Dunno, but I find it interesting that the the Nausicaans named their home planet and species after an anime movie's heroine...
But they we don't deal in reality.
Will we have some songs by Creedence Clearwater Revival here?
I love Creedence.
Yay, Porthos is back!
Okay, I confess I don't understand the "New World Order" of Enterprise. How come Starfleet doesn't have jurisdiction over freighters? Don't they have Coast Guard-style inspection powers? If not, why? And how come a starfleet officer like Archer doesn't seem to know about a planet that seems to be a major base for pirates for a long period of time?
How come Archer didn't call for beam out of the module, or at least threaten to beam out the guys with guns before the module was detached? Sure they don't trust it, but this seems to be an emergency right?
I don't know about anyone else, but these Nausicaans seem really different from the ones we saw on TNG and DS9 - they look more like the "Nemesis" aliens from that episode where Chakotay is brainwashed. Maybe they're distant cousins?
PAL- the scene where X questions the captain's order was badly misrepresented...
Continuity plus- Admiral Forrest complements Archer on the imagery from the comet in Breaking the Ice.
Doesn't Earth still consider piracy a crime? Why would Ryan suggest that the Enterprise would take the Nausicaan back to Nausicaa? I would think a pirate captured in the act would be tried in Earth court, and that Archer should have taken the prisoner for trial (and this should have come up in the final scene too).
Either these Nausciaans are just naturally aggressive, the freighter captains naturally stubborn, or both sides are really, really dumb. To look at history, the Barbary pirates found it much cheaper to just have tribute paid- and for hundreds of years freighters found it cheaper to pay too. It wasn't until the U.S. lacked the funds to pay, and decided to deploy the navy that the pirates were crushed. (Actually, a situation like that with Archer as a futuristic Stephen Decatur wouldn't be a bad episode...)
Why didn't Enterprise's scanners detect the Nausicaan aboard Fortunate the first time they scanned? It wasn't as if Fortunate had anything to block the scan.
For someone who hadn't eaten fresh food in a long time, Ryan sure left a lot on his plate at lunch with Mayweather.
When Ryan finally lets the Enterprise crew see the Nausicaan prisoner, Archer brings T'Pol, Reed, and Phlox with him. Why not Sato, who might be needed to translate? (Indeed, we never notice any communication difficulties. Are we to assume these pirates' language is already in the linguistic files?)
That wasn't much of a hole Ryan shot in the cargo container. Resourceful Starfleet officers-plus one Vulcan, who naturally can do anything-should have been able to patch that with little trouble. In fact, the Fortunate should have had tools and materials on hand for such patching, since it seems a fairly routine hazard of doing business. Heck, a small flat square of sheet metal over the hole would do it. Pressure differential would keep it held flush to the bulkhead. (I'm a science fiction writer myself. I'm supposed to know these things. J)
Personally, I wouldn't throw a bare-knuckled punch at a Nausicaan's head. As bony and bumpy as they are, I'd be almost sure to hurt my hand.
Now, the nice touches of the week. First of course, the 47: Tucker saying "Try bypassing circuit F-47." (Or was it M-47? Didn't hear it that clearly?) What I did hear clearly, if faintly, was the sound effect in Fortunate's infirmary. As Captain Keene's lying on his diagnostic bed, you can just hear a pulse monitor, exactly like that from Doctor McCoy's Sickbay. Priceless. Thanks.
Oh, one more thing. For a cargo ship laden with twenty thousand tons of dilithium ore, it sure had a lot of open space in that one cargo pod where all the action took place.
Why would Ryan suggest that the Enterprise would take the Nausicaan back to Nausicaa?
Dunno, but I find it interesting that the the Nausicaans named their home planet and species after an anime movie's heroine...
But they we don't deal in reality.
Well, we have revisionist starship class names and revisionist Nausicaans. All in one hour.
Enterprise is now an NX-class ship. Berman and Braga had originally said that Enterprise had an NX prefix to match later Starfleet experimental ships, such as the Excalibur (NX-2000) and Defiant (NX-74205). Now NX represents a class of ship. So, why will hundreds of later Starfleet vessels of several classes all have the NCC prefix, while only experimental prototypes have NX?
The Nausicaans seemed really different from their appearances in TNG and DS9. They were much more civilized. It’s almost like they’re going to devolve in the next 200 years.
More nits and notes:
-- Enterprise is in a battle, firing weapons and taking fire, yet the helm station is unmanned because Mayweather needs to pace around as he tries to talk down Ryan. No wonder the Nausicaans made so many direct hits. Considering the freighter was able to damage Enterprise’s long-range scanners, I wouldn’t want to test the Nausicaan’s capabilities.
-- Last week, Archer told a guest star he would never forget her. This week, he tells a guest star he will see him again. I wouldn’t lay odds on either happening.
-- But I did like seeing the Admiral again. Porthos, too.
-- Detaching a section of the freighter, to provide cover for a getaway, was a weird maneuver. From the way the freighters were described, it would seem each cargo section would be too valuable to risk losing. Perhaps Ryan planned to return for it.
-- In battle, Ryan told someone to go to maximum hull plating. Huh? It seems that polarized hull plating would be something that is either on or off.
-- OK, who is the Fortunate Son? Mayweather? I don’t know about that. Nothing suggested that people on a Starfleet ship were more fortunate than those on freighters. Ryan? Maybe, I presume he actually was a son born on the Fortunate.
-- I thought the term space boomer was supposed to refer to a generation, like baby boomers. But the freighter captain, who was too old to be in the same generation as Mayweather and Ryan, indicated he was a second- or third-generation boomer.
They eject the storage pod and Archer calls for a shuttle, but where would it dock to pick them up? The first time they went over to the Fortunate the primary docking port was damaged and they had to use the auxiliary port. Neither of these was on a storage pod. How did they get out of this thing?
When Archer is woken up for his message from Star Fleet, I would think he would turn the lights up. This would help him avoid stumbling into things and make it easier for the Admiral to see Archer.
Interestingly, Archer sleeps with some lights on instead of total darkness.
Archer mentions it is 4am. Which time zone would that be? The Admiral seems to be in daylight.
I really have to wonder about the justice system shown in this episode. Our freighter first officer attacks four crewmen (and I don't think those weapons have a "stun" setting), he threatens their lives with a hull breach and he fires upon Enterprise. His punishment: a demotion and unpleasant work duties. On the other hand, we have Nausicaan pirates that attack freighters, presumably causing injuries and deaths. Their punishment: an offer of improved diplomatic relations and cooperation. Pardon me, but I don't get it. Was the comfy chair not available?
NITS:
1. Why don't these freighters have Warp 5 engines? (Or at least the warp 3 engine mentioned several times in this episode) It's not economical to take a 5 year cargo run when you can do it in 6 months.
2. Does it seem wise to put the cargo sections on the outer part of the ship? Wouldn't it make more sense to protect them near the inner part? But then maybe they use the cargo sections as shilding should there be trouble.
3. Ryan takes four shots with a primitive gun and blasts a hole through the hull into space. The Naussicans spend several minutes with THREE sophisticated phasers trying to open a door. This is not a good design. Perhaps they should use the door material on the hull.
4. Admiral Forrest says that the nearest Starfleet vessel is 3 weeks away. What Starfleet vessel? I thought the Enterprise was the first Starfleet vessel to be launched. Have there been others since then? Mayweather does mention 3 other NX class vessels being designed.
THOUGHTS:
>> Anthony Montgomery isn't that bad of an actor, but he's sure the worst out of the cast.
>> Wasn't the "Horizon" the ship that visited that planet in "A Piece of the Action" about 100 years before the USS Enterprise got there? Perhaps Mayweather's parents are the strange people who were reading "Chigago Mobs of the Twenties"
>> I see nothing wrong with calling the Enterprise an NX class starship. NX represents "Experimental" so basically the Enterprise is Experimental Class.
>> PaulG: Earth is not the police force of the galaxy. They can't go around arresting people from powerful civilizations.
>> Porthos is back. So is Admiral Forrest.
Nice episode. Good character development. Good action. Good plot. Not too shabby guys!
NEXT WEEK: Silik returns. A guy from the 31st century shows up. There's a spy on board. Sounds like a goodie to me!
See ya later
TUE
>> PaulG: Earth is not the police force of the galaxy. They can't go around arresting people from powerful civilizations.
You are certainly entitled to arrest people when they are pirates attacking your ships! Actually, as I (and PaulG) pointed out, law and order in the future seems VERY odd. Apparently, if you own an earth freighter, you are 'on your own'- you have no claim to earth gov't protection, they have no jurisdiction over you. This is a huge change from the 'flag' system that has been used for hundreds of years and is still used today for ocean going ships. Apparently in the future things are more anarchic. Well, at least it would explain why starfleet didn't need to consult a civilian government on a matter of diplomatic importance. With so many civilians running amok uncontrolled, no doubt the earth government feels there is no point keeping close control on the military...
TUE, from my understanding Enterprise is Starfleet's first ship with a Warp 5 engine, but not its first ship. I imagine Starfleet already has (well) a fleet of ships that have smaller engines, similar to the freighter's, which can't venture as far as Enterprise.
Also, it seems the higher-ranking officers have had previous spacefaring assignments, so there must have been ships for them to serve on.
My nit about the NX class: If Enterprise is an experimental ship, I can understand that. But after the first ship has been tested, commissioned and construction is planned for further ships, why still it an experiment?
When Ryan finally lets the Enterprise crew see the Nausicaan prisoner, Archer brings T'Pol, Reed, and Phlox with him. Why not Sato, who might be needed to translate? (Indeed, we never notice any communication difficulties. Are we to assume these pirates' language is already in the linguistic files?) SMT
If the Nausicaan pirates have been preying on the freighters for years (See also my last reply, below), then there language would have been in Starfleet's language banks already, especially since many of the language files came from the Vulcans.
For someone who hadn't eaten fresh food in a long time, Ryan sure left a lot on his plate at lunch with Mayweather. SMT
Didn't he leave the table in disgust over Mayweather's "recruitment drive"?
Oh, one more thing. For a cargo ship laden with twenty thousand tons of dilithium ore, it sure had a lot of open space in that one cargo pod where all the action took place. SMT
-- Detaching a section of the freighter, to provide cover for a getaway, was a weird maneuver. From the way the freighters were described, it would seem each cargo section would be too valuable to risk losing. Perhaps Ryan planned to return for it \-2 {Trike}
They can't always wait until there's enough cargo to be filled to the rafters. And it makes sense that they would house the prisoner in one of the most empty cargo pods. Likewise with setting a trap in a pod they plan to jettison. And given the choice between jettisoning the pod and losing the chance to go after the Nausicans, Ryan chose the former as the lesser of two "evils."
-- OK, who is the Fortunate Son? Mayweather? I don?t know about that. Nothing suggested that people on a Starfleet ship were more fortunate than those on freighters. Ryan? Maybe, I presume he actually was a son born on the Fortunate. Trike
Actually, he wasn't born on the Fortunate, either. The Title was a riff on the idea of a freighter crew as a family.
-- I thought the term space boomer was supposed to refer to a generation, like baby boomers. But the freighter captain, who was too old to be in the same generation as Mayweather and Ryan, indicated he was a second- or third-generation boomer. Trike
No, its always been clear that "boomer" was a nickname for freighter crew, or perhaps anyone without a "home' planet, at least to me. It seemed obvious that Mayweather was the ship's boomer because of his background, not because of his age, which seems close to Hoshi's and must be close to at least some of the "below decks" crew.
1. Why don't these freighters have Warp 5 engines? (Or at least the warp 3 engine mentioned several times in this episode) It's not economical to take a 5 year cargo run when you can do it in 6 months. TUE
Warp 5 (Military) and Warp 3 (Commercial) engines have only just finally been approved for production. That's why the Enterprise is the first Warp 5 ship. It's also why The Enterprise, far out in unexplored territory is the only ship that can aid the Fortunate in a reasonable amount of time -- Older Starfleet vessels are barely faster (if at all) than the freighters. This might also answer the question why freighters are so independant of, and distrustful of Starfleet. Until now, they only ran across them when approachin ports, where they handled Customs and import duties.
But even on the assumption that the Warp 3 engines have been available longer, don't forget that these are independant merchant vehicles. They probably have to save up for years to afford a better engine, and in the meantime, better weapons and sheilding seem a more urgent priority.
2. Does it seem wise to put the cargo sections on the outer part of the ship? Wouldn't it make more sense to protect them near the inner part? But then maybe they use the cargo sections as shilding should there be trouble. TUE
Those cargo pds are basically the equivalent of truck trailers and cargo canisters. When they get a shipment to its destination, they drop it off and pick up another, already loaded. Saves a lot of time.
4. Admiral Forrest says that the nearest Starfleet vessel is 3 weeks away. What Starfleet vessel? I thought the Enterprise was the first Starfleet vessel to be launched. Have there been others since then? Mayweather does mention 3 other NX class vessels being designed. TUE
Again we are talking about older, slower, Starfleet vessels.
Oh, and I forgot about the North Star, the ship were Ryan lived with his parents. The North Star experienced some disaster or tragedy where his parents perished. Luigi
The clear indication is that the North Star was destroyed in a pirate attack. It is the reason that Ryan was so obsessed with revenge, that he was willing to risk everything .
Admiral Forrest tells Archer in the beginning of Act 1 that the Starfleet vessel nearest to the Fortunate is three weeks away, but the Enterprise is only a day and a half away. First of all, I wasn?t aware there were other Starfleet vessels anywhere near as far as the Fortunate and the Enterprise. I thought the Enterprise was the first non-generational ship that could do this. Luigi
The admiral also apologizes for recalling the Enterprise tback into Known Space. The Freighters are Warp ships. They are only "generational" in that children are concieved and born during the months-long voyages, not that they go to places that are so far that it takes more than a generation to get there.
Travis mentioned Y-500 class ships in Act 1 of Strange New World, but on the bridge in the beginning of Act 1, refers to the Fortunate as a "Y-class" with no numerical suffix. Luigi
The DY-500 class ships, which we have accepted as the equivalent of the Y-500 ships, were Colony transports and were "sleeper ships," not generational ships and not warp ships. Y-class freighters are evidently a different ship class altogether.
Looking at the transporter in Act 2, Ryan says, "They say that for a split second you can actually feel yourself in both places at once." Given that a person/object is COMPLETELY dematerialized before being rematerialized, how can this be? Luigi
Your description may be accurate from a technical standpoint, but from a psychological standpoint it makes sense that a person would experience a "moment" of being in both places at once. It is related to the persistance of vision phenomenon that turns a series of still pictures into a movie.
Then how can Saavik and Kirk carry on a conversation about that lying dog spok in Wrath of Kahn? And he is only repeating what someone SAID to him anyway.
So let me get this straight. The Enterprise is outside of "known space", but it is essentially "the only ship in the quadrant"????
Sorry, I don't remember who pointed out the puny earth weapons causing a hull breach while the mighty Nausicaan weapons have trouble with a door. The Nausicaan have are some sorta energy beam (gee, do people actually say "some sorta"). If I remember correctly the freighter crew use guns with bullets. There are some types of bullets that will break up if they meet resistance of say, a bulkhead. To puncture the hull he must not have one of those. The Nausicaans would be foolish to use an energy weapons that can accidentally cause a hull breach while they are inside.
ScottN, I bought that hook, line, and sinker. If the other Star Fleet ships can do warp 1.8 and the enterprise can do warp 5 it can be farther away in "unknown space" but be able to get there before any other Star Fleet ship. I missed the beginning of the episode, so I missed the exact wording. Did the Admiral say, "You are the closest ship," or, "You will get there before the other ship."? (I hate punctuation dilemmas like that. Sheesh, the Admiral didn't ask a question, I did.)
Alternate title: "Space Pirates aboard Red Dwarf"
The only thing missing on the Fortunate was chicken soup dispensers.
Why must they continually recycle actors from previous Star Treks? Not that they're bad (the actors are generally always great) but the amount of time spent wondering "where have I seen that guy/gal before?" becomes distracting. Especially when a bad guy on TNG becomes a good guy on Enterprise.
I saw from a mile away T'Pol's "I told the truth" line. Are the creators attempting to repair the damaged Vulcan mysique?
I think the Nausicaans looked different because of their 2150's style hair and tropical golden tans (versus pasty pale skin). Thankfully, they still act like outerspace Heavy Metal rockers.
So Archer offers to return Ryan to Earth. When? In 7 years?? Or will this Enterprise, like Picard's, return to Earth on demand?
I sincerely hope that Anthony Montgomery wins the "Most Improved Actor/Character" award at the end of this show's run. I like him, but watching the "I don't care about you anymore..." talk (who the heck was driving the ship??) was just plain painful. It's as if he graduated from the W. Shatner school of acting.
Archer always seems to be snacking on something when crew visit him. Were any other captains like this? It's a marvel he's not more girthy. For humor he should be caught chewing on one of Porthos' Milk Bones.
The admiral compared the two Starfleet ships' positions to the freighter in terms of travel time, not distance, and spoke of the other ship as "the closest," not "the next closest."
He said the nearest other ship was 3 weeks away.
The Nausicaans seemed really different from their appearances in TNG and DS9. They were much more civilized. It’s almost like they’re going to devolve in the next 200 years.
These nausicaans were space privateers who go around attacking ships with coordinated attacks. The ones from TNG (from the EP tapestry) were a bunch of drunks in a bar (well we don't know if they were drunk). You wouldn't expect all Nausicaans to be the same. Think about humans , on one had you've got very smart calculating civilized people, while at the same time you have others who are the kind of dumb rednecks who get in a bar fight every weekend.
Hoshi refers to the "away team" when the storage pod is about to be cut loose from the Fortunate.
Was Ryan so blinded by his desire for revenge on the Naussicans that he forgot about the children aboard the Fortunate?
--Ryan takes four shots with a primitive gun and blasts a hole through the hull into space. The Naussicans spend several minutes with THREE sophisticated phasers trying to open a door. This is not a good design. Perhaps they should use the door material on the hull.--
Maybe Ryan deliberately weakened that section of the hull before he brought Archer and party into the storage pod. Then he could shoot it out more easily when he was ready to dump them. (This may not be the best explanation, but it's a possibility, anyway.)
Who's in charge of Tactical while Reed is with the landing party? I also wondered about this in TAI, when Reed was the acting captain.
Was Ryan so blinded by his desire for revenge on the Naussicans that he forgot about the children aboard the Fortunate?
Won't SOMEBODY think of the children?
Defiant (NX-74205)
I thought the Defiant was NX-01 as well?
No NX-74205 is correct Scott not NX-01
It appears that some time between Breaking The Ice
and Forunate Son the Enterprise returned to normal
traveled space lanes,as shown by the fact that the
communication between Archer and Forrest was more
instanteous than in the previous eps.
I believe that the cargo pods probably had loading
hatches to enable loading and unloading in space,
so Archer probably meant for the shuttle pod to
dock at the loading hatch.
The Fortunate's captian kicks Ryan down to able-spaceman and has him cleaning out the goo in the
fusion generators for the rest of the voyage!
(Actually I think he says he demoted him down
to able-seaman,which if accurate would be a bit
nitty!!!!)
Maybe the next musically inspired ep will be named
Proud Mary!LOL!!!!
PaulG: When Archer is woken up for his message from Star Fleet, I would think he would turn the lights up. This would help him avoid stumbling into things and make it easier for the Admiral to see Archer.
I thought the opposite when I saw it. One of my peeves is that on TV, whenever a sleeping person gets a call, they always turn the light on first, then answer the phone. Not me! I always hope I can get back to sleep right away.
Is something missing here? TomM quotes Luigi above, but I don't see Luigi's post.
Ooops, forgot to add a few.
It still sounds a little odd to hear "bio-signs" instead of "life-signs". To me, life-signs are general, denoting something there, or not (and maybe the species.) Bio-signs seem like they should be more specific, like heart-rate, temperature, breathing, etc. But the terms are obviously not being used that way.
I'd think that the first priority would be to beam in a patch kit to the leaking module if none were available there, rather than calling and waiting for a shuttle.
I wouldn't lean in that close to somebody with such prominent fangs/mandibles (Ryan and the Nausicaan). All the prisoner had to do was lean forward a bit and he could have taken half of Ryan's face off.
::Is something missing here? TomM quotes Luigi above, but I don't see Luigi's post.::
Go to the main board to find out.
Spockania: Okay, I confess I don't understand the "New World Order" of Enterprise. How come
Starfleet doesn't have jurisdiction over freighters? Don't they have Coast
Guard-style inspection powers? If not, why? And how come a starfleet officer like
Archer doesn't seem to know about a planet that seems to be a major base for
pirates for a long period of time?
The Coast Guard guards the coast. They have no jurisdiction over crimes in international waters. Neither does the Navy. Similarly, Star Fleet would certainly have jurisdiction orbiting Earth, or in "Federation Space." However, the Federation has yet to be established.
JOSH G: The Next Gen's writers were big Anime fans and the name Nausicaan was borrowed directly from Anime. They worked a lot of other Anime symbols and names into TNG.
check out
http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/st-tng/trivia/convention_notes.html
That's a very interesting site; I haven't seen much anime though.
Nausicaa is also from Greek mythology.
In the Odyssey, she was the daughter of Alcinous, King of Phaeacia. She helped the shipwrecked Odysseus and her father offered her in marriage, but Odysseus, loyal to his wife, refused.
http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/nausicaa/index.html
The name sounded terribly familiar, because a while ago there were TV ads for a snack food for dogs called Snausages, and they had an animated dog saying, "Snausages," and it sounded like "Nausicaans".
Where was the power source for the ejected cargo compartment located. Apparently it still had artificial gravity (everybody and everything seemed stuck to the floor)and lighting. Does this seem right?
eb: Your point is good regarding the coast guard and 'international waters'. But the coast guard (and I belive also the navy) have the right to inspect US flag ships anywhere. Presumably these freighters are "earth flagged" so the Earth starfleet should be able to inspect the freighter anyway. On the other hand, it isn't necessarily a nit I suppose. It does seem related to the "It's bad- go on in" view that the Federation had toward shipping in the gamma quadrant in DS9.
I don't have many nits for this episode, but when I was watching it, I kept thinking of the Nausicaans stabbing Captain Picard through the heart, so I was shouting at Ryan things like "He's not telling you because you're not torturing him! Use Nausicaan torture! Stab him through the heart!" That's what they get for hurting my hero.
Mmmmm... Snausages!
Spockania: How come Starfleet doesn't have jurisdiction over freighters? Don't they have Coast Guard-style inspection powers? If not, why?
Because the Coast Guard only has authority in UNITED STATES. waters. The Coast Guard can’t go to the Mediterranean or the Indian Ocean and pull rank. Similarly, Earth hasn’t claimed space in many parts of space because it hasn’t had that many fast ships yet.
Spockania: And how come a starfleet officer like Archer doesn't seem to know about a planet that seems to be a major base for pirates for a long period of time?
Which planet are you referring to? When Travis told them to look for Nausicaans to find the Fortunate, the asteroid is where they went.
Spockania: How come Archer didn't call for beam out of the module, or at least threaten to beam out the guys with guns before the module was detached? Sure they don't trust it, but this seems to be an emergency right?
The presumably did do that to get out of there. Given that the freight runners are human, I wouldn’t have thought them capable of such a thing, and perhaps neither did Archer and co.
Also, could you elaborate on the whole "tribute" thing, Spockania? How was it cheaper? How did it work?
SMT: Why didn't Enterprise's scanners detect the Nausicaan aboard Fortunate the first time they scanned? It wasn't as if Fortunate had anything to block the scan.
They explained this, and big knee-slapping KUDOS to the creators for an anti-nit that was both PRE-EMPTIVE and SUBTLE! T’Pol tells the crew on the bridge in the beginning of Act 1 that the Fortunate crew roster numbers 23. Travis then points out that that doesn’t count babies on board who haven’t been added to the most recently updated stats. So when T’Pol later scans 24 lifeforms on board the Forunate, this explains why they aren’t immediately alerted that someone’s on board who shouldn’t be there. Very well done!
SMT: I wouldn't throw a bare-knuckled punch at a Nausicaan's head. As bony and bumpy as they are, I'd be almost sure to hurt my hand.
Ryan threw the punch across the Nausicaan’s face, not near his forehead, where the horns are. (Well, actually, the actor playing Ryan never made contact, but that’s where he was aiming. )
SMT: Tucker saying "Try bypassing circuit F-47." (Or was it M-47? Didn't hear it that clearly?)
It was L-47, and Travis was the one who said it.
By the way, SMT, what have you written? Anything I might’ve read or can find somewhere?
Trike: From the way the freighters were described, it would seem each cargo section would be too valuable to risk losing. Perhaps Ryan planned to return for it.
Obviously, Ryan made the decision that that was the only way he could get away.
SMT: In battle, Ryan told someone to go to maximum hull plating. Huh? It seems that polarized hull plating would be something that is either on or off.
If polarizing the hull is a matter of running energy to it, then couldn’t you pump as little or as much as you wanted?
Clint X: They eject the storage pod and Archer calls for a shuttle, but where would it dock to pick them up? The first time they went over to the Fortunate the primary docking port was damaged and they had to use the auxiliary port. Neither of these was on a storage pod.
But the cargo module connects to the Fortunate by a connecting passageway, and Ryan had to seal it off when ejecting the module. Can’t the shuttlepod dock there?
PaulG: When Archer is woken up for his message from Star Fleet, I would think he would turn the lights up. This would help him avoid stumbling into things and make it easier for the Admiral to see Archer.
Well, some people do, and some don’t, Paul. There is a long box between my bed and the door, and I’m more than adept at stepping over it when I get up during the night to use the bathroom without turning on the light. The light of Archer’s viewer must be enough for him. Besides, you yourself point out that he already has some lights on.
PaulG: Archer mentions it is 4am. Which time zone would that be? The Admiral seems to be in daylight.
The Admiral seems to be in his office, Paul, which is obviously well-lit.
The Undesirable Element: Why don't these freighters have Warp 5 engines? (Or at least the warp 3 engine mentioned several times in this episode)
I agree with the latter portion, TUE. Warp 5 engines, however are brand new.
TUE: Does it seem wise to put the cargo sections on the outer part of the ship? Wouldn't it make more sense to protect them near the inner part? But then maybe they use the cargo sections as shilding should there be trouble.
That, and they can be easier to jettison in case they’re attacked by pirate who are more interested in the cargo, and it makes it easier to load the cargo.
TUE: Ryan takes four shots with a primitive gun and blasts a hole through the hull into space. The Naussicans spend several minutes with THREE sophisticated phasers trying to open a door. This is not a good design. Perhaps they should use the door material on the hull.
Good point, but I should point out that they were firing at three different spots on the door. Also, is it possible for Ryan to have acquired a more powerful gun, perhaps contraband?
Trike: TUE, from my understanding Enterprise is Starfleet's first ship with a Warp 5 engine, but not its first ship. I imagine Starfleet already has (well) a fleet of ships that have smaller engines, similar to the freighter's, which can't venture as far as Enterprise.
So did Starfleet start out as merely a freight running operation? Or were these other ships exploratory ones?
Trike: My nit about the NX class: If Enterprise is an experimental ship, I can understand that. But after the first ship has been tested, commissioned and construction is planned for further ships, why still it an experiment?
Obviously, the NX class DOESN’T mean "experimental", as B&B stated in pre-publicity. Since it was never stated in the show, that notion isn’t canonical. It must only later become the designation for experimental ships. BTW, I don’t know if the Defiant could be considered "experimental" at the end of DS9’s run, but it kept the NX prefix.
Trike: I presume[Ryan] was actually was a son born on the Fortunate.
He told Travis in the mess hall that he grew up on the North Star.
TomM: Warp 5 (Military) and Warp 3 (Commercial) engines have only just finally been approved for production…But even on the assumption that the Warp 3 engines have been available longer, these are independant merchant vehicles. They probably have to save up for years to afford a better engine, and in the meantime, better weapons and shielding seem a more urgent priority.
Good point, Tom. Just out of curiosity, did they ever say that W3’s were as new as W5’s, and that they were for commercial use? I don’t have the episode on tape.
TomM: The clear indication is that the North Star was destroyed in a pirate attack. It is the reason that Ryan was so obsessed with revenge, that he was willing to risk everything.
Highly likely, but not they didn’t specifically state it for some reason. I’m not sure why they didn’t just say in the Mess Hall scene what happened to it, or why they didn’t specify that the Nausicaans did it. All I they said was that Travis’ mention of Ryan’s desire for revenge could refer to what happened to the Fortunate and Captain Keeene.
TomM: The admiral also apologizes for recalling the Enterprise back into Known Space. The Freighters are Warp ships. They are only "generational" in that children are concieved and born during the months-long voyages, not that they go to places that are so far that it takes more than a generation to get there.
But maybe they used ships that had multiple generations of the same families growing up on them in space in between runs, hence "generation", even if the word is usually used differently. But how could this ship have gotten out 78 light years from Earth or so (give or take) with Warp 1.8? Warp 1 is c. How much faster is Warp 1.8?
TomM: The DY-500 class ships, which we have accepted as the equivalent of the Y-500 ships…
Whoa, where, when and how did THIS happen? Travis mentioned the old
Y-500 class freighters in the campfire scene in "Strange New World". He made no mention of them being one and the same with the DY’s.
TomM: Colony transports and were "sleeper ships," not generational ships and not warp ships.
That’s not true. Trip said during that campfire scene that they were retiblue "decades" ago. Since First Contact occurblue 88 years prior, these presumably were warp ships. They couldn’t have had them prior to First Contact, when Earth looked like downtown Kabul after an all-night kegger. And the Mariposa from Up the Long Ladder(TNG), which was a DY-500 ship, was launched only 28 years prior to this episode. Of course they were warp ships.
TomM: Y-class freighters are evidently a different ship class altogether.
Yes, I know that, but why are there numeral designations for the prior ones, but not the Fortunate? How can you have a Y-500 class "decades ago", and a DY-500 class 28 years ago, and just a plain old "Y-class" sanz number now? It doesn’t matter if you buy a vehicle from Northrop, Lockheed Martin, McDonnel Douglas, General Dynamics, or Boeing. They’re ALL going to have number and letter designations, regardless of whether they’re military or commercial models.
Your description may be accurate from a technical standpoint, but from a psychological standpoint it makes sense that a person would experience a "moment" of being in both places at once. It is related to the persistance of vision phenomenon that turns a series of still pictures into a movie.
It would seem to be make more sense to compare it to the sensation of deep sleep, as when you’re having surgery, or in a coma. At no point do you simultaneously} perceive the pre-sleep and post-sleep environment. It is sequential. This even holds true in those rare instances where you wakeup with no memory of falling asleep, with the perception of having just gone to sleep a second ago, which I experienced once or twice as a child. Transporting should be the same. You’re on the starting point pad. Then blackness. Then the destination pad. It should be sequential, not simultaneous.
The New Warrior:
I think you are Luigi Nova. I am not that dumb however since i am not 100 % sure i will leave your stuff up for now
And I suspect Richie Vest is Cranberry.
Just out of curiosity, did they ever say that W3?s were as new as W5?s, and that they were for commercial use? I don?t have the episode on tape. TNW
It's just an assumption on my part. But I went on to show that even if that assumption was wrong, there are still good reasons for having a Warp 1.8 engine.
But how could this ship have gotten out 78 light years from Earth or so (give or take) with Warp 1.8? TNW
Again, they are not 78 LYs out. Enterprise was recalled to meet this emergency in "local" space.
Travis mentioned the old
Y-500 class freighters in the campfire scene in "Strange New World". He made no mention of them being one and the same with the DY?s TNW
No he didn't, but on that episode's board, the consensus seemed to be that he (or the script writer) misspoke, and he meant the Dy-500. I did indicate that "we have accepted" rather than that it is a canonnical fact.
And the Mariposa from Up the Long Ladder(TNG), which was a DY-500 ship, was launched only 28 years prior to this episode. Of course they were warp ships. TNW
I was thinking of the Botany Bay (Space Seed, TOS). Maybe I confused different ship classes.
Yes, I know that, but why are there numeral designations for the prior ones, but not the Fortunate? How can you have a Y-500 class "decades ago", and a DY-500 class 28 years ago, and just a plain old "Y-class" sanz number now? It doesn?t matter if you buy a vehicle from Northrop, Lockheed Martin, McDonnel Douglas, General Dynamics, or Boeing. They?re ALL going to have number and letter designations, regardless of whether they?re military or commercial models.
Just a few years ago, when the big three automakers still each had three to five different "divisions" but each division making basically the same car, each division would have a different name for the model, but there was also a designation for the basic design, which was often a single letter. I see J-class and Y-class freighters as basically like that.
About the sensation of being in two places at once, it was descibed as a "split-second." In actual endurance it would be more like a cut than a dissolve while watching a movie, but some people would still claim to experience it (and believe it).
You really need to develop a new style of posting. If the only difference from Luigi's style is the color of the headers/quotes, Ritchie is not going to continue to grant you the benefit of the doubt too long. (Especially when in replacing "blue" for "red" you wind up with the word "retiblue").
Tom
Two things
1. My name is spelled with no T Richie
2. No that's not the only reason why
Sorry about the misspelling, Richie. I could claim that my fingers slipped, but actually it was just plain carelessness.
Did you hit the "post" button too soon? Your second point seems incomplete. (Though I think I see where you were going with it.)
TNW:
I was referring to Nausicaa. Archer seems to have no idea that this planet exists.
Tribute (in the 19th century) essentially worked like road tolls do today. A nation (or company) would pay a certain amount to (say) the Emir of Tripoli, and in return ships from that nation or company were not pirated. It was cheaper because you didn't lose men and cargo, insurance was lower, and you knew the costs, etc. The pirate liked it because they got the cash without having to risk their necks.
Captain Keene is played by the same actor who was the Trabe Commander in Voyager's "Alliances."
Spockania, it sounds more like Mob "protection" than tolls. Maybe the negotiations that Archer tried to start result in a form of this racket. Maybe that's why the Horizon has a book about the Mob in Old Chicago when they visit Iotia sometime in the next half-century.
New Warrior: "By the way, SMT, what have you written? Anything I might’ve read or can find
somewhere?"
SMT: http://www.webspan.net/~smt
Oh, and I think you got me mixed up with someone else on your hull plating anti-nit.
Nice to See Commander Keene got Promoted.
Just an observation, but the front part of the freighter sure looked like the "head" of a Romulan Warbird.
Sort of. The front if flat rather than rounded, it doesn't come to a point at the bottom, and there is a brigtly lit deck across the top.
Kinda looks like a Cylon helmet from Battlestar Gallactica!
You *know* it's over when the crew of an NX class
starship combining old- and new-school Treknology
can be upstaged by that of essentially a warp-ca-
pable trailer truck; when the latter do what an
old-school Trek crew would've done, and opened a
can of whup@$$ on their enemies; when I liked this one episode better than _all_ the others.
Of course, considering B&B didn't write it, that's probably the reason.
In the TOS episode, A Piece Of The Action, it mentions the visit of a ship called Horizon to Sigma Iotia. It states that when that visit occured, a century before the episode, subspace radio had not been invented yet. The Horizon visit would have taken place in 2167.
So if subspace radio didn't exist in 2167, how could it exist in 2151, sixteen years earlier?
Actually, the creators were very careful to show that the ship was travelling at warp while Archer was talking to Admiral Leonard on the subspace radio.
Although it hasn't been stated in an episode yet, TPTB have said that vessels can only use the subspace radio while at warp.
See ya later
TUE
Most of my anti-nit nits have already been taken, but somone asked why Ryan wasn't punished more harshly. He was. Especially if he was broken down from 1st officer, which I presume he was, to an able-bodied seaman or spaceman. For most of earth's history, the officers of a ship have had it usually better then the crew, whether navy or otherwise. Better quarters. Better food. And I presume it is no different during the time of the "Enterprise." Thus it was quite a punishment to be sent down from officer's guarters to where the crew bunk and eat the food that the crew eats. And who is to say that he will not be turned over to the authorities for further punishment, when the space freighter reaches its destination. And not so much nits, but questions. How arrogant do the Nausicaans think they are? To send over only three men to take back the prisioner. If I was them, I send over more then that. If only to overawe the opposition and prevent a firefight from breaking out, which is what happened. And how come everybody on the show was such a bad shot? I know getting shot at, throws your accuracy off, but one would think with all the shots being fired--more then one person would have been hit. Still, one of the better episdoes this season.
I aint the fortunate one.
So they can only talk faster than light when they are going faster than light. they better have some dang good call waiting. wasnt there another show that they ripped that off of. oh how innovative brannon and braga is. they've ripped off babylon 5, stargate, red dwarf, star wars and i have tyo say at least they are ripping off from the best. why can't they be more innovative on their own.
Can the admiral see the trees?
Mhhhm Duff Beer.
TUE: "Although it hasn't been stated in an episode yet, TPTB have said that vessels can only use the subspace radio while at warp."
Interesting. But then ... how does Starfleet Command, on Earth, use the subspace radio? Do they accelerate the whole planet to warp speed to send a call to Archer? (I'd think I would have noticed the nacelles.)
I'm sure they can explain it away. I'm just interested in seeing how they do it.
Can the Earth do warp 8 without all the people in Scotland complaining that she can't take much more of this.
Anonymous3313 said:
wasnt there another show that they ripped that off of. oh how innovative brannon and braga is. they've ripped off babylon 5, stargate, red dwarf, star wars and i have tyo say at least they are ripping off from the best. why can't they be more innovative on their own.
So in every one of those shows, they can't use a subspace radio unless they're at warp? Now I don't know about Babylon 5 and Red Dwarf (since I don't watch them), but I don't recall Stargate or Star Wars ever mentioning a restriction like that. And I wouldn't be making fun of them. You can't even use proper grammar ("Oh how innovative Brannon and Braga is!") And they're the SAME person! It's Berman and Braga. Brannon Braga is one guy.
SMT said:
Interesting. But then ... how does Starfleet Command, on Earth, use the subspace radio? Do they accelerate the whole planet to warp speed to send a call to Archer? (I'd think I would have noticed the nacelles.)
Perhaps only one person needs to be at warp. I was under the impression (keep in mind, many of my impressions are wrong) that when a ship is at warp, it is travelling in subspace. I was also under the impression that subspace radio meant that messages were sent through subspace. Perhaps a message cannot be recieved unless you are in subspace to pick it up.
These are just a few thoughts. This does not explain away the nit. I see what you're saying. Both parties should have to be at warp.
See ya later
TUE
Richie, you have submitted a post suggesting that "The New Warrior" is Luigi Novi. However, you have adamantly warned all of us that you will not allow any posts regarding Luigi. Doesn't that rule apply to you as well? Are you exempt? If so, why?
Please either delete your post regarding Luigi and the New Warrior or I will assume we may all make comments about him.
A word about B&B "ripping off" from other shows. If that is your definition of "ripping off" Shakespeare also "ripped off" all of his plots. (No B&B are not in the same category as Shakespeare.) To "rip off" a translation of Cyrano DeBergerac, "Yes, but they steal from the best."
There were many movies that had FTL drives. Is Star Trek a "rip off" of them too?
Perhaps only one person needs to be at warp. I was under the impression (keep in mind, many of my impressions are wrong) that when a ship is at warp, it is travelling in subspace. I was also under the impression that subspace radio meant that messages were sent through subspace. Perhaps a message cannot be recieved unless you are in subspace to pick it up.
So how do they use subspace radio to communicate between planets? I'd never seen any sort of limitation on subspace radio before (of course, TOS and later *are* supposed to have more advanced tech than ENT).
The scene where the Fortunate's crew waited for the Nausicaans to break into the door.... didn't it remind you of the very beginning of Star Wars episode 4? I was just waiting for Darth Vader to come strolling in.
The NX class thing threw me as well, but maybe somewhere along the line, Starfleet decided to designate all expermental ships regardless of design NX-whatever to honor this first class of ships.
I'm dissapointed with all you Nitpickers! I saw this on Wednesday when it aired but I haven't been able to get to a computer 'til now. I thought the sub-space radio nit would have been pounced on long before it was!
This supposed anti-nit really doesn't hold up at all. Archer mentions something about subspace antennas to boost the range of the radios. Fine, but if you have to be at warp when you use subspace radio, wouldn't these antennas have to be at warp all the time? What would they do, fly around in little warp circles? Doesn't this violate our favorite rule of warp travel, "Faster than light, no left or right?" And then there's the fact that somehow Earth must be traveling at warp for this to work. Obviously something fishy is going on there. Add to that the fact that they said in "A Piece of the Action" that the Horizion visited the planet before subspace radio was invented, then Enterprise should not have subspace radio at all! Period!
Richie, this board is at 100K.
Uh, my is Luigi Nova. I've never posted here before. So why am I bannned?
Richie will not be able to help. You will have to wait for the new moderator to take over. Rightiousness and decency won, Richie is gone!
No I still say Luigi is wrong. He is an arrogant jerk and very rude. However, he seems to have the support of the people so i will step aside and let him be the moderator. He wants to be it so badly
Elizabeth I felt I had to at least give warning before simply just deleting it. I had to say something.
Doesnt matter anyways I am gone
Richie Vest: I regret that you feel the need to quit. Moderating the current Trek boards is the most difficult task on Nitcentral. I give credit to any guy who could do it for as long as you did (I have no idea how long you've been doing it for. A long time methinks). I hope you find happiness (and a lower stress level) as a common nitpicker like the rest of us.
Good job all around! Kudos!
To All:
If Luigi doesn't want the job of new moderator, I'll do it temporarily until a more permanent replacement can be found. (In about 7 or 8 months, my free time will be severely shortened). I'd rather someone else does it, but I really don't mind. I've moderated before (the Farscape board) so I think I can handle it.
If you guys have no objections or other candidates for the job, I'll email Phil with my request for the job.
See ya later
TUE
TUE, I think you or somebody else other not involved in the whole Richie/Luigi/Mikey/Rene mess of the past year or so should be the new or interim moderator.
TUE
I need to quit. I cant enjoy these boards any more. I have been doing these for 4 years now. I have not watched an episode for the first time and tried not to catch nits but to simply enjoy the episode. I have got to get out
Personally I think a lot of people need to do that.
I have to agree with Richie that watching the show just for nits kind of takes the fun out of it. Now that I really enjoy Enterprise, I don't really care about writing down nits -- I make mental notes and trust that the other posters will jog my memory, and hopefully I'll be able to include a little humor along the way. And if I forget a few.... (in Red Lectroid voice): "So what! Big deal!"
I never watch episodes for nits. Just if something catches my eye, I post it here. But I watch the episodes for the simple enjoyment.
Butch-
Please do not clump me in the "mess of the past year." First, I've been posting for considerably less than that. Second, I kept my opinions on the matter out of the boards and approached Richie directly, as he requested. It wasn't until my opinion led to my banishment that I posted on a more appropriate board. Should I be punished for that? (Not that I want to position anyway)
Hey richie just relax ok. things aint worth getting so uptight about. i mean I tuned into an enterprise episode to see what all the hype was about and was really disappointed. Some of them nits are big enough to fly the freaking ship through. Its like B&B just totally forgot about what the other shows established.Yes I realize that berman and Braga would be better than brannan and braga ok so i lost a few brain cells with the hair get over it. but throwing a fit because you think people don't like you over someone who posts long easy to read well reasoned thoughts aint the way to make friends and influence people. take some time off then come back when you feel better. as for how much i razzed you. Nothing serious ment by it. I mean its all fun and games til the balloon breaks! :-) :-)
My back-of-the-envelope theory of subspace radio: It simply allows a signal to pass between normal space and subspace. A transmission from a planet crosses the "barrier," is picked up by the nearest ship in subspace (i.e., at warp), and is relayed among all ships in subspace (something like cellular towers). The one nearest the intended receiver then transmits across the "barrier" into normal space.
Why do you have to be at warp to use it? How about: crossing the barrier so degrades the signal that only a massive, ground-based antenna array can originate/receive it. So you need to be either at warp or within radio range of a ground relay station.
Fleshed out, this could probably comport with subspace theory, but would likely be irreconcilable with canon. Suggestions?
Richie Vest: Good to have you back. I wasn't really pining for the job anyway. Just a guy willing to step in for the short term.
See ya later
TUE
Mikey, I didn't mean that you were part of the original disagreements, but rather that the situation with you being banned was part of group of things that lead to Richie's (temporary) resignation.
Sorta like a bad day where you spill coffee in your lap, you shut your car door on your hand, your girlfriend dumps you and you get passed over for a promotion. None of these events was caused by or related to the others, but they all make up part of a bad day.
Hope this makes clear what I originally was trying to say. Regardless, I'm sorry to have offended or angered you. I didn't mean to.
Peace.
Girlfriend? When did this happen?
No problem.
I just wanted to clarify as statements like yours often get misconstrued by people unfamiliar with the problem. Since I am probably perceived as a vocal, sometimes antagonistic, element of the boards, it wouldn't be difficult for someone to conclude that I was part of the problem rather than (in this case) an unwitting victim.