Taking a conversation from Kevin regarding "Historical period you'd like to see in a televised story?" I'm wondering who you'd like to see in a future story? With Dickens, Van Gogh, Agatha Christie, Churchill, and Queen Victoria showing up, it's likely we'll see more people from our past history show up.

I'd like to see Jacques Cousteau in a Sea Devils episode or perhaps Yuri Gagarin, the first man in space, or Alfred Hitchcock or the Beatles.

Benjamin Franklin.

Tsar Nicholas II and his family.

Richard III. Of course, they met in Fifth Doctor audio The Kingmaker, but that, er, may not have been 100% historically reliable...

A previously unseen Scarlioni, and the Doctor has to stop him doing something without altering the events of City of Death.

Tsar Nicholas II and his family.
Could be interesting, especially as the Doctor is usually on the side of the rebels and revolutionaries, but it's hard to imaging the BBC doing a pro-Bolshevik story.

Did Nicholas appear in Wages of Sin?

I might go for Alexander I though.

but it's hard to imaging the BBC doing a pro-Bolshevik story.

Yeah, no way those thugs and murderers can ever be heroes.


Alexander I might be interesting, as legend has it he faked his death and lived another 40 years as hermit. Maybe the Doctor helped him do that.

How about Eastern Europe in the autumn of 1989, during the fall of Communism?

Was the Doctor nearby when the Berlin Wall was pulled down that fall?

Was the Doctor nearby on Christmas Day, 1989, when the people of Romania gave Nicolae and Elena Ceausescu a special gift, a one way ticket to Hell (they were executed by firing squad that day).

I'm sure a good writer could work a story around those ideas.

How about Eastern Europe in the autumn of 1989, during the fall of Communism?

Was the Doctor nearby when the Berlin Wall was pulled down that fall?

Actually I'd prefer to believe that humanity achieved SOMETHING by itself, thanks.

Was the Doctor nearby on Christmas Day, 1989, when the people of Romania gave Nicolae and Elena Ceausescu a special gift

I hope not - he'd only have felt it his moral duty to try to stop the firing squad. Well, unless it was that one-day-every-century-or-two he was in his 'Today I honour the victims, JUST SHOOT THE ********' mood.

Oh I'm not saying the Doctor caused the Wall to be pulled down, just that he was nearby. Perhaps the fall of the Wall could be used as a backdrop for an adventure, like the London Olympics were used for Fear Her or the Coronation of Elizabeth II for Idiot's Lantern.


The execution of the Ceausescu's were probably a fixed historical event and the Doctor would not interfere.

I wonder what would have happened had we got a hardliner instead of Gorby?

Would we still be seeing "BONN (AP)" and "WEST BERLIN (AP)" in our news

I wonder what would have happened had we got a hardliner instead of Gorby?

Would we still be seeing "BONN (AP)" and "WEST BERLIN (AP)" in our news


Here's an idea, sometime in the future, a bunch of die-hard Commies decide that the world would have been better off had Communism not collapsed. They build a time machine, with the thought of coming back and killing Gorbachev, before he came to power.

The Doctor finds out about the plot and has to stop them before they screw up history.

I would enjoy this because it would deal with major world events that happened in my lifetime. I remember watching the Wall come down, I remember watching the Ceausescu's get what they deserved (I was 23 when all that happened).

I'd like to see Jacques Cousteau in a Sea Devils episode

If any historical person were to be featured in a Sea Devils episode, I'd go for H.P. Lovecraft.

Jacques Cousteau

"Ah, the mysteries of the briney deep! Unfortunately, all we found were some old beer cans and this rubber tire"

"That's an endangered species at most. What would be the scientific purpose of killing it?"

"Revenge."

H.P. Lovecraft. The Doctor meets Cthulhu!

They kind of went there with HG Wells in Timelash - and in terms of the subject matter, a story that would truely inspire Lovecraft would be well beyond what the BBC could get away with at 6pm-ish on a saturday night.

I'm thinking someone like Ada Lovelace - historically important enough to be relevant storywise (especially if she helps solve the episode rather than merely being inspired by the solving), but obscure enough for most people that the audience won't guess her part ahead of time.

/I{a story that would truely inspire Lovecraft would be well beyond what the BBC could get away with at 6pm-ish on a saturday night.}

Would seeing Cthulhu chomp down a few worlds really be that bad?

Cthulhu is supposed to be so utterly abhorrent that the mere sight of him drives people stark raving mad. If the BBC broadcast images that lived up to that description, several million Doctor Who viewers with be reduced to gibbering insanity, which would not be good for the BBC's reputation.

No, if the Doctor meets Lovecraft, the horror will be done by implication.

Yeah, driving your viewers insane is not good for business

"Cthulhu is supposed to be so utterly abhorrent that the mere sight of him drives people stark raving mad. If the BBC broadcast images that lived up to that description, several million Doctor Who viewers with be reduced to gibbering insanity, which would not be good for the BBC's reputation."

I would like to see Clifford Culley attempt Cthulhu. That would reduce many viewers to gibbering insanity, but for different reasons to the ones Lovecraft imagined.

How about Robin Hood, or perhaps the Doctor meets the person who inspired the legends. There are references to an outlaw named Robert Hode, who lived around the 11th century. Maybe the Doctor can meet this guy.

That rubbish 'Thief of Sherwood' story in one of the Big Finish Short Trips books kinda put me off the idea.

Plus, let's face it, even Who couldn't possibly give us a better Robin Hood than John Cleese's Time Bandits one.

Well, I would still like to see it. I really don't care what a non-canon Audio has to say.

Didn't the earliest Robin Hood legends have him chopping the head off a page-boy just for fun?

They tried doing a 'Robin Hood' story for season 16, with the twist being that Robin turns out to be the villain. Unfortunately the early draft scripts weren't up to scratch and the writer kept turning up to production meetings drunk...

The Doctor arrives in Ancient Greece and finds an alien woman, Miduuza, stranded there. Miduuza has mandibles for hair and, as a defence, she can alter the molecular structure of other creatures. When fearful natives attack her, she uses this ability to transform them into stone.

The Doctor helps Miduuza escape Earth, but realizes that he's just seen the beginning of the myth. Miduuza=Medusa

He's already been to ancient Greece in ''The Myth Makers''?

Plus he's met Medusa in Mind Robber.

Still, Who has never been adverse to a little repetition, and they could probably do her hair better these days...

The Minotaur was used more than once.

And, to further support Emily's position on repetition, never once to good effect.

Actually, I don't think Greek mythology and Who mix well, despite the many attempts.

Really not a fan of Who stories that attempt to explain how myths got started (and this includes non-Earth myths), nor of stories that show how our historical events were really caused by aliens. City of Death excluded of course.

That said, after Rome and Pudding Lane, I do demand equal time for my hometown and Mrs O'Leary's cow.

That's right, Kevin, you're a Chicagoan.

There was a 1976 TV movie on ABC (which was a pilot for a TV series that never got picked up) that dealt with the Chicago Fire. Irwin Allen (of Lost In Space, Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea and The Time Tunnel) made it. It was pretty good, for an Irwin Allen TV production.

BTW: The name of this TV movie/pilot is The Time Travellers.

The Doctor could save those Dionne Quintuplets from exploitation at Quintland.

(and Captain Jack could date all five Dionne Quintuplets)

The Doctor arrives on Earth in 1821 and discovers a plot by some time travelling Daleks to wipe out humanity in that year.

Discovering that the Daleks have based themselves on the island of St. Helena, the Doctor teams up with the exiled Napoleon Bonaparte.

In the end, the Daleks are stopped, but not before Napoleon bravely lays down his life. The Doctor, realizing that humanity of the early 19th Century is not ready to learn about aliens, convinces the authorities to cover up the truth about how Napoleon died (there is debate about this to this day).

If the BBC could scrounge up enough Japanese extras, perhaps they could have a story with Oda Nobunaga. The only question is whether it would take place during his conquest of Japan or back when he was known as the Fool of Owari.

Me on June 27, 2013:

How about Robin Hood, or perhaps the Doctor meets the person who inspired the legends.

Just call me Nostradamus

Congratulations!

Though I note, Nostradamus, that you were thinking in 'Robert Hode' terms rather than Robin being EXACTLY like the legends...(Not that I blame you, that was not only quite unforeseeable, it was also not a terribly good idea.)

Nostradamus was a fraud.

More unforgivably, he was also in a rubbish Doctor Who audio.

But his other half does a nice scarf.

Ah yes, the witty little knitter...

One historical personality nobody at the BBC will ever have the balls to put in a televised story, a certain Yeshua who travelled in Palestine circa 30 AD. And lets not even talk about a guy named Mohamed who did his little walkabout in Arabia 600 years after that.

And the Doctor obviously DID visit at least one of these characters a couple of times - 'I got the last room' (when talking about Christmas in Voyage of the Damned) and 'Between you and me, what really happened was -' (while complaining about Easter in Planet of the Dead). Unfortunately said adventures were obviously too boring for him to bother bringing the BBC cameras along.

about Mohamed - he took a nine year old wife. That's another reason for no BBC cameras.

I suppose the BBC cameras could always pop up BEFORE the unfortunate incident involving the 9-year-old. After all, Mohammed was about fifty at the time, wasn't he.

And frankly it's ABOUT TIME the Doctor interacted with SOME Muslims. In fact, in addition to its quite staggering number of other crimes, In The Forest of the Night managed to have most of the Coal Hill pupils being black, with the occasional white and no one who looked remotely Muslim despite it being in East London, with its massive Muslim population.

Is it too late to demand that Rita is resurrected and turned into a Companion? It was good enough for Strax, after all...

Islam forbids Mohammed being depicted in any way, shape or form. Remember that Danish paper and the uproar that caused. Remember what happened to Salmon Rushdie when he published Satanic Verses.

There is no way the BBC will want to open that hornets nest.

Yes, Star Trek did an episode in which the Greek Gods were revealed to be aliens. Marvel Comics does the same with the Norse Gods. However, those are religions that, for the most part, are no longer practiced.

I think it's best to avoid the current big religions, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and such. Some people take said religions very seriously.

Islam forbids Mohammed being depicted in any way, shape or form.

This reminds me of a French animated series called "Il était une fois ... l'Homme" (Once Upon a Time ... Man), who told the entire history of humanity, from its ape like beginnings to a postulated near future. When they were on the chapter of the beginnings of Islam, they of course had to show Mohamed, but they never showed his face, he was always depicted seen from behind. That was in 1978, when Islam was nowhere near as radical and fanatical as it is today.

Yes, Star Trek did an episode in which the Greek Gods were revealed to be aliens. Marvel Comics does the same with the Norse Gods. However, those are religions that, for the most part, are no longer practiced.

Stargate SG1 did the same thing, with the gods of ancient religions being revealed as various factions of aliens still in existence today. That was in fact the whole premise of the show. However, they never dared imply that Yahweh could have been one of those aliens. The last aliens they had to deal with, the Ori, bore a striking resemblance to either fundamentalist Christians or militant Muslims, even a fusion of both depending on how one chose to see them.

Best if Doctor Who stays away from the mainstream religions.

They could always use Tim McCree's religion of Nyssa-ism?

...set a thousand years after Terminus where there's a war between those who believe Nyssa is a goddess and those who feel she was merely mortal? ;-)

Islam forbids Mohammed being depicted in any way, shape or form.

Actually Islam doesn't forbid the depiction of the prophet. Some (predominantly Sunni) branches do forbid it, but there's no specific inherent rule against it. And the instances of uproar you cite weren't about the depiction per se, but the intentionally offensive nature of the images.

I think it's best to avoid the current big religions, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and such. Some people take said religions very seriously.

Judaism isn't that big, at least in terms of size (though obviously as antecedent to the world's two largest religions it punches above its weight).

And its worth noting that the one time that Doctor Who actually showed a real world religion in an actively positive light, its followers wrote in to complain.

They could always use Tim McCree's religion of Nyssa-ism?

...set a thousand years after Terminus where there's a war between those who believe Nyssa is a goddess and those who feel she was merely mortal? ;-)

With BOTH sides wearing only their underwear in tribute to their Goddess/Heroine...?

And its worth noting that the one time that Doctor Who actually showed a real world religion in an actively positive light, its followers wrote in to complain.

Ooh, when was that?

Planet of the Spiders.

Well, you can hardly blame 'em, what with the giant spiders and driving Pertwee to suicide and all...

Emily - With BOTH sides wearing only their underwear in tribute to their Goddess/Heroine...?

Let's hope it's not holy underwear. ;-)

Let's hope it's not holy underwear. ;-)

Groan!

Nyssa in her knickers

How about this 1930s child star?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QWPi8MtaQk

Darla Hood singing “I’m In The Mood For Love” from Little Rascals. The only thing wrong here is the little boy in black face.
This song and sway of the limbs make perhaps the most amazing performance I have seen from a child, and what an incredibly heartbreaking voice she has at - what, five years old? six years old? Take me away, Darla. You are the saddest, most beautiful little girl on film.

At yesterday's An Afternoon with Mark Gatiss and Friends in London, where PCap was one of the friends, he said that the historical person he would most like the Doctor to meet is Martin Luther King. He added, “I don't see why the Doctor shouldn't be involved in the civil rights struggle. ‘Those Ku Klux Klan guys – what's going on there?’”

My report on the afternoon, if anyone's interested, is here.

Thanks! Me LIKE Capaldi's bucket list...

Ronald d*ck-head Reagan as an android controlled by the Master?

Might be a bit of a let-down after the rather amusing Nixon business. Plus, I think it's about time the human race took responsibility for SOME of its most hideous mistakes instead of blaming aliens every time...

How about Clinton? He can have a relationship with Clara in the oval office....

how about Abe Lincoln?

How about one of these guys?

http://www.lyricsmania.com/the_mediocre_presidents_lyrics_simpsons_the.html

There is a historical personality I feel would make a good character in a Who story, Giordano Bruno. He lived at about the same time as Galileo, and he had notions about the universe that were centuries in advance to his time. He believed that the universe was infinite, that the stars were really distant suns, each with their own planets and exotic lifeforms. The Church ended up burning him at the stake for those beliefs. There is a statue of him in Rome today. In the context of Doctor Who, it would make sense that he could have acquired those remarkably advanced beliefs during an adventure with the Doctor. In fact, he might even make an outstanding Capaldi Doctor companion for a few episodes.

And then what - the Doctor dumps him back home to be BURNT ALIVE?

Of course, going by Binro the Heretic from Ribos Operation, it would be incredibly poignant.

Well, until Moffat discovered he couldn't face killing off a Companion and RESURRECTED him, of course...

And then what - the Doctor dumps him back home to be BURNT ALIVE?

Yeah, I did think about that, it certainly could be a problem.

And then what - the Doctor dumps him back home to be BURNT ALIVE?

Steve Lyons is pitching this as we speak.

Ah yes, I forgot we'd been there, done that in Witch Hunters - didn't Hartnell drag some old woman off to see The Crucible before dumping her back home for a good hanging on the grounds it would cheer her up (or something)?

Incidentally, am just reading Gareth Roberts' views on historical characters, use thereof: 'My spies tell me of internet rumblings about why the show doesn't visit more obscure historical eras and characters. Here is the answer. "This week, the Doctor and Martha meet Wilhelm Grav Slavata and discover aliens plotting to stop the Defenestration of Prague." Excited?'

OK Gareth, how about a story where Lyndon B. Johnson gets turned into a physical replica of the Daisy girl from the infamous Daisy ad. A grown man in the body of a female toddler... well the funny just writes itself!

Incidentally, am just reading Gareth Roberts' views on historical characters, use thereof: 'My spies tell me of internet rumblings about why the show doesn't visit more obscure historical eras and characters. Here is the answer. "This week, the Doctor and Martha meet Wilhelm Grav Slavata and discover aliens plotting to stop the Defenestration of Prague." Excited?'

Loads more than I was by 'The Shakespeare Code'.

It was a JOYOUS CLASSIC, you philistine!

I'd like to see a decent and respectful treatment of voodoo, that isn't used as a cheap way of turning hapless male protagonists into women or baby girls. (i deeply regret leaving my floppy disk full of downloaded Spells 'R' Us gender bender fiction where my brother could find it).

I'd like to see a decent and respectful treatment of voodoo

We already have The Christmas Invasion. And all the Faction Paradox novels and audios.

Did you know that philandering is a serious crime in the voodoo practicing societies of Hati?

Someone used that for a piece of fiction - a vengeful wife uses voodoo to turn her cheating husband into a baby and gives him to his mistress!

Oh, and White Darkness probably treated Voodoo respectfully. It was just too boring to REMEMBER.

A meeting with Neville Chamberlain... not just Munich but the Doctor would have to be very humane about the stomach cancer that killed Chamberlain:

Neville Chamberlain: You say that after the war begins, my government falls. What becomes of me afterwards?

The Doctor: Sir, I am afraid that i cannot remember.

He wouldn't come up with a polite lie.

He say something hilarious hilariously wicked, like Matt telling Nixon 'Give my regards to Frost' or Tom telling Tegan he'd seen a little of her aunt...

The Master/Missy inspires Squeaky Fromme to try and kill Gerald Ford. BBC suddenly in hot water with Americans?

Except Ms. Fromme is still alive and might not be too thrilled about this.

Yeah. The closer in time you get to the present, the more often that the most interesting figures are still alive.

The Doctor could come to 19th Century Canada and meet Sir John A. Macdonald, our first Prime Minister.

Didn't a Canadian PM hold seances with his dead mother?

The doctor can discover the guy was an alien?

Has the city of Adelaide or the state of South Australia been referenced in DW?

An obvious reference the Doctor or Tegan could make in Big Finish Who is to the famous Beaumont children disappearance (en(.)wikipedia(.)org(/)wiki(/)Beaumont_children_disappearance) - presumed abducted and murdered, they were never found and the person responsible never was caught. If BF ever gets the rights to Madame Vastra, they can have her deal with him the same way TV Who had her deal with Jack the Ripper.

Alternatively Tegan could refer to the Adelaide Oval having been renamed Ratcliffe-Gordon Park (en(.)wikipedia(.)org(/)wiki(/)Disappearance_of_Joanne_Ratcliffe_and_Kirste_Gordon)

Didn't a Canadian PM hold seances with his dead mother?

Yeah, William Lyon Mackenzie King.

Apparently, his ghost haunts his estate of Kingsmere, near Ottawa (where I live).

I've always meant to go check that out.

Tsar Nicholas II and his family.

You have SO got to listen to Serpent Crest: Tsar Wars. It's far and away the best of the fifteen Magrs-penned Fourth Doctor audios - which isn't to say it's not rubbish - but it's basically ALL ABOUT your beloved Romanovs.

Come to think of it, there was also a Cousin Anastasia in the Faction Paradox universe. Who tried to break away from the Eleven-Day Empire to create a Thirteen-Day Republic...

The Big Bopper is The Day The Music Died's equiv of Gilligan's Island's "and the rest" and was turned into a punchline by Futurama, but maybe his only hit song could be inspired by the Doctor.

How about the extinction of the Neanderthals?

Trouble with that is that it wasn't a single event but a gradual exertion of dominance by Homo Sapiens over a period of about five thousand years. Would be a bloody long episode!

I suppose it could be done about the last days of the very last Neanderthal.

We've already GOT that. It's called Ghost Light.

You know, the Neanderthals may not really have gone extinct. They just got assimilated into the Homo Sapiens population. Humans of european descent have about 5% Neanderthal genes in their DNA, which is pretty much the ratio of Neanderthal to Sapiens population at the time. Wave after wave of modern humans swept through Europe as their populations were increasing in Africa and Asia, and they did what comes naturally, breeding together and diluting the small Neanderthal genome into the much larger Sapiens one. Small pockets of pure Neanderthal held on until about 40000 years ago, the last known individuals having lived in the southern regions of Spain.

Yeah, that's one of those moments of discovery that made PERFECT sense to me, scientific ignoramus though I am. For decades (if not centuries) it was all 'Oh, we humans wiped out those poor Neanderthals' and I was thinking 'What, WITHOUT raping them all first? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!' and then...oh look!

I seriously doubt any Homo Sapiens COULD have raped a Neanderthal woman. Our prehistoric cousins were three times stronger than we are. Any Sapiens foolish enough to attack a Neanderthal would have had his bloody ass handed back to him, quite literally.

THREE TIMES stronger...?

How the HELL did we wipe 'em out?

Has Jim Jones/Jonestown ever been mentioned in Who? Maybe the Doctor could have been a friend of Congressman Ryan?

How about the mysterious Green Children of Woolpit.

In the 12th Century, two mysterious children appeared in the English village of Woolpit. Their skin had a mysterious green shade and they spoke a strange language.

Some think that they were aliens. Perhaps the Doctor can look into this and find out that they were.

Because that worked so well when Gary Russell did it.

Wonder if Tim would like to see a DW resolution to the Beaumont Children where the Doctor whisked Jane, Arnna and Grant off in Ol' Blue or they were disappeared by Et Hamster?

Natalie, there is a BIG difference between a Medieval legend and an open Missing Persons case.

If this is another one of your attempts at humour, Natalie, it's not only not funny, but it's also damned insensitive.

Although their bodies were never found, it's most likely that the Beaumont Children were abducted and murdered.

Both their parents are still alive. Can you just imagine how it feels that, for almost fifty years, not knowing what happened to their children. There can never be closure, not even funerals, because there are no bodies to bury.

Half a century of not knowing, I can't imagine what it must be like for those poor people.

So no, Natalie, I would not endorse a Doctor Who episode centered around the mystery of the Beaumont Children. That would be insensitive and cruel to their parents and other family members. And I don't think anyone else here would endorse it either, not even Emily, who's dislike of children is not exactly a state secret.

I think that, in future, Natalie, you should think before you type (I think Rodney already gave you this advice somewhere here). Posts like this make you look like an insensitive idiot.

You're right but DW has referred to Jack the Ripper and he did a lot worse than disappear his victims?

I'd like to see Jane Austen. it's a sad fact, that, to survive in Regency England, most women had to be less like Lizzie Bennet and more like Caroline Bingley.

Jane Austen was pretty dull in that Companion Chronicle she appeared in. Plus, we've only just got rid of The Impossible Girl, do you really want her to pop up in the middle of your Regency story and start pranking people?

And if Jane Austen HAD met the Doctor why the HELL isn't he reflected in any of her books? How could any author resist basing a few characters on Himself?

(And don't start comparing Darcy and the Sixth Doctor. Such a comparison exists only in the warped minds of JNT and Colin Baker.)

We need the 'Old Harry's Game' version of Jane "You're dead meat, ••••-face!" Austen in Doctor Who.

We - need - WHAT!

The BBC Radio comedy series 'Old Harry's Game' is set in hell and features a variety of deceased celebrities, including Jane Austen who is depicted a violent, foul-mouthed psychopath of whom even the demons are terrified.

Blimey. And I bet Who thought it was being so bold, depicting Marco Polo as a bit of a git...

What about a guest spot by a famous singer of the past?

Anyone specific in mind?

Having just re-watched a Murdoch Mysteries where a young Gladys Smith is called "Mary Pickford" at a point in her life where she hadn't adopted that stage name yet, I was wondering if DW had ever done something similar with historical figures?

Here's some people for this thread... Julie d'Aubigny, the Chevalier d'Eon, Sayyida Al-Hurra, the Brothers Gracchi, John R. Brinkley, Dr. John Hunter, Gen. Smedley Butler, Artemisia I of Caria, Catullus, Stagecoach Mary, Nancy Wake, Milunka Savic...

For all we know, d'Eon could have been lurking in the background in The Girl in the Fireplace.

Was s/he that annoying person in the Faction Paradox Protocols?

The Doctor and Bill could witness the last words of King Edward II. "I always said that Roger Mortimer was a pain in the - - - AAARGHH!!!".

There's no way the Doctor would let his Companion get Ideas by taking her anywhere NEAR Isabella the She-Wolf...

The Doctor meets the young Queen Victoria and, for some reason, she reminds him of someone.

The ungrateful werewolf-infected ••••• who exiled him and set up Torchwood?

Uh, I was talking about Jenna's new Queen Victoria show.

Another joke falls flat here. Tough room.

Uh, I was talking about Jenna's new Queen Victoria show.

I did realise that, I just wasn't gonna give an inch to some non-Who show she BETRAYED AND ABANDONED us for -

- Yeah, OK, so it WAS probably past time she left, but that's not much consolation when you're facing BILL and NARDOLE.

How about Johanna living in the Whoniverse?

I think it'd be very interesting to see the Doctor land in the Confederacy and meet Jefferson Davis. We rarely see stories from the Confederate perspective.

Yeah, FOR SOME REASON Doctor Who seldom sides with slave-owners.

(Unless they're ROMAN of course, in which case they TOTALLY get a free pass.)

Well The War Games did include some Civil War soldiers. It even acknowledged that Britain was supportive of the Confederacy. Partially this was due to the South being a more desirable trading partner than the North. But mostly it was the schadenfreude derived from watching the United States collapse on itself.

SLAVE: After lunch, can i whip you? CONFEDERATE: No!

I'd like to see Donald Trump discover alien life and try to build a wall between Earth and every other planet in the universe. It's up to the fourth Doctor and Leela to stop him before he 'makes space great again'.

Anyone else picturing the Doctor - ANY Doctor - taking one look at Trump, saying 'There are some situations which are just too stupid to be allowed to continue' and calmly shoving him off the top of the nearest Trump Tower?

Well, I am. The Doctor would probably be more creative than that though.

How about the Doctor has an adventure with Alexander The Great?

Alexander never appeared on the show. Has he been in any novels or audios?

He's been in the Farewell Great Macedon Lost Story audio. It was lovely. (Give or take the Doctor declaring his belief in the Christian deity.) It totally felt like a real Hartnell Historical, and the best of 'em to boot. Whoever decided not to bother making it should be hunted down and hung, drawn and quartered.

So this was supposed to have been made for the TV series, but never was?

At least it finally got made. Better an Audio than nothing, I guess.


Give or take the Doctor declaring his belief in the Christian deity

Why would that even be mentioned. Alexander lived about 300 years before Christ was even born.

And why would the Doctor believe in an Earth deity. A Gallfreyan one, perhaps, but an Earth one!?

Why would that even be mentioned. Alexander lived about 300 years before Christ was even born.

The Christian god is also the Jewish one, and THAT predates Alexander by many centuries.

So this was supposed to have been made for the TV series, but never was?

Yup.

At least it finally got made. Better an Audio than nothing, I guess.

I don't know. Previously I was just in agony over all the stories they made and MURDERED, now I've got ANOTHER six episodes to be anguished about never being able to watch...

Give or take the Doctor declaring his belief in the Christian deity

Why would that even be mentioned. Alexander lived about 300 years before Christ was even born.

It was before they'd even bumped into Alex, or anyone else. Susan decided (apropos of absolutely nothing except hearing some nice music) that they'd all died and gone to heaven. 'How on Earth could we go to heaven, child, I don't know the way' the Doctor responds, bizarrely. 'You Doctor - knowing the way to heaven!' laughs Ian. 'I will one day, my boy, when this frail old body is finally summoned by the Almighty' says the Doctor, mind-bogglingly forgetting about regeneration and, of course, the fact THERE IS NO LIFE AFTER DEATH.

(Obviously when I say this would have made an all-time classic I'm assuming they'd've cut that bit.)

And why would the Doctor believe in an Earth deity. A Gallfreyan one, perhaps, but an Earth one!?

Either they were assuming that the Doc had been converted to the One True God during one of his interminable trips to Earth (though admittedly the only places that he stayed for months - the French Revolution, Marco Polo's China and Swinging Sixties London - aren't exactly god-bothering hotspots) or of course they were assuming that Gallifrey loomed (or whatever) its own Baby Jesus long before Earth got one of its own.

At that stage, they hadn't decided for certain whether the Doctor was an alien or a human from a far-future Earth colony world.

IDIOTS.

At that stage, they hadn't decided for certain whether the Doctor was an alien or a human from a far-future Earth colony world.

I don't believe anyone ever suggested that the Doctor came from a "far-future Earth colony world". Documentation (and the pilot episode) generally posits that he's from "the future", in a vague and detail-free way. There's an unspoken assumption that he's human, but in the series at this time "human" is an equally vague term that's as much about physical appearance as it is about planetary origins.

"Earth colony" worlds are also very thin on the ground in the series until the 1970s and don't seem to have figured much in the production teams' thoughts in the 1960s except in a rather Dan Dare-like "in a hundred years we'll be living on Mars and Venus" way. I don't think this idea would have been on their radar at all.

Didn't the unaired pilot say that the Doctor came from the 49th Century?

Yes, but see my comments above about the general assumption that the Doctor comes "from the future". The idea that he's from a "far-future Earth colony world" is far too specific for a series that didn't really bring the idea of "Earth colonies" into focus until after they'd explicitly settled on having the Doctor being an alien from another planet.

do you think they should've done a "ballet episode" of Doctor Who? that's a plot where one of a tv show's characters decide they want to try ballet classes. I think they wouldn't be able to resist the cliche of a male companion or the Doctor ending up clad in female ballet attire?

How about the Doctor meeting Caligula. That would be an interesting episode.

Has that happened in any Audio or novel, Emily?

Disappointingly not. I remembered the Doctor attending a Roman orgy in The Gallifrey Chronicles but it turns out that was in 40 BC.

I cheated and looked at TARDIS Wikia and apparently Lucie Miller (audio Companion)'s claiming to have met Caligula whilst travelling with the Meddling Monk. Which certainly doesn't qualify as the Doctor meeting Caligula.

I think even the Doctor would draw the line at meeting Caligula.

Oh, I dunno, once you've got on first-name terms with dear old Mao (forty-three million dead in the Great Leap Forward alone, let's not even start THINKING about the Cultural Revolution), you're not really in a position to draw lines.

And, after all, some cats eat their young too and we don't consider THEM any the less adorable for it. (Admittedly by 'we' I might possibly mean 'I'.)

And the Doctor got on with Nero like a house, um, city on fire. He found the prospect of Nero throwing people to the lions utterly hilarious, even when - credit where it's due - 'people' included HIM.

I wonder what Caligula would make of the Doctor.

It would probably depend on WHICH Doctor. Grovelling royalist establishment figure Pertwee would probably get on marvellously well with him; Tom, Capaldi or Eccy would probably DISMEMBER him.

It might also depend on Caligula's mood. Not the most stable of individuals, I believe. He might be praising the Doctor as a god one minute and ordering his soldiers to turn him into a hat the next.

The Doctor investigates the fate of Colonel Percy Fawcett.

Colonel Fawcett vanished in the Amazon jungle in 1925, while looking for a legendary city of gold.

It might also depend on Caligula's mood. Not the most stable of individuals, I believe. He might be praising the Doctor as a god one minute and ordering his soldiers to turn him into a hat the next.

True, but some Doctors would be really good at gauging Caligula's mood and playing up to it if they wanted to keep their skin intact. Of course, Troughton would get bored with this REALLY fast and hit the Emperor with a 'Now I know you're mad' a la Klieg.

The Doctor investigates the fate of Colonel Percy Fawcett.

Colonel Fawcett vanished in the Amazon jungle in 1925, while looking for a legendary city of gold.

That doesn't strike me as an enormously mysterious mystery, I mean, someone wandering round the AMAZON JUNGLE without having a clue where they're going...

Yes, but Fawcett had jungle experience, which makes the mystery even more deeper. Perhaps he met with nasty aliens...

Is Alistair Cooke too soon a subject for a "celebrity historical".

Depends on whether you're talking about the journalist or the Baron Lexden. I'm guessing the former, since the latter is still alive.

Yeah I'm talking about the Letter from America guy.

Thomas Alva Edison but as villain, threatening the Doctor to reveal the secrets of his TARDIS to patent it as his invention or he will order his thugs to murder their companions. After all, Edison electrocuted several animals even an elephant to "prove" that Tesla's inventions are dangerous.

The second, fourth, eleventh Doctors (and perhaps the seventh Doctor of Season 24) teaching Patch Adams that humor is a good medicine.

River Song giving some useful advice to John Cleland to help him write Fanny Hill.

A child Chris Carter has a encounter with small gray aliens and the Doctor, accompanied by a rational and skeptical Rory along with a believer and "spooky" Amy, are going to save him.

The TARDIS arrives at the BBC the first day they're scheduled to wipe old film reels. The Doctor tries to persuade them not to, but, orders being orders, they don't listen to him, regardless of the authority in his voice. Instead, he takes the films in his TARDIS with the plan to materialize around 2005, when the DVD lines of those programs are in full stride, but he overshoots and drops them off at what's left of the BBC in 2125.

2125 - are you MAD?!

Want NOW!

How about Elvis Presley, only in the Whoniverse, he wasn't a singer. Elvis owning a chain of doughnut stores?

"Y'know Doctor? I could've been King. But, maybe I am King. King Doughnut."

Wasn't it THE SINGER Elvis Presley that Ten n'Rose were attempting to see in Fear Her?

Or aliens kidnapped the real Elvis and left behind a cloned body which died.

(Really the one thing I hate about people claiming Elvis is alive is ignoring the fact there was a body.)

(Really the one thing I hate about people claiming Elvis is alive is ignoring the fact there was a body.)

First law of conspiracy theories, dismiss or ignore all evidence contradicting the theory.

How about Cat Stevens in DW?
"Release the hostages, Master, or i start singing Matthew and Son!"

I dunno anything about Matthew and Son, but the Master's quite happy to dance to the Scissor Sisters and sing Hey Missy You So Fine so it would have to be REALLY scary...

The Doctor meets Vlad The Impaler.

See Fifth Doctor audio Son of the Dragon.

"Seeing" it being preferable to "hearing" it?

Well, obviously I'm not gonna recommend to people that they actually LISTEN to a Big Finish audio, what sort of sick freak do you think I AM!

You don't really want an answer to that question, do you?

what does she object to? the sick or the freak?

Every time I come up with an idea, I find out that some Audio has beaten me to it!

Not true: You marrying Nyssa hasn't been in an audio ;)

Though some might suggest her engagement to Magnus Greel in The Butcher of Brisbane may come close...;)

Ha! Tim McCree killing 10,000 people? I can live with that! ;)

Not if you're one of the 10,000 you wouldn't...

Just work at a lighthouse and take bribes, Tim'll spare you. ;-)

The person that was engaged to Magnus Greel was the ARN. See the new entry in the Nitcentral Encyclopedia for more details.

KAM: Just work at a lighthouse and take bribes, Tim'll spare you. ;-)

Vince: The person I'm really looking for, wink wink, is Mr. Bribe, wink wink.

I don't think that Nyssa and I qualify as historical people.

Vince might, as he's from the beginning of the 20th Century. However, he's not a famous historical character though.

Matthew Waterhouse cast as Harvey Weinstein?

Of course not. He didn't live long enough.

Ooops! Too soon?

At least, given recent events, the Doctor has never name dropped Robert Mugabe...!

Has the Doctor ever met Dick Turpin? He never did on the show, but what about novels and audios.

At least, given recent events, the Doctor has never name dropped Robert Mugabe...!

a) That's because the Doctor never, EVER, goes to Africa, the racist git.

(OK, so he accidentally dropped in on some Ghanaian Festival, but this was so unlikely he LITERALLY BELIEVED that he was running around INSIDE THE HUMAN SUBCONSCIOUS rather than AFRICA...)

b) What d'you mean, RECENT? Mugabe has mellowed enormously in his old age. There are rumours he very nearly accepted his defeat by Morgan Tsvangarai in the last elections before deciding sod THAT for a game of soldiers, and, OK, so he ate a zoo for his ninety-first birthday but that doesn't really compare with slaughtering Matabeleland or deliberately smashing his country back to the cholera-stricken hyper-inflationed Dark Ages for defying him in a referendum. Though obviously you can't expect the giraffes to feel that way.

Has the Doctor ever met Dick Turpin? He never did on the show, but what about novels and audios.

He...sort of did in Sixth Doctor audio The Doomwood Curse. (Sorry for the unsatisfactory answer but it was a VERY unsatisfactory audio.)

if the Doctor was real, i could see Seven being involved in current events in Zimbabwe.

Well, Emily, I did ask.

How about Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (real names, Robert Leroy Parker and Harry Alonzo Longabaugh)? The is an ongoing mystery as to their finale fate.

History says that Butch and Sundance perished in a gunfight, in Bolivia, in 1908. However, there are no first hand accounts of that actually happening.

In fact, there is evidence to support that Butch not only survived, but returned to the U.S. in the early 1920's and lived until the 1940's Many family members and friends of Butch did say that, yes, it was him.

As to Sundance, there is silent as to his fate. However, if Butch survived, then it's likely that he did too.

It was much easier to disappear back then, than it is now.

So, how about we get the Doctor involved. Her Companion asks her to investigate what really happened to Butch and Sundance.

Of course, there'll be aliens too!

How about we get the Doctor involved. Her Companion asks her to investigate

The casual use of 'her' in these circumstances still has me grinning all over my face.

The thought of any more American Western-type figures (at least, I have the feeling Butch and Sundance are American Western-type figures?) after Doc Holliday and, um, those other ones from Gunfighters...not so much.

The casual use of 'her' in these circumstances still has me grinning all over my face.

Yeah, I had JODIE in mind for this.


I have the feeling Butch and Sundance are American Western-type figures

Kind of. They actually lived in the twilight years of the American West. Both men were around 40 when the supposedly died in Bolivia. So by the time they came of age, the Old West was on its way out.

The Doctor drops in at a Swiss villa, in 1816 and meets Lord Bryon, and his friend, Percy Shelly, and Percy's young wife, Mary.

2018 is the 200th Anniversary of the publication of Frankenstein, after all.

Already happened. See Audios: Eighth Doctor: The Company of Friends: Mary's Story. Whereupon she joins the Doc in the TARDIS for three incredibly dreary adventures.

Dammit!

Stupid audios have scooped me again.

If I wanted to be mean, I’d say an episode should star Ronald Reagan after 1994, but I’m not mean, so I totally didn’t say that.

Have they had Bram Stoker in anything?

Yeah, he was in Jago & Litefoot's eleventh box set.

Admittedly I had to look it up on TARDIS Wikia, I literally have no memory of this.

And these events caused Stoker to write Dracula?

Anyone heard this Audio?

Of course I've HEARD it, I just don't remember anything about it. And TARDIS Wikia is a bit vague on the subject of whether or not it's the Jago & Litefoot or some Who comic or other that inspired Stoker.

TARDIS Wikia leaves a lot to be desired. Some of the entries are woefully incomplete.

Give it a bit longer, it's not like it has OUR advantage of surviving for very nearly twenty years and counting...

Has there ever been a story where the Doctor fights a bent cop?
Apart from Autons and Lytton's duplicates that were posing as policemen?

I get the feeling there was a bent copper in The Hollow Men (Seventh Doctor PDA) but I can't be 100% sure cos frankly it's not the kind of book one REMEMBERS.

Hopefully, someday, TARDIS Wiki will be complete.

I absolutely don't want it complete.

Just up-to-date, thank you.

BLOODY good point.

Be careful what you wish for...

Sorry, up-to-date is what I meant.

The Doctor meets Ned Kelly.

The Doctor meets Ned Kelly.

Jodie: "Oh, d amn, I'm still in Glenrowan!"

My suggestion for an historical was published on Tumblr - http://theconfessionsofawhovian.tumblr.com/post/179759663244

John Denver? Mama Cass?

- N

Uh, these are not historical people.

Mama Cass has been dead for 45 years, Denver for 22.

I hate to be the Great Halprin, but you have have a strange idea of how recent something is.

That's not what I meant.

I mean when I say "Historical personality", I mean Richard III, Napoleon Bonaparte, Winston Churchill, etc. Movers and shakers of history.

Talented as they were, John Denver or Mama Cass do not apply here.

There shouldn't be anything wrong with the Doctor meeting a famous figure of historical pop culture.

Except the relatives of that singer might take issue and file lawsuits.

I don't think it's possible to slander the dead?

An episode with John Denver, a sequel to The Sun Makers where it turns out that his song Sunshine on My Shoulders is the key to solving the Problem of the Week?

The Doctor lands during the Summer of Love and meets Mama Cass and in a sequel to The Mind Robber, Cass's song Dream a Little Dream of Me reveals that the Doctor is still under the control of the Master of the Land?

Still, this could open up some potential legal problems, if the relatives of the singers got mad.

Best to avoid it.

How about CS Lewis?
The Doctor has a little friend who inspires the character of Lucy Pevensie?

Who's already tried messing around with C S Lewis (The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe). Spectacularly unsuccessfully. (I seem to remember a rubbish comic as well.)

Narnia Web fancast Who actors in a hypothetical adaption of all of the Chronicles:

Tom Baker - voice of Aslan
Peter Davison - Drinian
Colin Baker - Father Christmas
Sylvester McCoy - The Hermit Of The Southern March
Paul McGann - Mr Tumnus
Christopher Eccleston - Miraz
David Tennant - Frank the Cabby/King Frank
Matt Smith - Rilian
Peter Capaldi - Trumpkin
Jodie Whittaker - The Lady Of The Green Kirtle
William Hartnell - Gumpas
Patrick Troughton - King Lune
Jon Pertwee - Uncle Andrew
John Hurt - voice of Bree

Some of these actors are dead. How "hypothetical" are we talking about here?

the list included the dead actors. it was a "if you could cast, living or dead?"

I did a Rex and Hannah Chronicles story that involved C.S. Lewis (Convergence), some years back.

(hat-tip to The Simpsons)

CS Lewis: "And you can call me C! And you can call me S!"

Aslan: "That was funny for about three seconds!"

Sad to meet the Bronte sisters, knowing that none of them would make it to age 40.

Yeah, well, The Ninth Doctor Chronicles: The Window on the Moor was so bad it has you actively wishing Emily Bronte and everyone else associated with it would just die already.

The oldest a Bronte sister ever got was 38, and that was Charlotte.

She died of complications due to pregnancy, which was sadly common in those days for someone getting pregnant that late in life (unlike now, where women can have babies in their 40's, and, some cases, their 50's).

I read once that The Gunfighters was the last story to feature a character who actually existed historically until Mark of the Rani. Unless you count Kenneth Kendall in The War Machines or Alex McIntosh in Day of the Daleks. Oh, and Blackbeard, who turns up as a fictional character in The Mind Robber, despite being someone who really did exist. As did Cyrano de Bergerac, in the same story.

The Doctor could also meet Jane Austin, another author who died young. She was only 41 when the cancer killed her. Back then (the early 1800's), there was no way to detect it, let alone treat it. The poor woman must have died in agony.

You know, if I had a TARDIS, I'd round up all the famous author who died young, bring them to our time, where they could be treated and cured, and then return them to their own times. Imagine what other work they might have produced, had they had the chance.

The Doctor could also meet Jane Austin

Eleventh Doctor Chronicles: False Coronets.

Explained away Clara's snog with Austen (Magician's Apprentice) by claiming it was to cover up their spying or some such ridiculous homophobic excuse.

Jane Austin also appeared in en episode of Legends Of Tomorrow, a few weeks back.

How about the Doctor meeting Nicola Tesla:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

Should be a "k" not a "c" in his name.

Once had an idea for a fan fic with the Doctor and Ace at the 1893 Columbian Exposition in Chicago, meeting Frank and Maud Baum, with the Doctor and Frank having to rescue Maud and Ace from serial killer H.H. Holmes. Cybermen would figure in it, giving Baum his idea for the Tin Woodman, and Ace letting it slip that her real name was Dorothy and she met the Doctor after being swept away from her home by a temporal whirlwind. (This was before I knew Baum actually named his character after a deceased niece.) Never developed the story beyond a few notes.

Or just rewrite the Wizard of Oz.

Ace as Dorothy
K-9 as Toto
Romana as Glinda
Son of Mine as the Scarecrow
Cyberbrigadier as the Tin Man
A Tharil as the Cowardly Lion
The Doctor as the Wizard
The Rani as the Wicked Witch
Tetraps as the Winged Monkeys

Almost writes itself, really.

Well, we just had Ada Lovelace on Who.

Tragically, she died at just 36 of uterine cancer. It was a slow and painful way to go.

Of course, if she were living now, she's have a chance of living with chemo and/or surgery.

However, that wasn't possible in the early 19th Century. In those days, if you got cancer, you may as well start writing your will.

Of course, JODIE couldn't tell her that, or offer to save her life.

Well, we just had Ada Lovelace on Who.

She's already met Tom in BF's The Enchantress of Numbers.

I did not know that.

Introducing Brezhnev to the internet would actually make a good DW story.

In Spyfall Part Two, Emily wrote:

Noor Inayat Khan.

She doesn't get a happy ending either.


**a trip to Wikipedia later**

Yikes, she does not. The Nazis captured her, sent her to Dachau (one of their death camps), where she was tortured (and possibly raped numerous times) and eventually shot.

Both Noor and Ada did not live to see 40. And no doubt JODIE was well aware of that. Perhaps that is why she seemed so sad when she said good-bye to them both, she knew their eventual fates. The reason JODIE couldn't save either one is because history decreed their deaths, and you can't change that.

The reason JODIE couldn't save either one is because history decreed their deaths, and you can't change that.

Unless you really, really feel like it. Matt changed Kazran's fate - after he'd seen it with his own eyes which you'd THINK would have solidified it in the Web of Time. Tennant changed Adelaide's fate despite it being A FIXED POINT! Matt, Tennant n'Hurt changed Gallifrey's fate which you'd think would be THE most important event in the universe since that Terminus ship blew up and NOT the sort of thing you can screw around with for fun.

(Ah. Maybe THAT explains...

SPOILERS FOR SPYFALL 2...

What happened in Spyfall 2. History re-asserting itself?)

Of course, Ada and Noor were real life historical figures, who's fates were known. It was pretty much set in stone.

Mind you, another show, called Timeless did feature historical characters dying differently then they originally did. However, that show was the exception, not the rule.

Enid Blyton: Best selling children’s writer with such creations as Noddy and The Famous Five under her belt. Maybe a story could be done with her as a child where the Doctor has to save her from becoming a Chosen One of the Fairies from Torchwood? That or she gets kidnapped by a group of sentient toys?

How about JODIE! meeting the GOOD obscenely wealthy U.S. presidents, notably the two Roosevelts and Kennedy?

The Doctor to meet Carl Sagan. There's a speech in Rings Of Akhaten where Matt tells Clara about how we're all elements of suns that died billions of years ago, which lifts some of Carl's most famous work. A story where Carl gets involved scientifically would be great. He shouldn't be inspired by, or informed by, The Doctor though. Human genius and bravery is remarkable enough without a buffoonish Time Lord in the mix...

They could travel for billions and billions of years...

The Doctor gets involved in the fate of Henry Hudson.

Since his body was never found, that gives the writers plenty of wiggle room.

Who?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Hudson

Have they had Bram Stoker in anything?

Yeah, he was in Jago & Litefoot's eleventh box set.

Admittedly I had to look it up on TARDIS Wikia, I literally have no memory of this.

And these events caused Stoker to write Dracula?

Anyone heard this Audio?

Of course I've HEARD it, I just don't remember anything about it. And TARDIS Wikia is a bit vague on the subject of whether or not it's the Jago & Litefoot or some Who comic or other that inspired Stoker.

Have duly relistened to said audio, Bram encounters a spaceship full of blood-sucking leeches, doesn't think the public will be interested, Jago suggests he write about vampires instead (Jago's second-best friend being one, and all)...

I Am the Master claims it was all down to Bram meeting the Pizza-Faced Master, though.

I think William Blake deserves to meet the Doctor in a story far better than The Pit.