Moderator's Note: This is Mike's original Almost Companions synopsis:

Who are the Almost Companions? They are the characters that manage to meet up with the Doctor more than once, but don't become steady travel companions. Some examples include Frobisher (from the Doctor Who Comics), Iris Wildthyme (from the EDAs), and Doris Lethbridge-Stewart (from the final season).

Note--originally I had separate topics for each, but space considerations forced me to delete the old threads and combine this into one. Sorry if these deleted any earth-shaking comments....



Time to give Evelyn a board of her own?

Well, if Evelyn gets a board of her own, so should Charley. Which I'm against, mainly because whilst I'm not sure if Evelyn would generate much discussion, I'm quite sure Charley wouldn't. (Btw how old is she, does anyone know? I can't work it out).

Why not just have a single Audio Companions board and combine the two (and any others Big Finish may decide to add)?

Somewhere I read that Charley's supposed to be a teenager. To my ear, though, she sounds more as if she's college age, in her early 20s. Maybe 21: young and impulsive enough to decide on a whim to drop everything and stow away on an airship to Shanghai, mature enough to actually (almost) pull it off, and to hold her own with strange people in hostile, alien environments. No mere ankle-twisting screamer. I like her.

I'm not that keen on her, myself. She's always either crooning over that Ramsay creature (I wonder if Ramsay qualifies as a Companion, btw? He's been in as many stories as her and isn't half so irritating (though of course evoking severe irritation in one's audience doesn't automatically disqualify you from being a Companion, quite the reverse in fact). Anyway, when Charley isn't crooning over Ramsay she's making supposedly cutting remarks to the Doctor. She doesn't seem sufficiently grateful to be given the opportunity to roam the universe in the company of Paul McGann. Though I suppose her attitude towards him is preferable to that of most of his TV and novel Companions, i.e. Phwoar!

But then I admit I've been prejudiced against her before I ever heard her, on account of that name.

Talking of audio Companions...there are definitely too many of them. There've been, what, 25 audios and they've already had the impudence to introduce Evelyn, Charley, Frobisher, and Erimem. And Ramsay. And Benny (not that she isn't well and truly established, with 50 NAs, not to mention three series of her own, to her credit, but any snobs who think that only TV and CDs are canon must have had a shock).

Charley was a necessity, of course. You can't have McGann talking to himself all the time, it's just embarrassing. It's a pity they didn't find someone more interesting, but her 'dead' status almost makes up for this.

And Evelyn was perfectly allowable. I mean, ALL the Sixth Doctor's TV Companions are able and willing to accompany him on his audio adventures, but as 50% of them happen to be Mel, one can only be thankful that Evelyn was granted the supreme honour of tagging along behind the Doc. She works very well with Colin Baker for some reason. She's old, for the first time ever. And she's highly intelligent, though unfortunately that just makes the acts of stupidity she's forced to commit as a Companion even more noticeable.

In the normal way I'd be TOTALLY anti-Frobisher. I mean, he's from a COMIC STRIP for god's sake. Not only should all grown Who fans steer well clear of such ludicrous childish things, but his appearance in an audio raises the question of comic canonicity, about which there should be no debate whatsoever (LIES, they're all LIES). And the Sixth Doctor already had THREE Companions - more than he managed on TV - and hardly required a fourth. But Frobisher's appearance was such fun that all is forgiven.

Erimem is definitely a step too far, though. Davison has Turlough, Nyssa and Peri to scream and twist their ankles, the last thing he needs is a frankly unconvincing ex-Pharaoh. Apparently her creator is looking forward to the Doctor having to introduce his Companions Perpegillium and Erimem. Yeah, hilarious.

They're not comics, they're graphic novels.

Okay, sorry about the gratuitous MST3K reference which probably went miles over Emily's head.

Still, it's nice to be called a snob for this working class pro union leftist man born in relative poverty. Berthold Brecht and Eugene Debs would be proud of me. Especially since I don't even consider audios as canon.

I understand the reasoning of introducing new companions, but couldn't Big Finish work harder to bring in established companions instead of mass producing these audios. From what I hear on the grapevine, the quality of their more recent audios is suffering in the writing department.

Yeah, OK, as I'm the one who's been slagging off all the Big Finish output for about the last nine months, I have to admit that the writing department does indeed leave something to be desired. Still, it'll pick up. Sooner or later.

Luiner, I don't care how left-wing working-class you are, you can still be a snob. Me, I was snobbish about those books for YEARS before I Saw The Light. And, as you can perhaps tell, I'm STILL snobbish about those cartoons - comic strips - graphic novels - whatever you want to call the wretched things. And I intend to go on being snobbish about them for the rest of my life.

OK, so explain what this MST3K thing is.

http://www.mst3kinfo.com

Mystery Science Theatre 3000 (or MST3K) will make absolutely no sense to you, Emily, for two reasons:

(1) Your acknowledged lack of popular culture outside of Doctor Who;
(2) Most of MST3K's jokes are based on American pop culture, which would leave the average Brit in the dark anyway.

BTW, it's my 2nd favorite TV show of all time, after "Doctor Who." And we should all keep in mind this line from the theme song:

Just repeat to yourself 'it's just a show'
I should really just relax

Another way to explain it.

On a space station called the Satelite of Love Joel (or Mike) and his two robot friends nitpick and make fun of really REALLY bad movies as they are running. This is all part of a family of mad scientists experiment.

These movies are terrible. They make Web Planet look like Citizen Kane. Titles like Manos: The Hands of Fate (remember that manos is spanish for hands) and The Castle of Fu Manchu which I think is the all time worst movie of all time. Even Joel and his bots couldn't make this one entertaining.

Robot Holocaust. King Dinosaur. Cave Dwellers. War of the Collosal Beast. Attack of the Giant Leaches (one of my favourites). These are just a sample of the titles.

I don't see why Frobisher's appearance in an audio would automatically canonize the comic strips, any more than the Doctor's appearance in the comic strips canonizes them. If the audios count then, yes, I guess there's a character called Frobisher who has at one official adventure: The Holy Terror.

I had no idea who this Benny person was, but after listening to Shadow of the Scourge, I was impressed. She was like a second Doctor in this story. Anyone know if her "solo" audios are any good?

You're right, Frobisher wouldn't _automatically_ canonise the comics, it's just that his appearance in Holy Terror - like the appearance of Stacy and Ssard in Placebo Effect, or Absolam Daark in Deceit - makes me feel uneasy that the comics should have hit on THAT much of the truth. Makes you wonder what other facts they've somehow managed to discover about the Whoniverse, and how on Earth you'd tell the truth from the dross, and whether I'm doing right to totally ignore the things.

The Benny solo audios aren't particularly good. Some of them are adaptions from the Benny books, which needless to say are infinitely superior, and some of them are rather pointless, flimsy original stories. If you want to get to know Benny - and she's well worth it - read Love and War, Human Nature, Original Sin, Just War, Death and Diplomacy, Beyond the Sun, the Dying Days, The Squire's Crystal. Just for starters.

Mike and Luiner, I regret to inform you that you have totally failed to inspire me to watch this MST3K thing, or even to click on the link. So there.

Frobisher has now been in a comic strip, PDA, and audio, which makes a strong arguement for his existance.

Man (or woman!), Emily, you are a tough crowd!

R.E U.K transmissions of MST3K
Dear Mike, MST3K has only been shown on the Cable/Satellite Channel, Sci-fi Channel U.K in the U.K/Europe area, as I recall, only the later seasons were shown, and only on Fridays at 22:00/23:00 on a Friday Night!
Yours, A U.K MST3K Fan !

Yeah, I know. I'm a regular visitor to the MST3K Info site, http://www.mst3kinfo.com. And I'm a HUGE MST fan....

Haven't I ALWAYS SAID that people who happen to travel with the Doctor in more than one story - i.e. Katarina - should NOT be assumed to be Companions?? Well

SPOILERS FOR NEW SERIES:
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isn't Adam the proof? Is anyone claiming he's a true Companion rather than an erroneous blip??

Obviously he was included to show how perfect Rose was, as if we didn't already know (actually, maybe that was a wise precaution, given what she gets up to in Father's Day). But Adam's inclusion wasn't particularly convincing. I mean, one story earlier the Doctor had (as far as Rose knew) refused to have her boyfriend aboard even after he'd saved the world. So what made her think it was worth asking him to take some bloke she quite fancied, even though his only claim to fame was running fast (admittedly a vital Companionly skill, but not one likely to endear Adam to the Doctor, given that this resulted in him leaving Rose alone with a Dalek.)

Re:Companion Canonicity
Reading the intro to this section/topic, you could argue by the definition given, that Liz Shaw is NOT a "Companion", as she never travelled with him in the Tardis...
(Granted, it was during the 3rd Doctor's "exile on Earth" period, but she is counted as a "Companion", unlike Sara Kingdom or Bret Vyon...).
"Hmmmmm, How long is that bit of string"....

Mike Yates didn't travel in the TARDIS either, from memory? Wasn't it only Benton in The Three Doctors?

Companions fill a certain role in the storytelling: splitting away from the Doctor to get involved in the story from a different angle, screaming, etc. Since Katrina supplies us with a cliffhanger, I'd count her. She had that cliffhanger because the writers counted her as a companion; they wouldn't have put her through that if she was just a secondary character.

Adam would qualify by some definitions, but since, from a storytelling point of view, the whole point was to show that he didn't have what it takes to be a companion, he doesn't really count by me.

Yates and even Benton are more recurring characters than actual companions in my book, not much different than Glitz, Prof. Travers or Rose's mum, just occuring more frequently.

you could argue by the definition given, that Liz Shaw is NOT a "Companion", as she never travelled with him in the Tardis...

That's why I'd use the 'travelling with the Doctor' definition with caution.

Mike Yates didn't travel in the TARDIS either, from memory?

Sadly for Yates, he did in the MA Speed of Flight...

She had that cliffhanger because the writers counted her as a companion; they wouldn't have put her through that if she was just a secondary character.

Nonsense! The MASTER being threatened by Azael was a cliffhanger at one point, and he could hardly be considered a Companion unless you were using a really weird definition. (It's theoretically possible, though - god knows he yearns to hang around with the Doctor more than any Companion I've ever known, and, as Turlough proved, you don't have to actually be on the Doctor's side to count.)

And nonentities have sometimes been used for cliffhangers in the past - can't think of any offhand, but sometimes the cliffhanger is the revelation of a monster, so it doesn't really matter if the person backing away in terror/screaming their head off/getting killed is unimportant.

Yates and even Benton are more recurring characters than actual companions in my book, not much different than Glitz, Prof. Travers or Rose's mum

Burn the heretic! Gormless Benton and even that treacherous Yates are true and faithful Companions to our Doctor! Though I admit the new series has muddied the waters a bit, what with popping back every two minutes to visit Rose's mum...

Liz finally traveled with the Doctor in the PDA "Wages of Sin."

I know what MA is - Missing Adventure, but please...

What does PDA mean?

PDA = Past Doctor Adventure. The BBC Books' equivalent of the Virgin MA, only including the Seventh Doctor. With the added benefit that the name doesn't provoke the Completely Useless Encyclopedia the way 'MA' did ('Missing? Missing from what? The shelves of discerning readers, perhaps?')

By the way...EDA = Eighth Doctor Adventure, NDA = Ninth Doctor Adventure, I suppose soon we'll be getting TDAs, god help us.

Thanks! You are indeed a fount of all Whovian knowledge...

What will they call the 11th Doctor Adventures? 11DAs?

XIDAs?

Apparently NSAs are the approved term for new series-related books...

I've only just noticed - despite Who's lack of imagination vis-a-vis Companion names (Barbara and Polly Wright, Vicki and Victoria, two Dorothies (Ace and Dodo) etc) this is the first time two Companions/Also Companions - Captain Jack and Jackie - have had the same name at the same time since the Liz n'Bessie days.

Re:Emiliy's last comment
Strictly speaking Emily, Polly, like Nyssa, Adric, Leela & Mel do NOT appear to have last names,(at least in the T.V series) & as such your first example could be regarded as somewhat innaccurate, with regard to nomeclature....

Mel's last name was Bush, and was stated on the show. Nyssa, Adric, and Leela came from cultures that didn't use the patronymic system.

I think I read somewhere that Mel's surname was never actually said on televised Who, it was simply stated in the character profile drawn up by producer John Nathan-Turner.

Explains a lot. If my name was Bush, I'd scream a lot too.

[Moderator's Note: moved from the now-abolished 'Adam Mitchell' thread in the TV New Series Companions section, with the Synopsis 'Adam may hold the records for both the shortest lasting companion (beating out Katrina by a few minutes) and for being the only companion to be forcibly ejected.']

Adam's not a Companion! In fact, Adam's living proof that being in more than one story and/or getting to go somewhere in the TARDIS does NOT a Companion make.

Well, if the Doctor disposing of Steven in The Savages wasn't forcible ejection, it was the next best thing. Oh, and poor Susan was DEFINITELY forcibly ejected. Well, locked out anyway. And I remember Hartnell trying to kick Ian and Barbara out at least once, but I suppose they're stronger than he is.

And what about poor Sarah Jane? (FOUR DAYS TO GO! FOUR DAYS TO GO!!!!!!!!) She may not have been physically dragged kicking and screaming out of that TARDIS but it amounts to the same thing.

Adam was (1) invited into the TARDIS, (2) made a trip in the TARDIS, and (3) was actually given a key to the TARDIS. What else do you need to happen before we can call someone a companion? Give him a special T-shirt?

Yes, Steven and Susan were forced out, but you have to admit their expulsion was on a friendly basis. Adam's expulsion was definitely an extreme-prejudice expulsion.

Sarah asked to go first. Unfortunately for her, the Doctor called her bluff. And, as you've just noted, she's welcome to come back anytime (and has already done so, in "Interference").

Adam was (1) invited into the TARDIS

Actually I'm not sure that's technically true. Yeah, the Doctor begrudgingly agreed to have him aboard, but Adam wasn't aware of that. He just wandered into the TARDIS while it was taking off.

(2) made a trip in the TARDIS

True, but so did half the people Davison bumped into...1920s policemen, airoplane pilots, Will Thingamajig, future soldiers...you name 'em. That man had no discernment.

(3) was actually given a key to the TARDIS.

Yeah, but not by the Doctor. (In The Shooting Scripts Rose asked the Doctor's permission, but on-screen she didn't. So it was rather like Chang Lee getting his grubby hands on it (please don't tell me Chang Lee's a Companion) or Marco Polo (ditto - though come to think of it he probably spent longer travelling with the Doctor than some official Companions)).

Besides, TARDIS key-ness is a really poor gauge of Companionness. That Charley Pollard has 'Companion' coming out of her ears - the Doc won't abandon her even when she's destroying the entire fabric of space-time (or something), she won't abandon the Doctor even when he tells her to **** off and irrevocably (ha!) jumps into an anti-time universe, they just go on and on and on and on in one pointless audio after another...anyway, SHE didn't have a TARDIS key as late as Other Lives, i.e. on her twenty-first adventure.

Yes, Steven and Susan were forced out, but you have to admit their expulsion was on a friendly basis.

Dunno about 'friendly'...well, alright, in comparison with Adam's departure, but 'paternalistic' is a better word. No doubt the Doctor meant it for the best, but abandoning Steven and Susan without their consent on planets where they won't understand the language...where he'll be stuck between two factions which hate each other's guts and she'll be trapped on a Dalek-devastated planet with a bloke whose idea of having a good time is slapping her round the face with a wet fish (and never mind the whole he'll-age-and-die-and-she-won't thing)....well, Adam got let off lightly.

Sarah asked to go first. Unfortunately for her, the Doctor called her bluff.

I completely forgot about that! But even if Sarah hadn't asked, he'd've kicked her out of that TARDIS the moment the call from Gallifrey came through. (Never mind the fact he was happy to haul along any other Companion to Gallifrey, and even let 'em settle down and have BABIES there.) And anyway, he had no excuse for not going back and getting Sarah afterwards. Accidentally bumping into her a few decades (her time) and centuries and lifetimes (his time) later doesn't really count as 'welcome to come back anytime'. (TWO DAYS TO GO! TWO DAYS TO GO!!!)

Though I'll admit sending her a K9 was a nice gesture. Though one might think it's the least he should do in the circumstances.

Ladies and gentlemen, Adric the Second! ARRRRGHHH!

RTD sure goofed on this one, having a companion that reminded fans of Adric was NOT a great idea (he even looked like Adric). Thankfully, they came to their senses and dumped this guy!

It wasn't a matter of coming to their senses - Adam was ALWAYS supposed to be a terrible and brief-lived idea. 'Long Game' was originally called 'The Companion Who Couldn't'. He was supposed to illustrate how it took a lot more than brains to be proper Companion material. I.e. to make Rose look even better in comparison.

On past evidence, I'd say brains were the least of their qualifications. In fact, if I had to name the most important companion trait, I'd go for independence. They never do as they're told: "Don't wander off. I tell them, I do, Rule One." Sums up just about every companion, don't you think?

Yes...s'pose it does, even more than 'delicate ankles' or 'fine set of lungs'...but there are still exceptions - the clingy-orphan types (Susan, Vicki, Katarina) and the 'Gimme orders Doctor SIR!' types (Benton, Captain Jack, Mickey-the-idiot).

Can't say I remember Susan much, only saw her in a couple of stories and she seemed painfully weak. Never met the other two.

Don't really remember Benton being a Doctor's boy either, although maybe that was during my sparsely-watched Pertwee years.

Jack, well, we all know what he's imagining when the Doctor orders him about.

And Mickey? He didn't strike me as all that interested in earning brownie points with the alien making off with his girlfriend, more like gawping at the ice gun and discovering his Rambo gene.

So Adam was meant to get the boot after only one story. Good move on RTD's part.

Can't say I remember Susan much, only saw her in a couple of stories and she seemed painfully weak.

Yeah, but then wouldn't we all be if we'd been reared by William 'You need a jolly good smacked bottom!' Hartnell...

Don't really remember Benton being a Doctor's boy either, although maybe that was during my sparsely-watched Pertwee years.

Of course, poor darling Benton was GROSSLY neglected - he barely got a chance to make the tea, never mind demonstrate his sterling loyalty to the Doc - but I'm thinking Invasion of the Dinosaurs. Where Benton disobeyed ALL his superiors, Brig included, and TOLD the Doctor to knock him out - y'know, after the Doc had been arrested for being a monster-maker.

Jack, well, we all know what he's imagining when the Doctor orders him about.

We certainly do *much rapturous sighing* but the Captain can't have thought he'd have much chance to put his imaginings into practise when the Doctor told him to go fight half a million Daleks virtually single-handedly. (Alright, so who WOULDN'T take on half a million Daleks for EcclesDoc...it's the not-complaining-when-he-sends-Rose-to-safety stuff that's REALLY impressive.)

And Mickey? He didn't strike me as all that interested in earning brownie points with the alien making off with his girlfriend, more like gawping at the ice gun and discovering his Rambo gene.

Of course, Mickey does drastically evolve ('From Zero to Hero' as the Confidential put it) and admittedly at first he may have been a teeny bit reluctant to take orders from 'the alien, the thing' who'd eloped with Rose AND got him questioned for her murder AND couldn't be bothered to remember his name AND said 'How thick ARE you?' to him...but by Journey's End Mickey is calling the Doctor 'boss'.

Oh, and he DID seem inclined to stay put like the Doctor told him to in GitF...till Rose told him otherwise.

So Adam was meant to get the boot after only one story. Good move on RTD's part.

Might have been a still better move not to have included him in the first place...my outrage RUINED the end of 'Dalek' for me...but then apparently they wanted to give Eccy and Billie a bit of a light episode.

but by Journey's End Mickey is calling the Doctor 'boss'.

Okay, I'll have to give you that one, although now that I think about it, it's really very odd that Mickey would end up accepting his leadership. He's an amazingly non-jealous type. Then again, Mickey's clearly a follower and it would be pretty obvious he couldn't compete with a time-traveling alien, never mind one that morphs into David Tennant.

MODERATOR'S NOTE: This is Mike's original summary for Katarina when *much evil bwa-ha-ha-ing* she had her own section in 'Companions':

My only impression of Katarina is from the novelization of "The Dalek Masterplan," and that impression is "bad idea." If Leela could understand that the Doctor wasn't a god and the TARDIS wasn't a magic chariot, why couldn't Katarina? Her death was pointless, too.


Leela wasn't raised to believe in gods as Katarina was. Nor in magic chariots. Leela had her own problems with the Doctor's "magic." Besides, Katarina didn't have as long to come to terms with the technology. As I remember, Leela was a bit leery at the beginning; her saving grace was her practicality: if you can't kill it, and it's not trying to kill you, ignore it.

I've never actually gotten to see Katarina. I thought her death was a pity.

I don't count Katarina as a Companion. OK, so she was in the end of Myth Makers as well as the begining of Masterplan, but that only makes a total of 5 episodes. If only they'd resisted the temptation to marry Vicki off - then she could have nobly sacrificed herself instead, which would have had a much greater impact. Adric (sniff, sob) will remain the only Companion to die, as far as I'm concerned. Though I have to admit that Katarina was being more heroic than Adric. He was only risking his life - she KNEW she would die if she opened the airlock. She was (if I remember rightly) saving the Doctor from being blackmailed by a crazed maniac. What was pointless about that?

Did Katarina have a last name at all?

I don't think most people did in those days. She
would just have been Katarina of Troy.

What would they have done if there'd been two Katarinas in Troy?

Well, they'd just find another way of
differentiating them. Shouldn't be difficult.
There's Katarina the fishmonger with six kids, and
there's Katarina the slave-girl from the Temple
who likes hurling herself out of airlocks...

Chris--surnames are a fairly recent (say, last 400 years or so) invention. During the time of the Trojan War, descriptions would have been used in the event there were two Katarina. Something along the lines of "Katarina, daughter of So&So", or "Katarina the dark-haired", or "Katarina the (occupation goes here)." And in a decidedly masculinist society like ancient Greece/Troy, I doubt that very much concern would be given that two Katarina's got confused (sorry Emily!).

Was Katarina the only Companion to have a religion? The others (bar a few token mentions of a 'goddess' by Benny, Roz n'Chris) all seem, very satisfactorily, to be atheists or agnostics. Leela may have had plenty of superstition (hunting Greel down in the Great Hereafter, indeed) but that was just a hangover from her Xoanon-worshipping background - and she had cast off the shackles of Xoanon-worship even before the Doctor arrived.

One person's religion is another's superstition, so I think you could count Leela's Xoanan worship as a faith of sorts.

As for the others, it's hard to say. Life in the TARDIS doesn't leave much time to attend church services. And I'll bet meeting 4 or 5 godlike beings tends to at least turn you agnostic.

You'd think Victoria would be the sort who attended church regularly, given her background and time she is from.

I'd argue that Turlough attended church when at Brendon "Public School", but Very reucltantly at best...
(It was probably part of the Sunday timetable).

I think you could count Leela's Xoanan worship as a faith of sorts.

Oh, definitely, if Leela HAD worshipped Xoanon I'd've counted that AT LEAST as legitimate a faith as all this nonsense we've got about God/Allah/Yahweh etc, but Leela publicly declared, at great risk to her life (and despite quite a lot of proof to the contrary) that Xoanon didn't exist. I.e. she INVENTED atheism on her planet. Hence I see her occasional subsequent lapses into superstition as just that - lapses into superstition.

And I'll bet meeting 4 or 5 godlike beings tends to at least turn you agnostic.

Hear, hear. Certainly had that effect on ME. (I mean, bumping into 'em on Doctor Who, not in 'real life'.)

You'd think Victoria would be the sort who attended church regularly, given her background and time she is from.

Yeah, actually, you'd think - despite the scientist (and therefore presumably rationalist) father - that Victoria would have SOME religious hang-ups, but not once does she question the Doctor about the existence of God, the state of her immortal soul (presumably imperiled by that mini-skirt, if nothing else) OR his abilities to get her to a Church every now and then.

I'd argue that Turlough attended church when at Brendon "Public School", but Very reucltantly at best...

Yes - it's such a pity that a non-conformist like Turlough didn't have the guts to tell the school where to stuff their Church-attendance. (I'm assuming he didn't, as it would certainly have gone on the Headmaster's list of complaints, like not joining the CCF...)

The really sad thing about Katarina that no one remembers is that she got booted for being from Earth's past but just a year later they create Jamie - with the only big difference being their sex

You gotta love good old fashioned family sexism...

Jamie was only chosen for a regular very late in the day, in fact 2 endings for the Highlanders were shot just in case.

And Jamie WAS capable of functioning in his future, albeit while looking rather gormless (just like every other Companion, then). Whereas Katarina just couldn't take it, being reduced to babbling religious gibberish (OK, as it happens said gibberish was spot-on but that's not the POINT).

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Mike's summary, moved from the 'Novels: Frobisher' section:

I have to admit I have a bit of a soft spot for Frobisher. I think it's hilarious that a shape-shifter, who can be anything he wants, decides to spend most of his time in the form of a penguin. I'll bet "Deep Space Nine" would have been a lot more interesting if Odo had done something like that...

Frobisher got his start in a Doctor Who graphic novel, but has since appeared in a PDA (Mission: Impractical) and several BFAAs.


Well, only one audio, The Holy Terror. But he was so adorable in it that I decided not to have a fit of hysterics at the thought of something from unspeakable and definitely uncanonical comic strips making it into REAL continuity.

It's 2 audio's now Emily. Big Finish, have released The Maltese Penguin, as a retail item. It was a suscriber-only "freebie", but they've decided to put it out as a retail item! I think it retails at 10 GBP ($15), in the U.K. I'm in 2 minds about Frobisher, as a shapeshifter, it's too close to Monopoly's "Get Out of Jail Free" card for comfort, but as a penguin, too limited ?
Mark

Ten quid? How long is it? Is there ANYTHING Who-related that won't be flogged off to innocent fans for vast sums of money, even the utterly unspeakable, not to mention free on the Net, Death Comes to Time?

Does anyone know if those *spits* comic strips explained WHY Mr All-Powerful Shape-Changer CHOSE to waddle through life?

70 minutes, Emily, & personally I thought it was the artists/writers just being lazy. Mr Ayim Tarklin, as Frobisher was formerly known, was basically a blob, wearing a Suit & Glasses. As I remember,Josiah Dogbolter put a bounty on the 5th Doctor's head, when he refused to sell the Tardis to him & "Frobisher" went after him for the money . As to why he's currently a penguin, he caught the disease "Mono-Morphia", which caused him to lose his shapechangeing abilities, (Think Odo's Punsihment from the Founders in ST:DS9), and he got stuck in penguin form.

70 minutes, Emily, & personally I thought it was the artists/writers just being lazy. Mr Ayim Tarklin, as Frobisher was formerly known, was basically a blob, wearing a Suit & Glasses. As I remember,Josiah Dogbolter put a bounty on the 5th Doctor's head, when he refused to sell the Tardis to him & "Frobisher" went after him for the money . As to why he's currently a penguin, he caught the disease "Mono-Morphia", which caused him to lose his shapechangeing abilities, (Think Odo's Punishment from the Founders in ST:DS9), and he got stuck in penguin form.

EEEK! A Chronic Hystersis, or the last poster haiitng the wrong key, while editing. You Choose ?

Oh, chronic hystersis, definitely.

In my (admittedly limited, cos I wouldn't touch the comics with a barge-pole and I can't remember a single thing about The Maltese Penguin to save my life) experience, Frobisher isn't stuck. He still has the ability to change the shape of his nose and to morph himself some black-and-white pants (The Holy Terror) and to turn into a Kastrian when attacked (Mission: Impractical).

So he's really got no excuse for being a penguin. Unless you count 'There was something very mellow and calming about being a penguin.' (M:I) Oh! That explains everything!

I think that DWM did a strip featuring a "Future Version" of Frobisher, running a bar called Bish's in their April issue.
It was a spoof of Cheers called, "Where Nobody Wants To Know Your Name...!"
Mind you, the latest issue of In-Vision has a "what if...?" section, & one "what if...?" involved a "Animatronic" Frobisher as a companion to Colin Baker's Doctor...

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Mike's summary, moved from the 'Novels: Iris Wildthyme' section:

Love her or hate her, you can't ignore her. Iris has been in several EDAs and PDAs, and has recently crossed over into the audio world (with her voice provided by Katy "Jo" Manning!).

Iris may or may not be a Time Lord. She does have a TARDIS which is in even worse shape than the Doctor's, and takes the form of a double-decker bus. She has an incorrigible habit of passing off many of the Doctor's adventures as her own, to the point where no one can tell when she's telling the truth.



Boy, are you gonna regret complaining about the lack of controversy about putting up audio Companions, Mike! GET THIS ***** OFF MY BULLETIN BOARD!!!! It's not that I dislike the character, she was good fun the first few times. It's that her appearing every single bloody time Paul Magrs strings two words together (even in his non-Who books, apparently, not that I've read them) is getting beyond a joke. I'm sick to death of her and her bus and her crush on the Doctor and her gold lame handbag. And I don't see why she should count as a Companion when darling Wolsey doesn't. He was in far more stories, and he's a lot more intelligent, not to mention all-round adorable.

She's got her own series of audio adventures now...

MODERATOR'S NOTE: This is Mike's original summary from the now-abolished-cos-she-SO-doesn't-qualify 'Companions: Sara Kingdom' section:

I wish there had been a way to keep Sara Kingdom around as a companion. She could be considered a precursor of Ace, with her butt-kicking attitude.


I'm still not sure why Sara Kingdom is considered a companion when she was only around for one story, even if it WAS the longest DW story ever.
It's like saying Carstairs of 'The War Games' was a companion, or Professor Litefoot of 'Talons of Weng Chiang' was a companion.

As to just WHY she didn't stick around for more stories, I guess it's because the sixties DW production team felt the sixties DW audience just wasn't ready for that sort of companion yet.

I define a companion as someone that travelled with the Doctor in the TARDIS. Sara K. traveled to multiple destinations during this storyline.

You have to stretch this definition to allow the companions of the 8th Doctor. I believe they only traveled into temporal orbit.

Carstairs and Litefoot didn't even enter the TARDIS.

I realize Yates never entered the TARDIS, but qualifies under the multiple appearance clause, Section 3, Paragraph A.

If you'd still like to discuss Carstairs or Litefoot, feel free to under the Misc. Characters section.

Some may argue that others who travelled with the Doctor in the TARDIS are not considered companions, such as Hugo in The Twin Dilemma or Eldrad in The Hand Of Fear. But certainly not me.
What it boils down to is the production team saying "This is the new companion" and it doesn't whether they travel in the TARDIS or not or are only around for one story (Liz never travelled in the TARDIS, either).

Did you know Sara Kingdom was somehow going to be miraculously revived for Terry Nation's proposed Dalek series he was trying to sell to the US in the 60s?

Yes, I believe I read it in some 'Dr. Who and the Daleks' book. I don't think the book said how Sara Kingdom would be returned from the dead (whether the Time Destructor reversed and brought her back, or whether her appearances in the Dalek series were to take place before her untimely demise on Kembel).

The spinoff, as most of us are aware, never happened. And it probably never will, now that Terry Nation is no longer with us, unless it happens in a manner similiar to Gene Roddenberry's 'Earth: Final Conflict' and 'Andromeda'.

What about Bret Vyon then ? Could he be counted as a Companion, If Sara Kingdom is counted as one, even if they both only lasted for 1 story ?

I'm going by the Who reference books. Sara's always referred to as a companion, but never Vyon. Don't know why; I guess it's just another example of the unfairness of the universe.

I wonder if Emily would have moved Katarina out of the Companions section if her actress Adrienne Hill were still alive and touring the convention circut?

I wonder if Emily would have moved Katarina out of the Companions section if her actress Adrienne Hill were still alive and touring the convention circut?

To be honest, I didn't even realise she was dead...Katarina and Sara were frogmarched into this section solely on the grounds that they blatantly obviously weren't Companions. (And if only Kamelion didn't have so many posts he'd've gone the same way.)

Everyone else regards Katarina as a Companion - the BBC official site, the Tardis Index File Wiki, Wikipedia...

Here's a post with extracts of the 1986 interview Adrienne Hill did with DWM - http://drwhointerviews.wordpress.com/2009/10/09/adrienne-hill-1986/

But in the case of Sara, even the actress doesn't consider her character a companion,

Five episodes just aren't enough. I don't care if Katarina (just about) spans more than one story - so does Pete Tyler, Alpha Centuri, Harriet Jones, Corporal Bell and co. And I don't care if she travels in the TARDIS - so does a bunch of policemen, space-freighter-crew, twins, kidnapped scientists, etc etc.

In my book, Katarina and Sara are both companions, and listed as such on my Who-review blog... Katarina by virtue of a TARDIS trip spanning multiple episodes and an epitaph by the Doctor (okay, I admit that as the weaker case) and Sara as a multi-TARDIS-trip, Doctor-aiding individual, despite only being within one serial. Both were clearly accepted by the Doctor as members of the crew, and, technical definitions aside, that's enough for me. Brett... not so much.

But Katarina was definitely a companion in spirit (even if she only had one TARDIS trip, potentially putting her on the Pete Tyler/Harriet Jones/etc. level), and Sara was definitely a repeated time-traveler accepted as a companion by the Doctor- just because all of those trips take place within one serial doesn't mean that they don't count. In fact, a quick calculation indicated 6 trips in the TARDIS (counting the cricket match bit, sure- but also discounting the short story additional trips: Kembel to police station, police station to Hollywood, Hollywood to cricket match, cricket match to Tigus, Tigus to Egypt, Egypt to Kembel)- the same number of trips that 'confirmed' companion Dodo took onscreen. (Massacre to Ark, Ark to Ark, Ark to Toymaker Realm, Toymaker Realm to Tombstone, Tombstone to Savages, Savages to London). OKay, maybe not a stellar comparison, but still... :-) I'll fight for Sara's right to companionhood even if poor martyr Katarina doesn't make the list... :-)

In my book, Katarina and Sara are both companions, and listed as such on my Who-review blog...

You have a Who-review blog...? WHERE?

Katarina by virtue of a TARDIS trip spanning multiple episodes

Four-and-a-half episodes is hardly MULTIPLE. Especially in THOSE days when a single story must have averaged six episodes, at least.

and an epitaph by the Doctor (okay, I admit that as the weaker case)

Yeah - that Doc'll epitaph ANYONE. Lytton. The Giant Robot. A Cybermat. ('Out, out, dusty death...')

and Sara as a multi-TARDIS-trip, Doctor-aiding individual, despite only being within one serial.

And not even one complete story at that! And working AGAINST the Doctor for the first part of it to boot!

Both were clearly accepted by the Doctor as members of the crew

Yeah, and so was Arthur the Horse.

Brett... not so much.

And why not?! He meets exactly the same criteria as Sara!

and Sara was definitely a repeated time-traveler

It's not all about travelling in time, as Liz Shaw and Mike Yates could no doubt tell you...

"You have a Who-review blog...? WHERE?" - Emily
http://geekbat.blogspot.com/
It's a blog my wife and I run (she's the talent behind all of the perfect picture accompaniments- she really has a knack for finding the right images). Actually, the first series or so is mainly re-purposed Nitcentral posts (pretty sure I even reference a few of your points)- but eventually I started writing them in blog format full time (which is why I stopped posting thoughts for every serial here). Currently, I've only posted up through Sensorites, but I have blogs written all the way up through Seeds of Doom.

"Four-and-a-half episodes is hardly MULTIPLE. Especially in THOSE days when a single story must have averaged six episodes, at least." - Emily
True. I should've said multiple Serials, anyhow, but even then, I admit the evidence is weak on Katarina's side. :-)

"And not even one complete story at that! And working AGAINST the Doctor for the first part of it to boot!" - Emily
Well, if you have to take humble beginnings into consideration for companionhood qualification, how many companions could really measure up? :-)

"And why not?! He meets exactly the same criteria as Sara!" - Emily
Never actually traveled in the TARDIS. Sara got at least 6 trips- which I stand by (a.k.a. 'The Dodo Defense'. Though I'd be almost as happy with simply disqualifying Dodo as a companion as I would with getting Sara instated...) :-)

"It's not all about travelling in time, as Liz Shaw and Mike Yates could no doubt tell you..." - Emily
Slowly but surely, one serial at a time... someday, I will get references such as these! :-)

BTW, Emily- are you familiar with the 'Running Through Corridors' book that came out just recently? Just got it myself, and looking very much forward to it!

http://geekbat.blogspot.com/

I'm sorry. I will give it a proper look sometime but at the moment I'm still boggling at 'We're God-blessed Newlyweds! So far life has been wonderful and we are going to keep working at keeping it that way by the grace and help of God. We love Star Trek, Godzilla, Star Wars, Homestarrunner.com, C.S. Lewis, and Cinnamon Rolls.'

You can see how I might have a couple of problems...

"And not even one complete story at that! And working AGAINST the Doctor for the first part of it to boot!" - Emily
Well, if you have to take humble beginnings into consideration for companionhood qualification, how many companions could really measure up? :-)

Well, I'm just mean and expect them to be working WITH the Doctor for longer than they're trying to kill him. Turlough manages it. (Chang Lee on the other hand...)

"And why not?! He meets exactly the same criteria as Sara!" - Emily
Never actually traveled in the TARDIS.

Look, if the Doc decides to do a little space and/or time travel with Bret outside of the blue box, who are we to complain? Are you seriously suggesting that it's only River's brief (well, excluding time-loops) trips in the TARDIS that make her a Companion?

Slowly but surely, one serial at a time... someday, I will get references such as these! :-)

*Shakes head in disbelief*

Let's just say that a LOT of that UNIT bunch have to take their Madman without his Box...

BTW, Emily- are you familiar with the 'Running Through Corridors' book that came out just recently? Just got it myself, and looking very much forward to it!

I am eons behind on a) reading the non-fiction stuff, and b) writing up reviews for the ones I HAVE read, so frankly I'm not inclined to cough up a fortune for a glorified Who marathon that only covers the first of many, many decades...obviously I'll succumb sooner or later, but in the meantime there's a Reference Books section under Apocrypha that you can give us your opinions in...

"I'm sorry. I will give it a proper look sometime but at the moment I'm still boggling at 'We're God-blessed Newlyweds! So far life has been wonderful and we are going to keep working at keeping it that way by the grace and help of God. We love Star Trek, Godzilla, Star Wars, Homestarrunner.com, C.S. Lewis, and Cinnamon Rolls.'
You can see how I might have a couple of problems..." - Emily

You don't like the Homestar Runner cartoons? Admittedly, they are a bit silly, but really great fun once you get into them... ;-)
(Actually... we really ought to update that section anyhow...)


"Look, if the Doc decides to do a little space and/or time travel with Bret outside of the blue box, who are we to complain? Are you seriously suggesting that it's only River's brief (well, excluding time-loops) trips in the TARDIS that make her a Companion?" - Emily

Well... that's a point. Honestly, I didn't count River as a companion based on the events that we've seen. I counted her more as a companion-to-be based on trips to the future.
I suppose I consider a companion to be someone that travels with the Doctor with the intent of doing so on an ongoing basis (even if that's cut short)- which would possibly qualify River, Katarina, Sara, and Brett (though Sara and Brett's intentions beyond stopping Chen are unclear). I suppose I count TARDIS travel as a sort of barometer between guest star (clearly only able to travel with the Doctor during one scenario) and companion (clearly involved in ongoing travel with the Doctor beyond just the convenience of working together on the current scenario). Ironically, by that criterion, Sara fails. :-) So does Astrid Peth (who I never really considered a companion; the one-offs never seemed like actual companions to me- the only difference between them and a random guest star is that they're in a specially marked episode.) and probably some important companions I'm not considering, so I'm not going to claim that's a perfect standard. I dunno... to me, I guess that companionhood is more a matter of intent and spirit than a definable criteria of duration or trip numbers. Sara FELT like a companion to me. So did Katarina. Brett didn't. :-) Clearly I need a refinement in my qualifying conditions. :-)

"Slowly but surely, one serial at a time... someday, I will get references such as these! :-)
*Shakes head in disbelief*" - Emily

Having just torn through The Space Pirates (and its odd Texan/Brit hybrid accent), we've made the solid march through every reconstruction in order without skipping. I have every confidence that nothing can stop us now... not even Colin Baker! :-) In fact... tonight, Spearhead in Space! The color era begins!!! :-D

"Let's just say that a LOT of that UNIT bunch have to take their Madman without his Box..." - Emily

True, I hadn't considered that; I guess we'll be seeing that for ourselves shortly, eh? :-) If a companion's just accompanying the Doctor, then- which I could see, as per the UNIT bunch, that opens the door to a lot of entries- from Brett, Sara, and Katarina to Craig from The Lodger. :-) Still, if you decide to narrow down that list to 'accompanies the Doctor for multiple serials/episodes,' there are still problems. It weeds out Sara and Brett, sure- but also Astrid, Wilf, etc. And it still qualifies Katarina right alongside Captain Jack, River, and other a-few-timers. Maybe professor Travers. Heck... I think it qualifies Jackie. :-) So I feel like just the with-the-Doctor-for-multiple-serials doesn't work either. Even if you impose a they-must-come-with-him-not-just-he-comes-to-them modifier to sort things out. Neither does TARDIS travel, as it leaves out the UNIT bunch, presumably. Hmmmmmm... perhaps it deserves its own board- "What qualifies a companion?"

It also leaves the question of Adam.

I admit he messed up,but I also feel that given a chance-he could have been a great companion(if only the Doctor hadn't been a quick tempered *******).

I'd say that by Andrew first idea-he still should be listed as a companion.

Andrews first idea-is what I meant.

Ack! That means poor Katarina is comparable to Adam- what a horrid thought! Hasn't she suffered enough??? :-) (Though I do agree the guy was a little harshly misjudged. Especially if the original deleted 'Father's cancer' motivation is still true of him. Makes you wonder if things would've been different had Fathers Day already happened- Rose screwed the world up a heck of a lot more for the same reason. But alas, we shall never know...)

Andrew:Ack! That means poor Katarina is comparable to Adam- what a horrid thought! Hasn't she suffered enough??? :-) (Though I do agree the guy was a little harshly misjudged. Especially if the original deleted 'Father's cancer' motivation is still true of him. Makes you wonder if things would've been different had Fathers Day already happened- Rose screwed the world up a heck of a lot more for the same reason. But alas, we shall never know...)

In the one Katarina scene I've seen-she willingly gave her life to stop evil.

This gives her a place as a companion on my list.

Yes, I feel Adam was mistreated-Eccy messed that one up--and I doubt I'll forgive him for that.

Since the only thing that stopped Eccy from bailing on Rose(18 years from where she belonged) in Fathers Day was that the inside of the Tardis was missing--I'd guess that it wouldn't(it's another of the things I dislike about the Eccy Doctor).

(Actually... we really ought to update that section anyhow...)

Exactly! A bit of an update, that's all it needs! Dump the mentions of the wife, the god, the lesser programmes and the cinnamon rolls, and tell everyone how you found the love of the Lord Doctor instead...

Well... that's a point. Honestly, I didn't count River as a companion based on the events that we've seen. I counted her more as a companion-to-be based on trips to the future.

She's already had three stories and six episodes...the equivalent of TWELVE Old Who eps (only a lot better...) AND she'll be back, soon enough...the poor Doctor isn't going to be left to enjoy his Stetson in peace...

I suppose I consider a companion to be someone that travels with the Doctor with the intent of doing so on an ongoing basis

But as well as disqualifying the UNIT guys, we'd also lose Ian, Barbara, Polly, Ben, Harry, and (at least for their first year or so) Tegan and Jo.

Astrid Peth (who I never really considered a companion; the one-offs never seemed like actual companions to me- the only difference between them and a random guest star is that they're in a specially marked episode.)

Hear, hear!

Except Wilf, of course...but then, he WAS already around as Donna's granddad. People who try to dismiss poor darling Jackie always seem happy to accept HIM for some reason.

Clearly I need a refinement in my qualifying conditions. :-)

We all do. There's no narrowing it down to one cut-off criteria...we should try to compose a list of AT LEAST ten Companionish qualities (some worth more points than others? Being in more than one story should definitely score higher than being in the opening credits (I mean, just look at CAPTAIN JACK getting the billing in Season 3/29 where he did NOTHING but not in Season 1/27...) and anyone who met, what, 75% of 'em could be considered a Companion.

In fact... tonight, Spearhead in Space! The color era begins!!! :-D

Your life is about to get glorious (as well as technicoloured)!

Still, if you decide to narrow down that list to 'accompanies the Doctor for multiple serials/episodes,' there are still problems. It weeds out Sara and Brett, sure- but also Astrid, Wilf, etc. And it still qualifies Katarina

The hell it does! 1/4 of a story plus 4/12 of a story adds up to less than ONE story, let alone MULTIPLE ones...

Heck... I think it qualifies Jackie. :-)

*Glares* I think you'll find that Jackie is a True Companion. She has her very own section on this board - what more proof could you possibly want?

It also leaves the question of Adam.

Over my dead body. TWO PALTRY EPISODES - one of which was spent running away from a Dalek leaving Rose to get exterminated by it, the other of which involved betraying the Doctor, Rose and the entire human race for financial gain - do NOT a Companion make.

If the episodes in question had been, say, Aliens of London and World War Three no one in the UNIVERSE would be calling Adam a Companion. Should the fact the TWO PALTRY EPISODES happen to be two separate stories REALLY tip the scales so drastically?

In the one Katarina scene I've seen-she willingly gave her life to stop evil.

This gives her a place as a companion on my list.

What, along with Harriet, the Hostess, Rattigan, Jabe, the Face of Boe (well, I guess HE is kinda on the Companion list...), the Castrovalva Librarian, the Dalek from Dalek, whatshisname from Tooth and Claw, etc etc etc...?

Yes, I feel Adam was mistreated-Eccy messed that one up--and I doubt I'll forgive him for that.

Forgive him for WHAT, exactly? Not wanting a lying, profit-obsessed hole-headed back-stabbing, self-centred git in his TARDIS lusting after his Companion?

Adam had a chance I'd kill or die for. He blew it. Personally I'm delighted the Doctor actually did the 'No Second Chances' thing for once.

Since the only thing that stopped Eccy from bailing on Rose(18 years from where she belonged) in Fathers Day was that the inside of the Tardis was missing

There's no WAY Eccy would've abanded Rose, as she knew full well and he later admitted. But OF COURSE he had to have a blazing row with her and storm out - you'd've been the first to condemn him if he hadn't.

Ech, Adric The Second. Forget about him, he was a mistake from day one. Thankfully, RTD came to his sense and dumped him.

Emily:Except Wilf, of course...but then, he WAS already around as Donna's granddad. People who try to dismiss poor darling Jackie always seem happy to accept HIM for some reason.

Since no Dalek has ever killed a Doctor--I'd put him in monsters.

Emily: Over my dead body. TWO PALTRY EPISODES - one of which was spent running away from a Dalek leaving Rose to get exterminated by it, the other of which involved betraying the Doctor, Rose and the entire human race for financial gain - do NOT a Companion make.

He was more loyal to Rose than the Doctor--you know,the one who cried after locking her in with a cranky Dalek.

And since Adam was trying to help humanity(on a time line that he already been told was messed up)--and was dumped alone in a strange new world;I don't see him as betraying anyone.

And since 2 New Who episodes equals 4 Old Who episodes--AND is 2 full stories--I'd say he rates mention.

Tim:Ech, Adric The Second. Forget about him, he was a mistake from day one. Thankfully, RTD came to his sense and dumped him.

As I said above--I feel that Adam could have been one of the great companions. All he needed was a fair chance.

Emily:There's no WAY Eccy would've abanded Rose, as she knew full well and he later admitted. But OF COURSE he had to have a blazing row with her and storm out - you'd've been the first to condemn him if he hadn't.

After the way he dumped Adam in the story just before this one--it looked to me like our hero was bailing on Rose. And since IIRC only one companion has ever been re-admited to the Tardis after being left behind(Tegan)--I think that says it all.

BTW-didn't he bail on Captain Jack just a few stories later???

Ech, Adric The Second. Forget about him, he was a mistake from day one. Thankfully, RTD came to his sense and dumped him.

RTG didn't come to his senses, this was ALWAYS planned - to have someone who SEEMED like the perfect companion (a genius who yearned to see the stars) screw up incredibly badly, thus proving how perfect Rose is. Plus to have a companion piece to Rose (the episode, not the person) in which - instead of seeing the mysterious Doctor through Rose's eyes - we see the mysterious Doctor and Rose through Adam's.

He was more loyal to Rose than the Doctor--you know,the one who cried after locking her in with a cranky Dalek.

Fair enough. If there's one thing I won't defend in the whole of New Who, it's the Doctor TOTALLY UNNECESSARILY locking Rose up with a Dalek he was UTTERLY CONVINCED would exterminate her (rather than the usual Dalek thing of imprisoning/enslaving/leg-paralysing, etc). What a git.

And since Adam was trying to help humanity(on a time line that he already been told was messed up)--and was dumped alone in a strange new world;I don't see him as betraying anyone.

The 200,000 timeline was messed up; that's hardly an excuse for Adam trying to mess up the 2012 timeline. And when exactly was he dumped alone in a strange new world?

And since 2 New Who episodes equals 4 Old Who episodes--AND is 2 full stories--I'd say he rates mention.

But four Old Who episodes barely constitute one Old Who story! And I think the distinction between stories is overrated. Especially in New Who and old Old Who where a) every episode has a different title anyway, and b) the end of one story frequently leads in to the beginning of the next.

(Suppose we'd seen those Earthshock soldiers being ushered out of the TARDIS door at the beginning of Timeflight? Would THAT make them Companions? If not, how much of Timeflight would they have to be in?)

As I said above--I feel that Adam could have been one of the great companions. All he needed was a fair chance.

I suppose once the Doctor had browbeaten the smug superiority out of him, and instilled some much-needed altruism, Adam might have been bearable. But why bother? Kick him out the nearest airlock, wait just one episode, and hey presto! CAPTAIN JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!

After the way he dumped Adam in the story just before this one--it looked to me like our hero was bailing on Rose.

You're forgetting that Rose is the woman he loves. (It must be true: a Dalek said so.) Whereas Adam was the man trying to get off with the woman the Doctor loves. You can understand there might be a certain discrepancy in their treatment.

And since IIRC only one companion has ever been re-admited to the Tardis after being left behind(Tegan)--I think that says it all.

Yeah, this WAS in the days before the TARDIS developed a revolving door...

BTW-didn't he bail on Captain Jack just a few stories later???

Hell, yeah - miserable stinking traitor after the Captain had DIED for him. (See above for explanation of this discrepancy.)

Emily:RTG didn't come to his senses, this was ALWAYS planned

Really-if I had known that, I'd have dropped New Who right then and there.

Emily:to have someone who SEEMED like the perfect companion (a genius who yearned to see the stars) screw up incredibly badly, thus proving how perfect Rose is.

Well, since Rose screwed up even worse in both the previous story,and the one after it-it seems unfair how badly he was treated.

Emily: Plus to have a companion piece to Rose (the episode, not the person) in which - instead of seeing the mysterious Doctor through Rose's eyes - we see the mysterious Doctor and Rose through Adam's.

And made it more clear to me that I hate Eccy.

Emily:The 200,000 timeline was messed up; that's hardly an excuse for Adam trying to mess up the 2012 timeline

From where Adam sat-the future was not fixed. This means he was trying to create a new and better future for his people-who knows, maybe if Earth had gotten the boost thathe tried to give it humans would have stopped the Daleks before the Last Great Time War.

Emily:And when exactly was he dumped alone in a strange new world?

For most of the his one Tardis story.

Here he is-in the year 200,000,he's handed an unlimited credit card--and told to go away(by both Rose and the Doctor). He then looks for something to do-this is where he got into trouble(he had no training for dealing with push salespeople)-and yes,he did mess up(although it was mostly an easy fix-unlike either of Roses).
Also--has he seen anything to cause him to have faith in anything the Doctor says??

Emily:But four Old Who episodes barely constitute one Old Who story!

Old Who stories could be anything from one to thirteen stories(depending how you treat The Key to Time-it could be twenty-six)-four is just most common. In New Who-2 stories are 2 stories.

Emily:a) every episode has a different title anyway, and b) the end of one story frequently leads in to the beginning of the next.

These are just two tricks used to gain viewers-a lot of shows used them at the time.

A is used to catch new viewers-people are more likely to stop for The Tribe of Gum than An Unearthly Child part 2.

And B is just a way of bringing back old viewers-to find out what happens. A lot of shows used this trick.

Emily: (Suppose we'd seen those Earthshock soldiers being ushered out of the TARDIS door at the beginning of Timeflight? Would THAT make them Companions? If not, how much of Timeflight would they have to be in?)

Depends on huw you define companions--if you got their name-maybe.

Emily:I suppose once the Doctor had browbeaten the smug superiority out of him, and instilled some much-needed altruism, Adam might have been bearable.

Gee-that's big of you. Most companions need time to learn the ropes.

Adam did have things to learn-that's one of the marks of a good companion- he just hit Eccy on a bad day. I feel any other Doctor would have treated him better.

Emily: Kick him out the nearest airlock, wait just one episode, and hey presto! CAPTAIN JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!

As I've given my opinion on Captain Jack elsewhere-all I'll say here is:I rather watch Adam any time.

Emily:You're forgetting that Rose is the woman he loves. (It must be true: a Dalek said so.)

You're taking a Daleks word on love--what makes you think they know anything about it????

And,as I said elsewhere, at this point I don't think it's love- still looks like lust to me.

Emily:Whereas Adam was the man trying to get off with the woman the Doctor loves. You can understand there might be a certain discrepancy in their treatment.

So you're admitting he was treated unfairly....

Emily:Yeah, this WAS in the days before the TARDIS developed a revolving door...

I tend to think of it more as the Tardis getting sweet on modern Earth.

Well, since Rose screwed up even worse in both the previous story,and the one after it-it seems unfair how badly he was treated.

But Rose screwed up through compassion - for her dad and for a DALEK. Adam was just being greedy. Plus, Rose APOLOGISED in Father's Day - whereas Adam just babbled excuses - and made it clear she was the only thing preventing the Doctor becoming a monster in Dalek...whereas not even Adam's greatest fan (probably you) could claim he makes the Doctor better...

Emily:The 200,000 timeline was messed up; that's hardly an excuse for Adam trying to mess up the 2012 timeline

From where Adam sat-the future was not fixed.

If he can't grasp the most basic of time-travelling facts, the Doctor was totally right to kick him out of that TARDIS asap.

This means he was trying to create a new and better future for his people

There's no evidence Adam was thinking of anyone but himself.

Emily:And when exactly was he dumped alone in a strange new world?

For most of the his one Tardis story.

Here he is-in the year 200,000,he's handed an unlimited credit card--and told to go away(by both Rose and the Doctor).

ADAM was the one who decided he wanted some peace and quiet all alone! So he could engage in criminal activities! Pardon ME if Rose and the Doctor took him at his word and went off to SAVE THE HUMAN RACE...

Also--has he seen anything to cause him to have faith in anything the Doctor says??

He's perfectly entitled to take every word of the Doc's with a pinch of salt. He ought, however, in all humility, to realise that this Lord of Time - and even Rose - knew a LOT more about this time-travel lark than HE did.

Most companions need time to learn the ropes.

Most Companions GET time cos the Doc's unable to steer that TARDIS and dump 'em right back where they came from. New series Doctors just don't have this problem...

Emily:You're forgetting that Rose is the woman he loves. (It must be true: a Dalek said so.)

You're taking a Daleks word on love--what makes you think they know anything about it????

Alright, I was being slightly sarcastic there...

And,as I said elsewhere, at this point I don't think it's love- still looks like lust to me.

Certainly not! It's love or nothing.

So you're admitting he was treated unfairly....

Yes and no. Yes, in that Rose and Captain Jack were treated more leniently when they screwed up, and no, in that Adam TOTALLY deserved to get kicked out of the nearest airlock...

"You're taking a Daleks word on love--what makes you think they know anything about it????

And,as I said elsewhere, at this point I don't think it's love- still looks like lust to me." - Jep

Good points, both.


"I tend to think of it more as the Tardis getting sweet on modern Earth." - Jep

The TARDIS was always sweet on modern Earth- it's just changed it's moderns. Once upon a time, it was sweet on the 60s and returned there more often than not... :-) Clearly the 2000s are just a phase. :-)

TWO people I wanted for Companions in one episode! This hasn't happened since Talons of Weng-Chiang. (Or at least since City of Death, where I always KNEW that my dream of Scaroth joining the Doctor, Romana, K9 and Duggan in the TARDIS wouldn't really work.)

Rita was great - and come to think of it an Asian Companion is long overdue. (No of course Anji doesn't count.) Has the Doctor EVER reacted to anyone else's loss by smashing things up like that?

But Gibbis was EVEN BETTER. So much gutlessness combined with so much slyness...this is what Turlough SHOULD have been like. And he had the funniest lines EVER. I could listen to stories about his planet every week...*hint hint*...and unlike Rita (and, well, everyone else in that episode bar the TARDIS crew) he's STILL ALIVE!

[b]an Asian Companion is long overdue.[/b]

Yeah, even the Master had one for a while. What kind of message does this send?

Not sure if I should vounteer my wife or not and live vicariously that way...

Yeah, even the Master had one for a while. What kind of message does this send?

Though of course THAT Master could hardly afford to be racist, what with being a snake so recently. Whereas the Simm Master was CLEARLY EVIL not so much cos he wiped out a tenth of Earth's population for the fun of it, but because he called Martha a 'freak' due to her skin colour.

Not sure if I should vounteer my wife or not and live vicariously that way...

You think YOU'D be living vicariously? I'm already planning ways of explaining to your wife that she's my New Best Friend.

Not that I want Who to, as the Master so sarcastically put it, tick all the demographic boxes, and not that addressing the question of the DOCTOR always being a white male isn't more urgent, and not that there isn't an APPALLING bias towards Earthlings already (want Gibbis for Companion and WANT HIM NOW!) but...an Asian Companion would just be NICE.

Though not as nice as Rita. But then, maybe she has a suspiciously-identical-looking cousin, the way Adeola did...

If they did have an Asian companion, you can count down the episodes until they have her go "Herrow Mistah" in that stupid "Asian" accent. An insult to her gender, not to mention her race.

Moderator's Note: Moved from the New Series: Season Six: The God Complex section:

DANNY: And as [Adam] either died hours later or spent his life alone I do empathise with him, it's no fun being lonely.

ME: Oh nonsense, he just spent his life with his mum, like half the male British population do ANYWAY.

Danny, let it go. Adric The Second has been gone from Who for over five years now, and he's not coming back.

He was a mistake, it happens. For those who think RTD doesn't make mistakes, three words come to mind: Torchwood: Miracle Day.

I'm not sure Adam was a mistake. His rather quick exclusion from the TARDIS demonstates the Doctor's value on intentions, even over actions. Rose always meant well, but Adam purposely abused his access to future info and that's what got him booted off the ride of a lifetime. It's a moral statement.

Agree with Amanda. Adam was a foil for Rose and for Companionhood in general. Rose was a girl-next-door with a dead-end job and no prospects. Adam was a genius who knew about life on other planets. But Rose had what it takes to be a companion and Adam didn't.

Wonder where Emily's going to move this to...

The Almost Companions, of course! Where I frog-marched the WHOLE of the 'Adam Mitchell' section the moment I took over.

And before Danny starts mentioning Rose accidentally wiping out five billion people again...the difference between her and Adam is, SHE SAID SORRY.

DANNY in The God Complex: And when Adam's mum died (asuming she didn't run screming, which she would) then what?

Adam lives alone with his dad, eventually inherits a nice house, as well as making millions online through his alleged genius. He'd just have to wear a hat whenever he went out. Or throw himself on UNIT's mercy and ask them to remove the wretched thing.

as I said Rose is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people, nearly billions. I don't see her being condemned.

Really? Which bit of 'You're a stupid ape, **** off and stay in the 80s for all I care' did you not notice? The Doctor only forgave her when she apologised - unlike Adam, who was babbling excuses and justifications and totally failing to take responsibility for his own actions, suggesting he'd do the same thing again given half the chance. Plus Rose then had to watch daddy go splat thanks to her own stupidity, even Eccy in tough mode would think she's been punished enough.

Moderator's Note: Moved from the New Series: Brand New Companion section: Well, RTD says she's a companion, that's good enough for me.

RTG is a known pathological liar (Worship Him!) and there's NO WAY Astrid (or even the infinitely superior Adelaide) counts as a Companion. They were in ONE STORY apiece, and if you counted EVERYONE who temporarily stepped up to give the Doc a hand we'd be counting Duggan...(Alright, bad example, I'd LOVE to count Duggan. We'd be counting Lexa and Rebec and those guys who chucked the Gatherer off the roof.)

There is a way. The Doctor officially invited Astrid to travel with him, and she accepted. At that moment she became a true companion, and the fact that she never made it to the TARDIS afterward is unimportant.

Fair enough - providing Arthur is also counted as a Companion. After all, the Doctor officially announced he was taking HIM aboard the TARDIS ('You can't keep the horse' 'I let you keep Mickey!') AND gave him the traditional new-Companion-lecture of 'Don't wander off'. (Admittedly the Doctor then betrayed n'abandoned poor darling Arthur but as he did the same five minutes later to Rose, Mickey AND Reinette, he shouldn't take it personally.)

Sounds good to me.

Just remember, IIRC Adam also fits these rules.

When does he get his section in companions????

Adam will take his place amongst the New Who Companions at the same time as Arthur, Reinette, Lynda-with-a-y, Jenny, Astrid, and Rita.

So there.

None of those (don't remember Rita) actually traveled in the TARDIS.

Agreed - it takes more than ONE criteria to be a Companion.

Rita was that delightful woman from God Complex. Alright, so she didn't actually AGREE to travel in the TARDIS, but she didn't say '**** off and die' like Joan Redfern - she obviously WOULD have joined up, especially after the Doctor went to the trouble of sacking Amy for her...

Adam fits every criteria to be a companion except one--Emily doesn't like him.

He was important in 2 stories.

He met all rules stated above.

He made a mistake(most companions mess up at least once).

He did travel in the TARDIS.

He was betrayed by Eccy(Eccy betrayed EVERY companion he had at least once).

He tried to advance mankind--and since Eccy had already stated that the timeline was messed up I'm not to concerned with saving it(note:I don't think Adam was after money--I think he was trying to set thing up so he would fit(one is not a freak if everyone else is getting computer ports in their heads-you're just ahead of the curve).

Also notice: due to Eccys hissy fit he not only left the very tech he was limiting(between Adams port, and what survived on what was left of his answering machine--a lot of clues were left), he failed to even notice the real problem(the Daleks).

So I would say that Adam deserves the title of companion--more than Eccy deserves the title of Doctor.

Give him his section--or remove that of the Eccy-traitor!!!!

No, no, no, no section for Adric The Second. It's bad enough the original Adric has one, granted how 90% of Who fans loathe the creature.

Don't give his annoying clone a section, Emily.

I liked Adam far more than I ever liked Captain Jack--and he has his own section.

The good Captain Con-man should have been sent to the same place Adric went in his final story.

Also--as far as I can see Eccy had 2 things going for him:

1) Rose was there.

2) It had been 16 years since there were any new shows--the fans would have happily watched C.B. return if that was the only choise.

So Tim, by your logic we should dump the Eccy section(or should I say the C.B. the Second section).

You know--that does sound like a good idea to me!!!!!!

Adam fits every criteria to be a companion except one--Emily doesn't like him.

Hey - THAT is irrelevant.

(Well, alright, it's just possible that Jackie and Wilf wouldn't have their own sections if I didn't happen to adore them, but...Mel's still there, isn't she?)

He was important in 2 stories.

So was Lytton.

He met all rules stated above.

ALL the rules? We were only discussing ONE rule - being officially accepted as a Companion. Like that wonderful horse.

He made a mistake(most companions mess up at least once).

This is the Whoniverse. The Companions make mistakes. The Doctors make mistakes. The baddies make mistakes. The extras make mistakes. It doesn't really help narrow the field. (If the Doctor had SNOGGED Adam, or had visited him in End of Time...THAT would be a different matter.)

He did travel in the TARDIS.

Sadly so devalued by the Davison Era as to be rendered near-meaningless.

He was betrayed by Eccy(Eccy betrayed EVERY companion he had at least once).

*Gasps of outrage*

(note:I don't think Adam was after money

In the original script Adam was about getting a cure for his father's arthritis (or something). Sadly (for you!) that didn't make the final cut, meaning that from what we saw on-screen, Adam WAS after money.

I think he was trying to set thing up so he would fit(one is not a freak if everyone else is getting computer ports in their heads-you're just ahead of the curve).

You think that if it makes you feel any better about the git. Meaning well doesn't necessarily make a Companion, though - River's a total psycho and Turlough wanted to smash the Doctor's skull in.

due to Eccys hissy fit he not only left the very tech he was limiting(between Adams port, and what survived on what was left of his answering machine--a lot of clues were left)

The sonic would know how to disintegrate all the info in a phone! And are you telling me you'd be happier if Eccy had abandoned Adam in 200,000?

he failed to even notice the real problem(the Daleks)

Well, they WERE hiding REALLY WELL.

Though I'll admit that it WAS a bit selfish of Eccy to swan off smugly assuming history would snap back on-track, not noticing that he'd just accidentally collapsed Earth's economy...

...though in his defence, a) that's what EVERY Doctor does, EVERY time, and b) he had to get Adam out of there before the greedy cretin did any more harm....

Give him his section--or remove that of the Eccy-traitor!!!!

*Strikes heroic pose* NEVER!

Don't give his annoying clone a section, Emily.

Don't you worry.

I liked Adam far more than I ever liked Captain Jack--and he has his own section.

And as soon as Adam has appeared in eleven episodes of Who AND got four seasons of his own spin-off Who-related series, he'd have his own section, I promise.

Me:Adam fits every criteria to be a companion except one--Emily doesn't like him.

Emily:Hey - THAT is irrelevant.

She starts her defence---

Emily: (Well, alright, it's just possible that Jackie and Wilf wouldn't have their own sections if I didn't happen to adore them,

And then proves my point.

Almost companions is where both of those 2 belong(either there or villians).

Emily:but...Mel's still there, isn't she?)

Sorry Emily--I don't think there's much either of us can do about Mel.

Emily:ALL the rules? We were only discussing ONE rule - being officially accepted as a Companion. Like that wonderful horse.

Look again-I seem to see at least 3(and the horse-being a stupid animal-doesn't count).

Emily:*Gasps of outrage*

But no claim that I'm wrong.

Emily:In the original script Adam was about getting a cure for his father's arthritis (or something). Sadly (for you!) that didn't make the final cut, meaning that from what we saw on-screen, Adam WAS after money.

And you'll notice--I didn't mention it.


Emily:You think that if it makes you feel any better about the git. Meaning well doesn't necessarily make a Companion, though - River's a total psycho and Turlough wanted to smash the Doctor's skull in.

And Sarah Jane betrayed him, and Leela tried to kill him--yet they've all got ther own sections.

Emily:The sonic would know how to disintegrate all the info in a phone!

It would have had to--the Doctor had no clue.

Emily: And are you telling me you'd be happier if Eccy had abandoned Adam in 200,000?

It would have been kinder than what he did-other options include:

1) Keeping him around until finding him a better place.

2) Either removing or turning off the port so Adam can have a normal life.

3) Kill Adam--not a good way--but less painful, and more honest than what he did.

Emily:Well, they WERE hiding REALLY WELL.

Well,since he never looked, we'll never know.

Maybe the Daleks were in plain sight--if he only looked out a window.

Emily:...though in his defence, a) that's what EVERY Doctor does, EVERY time,

Most of the time it's clear the problem is solved--here it wasn't.

Emily:b) he had to get Adam out of there before the greedy cretin did any more harm....

Yes-he needed to throw a hissy fit, beat on his chest,and set up the murder of the one person who could see him for the loser he really was.

I guess he needed to prove his manhood(for once).

Note:like most losers--he lacked the gonads to do the job himself.

Emily:And as soon as Adam has appeared in eleven episodes of Who AND got four seasons of his own spin-off Who-related series, he'd have his own section, I promise.

Sadly--if Adam had run into a real Doctor(anyone other than Eccy) he could have become one of the great companions of all times.

As it was he met Eccy--who set up his death in a hissy fit--poor Adam.

As it was he met Eccy--who set up his death in a hissy fit--poor Adam.

What makes you think Adam is dead, exactly?

Emily: (Well, alright, it's just possible that Jackie and Wilf wouldn't have their own sections if I didn't happen to adore them,

And then proves my point.

Almost companions is where both of those 2 belong(either there or villians).

I wish there WAS some cast-iron set of criteria we could use to judge Companion status, but there isn't. OF COURSE Jackie and Wilf are borderline. But Jackie starred in THIRTEEN EPISODES, Wilf in NINE, they were both visited by the dying Tenth Doctor, they both travelled in the TARDIS, plus Jackie snogged the Doctor, AND met three versions of him (four including DoctorDonna) AND became his mother-in-law, not to mention the Doctor wishing Wilf was his dad (TALK about making an emotional connection)...when compared to Adam, who was on the Doctor's side for all of two minutes (just long enough to hand him a bloody big gun, how unDoctorish and unCompanionish is THAT) THEY make the grade and he...doesn't.

If Adam was just in Dalek even YOU wouldn't DREAM of making him a Companion - but I just don't consider 'appearing in more than one story' to be defining criteria. Which is why I dumped Katarina straight in the Almost Companions when I took over, and would have done so with Kamelion if he hadn't CHEATED and got loads of entries.

What if Timeflight had started one minute earlier and we'd SEEN that gang from Earthshock leaving the TARDIS? Would you have defined THEM as Companions?

Emily:but...Mel's still there, isn't she?)

Sorry Emily--I don't think there's much either of us can do about Mel.

Well, if you were correct and people I didn't like were expunged from Companionship, her section would have got tipped into the bin by now...

(and the horse-being a stupid animal-doesn't count).

How can you say such a thing! Arthur TOTALLY counts! And most of the Companions are stupid animals (apes rather than horses, but so what). Arthur travels in space and time and is officially welcomed into the TARDIS crew and is way more useful than most of them and HEROICALLY smashes through that mirror, and let's face it, he's not THAT much thicker than, say, Katarina. At least he's an ATHEIST horse.

In the original script Adam was about getting a cure for his father's arthritis (or something). Sadly (for you!) that didn't make the final cut, meaning that from what we saw on-screen, Adam WAS after money.

And you'll notice--I didn't mention it.

Though I am wondering if you've read the script book and are allowing it to unconsciously influence your rosy vision of Adam?

And Sarah Jane betrayed him, and Leela tried to kill him--yet they've all got ther own sections.

Yeah, because they spent more than ten minutes ON HIS SIDE as well.

Admittedly Grace Holloway didn't - first she killed the Doctor, then she tried to get him carted off to a lunatic asylum, then she smashed him over the head (admittedly, in the latter case, under hypnosis) - but unfortunately she constituted the entire on-screen Companionship for the Eighth Doctor's era, so she sneaks through.

Emily: And are you telling me you'd be happier if Eccy had abandoned Adam in 200,000?

It would have been kinder than what he did

I don't think so. It's hard enough to adjust to other times if you CHOOSE them. I say Adam would be happier at home with mum and dad and a large hat, rather than stranded on a space station above a planet whose economy and society were about to collapse.

1) Keeping him around until finding him a better place.

NO. That could take YEARS. And UNLIKE ROSE AND CAPTAIN JACK Adam wasn't one for learning from his mistakes - he'd probably have done the same sort of thing all over again, while babbling excuses to himself and the Doctor. And spending one more moment in Eccy's company is a privilege he just hasn't earned.

2) Either removing or turning off the port so Adam can have a normal life.

I doubt the sonic had that sort of setting - and you'd've been the first to complain if Eccy had waved it at Adam's brain and started experimenting.

Kill Adam--not a good way--but less painful, and more honest than what he did.

The Doctor doesn't kill his Companions. Um, deliberately, anyway. Well, he usually doesn't (sorry, Kamelion). And you'd be the first to complain if Eccy put Adam down like a dog.

Maybe the Daleks were in plain sight--if he only looked out a window.

Bad Wolf made it clear they WEREN'T in plain sight. And that WOULD have been a pretty drastic mistake for Daleks to make, given how pathologically secretive they were being, even running GAME SHOWS to hide their presence - SO undignified!

Sadly--if Adam had run into a real Doctor(anyone other than Eccy) he could have become one of the great companions of all times.

That would be where we differ. And I have God on my side. (Russell T God, obviously.) The original name for Long Game was 'The Companion Who Couldn't' and Adam's character was specifically designed to show that, however many brains he possessed, he just didn't have what it took to be a REAL Companion.

As it was he met Eccy--who set up his death in a hissy fit--poor Adam.

Adam is alive and well (more's the pity).

I have addressed your remarks about The Greatest Doctor Ever in the Eccleston section.

Oh, and forgot to mention: the Doctor DIED for Wilf. And when he dies for one individual, they're ALWAYS a Companion. He sure as hell doesn't do that sort of thing for a common-or-garden acquaintance.

Move on JEP- Emily has said no- and honestly, I think you're in a very small minority on this subject. Adam is most certainly NOT deserving of a spot in the companions board.

Adam is most certainly NOT deserving of a spot in the companions board.

I agree, no spot for Adric The Second. Most Who fans don't care about this creature.

Ironically enough, Adders Mark II could now make a case for having his own section on the grounds that, like Kamelion, he's got enough posts to justify it. Even more ironically, this wouldn't have been the case if I'd just LEFT him with his own section in the first place.

I don't care much either way, but he has as much qualification as some of the other companions who have their own pages.

DON'T CARE MUCH EITHER WAY??!!!

Oh. You must have one of those 'life' things...

Not really, but Adam is such a non-issue I can't even muster up enough irritation to protest him.

The character was a mistake from day one. RTD was wise in dropping him.

'Evolution is the response by living organisms to their environment. He's become a major factor in that environment. You are the human response to him.' - Transit-monster to Kadiatu Lethbridge-Stewart, vis-a-vis the Doctor. Great idea for a character - the Doctor himself calls her 'Another player in the game' - but pity she never really went anywhere. Good sub-plot in Also People, but wasted in Happy Endings and I don't even REMEMBER her being in Set Piece.

And I'd STILL like to know if she's genetically related to our Brig...

...especially as THAT'd probably mean Kadiatu turning up in the new series. The Brig's various descendants aren't as uncanonical as we'd assumed.

Frobisher in Mission: Impractical:

'There was something very mellow and calming about being a penguin' – that's IT? THAT’S all the explanation we get for this ridiculous form? If Frobisher's so keen on mellow and calming what the hell is he doing travelling with the Doctor, and the SIXTH Doctor to boot?

Where does the naked Frobisher keep his ID card?

'He had once spent fourteen years of his life as a supermarket till in Walthamstow to be near the girl who worked there' – sorry, how long-lived IS Frobisher? And why didn’t he turn himself into the man of her dreams INSTEAD?

'Frobisher might have been on vacation with the Doctor for a long time, but he still had a detective's instincts' - ON VACATION? THAT'S what you call saving civilisations, defeating monsters and doing a lot of running?

'Having so many lives depending on oneself was incomprehensibly stressful, and Frobisher wished he could just change shape and walk away from all this. How the Doctor kept sane, Frobisher had no idea. Surely it was impossible to become used to having the responsibility for whole planets on your shoulders?' - er...whatever happened to his mellow vacationing?

'He cheated a bit, lengthening his penguin legs to take the stairs more quickly' – well doesn't THAT explain a lot. I could never work out how he managed to stay ALIVE when only able to waddle up and down those corridors.

'I'm still flesh and blood like you. Well, flesh anyway. Prick me, do I not...ooze? Wrong me, shall I not come round your house with a baseball bat that's got nails in it?' – Frobisher doesn't have blood? Frobisher is fixated with vengeance-fuelled vigilante-justice?

Frobisher believes he'll be stuck in a cell for YEARS? Doesn't he trust the Doctor to get 'em out? In fact, didn't he trust his own magical shape-shifting abilities?

Paul Magrs on Iris Wildthyme:

'She was a character who would be a female counterpart to the Doctor. One who seemed to know more about his own past and future than he did, and one who had the tatty diaries to prove it. One who undercut his Time Lord bluster and called him 'sweetie.' A woman who dressed like a homeless drag queen and who travelled the cosmos in a miraculous double decker. She was mysterious, amoral, and possibly sinister. She was the Doctor's unwanted love interest - his Irene Adler, his Catwoman, his Mrs Slocombe. All rolled into one divine - and profane - package.'

I'd never thought of her as quite so River Song-y before.

Maybe Iris was the inspiration for River? The similarities between the two characters is hard to explain otherwise.

Moderator's Note: moved from 'Companions: Original Series: the TARDIS':

Yeah, if the TARDIS took you to New Earth, they could probably grow you new hips.

Himself's refusal to come for me is looking more and more MEAN, isn't it...

I don't think so, Emily.

If you got your hips fixed--by you own rules(about not getting any profit) you'd get dumped as fast as possible(and likely set up to be killed so doctors could study your new hips).

(Just like what was done to Adam!!!!!)

It's not about not getting any profit - Donna got a winning lottery ticket, Amy and Rory got a house and a car - it's about not endangering the entire human race with your greed and then showing no remorse for it.

And if Adam HAD been dismembered I'm sure we'd've seen the bits around the Hub or UNIT HQ by now...

Emily:It's not about not getting any profit - Donna got a winning lottery ticket, Amy and Rory got a house and a car

You're digging yourself with this one--you've always argued the Adams greed was the only reason he was dumped(note:Donna also got a brain issue that when she sees proof of aliens knocks her out and brain-fries everyone around her, and I've read that Amy and Rory are dumped decades before thier correct time(thereby losing both house and car. You know--New Who companionions are really treated like garbage aren't they????)

Emily: it's about not endangering the entire human race with your greed and then showing no remorse for it.

Bull****---It'was all about Eccy showing that he was top dog here!!!!

Both Rose(in fathers Day), and Captain Jack(in his first 2 parter) endangered the entire human race with their greed and showed little to no remorse for it--and they were forgiven for it.

Adam(who was never given a chance to show remorse) after being left on his own in an already corrupted timeline(Eccy said so) tried to improve mankinds future by starting a new explosion in computer tech(getting rich wouldn't hurt--but it wasn't the main goal). He was left to be executed.

Emily:And if Adam HAD been dismembered I'm sure we'd've seen the bits around the Hub or UNIT HQ by now...

Riiiight!!!

What makes you think that--we never got a good look at the research areas or the trophy rooms of either--they could have been there without our ever seeing them.(Let us not forget Torchwood.)

Or for that matter how many other alien stockpiles did we never see on Earth.

(To be honest--I think Adams remains ended up in the the facility we saw in Dalek(they would have the best claim(he still worked there(never quit or was fired) and up on secret alien items--so they would have a good claim to both him and any items he carried)).)

Note:as the place is shown to be recovering at the end of "Dalek", and we never went back to look again--they could be working with his parts everyday).

By the way--if you have a choise of Doctors to go with I'd avoid any New Who Doctors--most of thee ex-companions end up in a bad way. I'd also avoid theHartnell and Davison Doctors(both tended to lose companions). Any of the others should work fine.

you've always argued the Adams greed was the only reason he was dumped

Not JUST his greed. The fact that it endangered the lives of the Doctor, Rose and the entire human race. And, even more importantly, the fact that he immediately started spluttering justifications for his behaviour instead of accepting responsibility and saying 'Sorry', the way Rose did in Father's Day. The Doctor would have been INSANE to let Adam continue travelling with him, so the Doctor extremely considerately gave him a lift home, despite the dangers to the timeline this might pose.

(note:Donna also got a brain issue that when she sees proof of aliens knocks her out and brain-fries everyone around her,

Certainly she has. This doesn't alter the fact that the Doctor gave her several million quid, proving he's not adverse to Companions making a hefty profit.

and I've read that Amy and Rory are dumped decades before thier correct time(thereby losing both house and car. You know--New Who companionions are really treated like garbage aren't they????)

Rory was sent back in time by a Weeping Angel, Amy chose to follow him, it was phyiscally impossible for the Doctor to get to them, though it obviously broke his hearts - everyone goes through the wringer but no one's being treated like garbage.

It'was all about Eccy showing that he was top dog here!!!!

Eccy didn't need to go to such lengths to show ADAM he was top dog. A blind Ogron could have seen that Eccy was top dog.

Both Rose(in fathers Day), and Captain Jack(in his first 2 parter) endangered the entire human race with their greed and showed little to no remorse for it--and they were forgiven for it.

Rose was clearly horror-stricken, and said sorry. Captain Jack •••• near gave his LIFE to atone for what he'd done. Adam said 'I'm all right now. Much better...it's fine...it all worked out for the best, yeah? It wasn't my fault, you left me all alone, you were in charge.' Spot the difference.

Adam(who was never given a chance to show remorse)

He had the chance. How long does it take to say 'sorry'? He blew it.

after being left on his own in an already corrupted timeline(Eccy said so) tried to improve mankinds future by starting a new explosion in computer tech(getting rich wouldn't hurt--but it wasn't the main goal).

He CHOSE to be on his own, he LIED to get on his own. And if he doesn't understand that you don't mess with the Web of Time it would be grotesquely irresponsible to let him continue travelling in the TARDIS.

He was left to be executed.

You have yet to provide a shred of evidence that this happy eventuality came to pass.

Emily:And if Adam HAD been dismembered I'm sure we'd've seen the bits around the Hub or UNIT HQ by now...

Riiiight!!!

What makes you think that--we never got a good look at the research areas or the trophy rooms of either--they could have been there without our ever seeing them.(Let us not forget Torchwood.)

Because it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for RTG to have resisted showing us Adam's ultimate fate if that HAD been Adam's ultimate fate.

(To be honest--I think Adams remains ended up in the the facility we saw in Dalek

Wasn't that filled in with concrete? Didn't Goddard decide that collecting alien stuff was a REALLY BAD IDEA?

By the way--if you have a choise of Doctors to go with I'd avoid any New Who Doctors--most of thee ex-companions end up in a bad way.

You seriously think I wouldn't be HAPPY to die if it meant I got to spend some time with Eccy or Tennant first?!

I'd also avoid theHartnell and Davison Doctors(both tended to lose companions).

Hartnell didn't lose any PROPER Companions. Though I'd have to take care - if anyone so much as slapped me across the face with a dead fish he'd take that as his cue to dump me on a Dalek-devastated world. Davison I could cope with - just smash his head against the TARDIS console a few times, till he turned into Eccy.

Any of the others should work fine.

Yeah, no doubt me n'Colin would get on like a house on fire...

Any of the others should work fine.

Yeah, no doubt me n'Colin would get on like a house on fire...

Oh wow! I'd pay good money to see THAT meeting!

I'm surprised the Black Guardian hasn't arranged a meeting of Emily & the 6th Doctor. ;-)

Then again Emily has the letters M-E-L in it so maybe... ;-)

SPOILERS!

.WDI morf seiresinim cimoc 'emiT fo srenosirP' eht ni nialliv eht si madA, yltnerappA

SPOILERS/follow up to Kate's pot?

.emiT fo srenosirP daer dluolhs uoy peJ, seY.

Can't guarantee it will make you happy, but it will address some of your concerns.

Someone just sent a photoshopped photo of Chang Lee the Master's henchman, in a girl's bikini!

Dear God...

To quote Tom Baker: fan love is not like other love.

So how does anyone claiming that ADAM qualifies as a Companion feel about Courtney Woods...?

She does not qualify yet. He's just being nice to her, to silence her or make her feel "special". He did the same thing with Angie and Arty in Nightmare in Silver.

No, he was BLACKMAILED into taking THOSE little gits on a one-time-only trip. Courtney he's deliberately taken in the TARDIS on TWO separate consecutive occasions, and even told her he may have a vacancy for Companion...

Strictly speaking, they blackmailed CLARA, who probably went all nice and eye fluttery with the Doctor to get him to take them along. And he appeared to be all too happy to oblige. However, I do get your point, but even if he did bring up the possibility that she could take Clara's place someday soon, she would have to be officially invited to earn the companion status.

I don't recall Ian, Barbara, Steven, Ben, Polly, the Brig, Benton, Yates, Leela, Romana, Adric, Nyssa, Tegan or Mel being officially invited to earn the companion status either...

Doc4 says he'd never chosen his companions. New Series Doctors have engraved invitations.

But regarding Courtney vs Adam, I'll say nothing on that until I see how her story plays out.

I personally wouldn't have a problem with her as a companion. It wouldn't be the first time the Doctor's traveled with a student from Coal Hill School.

So long as there's no creepy subtext in the scripts, I personally would find nothing creepy about it.

Admittedly, that probably says more about how tired I am of 21st-century adult female humans as companions that I'm willing to settle for a category half-an-inch away than anything else.

Doc4 says he'd never chosen his companions.

He chose Sarah and Harry, didn't he? He LURED them away from Earth at the end of Robot...

I now have the mental image of the Doctor lurking in parks saying, "Would you like to travel in time & space? I've got candy in the TARDIS."

He did LITERALLY bribe Sarah with a jelly baby to rejoin him.

Soooooo... the "hero" is a creepy dude who lures people young enough to be his children onto his vehicle that they can't escape from and exposes them to unearthly dangers?

I've been rooting for the wrong person this whole time...

;-)

Well, I think it's exceptionally generous of him to offer sweeties AS WELL. He'd've had ME on 'Did I mention - it also travels in time...'

Never have the words "Would you like a Jelly Baby?" seemed so threatening before...

Now if only we'd had a scene of the third Doctor talking about his "good friend, Jimmy Saville". 8-o

Never have the words "Would you like a Jelly Baby?" seemed so threatening before...

Well, they were to Leela in Face of Evil.

Now if only we'd had a scene of the third Doctor talking about his "good friend, Jimmy Saville".

After his good friend Tse-Tung, Savile would actually have been an IMPROVEMENT...

Both the fourth and sixth Doctors actually hung around with him...

WHAT! We all know about *shudders* In a Fix with Sontarans, but What did poor darling TOM do?

He appeared as the Doctor on Jim'll Fix It in the 1970s...

Just about every celebrity appeared on Jim'll Fix It if enough fans asked to meet them. I doubt all of them knew at the time what a filthy pervert Savile was.

I hate these people who try to justify Savile by saying "why didn't people come forward when he was still alive?" - UM, THEY DID! Savile was protected by some police and establishment that covered up for him and refused to investigate.

About Courtney Woods and "Who" schoolgirls

I just finished reading Bad Behaviour by Rebecca Starford, a memoir of a year at an isolated boarding school where, after hours, the 14 year old students were left unsupervised. It’s kind of like Mean Girls in a rural area, if Mean Girls involved public mockery of suicide attempts and one girl defecating in another girl’s suitcase. And yet it's still common a remark in society that girls would never descend to Lord of the Flies savagery as they are "selfless" and "responsible".

Bruno Langley: 'Soap fans are definitely more vocal on the streets! Oh God, the things they shout! Expletives you could never print...I've never had any of that from Doctor Who fans. I've had nothing but good vibes from them. I can't think of one negative thing that they've said' - What the hell's the MATTER with us! He's ADAM! He sold out the human race - and, more importantly, THE DOCTOR - for CASH!

What the hell's the MATTER with us! We are an elightened forgiving lot. To a degree.

We ARE.

But it's past time we remembered what Our Hero did to the Family of Blood.

In comparison to which, slaughtering a few people who got on our nerves by, say, denying us an Underwater Menace DVD would not, IN ANY WAY, constitute an actual CRIME...

So much discussion about Adam and practically none of Craig, the more memorable almost companions in the series-- granted Craig was actually called a "partner" ;)

Well, there's no CONTOVERSY about Craig, is there (other than why we haven't been blessed with his presence a third time). The Doctor's in love with him (he said so himself!) and so is any sane human. Heck, even his BABY is adorable. All hail Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All...

Rob Shearman: 'I really enjoyed writing Frobisher - he doesn't see himself as being a Companion...I always thought, growing up, watching the show, the characters began to define themselves as if they were Companions or not, and that's weird because in real life you never actually do that...I think that Frobisher, more than any other character, just sees himself as the lead character! Which is what you would do! We always think of ourselves as the lead characters in our own lives' - yeah, but only because WE HAVEN'T MET THE DOCTOR YET.

Come to think of it, I have the horrible feeling the Doctor IS the lead character in my life regardless of his total failure to whisk me off round time and space. That's just embarrassing.

Interesting Doctor's Daughter Jenny information: http://www.doctor-who-news.com/doctors-daughter-dead

Luckily showrunner Steven Moffat, who was actually responsible for the plot twist of Jenny being alive at the end of The Doctor’s Daughter, was on hand to clear things up.
I’ve got Russell T Davies’ answer. Apparently it was me that kept her alive, because I said – when I heard about the idea – ‘Oh don’t kill her at the end, that’s the Star Trek thing to do.’ So he kept her alive just because I said that. And I wrote to him after and said, ‘well I didn’t know that I did that,’ and he said, ‘oh it doesn’t matter, Steven, she flew straight into a moon!”

I'm sure Jenny didn't fly straight into a moon.

She probably suffocated to death instead, I'm not sure that she quite appreciated that SPACE IS REALLY BIG.

She probably suffocated to death instead, I'm not sure that she quite appreciated that SPACE IS REALLY BIG.
Either way suits me. Never liked her, especially when contrasted with non traditional companion Donna who was right there.

I doubt the old man,(racist moron) Cobb would have included spaceflight in the clone imprint data, (it wasn't needed and would basically give doubters a viable, 'non fight' option).

Given only the Doctor's .D.N.A. was used isn't Jenny technically the Female Doctor some are supposedly clambering for?

Either way suits me. Never liked her,

Ouch.

There IS a difference between not LIKING someone and wanting them DEAD, you know.

Admittedly it's a distinction I frequently struggle with.

But just think how much GOOD Jenny could have done, out in the universe, with the Doctor's genes! If only HE'D been bothered to hang around for a few more hours to ATTEND HIS OWN DAUGHTER'S FUNERAL. (Now if she'd been CLARA, four and a half billion YEARS wouldn't be too much trouble...)

especially when contrasted with non traditional companion Donna who was right there.

But one of the joys of Jenny was the way she brought out a whole new side to Donna's relationship with the Doctor! FORCING him to face up to his paternal duties! It's SUCH an unusual TARDIS-crew dynamic. (Though come to think of it, Barbara and Ian really should have given Hartnell a few helpful hints about dropping the 'jolly good smacked bottom' stuff.)

Given only the Doctor's .D.N.A. was used isn't Jenny technically the Female Doctor some are supposedly clambering for?

No.

he said, ‘oh it doesn’t matter, Steven, she flew straight into a moon!”

I'm sure Jenny didn't fly straight into a moon.

She probably suffocated to death instead, I'm not sure that she quite appreciated that SPACE IS REALLY BIG.

Looks like both myself and (slightly more surprisingly) Russell T God might be wrong, rumour has it that Jenny will be getting her own Big Finish series.

I'm rather fond of Jenny but despite (or perhaps because of) that I'm not convinced that this is A Good Thing. Certainly having their own BF series didn't do Kate Lethbridge-Stewart or Osgood any favours. Plus I'm not sure how much character Jenny has LEFT once you can't see her eyeliner.

I'm rather fond of Jenny but despite (or perhaps because of) that I'm not convinced that this is A Good Thing. Certainly having their own BF series didn't do Kate Lethbridge-Stewart or Osgood any favours. Plus I'm not sure how much character Jenny has LEFT once you can't see her eyeliner.

She is LITERALLY a female Doctor, and one WITHOUT all the emotional baggage carried by the original. How bad could she be?

She is LITERALLY a female Doctor

She most certainly is no Doctor, literal or otherwise!

and one WITHOUT all the emotional baggage carried by the original.

She's got brand new emotional baggage to carry. Being rejected by her father, for instance, even AFTER she died for him.

How bad could she be?

I guess we're gonna find out...

Adam was (1) invited into the TARDIS, (2) made a trip in the TARDIS, and (3) was actually given a key to the TARDIS. What else do you need to happen before we can call someone a companion? Give him a special T-shirt?

I'm glad to see that Space Helmet for a Cow takes MY side in this particular debate:

'Bruno Langley - surely Nine's definitive companion after Rose and Captain Jack and Mickey and Jackie and Lynda with a Y and that plastic arm he carried round for a bit in the first episode.'

(Actually post-Handles we ARE gonna have to start pondering which severed-plastic-arms DO qualify for Almost Companion status, aren't we...)

'Evolution is the response by living organisms to their environment. He's become a major factor in that environment. You are the human response to him.' - Transit-monster to Kadiatu Lethbridge-Stewart, vis-a-vis the Doctor. Great idea for a character - the Doctor himself calls her 'Another player in the game' - but pity she never really went anywhere. Good sub-plot in Also People, but wasted in Happy Endings and I don't even REMEMBER her being in Set Piece.

I dunno what I was complaining about, I should have saved the whining for when I heard The Final Amendment, which reduces the time-travel-inventing, potentially-universe-destroying 'Human Doctor'* to 'Kaddy', who runs away from monsters and falls for a twit. A LOBOTOMISED twit.

*Hey, haaaang on...anyone else suddenly spotting a suspicious resemblance between Katiatu and Sabbath?

Reporting Bruno Langley has been charged with Sexual Assault.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41805130

Luckily I never did like Adam.

OR regard him as a Companion.

I see headlines that Coronation Street are going to wreak a terrible revenge on Bruno Langley's character in his exit scenes. (I didn't bother clicking on said article cos, y'know...Coronation Street.)

Luckily Who won't need to bother since the Doc has already very sensibly kicked Adam out the nearest airlock with a hole in his head.

Somewhere the Ninth Doctor is laughing long and hard at Bruno...

I really wish someone would have locked Courtney and the brother and sister from Nightmare in Silver in the decompression chamber from Terror of the Zygons... with no Fourth Doctor to save them!

The antepenultimate episode of CI5: The New Professionals, High Speed guest starred Robert Jezek.
Jezek had played Doctor Who companion Frobisher on Big Finish and Jezek was in the Doctor Who TV series itself in Battlefield playing Sergeant Zbrigniev.
Jezek is not the only Doctor Who companion actor to have appeared in CI5: The New Professionals as the series’ second episode Phoenix guest starred Mary Tamm.

Katarina would've made a good American high school cheerleader in another life...

About Time:

'The one character who constantly swallows the official explanation of what she's just seen is Chrissie, Maria's mum. We know from her last appearance that she's been fully aware of what was going on, but settled for a simpler life - one that made sense within her usual frame of reference' - I thought that I REMEMBER IT ALL was just vis-a-vis the Sontaran, not Season One as well...?

Oh, and as Clara-in-The-Snowman is quite literally an Almost Companion: 'Moonlighting as a barmaid and (therefore) part-time hooker' - oh-kay...

Saw the animated movie Smallfoot featuring James Corden.

DWM vis-a-vis our beloved* Lady Christina:

'Davies considered abandoning his Catwoman-like thief ("A character who's never actually existed in the real world, ever"**), instead making the Doctor's proxy companion "plain Eileen", the "most ordinary housewife in the world" - played by "someone like Kathy Burke"***. (In the event, Christina endured after none of the possible "Eileen" actors available at the time excited the production team enough)' - er...wasn't the entire POINT of the tragically-non-existent-Eileen that she DIDN'T excite people...?

*Well, by Big Finish if no one else.

**Oh, YA THINK!!

***Who?

***Who?

An uncredited non-speaking lazar from 'Terminus'.

Well, say what you like about Christina, at least she wasn't a lazar...

Big Finish has cast a new Katarina and she is Ajjaz Awad.


https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/katarina-returns?fbclid=IwAR1ti7ZdL__sbBM0lAzs5Akw8kuExmmQRHFh5UGtMwncaFr5CIi-dRYEwXI

I REALLY didn't see THAT coming.

I could have sworn I saw your on-line petition, Emily!
Wasn't it called "More KATARINA! Less JODIE'?

LIES AND SLANDER!

Come to think of it, I should be fonder of Katarina, like her I worship the Doctor as a god and like her I'd probably go splat out the nearest airlock shortly after boarding the TARDIS...

What triggered the time travellers being embroiled in the main narrative of NuWho 7.5 The Angels Take Manhattan was Rory disappearing from time.

Rory’s father Brian was played by Mark Williams.

Williams later played Father Brown and in Father Brown’s own 7.5 The Darkest Noon had Father Brown doing his own disappearing trick.

Like Father, like son.

Apparently, they considered making Sally Sparrow a Companion.

However, the actress turned it down.

PHILISTINE.

Better than a blasphemer

PHILISTINE AND BLASPHEMER!

There it is!

Saw the movie Ocean's 8 (2018) featuring James Corden.

Danny has been going on for years now that Adam got a raw deal.

Well, I felt the same way about Vince Hawkins, and then I realized something. I could keep complaining, or I could take matters into my own hands. As most of you know, I chose the latter, and The Timelost was born, which not only saved Vince, but launched him into a series of adventures with Sally Sparrow.

Danny, you should do the same for Adam. Forget what some silly comic, that most people probably haven't even read, and do your own Fan Fiction series starring Adam. I'd read them (and I'm sure Emily would too).

Think about it.

Well, the information we've been yearning for with bated breath for fifty-five years...the reason siblings Sara n'Bret had different surnames: Merrick Kingdom in Dalek Universe: The House of Kingdom: 'Sara was my other daughter. Bret was my wife's son by her second marriage. Both died in the line of duty, as far as I can tell. It's all rather hush-hush.'

"...and they were both descended from the House of Chaplet, whose detailed family tree is justly famous."

I always THOUGHT Handles was the best of Companions and it's clear the Doctor agrees with me: Deep Breath: 'I remember you. You're Handles. You used to be a little, a little robot head, and now you. You've really let yourself go.' And if he thinks that CLARA - the one he punched a diamond wall for four and a half billion years for - is an inferior version of Handles, well, then OBVIOUSLY Handles wins Our Hero's Best Companion Ever prize by A MILE.

I thought Bret was older than Sara, like when they joined the army they were part of, Bret was 12 meanwhile Merrick's own children were 5, 4, and 3 year old, making it seem that Bret was born from an one night stand with a man who had the surname Walton but gave his surname as Vyon (which is'nt even a real life surname) way before meeting Merrick.

Wait I thought it would be better if Bret was born Bret kingdom and then as an adult changed his surname to vyon as in the future more ethnicless names would be preferred. Such as the names I tend to name characters.

Astrid Peth in the TARDIS.
Something we didn't get to see in Voyage of the Damned:
https://imgur.com/a/1yZUNbQ

Saw the animated movie Trolls World Tour (2020) with James Corden.

A promotional picture of Gugu Mbatha-Raw in Beauty and the Beast (2017):
https://imgur.com/a/tkVZYZM

Saw the movie Love & Friendship (2016) with Jemma Redgrave.


Love & Friendship is based on a story by Jane Austen and the year before in 2015 Austen was mentioned by Clara in The Magician's Apprentice an episode with Jemma Redgrave as Kate.


In fact Clara mentioned Austen at Coal Hill just before she left there to meet with Kate at UNIT HQ in the Tower of London.


Love & Friendship also featured Stephen Fry.

Curiously when Fry was later in Spyfall playing C, the head of MI6 he briefly mentioned UNIT and of course Kate Stewart, as played by the said Jemma Redgrave, was the head of UNIT.

It is probable that Kate and C as head of their respective agencies had met on occasions to discuss Securitu and Intelligence.

I meant Security in my previous post.

Saw Yee Jee Tso in Seven Days 2.14 Deja Vu All Over Again and Seven Days, like Doctor Who, is a time travel series.


Given the episode title it was no doubt a sense of Deja Vu for Yee Jee Tso with him being back in a time travel drama but also this episode came on February 23 2000 and the 1996 Doctor Who TV which he was in as Chang Lee is set in the countdown to the year 2000!

Surprised to learn from this on what really happened to Katarina as revealed in Ravenous 3 from Big Finish:
https://imgur.com/a/AXiJKwF

Honestly, I didn't listen to Ravenous 3 for FUN, y'know. I did it so YOU would know what happened to Katarina's ashes without having to endure the thing YOURSELVES. (Well, actually Companion Piece was great - well, aside from the aforementioned River-forgets-she's-a-psychopath-and-gets-obsessed-with-hubby's-dead-ex-barely-Companion-who-luckily-has-magic-baddie-defeating-ashes stuff...)

Just discovered that prior to playing Osgood, Ingrid Oliver did a couple of Big Finishes both with the Seventh Doctor in Project: Destiny & Earth Aid.