• Show Board 2 September 06 - 2:22 pm

This is the first post for this episode.

Well, it just looked lonely here. :-)

Pretty good, on the whole. The multiple references to Clouzot's Wages of Fear was an unexpected bonus, and there were many interesting looks at the day-to-day operation of Enterprise here.

The last shot was truly awe-inspiring. Nice job, CGI guys. And that's not something I say often.

Speaking of French movies: Did the aliens' peculariar hangup remind anyone of a particular scene in Bunuel's The Phantom of Liberty. If you've ever seen the film you know the one I'm talking about.

Yeah I thought it was a pretty good episode too.

THe CGI guys were working overtime on some of those shots. Good job guys!

A few nits though...
When was the last time we saw a normal door onboard, rather than the doors that slide open?

Does anyone else find it strange that Hoshi heard the thing making noise before T'Pol with her superior Vulcan ears?

Hoshi probably heard it first because she is more in tune with her equipment. A good episode best cgi I have seen in a long time, and it was good to see some Hoshi -T'pol bonding.

Wow. that totally sucked. It was worse than the worst Voyager. When Bakula asked Trip what was on his mind, I expected the response to be "I love you too sir!"

I'm impressed. The title did eventually have relevance to the episode. Still, I would have been tempted to name this one "Attack of the Killer Fettuccine Alfredo". {big grin}

We've seen the theater before, but only this time did I realize that all the seating is on one level, not tiered or ramped as at regular theaters. People in the back will have no chance to see the movie through the forest of heads in front of them.

Sports coverage will apparently regress in the next 150 years. The camera shots on the water polo game were not of the quality one would expect for a championship event, even in a minor sport. Extended tight shots on one player conceal the flow of the game. And if Archer is such a fan, and hails from one of the competing colleges(Stanford), why does he not know players' names? He keeps referring to them by number.

Reed pulls out a tricorder, waves it at Crewman Kelly, and declares "She's alive." This would have been news, if we hadn't heard her give a loud moan several seconds before. Guess all that practice on the target range has done a number on Reed's hearing. :-)

Less than a year ago, phase pistols were brand new to this crew. Now we see someone toting what we must assume is a phase rifle, when the ship has had no opportunity to restock. Of course, it might be one of the older weapons, but then we should have heard Reed saying that this weapon had no effect either. (Or was it even fired?)

So, phase pistols(and rifles) are useless against the creature, but a sustained burst of EM radiation will do it harm? What do you think EM radiation is? The term refers to, basically, any kind of photons, from gamma rays through visible light and onto radio waves. Phase pistols are putting out EM radiation. Claiming otherwise is just an invocation of technobabble. Now, if they had said "broad-band EM", then I could buy it, since a phase pistol presumably works on a narrow frequency range. A little more thought, guys …

Still, nice way to break out of the slump. (Though my offer still stands, WTW. My services are reasonably priced.)

I apologize if this has been mentioned before.
I noticed that Dr. Phlox's medical readouts use the same triangle indicators used on McCoy's readouts in TOS.
Also nice to see Travis get a good scene communicating with the other alien race.

--Notes:
--Another mediocre episode. I really liked the look and concept for the creature, and that final shot of the alien planet’s vista, in which we saw how big that creature was, was really cool, and the first time, I think that a Trek crew has encountered such a large single planet-based lifeform (although you could probably make that argument for the Great Link, and of course, large space-based single lifeforms encountered in the past include the amoeba in The Immunity Syndrome(TOS), the Borg Collective, and the telepathic pitcher plant in Bliss(VOY). The episode is also probably the first one in the series to not only give an important scene to every single cast member, but also create a couple of supporting characters (WITH dialogue, mind you, and who DIDN’T get killed by the end of the episode!).
--That said, I was extremely disappointed in how the creators yet again gave us the short shrift on character and theme. I’m particularly disappointed for this episode, more so than the past several episodes, because I noticed two moments that were ripe for exploring, but left unutilized. First was Reed’s wishy-washiness not only as a security officer, but as a link in the chain of command. He allows Phlox to disobey him in sickbay, even though crewmen’s lives are at stake by the very lifeform Phlox wants to protect, and Reed, who is supposed to be this professional tactical officer, backs down just a bit too easily. What would’ve been FAR more interesting would be for Reed to have grabbed the arm Phlox placed on Reed’s device and twisted it around, throwing Phlox to the floor, and got right in his face, telling him in no uncertain terms that he was in charge, and would beat the cr@p out of Phlox if Phlox did anything to endanger Archer. It not only would’ve been more realistic, and more competent for Reed to do, it would’ve made for FAR better drama. It wouldn’t work on NextGen or DS9, but because Enterprise is (or should be) largely about watching these pioneers figuring out the rules and regulations for situations like this for the first time as humans venture out away from Earth, away from Starfleet authority, it would’ve been a good thing to explore. It would’ve been a good issue for this episode to explore, and created a bit of conflict that could’ve persisted after this episode—a sort of tension between the practical, hardassed Reed and the pacifistic Phlox. Mind you, I’m not saying that I necessarily would’ve sided with Reed had he done this, only that it would’ve made a more compelling, thematically relevant story, with long-lasting repercussions for both Reed and Phlox, and for how Starfleet regards the chain of command.
--Another plot point they could’ve used to explore things on a character level was the manner in which those ensnared by the creature could share thoughts. Wouldn’t this have been a PRIME opportunity for two sets of characters with buried or tense feelings—Archer and T’Pol, Trip and T’Pol, Reed and T’Pol, Cutler and Phlox—to have been thrust into a situation where sudden knowledge of the others’ thoughts created awkwardness, embarrasment, or a new understanding of the other, as in Attached(TNG)? Unfortunately, the creators squander both of these opportunities, and created yet another thematically inert episode that does nothing but take up 42 mintues of screen time and give yet one more role to Vaughn Armstrong.
--Cargo Bay 2 is on D-Deck, as Kelly tells Rostov in Act 1.


Be back later with my nits!

Just for the stu- er- un enlightened (like me) among us, what the heck did the title "Vox Sola" mean?

"A Lone Voice". Apt, in the end.

When Sato, Reed and T'Pol are debating whether to communicate or blast the alien, T'Pol sides with Reed. Then Sato apparently does no further work with the language until T'Pol asks her. Why don't they pursue BOTH avenues? If the aliens can eat and mate at the same time...

Since I am starting to get annoying repetitive with comparisons to Dear Doctor, let me just say that Phlox's compassion is... interesting.

I thought that this was a very good episode. The best since "Shuttlepod One" anyway. I really liked Travis's scene where he realizes that he is mostly alone on the bridge (except the two crewmen in the very back) and must answer the call himself. I also enjoyed the fact that the alien (can't remember the species name) was disgusted that humans put food into their mouth only to reveal that that is how they eat as well.

I think this episode confirms that SIFs and IDFs are different types of forcefields than the forcefields used for the brig and to repel energy and matter (deflector forcefields)

Is there a reason the alien had to go to an exact position on the planet? Is this where it was separated? And how did it get off of the planet? Did the aliens land and accidentally attach it to their ship?

SMT: If Archer is such a fan, and hails from one of the competing colleges(Stanford), why does he not know players' names? He keeps referring to them by number.
I remember he referred to a Texas guy as a number (#8 I think). Did he refer to a Stanford guy? Besides, he been out in deep space for about 9 months now. I doubt he can keep up with sports on Earth. He didn't seem to know that Stanford and Texas faced each other in the Regionals until Trip showed him the file.

So, phase pistols(and rifles) are useless against the creature, but a sustained burst of EM radiation will do it harm? What do you think EM radiation is? The term refers to, basically, any kind of photons, from gamma rays through visible light and onto radio waves. Phase pistols are putting out EM radiation. Claiming otherwise is just an invocation of technobabble. Now, if they had said "broad-band EM", then I could buy it, since a phase pistol presumably works on a narrow frequency range.
Perhaps the devices they were using transmitted the entire spectrum or only part of the EM spectrum injures the creature (I don't know if that's even possible though). We know that it was at least sensitive to visible light. Considering that the pistols do have some light emitted it should have had some effect.

Luigi: The episode is also probably the first one in the series to not only give an important scene to every single cast member, but also create a couple of supporting characters (WITH dialogue, mind you, and who DIDN’T get killed by the end of the episode!)
I don't think a single Enterprise crewman (besides Daniels) has been killed yet. Wasn't the first guy that got taken by the alien creature first seen in Strange New World?

First was Reed’s wishy-washiness not only as a security officer, but as a link in the chain of command. He allows Phlox to disobey him in sickbay, even though crewmen’s lives are at stake by the very lifeform Phlox wants to protect, and Reed, who is supposed to be this professional tactical officer, backs down just a bit too easily
When it comes to protection of a patient, Phlox, like the doctors of previous Treks, can probably override the authority of a higher ranking officer.

Plus, if Reed, had attacked Phlox, I really don't think that would be very in character at all. I don't think a "professional" security officer would attack a colleague in these circumstances. Getting in their face and arguing it, that's a different story. (I thought Reed did a little of that)

When Sato, Reed and T'Pol are debating whether to communicate or blast the alien, T'Pol sides with Reed. Then Sato apparently does no further work with the language until T'Pol asks her. Why don't they pursue BOTH avenues? If the aliens can eat and mate at the same time...

I noticed this too. While I wouldn't expect Hoshi to work on the other without orders, I'm surprised that T'Pol doesn't ask her to in case Reed's plan fails.

Also nice to see Travis get a good scene communicating with the other alien race.

I thought that was a good scene... funny, yet effective. However, why was Travis alone on the bridge? Isn't there a "Beta" or "Gamma" shift crew? Wouldn't *SOMEBODY* be up there with Travis, in case of trouble?

I loved the concept of eating as a social taboo.

---
the creators yet again gave us the short shrift on character and theme.

I disagree. We got more T'Pol/Hoshi development (the "You're picking on me" scene). Travis got a chance to shine a little (see above).

Good point about the lack of people on the bridge, maybe they realized that the captain was busy so they could take some time off to relax and have some down time.

Okay episode, and a cool scene at the end when the shuttle left. Of course, I wonder if this story could have happened at all if the Enterprise had made sure the hatch was closed before the Kreetassen ship departed. One would think all hatches would be sealed before the ships would separate.

Exactly how did the Kreetassens get access to the Enterprise database so that they could develop a method to communicate with the crew in English? Did Archer simply give it to them? Did they sneak a look when nobody was looking?

I liked the Mayweather scene on the bridge. Here's a guy who definitely wants to be a commander some day, and when he got the chance to play commander for at least a brief moment, he took it quickly.

When Reed brings his security forces into the cargo bay when they were using the EM generators, they didn't need their forcefield, and the creature's tentacles did not strike out immediately, as they did when the forcefield was installed for the communication scene.

The Enterprise was not going anywhere in a hurry either. In all the window shots, the stars were stationary.

So much for the "new post-9/11 atmosphere"
Great Line: "You’ll like it. THINGS BLOW UP." -Travis to Reed in Act 1, convincing him that he’ll like the scheduled movie in the screening room.

---Continuity Nods:
---We see the beginnings of Earth force fields in the episode. Reed tells T’Pol in the beginning of Act 3 that Starfleet’s been trying unsuccessfully for years to create forcefield technology, and that he has jury-rigged his own version that can absorb phase pistol energy 60% of the time.

---Terms:
Kreestassans The aliens in the beginning of the episode, who find eating in the presence of others to be offensive.
Tostka the Kreestassan word for "insult"
Hwajat A Kreetassan word that means "to mate" when emphasis is placed on the first syllable, but otherwise means "eat," as Hoshi mentions on the bridge in the beginning of Act 1.
Wages of Fear Le Salaire de la Peur, a classic 1953 French thriller about a dangerous nitroglycerine transport, starring Yves Montand, later remade into a 1977 film starring Roy Scheider, which is being played in the screening room in Act 1.
Neethian cradlefish lifeform Phlox mentions in Act 2 whose appendages can survive after being severed from the body.

From the "Square Peg into the Round Hole" Dept.:
We see the Kreestassan ship detach from the Enterprise at the end of the teaser. It could have been assumed in past episodes that the crews rigged adapters of some sort to make the connection compatible, but here, for the first time, we’re shown a close up of the alien ship attached to the Enterprise, with no adapter. Incredibly, the Kreetassan docking tube fits PERFECTLY onto the Enterprise airlock hatch!
Until he realized how stupid it was to be an avid water polo fan
To cheer up Archer in Act 1, Trip shows him the Stanford vs. Texas water polo finals, which he says are "fresh out of the subspace mailbag." He tells Archer he was going to save it for a rainy day. We then learn that Archer is a very avid follower of the game. If Archer is such a huge fan, aren’t the finals an important thing for which he’d be looking through the subspace mail himself? Just how long did Trip plan on holding on to it before he thought Archer would eventually get his hands on a copy himself?
Captain, I’d like to introduce you to your new security heads: Meet Lieutenant Keystone, and Ensign Kops
It’s official. Reed is utterly incompetent as a security officer, and so are his men. Neither he nor the other security guy in Act 2 put up ANY sort of fight with the creature in Act 2 after it snags both Archer and Trip. Reed just stands there with his phase pistol, pointed at Trip, quivering in his hand, and not once does he even try to fire at the tendrils holding Trip, even though he has a clear shot. The other security guy does the same thing, and just tries to scamper up a ladder when a tendril goes after him, not bothering to try firing at it. A tendril then goes after Reed, and he just looks at it like a deer caught in headlights, before running away, not once discharging his weapon. Just what the hell is the matter with this guy? Regular EM bursts hurt it, and a slammed door severed one of its tendrils. Phase pistols might’ve killed the •••• thing. Then, even though he outranks Phlox, he allows Phlox to disobey him in sickbay, because—get this—according to Phlox, he is the ranking officer in sickbay "according to Archer," because he doesn’t want Reed to hurt the tendril, which Phlox thinks might be intelligent, even though Archer, Trip, Kelly, Rostov and the security guard are in mortal danger, and may only have a few hours left (according to Phlox in the first scene of Act 2—less by the time of the argument, which takes place sometime later in the same Act), and the procedure Phlox would rather do would take about an hour.
Yeah, but the crew is always demanding that Reed be placed in quarantine, and after a while, Phlox stopped doing so
Phlox wears a containment suit when examining the tendril in Act 2. If he feels there’s a risk of contamination of some sort, then shouldn’t Reed have been placed in quarantine?
This was always a problem on Vulcan starships when one half of the crew wanted to chew gum and the other half wanted to go walking
Hoshi suggests in Act 2 that she try to communicate with the creature. Reed is skeptical, saying it would take Hoshi days to learn what Hoshi thinks is the creature’s language—assuming it even is one. Phlox examines the creature, and says EM radiation will hurt the creature. Reed tells T’Pol it’ll take a few minutes to assemble some EM emitters. They try unsuccessfully to free their fellow crewmen. T’Pol then tells Hoshi in the closing shot of Act 2 that since she wanted to try and communicate with it, she should begin trying to do so. Good idea, T’Pol. But since doing so might take days, just maybe a better idea would’ve been to tell her to begin deciphering its language at the same time as Reed prepared the EM emitters?
Looks like the season’s budget for extras ran out
Why is Travis the only one on the bridge when contacting the Kreetassan captain in Act 3?
It evolved cuz the Kreetassans are freakin’ geniuses! They’re figured out a way to do away with family get-togethers!
The Kreetassan captain tells Travis that what offended the Kreetassans was that the Enterprise crew put food in their mouths, which is like mating. Travis asks him how Kreetassans eat, and the captain says they eat the same way, but not in the presence of others. Does anyone else out there think this makes absolutely no sense? Was this jerkweed offended by where our guys put their food, or that they did it in public? If Kreetassans eat in the same way, why did where they put the food offend them? If it was the latter, and Kreetassans eat in private, what does that have to do with the first part? Shouldn’t the captain have just said, "You eat in public with others. We do not."? What does how they eat have to do with it?
They’d hit their women over the head with a club and drag ‘em away, but they’d put on latex gloves first
And how in the WORLD did such a custom evolve? Customs often evolve from ancient circumstance. Tattoos, for example, used to be the domain of the rich, because they were so expensive. When it ceased being expensive, it lost that status. Given the way the first ancient people of a species evolve—often eating, sleeping and even mating in close quarters in front of one another, one has to wonder how the ancient Kreetassan equivalent of the Neanderthals lived, or how and why this attitude came about.
They hang out in decon all day rubbing gel all over each other
After the creature releases the crewmen in Act 4, Phlox goes to a wall panel and calls for a medical team to Cargo Bay 2. First of all, since when does Phlox have "medical teams"? Why haven’t we EVER seen nurses or other personnel in sickbay?
See above heading
Second, shouldn’t he have had such teams with him when he first went to the Cargo Bay?
It got tired of being insulted by the Kreetassans every time it ate
If this creature lives on a planet, and evolved in that environment, then how could the portion that attached itself to the Kreetassan ship have survived when it went into outer space? Phlox says at the end of the episode that it may have needed to bond to a lifeform after being separated from its main body. So how long was in on the Kreetassan ship, travelling through outer space for light years at warp speed, before it ducked inside the Enterprise? And why did it to the Enterprise if it had survived there for so long?
From the "Ah-ha! We have you right where you want us!" Dept.:
In the final shot of the episode, we see the shuttlepod lift off from the planet. Apparently, the crew chose for their landing spot, a clearing that was surrounded entirely by the creature. Shouldn’t they have instead picked a spot at the edge where the creature ended?

It was an OK story, better than average.

My favorite part was the teamwork and interaction among Enterprise crewmembers and how everybody had a substantial part in the story (even Travis! I knew he could talk. I just knew it!). I also enjoyed the slices of everyday life aboard the ship, such as the movies and Archer's interest in sports.

I really didn't care for the spider web alien (obviously in deference to the new Spider-Man movie). I'd rather watch people get slimed on Nickelodeon than Enterprise. I had no empathy for the creature because I never understood its motives for capturing the crew.

More nits and notes:

-- I guess Malcolm making the first stable force field doesn’t violate continuity (they had them in the original series), but it’s near the end of the first season and Enterprise almost has every futuristic gadget of the later shows. Defense shields are about the only thing left, and since they likely work on the same principle as the force fields, they shouldn’t be far behind.

-- I know Enterprise has a small crew, but how small does it have to be that Travis was alone on the bridge?

-- Kelly, who's a crewman and not an officer, appeared to be in charge of Engineering.

-- Does somebody have a count for how many times Archer has been taken captive? It’s becoming more common than Voyager losing a shuttle.

-- Why was Phlox with the landing party and not in sick bay with the captain and others?

-- I thought it was a copout that there was no real explanation for the alien’s actions. Maybe Phlox was right, and it did it because it had an instinctive need to connect with others. But we were given the impression the creature was intelligent, so it should have realized that the humans did not like being held captive. It might have been better if the creature had explained things to Hoshi through the translator.

Okay, I don't know HOW this got past me (on both counts, no less), especially since I thought I was looking carefully, but apparently Reed and the other security guard DID fire at the creature. I messed up. Disregard that comment above.

But another two problem comes up--First, how could a biological creature be resistant to the energy of a phase pistol? If it is somehow able to put out a counteracting energy field to neutralize it (kinda like anti-noise generators), albeit, an invisible one, why can it not do so with conventional EM energy?

Second, the creature was repelled by that other security guard's rifle; the tendril hit by it let go of Archer. The only reason he got pulled up was because another one was wrapped around his leg and yanked him up. So why didn't that security guard keep firing with whatever weapon that was that he had?

Once again an episode is directed by a star of a previous Star Trek series. This episode was directed by Roxann Dawson (formerly Voyager's B'lanna Torres). I believe Robert Duncan McNeil has also directed an episode of Enterprise. Seems kind of fitting, after all, both Jonathan Frakes and LeVar Burton, from Voyager's predecesor, NextGen, directed episodes of Voyager.

Now, on to the episode....

Poor Hoshi, too bad she had to slog through learning those aliens language when it seems they picked up English in a snap!

Vaughn Armstrong sure does get around. In this episode, he plays the Alien Captain. This is his third role in Enterprise, counting those of Admiral Forrest and the Klingon Captain in Sleeping Dogs.

All in all, it was an okay episode.

Anonymous: When Bakula asked Trip what was on his mind, I expected the response to be "I love you too sir!"
Luigi Novi: ROTFLMAO!!!!

SMT: Reed pulls out a tricorder, waves it at Crewman Kelly, and declares "She’s alive." This would have been news, if we hadn’t heard her give a loud moan several seconds before.
Luigi Novi: I reviewed the scene, and Kelly lets out a couple of very low exhales, (not a "loud moan"), and since Reed was standing some distance away, I don’t find it impossible that he didn’t hear her.

SMT: And if Archer is such a fan, and hails from one of the competing colleges(Stanford), why does he not know players' names? He keeps referring to them by number.
Luigi Novi: Archer says, "Number eight on Texas just fouled one of my boys" in Act 1, so he was referring to Texas, not Stanford, and Trip said the Texas goalie couldn’t block to his right because he keeps his hands to deep in Act 3.

SMT: Less than a year ago, phase pistols were brand new to this crew. Now we see someone toting what we must assume is a phase rifle, when the ship has had no opportunity to restock. Of course, it might be one of the older weapons, but then we should have heard Reed saying that this weapon had no effect either. (Or was it even fired?)
Luigi Novi: Yes, it was fired. The other security guy who didn’t get a name or dialogue fired it, and it at one of the two tendrils holding Archer, and it worked! The other tendril then pulled him up.

JoshM: I think this episode confirms that SIFs and IDFs are different types of forcefields than the forcefields used for the brig and to repel energy and matter (deflector forcefields)
Luigi Novi: How so?

JoshM: Wasn't the first guy that got taken by the alien creature first seen in Strange New World?
Luigi Novi: Novakovich? No, the guy who got taken was Michael Rostov.

JoshM: When it comes to protection of a patient, Phlox, like the doctors of previous Treks, can probably override the authority of a higher ranking officer.
Luigi Novi: A patient? The tendril of an alien animal is a patient? Yeah, I know Phlox said he thought it might be intelligent, but nothing afterwards indicated it had anything beyond the intelligence of a dolphin. (Which, of course, is another problem with this episode, as Trike pointed out.) If it did, why didn’t the crew stay on the planet to study it and learn from it?

JoshM: Plus, if Reed, had attacked Phlox, I really don't think that would be very in character at all.
Luigi Novi: How so? There’s only been 22 episodes so far, and we’ve gotten so little on most of them. Silent Enemy actually made the point that not only do the viewers know little of Reed, but so do his shipmates. Character is created by the actions taken by the characters, and if the creators weren’t so determined to play it safe with these lukewarm, cardboard vanilla personality types, and maybe shake it up a bit, we could see just what Reed is capable of.

JoshM: I don't think a "professional" security officer would attack a colleague in these circumstances. Getting in their face and arguing it, that's a different story. (I thought Reed did a little of that)
Luigi Novi: Part of writing serialized fiction like this is taking a character and putting him in circumstances that in which he may be forced to act out of character, or in ways contrary to his initial instincts or outward appearance. (The reason the phrase "out of character" exists is because people do behave that way sometimes. ) Think about it: Reed’s captain and other crewmen are in mortal danger. Phlox himself said they have a few hours left, and the procedure Phlox wants to do may take about an hour, maybe less. Reed’s instincts and training are to protect his captain and crew. Pacifism and deference to alien lifeforms probably wasn’t a part of his training (at least not the way it may come to be for TNG or DS9 crews, because guys like Reed are so new to alien life—a point that this series should emphasize). He might feel (as I do) that Phlox’s assertion that Archer said he is the ranking officer in sickbay is a load of bunk. If he feels Phlox is endangering the captain for what Reed feels is just an animal, he may feel justified in politely telling Phlox to remove his hand from his device, and then removing it himself if Phlox refuses. Okay, so maybe he doesn’t twist Phlox’s arm around and flip him over, but he grabs his hand and steadfastly swipes it away from his force field prototype device with a stern tone of voice.
---Would this be professional or realistic? I’m not sure. I think it’s debatable. It was pointed out that the mutiny aboard the submarine in Crimson Tide was implausible, but of course it was. It was a character-driven thriller, and IMHO, a good one that I thoroughly enjoyed. Was it believable? Well, it was at least believable enough for me to suspend my disbelief, and so it would have been had Reed taken a strong-arm approach in this episode, and had Archer and the characters in general were a little less wimpy when pushed around by the Nausicaans in Fortunate Son and Acquisition. The fact that some might feel as you do, Josh is precisely why doing so might be a provocative plot point, make for interesting character conflict, and spark discussion among viewers—something Star Trek USED to be about.

ScottN: I loved the concept of eating as a social taboo.
Luigi Novi: So a tape of a pie eating contest would be like porn to these guys?

Luigi Novi: the creators yet again gave us the short shrift on character and theme.

ScottN: I disagree. We got more T'Pol/Hoshi development (the "You're picking on me" scene). Travis got a chance to shine a little (see above).
Luigi Novi: IMO, it seemed repetitive and redundant, after Broken Bow and Sleeping Dogs, and didn’t build upon their scenes in those episodes with anything new. As for Travis, merely being in a scene and having something to do isn’t in and of itself, character development. Just my opinion, buddy.

Steve Oostrom: Exactly how did the Kreetassens get access to the Enterprise database so that they could develop a method to communicate with the crew in English? Did Archer simply give it to them?
Luigi Novi: I assumed there had to be such an exchange in order for both sides’ universal translators to work.

Chief Sharky: Poor Hoshi, too bad she had to slog through learning those aliens language when it seems they picked up English in a snap!
Luigi Novi: How is it in a snap? Hoshi only had whatever amount of time the Kreetassans were on the ship up until dinner. The Kreetassans had the time to go over the Enterprise’s database for hours, perhaps a day, after they left. They may also have more sophisticated translators.

Seems several people had problems with Travis being on the bridge alone when the Kreestassan captain hailed Enterprise...
But disregard that and I had a huge problem with this scene...
Travis' "description" of the lifeform was horrendous. I would have described it as a white cocoon-like substance as seen in the movie Aliens.
But, of course, since the Kreestassan most likely have not seen the movie Aliens why not just show the captain a picture of the creature?
Wouldn't someone have at least filmed the thing if there were no security cameras in the cargo bay? They must not have Real TV shows in the future like they have now, I guess.
And then it gets funnier. When the captain admits to having seen the creature my first question would have been something like - "How do we get rid of it?"
Instead Travis asks where its homeworld is? Eh? How is that going to help in the immediate situation?
Glad Travis was on the ball enough not to apologize for something without first asking why...But ,then, why would the captain of the other ship have asked Travis to apologize anyway?
It sure didn't seem like Travis was even seen eating with the Kreestassan. He sure wasn't even in the hallway, afterward.

First If my memory serves correctly, in Broken Bow I saw a few of the security guards having some type of rifle. Also, about trying to have Lt. Reed try to get physical with Phlox to do the experiement, I dont think that would be good at all. Having some one loose his cool like that under pressure would be the sign of a man who can't handle the pressure. In other words, he would actually be not much of a armor officer.

Archer says that they will head for a "brown dwarf system". IIRC Brown Dwarfs are gas giants like Jupiter that have not become stars. So does Archer mean a planetary system that orbits a gas giant, instead of a star???

When Phlox was talking about the creature absorbing the people into itself, I thought maybe they were ripping off an old SF novel where an alien absorbed people, but their essence remained. (Voyager In Night??? Maybe C.J. Cherryh or Joan daVinge or Tanith Lee as author?)

Soooooo, these Kreestassans eat & mate & talk with their mouths. This means that one opening leads to the lungs, stomach & reproductive organs. While not necesarily impossible it would seem to hamper the chances of surviving & reproducing as food, liquid & reproductive elements could wind up going down the wrong pipe.

The Kreestassans probably don't have many restaurants on their homeworld.

That device which was used to scan the
creature in sickbay looks suspiciously like my Radio Shack Space invaders game

Regarding the Kreestassans and their insulted demeanor:

I didn't get the impression that they reproduce via the mouth. What I got was the sense that they regard eating the same way they do sexual intercourse. That is, to be done in private, not in front of huge crowds.

Which would be why they were so insulted: to them, asking them to eat in a social situation like the galley would be akin to asking them to go to the local park and join everyone in the "free love" going on there.

Luigi, IIRC, the security guy in the web did have a name and did have dialogue. I believe it was Archer who referred to him by name (which I don't recall), and asked him how Kelly was doing. To which he replied that she was still breathing.

Phlox and Reed standoff: I imagine that there are regulations in place to determine the pecking order of things when the Captain's not around to have to constantly tell everyone what to do. And yes, it is understandable that Reed eventually backed down: He doesn't run sickbay, Phlox does. Reed wouldn't like it one bit if Phlox undermined his authority in the armory, would he? So even if Reed was itching to tear Phlox's arm off and shove it down his throat (and in public, just to keep in theme with the AOTW being offended)...he had to respect the hierarchy of the ship.

What did make me stop and stare, though (other than the phone ringing), was the forcefield that Reed constructed. I would have thought that, for something created in a short period of time and basically jury-rigged, it should not have been perfectly clear like the fields used in the "later" series. To me, it would have been more realistic if it had been fuzzy.

No other comments on this that I care to comment on at this time.

No other comments on this that I care to comment on at this time.

Would you care to comment on that no comment?

Machiko: The security guard did not speak. The person you were referring to was the first crewmen to enter the cargo bay. If the security guard had spoken he would have been credited as SAG rules dicate.

I liked this episode much more than I expected to after the first 15 minutes or so. My first instinct was, "Uh, oh. An 'Alien' ripoff."

I like the title that was unique enough that I will be able to recall this ep by title alone in the future.

Every ship should have a dog. Apparently Porthos is a better intruder alert system than the electronic one (does the Enterprise even have one?)

Archer talks about believing you will never be beaten, and that his team made it all the way to the finals. Does that mean they didn't win the Championship?

When the security team arrives at the cargo bay, Archer says "Set phasers to stun". The guys hit a couple buttons. Were they turned completely off? Shouldn't they be on (or on "safety") when approaching a potentially hostile area?

Great that Travis has a scene, unfortunately not really with any other crew members.

The remake of "The Wages of Fear" was called "Sorcerer", and not as good.

Now I know why they call him "Trip" -- he sure freaks out a lot, then Archer has to talk him down. (Third time, by my count).

Funny that I previously observed that they have a lot of eating scenes in this show, and now they feature an alien species where the act is considered disgusting in public.

How did the alien web actually connect to the crewmen? If it was a surface connection, seems like it would have been more effective to attach at the most exposed area, the face.

The security guard did have a line. When he and Malcolm were in the armory working on the force field, Malcolm asks him to make some adjustment, and he responds, "Yes, sir," or something similiar. But it appeared that the line was dubbed in -- a common runaround to keep from paying an extra the extra money given to an actor with lines.

The treatment of the eating taboo was, in my view, flawless!
1. Dramatically, they presaged it with the linguistic coincidence. (BTW, the English words mate and eat are not all that dissimilar either.)
2. The parallel to mating is rational. Mating is the first step in perpetuating the species by creating new members. Eating is the (equally intimate) first step in perpetuating the individual by replacing lost cells.
3. The public eating taboo itself is not irrational. After all, we have our own taboo against urinating in public.
4. Our excretory taboo parallels mating. Cf. G. Carlin, "Seven Words You Can Never Say on Television."
5. The alien captain argued his point ably from his point of view. He had no reason to point out the circumstances because, to him, they were implicit.
"Why am I being arrested?"
"For urinating in the swimming pool."
"Everybody urinates in the pool."
"Not from the diving board."

Soul Inflicted: It sure didn't seem like Travis was even seen eating with the Kreestassan. He sure wasn't even in the hallway, afterward.
Luigi Novi: Just because he wasn’t in the hallway doesn’t mean he wasn’t in the Mess Hall with them. He simply could’ve stayed behind. Reed wasn’t in the hallway either, but both he and Travis indicated during their Mess Hall scene with Hoshi in Act 1 that they were present with the Kreetassans:

Travis: "What if they just don’t like being touched? Remember how uncomfortable they looked when the Captain tried to shake their hands?"
Reed: "They looked like that the entire time. Besides, they didn’t really lose their temper until they arrived here in the Mess Hall."

But this may raise another nit: Don’t visiting guests to the Enterprise usually dine in the Captain’s Dining Room, as in Fusion and Oasis? Now perhaps the Kreetassans were being walked by the crew towards the Dining Room, and had to walk through the Mess Hall to get there, but as soon as they saw everyone eating in the Mess, turned on their heels and stormed out, but if that’s the case, and Reed witnessed both their behavior before and after arriving at the Mess Hall, that would indicate that he was among those escorting them, as opposed to simply having been eating the Mess when they arrived (because then couldn’t have asserted that they only became upset when they arrived there). So if he was among the escorts, why wasn’t he in the hallway?

Hans Thielman: Kreestassans probably don't have many restaurants on their homeworld.
Luigi Novi: Either that, or manufacturing cubicles is a booming business on their planet.

Machiko Jenkins (Mjenkins): I didn't get the impression that they reproduce via the mouth. What I got was the sense that they regard eating the same way they do sexual intercourse. That is, to be done in private, not in front of huge crowds.
Luigi Novi: That’s how I interpreted it.

Machiko Jenkins: Luigi, IIRC, the security guy in the web did have a name and did have dialogue. I believe it was Archer who referred to him by name (which I don't recall), and asked him how Kelly was doing. To which he replied that she was still breathing.
Luigi Novi: No, the guy in the web you’re referring to is Michael Rostov, the young engineer who was first to be captured in Act 1 when looking for the blown relay that Kelly told him to fix, not the security guard who was captured along with Archer and Trip in Act 2, who looked a bit older than Rostov.

Trike: The security guard did have a line. When he and Malcolm were in the armory working on the force field, Malcolm asks him to make some adjustment, and he responds, "Yes, sir," or something similiar.
Luigi Novi: Trike, I think they were talking about the first security guard, Caucasian one with the rifle who was captured in Act 2 with the others, not the African American one who assisted Reed with the force field in Acts 3 and 4.

Influx: How did the alien web actually connect to the crewmen? If it was a surface connection, seems like it would have been more effective to attach at the most exposed area, the face.
Luigi Novi: My guess was that it connected to their nervous systems through the head and face.

Soooooo, these Kreestassans eat & mate & talk with their mouths. This means that one opening leads to the lungs, stomach & reproductive organs. While not necesarily impossible it would seem to hamper the chances of surviving & reproducing as food, liquid & reproductive elements could wind up going down the wrong pipe.

*snicker* There are SO many jokes I could make about that statement I don't even know where to begin!

P.S. I liked this episode very much indeed. There seems to be no middle ground with this ep.It's like the movie Fight Club. Everyone who's seen it either loves it, or hates it with a passion.

SMI - "Reed pulls out a tricorder, waves it at Crewman Kelly, and declares "She's alive." This would have been news, if we hadn't heard her give a loud moan several seconds before. Guess all that practice on the target range has done a number on Reed's hearing. :-)"

A dead body, when compressed by either and outside force (the fettuccini creature) or and inside force (rigor mortis), can emit a moan, much like a bagpipe or accordion when filled with air and then compressed.

Luigi Novi - "And how in the WORLD did such a custom evolve? Customs often evolve from ancient circumstance. Tattoos, for example, used to be the domain of the rich, because they were so expensive. When it ceased being expensive, it lost that status. Given the way the first ancient people of a species evolve—often eating, sleeping and even mating in close quarters in front of one another, one has to wonder how the ancient Kreetassan equivalent of the Neanderthals lived, or how and why this attitude came about."

Tattooing is in no way similar. In the cultures where tattoos originated they identified the displayed the family, tribe, or profession of the wearer, or warded off sickness or infection, or signified any number of things. Sailors from Europe liked these tattoos and so were tattooed themselves. From the sailors then did they gradually move to other parts of society.

Luigit: If this creature lives on a planet, and evolved in that environment, then how could the portion that attached itself to the Kreetassan ship have survived when it went into outer space?
We have no idea what kind of atmosphere the creature's planet has. It could be very thin and very similar to outer space.

Luigi: In the final shot of the episode, we see the shuttlepod lift off from the planet. Apparently, the crew chose for their landing spot, a clearing that was surrounded entirely by the creature. Shouldn’t they have instead picked a spot at the edge where the creature ended?
The creature did give them exact coordinates to drop it off. Perhaps it was the only place that they could land. Or maybe the creature covers most of the planet.

JoshM: I think this episode confirms that SIFs and IDFs are different types of forcefields than the forcefields used for the brig and to repel energy and matter (deflector forcefields)
Luigi Novi: How so?

I just found it unlikely that they could develop the SIF and IDF before the "shield field". Not to mention that Cochrane had to have invented the SIF and IDF for the Phoenix 90 years before, long before the forcefield we see in this episode.

Chief Sharky: Poor Hoshi, too bad she had to slog through learning those aliens language when it seems they picked up English in a snap!
Luigi Novi: How is it in a snap? Hoshi only had whatever amount of time the Kreetassans were on the ship up until dinner. The Kreetassans had the time to go over the Enterprise’s database for hours, perhaps a day, after they left. They may also have more sophisticated translators.
Well, the alien captain did say that figuring out English was not difficult.

KAM: Soooooo, these Kreestassans eat & mate & talk with their mouths. This means that one opening leads to the lungs, stomach & reproductive organs. While not necesarily impossible it would seem to hamper the chances of surviving & reproducing as food, liquid & reproductive elements could wind up going down the wrong pipe.
Well, we have two pipes. They could have three.

Maybe the Captain's Dining Room is too small for the visiting Kreestassans and so Archer took them to the Mess Hall for more space.


And yes, the tendril is a patient.

Luigi: If this creature lives on a planet, and evolved in that environment, then how could the portion that attached itself to the Kreetassan ship have survived when it went into outer space?
Josh:We have no idea what kind of atmosphere the creature's planet has. It could be very thin and very similar to outer space.

True. Remember, at the end, they are all wearing environmental suits. Which brings up what looked like a nit to me. It looked like Dr. Phlox' helmet wasn't attached when they were on the planet.

Second planetside nit. The lockbox for the main portion of the creature looked AWFULLY small for the size of it that we saw in the Cargo Bay.

The crew knows that this creature is sensitive to light. So what does the landing party do when they arrive on its homeworld? Walk around with FLASHLIGHTS blazing from the helmets of their environmental suits!

Hoshi says it looks like the lifeform is giving her Lat/Long coordinates. How does she know what the Prime Meridian is? Latitude is fairly easy.

All of my nits have been taken, but I want to repeat one, in order to go into more detail. When Dr. Phlox tells them that the creature is sensitive to EM radiation, T'pol asks Reed if he can set up some EM emmitters. There are EM emmitters all over the ship. A light bulb is an EM emmitter. So is a communicator, a laser, and a microwave oven. Even a warm body. It is possible that as he was telling them this, Phlox was also showing them the specifications of what band-range and intensity, but there is no indication of this. Based only on the conversation, which did seem to imply that Phlox meant in the visible light range, I almost expected Reed to answer T'Pol with, "Do you mean flashlights?" (Actually, since Reed is English, he would more likey say "torches.").

And how in the WORLD did such a custom [the tabu against eating in public] evolve? Customs often evolve from ancient circumstance. Tattoos, for example, used to be the domain of the rich, because they were so expensive. When it ceased being expensive, it lost that status. Luigi

Actually tattoing (and decorating the body in general) is exactly how such a custom would get its start. If a person decorates his body to commemorate a brave deed, or to show off his wealth, then at some point to not be decorated becomes a mark of shame: the person is too poor to afford the decoration or too cowardly to earn it. At some point, the meaning is lost, but the shame remains and you have a nudity tabu. In finding a new meaning for banning nudity, the public display of certain body parts and activities involving them comes to the fore, and other, similar acts are also forbidden.

-----

Like some of the others here, I did pick up the image that for the Kreestassans oral sex and reproductive sex were the same thing, but I realized almost immediately that there were other possibilities. It could be that almost any food can be an aphrodisiac. Or it could be that (maybe because of the evolution of their language bringing the words for eating and mating so close in pronunciation) eating has become a displaced symbol for sex (which has happened in our own culture, though to a lesser extent how many slo-mo shots can you think of where a beautiful woman put a fruit [strawberries and bananas are the leading favorites] or other food in her mouth.)

-----

And about Reed "backing down" from his confrontation with Phlox too soon, I don't see it that way.

While the Enterprise is the first ship able to travel at Warp 5, Starfleet is probably not a new service. In all likelihood it began shortly after Cochrane's flight as a branch of the Air Force, and quickly established itself as a separate service branch. [This is my own speculation, based in part on the origin of the Air Force itself. I am aware that it doesn't explain the use of naval terminolgy.] Even if Starfleet is relatively new, it has had hundreds of years of military regulations to fall back on in trying circumstances. Some of those protocols specify circumstances when a doctor even if he is an ensign or a civilian, outranks a superior officer, even if she is an admiral.

Reed did not cave at the first sign of resistance from the doctor. He kept it up until Dr Phlox gave up trying to use reason and started using Malcolm's strengths against him. When he reminded Red about those regulations, he knew that Malcolm's "by-the-book" respect for them would force him to see past his emotions, even as reasoning had failed to do so.

It actually helps to define Reed in much the same way as some of his encounters with Dr McCoy helped to define Spock. If the writers are smart, they will put Reed into several circumstances (like Shuttlepod One) where he has to learn to throw away the rulebook, but at the same time have his respect for protocol be vindicated just enough so that he always turns to it first.

Okay, so if that was the engineer and the security flunkie...is it conceivable that Kelly was near death and that the engineer was still in reasonably good health? Shouldn't he be worse off than her, since he got taken first?

All of the men remained conscious during the entire ordeal, but Kelly lost consciousness during the brief time between her being "attacked" and the "rescuers" arriving. Either something happened to her that was cut out of the script, or we are supposed to assume that her resistance is weaker. Either way, it is likely that afterward her physical condition deteriorated faster than the others because she was not awake to "fight" against, or to share her mental energy with the creature.

Gaaaahhh! I distinctly remember Trip telling the Captain at one point that the flunkie/engineer/third male person was unconscious at one point!

And I'd swear Trip was too, near the end.

Ah, what do I care? I'm supposed to be seeing Spiderboy today with Morgan.

Watch as I cheer enthusiastically. Whoo.

S. Donaldson: Tattooing is in no way similar.
Luigi Novi: I didn’t say it was. I merely offered an example of how some customs evolve, and wondered how could this taboo against public eating come about when the first sentient humanoids in a species presumably do everything together, that’s all.

Luigi: If this creature lives on a planet, and evolved in that environment, then how could the portion that attached itself to the Kreetassan ship have survived when it went into outer space?

JoshM: We have no idea what kind of atmosphere the creature's planet has. It could be very thin and very similar to outer space.
Luigi Novi: True, but there was a sun very close to the planet. How could it survive in the cold of space?

JoshM: I just found it unlikely that they could develop the SIF and IDF before the "shield field". Not to mention that Cochrane had to have invented the SIF and IDF for the Phoenix 90 years before, long before the forcefield we see in this episode.
Luigi Novi: Oh yeah. Funny, since I brought that up as a nit myself for ST FC!

Reliable Data: The crew knows that this creature is sensitive to light. So what does the landing party do when they arrive on its homeworld? Walk around with FLASHLIGHTS blazing from the helmets of their environmental suits!
Luigi Novi: And oddly, there’s a sun either setting or rising in the scene.

TomM: In all likelihood [Starfleet] began shortly after Cochrane's flight as a branch of the Air Force, and quickly established itself as a separate service branch. I am aware that it doesn't explain the use of naval terminolgy.
Luigi Novi: There are pilots in the Navy. Perhaps many of the original founders of Starfleet were ex-Navy mean, and that’s where the influence came from.

And I appreciated your alternate viewpoint on Reed and Phlox, Tom. I just wish they’d put more interesting character stuff like what I suggested.

MJ: Okay, so if that was the engineer and the security flunkie...is it conceivable that Kelly was near death and that the engineer was still in reasonably good health? Shouldn't he be worse off than her, since he got taken first?
Luigi Novi: Good point, MJ. Perhaps she hit her head as the creature grabbed her by the legs and pulled her down to the ground? Or perhaps she’s allergic to alfredo sauce?

TomM: All of the men remained conscious during the entire ordeal, but Kelly lost consciousness during the brief time between her being "attacked" and the "rescuers" arriving.
Luigi Novi: But she was still unconscious when Archer asked Rostov how she was doing.

MJ: Ah, what do I care? I'm supposed to be seeing Spiderboy today with Morgan. Watch as I cheer enthusiastically. Whoo.
Luigi Novi: Hope you like camp.

ScottN: Hoshi says it looks like the lifeform is giving her Lat/Long coordinates. How does she know what the Prime Meridian is? Latitude is fairly easy.

:: Thank you! They've been getting away with this for years. Somebody had to stop them.

JoshM: And yes, the tendril is a patient.

:: I thought so to, at first. But I can't see that it's being treated for anything, and I've concluded that it's a lab rat. Doesn't matter. Medical status is a medical decision and is not subject to command review, so what Phlox says about anything under his "care", goes.

BTW, this kind of autonomy in one's bailiwick is not limited to medics. Pilots, sentinels and MPs, members of courts martial, and numerous others are exempt from outside command influence.

Yeah, Brian, there were any number of comments I could have made as well. ;-)

Josh M, the problem wasn't the number of pipes simply the possibility of choking (food, water or 'other' going down the windpipe) or the 'waste' of a reproductive element going into the stomach. And what would happen if air, food or liquid ended up in the reproduction chamber?

However the 3 sets of pipes does bring up another issue. In Humans the two pipes are seperated by a simple flap which usually covers one pipe or the other. If the Kreestassens have three pipes then they must have a more complex seperator.
And if they do mate through the mouth, then they must either mate very fast or be able to hold their breaths for longer than Humans.

Heh, anyone mind if I point out a nit of my own?

Towards the end of the episode, when the alien is releasing the captured crew members, we can see everyone's outfits, particularly Trip and Archer's. Nice blue uniforms. Buuuuuut... when they went INTO the cargo bay in the first place, Archer's wearing red civvies, and Trip's wearing tan

How nice that the alien let them wear more proper clothing while all tangled up!

Whoa, GOOD ONE, Liz!

And thanks Tom and TJ for your opinions on the Reed/Phlox matter.

The alien can be described in one word: Bukkake (please, for your own sake, don't look that up if you don't already know the meaning)

One thing no one else has mentioned, but I thought the music in this episode was particuarly well-done. The violin theme used throughout was a nice touch!

Camp, Luigi? What camp?

We were the sixth and seventh persons into the theater.

Despite the paranoia on someone's part that we'd be standing on top of five layers of people.

I also enjoyed the music of the episode. It is nice to see them using different music styles.

• Well, we've tried the "ask questions first, shoot later" bit in TNG's "Avatar", where that crazy old chick killed the Crystalline Entity to avenge her son. And here, now it's "shoot first, ask questions later".
I was hearing Picard during Hoshi's "I can talk to it! Really I can!"
Picard from "Avatar" saying (and I'm paraphrasing), "It is NOT EVIL... It is like the sperm whale of Earth..."
• Hoshi is like the "Toonces The Driving Cat" of Enterprise. She can translate ANYTHING... but often "just not very well".

MJenkins-

I'm assuming that Luigi meant that the Spidey movie was "campy" as in maybe a little corny or silly. Am I right, Luigi?

Camp (kamp): n. A comical style or quality perceived in theatrical or flamboyant gestures, literary works, etc.

Richie, this board is up to 101k.

ScottN: Hoshi says it looks like the lifeform is giving her Lat/Long coordinates. How does she know what the Prime Meridian is? Latitude is fairly easy.

:: Thank you! They've been getting away with this for years. Somebody had to stop them.

Who's been getting away with this? I don't remember all that many references to latitudes and longitudes. How the Prime Meridian is established might vary. It might be wherever the sun is overhead at the time the cartography section is preparing its preliminary maps. Then the information is transmitted to the captain's personal web site...

...speaking of which, we haven't seen any reference to anything like the Internet in any of the Trek series. It would have been most helpful in the last season of DS9, especially that one where O'Brien gets assigned some espionage duty...

...getting back to this episode, this might be a planet with a day=year, so the sun is always overhead at one spot; or, there might be one moon whose orbital period is the same as the planet's rotational period. Or there might be some geographic feature which serves as a Prime Meridian.

In a scene we didn't see, Hoshi asks what the Prime Meridian is, and the creature provides an explanation.

I was thinking maybe the planet had an advanced civilization and this was some mutant or genetically engineered creature which went out of control, the civilization couldn't stop it and was destroyed, leaving only the creature exploring the ruins of a once mighty civilization...

Fanfic, anyone?

At the beginning, the explanation seems to be, "You eat like you mate." I think that was the line. But how do the aliens know how the humans mate? It's not a correct description anyway; usually, we eat in public and mate in private. So the alien's explanation isn't consistent with what was said before. Maybe they have a taboo against men and women eating together.

It might be that the alien captain was uncomfortable discussing it and the explanation he gave was incomplete, and Mayweather didn't want to take any chances asking for further clarification.

we haven't seen any reference to anything like the Internet in any of the Trek series.

The closest I can think of is "Future's End", and that took place in 1996.

Perhaps subspace radio can't support the kind of traffic a fully active Federation-wide Internet would require. But even so, each planet should have its own Internet, and every Starship and Starbase should have its own Intranet. Yet not only haven't we seen evidence of it, but we have seen counter-evidence. (Like the scene where a report is hand-carried all through the ship on a Padd.)

Dan Gunther: I'm assuming that Luigi meant that the Spidey movie was "campy" as in maybe a little corny or silly. Am I right, Luigi?
Luigi Novi: As rain, Dan. But MJ and I often share sarcastic pun-related banter on AIM, and I assumed that’s what she was doing here.

stephen: ...speaking of which, we haven't seen any reference to anything like the Internet in any of the Trek series.
Luigi Novi: Past Tense part II(DS9).

stephen: Fanfic, anyone?
Luigi Novi: Sure! But the type of fanfic I write involving Hoshi has nothing to do with civilizations. Or creatures. Or even being on a ship or in outer space…

stephen: ...speaking of which, we haven't seen any reference to anything like the Internet in any of the Trek series.
Luigi Novi: Past Tense part II(DS9).

Thank you, Luigi!

The ship's theater, I believe, is a redress of the mess hall set. Is it supposed to be a separate room on the ship, or does the mess hall have a drop-down screen to convert it to a theater? (I would think the latter, as it is the most effecient design.)
I was very pleased to see Archer and Trip drinking beer and watching water polo. I just hope that Archer has real beer aboard, not that undrinkable non-alcoholic garbage.

Highly OT, but I thoroughly enjoyed the Spider-Man flick.

Well, Travis described the Fettucini Alfredo creature as a giant "web," so it's possible the creators scheduled this episode to coincide with the movie as a tip of the hat.

And Adam, I was wondering why characters keep making references to seeing a movie once or week, or "next week." If they're in the computer, as Kelly mentions to Rostov, couldn't they have them all the time? Your theory that the screening room is the converted Mess Hall would explain that. It would also explain SMT's nit that it isn't tiered or slanted. Kudos.

It would be nice to have a security chief or armory officer who was technically proficient in weapons. Reed's initial encounter with the fettuccine, could have had gone a bit differently, but not changed the overall story. He could have rapidly fired off a half dozen shots, but be forced to back off when too many tendrils overwhelmed him.

Maybe the next time Enterprise goes back to Earth they can pick up Guinan (unless she's left since Mark Twain got on her nerves). She kicked Warf's butt in the holo-phaser range and I don't think they're renewing her contract on Hollywood Squares.

Oh and Liz, that nit about the clothes was very nice.

Maybe it makes seeing the movie seem more special if they schedule the movies for certain times? It makes people feel a little more like they're back on Earth where they have to go to a movie theater to see a movie? (They don't have to, it's just more special that way.) They might still have those large elaborately decorated theaters and amphitheaters with skyboxes, etc.

Hey, nobody mentioned the stardate is
"Supplemental". No real date! Or are you guys tired of pointing it out?

I think there was a "Supplemental" in "Civilization". Have any of the episodes given a specific date and then a "Supplemental" later in the episode?

In TOS I assumed "Supplemental" was used when the stardate was the same to within one digit. But here there's no excuse.

They just are too lazy to figure out how long it would take to go from one star system to another, even though they didn't name any stars; they're too lazy to look up names of real stars, I think.

Part of the problem, stephen, is that they don't have stardates yet, so they have to use Gregorian dates, and can't fudge the time the way they did in the other series.

I was seriously considering passing up TNG's "Chain Of Command, Part 2" to watch this ep;
in the end I decided to catch the repeat Saturday. Good call; I wasn't missing much.
I bet the same people who trashed Voyager's "Macrocosm" _liked_ this one.
"When Bakula asked Trip what was on his mind I half expected the response to be, 'I love you too, sir!'"
_I_ expected it to be: "Game over, man! GAME OVER!"

I bet the same people who trashed Voyager's "Macrocosm" _liked_ this one.

Yeah, but Macrocosm had the T-Shirted Janeway-as-Ripley (guilty pleasure time!).

I thought they were both average episodes, to be honest.

stephen: Maybe it makes seeing the movie seem more special if they schedule the movies for certain times?
Luigi Novi: Well, I think each person should choose their own system for that, rather than having it imposed on them. Also, if that's true, and they're always on the same day of the week, which it seems here, then if anyone has the night shift on a regular basis on that day, they're constantly gonna miss out.

stephen: Hey, nobody mentioned the stardate is "Supplemental". No real date! Or are you guys tired of pointing it out?
Luigi Novi: The log is supplemental, not the date. How can a date be "supplemental"? It is the log that is an added, or "extra" log to the regular one of the day. Saying a date is supplemental, simply because the latter is said where the former normally is, makes no sense. For some reason, Phil also referred to dates as "supplemental" in his Guides.

Steven of None: I bet the same people who trashed Voyager's "Macrocosm" _liked_ this one.
Luigi Novi: Not me. Liked the former (except for that godawful music in the closing shot), but didn't care for this.

Steven of None: I bet the same people who trashed Voyager's "Macrocosm" _liked_ this one.
Luigi Novi: Not me. Liked the former (except for that godawful music in the closing shot), but didn't care for this.

Then that doesn't really apply to you, does it?


Here's what I think about the movie; I think that while the crew can watch movies at a different time, it creates more of a sense of camraderie if they watch the movie together.

Mind you, there is no evidence to back this up, just my opinion...

I agree. Watching a movie with a theater full of people (the kind that don't talk and have their cell phones on vibrate, mind you), always enhances the experience.

Luigi: Agreed. For example, I enjoyed The Phantom Menace a LOT more when I was watching it with 200 freakin' fans then I EVER did watching it at home.

ScottN: Hoshi says it looks like the lifeform is giving her Lat/Long coordinates. How does she know what the Prime Meridian is? Latitude is fairly easy.

TJF: Thank you! They've been getting away with this for years. Somebody had to stop them.

Stephen: Who's been getting away with this? I don't remember all that many references to latitudes and longitudes.

:: Not just longitudes per se; I've heard (but can't cite off the top of my head) references to "eastern continent," "western hemisphere," and the like. The simple explanation is low-technobabble.

And finally, a reasonable answer to my long-ago question: why do they keep track of weeks? So they know when it's movie night!

Trike: Kelly, who's a crewman and not an officer, appeared to be in charge of Engineering.
Luigi Novi: How was it established that she’s only a crewman?

Soul Inflicted: Travis' "description" of the lifeform was horrendous. I would have described it as a white cocoon-like substance as seen in the movie Aliens. But, of course, since the Kreestassan most likely have not seen the movie Aliens why not just show the captain a picture of the creature? Wouldn't someone have at least filmed the thing if there were no security cameras in the cargo bay?
Luigi Novi: Travis described it as a mass of tentacles, which is descriptive enough for the Kreestassan captain to understand what he was talking about. I don’t expect every room on the ship to have cameras, nor do I expect the crew to film it while trying to free their crewmen, because they probably don’t see how that will help. They’re more interested in studying it, trying to communicate it, and trying to see what weapons will repel/contain it. While filming it wouldn’t be a bad idea per se, it’s not something that immediately comes up when trying to do one of these three things.

Luigi Novi: In the final shot of the episode, we see the shuttlepod lift off from the planet. Apparently, the crew chose for their landing spot, a clearing that was surrounded entirely by the creature. Shouldn’t they have instead picked a spot at the edge where the creature ended?

JoshM: The creature did give them exact coordinates to drop it off. Perhaps it was the only place that they could land. Or maybe the creature covers most of the planet.
Luigi Novi: Doubtful. If that were the case, then why would it have specified latitude and longtitude coordinates to Hoshi? If it covered the entire planet, the crew could’ve just flew low, opened up the shuttlepod door, and dropped it just anywhere on the planet. The fact that it needed to specify specifc point on the planet (despite the fact that Kreestassans already gave Travis the planet’s coordinates).

MJ: Okay, so if that was the engineer and the security flunkie...is it conceivable that Kelly was near death and that the engineer was still in reasonably good health? Shouldn't he be worse off than her, since he got taken first?
Luigi Novi: Another possibility that occurred to me is that she was struggling more, and doing so made it tighten around her more, like quicksand.

Or she realized what being in an episode where she’s captured by a giant order of fettucini alfredo would do for her acting career.

stephen: I don't remember all that many references to latitudes and longitudes.
Luigi Novi: She did say it, Stephen. She said it was giving her coordinates, which she believed were latitude and longitude.

Kelly, who's a crewman and not an officer, appeared to be in charge of Engineering. - Trike

She was checking a console and went to replace what she suspected was a blown relay (that takes ten minutes to fix). That's a big leap to being in charge of Engineering.


How was it established that she’s only a crewman? - Luigi

After her com to Archer is abruptly cut, Archer calls, "Crewman?" And I think Phlox refers to her as Crewman Kelly towards the end.


Wouldn't someone have at least filmed the thing if there were no security cameras in the cargo bay? - Soul Inflicted

It was stated that the creature had affected both the power and com systems in the cargo bay. Obviously the visual sensors were down as well. This is further supported by the fact that they were looking at some kind of scans in the Situation Room rather than a video image.


If that were the case, then why would it have specified latitude and longtitude coordinates to Hoshi? - Luigi

Then I think you just answered your own question. The reason they landed there is because those were the coordinates the creature gave them to land.

Darth Sarcasm: She was checking a console and went to replace what she suspected was a blown relay (that takes ten minutes to fix). That's a big leap to being in charge of Engineering.
Trike's point was that she was manning the MAIN console, that she ordered (it's possible that she simply urged} Rostov to complete a repair, and that she answered for Engineering when Rostov tried to call for help.

Darth Sarcasm: After her com to Archer is abruptly cut, Archer calls, "Crewman?" And I think Phlox refers to her as Crewman Kelly towards the end.
Luigi Novi: I double-checked. Right on both counts. Thanks, Darth.

Darth Sarcasm: The reason they landed there is because those were the coordinates the creature gave them to land.
Luigi Novi: But why would the creature need them to drop it off at a specific point if it covers the entire planet?

I’ve heard of transparent villains, but this is ridiculous
After it has migrated to the cargo bay and is rendered with props, the creature is opaque white. Prior to that, when when rendered by CGI, it is partially transparent.

But why would the creature need them to drop it off at a specific point if it covers the entire planet? - Luigi

I never said it encompassed the entire planet. JoshM suggested that, then you dismissed it, so I offered another reason why they landed the ship there: because the creature asked them to.

Even if the creature encompassed the entire planet, perhaps there is only a particular part of the cerature that allows its pieces to be rejoined. Or maybe that's where it lost its piece. Who knows why? Does it matter?

Well, yeah, I mean, we are nitpickers...

Then you may as well "nitpick" Close Encounters because the aliens chose Devil's Tower as the site for contact.

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Quote:

Luigi Novi: But why would the creature need them to drop it off at a specific point if it covers the entire planet?

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Re: lat/long.

Generally they've been avoiding that by using the generic term "coordinates". That could include a specification. Here, Hoshi specifically referred to lat/long. As I said, longitude is a subjective thing, determined by the (arbitrary) Prime Meridian.

Mark, wouldn't it just get out of the way no matter what location the crew decided to hover their shuttlepod over?

Darth Sarcasm: Then you may as well "nitpick" Close Encounters because the aliens chose Devil's Tower as the site for contact.
Luigi Novi: Thanks, that's next on my list...

Seriously, though they don't seem like the same situation to me, Darth. Obviously, it makes sense that the aliens in Close Encounters chose a place out in the desert, rather near a major city, where they could be easily seen. It also adds to the mysteriousness of the aliens.

Here, the alien isn't picking a place on Earth for it to land, it's selecting a spot for our guys to drop off a small portion of it, which doesn't make much sense if, in Brian's scenario, it covers the entire planet. And if it doesn't cover the entire planet, then it brings us back to my original question: Why did the crew pick a clearing that was surrounded entirely by the creature, rather than simply land where the creature ended?

Richie, this board is up to 138k.

Again, Luigi, the reason the crew landed the shuttlepod there was because the creature directed them to. The reasons why are its own. It can be any number of unspecified reasons.

Yes, you're absolutely right in that the Devil's Tower location makes sense in that context. But my point is that this is just speculation. We don't know why the aliens chose that location. And you can make arguments against your theory (if they wanted it to be a secret, why alert so many commonfolk?). We have just as much information about their motivation for that location as we do for the Vox Sola alien's motivation for its location.

I suggested a few possibilities. None of which have anything to do with the size of the creature.

I just don't consider this a nit. It's just unknown information.