Let's get it QUITE CLEAR:

Whatever the •••• that John Hurt thing is, it will get its own thread in 'Doctors' OVER MY DEAD BODY.

Oh, come on, Please?

Don't forget he was in that film where he was made up to look exactly like Matt Smith, as visible in the second photo on this page:

http://www.altfg.com/blog/classics/anne-coates-legendary-film-editor/

Let's just see what the Anniversary show will reveal.

CHRIS in the 'New Series: Season Seven: The Name of the Doctor' thread:

As for John Hurt, I'm kind of presuming he's Doctor Zero - the younger version of William Hartnell's doctor, and whatever he did led The Doctor to steal the Tardis and run, and is enough for the Doctor to see him as a separate part of himself.

If it was THAT great a crime, surely it would have been mentioned in Troughton's trial?

Plus he doesn't LOOK like a younger Hartnell.

I think even if I hadn't known John Hurt was in this before, I would have recognized his voice.

Like David Warner, Mr. Hurt is well known to science fiction fans. He played Kane, the poor fellow who had an alien burst out of his chest in ALIEN (1979).

He played Winston Smith in a great movie adaptation of the novel, 1984, that came out that year.

I see Emily's been shuffling posts around again..

John Hurt also did the voice of the dragon in the series Merlin.

What I did, I did without choice, in the name of peace and sanity

Those are the words spoken by the John Hurt Doctor. As he speaks them, he is standing on a devastated world with an orange sky. He looks like he has just gone through Hell. He sounds like someone who had to do something horrible, to put a stop to something even more horrible. I think the thing he did without choice, in the name of peace and sanity is put an end to the Time War. I think the story of how it happened will be the story told in the 50th anniversary special.

Agreed that he's the Time War Doctor. I don't know how much we'll actually SEE of him 'Seizing the Moment', though. We already KNOW why the Doctor pressed that (big red, no doubt) button. We don't want to be wasting time with that Hurt interloper when we have MATT AND TENNANT AND ROSE to worship.

Also, the contrast with Tennant after HE wiped the Time Lords out - 'Yippee! I'M ALIVE!!!' rather than 'I'm unwothy of the good name of Doctor, why don't I top myself' - would be quite embarrassing.

Also, it's so SPECIEST. The Doc's committed genocide plenty of times, why should it be so unspeakably dreadful just because it's those boring genocidal chauvinists?

Also, the contrast with Tennant after HE wiped the Time Lords out - 'Yippee! I'M ALIVE!!!' rather than 'I'm unwothy of the good name of Doctor, why don't I top myself' - would be quite embarrassing.

The thing is, when Tennant Doctor did that, he did not "break the promise". He was just tying up a loose end so to speak, and protecting the Universe in the process. What John Hurt Doctor did must have been much darker and of a totally different nature.

It'll be interesting to see how Hurty does in the special. At 73, John Hurt is as old as Richard Hurndall was in 1983.

I find it remarkable that they've been able to keep Jonh Hurt playing another incarnation of the Doctor a secret. Not only that, as far as I know, there were no rumors, no leaks, no badly timed tweets, no spoilers, nothing. Kudos!

Of course, we all know the implications of the existence of this other Doctor, reinforced by some of the comments made by the Great Intelligence. The current incarnation of our favorite Timelord is not the 11th, it is the 12th, and the next one will be the Valeyard.

It'll be interesting to see how Hurty does in the special. At 73, John Hurt is as old as Richard Hurndall was in 1983.

Lets hope things don't turn out for Hurt the same way they did for Hurndall.

So I was thinking things over about the Hurt 'Doctor', and had some ideas. Spoilers ahoy.

It's pretty clear that Hurt comes between 8 and 9 and has something to do with the Time War. We also know that in some respects the personality of each doctor is a reaction against his previous incarnation, meaning that whatever Hurt did is likely to have been impacted by the events of McGann's tenure.

Of course, this poses a problem- the TV film is the only thing that's completely confirmed as Canon ATM (and even then there's some bits which often get ignored). However, with all the references to the audio episodes that have been bandied around, I wonder if it's an indication that Moffat is going to give the 8 fans a measure of recompense through a single significant feature: The November episode and the Hurt 'Doctor' will be driven by events from the Big Finish productions, implicitly making them a Canon set of adventures in at least the broad strokes. This gives a very good situation for what could be described as the 'start of darkness' arc for the Doctor- the most recent episodes in his personal timeline are the essential 1+2 trilogy (with a seperate adventure inbetween 1 and 2) Relative Dimensions/Lucie Miller/To do Death which cover the Doctor's reunion with Susan and her half-human son Alex (played fittingly enough by McGann's own son Jake), his then companion Lucy Miller leaving the Tardis to travel with Alex in 22nd century Earth and then a deadly plague and second Dalek invasion of Earth which first leaves Lucy crippled and partially blind, and then results in the deaths of both Lucy and Alex. That arc ends with the 8th Doctor suffering what sounds like a virtual breakdown over his inability to help Lucy when she tried to reach out to him, and if the set of four episodes following it for the Doctor's chronology are anything to tell by it leads on pretty much straight into the Time War.

So, lets presume that the Time War starts, 8 is involved for quite a while, and eventually regenerates. Take the massive personal tragedy of To the Death, possibly added to with other losses in the war itself (Leela? Some other companions?), and a general weariness with the War and sense that the Time Lords are sinking down to the Dalek's level (after all the Meddling Monk was instrumental to the Dalek's plan in Lucie Miller/To the Death), and we get Hurt, a 'Doctor' who is convinced that both sides must be wiped out to end the war, and quite possibly is determined that he should not have a companion because it's too dangerous/he's lost too many already.

At this point, the difficulty becomes what actually is the big event itself. Clearly not the act of double-genocide in and of itself, it's been acknoweldged repeatedly. It hit me though, that what the Doctor has really displayed is great protectiveness and loyalty to his freinds and companions, and this I think is what could be the line for the Doctor, the one thing he can never forgive.

The scenario that plays out is thus: Hurt is progressing along with his plan. Perhaps he's alone, perhaps he's got allies, but at some point he faces a choice- a companion or close ally, current or past, perhaps even Susan herself, is in immediate danger- and the scenarios that could play out are multiple from being held hostage by Rassilon or the Daleks, to simply thinking the Doctor is going to far and trying to stop him- and Hurt is forced either to rescue them or put the final piece of his plan in motion and make it unstoppable.

For the Doctor we know, the choice would be easy- he'd drop everything, rescue the companion and somehow manage to set the plan in motion anyway. But for the Hurt 'Doctor' it's not so clear cut, and ultimately he chooses 'in the name of peace and sanity' to take that most dreadful choice and focus on the double-genocide plan instead.

And that is what means that no other incarnation can accept him- to lose a close freind or ally, not through helplessness or factors out of his control, but to have chosen to sacrifice them for the greater good, to have killed them as surely as if he'd pulled the trigger himself- in escence to stoop down to the level of everyone he's ever fought and treat the life of the people who have placed their trust in him as expendable. And if that person were Susan as well (and given the events of To the Death it's not unthinkable to suggest it might be), so much the worse would be the betrayal.

I'm not sure if it's alltogether the route I'd like things to go- no one really wants beloved companions and classic era characters to die in such manner- but considering what we know, it certainly strikes me as one of the few things that could really be enough for the Doctor to essentially excise a prior incarnation from his own past.

I wonder if it's an indication that Moffat is going to give the 8 fans a measure of recompense through a single significant feature: The November episode and the Hurt 'Doctor' will be driven by events from the Big Finish productions, implicitly making them a Canon set of adventures in at least the broad strokes.

I very much doubt it. If Moffat had given a toss about McGann fans, he'd've bloody well taken this heaven-sent opportunity to GIVE US SOME MCGANN.

Plus, the Big Finish Eighth Doctor spent six hundred years with some jellyfish (Orbis). Trust me, you DON'T wanna drag THAT sort of thing into the already-totally-screwed-up on-screen Doctor's Age debate.

And why are you just looking at the Eighth Doctor audios, rather than the EDAs, some of which were actually GOOD?

That arc ends with the 8th Doctor suffering what sounds like a virtual breakdown over his inability to help Lucy when she tried to reach out to him

Yeah, yeah, whatever. He also lost his great-grandson and his other ex-Companion (Tamsin) but to be honest he didn't seem ENORMOUSLY upset.

and if the set of four episodes following it for the Doctor's chronology are anything to tell by it leads on pretty much straight into the Time War.

Not that I noticed. And I suspect I'm the only person on Nitcentral who bothered to listen to Dark Eyes. (If you HAVE listened to Dark Eyes for god's sake POST SOMETHING in that section! There is NO EXCUSE for neglecting your Nitcentrally duty!)

the massive personal tragedy of To the Death

Theoretically the loss of two ex-Companions and a great-grandson is a massive personal tragedy. And the Doctor did at least have the decency to pretend he gave a ••••, unlike with, say, Adric or C'rizz. (Though not MUCH of a ••••. He certainly didn't see fit to comfort Susan over the loss of her only child.)

possibly added to with other losses in the war itself (Leela? Some other companions?)

Leela - if you're taking the audios seriously, no. At SOME point she left Gallifrey and started ageing rapidly (various Leela Companion Chronicles), but certainly didn't die in the Time War. Romana, though - the novels n'audios' claim that she ended up President/War Queen of Gallifrey must have SOME basis in truth. Had she stayed in E-Space the on-screen Doctor would SURELY have gone there to find her by now.

we get Hurt, a 'Doctor' who is convinced that both sides must be wiped out to end the war

Given that one side is THE DALEKS and the other is trying to END THE UNIVERSE, this isn't so much being 'convinced' as plain FACT.

and quite possibly is determined that he should not have a companion because it's too dangerous/he's lost too many already.

Yeah, yeah, we've HAD this determined-not-to-have-a-Companion thing before, in the late Tennant era. But he just can't help himself.

what the Doctor has really displayed is great protectiveness and loyalty to his freinds and companions, and this I think is what could be the line for the Doctor, the one thing he can never forgive

Well, aside from him getting over dear Adders in two minutes flat - 'Let's take a lovely holiday!'

And judging by the Journey's End flashbacks (including of his OWN WIFE and OWN DAUGHTER) the Doc IS haunted by his Companions' deaths but CERTAINLY not to the extent of changing his name and denying his own existence.

And that is what means that no other incarnation can accept him- to lose a close freind or ally, not through helplessness or factors out of his control, but to have chosen to sacrifice them for the greater good

Sunshine, the Doc spends half his life manipulating people into sacrificing themselves for the greater good. He feels guilty about it. And then he carries on being the Doctor.

to have killed them as surely as if he'd pulled the trigger himself

Erm...aren't we forgetting the moment Eccy (totally unnecessarily!) shut ROSE in with a DALEK??

treat the life of the people who have placed their trust in him as expendable.

Anyone WORTHY of travelling with the Doctor would have a Captain Jack-like attitude: Always trusted him. Always will. Blow up the evil ••••••• and blow my brains out too with my blessing.

And if that person were Susan as well (and given the events of To the Death it's not unthinkable to suggest it might be), so much the worse would be the betrayal.

The Doctor doesn't give a toss about Susan. He abandoned her on a Dalek-ravaged world and (whether you believe the books OR the audios) didn't bother coming back for another SEVEN REGENERATIONS. (And even then it wasn't exactly DELIBERATE.)

Well it was Adric you can't quite blame him. It was something of a stroke of genius that he was written out on a 'high' for want of a better term.

I'm throwing this theory out here and now for your consideration...
William Hurt is some guy that calls himself The Doctor, but he isn't OUR Doctor.
He inspired OUR Doctor to take the name of The Doctor as a way of correcting the mistakes of this other guy.
In other words, they're two separate people, andHurt is not our Time Lord from any period.

I would consider it, if it wasn't for the fact that the man is called JOHN Hurt, not William.

And there's also that "Introducing John Hurt as The Doctor" thing at the end of The Doctor's Name.

And the fact that Matt Smith Doctor tells Clara that the mysterious figure with his back turned to them is the version of himself who broke the promise of the Doctor's name.

And yet we never saw this John Hurt face in that book the Doctor drew in in 'Human nature', or the Cybermen memery device when we saw the previous 9 Doctors.
Welll...wait and find out.

And yet we never saw this John Hurt face in that book the Doctor drew in in 'Human nature', or the Cybermen memery device when we saw the previous 9 Doctors.

BLOODY good points.

Of course, you can claim that the Doctor's own subconscious wrote out Hurt in Human Nature (the way he did other painful events, like his farewell with Rose), but the Cybermen/Daleks certainly wouldn't have any such qualms. And surely the Time War Doctor would have been the MAIN one the Daleks would make all their datastamps about?

Nor in the sequence when the Atraxi size him up in Eleventh Hour.

The Atraxi were scanning Earth, and the Doctor's actions on Earth. Since the Time War Doctor presumably never set foot on our planet, the Atraxi could not have known about him.

I would like to point out that the 11th Doctor does not appear in the Dalek datastamps or the Cybermen memory device either.

Maybe, yet they got the order right, which is pretty impressive for a time traveller.

About John Hurt's 'Doctor" and his beard. I know this is Tennanty-type prejudice but i hate kissing a guy with facial hair or stubble. It's like kissing prickles or sandpaper respectively.

It's probably why the Master grew a beard.

Yeah, not wanting to sound, um, anti-hirsute-ist (or something)* but there's something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG about a Doctor with a beard. The only time he EVER grows one is when he's a) tied to a chair for three months, b) forcibly aged by several hundred years, or c) in need of getting his heart ripped out.

*Though if it's good enough for Romana-in-Creature-From-the-Pit, it's almost certainly good enough for me too.

I thought about something. It is possible that the John Hurt Doctor is something like the Dream Lord, an aspect of the Doctor's persona made manifest in some way, a warrior ruthless and intelligent enough to fight in the Time War and do what had to be done to win, regardless of the cost.

Could be, I guess.

Emily in The God Complex:I'm totally freaked out by the Hurt Abomination

John Hurt was Winston Smith in 1984, Even Emily would barrack for Winston Smith, surely.

It is possible that the John Hurt Doctor is something like the Dream Lord, an aspect of the Doctor's persona made manifest in some way, a warrior ruthless and intelligent enough to fight in the Time War and do what had to be done to win, regardless of the cost.

On the one hand, ANYTHING to avoid Hurt being a PROPER Doctor - even that tired old Valeyard idea, which was bad enough first time round.

On the other hand - what a cop-out. Our Doctor IS strong enough to take the difficult decisions.

Well, maybe except for poor darling 'coward, every time' Eccy. And that wimp Davison. And that overly nice McGann (if he really WASN'T the one to Seize The Moment after all).

But the OTHERS could merrily chuck people into acid baths/gloat over genociding the Macra/smash injured men's heads in with rocks/befriend Mao Tse-Tung/not bat an eyelid about wiping out half the universe/sneer as he tricks people into wiping out their homeworlds/laugh as he sends his species back to hell/condemn enemies to eternal torture/boast of killing all the Time Lords...WITHOUT needing to lose his name and appease his conscience by splitting a part of his psyche off to do his dirty work.

John Hurt was Winston Smith in 1984, Even Emily would barrack for Winston Smith, surely.

Winston Smith LOVED BIG BROTHER.

Even the celebrity version?

Well, maybe except for poor darling 'coward, every time' Eccy.

It's very likely that Eccy Doctor reacted that way because of what he had done during the Time War. Having to deal with two genocides was enough, he simply could not bring himself to do anything like that again. And interesting question, can Time Lords suffer from post traumatic disorder?

It's very likely that Eccy Doctor reacted that way because of what he had done during the Time War. Having to deal with two genocides was enough, he simply could not bring himself to do anything like that again.

That's what I've always thought, at least up until the moment Tennant did it again with a cheery 'Go to hell, Rassilon!' And then never gave his actions a second thought.

And interesting question, can Time Lords suffer from post traumatic disorder?

I don't see why not (except that the Doctor doesn't, and no one's been through a thousandth as much as him).

Remains of JEP's post now moved to 'Monsters: Davros':

Except of course for Eccy,and it looks like the Hurt Doc might. Two others(T.B. and Tennant) might have if they had lasted longer.

Eccy was obviously born out of the horrors of war, and deeply affected by this, but I don't think a doctor would diagnose him with PTSD. He seems to positively ENJOY trouble rather than freeze up or have screaming nightmares about it.

Maybe regeneration clears up mental problems as well as problems of the body--it does change the personality.

Yeah, I think traumas usually manifest in a changed personality after regeneration rather than in PTSD. Of course, the Doctor manages to drop dead every few WEEKS (OK, I exaggerate slightly) whereas half Gallifrey may have been suffering from mental illness, what with thousands of incredibly tedious years to dwell on the horrors of the invasion-by-three-Sontarans and suchlike.

Plus, they don't sleep nearly as much as humans - and isn't sleep supposed to be valuable for sorting out the bad memories?

Tennant was feeling too sorry for himself to notice at the time

Actually the self-centred git was feeling too HAPPY that I'M ALIVE! I'M ALIVE!!! at the time to give a toss that he'd just genocided his own species (mum included, apparently) YET AGAIN.

If regeneration cures mental issues--there's no reason for the Smith Doctor to be affected by it.

Interesting point. Matt certainly SEEMED like a new man - even BOASTING about offing the Time Lords, for heaven's sake - but there's more going on under the surface than we realise. Look at the way he totally seemed to have got over his love for Rose (that certainly survived ONE traumatic regeneration) and yet he screams in horror when the TARDIS interface appears as her, and, like Tennant, he seems to want hers to be the last face he sees before dying...well, ONE of the last, anyway...

This is strange. The previous post contains replies to one or more posts that I can't locate anywhere on nit central.

I'll go back and make it a bit clearer, but basically most of Jep's post was about Davros so I moved it over there, and just saved the Doctor-related bits and responded to them here. Obviously I'd've preferred to have created two Jep posts, one here and one in the Monsters, but that isn't possible.

Emily - he'd just genocided his own species (mum included, apparently) YET AGAIN.
He didn't genocide them (then they'd be dead) he Time Locked them (which means they're still alive, but unable to interact with the rest of the universe) and let's face it, it's just a matter of time before they figure another way out of that Time Lock.

He didn't genocide them (then they'd be dead) he Time Locked them

Yes, he FORCED them back and trapped them in a time when he KNEW they'd be blown to smithereens five minutes later by, well, HIMSELF. So I don't see why we can't hold the same genocide against two different Doctors. (Not that I hold it against him, exactly, I just hold Tennant's cheeriness against him. And contrast it with Hurt apparently being robbed of his very NAME by a similar action.)

and let's face it, it's just a matter of time before they figure another way out of that Time Lock.

Impossible!

Though obviously extremely likely...

Emily in 'The Five Doctors': And I have some doubts that our Fiftieth will still be providing me with endless happiness in thirty years' time. What with that HURT thing standing there in Eccleston's place.

What would it take for John Hurt to win you over?

Hmm. Possibly saying 'Tee hee, only kidding' before ripping off his rubber mask to reveal a certain big-eared Northerner...

John Hurt is a very good actor, and he seems to have impressed the regular actors in the series. I bet he will win you over despite you desperatly not wanting him to.

Emily, why don't you wait until the episode airs BEFORE you pass judgement.

John Hurt is a very good actor

I don't want a good actor! I WANT A GOOD DOCTOR!

and he seems to have impressed the regular actors in the series

You KNOW how embarrassingly enthusiastic EVERYONE connected with any important episode of Who is before it's transmitted. Best actors ever, best script ever, best monsters ever, made me cry, blah blah blah.

I bet he will win you over despite you desperatly not wanting him to.

Honestly, nothing would give me greater pleasure than eating my words. OF COURSE I'd be rapturously happy if only I could unexpectedly fall madly in love with Hurt two-thirds of the way through his first episode, a la Eccy n'Tennant.

Oh. Except that the gnashings of teeth over his pitifully brief existence and betrayal and abandonment of me would ruin my life for YEARS TO COME.

That is, assuming that this godawful idea DOES bog off after Day of the Doctor. For all we know, Capaldi will spend half his life battling this evil other self in lieu of the Master...

Emily, why don't you wait until the episode airs BEFORE you pass judgement.

Why would I want to rob myself of months and months of whinging? How ELSE am I to fill the endless void between Name of the Doctor and Day of the Doctor?

"For all we know, Capaldi will spend half his life battling this evil other self in lieu of the Master..."

That's not terribly likely. Hurt would be too expensive for that.

Ooh, excellent news!

Maybe, but the concept is intriguing.

"Ooh, excellent news!"

Not the first time that an actor has been beyond the series's means:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUGr8VeVd4c

For all we know, Capaldi will spend half his life battling this evil other self in lieu of the Master..

A thought occured to me. The description of the being supposedly imprisonned in the Pandorica bears little resemblance to what we know of the Doctor, "a nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies, the most feared being in all the cosmos". That legend could have been born from the actions of the Time War Doctor however, once he was done destroying the Time Lords and the Daleks, and found himself free to roam the universe as he pleased. Having the Capaldi Doctor face such a foe would indeed make for an awesome storyline, one that will obviously never see the light of day though.

---

quote:

By Emily Carter (Emily) on Saturday, May 18, 2013 - 5:17 pm:

Let's get it QUITE CLEAR:

Whatever the •••• that John Hurt thing is, it will get its own thread in 'Doctors' OVER MY DEAD BODY.

---

John Hurt rocked!

Just a shame Big Fannish can't afford him

I vote John Hurt be added to the Doctors list too.

This isn't a democracy, Sunshine! I SAID 'over my dead body' and now I've had 75 minutes of him pretending to be my Doctor I'm sticking to my word.

Sure, I'm forced to concede that he's a Doctor - McGann regenerated into him, he regenerated into Eccy, we've been robbed of the (already flimsy) excuse that 'he doesn't count as a Doctor cos he blew up Gallifrey and no one calls him Doctor' by the fact he DIDN'T blow up Gallifrey and everyone called him 'Doctor' - but 'Moffat is clear that Matt Smith is still the Eleventh Doctor' (see http://gallifreybase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186998) so he's GOT to be in the eleventh position in the Doctors board. OBVIOUSLY.

Oh.

*Glances at top of page*

I do have to admit that Hurt totally doesn't belong in 'The place to point and laugh at those uncanonical fools who thought they could get away with pretending to be our Doctor.'

What if instead of the names of those (uncanonical) human actor people we had 'The First Doctor (Hartnell)'...'The Eighth Doctor (McGann)' 'The War Doctor (Hurt)' 'The Ninth Doctor (Eccleston)' etc? That would...make me feel a lot better. For some reason. OK...let's vote!

I do like the "War Doctor" tag.

That sounds splendidly reasonable.

Yeah give Hurt a "War Doctor" section.
He's no David Banks or Rowan Atkinson

While I agree with a War Doctor section, are we ever going to talk about him outside the context of Day of the Doctor? I don't see him appearing in any other media.

Well, maybe books, since they don't really need the actor.

I WAS gonna use the 'And he'll only ever appear in one story so what's the point!' argument, only then I remembered McGann...

Ah, I see the John Hurt Doctor has been added. Excellent.

I still don't see why Moffatt would ever take a chance like creating the War Doctor, and not anticpate the same kind of fan wrath that the Valeyard encountered, and we all know how he's perceived in Who fandom!

He had four options.

1- Have Eccleston be the Time War Doctor.

2- Have McGann be the Time War Doctor.

3- Have the Time War Doctor be someone we had never seen before.

4- Go in an entirely different direction with the 50th anniversary special.

Option 1, as we now know, was a no go.

Option 2 obviously was much more plausible, but for some reason McGann was unwilling or unable to reprise the role for the full special.

Which left Moffatt with options 3 and 4, and he chose 3. Should he have gone for 4 instead? Maybe. But I bet he was involved too deeply in the Time War story at that point to change it.

for some reason McGann was unwilling or unable to reprise the role for the full special

You're KIDDING, right?! OF COURSE McGann would have gone for it!!!

I mean unable, as in "he had prior contractual obligations"

In the Five-ish Doctors, Davison and Baker enviously comment that McGann is always acting, always working. That may have reflected a real life situation, that McGann was otherwise engaged and could not free himself in time to appear in the 50th anniversary special. That special was being shot against a hard deadline and could not be postponed. McGann did do the mini episode The Night of the Doctor, which is probably as much as he could manage.

Scratch what I just said. Moffatt knew he was going to make the 50th anniversary special, and when, so he could have contacted McGann WAY in advance to make sure he would be available.

I hope somebody is going to write a book about all of that someday.

What's done is done, the anniversary is over. Some liked it, some didn't. Case closed.

Case CLOSED?!

We're WHO fans.

The case still isn't closed on whether or not it was pointless to open An Unearthly Child with a policeman...

God, if only it was "case closed".

The special was great- far better than I thought it would be. Made better by not having a bunch of geriatric Doctors attempting to run around embarrassingly trying to relive their youth. The use of Tom was well thought out and the story (minus the silly Elizabeth I plot) was fantastic.

•••• it in people.

Made better by not having a bunch of geriatric Doctors attempting to run around

What, aside from the positively ancient Tom Baker and John Hurt, you mean?

Peter O'Toole from Racism of Arabia, sorry, Lawrence of Arabia has died. Some media pages put up John Hurt's picture by mistake.

What, aside from the positively ancient Tom Baker and John Hurt, you mean?
You clearly missed the bit where I said his use was "well thought out". He wasn't trying to be the young Doctor we all know and (you) love. Not in the running, jumping, killing light house people kind of sense anyway...

As for Hurt, well we never saw him as a younger Doctor so we have nothing to base it on.

Not in the running, jumping, killing light house people kind of sense anyway...

Oh? What light house people did he kill, exactly?

As for Hurt, well we never saw him as a younger Doctor so we have nothing to base it on.

Actually we saw a reflection in Night of the Doctor that is presumably supposed to be a younger Hurt, though I can't see it, myself.

What I meant by "case closed" is that the special has aired. There is nothing we can do about it, we can't change it (unless someone here has a TARDIS handy).

At least we GOT an anniversary special this time. The last time was 1983.

Let's get it QUITE CLEAR:

Whatever the •••• that John Hurt thing is, it will get its own thread in 'Doctors' OVER MY DEAD BODY.

So Emily, I've been meaning to ask you, how is existence as a zombie agreeing with you?

Existence as a zombie bears a startling resemblance to existence as a human being. My life was all about Who and my afterlife is all about Who, and AS YET there has been no craving to eat brains. (Though if that materialises you'll be the first to know, you have the kind of scientific brain I could really DO with.)

Look, Hurt does a REALLY GOOD JOB of pretending to be The Love Of Our Lives. Especially when he's striding out of that painting with the other two, or saying 'Am I having a mid-life crisis?' or doing the 'posh gravity thing'. The inter-Doctor banter is definitely more fun AND more thought-provoking than the usual 'dandy and clown'/'fancy-pants/scarecrow' fare. It's just that he's not Eccy. He's not McGann. He messes up our Sacred Numbering System.* And he's really old and ugly.

'I intend to end it the only way I can' - oh for heaven's sake. Ask Jackie Tyler to find you a big yellow truck, why don't you.

'I've lost the right to be the Doctor' - did YOU 'lose' it? Or did McGANN deliberately give away said right? How much responsibility do you bear for the choices of your former self? Tennant n'Matt seemed happy enough to shrug off at least SOME of the responsibility for your (supposed) actions by being nasty to you.

'The man who'd commit the crime that would silence the universe' - blowing up Gallifrey didn't silence the universe. The universe didn't even NOTICE.

'What makes you so ashamed of being a grown-up' - er...YOU do?

'Is there a lot of this in the future?' 'It does start to happen, yeah' (as Tennant gets his face snogged off) - surely it started to happen back in the McGann era...?

'Great men are forged in fire. It is the privilege of lesser men to light the flame, whatever the cost' - oh-kay. Obviously I'd blow my homeworld to smithereens if I thought that would result in David Tennant, but, to be honest, Hurt didn't exactly seem to be his (OR Matt's) Number One Fan.

*Let's face it...the he-doesn't-mess-up-the-numbering-cos-he's-not-really-the-Doctor thing JUST DOESN'T WORK. We SEE McGann regenerate into him and him regenerate into Eccy. He DIDN'T commit the crime for which he was stripped of his name. His other selves (eventually) hail him as 'the Doctor' and say they were just PRETENDING he wasn't. Even THE DALEKS are calling him 'the Doctor', for Rassilon's sake. (Why not 'the Dalek Predator', like they called Matt?) He's got a TARDIS and a sonic screwdriver and considerably more of a passion for peace than, say, Hartnell or Colin. About the only Doctorish thing he misses out on is - judging by her surprise when she eventually encounters him - being rescued by Clara several times over (which is quite surprising given that a War Doctor should get himself into trouble even more than the non-War variety).

He's the Doctor, Emily, deal with it.

This is what we should have seen...

http://youtu.be/eO3veBHQ7aQ

So what did he CALL himself? I realise that when you're machine-gunning people down instead of offering them jelly babies, there's less need for an introduction but still, he must have called himself SOMETHING during all those decades.

The Physician?

Surely that would be translated as 'Doctor' to anyone who heard it? Kinda removing the POINT of all that angsty 'Doctor no more' stuff.

The distorted face we saw post-regeneration in Night of the Doctor was young. The Hurt Doctor we saw in Day was really old. He almost certainly spent CENTURIES fighting on the front line (unless he accidentally fell into a Tachyon Generator or something) - he must have called himself SOMETHING. (I suspect that Matt's reference to 'Captain Grumpy' in Time of the Doctor was his own invention and NOT Doctor Eight-And-A-Half's actual name...)

Possibly, he called himself the Warrior. That's the type of regeneration he specifically requested from Ohila.

Or he pulled a Prince and used an unpronounceable symbol as his new name and the other Time Lords called him "The Gallifreyan formerly known as The Doctor". ;-)

Steve - The Physician?
Nah, The Physician is a ginger. ;-)

How about 'Time's Champion',orjust 'Champion'? That was a nickname for the Seventh, so maybe he made it official with this incarnation.

My other choice would be one of the best names in the universe...Steve.

Possibly, he called himself the Warrior.

Yeah, I could live with that.

Or he pulled a Prince and used an unpronounceable symbol as his new name and the other Time Lords called him "The Gallifreyan formerly known as The Doctor".

Unfortunately we keep seeing his fellow Time Lords (not to mention the Daleks) referring to him as 'Doctor'.

How about 'Time's Champion',orjust 'Champion'?

'Champion' would just be so...boastful. Alright, so the Doc's not exactly the most modest bloke in the universe, but still...

Well, they could always call him: CAPTAIN CAVEMAN!

(I should really stop watching old Hanna-Barbera cartoons).

What if Hurt had been cast as the Doctor in Classic Who?

Presumably he wouldn't have blown Gallifrey to smithereens, so wouldn't have been so bloody MISERABLE all the time, so...actually, I'm struggling to think of any characteristics to define him other than 'bloody miserable all the time' plus 'that godawful whispy white beard'.

Hurt PRODS at the Moment (aka THE GALAXY-EATER) in an attempt to see how it works?!

I suppose we should be grateful he didn't give it a good thump to get it going...

'I've been fighting this War for a long time, I've lost the right to be called the Doctor' - funny, cos Night of the Doctor made it clear he decided he was no longer the Doc approximately two seconds after he was born, rather than after centuries of warfare.

Hurt needs the sight of their sonics to recognise his OTHER SELVES? (It's not as if Romana couldn't build her own, you know. Hell, even Mrs Foster has a sonic pen.)

Matt announces he's '1200 or something'. Hurt responds '400 years older'. I.e. HE'S 800-ish when he regenerates. Into 900-year-old Eccy.

And how does Hurt fighting for centuries in the Time War (well, apparently that reflection of him looks YOUNG in Night of the Doctor though I can't see it myself) - not to mention McGann surviving long enough to look considerably older AND encounter the Time War - fit in with McCoy being 953?

The female-Doctor discussion in the Season Eight: Dark Water thread got me thinking:

Should our War Doctor have been a woman?

Wouldn't that have pleased EVERYONE - those who WANT a female Doctor (AT LAST!) and those who think she'd just be a gimmick (cos, let's face it, the War Doctor IS a gimmick)?

VERY FEW chauvinists would have been so screamingly insane as to REFUSE TO WATCH OUR FIFTIETH ANNIVERSARY MULTI-DOCTOR (INCLUDING TOM!!) 3-D EXTRAVAGANZA on the grounds that - aaagghhh - one-thirteenth of those guys has XX chromosomes!!

And wouldn't it have made PERFECT LOGICAL SENSE that a Doctor created from drinking a Sisterhood of Karn potion WOULD be female?

And couldn't we have AFFORDED the best actress in the world for a one-off appearance?

And if she'd made a success of the role then it would have broken the ice vis-à-vis a PROPER female incarnation in the future, and if everyone had hated her then hey, it would be mainly down to her messing up our sacred numbering system and not being Eccy or McGann rather than her gender. (Let's face it, I've never forgiven HURT for these crimes against humanity and I never will.)

And at least SHE wouldn't have had that awful wispy beard.

Of course, Ten and Eleven would have had to go a bit easier on their War-Doctor-bullying or it would have looked unpleasantly like two men ganging up on one woman - but then that never made any sense ANYWAY. He didn't do it for FUN, guys! He hasn't even DONE it yet! And - hello - HE'S YOU!

It would certainly have been ... unexpected. Women are usually not associated with war, for some reason. On the other hand, Athena was the most badass of all the gods and godesses on Mount Olympus. Only Zeus, her father, could go toe to toe with her. A female Time Lord warrior would have been something very unusual, and done right it could have been awesome.

It would also have provided a better rational for that incarnation to NOT use the name of Doctor.

He didn't do it for FUN, guys! He hasn't even DONE it yet! And - hello - HE'S YOU!

We often are our own harshest critics

A female Time Lord warrior would have been something very unusual, and done right it could have been awesome.

A MALE Time Lord warrior is also very unusual. (The only one I can think of is Rassilon, waving his stupid glove around and trying to destroy the universe in, frankly, an extremely masculine and rather unsuccessful manner.)

It would also have provided a better rational for that incarnation to NOT use the name of Doctor.

Ah. I'd forgotten all about THAT. Actually it wouldn't have looked too good to have the one-and-only (so far) female Doctor spend her entire on-screen existence having other Doctors lecture her on how she's not a proper Doctor.

And excuse me! Why would there be a better rationale for a WOMAN not to be a Doctor...?

And excuse me! Why would there be a better rationale for a WOMAN not to be a Doctor...?

Doh! I had 'Master-Mistress-Missy' in mind, for some reason. Of course a woman can call herself 'Doctor' just as well as a man. I'll put on my Dunce cap and go stand in the corner now.

Why couldn't they have done a homage to Alien where a Zygon bursts out of Hurt's chest?

Zygons don't burst out of people's chests. In fact, the only monster I can think of that DOES that sort of thing are Adipose, which may not be quite the effect you were looking for...

Look, I too want to see Hurt punished for his temerity in pretending to be a Doctor. But we ought to place the blame fair and square on Eccleston's head where it belongs.

And also on Moffat's, for thinking McGann wasn't up to being a War Doctor...

Hurt's character in Alien dies when an alien bursts out of his chest.

Hmm. So the Alien movie exists in the Whoniverse but the Doctor's never seen it (Last Christmas) despite Tennant in particular having an encyclopaedic knowledge of modern human popular culture, so he CAN'T have subconsciously modelled his War body on some bloke famous for having aliens bursting out of his chest.

Though, of course, the Doctor(s) MIGHT have seen the stupid film and Matt forgot during his centuries of senile tedium on Trenzalore, or Capaldi just deleted all this 'popular culture' kind of rubbish.

Hey, isn't McGann supposed to be in one of them too?

Is there any chance that the Sisterhood of Karn bootlegs Earth films?

...I'm confused.

It's possible that in the Doctor Who universe Hurt was unavailable to play Kane and the role instead went to popular actor Patrick Troughton from 'Robot of Sherwood'.

there's rumours that Hurt will become "Sir John Hurt" in the New Year Honours.

Why should HE be the only Doctor with a knighthood! Whe does he think he IS!

Aren't we forgetting Sir Derek Jacobi and (admittedly only on an SNL skit) Sir Ian McKellen?

---
Hey, isn't McGann supposed to be in one of them too
---
Alien 3. Which has past and then-future Who alumni including Brian Glover (Attack of the Cybermen), Danny Webb (The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit), Chris Fairbank (Flatline) and Phil Davis (Fires of Pompeii).

If Hurt has a wife, she becomes "Lady Hurt" with his knighting.

---
Aren't we forgetting Sir Derek Jacobi
---
I guess, given the Master's had a knighthood, it's only fair the Doctor has one too. ;)

Besides, out of all the other actors, who's done enough in their careers to earn one?

Cue Emily going off on a diatribe about the Doctor being the only role they ever need to play to be awarded knighthoods, Oscars (although Peter Capaldi has one already), the Nobel prize...

Although none of them have even had a CBE as yet, to my admittedly brief search.

Oh, and for Kate's 2nd to last post, John Hurt was the original choice for Kane in Alien, but was contracted to film in South Africa when production was due to start, so they cast Jon Finch, but by the time filming started, he'd fallen ill and John Hurt's film had fallen through, so they went back to plan A.

So maybe in the Doctor Who universe, John Hurt's South African film did happen, and either Jon Finch didn't fall ill, or they recast with someone else.

I can't understand how anyone can deny that Hurt is clearly established as coming inbetween McGann and Eccleston now.

I don't think they are denying it. I think they are just bemoaning it.

Yeah, it's THE DOCTOR who was in denial about it...very convincing denial. For CENTURIES.

He's not the Doctor, or even the War Doctor. He's the Sir War Doctor!

You mean it's official?

Pah. Tennant is Sir Doctor of TARDIS and...um...actually, DID Kamelion-King-John knight Davison? I can't remember. (I DO remember King Richard SNUBBING Hartnell in favour of IAN - had he NO IDEA whose programme this was?!)

that wasn't King Richard; that was a bitter and vengeful Scaroth splinter.

I'm not so sure.

When it comes to desperately pushing forward the boundaries of human technology, what on Earth would be the POINT of invading Palestine?

When it comes to desperately pushing forward the boundaries of human technology, what on Earth would be the POINT of invading Palestine?

The crusaders picked up a lot of ancient Greek texts, preserved by the Arabs, which had been lost in Western Europe, contributing to the start of the Renaissance, just as Scaroth presumably planned.

Some might argue he could have just arranged to discover a cache of classical texts buried under London, by one of his earlier splinters, but that would never have worked, not with the notoriously damp British climate. The texts would need to be hidden somewhere reliably dry, like the Middle East.

Also Sheridan Smith is an OBE.

Wouldn't a Jageroth, even a splinter, live much longer than an average human?

The crusaders picked up a lot of ancient Greek texts, preserved by the Arabs, which had been lost in Western Europe, contributing to the start of the Renaissance, just as Scaroth presumably planned.

Ah. Very interesting.

Also Sheridan Smith is an OBE.

Ridiculous! A mere audio Companion!

Wouldn't a Jageroth, even a splinter, live much longer than an average human?

No idea. Maybe the novelisation, WHEN it finally comes out, will give us a few helpful clues.

WAR DOCTOR: I guess you aren't the man i thought you were, Clara Oswald
CLARA: Oh really? Can you have a baby?
WAR DOCTOR: No, just grow a beard. Which i can shave off. You cannot do that with a baby.

John Hurt has pancreatic cancer:

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/entertainment/celebrity/actor-john-hurt-reveals-cancer-diagnosis-agency/ar-BBldES3?ocid=mailsignoutmd

However, they caught it early. Let's wish that this fine actor recovers, shall we.

Pancreatic cancer often goes unfound until it is too late, as there are not that many initial symptoms. God Bless Mr Hurt's doctors.

Yeah, the poor guy made a perfectly...adequate...attempt at the pointless, doomed task of FILLING THE SHOES THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ECCLESTON'S.

Good luck to him.

I knew someone who had cancer. Up until about a week before their death it seemed as though they would defy the facts about their type of cancer. Sadly, the facts won out.

Well, he thinks treatment is going 'terrifically well'.

Hurt Interview

You'll pardon me if my heart doesn't exactly bleed that political correctness has allegedly deprived him of the pleasure of acquiring Wife Number Five, though...

Interesting that the fangirls obviously aren't dressing up in his costume and hurling themselves at him with cries of 'Take me into outer space, Doctor', the way they constantly did with Tom...

'What if someone's got tattoos of the Doctors, with all the numbers? What are we going to do to that person?' - Moffat interview

Wow, it's like nobody even considered McGann as the war Doctor. Or did I miss something?

In another interview Moffat sort of implied that he didn't think McGann would be up to being War Doctor. Which is ironic, given how Moffat's own Night of the Doctor proved that YES HE WAS.

Hurt's cancer is in remission so hopefully he'll be good for a lot more Big Finishes...

Yes, yet another missed opportunity for us fans. So what if Eight didn't 'seem like a War Doctor'? Just don't call him the 'War Doctor'. A few lines of dialogue could have explained why he changed between the TV Movie and this episode, but noooooooooo, that's too much to ask to tie in the TV Movie with the series with a Nice Big Exclamation Point.

Well, at least we got Night of the Doctor.

Even though, of course, it's Night of the Doctor that REALLY brings home to us WHAT A WONDERFUL WAR DOCTOR MCGANN WOULD HAVE MADE INSTEAD OF THAT WISPY-BEARDED PRETENDER.

The 8th Doctor just wasn't ruthless enough to be a warrior. too jolly and keen on the preciousness of life.

Even though, of course, it's Night of the Doctor that REALLY brings home to us WHAT A WONDERFUL WAR DOCTOR MCGANN WOULD HAVE MADE INSTEAD OF THAT WISPY-BEARDED PRETENDER.

To quote Doc11 "he may not have called himself The Doctor but he was still a regeneration....". In other words- HE'S NOT A PRETENDER

Good to hear that "pancreas falls no more!"...

BOO-HISSSS!!!!

Even I wouldn't have the nerve to tell a pun that bad!!!!

Nightmare in Silver, while talking to the Cyber presence inside his head about regeneration the Doctor says "I can regenerate right now. Don't want to, use this me up who knows what I'll end up with next."

People tend to wave this off as "the Doctor lies" but given he's talking to something implanted in his head and should know if he's lying, the statement should therefore be truthful. To be fair, Neil Gaiman didn't know about the War Doctor when he wrote the episode. Hell, when he wrote the episode, Clara was still supposed to be from Victorian times.

He also didn't know about that 'Tennant took up two regenerations!' nonsense.

Of course, when Matt DID do his 'I'm the thirteenth Doctor, this is it!' speech, HE seemed to have totally forgotten about our beloved Curator...

(It's OK, Kate, don't bother to do your 'Anyone would think Moffat's making it all up as he goes along!' thing. WE'RE ALL THINKING IT.)

Credit where it's due: there were numerous occasions during the first War Doctor audio box set where I was wondering why the Doctor was saying something so stupid, but not once did I think 'Why is this interloper pretending to be the Doctor?'

Still, my abiding impression of audio-War-Doctor is that he drinks fruit juice INCREDIBLY noisily.

Hurt interview in DWM:

'Well, I said, "Doctor Who? I don't think that's really my sort of stuff"' - EXACTLY MY REACTION TO YOU BECOMING THE DOCTOR, SUNSHINE! - 'But my wife was listening, and when she heard that it was the 50th anniversary, she said, "You've got to be f***ing joking! You're doing it!" - OK, THAT'S exactly my reaction too...

'I was often asked, "Are you going to do any more?" and I said, "Well, I don't think so, because the War Doctor's problem is the other Doctors' problem and that's been dealt with, in a sense...I'm not ruling it out, but unless somebody comes up with a real stonker of an idea"...But when I got ill, I had to make some sort of insurance if I could, as to things I knew I could manage to do. and I was pretty sure that I would be able to do this' - great, so we have CANCER to thank for the War Doctor audios.

'How can you not want to play a part that is always right and is actually more attractive than anyone else, funnier than anyone else, who's always got the right answer, is cleverer than anyone else, and always comes out on top?' - *Glances at Hurt, Colin Baker and William Hartnell* To be honest, I'm not 100% sure that he's more ATTRACTIVE than anyone else...

Happy Birthday John Hurt, who plays The War Doctor, who is 77 today on Sunday 22nd of January 2017

Probably not THAT happy a birthday, in retrospect.

Well, RIP War Doctor whose body wore a bit thin.

Or, as Hurt himself put it, 'I hope I shall have the courage to say, "Vroom! Here we go! Let's become different molecules!"'

why did Fate have to take Hurt and not say, Baker the second or McCoy?

Well, the main thing is, the Doctors are no longer dying in order. Thanks be to Ti.

Hurt was a good, even great, Doctor. At least it wasn't Sean Connery and His Constant Scots Burr No Matter What The Nationality Of The Part.

Hurt was a good, even great, Doctor.

He wasn't a great Doctor. Admittedly he didn't have much of a chance to be, but it's not as if he nailed the part in an hour flat the way McGann did and had people begging for him to come back for the next nine years...(Admittedly circumstances are very slightly different...)

At least it wasn't Sean Connery and His Constant Scots Burr No Matter What The Nationality Of The Part.

I don't care what he's like in any OTHER part but if Sean Connery BEGS to be the Doctor I for one would consider it, and of course he'd be welcome to play it Scottish, McCoy proved that lots of planets have a Scotland and I'm STILL infuriated that TennantDoc had to go all Mockney...

John Hurt was a great actor.

I loved him as Caligula in I, Claudius. He stole every scene he was in.

---
He wasn't a great Doctor. Admittedly he didn't have much of a chance to be, but it's not as if he nailed the part in an hour flat the way McGann did and had people begging for him to come back for the next nine years...(Admittedly circumstances are very slightly different...)
---
Given John Hurt had to compete with two Doctors and a secondary plot that had only a minimal amount to do with his character and arc, while Paul McGann essentially had the whole time focussed on him, I think he came over very well.

There's another set of War Doctor audios to come out next month, but I've no idea if there's any more recorded after them.

John Hurt was a great actor.

Being a great actor and a great Doctor are two quite separate things.

A truly great Doctor, viz, Tom Baker, doesn't even NEED to do all this 'acting' stuff.

I loved him as Caligula in I, Claudius. He stole every scene he was in.

to be fair, if you're slicing your baby from your sister's womb and then eating it, it's QUITE EASY to hold people's attention even if you're NOT much in the acting stakes...

Paul McGann essentially had the whole time focussed on him

The hell he did! Sylvester McCoy hogged half the programme, then Eric Roberts stole the rest of it from under McGann's nose, the only time the camera WAS focused on him was when he was wandering around in a sheet having amnesia.

I think he came over very well.

Given that Hurt's pushed me into the u-turn of reluctantly accepting him as a Real Live Doctor these days (and not always so reluctantly - I actually get quite indignant when he's omitted from lists or Twelve Doctors Twelve Stories collections) then he must have come across pretty well, yeah.

Though dammit what a wasted opportunity to have him TRULY different from the other Doctors, and as for allowing his screen-time to be stolen by stupid Zygon/Liz One subplots...

There's another set of War Doctor audios to come out next month, but I've no idea if there's any more recorded after them.

If there are they've kept them INCREDIBLY quiet.

In other John Hurt news, Big Finish have just launched the first story in a set of adaptions of H.G. Wells stories, starring Hurt as The Invisible Man.

They wasted Hurt's EXTREMELY LIMITED time on Invisible Man nonsense instead of squeezing another (admittedly no doubt mediocre-at-best, but that's not the POINT) War Doctor box set out of the poor guy?

his first role was that of a girl in a school production of The Blue Bird I'm sure he made a lovely girl!

Moffat's Day of the Doctor novelisation:

'The flesh of his face hung like the leather of his jacket and his smoke-slitted eyes glittered like blades' - •••• I find myself suddenly nostalgic for the good old Terrance Dicks days of 'vaguely Bohemian-looking' and 'young-old face with a shock of white hair'...

'The Warrior formerly known as the Doctor (or the Doctor of War, as people insisted on calling him, despite his protests) went on to wage the bloodiest campaign in the history of the known and unknown and partly known universe. It was said he felt every blow he inflicted, and grieved for every life he took, but that none of this pain ever stopped him or slowed him or diverted him from his purpose.' - Yeah, I'm not really swallowing this, if he was such a slaughterer of billions why did he faff around graffitiing walls on Gallifrey and chatting up the Moment instead of JUST GETTING ON WITH slaughtering a few more billion (sure they're his own people but since when has he been racist enough to care about his own people? He's ALWAYS preferred us humans, to the extent of pretending to BE half-human for heaven's sake...)? Also why didn't he bloody well CARRY A WEAPON? Once you've killed your first billion surely you don't SERIOUSLY believe that not carrying a gun denotes some sort of MORAL SUPERIORITY?

'The wrath of the Doctor of War was the last wonder witnessed by the many billions who stood against him. He took command at the slaughter of Skull Moon; he battled at the fall of Arcadia' - well, waved a sonic around and shot a wall anyway - 'he fought to prevent the rise of the Nightmare Child; he witnessed the seven deaths of Davros' - WITNESSED? TennantDoc claimed he tried to SAVE Davros though I suppose you can hardly mention that when you're claiming he's massacring billions - 'and he led the final charge up the slopes of the Never Vault' - in which case isn't this entire story a bit of a travesty? Its raison d'etre is to save Hurt's soul and stop him committing genocide but HELLO! (Also, rather contradicts the not-really-any-different-from-his-other-selves War Doctor of the audios and one-and-only novel.)

'I never told anyone anything' - well you bloody do in the audios! (Also, you've just told the Daleks and Time Lords NO MORE.)

'I glanced again at the two identical twelve-year-old boys who stood a few feet from me, apparently having a little squabble...They looked at me in obvious terror....Nothing stared back at me, except perfectly modulated vacuity. It was like watching television!...The Interface had shown me my future, and here it stood in front of me, ready to present Blue Peter...One of the Harry Potters was looking decidedly shifty...At first Bow Tie was mercifully quiet; just sitting there, with a big smile that on most faces would have suggested a light concussion - or at any rate, would have encouraged one from anyone with a free hand - while Tweedle-dumber shot glance after glance at him' - isn't he laying it on a bit thick for the guy who'll shortly be saying 'Great men are forged in fire. It is the privilege of lesser men to light the flame'...?

'I spun round, and to my relief saw nothing more dangerous than a large number of armed soldiers...In normal circumstances, I wouldn't have laid aside a sandwich, but today I was encumbered...there they were, prancing all over the place, randomly pointing their screwdrivers' - hmm, I find it hard to believe that the TENTH AND ELEVENTH DOCTORS are SUCH a liability as to stop Mr Slaughterer-of-Billions in his tracks when faced with a few Elizabethan soldiers.

The flesh of his face hung like the leather of his jacket

This makes it sound like someone's cut his face off and he's wearing it round his shoulders like a cape.

I suppose it's still an improvement on Colin's coat.

That is a disturbing image.

That is a disturbing image.

A skinned Hurt or Colin's Coat?

I'm pretty much used to the coat by now.

I will never, if I live to be a thousand, get used to That Coat or indeed the man inside it.

It's possible that in the Doctor Who universe Hurt was unavailable to play Kane

Imagine Troughton doing the scene where the alien bursts out of Kane's chest?

Or playing Winston Smith in the 1984 version of 1984.

Troughton did play Winston Smith in a BBC Radio version of Nineteen Eighty-Four: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrLO2IP45-I

Hurt wasn't exactly a GQ model but at least some women found him sexy enough to spawn with him.

Happy Birthday John Hurt. Rip. He was the War Doctor and is much missed.

here's another Youtube video, of an exptended variation of the Eight to War Doctor regeneration and scenes after the change. 3 and half minutes long;

https://youtu.be/5tr4EIeqfdY

And here's an opening theme TV version for Hurt...

https://youtu.be/lHRm5vNlh8w

Great, now even HURT gets his face in the credits before JODIE! (or Hartnell) do.

I posted the regeneration on the Night of the Doctor board. It's pretty amazing work.

Costume designer in DWM: 'What I wanted to do was to have an essence of all the Doctors as a big amalgam, but also a sense that his clothes were all deteriorating, that this was a guy who was hundreds of years old' - you didn't need the CLOTHES to convey THAT when you had John Hurt's face...

'"When we'd finished putting it together, John looked in the mirror and just said: "You know, dear boy, I really think you've got him - I think that's it. So now I'd better go and learn the lines!" And he was literally on camera, following day, first thing. Pitch perfect, of course' - bless!

Hurt got his face in the credits before Eccleston and even tenant, too.

Oops! Too late! he's got o0ne, too!

https://youtu.be/Lxzjj24bbmI

I think my brain did this really weird thing when it assumed that 'Eccleston and Tennant Eras = Best Thing In Human History' and it was just so UNTHINKABLE that the Best Thing In Human History should have ROBBED us of our Fundamental Human Right to Doctorish Faces (or at the very least eyeballs) that my memory just blanked it out. (Also my feminist instincts are on the look-out for slights against JODIE! much more than they are for possible slights against Ecclestraitor and Tennant, but that's because no one had fits of screaming misogynistic hysteria when Nine and Ten were announced.)

Well, she is the only Doctor to eat DIRT in an episode, just for laughs. The more I thought about it, the less humorous I felt it was. (BBC executive; "Hey, let's get the chick playing Doctor Who to eat soil in an episode! We'll just say she can analyze it because she's an alien, but in reality...Haha!")

Did RTG ever explain why we didn't get faces on his Doctor's credits?

BBC executive; "Hey, let's get the chick playing Doctor Who to eat soil in an episode! We'll just say she can analyze it because she's an alien, but in reality...Haha!

I remember Tennant doing that in Planet of the Dead.

And I'm pretty sure that whatever Jodie ate for that scene, it wasn't actually dirt.

Did RTG ever explain why we didn't get faces on his Doctor's credits?

Not that I remember, DAMMIT why didn't He do those Writers Tale emails throughout His entire time as our Living God, not just the last couple of years.

BBC executive; "Hey, let's get the chick playing Doctor Who to eat soil in an episode! We'll just say she can analyze it because she's an alien, but in reality...Haha!

I remember Tennant doing that in Planet of the Dead.

Yeah, I didn't have a problem with that scene after Tennant has licked so many things. And it was QUALITY Doctor craziness:

DOCTOR: It's fine. It's only 2018. I thought we'd leapt into the Woolly Rebellion.
YASMIN: Sorry, what?
DOCTOR: The Woolly Rebellion. In 193 years, there's a total renegotiation of the sheep-human relationship. Utter bloodbath.
GRAHAM: I've always fancied the idea of Norway. What bit's this?
DOCTOR: Don't know. [Eats some soil.] But twenty five miles away, there's an alpaca farm, and gift-shop with a very low TripAdvisor rating. Soil?
GRAHAM: I'll give it a miss, ta.

The Wooly Rebellion gives a whole new meaning to the term "sheeple".

John Hurt was acting before JODIE was even born.

Saw the movie Scandal (1989) starring John Hurt.

Hurt played Dr Stephen Ward, a key figure in the Profumo affair with the said Profumo played by Ian McKellan.

At one point Hurt as Ward, a doctor, said "no more" and it felt prophetic to him saying those same words in The Day of the Doctor.

I saw this comment on a Youtube video, I found it awesome, I thought I would share.

First thing you notice about the Doctor of War is that he is unarmed. For many, it's also the last.

Yeah, I liked it so much I made it War's quotation.

Even though it was actually from the Capaldi era.

(To be honest I also want Capaldi's delightful line about gender ('We're the most civilised civilisation in the universe. We're billions of years beyond your petty human obsession with gender and its associated stereotypes') to be JODIE!'s quotation but you CAN'T definite the era of our First Female Doctor* with some grossly inaccurate mansplaining. Can you?)

*Or so we thought...

Big Finish has cast its new War Doctor:
https://www.doctorwho.tv/news/?article=the-war-doctor-begins-audio-drama-big-finish&fbclid=IwAR03nnK4U1Hm9xJMONLEQcz6U6M6Cs8WTb5mveLRsv-FPNliDybyBM6quA8

Because of course it has.

I s'pose it would be hypocritical of me to scream BLASPHEMY! when I've spent the last - gosh - seven years proclaiming Hurt to be No True Doctor...

Still, four box sets of The War Doctor Begins seems a trifle excessive when Night of the Doctor clarified this issue perfectly sufficiently...

Introducing Jonathon Carley, Big Finish's new War Doctor:
https://imgur.com/a/qUKqj9W

Guess they would have to recast him.

I just don't understand why we haven't got the hang of cloning humans yet, Dolly the Sheep was DECADES ago.

The woman who complains about overpopulation is in favor of cloning?

Who are you and what have you done with the real Emily?

Who are you and what have you done with the real Emily?

'Clone' and 'clone', obviously!

The woman who complains about overpopulation is in favor of cloning?

Only of a VERY select number of people. A mere three or four of my favourite Doctors, and a mere two clones apiece. Really, I would be happy to take out a few wastes-of-space to make room for them, and, of course, make the Supreme Sacrifice of my own potential-children to offset their existences...

Do clones still do the accelerated-ageing thing? Cos we could have a series of Fourth Doctor Who on TV AT THE SAME TIME as the Original Tom was doing a series of Curator Who on TV in his early hundreds...

Time Warp: The Greatest Cult Films Part 1 - Midnight Madness included John Hurt in a clip of him as The Elephant Man.

I just don't understand why we haven't got the hang of cloning humans yet, Dolly the Sheep was DECADES ago.

Two reasons.

First, that particular research is banned in most countries, which would have a tendency to slow down progress to a considerable degree.

Second, human cells have structures that makes it very difficult to to transfer genetic material from one cell to another without destroying it.

And what would be the point I ask? The clone would not be a copy of the original person, just a new genetically identical individual, the way identical twins are.

And what would be the point I ask?

Cos Tennant n'Tom are getting OLD!

Gotta think of our multi-Doctor Eightieth, y'know...

(Or maybe Seventieth, don't clones age ultra-fast or something?)

John Hurt in Hercules (2014):
https://www.guiadasemana.com.br/contentFiles/system/pictures/2014/8/119566/original/john-hurt.jpg