Moderator's Note: This is Mike's original UNIT summary:
With very few exceptions, UNIT always seemed to me to exist only to provide cannon fodder for invading aliens. I don't understand why it took until "Battlefield" for UNIT to start manufacturing special weapons for defense against aliens.
What really brought the UNIT stories down was season 9, and the constant reappearence of the Master. Everytime UNIT got involved in something, the Master was there. What an amazing coincidence.....
UNIT`s a companion? Hmm...
It's just a convenient way to discuss the group that doesn't include the Brig, Mike and Benton.
Trouble is, UNIT practically consisted of the Brig, Mike and Benton. I suppose there's always Corporal Bell. And Colonel Crighton. If we get really desperate.
And I suppose this would be the section to launch my long-awaited defence of Brigadier Winnifred Bambera, but having given it a lot of thought, I still can't work out why I like her, apart from the obvious sexist and racist reasons. I certainly don't know why anyone who's spent more than 5 minutes as head of the British section of UNIT would be in ignorance of the Doctor's existence. Hasn't she read any reports? Were they censored? That would be a bit tricky. 'The Nestine consciousness dropped dead of exhaustion after taking over England...the Axons saw the error of their ways and voluntarily left Earth at the last minute...the Sea Devils' underwater base spontaneously exploded...Scientific advisor? What scientific advisor?'
Sounds like the headlines on the 9 o'clock News: "Today in London, a large creature was not seen swimming up the Thames. No one was threatened by this lack of monster, as it departed right away, even though it wasn't really there. Representatives from UNIT, a top secret organization, were quick to confirm that nothing had happened, although they denied any knowledge of the event."
I think a lot of writer's didn't know what UNIT was, what it was supposed to do, or who it was supposed to take orders from.
I believe UNIT means United Nations Intelligence Taskforce and it was created to deal with extraterrestial threats to Earth, but in some episodes it seems like UNIT is just doing a job that could be done by the regular army or police.
UNIT is a top secret organization that no one is supposed to know about. So why do they have that big UNIT logo emblazoned on everything?
If UNIT is under United Nations authority then why can the British soldiers in UNIT be ordered about by members of the regular British Army? Wouldn't all British soldiers assigned to UNIT be answerable only to UNIT higher ups, at least for as long as their assignment lasts?
And if no one`s supposed to know about it, why is it that several characters in the Pertwee era seem to have heard of them? I can`t think of any off the top of my head, but I know that there have been some.
'Shoot the winged man with five quick bullets.' Just thought anyone who hasn't read So Vile A Sin (i.e. everyone) would like to know that the Brigadier's immortal line survives into the Thirtieth Century. As does UNIT, even though it's reduced to holding charity do's and arguing about whether Lethbridge-Stewart is hyphenated.
I would like to know - given that UNIT was such a low priority for Governments even when aliens invaded every other week - how it survives the next thousand years when, from at least the 26th century, it's Earth invading the galaxy rather than vice-versa.
Isn't it "five rounds rapid"?
Yes, 'Chap with the wings there, five rounds rapid' was the original, but the version in a thousand years time is a translation from English, which is seen as a dialect of Old American. Huh.
UNIT didn't survive as such did it? Sometime in the early 21st century (circa 2010??), it gets replaced by UNISYC.
Given the nature of the United Nations Intelligence Taskforce, it would eventually be incorporated into the regular military of the future world government. Several stories imply that there are no longer any nation states (Frontier in Space and The Enemy of the World come to mind, though the latter seems to be more the beginnings of a world state)
However, there is no reason that UNIT couldn't have evolved into an organization called UPIT (United Planets Intelligence Taskforce).
Emily, for good or bad the United States is the dominant power at the beginning of space exploration. Comparable with Spain at the height of power back in the late 15th and early 16th centuries. Now most of the "New World" speak Spanish. However, it is more likely the future English will be flavoured with a lot of other cultures as it becomes the language of choice in the world. Our language is so good at stealing other language's words, as well as inventing new ones, I suspect we would not be able to understand a lot of it if we went into the far future.
However, one could make the case that since Klingon is more popular as a second tongue than Esperanto these days, it could become lingua franca of the future.
I am not exactly thrilled at that thought.
A notable French minister has already admitted his language will probably be eroded within a century or two. Serves it right for being so clunky, unimaginative and convoluted...
Just look at Frenchman Jean-Luc Picard on Star Trek: The Next Generation. ;-)
Argh! Don't get me started on the French. They are the reason English is such a lousy language when it comes to spelling. Everytime you come across an unpronouced vowel or consonant, or syllables such as -tion or -ough you can blame on the French. They messed not only our language but others such as Vietnamese, where Nguyen is pronounced "guen". At least we got rid of all those silly accent marks.
Okay, my little rant is over. I think I'll have a little lie down, now.
Getting rid of those accent marks is causing people to mispronounce words - as in glace cherries. Glace is supposed to be said glass-ay, but people are not just saying glayse.
I meant now, not "not".
Actually, the last time I saw those, the label said 'glazed' cherries. I guess the spelling evolved. But Americans spell a lot of things differently from those other English speaking countries.
Edje, UNISYC wasn't a replacement so much as a sister organisation for UNIT. UNIT was definitely mentioned as such in Cold Fusion and So Vile A Sin.
Sorry- got the impression from Alien Bodies that it was.
I suppose this could be one of those times when Virgin says one thing and the BBC goes off and says something completely different, out of spite/apathy/belief in bottle universes, etc. I'm trying to remember what exactly Alien Bodies did say about UNISYC - apart from it having mad officers and a rather silly book on aliens.
Did anyone other than the Brig, Benton, Yates and Jo from UNIT make a return appearance?
Corporal Bell (TV only). Brig. Bamberra was in a few NAs. And let's not forget everyone's favorite goofy-named UNIT member, Hamlet McBeth.
Which stories were Corporal Bell in?
Mike, it's Hamlet *Macbeth*. That's the point!
Sorry, misspelled. I knew what the point was; I still think it's goofy.
Corporal Bell--it seems I was mislead by some comments in "Face of the Enemy." I take back that comment.
no, Bell was in 'Claws of Axos' *and* 'Mind of Evil'.
she just didn't do much, that's all.
Made coffee and answered phones from what I could see in The Mind of Evil.
She betrayed UNIT in Face of the Enemy, because her brother was being held hostage. But then another MA/PDA - I _think_ it's Business Unusual, but one Gary Russell is very much like another - referred to the Brigadier as being driven off to his retirement by 'the ever-faithful Corporal Bell.' So don't ask me what's going on.
She was also in Scales of Injustice, where she turned down a promotion to sergeant, for fear of having to leave UNIT. Very touching. Almost as touching as Benton telling the Brig that he really must promote Mike Yates to Captain instead of him, because after all Benton's just a working-class boy who couldn't give orders to the likes of Yates, sir. *Reaches for sick-bag*
Maybe there are two Corporal Bells? It's not an uncommon name.
It would be a bit of a coincidence, even by Doctor Who standards...after all, UNIT consists of only a handful of soldiers.
i dunno, there were three atlantises... :)
Sometimes siblings are in the armed forces together. If it was Corporal Smith, no one would bat an eyelid at the suggestion of there being two.
And nobody has commented on the fact that it was actually season 8 that had the constant reappearances of the Master. The Master was only in 2 season 9 stories, and UNIT had next to nothing to do with one of them.
Well. It's taken FOUR YEARS, but the new series UNIT has FINALLY come into its own. The advent of Torchwood rendered them pretty superfluous - they didn't even get to SPEAK in Aliens of London before they got killed, they barely got a couple of lines in Christmas Invasion before they got killed, they seemed to side with the Master in Last of the Time Lords, they locked poor innocent(ish) Tosh in a tiny cell FOR LIFE (Torchwood: Fragments), they barely had time to say 'Ladies and gentlemen, we are at war!' before they got killed in Stolen Earth, they planted nukes all round our planet's crust and were prepared to use 'em (Stolen Earth)...they were, admittedly, vaguely useful at handing Donna glasses of water in Turn Left...But as for Sontaran Stratagem/Poison Sky...they recruited boring old Martha, they were practically SPAT on by the Doctor as gun-happy morons, they were massacred by the dozen, they treated workers like scum, they STUPIDLY laughed at Sontarans, they screamed for the Doctor's aid over SATNAV, the only remotely sympathetic character got slaughtered (alas poor Ross)...
...In short, UNIT wasn't much cop. But, at long last, Planet of the Dead has given us Malcolm, the most adorable non-regular since Duggan himself. And it's given us the HIGHLY interesting Captain Magumbo...personally I don't belive for a minute that ANYONE who'd read the files would have deliberately murdered the Doctor in that situation. Any saving of the Earth would, by definition, have been short-lived without our Time Lord Protector. (And blowing Malcolm's brains out wouldn't have helped any, in this regard.) And there was absolutely nothing in the Doc's history that suggests he WOULDN'T be able to get the bus through in plenty of time to close the Wormhole BEFORE anything else emerged. And Magumbo didn't even know there was a planet-destroying Swarm around, she merely knew there was some sort of threat. And, let's face it, she knew THAT from the moment it was announced the Doctor was on the line. ('We all want to meet him one day, but we all know what that day will bring' - ha ha ha!)
I'm worried about what happened to Mace, though. Not THAT worried, admittedly, but at least he managed to stand up to the Doctor...a bit.
Oh, and forgot to mention: UNIT don't even know what they STAND for these days. In more ways than one. Unified Intelligence Taskforce my ****.
Oh, I don't know; UNIT hasn't changed that much. Still prone to fire first and ask questions later. Still trying to blow up alien threats over the Doctor's objections (remember what the Brig did to the Silurians?).
Apart from the name change and that there are so many more of them now, I wouldn't know the difference.
I was just treating myself to the supreme bliss of SJA: Death of the Doctor when for some reason THIS line forcibly attracted my attention...
JO JONES (NEE GRANT): Those soldier boys - ooh - happy days!
What exactly is she IMPLYING, here...?
Emily:JO JONES (NEE GRANT): Those soldier boys - ooh - happy days!
What exactly is she IMPLYING, here...?
You know what she's implying--if you didn't,you wouldn't have asked the question!!
(I guess she wasn't faithful to the Doctor).
I'm worried about what happened to Mace, though.
Sighs of relief all round: Torchwood: Children of Earth said he was in Canada, or something boring and pointless like that.
Oh, I don't know; UNIT hasn't changed that much.
Well, SARAH JANE obviously thinks it has. She's terrified of it getting anywhere near her son, AND she sends a cleaning lady off to UNIT because she's 'Just the kind of agent they need, put them on the right track and the pay will be very good'. Apparently Adriana's affection for aliens completely outweighs her inability to speak good English, not to mention that her desire to give them the benefit of the doubt will get her killed in record time. So UNIT must be SERIOUSLY prejudiced against aliens these days. (However many Silurians it blew up in the Good Old Days, it couldn't afford to look TOO racist in front of its Scientific Advisor, after all.)
And since when has UNIT pay been very good?
Moderator's Note: Moved from the Companions: General Discussion thread on lack of bromance:
I can understand it with the UNIT personnel. There's too much rank gap between Lethbridge Stewart, Yates, and Benton for anything but professional relationships.
No doubt that's true for the PROPER army, but UNIT is DIFFERENT. Not only the incredible stress they're under but also the fact they don't have to maintain strict discipline in front of the men cos there AREN'T any men who won't get exterminated/electrocuted/shot within the next week or two.
Benton disobeyed orders to imprison the Doctor. Malcolm disobyed orders to shut the wormhole. Jo disobeyed orders not to rush off and join the Nuthutch. Yates disobeyed orders to NOT destroy humanity with dinosaurs (alright, maybe not specific orders). Lethbridge-Stewart gave top-secret information to a journalist. Harry went AWOL. Bambera allowed herself to be edged aside by some retired old buffer. The Doctor had blazing public rows with the Brig ALL THE TIME.
In the circumstances, I hardly think anyone would have minded if a Brigadier, a Captain and a Sergeant had actually formed a close, lifelong friendship. Instead of grudgingly getting together for reunions every ten or twenty years to see who was suffering from amnesia and who was selling used cars...
Yates disobeyed orders to NOT destroy humanity with dinosaurs
Technically he wasn't destroying humanity as a large group of humans were supposed to survive Project Golden Age. He was however part of a group that would wipe out the society that he as a soldier was supposed to protect.
Terror of the Autons:
'If that coach moves to a populated area, it'll be impossible to destroy it' - how sweet and adorable of UNIT to care about such things. I THINK what they mean is, 'it'll be impossible to destroy WITHOUT CONSIDERABLE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES'.
ADORE the Doctor's outrage that UNIT hasn't got a scanning molecular analyser in Stores.
Power of Three:
'I've got officers trained in beheading. Also, ravens of death.' Yeah, I like Kate too. Downtime or no Downtime.
If UNIT's so CIVILISED these days, why let dozens of armed men smash their way into a civilian home and point guns in the faces of innocent heroic people in their pants? 'The dogs do love a run-about' hardly constitutes an apology or explanation. And I'm pretty sure good commanders don't refer to their men (NB: were they ALL men and if so, WHY?) as 'dogs'.
Also, doesn't the commander of UNIT have any PICTURES of the Doctors? It's not as if Eleven has been avoiding modern-day England like the plague.
'Science leads, he always told me. Said he'd learned that from an old friend' - I'm sorry, didn't ANOTHER of his old friends, viz, Sarah Jane Smith, ever mention that the scientists bossing the military around on Skaro was a REALLY BAD IDEA?
'They're empty, we're safe, right?' - Jeez, hasn't Kate ever heard of BIOLOGICAL WARFARE or anything?
And none of the UNIT people in the Tower, Kate included, seem trained to do CPR. Or just have the sense to hit the Doctor on the back a few times to get his heart restarted.
Death of the Doctor:
So UNIT are technically and financially able to build a spaceship in days just for a FUNERAL...yet they're too stupid to notice their Colonel is an alien-vulture-loving nutcase who fakes the Doctor's DNA records? And they're also too thick/scared to actually INVESTIGATE a large explosion and fire in their OWN BASE??
Sontaran Stratagem/Poison Sky:
'They're dying to meet you' - Martha to the Doctor, vis-a-vis her UNIT colleagues. In retrospect that's a MUCH more witty comment than I realised.
Given how over-excited the UNIT guys get, here, in Planet of the Dead and in Power of Three, it's even more surprising the UNIT people in the Slitheen briefing room just ignore him.
'It was all a bit more...homespun, back then' - poor darling nostalgic Doctor. NOW it's 'a modern UNIT, for a modern age' - albeit one that (no doubt due to Health and Safety laws) has to call in the Doctor before it can so much as threaten a few factory workers with machine-guns.
The Doctor blithely assumes that UNIT would have checked out ATMOS before it went on sale? (And, what's more...THEY DID!)
Of course, they found nothing so called in an expert...THE DOCTOR! (Because, of course, mysteriously successful anti-pollution devices are SO much more worthy of an Oncoming Storm's attention than, say, a mere tenth of the planet's kiddie-population being kidnapped, or civilisation collapsing due to immortality.) Where's MALCOLM? Where's KATE?
'We get first rights on this, that means promotion' - SERIOUSLY? UNIT soldiers are encouraged to mess around with any alien tech they stumble across, and if it doesn't kill 'em they get another stripe?
And can they please stop proclaiming an 'Absolute Emergency!!' every time they so much as encounter a pool of green goo?
So Martha's working from inside UNIT to make it better? She's got a cheek. And she obviously fails and departs - whereas Kate sweeps in and drags it kicking and screaming towards a happier, brighter, more friendly and scientific future...well, give or take hordes of gun-toting maniacs bursting into the Pond home.
UNIT don't even have the power to keep suspicious tech out of their own cars unless they can prove its evil alien tech?!
DANNY21 in Original Series: Season Twenty-Six: Battlefield: UNIT gets their Mojo back at last :-).
I'd say this is where UNIT gets their Mojo in the FIRST place. It was probably having that Doctor around to save the day every time that weakened them in the 70s, or was it the 80s.
Barbarella was in 'Battlefield'?
I think Danny meant BAMBERA.
Well just imagine Bambera in the Excessive Machine...
UNIT had their Mojo in their very first ep The Invasion. They defeat the Cybermen. Largely because instead of doing what they normally do and just keep shooting at them hey have the sense to throw grenades and use bazookas. In fact they barely need the doc, they defeat almost the entire invasion themselves. If the Cybermen didn't have any brain washing tech they'd have had no chance.
Yes I did mean Bambera lol
UNIT had their Mojo in their very first ep The Invasion. They defeat the Cybermen.
I thought Zoe did that, while UNIT stood there making patronising sexist remarks.
Zoe kicking the "she's much prettier than a computer" guy in the testicles would have been fun.
Or, at the very least, NOT giggling along as if it was a lovely compliment. (But then, this IS the woman who responded to a threatened spanking from Jamie with the words 'This IS going to be fun!')
She was born in the 21st century, when worldviews entirely formed by '50 Shades of Grey' come as standard.
Day of the Doctor:
Kate turns up in public absolutely surrounded by men with big guns. Where the hell do they get to when they'd actually come in useful? Like, when she's marching into the Black Vault to confront the Zygon invaders? When she says 'Don't worry, we're not armed' and attempts to blow up London, plus herself and the two colleagues she's dragged in there to die with her for no readily apparent reason?
Why is the (Eleventh!) Doctor saying 'I work for [UNIT]' as if it's STILL a regular job?
Why does Osgood not just get herself n'colleague OUTTA the Under-Gallery on some excuse or other instead of basically telling the Zygons she's onto them?
'The Doctor will save me the Doctor will save me' - hasn't she seen the UNIT death-lists? Has she never wondered what happened to poor dear Malcolm?
'Codename Cromer' - bless! Though would the Brig, when writing his Three Docs report, REALLY immortalise his own near-insane levels of stupidity?
Honestly, if UNIT care so much about symbols of British/monarchical power to actually bother with ROBOT RAVENS (presumably to stop everyone noticing that the real ravens have scarpered, which superstition decrees means that the Kingdom will fall), hasn't it occurred to them what NUKING THE TOWER OF LONDON will do, symbolically/politically/radioactively speaking?
'With so many decades having passed since UNIT's creation, and the world being a very different place, the real United Nations is now, quite rightly, unhappy about the U.N. part. So if we ever want to use UNIT, then we can state the acronym, but not its full form!' - RTG in a 2006 DWM.
WHY were they unhappy?
WHY did RTG grovellingly say they were RIGHT to be unhappy?
WHY did he take the BLINDEST BIT OF NOTICE of their pathetic unhappiness?
Why did RTG knuckle under to that incompetent bunch of dolts?
He must respect...well, He can hardly respect what they're DOING (or failing to do) but He probably respects their, um, principles. Or something.
The UN ARE quite a lot more powerful in the Whoniverse, what with confiscating Britain's nuclear codes and all (whilst simultaneously placing nukes under the Earth's crust to blow us all to Kingdom Come the moment the Doc's five minutes late for an alien invasion, the HYPOCRITICAL CRETINS.)
And come to think of it, who would that 'Unified Intelligence Taskforce' nonsense have fooled, anyway? Surely even the sort of people who DON'T WATCH OLD WHO (if such perverts exist) would have worked out which organisation must have been behind this multi-national force...?
Why did RTG knuckle under to that incompetent bunch of dolts?
Well, they could sue him for copyright infringement, for starters.
Those dolts can't even agree on the time of day, let alone file a lawsuit.
The UN is okay when it comes to charity and humanitarian things (UNICEF).
However, as a political force, they are as powerful as a toothless old tiger. They're a failed idea of an earlier generation. Look at the permanent members of the Security Council, for example. Why are they permanent? Because they were the victors of a war that ended almost seventy years ago! Needless to say, the world has long since moved on, the UN hasn't.
RTD had nothing to fear from them.
Francois - Well, they could sue him for copyright infringement, for starters.
No. Trademark infringement, possibly, but you cannot copyright a title or name.
Oh yes, hmmmmm, oops! That's what I meant, of course.
OK, so WHICH gibbering maniac TARDIS-proofed the Tower of London anyway? It can't be the Brig - he didn't have the tech, he didn't have the Tower as a base, AND he knew that Doctor Knows Best. It can't have been Creighton - he's just a pathetic place-holder. It can't have been Bambera - she hadn't even HEARD of the Doc until he made a favourable impression in Battlefield. It can't have been Mace - he's the kind of wimp who can't even terrorise a few immigrants without summoning the Doctor across space and time to hold his hand. It can't have been Magambo - she'd've had to get Malcolm to do it for her and he'd've DIED first.
So...was it Kate? She's certainly insane enough. WHAT did Daddy tell her as a little girl that made her such a Doctor-hating, London-nuking nutcase?
WHAT did Daddy tell her as a little girl that made her such a Doctor-hating, London-nuking nutcase?
"He once forcibly took me to a place that looked like Cromer so there are are no levels to which the Doctor will not stoop".
I don't like this Cromer! Can you take me back to Omega's Cromer?
Possibly even CROMER isn't crime enough to inspire a little girl to nuke London.
Could've been something to do with those Silurians I suppose.
'Today, Katie darling, I blew some mother******* aliens to Kingdom Come! Even though THAT DOCTOR PERSON was REALLY HORRIBLE to me about it! Just remember: ALWAYS blow the mother******* aliens to Kingdom Come and always ignore everything that wishy-washy liberal-lefty alien-sympathiser has to say on the matter...'
STILL doesn't explain why Kate didn't march into that Black Archive and five-rounds-rapid the Zygon gits the way DADDY would have instead of going for the far more drastic AND STUPID option. Doesn't explain how he instilled the 'science leads' principle in her either...
How old is Kate? How old was she when the Brigadier was helping Pertwee? It affects what she might have heard from her father.
Kate should be about the same age as her actress, who was born in 1965, and now we run into the UNIT dating tangle.
If the Unit era takes place in the early 70s, this means the Brigadier had a young daughter he never mentioned. If it's in the early 80s, Kate would have been in her late teens, but probably still living with the Brigadier.
Which is more plausible?
And then there's the Brigadier's five years of amnesia, which was pretty definitely between 1977 and 1983. If Kate was born in 1965, this was while she was between 12 and 18, and could have had quite an impact on her, especially if his amnesia meant he forgot he had a daughter.
Of course, Kate wasn't necessarily born in 65 just because her actress was, but she does need to have been born around then, unless she's ageing oddly. She doesn't really look old enough to have been born in 1955, or young enough to have been born in 1975.
Invasion of the Dinosaurs:
Waiting for this mysterious scientific advisor of yours to turn up' - ahhh, at last, the perfect mission statement for UNIT. They should have it engraved on their headed notepaper and the signs outside their top-secret HQs.
Why is General Finch in charge of the overall operation? How can DINOSAURS ROAMING CENTRAL LONDON possibly not come under UNIT's remit?
Love the subtly sarcastic way the Doctor suggests that UNIT SHOULD be able to deal with a creature with a brain the size of a walnut...
'Dismissed.' 'Sir?' 'Get out!' - Finch to UNIT soldier. OK, maybe they CAN'T cope with a creature with a brain the size of a walnut if they don't even know what 'Dismissed' means...
Osgood is one of the few people I'd turn lesbian for.
Is there an Ingrid Oliver fan club?
Well, I wouldn't turn lesbian for her, but of all the people who appeared on-screen, she's probably the one most like me. Total fangirl. (Also rather cowardly and physically useless but has got a brain. And did I mention her utter unconditional adoration of Himself? The woman has taste. And even managed to say with a bow tie what Malcolm said in a considerably less dignified way by hurling himself at the Doctor, clutching his legs and sobbing 'I love you'.)
And at least, UNLIKE ME, the Doctor offered Osgood the whole of space and time so she died happy. (Of course, she probably wouldn't have died AT ALL if he hadn't. NOT sensible to offer to whizz round the universe with ANOTHER WOMAN right in front of a Master who's been going to considerable lengths to get a bit of attention from him.)
(Admittedly when the Doctor DID decide to spend the rest of his lives in the TARDIS with the Master, the Master promptly topped himself, but that was when he was a MAN.)
As 'Peep Show' viewers know, not only is Osgood not a lesbian, she's also Duggan's daughter.
Don't be silly. She's OBVIOUSLY Osgood-from-Daemons' daughter. If there's ANYTHING in survival-of-the-fittest theories Duggan can't possibly have reproduced.
and Duggan would hit his daughter all the time - he has to hit something....
Darling Duggan would NEVER hit a woman!
Well, apart from the Countess Scarlioni, of course, and admittedly she WAS the only woman he actually MET apart from Romana, but...
...Um...
...Look, she had a gun and several seconds in which to fire as he rushed towards her in plain sight waving a Ming vase. If she's too stupid to shoot it's TOTALLY not his fault.
I'd love to see a future Doctor take Duggan's form... and a bit of his personality.
I think Capaldi's GOT a bit of his personality. Only he throws around words instead of punches and also is considerably smarter than Duggan (well, who isn't). 'Hello barely sentient local' packs as much pre-judgement and contempt as just biffing someone on the nose.
Death in Heaven:
'Divorcee, mother of two, keen gardener, outstanding bridge player, Chief Scientific Advisor, Unified Intelligence Taskforce...' - WONDERFUL entrance. Especially when you're casually carrying a Cyberhead. NONE of the male leaders of UNIT would ever introduce themselves in such style. Admittedly this is partially because none of the male leaders of UNIT would define themselves by their marital status.
'Haircut?' - what a FANTASTICALLY laid-back reaction to discovering that baby-faced Boy Tie Boy had turned into PETER CAPALDI...(Ditto for Osgood's 'I though she might be the Master regenerated into female form...') Of course, the Brig always WAS surprisingly accepting of the fact Our Hero could change his face.
Why shoot the Master when the Doctor's in the middle of getting vital information out of her? And then WHY SHOOT THE DOCTOR you cretins? 'Your co-operation is to be ensured and your unreliability assumed' - is NOT unreliable! Hasn't tried to leave you in the lurch in the middle of an alien invasion since SPEARHEAD FROM SPACE you ungrateful cretins! (He was BLUFFING in Claws of Axos! DUH!) And has there ever, EVER been an occasion when drugging/handcuffing/kidnapping the Doctor has ensured his CO-OPERATION rather than his pretending-to-co-operate-whilst-undermining-your-entire-civilisation?
'You think your father would have done this?' 'We both absolutely know he absolutely would' - I don't know that. In fact...I'm •••• sure he WOULDN'T.
'Your assistant?' 'My friend' - ahhhh, the difference between the 1970s and the 2010s. In a nutshell.
UNIT don't think to SEARCH the Master and TAKE AWAY HER MAGIC BRACELET...?
And then they JUST STAND THERE as the Master frees herself and murders Osgood?
Well, I suppose it beats Last of the Time Lords, where they're actually SERVING the Master...
none of the male leaders of UNIT would define themselves by their marital status.
It was all "don't ask, don't tell" back in those days.
didn't a book try to claim that the failed League of Nations had a UNIT equivalent and that's why UNIT HQ is in Geneva?
I wouldn't be at all surprised, UNIT-equivalents proliferate in the books and audios.
Hmm. Do you mean the Forge? Can't remember WHAT their justification for existing was.
The Invasion:
'My chaps have to be a bit melodramatic in their methods' - they HAVE to? Why? And...ALL the time?
UNIT can manage to offer the Doctor tea - but not coffee?
What's with this Captain Jimmy Turner creature? Why is he trying to shoehorn his way into our UNIT Family?
Jimmy's gun runs out of bullets after about two shots. Guess that's why he doesn't made it to the colour era.
'Calling Sector 5 chopper' - UNIT have choppers all over the capital? By Daemons they only seem to have the one. The Brigadier's own personal one that Mike n'Benton go joyriding in.
'If you go to Central Command with this story they'll think you're mad...' 'The people I'm trying to convince are a little more sceptical...' - UNIT HQ don't believe in aliens...??
Come to think of it, why IS UNIT such an international organisation? Britain's the only place that gets invaded by aliens every week, Britain should set up its own •••• taskforce, with more than five people, with no flying-off-to-Geneva-or-Peru at the drop of a hat, AND with no oily-civil-servants, corrupt-politicians or controlled-by-aliens regular-army superiors to foil them.
'I'll get in touch with my photographic unit and get them on to it' - UNIT has a photographic unit?!
'Perhaps we can find a lab for you to work in' - UNIT doesn't even have a lab?! (And they obviously didn't even think of getting themselves a SCIENTIST to work in a LAB either until the colour era god-knows-how-long afterwards!)
'Get the body up' - yeah, give a CORPSE priority over Jamie why don't you!
UNIT have a full assault platoon of at least thirty armed men?!
I miss Torchwood. Its 'Let's all have sex' attitude towards the end of the world is slightly more exciting than sitting in silence while Benton knocks a cup over.
Unite with UNIT and Save The World!
Wasn't Lieu. Carstairs relative, Lethbridge-Stewart's successor in The Five Doctors?
It was the 'pretty unpromising' Colonel Crichton. (Still, fair play to him, he obviously managed to save Earth from alien invasions without any help from the Doctor, not to mention being rather better at keeping 'em secret than any of his successors or predecessor. I have the sneaking suspicion that THERE WEREN'T ANY, which does tend to suggest that the Doctor's presence was to blame for making Earth an alien-magnet in the '70s (or was it the '80s).)
Now you mention it they DO seem to have both been played by a David Savile, not that I ever spotted any resemblance.
I just watched the first Avengers movie today. SHIELD had this huge flying aircraft carrier. I couldn't help but be reminded of the Valiant.
I wonder if the Valiant was the inspiration for Joss Whedon (who directed the Avengers) to come up with that flying carrier?
Such ships have been seen in quite a few stories. Spectrum's headquarters is one in Captain Scarlet, Commander Francesca Cook commands one in the movie Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, and Halcyon Renard in the animated series Gargoyles used one as his corporate headquarters, to name just a few. It would be hard to say who inspired who in this context.
I wonder if the Valiant was the inspiration for Joss Whedon (who directed the Avengers) to come up with that flying carrier?
While it would only be fair play for Whedon to have ripped off Russell T. Davies for a change, SHIELD have apparently been using stuff like this since 1965 in the comics.
Strange Tales #135 (August 1965) designed by Jack Kirby.
a fight between Osgood and Clara...
Ossie vs. Ozzie - who would win?
THEORETICALLY Osgood, what with her being a member of a paramilitary organisation and Clara being a schoolteacher, but then there are a number of other factors to take into account, like Osgood being an asthmatic dead wimp and Clara being a part-time Dalek...
...Fiver on Ozzie to win. EVEN IF Ossie's a Zygon at the time. Anyone who can slap the Twelfth Doctor round the face is NOT to be messed with.
Come to think of it, do Kate Lethbridge-Stewart's two kids (Death in Heaven) live with her or their divorced father? Cos if they live IN LONDON it makes her decision to nuke the place rather than just shoot the couple of Zygons in the Black Archive even MORE...inexplicable.
Perhaps they don't live in London then.
They would still have to live a fair distance away because radioactive fallout does travel over large distances.
they presumably live in that undefined part of England that other tv shows also use when they don't specify where their departing characters are going to.
Oh, maybe Kate just wants rid of the irritating little rug-rats. It's not as if SHE was reared in a healthy, happy household with two happily married parents who doted on their little girl and TOOK HER TO MEET THE DOCTOR!!!! Maybe she has attachment issues.
Maybe they live out to the west of London - the prevailing winds would tend to take any fallout out over Essex and the North Sea.
Or the device itself could be very clean and produces minimal fallout with a short half life.
And going back to the Valiant/Helicarrier/Cloudbase discussion of a month ago, the SHIELD Helicarrier's probably the primary example, although Cloudbase in Captain Scarlet would have been designed no later than 1967, and could have been coincident with the Helicarrier (depending on whether Gerry Anderson and his designers were aware of that particular comic issue, and exactly when they were coming up with the ideas for the series).
Although the Helicarrier itself is really just an advancement of the real work that was done with airships (like the US Navy's Akron and Macon) and some WW2-era aircraft (like the Soviet TB-3) carrying fighters.
Magician's Apprentice:
OK, when did UNIT basically become so obsolete they're taking orders from a schoolteacher?
'No, don't send a helicopter, think it through' - seriously, guys, ALL THE PLANES ARE FROZEN IN THE SKY! How could you not have thought this through? (Or, of course, if you'd already confirmed that helicopters are fine, why not TELL Clara that?)
Kate: 'That's a lot of passengers.' Clara: 'That's a lot of fuel.' Kate: 'Oh dear god.' - interesting. That the woman who tried to nuke London for no readily apparent reason is so fixated by a few hundred civilian lives at the expense of the bigger picture.
'Pardon my sci-fi' - yeah, I don't know who the hell this REALLY ANNOYING woman is and I don't care. We need Osgood back. RIGHT NOW. Zygon or no Zygon.
You know how they cast a lot of the actors of the old characters for the 50th anniversary docu-drama?
I think it would be cool to see a Brigadier and UNIT series. Maybe start it with the Troughton Yeti story as the pilot. Then, in the first season, show how UNIT gets formed and staffed out, leading up to the events from "Spearhead from Space." And then do basically all the Pertwee stories, only from the Brigadier's perspective with The Doctor as the supporting character. You could even do some stories without The Doctor and go all the way up to Seeds of Doom and such and then have the show go on without The Doctor and eventually see how UNIT becomes the UNIT we see in the revived series.
You know how they cast a lot of the actors of the old characters for the 50th anniversary docu-drama?
Yeah, and I'm still trying to recover from the 'Troughton'...abomination.
I doubt UNIT are strong enough to carry a series on their own (I've heard the UNIT audios, after all), especially just a rehash of classic stories (and in between the classic stories, what? Lots of cocoa-making?) and most especially without Nicholas Courtney. Well, maybe one episode as a Doctor-Lite story, whizzing through the decades...once they've got the technology to FAKE a young Brig.
For the moment I'm rooting for a Paternoster spin-off instead.
Don't underestimate it, Emily.
Yeah, probably not an ongoing series, but a well-written mini-series could be quite interesting.
Millions of years ago, the Earth was visited by the Cocoas, whose ship crashed and their genetic banks turned to powder. The survivors slept, awakening in the 1960s, discovered that the human race not only mixes those who were to be their future in scorching hot water but consumes them as well.
And, they discover, anyone who drinks this mixture can be controlled...
Revenge of the Coffee Aliens. I like this...
Coffee is aliens.
Planet of the Spiders:
What - the - HELL - is - that...THING?
Did the taxpayer refuse to cough up to replace the PROPER UNIT helicopter destroyed in The Daemons?!
Are such things not INSURED?
Is the future of Planet Earth not at stake?
DANIEL in New Series: Season Nine: Sleep No More:
UNIT only gave up when Kate took over, who inherited none of her fathers can do attitude. "Well nothing ventured Doctor"
Oh, come ON. I may not be Kate's Number One Fan - what with the whole trying-to-nuke-London-AND-selling-out-humanity-to-the-Zygons stuff - but there's nothing as cool - or indeed as can-do - as strolling up to a bunch of Cybermen and chucking down a dismembered Cyber-head at their feet.
Unless it's greeting a newly-regenerated Doctor with the immortal line 'Haircut?'
I'm leaning toward the Osgood survivor being the Zygon, rather than the human - the Zygon would have access to her memories, while having its own personality.
The only thing that gives me pause was the interview with Ingrid Oliver in the little insert. The way she talked about playing the two differently and hoping that people would be able to figure out which was which sounded prospective and not just retrospective.
I'm leaning toward the Osgood survivor being the Zygon, rather than the human
Me too. What self-respecting (or even self-despising) human would go INSANE if its alien duplicate got offed by the Master?
the Zygon would have access to her memories
Not once the real Osgood was dead, surely?
The Web of Fear was OVER 40 years after 1935, The Invasion was four years after that, and Spearhead from Space was months after that. 1977 was "years ago" according to (the novelisation of) The Sea Devils etc.
In 1969/1970 it was widely expected that NASA would put a man on Mars in the early 80's, synthesisers were new and sounded 'futuristic', and it being the pre-Jobs/Wozniak era, the future of the computer would mean faster, more capabilities etc., but bigger.
So, the UNIT stories were taking place a decade or more in the future...in the 1980's, a time when manned missions to Mars would be a reality. Just because the technology in these stories didn't come to pass in the real 80's doesn't mean that it must therefore take place in the 60's! Do we say that 2001: A Space Odyssey must therefore take place in 1968? or that 1984 takes place in 1949?
The Web of Fear was OVER 40 years after 1935
Well, PROFESSOR TRAVERS guesses 'over forty years' but frankly he appears worryingly senile, and VICTORIA claims Abominable Snowmen was 'in 1935' even though there's absolutely no on-screen indication she got told the date.
1977 was "years ago" according to (the novelisation of) The Sea Devils
You can't trust novelisations! Half of 'em are banging on about some 'Doctor Who' and 'Jesus Christ' blokes...
Oh, and for what it's worth, in the Lethbridge-Stewart novel The Schizoid Earth we've got a post-Web Anne Travers exclaiming 'November 1939? But that's impossible, that's nearly thirty years ago.'
And, ultra-helpfully, it's followed by THIS exchange:
'Impossible? Remember we've met someone before - three people, actually - who hadn't aged a day in almost forty years.' 'Almost thirty-five, Father.' 'Is it? Yes, well, even I have my off days.'
The name day in the Slovak calendar for the 30th of May is... Petronela. Here's to Osgood's name day !
DWM on Day of the Doctor: 'The shooting script specifies that the caption should be "UNIT HEADQUARTERS", in the finished episode it's "U.N.I.T THE TOWER OF LONDON", maintaining the convention established in The Invasion that "UNIT" is missing its fourth full point' - what, that's some sort of crazy TRADITION? If they're obsessing about full stops when they SHOULD be saving the world, why aren't they obsessing about the fact they've no right to put a '.' after the 'U' since their stupid name-change?
Draft scene: The Space-Time Telegraph was a '"gift from me to your father, in case he ever needed to get in touch. He left a sort of alarm running in case my goddaughter ever got up to anything unbelievably stupid!" "Your goddaughter??" says Kate. "Yeah, I do kind of owe you a few zoo visits," admits the Eleventh' - !!!
Happy nameday, Osgood!
Moderator's Note: moved from Original Series: Season Nine: Day of the Daleks:
UNIT needed the doc to counteract the sleep field but they defeated the Cybermen solely through conventional means. No deus ex machina no technobabble just rockets, bombs and bullets.
I dunno how conventional Zoe's wiping out of the Cyber-fleet was...
She used Earth missiles deployed in a clever firing pattern, and if everyone hadn't been asleep they would have had more to work with and they wouldn't have needed it. It also wouldn't have mattered if a few ships made landfall as if everyone wasn't asleep the army could have handled them
Huh. That's true...I don't know why I'm so resistant to the idea...maybe because UNIT have always been the Doctor's unloved (by him, not US, obviously) sidekicks, and maybe if they HADN'T acquired that know-it-all Scientific Advisor, they COULD have risen to the occasion and humanity COULD have defended itself during those (considerably fewer had the Doctor not been around) alien invasions...
Yes it was very surprising when I first the Invasion and how well UNIT did the first time. I suppose they had to establish them as a serious ally and it could happen once but if it was every week the Doc had to save the day.
They did ok in that alternate universe without the Doc where he shows up in Hong Kong in 1997 played by David Warner.
Course since the revived series they've become much more competent. Well except for their failure to use grenades in the Sontaran Stratagem.
Didn't they do well.
I suppose they had to establish them as a serious ally
Though it might have helped if that airhead Isobel hadn't had to come up with half the plans for action and, indeed, the actual action.
They did ok in that alternate universe without the Doc where he shows up in Hong Kong in 1997 played by David Warner.
Wasn't Southern England a large radioactive hole, or something?
Course since the revived series they've become much more competent. Well except for their failure to use grenades in the Sontaran Stratagem.
I dunno about competent, they have their moments (Kate throwing down that Cyber-head), but what kind of moron lets a Zygon into their Black Archive, attempts to nuke the whole of London as a result, and then gives a Zygon a job as UNIT's Scientific Advisor?
I think the crater was just in the middle of London, and that was to stop the Silurians or something.
Ok UNIT used to be competent until Kate took over, I'd forgotten about the mess ups she made. Let's hope she goes with the Moffat era.
I think the crater was just in the middle of London, and that was to stop the Silurians or something.
JUST in the middle of London?! London IS Southern England as far as I'm concerned!
Ok UNIT used to be competent until Kate took over, I'd forgotten about the mess ups she made. Let's hope she goes with the Moffat era.
Wasn't Chris Chibnall the one who INTRODUCED her?
Anyway, if you get rid of Kate n'Osgood, EVEN MORE fanboys will be going on strike...plus, I wanna see the reaction of a LOT of old friends to the Doctor's latest regeneration and we may as well start with them. Say what you like about Kate, she was wonderfully deadpan when it came to the Matt-to-Capaldi transformation...('Haircut?')
Maybe Chris did introduce her, still she was competent in her first appearance she wasn't incompetent until Moffat started writing her. Guess he felt he should ruin her to stop her upstaging his own Mary Sues.
Is Osgood that popular? I thought she was a slightly cruel parody of fans. Still I fear she's going anyway. Decks will be cleared and the Zygons have to go.
still she was competent in her first appearance she wasn't incompetent until Moffat started writing her
Nah, Kate's problems were quite glaring from the moment she entirely unnecessarily burst into a civilian home using massive military might, contemptuously referred to her men as 'dogs' in their presence, and then had a mini-breakdown wailing 'I'm lost, Doctor. We all are.' (Though to be fair, it was one HELL of a lot less of a breakdown than her dad had in HIS first adventure.)
Guess he felt he should ruin her to stop her upstaging his own Mary Sues.
Ooh that's unfair, not even River could better Kate's chucking of that Cyber-head...(Sorry, I really must stop going on about that and think of some other moment Kate's awesome in, it's just that nothing is springing to mind...)
Is Osgood that popular? I thought she was a slightly cruel parody of fans.
She is which is why I don't quite get why most of 'em love her so much. Maybe it's just a Pavlovian reaction to that Scarf...
Still I fear she's going anyway. Decks will be cleared and the Zygons have to go.
HOW and WHERE and won't that mean the entire population of London vanishing as the treacherous orange gits replaced 'em...?
(Hope you don't mind, I moved this conversation somewhere considerably more relevant.)
Oh I forgot that, still even that wasn't as stupid as blowing up all London to stop 6 unarmed Zygons rather than just sending some soldiers in. There's bad leadership and total insanity.
Yeah I imagine the cyber head was cool I didn't see that episode, I didn't make it though that season.
Well they seem to have forgotten all of London was replaced as of the next episode so it shouldn't be too much trouble, every alien invasions been forgotten so why not this one?
even that wasn't as stupid as blowing up all London to stop 6 unarmed Zygons rather than just sending some soldiers in
Well, what IS?
(Aside from the moon being an egg, obviously, and even THAT wasn't the moon's IDEA.)
I didn't make it though that season.
Well, bloody well MAKE it through that season! You have nothing better to do with your life for FOUR WHOLE MONTHS!
Well they seem to have forgotten all of London was replaced as of the next episode so it shouldn't be too much trouble, every alien invasions been forgotten so why not this one?
Yeah *sigh* and at least in THIS case we have the excellent excuse of them all looking and behaving exactly like the people they've replaced so we might as well just forget that everyone around us is actually the murderer of that particular friend or neighbour or colleague...(the cats are still real cats, right?)
The Moon being an egg is the night of stupidity except maybe loosing your Christmas slot because you can't be bothered to write it.
Sorry that season was too stupid. And I'm in no hurry to see any more of Clara or Danny Pink.
Yeah millions of Zygons well I'm sure that won't cause any disruption
Sorry that season was too stupid.
Just skip anything involving moon-eggs or trees and you'll be FINE.
And I'm in no hurry to see any more of Clara or Danny Pink.
If you dislike Danny that much, you're in for a treat...
Yeah millions of Zygons well I'm sure that won't cause any disruption
To be fair, most of the disruption is caused when there are still humans around to get suspicious. Once they've replaced EVERY Londoner with a Zygon...hey presto! Problem solved!
Emily in The Invasion thread:
'I come from 1980' - Sarah in Pyramids of Mars. (Well, it's almost a UNIT story. Well, kinda set in UNIT HQ anyway...)
Ah, but what did Sarah mean. If she was talking about the current season, the 13th, then all the preceding seasons happened in the 70's.
If she meant when she first met the Doctor, at the start of The Time Warrior, that meant that all the UNIT stories up to The Green Death happened in the 70's.
So, it seems that, even if you accept Sarah's words here, 90% of the UNIT stories happened in the 70's.
Terrence Dicks was smart when he novelized Pyramids Of Mars. He avoids saying any specific year and just has Sarah asking the Doctor to take her back to her own time.
I know Danny Pink dies but I can't be bothered with their relationship or lack thereof.
From one of the extras on the Day of the Daleks DVD they worked out from all th dates and numbers given that all of the third doctors UNIT adventures take place in the span of one year, so possibly some take place late in 1979 but they seemed to think every one was in 1980. The Invasion is 1979 if memory serves yes no date is given but it is so many years after the yetis which is so many years after the abominable snowman and that one is dated so they were able to pin it down.
You could argue that Sarah had made a small mistake in that she actually wanted to go to 1981/82 as the Tardis was working by the time she joined the doc so she spent some time off Earth and maybe some time skips can be squeezed in then (possibly Sarah hadn't realised or had forgotten this)
In classic Who one season did not necessarily mean one year.
by Inferno the Doctor is buttering up the Brig with "after all the years we've known each other"!
They're probably counting the four or so years that pass between Web of Fear and Invasion too... the Brigadier similarly claims to have known the Doctor for "several years... on and off'" when questioned about it in Ambassadors.
Here we go, the dates are here if you don't want to read the whole thing,
Snowmen 1935
Web of fear: about 1975
Invasion about 1979
Spearheaded onwards late 79/80
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/UNIT_dating_controversy
Bzzzzzt! Thanks for playing, but I'm afraid you don't get the prize. We do have some lovely parting gifts though.
This is the same TARDIS Wiki that acknowledges the Lethbridge-Stewart novels. Said novels place The Web Of Fear in 1969!
Of course, the real reason this happened was because real time caught up with the show. They wanted Nick Courtney back for the 20th Season, but he had gotten older in the years since his last appearance in 1975. They decided not to pretend that this was same era as the Pertwee and early Tom Baker stories because of that.
Perhaps they should have moved Mawdryn forward ten years and set it in 1993 and 1987, but they didn't.
So we have two canonical stories (Pyramids Of Mars and Mawdryn Undead) that give two different dates (nowhere else in the UNIT stories is any specific year mentioned). Which to believe?
So I guess the UNIT dating controversy is not going to go away. That is no doubt why they came up with the running joke about "was it the 70's or the 80's". This is the producers showing the fans that they're in on the joke.
Perhaps they should have moved Mawdryn forward ten years and set it in 1993 and 1987
Oh GOD yeah.
I blame the Queen. Well, I'm a republican, I ALWAYS blame the Queen, but I BET the visuals of a Silver Jubilee were what tipped the decision to choose THOSE stupid years.
Quite apart from reducing our lives to a constant state of UNIT Dating-related confusion, you realise this means the Brig spent TWENTY YEARS teaching at that godawful school (at least according to Downtime, but that ghastly video actually makes sense on this issue (if nothing else) cos it sounds like he's just retired in Battlefield and that's presumably set in the 1990s, if we just ignore that 'King' stuff, otherwise it's set in the 2020s and FIFTY YEARS at Brendon Public School just doesn't bear thinking about.).
Besides, if the Pertwee era was really squeezed into the 1979-80 year, why doesnt Three look a lot more knackered from the constant adventures?
Especially if you count the novels n'audios. And then you've gotta subtract the three months he totally canonically (even if the BBC wisely didn't bother to film it) spent doing nothing but mess around with the dematerialisation circuit before the ham-fisted bun-vendor rushed in...that is one BUSY nine remaining months.
The wiki gets these dats from the Day of the Daleks extra that in turn gets their dates from the episodes themselves. Yes the novels don't match them but since when have the novels matched the TV
I assume Doc 3 was having too much fun to get tired having all those adventures in 3 months. He is an alien after all.
Yep it's all the Beeb's fault for wanting it in a jubilee year and not changing when they couldn't get Ian back. One of the producers knows the fans would notice but was overruled.
This is not the first time that real time caught up with a science fiction show. In the Classic Star Trek episode, Space Seed (the one that introduced Khan Noonien Singh), it was said that Earth was devastated by the Eugenics Wars, from 1992 to 1996. According to Spock, Earth was "on the verges of a dark age, whole populations were being bombed out of existence". Sounds pretty bad, right?
Space Seed was written in 1967, and the 1990's were still a long way off. The writers at that time had no idea that Star Trek would became the huge hit that it eventually did.
Of course, when the real 1990's rolled around, no such war happened. Greg Cox wrote a couple of novels that quietly retconned the Eugenics Wars into a secret war (Khan and Co. were secretly behind all the wars and disasters of the early 1990's). Mr. Cox did a good job, mixing the real 1990's with the Trek one. Yeah, not canon, but it's the best they could do.
Well, the same thing happened to Who, real time caught up with them. The writers of the late 1960's and early 1970's probably weren't thinking that far ahead. For all they knew, but the time 1980 rolled around, Doctor Who would be cancelled and forgotten. However, it wasn't, as we all know.
And, as Nick Courtney had gotten older since he was last on the show, they had to acknowledge that.
However, I must again point out that, from The Web Of Fear, through the Android Invasion, no specific year or decade was mentioned. If any such into was mentioned in the scripts, it was clearly cut out before the episode made it to our screens. And, the only thing that actually counts is what we see on our screen.
Greg Cox wrote a couple of novels that quietly retconned the Eugenics Wars into a secret war
Oh BLESS, all those populations didn't NOTICE themselves being bombed out of existence!
Not that, thanks to THE MOON and THE TREES, I'm exactly in a position to point and laugh at anyone ELSE'S desperate, futile attempts to make things make sense...
as Nick Courtney had gotten older since he was last on the show, they had to acknowledge that
I can't help feeling that if the Who Production Team gave a toss about such matters they'd've dyed Troughton's hair in Two Docs...
Seems Troughton objected. After they dyed it in The Five Doctors, it apparently took ages to come out of his hair.
They could have used a wig. Considering his preferred hairstyle, nobody would have noticed.
Seems Troughton objected. After they dyed it in The Five Doctors, it apparently took ages to come out of his hair.
Oh boo hoo, he should try being one of the Swampies discovering that that green didn't wash off...or Matt and Capaldi needing knee operations after all that running down corridors...and has he never suspected there might be more than one type of hair-dye...or that having the supreme honour of being THE DOCTOR might require SACRIFICES?
They could have used a wig. Considering his preferred hairstyle, nobody would have noticed.
Oh. Yeah.
As I said, it's possible that the 1980's were mentioned in some scripts for the UNIT stories, but that mention got cut out.
However, none of the Target novelizations, that sometimes use early scripts, have any such dates.
In fact, as I said, Terrence Dicks did the opposite when he novelized Pyramids Of Mars. He changed Sarah Jane's dialogue to remove any mention of "1980" and just had her mention "her own time" instead.
In case any of you wonder if Mr. Dicks did this to avoid the UNIT dating stuff, this novel was published in 1979, four years before Mawdryn Undead was made. Looks like Mr. Dicks was ahead of his time here.
Looks like Mr. Dicks was ahead of his time here.
Odd, cos his portrayal of women in his novelisations was relentlessly behind even his sexist times.
can you imagine if Missy was kept on...a Female Doctor, Master, and Kate in charge of UNIT, there would be no blokes left!
Oh, I'm sure we could allow the occasional token male about the place, someone's gotta make the tea, after all...
Yeah I was thinking of the Eugenics wars, thing is in this case there was no need to change it, it wasn't because the real world caught up they just didn't care for one story and that messed up the whole cannon.
Once again I must point out that, aside from Pyramids Of Mars, no specific dates were ever mentioned in the UNIT stories.
And it doesn't matter what was cut from the scripts, or shows up in a DVD extra. The only thing that actually counts is what we see on screen.
Bearing that in mind, Mawdryn Undead could be just as valid as Pyramids Of Mars (which is ironic since neither story actually involves UNIT itself).
And what we see on screen is Snowmen 1935 dated on screen. Web of fear stated to be about 40 years later on screen therefore about about 1975 , Invasion stated on screen to be 4 years after Web of Fear therefore about 1979.
So I'm afraid it's Mawdwyn undead against the world. Also Terror or the Zygons said we had a female PM and we didn't have one in 1972
The female PM isn't Thatcher though.
And what we see on screen is Snowmen 1935 dated on screen
Are we 100% certain of this?
The female PM isn't Thatcher though
Are you sure? Interference does imply that it's Shirley Williams but then its list of British PMs and American Presidents (whilst slightly more logical than the real ones for obvious reasons) isn't borne out by, say, Obama and The Orange One popping up in New Who.
I've not seen the Abominable Snowman but the wiki is pretty sure it's 1935, if the date comes from cut dialogue, trailers, can be guessed, or other sources they say. Nothing about this one.
The female PM may not have been intended to be Thatcher but as I've just been told offscreen stuff isn't canon. I'm sure Thantcher has been named in. Who so it must be her
I've not seen the Abominable Snowman but the wiki is pretty sure it's 1935, if the date comes from cut dialogue, trailers, can be guessed, or other sources they say.
*Shakes head sadly and reproachfully* Not good enough, Sunshine...
I'm sure Thantcher has been named in. Who so it must be her
Yeah, she's leaving her slime-trail all over Who - TV, audios, books and all: Ugg, Thatcher.
Thantcher? Who's Thantcher?
Hang on, as Thatcher appeared in the Ultimate Adventure that surely means she must be the female PM in terror, therefor UNIT is deffo 1980
Not canon, doesn't count.
Nice try, Danny
Once again, someone please lock Daniel Phillips and Matthew See in a soundproof room.
For why UNIT UK, & indeed UNIT as a whole, is currently suspended, perhaps we should look towards the Harmony Shoal Corporation (from The Return of Doctor Mysterio).
We should? Why? I get the feeling those spectacularly-unmemorable villains only took over American UNIT personnel?
quote:I don't know why people don't like the "UNIT Family" concept as coziness is perfect for Saturday teatime.
I never had a problem with the UNIT Family.
I guess some prefer the grittiness of "The Invasion", and Season 7.
The UNIT Family set-up is really, well, not Dad's Army but Brig's Army. You have a Brigadier, a Captain and a Sergeant. That's a very small group to be fighting off alien monsters.
Is it really that different from a captain, a first officer and the ship's doctor doing the same?
No wonder UNIT were such a joke, I’ve just found out that, at least in some episodes, the rifles they used were bolt action Lee Enfield rifles.
These were obsolete and out of service over 20 years before hand.
They also used Bren Guns (barely still in service) and WW1 era Vickers machine guns.
No wonder the universe could stomp all over them.
They started getting better ones later but wow talk about a tight budget.
Normally UNIT could request regular British soldiers when extra personnel was needed, & just a had a skeleton permanent staff. The Auton Invasion (Spearhead from Space novel) explains this, especially as they were having trouble with their Army liaison.
DWM: 'Letts didn't like the uniforms that UNIT inherited from Derrick Sherwin's time, saying, "They looked as if they'd come from Mothercare", and one of the first things he did was to go back to the basic English army uniform with UNIT additions' - bless! And to think a few paragraphs earlier Derrick Sherwin was saying 'It was probably UNIT which saved the show's bacon, because by doing a completely Earthbound season with stock UNIT characters and uniforms, the budget would go much further'...
'A spin-off series entitled The Men From UNIT was once proposed' - gods, I'd completely forgotten about that particular chauvinistic piece of trivia.
With UNIT, the world’s authorities decided to set up an army of specialists to protect Earth‘s security. Each country has its own branch, but all the branches come under the UNIT headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland.
I wonder if Danny is right and Chibbers has dropped UNIT.
Or, if he brings it back, Kate and Osgood will be gone, replaced by characters that Chibbers created.
He'd be asking for trouble if he sacked OSGOOD in favour of some half-baked character of his own.
the main group (whether it's Team TARDIS or the Brig's UNIT) is the only one that is functional. When someone else is brought in they are either incompetent or evil.
In Classic Who, yes, but not Modern Who.
The Discontinuity Guide: Although clearly intended to be set in the near future (Vaughn's collarless shirt and the video phone are nods in this direction), there is nothing else to suggest that The Invasion doesn't take place in the late 1960s. The Brigadier states the Yeti saga The Web of Fear took place 'nearly four years ago', but this is a subjective recollection rather than a precise statement of fact.
quote:
We suggest that this adventure took place in 1966 (shortly after the events of 'The War Machines') and that The Invasion takes place in the Spring of 1969, thus placing Spearhead from Space to Terror of the Zygons in the years 1969 to 1973. Mawdryn Undead states that the Brigadier retired in 1976 Therefore, Sarah Jane's claim to come from 1980 (Pyramids of Mars) cannot be accurate.
The fashions of the UNIT stories, The Invasion apart, are contemporary, although technological advances indicate humanity's [Cyber-aided] progress in this area has been greater than in the real world. Three things in particular date the UNIT stories: pre-decimal currency is in operation in Doctor Who and the Silurians, Mao-Tse Tung is still alive in The Mind of Evil, and there is a 1972 calendar in The Green Death.
and there is a 1972 calendar in The Green Death.
From the TARDIS Wiki entry on the UNIT dating debacle:
Terrance Dicks has said he deliberately avoided giving dates during his time as script editor precisely so he could avoid these sorts of continuity headaches. Consequently, the biggest period of UNIT involvement, the Third Doctor's era, has only comparatively mild contributions to the dating controversy.
Which explains why, when he novelized Pyramids Of Mars, in 1979, he dropped all mention of Sarah Jane being from 1980. Instead he has her ask the Doctor to take her back to "her own time".
The show should have stuck with this policy, IMO.
*Wince* Shouldn't they just.
Though I seem to remember an About Time article on how EVERYTHING in the Pertwee era was screwed up just by the mention of the word 'Michaelmas' so avoiding years just isn't enough...
They could have come up with a wibbly-wobbly type explanation blaming (including, but not limited to): The history altering in Day of the Daleks and maybe even the accidental time loop the Doctor creates by tinkering with the console, the attempted mass time-shifting of Invasion of the Dinosaurs, and the experiments with TOMTIT - all of which might have, as the 10th Doctor said, put 'a dent' in the 1980's
They could have done a lot of things to fix this. Alas, they didn't.
Looks like we're stuck with it. Ah well, it helps keep us nitpickers in business.
Well, QUITE.
New Who should just throw in the occasional 'The seventies. Or was it the eighties?' line and just leave the Fans to get on with it.
DWM:
"Doris should wake up, hear water running, see Alistair in the shower... she's back in 1968 and the whole "Doctor" and "Great Intelligence" web thing was ALL A DREAM!"
New Who should just throw in the occasional 'The seventies. Or was it the eighties?' line and just leave the Fans to get on with it.
Uh, isn't that what they've been doing this whole time?
Absolutely. It's probably time they wheeled out that line for JODIE! too but OH WAIT THEY DESTROYED UNIT.
You didn't think that Chib-Face would leave anything from the Moffat era, did you.
Emily, I firmly think that the Brigadier had the right line of thinking: give today's young people a choice between the return of National Service and the return of the Borstal system.
Danny wrote:
Btw Ambassadors of Death was deffo the 80s, Weill it could have been 1979, but outside of Mawdryn Undead UNIT was in the 80s, or at least didn’t start until 1979
Still trying to prove that UNIT happened in the 80's, I see.
Seriously, dude, it's a lost cause.
The Vanquishers:
Why is it U.N.I.T. on the screen when it's Unified not United Nations in New Who?
Does Kate spend her life wandering around clutching an artron-energy-reader in the hope of encountering a Companion?
For all Kate knows these are the MASTER'S Companions so she should probably test them before spilling useful information about 1967 villages that'll help them lie to her if necessary.
'I'm the leader of human resistance against Sontaran occupation. The name's Stewart. Kate Stewart.' - Dammit, this is one of those moments you definitely should be using the 'Lethbridge'...
Where the hell's Kate got to?
Oh. Over there. Awfully silent until the Doctor gives her permission to speak.
So...all Kate seems to have achieved is to get numerous undercover operatives killed in Sontaran Psychic Command?
'Look after yourself, Kate Stewart' - never mind HERSELF, why isn't the Doc telling Kate to rebuild UNIT and look after IT?
Power of the Doctor:
KATE: Doctor, UNIT needs your help.
DOCTOR: Bit busy, Kate. Can it wait? Oh!
KATE: Absolutely not....Now, a dozen of the world's leading seismologists have gone missing in the past two weeks. Plus of the world's most valuable paintings have disappeared from view.
DOCTOR: That's what you called us here for? Have you any idea what's going on in outer space in 1916 right now? - Yeah, to be honest, a few paintings/seismologists vamoosing aren't exactly on a par with 10% of our children being handed over to the 456 or everyone on Earth being immortal for months, neither of which you bothered summoning the Doctor for...
'Don't be cross' - interesting Kate thinks the Doc'll be cross at the sight of Ace and Tegan.
So AFTER SPYFALL, UNIT have no idea what the current Master looks like?
'Your dad was an idiot' - that man is EVIL.
'I'd only just signed the lease' - jeez, don't worry about your MEN (and women), Kate.
Awww, while I'm not exactly sorry to see the back of the word 'Fam', 'Extended Fam' including UNIT is...rather sweet.
Hey, where's Osgood?
'Don't be cross' - interesting Kate thinks the Doc'll be cross at the sight of Ace and Tegan.
Because Tegan was?
So AFTER SPYFALL, UNIT have no idea what the current Master looks like?
Excellent nit. Embarrassed I didn't catch it
'Don't be cross' - interesting Kate thinks the Doc'll be cross at the sight of Ace and Tegan.
Because Tegan was?
Kate undoubtedly knows from bitter personal experience, not to mention from her dad, that it's possible to get very annoyed indeed with the Doctor whilst s/he doesn't reciprocate or even notice...(Day of the Doctor novelisation: 'Her father...always seemed a bit cross when he talked about his old friend. His moustache was twitching as if separately irritated...The Doctor was striding towards them now, and as always her father straightened his shoulders and put some effort into a smile. Many years later, Kate found herself doing the same...')
So AFTER SPYFALL, UNIT have no idea what the current Master looks like?
Excellent nit. Embarrassed I didn't catch it
I guess...C is dead and security forces don't communicate with each other and UNIT are so embarrassed by that fiasco with the Spanish Ambassador they don't keep an eye open for the Master even though s/he's their Number One Enemy and turned Kate's dad into a Cyberman...?!
Hey, where's Osgood?
That is a VERY good point! We were deprived of seeing her fangirl over 13, or making a comment about her research showing the Doctor seems to like young, blonde women?
Admittedly THE MASTER AND THE DOCTOR have taken over Osgood's usual job of cosplaying the Doctor but still...she's in THOUSANDS of godawful UNIT audios, how can she just not make it for the real thing?! Was she killed or washing her hair or something? There are TWO of her for heaven's sake! And an endless supply of Zygon scum to step up as replacement-Osgoods if necessary...
What is the organisation UNIT?:
https://www.doctorwho.tv/news-and-features/who-are-the-organisation-unit?cm_mmc=ExactTarget-_-email-_-DW_CastAnnouncement_090123-_-email&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_campaign=DW_CastAnnouncement_090123
The Skarasen wasn't MISTAKEN for the Loch Ness Monster!
It never occurred to me Inferno-Earth had a UNIT, just a coincidental number of UNIT personnel...and I, Alastair does seem to back me up...
I can't believe it's bothering with Bells of St John and Mysterio and not the vast majority of Pertwee's UNIT stories.
The Star Beast:
'Shirley Anne Bingham, UNIT Scientific Adviser No.56' - •••• UNIT get through 'em fast.
'I'm going to get a bonus just for meeting you' - since WHEN! And WHY! You should PAY for the privilege of meeting the Doctor! Why has no one else mentioned this bonus? Is THAT why certain UNIT personnel (mentioning no Osgoods or Malcolms) get...a little over-excited? Or is it hazard pay, but since when has UNIT offered hazard pay for ANYTHING?
Oh don't bother to ask WTF HAPPENED TO OSGOOD, Doc! (He once offered to take her as a Companion! I thought he really CARED about her! And even if he doesn't, one of her is GENOCIDAL ZYGON SCUM who needs an eye kept on her!)
It was genuinely slightly confusing seeing MALE soldiers in UNIT. It's been a while.
SHIRLEY: But...that's your future. You can't know that. It's forbidden. - She said she'd read the files, does she really know nothing of The Three Doctors?
SHIRLEY: Yeah, yeah, not you, mate. I've got this. Off you pop. Bye-bye.
DOCTOR: Waited your whole life?
SHIRLEY: You wish. - On the one hand, what a refreshing change, on the other hand, WHO THE HELL DOES THIS WOMAN THINK SHE IS!
DOCTOR: You've got weapons in your wheelchair?
SHIRLEY: We all have - All...wheelchair users...?
'And UNIT have a great insurance policy. Damage to property in the course of an alien war' - since WHEN! And why didn't JODIE! tell Dan? And what kind of maniac would give UNIT an insurance policy?!
The Giggle:
'Attention, the Doctor! Attention, the Doctor! Stay where you are. You are under UNIT control. Repeat, UNIT control' - UNIT think they...CONTROL the Doctor?!
DONNA: Oh, here comes trouble.
SHIRLEY: I could say the same about you.
DOCTOR: Shirley, you can't be serious. - Awww BLESS! An Airplane fan! - And Kate Lethbridge-Stewart! - Interesting she's suddenly a 'Lethbridge' - I remember your father working night and day to keep UNIT secret, - Well, SOMEONE'S forgotten that big UNIT sign in Three Doctors - and look at you now, out and proud and defending the Earth. - Wasn't she out and proud when being the leader of human resistance against Sontaran occupation?
'I fought them all. Robots and insects and Yetis and clones. But what do we do this time, Doctor? How do we fight the human race?' - you shoot down the satellite causing this YOU MORON. (Ooh, when did she fight Yeti? And who refers to Sontarans as CLONES?)
'Hello, the Vlinx' - Gods sometimes I miss my 'the rest are all foreigners' Brig...What the HELL is that THING and what's it doing in UNIT and WHERE'S MY OSGOODS?! (Yes, I realise I'm being racist AND a hypocrite simultaneously...)
'That's my brain activity. Seems normal, albeit slightly heightened, given the end of the world' - if you really think this is the end of the world WHY DID YOU PRIORITISE FEARS OF A SOUTH KOREAN DIPLOMATIC PROTEST over ending the ending of the world...(Also, surely you could have shot down ANY of the satellites in the network to destroy said network? Just shoot a British one if you're THAT scared of South Korea.)
Kudos for being efficient enough to whip up those anti-Giggle protectors.
'No don't!' - why are the UNIT soldiers IGNORING THE DOCTOR?
'Open fire!' - why is KATE ignoring the Doctor?
Whatever happened to 'Science Leads'?