Moderator's Note: This is Mike's original Rani summary:

I'm not a big fan of the Rani, probably because of Katie O'Mara's OTT performance and awful plastic surgery. Loved her TARDIS, though.



She could have been better if they had done more
than just two episodes with her.I think that
Dr.Who could have used a really well defined
female villian...too bad they wasted the oppurtunity.

Don't you mean two stories? She did two 45-minute episodes in The Mark Of The Rani and the four 25-minute episodes in Time And The Rani.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a Missing Adventure or BBC book with her in it, so we could get some background information on her, or even an origin. The possibilities are endless.

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State of Change *cough cough*.

Well said - could have been anyone, really, couldn't it?

And if anyone wants to count Dimensions In Time, that's another Rani story with absolutely no character development.

Ed, thanks! I'll check it out!

Here's a trick when playing scrabble - use the word rani. When the ensuing dispute occurs, tell them it's the wife of a rajah and then when the dictionary comes out, watch your opponents fume as they realise you are right.

So glad the Rani has finally come in useful for SOMETHING...

just checked... my dictionary doesn't have it in there
Another blow against the rapidly losing Australian Oxford Dictoinary

'They should never have exiled you. They should have locked you in a padded cell' - quite. Why exactly DID the Time Lords give the Rani a TARDIS and set her loose on the universe, when they put poor Troughton on trial and MURDERED him for the crime of, er, borrowing a TARDIS and wandering round the universe interfering?

She's the ruler of a bloody PLANET, couldn't she send someone else to collect some brain fluid from the humans? Or find an easier way to harvest it, like rounding up millions of 'em for a factory farm?

So she thinks the Master 'never had any other' plan than killing the Doctor? How stupid IS she? And as for calling the Master 'unbalanced' because he has a plan that encompasses *gasp* the WHOLE human race...

Why does she wave the brain-fluid in front of the Master when he'd just swiped her tin of brain-controlling worms? What did she THINK was gonna happen?

It didn't occur to the Rani that having one of her creatures jump on top of the Master might possibly risk damaging the previous vial of brain-liquid - until after the event?

She has to wipe dirt off the Doctor's face to recognise him? You'd think those godawful yellow curls and godawful yellow trousers would rather give the game away.

So the Rani's been coming to Earth for centuries to harvest brain-fluid, without anyone noticing. True enough: she claims to be around during the Trojan War but I mercifully didn't spot her in The Myth Makers.

She 'hasn't sunk to quite the Master's depths' - don't ADMIT that your new villain is a really rubbish version of an old one.

Why the hell can't the Rani just create a sleeping potion for her planet if lack of sleep is making 'em so violent? She's GOT to be a better chemist than Peri, at least. Or if human brain fluid is, mysteriously, the only substance in the universe that'll cure 'em...why doesn't she synthesise it? Why does she seriously seem to be planning to spend CENTURIES hopping round Earth's most violent eras to collect the stuff, one human at a time?

Why is her face painted weird orange-and-red colours?

So according to the Doctor the Rani 'sees people as walking heaps of chemicals' - this would actually be a rather nice description if only he didn't go on to ruin it by saying 'There's no place for the soul in her scheme of things' - well, there's no place for the soul in MY scheme of things either, what's your PROBLEM?

And THIS is the woman who the Doctor and Master spend an entire interminable story in gooey-eyed admiration of ('Incredible. Absolutely incredible. The Rani is a genius!' 'Brilliant!')?? I think all three of 'em must be having a mid-life crisis.

And why, having gushed away like crazy, does the Master suddenly declare the Rani is an 'intellectual microbe'?

Why exactly DID the Time Lords give the Rani a TARDIS and set her loose on the universe

There are two kinds of stories that are un-nittable. On one end of the spectrum are stories that are so tightly constructed that there simply are no nits, entities that exist in theory only; on the other end are stories written by Pip and Jane Baker.

Don't even try.

Why exactly DID the Time Lords give the Rani a TARDIS and set her loose on the universe, when they put poor Troughton on trial and MURDERED him?

Because they don't have many female Time Lords to spare? If they're 90% male, and they certainly seem to be, it'd make sense if they were a lot laxer with the rare females. Either that, or she blackmailed the judge.

She's the ruler of a bloody PLANET, couldn't she send someone else

If she managed to take the planet over, its natives can't be too bright. Sending a bunch of complete idiots wouldn't get her anywhere, and collecting humans en masse would be like sending an engraved invitation to the Doctor.

'There's no place for the soul in her scheme of things' - well, there's no place for the soul in MY scheme of things either, what's your PROBLEM?

First, define soul. The Doctor may have just been talking metaphorically, soul as a shorthand for empathy and compassion. Even if there are physical souls, that doesn't imply the full panoply of religion - souls might normally disintegrate on death, with rare exceptions like the Master, and even they don't get a afterlife, no heaven or hell.

I think all three of 'em must be having a mid-life crisis.

Or perhaps she's using pheromones. She is a biology genius; some kind of perfume that made Time Lords get a crush on her would be just her style, and it could even explain why she wasn't executed.

There are two kinds of stories that are un-nittable. On one end of the spectrum are stories that are so tightly constructed that there simply are no nits, entities that exist in theory only

Or, like Amy's Choice, turn out to be entirely dreams, therefore pretty un-nittable, dammit.

on the other end are stories written by Pip and Jane Baker.

Don't even try.

Can't help it. Nits are the only pleasure to be got from such abominations so nits I will have.

Because they don't have many female Time Lords to spare? If they're 90% male, and they certainly seem to be, it'd make sense if they were a lot laxer with the rare females.

Unfortunately in the Whoniverse, societies with only one or two females never DO seem to take appropriate care/notice of them. Very odd. Though making more sense in the Time Lords' case since they've shown little sign of caring about sex and reproduction.

Either that, or she blackmailed the judge.

Ah! Yes. Gallifreyan trials aren't exactly renowned for their incorruptible pursuit of justice, are they.

She's the ruler of a bloody PLANET, couldn't she send someone else

If she managed to take the planet over, its natives can't be too bright.

Not necessarily. The Master managed to take over OUR planet for a year and SOME of us are pretty bright (AND we had the Doctor on our side!).

Sending a bunch of complete idiots wouldn't get her anywhere, and collecting humans en masse would be like sending an engraved invitation to the Doctor.

Look, as long as she didn't collect 'em from southern England I'm sure she'd've got away with it.

The Doctor may have just been talking metaphorically, soul as a shorthand for empathy and compassion.

No doubt this was the case, it just got on my nerves. I'd probably let any other Doctor get away with talking about souls, but by THIS stage I wouldn't let Colin get away with BREATHING.

Or perhaps she's using pheromones. She is a biology genius; some kind of perfume that made Time Lords get a crush on her would be just her style, and it could even explain why she wasn't executed.

Actually she's a chemistry genius. And neither the Doctor or the Master seemed to like/love/fancy her - they just praised her brilliance to the skies whilst stealing from her and slagging her off. Of course, she might just have got the balance of the perfume wrong, or something.

'We didn't want a replica of the Master, but we wanted somebody who was every bit as sinister and evil as the Master' - Pip n'Jane in DWM. You DID? Then why did you have her going to such efforts to save the proles on some planet or other?

ROBERT in Monsters: The Master thread: I know these days we're supposed to blame the Master's madness on hearing drums,but that doesn't explain the Rani

Does the Rani really need explaining? She's a megalomaniac, of course, but so are half the Time Lords who remain on Gallifrey and make it to the High Council. Mark of the Rani was, after all, about her efforts to save her own people (albeit by nicking some brain-fluid from a few humans, but hey, can we REALLY say WE wouldn't do the same to some lesser species). And, OK, I seem to remember her going off the rails a BIT during Time and the Rani but who HASN'T been tempted to rewrite the universe for the better? Even the DOCTOR nearly succumbed in School Reunion.

Planet of the Rani:

The recasting of the Rani (apparently due to a deathbed request by Kate O'Mara, who inconsiderately died just when Big Finish had FINALLY got round to writing her some audios) is...a mistake. Yes, I KNOW I have MASSIVE problems with the VERY CONCEPT of regeneration - GIMME MY TOM BACK YOU ********! - for someone who grew up with it wired into my DNA, but...if you're gonna do it you've gotta do it RIGHT. Big Finish's new Monk was PERFECT, its new Master adequate, its new Romana just-about-acceptable, but its new vaguely-Irish-sounding Rani...no. Sorry. It's not like I can even stand the character OR Kate O'Mara's portrayal, but...you've GOT to have a larger-than-life actress and whoever this new woman is (Siobham Redmond, apparently) she's just not...bombastic enough.

Anyway...said audio claims that the Rani is 'her own worst enemy' and her plans are 'ridiculously over-elaborate' - is that TRUE? When the Doctor and the Master are around? When all she wanted was a bit of brain-fluid/to conquer the universe by aiming a missile at an asteroid? If anything it was the simplicity of her plans that undid her - like not realising that said missile might need an aiming mechanism....

Pip n'Jane in DWM: 'It occurred to us that if we made the Rani a neurochemist and if she regarded humans as a lower species rather like laboratory rats it was more sinister than somebody who wanted to dominate the universe' - so, um, why did the second story you wrote for the Rani involve her...trying to dominate the universe?

It's a rule of Doctor Who for all second monster/villain appearances. The Daleks - PTSD-afflicted dispassionate scientists or conquerors of the Earth!?! The Cybermen - emotionless machine men concerned with their own survival but not ignorant of human suffering or conquerors of the Moon!?! The Macra - fighting back against the alien invaders or conquerors of the Galaxy! (once, but now stuck under a motorway)

Alan Barnes in DWM: 'The thing about the Rani is you have to recognise that she's not the Master' - er...thank you for those words of wisdom. I think MOST of us have grasped that the rubbish villain of a couple of rubbish stories is quite distinct from that wonderfully successful arch-enemy who's been battling Our Hero since 1971.

'She's not a megalomaniac, she's a monomaniac. You've got to find a story that isn't necessarily about destroying the entire universe' - really? Her attempts to take over and rewrite the entire universe in Time and the Rani don't imply a certain amount of megalomania?

'Her schemes don't actually have to be enormous like the way a Master scheme does' - ah yes, who can forget those enormous universe-spanning schemes of the Master's involving escaping from Xerophas/getting a singing robot to screw up the Magna Carta/not being miniaturised any more?

'As much as the Doctor dislikes what the Rani does, there's a small hint in there that he thinks she can be saved, unlike the Master' - well, SOME Doctors think the Master can be saved - Tennant and McGann, say. Whereas I'm not sure ANY of 'em would bother to •••• on the Rani if she was on fire.

Does Missy mean Moff or Chib will bring in a male Rani?

I'd have no problem with that.

Or at least, no more problem than with a female Rani coming back (why gods, WHY!!).

Though given her penchant for genetic engineering, surely she could come back as something more interesting than a mere MAN?

I'm sure the technology for creating walking, talking, world-conquering, Peri-clutching trees has moved on since the 1980s...

I don't know. A team-up of a female Master and a female Rani sounds more fun. Plus we've already seen a male Master/female Rani effort; simply exchanging the genders wouldn't add anything new.

A new series Rani should be completely non-binary.

I'm guessing that Pip Baker still owns the copyright to the Rani (since Jane passed away a couple of years ago).

Though given her penchant for genetic engineering, surely she could come back as something more interesting than a mere MAN?

With her skills, she could probably give herself the legs of a bull, the arms of a gibbon, the torso of a penguin, and the head of a lion - all in the hope that her enemies will be too distracted by her bizarre appearance to offer meaningful resistance to her latest grand schemes.

With her skills, she could probably give herself the legs of a bull, the arms of a gibbon, the torso of a penguin, and the head of a lion

Aaaaand suddenly - the miracle has occurred and I want the Rani back!

And let's face it, she wouldn't look any stupider than when she dressed up as Mel Bush...

The Jodie Doctor, the Michelle Master, and the Rani.

Time Ladies Night Out!

Could we have River Song instead of the Rani? She's half-Time-Lord (Lady. Whatever.) after all, and she's a lot less of an embarrassment to the gender/species than that Rani, her chances of dressing up as Mel or saying 'Leave the girl, it's the man I want!' being roughly zero.

Ah well, apparently, the Baker's are the only ones allowed to write Rani stories (well, Pip Baker is, since Jane is now dead).

There are a couple of Sixth Doctor/Rani audios (The Rani Elite and Planet of the Rani) that say otherwise...

I guess Pip has eased up on this, since Jane's death.

Science fiction just wasn't Pip and Jane's thing. And it wasn't just Doctor Who. Their one episode of Space: 1999 (A Matter Of Balance) is considered one of the weaker episodes of that series.

Did they write for any other genres?

From Wikipedia:

Prior to Doctor Who, they scripted the episode "A Matter of Balance" (1976) for Gerry Anderson's TV series Space: 1999, as well as the films Night of the Big Heat (1967) and Captain Nemo and the Underwater City (1969). In the 1990s, they created and wrote the CBBC series Watt on Earth, the eponymous Watt being an alien who is trapped on Earth

IMDb lists Z-cars and a small smattering of others.

Thanks, Kevin.

The Rani makes Lucretia Borgia look like Shirley Temple.

On the good world, Lollipop, it's a short trip to the strange matter shop, where the Tetraps hang, and the Doctor's head goes bang!

;-)

Since the Doctor and the Master can become women, then it stands to reason that the Rani can become a man.

'As much as the Doctor dislikes what the Rani does, there's a small hint in there that he thinks she can be saved, unlike the Master' - well, SOME Doctors think the Master can be saved - Tennant and McGann, say.

Aaaand, since I wrote that, Capaldi.

EIGHTY YEARS OF HIS LIFE - minimum! - SQUANDERED on standing outside that stupid box like he's Auton-Rory.

Of course, to a guy who deliberately spent four-and-a-half billion years being tortured, eighty is no biggie, but still...

Since the Doctor and the Master can become women, then it stands to reason that the Rani can become a man.

There are plenty of up-sides to JODIE! and Missy, but what exactly would be the POINT of the Rani being a man?

Though to be fair, she's entirely pointless as a woman too.

Ah. I see we already had this conversation in 2016.

How about the Rani coming back. Since Kate O'Mara is dead, just regenerate the character.

Already done in the audios. She's Irish now. (Apparently Big Finish had just belatedly written some Rani stories when Kate O'Mara died. Apparently she urged them on her deathbed to go ahead with a new reincarnation, something I find a bit hard to swallow.)

I too find that a bit hard to believe.

KEITH ALAN MORGAN in Time and the Rani thread:

A new and potentially great villain who sadly never had a great story to match that potential.

What the hell was potentially great about the Rani?

It really feels like the Production Team noticed Who was sexist and pathetically invented an inferior-Master-type instead of just, y'know, REGENERATING THE MASTER INTO MICHELLE GOMEZ DAMMIT.

Sure, Pip n'Jane probably thought they were being so clever pushing the 'amoral not immoral!' alleged difference but given that she's trying to take over the universe by her second story...