Based on an idea in the Family Of Blood thread, I decided to start a thread in which the Doctor's stupidity got people killed.

Warriors Of The Deep: The Doctor's sudden anti-human bigotry, and his continued praise for those "wonderful Silurians" got a lot of people killed here.

The Silurians made is plainly clear that they were not interested in peaceful co-existences with us humans, they wanted to wipe us off the face of the Earth. Yet the Doctor refused to see that, as the bodies kept piling up around him.

By the time the Doctor finally woke up and saw the truth, practically the whole crew of the Seabase had been wiped out.

"There should have been another way." Well, duh, Doctor, if you'd used the Hexcromite earlier, a lot less lives would have been lost.

I mean had it been Daleks or Cybermen attacking that Seabase, the Doctor would not have hesitated to destroy them as quick as possible.

Anyone else have examples in which the Doctor's stupidity got people killed?

The crew of the Mary Celeste in The Chase?

The Silurians made is plainly clear that they were not interested in peaceful co-existences with us humans, they wanted to wipe us off the face of the Earth.

But you're perfectly OK with the Silurians being wiped off the face of the Earth? And since subsequent stories have held open the possibility of human/reptile rapprochement in the future - and this is made explicit in the NAs - then it seems peculiar to demand that the Doctor go uncharacteristically genocidal on their asses.

The problem with the line "there should have been another way" is that the obvious response isn't "no there isn't" but "yes, so how about showing that instead?" (Also a problem in the Chibnall Silurian story, which like this is set far enough in the future for reconciliation to seem like a plausible dramatic option rather than a rhetorical nod to Doctor Who's customary ethical stance.)

And apart from anything else, this is a really dopey example of a time "the Doctor's stupidity got people killed". All those people would have been killed anyway if he hadn't shown up, and lots more beside.

"There should have been another way." Well, duh, Doctor, if you'd used the Hexcromite earlier, a lot less lives would have been lost.

On balance, the universe is a LOT safer if the Doctor DOESN'T reach for the poison gas at the first opportunity. If a few treacherous/stupid/cowardly/Myrka-kicking base personnel have to pay the price, well, frankly, it's a CHEAP price.

Now sabotaging their nuclear reactor - THAT was a piece of CRIMINAL stupidity that, were I the base commander, would have got Davison up against the nearest wall and SHOT.

I mean had it been Daleks or Cybermen attacking that Seabase, the Doctor would not have hesitated to destroy them as quick as possible.

Daleks and Cybermen don't have free will (give or take Alpha, Beta, Omega, Sec, Caan, Yvonne, Danny, CyberBrig etc etc). This (apparently) makes it OK to slaughter 'em all without a second thought. Silurians obviously had individual personalities, even before Madame Vastra infinitely enriched our apeish lives with her glorious presence.

The crew of the Mary Celeste in The Chase?

Was that STUPIDITY or did the Doctor just REALLY REALLY need to get away from the Daleks and not particularly care about collateral damage?

But you're perfectly OK with the Silurians being wiped off the face of the Earth?

Frankly I'm fine with ANY human, Silurian or anything else who tries to drown humanity and, more importantly, cats, in a sea of their own blood in a nuclear holocaust being wiped off the face of the Earth.

And since subsequent stories have held open the possibility of human/reptile rapprochement in the future - and this is made explicit in the NAs - then it seems peculiar to demand that the Doctor go uncharacteristically genocidal on their asses.

Yeah, but I'm not sure how well the canonical rapprochement will go (leaving aside the NAs' gay Silurian jazz bands or whatever they were), given that the Doc told the Silurians to emerge from hibernation IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SOLAR FLARES.

All those people would have been killed anyway if he hadn't shown up, and lots more beside.

Yeah, it's THAT TIME HE GOT HALF THE UNIVERSE WIPED OUT by STUPIDLY taking the Master to Logopolis that REALLY gets on MY nerves. (Obviously more due to the loss of Tom than the loss of half the universe, but that's not the POINT.)

But you're perfectly OK with the Silurians being wiped off the face of the Earth?

Just to be clear, when I said "Silurians", I meant the three (and their Sea Devil mooks) who appeared in WOTD, not the entire race.

Madame Vastra shows us that there are decent Silurians out there, and her relationship with Jenny shows us that our two races can co-exist.

There was a certain story involving a lighthouse where the Doctor, whilst not being overly stupid, simply didn't give a bull's pit about the many deaths he caused (inadvertently)....

All of whom would have got killed anyway if he hadn't shown up. Really the only stories where this topic would broadly apply would be those - like 'Logopolis' - where he initiates the action rather than just turning up in the middle of it.

Plus, let's not forget that 'Planet of the Spiders' is almost entirely about the Doctor realising his character flaws can be lethal for people like Professor Clegg.

To hell with Clegg, Planet of the Spiders counts as a Time The Doctor's Stupidity Got People Killed because of the THIRD DOCTOR'S death. Topping yourself because some Buddhist monk tries to make out that curiosity is a hideous sin is REALLY STUPID even when it leads to Tom.

Yeah, the Doctor REALLY should have thought things through before bringing the Master to Logopolis.

In a way, the Doctor is just as much responsible for the death of the Traknite race as the Master is.

Yeah, the Doctor REALLY should have thought things through before bringing the Master to Logopolis.

The weird thing is, the Doctor DID think it through. And he decided to DROWN SEXY rather than take the Master to Logopolis. And then had a nice little chat with the Watcher and JUST CHANGED HIS MIND.

In a way, the Doctor is just as much responsible for the death of the Traknite race as the Master is.

Agreed, and why the HELL hasn't this occurred to Nyssa...

But the Doctor (as the Watcher) also saved Nyssa from dying with the rest of Traken so she'd love him as well as hate him.

I dunno about Nyssa, but if someone had wiped out MY entire species I wouldn't exactly be grateful to 'em for saving my miserable skin. (Admittedly I'd ALSO be pretty pissed-off if they left me to die in an That Abomination With The Trees-style 'Oh, but she'd miss her mummy and daddy!' so it's really a no-win situation for WHOEVER HAD JUST WIPED OUT MY SPECIES.)

What in the dead gods of Krypton did the Watcher say to the Doctor that convince him that it was okay to bring the Master to Logopolis??

'You're about to die, bet you a fiver you can't take half the universe with you...'?

As the Watcher approaches the Doctor at the end...

The Doctor: Pay up!

From the Logopolis board- what the Watcher and the Doctor's first conversation was:

D: Hello. Would you like a jellybaby?
W: No thank you I've come to warn you...
D: Oooh- should I start quoting poetry about now?
W: Look this is serious! The Master is back! You didn't kill him on Traken.
D: Does he still have that rubbish beard?
W: Hmmm... yes I think he does... But listen, your time is coming to an end, you must sacrifice yourself to save the universe.
D: Again?
W: Yes
D: But I like this form! I have hair! and teeth!
W: yes but once you regenerate you'll have a younger body. You'll be able to run more than a hundred meters.
D: Really? But I'm still rather active...
W: Ok ok...I'll do a you deal...if you regenerate, I'll let you bonk Romana for the next two years...
D: Really? Which one? The brunette or the blonde?
W: The blonde one...
D: Oh ok then! The things I do....

Of course, I should mention the story that inspired this thread, Human Nature/Family Of Blood. In which the Doctor's decision to run and hide, rather than fight the family, got a lot of innocent people killed.

Yeah, and standing and fighting NEVER gets innocent people killed...

The First Doctor would have happily sacrificed the Thals to the Daleks if it meant getting his fluid link back. The Second let a bunch of hapless archaeologists into a Cyber tomb for sh*ts and giggles. The Third expressed qualms about the Brigadier (quite rightly) destroying the Silurians, but he had no hesitation in condemning Axos to an eternity of time. The Fourth wiped the Vardans out of ever having existed with a time loop, having condemned the Time Lords for doing the same thing to the Fendahl. The Fifth may not have been happy about it, but he absolutely helped in the destruction of the Silurian Triad. Old Sixie was happy to destroy Mestor, the Androgums and the Borad. The Scottish Gnome destroyed the Gods of Ragnarok.

Most of these weren't the Doctor's stupidity, though, they were deliberate and entirely justified putting-downs of genocidal maniacs to save millions. On the occasions they weren't:

a) It was Susan's stupidity that led the Thals into that trap. And the Doctor's sheer selfishness that had him leaving 'em there.

b) Still not sure what Troughton was playing at, but it was as deliberate and unstupid as his Macra, Atlantis and Vulcan genocides.

I meant stories like Warriors Of The Cheap, in which the Doctor's anti-human bigotry (which came right out of left field), got almost the whole crew of that base slaughtered.

That's what happens when you let Eric Saward off his leash.

I meant stories like Warriors Of The Cheap, in which the Doctor's anti-human bigotry (which came right out of left field), got almost the whole crew of that base slaughtered.

You CAN kinda understand the Who Production Team realising that they'd made a hideous, hideous mistake ridding themselves of Tom and belatedly attempting to turn their bland blond boring Davison into the kind of ALIEN alien Tom had been so effortlessly, but yeah, his ghastly little rant against humans was just bizarre, as was his attempt to dismantle the nearest nuclear reactor, as was Matt regurgitating his vile lying anti-human propaganda in Cold Blood...

Well, I guess the Doctor's stupidity got most of the universe wiped out. (I wouldn't blame her for not seeing the Flux coming if THE SONTARANS HADN'T SEEN THE FLUX COMING.)