• Cold Front Board 2 December 11 - 5:32 pm

• Show Board 3 September 17 - 2:34 pm

TUE's Thoughts on the Suliban, Time Travel, and the Temporal Cold War.

Silik (played by John Fleck) sounds remarkably like F. Murray Abraham's character Ru'afo from Insurrection.

The summary for this episode states that Silik is able to change his appearance to blend in with the other lifeforms that come on board the Enterprise. This is consistent with the female Suliban's abilities seen in "Broken Bow" but this ability seems to give them the abilities of Changelings (or Camaloids at the very least)

This spy from the future claims that he comes from 900 years in the future. This would be from the 31st century. This is beyond even Captain Braxton's time period.

However, this does not mean that the person in Silik's chamber is from the 31st century. The same summary article also states that this spy is from one of the fronts of this temporal cold war. So one of the fronts of this war is the 31st century just like the 22nd century is also one of the fronts.

I like the idea of a Temporal Cold War. I don't think we've ever had a serious, drawn out time travel arc ever in any series. This could prove interesting

This aforementioned summary states that once this spy contacts Archer, T'Pol doesn't believe that he's from the future because according to Vulcans, time travel is impossible. (This is a great idea)

This concludes my thoughts.
This sounds like a good episode.

See ya later
TUE

I just got done watching it and I have to say it was a really good episode. One of the best episodes yet.

Silik (played by John Fleck) sounds remarkably like F. Murray Abraham's character Ru'afo from Insurrection.

The Suliban even LOOK like the Son'a.

On a somewhat related note, what is with the obsession of the creators in incerting apostrophes in all their alien-sounding names?

Well, unfortunately I just have one nit...

When Archer is taking the space tourists on a tour of the ship, and Phlox was showing them sickbay's imaging screen (where you go in the chamber, and it takes an image of your body...) he says "you'll be glad to know you're in perfect health."

But how does he know, if he's never seen these aliens before?

When both sides in a conflict start using temporal technology in a serious way, things must get awfully complicated. If both sides are actively trying to alter the past to bring about their preferred 'present' the results would be disjointed. I foresee a 31^st war zone that looks like two dueling Timeships (Year of Hell, VOY).

Perhaps that is why it is a Temporal Cold War. Both sides are afraid of the damage caused by that kind of radical approach. Both sides must have some form of 'temporal shielding' (for Anorax this was a side effect of the main weapon, in Federation Timeships have dedicated systems to protect internal chronology, and even Seven was able to rig an ad hoc temporal shield). MAD still applies if an enemy commando team survives to erase your civilization, too.

Both sides may be limiting their actions.

Well, that rambled, didn't it?

My favorite quote from Captain Janeway seems to apply:

"Ever since I joined Starfleet I promised myself that I'd never get caught up in one of those temporal paradoxes. The past is the future, the future is the past; it all gives me a headache."
Probably the smartest thing Captain Janeway ever said. :^)

I didn't get to see the first half of the episode, but from what I saw of the second half, this was a great episode. As I predicted above, the fact that Vulcans don't believe in time travel made the story even better.

John Fleck has such a great evil voice. He kinda reminds me of Wayne Pygram of Farscape. (Especially when he refers to Archer as John)

the alien stargazers looked a lot like Dr. Phlox.

Continuity bonus: Tucker mentions the holotechnology seen in "Unexpected"

Was the time traveller posing the ship's cook? I missed the first half but I caught a reference to him making the Captain's eggs soft. Maybe that Pecan Pie that he cooked up in "Breaking the Ice" was more than it appeared to be...

One possible nit: Shouldn't Archer have had a little more trouble than he did when Silik opened the shuttle doors? You know, like death or something?

That's all the notes I got. I'll probably be back with more on Sunday after I catch the rerun of the first half.

See ya later
TUE

It was just a trifle presumptuous for Archer to ask for Captain Fraddock's(sp?) name by saying "Mister …?". You never know with this new life you're seeking out.

Archer puts food in Porthos's bowl, and we see Porthos being too agitated to eat it. Then comes the confrontation with Silik. As Silik walks out, we see the bowl beside Archer's insensate body. It is empty. Either a nit, or Porthos sure lost his anxiety fast. (From experience, I will admit that dogs can be like that.)

The star in the nursery is supposed to be giving off jets of neutrons, but when we see it erupt, they look like the kinds of flares and prominences our star has. Those are bursts of ionized particles(hence the glow). Neutrons are electrically neutral, and would not react the same way.

Maybe I forgot something from "Broken Bow", but how would Archer know that Suliban get genetic enhancements as rewards? The teaser in this episode was our clue. Did Archer learn it from the Shadowy Guy, and I forgot it(at least in this timeline)?

How does Silik fall in outer space? I'm guessing he got some velocity from the moment he was falling inside Enterprise's artificial-gravity field, but would he have been moving that fast from that brief acceleration?

The line of dialogue about Enterprise having been underway for four months, three weeks, and six days lets us put a date to this episode. The first starlog in "Broken Bow" was for April 16, 2151, but they had been underway for a short while, so I say backdate that one day. Working from that, this episode has a date of … September 11, 2151.

Darn. I was hoping they would have an acknowledgement of the anniversary that didn't require doing the math myself.

There is a sneaky 47. Daniels uses that walk-through-walls device to repair J37 (I'm not sure if that is the section or the conduit). J is the tenth letter in the English alphabet. J+37=47.

Silik saves the ship by pulling out a conduit. You would think that Trip and Star Fleet engineering would know about this "feature" considering that this is a human-designed engine and it would prevent a catastrophic disaster. Why didn't Trip think about yanking the wire when the cascade began? And if he didn't know, why didn't he know? The consoles are supposed to explode, not the ship. ;-)

The Vulcans don't have any evidence that time travel could exist, eh? Guess the Enterprise did an excellent job hiding their tracks in "First Contact".

T'Pol asks why Daniels couldn't just go back one day and prevent what happened before. If she had been using her famed logic, she may have considered that with both sides using time travel, going back one day isn't so simple. The timeline can change and the other side can always go back another day. It becomes a cat and mouse game where you must pick your spots.

On the other hand, Daniels sure brought a lot of technology from the future. You would think they would take precautions to avoid them falling into the wrong hands. For instance, if Daniels doesn't give a code in 24 hours, they self-destruct ala Mission Impossible. I wonder...

While the scene with Archer not getting sucked/blown out into space seems like a nit, and contradicts a lot of other stuff we see about space, it is actually one of the widely held theories about rapid depressurization.

While Archer surviving is likely, I would think it would be much more violent than what we saw and Archer opening the launchbay control room door seemed kinda unlikely to me. I would think closing the launch doors would be the better solution. But all in all, I thought that it was nice to see a different portrayal of depressurization.

"The Vulcans don't have any evidence that time travel could exist, eh? Guess the Enterprise did an excellent job hiding their tracks in "First Contact"."

That had better be a comment and not a nit.

I apologize for any repeated nits.

Well, that was a good show!

I typed my above comment (about Phlox's line during the tour) in between commercials, so I now have some more things to say.

Did anyone else think, "Go get help, Lassie!" when Porthos goes to look at the unconscious Archer?

Some of the words of the chant that Phlox leads in the mess hall sounded really familiar. Are they part of any actual language?

And is the android movie that Tucker mentioned a real movie? (I realize if it isn't, the antinit will be that it must have come out sometime between now and their time...just curious.)

I like how Phlox is turning out.

NANJAO: of course, speech patterns cannot be nitted, since that's individual, but T'Pol's "should we go after them?" sounded un-Vulcan to me. I, personally, would have expected "should we pursue?"

After Daniels showed Archer the picture of some of his colleagues watching the construction of the pyramids at Giza, I was kind of hoping to see some picture of some of them observing an event from TOS...but of course, Daniels would never have shown it to Archer. Just wishing.

TUE, I agree with you about the stargazers looking like Phlox. They even sounded like him at some points to me.

Well, that's all from me. I'll leave the serious nitpicking to the rest of you.

Well, it didn't take that long for "Enterprise" to get a case of the "Voyager-not-at-warp" disease. In an opening scene, when Daniels is serving the captain breakfast, he asks if there has been a course change. It would be hard to notice. The stars seen through the window are basically motionless. The implication is that Enterprise has not yet arrived at the destination, and going at impulse, it's not going to arrive for some time.

Daniels sure had a particular way of dying, or at least the special effects were a little peculiar. It makes me wonder if he really died.

I did wonder about the decompression scene. I agree that a few seconds exposure to decompression likely would not have killed Archer, but he was lucky that he managed to hold on to the railing. It was no surprise that he lost the device Daniels used to go out of phase and walk through walls (but not through floors, how convenient). Did Silik managed to recover the damanged device he stole from Daniels' quarters, or was that left on board for the crew to investigate? In addition, I think there should be failsafes to prevent the shuttlebay doors from opening while the bay is pressurized, and if not that, then controls inside the shuttlebay to control the doors and the pressurization system. Wouldn't the bridge become aware of the doors opening and override whatever command opened them? Why didn't Silik simply beam over to his ship. Surely, he has that technology.

This alleged "plume of (whatever)" was not at all impressive, surely not enough to initially attract the interest of some race, which had to have seen it from their home planet to become initially interested. Maybe this one was just a rather weak one.

A very good all around episode. Every character had a good moment, for the first time since "Broken Bow." I liked Mayweather's brief stint in the captain's chair.

The movie they watched seems to indicate that science fiction, in some form, will survive after deep space exploration and contact with aliens. Yee-haw!

Let's examine the impetus for this episode. Apparently Silik's task was to steal Daniels' fancy device (which he failed to do). Okay... but why does Daniels need to be on Enterprise in the first place? He was sent there just to apprehend Silik? This seems extemely circular; I'm starting to sympathize with Janeway. Am I missing something?

Porthos' best moment of the season, although running to the tree in "Strange New World" was also good. A definite Lassie moment.

With all the fuss they made about the flare, we never saw it!

Major creepiness factor with that final shot of Daniels' room. I hope they pick that thread up somewhere along the line, although I didn't really agree with Archer in this case. If Daniels really did leave behind anything else, I'd want to find it ASAP, get it back to Starfleet, and have them start working on it in order to reverse engineer it.

Oh, and what happened to Daniels' handy walk-through-walls device? Did it get sucked into space? Something must have happened to it, as we haven't seen any inklings of similar technology in the other Treks.

Conviently, the device I mentioned above lets people walk through walls, but they don't fall through the floor.

My nits, thoughts, and nitting the nitpickers:

It was Travis griping about the movie, not Tucker.

The futuristic brass knuckles was indeed lost in space. Archer lost a grip on the railing and the decompression pulled the device off his hand and out the doors.

Robert Duncan McNeill (as we all know) played Tom Paris on Voyager. Seems to me that if you had a part on one of the shows, you get to direct...Frakes, Burton, Dawson, etc...I vote we start our own Star Trek series so we can direct! (Star Trek: Nitpickers? At least we wouldn't do something that requires nitpicking!)

Porthos is having a fit when Archer first walks in. As soon as Silik appears, Porthos is awfully quiet. Wouldn't a dog continue to bark and whine and growl? Maybe try to bite Silik? Now there's a mental picture!

If Daniels has been on the ship the entire time, why didn't he try to apprehend Silik in the pilot?

I like how Archer was very polite with Daniels when his breakfast was brought. But I still don't like his voice projection when he's on the bridge talking to alien cultures. He reminds me of the idiots who talk slowly and loudly to foreigners, like a higher volume will make things so much clearer.

I wasn't quite sure why Travis was so embarrassed about being in the chair when Reed returned. He was told he had the bridge, so what was up with that? No one has a fit when T'Pol takes over the chair.

From the indications in tbe dialog, it seems to me that despite the fact that Hoshi and Travis are both ensigns, Travis actually has rank over Hoshi. Seniority?

I wonder if we'll ever seen any yeomans who bring the captain data padds to initial and cups of coffee?

I'm done rambling. Time for a shower and bed.

Wow! This was a fun hour. Suspension. Mystery. Action. This is the kind of TV I really like. I also liked how bits from previous episodes were incorporated (the Xyrillians, the helix). The storyline of the Temporal Cold War is sure to be full of twists and turns, and deliberately confusing. But it’s still cool.

Nits and notes:

-- After Archer tests the device that lets him walk through the walls, Reed hands him a phaser. How could Reed do this if Archer were in a phased state?

-- When Archer fought Silik between the walls (or wherever), I thought the background music was vaguely reminiscent of the fight music from the original series.

-- Archer’s ability to handle the decompression from the bay doors being opened didn’t seem realistic. There are so many factors that could have caused Archer severe damage or death. Sudden cold. Severe pressure drop. At least some of Archer’s blood vessels burst.

Also, remember TNG’s “Naked Now.” A hatch was opened on the bridge of a science ship, and the force of the air rushing into the vacuum of space pushed everyone out. And seeing Silik jump into space wasn’t really that cool an escape. We saw that trick in “Broken Bow.”

-- Trip and T’Pol are going to end up together. Just call it a hunch.

-- Since there has been speculation that the people helping the Suliban are Romulans, I deliberately looked at the Shadow Man’s ears when he was onscreen. I couldn’t tell if they were pointed. It seemed they were being deliberately obscured.

-- A lot has been made about religion in Star Trek. It was interesting to see Christianity get a mention from Phlox. I was disappointed, however, in Archer’s response that he has an “open mind” toward religion.

But, at the end of the show, when Archer orders Daniels’ quarters sealed, he said, “God only knows what else might be there.” Considering how he paused after, I think it was intentional.

The timeline can change and the other side can always go back another day. It becomes a cat and mouse game where you must pick your spots

Also known as "Bill and Ted Syndrome" (I just made that term up!)

Re: Archer talking loud and slowly. I tend to do that on speakerphones. Maybe the audio pickups on the bridge aren't the best?

I liked the decompression scene. As I understand it, that was fairly accurate. Especially the way that Archer's voice was very raspy afterwards, as though the vocal cords were strained by the escaping air.

What I really liked was that it was unclear who were the good guys... Why *DID* Silik save the Enterprise?

The scene at the end, just with the music and the door seal was excellent. Reminded me of the final scene of "Conspiracy" (TNG).

Anyone else get a kick out of Scott Bakula showing a bit of incredulity at time travel? (I forget the exact dialog, but it was with Daniels in his quarters).

What was it that Phlox said he celebrated at the Vulcan Embassy? I thought he might have said Tal-Shiar which would be odd since I believe that is the name of the Romulan secret police.

My nephew thought that Daniels was giving away too much information about the future when Daniels was telling Trip about where he came from. Although I didn't think he really was that clear. ("I come from a place called Illinois." "Depends on what you call Earth.")

Some have wondered about the dephasing device that allows people to walk through walls, but not fall through floors. Maybe it only allowed people to pass through the things that were 'touched' first by the hand wearing the device? Both Daniels & Archer reached out to the walls they passed through before stepping through.

So the first redshirt to die on the show is from the 31st century? Maybe the writer was a LICC fan?

Lot of unanswered questions with the timeline. Perhaps they were hoping this episode would be sponsered by an aspirin manufacturer?
I thought it odd that Daniels asked if the ship had changed direction. I wondered if this indicated that this was a change in the timeline.
Silik saving the ship was odd. Did this mean that Enterprise was supposed to explode? And if it was supposed to explode, then why was Daniels STILL on the ship? Then again maybe Silik rigged it to cascade & then be stopped so he could tell Archer that he saved the ship & strengthen his claim that the other side weren't the good guys?

Maybe Daniels tried to destroy the ship because the Enterprise was never supposed to launch in the original timeline? I mean, their first mission did take place because of Future Guy's interference.

I wonder if any of the Trek movies are in Enterprise's movie database.

Dr. Phlox: "I strained a leg muscle."

Hey, its hard enough keeping up with the physics technobabble without throwing in this complicated medical jargon.

Again with the weeks!
Plumitarian pilgrim: "How long have you been in space?"
Archer: "Four months, three weeks, and six days."
Pilgrim: "And how many people are in your crew?"
Archer: "Three score, one dozen, two pairs, and one."
Pilgrim: "So how long is this ship anyway?"
Archer: "One furlong, six chains, nine cubits, and four shoe sizes."

I was also suprised about Phlox's statement that he celebrated a holiday at the Vulcan Embassy. He apparently either celebrated Tal Shiar, the Romulan Secret Service, (as Keith Morgan said) or he participated in Tal Shaya, the ritual Vulcan homicide by neck snap (see the TOS episode Babel). In either case he should be arrested.

I've been at this keyboard for 58 minutes and 47 seconds -- in other words -- almost an hour! Archer couldn't say "almost five months"? I can see that precision from T'Pol, but......

Archer tells the captain (or the other way around), the plume is due to erupt "tomorrow". Is there a galactic universal ship's time that we don't know about? On a ship without sunrise and sunset, how long is it until tomorrow, anyway? I think "due to erupt in about 12 hours" a better expression. (Lots of time thought going on here!)

I would have like to see Porthos try to bit Silik after he shot Archer, or grab on to his ankle so Silik has to shake him off.

As soon as Travis took the chair, I mistied "Let's see how fast we can get this thing!" I'm glad they did it in a way, with the "Wanna fire a torpedo?" line.

What was the name of the movie? "Night of the Killer Androids"? Sounds like almost as cheesy a title as "Attack of the Clones".

If I were about to experience a profound religious/spiritual undertaking, I don't think I'd give the important words to a guy who just learned them.

Is it true that there are no new Enterprise shows until January 23????

Okay, when I saw the hand thing fly into space I thought it was his phaser. So what happened to his phaser?

Regarding just what Phlox did with the Vulcans, remember that at this time, we don't know anything about the Romulans! So "Tal Shiar" could mean something completely different to the Vulcans.

I don't know about until January 23, but there's certainly no new ep next week!

Yes the next new episdoe of Enterprise will not take place until January 23, 2002

Sparrow, it also fell into space. I saw two separate things fall at different times.

I wonder what happened to Daniels' roommate. Was he told his room was being sealed? Or did he just find out about it after his shift. Maybe he was still inside!

They had technical difficulties up here with the
first 15 minutes after the opener so they showed
about 5 minutes of....ACK...UGH...Oprah!

For what it's worth I tended to believe Silik
instead of Daniels for the following reasons:

1.Silik had at least two chances to kill Archer,
but he didn't in fact all he did in the first time
was just stun him.
2.Silik was the one who placed the junction in the
warp drive to divert the anti-matter cascade and
stop the ship from blowing up.
3.Daniels only said that he was there to stop
Silik from altering history,he never mentioned what would happen IF Silik DID succeed in his
mission.
4.Daniels only claimed to be from 900 years in
the future,even if he was telling the truth it
doesn't PROVE he was on the right side of the
Temporal Cold War.
5.The best way to disarm an enemy is to pose as
a friend,which Daniels certainly did.

Betcha that they're gonna have troubles with the
contents of Daniels quarters some time between now
and Year 7!

Josh G: ***On a somewhat related note, what is with the obsession of the creators in incerting apostrophes in all their alien-sounding names? ***

Named aliens of Enterprise thus far:

T'Pol, Phlox, Klaang, Soval, Tos, Ah'Len, Trena'l, Shran, Tholos, Keval, Thon, Vanik, Riaan, Garos, Prah Mantoos, Sonsorra.

Of that list, 3 have apostrophes. This hardly qualifies as an obsession.


muas: ***When Archer is taking the space tourists on a tour of the ship, and Phlox was showing them sickbay's imaging screen (where you go in the chamber, and it takes an image of your body...) he says "you'll be glad to know you're in perfect health."

But how does he know, if he's never seen these aliens before? ***

Just because Phlox has never seen one before, doesn't mean that there isn't information on the species in the database. It *was* a space-faring culture. Phlox had never seen a Suliban before in the pilot, but he knew enough about them to determine their genetic enhancements.


SMT: ***How does Silik fall in outer space? I'm guessing he got some velocity from the moment he was falling inside Enterprise's artificial-gravity field, but would he have been moving that fast from that brief acceleration? ***

Presumably, Silik was travelling at whatever his speed of descent was when he fell out of Enterprise's gravity field, a gravity field that could (conceivably) extend for some distance outside the ship.


supercooladdict: ***While Archer surviving is likely, I would think it would be much more violent than what we saw and Archer opening the launchbay control room door seemed kinda unlikely to me. I would think closing the launch doors would be the better solution. ***

I just assumed Archer was looking for the quickest access to air and pressure possible. The control room, being a much smaller space would be quicker to pressurize.


Sparrow47: ***Conviently, the device I mentioned above lets people walk through walls, but they don't fall through the floor. ***

Well, of what use would the device be if when you activated it, you fell through the floor and out the lower bulkhead of the ship? Presumably, the device allows you to control what is tangible and what isn't and when (Reed is able to hand him a phaser).


Trike: ***Archer’s ability to handle the decompression from the bay doors being opened didn’t seem realistic. There are so many factors that could have caused Archer severe damage or death. Sudden cold. Severe pressure drop. At least some of Archer’s blood vessels burst. ***

There is a popular misconception that a vacuum will destroy a human body. Our bodies are designed to equalize its internal pressure with the environment (while certainly not to extreme pressures). Further, the atmospheric pressure on Earth is not *that* much above a vacuum. The Apollo vessels had walls as thin as tin foil in some places, they didn't explode (and believe me that tin foil is much more fragile than human skin). As for intense cold, it would take some time for this to take place. Archer could easily have been kept warm by his own internal temperature for the brief amount of time he was exposed to the cold. Plus, the area of space he was in could have held matter or some form of atmosphere that raised the temperature above the normal temperature of the vacuum of deep space. His only real danger was of passing out from not intaking oxygen.


KAM: ***What was it that Phlox said he celebrated at the Vulcan Embassy? ***

Tal-Shanar

Frank: I believe Archer's order specified that Daniels' roommate move out before the quarters were sealed.

I think maybe Porthos stopped growling after Silik appeared because he could now see him. He may have been growling because he wasn't sure what his other senses were telling him, since he couldn't se anything. Of course, I'm no expert on the thoughts of dogs! I agree, it would have been cool to have him attack Silik.

I didn't get to see all of this yet, but the last half an hour was good, except for the bad Voyager flashbacks I kept getting.

After Daniels got killed I watched with horror as Archer pulled out the hand held phase shifter. "Oh no!" I thought, another story line where time travel results in future technology being left behind to change the lives of the present day crew. Then I figured they had to find a way to NOT let that happen. Well, they found a way. When his hand came off that railing and the device was blown out into space, it seemed to me that the writers were looking for ANY excuse to get that thing off the ship. Then at the end, they still left open the possibility that something from the future may have been left behind.

I would just REALLY like to see this series go in different directions than the previous ones. Is that so much to ask?

I thought of something: Silik did prevent the destruction of the Enterprise! Now did Daniels come from a future in which this Enterprise was destroyed? If so, every episode of this show from this point on is in a changed timeline.

Ah, but if Daniels' device is really that sensitive, Mikey, I think it would be much more difficult to operate. All Archer seemingly has to do is turn it on.

I only remember clearly seeing one thing fall into space, and it looked like the phaser. Obviously, I need to pay more attention!

I'm getting the impression from this whole temporal cold war that the writers are going to pull an alternate reality thing on us. Maybe even go as far as making it the time travel equivalent of "It was all a dream!" I mean, obviously, if the war is using the 22nd century as a front, there has to be some serious temporal damage already. As someone suggested, perhaps Enterprise wasn't supposed to launch when it did. Perhaps it was destroyed before it could do anything important in the uncorrupted timeline, making it a footnote in history. Thus the absence of its model in the ready room in trek I (that is where that scene is from, right?).

My personal wacky prediction: The resolution to the temporal cold war is the "good guys" will win, and go about erasing almost all of the changes. At some point, it will be revealed that Enterprise was supposed to have been destroyed. However, one of the things they will leave in tact is Enterprise, in gratitude for its (no doubt) instrumental role in their victory. They may remove the cold war's influence on Enterprise, but still allow it to exist.

"Look there goes the bad guy in a little ship. Should we go after them?"

"No let them go"

Why, why why. It reminds me of the Simpsons when a mob was going to lynch Bart, and Homer rescued him in a car attached to a parade float. "Oh no they're slowly getting away!!"

Silik boarded the ship in disguise, shot the captain, shot some guy who said he was from the future and beat up Archer. You'd think Enterprise might want to go after him so that he couldn't come and do that again.

Speaking of technology left behind, all the gadgets we saw were nicely taken care of by being hit by a phaser or blown into space. But how about the modifications to the sensors. That might have involved some future technologies or methods, and Enterprise still has them.

I think Archer let the Sulliban go because he knew they had failed, so he didn't need to risk anything else.

Pulling an "alternate universe" or "this never really happened" would be incredibly lame.

think Archer let the Sulliban go because he knew they had failed, so he didn't need to risk anything else.

Also because possibly he wasn't sure any more who the "bad guys" are. As I posted above, I really liked that aspect of this episode.

I couldn't quite figure out Archer letting the Suliban go either. He did the same thing with the bad guys from "Civilization" and the Naussicans in "Favorite Son"

Then I started thinking. The Suliban have advanced technology from the future. It is possible that:
A: Archer didn't want to endanger the observers.
B: Archer wanted to confer with Starfleet before bringing in people involved in time travel crimes.
C: Archer isn't sure that Silik is the bad guy.

Only time will tell.

I think that when we watched "Star Trek" through "Star Trek: Voyager", we were watching the ultimately restored timeline. All I'm saying is that I don't believe that anything we are seeing in "Enterprise" affects the events of the previous series in any way. When you watch the Original Series, you are watching the outcome of the events occuring in "Enterprise"

Now since these temporal changes were supposed to occur, questioning whether the Enterprise was supposed to be destroyed in the "original" timeline is a moot point. History was meant to occur with the time alterations in it. The "original" timeline ceased to exist the moment the first time traveller (whoever it was) first showed up in the 22nd century.

For example: Think of the episode "Yesterday's Enterprise." In the original timeline, Yar is born on some planet. Some years later, Yar is killed by Armus. End of story. In the restored timeline, the same stuff happens, but there is also another Yar in the galaxy that didn't exist in the original timeline (which violates the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy but that's a problem with all time travel stories). This Yar was in the Romulan Empire and raised Sela. This raises all kinds of questions like whether we were watching the original or the restored timeline in the first 2 seasons of TNG. Once Yar returned to the battle at Narendra III, the original timeline ceased to exist 20 some years before the Enterprise-D was launched.

TIME PARADOXES! AREN'T THEY FUN??

I have no idea if my above ramblings make any sense. I usually have one of these time discussions with myself every time one of these episodes pops up.

See ya later
TUE

TUE- I see what you're trying to say about Yar and the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy, but I don't think that was a violation. Why? Let's call the Universe where she originated (the one with the war with the Klingons) Universe A, and the supposedly "restored" timeline Universe B. When Tasha goes back into time, a seperate universe is supposedly created where she doesn't exist, hence the violation, but she isn't going into Universe B, she's going into the past of Universe A, thus she's not adding anything that wouldn't/shouldn't be there.

I think.

"I hate temporal mechanics!"

I don't think the law of conservation of mass/energy really applies once you throw time travel into the mix. The law applies to a closed system. The total of mass and energy of a closed system is constant. The universe with time travel is no longer a closed system at any given time, since there is a means by which mass and/or energy can enter and leave. Thus, the law no longer applies.

From the "It’s like talking to Lassie" File:
Great Exchange (Act 2):
T’Pol: "There’s a difference between keeping an open mind and believing something because you want it to be true."
Trip: "What the hell’s that supposed to mean?"

---Notes: For the most part, I liked this episode! It was nice to see, with the return of the Suliban, Silik and Future Guy, that the creators seem to have a plan for this series apart from self-contained episodes. The Temporal Observatory was of course, INCREDIBLE, mostly because it was the first time such elaborate visual effects were used in a Trek episode outside of the movies. The episode was suspenseful, never letting me know what would happen next. Silik is shaping up to be a villain you both love to hate, and yet don’t know whose side he’s one. I was surprised to see the villain of the episode kill a good guy and get away with it. The closing shot focusing on the lock on Daniel’s quarters was a nice touch, and the music in the shot was very effective. T’Pol’s skepticism in Act 2 about the notion of time travel was reasonable, and kudos to the creators for having Trip mention that the Xyrillian holography he encountered in Unexpected was on a par with what Archer experienced. This indicates to me that the creators are going to a better job with continuity.
---I also think the time travel element in this arc should be considered by those who think Enterprise stories are somehow "moot" because we know what happens in the future. First, I never bought into this theory. It sounded a lot like those who criticized DS9 because "they didn’t go anywhere" or those who criticized Voyager because they didn’t run into Romulans and Klingons as often as NextGen, and it misses the point. The psychological reasons why people enjoy well-told stories cut far deeper than things like whether a show is set on a station, or in the Delta Quadrant, or whether we know what happens 200 years in the future. They succeed because the story can affect us, and because we come to care about the characters, and besides, didn’t we know that the Federation wouldn’t collapse by the end of DS9, and that Voyager would make it home? But second, and perhaps more interestingly, the fact that characters from at least two different points in the future are travelling back to 2151 raises all sorts of story possibilities: Will anything change? Will the events as we know them from Trek history not unfold as we thought? Will the creators, perhaps, use this to perhaps fix certain things that the fans have been clamoring for, like bringing back Kirk, or fixing the huge plot holes and continuity errors from Voyager, and that ship’s numerous encounters with the Borg? The point is, we don’t know everything that will happen in the future. Knowing the creators, they’ll probably play it safe, but might they just tweak a few things here and there? Time will tell.
---I did have two complaints. First, the episode left a lot of confusing questions unanswered, and I’m not sure if these questions were intentional, or if the creators simply didn’t consider some of them, and that therefore, they’re just plot holes. Was Daniels really from 900 years in the future? Since we saw that Silik did prevent the antimatter cascade, why was Daniel sent to stop him? (More on that later.) Hopefully, some of these questions will be answered in the future, but it was still a good episode that kept me entertained.
---Second, I’m disappointed that the creators seem to go out of their way to avoid religion among the captains. Nothing was ever mentioned about Kirk and Picard regarding religion (except that we know Picard celebrates Christmas, as seen in ST Generations). Sisko was unclear. He told Alixus in Paradise(DS9) that one day she might feel the hand of God on her shoulder, but when Kilanna asked him at the end of The Ship(DS9) if he had gods, he merely said that there were "things" he believed in. Janeway was a true scientist, and apparently, an agnostic, as indicated in Sacred Ground(VOY) and Coda(VOY). When the second Agosorian spiritualist asks Archer in Act 1 if he follows a particular faith, Archer replies, "I guess you could say I try to keep an open mind", very similar to Sisko’s latter statement. It’s not that I think characters have to be religious or anything, but I wish the creators didn’t seem so terrified of at least one captain having such beliefs, especially since the promotion of diversity has always been a staple of Trek.

---Travis and Hoshi establish in the beginning of Act 1 that there is a public
screening room on the Enterprise for the crew’s enjoyment, with 50,000 movies in stock.
---We got our first look at standard crewmen’s quarters in Act 2.
---We learn that—supposedly—Future Guy’s people come from a time period significantly earlier than 900 years in the future, according to Daniels in Act 2. Could it be—oh, I don’t know—210, maybe 220 years in the future?
---Trip tells Daniels in Act 3 that they have a betting pool on how far the Enterprise will travel each day.
---We learn the Enterprise doesn’t have anything that produces tachyons, as Silik says in Act 3.
---I also think that Porthos’ reaction to Silik’s presence in Archer’s quarters in Act 3 is the first time we hear the little guy bark.
---Special Note: Since the episode doesn’t name the alien species in this episode (Reed actually uses the term "these species" in Act 1), I will refer to them simply as the "Agosorians" for the sake of clarity.

---Continuity Nods: Ship decks have always been numbered in future Trek, but it appears they’re lettered in 2151: Reed refers to "C Deck" in Act 1, as does Daniels later in Act 3.

---Terms:
"Night of the Killer Androids" one of the 50,000 movies in the ship’s database. Travis saw it the night before the episode.
Captain Fraddock captain of the Agosorian ship.
Prah Mantoos leader of the alien spiritualists.
Agosorian clock transparent mounted disc which Prah Mantoos gives Archer when he comes aboard the Enterprise, which he says charts time from the beginning of the universe.
The Great Plume of Agosoria a neutron blast that occurs every 11 years from one of the protostars in the stellar nursery, seen by the alien spiritualists as representing the "Cycle of Renewal", or the continuing cycle of creation. Agosoria is referred to as a male by Prah Mantoos in Act 1.
The Time of Agosoria the holy time leading up the Great Plume, which is marked by fasting.
Voo-Sinteel an Agosorian spirit traditionally consumed as the Plume reaches its full brilliance, thought to enhance the enjoyment of it.
antimatter junction connects the primary antimatter feed to the ship’s warp reactor.
Temporal Observatory a holographic map of the timeline, which spans as far back as
Vulcan Science Directorate agency which T’Pol says has considered the notion of time travel, and can find no evidence that it exists, or can exist.
"Roga durana tua teenan" traditional greeting on the morning of Agosoria, which Phlox recites to Archer in Act 3. It means, "May the Plume light your way."
Kaana-sah a series of Agosorian exercises designed to purify the body, which Phlox participated in on the Agosorian ship.
J-37 power relay section of Main Engineering damaged by the antimatter cascade in Act 1, which Daniels repairs in Act 3 with his "phase gauntlet."
The Great Temporal Accord presumably an agreement among the races that belong to the temporal enforcement organization Daniels belongs to not to use time travel to alter history.
Invocation of Renewal prayer recited on the day of Agosoria, which Phlox recites in Act 3.

Consider this: The Mystery Man is actually helping Enterprise, manipulating it toward a future event that will lead to his side winning the Temporal Cold War.

1. The attempt to break apart the Klingon Empire was really a gambit so Klaang would crash-land on Earth, causing Enterprise to be launched early.

Perhaps in an unaltered timeline, the ship’s regularly scheduled launch would have led to missions and encounters that made it unprepared for this future event. Originally, Enterprise would have started its exploration from Earth, but it ended up starting from the Klingon homeworld.

2. Another faction in the Temporal Cold War created the lightning bolts (or whatever) that would have destroyed Enterprise ... if the Mystery Man hadn’t sent to Silik to prevent it.

The Mystery Man continued using Silik after “Broken Bow.” So he wasn’t outraged at the mission’s failure. He also didn’t insist on revenge against Enterprise. Maybe he anticipated Silik would fail, or wanted him to.

3. Enterprise was attacked by the Mystery Man’s enemies, to destroy the ship and prevent this future event.

If this pans out, don’t be surprise if the Mystery Man turns out to be a benefactor to Enterprise. The Mystery Man does have some explaining to do about how he is using the Suliban, but it might have its ends.

Now, about Daniels:

Whether the faction that attacked Enterprise is the same one that Daniels is part of is questionable. If he was on their side, then his mission to capture Silik should have meant capturing Silik before he prevented Enterprise's destruction. But he first mentioned Silik after the ship had been saved. Regardless, and as other posters have noted, Daniels’ desire to win the crew’s trust could mean he’s deceiving them.

Other observations:

-- If T'Pol is so certain that time travel isn't possible, then why didn't she rebuff Archer when he learned about the Temporal Cold War in "Broken Bow"?

-- Thanks for the clarification, Mikey. I wasn’t certain about the effects of decompression, so I was skeptical.

-- I've been trying to determine what "Cold Front" means. Any suggestions?

Trike: -- "I've been trying to determine what "Cold Front" means. Any suggestions?"

I may not be putting enough thought into it, but offhand I thought it was a play on words. "Cold" refers to the temporal cold war, while "front" refers to the fact the the 22nd century is one of the front lines for this war. Put them together and you get a condensed way of saying "front lines of a cold war," plus it doubles as a weather term.

I have to admit, I was impressed by this one. First a few nits/comments.

About Porthos biting Silik, that might be a loyal and fatal idea. He might have skin glands that make his taste terrible if not downright poisoness.

If Daniels wanted to prove that he was from the future I could have seen him proving time travel in one of two possable ways. On, getting T'Pol off to the side to get her to give him a mindmeld, though if he's not one of the good guys that wouldn't be acceptable. Though he could also cite some previous occurances of Federation time travel. "... And then in 1986 aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise the Marine detachment captured one Pavel Chekov from the 24th century...."

Well, if Silik is going to 'take out a domino' to prevent the ship's destruction, why not take it out closer to the point of origin. Though if 'they' have the ability to hit the Enterprise with the ion bolt, having it do enough damage to effect the Enterprise down the road without outright destroying it might be useful.

Well, if Archer/Earth/the Federation find the/another phase device, it might go a long way to explaining the development of the U.S.S. Pegasus.


Next time on "Enterprise"
Daniel's roommate: "Alright, everything's ready to move." *tries door* "Uh-oh. Hey guys, I'm locked in here. Come on, this isn't funny! Captain? Commander Tucker? Mayweather? Anybody? Let me out! Wait a minute..... what's that?" *ZOT!!!*

.....all sorts of story possibilities: Will anything change? Will the events as we know them from Trek history not unfold as we thought?......

Anyone have the feeling that, at the end of the series, they're going to hit the "REALLY BIG RESET BUTTON"? (Not that I'd mind, as long as the stories continue to be well told.)

The 22nd century equivalent of having a vasectomy in San Francisco or Tokyo
Is it really necessary for the procedure Future Guy has performed on Silik in the teaser to be done in the temporal communication chamber? Couldn’t Future Guy simply give the instructions to the Suliban physicians, or use some kind of relay to send them into a normal room? Do you really want someone tinkering around inside your body when their entire body is strobing?
Well, at least he’s not asking to pull over to use rest stop bathroom every light year
When serving Archer breakfast in the beginning of Act 1, Daniels tells Archer that he noticed they changed course, and asks why. As I asked under nits for Strange New World, why aren’t the lower crewman appraised of new courses and missions?
They had some gang members on board to get all the hand signals right
These "Agosorians", as I shall call them, are apparently a new species, but Hoshi is not needed to translate their language, and the universal translator is able to translate Captain Fraddock’s language instantly, with no "translation matrix lag time."
To get revenge, when people ask what’s on their plate, Chef will repsond, "Whatchamacallit", with a side order of "Youknowwhat", and "Beatsthehellouttame" for desert.
Again, the Chef is denied a name, when Archer tells on the bridge in Act 1, "Tell Chef to prepare something", as if "Chef" is his name.
I guess to the creators, antimatter doesn’t matter
The part that Silik breaks in Engineering, the antimatter junction, prevents the antimater cascade from reaching the warp reactor. Does this mean antimatter passes through that thing? How could it do this, given that that junction is made of normal matter? Supposedly, antimatter has to be kept in magnetic storage pods, as seen in The Apple(TOS) and Resolutions(VOY). If that junction did include some type of magnetic field, how could Silik have broken it so easily? And if antimatter does go through it, then wouldn’t that antimatter have simply leaked out of that broken junction, come into contact with the normal matter of that section of Engineering, and blown the ship to bits?
Somebody pass me the Tylenol
And if both Future Guy and Daniels are from the future, and knew of the antimatter cascade, does that mean our beloved NX-01 was supposed to explode, and that history as Kirk, Picard, Sisko and Janeway know it recorded Archer’s mission as ending in the tragic loss of all aboard just five months into it? Is that why they’ve never mentioned it—because it was so short it never distinguished itself to the degree of legend? And if Daniels knew of it, then why was he so surprised when the ship started shaking in the plasma storm? Wouldn’t he have known about it, and for that matter, put himself in peril by being on the Enterprise at that point in history? And if he was sent to stop Silik, then does that mean that Daniels had to ensure that the Enterprise was destroyed? If so, why was he not around to make sure Silik didn’t break the antimatter junction?
Well, the Enterprise’s butter churn was being used at the time
After explaining everything to Archer in his quarters in Act 2, Daniels tells him that to find Silik, he wants to tie the Enterprise’s sensor grid into his sensor device. Does anyone else find it difficult to believe that you could enhance a sensor device by tying it in to the sensor grid of a NINE HUNDRED YEAR-OLD ship?
Okay, smart guy, can you NAME THE CHICKEN they came from?
When Archer asks Daniels why he should trust him, Daniels replies that Archer likes his scrambled eggs soft, and asks if he’s ever brought them any other way. First of all, Archer indicated that a crewman named Taylor was his regular breakfast steward, not him.
Yeah, really. Luckily, the real reason Archer trusted him was because his daily horoscope told him to.
Second, does anyone else find this a laughable reason for Daniels to give as to why Archer should trust him?
Nah, he’s too busy putting important stuff there, like how Archer likes his scrambled eggs
Daniels also tells Archer that to modify the sensors, he’ll need access to Main Engineering, and Archer’s command codes. Given the level of detail he has about everything in this time period, shouldn’t he already have them in his storage device?
He let Porthos test it (And you thought that dog only had a thing for cheese)
While Archer fills in Trip and T’Pol about what Daniels told him, Archer pours himself and Trip some of the voo-sinteel the Agosorians gave them. First of all, Phlox has gone over to the Agosorian ship. Did he scan the liquor beforehand to make sure it was safe to drink?
Now we know how they put up with T’Pol
Second, the second Agosorian who gave it to Trip said it was traditionally drank during the Great Plume to enhance the experience. Shouldn’t Archer and Trip wait until then to open it up?
Too bad Daniels got killed. We never got to see plans C through Z.
In the beginning of Act 3, T’Pol asks Trip why, if Daniels can really travel through time, did he not simply travel back a day earlier than he did, and prevent Silik from boarding the ship. Trip says maybe that was Plan B. Huh? Excuse me, but if you want to prevent a certain event from happening, the earlier you go back the better. Making sure Silik didn’t board the ship made it far more likely that the supposed event wouldn’t occur. Allowing him to come aboard made it harder to prevent. Waiting until the event is almost upon you is not the tactically best plan. Going back to prevent his boarding should’ve been Plan A, and if that failed, what Daniels actually did should’ve been Plan B.
He still did a better job than his two coworkers, Ensign Chung and Lieutenant Tripp
Does Daniels strike anyone else as a bit green for his job? Sure, the awe and admiration he expresses for Archer and Starfleet in his quarters in Act 2 humanizes him somewhat, but making allusions to Trip in Act 3 that the existence of Earth in 900 years is in question is not what someone who wants to protect the timeline should be doing. He should keep everything about the future a secret.
Only one is a holgraph/sensor. The other he uses to download porn. (Why do you think he freaked when Trip picked it up?)
Daniels seems to have two holograph/sensor devices. The one he uses to show Archer the Temporal Observatory in Act 2 is dark. The one Trip picks up in Engineering in Act 3 is white, with the center circular screen dark. Why is this? At first I thought the creators had Archer blast the dark one out of Silik’s hand and lost the phase gauntlet himself in Act 4 to prevent technology from 900 years hence from falling into 2151 human hands, but then I noticed the difference in the two devices, which would defeat the whole purpose of doing that. I also notice that after being revived in Act 4, Archer goes to Daniels’ quarters for the dark device, even though the white one was in Engineering, which would indicate that the presence of two different devices was deliberate, and that Archer even mentions the possibility of more stuff in Daniels’ quarters at the end of the episode. So why did the creators make such an effort to have the gauntlet and dark sensor destroyed, but leave all that other stuff there? Won’t that pollute the timeline?
Also makes scratching yourself a b itch
Daniels has a "phase gauntlet" (for lack of a more precise term) that he uses to phase through a bulkhead in Engineering to repair the J-37 power relay. But if he’s intangible, how can he touch the power relay? Is there an open space next to the relay? If there is, would’nt there be a passage for those non-phase gauntlet-wearing engineers to use? And how doesn’t he fall through the decks and out of the ship? If the gauntlet makes the bottom of his feet solid, how can he walk through the bulkhead if doing so requires him to raise and lower his feet when walking?
It clashed with his tricorder
Given that Daniels has access to technology that’s 900 years ahead of Archer’s time, and probably hundreds ahead of Future Guy’s, couldn’t he have a personal forcefield as part of his uniform that would protect him from Silik’s phaser? Even Fajo had a primitive 24th century version in The Most Toys(TNG).
This would establish that Mac computers no longer exist by 2151
In Act 4, Archer tells Trip to use the now dead Daniels’ sensors to find Silik. Trip later says he can’t make heads or tails of the readouts. First of all, does this mean that the viewers in Engineering are using a computer language from Daniels’ sensor device? How could they, given that that device is from 900 years in the future?
The Agosorians brought slugs
Second, why doesn’t he ask Hoshi to help him translate them?
They’re all sloshed on that voo-sinteel stuff
Archer tells Reed in Act 4 to lock down all outer doors and exit hatches, and to post security teams on all decks. So why is there NO ONE in Launch Bay two when Silik escapes from the ship there?
Kinda like stuffing yourself at Taco Bell AND getting drunk in one day
After Silik depressurizes the Launch Bay, and jumps through the doors, Archer seems to have no problem holding his breath, getting up from the catwalk, and staggering over to the control room door, even though the vacuum of space should’ve caused his lungs to explode and every fluid in his body to burst out of every bodily duct, orifice and pore.
They can also get from Manhattan to Long Island on the Expressway during rush hour in under two hours, program a VCR without the manual, and go food shopping when they’re hungry without buying everything in sight
Silik jumps out of the Enterprise launch bay doors in Act 4 to a Suliban pod. Okay, so in addition to chameleonic skin, a rubbery skeleton that he can twist around like a mouse, and enhanced vision, the Suliban can also survive the pressure, lack of oxygen and near-absolute zero temperature of space? (True, Broken Bow featured a Suliban ejecting from his pod in the gas giant, but it wasn’t clear to me then if it was deliberate, or if that Suliban survived.)

I'll post my rebuttals later.

I was mad enough when Voyager did that for a two-parter. I don't care how well the stories are told, if they wipe out seven seasons' worth, I'm going to be... annoyed.

On the other hand, I think we need to step back and let the writers work for a while. Remember that many of DS9's best plot curves were unplanned for! Perhaps they have a general idea, but I'd be surprised if they had specifics down yet.

Brannon Braga has indicated that that is the case with Enterprise, Sparrow.

Luigi:

Archer stated that it was Taylor's shift, that does not mean that Taylor did it each and every morning. Crews on moderal US Navy vessel dont work the same shift at the same time every day. Surely Taylor gets a break now and again.

About Daniels's lack of knowledge about Archer's command codes: Daniels told Trip his group did not monitor events that closely, so Archer's command codes could be in that area. (To be fair though that does seem unlikely but possible)

About the chef not having a name: Gee They are only 11 episodes in. Do you think they have though of a name for all 82 crewmembers. (Luigi Your post on Nov 9 in the "Breaking the Ice" said that it was wrong for me to say the lack of the chef's name was a nit but yet for you it is ok)

Luigi Here is what you said on Nov. 9 2001 from the "Breaking the Ice" Message board

"Does the chef have a name? to be so much more important even though it's not a nit------do all 82 crewmen on have to be named by the seventh episode---or at all

there Then you said it was not a nit why is it a nit now.

After explaining everything to Archer in his quarters in Act 2, Daniels tells him that to find Silik, he wants to tie the Enterprise?s sensor grid into his sensor device. Does anyone else find it difficult to believe that you could enhance a sensor device by tying it in to the sensor grid of a NINE HUNDRED YEAR-OLD ship? Luigi

Two possibilities come to mind. If the grid can pick up the particular signals that Daniels is looking for, but the computers that translate the grid's signals for Trip are too primative to read them, Daniels wants to route the signals through his more sphisticated device. Or, just as almost any metal bar or heavy wire), even one 1,000 years old can act like an antenna when attached to a radio (maybe not as well as an antenna designed for the radio, but better than no antenna), perhaps Daniels wanted the sensor grid merely as an "antenna."

In Act 4, Archer tells Trip to use the now dead Daniels? sensors to find Silik. Trip later says he can?t make heads or tails of the readouts. First of all, does this mean that the viewers in Engineering are using a computer language from Daniels? sensor device? How could they, given that that device is from 900 years in the future? Luigi

You are right in that the Enterprise's monitors should not be showing graphics from Daniels' device, so they probably are showing raw data. This supports my first theory above, that the internal sensor grid can pick up the signals that Daniels is looking for but 22nd century engineers do not know how to read them (and have probably dismissed them until now as "background interference"). Trip still does not know how to interpret them, just that Daniel enhanced them and suppressed certain other signals that are usually enhanced.

And to your next queation: it is a pure engineering problem, not a language one. Hoshi would be no more help in this problem that would be a modern linguist asked to "translate" the sine waves on an occiscope.

After Silik depressurizes the Launch Bay, and jumps through the doors, Archer seems to have no problem holding his breath, getting up from the catwalk, and staggering over to the control room door, even though the vacuum of space should?ve caused his lungs to explode and every fluid in his body to burst out of every bodily duct, orifice and pore.

It's already been explained that the effects of explosive decompression on the human body are not as instantaneous as we usually think of them. Still, Archer should have been suffering terrible "Bends" like symptoms, and should have had more physical trauma than just a little bleeding near the eyes. And he should have been laid up in sickbay at least through the end of the episode.

Excuse me, but if you want to prevent a certain event from happening, the earlier you go back the better..... Waiting until the event is almost upon you is not the tactically best plan.

Ref: Star Trek:Generations for a similar encounter. Picard can emerge at any time or place from the Nexus, yet he comes out what? 10 minutes before the rocket goes off?

Actually, the less time spent in the past, the less the likelihood of unforseen complications, so it makes sense that you would try to emerge as close to the event as possible, with an earlier emergence as merely a Plan B.

Of course that begs the question of why Daniels has been posing as a crewman since the launch -- unless he just "leaped" (Sorry, but someone had to break the ice and make the reference. It was inevitable in a time-travel episode with Bakula) in that morning and either replaced or displaced the real Daniels.

Archer seems to have no problem holding his breath,

Ideally, you actually don't want to hold your breath, because of the pressure differential. You want to open your mouth and let the air out, to avoid internal (and vocal cord) damage.

Luigi nits :

"Going back to prevent his boarding should’ve been Plan A, and if that failed, what Daniels actually did should’ve been Plan B."

You seem to be assuming that it was plan B. We have too little info on what Silik's mission was for you to be making this nit.

"but making allusions to Trip in Act 3 that the existence of Earth in 900 years is in question is not what someone who wants to protect the timeline should be doing. He should keep everything about the future a secret"

You're assuming quite a lot. What if Silik told the truth and Daniels is just part of another faction of this cold war? What if this faction wants to alter time as well? In other words, Daniels could have been lying.

"Wouldn’t he have known about it, and for that matter, put himself in peril by being on the Enterprise at that point in history?"

Again, assuming alot. I swear, I don't think you watched the same episode as the rest of us, because you seem to be basing your nits on more than the episode gave us.

"the Suliban can also survive the pressure, lack of oxygen and near-absolute zero temperature of space"

And? How is that a nit? Do the words "genetic engineering" mean anything to you? And according to Phlox in "Broken Bow", the Suliban were modified to breath in different atmospheres.

"And how doesn’t he fall through the decks and out of the ship? If the gauntlet makes the bottom of his feet solid, how can he walk through the bulkhead if doing so requires him to raise and lower his feet when walking?"

Again, you're assuming you know how the device works.

And as for your chef nit, I agree with Richie on this one. You're being a hypocrite given what you have previously posted.

Richie Veset: Luigi Here is what you said on Nov. 9 2001 from the "Breaking the Ice" Message board

"Does the chef have a name? to be so much more important even though it's not a nit------do all 82 crewmen on have to be named by the seventh episode---or at all

there Then you said it was not a nit why is it a nit now.

Luigi Novi: First of all, Richie, I'd like to know why you deleted the post I made right after your 10:06 post today where I answered these points the first time. It seems only a day or two after reversing your resignation, you're now back to your usual antics.

Now it seems that you're not only trying to engage in another flame war with me, but you want to delete anything I say in this debate, even though you're the one who brought it up (and even though I conceded that you made a valid point in the first of your three comments above).

I could go on and on about how you put words in my mouth that I never said, and how you (once agan) omitted certain details and ignored the context of what was said in my Nov. 9 post, but doing so would be pointless. This subject is obviously another attempt by you to attack me, rather than a sincere difference of opinion on anything going on in the show, and you'll probably delete this post anyway.


Luigi for Richie Vest: I dont know why you posts answering my points was delted. It was not on purpose I assure you. Probably I meant to delete the post above yours which i have now done


As for me trying to start a flame war I am sorry you feel that way that is not my attention. However I ask the rest of you folks to see to read Luigi's post on Nov. 9, 2001 over on the "Breaking the Ice board" and then read the one here and you folks decide.

Rene, I wasn't assuming Daniel's mission (and did you mean Daniels, rather than Silik?). I was just pointing out that Trip's theory didn't seem to make a lot of sense.

As to what Daniels told Trip, my point is that he shouldn't have said anything at all.

As for the third point about Daniel putting himself in danger, I dont' know what it is you think I'm assuming. If he's from the future, he should have knowledge of what happened to the Enterprise. If Silik saved the Enterprise, doesn't that mean the ship blew up? Wouldn't Daniels know that?

As for the Suliban, I was merely expressing skepticism at all they were asking us to swallow. Obviously, some premises are easier to accept than others, and some stretch credulity a bit more than others. To each his own.

Rene: Again, you're assuming you know how the device works.

Luigi Novi: No, I'm not. I'm merely questioning how it works.

Rene: And as for your chef nit, I agree with Richie on this one. You're being a hypocrite given what you have previously posted.

Luigi Novi: And you have every right to your opinion. If I had actually said what Richie said I did, and if the context and details were the same, I'd share it. Again, IDIC, Rene.

Perhaps next time I want to contradict myself, I'l just post anonymously.

They must’ve used Jehovah’s Witnesses to spread the word. Or my college Financial Aid office. They can find you ANYWHERE!
I find it interesting that people from several different alien worlds all adhere to the same spiritual interpretation of the Great Plume of Agosoria. How exactly did this religion spread to other planets? Also, Prah Mantoos tells Archer in Act 1 in the mess hall that the Enterprise has travelled a great distance in such a short amount of time. This would imply that his people don’t have long-range space travel, yet the religion they belong to exists on so many worlds.
I’ll bet Spornan would’ve LOVED to have been in on this betting pool on Voyager!
When Trip asks Daniels in Act 3 if he can help him with the betting pool on how far the Enterprise will travel each day, Daniels says his people don’t monitor events that closely. This doesn’t make sense to me. I wouldn’t expect them to know that Porthos likes cheese, or that Hoshi has a thing for slugs, or what Trip and T’Pol said when they were rubbing gel all over each other in the pilot, but a ship’s daily courses and missions would seem to be EXACTLY what would be in the most basic of records. This would actually be easier to find than the Captain’s command codes. In fact, didn’t Daniels NEED this info to make sure he could get aboard the Enterprise? If he wanted to avoid timeline pollution, he should’ve simply told Trip that he couldn’t tell him.

Again, the Chef is denied a name, when Archer tells on the bridge in Act 1, "Tell Chef to prepare something", as if "Chef" is his name. - Luigi Novi

Maybe his real name is something like Maurice Von Bagglebottom the Third, and out of embarassment he uses Chef as a nickname.

LOL!

Maybe his name is Chef, the great, great, great, great, grandson of Cher.

Or maybe it's Schiff.

For all we know, everything Daniels said was a lie.

As for the chef, let's all call him Maurice Von Bagglebottom from now one

But about the chef, I do agree it's a bit odd. It's like people on this series have a problem with the article "the" for some reason. Why "chef"? Sounded weird. Should have been "THE chef"...just like "The Enterprise" sounds a whole lot better than Enterprise.

Now for a comment about this series' time travel :

Daniel says that 'Future Guy' can only appear in the past and that in a future century, they perfected the technique. Does that mean that Daniels only "appears" in the past as well, albeit in solid form?

And another thing : Maybe I am missing something, but since Daniels is from a time further in the future than 'Future Guy', shouldn't that give him the advantage?

Then again, maybe he is lying and just said all that stuff to make the Captain more cooperative.
Or maybe I am expecting too much from a series co-created by Brannon Braga...Or maybe he'll surprise us and this plot will be great...Or maybe he'll screw it up like Voyager...or maybe....

> (Luigi)

Oh. Uh... my bad, then.

Hmmm... double my bad- that post was supposed to have a quote in it! In fact, it was supposed to have this quote: "Brannon Braga has indicated that that is the case with Enterprise, Sparrow."

Hope that makes sense.

TUE: This spy from the future claims that he comes from 900 years in the future. This would be from the 31st century. This is beyond even Captain Braxton's time period. However, this does not mean that the person in Silik's chamber is from the 31st century.
Luigi Novi: Daniels told Archer that this was the case, that Future Guy’s people are from an time period earlier than his own.

SMT: Maybe I forgot something from "Broken Bow", but how would Archer know that Suliban get genetic enhancements as rewards?
Luigi Novi: Phlox examined the dead Suliban in sickbay in Broken Bow, and told Archer they received genetic enhancements.

muas: Some of the words of the chant that Phlox leads in the mess hall sounded really familiar. Are they part of any actual language?
Luigi Novi: I don’t know if they’re part of a real language, muas, but if you want to take a gander at the entire Invocation, it is:

Goran tonia Agosoria yoraya uralan porporo gost. Totonya tur eeta dura. Tyana mooreeta.

Sparrow47: The movie they watched seems to indicate that science fiction, in some form, will survive after deep space exploration and contact with aliens. Yee-haw!
Luigi Novi: From the title, Night of the Killer Androids, it seemed to me that it was an old movie, possibly from mid 20th century, than a new one.

Sparrow47: Apparently Silik's task was to steal Daniels' fancy device (which he failed to do).
Luigi Novi: I thought Silik was sent to stop the antimatter cascade, and Daniels sent to capture Silik. Oh well. It is pretty circular no matter how you look at it.

Machiko Jenkins: If Daniels has been on the ship the entire time, why didn't he try to apprehend Silik in the pilot?
Luigi Novi: I wasn’t clear on that. Was he on board since the pilot? Or sometime between then and this episode?

Keith Alan Morgan (Kmorgan): What was it that Phlox said he celebrated at the Vulcan Embassy? I thought he might have said Tal-Shiar which would be odd since I believe that is the name of the Romulan secret police.
--
Elizabeth: He apparently either celebrated Tal Shiar, the Romulan Secret Service, (as Keith Morgan said) or he participated in Tal Shaya, the ritual Vulcan homicide by neck snap (see the TOS episode Babel). In either case he should be arrested.
Luigi Novi: He said he attended the Tal-Shanar at the Vulcan Consulate.

KAM: The dephasing device… Maybe it only allowed people to pass through the things that were 'touched' first by the hand wearing the device?
Luigi Novi: But what about when the rest of the person’s body went through, including their feet?

Sparrow47: I think Archer let the Sulliban go because he knew they had failed, so he didn't need to risk anything else.
Luigi Novi: Who failed what? Who’s "they"?

ScottN: Also because possibly he wasn't sure any more who the "bad guys" are. As I posted above, I really liked that aspect of this episode.
Luigi Novi: Yeah, but just because cops arriving at the scene of fight don’t know who started it doesn’t mean they let both guys go. They separate them, secure both of them, and then ask questions.

Trike: If T'Pol is so certain that time travel isn't possible, then why didn't she rebuff Archer when he learned about the Temporal Cold War in "Broken Bow"?
Luigi Novi: She may have done so off-camera.

TomM: You are right in that the Enterprise's monitors should not be showing graphics from Daniels' device, so they probably are showing raw data.
Luigi Novi: The first thing we saw Trip looking at in Act 4 was a graphic of the Enterprise with blips moving around on it, which he suggested to Archer might be Suliban biosigns, but wasn’t sure.

Our respective interpretations on this, and the Hoshi nit, seemed to be based on a lot of speculation and interpretation of the scene, so I’ll just leave it there.

I think that Daniels' device was really just a modified and controlled version of what happened to Ro and Geordi in "The Next Phase" which explains why they walk through walls and not floors.

Of course, if you have a problem with the plausibility of such a device, just remember, the Romulans work in mysterious ways.

Speaking of "The Next Phase" wouldn't it have been quite the Tribute for Archer to pass through someone doing pushups in their quarters?

Maybe the reason Silik pulled only the last coupling before the anti-matter chamber was enough to not destroy the ship, and whatever he was here to do. And still disable it enough so that when he made his getaway the Enterprise wouldn't be in a position to give chase. Just a theory here.

Maurice Von Bagglebottom the Third? Geez, his parents must have hated him, no wonder he joined Star Fleet. ;)

Anyone want to see if the invocation makes any sense in reverse? I would type it out, but you'd probably all lynch me from the port nacelle.

Chef is the Space Cowboy!!! Chef is the gangster of love!!!

Luigi- I meant "they," as in the Sulliban.

And here's the chant backwards (taken from Luigi's post): "Ateeroom anayt Arud atee rut anynotot. Tsog oroprop naaru ayaroy airosoga aninot narog."

Doesn't seem to mean anything, but I have the sudden urge to join the Navy...

DougB: I think that Daniels' device was really just a modified and controlled version of what happened to Ro and Geordi in "The Next Phase" which explains why they walk through walls and not floors.
Luigi Novi: Well, yeah, but it was a nit in that episode too.

I gotchya, Sparrow. Sorry for the confusion on my part.

The dephasing device? Maybe it only allowed people to pass through the things that were 'touched' first by the hand wearing the device? KAM

But what about when the rest of the person?s body went through, including their feet? Luigi

I think what KAM might be saying is that the device makes the bulkhead intangible, not the wearer. It eliminates the floor nit, but the what about anything (energy, water, sewage, antimatter, etc.) flowing through conduits which become "phased"?

As for the chef, let's all call him Maurice Von Bagglebottom from now one. - Rene

Cool!

I don’t know if they’re part of a real language, muas, but if you want to take a gander at the entire Invocation, it is:

Goran tonia Agosoria yoraya uralan porporo gost. Totonya tur eeta dura. Tyana mooreeta. -Luigi Novi

Thanks a lot. Did you get that from the closed captioning, or a different source?

SMT: Maybe I forgot something from "Broken Bow", but how would Archer know that Suliban get genetic enhancements as rewards?

Luigi Novi: Phlox examined the dead Suliban in sickbay in Broken Bow, and told Archer they received genetic enhancements.

SMT: Yes, but as rewards? I don't see how Archer intuits that part.

DougB: I think that Daniels' device was really just a modified and controlled version of what
happened to Ro and Geordi in "The Next Phase" which explains why they walk through walls and
not floors.

Luigi Novi: Well, yeah, but it was a nit in that episode too.


No it wasn't, it was just badly explained.

The dephasing device might make part of a body out of phase, whatever's convenient for the user. It's linked to the user's mind so whatever the user wants to think of, gets phased or whatever. Hard to nitpick 900-years advanced technology.
The ultimate series reset was the last episode of Newhart when Bob Newhart woke up next to Suzanne Pleshette in their apartment from "The Bob Newhart Show". The nit for that was that in the last episode of that series, Bob and Emily moved out of their Chicago apartment and moved to Oregon. The anti-nit is, their Oregon bedroom was decorated to look exactly like their Chicago bedroom.
What if in the last episode of Enterprise, they use the exact same footage of Bob waking up next to Emily...
Or Berman waking up next to Braga...
Or Gul Dukat waking up next to Seska...
Seska waking up next to Sela...

Lots of possibilities for celebrity cameos there...

I just remembered the Vorgons in "Captain's Holiday". They were time-travelers, and might be involved, unless the writers forgot about them too.

Richie, this board is up to 139k.