Moderator's Note: This is Mike's original Assorted Villains summary:
I'm sure I missed your favorite villain, so talk about them here.
The Kandy Man - the Doctor's retribution for the consumption of jelly babies - is not a workmanlike horror about a mad old sweet but a marvellous stab at summing up, amongst other things, the cigarette and the mobile phone. The Kandy Man and his kitchen do for commercialism and greed what Cybermen do for robotic limbs and hearing aids...
Jelly Babies are made by Bassetts & for years Tom Baker was plugging them, (Didn't the BBC used to be strict about this sort of thing?) & I suppose this balances things out with the Kandy Man being a lookalike of Bertie Bassett, the company's mascot.
The original conception of the Kandy Man was for him to look human, only lightly coated with sugar. At least that's how he's described in the novelization. Personally, I thought the televized villain looked ridiculous, but appropriate for this unusual episode.
This reminds me of an odd event in Tom Baker's episode The Pirate Planet. Here is the Jelly Baby addict throwing about what looks to be Liquorice All-Sorts. Was this a way of the BBC to put in product placement? Some subtle advertising?
Well, as the Doctor says in Invasion of Time, 'One grows tired of jelly babies. One grows tired of everything...except power.' Of course, at the time he was pretending to be a) a nutter, b) Lord President, and c) a genocidal Vardan-loving traitor, so you can't take it too seriously. Tom Baker, tired of jelly babies? Never! That doesn't mean, however, that he can't eat other kinds of sweets as well (especially as sweets are virtually the only thing he does eat). Or maybe he had a premonition of his Kandyman encounter, and decided to munch away on liquorice allsorts as a kind of preemptive revenge?
In 'Image of the Fendahl' and 'The Sunmakers' the Doctor offers people (well, the skull in Image) liquorice allsorts while asking them if they'd like a jelly baby.
One of my friends actually found the Kandyman quite frightening. Then again, I also used to know someone who was terrified of the Nimon.
Oh, and wouldn't 'Allsorted Villains' be a better category for this discussion? ;-)
There are no jelly babies in season 18, so perhaps the Doctor DID get tired of them after all. Personally I like the Kandyman, although I can see why some people wouldn't. The character is bizzarre but slightly creepy (although most of this can be put down to the superb music played in his scenes). Bassetts did get quite annoyed about the Kandyman at the time of transmission, it even got into the newspapers between the transmission of parts 2 and 3 with Bassetts talking possible legal proceedings although I believe this idea was quietly dropped after the Kandyman's destruction in part 3.
It's a shame that the Kandyman never appeared in Colin's time. The Doctor could just have eaten him...
I know I asked this earlier about the Jelly Babies, but what exactly are Licorice Allsorts?
Bassett’s Liquorice Allsorts are pieces of liquorice mixed with pieces of sweet stuff which is a bit like coconut.
Here is a picure of a Bassett’s Liquorice Allsorts tin, which has pictures of the sweets on it.
http://pages.tias.com/7521/PictPage/1921169091.html
Thanks, Sophie. It looks good!
Mind you, what if Tony Todd's character from the Candyman series of movies, turned up in The Happiness Patrol, by some wierd mischance ?
Would Sylvester MacCoy's Doctor, have been so flippant then....
(Sorry, But I could not resist this !)
"Candyman, Candyman, Candyman..."
Or better yet imagine The Happiness Patrol with everyone having to sing the classic Sammy Davis,Jr. song 'The Candyman'.
Alright - best new series villain/monster? Of course, it's a devastating indictment of The Supreme Achievement Of The Human Race that after three years, yes, THREE GLORIOUS YEARS, the Slitheen is its ONLY contribution to Nitcentral's Villains section, but there HAVE been some great one- (or two-) off creatures - Weeping Angels, Empty Children, Clockwork Droids (ah, worship that Moffat), Cassandra, the Family of Blood, and...er...that's about it.
Less successful are the Reapers (bit weedy-looking...plus if you can't be bothered to NAME your monster on-screen it can hardly expect any votes), the Krillitane (too Reaper-like), the Slitheen (like 'em, especially in Boom Town where there's considerably less farting, but with the SJA they're feeling overused), the Jagrafess (bit pointless), the Sycorax (blatant-but-inferior Faction Paradox rip-off), the Pilot Fish (what the HELL is going on there?), the Wire (yawn), the Judoon (adorable but way too Sontaran-like), the Carrionites (cliched), the sun-monsters (yeah...seeing people with helmets on is just SO scary), and the Empress of the Racnoss (can't really put my finger on it - just not impressed).
Anyway, my vote goes to the Catnuns. Bless their precious little fluffy faces. Alright, I'm cheating as they're purer than the driven snow, their only 'crime' is over-enthusiasm in helping ungrateful humans, but hey, it's the Doctor's view that counts (see The Macra Terror) and HE obviously counts the darling moggies as dyed-in-the-wool baddies.
You can't call the empty child a villain; it's not his fault he got dosed with nanites. And you can hardly blame the sun monster for defending itself. I would have called them victims.
The Krillitane, on the other hand, were great! And they had speaking parts. Thumbs up for the Racnoss, too. Bit split on the catnuns.
And what about Absorbalof and the werewolf?
You can't call the empty child a villain; it's not his fault he got dosed with nanites.
Yeah, and it's not the Daleks' fault they were engineered to be bubbling lumps of hate inside bonded polycarbide armour (or something) but they're still scary evil monsters. Just not quite as scary, evil and monstrous as THAT KID.
And you can hardly blame the sun monster for defending itself.
I bloody can! Anything that makes my Doctor writhe around in agony sobbing 'I'm so scared' I find EXTREMELY blameable. (Unless of course it was ME making the Sixth Doctor do that.)
I would have called them victims.
Yeah, OK, that too.
The Krillitane, on the other hand, were great! And they had speaking parts.
Oh, they were quite chilling in human form, especially the headmaster - I was just thinking of the bat-stuff.
And what about Absorbalof and the werewolf?
Neither great nor a-bit-disappointing. I mean, the Absorbaloff was slightly...alright, extremely...implausible, but was fun enough to make up for it. The werewolf was...well, a werewolf. Not exactly an original idea, and no doubt it was a miracle of CGI but I regret I don't particularly share the Doctor's love-at-first-sight.
Oh, I just realized, we forgot SATAN.
Although I agree that the gas mask kid is the scariest villain (victim) on Who ever.
Do the Ood count? They weren't villains anymore than the creepy child was, but they did attack the heroes.
I don't know. It's kind of hard to feel sorry for a race that exists only to be doormats, but they certainly weren't evil, just pathetic. Maybe they'll seem more worthwhile when we see them again this year.
Oh, I just realized, we forgot SATAN.
I didn't forget him exactly, I just didn't think he deserved to be singled out for praise OR criticism.
Except that I was just thinking of the CGI Satan - forgot how scary Beast-Toby could be...
Do the Ood count? They weren't villains anymore than the creepy child was, but they did attack the heroes.
Oh, they count as villains alright! Even before they went in for the AND YOU WILL WORSHIP HIM! stuff. I mean, just LOOK at them! (And don't accuse me of being racist cos even the Doc - who tends to respond to all sorts of monstrosities with 'You're beautiful!' - freaked out at the sight of the Ood (well, OK, so the 'FEED!' stuff didn't help.))
So. The Shansheeth. Best new monsters in YEARS. Let's face it, Season 5/31 didn't exactly set the world on fire, monster-wise. Either they were old ones realised incredibly badly (Daleks, Silurians) or at least rather less effectively than hitherto (Weeping Angels) or they were...fine but not exactly nightmare-inducing (Fish-Vampires, Invisible Giant Chickens, Old Age Pensioners, etc).
Sure, the Shansheeth look so childish, cheap and unconvincing that even I noticed, but so what? The guys have STYLE.
Their motivation is unique: 'a noble quest to halt the endless, endless weeping.' Their sense of humour is also unique: from telling the Doctor to 'rest in peace' while they're killing him to saying 'Fortunately, there are excellent undertakers at hand' while they're killing Sarah and Jo.
OK, there may be a few nits...
Why didn't they nick the key off the Doc when they nicked the TARDIS?
What on Earth makes them think they can operate the TARDIS even when they have a key?
If they're 'known throughout the universe as the carers of the dead' why has Sarah never heard of them? More importantly, why haven't WE? Death is, after all, the Doctor's constant companion...
Their death ray is a bit pathetic.
If they're sick of the death of heroes, why kill the greatest hero of 'em all? Why not just change career instead?
Why do they think 'The children are irrelevant' when Clyde's obviously been enabling that meddlesome Doctor to turn up and ruin his own funeral?
Does it not occur to them that EVERYONE DIES! What's the point of going to all these lengths to keep a few of 'em alive a bit longer?
So. The Shansheeth. Best new monsters in YEARS.
Are you serious? They were about as convincing as the Wirrn. After the Daleks, Davros, and the Master, the best new monster New Who has produced is the Dream Lord. Okay, he's a villain not a monster per se, and he's also the Doctor, but he was fantastic! He had about 5 episodes' worth of great lines all in one story.
Let me amend that. The Daleks, Davros, and the Master aren't new at all. So that makes the Dream Lord the best villain New Who has produced! (The Weeping Angels used to be first, until they got watered down.)
Are you serious? They were about as convincing as the Wirrn.
Hey! The Wirrn are deeply creepy! Maybe not QUITE so much when in bubblewrap form, but definitely when they're falling out of cupboards on top of you with all those LEGS.
Anyway, I never said the Shansheeth were convincing. Just...brilliant.
the best new monster New Who has produced is the Dream Lord.
Oh! Totally forgot about him when I was slagging off Season 5/31 - I was just thinking of those ghastly pensioners as the Amy's Choice bad guys...yes, he was wonderful.
Okay, he's a villain not a monster per se
Don't worry, he totally counts as a monster! I'm still not sure about renaming this section 'Monsters' instead of 'Villains' but I figured that any bad guy could be described as monstrous, whereas calling a Dalek/Cyberman/Yeti a 'villain' was a bit odd.
(The Weeping Angels used to be first, until they got watered down.)
Yeah, the really memorable New Who evil creations - Angels, Empty Child, Clockwork Droids, Cassandra, the Family of Blood, and (if one is feeling generous) Florance and the Vashta Nerada - either WERE, or SHOULD have been, one-offs. (Oh, and the Waters of Mars zombies were fantastic but, let's face it, when all's said and done they were just ZOMBIES.) I'm HOPING we'll have the chance to see whether this also applies to the Dream Lord...
Moderator's Note: the Judoon section has been moved here, as they just couldn't hack it with the big guys:
'Bo Ro Lo Ko Sho!'
They're great big space-rhino things. They're mercenaries. They're the Shadow Proclamation's police force. They like Earth (despite being barred) and summary executions...sorry, swift justice. They're a bit thick. They don't like the Doctor. Make that very thick.
Right. They've been in FOUR stories - one season opener and three grand finales - one Sarah Jane Adventure, and no less than THREE types of book (Quick Reads, Tenth Doctor Adventures, and Decide Your Destinies). They OBVIOUSLY deserve their own thread.
Alright, they obviously don't. But I'm getting sick of the lack of New Who monsters in this section. I had to forcibly restrain myself from sticking Ood in too, just to pad out the numbers.
So. Why do they keep turning up on Earth if they're forbidden to do so? Why ARE they forbidden to do so? Sure, there was some Terrance Dicks book about how they misbehaved on Earth or something so got barred, but...surely the Judoon misbehave EVERYWHERE THEY GO? And they're the bloody POLICE. You can't just give 'em no-go areas. Especially when it comes to Earth, the planet that suffers more alien misbehaviour than the rest of the universe put together. And why do they respect the lack-of-jurisdiction (or whatever) to an excessive extent in Smith and Jones (H20-scooping a hospital to the moon, for heaven's sake) yet ignore it in Pandorica Opens and mumble an embarrassed excuse in Prisoner of the Judoon?
I think we need an episode or two showing why they are banned from Earth.
•••• right we should. Given that it makes no sense whatsoever. (Well, alright, the Shadow Proclamation wouldn't want to upset our pathetic Level Five planet with giant rhinos, but don't they have any OTHER, more discrete, police? It's not as if PLENTY of races in the Whoniverse don't look exactly like humans...)
The only trouble is, we've already had an 'explanation' in Revenge of the Judoon and I don't know how far the new series wants to respect its books - even the Quick Reads ones. (*Perks up* Of course, THAT particular 'adventure' might have got swallowed by a Crack...)
It's now FOUR different types of book, by the way, what with that godawful Moorcock novel having cricket-playing Judoon.
I'm starting to feel the Minotaur deserves his own section. Mind Robber, Horns of Nimon, God Complex, Time Monster, not to mention happy memories of Theseus, Ariadne and a ball of string...What IS it about a half-man, half-bull that we find so fascinating?
And why would a distant cousin of the Nimon choose to behave in he same way, setting themselves up as gods? At least the Nimon did it purely as a means to power, rather than actually FEEDING on worship. The Absorbaloff didn't feel the need to behave in a Slitheen-like manner, ditto for the stupid Torchwood fairies with their alleged relationship to the Mara.
Whilst gazing in fond nostalgia at the Monoids during their welcome return in Bernice Summerfield and the Kingdom of the Blind (alright, so it's an audio: I may not have been so nostalgic if I'd had to SEE 'em) I was wondering: has ANY Old Who monster not made a reappearance in SOME medium?
The Taran Beast, perhaps? It got a name-check - but not an actual appearance - in Christmas on a Rational Planet.
DWM: 'The Rutan prop...was made as cheaply and as quickly as possible late in pre-production' - well, THAT explains a lot. If not WHY the all-important monster was so neglected.
DWM 259 has a nice if not particularly revelationary article on the villains, though I don't think I'll be adopting its categories (Sinner, Heretic, Master Criminal, Lost Child, Tyrant King, Dead Man, Pale Horseman, Bored God) for our Monster section any time soon.
Also, it claims that 'We can't make a Sutekh rational or explicable by having him smoulder gently on a couch, telling us about his mother' - I'm not so sure, meeting Sutekh's dad in The True History of Faction Paradox audios gave me some REAL insights.
'Female villains are largely dragged-up ball-breakers or domineering shrews' - hmm. I s'pose. At least when this was written, i.e. before we got Lilith, Blon, Chloe, Mother of Mine, etc.
It also suggests that all the 'Lost Children' villains (Pangol, Vaughn, Winters, Chase, Capel etc) were 'bullied, lonely, only children who withdrew into books and swotting', whilst omitting to mention that isn't that exactly what THE DOCTOR was? ('I bet you were the class swot and never got kissed...')
It claims that 'heroes are nothing without villains' but is that even true? I'd happily watch MANY HOURS of TennantDoc and Donna at, say, that Agatha Christie party without a villain in sight...
Plus it 'can't wait' to see a Final Battle between the Doctor and the Valeyard. Sick!
Actually, I'm pretty interested in having the Valeyard come back, as long as he looks and sounds like the Dream Lord.
Sinner, Heretic, Master Criminal, Lost Child, Tyrant King, Dead Man, Pale Horseman, Bored God
Which is which? The Master is the obvious master criminal, the Eternals are bored gods, and Davros fits well enough as tyrant king, but the other categories aren't exactly clear.
I'm pretty interested in having the Valeyard come back, as long as he looks and sounds like the Dream Lord.
As long as he looks like the Dream Lord, sounds like the Dream Lord, AND IS CALLED THE DREAM LORD, I'll be fine with that too ;)
Sinner, Heretic, Master Criminal, Lost Child, Tyrant King, Dead Man, Pale Horseman, Bored God
Which is which? The Master is the obvious master criminal, the Eternals are bored gods, and Davros fits well enough as tyrant king, but the other categories aren't exactly clear.
Quite. These are listed on the cover and I wasted considerable amounts of time trying to work out which villain would be what before realising it would be quicker to just READ THE ARTICLE...
Sinners: 'Sane men fallen victim to the frailest of human impulses' - the greedy (Pike, Grey, Tryst), everyday murderers (Bennett, Ringo), opportunists (Bragen, Kalik), the proud and envious (Forrester, Federico, Grendel), bigots (Tlotoxl), racists (The Marshal, Thawn), traitors (Tegana, El Akir), henchmen....
Oh god, this is gonna take hours, even with me missing out half the names. To cut it short:
Heretics: scientists who actively defy either God, or nature, or both (slightly odd definition given that God doesn't exist in the Whoniverse (or anywhere else if you ask ME.)).
Master Criminal: Yup, it's the Master, basically.
Lost Children: 'Minor pantheon of cultists and ideologues' (Klieg, De Flores, Vaughn) and sociopaths (Winters, Stael, Pangol).
Tyrant Kings: Apparently they have a taste for luxury so it's slightly odd that Davros is included. Along with Nero, Catherine de Medici, Mavic Chen, Jano etc.
Dead Men: 'Those whose time is up' - Eldrad, Vynda-K, Xanxia, Fey, Meglos, Kane, Greel, Scaroth...
Pale Horsemen: 'These Dead Men must, however, be seperated from more meaningful figures of actual Death' - um, whatever. Sutekh, the Fendahl and, er, the Virus of the Swarm. Wouldn't have put the Wobbly Prawn in this category myself...
Bored Gods: Yup, Eternals, plus Black Guardian, Gods of Ragnarok, Fenric. (Doesn't seem BORED to me, old Fenric. More a Pale Horseman or a Dead Man, surely?)
The walking fat entities.
Very cute.
Rutans:
'The new metamorphosis techniques' - interesting. How the hell did they hold their own against the Sontarans BEFORE they could shapeshift? And of all the ways to win wars by changing your own biology, is shapeshifting REALLY the one to go for?
'You used to control the whole of the Mutters Spiral once.' They DID! When! Didn't some stupid computer in SJA control our galaxy too? And what were the Time Lords and the Daleks doing while THEIR galaxy was being overrun? Leaving it all to our heroic liberators THE SONTARANS?
Earth will be the powerbase for the final glorious Rutan victory WHY and HOW, exactly?
'The Mothership will blast this planet into molten rock' - hang on, whatever happened to using it as a powerbase for the final glorious victory?!
'You used to control the whole of the Mutters Spiral once.' They DID! When! Didn't some stupid computer in SJA control our galaxy too?
Are we sure Mutters Spiral is what the Time Lords call our galaxy? About Time was pretty dubious about this.
Also, are we sure Skaro and Gallifrey are in Earth's galaxy? They're usually assumed to be, but I don't recall any definite statements.
'The Mothership will blast this planet into molten rock' - hang on, whatever happened to using it as a powerbase for the final glorious victory?!
Melting the Earth doesn't destroy it, just sterilises it, wiping out the humans, the Silurians, the Silent, the faeries (from Torchwood), and everyone else who might complain about the Rutans moving in.
Once the Earth cooled down, the Rutans would have a large ball of barren rock on which to build bases for their space fleets.
It might seem easier to just use Mars, but the Rutans are hardly the only invaders to bypass the red planet - old treaties with the Ice Warriors, perhaps.
Are we sure Mutters Spiral is what the Time Lords call our galaxy? About Time was pretty dubious about this.
I'd trust TARDIS Wikia over About Time on a factual issue any day:
Mutter's Spiral
Also, are we sure Skaro and Gallifrey are in Earth's galaxy? They're usually assumed to be, but I don't recall any definite statements.
TARDIS Wikia again:
'the Eighth Doctor explained to humans Grace Holloway and Chang Lee that Gallifrey was "[o]n the other side of your galaxy" and "250 million light-years away" from Earth. (TV: Doctor Who) A Time Lord who came to speak to the Third Doctor said that he had just travelled "29,000 light years". (TV: Terror of the Autons)' - um...as anyone would be well within their rights to dismiss the Eighth Doctor as a pathological liar...how many light-years in this galaxy? More than 29,000, right?
Though I suppose the Time Lord MIGHT not have come straight from Gallifrey...
It's not quite so helpful on Skaro:
'Skaro was described as being "in the next universe but one". (PROSE: Dr Who in an Exciting Adventure with the Daleks)'. Gee, thanks.
'The Mothership will blast this planet into molten rock' - hang on, whatever happened to using it as a powerbase for the final glorious victory?!
Melting the Earth doesn't destroy it, just sterilises it, wiping out the humans, the Silurians, the Silent, the faeries (from Torchwood), and everyone else who might complain about the Rutans moving in.
Hmm. That's true. Though it does seem an enormous expenditure of energy. And bound to draw Sontaran (and other species') attention. And it's not like they'd feel particularly threatened by humans (especially given the examples the Rutan Scout first encountered). And they wouldn't have noticed all the other intelligent creatures sharing our planet - well, WE usually don't.
Once the Earth cooled down, the Rutans would have a large ball of barren rock on which to build bases for their space fleets.
How long would the molten rock take to cool down? Rutans prefer the cold. And if you're building a space fleet you don't WANT a barren rock, you want lots of minerals and a large slave-labour force. Both of which would have been provided by Earth before you, oops, reduced it to molten rock.
It might seem easier to just use Mars, but the Rutans are hardly the only invaders to bypass the red planet - old treaties with the Ice Warriors, perhaps.
The Osirians and the Ambassadors and the humans and the Time Lords didn't hesitate to trample all over the sacred red soil of Mars. I don't see Rutans making or respecting any treaties.
I'd trust TARDIS Wikia over About Time on a factual issue any day
About Time claims that in Deadly Assassin Engin wouldn't have talked about Earth being in Mutter's Spiral if he was referring to his own galaxy. Presumably, About Time thinks he would have said 'our galaxy' or similar instead.
how many light-years in this galaxy? More than 29,000, right?
Our galaxy is about 100,000-120,000 light years across, so Eight's 250 million light years would put Gallifrey well outside our galaxy,
Though I suppose the Time Lord MIGHT not have come straight from Gallifrey...
That's what About Time suggests, but they do admit there's not enough evidence to make a firm statement either way.
'Skaro was described as being "in the next universe but one".
People did use to talk about galaxies as island universes. In 'Dalek Masterplan' the Earth apparently has a galaxy wide empire, which wouldn't leave much room for a Dalek empire in the same galaxy.
How long would the molten rock take to cool down?
A few thousand years.
you don't WANT a barren rock, you want lots of minerals and a large slave-labour force.
Minerals are important because of the elements in them, and mere melting won't make those go away. To do that takes nuclear reactions, not just flames.
They can always import slaves from the rest of their empire.
I don't see Rutans making or respecting any treaties.
So why did the Rutans, the Sontarans, and practically everyone else ignore Mars. Were they all that desperate to face the Doctor, or could they just not resist the chance to see cats in all their glory?
In 'Dalek Masterplan' the Earth apparently has a galaxy wide empire, which wouldn't leave much room for a Dalek empire in the same galaxy.
But since no one is supposed to have heard of the Daleks for hundreds of years before Master Plan, that's not such a problem.
About Time claims that in Deadly Assassin Engin wouldn't have talked about Earth being in Mutter's Spiral if he was referring to his own galaxy.
Oh. That's actually quite a good point.
How long would the molten rock take to cool down?
A few thousand years.
So the Rutan plan is to all come over to Earth cos one crashed Scout says it's, what, 'Mostly Harmless' after a few hours there, and blast it to molten rock and then orbit it for a few thousand years to wait for it to cool down again before setting down to make it their powerbase to sweep the Sontaran scum from our galaxy...?
No wonder we never see any Rutans again.
They can always import slaves from the rest of their empire.
But why bother when there's an Earth-grown slave population? And with THIS kind of attitude, how likely ARE they to have living slaves on other planets?
So why did the Rutans, the Sontarans, and practically everyone else ignore Mars. Were they all that desperate to face the Doctor, or could they just not resist the chance to see cats in all their glory?
Judging by the 'molten rock' thing, they weren't coming to pet our occhies. So we're back to the undeniable fact that Earth, Earth, bloody Earth (OK, and Tivoli) are irresistible to aliens for reasons sadly STILL unexplained.
Oh, and just to confirm that the NOVELS claimed Earth and Gallifrey were in the same galaxy (which is no doubt how this 'fact' got so firmly lodged in my head despite their later uncanonising):
'The People's forces will find ways to reach their enemy's home galaxy, the same spiral which contains the Earth.' - Walking to Babylon.
James Goss re Sutekh in DWM: 'In the original story, he sits down. Then, about halfway through Part Four, Sutekh stands up. Then, somewhere near the end, Sutekh stands still. Sutekh is the stillest Doctor Who monster ever invented...He is this static force of complete evil. What is suggested through Pyramids of Mars is that Sutekh is so incredibly powerful, so omnipotent, so lethal, that if he ever broke into even a gentle stride, that would be the end of the universe' - blimey, I totally missed THAT point. Possibly because he's doing all sorts of things in The True History of Faction Paradox without the universe exploding. (Can't, to be honest, quite remember if he moved in Bernice Summerfield: The Triumph of Sutekh.)
Federation delegate Arcturas in Curse Of Peladon.
Okay, I can understand Eckersley turning traitor, he was just an average grunt looking to pick up a few extra bucks.
But a Federation delegate??
The Nimon were pretty clever invaders. They show up, offer a planet all sorts of goodies. They find someone like Soldeed, who believes everything they say, and this schmuck more or less hands over the planet without a fuss.
By the time said schmuck realizes the truth,, it's too late.
Skonnos was just lucky that the Doctor was there.
Skonnos wasn't THAT lucky - presumably (and hopefully) they'll all just DIE with no women to breed from - it's the next planet on the Nimon's list that got lucky.
Actually that should be 'Nimons'' not 'Nimon's'. Obviously, despite the evidence of my own eyes, I am infected with Soldeed's reluctance to believe that there's more than one....
Three! I have seen three!
No wonder we never see any Rutans again.
They should bring back the Rutans. I mean with CGI (which didn't exist in 1977), there shouldn't be any problems.
The Chelonians of the NAs were canonised.
Well, they WERE gonna get a HELL of a lot more canonised than a brief name-check in The Pandorica Opens, RTG was planning on wheeling out everyone's favourite giant warmongering hermaphrodite turtles in Planet of the Dead, right up until the moment He realised that 'we can't ask an actor to wear a tortoise suit in the bloody desert - we'll kill him.'
So we got those bloody flies instead.
They make far more sense in the context of that story.
Who, turtles or flies?
The flies.
The Chelonians arriving to conquer would have made just as much sense as the flies arriving to buy ••••. And would have spared us all that 'Plenty of waste matter for them to absorb.' 'By waste matter, you mean -' 'They feed off what others leave behind from their behind, if you see what I mean' stuff that the Doctor shouldn't know, let alone speak, of.
And the Chelonians having magic bus-wheel-sized clamps at the bottom of a shaft would have made precisely as much sense as the Tritovores having magic bus-wheel-sized clamps at the bottom of a shaft.
Plus it would have spared us the whole (as the Scottish Falsetto Sock Puppets put it) 'Creatures with the hands of a fly and a costume that fashions with a zip' thing...
Heeeeyyyyyy...
Where's the Tim Shaw thread in Monsters??????!!!!
He's made TWO appearances and deserves his own spot, right between the Master and Davros!!!!!!
Who's with me????????
Who's with me????????
No one in the history of the universe?
**sheepishly raises hand**
You don't MEAN it!
If he makes it to a third appearance I think Emily is required by law to give him his own thread!
Even Chibnall wouldn't be stupid enough to -
- Oh, who do I think I'm kidding.
And, let's face it, it's not as if his Dalek episode was any more popular than his Tim Shaw ones...
quote:The cat in Planet of Giants. He thought Hartnell was a right tit.
Fugitive of the Judoon:
Why are the Judoon STAMPING people's hands instead of marking 'em with a felt-tip pen the way the gods intended?
'Category, human. Fugitive match, negative' - do they have to say this EVERY TIME? How about we just ASSUME these are the results of every check-up until a Judoon roars 'FUGITIVE MATCH!!!'?
RUTH: No crime. An accident. And, besides, a Judoonese Talwak Freighter like this, moving at 80 million clicks an hour, entered interstellar space 12 seconds ago. No one has jurisdiction in interstellar space. So, no laws, and no crime. Isn't that right, Doctor?
DOCTOR: Yes. - I don't believe for a moment that no one has jurisdiction in interstellar space (I mean, we've all seen The Space Pirates. Well, bits of it) and even if I DID believe it I wouldn't believe that the Judoon would RESPECT this.
'Category, human. Fugitive match, negative' - do they have to say this EVERY TIME? How about we just ASSUME these are the results of every check-up until a Judoon roars 'FUGITIVE MATCH!!!'?
They have a procedure to follow, and they follow the procedure. If nothing else, they are disciplined critters.
Surely some of their employers accompany their missions and some of their employers would be driven so mad by the first few thousand 'Category, human. Fugitive match, negative's that they'd order them to shut the hell up, at which point even the Judoon would realise how unnecessary that statement is, and how nice it is to rest your vocal cords occasionally...?
I think the people who hire Judoons usually point them at their targets and then let them carry out their mission as they see fit. Employers like Gat who come along to look over their shoulders appear to be an exception. The Judoons were obvioulsy surprised by her intervention.
OK, I'll take your word for it, Judoon facial expressions aren't my forte...
(Hopefully Revolution of the Daleks will give us more Judoon-related happiness to clarify.)
The space pig is alive on a parallel world:
https://imgur.com/a/m1kiHvN
BLESS!
(Only frankly I think the Doctor would be a lot happier about it, certainly when he was Eccy he never displayed for anyone else a fraction of the love and compassion he showed that pig. Come to think of it, that was his first day of filming wasn't it? Those very, very brief hours before everything went very, very sour between him n'Who...)
The Siren:
https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Siren_(The_Curse_of_the_Black_Spot)?file=Siren.jpg
Marking ten years since The Curse of the Black Spot.
Perhaps with several new episodes with him as the baddie, perhaps the Celestial Toymaker deserves his own category, Emily?
I'm only guessing, of course, but if the Toymaker can change his form, then we might find out that he was in other stories as other villains from the past (ie . Mr. Finch, Professor Zaroff, Mawdryn, Sil, etc.).
There must be a reason why he looks so different these days. Maybe his species regenerates, too? Why should the Time Lords get all the body-swapping fun?
IF people can think of enough to say about the character (in Metaphysical Villains) he'll get his own section.
The Meep: A murderous stuffed toy. He spent about 5 minutes pretending to be cute and cuddly, but anyone with a drop of genre awareness knew he wouldn't be.
Good at gloating, bad at actually accomplishing anything.
Oh, I think he was pretty good at accomplishing stuff. He pretty-much destroyed London (not his fault that, er, time magically rolled back or something).
Bookwyrme - but anyone with a drop of genre awareness knew he wouldn't be.
My nephew, Brandon, called it, and then I pointed out to him that it was based on a comic book story, so probably.
What's the quote about Who writers and the back of a lorry? ;-)
'While talent borrows and genius steals, New Adventure writers get it off the back of a lorry, no questions asked.'
Oh, I think he was pretty good at accomplishing stuff. He [...]
'He'..?
I didn't read the comic, or if I did it was too long ago for me to remember. But in the audio, while I did call it, the 'good guys' did a lot more bad things, like planting a bomb inside the Doctor's stomach to explode when he came in contact with the Meep.
In the tv version, they were generic gun-shooters, making it easier to see the flip, but on the plus side, they got to the flip much sooner.
Oh, I think he was pretty good at accomplishing stuff. He [...]
'He'..?
Eek! Oh, hang on, I'm sure I'm just following the comic n'audio, both of which predate the TV story...*frantically checks TARDIS Wiki* AHA!
'this version of the Meep was said to be male. (PROSE: Beep the Meep gets 3000 years, COMIC: Star Beast II, etc.)'
Oh, I think he was pretty good at accomplishing stuff. He pretty-much destroyed London (not his fault that, er, time magically rolled back or something).
Precisely my point. The Meep's villainous, destroy everything for no good reason drive has an "undo the damage" setting. What kind of monster includes that in its doomsday device?
Shame the writer didn't slip in a 'reverse the polarity of the neutron flow' line. ;-)