Moderator's Note: This was Mike's original Romana II summary:

Maybe it was a change in writers, maybe it was the actress. Whatever it was, Lalla Ward was great as Romana #2. She was wonderful in "City of Death", especially her scene in the coffee shop with Duggan. I'm glad she didn't have to return to Gallifrey.



But she did eventually, if you believe the book Blood Harvest.

As I've stated elsewhere, Romana was probably the closest DW has come to having a female Doctor. Having an 'equal' as the Doctor's companion was a good idea, but I think it was best that she left when she did; the writers, I'm sure, found it tougher to script for her than most companions. She couldn't be reduced to the 'foil' who keeps asking the Doctor what's going on. Had she stayed on longer, it might have become harder to keep her as an equal to the Doctor. In this light, I'm surprised she lasted as long as she did.

I guess it didn't hurt that she was in love with the lead actor.

If only the writer's had learned from their success. Lalla Ward was great at delivering witty lines. "City of Death" was her shining moment, but she was good in "Warrior's Gate" and "The Horns of Nimon" too.

And in Creature from the Pit - the way she handled those hirstute kidnappers was wonderful. Pity she had to start off cowering from daleks, but unlike most other Companions, she actually got better as time went on.

I wonder what The Adventures of Romana and K-9 would have been like with the Tharils and the rest of E-space? A darnn sight better than K-9 And Company from what I can gather...

I think there are a couple of NA's that do just that, only with Romana #3 (she's regenerated).

SPOILER... from the NAs I've read, Blood Harvest, Romana went back to the planet in State Of Decay, leaving K-9 with the Tharils. There she contacted the Doctor and eventually was returned to Gallifrey where she is offered a place on the High Council. Later, possibly in The Eight Doctors or Goth Opera, or maybe another novel we discover she is Lord President. I can't recall that she actually regenerated though.

Sorry, I jumped the gun. I read a summary of an upcoming 8th Doctor novel, "Shadows of Avalon", that has Romana regenerating into a 1930's flapper persona. She will still be President of the High Council.

'30's flapper as President. Cool! But does that mean that the Doctor isn't President. He was as of "Remembrance of the Daleks" (Doc#7). I guess there is some novel that explains that.

What I am curious about, though, is Romana's method of regeneration. She goes through 3 or 4 changes of appearance before settling on one that looks just like a certain princess (or Queen?) from the previous episode. I don't recall her life being in mortal danger to cause such a metamorphasis. It's more like, "oh, this body looks pretty good, so I go with this one."
Did she go through several regenerations because she is a victim of fashion?

Or does female Timelord regeneration work on a different principle?

I always thought that all 'Timelords' (male and female - which is a whole other debate) probably have the ability Romana has, to pick and choose a face/body to go with on regeneration. Somewhere in my subconscious I assumed that the Doctor didn't have this ability because of a difference in his genetic make-up.

Mind you, thinking about the faces and bodies of some of the chaps we meet on Gallifrey, perhaps I'm gravely mistaken ...

Lunier--since it was stated in "Trial of a Time Lord" that the Doctor was no longer President. At the end of TOATL, he turned down an offer to be reinstated. I suspect that #7 was bluffing in "Remembrance of the Daleks." Of course, it depends upon which time period the Doctor was in office. Perhaps in 1963 he was, but whenever the Trial took place, he wasn't.

Confused? I sure am.

Maybe the Doctor can't choose because he is half-human? Mind you, the Time Lords are quite happy to let him choose at the end of The War Games, he just doesn't want to.

I just assumed that the Seventh Doctor was exaggerating about being President to impress Davros.

I always thought that Romana's changes of appearance in Destiny all counted as one regeneration. Of course, there was never any on-screen explanation as to why she'd waste even one life. Being better trained and qualified, and doing it voluntarily instead of in an emergency would explain why, unlike the Doctor, she could control the process.

There's a line in Christmas on a Rational Planet that mentions Time Lords from 'Newblood Houses' who change their bodies like they do their clothes. This would explain Romana, of course, except that she's only 630 years younger than the Doctor, and I don't see stagnant Time Lord society and technology developing that quickly.

Change their bodies like clothes? Does this mean that they have surpassed the thirteen regenerations limit?

I chalk it up to being a 'girl thing'. Human women have 2 X chromosones, Human men have an X & Y chromosone, and I believe that is why men tend go bald and have a greater chance of color blindness. I just assume that the Gallifreyan equivalant of X & Y chromosones limits Time 'Lords' to 12 regenerations while Time 'Ladies' can change bodies as they would change clothes.

Oh, Keith, I can't believe you posted that.

Take it away, Emily....

Maybe there is some artificial method of changing appearance, which is not regenerating per se (which is only caused by death), but caused by something like the thingy in 'Mawdryn Undead'. Of course, maybe she didn't regenerate unil the final one, but instead used some kind of holographic projector.

Mike, are you suggesting that I'd attack Keith for that idea? I rather like the notion of Time Ladies living forever whilst the male of the species pathetically drops dead after a mere 13 regenerations. Unfortunately, I have to disagree since I'm quite convinced Time Lords can change sex during regeneration (and I now have the Curse of the Fatal Death to back that up, though I'd have to be pretty desperate to invoke it).

Given the number of regenerations Mawdryn and co, and the Minyans, artifically went through, I'm sure Time Lord technology could rustle up a way of extending their 13 'natural' lives. That was what they promised the Master in Five Doctors - though knowing the High Council they were probably lying through their teeth.

No, I thought you'd say something about the "women like to change their clothes often" comment.

I often wondered just how the High Council was planning to uphold their bargain with the Master. I would not try to bluff the Master with an empty bargain.

The 'change bodies as they would clothes' line appears in Emily's post prior to mine, Mike.

I used the term Time 'Ladies' because I've usually seen Romana referred to as a Time Lady. You could replace it with 'member of a Newblood House', but that's a bit cumbersome.

Just because a Gallifreyan's surface appearance can change from apparently male to apparently female would not necasarily alter their sex, especially since we don't know if they even have different sexes. We just assume they do because we see what Humans think of as male & female. The Newblood Houses could be the next step in Time Lord evolution.

As for the Master, well, he was already in a stolen body, maybe the High Council thought they could have used the same technique to give the Master a body of a clone or brain dead infant?

I've just read the NA 'Head Games', and there is a line that mentions that Timelords limited the number of regenerations (for psychological reasons, apparently). If they have that much control, then it can't be that big a problem to add a few (maybe as rewards, like the Master).

Anyway, Keith, what brain dead infants? There are no timelord children.

Emily- How the hull can you think of using COTFD as evidence? People might start to think it was canon or something!

Speaking of COTFD, (lie mode on) which I truly believe to be canon (lie mode off), it does bring an interesting suggestion. That at the end of a Timelord's regeneration he becomes, err, a she, and the whole cycle begins again as female, but with different properties, such as regenerating at a whim without loss of life. Kind of raises the whole chicken and egg question to new levels. Kind of nice for the women, since they don't have to go through adolescence with pimples and all, but I suspect that some women may not like the fact that they had to be a man first.

However, I am going to throw that whole argument in the trash. Susan was a child of 15 or 16 in the Hartnell stories and I for one believe her to be a grandchild of the Doctor. So bang goes that theory. It also means he must have had sex at one time (shock! horror! Oh the humanity!) Kind of makes you wonder what he and certain companions were up to between episodes. I certainly wondered about that, especially since he seemed pretty close to Tegan...okay, maybe I better shut up before I am sent to an asylum or something.

Ed: It just seems to me that if an organism grows it would pass through a period of infancy.
I don't know what it says about the Time Lord lifecycle in any of the MA's, NA's, OA's or any A's you wish to quote since I haven't read them.

Luiner: An organism does not need to have sex to procreate. Some organisms divide by fission. ;-)

Timelords stop having children for some reason (a curse? it's been a while since I read Cat's Cradle). That's why we never see any when the Doctor goes back to Gallifrey. They are created from genetic looms. Or something.

OA's? What the heck are OA's?

EDAs, PDAs, NAs, MAs, maybe, but OA's? What do they own?

Susan was the Other's granddaughter apparently (although a severe lack of Lungbarrow means that this info is at best second hand). The Other programmed his genes into aforementioned genetic looms and then buggered off. The Doctor was created from the looms, and is somehow the reincarnation of the Other.

OA=Original Adventures, another name for the TV shows.

Lunier--fascinating as your theory is, I don't think it works. Romana was 125 years old when she met the Doctor. If we follow your theory, she would have to had gone through all her regenerations in less than 125 years, which is pretty reckless.

OA's are a joke. I was being sarcastic.

Although, I suppose some writer could start doing a series of stories about the Other's Adventures, at which point there would be OA's.

Just my luck. I write a possible explanation about OA's and it gets posted after Mike's explanation.

As much as we all may hate it, the Doctor is supposedly half-human meaning inter-species breeding is possible, although for all we know it took place in a lab but you have to ask why that may be so. Most people assume the Doctor would have had an Earth mother.
And if the Time Lords could offer the Master a new life cycle in The Five Doctors, why was Borusa so adamant about immortality?

In a lab, a cheap hotel room, the back seat of a Ford Cortina, on top of Horsenden Hill - is location important? And as to why - well, sometimes a mummy bunny and a daddy bunny who love each other very much get certain urges ...

I am sorry. I appear to have lapsed into misquoting Blackadder.

Perhaps Borusa sought an immortality over and above the semi-immortality of Time Lords. Maybe he was just the type who always wants to go one better.

Um, ok, I understand your flippancy, but what do these OA's (sic) own?

I was surprised that the Master was surprised by the High Council's offer of a whole new life cycle. Even more surprised that he didn't attempt to somehow get it anyway in a future story.

Well, since the Master seems to be able to steal someone else's body when it is convenient (Keeper of Traken/Logopolis) he probably thought the offer wasn't good enough.
And Mike, I already decided that Timeladies don't come from Timelords. I figure that they use good ol' fashioned birds and the bees stuff, especially since I think they are the future of the human species.
As for the 'Other' being the grandfather of Susan, all I can say is "Wha....?" I haven't read 99.9999% of the novels so I have no clue. Someone please explain.
As for misquoting Blackadder, I do it all the time. Doesn't do me any good, but I find it enjoyable. Carry on Sarah.

I guess I can accept that Timelords reproduce by fission, Keith, but it doesn't seem to be as much fun as human reproduction. But I've only had experience in the latter, so I am no expert.
Certainly, the Timelords don't seem to know what fun is, except for the Doctor, of course, and probably the Master. The Master probably thinks that goatee of his is sexy to the ladies...hmmmm, maybe I should grow one and see if it works.

Luiner, you have some weird ideas. Firstly: don't grow a goatee. Whilst mercifully I wouldn't have to look at it, just the THOUGHT of it is sickening enough. Anyway, I think it was the combination of beard AND mass-murder that appealed to Queen Galea.

Please expand on this 'Time Ladies don't come from Time Lords and they are the future of the human species' business. I think it's the other way round: Time Ladies are infertile and need human women to continue the species. No Time Lady has had a baby for millenia but Leela got pregnant by Andred in Lungbarrow. Speaking of which, Andred mentions that he doesn't think other Time Lords ever have sex: it's just something they observe other species doing.

To elaborate on Edje's description: the Other was up there with Rasillon and Omega as a founder of Gallifrey, and at the end of his twelfth regeneration he sort of threw himself into the Loom of the House of Lungbarrow and emerged as a baby Doctor. So they're related by reincarnation rather than regeneration, and those faces we see in Brain of Morbius are the Other's. Anyway...just after he nicks his TARDIS the First Doctor goes back in time and meets the Other's granddaughter, who recognises him as her grandfather. So that's how he acquires Susan - no sex involved.

Edje...I can't remember where you're from, but I have an idea it's England for some reason. If you're anywhere near London, your severe lack of Lungbarrow can be remedied at Charing Cross Library. Though frankly it's not worth the bother.

The Master was only able to take over Tremas' body in The Keeper Of Traken because he had the Keeper's powers. In the novelisation of The Five Doctors, it indicates the body would eventually decay and the Master would have to hijack another body and so on, describing it as a ghoulish way of existence. I don't think the Master thinks that is an ideal existence and, in the book, when offered the new life cycle it says something like "it was all the Master could to contain his excitement".

Oh, come on Emily, if I were to grow a goatee and stare into your eyes deeply saying "You will submit to my will, I am the Master (maybe wiggle my eyebrows a bit)", you wouldn't like it?
It worked for Jo Grant, after all.

On second thoughts, you'd probably crack up laughing and cause my male ego to wither and die.

So I won't do that.

As for other matters, I find it somewhat sad that Timeladies are barren, and that the Doctor can't have sex in the canon stories. And that Timelords have to act as voyeurs of other species to understand the whole process. It all smacks of prudishness which is typical of American culture, where we seem to be more comfortable with killing each other than to be caught seen with an exposed nipple. I hate to think that the UK has assimilated American culture to such an extent.

Chris, I had forgotten about the Keeper's powers, but if we were to accept the Eigth Doctor's telemovie, he can still take over other peoples bodies as if he were some toxic infection. Quite frankly he does have other avenues to keep living, and though not as good as regeneration, still beats being dead.

Emily- I am in England, but not in London. No- I live in the dullest crappiest city in the country- Chichester!

The local library has a wide selection of... um... The Also People. Well, they've got some EDAs, but they're all rubbish. (Nah, I'm messing about, some of them are dead good.)

First off, I wear a goatee and the next person to make a disparaging remark will find themselves shrunk to 6 inches. ;-)

Secondly, Luiner, I wonder about your claiming the UK has adopted American prudishness. It seems like it's the British fans who can't accept the idea that the Doctor has a grandchild. All American fans I know have no problem with Susan being the Doctor's REAL granchild. It's British prudishness that keeps them from accepting the idea of the Doctor procreating. (I wonder if it's a Messiah thing? "JC never had sex so why should DW.")

If truth be told, I have a full beard, though I am thinking about shaving it off to just a goatee.

When I talk about American prudishness, I mean what is shown on the TV, which is very little. I am not talking about cable, which you have to pay for. On Network television there is quite a bit of censorship, certain words that Brits take for granted are not acceptable in the US. Certain bits of flesh that Brits take for granted are not acceptable in the US. However, killing people without remorse is okay here.
Okay, it's been a long while since I lived in the UK but I do remember several racy movies or series shown on the BBC, usually BBC 2 late at night or Channel 4.
So I find it ironic that the Brits are more uncomfortable with the Doctor having certain needs that all of life have, than the Americans. After all, our country was founded by Puritans that believed that sex was bad. And we still suffer that ethic. Which is probably why pornographic videos are so succussful here, because it is a taboo subject. There is always some politician (usually Republican) that wants to ban it. In Dallas-Fort Worth, NYPD Blue was not shown for a while because it showed milliseconds of exposed flesh. There were demonstrations and letter campaigning against it, usually by the Christian Right.

Well, better get off the soapbox.
By the way there is a tradition, though not sanctioned by any major church, that since JC was a Rabbi (as stated in the Bible), that he could indeed have been (some say 'must have') been married so it is quite possible he had kids. The Merovignion Kings of early France were said to be direct descendents of his, though I doubt it. Sounds too much like the Royal Family (German-Norman-Swedish) being descended from King Arthur (Gaelic).

Your comparison of UK vs USA on sexual inhibition is interesting, Luiner. Over here, we're traditionally supposed to be very uptight about anything sexual - indeed, there's an extremely annoying advert for British Airways circulating at the moment in which an American expounds on the British stereotype and refers to our 'prudishness'.

However, speaking as an English woman, I've never had a problem with the Doctor being a father and grandfather. When I was a child watching the show, I accepted it as perfectly normal and it made not one jot of difference in my perception of the character as an alien and my hero. Now I'm older, I'm confused by the constant attempts to make the Doctor asexual. It seems that Andrew Cartmel et al went out of their way to provide explanations for the existence of Susan which did not depend on any kind of sexual reproduction on behalf of the Doctor.

Challenging assumptions is a great facet of science fiction. Yet I get the feeling that the whole Loom thing was introduced not as an interesting alien idea to contrast with human (and indeed animal) reproduction, but because the idea of the Doctor as a sexual being really upsets some fans.

Why? I'm genuinely interested.

Do people think that to accept the Doctor's sexuality would result in a one-way ticket to porn-city? Just because the Doctor has procreated doesn't mean that every single new Doctor Who story would have to refer to this one aspect of his life.

Perhaps the writers were afraid of Captain Kirk syndrome. In the original Star Trek, everytime an attractive woman came into the view of the good Captain, he automatically started romancing her. After a while it begain to seem a bit silly.

I've always like the fact that we could dispense with that plot line in Doctor Who. Well, okay, the companions occasionally had that problem, but they'd usually stay with who (or what) ever they were attracted to.

I agree absolutely - I don't think there is any need or indeed any room for a romantic interest for the Doctor in canon DW. Let's leave that kind of thing to fan fiction!

The first Doctor's gentle flirtation with the Aztec lady whose name I've forgotten was fitting in that story and at that broadcasting era, but society has moved on now and if romance is even suggested then the audience demands consummation.

(For example, the major issue about the X Files very quickly became 'will they or won't they', rather than focusing on the quality of television drama, despite (IMO) no two individuals being less suited to each other than Mulder and Scully.)

I don't mind the kiss in the telemovie any more than I mind the telemovie entire, because I don't perceive it as particularly romantic.

But fighting tooth and nail to convince the viewer/reader that the Doctor is utterly sexless seems to be swinging too far the other way. Why make it such a big deal?

I believe the Doctor 'flirted' with the Aztec lady because he was hoping to learn how to get back in the tomb and back to his TARDIS. (I loved his reaction when he found out he had accidently proposed.)

That was the hot chocolate thing, wasn't it? Great stuff!

Certainly he had an ulterior motive (after all, he's the Doctor), but I can't believe he was that clinical in his approach. After all, he took the brooch thingy as a memento and I seem to recall (can't remember whether it was book or TV) references to the brooch and its sentimental value, afterwards.

Mike brings up a good point. The majority of the companions in Dr.Who were female. It would be a little distracting if the series became little more than a sex romp. Still, in the back of my mind I always wonder what goes on in between episodes on the TARDIS. Even if the Doctor is supposed to be asexual, the female companions are not. I don't pretend to be an expert on what attracts a woman (I am always amazed that occasionly one finds ME attractive, go figure) but I suspect that at least one of Doctors is attractive to women.

As far as the X-Files, I never understood the will they/won't they bit that fans entertain themselves. Muldur and Scully are at many times atogonistic professionals with a very strong friendship. It is fun to watch how close they get to each other (and Scully's jealousy of Bambi during the cockroach episode was an eye opener) but if they ever did consumate their love? for each other I suspect it would be the end of the series.

As far as the ulterior motive of the Doc during the Aztecs, he was still obviously attracted to her (I seem to remember him prattling along about her to the other guys) and I got the impression, maybe mistakenly, that he sort of wished he could of hanged around a little longer.

Luiner, it must be your beard that makes you such a babe magnet ;)

Looking at the 'nookie in the TARDIS' question from the companion's angle is interesting. I wouldn't want to pick out which Doctors were most likely to attract romantic interest because that says more about me than about women in general. Suffice it to say that many are not without their charms.

It would be a reasonable assumption that at some time during all his travels, the Doctor has found himself travelling with a companion who is attracted to him. We never see this explicitly in the episodes (though some on-screen chemistries are stronger than others) simply because the immediacy of the adventure leaves no room for puppy dog looks and innuendo.

Once we consider the possible Doctor/companion interaction in those calms between the storms, we are restricted only by our own assessment of the characters, which will vary wildly from fan to fan.

Personally, I don't think that the Doctor comes across as being half as asexual as a character like Jeremy Brett's Holmes, for example. Yet having the potential for a romantic side doesn't mean I think he should be running round with his trousers down all the time, either.

I simply believe that in canon DW we will sensibly never explore this facet of the Doctor's life. My original confusion rested on why the intricate explanations for the likes of Susan's existence should be contrived.

Interesting that you bring up Holmes, Sarah. You may recall that Holmes did have a romantic interest in the story, "A Scandal in Bohemia." Nothing explicit happened, but it was obvious by the way Holmes behaved that he was smitten by Irene Adler.

The closest I've even seen the Doctor come to showing those types of feelings would have been between #4 and Romana #2 (#3 and Jo would be second). I'm not implying that there was any sexual contact, but rather a deeper, even more spiritual type of affection.

Doctor #8's kiss was probably a side-effect of the regeneration, much like #6's attempted strangling of Peri.

Only worse.

I'm one of the really rabid proponents of the Doctor-mustn't-have-sex school of thought, but I can't explain why. He just MUSTN'T, OK? Maybe the Completely Useless Encylopedia wasn't far wrong in its reasoning...

If we're talking about Companions who fancied the Doctor:

Sam. It was pretty obvious.

Tegan. A lot of people seem to think this. I suppose it would explain why she screamed at him all the time.

And Companions the Doctor might have fancied:

Romana. Well, OK, I wouldn't have noticed anything if I didn't know they were in love in what is euthemistically described as 'real life'.

The Fifth Doctor: Nyssa. He KISSED her!!! Ugg.

The Fourth Doctor: Nyssa. It was noted (not by me) that he couldn't keep his hands off her in Keeper of Traken.

Keith - do you really have a goatee?

*Vomits*

Well, maybe I shouldn't criticise. One of the proudest moments of my life was when my best friend (who I'd dragged to many a university Doctor Who meeting) claimed that 'All Doctor Who fans have long hair, shifty eyes and goatee beards. And Emily you fit in perfectly.'

I have one too, Emily (a goatee, that is). I think it looks rather nice, in an evil sort of way.

I never noticed #4 manhandling Nyssa. I'm going to have to look for that.

So, from the 4th to the 6th Doctor, plus a bit of hanky panky in the 8th, we've got some sexual awareness. All the others, neuter as a eunuch. I mean, look at Doctor #3 in "The Time Monster." In old Atlantis he's surrounded by young women in plunging necklines, and he doesn't even give them a 2nd look.

BTW, those dresses were edited for TV. Pictures of ancient Cretans (the models for the Atlanteans) show that women wore dresses that completely exposed their breasts. Let's see the Doctor overlook THAT!

Awwww....Sarah (blush)(blush)(stares at his foot digging into the ground) Gosh.

Thanks Emily, now I have to watch Traken again because I don't recall that either. Well, any excuse to watch a Dr.Who episode is a good one. And I wonder if maybe you are a little jealous and want the Doctor all to yourself, which may explain your hostility to him fancying a companion or two, hmmm? ;)

Ancient Crete wasn't the only one with the women being topless. Since most of the early civilizations were subtropical or even tropical (as in the case of mesoamerica) this only makes sense, just too hot to wear more. I wouldn't be surprised if the Aztec women were also topless.

Well I would just like to announce I possess no goatee whatsoever. Golf clap now.
Tegan and the Doc doing some horizontal folk dancing? That's why she was so cranky - bet you he was selfish in bed or some such.
Actually there was a fanfic story where Tegan finds herself pregnant once she is back on Earth and her medical doctor is surprised to hear two heartbeats emanating from her womb.
And Emily, don't you mean *euphemistically*?

Um, yes I do. But I'll forgive you for pointing out my shortcomings Chris, as you and you alone have no goatee. (Mike...tell me you're lying!)

I didn't mean that the Doctor and Tegan actually DID anything...more that she was rather frustrated that he was more interested in cricket than in her.

Luiner...lies, lies!! Actually I'm jealous of ALL the Companions but not for that reason. What did any of them ever do to deserve tours round the universe? Why not ME???????

Mike, in Timewyrm: Genesys the Doctor spent half his time with a topless priestess. Naturally he was a perfect gentleman. I got the feeling this was Virgin's rather pathetic attempt to show how 'adult' their books were going to be.

Emily, I completely forgot about T:G. Now I remember the scene where a slave girl tries to get Ace to wear the local fashions. I don't ever recall reading anything that showed Babylonians with the topless look (but then I'm not an expert on Babylonia).

It's true, I have a goatee, of the Roger Delgado variety.

Don't you get an identity crisis when you're wearing your scarf?

I don't mean to point out your shortcomings, as I have plenty of my own. No goatee though. It sounds like the Doctor is bringing his half-human side out and being a typical man - more interested in sport than women. Maybe men are really from Mars and women from Venus. Would explain this scaly green skin I've tried to hide all these years...

I've seen that book, 'Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus & Timelords Are From Gallifrey'.

As for Tegan & the Doctor... yeah, right. Personally I think there was a problem with the TARDIS and no matter when they went it was always the wrong time of Tegan's month. (Good thing I'm wearing my abestos suit. I think I'm about to catch a lot of Hell for that.)

Chris: I've notified the Goatee Squad and they will be by later today to speed up the growth of hair on your chinny chin chin. Muhahahaha!

I've never found sport more interesting than women. Doctor Who on the other hand...

Then again, maybe the Doctor needs a little Viagra. The lack of said medicine would explain Tegan's err...frustration?

Now donning on my bulletproof vest over my own abestos suit.

I wonder if this topic should have a discussion of its own, since it has little to do with Romana 2, except in 'reality' where Lalla Ward actually had sex with Tom Baker. At least I think so, but then the marriage was pretty short.

Hmmmm, Luiner, perhaps your last sentence in your post is related to your first sentence?

Completely unrelated to either Romana or sex, has anyone else noticed that there are suddenly a lot of goatee references on the Phantom Returns boards in the Star Wars section?

As for Cretan dresses, I seem to remember reading somewhere that in addition to the extra-low-cut dresses there were more modest peasant-type smocks.

Finally an actual Romana #2 comment. I liked her. Sometimes the character would be a little too girlish, i.e. screaming or being afraid. However, I liked the way Lalla Ward could deliver some funny lines with a straight face.

Hmmm....,
That was not my intention, but it sure makes a certain kind of sense in Tom/Lalla's marriage. Poor old Tom. He certainly complained about Leela's lack of dress on 'The Tom Baker Years', I just figured he was a bit of a prude. Now I see it in a whole new light.

Mike - the Holmes story you refer to. Is it the one where Watson tells us that Holmes always calls her "The Woman"? You're quite right, he did seem rather taken with the character, but on pretty much any occasion other than that his dealings with females gave no indication of attraction. Watson was always talking about how good-looking the damsels in distress might be, and Holmes reacted with utter aloofness.

We could all suggest the partnerships in DW which seem the closest; beyond platonic friendship. Different chemistries work for different people. I'm a big fan of the Doc7/Ace dynamic, but that never strayed into romance during the television stories. Like Mike says, it's a spiritual connection rather than a quickie on the console.

I've never read the Doc5/Tegan pregnancy story, but I've heard of it. Wasn't some politician outraged at it, or something? Can't remember where I read that. It was probably on this board ...

Anyway, there is a fair amount of fan fiction which explores romantic feelings on behalf of the Doctors and various companions. It's fun, it's sometimes quite poignant and it's utterly safe because it has little to do with the series.

Sarah- I have seen some fanfic like that, and while it is occasionally fun, poignant and safe, 99% of it is pretty terrible (although way ahead of Target and bloody excellent by the BBC's standards).

TRIVIA.....

The 2nd Romana was the wife of Tom Baker.

Actually, it was the actress that played her, Lalla Ward.

Lalla Ward makes a cameo appearance in the Dying Days - at least, there's a mention of 'Professor Dawkins and his wife.' But the Doctor doesn't notice, as usual when dealing with Companion look-alikes.

Thanks to Shadows of Avalon, Romana is now one of my least favourite people, though I suppose I should blame Romana III for this, rather than I or II.

Benny shags the 8th Doctor in 'The Dying Days'...
Um, the reason why I think pre-8th Doctor Doctors shouldn't be affected by 'love' or sexual in any way is simply because it's too human and takes away the alieness of the Doctor. It's also very soap-opera-like to have the Doctor get it on with his companions, trust the Americans to do it in the telemovie, but at least the Doctor was half-human in that.

BENNY DOES NOT SHAG THE DOCTOR IN THE DYING DAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Benny grabs him by the lapels, kisses him on the mouth and shoves him back on the bed. IIRC. This does NOT amount to sex. No doubt the Doctor was totally perplexed by this peculiar behaviour, put it down to her being so upset at leaving him, hastily extracted himself and fled back to the TARDIS.

'Under the Sun' specifically states that Benny has not slept with anyone since her divorce from Jason. So there.

'Infinity Doctors' has a scene where the Doctor dreams Benny is pregnant :)

This doesn't necessarily mean they had sex - Benny was pretty obsessed about getting pregnant during her marriage, no doubt the Doctor was dreaming of her reunion with Jason. Anyway, InfiniDocs is set in an alternative universe, or whatever. You don't happen to have a page reference, do you? I must have missed this, ah, interesting dream...

She's not mentioned by name of course, but the Doctor dreams of all his alternative companions - I think he sees Larna, Sam, Bernice, Izzy, Stacy and Patience.

I notice they're all female. (No Roz?)

Who's Izzy?

She's the Eight Doctor's companion in the Doctor Who Magazine comic strip.

Since all the alternate companions (to Larna) are 8th Doctor companions i assume it's safe to assume it *is* the 8th Doctor in 'InfiniDocs'

I don't think it's safe to make ANY assumptions about InfiniDocs.

Was Patience a companion? I've only come across here before in Cold Fusion the Fifth/Seventh Doctor novel.
OK, if it's the Eighth Doctor, how come he doesn't dream of Grace?

Patience was his wife, or some such, so that's why he'd dream of her.

Grace was obviously nowhere near as important as the 8th Doctor's actual companions and wife...

I'd say Grace was an actual Companion
before I'd say that this Izzy person was. OK,
she wasn't with him for long, but during that
time she did manage to kill him AND kiss him.
And at least she's canon, unlike those
dreadful comics.

Grace probably *was* in there too.
Even though I don't read them or have the means to read them, I don't see why the comics shouldn't be considered any less canon than the novels.

They killed Ace off in the comics... kinda contradicts the books, doesn't it?

You can say that again! Unless you happen to have read Prime Time, of course...

I wonder if Romana is still alive. The New Series has made no mention of her. Could she still be roaming around E-Space? If so, then perhaps they could bring her into the New Series. No doubt a new actress will have to play her, so they can just say she regenerated while in E-Space.

SPOILERS FOR END OF TIME:

Yes, between the Master, Rassilon, and Gallifrey (burning, buring), Time Lords never quite die, do they? Bit like Daleks.

You can't keep good characters down.

SPOILERS FOR END OF TIME:

I wonder if Romana is still alive. The New Series has made no mention of her. Could she still be roaming around E-Space?

The books claimed she returned to Gallifrey and became their mad War Queen - I suspect RTG owes them a bit of a debt for his crazy War President - but obviously this is uncanonical.

But if Romana HAD remained safe(ish) in E-Space, SURELY the Doctor would have nipped back there to find her? He needn't exactly confess he was the one who blew their planet to smithereens. And it would have stopped him being so lonely, though admittedly EVERY SINGLE TIME a member of his species turns out to have survived he drops the 'I'm the last of the Time Lords, I'm so lonely' stuff and looks absolutely horrified.

But if Romana HAD remained safe(ish) in E-Space, SURELY the Doctor would have nipped back there to find her?

Isn't E-space another dimension, as in sealed-off-forever dimension?

though admittedly EVERY SINGLE TIME a member of his species turns out to have survived he drops the 'I'm the last of the Time Lords, I'm so lonely' stuff and looks absolutely horrified

Hilarious, and so true!

Isn't E-space another dimension, as in sealed-off-forever dimension?

Well, it is accessable through CVE's. However, they are not easy to find. The Doctor pointed that out to Adric at the beginning of Earthshock, when Adders was bleating that nobody liked him and he wanted to go home.

And since Romana is a Time Lady her survival wouldn't negate the whining of the Doctor that he is the last of the Time Lords. ;-)

Ah, yes, that is true

Do CVEs still exist?

As far as I know, as I said, they're just hard to find.

Unless the CVEs were destroyed in the Time War? Or the Logopolitans?

The whole point of "Logopolis" was the Doctor and the Master permanently opening a CVE in order to stave off the heat death of the Universe. Since this was done without the assistance of the Time Lords, I have to assume the CVE is still in operation.

So it is possible for the Doctor to go through it and try to find Romana.

Certainly it is. And it took Adders half an hour - maximum - to plot a course, so the Doc shouldn't have any problem.

Re: Do CVE's exist...?
Well, as the experimental equations provided by the Monitor, to the Doctor during Logopolis, were to make the CVE produced by them, "self sustaining" so to speak, then by defination, that CVE still exists...
As to if any others exist, the "Non Canon" Companion Chronicle, The Invasion of E-Space, set in Season 18, during the E-Space Trilogy, depicts a CVE being artificially generated, by a species of "Techno-Barbarians", which intend using the CVE to pillage E-Space, from N-Space...
So the technology to generate said CVE's may not have been exclusive to the Logopoliians, just that, they had a way to safely do so...

The Invasion of E-Space, set in Season 18, during the E-Space Trilogy, depicts a CVE being artificially generated, by a species of "Techno-Barbarians", which intend using the CVE to pillage E-Space, from N-Space...

Huh. So the Time Lords (and even the Doctor, despite going to Logopolis) never even NOTICED the EXISTENCE of the CVEs that were sustaining the universe long beyond its natural span (Eureka! I've just realised why it's 100 trillion years old in Utopia! Because the Doctor and the Master were MUCH more successful than they expected when they permanently opened that CVE in Logopolis)...BUT any old bunch of tehcno-barbarians can create their own CVE? (Why do they bother, anyway? Isn't there a lot more pillaging they can do in N-Space? It's bigger.)

JOHN F KENNEDY in Romana I section:

With Romana II you never forget that Lalla Is Acting. It's ghastly.

We REALLY don't have similar tastes, do we. TomDoc, Romana II and K9 were my Dream Team until Eccy n'Rose turned up (and then Eccy, Rose n'Captain Jack. And then Tennant n'Rose. And then Tennant n'Donna. I have a LOT of Dream Teams these days).

I'm not convinced she actually WAS acting. On-screen she's an aristocrat who's wild about Tom. And in this 'real life' thing...she's an aristocrat who's wild about Tom.

Now there's a fanfiction crossover just itching to be written... the Honourable Sarah "Lalla" Ward vs. the Honourable Angela Favorleigh from Enid Blyton's St Clare's series.

Yesterday, I learned that Lalla Ward is currently married to Richard Dawkins. For some reason, that innocuous bit of info brightened my day immensely.

Yeah, fantastic isn't it, though honestly, one COULD get jealous that she snapped up BOTH the country's most eligible men.

Lalla Ward re THAT City of Death costume: 'I thought it would be fun to wear something little girls probably hated wearing. I got loads of letters saying, "I don't mind wearing my school uniform any more." I didn't bank on the fact I'd also get loads of letters from their fathers... it simply hadn't crossed my mind that school uniform was a kind of turn-on for some people' - oh happy, happy innocent days...

Richard Dawkins and Lalla Ward are divorcing after 24 years of marriage.

I'm not all that sold as Romana as a companion personally. Fine performances, but as an audience surrogate (which is generally the role of the companions) she's not that useful. She's as smart and generally as competent as the Doctor. So... As an occasional foil, sure. But as a companion, meh.

A mention would be enough for me. But I would rather Doctor Who create new things rather than recycling.

A final thought: I'd rather have Romana than the ••••••• Rani.

I'm not all that sold as Romana as a companion personally. Fine performances, but as an audience surrogate (which is generally the role of the companions) she's not that useful.

Surely the fact that Romana II was blatantly obviously the Best Companion Ever (until bloody RTG started creating Roses, Donnas, Captain Jacks and Wilfs right, left and centre) proves that the idea the Companion exists for the Doctor to explain the plot to is simply WRONG?

Wonder what's Lalla's reaction to this:
http://thedoctorwhocompanion.com/2020/05/22/bms-2020-doctor-who-figurines-include-unit-classic-daleks-and-second-doctors-tardis-sets/?fbclid=IwAR0VAkq7hpWVuYtOgt0h5RD66xD_sG1gBSegcI3-TeoEPI0zm62DAMQLpqw

Full Circle:

'The Time Lords want me back' - well they sure as hell wouldn't if they'd listened to the Gallifrey audios. (Which they WOULD have been able to do if that stupid Matrix worked properly.)

Why is the top half of Romana's hair a different colour to the bottom half?

'Sounds like a type D oligarchy. Typical use of propaganda' - SO CUTE! Romana doesn't realise that democracies do propaganda too! (Also, she displayed a totally rubbish grasp of propaganda when SHE was running the Time Lord oligarchy in the Gallifrey audios so I don't know why she's trying to pretend she's such an expert.)

'That would mean that we're out of real space altogether!' - E-Space is perfectly real you...racist? Spaceist? - don't start pretending it isn't just because it doesn't happen to be your home universe.

'It's a very nasty thought' - why? What's so dreadful about exploring an entire new universe in your space-time-ship with the greatest of Doctors at your side and your faithful dog at your heels and the wind blowing in your hair? When the alternative is being stuck on a planet of dusty chauvinists against your will?

It's beyond Romana's comprehension that some races might heal really fast? Even though judging by recent audios (The Gulf, Day of the Comet) so do Time Lords?

'Oh, he can be repaired. In fact, we always seem to be repairing him' - Jeez, if I get decapitated remind my nearest and dearest to at least PRETEND to care...

Boy, Romana changes her 'They're only spiders' tune pretty fast.

Romana never knows that Adric only rushed into the TARDIS to scream 'What are you doing open the door' rather than to betray and abandon her and take off - yet she never mentions it, unlike, say, his little fling with those vampires...

'Oh, he can be repaired. In fact, we always seem to be repairing him' - Jeez, if I get decapitated remind my nearest and dearest to at least PRETEND to care...

But YOU can't be repared if decapitated. For K9, it's no worse than a fleshwound.

Well, obviously I CAN be repaired. Hindle was wrong when he screamed 'You can't mend PEOPLE!', just look at Nardole...

And if K9 has a genuine personality - and of course he DOES - I'm sure these constant traumas would be BAD for his mental health.

Well, obviously I CAN be repaired.

If you're decapitated!?

Yeah, like I said, just look at Nardole...

I mean, obviously the Doctor would have to turn up at exactly the right moment but if s/he's happy to visit DAVROS on his deathbed...

I'm now imagining Emily in Futurama's 30th century, her head in a jar in the room with the heads of every actor who played the Doctor also in jars... and Tom is still the actor who played the part the longest. ;-)

Romanadvoratrelundar = "romana divora tre lune" = "roman devours three moons". (Must be Earth's moon and the two moons of Gallifrey.)

Now, is there a Romanadivoratresoli?

The origin of this same might have a simpler explanation.

Ramona is an actual name. They just switched the a and the o around, and bingo-bongo: Romana

They could have thought about "Ramona\Ramon" as in the variant of Raymond. Just like:

Leela - not Leila
Adric - not Dirac
Jackson - not Jason (but it's also coincidentally Ben's, Flip's, and Maria's surname)
Tala - not Atalanta
so
Romanadvoratrelundar - not Raymond.

But Romana is also an actual name meaning Rome. (or well, Roman.) Like how "Nyssa" is\was the name of several places in Anatolia\Turkey.