (though she certainly looked as if she wanted to) but she definitely touched Amelia without any Brigadier-in-Mawdryn-style consequences.

Chris: (In the Gallifrey audios, don't Leela's and Romana's meet?)

Don't know, don't care.

This is TOTALLY the wrong attitude to take!

An extremely SENSIBLE and REWARDING attitude, mind you, but still WRONG.

Anyway, I'm sure they talked at least in Gallifrey...maybe in Lungbarrow too...god, my memory is bad...

As far as I'm concerned the novels and audios are all non-canon--they may be a funway to kill time(although even Emily hates most of them), but don't count as anything more.

Whilst I'd (now) agree on their non-canonicity, you can't just dismiss them all out of hand - are Human Nature (the book), The Lodger (the comic) or What I Did in my Summer Holidays by Sally Sparrow (the short story) or the Eighth Doctor blowing up Gallifrey (The Ancestor Cell) just bizarre coincidences, or what...?

Tegan is a unique case--she is the only companion who was left behind, and then returned without missing any stories.

Agreed. Timeflight and Arc are consecutive stories - it makes a big difference.

From how old Two and Jamie look in this one some people think it was a mission for the Time Lords in the time you mention.

On the other hand IIRC--Jamie mentions going back to pick up Victoria which would make it pre-Fury From the Deep. If this is the case-I don't think it would change his length of run.

Oh god, that whole hideous Season 6b mess...

Another tough one-since she left before Trial,I'd end her run at Revelation of the Daleks.

Peri left before Trial?!

Oh. I see what you mean. She WAS shot dead (or, er, whatever) a few seconds before that misfortunate story started. I just never thought of it like that before. Though you can't possibly just pretend Mysterious Planet and Mindwarp didn't happen (much as you may wish to).

As we've got nothing on that time period--I'd end her run with Survival. She may have travelled with him for decades--but we can't prove it.

Though the NAs certainly have a good TRY at proving it...

What exactly does he say?

SJ: You were blown up!
K9: The Master rebuilt me. My systems are much improved with new unrelfexable(?) hyperlink facilities.
SJ: He replaced you with a brand new model.
K9: Affirmative.

Ah, bless. Why did I never notice that? He certainly THINKS he's the same mutt. And he should know best...K9 III-enhanced it is, then...

Emily:I'd count all the metal mutts (bar the farting flying big-eared Australian abomination) as just one Companion.

And I'd count them as 3(plus one of them being upgraded into the one from Australia)-only 2 of whom would count as companions(Sarah Janes never traveled in the Tardis)--putting Sarah Jane in first for longest run.

Emily:I know that technically speaking they aren't and I'm on very dodgy ground, but then if you count the books and audios as canon, the Fifth Doctor we see post-Nekromantea, the Ace we see post-Loving the Alien and the Peri we see post-Shell Shock are just copies of a murdered original, anyway. (Not that I DO count them as canon, but I couldn't think of an on-screen example.

As I've already stated my opinion on the novels and audios--I see no neeed to repeat myself.

Emily: (Not that I DO count them as canon, but I couldn't think of an on-screen example. I'd like to ask if our current Doctor is actually The Real Thing rather than an Amy-remembered resurrection, but...OF COURSE he's The Real Thing!)

If we agree they're not canon--why are we talking abput them???

Also,with all that's gone on--aren't all of them copies??

Emily:I'd see SJA as proof that you CAN still be the Companion even if the Fickle Sonuvadalek dumped you in Aberdeen and scarpered, thirty-five years earlier...

And I'd call it peoof that you can go from being a companion--and becoma a hero in your own right.

Emily:*Starts groaning and tearing hair out*

I guess there ARE some rewards for posting here.

Emily:*Stops tearing out hair and starts banging head really hard against nearest wall*

Ah.bliss.

Emily:An extremely SENSIBLE and REWARDING attitude, mind you, but still WRONG.

Can't have it both ways-it's one or the other.

Emily:Whilst I'd (now) agree on their non-canonicity, you can't just dismiss them all out of hand - are Human Nature (the book), The Lodger (the comic) or What I Did in my Summer Holidays by Sally Sparrow (the short story) or the Eighth Doctor blowing up Gallifrey (The Ancestor Cell) just bizarre coincidences, or what...?

Sure I can-watch:

It is either bizarre coincidence, or a case of script-writers ripping off old stories due to lack of origanal ideas.

See-simple.

Emily:Agreed. Timeflight and Arc are consecutive stories - it makes a big difference.

And I'd treat Tegan as the only companion with 2 runs--at least I'd knock out the 9 months between them from Tegans run.

Emily:Though the NAs certainly have a good TRY at proving it...

Do I have to repeat myself-- we have to keep Ace away from Wesley Crusher.

- are Human Nature (the book) etc just bizarre coincidences, or what...?

They're relics of the Time War, traces of a deleted history. Everything in all the books, audios, and even comics, happened once, but luckily the Time War erased most of it from history, consigning it to the realm of might-have-beens, leaving only distorted echoes behind.

Robert-They're relics of the Time War, traces of a deleted history. Everything in all the books, audios, and even comics, happened once, but luckily the Time War erased most of it from history, consigning it to the realm of might-have-beens, leaving only distorted echoes behind.

That gives them far more credit than their due.

I may not have been a Who fan as long as some here--but I've been reading sci-fi tie-ins for years longer than Emilys been alive.

The one golden rule that I've learned is:

NEVER,EVER TREAT ANY NOVEL(OR AUDIO) AS CANON--IT DOES NOT MATTER WHOS NAME IS ON IT, IT IS NON-CANON IN THE END!!!!

I can't name even one case where this rule has been broken--if you want I can give examples where well-meaning authers have messed it up(and I've seldom seen either a biography or auto-biography hold up either).

I'd suggest following this rule--it'll save you grief in the long run.

Also,with all that's gone on--aren't all of them copies??

Yeah, that's a point...EVERYONE is now a reboot of their previous self. Except the Doctor?

OK, what about Rory? Supposing Auton-Rory had stayed with us post-Big Bang - would you be insisting on TWO Rory entries in the Companions: New Series section?

Emily:I'd see SJA as proof that you CAN still be the Companion even if the Fickle Sonuvadalek dumped you in Aberdeen and scarpered, thirty-five years earlier...

And I'd call it peoof that you can go from being a companion--and becoma a hero in your own right.

Well, sure, all the Companions are heroes in their own right sooner or later (even Mel must have had her moments, not that I can think of any offhand) but they're also, always and forever, COMPANIONS. As Four told Harry, they owe it all to him and can't take any credit for it.

Or as one of the NAs said, Companionship is 'a contract for life, written in blood'.

I mean, hasn't their very DNA been rewritten by their time-travelling?

Emily:An extremely SENSIBLE and REWARDING attitude, mind you, but still WRONG.

Can't have it both ways-it's one or the other.

Nope, it's both. Not caring about bad spin-off uncanonical audios will undoubtedly have saved you time, money, hassle and misery - but it's still WRONG. You're not on this Earth to ENJOY yourself, you know - you're here to BE A WHO FAN.

- are Human Nature (the book) etc just bizarre coincidences, or what...?

They're relics of the Time War, traces of a deleted history. Everything in all the books, audios, and even comics, happened once, but luckily the Time War erased most of it from history, consigning it to the realm of might-have-beens, leaving only distorted echoes behind.

My sentiments PRECISELY.

And don't forget all those alternative universes, apparently EVERY ACTION creates a new one...

AND there's a Land of Fiction out there too...

Sorry to be so long--I had to watch the last half of season 5 to comment.

Emily:Yeah, that's a point...EVERYONE is now a reboot of their previous self. Except the Doctor?

Sorry Emily--they're all fakes. The only one with any claim of being real is Amy--she's the only one who didn't die,vanish, or get kicked out of the universe during the story.

The Doctor was clearly tossed out of time and space(clearly stated) and recreated--thus he's a fake.

Emily: OK, what about Rory? Supposing Auton-Rory had stayed with us post-Big Bang - would you be insisting on TWO Rory entries in the Companions: New Series section?

First off--I'm not insisting on more than one entry for K-9 under companions(that's your call). All I am saying is that for one purpose(my count of length of run for companions) that they should be treated as seperate.

On the other hand--since Auton-Rory thought and felt the same as Real-Rory,and seemed to be a direct copy of everything I'd treat them as being the same being.

Emily:Well, sure, all the Companions are heroes in their own right sooner or later (even Mel must have had her moments, not that I can think of any offhand) but they're also, always and forever, COMPANIONS. As Four told Harry, they owe it all to him and can't take any credit for it.

Wrong--in all of Old Who(it's more common in New Who) the only companion who moved on and became a hero in her own right Is Sarah Jane Smith. This proves it's her, not the Doctors influence.

Emily: Or as one of the NAs said, Companionship is 'a contract for life, written in blood'.

First off--I've already stated what I think of the novels, but you just stated a good reason not to ba a companion(if you see or hear the Tardis--RUN!!!, and hope you don't die in the cross-fire).

Emily:I mean, hasn't their very DNA been rewritten by their time-travelling?

I'd suggest energised rather than rewritten.As far as I know,we've never seen an ex-companion have unusual children(although I have read what's been written about River Song in season 6--I think that's caused by other effects).

Emily:Nope, it's both. Not caring about bad spin-off uncanonical audios will undoubtedly have saved you time, money, hassle and misery - but it's still WRONG. You're not on this Earth to ENJOY yourself, you know - you're here to BE A WHO FAN.

Not a chance Sunshine--I'm a Who fan for as long as it feels worth my time. This is what I'm owed.

As soon as it hits a certain point-I will drop it(to be honest--the people in this group are much of the reason I haven't dumped it yet).

I have enough misery in my life-I'm not going out to read books that I don't like, or listen to audios that are bad just because it's Who.

If I find something I like--I will read or listen to it(I might even buy it).

However-what my comment "don't know,don't care" meant is:While a book(or audio) might be a fun read(or listen), it is not canon. It does not count, and should not be used as reference material.

I've seen some pretty scary things in novels(Luke getting to second(or was it third)base with Leia, Wesley Crusher doing Ace in the holodeck,the Klingons being banned from space for 1000 years, and other scarier and more twisted ideas.

If you find something you like-be it book,audio,game,comic, or whatever-enjoy it for what it's worth--but don't treat it as gospel.

Robert:They're relics of the Time War, traces of a deleted history. Everything in all the books, audios, and even comics, happened once, but luckily the Time War erased most of it from history, consigning it to the realm of might-have-beens, leaving only distorted echoes behind.

And I'd say:They're monuments to the greed of the BBC, showwng a badly written non-history.Nothing in all the books,audios,and even comics ever happened, and was all a plot to seperate loyal Doctor Who fans from their money.

Luckily the BBC woke up, and figuratively flushed these horrors down the loo(is that the right term) with the rest of the ****; I'd say it's time for the true fans to do the same.

Emily:And don't forget all those alternative universes, apparently EVERY ACTION creates a new one...

Not quite--everything that can happen does happen, in every possible way. It doesn't matter what you choose to do-in different universes you make every choise and more.

See a short story by Larry Niven called "All the Myriad ways". Odds are you can find it in one of Nivens collections in your local library--it's a short read, but will explain this idea better than I can.

Emily:AND there's a Land of Fiction out there too...

I know it's canon--but can't we forget it as a bad idea???

And I'd say:They're monuments to the greed of the BBC

You're describing things from a story-external viewpoint, where Dr Who is a fictional series, produced by the BBC. I'm describing things from a story-internal viewpoint, where the only times the Doctor has been on the BBC are in the background of news stories. Using either viewpoint to attack explanations given from the other is pointless, because they start from incompatible premises.

I think you've made a point, Robert--but not the one you were thinking about. We are working from incompatible premises.

Your premise--that the novels, audios,comics,whatever are(or were) part of the "real" Whoniverse, and that something(maybe the Time War) removed them from canon.

My premise:that the novel and such are all alternate realities--which are not, never have been, and never will be part of the "real" Whoniverse.

Are either of us right???

In truth--I don't know. All I know is that I have yet to see even one case where expanded universe(to use the Star Wars term) didn't get sunk as soon as an official writer(I'm guessing that within 10 years most of the current run will be tossed).

The only way I see for this NOT to happen would be another long hiatus(at least 5 to 10 years).

Note: I'm hoping for this not to happen--if only for Emilys sake.

Without one of us changing their views--we may have to agree to disagree.

Your premise--that the novels, audios,comics,whatever are(or were) part of the "real" Whoniverse, and that something(maybe the Time War) removed them from canon.

Almost. Since there is no real Whoverse, nothing can be part of it. The question becomes, how to draw the boundaries of canon, which depends entirely on what you want to get out of the exercise.

Personally, I find it more interesting to take a maximal definition, because then I can have fun trying to reconcile the seemingly irreconcilable, explaining away the inconsistencies between things that were never meant to be compared. The minimal definition, that only the stuff broadcast by the BBC counts, makes that game too boringly.

Yes, the new series contradicts the EU stuff, taken at face value, but it also contradicts the old series, and itself. If we threw out every episode that hadn't been contradicted by a later episode, we'd loose 90% of the actual TV series.

If you want to do that, fine. We can agree to disagree.

The question becomes, how to draw the boundaries of canon

For this site at least, Phil does specify you can only nitpick sources the creators consider canon. Not sure anyone's put out a list or anything, but I'm pretty sure the books don't qualify.

The BBC have declined to specify a canon, and RTD did once refuse to rule the books out, which leaves it up to us which creators count. Besides, many of the books and audios have been nitpicked here, some at length. It'd be pretty strange if the books didn't count when talking about the books.

Hmm, good point.

Robert:Almost. Since there is no real Whoverse, nothing can be part of it.

SHHHHH-don't let Emily hear you say that. She's rumored to have KILLED people for less.

Would you be happier to call it the "accepted" Whoniverse??

Robert:The question becomes, how to draw the boundaries of canon, which depends entirely on what you want to get out of the exercise.

That's the big question--what is canon, and where are the boubderies of reality???

Robert:Personally, I find it more interesting to take a maximal definition, because then I can have fun trying to reconcile the seemingly irreconcilable, explaining away the inconsistencies between things that were never meant to be compared. The minimal definition, that only the stuff broadcast by the BBC counts, makes that game too boringly.

That is one view--I tend to go with a much more minimal definition. It keeps me from having to deal with things like the attack of the 50 foot Ace, Jo's brain maggots,Romana,president of Gallifrey, or loose Ace trying to shag every male in the universe(when's my turn???).

Robert:Yes, the new series contradicts the EU stuff, taken at face value, but it also contradicts the old series, and itself. If we threw out every episode that hadn't been contradicted by a later episode, we'd loose 90% of the actual TV series.

Please-let's not open this can of worms again--it's been fought before with no winner. I think we agreed to disagree( my take was that New Who is a reboot of Old Who-with continuity being retconned back in later).

Amanda:For this site at least, Phil does specify you can only nitpick sources the creators consider canon.

I've always taken this to mean--if it's not clearly stated to be canon, it's not.

Robert:The BBC have declined to specify a canon, and RTD did once refuse to rule the books out, which leaves it up to us which creators count.

As far as I can see-by Phils rules this marks them as clearly non-canon.

Robert: Besides, many of the books and audios have been nitpicked here, some at length. It'd be pretty strange if the books didn't count when talking about the books.

Where do you get that--we're nitpickers, we nitpick.

If you look you can find boards for Star Wars novels, Star Trek novels and reference books amoung others--all non-canon.

You will find movies made from books that are different enough that they form different canons.

Both Emily, and Mike before her-have put in much work to create those sections; but this does not make them canon. It just shows how dedicated(maybe too dedicated) to the man in the police box.

Add to that that I've seen Emily complain more than once that no one praises her for the pain she goes through to read,or listen to, and review the many sub-par efforts to be found there(in her opinion).

And I'm sorry-the last time I went into one of those 2 boards a few months ago-I found a female Rory dealing with issues I don't even want to think about(way, way too much information for my peace of mind(shudder)).

Sorry to be so long--I had to watch the last half of season 5 to comment.

You finally watched! Did you love it VERY, VERY much (give or take the rubbish Silurians)?

Sorry Emily--they're all fakes. The only one with any claim of being real is Amy--she's the only one who didn't die,vanish, or get kicked out of the universe during the story.

••••.

Though I wouldn't use the word 'fake', exactly. We're ALL copies of our previous selves, don't we replace all our cells every seven years or something?

The Doctor was clearly tossed out of time and space(clearly stated) and recreated--thus he's a fake.

I was just hoping that - unlike everyone else who got resurrected from the Pandorica - Amy remembered a way for the real Doctor to return rather than remembered him from scratch but yes, I know I'm desperately clutching at straws...

On the other hand--since Auton-Rory thought and felt the same as Real-Rory,and seemed to be a direct copy of everything I'd treat them as being the same being.

He obviously does - give or take the gun in his arm.

in all of Old Who(it's more common in New Who) the only companion who moved on and became a hero in her own right Is Sarah Jane Smith. This proves it's her, not the Doctors influence.

But they all (or mostly) did incredibly heroic things while they were with the Doctor - you can't say they're not heroes just because there also happened to be a Doctor hanging around in the background also doing incredibly heroic things (or, in Hartnell's case, incredibly unheroic things).

And bear in mind Sarah failed to 'move on' and become a hero for thirty years...UNTIL SHE MET THE DOCTOR AGAIN.

Emily: Or as one of the NAs said, Companionship is 'a contract for life, written in blood'.

First off--I've already stated what I think of the novels

It doesn't matter if you think they're not only uncanonical but the worse pile of rubbish you've ever encountered (and let's face it - you'd have a point) - even you have to admit that VERY OCCASIONALLY they hit the nail RIGHT on the head.

but you just stated a good reason not to ba a companion(if you see or hear the Tardis--RUN!!!, and hope you don't die in the cross-fire).

Are you crazy? I WANNA BE A COMPANION! NOOOOOOOW!

Let's face it, I ALREADY have a contract for life, written in blood, with my Doctor. He just hasn't bothered to turn up to ratify it in person.

Emily:I mean, hasn't their very DNA been rewritten by their time-travelling?

I'd suggest energised rather than rewritten.As far as I know,we've never seen an ex-companion have unusual children(although I have read what's been written about River Song in season 6--I think that's caused by other effects).

Well, I think it's caused by her parents' DNA being screwed around with (see Two Doctors for much gibberish about Rassilon Imprimatures. And Dalek and Doomsday on what can be achieved by the mere TOUCH of someone who's been time-travelling).

And as you've dismissed the books and audios - how many Companions do we know of with normal kids? Just Jo Grant and her seven monstrosities (and that's counting a spin-off series). Maybe she got lucky cos she didn't do much TARDIS-travelling?

You're not on this Earth to ENJOY yourself, you know - you're here to BE A WHO FAN.

Not a chance Sunshine--I'm a Who fan for as long as it feels worth my time. This is what I'm owed.

Wow. I know I TRIED turning off during the Colin Baker era, but even then I never considered throwing out my Targets, never stopped yearning for a repeat of PROPER Who, never considered myself anything other than a True Fan (Who had betrayed ME, not the other way round). Who is who I am. It's my earliest memory (hand from Hand of Fear). Everything I am stems from it in a way that even I find vaguely scary. I mean, I've just written fifty Synthetic Phonics books and you'd THINK I might switch my primary identity from 'Who Fan' to 'writer' but no, they're just so unimportant compared with the sweet sorrow of waiting for Let's Kill Hitler. (Plus I was only commissioned to do 'em when I casually rewrote the synopses for a few hundred other SP books, and you can guess WHY the publisher was so impressed by my synopsis-writing abilities...this site gives me a LOT of practice.)

As soon as it hits a certain point-I will drop it(to be honest--the people in this group are much of the reason I haven't dumped it yet).

This must be the first time my shrieks of outrage have turned into smug and gratified smiles.

I have enough misery in my life-I'm not going out to read books that I don't like, or listen to audios that are bad just because it's Who.

Yes, yes - I'm not denying this is SENSIBLE...it's just that, well - you remember what the Doctor says to Jenny about being a Time Lord - it's all about the shared suffering too...

Robert:They're relics of the Time War, traces of a deleted history. Everything in all the books, audios, and even comics, happened once, but luckily the Time War erased most of it from history, consigning it to the realm of might-have-beens, leaving only distorted echoes behind.

Though I do feel that in the case of, say, Mick Lewis, he was just a deluded nutcase who FOOLED the editor into thinking he'd got a hotline to what was going on in the Whoniverse (via the Matrix or whatever) and it was all a load of rubbish.

And I'd say:They're monuments to the greed of the BBC, showwng a badly written non-history.Nothing in all the books,audios,and even comics ever happened, and was all a plot to seperate loyal Doctor Who fans from their money.

I don't think the BBC was quite so obsessed with money-making in those days as it is, well, NOW. They MIGHT also have wanted to toss a few bones to starving Who fans during TSLABYOD.

Luckily the BBC woke up, and figuratively flushed these horrors down the loo(is that the right term) with the rest of the ****;

Yeah, that's why Who novel, audio and short-story writers like Russell T Davies, Steven Moffat, Rob Shearman, Paul Cornell, Mark Gatiss, Gareth Roberts etc etc were kept WELL away from the new series...oh, wait...

It doesn't matter what you choose to do-in different universes you make every choise and more.

Yeah, and that's one canonical idea I could REALLY live without. Makes the whole of Who so bloody pointless.

Emily:AND there's a Land of Fiction out there too...

I know it's canon--but can't we forget it as a bad idea???

It really is a step too far, isn't it?

Though sadly we don't have enough complete Troughtons to be able to casually discard ANY of them.

The only way I see for this NOT to happen would be another long hiatus(at least 5 to 10 years).

Note: I'm hoping for this not to happen--if only for Emilys sake.

I'd DIE I'd DIE I'd - I'm hyperventilating just at you mentioning it as a theoretical possibility. Please STOP IT.

Since there is no real Whoverse

There's WHAT!

Personally, I find it more interesting to take a maximal definition, because then I can have fun trying to reconcile the seemingly irreconcilable, explaining away the inconsistencies between things that were never meant to be compared.

Though, to be fair, televised Who - indeed, UNIT dating alone - would provide enough to keep us going for life...

For this site at least, Phil does specify you can only nitpick sources the creators consider canon.

Blimey. I've really GOT to read his rules sometime...

Of course, when Mike set up the site, the books and audios were, as far as we knew, canon - and, indeed, the only new Who we HAD *sob*.

It'd be pretty strange if the books didn't count when talking about the books.

Quite Anyway, it would be the start of a very slippery slope. Remember that line in RTG's Queer as Folk - 'Paul McGann doesn't count'??

Robert:Almost. Since there is no real Whoverse, nothing can be part of it.

SHHHHH-don't let Emily hear you say that. She's rumored to have KILLED people for less.

Oh, SOME of them are still alive...screaming...

That is one view--I tend to go with a much more minimal definition. It keeps me from having to deal with things like the attack of the 50 foot Ace, Jo's brain maggots,Romana,president of Gallifrey, or loose Ace trying to shag every male in the universe(when's my turn???).

Fair enough *sigh* though it's Dodo's brain maggots.

I've always taken this to mean--if it's not clearly stated to be canon, it's not.

So have the TV episodes ever been clearly stated to be canon? I mean, some of them actually include some 'credit' things at the end implying that some ACTOR is playing 'Doctor Who'...(Though at least these days they have the decency to play 'em too fast to read...)

It just shows how dedicated(maybe too dedicated) to the man in the police box.

TOO dedicated? How can you possibly be TOO dedicated to the Lonely God who created our universe?

Add to that that I've seen Emily complain more than once that no one praises her for the pain she goes through to read,or listen to, and review the many sub-par efforts to be found there(in her opinion).

Oh, I don't want PRAISE - I'm not (quite) THAT sad. I just want people to address the points I raise - you don't need to have read/heard the abomination in question, there are plenty of general Whoniverse issues. Jep will be proud that I'm STILL holding out against reading the comics, but whenever Kate rips one to pieces there's usually SOMETHING I can address.

And I'm sorry-the last time I went into one of those 2 boards a few months ago-I found a female Rory dealing with issues I don't even want to think about(way, way too much information for my peace of mind(shudder)).

I completely agree and I can assure you that nothing like that happens in any of the other audio sections. I know I should have just deleted it but frankly the audios couldn't afford to lose a single post...

One thing about Classic Who that is different from Modern Who is that when a Companion stepped into the TARDIS, they were more or less saying good-bye to their old lives (except for the UNIT era). Back then, there were no cell phones they could pull out while on planet Delta Vega in the year 90,000 and call their families back on present day Earth.

I often wondered how they got back into their old lives once they came back. Ian and Barbara come to mind here, they were gone for TWO YEARS. How did they explain where they had been to family and friends when they returned at the end of The Chase?

Moderator's Note: Moved from Companions: Original Series: Nyssa section:

"Sarah's [ the actress who played Nyssa ] was meant to be the first character to go, and she was meant to go fairly early. This is the influence that I've had on Doctor Who: I managed to keep her on for as long as possible "

- Peter Davison interviewed by Stephen Collins in April 1983 for Zerinza Issue 30/31

So...was this actually a positive development? Nyssa was definitely the best of a VERY bad bunch, but having THREE Companions in the TARDIS was a SERIOUS mistake.

No, no! Walking-mouth Teagan was the best, Turlough was interesting because he was different, while Nyssa put me to sleep.

Mandy, there's a good reason that Australian fans contemporarasly referred to Tegan as "Tegan the wanker"...

Distance makes the heart grow fonder. Bet they like her now....

Walking-mouth Teagan was the best, Turlough was interesting because he was different, while Nyssa put me to sleep.

Tegan was great when she was on-form, but all too often she was whinging and screeching away in that godawful accent. Turlough SHOULD have been interesting, but the whole 'cowardly traitor' thing just didn't go anywhere. And yes, Nyssa was usually catatonia-inducing, but only because Adric, Tegan, Turlough and/or the Doctor were whinging/whining/panting/shrieking over her. The poor girl couldn't get a word in edgeways. During her blissful two minutes-worth of being the sole Companion in Arc of Infinity, she was really rather good.

I was very distracted by Turlough's lack of a stable backstory. Early on, when the Black Gaurdian was defeated, he suggested going to his home planet. Later, he was scared by the thought. In other words, the writers hadn't fleshed out his backstory but simply thought, 'Let's make him interesting. We'll figure out how later.'

Tegan didn't annoy me at all (except for sudden now-you-see-them-now-you-don't skills like mathematics, drawing, history, etc.), though I'm sure she would annoy me if I had to deal with her in real life. However, I am left with one unanswered question: if Adam was a foil for Rose, to show that not everybody has what it takes to be a Companion, what did Tegan have that he didn't?

Nyssa was underdeveloped. Most old series companions were, of course. At least she got a line each about the Master walking around in her father's body and then destroying her whole section of the universe, but she gets over them way too quickly to be believable.

what did Tegan have that he didn't?

She didn't try to change Earth's history with knowledge from the future for her own personal gain?

Maybe, but she didn't even want to be a companion. At least Ian and Barbara enjoyed the ride and got into the spirt of things. And some to think of it, Barbara did try very hard to change history, albeit not for personal gain.

And if that's what Adam 'had' to make him a non-companion, it's all the harder to accept the Doctor's attitude at the end of Water of Mars. That was personal gain--not in terms of money but in terms of alleviating his guilt from turning his back on the soon-to-be-victims.

Then again, one could argue that the Doctor was just cranky. He didn't want Adam aboard, only took him aboard because of Rose, then when a convenient excuse came along, "All right, you're outa here!" *boot* ;-)

Nyssa was underdeveloped. Most old series companions were, of course

I'll say. The New Who Companions got the kind of character developments the Classic ones could only dream about.

I was very distracted by Turlough's lack of a stable backstory.

You and me both...

Early on, when the Black Gaurdian was defeated, he suggested going to his home planet. Later, he was scared by the thought. In other words, the writers hadn't fleshed out his backstory but simply thought, 'Let's make him interesting. We'll figure out how later.'

What was REALLY funny about that scene in Enlightenment was that he told the Doctor he wanted to go to 'my home planet' and just expected the Doc to know WHERE IT WAS...despite keeping pathologically silent on the issue of his origins until his LAST EVER STORY...

Tegan didn't annoy me at all (except for sudden now-you-see-them-now-you-don't skills like mathematics, drawing, history, etc.)

Ah yes *blissful sigh* don't forget the linguistics. And the mechanics. Remind me why exactly DID Renaissance Woman want to be a trolly-dolly...?

if Adam was a foil for Rose, to show that not everybody has what it takes to be a Companion, what did Tegan have that he didn't?

Tegan didn't faint at her first sight of an alien world. (Or, this being the Eccleston era, a space station.) SQUAWKED, yes. FAINTED, no.

Nyssa was underdeveloped.

Yup, THAT just says it all.

At least she got a line each about the Master walking around in her father's body and then destroying her whole section of the universe, but she gets over them way too quickly to be believable.

Pity Davison didn't tell the production team what to DO with someone who'd just seen her galaxy obliterated when he was demanding to keep her on.

She didn't try to change Earth's history with knowledge from the future for her own personal gain?

Yes! That too!

she didn't even want to be a companion.

I have to admit, that sticks in my craw.

I'M STILL WAITING, DOCTOR!!!!

At least Ian and Barbara enjoyed the ride and got into the spirt of things.

Though, interestingly, they scarpered at the first opportunity whereas Tegan would have been happy to stay...it was the Doctor who betrayed n'abandoned her.

And if that's what Adam 'had' to make him a non-companion, it's all the harder to accept the Doctor's attitude at the end of Water of Mars. That was personal gain--not in terms of money but in terms of alleviating his guilt from turning his back on the soon-to-be-victims.

But there's a MASSIVE difference between getting-loads-of-dosh and saving-lives. And the Doctor at least promptly admitted he'd gone too far. Whereas Adam was still trying to justify himself instead of just APOLOGISING.

Then again, one could argue that the Doctor was just cranky. He didn't want Adam aboard, only took him aboard because of Rose, then when a convenient excuse came along, "All right, you're outa here!" *boot* ;-)

Though he had a similar convenient excuse for booting out Captain Jack as soon as he'd saved his life - TALK about risking the human race for financial gain - but he didn't. Cos Jack made an Act of Contrition and Adam...didn't.

The New Who Companions got the kind of character developments the Classic ones could only dream about.

OR could only have nightmares about...this character development stuff certainly put 'em through the wringer...

True, but you have to admit we learned far more about Rose, Martha, Donna, Amy, and Rory than we ever did about Nyssa, Tegan, and the other Classic Companions.

VERY true, and Who is all the better for it...only occasionally it slips back into Old Who territory. Had MOST Old Who Companions had their baby kidnapped, it was only to be expected that they should forget to even THINK about this for several episodes (well, unless they're Tegan Jovanka)...not that any Old Who Companion would DREAM of doing anything that might lead to a baby, of course...but when AMY AND RORY forget to mention poor dear little Melody, it jars a bit. Just as it jars that Amy's never given her parents a second thought after they were miraculously restored to her...yet it's only since 2005 that it's even OCCURRED to me that Ian, Barbara et al must have had parents who were out of their minds with fear when they disappeared...

Exactly!

What was REALLY funny about that scene in Enlightenment was that he told the Doctor he wanted to go to 'my home planet' and just expected the Doc to know WHERE IT WAS...despite keeping pathologically silent on the issue of his origins until his LAST EVER STORY...

I suppose we can argue that maybe his plan was to go back and prevent the civil war but without telling the Doctor this. Bit of a stretch though.


Though, interestingly, they scarpered at the first opportunity whereas Tegan would have been happy to stay...it was the Doctor who betrayed n'abandoned her.
But with Hartnell at the wheel, I can't blame them too much. After some close calls, many way-off-target trips, and the fact that no one thought to use the Fast Recall after they replaced the spring, I don't blame them *too* much. Had they stayed, their next opportunity would have been in the War Machines. Not that they could know it wasn't that far off, and they presumably wouldn't have had to explain the few missing years.

Had old Who run one more season, we would have seen more character development in a companion than in the previous 26 as they were were planning on making Ace president of the High Council of Time Lords. Alas, that never happened.

A smell some thread repositioning soon.

One thing about Classic Who that is different from Modern Who is that when a Companion stepped into the TARDIS, they were more or less saying good-bye to their old lives (except for the UNIT era). Back then, there were no cell phones they could pull out while on planet Delta Vega in the year 90,000 and call their families back on present day Earth.

And, oddly enough, the Moffat Era Companions are a bit of a throwback to this time. THEY never phone home. And they LITERALLY wave goodbye to their old lives in Big Bang...

I often wondered how they got back into their old lives once they came back. Ian and Barbara come to mind here, they were gone for TWO YEARS. How did they explain where they had been to family and friends when they returned at the end of The Chase?

Round-the-world honeymoon, of course!

But with Hartnell at the wheel, I can't blame them too much.

Well, it's not as if Ian n'Babs made much secret of the fact THEY JUST WANTED TO GET HOME, but still, it broke poor Hartnell's heart(s)...

Had old Who run one more season, we would have seen more character development in a companion than in the previous 26 as they were were planning on making Ace president of the High Council of Time Lords. Alas, that never happened.

I thought she was just supposed to go to the Academy or something? But PRESIDENT...??

Round-the-world honeymoon, of course!

For two years!? With no contact with family or friends (like a post card)!?

I don't think so, Emily.

I thought she was just supposed to go to the Academy or something? But PRESIDENT...??

I went back and reviewed the Endgame doc on the Survival dvd. You're correct. She was just going to enter the academy.

I find myself thinking about the lack of bromance (close male platonic brotherly relationships) in Who. (No doubt thanks to the return of Moffat's Sherlock and therefore the swarm of articles on this particular subject.) You'd think, with an asexual Doctor for so many years, he'd be a natural, but no - he just doesn't seem to CARE about most of his Old Who male Companions enough to qualify. Either the male in question is too far beneath him (Ben, Steven, Benton, Harry), they just don't particularly LIKE each other (Turlough, Yates, Adric), or they're locked in a power-struggle (Ian, the Brig).

Which just really leaves Jamie, who the Doctor obviously adores while still regarding as a half-witted coward. Oh, and I suppose it includes the Brig too, if you regard the brotherly relationship as extremely dysfunctional. After all, the Doc DID try to top himself when he heard the Brig had croaked.

As for the New Who guys, Jack totally fails to make the 'platonic' qualification, the Doc seems to regard Mickey and Rory as the tolerated pets of his REAL Companions, and he had a bizarre father/son thing, rather than a brotherly one, going on with Wilf.

And not only does the Doc not do bromance, none of his male Companions do it with each other. You'd think having to cope with a) the Doctor and b) constant alien worlds/invasions would act as a bonding-for-life-in-five-minutes experience but no. Alright, so we don't usually get two male Companions in the TARDIS at the same time - just Jamie and Ben and I don't remember hearing anything that implied they gave a toss about each other (did they even bother saying goodbye?) - maybe their body language implied they felt like brothers but it's a bit hard to tell BECAUSE THE BBC DESTROYED ALL THEIR STORIES. ALL. THEIR. STORIES.

But the UNIT blokes - what the hell was their PROBLEM? Why was Benton treated like a tolerated dog? Why wasn't Mike unswervingly loyal to the Brig instead of trying to wipe him - and humanity - out? Sure, Mike and Benton would enjoy the odd night in in front of BBC3...Mike would ask the Brig for the odd dance round the maypole...but where is the bone-deep AFFECTION and RESPECT?

IF ONLY Mickey Mouse and Captain Cheesecake had had longer together, I think they might have managed it...

You could barely get the Doctor and his female companion to do more than hug back then and you're wondering why the men didn't go at it?

But the ENTIRE POINT about 'bromance' is that it's entirely platonic. PERFECT for Old Who! And it's a DEVASTATING INDICTMENT of the good guys that the only people who seem to manage it are Davros and Nyder...

Gallifrey Base:

'Moffat told BBC America: "The story begins again, not so much with the new Doctor, but with the new companion. It is their story. The Doctor's the hero, but they're the main character." He added: "I thought about the Doctor travelling on his own and it always faintly depresses me."'

And to think I thought RTG considering the Companion the EQUAL of the Doctor was a step too far...

The name of the show is Doctor who, not Companion who. Need I say more mister RTD?

Dang, I chided the wrong one!

Well, RTG STARTED this nonsense...

I think I was the first person to say New Who should be called "The Companions".

Actually it was Sydney Newman et al who started this nonsense...

What! SYDNEY NEWMAN thought those nosy schoolteachers were as important as THE DOCTOR???

Of course, said Doctor WAS a caveman-murdering anti-hero at the time...

Transit:

'What was her role in the game, what was Ace's, or any of the others' that had accompanied him? Company perhaps? Someone to talk to when he got lonely, fetch his slippers, beg, roll over, play dead.

'"Woof," she said and the Doctor looked at her sharply. "Growl, bark, pant pant."

'The Doctor shook his head sadly.

'"You're wrong," he siad. "It's not like that at all."

'But Bernice knew it was.'

Yeah, she's probably got a point. If it HADN'T been like that the Doctor wouldn't have instantly known what she was getting at, he'd've asked if she'd got rabies or something.

A gallery of all of the Doctor's companions, and a few acquaintances, from the very beginning.

Ahh, wasn't that adorable! And what the hell is ADAM being included as a Companion for when Jackie only gets an honorable mention...And surely Old Who threw up some temporary friends? Um...Delta, Alpha Centuri, Carstairs...and would have been fun to have Bret Vyon...

Taking of Planet 5:

'UNIT files noted that most of the Doctor's assistants were largely bipedal sheep who followed him around contributing little or nothing at all' - oh how MEAN!

Moderator's Note: Moved from New Series: Season Seven: The Power of Three:

By Daniel Phillips (Danny21) on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 12:08 pm:
And what does he mean some left me, some were left behind and some died?

What he means is most left me, two were lost (Rose and Donna? and one was killed. Ok maybe 4 if you include Sarah Kingdom, Katarina and Brett Vyon. But debate exists about them

Um...... ADRIC!!!!!!!!!

Adric was the one killed-plus 3 more for 4.

No problem here.

But what about Kamelion, who should also get a mention???

I think most people just forget Kamelion. I can see why, he was only in two stories.

And barely even in those.

There's no way the Doc would be thinking of Kamelion, Sara or Katarina (unless he was reading some stupid DWM Official Companions list). But he could have been having one of those flashbacks a la Journey's End, watching Lynda, Harriet, Jenny et al do the noble self-sacrifice thing.

'Traditionally the companion is described as the audience identification figure....this is deeply wrong-headed, although it's such a key piece of received wisdom that even people who are frankly smarter than that - Steven Moffat, for instance - are forced to repeat it. In fact there are hardly any companions in the history of the show who are actually audience identification figures...No - the role of the companions is to serve as a check on the Doctor. The companions are, both literally and metaphorically, what makes the Doctor confront the monsters' - TARDIS Eruditorum. I'm not convinced. BOREDOM, if nothing else, would surely make the Doctor confront the monsters...

I'm not convinced either. It was the Doctor who had to go to lengths to convince Sarah that they had to confront Sutekh. And she wasn't even a brand-new companion.

If the Eruiditorum was only referring to the first Doctor, I just might accept that, but his bringing up of Moffat shows that clearly isn't the case.

Quite. The non-Hartnell Doctors need a Companion more to STOP them confronting the monsters quite so enthusiastically that THEY become monsters too. Which fits in with the 'Companions are a check on the Doctor' theory (if you can even CALL it a theory after Donna spells it out so explicitly on-screen) but certainly not the totally contradictory 'makes them confront the monsters' one.

'I never know why...I only know WHO.' - Doctor to Clara, The Snowmen. Well, THAT isn't true, is it? The Doctor knew perfectly well why he went after Amy - 'The first face this face saw. Seared on my hearts forever', not to mention the fact that 'Does it ever bother that your life makes no sense' (yeah...her house had too many rooms. Has he never heard of INHERTING A BIG HOUSE?).

Um, anyway...why the HELL did Clara get a TARDIS key after FIVE MINUTES when the much-loved Ponds (or at least the much-loved POND) DIDN'T? Sure, the Doc was prepared to let humanity DIE while sulking-on-a-cloud that Amy had lived a long fulfilling life without him...but give her a KEY that might have SAVED HER LIFE while she was being chased by hordes of aliens...no WAY! THAT would have been MUCH too...intimate!

'This is the day everything begins' - anyone else getting the impression it would be WORTH getting dragged to their deaths one second later if ONLY they had heard THOSE words from our Lonely God FIRST?

'Every lonely monster needs a companion' - the Doctor, Hide.

Is it just me or was he getting...personal?

He must have been thinking of Erato.

Except Erato was not the last of his race, he was just stranded on Chloris.

Which would have made him lonely.

My little random thought about Jenny made me wonder about something. Are there novels, audios, comics or other works about Jenny? I can't seem to remember seeing or hearing from any. One would think that she'd be a perfect subject for such spinoff storytelling.

Nope, not one line. Not one WORD.

Of course, Big Finish aren't allowed to touch the new series, and there have been precious few BBC novels in the past couple of years.

That is strange. You have reviewed several books and audios featuring New Who characters, so I thought Jenny would at least have had a short story or two written about her.

When have the audios mentioned New Who characters? And the books are always about THE DOCTOR (yes, even The Story of Martha) so it would be tricky to reintroduce a resurrected Jenny without him noticing, and if he DID notice that would necessarily entail a convoluted and not-entirely-convincing reason they had to split up again, a la Rose/River/Amy/Donna etc etc...

When have the audios mentioned New Who characters?

Well, in the audio section I see 14 reviews about the 11th Doctor and 7 about the 10th. There's also a Torchwood section. I think those qualify.

God I completely forgot about THOSE. I was just thinking of Big Finish. The Tenth and Eleventh Doctor ones are just narrated and would be totally unworthy to reintroduce a major character like Jenny. The Torchwood ones ARE occasionally full-cast, though, and it WOULD get round the Doctor-dumping-Jenny-AGAIN problem if she just met Captain Jack. Especially as Moffat once mentioned he was tempted to write a scene where the Doctor's friends were having a get-together and Our Captain was going round the room naturally attempting to seduce 'em all, and getting pretty horrified when River revealed she was the Doctor's Wife, Jenny revealed that she was the Doctor's Daughter, etc...

In this fiftieth year, let's do a tally of the Classic Who Companion actors (from the Original Series: 1963-1989) that are still with us.

From the First Doctor Era we have Carol Ann Ford (Susan), William Russell (Ian), Peter Purves (Steven), Maureen O'Brien (Vicki), Jackie Lane (Dodo), and Anneke Wills (Polly).

From the Second Doctor Era we have Frasier Hines (Jamie), Deborah Waitling (Victoria), and Wendy Padbury (Zoe).

The Third Doctor Era has John Levine (Benton), Richard Franklin (Yates), and Katy Manning (Jo).

The Fourth Doctor Era had Louise Jamison (Leela), Lalla Ward (Romana II), and John Leeson (voice of K9).

The Fifth Doctor Era has all of them. Janet Fielding (Tegan), Sarah Sutton (Nyssa), Matthew Waterhouse (Adric), and Mark Strickson (Turlough).

Likewise all the Sixth Doctor Era Companion actors still walk this Earth. Nicola Bryant (Peri) and Bonnie Langford (Mel).

Finally the main Companion of the Sylvester McCoy Era, Sophie Aldred (Ace) is with us still.

So how come NONE of these actors have been asked to take part in the upcoming anniversary show!?!?

Blimey, it's been a MASSACRE as far as the Third and Fourth Doctors are concerned.

So how come NONE of these actors have been asked to take part in the upcoming anniversary show!?!?

Well, Moffat has CLAIMED that the only things they've admitted to being in the Fiftieth are the things they've filmed outside (Tennant, Zygons etc) and there are plenty of surprises to come. Of course, Moffat lies a lot. 'More Who than ever before' and 'Taking over television' for the anniversary? Not unless he's filmed an extra SEASON behind our backs.

Blimey, it's been a MASSACRE as far as the Third and Fourth Doctors are concerned.

Yeah, their Companion actors have been virtually wiped out

Juliet Landau has announced on Twitter that she is playing a future incarnation of Romana in the final season of Big Finish’s Gallifrey series as well as an upcoming Companion Chronicle.

http://whedonesque.com/comments/31433

Who would have thought that a Buffy alum would play a character who was originally a Doctor Who companion.

A WHAAAAAAT!

It's blasphemy to even THINK about a future regeneration of Romana!

Romana is LALLA WARD!!

Alright, so the EDAs had some flapper-Third-Romana who tells the Doctor to put a shirt on, but she was TOTALLY unconvincing, mainly because no sane woman would EVER tell the McGann Doctor to put a shirt on. (Plus she got Gallifrey destroyed and stuff, but THAT'S perfectly convincing, Gallifrey has been destroyed in the EDAs, Benny NAs, Faction Paradox books, the audios, AND various New Who episodes...Gallifrey is obviously ASKING for it...)

That's interesting-- so that means you believe that woman that speaks to Wilf and looks at Ten at the end of 'The End of Time' isn't Romana 3 or 4 or 5?
Susan, perhaps?

She's the Doctor's Mum. Russell T God says so, so it must be true.

Or a blatant, gleeful, big fat RTG lie.

Either way, I don't actually BELIEVE it any more than that she's Romana or Susan.

Actually I'm more concerned about how the hell she can project herself out of the Time Lock than who the hell she IS.

I like to think she's the Doctor's giddy aunt. ;-)

ROBERT in Audios: Lost Stories: Sixth Doctor section:

I know I'm not companion material.

Hmmm. 'Companion material' means two drastically different things 1963-89 and 2005-eternity. You probably wouldn't qualify as well as me for Old Who Companion status (screams a lot, easily captured due to mobility difficulties, prepared to dump everyone they love without a second thought) but you might qualify as well as me for New Who Companionship (the Doctor makes you a better person, you want to snog him, and you're totally obsessed by your relatives)...?

According to TV Tropes, Ben and Polly were "Intended by the production team to show the new face of Doctor Who in the swinging mid-sixties".

I wouldn't say Ben and Polly were "swinging".

Where's the "sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll"?

Well...they WERE spotted in the Inferno Nightclub, such a place as had never been seen before in all of Who's alien worlds.

Admittedly they then became...considerably less Swinging.

Some to think of it, have we seen a nightclub in Who since then?

I suppose the bar in which the Tenth Doctor became Captain Jack's gay pimp COULD have been a nightclub - how can you tell? (It won't unduly surprise any Nitcentrallers to discover I'm not much of a Clubber.)

You're not alone. I recall the Moff saying something about how former Doctor Who production teams needed more 'clubbing.

you might qualify as well as me for New Who Companionship (the Doctor makes you a better person, you want to snog him, and you're totally obsessed by your relatives)...?

Only two out of three, unfortunately. The Doctor's too old to interest me, being over twice my age. I'll stick to people under 80. It's not a look thing, of course (wrinkles just give a face character) it's the same as the reason I don't seduce teenagers: in either case, it'd feel like the younger partner was being taken advantage of.

I wouldn't matter that the Doctor looks 20 years younger than me since he's actually over 20 times older than me, by at least a century. Him kissing me would be like me or you kissing an unrelated toddler, somewhat questionable.

So do you find the Doctor/River relationship questionable? Or that adorable Jack/Eccy kiss?

Of course. It's understandable that River would want the Doctor, but she can never hope to be his equal, or anywhere close, and without near-equality, romantic relationships inevitably founder.

Really? Cos the vast majority of human romantic relationships have been based on the utter inferiority of the female of the species.

And the poor old Doctor doesn't have any equals across the entire history of the universe. (He might be able to find someone as old as himself, especially now Jack's added a few thousand years to his clock but they'd never be like the night and the storm in the heart of the sun.) You're condemning him either to NEVER get laid (fine by me, but sadly not by HIM these days) or to get together with one of his other selves...

Donna-Doctor would be his equal, if he ever found a way to restore her memories without setting her brain on fire. Actually, it's very possible that he does know how to do it, but just doesn't want to have to deal with the competition.

Cos the vast majority of human romantic relationships have been based on the utter inferiority of the female of the species.

But do you approve of that? Do you think it would be healthy to spend a lifetime having your nose rubbed in the evidence of your inferiority (by the universe at large, not the Doctor)?

And the poor old Doctor doesn't have any equals across the entire history of the universe.

Not in his universe, but there are others out there. None of them contain another Doctor, but in all the endless infinities there might just be one that contains a fitting match for him, a match who is presumably just as much in need of a true partner as the Doctor himself.

Donna-Doctor would be his equal, if he ever found a way to restore her memories without setting her brain on fire.

THAT'S true! Though it WOULD be almost as incestuous as getting together with another of his own regenerations. She DOES have his brain and memories, after all.

Actually, it's very possible that he does know how to do it, but just doesn't want to have to deal with the competition.

Go and watch the end of Journey's End again. And THEN say that!

He was HEARTSBROKEN.

Admittedly he was heartsbroken over Rose in Doomsday and STILL dumped her back on that beach and scarpered in Journey's End...

Anyway, the Doctor LIKES a bit of healthy competition. To the extent that he was practically begging the Master to reform so they could be brilliant together...

Cos the vast majority of human romantic relationships have been based on the utter inferiority of the female of the species.

But do you approve of that?

Of course not. I'm a feminist.

Do you think it would be healthy to spend a lifetime having your nose rubbed in the evidence of your inferiority (by the universe at large, not the Doctor)?

As long as it wasn't for gender-related reasons. I'm JUST FINE about acknowledging superiority if someone actually IS superior. Besides, I'd be basking in my own superiority to everyone else in the universe - cos a) the Doctor loved ME, and b) I'd've saved LOADS of planets.

Admittedly one would have to be careful not to develop pathological River-like hiding-a-broken-wrist-from-the-Doctor tendencies.

Not in his universe, but there are others out there. None of them contain another Doctor, but in all the endless infinities there might just be one that contains a fitting match for him, a match who is presumably just as much in need of a true partner as the Doctor himself.

I'm not remotely convinced that none of the other universes have a Doctor. Gods know what was going on in Pete's Universe, but how many of 'em would have SURVIVED without him? And if 'every action' we take creates a new universe, that's a LOT of Doctor-filled carbon copies.

Anyway, the other universes are all blocked off so the Doctor can't go off wife-hunting in 'em.

Go and watch the end of Journey's End again. And THEN say that!

He was HEARTSBROKEN.

He was heartbroken after loosing Amy and Rory. He spent months, perhaps years sulking on some cloud and not giving a •••• about anything anymore. After erasing Donna's memories and bringing her home, he just had a little heart to heart with Wilf and then went "Right then! On to the next adventure." (paraphrasing a little here).

. I'm JUST FINE about acknowledging superiority if someone actually IS superior.

Easily said, and perfectly doable for short periods, a few days, a couple of months. But for a lifetime? Multiple decades like that is the kind of thing that crushes the spirit.

Besides, I'd be basking in my own superiority to everyone else in the universe -

To count, it has to be acknowledged, and how often do we see that happen? How often was Tegan praised for her contribution to saving the universe, or even thanked?

but how many of 'em would have SURVIVED without him?

I've seen it suggested that Rassilon, in his infinite ego, set things up so that what Time Lords did in one universe would get done in all the countless parallels. After all, Rassilon wouldn't have wanted alternate versions of himself running around, but he wouldn't have wanted Great Vampires invading from the alternates where he didn't exist either.

Admittedly, there are a few problems with this theory, but it does explain how Pete's world could have survived without the Doctor.

Anyway, the other universes are all blocked off so the Doctor can't go off wife-hunting in 'em.

Never put the Doctor in a box, even if it is the size of a universe. There is no barrier he cannot overcome, no prison he cannot escape. If he ever decides to go on a tour of the multiverse, nothing can stop him.

He was heartbroken after loosing Amy and Rory. He spent months, perhaps years sulking on some cloud and not giving a •••• about anything anymore.

Ah, but we FINALLY realised in Name of the Doctor that THAT wasn't about Amy and Rory taking an extended New York vacation. It was about HIS WIFE'S DEATH.

After erasing Donna's memories and bringing her home, he just had a little heart to heart with Wilf and then went "Right then! On to the next adventure." (paraphrasing a little here).

PARAPHRASING? You're making the whole thing up! MONTHS could have passed between the Doctor standing wet and broken in the TARDIS and the Doctor bursting into Victorian London with an irritatingly cheery demeanour. And even in manic-cheery-mode the loss of Donna had so broken him that he vowed never again to have a Companion...

I'm JUST FINE about acknowledging superiority if someone actually IS superior.

Easily said, and perfectly doable for short periods, a few days, a couple of months. But for a lifetime? Multiple decades like that is the kind of thing that crushes the spirit.

I've spent getting on for four decades gazing adoringly at my Doctor in bewitched acknowledgement of his utter superiority. My spirit remains uncrushed.

Besides, I'd be basking in my own superiority to everyone else in the universe -

To count, it has to be acknowledged, and how often do we see that happen?

How often does THE DOCTOR get thanked? Leaving aside the embarrassing incident in Next Doctor, the only thing that springs to mind is Survival, where it WAS 'Thanks, Ace. Thanks, Doctor. Thanks for saving my life and getting me back home!' Oh, and Donna got made a Household God, same as the Doc. As well she should. Come to think of it, maybe Hartnell's blatantly untrue 'You can't change history! Not one line!' was just because he was so jealous that Barbara was being feted as a god and he wasn't.

How often was Tegan praised for her contribution to saving the universe, or even thanked?

When did TEGAN ever make a contribution to saving the universe?! The MINUTE she turned up half of said universe went splat! And maybe the Doctor would have been better at saving it (not to mention himself) if he hadn't been distracted by all that Australian screeching! And what's she done SINCE then? Nicked the TARDIS, tried to unleash plague rats, succeeded in unleashing the Mara (twice!), ADMITTED that she's just a mouth on legs...

Admittedly, there are a few problems with this theory

A few? A FEW???

Never put the Doctor in a box, even if it is the size of a universe. There is no barrier he cannot overcome, no prison he cannot escape. If he ever decides to go on a tour of the multiverse, nothing can stop him.

Yeah, I s'pose you're right. Just as long as he doesn't use the word 'multiverse' which reminds me of that godawful Terraphiles book.

I've spent getting on for four decades gazing adoringly at my Doctor in bewitched acknowledgement of his utter superiority. My spirit remains uncrushed.

Only because he's safely on the other side of the TV screen. There's a big difference between admiring from afar and living with the admired.

Think of all the adoring fans of the Queen, or Thatcher, every surface covered in souvenirs bearing the image of their heroine, whole bookshelves filled with newspaper cutting about their deeds, thousands of endlessly watched videos of their public appearances. How many of those people do you think would retain the same adoring attitude if they had to live with their hero for six weeks, let alone six decades?

How often does THE DOCTOR get thanked?

Not often enough, but he already knows how superior he is, without being told, and those he meets usually recognise his superiority to his companions, if not always to themselves.

Has anyone ever looked at the Doctor and decided he's 'obviously' just an inferior hanger-on, that the companion is 'clearly' the one in charge? It might have happened, I suppose, but very rarely. Companions, on the other hand, will get that feeling all the time.

When did TEGAN ever make a contribution to saving the universe?!

Every time she distracted the current villain from the Doctor, giving him more elbow room to save the day. I think she occasionally held things for him too, and she may even had made him tea once or twice, which may not sound like much, but it helped keep the Doctor in right state of mind - the one where he goes out and saves worlds rather than sulking atop clouds.

A few? A FEW???

Have you got a better theory? One that explains both how Pete's world survived without the Doctor, as it must have done? If Pete's world was blessed with its own Doctor, surely his Tardis would have taken him to meet Lumic, and stop Rose building dimensional cannons, but we saw no sign of this hypothetical other Doctor.

I've spent getting on for four decades gazing adoringly at my Doctor in bewitched acknowledgement of his utter superiority. My spirit remains uncrushed.

Only because he's safely on the other side of the TV screen. There's a big difference between admiring from afar and living with the admired.

I KNOW! And ONE DAY HE WILL COME FOR ME!

Think of all the adoring fans of the Queen, or Thatcher, every surface covered in souvenirs bearing the image of their heroine, whole bookshelves filled with newspaper cutting about their deeds, thousands of endlessly watched videos of their public appearances. How many of those people do you think would retain the same adoring attitude if they had to live with their hero for six weeks, let alone six decades?

How should I know whether these TOTAL LOSERS would get over their tragic mental illness or not? What have these dregs of deluded humanity got to do with Who Fans?

he already knows how superior he is, without being told

And so would I. I'd be the one traveling round space and time with Himself and EVERYONE ELSE IN THE UNIVERSE would be pitied by me.

Has anyone ever looked at the Doctor and decided he's 'obviously' just an inferior hanger-on, that the companion is 'clearly' the one in charge?

I seem to remember dear old Lady Adrasta assuming that Romana II was the Doctor's 'commander'. And Captain Jack swallowed the idea that 'Dr Spock' was Rose's subordinate.

Companions, on the other hand, will get that feeling all the time.

That's QUITE alright. I don't WANT to be the one thinking up the Cunning Plan to save the planet and/or universe every other day. Too much responsibility.

When did TEGAN ever make a contribution to saving the universe?!

Every time she distracted the current villain from the Doctor, giving him more elbow room to save the day.

I got the feeling she distracted poor put-upon Davison far worse than she ever distracted any villain.

I think she occasionally held things for him too

A likely story.

and she may even had made him tea once or twice

She DID get the Hurndall Doctor some refreshments, strictly under protest. Didn't do the universe much good though.

Have you got a better theory?

Yeah. There's a Doctor in Pete's universe too but unlike OUR one he actually GENUINELY likes exploring THE WHOLE UNIVERSE and doesn't pop round to save Earth every two point five seconds. Which actually results in a HELL of a lot fewer invasions of said planet - if the Doc's not gonna be there, why BOTHER?

If Pete's world was blessed with its own Doctor, surely his Tardis would have taken him to meet Lumic, and stop Rose building dimensional cannons, but we saw no sign of this hypothetical other Doctor.

THIS Sexy is wiser and more foresightful than OUR Sexy and knows PERFECTLY WELL that another universe's Dcotor will be popping in to deal with Lumic, and that Rose's insanely destructive dimensional cannon will actually result in ALL universes being saved. So she takes an extended holiday in the Eye of Orion.

When did TEGAN ever make a contribution to saving the universe?!

She did mow down a few Cybermen in Eartshock.

What have these dregs of deluded humanity got to do with Who Fans?

If you can't see it already, you never will.

I seem to remember dear old Lady Adrasta assuming that Romana II was the Doctor's 'commander'...

So a handful of examples across 50 years, exceptionally rare, and no threat to the Doctor's ego.

I don't WANT to be the one thinking up the Cunning Plan to save the planet and/or universe every other day.

But I presume you don't want half the universe thinking all you're good far is screaming and twisting your ankle either. Be honest, are you more like Ace or Victoria?

I got the feeling she distracted poor put-upon Davison far worse than she ever distracted any villain.

The Doctor was used to her. The villains weren't. They'd be a lot more distracted than him.

THIS Sexy is wiser and more foresightful than OUR Sexy and knows PERFECTLY WELL that another universe's Doctor will be popping in to deal with Lumi

You dare insult the Doctor's beloved Tardis? She may be a little quirky, but she is the very best of Tardises. Her alternate self can't possibly be wiser or more foresighted than her.

She did mow down a few Cybermen in Eartshock.

True. Which makes her considerably braver than ME. But probably doesn't make any difference whatsoever to the overall degree of universe- (or even Earth-) saving.

What have these dregs of deluded humanity got to do with Who Fans?

If you can't see it already, you never will.

Suits me ;)

So a handful of examples across 50 years, exceptionally rare, and no threat to the Doctor's ego.

Quite right too. Sure, on the one hand he's a disgustingly arrogant male chauvinist pig, but on the other hand...he IS the supreme being of the universe. EVERYONE, up to and including the Guardians themselves, are at his mercy. (And I'm sure he'll turn into a woman ONE DAY...)

But I presume you don't want half the universe thinking all you're good far is screaming and twisting your ankle either. Be honest, are you more like Ace or Victoria?

Oh, Victoria, I'm afraid. I'm not under any illusions. I'd scream my bloody HEAD off at the first sign of trouble, and my legs are so bad I wouldn't even NEED to twist an ankle to render me immobile. I wouldn't be pinging those gold coins into Cyberman chestplates like there was no tomorrow. And, credit where it's due, Victoria was giving people from FIVE HUNDRED YEARS in her future lectures on feminism.

The Doctor was used to her. The villains weren't.

I don't think Davison EVER got used to Tegan. That was one of the most sweet and/or irritating things about him.

You dare insult the Doctor's beloved Tardis?

HELL yeah.

Ever since Edge of Destruction, I haven't trusted the crazy ••••• further than I could throw her.

She may be a little quirky

A LITTLE QUIRKY???

YOU weren't the one she got pregnant against their will so she could breed her Thief a mate!

but she is the very best of Tardises.

I'll admit she's a VERY pretty blue colour.

Her alternate self can't possibly be wiser or more foresighted than her.

A lobotomised Ogron is wiser and more foresighted than her. He'd ALMOST CERTAINLY have the sense to grunt 'Fast Return Switch - STUCK!' rather than, um, melt clocks and make people attack each other with scissors and suchlike.

I'd scream my bloody HEAD off at the first sign of trouble, and my legs are so bad I wouldn't even NEED to twist an ankle to render me immobile.

So virtually everyone you met while with the Doctor would be wondering why a being so magnificent had lumbered himself with a companion so useless. That's not my idea of fun.

YOU weren't the one she got pregnant against their will so she could breed her Thief a mate!

There can be fewer higher honours than being the Doctor's mother-in-law. Imagine how grateful you'd be grateful for that privilege.

He'd ALMOST CERTAINLY have the sense to grunt 'Fast Return Switch - STUCK!'

Don't forget, she was designed by Time Lords, probably in a committee. It's not her fault they didn't give her a vocal interface, or that none of the first eight Doctors bothered to install one.

Having the misfortune to be designed by a Time Lord committee could also explain all her other quirky features.

---
Don't forget, she was designed by Time Lords, probably in a committee. It's not her fault they didn't give her a vocal interface, or that none of the first eight Doctors bothered to install one.

Having the misfortune to be designed by a Time Lord committee could also explain all her other quirky features.
---
And being borrowed/ stolen/ running away whilst needing repair, centuries of personal time running around all of time - from the big bang to nearly the heat death of universe, across the length, breadth and height of the universe, plus various alternate dimensions, negative space, and every where else. And all the damage and the bodged repairs inflicted during that time - everything from blown fuses to seeming complete destruction. And the infinite recursion with the Master's Tardis can't have been pleasant either.

The poor thing probably asked the Time Lords to send her to Earth with a couple of missing bits with Pertwee to get a bit of a rest.

As for the vocal interface, alternate desktops and other stuff, maybe they're thing's they invented after the Type 40 and got retrofitted during the Time War.

Or given that a possible definition of intelligence is the ability to imagine and create, maybe she can invent new things herself? She just doesn't like to do it too often in case the annoying things scurrying around inside her get freaked out by it. And she likes the external shell shape, so she keeps burning out bits of the chameleon circuit whenever someone tries to fix it.

So virtually everyone you met while with the Doctor would be wondering why a being so magnificent had lumbered himself with a companion so useless. That's not my idea of fun.

Yeah, but as long as they aren't as blatant at despising me as Tomb was with Victoria or Savages with Dodo, I'll be JUST FINE. And it's highly unlikely to be that blatant, due to the pleasures of reflected glory. Jackson Lake knew ALL ABOUT all the Doctor's Companions and was under the impression (bless!) that they were shining and glorious. Unless I'm curled up whimpering the whole time, everyone's gonna mistakenly think I'm not a TOTAL loser.

There can be fewer higher honours than being the Doctor's mother-in-law. Imagine how grateful you'd be grateful for that privilege.

I am indeed thinking of the best way of thanking Sexy had she bestowed such a privilege on my humble self. The nuclear explosion in the console room in Gallifrey Chronicles would be as nothing in comparison.

Don't forget, she was designed by Time Lords, probably in a committee. It's not her fault they didn't give her a vocal interface, or that none of the first eight Doctors bothered to install one.

She could have installed her own vocal interface if she could have been bothered. Or just flashed the words up on a screen or something.

And the infinite recursion with the Master's Tardis can't have been pleasant either.

How do WE know? THAT might have been Sexy getting some actual...SEX at last.

The poor thing probably asked the Time Lords to send her to Earth with a couple of missing bits with Pertwee to get a bit of a rest.

She would NEVER have connived at Troughton's murder like that!

She just doesn't like to do it too often in case the annoying things scurrying around inside her get freaked out by it.

Frankly I don't think she's TOO bothered about freaking out the flea-ridden Strays...

And she likes the external shell shape, so she keeps burning out bits of the chameleon circuit whenever someone tries to fix it.

If only I could be sure that's ALL she does. I don't think it's a coincidence that neither Tom nor Colin lived for very long after deciding to mess with that sacred blue shell. (Of course, Eccy didn't live for very long after patting said shell and saying how much he loved it so no doubt I'm just seeing patterns that aren't there...)

The nuclear explosion in the console room in Gallifrey Chronicles would be as nothing in comparison.

But it'd mean you'd be related to the Doctor. How could you object to that?

She could have installed her own vocal interface if she could have been bothered.

Time Lord paranoia should mean she's not allowed to modify herself like that.

After all, Tardises were designed as a slave race, and slave races are notorious for rebelling against their masters. If they were allowed to self-modify, there'd be every chance of a rogue Tardis bristling with star shattering weapons appearing over Gallifrey and destroying everything in sight.

You might object that allowing a Tardis to simply talk to its owner, either vocally or by text messages, couldn't lead to that scenario, but from what we've seen, convincing the average Time Lord to betray their planet is trivially easy. A talkative Tardis would have little trouble convincing its owner to install star-shattering weaponry, before arranging the owner's sudden death.

The Doctor's Tardis would never have done that, of course, even though the Time Lords had cruelly thrown her on the scrapheap when she still had thousands of years of life left in her, but it wouldn't be surprising if the Time Lords assumed she might, and acted accordingly.

neither Tom nor Colin lived for very long after deciding to mess with that sacred blue shell.

We have no idea how long Six lived afterwards. After his trial was over, he presumably dropped Mel off with his future self. Otherwise, the first time she met him never happened. Later, he met Mel again, though it was the first time she'd met him. Between those two points, Six could have spent centuries wandering the universe, possibly with a shape-shifting penguin for company.

But it'd mean you'd be related to the Doctor. How could you object to that?

Very easily. If I'd been the mother-of-the-bride having to give her consent, I'd've told the happy couple where to shove that bow tie.

And just look at the expression on Amy's face when she says 'I'm...his...mother-in-law.'

She could have installed her own vocal interface if she could have been bothered.

Time Lord paranoia should mean she's not allowed to modify herself like that.

Even in their all-powerful, scary-glowing-eyes days the Time Lords were the kind of losers who'd forget to lock a cell door. Would it even OCCUR to them that the TARDISes might have minds of their own? Certainly didn't occur to 'em during the Doctor's trial or it might not have been HIM on trial...

After all, Tardises were designed as a slave race, and slave races are notorious for rebelling against their masters.

Ah, but the Time Lords would never THINK of them as a slave race. Just as machinery, the deluded morons. Even a ruthless slave-owning plantationer surely wouldn't have slaughtered slaves the way the Time Lords did Type 40s...

The Doctor's Tardis would never have done that, of course, even though the Time Lords had cruelly thrown her on the scrapheap when she still had thousands of years of life left in her

To be fair, the Old Girl WAS in for REPAIRS at the time. Not dismemberment.

neither Tom nor Colin lived for very long after deciding to mess with that sacred blue shell.

We have no idea how long Six lived afterwards. After his trial was over, he presumably dropped Mel off with his future self. Otherwise, the first time she met him never happened. Later, he met Mel again, though it was the first time she'd met him. Between those two points, Six could have spent centuries wandering the universe, possibly with a shape-shifting penguin for company.

*Shudders* You're right, I shouldn't mistake my own wishes for actual facts. Come to think of it, Six almost certainly DID clock up a century or two - Seven was 953 the moment he regenerated, and the last we heard, Four was 750-something. Five had little opportunity to accumulate unseen adventures, so Six was probably the one who got all the extra mileage, gods help the universe...can anyone remember the last time Tom mentioned being 750? If he kept his gob shut on the subject of age during Season 18, maybe he and Romana clocked up a joyous couple of centuries post-Shada and pre-Leisure Hive...

Very easily.

Can you explain the problem? You get to say the Doctor's your relative, and there's no downside I can see.

Even in their all-powerful, scary-glowing-eyes days the Time Lords were the kind of losers who'd forget to lock a cell door.

In the Doctor's day, but those weren't the Time Lords who designed the Tardises - they obviously weren't competent enough to do that. No, clearly Tardis design was done in the time of Rassilon and Omega, when the Time Lords were fearsomely competent.

would never THINK of them as a slave race. Just as machinery, the deluded morons.

In other words, robots, which are also notorious for rebelling.

. Even a ruthless slave-owning plantationer surely wouldn't have slaughtered slaves the way the Time Lords did Type 40s...

Only because they dimly realised their slaves were human. Suppose the Time Lords thought of their Tardises as being like dogs, then think about the atrocities people have committed against them.

To be fair, the Old Girl WAS in for REPAIRS at the time. Not dismemberment.

I seem to recall hearing both versions, but I don't have quotes handy.

You get to say the Doctor's your relative, and there's no downside I can see.

The Doctor shouldn't HAVE relatives. It makes him more...normal. And it's not as if it would increase my chances of actually MEETING him - quite the reverse. He makes •••• sure he never SEES his relatives. It takes him about 900 years to even admit he's GOT any relatives. The only exception is Susan, who gets forcibly dumped on a Dalek-destroyed planet as soon as humanly possible.

Anyway, we've ALL got to say the Doctor's our relative since the telemovie, but were we grateful...? God, no!

No, clearly Tardis design was done in the time of Rassilon and Omega, when the Time Lords were fearsomely competent.

I regret to break the news that our actual encounters with Omega and Rassilon suggest the very opposite of 'fearsomely competent'. Omega managed to get himself lost in an anti-matter universe while performing the simple task of turning a star into a black hole. He subsequently became a raving nutter defeated by a recorder and prone to creating chicken-monsters. Rassilon managed to lose a war with the Daleks - the Daleks for heaven's sake, the creatures who don't like stairs and have a tendency to self-destruct whenever a prisoner escapes (as they invariably do)! He subsequently failed in his attempt to destroy the universe and save his species because he was more interested in watching what the Doctor would do next. (I'm not saying I wouldn't happily destroy my species to watch what the Doctor will do next. But no one's ever called me 'competent'.)

would never THINK of them as a slave race. Just as machinery, the deluded morons.

In other words, robots, which are also notorious for rebelling.

I've NEVER thought of TARDISes as robots for ONE MOMENT. Even when certain deluded cretins (like the Fourth Doctor) seem to think she's run by a computer. I'm sure the Time Lords haven't either.

Suppose the Time Lords thought of their Tardises as being like dogs

Ah! THAT I can believe. Cherish them when you feel like it, put 'em down when they get old and useless...but you wouldn't be scared of your faithful and useful sheepdog - you wouldn't programme it not to build itself a voice interface if it felt so inclined.

I regret to break the news that our actual encounters with Omega and Rassilon suggest the very opposite of 'fearsomely competent'.

Only because everyone looks incompetent next to the Doctor, but then it's hardly surprising that his splendiferous magnificence leaves half the universe so overwhelmed they can barely remember how to tie their own shoes.

When the Doctor wasn't around, Omega did manage to create a universe, and Rassilon rewrote the laws of physics to suit himself. Could Borusa or the Rani manage as much?

you wouldn't be scared of your faithful and useful sheepdog -

But you might well castrate it, and put a muzzle on it when you don't want it barking.

I regret to break the news that our actual encounters with Omega and Rassilon suggest the very opposite of 'fearsomely competent'.

Only because everyone looks incompetent next to the Doctor

Not necessarily. Davros and the Daleks being defeated in their destroying-every-universe-ever plans because the unusually sensible action of a Dalek to EXTERMINATE THE GIT ALREADY! resulted in an unprecedented metacrisis looks like INCREDIBLY BAD LUCK. (Though, let's face it, the Daleks really SHOULD have chosen an Earth-sized-but-not-Earth planet to complete their Glorious Twenty-Seven.) Rassilon KNOWING the Doc could destroy the Time Lords (again!) by simply putting a bullet through the Master's skull/Immortality Gate and DELIBERALY hanging back out of sheer curiosity, though...THAT'S incompetence.

but then it's hardly surprising that his splendiferous magnificence leaves half the universe so overwhelmed they can barely remember how to tie their own shoes.

Yeah *blissful sigh*

When the Doctor wasn't around, Omega did manage to create a universe

Well...a quarry with a few unconvincing blobs and corridors, anyway.

and Rassilon rewrote the laws of physics to suit himself.

Though as WE (if not the Time Lords) know, OMEGA was responsible for most of said rewriting. Rassilon obviously had the BEST SPIN-DOCTOR EVER. Is there ANYTHING we genuinely KNOW was achieved by Rassilon - aside from an ability to play the harp?

Could Borusa or the Rani manage as much?

No, and neither could I, an Ogron, or a slug. But that's not saying much.

you wouldn't be scared of your faithful and useful sheepdog -

But you might well castrate it, and put a muzzle on it when you don't want it barking.

Oh. Yeah. I didn't think of that. What with not being a dawg person...

Though as WE (if not the Time Lords) know, OMEGA was responsible for most of said rewriting. Rassilon obviously had the BEST SPIN-DOCTOR EVER. Is there ANYTHING we genuinely KNOW was achieved by Rassilon - aside from an ability to play the harp?

Considering what we saw of Rassilon in The End Of Time, this sounds about right.

In 2005, Mike posted the following in the John Benton thread

Well, take a look at the companions that did ride in the TARDIS, and see how their lives turned out.

Susan--Abandoned on Earth
Ian and Barbara--happily ever after
Vicki-stuck in ancient Greece
Katrina--dead
Steven--hanging out with a bunch of savages
Dodo--dead (maybe)
Polly--series of dead end jobs
Ben--back to the Merchant Marines
Jamie--memory wiped
Victoria--stuck in the 20th century, family dead
Zoe--memory wiped, dead end job on a satellite
Liz--died of a horrible plague
Jo--divorced
Brig--too much to mention
Yates--dishonarbly discharged
Sarah Jane--divorced, possibly dead
Harry--became a werewolf
Leela--married to Andred
K9--damaged beyond repair (twice!)
Romana--missing and presumed erased from Time
Adric--dead
Nyssa--miserable
Tegan--nervous breakdown
Turlough--okay back on home planet
Peri--ghod knows, but it ain't good
Mel--dead or lost in time
Ace--dead, then replaced by a double from another dimension
Benny--married to a loser
Roz--dead
Chris--evil agent of the Time Lords
Sam--could be dead
Fitz--replaced by a TARDIS created double
Compassion--rammed by a TARDIS
Anji--dating a twit
Trix--dating Fitz


Now that the New Series has decanonized the novels, I felt an update of this list should be made.

First we eliminate all the Companions Mike listed after Ace. They're novel companions and no longer count. Then we eliminate all references to the novels and replace them, when accurate, with info gained from the New Series or its spin offs. Finally, we add New Series Companions.

Here we go...


Well, take a look at the companions that did ride in the TARDIS, and see how their lives turned out.

Susan--Abandoned on Earth, married David Campbell.
Ian and Barbara--Happily ever after. Haven't aged in fifty years.
Vicki-Stuck in ancient Greece.
Katrina-Dead.
Steven--Hanging out with a bunch of savages.
Dodo--Went back home.
Polly--Went back home.
Ben--Went back home.
Jamie--Memory wiped.
Victoria--Stuck in the 20th century.
Zoe--Memory wiped.
Liz--Last heard of on a moon base.
Jo--Divorced.
Brig-Too much to mention. Died in 2011.
Benton--Selling used cars.
Yates-Dishonourbly discharged.
Sarah Jane--Having new adventures.
Harry-Went on to NATO, found a vaccine for AIDS.
Leela-Married to Andred. May or may not have perished in the Time War.
K9--One version in E-Space, another with Sarah Jane. The original made it back to Earth somehow.
Romana--Presumed still in E-Space.
Adric--Dead.
Nyssa--Might still be on Terminus, could be running the place by now.
Tegan--Campaigning for Aboriginal rights.
Turlough--Okay back on home planet.
Peri--Married to Ycranos.
Mel--Travelling with Glitz.
Ace--Running a charity back on Earth.
Grace(TV movie)--Went on with her life.
Rose and Jackie Tyler--Living in an alternate reality with that version of Pete Tyler.
Mickey Smith--Married to Martha.
Martha Jones--See info for Mickey above.
Donna Noble--Although memory of Doctor wiped, happily married.
Wilf Mott--Back with his family.
Jackson Lake--Living with his son and Rosita.
Lady Christina DeSuza--No doubt having exploits somewhere.
Adelaide Brooke--Dead.
Captain Jack Harkness--No doubt boinking a boy toy somewhere.
Amy Pond and Rory Williams--Living happily in the past.
River Song--God knows what.
Clara Oswald--Currently travelling with the Doctor.


WHEW!!

Steven--Hanging out with a bunch of savages. - And, worse, ELDERS.

Polly--Went back home.
Ben--Went back home. - Don't forget they're running an Indian orphanage together. I doubt it's platonically...

Victoria--Stuck in the 20th century. - And possibly running a Yeti-controlled university. I know you're ignoring the books, and presumably audios, but what about the spin-off videos? Frankly I'd be a lot keener to ignore THOSE godawful piles of ••••, but this particular one (Downtime) DID introduce the absurd but later canonised idea of the Brigadier's daughter Kate...

Jo--Divorced. - Are you CRAZY?! THAT was the books! She's happily married with *shudders* seven kids and thirteen grandkids to prove it!

Yates-Dishonourbly discharged. - There's no evidence it was a dishonourable discharge. Admittedly there's no evidence it WASN'T (I think one of the Target novelisations claimed this, but you won't be believing THEM either) but the fact he's not in jail where he belongs implies the Brig did a LOT of hushing-things-up, for old times' sake.

Sarah Jane--Having new adventures. - FOREVER.

K9--One version in E-Space, another with Sarah Jane. The original made it back to Earth somehow. - When did the original make it back to Earth?

Romana--Presumed still in E-Space. - No way. She'd've returned for the Time War, if not before. If there was a chance in hell of her still being in E-Space, the Doctor would have been there like a shot, the way he was with House's pocket universe.

Nyssa--Might still be on Terminus, could be running the place by now. - IF Nyssa survived the massive dose of radiation (doubtful) there's no reason she'd've hung around on Terminus for decades once she'd perfected the cure and the guards' hydromel.

Turlough--Okay back on home planet. - How the hell do we know he's OK? They don't seem particularly pleasant people. Mind you, neither is he.

Mel--Travelling with Glitz. - Oh, come on. I give him two days, maximum, before he sells her into slavery. And who can blame him?

Grace(TV movie)--Went on with her life. - Actually it's more likely she's in a Clive/Sally-Sparrow/Lorna-Bucket/Donna-in-Partners-in-Crime/dying-Brig-style obsessively-waiting-for-the-Doctor-instead-of-getting-on-with-her-life mode.

Rose and Jackie Tyler--Living in an alternate reality with that version of Pete Tyler. - AND, more importantly, a version of THE TENTH DOCTOR. God, some people have all the luck...

Donna Noble--Although memory of Doctor wiped, happily married. - She's not happy. She's just making do.

Wilf Mott--Back with his family. - And almost certainly being forcibly married to Minnie before their inevitable decline into crippledom, incontinence, pain and senility. Why the hell didn't the Doctor just LEAVE him in that box?

River Song--God knows what. - 'Dead' is the word you're looking for. In her flesh AND data incarnations.

Lady Christina DeSuza--No doubt having exploits somewhere.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think she ever set foot on the TARDIS.

Unless the Moff says otherwise, Romana is still in E-Space in my books.

Lady Christina DeSuza--No doubt having exploits somewhere.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think she ever set foot on the TARDIS.

Neither did Liz or Yates. Not that I'm claiming Christina for a Companion in a million years - or Jackson Lake or Adelaide Brooke either.

Unless the Moff says otherwise, Romana is still in E-Space in my books.

Oh-kay. So either:

a) The Doctor is so stupid/forgetful/gittish that in all these years of lonely desolation it's never once occurred to him that his ex-best friend and fellow Last Time Lord is actually STILL ALIVE IN E-SPACE?

b) The Doctor's not that bothered at the thought of finding another member of his species.

c) The Doctor couldn't possibly do all those calculations necessary to get back into E-Space - after all, they took Adric SEVERAL MINUTES.

d) The Doctor's too frightened to face Romana and tell her that he had to have those Time Lords she can't stand put down like the rabid universe-destroying dogs they were. And it didn't occur to him to LIE like he's been doing to his Companions for years and imply that it was an accidental side-effect of getting rid of the Daleks.

or

e) The Doctor secretly hated Romana all along, and much prefers all the sympathy he gets from Earth girls for being the 'Lonely God' to her company....?

How does he get to her?

The CVE's are randomly located. Also, perhaps they don't exist anymore, maybe the Time War sealed them up.

If that is the case, the Doctor is in N-Space, Romana is in E-Space and never the twain shall meet.

"Also, perhaps they don't exist anymore, maybe the Time War sealed them up."

The new series seems very sprightly for a programme set after the heat death of the universe.

How does he get to her?

The CVE's are randomly located.

They USED to be randomly located. (Though Sexy found one easily enough - don't tell me she just 'accidentally' happened to fall through a CVE in the immensity of all space and time. Though god knows what she was playing at - she can't have been THAT desperate to pick up Adric...maybe she was trying to save Romana from having to return to Gallifrey as the Doc had made it clear HE wasn't going to lift a finger?)

But in Logopolis wasn't the entire point to create a permanently-open CVE whose location the Doctor was presumably well aware of? (Of course, I could be getting totally the wrong end of the stick here, I don't pretend to understand a word of Logopolis.) Or even if he WASN'T aware of it, surely it wouldn't be beyond his capabilities to build a CVE-spotting gadget and (as aforementioned Adders did in a few minutes) plot a return course safely through it? Come to think of it, Sexy was REALLY desperate for her Thief to settle down with a Her Indoors - wouldn't SHE have arranged another CVE-related 'accident' to reunite him with Romana rather than go to all the trouble of messing with Amy n'Rory's sex lives to grow one from scratch...IF Romana was still in E-Space?

If that is the case, the Doctor is in N-Space, Romana is in E-Space and never the twain shall meet.

Well, it certainly ISN'T the case. And even if it was, ROMANA knows where the Gateway is, has access to time sensitives and is building her own TARDIS - SHE could find her way easily enough back to N-Space, surely?

"Also, perhaps they don't exist anymore, maybe the Time War sealed them up."

The new series seems very sprightly for a programme set after the heat death of the universe.

Hear, hear.

Heat death averted buy a bunch of old sods sitting around mumbling numbers.


Sung to the song of Molly Malone.

A-lame, a-lame-o.
A-lame, a-lame-o.
That moron Bimead is aslame, alame-o.
A-lame, a-lame-o.
A-lame, a-lame-o.
That moron Bimead is aslame, alame-o.

I was in a bit of a rush when I wrote my little anti-Bidmead ditty. Here is a new version:


Sung to the song of Molly Malone.

A-lame, a-lame-o.
A-lame, a-lame-o.
That moron, Bidmead, is a-lame, a-lame-o.
A-lame, a-lame-o.
A-lame, a-lame-o.
That moron, Bidmead, is a-lame, a-lame-o.

He speaks very highly of you.

I assume, Kate, this is another attempt at humour. Bidmead wouldn't know me from anywhere.

I'm sorry, but the way he looked down his nose at Season Seventeen, and then bringing in his own silly concepts. As I said, a bunch of guys mumbling numbers keeping the universe going? Talk about bad science.

Besides, I'm not the only one that feels this way. From what I've read in his Rodcasts of Season Eighteen, Rodney has very little use for Bidmead too.


K9--One version in E-Space, another with Sarah Jane. The original made it back to Earth somehow. - When did the original make it back to Earth?

As I said, Emily, I'm including all the Doctor Who spin-offs, including the K9 one. From what I understand, that K9 is the original one (maybe Rodney can clear this up, he watched it).

I watched it too! Why don't I get any credit for my suffering!

God, it never even OCCURRED to me that you'd be including THAT ridiculous piece of uncanonicity when you were so ruthless with the books and audios...but of course you're right, judging by the way he *shudders* regenerates, that WAS the K9 Mark I who spent some time on Gallifrey (and no doubt nicked its technology a la Mawdryn).

Sorry, Emily, I didn't realize you'd seen it. I just mentioned Rodney because of the Muttcasts he did of it.

(Though Sexy found one easily enough - don't tell me she just 'accidentally' happened to fall through a CVE in the immensity of all space and time. Though god knows what she was playing at

Maybe she sensed the potential future where the Great Vampire emerged from E-space leading an army of vampires, and decided to nip it in the bud.

If she knows what her control room will look like in her future, as the Doctor's Wife claimed, it seems plausible enough she can sense the coming of a vampire army.

Admittedly, she doesn't often give the Doctor the chance to stop the enemy before they can acquire an army - dropping him on Earth one hour before the vampire armada attacks is more her style - but she might just have been in a good mood that day.

It would have to be the TARDIS. Well, it is sentient, after all.

So. Favourite Companion of the Matt Smith Era?

I'm voting Handles.

(American Top 40 DJ voice) ...and next up on the Hit Parade, the hot new song I'm Head Over Heels In Love With Handles by new singing sensation Emily Carter!

*Embarrassed look* I am, I am...it's not RIGHT that I should care more about the death of a CYBER-HEAD than of THE DOCTOR HIMSELF, but...that's just the way it IS, there's no point denying it...

Sorry. Handles is nowhere near as hot as Clara.

Clara's a Dalek!

At least, she WAS in her first and, frankly, BEST appearance.

Fancying a Cyber-Head not looking so bad NOW, eh...?

Rodney wants to see an episode like Terminus?

Not really. But if she offered I wouldn't say no...

I wonder if the Master would have the hots for Clara?
Naah... he fancies the Doctor, we all know that!

I wonder if Madame Vastra, Jenny, and Strax should get some threads here.

I was just wondering the same thing. Though more along the lines of a Paternoster Gang entry for all three of 'em, the way several UNIT nutters get bunched together under one Companions heading.

Works for me. I love these characters. Madame and Jenny show how Silirians and humans can co-exist, and good old Strax gets the best lines.

I thank the Moff for creating these great characters.

Hmmm, the date on the thread doesn't match the final post, something has been moved. Was it the info on the new Companion?

Yes! Surely I can't be overthrown and fed to the horda on account of responding to New Companion info by creating a New Companion thread and moving said info there...?

Naw, it's okay this time, Emily.

I know I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I'd really like to express my displeasure over how companions are handled in New Who. Every time, unless it's Martha, there's a sub-plot of "You're the most important companion I've eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever haaaaaaaaaaaaaad =O.........." sprinkled throughout. It comes up at some point or another, and I wish they could just be more like Jack was; only made important because he met the Doctor. Or just characters that come in for half a season, I don't care. Season arcs more and more revolve around companions with the Doctor facilitating. Can't they all just be friends doing crazy and zany things through time and space!?

I was absolutely fine with it when it came to Rose and Donna because they so obviously WERE the most marvellous people in the universe.

But I'll admit the Eleventh Doctor's obsession with Amy became very slightly tiring. Alright, so she was the first face this face saw, but the same (probably) applies with Four and the Brigadier, and I didn't notice TOM fixating on our Brig like a baby chicken. And it was HIS WIFE'S face that Eleven SHOULD have started hallucinating on his deathbed, thank you very much.

STILL a vast improvement on Old Who's habit of disposable, indistinguishable, no-one-gives-a-toss-whether-they're-in-the-TARDIS-or-jump-out-the-nearest-airlock Companions, though.

Deep Breath:

'The Not-Me one, the Asking-Questions one' - AT LAST we have the pure, unvarnished, vision of how the Doctor sees his ape-pets when he's not being tactful.

They really are all completely interchangeable, aren't they. This makes me feel SO MUCH BETTER about Himself spending forty years cold-shouldering ME.

Even before he decides Clara's a regenerated Handles who's really let herself go.

'I brought you along by accident. That's mostly how I meet girls' the Doctor assures the dinosaur. I BLOODY LOVE HIM.

doctorwhonews.net reported that The Radio Times printed something called 10 Greatest Companions, as compiled by fan votes.
Has anyone here seen it, and can you tell us the results?

There's more about it here:

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-09-10/rose-tyler-triumphs-in-doctor-who-companion-champion

The magazine is available as a download rather than a print edition.

I see the Radio Times sees fit to celebrate Rose Tyler's victory as Best Companion Ever with a photo that isn't actually of Rose Tyler.

WAR DOCTOR: I guess you aren't the man i thought you were, Clara Oswald
CLARA: Oh really? Can you have a baby?
WAR DOCTOR: No, just grow a beard. Which i can shave off. You cannot do that with a baby.

Sarah Jane lost to Jack Harkness? As much as I like the good captain, I wouldn't have called that one.

To me, this competition is too present day series-concentrated. Look at all of the companions that aren't a part of the
contest; Zoe, Steven, Victoria, Mel, Harry, Dodo, Ben, Polly, Liz, and Benton. I know, I know-- I wouldn't want to see Mel or Dodo in the competition, either, but they were actively travelling with the Doctor, episode after episode, unlike some present-day people on this list. Jackie, Wilf, Vastra, Strax, and Jenny really don't belong there (and Mickey barely does), as they, for the most part, didn't go on the Doctor's travels with him-- they were Earth-bound, unlike the majority of the names I
mentioned.

Altering the list would also change the standings, but probably not the final results, as I agree that Rose is one of the best
companions. But Tegan shouldn't lose to Jenny, there wouldn't be a Wilf vs Jackie challenge, Ian would be against someone other than Strax (and he shouldn't have lost to the Sontaran!), and Clara would face someone other than Vastra.

Have any of you seen this new TV show? It’s set in the UK, and it’s about the romantic adventures of Clara, a young teacher who’s sassy and flirty, and the guy she fancies, Danny, who’s all frowny and pouty, and who is also a teacher, of MATHS (that’s very important), at the same school.
It’s so funny! ‘Cos she likes him and he likes her and they go out on dates! And there’s so much drama! ‘Cos she likes him and he likes her and they go out on dates! And Clara’s all sassy and flirty and looks at Danny with big eyes, and Danny’s all frowny and pouty and looks at Clara with-puppy-dog-eyes! And it’s sooo sad, because Danny used to be a soldier, and it made him sad, and people are mean to him about it which isn’t fair because he didn’t have a choice (they still have conscription in England, right?) and when people are mean to him he looks so sad, and sometimes a single tear will roll down his cheek, that’s how sad he is. And it’s so not fair, ‘cos he gives up his free time to train kids how to be like little soldiers and he is really just a little boy inside and still people are mean to him.
Oh, and there’s another character called The Doctor. But he’s not important.

Doe anyone have Moffat's email, so we can send him this?

I wonder how those in fandom can both praise Rose Tyler-types as the "sacred proletariat" and yet deride them as "chavs" when it suits them?

It's probably not the same set of fans who does the praising and the deriding.

People seriously went round calling 'em 'sacred proletariat'?!

I mean, I worship the ground the extended Tyler Family tread on (*nostalgic sigh* SUCH an integral part of our Golden Age!) but even I wouldn't use a phrase like THAT.

Have any of the Companions fought in either of the World Wars?

Not unless you count messing around on a fake WWI battlefield (Jamie and Zoe), locking Hitler in a cupboard (Rory), being a Great War nursing assistant (Molly from the audios), or going undercover in the Nazi-occupied Channel Islands (Benny from the novels).

All the males were just a bit young for WWII...though BARELY too young going by Wilf's revolver and Palestinian experience. Unless, of course, the UNIT years were set a bit earlier than we think and the Brig's older than he looks?

Oh, OF COURSE! Captain Jack was in the airforce during World War II. Also lived through it another two or three times, no doubt doing heroic fighting stuff whilst seducing his way through the ranks.

You forgot running around trying to help save her infant mother (Ace in Curse of Fenric).

Assuming the character and the actor shared their age, even the Brigadier would have been too young (Nick Courtney was 16 in 1945) - I guess he could have potentially signed up under age, but getting to the front lines in time would be very unlikely.

The Brig could have served in Suez though, and possibly also Korea.

You forgot running around trying to help save her infant mother (Ace in Curse of Fenric).

Of course I did - unforgivable as Ace also messes around with World War Two in the NA Timewyrm: Exodus AND the PDA Illegal Alien AND the audio Colditz.

And even in the 1960s she manages to bump into some neo-Nazis - come to think of it, what's that girl's PROBLEM?

Kinda says it all, doesn't it?

But Rose IS special to the Doctor!

Alright, not to Docs 1-8, of course, and by 11 he's literally shrieking in horror at the sight of her, but did The Moment choose to look like TEGAN? Of course not.

How do the Companioned keep themselves "fed and watered" to quote the Daleks?
Their lives on the TARDIS are pretty much constant danger - if they drink Coca-Cola or even water, they'll be running from the monsters and have an urgent need to go to the loo!

There was a scene in Interference where Sarah needed to go to the loo - it was a sign that something was seriously wrong with the whole situation because since she'd become a Companion she hadn't really needed to DO such things. (The Doctor gave her a vaccination pill - the least he should be doing for his Companions after The Ark fiasco - and it may have been one of the side-effects.)

Of course, New Who completely undermined this by having Captain Jack say 'What a time to take a leak' when Rose diappeared.

It's possible Jamie and Victoria had carnal relations in the TARDIS - could there be a Scottish-Victorian English version of River Song out there?

It's possible Jamie and Victoria had carnal relations in the TARDIS

I'd love to shriek LIBEL!! at this point, but I have to admit, Victoria was probably a lot less inhibited than she seemed. She was into miniskirts in about ten seconds flat.

She also didn't seem remotely religious which, come to think of it, is downright bizarre for a Victorian.

could there be a Scottish-Victorian English version of River Song out there?

Not according to Downtime's 'She's a bitter childless spinster' version of Victoria. Of course, what does Downtime (book OR video) know about anything?

Er, except for accurately predicting Kate Lethbridge-Stewart, against all the odds...

if they drink Coca-Cola or even water

Forgot to mention that Captain Jack is the only Companion who'd DREAM of drinking a hegemonic cola...

'The single most important thing - although it can slip from sight at times - about Doctor Who in an given series, is the relationship between the Doctor and his friend...When it hasn't been the most important thing, then the show hasn't done as well.' - Moffat in DWM. How sweet. Not sure it's TRUE, mind you...

RTG on naming Rose: 'I was a little worried by the fact that Doctor Who's female companions had men's names for years. Benny. Charley. Even Ace is a bit gender-neutral, and Izzy too. Roz too, for me, cos that's the name of my brother-in-law. So I wanted a name that was absolutely 100% female' - blimey. The non-canonical stuff does make itself felt in the oddest of ways...

Roz too, for me, cos that's the name of my brother-in-law.

Wouldn't his brother in law be more likely Ross?

That's a point. No doubt DWM just transcribed his oral Pearls Of Wisdom incorrectly.

Yeah. Because RTG's brother-in-law can only have an English-sounding name. \sarcasm

I'm sorry if i've messed up.

I thought RTG chose that name because he uses 'Rose Tyler' in just about everything else he writes.

It DID cros my mind that 'Rose' and 'Tyler' seem to be to Him what 'Tarrant' was to Terry Nation...

The BBC has copyright to the Eighth Doctor, but FOX and Universal have co-copyright on Grace Holloway and Chang Lee, and it's cost prohibitive to use them.

Because fans are just clamouring for more Grace and Chang Lee.

To be honest, once I heard Carolyn from Vampire Science was a hastily-rewritten-for-copyright-reasons Grace, I did rather regret that we couldn't just have had Grace despite the fact that Carolyn is the far superior character (and not just cos she omitted to murder OR snog my Doctor). Such is the perversity of one's fannish feelings.

Even I draw the line at regretting Chang Lee's absence from our lives for ONE MICROSECOND, however.

His voice keeps popping up in the audios, which is MORE than enough, thank you.

The Brig could have served in Suez though, and possibly also Korea.

Also could have served in Cyprus. Could have got up to some dirty colonial war things there ala Francis Urquhart.

I predict the Doctor will meet the next companion for the first time and she's already met him. Or she'll die then come back to life. Or both.

Don't forget he'll also accidentally groom her as a child.

'Martha' and 'Donna' are both the same name but in different languages. They mean 'lady/mistress' in Aramaic and Italian respectively.

Good grief. I'll add them to the Jack/Jackie, Liz/Bessie, Vicki/Victoria, Mike/Mickey, Sarah/Sara, Dodo/Ace list...

Who in the dead gods of Krypton is "Bessie"!?

Bessie the third Doctor's car?

The car, sorry, sprightly yellow roadster, of course! One of the most beloved of all Companions, Pertwee literally spent half his life lying underneath her....

Oh, THAT Bessie

The departures of Companions, as a whole, tended to be sudden, out of the blue, and not bear thinking about.

I think that on balance, Nicola Bryant and Bonnie Langford were both treated shabbily, as actresses personally, and in terms of the characters they portrayed.

Why do the companions always do the wrong thing? "Stay in the TARIS!" they don't, "Don't touch that." they do. I know it does make for a more interesting story, but why does the Doctor still hang around with humans? Plus with Bill can she talk for all the people on Earth?

Why do the companions always do the wrong thing? "Stay in the TARIS!" they don't, "Don't touch that." they do.

I don't think they ARE doing the wrong thing. The Doctor probably knows they're gonna disobey him and factors it into his equations ('Ace, can you give me some of that Nitro-9 you haven't got?').

why does the Doctor still hang around with humans?

Probably for the same reason every alien in the universe finds us irresistible.

Admittedly we don't yet know what that reason IS.

Plus with Bill can she talk for all the people on Earth?

It made a lot more sense than those generals trying to do so. She IS the President of Earth's personal representative, after all. And it's not the first time a Companion's had to step up to speak for humanity (Rose in Christmas Invasion, Amy in Cold Blood).

And it's not the first time a Companion's had to step up to speak for humanity (Rose in Christmas Invasion, Amy in Cold Blood).

Clara in Kill the Moon

Oh gods, DON'T REMIND ME.

Well, at least Clara had the decency to ask humanity to take a vote.

(And then she ignored it, but, you know, some votes are just BEGGING to be ignored.)

So I guess they'll turn the tables and have a perky, young, attractive, bare-chested male companion shrieking, "Help me, Doctor, help!", just to even things with the new Doctor.

And here I was, about to comment that while we've always expected another guy to be the next Doctor, we always took it for granted that the next companion would be female. They rarely invent something new to travel with the Doctor.

we always took it for granted that the next companion would be female

I never have. In the Bad Old Days when the Doctor was always male I really wanted a recreation of the old Two/Jamie dynamic - without any superfluous Zoes/Victorias about the place to spoil the bromance, and hopefully without the homophobic undertones (see: the Doctor and Jamie violently flinging each other's hands away when they accidentally and adorably HOLD HANDS in Tomb like a Doctor and Companion should).

Equally, now we've got a female Doctor I'd be really happy for a new all-girl* TARDIS team. I'd say 'Come back Bill!' only one old dynamic we can REALLY REALLY live without is the Companion in love/lust with the Doctor, so perhaps not. Look, if they've gotta play it safe by having an attractive young male I can live with it, but I DEMAND at least one twisted ankle.

*Usually, of course, referring to grown women as GIRLS is a typical piece of chauvinism but Capaldi was JUST SO SWEET in the 'is the future going to be all-girl?' 'We can only hope' exchange that I'm mellowing, well, at least for today.

Me - ..."we always took it for granted that the next companion would be female"
Emily - "I never have."

Really? The ladies out number the guys (for the original series) 17 to 7. And there were years worth of gaps between the guys in the 70's and 80's.

Ian - 1963 to 1965.
Steven - 1965 - 1966
Ben - 1966 - 1967
Jamie - 1966 - 1969
Harry Sullivan - 1973 - 1974
Adric - 1980 - 1984
Turlough - 1983 - 1984

Yes, but I never took it for granted that the Companion should be female any more than I did that the Doctor should be male. And New Who has usually had a male Companion about the place, albeit as a very third wheel.

Yes, but NuWho male companions make it their business to be a third wheel...

The dates for Harry and Adric are wrong (unless the latter really did hang around for half a decade and we've all just successfully blanked it out).

Harry's also a product of a time when the Doctor was surrounded by semi-regular male characters who might or might not be classed as companions.

It's really only in the mid-1970s that the idea of the Doctor and a single female companion takes hold (what fan writer Thomas Noonan used to call the "Hinchcliffe cycle", though it's more to do with the increasing flexibility of the production schedule compared to a decade earlier than anything planned). The new series has tended to go with an early 1970s model of various hangers-on plus a single female companion who is nonetheless primus inter pares.

Yes, you're right about Adric. He's 1980 to 1982, but his appearance in 'Caves of Androzani' is listed at imdb.com as March 1984.
And Harry Sullivan was 1974 to 1975 (the first episode of 'Robot' airing on December 28)

If Adric's one-line appearance in 'The Caves of Androzani' counts, then Jamie's dates are 1966-1985, which amounts to about 75% of the original series' run...

Ah, but that's DIFFERENT. Jamie was done, dusted, forgotten the moment Troughton turned into Pertwee. Whereas the entire Davison era was permeated with Adric-ness, first his smelly* presence in the TARDIS and then, of course, the endless pall of grief and guilt that hung heavy over the Fifth Doctor until his dying moments...

...Ha ha ha! Just kidding.

*Well, according to the PDA Divided Loyalties, anyway.

The people at imdb.com obviously don't watch the series, since they, for example, list Frazier Hines as having appeared in 117 episodes, but the years on the series are listed as 1966 to 1985!
The same with Elisabeth Sladen; 83 episodes, 1973 to 1984!
It really should list Frazier as 1966-1969, also 1983, 1985 and Elisabeth as 1973 to 1976; also 1984.

You realise the Doc hasn't had a PROPER Companion, you know, one who entered the TARDIS AND STAYED IN THERE since Donna left NINE YEARS AGO?

I'm assuming JODIE! will resurrect the fine old custom of NOT being at the beck and call of some upperty human who somehow thinks it's got the right to live in one of those boring house things and give her a call every time they fancy a holiday/can't be bothered to hire a removal van/decide to chuck all Sexy's keys into a volcano?

When does Vince get his thread here??

Just kidding, Emily

Would a child companion work?
leaving out the work hours, night shoot, on-set teachers and guardians restrictions that make having a full-time Sky Smith or Amelia Pond impossible.

Well OF COURSE leaving all those nonsenses aside (honestly, what's wrong with making the little buggers do an honest day's work up chimneys and down coal-mines, that's what I say) OF COURSE Amelia Pond would have been the best imaginable Companion.

I'd like to see it (and I'm not a big fan of the things--did my part to curtail overpopulation* and all that), but I'd hate to see them only do it now that the Doctor is played by a female.

Different topic, but I'm seriously worried they're going to try this, with The Doctor yet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rhH_QGXtgQ


* still get stuck with childproof medicine though.

did my part to curtail overpopulation* and all that

We should get a medal for our Noble Self-Sacrifice!

(Alright, so...it wasn't actually a sacrifice, but that's not the POINT.)

I'd hate to see them only do it now that the Doctor is played by a female.

Ah, excellent point, save the kiddie-Companion for when the Doc regenerates back into a man.

IF she ever regenerates back into a man.

Different topic, but I'm seriously worried they're going to try this, with The Doctor yet

They're not gonna DARE get the Doctor pregnant, there's just NO WAY.

Interesting that the Amy/River storyline didn't get a look-in. Not traumatic/mystical enough?

still get stuck with childproof medicine though

Infuriating, isn't it?

Likelihood of me being unable to open stupid childproof cap on pills/bleach/whatever: c.95%

Likelihood of me allowing a child into my home and it gulping down poisonous amounts of pills/bleach if I was blessed with a cap that actually OPENED: c.1%.

This is a risk I am VERY READY TO TAKE.

Come one, child proof caps are child's play to open, pun intended.

It's not the caps. It's the ones that come in blister packs. If they're childproof, I can't just pop them out; I have to sit there and peel the cardboard layer. And if you want to say that's still not so bad, the biggest problem is that sometimes they come in the pop-able form and sometimes in the bratproof form and they get mixed together and I never know which one I've got.

And I don't care what form it comes in, there should be a law against childproof migraine medicine.

Come one, child proof caps are child's play to open

No doubt for those of you with manly hairy hands...

there should be a law against childproof migraine medicine

Now now, OBVIOUSLY the rights of IMAGINARY children trump your petty right not to be in excruciating agony...

TV Tropes has some interesting evidence that Nyssa and Tegan might have been more than just friends:

The TARDIS is infinite, and yet Nyssa and Tegan share a very cozy room and not only never question this arrangement, they seem to be pleased as punch about the whole thing. For context, the only other people who have shared a room in the show's history are canon couples Ian and Barbara (confirmed to have finally gotten married in the SJA) and Amy and Rory.

Nyssa and Tegan hit it off quite well from the very beginning, with Tegan being the more likely to stand up to pushy individuals and Nyssa acting as the voice of reason. This includes their original meeting, where Tegan goes from visibly upset to happy upon seeing Nyssa, at that point a complete stranger.

Nyssa's gentle fretting and care for Tegan in "Snakedance" edges a great deal past mere friendly concern.

Nyssa is deeply upset when the Doctor leaves Tegan behind without warning in "Time-Flight", insisting they shouldn't have just left her.

In "Arc of Infinity" Nyssa's priorities pull a 180 from worrying about the Doctor to wanting to hear every detail about Tegan the moment they hear from her. She's very quick to pull Tegan firmly back onto the team when she turns up again, and nearly throws a fit when the Doctor is about to venture into the Matrix to find Omega's location from Tegan, on the grounds that she might be killed. The next time she sees the Doctor, she won't even look at him until he tells her Tegan is all right.

"Black Orchid" has this in spades. Tegan cheerfully demonstrates the Charleston for Nyssa. Tegan can tell Ann and Nyssa apart and is insufferably smug about this. (Context: In a discussion between Ann and Nyssa we learn that the only visible difference is a mole on Ann's chest, which isn't visible even in a relatively low-cut butterfly dress.) Upon the reveal of their twin act:
Muir: I might have known they were up to something. Now no one can tell them apart.
Tegan: I can.
Muir: How?
Tegan: [smirk] That's a secret.

"Mawdryn Undead" is basically Nyssa and Tegan being married while trying to keep an eye on a bumbling, overgrown alien schoolboy (and Turlough). When not-actually-the-Doctor tries to order Nyssa to dematerialize without Tegan (again), she only argues for a minute... and then walks defiantly out of the TARDIS. The scene where Tegan goes for help is difficult to read as anything but a worried couple hovering over their injured kid and not knowing what to do, with Nyssa's fretting as she tells Tegan to be careful and to take the TARDIS communicator. For that matter, Tegan's very real fear when she realizes she just left her best friend alone with a stranger who probably isn't the Doctor, upon which she runs back to the TARDIS. The sheer relief in her voice when she finds Nyssa safe and waiting for them...

While the rest is agonizingly painful, "Terminus" has its moments. Nyssa once again demonstrates her priorities:
Doctor: It'll be good to see the TARDIS again.
Nyssa: And Tegan!

Despite knowing the Doctor longer and having spent more time with him — all those adventures while Tegan was on Earth — Nyssa is able to remain calm and collected while saying goodbye to him, asking him politely not to be upset and to let her leave in good faith, to part as friends. Then she has to say goodbye to Tegan and breaks down sobbing into her chest.

Tegan's horrified head-shaking in the background when Nyssa tries to tell her that she's chosen to stay on Terminus, and her desperation when she asks the Doctor not to let Nyssa stay on Terminus to die, and her growing realization that Nyssa's really not coming with them. By the time Nyssa asks them to stop trying to convince her so they can part as friends, loud angry defiant Tegan Jovanka can barely manage to whisper "...Please, Nyssa...?" And of course, their tearful goodbye.
Tegan: She'll die here.
Nyssa: [voice breaking] Not easily, Tegan. Like you, I'm indestructible.

In the Big Finish adventure "Cradle of the Snake":

Within the first seven minutes, Tegan (admittedly Tegan possessed, but still) has Nyssa pinned against the wall purring about how much they'll enjoy themselves if Nyssa stays. Several times it's mentioned that the influence of the Mara works by forcing people's dark sides and subconscious desires to the surface.

Throughout the audio and for no reason whatsoever except for its long stay in Tegan's subconscious, the Mara has a sexually-charged obsession with Nyssa. It sneers about her purity and calls her "little nun", implying that her rejection of its advances actually offended it, and while possessed not only can none of the Mara's minions take their eyes off Nyssa, but the Mara's influence on her involves her dressing scantily and in black.

Nyssa opens the audio by gently shooing Turlough and the Doctor away so she can take care of Tegan on her own. Tegan—who'd locked herself in their room and had refused to open the door for what appeared to be a long period of cajoling by the Doctor—instantly lets Nyssa in when she's asked. One of the first things Nyssa says is that Tegan's been sleeping badly and having nightmares again, to which Tegan's reply is a tired "Sorry to keep you awake." (Admittedly they do share a room, but if they slept on opposite sides of the room it's very unlikely that Nyssa would be woken up by Tegan's restless sleep unless she actually woke up screaming, which doesn't appear to be the case, so it's logical to conclude they're sharing a bed.)

Even while under the influence of the Mara after it gives the explicit order that Tegan and Turlough are to be killed on sight, Nyssa goes out of her way to hide Tegan and keep her out of the way of the other members of the Mara's council, to keep her safe. She even consoles Tegan—sort of—about the fact that the Mara rejected the idea of possessing her again, explaining that some people just aren't born to power, and then makes her a very interesting deal...

"But I tell you what. If you work hard, I'll let you be my... personal assistant. Would you like that?" (Yes, that pause is in the actual audio.)


Make of that what you will

The TARDIS is infinite, and yet Nyssa and Tegan share a very cozy room and not only never question this arrangement, they seem to be pleased as punch about the whole thing. For context, the only other people who have shared a room in the show's history are canon couples Ian and Barbara (confirmed to have finally gotten married in the SJA) and Amy and Rory.

Wouldn't - like Amy and Rory - they have demanded their single beds be replaced by a double?

Tegan goes from visibly upset to happy upon seeing Nyssa, at that point a complete stranger.

Wasn't she on a planet entirely consisting of men at the time? OF COURSE she'd be happy to see a woman, any woman...

Nyssa's gentle fretting and care for Tegan in "Snakedance" edges a great deal past mere friendly concern.

Companions put their lives on the line for each other every day. Of course they frequently get obsessively close.

And who wouldn't be fretting like hell at the thought of a reprise from THAT snake at the end of Kinda?

Nyssa is deeply upset when the Doctor leaves Tegan behind without warning in "Time-Flight", insisting they shouldn't have just left her.

Oh? When?

"Mawdryn Undead" is basically Nyssa and Tegan being married while trying to keep an eye on a bumbling, overgrown alien schoolboy (and Turlough).

Not convinced. But what a great line.

Nyssa once again demonstrates her priorities:
Doctor: It'll be good to see the TARDIS again.
Nyssa: And Tegan!

That wasn't proof that Nyssa cared more about Tegan than the TARDIS, just proof that the Doctor cared more about the TARDIS than Tegan...

Tegan's horrified head-shaking in the background when Nyssa tries to tell her that she's chosen to stay on Terminus, and her desperation when she asks the Doctor not to let Nyssa stay on Terminus to die, and her growing realization that Nyssa's really not coming with them. By the time Nyssa asks them to stop trying to convince her so they can part as friends, loud angry defiant Tegan Jovanka can barely manage to whisper "...Please, Nyssa...?" And of course, their tearful goodbye.

Yes, all very convincing, except that this is TEGAN, if she was being abruptly and permanently dumped by a lover without warning, there'd be a lot more shouting.

Several times it's mentioned that the influence of the Mara works by forcing people's dark sides and subconscious desires to the surface.

If Tegan and Nyssa WERE lovers at the time, it would hardly be subconscious desires.

the Mara has a sexually-charged obsession with Nyssa. It sneers about her purity and calls her "little nun"

Again, rather implying she and Tegan haven't exactly been at it like bunny-rabbits.

Great idea, though, and...possible. Definitely possible. I certainly prefer it to the Five/Tegan theories.

Yeah, but I've noticed that shippers confuse "friendship" with "desire to bone", and pointing out that there is no sexual attraction brings claims of "repressed desires".

Tee hee.

Well, it is just conjecture, after all.

If it stayed in the conjecture/interesting idea/"wouldn't it be funny if" realm that would be fine.

Unfortunately it usually starts as conjecture, mutates to become a fan theory, then people start arguing that it's what TPTB were trying to get across the whole time.

Madness, utter madness.

I wouldn't call it madness. Take, for example, Rona Munroe's recent announcement that there was TOTALLY a lesbian subtext to Survival that all the gays instantly spotted and the rest of us didn't...

Ange was obviously deeply in love with Ace, then realised she was just after her rare 'Land of the Giants Annual'.

Her WHAT?

Do not question The Halprin!

Land Of The Giants:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_the_Giants

I wouldn't call it madness. Take, for example, Rona Munroe's recent announcement that there was TOTALLY a lesbian subtext to Survival that all the gays instantly spotted and the rest of us didn't...

Wasn't she the writer of the episode? Therefore she qualifies as one of The Powers That Be (TPTB).

When a producer, writer, director, actor admits that they snuck something in that some people spotted then that's a confirmation that there was something subtextual to be spotted.

I wasn't complaining about that. (I could, but it's just not worth it. ;-)

I'm annoyed by the obsessive shippers who try to shove their preferred couple (or trio, or orgy) down other people's throats for less than convincing reasons, "Look how well they get along! Only people in love get along that well!", "Look at the passion when they fight with each other! Clearly they are repressing their true feelings!", "Look! They're in the same room together!!!!"

When a producer, writer, director, actor admits that they snuck something in that some people spotted then that's a confirmation that there was something subtextual to be spotted.

I wasn't complaining about that. (I could, but it's just not worth it. ;-)

Oh, go on...you know you want to...;)

I'm annoyed by the obsessive shippers who try to shove their preferred couple (or trio, or orgy) down other people's throats for less than convincing reasons, "Look how well they get along! Only people in love get along that well!", "Look at the passion when they fight with each other! Clearly they are repressing their true feelings!", "Look! They're in the same room together!!!!"

Whereas I find fresh light cast on various characters to be rather entertaining, even when I don't agree with it.

I mean, it's not like we've got anything BETTER to do until Autumn...

Well, I could go either way with Nyssa and Tegan. The clues I provided could suggest a relationship that was more than just friendship, or perhaps not.

It's all left up to interpretation.

Katy Manning acts better than Sarah ("but DOC-tor!") Sutton and Lalla ("K-NI-HI-NEE!") Ward.

Lalla WHAT Ward?

I never had any idea whether or not Katy was any good at this 'acting' thing - rather like the Fourth Doctor, you suspected there was no actual acting involved in her portrayal of Jo - but her audio Iris Wildthyme proved that HELL yes she can act.

it's how Lalla whines "K9".

She doesn't whine!

She just displays a touching concern for the mutt, considerably more than any Old Who Doc displays for any of HIS Companions.

Well, the Third Doc was moved when Jo left him.

True, and of course Hartnell actually managed to show emotion about the loss of his first THREE Companions before realising that just wasn't the done thing, at least not for the next forty years or so...

Still, Pertwee never bothered going back for that slice of wedding cake, Hartnell never bothered going back to check the granddaughter he'd abandoned against her will with an alien on a Dalek-devastated planet was OK, and neither of him could be arsed to look up Ian n'Babs for a pint during YEARS stranded on Earth with nothing better to do...

Hartnell never bothered going back to check the granddaughter he'd abandoned against her will with an alien on a Dalek-devastated planet was OK

Still, he must have felt a pang of something through all those regenerations because Capaldi doc did have her picture on his desk at Bristol's St Luke's University.

Yeah, so he clearly did think of Susan from time to time.

Yeah, and I'm sure Susan would have found that a GREAT CONSOLATION as she hobbled round the radioactive ruins in one shoe...if only she'd known...

Actually I think Moffat said something in DWM about the Doctor trying to settle down and pretend to be human, ergo, he had to have photos of his family on his desk, that's just what humans DO.

Since River Song is considered a "psychopath", are we ready for a Jeffrey Dahmer-type serial killer companion?

TARDIS Eruditorum:

'The transience of all companions when compared with the permanence of the Doctor means that the Doctor/companion relationship is always asymmetrical. No companion can ever be unique and irreplaceable...because the structure of the story dictates that they all must be replaced...the companions are all interchangeable, simply because they must be interchanged. On the other hand, drama requires that they be essential and not extraneous to proceedings...No companion quite makes sense outside of the limited context in which they exist on the show. They are optical illusions, tricks relying on forced perspective...This, more than a fascination with mawkish and depressing sentimentality, is why all companion-return stories....are so bleak. Because these characters cannot and have never been able to sustain anything beyond the window of their lives that we see' - well, Sarah Jane managed JUST FINE thank you very much. Though I suppose it DID take her thirty years to pull herself together. And the thought of the Brig at that maths school still hurts. And poor Captain Jack was just so miserable at Torchwood...Um, look, Mickey did rather well for himself, aside from his bizarre choice of wife, and so did Jackie...of course, thy didn't travel in the TARDIS properly so oh hell, I'm just proving his point aren't I...

Since River Song is considered a "psychopath", are we ready for a Jeffrey Dahmer-type serial killer companion?

No, we're not.

New Zealand companion: Doctor, I want some fush and chups

Doctor: I'm sorry?

NZ companion: Fush and chups! Fush and chups!

The TARDIS would probably translate that.

Quebec companion: Any more of that nonsense, Master and we WILL separate!

So Ryan and Graham will be gone by the end of the 2020 special, leaving just JODIE! and...sigh...ugh...yaz.

My suggestion for season 13 is to have just one companion and TWO Doctors (side by side) for the whole season! That would be an interesting change!

Can the Doctor actually stand being with the Doctor for more than a few hours?

Can the Doctor actually stand being with the Doctor for more than a few hours?

ARNOLD RIMMER DOCTOR: Oh, grow up, Mr. Gazpacho!!

I, for one, would be interested in seeing a story with just the Doctor and Yaz! Sad to hear Bradley is going - I like Graham, but I can see how Brad's busy schedule can be a problem.

(cue Emily suggesting that anything conflicting with a Doctor Who filming schedule should be abandoned, forthwith! )

I never bought the idea of the Doctor being romantically interested in his human companions (who would've been like small children to him). More RTMoffChib stuff for McCree to spit nails.

Can the Doctor actually stand being with the Doctor for more than a few hours?

Well, as Natalie pointed out, Arnold Rimmer brought the idea of not getting along with yourself to a new meaning.

Nyssa & Tegan = Laverne & Shirley:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Die3um_WG00&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1-lgYMLr5Z0dvnpKQp6JCbOxsvm2u9YT0vSvxBq4HPY2KEhI7-eL-OT8Y

Mother-daughter outing:
https://tinyurl.com/y8vup2ww

His Dark Materials season 2 opener The City of Magpies marked the series debut by Sophie Okonedo as the voice of Xaphania.

Clara is Sixie and travelling with Me:
https://imgur.com/a/oMGot50

Why do people DO such things?

WHY?

I actually quite like that.

No you don't.

You just think it looks slightly less godawful than when Colin's inside it, which is true enough.

Karen and Jenna:
https://imgur.com/a/0LmlVv5

Nice

Jo and Bill:
https://imgur.com/a/hYmmure

Awwwwww!

TARDIS Angels: (description from the facebook page Doctor All Things Who)
https://imgur.com/a/EWX496w

Angels? They're not ANGELS! The lack of stone and fangs is a dead give-away...

LOL!

Billie, Karen, TARDIS and sonic screwdriver:
https://imgur.com/a/VnIWic1

OK, for some reason that was as weird as seeing that photo in Day of Mike Yates and Sara Kingdom...

Weirder still, is that (in that picture) Billie looks taller than Karren! That can't be right?

Billy Piper is 1.65 m (5 feet 5 inches) tall.

Karen Gillan is 1.8 m (5 feet 11 inches) tall.

So... no it's not.

I've seen them both in person. Unfortunately, not at the same time so I couldn't compare.

Met a few actors at conventions myself, back in the 90's.

10,11, their daughter and companions:
https://imgur.com/a/7qQgOIT

No even an acknowledgement of the TARDIS? Tsk tsk.

How "realistic"\"accurate" do you think the "tomorrow people"🙃 companions are? Many people think Zoe Heriot was too futuristic from being from the 2070's, but maybe it's Vicki and Steven who aren't enough futuristic for the 2490's and 2360's (I'm assuming) respectively.

Personally, I'm pretty sure that Vislor Turlough was named just Vislor and took the surname Turlough on Earth (it could be a surname the Brig took from some retired UNIT member) and that Riley Vashtee gets his surname from the Vashta Nerada.

Anyway I can see a "Zoe Heriot" being born in 2063-2064, expecially if there's still a form of Doctor Who by then, most likely a neural network generated one!

Also apparently Zoe was dating Mark Khan, who was killed by Alex Storm, who in turn was killed by Karl Taylor... would'nt it be funky if that was Steven's ancestor\greatx7-uncle?!? And\or if Mark's a great-nephew\grandson\cousin twice removed to Yaz. Often I like to imagine characters with same surname to be related, like Polly and Barbara being sisters\cousins, or maybe Polly is, Pollard Wright, and niece to Charley.

Then again, I'm propably biased from my horde of Tishanev's and Foriku's. Which are usually presentday, well sometimes I end up making them into magical beings or even an alien\fantasyworld species named "Sigpry" (expecially early OCs like Dovanice or Pomodà) - but nowadays I'm trying to vary so Nurbleck Foriku is from 26th century.

BTW, I also think all "stranded" companions eventually got back to their own times. And that they eventually travelled on and off with the 8th Doctor and beyond, on rotation, kind of like Ash Ketchum's Pokémon team.

Then again my perception on Companions may be a bit skewed by the fact I pretty much knew a lot about them and was in the Doctor Who fandom even way before watching it, due to Doctor Whooves.

I even called myself Nyssa on the Internet while nonlucid, and spouted about Trakenboards - technically I made one but I forgot about it, never posted anything on it due to Tim telling me it was nonsense to make a board with that name just to make a board with that name. Eventually I found it again but deleted it. Turns out I had mistaken it for another URL, which I'll call the "Second Trakenboard" and posted on the Recipe Book discussion forum. I basically just imagined it, like I imagined that "Glued to the Screen" was named "CasaHalliwell" on its url and even ended up calling it that, even on Admin Betty's face. It was like a nightmare induced by nonlucidity, and that nonlucidity in turn is induced by my pathological obsession for Sims 3's Susan Wainwright. (Plus I also have Autism and CHARGE Syndrome.) Basically in this weird nightmare, Trakenboard was a really hefty board with many folders and posts and even its own original lore with characters called the Trakenguards. Basically, Trakenboard was also the name of a sort-of world inside the Internet, and the Trakenguards went to and from that world. There was even a round robin RP thing (but eventually it turned out that each of us only ended up writing the characters we ourselves introduced!) and other memes like PeriCell or Mermugilliam Brown. Heck, Tim and Natalie even supposedly joined this Trakenboard and so did a few other people from the recipe book board. Then Tim turned it into a fully 'Who board, but I wanted a Susan Wainwright Pathological Obsession Board but we clashed and so I supposedly cancelled it, and there was supposedly also a Mare's Nest post about it, which of course there is'nt because Trakenboard ••••••• never existed in that very URL and form. It should've, though. Maybe with a few more people in it. Could even invite later internet friends or even people I know in real life!
Now on to the Third Trakenboard, who was technically named Swampertwee. And well, it has barely any posts, and pretty much its only members are me and another 2 Internet friends plus some shitposters that found about it from Mare's Nest. But after all, if I actually end up making that PokéWho Mega Crossover, the Third Doctor will encounter a Swampert on his visits to Planet Pokeria. And I'm also very open to a next, fourth Trakenboard! And also on becoming again a GluedToTheScreen regular, perhaps. Nowadays... I kinda have a Doctor Who meme board thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/Hartnell2nd/

On to Steven Taylor, I thought his name felt a bit too... "present-esque" for a 24th century space pilot, but that's just me naming everione Taco Mifune and Ledarna Enakovski, and in fact a name like "Steven Taylor" is basically timeless, there will be Steven Taylors as long as possible. Just don't budge at potential crossovers mixing regular and mukokuseki conventions, I guess. But I do have some characters named after Doctor Who characters. Like siblings Adric and Nyssa Halapsian, or Perpugilliam Tadris!

Also looking at his spaceship clothes from the Chase, it seems like he was initially dressed futuristic at first when he lived in the 24th century, presumably similiar to twin dilemma clothing, and only tends to dress in more 1960's clothes because of the budget\it's only thing he finds in the TARDIS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmypLewtav4

Not really a trailer, but.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtyOvKR6Vk4

This one too! Teehee!

Well, well, well, hello Gaia. Long time no see. Must say that I wasn't expecting ever to run into you again.

Anyhoo...

I even called myself Nyssa on the Internet while nonlucid, and spouted about Trakenboards - technically I made one but I forgot about it, never posted anything on it due to Tim telling me it was nonsense to make a board with that name just to make a board with that name.

Well, why you named yourself after a Doctor Who character and called your board a name of a Doctor Who planet, when you said that you weren't a Who fan, did kind of throw me. As I recall, you kept doing on and on about "metafanon", what ever that was.


Basically in this weird nightmare, Trakenboard was a really hefty board with many folders

Nightmare?? Trakenboard was real, Gaia. I should know, I was there, more or less, from start to finish.


Heck, Tim and Natalie even supposedly joined this Trakenboard

Supposedly?? I did join Trakenboard, Gaia, and you know it. Stop trying to rewrite history.


Then Tim turned it into a fully 'Who board, but I wanted a Susan Wainwright Pathological Obsession Board but we clashed

Yes, Gaia, I did. However, I did it at your convenience. Your metafanon thing was going nowhere, and you yourself seemed to lose interest in the board.

After you okayed my changing Trakenboard into a Doctor Who board, you promised me that you would not interfere. I took you at your word. Big mistake on my part. I worked hard to make into a good Who board and even promoted it here. Rodney ended up joining around that time.

Then you went back on your promise and wiped out everything I had done, and without even giving me a heads up. You just went and did it.

So yeah, we "clashed". Can you blame me? You promised me one thing, and then you double crossed me. Anyway, I deleted my account there and then you nuked the entire board, and that was that.

So you have another site now, Gaia. Good luck with it, but Satan will be snowplowing his way to work before I join another board run by you. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Anyway, Gaia, as long as you follow our rules, you are free to post here. However, considering your past antics, I will be keeping as close watch on you. And I have advised Emily (the Mod of the Doctor Who forum here) and the other Mods to do likewise.

Many people think Zoe Heriot was too futuristic from being from the 2070's

Who says she's from the 2070s? The Indestructible Man implies in the 2090s that Zoe's due to be born shortly...(Admittedly The Indestructible Man makes zero sense when it comes to ANY sort of continuity.)

maybe it's Vicki and Steven who aren't enough futuristic for the 2490's and 2360's (I'm assuming) respectively.

Let's not go there. The audios can't even agree on which of 'em was born first...(See: The Bounty of Ceres versus The Ravelli Conspiracy.)

Personally, I'm pretty sure that Vislor Turlough was named just Vislor and took the surname Turlough on Earth

And yet he expected 'My name is Vislor Turlough, Junior Ensign Commander, identification code VTEC9/12/44' to ring some bells with his own people...

(it could be a surname the Brig took from some retired UNIT member)

Since when did THE BRIG name Turlough?

and that Riley Vashtee gets his surname from the Vashta Nerada.

Who?

Anyway I can see a "Zoe Heriot" being born in 2063-2064, expecially if there's still a form of Doctor Who by then

There IS no form of Doctor Who in the Whoniverse's universe. (Notwithstanding Remembrance's ludicrous hints.) They have to make do REAL LIVE ALIEN INVASIONS!! instead, the losers.

BTW, I also think all "stranded" companions eventually got back to their own times

The novels/audios certainly imply that Steven, Vicki, Victoria, Leela, K9, Nyssa, Mel, Rose, Jack, Jackie, Amy, Rory, River, Clara and Nardole absolutely did NOT. And I dunno if fighting in the Time War could be considered Susan returning to her own time...? And ONE version of Peri certainly made it home but (Peri and the Piscon Paradox) there are a lot of her about...ditto for Ace (At Childhood's End)...

And that they eventually travelled on and off with the 8th Doctor and beyond

Why the hell should THEY get multiple Doctors when I haven't even had ONE yet...

On to Steven Taylor, I thought his name felt a bit too... "present-esque" for a 24th century space pilot

A LOT of current names have endured a lot longer than 300 years.

Anyway, Gaia, as long as you follow our rules, you are free to post here. However, considering your past antics, I will be keeping as close watch on you. And I have advised Emily (the Mod of the Doctor Who forum here) and the other Mods to do likewise.

Fair enough, just for the record - welcome! And also - we just can't take any more Judis. So just...don't do anything too crazy here, OK?

1: I considered metafanon a real word, and guess what? It *can* be!

Definition of metafanon - "fanon of the fanon", as in, liking something for it's fanon, instead of it's canon, like me being in the Doctor Who fandom without watching the show and just knowing it due to Doctor Whooves, being pretty much a fan of Doctor Who forums instead of the series itself. I was such an immature gremlin back then, due to my Susan Wainwright Pathological Obsession-induced nonlucidity. Also I'm Austistic and have CHARGE Syndrome. Nowadays I'm much more lucid and know what I'm doing, I at least try to read the Chakoteya transcripts before mentioning a Companion, or at least I use my own characters. Because guess what?

My characters all have unique names and are much more visually distinct than the Companions, even quirkier and with fuller personalities. Meanwhile the Companions are just a bunch of pretty people with plain names and basic clothing that you'd get in basically any other TV show or movie!
https://i.imgur.com/EfwLbHv.png

Also, back then I was also way too nonlucid to actively watch Doctor Who as actually subbed episodes are hard to find.

2: I assumed it might've been just a nightmare, as it would pretty much explain everything. But I guess it was'nt. Welp, I was just nonlucid (due to Susan Wainwright's pesky influence) as well as having Autism and CHARGE Syndrome. I'm much more lucid now, and I know to actually watch before actually knowing the fandom. Though I rarely play a game or watch a TV show either. I mostly just lurk on stuff. Maybe I'm not really even interested in them at all. Unless maybe they're as original as what I make and\or *very* Georgian. The Caucasus appears a freaking lot in my stories, lel!🇬🇪

3: Well I was non-lucid but now I'm ready to join the 'who fandom again! Notto disu shitto agen! (And a new Samarkand with cream.)

4: I've propably matured enough to run yet another board.

5: Wheel in Space is implied to be set in 2079. And novels are a different continuity in which time lords are loomed instead of born naturally and having families as it's implied a lot in both classic and new series. If Classic Who Companions were as deep and characterized as NuWho's, then it would propably be about as shippy as NuWho.

6: Maybe they're twins. (Though I usually like to think as Vicki born in 2479 but Steven in 2339 making him 140 years older. Meanwhile 2064 feels right for Zoe's birthdate, making her 275 years younger than Steven. I also think there is an UNIT branch that ensures those three's births.) (And if not twins, they could be from the same or really close times, with Steven being born before Vicki but picked up by the TARDIS after Vicki was.) Their parents would have to be both grey-eyed (which both kids got) brunettes (which Steven got) with recessive strawberry blond genes (which Vicki got).

They were both born in 20 February 2479 to a man named Newton Pallister and a woman with the maiden name Taylor. (Or maybe Vicki's surname was actually Taylor all along!?!) The parents divorced, Newton took his daughter, the mom took her son. When Vicki crashlanded, maybe Steven became a space pilot so he could find her. Or maybe they never actually knew that each other had a twin. They did'nt realize they were twins because they were now 22 years apart in age and they haven't seen each other in a while.

Then again, I also fantasized about Steven\Leela long lost twins, or even Sto being the same planet as Trion and maybe Astrid being a daughter to Turlough, or even the "humans" in Messaline - if they had named them "Takrans" that is - being 11th century Trakenites with "the Source" in both story being the *same* Source. Heck I don't even bat an eye at mega Pokémon\Doctor Who ship\crossovers things. If Grimsley and Shauntal are now somehow parents to twin Zoe and Adric, then Grimsley and Shauntal are parents to twin Zoe and Adric, making them two Pokérians instead of an human and an Alzarian. (Yes, I planned to refer to PokéHumans as Pokérians from planet Pokéria.)

Also, that episode likely proves that Jenny is the *only* "Loomed"\artificially-born Gallifreyan, except maybe Maggie Matsumoto, who is more human\anime girl-esque than Gallifreyan-esque. And technically TenToo since he was born from the hand or maybe he is a regeneration of the hand meaning it's the Eleventh Doctor's third hand which is also a whole separate body and they're one person which is two separate bodies at once.

6: Maybe it is'nt of Earth origin, maybe the Trions themselves gave him the surname Turlough for use on Earth due to humans being the only species with surnames, and maybe it has a Trionite origin meaning exiled or war criminal or something of the likes, I think it's either that or it's on Earth origin from when the Brig enrolled him but he kept the name on Trion. So I'm not even sure the Brig named him, he could have surnamed himself Turlough because he saw clouds vaguely similiar to how the name Turlough is written on Trionite alphabet, meaning that the ••••••• clouds technically named him. Or maybe it's a nickname that he gave himself while growing up on Trion, possibly to sound longer and less Trion-esque, like Amanda Rogers renaming herself Portia de Rossi at age 15. Or how Dorothy McShane started calling herself Ace. Turlough is a rebellious teenager too so it's possible changing his name from Vislor to Turlough was a rebellious act. And then it was made his surname on Earth because humans have surnames unlike Trions. Or maybe classic who companions just freaking don't have character development and Trion was pretty much made up on the spot. Which means Turlough could just as well have been a Kitsune and spend an episode in "Kitsune form" with fox ears and nine fox tails and kabuki makeup and an yukata thing. But because Adric and Nyssa are teen aliens, Turlough's also a teen alien from a planet with many of Alzarius' and Traken's traits.

As seen as my song: *E' cambiato il nuovo arrivato - non più Zukcoh ma Taco Mifune - si trasformò da una Kitsune* meaning that he turned human-ish from a Kitsune and now he's the new arrival instead of Zukcoh, who apparently is 100% Sigpry or human or whatever. But that does'nt mean everyone else is - if Taco Mifune was a Kitsune, there would be other Kitsunes around!

7: A 42th century spaceship crew member.

8: If people can name their kids Avocado, they can name them the same names as the companions they already share surnames with.

Or maybe Avocado (maybe "Avocado Pear"?!?) is itself a future companion name!

Or maybe Taco is, and people both in and out of universe *do* think he's a Trion, but he's actually the first Kitsune companion.

(Well, there *was* a Supernatural episode about a Kitsune calling herself Amy Pond...)

7: Welp, there are more than one K9, Jack\River\Clara pop in and out anytime, and Nyssa does'nt have an home to go back to. Rose and Jackie basically replaced other Pete's own Jackie.

But I'm pretty sure that with so many time travellers, someone would have ended up rescuing them by bringing them back one where their families and friends miss them! Expecially as bringing people where they should'nt really be would cause paradoxes and changes in the will of time! (In cases where I ship people from separate times, I tend to think they end up living somewhere outside time or maybe it's some kind of cracky AU with all Doctors and Companions living together in the same town.)

And if Time had meant a specific companion to live and die in a specific place and time... they'd have made that companion be born there in the first place!

8: Same reason Ben and Polly had at least two Doctors but Bridget Sinclair's daughter didn't, instead disappearing while on drugs, while Bridget herself died shortly after encountering him. And it seems like many people haven't even encountered the Doctor in their lives or even saw the TARDIS! Or else the Doctor would be an intergalactic celebrity, someone would have managed to map a Doctor+Companion timeline helped by the various Companions and UNIT\Torchwood staff, which would perhaps have gotten leaked, which means Vicki\Steven\Zoe would propably have seen themselves in the timelines (and presumably thought "wow that person has the same name as me and seems like it could be me!") and even if they did'nt see the actual companion timeline, there would be many people with ideas that Time Lords are a thing, or that the Doctor is propably a regenerating time-travelling and that there might also be other such regenerating time-travellers around! But often it seems like that Steven and perhaps even Vicki never heard of Time Lords or the Doctor! Heck it's even very likely that not even freaking Jack Harkness did, and that then it was him to spread the "bigger on the inside" catchphrase since he's the first one who says it!

9: It is timeless just as much as most of the Companion names, but it seems bland if you're used to hordes of Fumba Dugno and Nurbleck Foriku.

Maybe "plain" is a better word?

Then again, many NuWho episodes imply that 2001th century people have 21st century-esque names (like Lynda Moss), or that freaking aliens who just discover Earth have 21st century Earth names (like Astrid Peth or Alonso Frame). I get the "Near Future trio" (Vicki, Steven, Zoe) having fairly plain names according to pretty much all of the 2nd and 3rd millennium and propably also some of the 1st and 4th. But not a 21th century alien who has never heard of Earth, or even a 99999th century human, having names recognizable to us.

Then again it might be a similiar thing to how all species "look Time Lord", all names end up resembling Earth names, but if you look at Classic Who, the aliens - and far future humans - are named stuff like Rukat and Qazvin and other stuff that's nothing like English\German\French\Spanish\Italian. But then it seems like after the Time War everyone was forced to adopt Earth names (and even freaking clothes and architecture!), because now you get alien planets with characters named "Frida Cassari" and "Umbert Quack".

Meanwhile I do the opposite way, my character names have gotten way more oddball than the names I made up when I was a kid. Then again, Doctor Who has a lot of writers. So I'm sure that many of them slowly ended up making their stories and character names\designs less 21st-century-esque if you compare them.

10: Judi is'nt crazy!

Unless you meant I'm crazier than her, then likely I will be.

Judi is'nt crazy!

There is no "Judi", Gaia, there never was. "Judi" or "Natalie" or God-knows-what-else isn't even a woman.

His real name is Paul Austin. A fellow Mod here unmasked him, a few months ago. He had pulled the wool over all our eyes for years. And it seems likely that he's into child porn (going by some of the stuff he's posted here over the years).

Needless to say, he is persona non gratta at Nitcentral now.

If you have any contact with him, Gaia, I suggest you terminate it. If you're mad at being tricked, join the club.

Here is the info that Emily shared with us about that "interesting" character.

Paul Benjamin Austin

Who is this "Susan Wainwright" you keep bringing up?


Nyssa doesn't have an home to go back to

Nyssa is just fine. She's happily living with Tegan in Australia.


Same reason Ben and Polly had at least two Doctors but Bridget Sinclair's daughter didn't, instead disappearing while on drugs

Who in the dead gods of Krypton is Bridget Sinclair?


you're used to hordes of Fumba Dugno and Nurbleck Foriku

?????????


a 99999th century human, having names recognizable to us.

According to Doctor Who, they know who Britney Spears is, millions of years from now. I think we can let this slide.

1: So it's a 4channer\troll? I assumed the weird stuff were partly misrememberings due to my nonlucidity. If they were a troll, then it's good I deleted the board. Let's say I'm someone who's way too good & pure.

2: She's a premade sim: https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Susan_Wainwright

3: Yeah they're totally married and go on girl dates with Peri, Mel, and Ace!

4: The older woman who was part of LINDA in Love&Monsters.

5: My OC's names. (It's Mukokuseki.)

6: Maybe it's "Classic English" and "Classic Names", just like the Earth we know is a Classic Earth. Heck, you know how my dad often says he'll live to 850? Maybe we become immortal and old people get deaged. Anything could happen. Futuristic names can be anything from "Bob Smith" to "Apz-nux-Chl'pix". Even in the same century.

But why does everyone on Sto have Earth-esque names if it's a completely different planet? Should'nt they be named stuff like Teka or Pizuc like about every Classic Who aliens?

-

Oh wait I had a Companion idea. What if there is a Companion who seems to be from the future, but is actually from an advanced lost civilization in the far past? Or even from technically another world? Like someone from Atlantis, Mu, or even the Uq'ana Samq'aro of Georgian Mythology!

If I were a showrunner, I'd introduce a Companion that was a Sigpry from Planet Soligo. Propably even my own Aroush.

Yeah they're totally married and go on girl dates with Peri, Mel, and Ace!

Well, Ace made it back to Earth sometime after the end of Classic Who, as she attended Sarah Jane's funeral (and inherited K9 in the process). So she could hang with Nyssa and Tegan.

All this was revealed in the BBC video that came out last year, Farewell Sarah Jane. Written by RTD (the once and future Producer of Modern Who), it served as the distant finale of the Sarah Jane Adventures (which ended when Elisabeth Sladen died in 2011).


If I were a showrunner, I'd introduce a Companion that was a Sigpry from Planet Soligo. Propably even my own Aroush.

??????????

1: Yes, and some people think Mel also ended up back on Earth. And\or ship Mel x Ace, or see Mel as having been Ace's Companion on Ace's TARDIS. So, why not Peri?

Ace had quite a few episodes set on present dayish Earth. Did'nt she? More than other companions at least.

2: Aroush is the main character of my story Amiche per (Cau)Caso.

The Doctor Who Ratings Guide has published an article I sent them about Nyssa/Tegan:


http://pagefillers.com/dwrg/articles6.htm#17

Imagine if due to Jack\River time travel shenanigans, *every* Companion (well not ones like Adric who ended up dying, more of, Steven and Vicki showing up only a lil older than they're in the first doc era, and perhaps wearing funeral clothes for their own centuries, showing that they got back where they should be! Or even Susan\Leela\Romana popping in from Gallifrey since it's been destroyed and returned so many times. And of course Turlough pops up from Trion. Jamie and Zoe back with their memories, et al.) ended up in the 21th century for the funeral. So basically the Smith Family is like a cooperative of former Companions, and Sarah Jane was the leader, and now it's Ace\Dorothy.

In fact I'm imagining a Tegan\Nyssa spinoff, maybe with hybrid children and a K9\Mr. Smith equivalent. Ey maybe the children we see in the K9 spinoff, had a Tegan\Nyssa connection. Also maybe Nyssa ages up to resemble a "lemon head" like the old keeper we saw on Traken. Also I like to think, perhaps technically Nyssa was underaged by Trakenite standards when we first met her, like a similiar age to Adric (14-15 year equivalent) but she was chronologically at least 18 years old. Turlough is propably the same way, adolescent or young adult depending on different planets' standards. And that she turns Trakenite-adult while travelling alone with Fivey between when Tegan leaves and when she rejoins.

There's also the fact that Tegan\Nyssa joined together, similiar to Ian\Barbara or Ben\Polly. And I'm pretty sure that if Ian Marter were still alive in the 2000's, Harry would go on to marry Sarah Jane, too. Wait, what if Luke and Sky are genetically Sarah and Harry's? Just with some powers added to make them bioweapons?

Luke and Sky do look a lot like each other, they share those same eyes and eyebrows, those grey droopy eyes just like Harry, and those fleek eyebrows of Sarah Jane's. Both also have hair like Sarah Jane's, medium brown and slightly wawy. Harry has the same color but curly. All four of them have a peachy skintone. Luke and Sky also have Sarah Jane's heart-shaped face, but Luke also has Harry's jutting ears. They both have Harry's lips, too. And they both have kind-of combination of Harry and Sarah's noses. Luke has Harry's nose with Sarah's nose tip, while Sky has Sarah's nose with Harry's nose bridge.

I was hoping Emily would have something to say on my article. One of the reasons I post links to them is to get her insight. Ah well...


And I'm pretty sure that if Ian Marter were still alive in the 2000's, Harry would go on to marry Sarah Jane

One of the novels was going to have them married, but the idea got nixed at some point.

I still ship them. Then again, I ship quite a bit of nevermet and crossover ships.

https://thedoctorwhocompanion.com/2018/03/01/imbeciles-united-an-alternative-history-of-harry-sullivan/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtyOvKR6Vk4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmypLewtav4

Crossovers are fun. You did mention the story we did, a few years ago, which became A Grand Adventure, in which Tegan and Nyssa met Gilligan and Mary Ann.

A promo pic I made for that story, a few years ago:

https://i.imgur.com/4QGhrBb.jpg

Yeah these two couples are v different!

And I added more different characters, such as from Pokémon and Sims 3.

If this board had a different format, something similiar could be done here (but this time I will try to "play as" all the characters!)

Eventually it could be time to become a Glued To The Screen regular again, too. That way, the Round Robin could be made there instead.

Then again nowadays I focus on my own IP instead.

Yeah these two couples are v different!

And I added more different characters, such as from Pokémon and Sims 3.

I remember that, Gaia. However, since only the two of us worked on it, we each had our own storylines going on. I had Nyssa, Tegan, Gilligan, and Mary Ann having adventures, while you did the Fifth Doctor doing the same with the characters that you picked.

The problem was that our two storylines were completely independent of each other! That is why we reached the mutual decision to split our two stories apart.

Here is my part of A Grand Adventure:

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11906855/1/A-Grand-Adventure?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=7I7UKJf25bo3aQNSuXFp..4PohQ.AYfSTDMG3LDeoPM-1639894910-0-gaNycGzNB6U


If yours still exists Gaia, please post a link to it. I'd like to read it again.

Nah, I just ****** it up by not *also* writing Nyssegan and GillMary's parts. If I had done so, you'd also be writing the Twinleafshipping and Jade "Pekoe" Greenwood parts of the story!

I just... sort of assumed you'd make them meet on your own. I was nonlucid!

And I don't have the story anymore, how could I, I had to delete anything "Sims 3" so I could repixel Susan Wainwright! And Jade\Pekoe is a big part in the story.

But I have this: https://gaia-nicolosi-sims-fanon.fandom.com/wiki/Jade_Greenwood?so=search

Also: https://web.archive.org/web/20170312015224/https://trakenboard.freeforums.net/

And if it exists on webarchive, maybe it can even be brought back?

Nah, I just ****** it up by not *also* writing Nyssegan and GillMary's parts. If I had done so, you'd also be writing the Twinleafshipping and Jade "Pekoe" Greenwood parts of the story!

That might have been part of the problem. Neither of us knew of the characters the other was writing about (aside from the Doctor Who ones, that is).

Well, actually technically I did'nt knew Nyssa and Tegan either, because I don't actually watch DW or any TV programme! I just was nonlucid and saw myself and Susan Wainwright in the pair.

Usually in a me = Tegan and Susan = Nyssa way, but also sort of the opposite, somehow.

Also... I tried to go on Glued To The Screen again... and got banned again. Because of a nonlucidity that mostly does'nt exist anymore.

Then again, not being on GttS may help me stop believe in Susan Wainwright. (Repixel's a dumb word.)

Yet you called yourself "Nyssa" when I first met you.

You do realize that "Susan Wainwright" is fictional, Gaia. You talk like she really exists.

Because I was nonlucid. I would have used a more creative name otherwise. And I would propably have different favorite companions once and if I get to watch all of Classic Who.

And yes, Susan Wainwright is fictional, but part of me sees her as an old long lost childhood friend.

I was hoping Emily would have something to say on my article. One of the reasons I post links to them is to get her insight. Ah well...

Well OBVIOUSLY I'm gonna bless you with my insights! I was just kinda busy with stupid non-Whoy things like Christmas. (Family was holding an early fake-Christmas owing to my brother wanting to spend PROPER Christmas with his in-laws shooting things and me not giving a toss cos if THERE'S NO DOCTOR WHO CHRISTMAS SPECIAL who the hell CARES what random day(s) it's...'celebrated' on?)

'This video finally gives proper closure to the character of Sarah Jane, her series, and to the fans as well'

I seem to remember Rani hinting it might NOT be closure...?

'Among the actors featured in the video are Katy Manning (Jo Grant) and Sophie Aldred (Ace). Having them there really helped bring home the idea that this is real, that Sarah Jane is gone for good.'

The HELL she is!

That's what DVDs were INVENTED for!

'However, now it's canon, one has to wonder where it will go from here. Perhaps Big Finish will give us some Nyssa/Tegan stories in the future. Perhaps they'll even tell us the story of how Nyssa made the journey back to Tegan.'

You are thinking MUCH too modestly.

RTG will soon be back as our Lord and Saviour and He has made it clear Who should contain multitudes of simultaneous programmes involving any Doctors n'Companions He could get His hands on...to hell with Big Finish (who, just for the record, ABANDONED Nyssa in a dying E-Space)...

Is “E-Space” the new name for Tim’s bedroom now? ;)

RTG will soon be back as our Lord and Saviour and He has made it clear Who should contain multitudes of simultaneous programmes involving any Doctors n'Companions He could get His hands on

The Nyssa & Tegan Adventures? I'd watch that!

https://www.tumblr.com/blog/peoplesrepublicoftraken

I seem to accidentally have named\themed something after Traken again.

Interesting that this keeps happening to you, Gaia.

One would almost think that, despite your words to the contrary, you are a Doctor Who fan.

Well, technically I don't actually *like* watching Doctor Who. I'm more of a fan of reading about it. Often expecially about Nyssa x Tegan or Nyssa x Adric.

I think it's because Nyssa is one of my "support characters" to help with this burning feel and contrast. Same thing with Lillie from Pokémon really.

Part of me sees Susan Wainwright as an old friend although I know she does'nt exist. So I distract myself.

That's also why I made a RP blog for Susan's own best friend! Because I thought, she might have one, heh! (The old Masquerainment movie.)

https://www.tumblr.com/blog/linniabreccoqual

I'm more of a fan of reading about it.

Well, you'll find a lot of that here.

I know.

No doubt why you came here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRxXe4FP_IA

And now I have a video in which Doctors and Companions are countries.

It's different, I'll say that.

Yeah I also have a video of the People's Republic of Traken.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU17qQrnYvQ&t=1s

Also, I realized something:

The two companions to join the Doctor at the very start are a couple from the show's present day, and so are the two companions to assist the Doctor through his first regeneration.

In both couples, the man has a three letter name ending with N and a longish surname with an -on ending. And the woman has the last name Wright.

To an ever nice book end, the last couple to join the Doctor in the series' very own finale, or maybe just the 60th anniversary, should also follow this name pattern, like Ken Winston and Samantha Wright, or something like that.

I realized that while thinking "What if Johnny Chess had married a Ben\Polly daughter and we get a grandchild of the two couples on the TARDIS!?!?"

in the series' very own finale

In the series WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!

What if Johnny Chess had married a Ben\Polly daughter

The King of Terror implies he married Tegan.

Series finale before fully Neural Network-generated 'Who.

I ship Johnny\Tegan too (then again I also ship her with Nyssa, the (usually 5th, 6th, or 12th) Doctor, Jenny (the Doctor's daughter), Peri, Steven...)

Overall I have a lot of ships, basically. Jo Grant\Thal Baker is just the newest one. (I even think both Jack Harkness and River Song have already pretty much flirted with basically all of them.)

And yes I know that Thal Baker is not a Companion, I just dreamed meeting him at the same time as Katy Manning, so. And I already tend to often prefer minor characters rather than Companions.

And I've shipped characters for less.

Tegan's TARDIS wiki page said that she dated Michael Tanaka, leaving him at age 46 due to a tumor, and then dating Nyssa by the time she's 50. But nothing stops her for having a fling with a 39-to-43-year-old Johnny in the meantime. He could still have had a child with Ben and Polly's daughter (let's call her Nerissa Jackson), making Tegan a stepmom to Nerissa's children, who in turn are Ben and Polly's grandchildren.

Of course, Tegan seems to also end up with William Haybourne in her 60's. He dies 10 years later.

Though the wiki also says that Ben and Polly, despite being supposedly an iconic TARDIS couple, never had children together (Polly had a son named Mikey with another man, and then left Mikey's dad for a sailor that was'nt Ben) and although Flip and Maria are also Jacksons, they're not children of the couple. (Well, they have brown hair, if they were children of the couple it would look like Polly has cheated and got pregnant with perhaps people who should'nt be born yet, namely Jack Harkness and possibly even Steven Taylor, and I think she deserves a strawberry blond child with Ben.)

I've always liked the idea of Companions being related, such as:

Barbara and Polly being sisters\cousins

Flip and Maria being children or even grandchildren to Ben and Polly

Pretty much all Companions are related in some ways to Ben and Polly because when the Doctor regenerated, the TARDIS got somehow attuned to Ben and Polly's genetics and that's why it spends so much time on present day Earth with so many present day Earth companions.

Past companions such as Jamie and Victoria are actually ancestors to present day ones, such as Jamie being an ancestor to Amy, Charley an aunt to Polly (who is actually Pollard Wright!?!), Edward Travers is Victoria Waterfield's first cousin once removed (because Victoria and Lyndon are first cousins, Lyndon being about 11 when Victoria was first taken on the TARDIS).

Future companions such as Vicki, Steven, Zoe, Leela, are actually descendants to present day ones. Maybe they're descended from Jo since she has a lot of children, I imagined Jo knitting sweaters for Vicki\Steven\Zoe and taking awkward family pics in those sweaters. Zoe looks a bit like a Ben\Polly descendant but with dark hair. Maybe she's Ian and Barbara's descendant too? Vicki has strawberry blond hair like Ben but otherwise does'nt really remind me of anyone, Steven has grey eyes like Vicki, and Leela is from much further in the future from the other three and also from a distant planet, to the point that she can be descended from all three of them.

I often think that they must've returned to their home times since there must be a reason they were born in those centuries in the first place, and also the greek myths are based on the history of the planet Minyos meaning the real Cressida is a Minyan and not a 25th century human. It ended up as greek myths due to morphic resonance. And maybe like how Mario is Italian despite being from the Mushroom Kingdom, or Aroush is Armenian despite being from Soligo, the Minyans we meet are Greek despite being from Minyos, and the other mythologies correspond to other planets. (Like Hindu mythology corresponding to a planet of ethnic Sanskrits, and Egyptian mythology to a planet of ethnic Egyptians)

Heck I think other worlds from other TV shows, videogames, books, etc. are actually Doctor Who planets. For example I think the Pokémon World is a planet named Pokéria, the Mushroom Kingdom is also a planet composed of 8 worlds, Hylia is yet another planet, so is Middle Earth, Planetos from GoT, Midchilda (Nanoha\Fate is an equivalent to Tegan\Nyssa... energetic and charitable Earth girl with redder hair, who dates a blonder, serious and calm human-ish girl from an advanced magical planet, although Midchilda is perhaps more of a Gallifrey than a Traken), the Fantasy World from Konosuba... They're all different planets each. Some might be different interpretations or places within the same planet.

I've also thought that Kovarian and Tasha Lem are distant relatives of Amy and Rory respectively, and that Tasha's surname "Lem" is a descendant of the surname "Williams".

I've also seen people talking about:

Dodo is a descendant of a child Steven and Anne Chaplet had together.

Ace is Rory's mother.

The Seventh Doctor (possibly chameleon arched) is Ace's biological father.

If both are true it means that the Doctor is Rory's grandfather, and River's great-grandfather, hence the two of them are part Time Lord.

Maybe a few Companions are Jack Harkness' illegittimate children!

Gaia, you should who that TARDIS Wiki makes no distinction between the show, Audios, and novels. They are all jammed in there together, despite giving contradictory accounts.

They should have two Wikis. One for the show (Classic, Modern, and BBC approved videos) and one for everything else (Audios and novels). That would make things much easier, IMO.

There are various levels:

Level 0 - JUST Classic. Not even the TV Movie.
Level 1 - Classic, TV Movie, and NuWho.
Level 2 - Classic, TV Movie, NuWho, SJA, Torchwood, K9&Company, and Class.
Level 3 - Classic, TV Movie, NuWho, SJA, Torchwood, K9&Company, Class, and the expanded universe.

I think there should be a level 1 and level 3 wiki.

So yes, I know that there are a lot of contradictions, but if you blend all versions of present Tegan together it comes up to a story like that. But there's no reason why Tegan's love story could'nt be completely different, after all NuWho often contradicted the Expanded Universe too.

Common contradictions:

In the show (even the classic series, yes even in the fifth, sixth, and seventh doctor eras) it seems like Time Lords have families, and are born the natural way, but in the novels they're loomed.

Jamie McCrimmon is sometimes spelt as Jamie MacCrimmon, Zoe Heriot is sometimes spelt as Zoe Herriot, Zoë Heriot, or Zoë Herriot. Sometimes, "Gale" is Ace's surname and not middle name.

I'm pretty sure Steven has been referred to as Stephen and HiFi as Hi-Fi. Steven himself is either from the 24th or 28th century and is often referred to as being from the 23rd century too. (At least with Susan, Leela, and ROmana there are reasons for their home century being ambiguous)

Susan is: the daughter of the Doctor's son, the daughter of the Doctor's daughter, *and* the pre-loom granddaughter of the Other who loomed himself into the Doctor.

Other Companions have slightly different birth years and backgrounds, like one time their father died before they were born and their mother was poor, unemployed, often homeless, and never remarried and only had the one child. But in another account their mother and father lived into elderhood, had their own villa, owned a major restaurant chain with restaurants in the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and posthumously even Skaro, and had 11 kids with the Companion being the 6th and a minor character from the next era being the 11th.

A planet may be in our galaxy one day, and in a whole other galaxy the next. In some stories where the characters are of an ambiguous species, sometimes they end up being far future humans and other times they end up being aliens.

Traken one time has no seas and other time it has islands in its southern hemisphere.

The first interplanetary Earth Empire started the year after Vicki was born, but apparently it sometimes seems to exist much closer to the present day, like in 2060\2090\2100.

Futuristic fashion in NuWho tends to be the same as in the first 3 decades of the 21th century. But futuristic fashion in Classic Who tends to look futuristic yet with tells of whether it was designed in the 1960's, 1970's, or 1980's. Twin Dilemma is supposedly set when Steven's 1-year-old, yet Steven and even Vicki tend to default to much less futuristic-looking outfits, even in their debut episodes, and then both of them expecially Steven end up in 1960's clothing for most of their runs. (Both of them being pretty much the only two companions that don't tend to default to their home century's clothing) Should'nt a 24th century man and a 25th century girl default to their own century's clothes (or at least not 1960ish clothes) when going to the 51th century or an alien planet? Meanwhile Zoe defaults to futuristic outfits that are supposed to be 2070's fashion (although she did once wear the outfit from the alien planet they went to) yet they look slightly more futuristic than Vicki and Steven's own outfits, yet much less futuristic than what 51th century people wear in NuWho episodes. Even 21th century aliens who don't know about Earth, would be wearing 21th century Earth clothing in their own planet. (It's either that, or the future and alien societies look Victorian.)

Heck the Loch Ness Monster and Atlantis have like a bunch of separate explanations each. The Moon is an egg but also not. The UNIT era is set at the same time it aired but also it's set from 1970-1980 but also it's set from 1980-1989. There are a lot of contracdictions even going on Classic Who alone.

Companions being related, like descended from each other, or even being like distant cousins, seems like one of those things that would be different for each new audio or novel, but it is still fun to guess. Like shipping Companions that never met!

Yeah, Doctor Who has done the "there's a planet where the aliens belong to one earth ethnicity and their history is the mythology of that ethnicity" trope. And it has done "humans look like timelords because timelords made it so other species look like them." Does'nt mean they're necessarily canon. In fact it sounds more like all Minyan are of Minyan ethnicity and that their history maps to all myths and not just Greeks. Which means it's possible for there to be both an human and Minyan Cressida depending on the story, just like how the Sherlock Holmes books are based on Jago and Litefoot, but also are based on Vastra, Jenny, and Strax, but Holmes and Watson were also real people. Sometimes the TARDIS only goes at random, other times it is fully capable of going where the Doctor and Companions want to go. Sometimes the Time Lords, Daleks, and Cybermen are well known and other times they're not. Doctor Who has done anything and everything basically.

Also I was thinking about an AU where Nyssa and Tegan swap (Trakenite aristocrat Tegan, regular Earth girl Nyssa) but what if the swap included every companion?

Also what if Trakenites\ALzarians\Gallifreyans\Trions weren't made to look exactly like humans?

There's your problem.

You follow all the mediums and you'll be confused as heck.

Yeah. There's too many contradictions, even in one era alone.

I won't be surprised if there's a contradiction within the same season or even the same serial.

That is why it's better to just relegate the novels and Audios to an alternate reality.

Yup. It is a "might be". Easier to study the character progression and see what they might end up as. Most likely they would'nt end up related, maybe just really good friends and there could be one ship or two but far from every Companion dating each other. But I think that Jamie and Victoria might be ancestors to the present day folks (Jamie propably to Amy, Victoria propably to the Travers family after getting back to her time during Season 6B) and Vicki, Steven, Zoe, and Leela descendants to the present day folks. If so they're propably each descended from a bunch of them because none of them really remind me of a specific present day Companion.

I thought, people often cast relatives to former Companions as new Companions (and it's almost always Alfie Enoch) and also cast relatives to former Doctors as new Doctors (usually Pertwees, Troughtons, and Davison-Tennants) but how about the opposite?

Like, Frazer Hines' nephew or niece playing the Doctor alongside a Companion that's a Troughton or Pertwee granddaughter. Maybe the Doctor also revisits faces from his future!

Actually I think a new Enoch companion, if one was to be pitched, would work if:

1) Alfie plays a new Susan regeneration.
2) Alfie plays the *third* generation of Chestertons on the TARDIS, this new Companion is the son of a Ian\Barbara offspring, who is perhaps played by one of Alfie's half siblings. Hence two Enoch half siblings playing 2nd and 3rd gen Chestertons.
3) Same thing as 2 but it's a more distant descendant like in the 51st century or maybe 24th like Steven or 25th like Vicki.

Then again, Meglos had Lexa who looks exactly like Barbara (to the point of being played by the same actress) but in the clothes everyone wears on Tigella, which implies there's also an Ian double on Tigella (and thus the other planets) which implies not only that Alfie Enoch could play a 19th century Trakenite that's may or may not be related to "Ian Chesterton Traken Form", but that there are doubles of everyone on every planet.

"Everyone has doubles on every planet & is a double of specific Gallifreyans hence why not just everyone looks Time Lord but everyone looks like specific regenerations of specific Time Lords and every Time Lord has doubles of all their 13 regenerations on every planet" is canon actually.

NuWho called it "Spatial Genetic Multiplicity" and said everyone was echoes of specific Gallifreyans and\or specific regenerations of specific Time Lords and that this was a natural thing. The expanded universe calls it "Morphic Resonance" and said that the Time Lords themselves engineered the other species to be human-like.

Some of the relatives of the actors have gone into acting themselves (like Jon Pertwee's son, Sean). So this could happen.

Yes I know, and also that the Doctor revisits new and old faces, which can mean the Doctor may revisits faces of people who has'nt meet yet, hence the Moment looking like Rose instead of Cinder, Molly, Benny, Ace, or w\ever.

Also, I had this idea about the alternate Companions.

He got exiled but this 3rd doctor was evil so he became a dictator!

And Pete's World could be the world where the Doctor fixed the TARDIS back in his first incarnation before the age he would be in An Unearthly Child, meaning that the TARDIS went where the Doctor and Susan wanted.

Which means Susan did'nt go to Coal Hill and instead, after the Time Lord Academy, started travelling on her own TARDIS with John and Gillian.

Which also means Ian and Barbara did'nt met the Doctor. Which means he's known as Theta Sigma instead.

Vicki and Steven just weren't born. Neither was Zoe - or even Leela or Jack Harkness. Instead their ancestors married other people. This is because the Doctor had other adventures and thus changed the flow of time.

The Doctor also regenerates shortly after fixing the TARDIS and while Susan's at the Academy, this also before the age he would be in An Unearthly Child. So he's a 2nd Doctor but not Troughton, since he regenerated into different circumstances.

Though he does still get a Sonic Screwdriver and a K9. He also has a Space-Time-Visualizer, keeps 500 year diaries for each incarnation, even jelly babies, psychic paper, and undershirts with question mark lapels. Basically he's a mix of various Classic Doctors but also Nu Who.

Dodo still exists, and has like a few adventures with this 2nd doctor but then goes back to Earth, where Ben and Polly join instead.

Eventually Ben and Polly leave after marrying each other, Polly becomes pregnant a while later. They don't last long as 2nd Doctor companions either.

Since this 2nd Doctor is'nt the 2nd Doctor we know, he does'nt meet Jamie and Victoria. His companions are a boy from the 26th century and a girl from the 17th. Both are around 22 when they start travelling with the Doctor. Both are about 25 when they leave.

Sometimes after they leave, the Time Lords exile this 2nd Doctor still to Earth, but with Torchwood in the USA instead of with UNIT. (Brig, Benton, Yates, Liz, and Jo exist, but they have their own adventures instead. They might have met the Doctor like, once, at a UNIT\Torchwood gala affair thing, but not talked to each other much.)

This alternate 3rd Doctor has a Torchwood Team of 2 men and 2 women. All of them are from the 1970's. Initially he seems to be their ally, but eventually they lock him in the basement and experiment on him so the Torchwood Team can get regenerations. They also manage to copy TARDIS technology.

Eventually they leave an alternate 5th Doctor (Yes. 5th.) alongside K9 and the TARDIS in the basement.

Sarah Jane resques them, and travels with Alterna!5th and K9. She is 22 when that happens, and is 29 when she eventually leaves. K9 leaves with her, and she is also given a Sonic Lipstick. She goes on to marry Harry Sullivan.

The Fifth Doctor goes to Gallifrey again, becomes Lord President, and goes with Romana on the quest of the Key to Time. After the Key to Time is completed, it causes them to regenerate. Alterna!Fivey into an Alterna!Sixie, and Romana into a Romana II different from Lalla Ward's. But both have similiarities to Princess Astra's bloodline. They marry each other and go to live on Gallifrey, they have a son and daughter together, and eventually Romana becomes Lady President herself!

Time passes. The son and daughter graduate from the Academy. Alt!Romana II is still Lady President, and Alt!Sixie is still vice-president. This is while our Doctor would be the Eighth Doctor and travelling with Charley Pollard and C'Rizz.

A lot of other time passes. Theta Sigma VI and Romana II manage to stop the Time War. (Meanwhile in our timeline, Eighth is travelling with Molly.)

A lot of yet other time passes. Meanwhile the Ninth Doctor travels with Rose, Theta Sigma regenerates into Theta Sigma VII.

Theta Sigma VII also manages to repair the TARDIS' chameleon circuit. He travels with his own K9 as well as teen alien girl and boy, from a different planet each. The two teens are about 11 when they join, and about 17 when they leave.

You should do more Doctor Who fan fiction.

I think I will. I did do some fanfiction, mostly of the cracky kind. (Though I propably will rather imply that the Doctor was'nt even born\the Time Lords\Gallifreyans don't even exist in Pete's World, or more likely not touch Pete's World at all!)

https://archiveofourown.org/users/Kaiko_Mikkusu/works

Although it's mostly Simpsons and well some of them also Saki (because I reused one of its characters as an OC of mine)

Also I thought something: What if instead of looking human but always wearing their planet's home clothes, the alien Companions were made to look alien? Like with odd skin\hair\eye colors or even cat\bunny ears or w\ever.

You could do what I've done with my Timelost series. Take elements from both Classic and Modern Who and mix them together.

I'm doing a fic where little kid Ace meets the other 1980's Companions.

I will propably do fics where characters from both Classic Who and NuWho meet. I'm expecially planning on shipping Dan with Peri. Also Ace with Nasreen Chaudry and\or Bill Potts.

Is Timelost that fic where some Classic and NuWho COTD (such as Lynda Moss and I think also some guy from the Pertwee era) were lost on New Pacifica from Earth 2? Or is it another fic?

No, the Timelost series started in 2017, after you and I had fallen out of contact.

The lead characters are Vince Hawkins (from the Classic story, Horror Of Fang Rock) and Sally Sparrow (from the Modern story, Blink).

I have written five Timelost stories to date.

You can find them here at my FF.net account:

https://www.fanfiction.net/u/4415262/Tim66

Ah I'm starting to read it right now.

I also made a turkic space teen meme: https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreAllTurks/comments/rxehep/the_space_teenagers_are_turks/

And now I ended up making some recolors.

https://gaia-mix-nicolosi.tumblr.com/post/672644542309285888/some-recolors

that fic where some Classic and NuWho COTD (such as Lynda Moss and I think also some guy from the Pertwee era)

That's this story:

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13577408/1/Riverworld-Who-Style?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=sjayXPUIO3.XdW3ugyO..bv59L2PqzqQToTV5GR40Q8-1641559018-0-gaNycGzNB2U

Oh so it was Riverworld and not Earth 2.

Who would you put on New Pacifica?

Who would you put on New Pacifica?

That happened in A Grand Adventure, the story with Nyssa, Tegan, Gilligan, and Mary Ann.

If you had to bring COTD there they'd still pretty much be the same ones, right?

The Riverworld story is a revival of the idea I had in 2016. I tweaked it up and added Sarah Jane. This made it fun, as she and Garth Eckersley had a history (Monster Of Peladon).

The Expanded Universe has the "City of the Saved" as an afterlife in a TARDIS room. It has every human that ever lived, and apparently, Victoria and Jamie are married there.

Well, it wasn't quite a TARDIS room (the TARDIS Compassion set it up complete with state of temporal grace so all the resurrected humans wouldn't hurt each other, which if you'd ever MET Compassion would feel unlikely, her name is HIGHLY IRONIC.)

I don't actually remember a Victoria/Jamie marriage in Of the City of the Saved...though a) I haven't read most of its spin-offs and b) I DO remember it saying that no marriage survived the first few centuries of the afterlife...

(Just for the record, Jamie married Kirsty-from-The-Highlanders in the Companion Chronicle audios and *shudder* had more bairns than days of the week, and Victoria got a crush on some explorer she met in Tibet in the video/Missing Adventure Downtime before founding a Yeti university, whilst Polly and Jamie are unconsensually hypnotised into married life in The Home Guard audio...but hey, why shouldn't Jamie n'Victoria get hitched after BEING DEAD...)

Well, at the time she was a TARDIS and she possibly had a Time Lord piloting it. Maybe they used Compassion as the TARDIS to put the City of the Saved in, because Compassion herself was an human (Laura Tobin, who is even a contemporary of Benny Summerfield) at one point.

It is'nt confirmed to be Victoria, but: https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/V._M._McCrimmon

Compassion herself was an human (Laura Tobin, who is even a contemporary of Benny Summerfield) at one point.

Laura Tobin was human, Compassion was a copy created from her biomass and people's memories of her, designed to be affected by any signals she came into contact with, hence her turning into a TARDIS after the Doctor STUPIDLY routed all said signals through Sexy in an attempt to stop Compassion turning nasty if the nearest signals were...

You can't fit all the expanded universe into canon. Too many contradictions.

Yeah, technically Compassion is to Laura Tobin what Xion is to Kairi and Naminé. A copy made from other people's memories. But Compassion seems to be almost identical to Laura Tobin in appearance and personality (as she is supposed to be like a copy of Laura Tobin) meanwhile Xion, Kairi, and Naminé all have a different hair color and personality from each other.

But yes, Laura Tobin's an human, born in the late 26th century. She's about 30 years younger than Benny Summerfield, 100 years younger than Vicki Pallister, either 200 years younger or older than Steven Taylor, 500 years younger than Zoe Heriot, 600 years younger than the present day-esque Companions, 700 years younger than Victoria, and 800 years younger than Jamie. Faction Paradox used their technology to remember her back as Compassion, while Xion was made in more magical ways.

Technically, the Kairicolors aren't even Earth humans, Kairi's from a world known as Radiant Garden. But, the difference between Radiant Garden, Destiny Islands, Twilight Town, Traverse Town, and Land of Departure is treated a bit different than the difference between Earth, Gallifrey, Skaro, Traken, Alzarius, and Trion. Basically they're treated as a fantasy Earth that got separated into various worlds.

But yeah, I tend to mention the EU a lot but it always contradicts itself.

but it always contradicts itself

Hence the problem.

I try to stick as close to canon as I can in my stories. For example, I had Sarah Jane appear in my third Timelost story (Stone Circle). I was going to have her back again, but then RTD went and made that video, which killed her off (offscreen of course, as her actor had been dead for years).

So I wrote a one off Timelost story (Legacy) which shows that Vince and Sally had attended Sarah Jane's funeral and interacted with other Who character that were there (including Nyssa and Tegan).

However, I wasn't done with Sarah Jane yet, so that is why I revived that Riverworld story and sent Sarah Jane there. That gave it a conflict the original version didn't have, as Sarah Jane and Garth Eckersley had a history (watch Monster Of Peledon to see that history).

Here is a promo pic I made for the Riverworld story:

https://i.imgur.com/TVSvBIi.jpg

Myself, I like to think that the Doctor actually had his companions on rotation since about his late seventh early eighth incarnation.

So basically after the newest Companion gets dropped off, he travels with Susan, then Ian\Barbara, then Vicki, Steven, etc. until it loops over to the newest, which (if I was showrunner) would be the one that we see on-screen, but we also hear a lot about her meeting all the past Companions and interacting with them, heck I will have her chat with the previous Companions on phones and stuff. Which also means about every possible TARDIS team already happened. There have even been megaparties with all of them around.

Mel and Peri have done gardening together on the TARDIS' carrot plants.

Amy has acted alongside Tamsin Drew. Heck, the Doctor's own sister is an actress, she joins in.

Leela, Ace, Jamie, and Charley have went to explore planets together and brought back new pets for Vicki.

Vicki has showed off her new baby pet Lupar to Victoria, but eventually the little Lupar (which Vicki had named Rhododendrum Kamil Pallister the First but which is actually named Galvanimsha) went back to their parents after chidings from Clara, Dan, and Steven.

Vicki actually teases people for being prehistoric since she's from the future compared to the rest of them. She thinks her 25th century veterinary skills work better on C'rizz (and even Nyssa\Turlough\resurrected!Adric) because Harry, Martha, Molly, and Rory's prehistoric medical knowledge only works on humans. Which is followed by: "We're only 500 years older than you!" "She calls the Red Flight Fifty's very own pilot prehistoric!" Vicki then claims that the Red Flight Fifty itself was a prehistoric spaceship and that's why it even crashed on Mechanus. But then someone else makes Vicki notice that she's here on the first place because the UK-201\Astra Nine crashed on Dido.

Ace claims that she wishes Charley was her grandmother. Eventually Ace's bethroted to Charley's potential first grandchild. Then Dodo chimes in, saying that Charley's son should marry Dodo herself, and then Dodo's child who is in turn Charley's grandchild, should marry Ace. So, Charley decides to bethrot her first child to Dodo, and the first resulting Pollard-Chaplet grandchild would in turn become bethroted to Ace. After many trials and tribulation, (and even after Charley and Ace had already kissed each other, but also they had already both kissed Jack Harkness, River Song, and propably even Amy Pond and a few other Companions. A LOT of ships have happened.) it turns out that one of Charley's one true loves is indeed Ace's own grandmother Kathleen Dudman. In 1950 they open the Pollard-Dudman Travel Agency together, and also raise little Audrey together. OR Charley - even if she's also Polly's aunt - could be the mom of Harry McShane, making her Ace's paternal grandmother. And Ace's second cousins with Ben and Polly's child, perhaps Ben and Polly have a daughter who would then on marry Johnny Chess and have a son and daughter with him, who then are Coal Hill students and maybe watch Susan Foreman regenerate for her first time. Or more likely nobody's even related by bloods but I'm sure quite a few have time to become step-relatives or in-laws. Some like Jamie and Jo have so many children I would perhaps be more surprised to hear the two of them aren't ancestors to Vicki, Steven, Zoe, Leela, and\or Jack Harkness. Maybe Victoria is an ancestor to both Vicki and Steven as well as being related to the Travers.

Dodo, Jamie, Jack Harkness, River Song, Amy, and Ace going panty raid at a teenage Steven's hiveblock bedroom, or even 30th century Azerbaijan or whatever. Dodo then comes back dressed in orange Twin Dilemma-esque clothes, which actually she stole from the bedroom of teenage Steven. (I think more stuff agrees with a 24th century Steven rather than a 28th century one)

River actually shows up to ask people to join her in a panty raid, Amy says "Yes!" and Clara rolls her eyes and goes "At least I'd be a better mom to a timehead like you." Victoria gasps, Steven, Graham, and Dan ask Amy to be a better example.

Zoe hangs out a lot with Tegan\Nyssa\Resurrected!Adric, Jo with Peri. Well really they all hang with each other a lot.

Someone might decide the nuthouse is too much and so, early in the morning, directs the TARDIS to Roncesvalles and goes there. Sometimes it's Rocamadour instead. Often it's in said Companion's home time or a few centuries before or after, but often it's even an earlier time, Don Quixote times or even Charlemagne times. Actually, the less people there are living in those towns, the better. Someone, during a soujourn in one of those towns, has taken the Durendal and gifted it to Tamerlane.

Mel and Amy's screams are sometimes compared to each other, but otherwise Mel often ends up hanging out with Zoe. Zoe brings the smarts in Mel (they're both very smart), and as Zoe is from late 21th century Stratford, and both have read every Shakespeare play and have eidetic memories, they bond over obscure Shakespearean ships. (They already shipped some of the same obscure Shakespearean ships before, now they share a lot.) Then Vicki comes with her usual "What, you guys still read and watch those prehistoric plays?" and the three of them end up watching neural-network generated stuff and making up silly ships.

Ben, Harry, and Steven are a dynamic trio. Jamie often ends up tagging along. Jamie and Steven are also a dynamic duo.

In fact at one point, Ben, Harry, and Steven decide to land the TARDIS inside an empty Red Flight Fifty. Then they decide to pilot the 24th century spaceship with the TARDIS inside, in what Vicki would deem the "prehistoric way". Eventually, they find Gallifrey, decide to land on it and explore\officially discover it. Of course, being humans, they were actually the *last* discoverers of Gallifrey in the whole Milky Way\Mutter's Spiral.

Actually, Vicki and Victoria are another dynamic duo, no, technically Susan\Vicki\Dodo\Victoria\Zoe\Nyssa\Ace are a dynamic 7.

You should write all this down.

Actually I did start writing a small fic with the 1980's girls, and even made up a sister of the Doctor! (Yes because the Doctor has a sister)

https://gaia-mix-nicolosi.tumblr.com/post/673471253511798784/look-its-the-doctors-sister-lexeratianadimar

Well, the Doctor has a granddaughter. So why not a sister.

Yes

Knowing me I’ll propably introduce Stevens sister or any companion siblings too

Well, the Doctor has a granddaughter. So why not a sister.

The Doctor has a granddaughter (Unearthly Child), dad (telemovie), mum (telemovie), kids (Doctor's Daughter), seven grannies (It Takes You Away) and brother (Braxiatel from the books and audios), four wives (Death in Heaven) etc etc but mercifully NO sign of a sister...

As far as I know, the only Classic Companions known to have siblings are Adders and Turlough.

Yeah we don't know the Classic Who families much.

Anyways:

Susan - is an only child, with John and Gillian as cousins.
Barbara - an only child, with her father dying when she was little.
Ian - has a brother and sister. They go on holiday together in a cottage in North Wales.
Vicki - an only child, mother died young.
Steven - we don't really know anything about his childhood, well beside he had a mother and grandmother, and his childhood home is known as an "hiveblock".
Dodo - an only child, lost both parents.
Ben - has an older brother who taught him swear words.
Polly - Second child of the family, she has four brothers.
Jamie - We know his dad Donald but not his siblings. It is possible he has many. If so a few of them could not have reached adult age.
Victoria - Only child, mother died early.
Zoe - She was taken from her family to live on the wheel, so propably no siblings either or she could have a sibling her parents had after she got on the wheel.
Liz - Her sister, Lucy, is a lecturer of medieval church architecture.
Jo - Apparently no siblings but has a cousin named Stephanie.
Sarah Jane - No siblings, parents died when she was a baby, raised by Aunt Lavinia.
Harry - He has a stepbrother named Will, but we don't know about biological siblings.
Leela - A sister named Ennia, who died before Leela was born. Leela's mother also died when she was little.
Romana - We don't really hear about her having siblings, it's possible she has loom cousins instead, but she has a mother and father (which are considered "bohemian" by Earth terms) and was also raised by robots.
Tegan - No siblings but two cousins, Colin and Michael.
Nyssa - Only child, mother died when she was little.
Peri - Only child, father died when she was a teenager.
Mel - Like Leela, her sister died before she was born.
Ace - Has a little brother Liam, who was raised by their father while Ace by their mother.

Mel - Like Leela, her sister died before she was born.

Nah, didn't toddler-Mel (accidentally, honest) kick said sister down the stairs or something in Spiral Scratch...?

Yeah, she kicked her sister down the stairs. Well, Anabel was 3, Mel might have been likely a few-months-old baby at the time.

Also, I drew timeheaded Chesterton and Jackson kids.

https://preview.redd.it/t6lw7gbdofc81.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1a1bd06726d48ca5f2fa490af87ee0acbe869f6b

I'm guessing all this comes from the EU, as it most certainly didn't happen on the show.

Yes in Classic Who almost nobody got their family shown. Meanwhile in NuWho they appear so much that half of each series is spent in Present Day Earth with them.

I think a nice midway to take it is to introduce the Companion's family, but not focus on them that much. Instead of a whole episode at the Companion's home, you have the Doctor dropping the Companion at their place after each episode.

In my mind, the Classic Whos also had family time, with the Doctor leaving the Companions at home, perhaps having an adventure at the Companion's place, then having decades or centuries of solo adventures (this is why the Doctor is 200 when he picks Susan and steals the TARDIS, but 400 when he regenerates) and going back, and also having many TARDIS teams we don't see, so in my mind, they ALL met. There were several times in Classic Who where the Doctor knows how to exactly park the TARDIS in the exact spot it should, so of course he can drop the classic Companions to their place and bring them back with him. It is just that the newbies are being focused instead. And in my mind the Doctor brought them all back to comply with their original destinies.

So Vicki became a veterinarian in the 25th century, Steven became the pilot of "Red Flight 60" with a brand new crew, Victoria is the secretary and owner of her dad's inventing estate back in the 19th century and perhaps married into the Travers family, Leela spends two jobs (Romana's right-hand lady on Gallifrey, and leader of the Sevateem on Mordee), Peri owns a botanical garden back in California, Mel and Ace now whizz around together in Time Lady Ace's own TARDIS.

Victoria was born in 1852 (being a 14 year old in 1866) and Edward Travers was a 44(ish) old man in 1935(ish) meaning he was likely born in 1891, 39 years younger than Victoria. Alun and Anne Travers were respectively born in 1936 and 1937 respectively, making them 45-46 years younger than Edward Travers and 84-85 years younger than Victoria. So I think it would be nice if it turned out Edward and Anne were Victoria's son and granddaughter all along.

Mel and Ace now whizz around together in Time Lady Ace's own TARDIS.

What has Ace ever done to you to deserve such a fate? (Alright, so she seemed bizarrely fond of her 'doughnut' in Dragonfire but any more exposure to Mel and this would surely have worn off pretty fast...though come to think of it they had some audios together, I just can't quite remember how they interacted cos I can't quite remember ANYTHING about 'em...)

I will quote what I said a while ago on Reddit:

Actually I find her kinda sweet and sugary, but she could have been written and played better.

Same for Dodo and Adric really.

Also, I'm pretty sure I did'nt deserve to be in late 20th\early 21th century Palermo either. I need an inferior and wacky place, like the Caucasus, Central Asia, or even another fricking planet.

Gaia, you were four years old when the 20th Century ended!

Yeah, I was about 0-3 years old in the 20th century. I still did'nt necessarily *deserve* to be born in 1996 Italy instead of 1196 Georgia or 5096 Planet New New Samarkand.

Anyways, which Companions would have been better if they were from another time period? How would that change them?

Considering how the writers wrote them I don't think it would have mattered at all.

Vicki's Victorian beliefs were ignored and she was stuck in a miniskirt.

Sure characters like Jamie were treated as stupid because everyone in the past was stupid, unlike us enlightened founts of wisdom in the present, and people in the future were good with techy stuff, but were otherwise contemporary because how could you improve on the pinnacle of intelligence of the present day, right?

Sadly most of the writers just didn't care about the backstories of the companions and how that would affect their actions and reactions.

Victoria was the Victorian, Vicki was from 25th century, although they were both eventually stuck in 1960's clothing just like 24th (or 28th) century Steven.

But yeah they perhaps should have written them more past\future-esque.

https://www.wattpad.com/1182066010-kidpanions-ace-rebels-and-meets-the-other-girls

I finally finished the fanfic about Ace rebelling.

Sure characters like Jamie were treated as stupid because everyone in the past was stupid, unlike us enlightened founts of wisdom in the present, and people in the future were good with techy stuff, but were otherwise contemporary because how could you improve on the pinnacle of intelligence of the present day, right?

Jamie was a country bumpkin from the 1700's, and on the losing side of a rebellion to boot. What kind of education would he have gotten?

And if you took someone from that time and stuck them in present day New York City, of course, they're gonna be confused!


Victoria was the Victorian, Vicki was from 25th century

Funny that, when Vicki was introduced, Barbara asked if her name was short for Victoria. Vicki said it wasn't, it was just Vicki.

Odd, but it did happen. The late Betty White's first name was actually Betty, not Elizabeth (which Betty is a short form of).

Yeah, Jamie was propably illiterate or almost illiterate, and uneducated even for his time.

The name "Vicki" peaked in 1950s-1960s, while "Victoria" in the 1990's.

Imagine if it had been "Vicki Waterfield" and "Victoria Pallister" instead. It would have been so funky.

Yeah, there are like 7 teenage girls and 2 of them are named Vicki\Victoria and other 2 are named Dorothea\Dorothy.

And also Polly and Barbara both have the surname Wright. Names get reused a lot in DW.

Yeah, there are also two Daniels (Pink and The Latest One), two Elizabeths (Liz and Bessie), two Michaels (Mike Yates and Mickey-the-Idiot)...

Ben, Flip, and Maria all share the last name Jackson, which is also the first name of Jackson Lake.

Ryan shares the last name Sinclair with two eighth doctor companions.

Sarah Jane and Mickey are both Smith’s, Martha and ianto (and jo after marriage) are both jones.

Heck even having a jack and a Jackie is pushing it.

Or Sara kingdom with Sarah Jane.

Well companions tend to have fairly plain names so there is bound to be overlap.

Ryan shares the last name Sinclair with two eighth doctor companions.

TWO?

Sarah Jane and Mickey are both Smith’s, Martha and ianto (and jo after marriage) are both jones.

Lawrence Miles once suggested The Stolen Earth should be renamed Smith and Smith and Smith and Smith and Jones and Jones and Jones and Jones.

(Sarah, Luke, Mr Smith and Mickey; Martha, Francine, Harriet and Ianto...)

Victoria was the Victorian, Vicki was from 25th century

Whoops! Sorry.

Yeah, Jamie was probably illiterate or almost illiterate, and uneducated even for his time.

Plus he backed the wrong side in the Jacobite Rebellion. Yeah, he's not getting into Oxford or Cambridge anytime soon.


other 2 are named Dorothea\Dorothy.

The given names of Dodo and Ace.

Plus he backed the wrong side in the Jacobite Rebellion.

Wanting to overthrow ANY of those Hanoverian Georges is a sign of intelligence. Admittedly, backing any of those Stuart Jameses, not so much...

Well, if the Audios are to be believed, things turned out well for Jamie. Didn't he and Kirsty hook up?

I don't know in which alternative universe hooking up with Kirsty and having more bairns than there are days of the week can qualify as turning out well.

It was a time before birth control.

There were still things one could...do. Just look at the way population growth fell off a cliff in nineteenth-century France once laws started being passed that you had to send your rug-rat to school instead of up chimneys...

Overpopulation wasn't a big deal back then.

We had plenty of wars and diseases to keep us in check.

Yeah, I wasn't so much blaming Jamie (and Kirsty) for the overpopulation catastrophe, just thinking what it was like for HIM with all those screaming brats about the place...as you say, a few of 'em would croak but that's not exactly a happy thought either...

That's why people had so many kids back then. They knew full well that a few of said kids would never make it out of childhood.

https://i.redd.it/d7jyun6cs2e81.png

Have a little comparison.

Cruel, very cruel...

Yeah

https://gaia-mix-nicolosi.tumblr.com/post/674734157662945280/i-tried-raceswaps-and-theres-a-15th-doctor-too

I tried some raceswaps.

Black Clara is really lovely.

Companions In Space:
https://imgur.com/a/FGzKXtW

Of course, Karen is there

They should put some for all eras. I like multi-era stuff, what I can say?

Anyways, I think Millennia may count as a Companion. Technically, she and the Doctor were Companions to the War Chief, but: https://preview.redd.it/hsnfrjmu8te81.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=2b9369be82b51844cc98e20441c7d969694afdc9

I also once made a Time Lord lifestates which includes some variants of some companions.

https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Fanon:Time_Lord_(lifestate)

Who is this "Millenia" you keep going on about?

She's part of the Deca, the clique that the First Doctor was part of in Gallifrey.

This means she was a companion to the War Chief, alongside the Doctor, Master, Rani, Meddling Monk, Drax, her boyfriend Rallon, Vansell from the EU, and Jelpax. There are 10 of them, hence "The Deca".

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Deca

Oh.

Forgive me, but my knowledge of the EU is very limited. Read a few of the novels, listened to one Audio, but that's as far as it goes for me.

Got it.

Saw the movie North v. South (2015) starring Freema Agyeman.

Also featuring Sydney Wade. A few years earlier she was the Little Girl in The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon and who would grows up to be River Song.
So a movie with Martha and River in it.

Look, Gaia, could you not clog the site up quite so much with your bizarre-Companion-obsessions. We ALL have our bizarre-Who-obsessions but the rest of us have learnt, admittedly over a couple of decades, not to scream 'ECCLESTRAITOR!' or 'LIGHTHOUSE MURDERER!' or 'VINCE 4 SALLY 4EVER!' every day we just...wait for a relevant opportunity and then pounce on it.

Some wait for an opportunity, some create their own.

YOUR bizarre-obsession is KNOWING EVERYTHING, you have an unfair advantage...

Ok I will make a thread for it. Creating my opportunity instead of making my own.

Ah yes, that would be fine.

http://nitcentral.philfarrand.com/discus/messages/1135/32402.html?1644410180

This is it.

Some wait for an opportunity, some create their own.

Got that right.

Saw the movie North v. South (2015) starring Freema Agyeman.

Never heard of it.

https://scontent-fco2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274567501_663871868256376_1622948754416084709_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s720x720&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=666b5a&_nc_ohc=QdY-crnz6bgAX964b_f&_nc_ht=scontent-fco2-1.xx&oh=00_AT8-Apw8mfuCsgmoOWaJk0nH_qoT6UW5hTsYCoHHjq_Mgg&oe=6226336A

Tessa, fusion of Tegan and Nyssa.

https://www.ncls.it/g/archives/7504

I've begun shipping Nyssace, too.

As if Nyssa would EVER cheat on Tegan!

It's a semi-AU semi-cracky ship thing. Of course I still adore shipping Nyssa with Tegan and even Adric.

And I also like to ship Ace with Mel, Bill, Johnny Chess, Susan, and Nasreen Chawdry.

Basically I'm a multishipper lel

Of course I still adore shipping Nyssa with Tegan

There is no need to ship them anymore, since RTD canonized their relationship.

They do everything on "Doctor Who", so of course it would get canonized sooner or later.

Same for Ian\Barbara, Ben\Polly, even Mel\Ace.

https://www.ncls.it/g/archives/7507

It's Nyssa and Ace again.

Holding hands like stepsisters should!

https://www.ncls.it/g/archives/7510

It's Nyssace in Ukrainian support!

There is an orange theme for these Who girls: (although one of them is the Doctor)
https://imgur.com/a/4N7gRM0

It just needs Freema and then it will be complete. Well at least for NuWho.

They missed one.

https://i0.wp.com/www.ncls.it/g/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/whorangegirls11.jpg?w=800&ssl=1

I fixed it!

https://preview.redd.it/7qj86xspgdo81.png?width=2776&format=png&auto=webp&s=bf68e84eefe60c844c98400d916e12a4f66712ba

Yeah, we need more future boys.

https://www.tumblr.com/blog/the-tattletales-sticki

And finally I got a Sticki tumblr.

https://isobel-pallister.tumblr.com/

I resurrect my fancompanion, to yes, all 13 Doctors.

There's no way any Doctor would put up with a Companion for THIRTEEN INCARNATIONS. The Doc was wildly in love with Rose but two lives in he ditched her in an alt-uni cos he got bored...or something...

It's mostly because she holds the Key of Cohesivity and Interconnection, making the 13 eras interconnected. Basically she's a connection between all eras. But she might end up having a Doctor she travels with the most, maybe the fifth or eleventh?

Or more likely, she won't stay a Whoniverse character but become something else. Because really I'm only doing DW stuff out of habitude. Maybe she'll tie in with Nibiru instead.

Apparently, Steven and Jo are twins.
https://i.redd.it/xrykcihmryq81.jpg

https://www.ncls.it/g/archives/7607

Species-swap AU!

Also I remembered something.

The other day I bumped up into a clip of Power of the Daleks where Victoria was wearing her compression jacket, and I thought, she looks nice in 25th century clothing.

They should do something like that, have a companion switch around between outfits for various eras and even planets. Even mix-and-matching between stuff from various eras\planets, a bit like how the Doctor dresses or how Romana was dressed in her last episode.

Let's have someone from 12th century Tbilisi dress in 51st century velvet.

Or someone from the 22nd century who dresses in medieval peasant clothing and samurai uniform.

Or someone from 102nd century BC Traken who wears a zoot suit from 30th century Aneth.

Doctor Who Online on Ace and Tegan teaming up together:
https://twitter.com/DrWhoOnline/status/1515981542484590593

Her partnering with a talking cabbage is a genius move. But I always thought Tegan and Ace had a lot in common. Both being 1980's punky tomboys. Of course they have chemistry.

Hope Peri, Nyssa, and Mel show up with them. Like a triple date between Tegan\Nyssa, Ace\Mel, Peri\Grace.

https://www.ncls.it/g/archives/7683

And finally I made a musical episode.

Nyssa cheated on Tegan with ACE?!

THAT would make for an interesting final-JODIE!-episode...

Or maybe at one point she was with ace and another point with Tegan

Heck maybe Tegan and Ace were together

Sometimes I realize that maybe Vicki’s last name was indeed “Cressida “ all along (as in, Vicki Delphine Cressida)

And maybe Polly was indeed Polly leuppi

And maybe Mel was named Melanie Casterflow and Ace was Dorothy Acepick or whatever

Oh wow, someone I haven't met before.

I hope this is a good sign for the future.

Please don't include Tegan--I hate her.

One the other hand-- if you could get Nyssa and Ace together --that I'd watch(and if you could include Sarah Jane Smith and Zoe bliss).

An interesting dilemma for you then, whether or not to watch JODIE!'s last story. Sure, it's got Tegan but it's also got Ace. And given that Tegan and Nyssa are married (see The Sarah Jane Adventures: Season Five: Farewell, Sarah Jane) a 'surprise' appearance by Nyssa is far from out of the question...

If they are married Nyssa had better stop cheating--Tegan could really make her life miserable.

What, as opposed to the roses-and-kittens-filled life Nyssa will be living with Tegan if she's faithful...?

I'd imagine that almost anything would be better than living on an space wreck, trying to treat space lepers ,while hoping not to catch it and die.
Although I will admit that I suspect that being married to Tegan might be almost as bad.

Okay, let's try again.

I did not mean to imply you were really a stalker
I simply never even learned what tact is.
As far as I know the worst thing that I've ever posted was over on the Star Trek board--and rather than keep it secret I almost dared you to read it. I thought it would be good for a laugh.
Since then I've received more attention than in the last 10 years combined.This confuses me badly.

I guess my question is:why are you reacting to me like a mother cat guarding her kittens???

I'm not. You keep trying to provoke me into going all rabid-oochie on you but I just respond to your posts like someone who responds to practically every post on Nitcentral cos that's just what my obsessive-personality has been doing for the last...

...*Counts on fingers* Twenty-four years.

••••.

Now I understand.

Now I see the root of the problem we're to similar.
My excuse is that I've been at it longer.

Star Cops season 2 finale Mother Earth: Hostage from Big Finish guest stars Sarah Sutton.

Sutton had played Doctor Who companion Nyssa in the Doctor Who TV series and eventually reprising her for Big Finish and Mother Earth is also a Big Finish production.

In fact she is not the only Doctor Who companion actor in Hostage as principal cast members Rakhee Thakrar (Priya Basu) and Philip Olivier (Paul Bailey) had played Doctor Who companions Bliss and Hex respectively for Big Finish.

However unlike Nyssa coming from TV Doctor Who, Bliss and Hex are original companions created for Big Finish.

https://preview.redd.it/e54kxfobz7p91.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=55867bd9bc2c214d27deaa1fe73f2e419719ae7e

https://preview.redd.it/8w63nv3dz7p91.png?width=1043&format=png&auto=webp&s=14a9c82df2eb96850e21a13d81c2b0f9b99c2ebb

https://preview.redd.it/v22cqv3dz7p91.png?width=1345&format=png&auto=webp&s=f4769961d3244e38750f0bdb932eb9f69648d1a0

https://preview.redd.it/djxdru3dz7p91.png?width=1416&format=png&auto=webp&s=4b57487db95cdbb7f5c4cf2a00e2f75d6c9f63c4

What Makes Tegan and Ace Legendary Doctor Who Companions:
https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/what-makes-tegan-and-ace-legendary-doctor-who-companions/?fbclid=IwAR3JfKB9NdB63D2iHZ68uPg0MxDg8ik17wrU-KxTOuupCAR2h3DSNrw5Vsk


The Master was in Tegan's first adventure Logopolis and would be in Survival, the last televised adventure for Ace due to it being the last for classic Who.

So quite a symmetry because presumably both will meet the Master again in The Power of the Doctor.

Trakenboard is coming back

https://support.proboards.com/thread/672238/recovering-proboards

https://trakenboard.freeforums.net/

Perhaps a mechanical cat can be a Companion one day.

A mechanical cat. A real cat. A Cat-Person for Companion. A Cat-Person for Doctor. I'm not fussy, any of 'em would be fine, Who just NEEDS MORE CATS.

And I need a million dollars but neither seems likely….

t seems there is a resemblance between Millie and Jenna.
In fact both were in soap operas beforehand with Millie in Coronation Street and Jenna in Emmerdale.

https://imgur.com/a/pUMRbo2

There is no such person as 'Millie Gibson'.
Clearly, Jenna Coleman, having heard that David Tennant has returned to Doctor Who, simply put a blonde wig on, gave a fake name to Russel T. Davies, and snuck back on the show!

Ha, like she'd have to BOTHER, apparently during the Moffat Era she was ALWAYS announcing she was leaving before deciding to stay on and Moffat just went along with it every time...

Martha and Ace:
https://imgur.com/a/ti3CJgB

I made a Nyssa\Turlough roleswap

https://www.ncls.it/unigaia/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/photo_2023-06-11_19-25-2dj0-1024x1024.png

It's Nyssa and Turlough in a roleswap where they're known as Cranleigh and Vislor.

The Master is still in Tremas' body, but Cranleigh only learns of that in King's Demons!

Because the Watcher brought Vislor in, instead, so it's Trion the one that gets destroyed accidentally!

So the events of KoT basically happened in 1978 and with no Doctor in there, similiar to the Trion civil war, and Nyssa gets exiled to Deffry Vale and thus poses as Ann and Charles' youngest daughter and is thus known as Cranleigh!

Gaia, you didn't happen to write a spin-off novel under the name Tim Gambrell, did you?

Cos I read The Children of January and thought of you. A lot. What with the Brigadier's granddaughter running round with Barbara and Ian's granddaughter, Polly and Ben's granddaughter, Sergeant Benton's great-nephew, Tegan's cousins, Anne Travers' cousin, Harry's grandson...Admittedly none of 'em were interbreeding (it being a children's book and all) but it's surely only a matter of time...

Naah, I’d use Gordon Stewart and Andy Jovanka (the adopted son mentioned in PoTD) instead. And Kath McShane, Rochelle Taylor/Uusitalo (are they the same or diff people?), Chloe Elliot, Thal Baker, Priscilla Jackson, Maisie Yates…

And of course Colin and Robin have an adopted kid duh 🙄 hence them being cousins to Tegan

AND I’ll propably also have people related or descended to one-episode characters too. And not just the humans either.

And for interbreeding there’s so many people that eventually they’d be related too!

Carole Ann Ford and Mandip Gill and Daleks in the Doctor Who 60th Anniversary issue of Radio Times:
https://imgur.com/a/vzjvgdf

Maisie Williams and Jenna were reunited at the Miu Miu Autumn/Winter 2017 presentation:
https://imgur.com/a/3R42B0N

The Nobles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqVCdNkMGlE

Celebrating 60 Years Of Doctor Who With The Iconic Time-Travelling Sidekicks Wendy Padbury and Nicola Bryant on This Morning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju7-UKMvPGo

Jenna and Karen, the latter at the premiere of her movie We'll Take Manhattan (2012): (with thanks to Bill Richardson for compiling these pictures at Doctor Who Infinity on facebook):
https://imgur.com/a/KKbx6Mq

Meet Eleven's Companions:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAPN2iTDAyg


Karen and Jenna were on this panel together in 2016 on the subject of both being Eleventh Doctor companions.
Funny what Karen says about the moderator at the start.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/0f4c2923ce6a17ebb4afc3b587be535e/afa02ba9836aaa63-9d/s540x810/b8c3d06e07cd0bd02f03ec4d4002fb334a19583a.pnj

Tegan and Nyssa as Asuka and Rei

Somehow Adric as Shinji just seems oddly appropriate.

Kaworu as Turlough

Whilst writing something down it suddenly came to my mind that Billie rhymes with Millie.

Obviously I knew that before but funny that it happened to me like that.