Since Travis is apparently taken on this big secret mission of T'Pol's (I know, I know, PAL), it might stand to reason that he'll get a little more screen time than normal. Of course, looking at the previes photos on startrek.com makes me wonder if that's a good thing.
Ministry of Security, eh? Makes ya wonder what T'Pol was really doing as part of the Vulcan embassy to Earth.
What IS it with starfleet in this age? They can't contemplate a 3 day wait without becoming impatient even after being told it's top secret that they do so.
I am not finished watching it, but why would the vulcans worry about honor. Are they supposed to be Intellectual Klingons. Also wouldn't it make more sense to send a security opporative the fugitive had not seen.
Hopefully, the show board will be up soon. Until then, my nits go here.
When T'Pol got that initial call, she was reading in bed. Her caller asked "Did I wake you?" and T'Pol replied "It's all right." Why the evasive answer, when she could simply and truthfully have said "No"?
Archer may say he's watching water polo, but with such a small screen, situated well across the room and out of his line of sight while he's bouncing a ball of the wall(doesn't the person in the next cabin over complain?), it's not what I call "watching".
As much on guard as T'Pol was in the inn when hunting down Menos, she got tossed aside quite easily by that alien. You'd think she would have been ready to hurl him across the room, Vulcan-judo-style.
I'm not sure what T'Pol thinks a strip of cloth wrapped around her feet will do against acid that her boots won't.
So T'Pol has been to P'Jem before. I'm surprised that none of the Vulcans there recognized her(I don't imagine they're all new: Vulcan monasteries don't seem like they'd have a high turnover rate) when she visited before. Of course, maybe they were being diplomatic about the embarrassing reason for her first visit, but if her memories were successfully suppressed, would there still be any shame attached to her? And if this place has such negative associations for T'Pol, I'm surprised she didn't try to discourage Archer's visit there a little more.
Archer once again embodies the high standards of Starfleet, by letting a prisoner kneel to the floor, throw a latch, open a hatch, and drop through it, all while Archer's holding a phase pistol directly at the man, and does not stun him. Then he stands by while the man is fleeing, and instead of shooting him, encourages T'Pol to do so instead, when it's uncertain that she'll listen. Oy.
Not bad.
At the start of the episode, the Vulcan female asks T’Pol something along the line if she woke her up. T’Pol answers something along the line that it doesn’t matter, implying that she was indeed sleeping. But she wasn’t sleeping. Why didn’t she just answer the more logical “No”? Actually, this episode seems to have a pattern of T’Pol refusing to give straight answers which may have been the intent of the writers.
When Archer is bouncing the water polo ball off the door in his quarters, the door seems to give a little each time the ball impacts and then bounces back. Is it supposed to do that?
Archer turns off his video screen with a button above his bed. That seems to be an unusual place to put a power button – I would think it a bit awkward to press when lying in bed. Also, you would think a remote control would be more logical.
Menos shows a hologram of his family. I wonder. I would assume his wife is not Vulcan because otherwise I would suspect the Vulcan High Command would be after her too. Now, if she isn’t Vulcan, are these his children? Does his wife know he is a Vulcan? You would suspect so since his children would have Vulcan features. Of course, this may not be his family or maybe his children are adopted or whatever. I’m just curious.
The Enterprise gang chase Menos into his ship and then they all barrel into the cargo bay. This would have been very convenient if Menos had been hiding on the bridge as then he could just lock them all in. Come on people. Tuvok could at least blame Neelix for his lack of concentration.
Archer and T’Pol have a long, important conversation in the cargo bay. The radioactive cargo bay. This is not where I would want to have a long conversation.
And, finally, what exactly happened to the virus inoculations that Phlox wanted? And did Archer, T’Pol and Mayweather have to get them when they got back? Darn it, I want my diarrhea humor!
And, finally, what exactly happened to the virus inoculations that Phlox wanted? And did Archer, T’Pol and Mayweather have to get them when they got back? Darn it, I want my diarrhea humor!
I thought for sure Trip would use that as the excuse why the Captain was indisposed for 4 days ... "He just got inoculated and it had some rather, uh, unpleasant effects ..." Not that his actual solution wasn't amusing ...
T'Pol seems kinda emotional for a Vulcan, don't you think?
In this episode anyway.
T'Pol is not your average Vulcan.
The interior of Menos's ship seems a lot bigger on the inside than on the outside. I know that we didn't get a good view of the exterior, but was there really room for both the cargo bay and the hidden room without having something poke out of the side of the ship?
Wow. All this time I thought ENT had a bigger budget than DS9 or VOY, but in this episode they fill up some AQUAFINA bottles with green liquid and call it a biological weapon!!!
This was a nice episode though, at least it didn't have too many loose ends left open. And it finally gave Jolene Blalock some real depth to play through - I think she did an excellent job, though something like what Spock did in "The Naked Now" with regards to his loss of control (his scene in the briefing room) would have been more "Vulcan."
And, finally, what exactly happened to the virus inoculations that Phlox wanted? And did Archer, T’Pol and Mayweather have to get them when they got back? Darn it, I want my diarrhea humor!
Speaking as one who just recovered from it, no you don't!
47 alert. The final score of the Water Polo match was 7-4. (Don't remember if Stanford or Cal won).
Apparently the Mexican Standoff is obsolete in the future. When Archer and Mayweather deactivate the holowall, we see Menos aiming a weapon at T'Pol. T'Pol then turns and aims her phase pistol at him. So they are pointing at each other. He then orders her to put down her weapon, and she does. Why? It should be a standoff, and she can always call Archer to end it in her favor.
And speaking of phase pistols, what happened to the stun setting? T'Pol regrets killing that guy on Risa, and then at the end Menos talks like she's about to kill him with the pistol (I know he could just be referring to his being taken back to Vulcan, but earlier he specifically referred to his being shot as a separate fear). At the end of the episode T'Pol KNOWS he's an evil villain. Why is she afraid to shoot? Once she does, he's stunned. Is that really why she brought Archer? To remind her to "set phasers to stun"?
Okay, not a bad episode, but marred by a few things. They found Menos pretty quickly, but then wasn't it convenient with the person in charge informing Archer and the rest that the landing area was being treated with some technobabble acid and they had to stay in the bar for another four hours. Couldn't the writers come up with a better plot convenience than that?
It appears that T'Pol's troubles centered around the fact she shot somebody while pursuing Menos. Why didn't her weapon have a stun setting? Then again, when Menos was escaping again at the end of the episode (and not moving all that fast, I'd say), T'Pol again was reluctant to shoot because of the guilt she felt the first time. But her weapon was on stun! She was simply going to stop him, not kill him.
I'm surprised that T'Pol didn't find the biotoxin. Given the state she was in, I was sure she would search everything, and not miss such a large and obvious container. Afterall, a smuggler handling biotoxins is not likely to have a lot of it, and could have "legitimate" cargo as well. Wouldn't a tricorder scan for the stuff? I don't believe it was in the hidden section of the ship.
The snow scenes looked fake. Given the amount that appeared to be falling, not a lot was sticking to Archer or T'Pol.
What caused the fire anyway? I think I missed that.
The Vulcan language as seen on the book and the screen... is that just scribbles, or has somebody gone through the effort to derive a Vulcan written language?
Tucker could have done a better job of accepting the water polo score from the Vulcan commander. He must've been aware of what the score was, given that he knows about Archer's infatuation with water polo and had mentioned it earlier when in the captain's mess room.
Shortly after the three left in the shuttlepod, Travis (I think) mentioned that the Vulcan ship was approaching the system at "high warp." It sure took a long time to get there, as I thought when he said that, the Vulcan ship might have been early and might have been involved in the events that would follow.
The Vulcan writing is consistant with other times we have seen it, although I cannot recall which times those were.
As for T'Pol killing Jossen, it seemed as if her weapon was projectile based, not phase.
The biotoxin was behind the dampening field, the same one that kept them from finding Menos (until Archer pushed the button).
For a story that involved the Vulcans, it sure spent a lot of time flying in the face of logic. Sending T'Pol to capture Menos is a matter of honor? Huh? After it took the Vulcans so long just to find him, they don't send the nearest operative. Besides, T'Pol had an emotional breakdown the first time she almost got him, so why would anybody put her in that situation again? She doesn't even work for that agency anymore! Like last week, the action was decent, the characters -- as always -- were a treat, but the plot still needed some more thinking through.
More nits and notes:
-- Davison and Blalock provide a good contrast on how Vulcans are portrayed. I thought Davison did well, at times showing little emotion and attempting to surpress it, then at others letting it show through, a sign he is a renegade among Vulcans. (I thought his role would have been bigger, but I guess there's only so much acting you can do cuffed to a table.) He did convey, though, the intensity and focus that shows through in all good Vulcan performances. I never really see that in Blalock, though. She comes across too often as passive or bored.
-- I love Travis. The strong, quiet type. He sits in the shuttlepod and doesn't interrupt T'Pol's mission briefing. He leaves the cargo hold of Menos' ship so Archer and T'Pol can talk alone. I thought at first Archer was going to replace him as mission pilot, so we wouldn't get to see him at all, as usual.
-- I greatly enjoy how we've had many episodes in a row that have made brief mentions of the previous one. This time it was Phlox and the deuterium canisters. I hope it keeps up. I also like how all the characters are appearing, even if in small roles.
-- Trip couldn't think of an excuse of where Archer was? Try these: He was ill with the virus that Phlox was innoculating the crew for. He was working intently on a high-priority report for Starfleet. His car ran out of gas. It had a flat tire. He didn't have enough money for cab fare. His tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town! Someone stole his car! There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! LOCUSTS!
Besides, couldn't have Forrest just called Archer on subspace to relay the goofy water polo score.
-- T'Pol's inability to take action was really annoying. First she lowered her weapon when she had Menos in sights on his ship, then on the platform. I just wasn't convinced of her dilemma. Shoot first and ask questions later. It worked for Kirk.
The Vulcan who contacts T'Pol says that Menos is "Less than 3 days from your present location." Ummm, at what speed? Warp 5? Impulse? Putting on a spacesuit and walking?
Archer's comments at the end seem to imply that Humans can't repress their emotions. Actually they can.
>The final score of the Water Polo match was 7-4. (Don't remember if Stanford or Cal won). <
It was Cal beating Stanford.
PaulG: And, finally, what exactly happened to the virus inoculations that Phlox wanted?
:: And I believe there was an implied promise of decontamination?
Archer's comments at the end seem to imply that Humans can't repress their emotions. Actually they can.
True, but they probably aren't as adept at it as Vulcans have been protrayed to be.
And I believe there was an implied promise of decontamination?
They probably just didn't have time to show it (I wasn't too keen on everyone cooped up in the decon chamber again, anyway).
Now isn't that a shame that we'll all have to rub jelly on each other again
When T'Pol gets back from going through Menos's ship, Archer says something like "Now you'll have to go through decontmination". Then when all three are in the ship he says "Now we'll all have to go through decon". I would think just stepping into that bar/ station and milling around all those other aliens would require decon, not just stepping into someone's ship.
Trike :Like last week, the action was decent, the characters -- as always -- were a treat, but the plot still needed some more thinking through.
I agree with you 100%. It's disappointing when during the climax of the show, the point to the whole episode, I'm yelling at the TV "Why is she having so much trouble deciding whether or not to stun (not kiill) him?"
ScottN: 47 alert. The final score of the Water Polo match was 7-4.
SMT: It was 7-3, wasn't it? I suppose you could stretch and say the margin of victory was 4 goals, but that's a long way to go to preserve a marginal 47.
SMT, I thought it was 7-4, because as soon as I heard it, I told TrekGrrl it was a 47. Of course, I could be wrong. Anybody tape this, so we can get the correct score?
Why do they allow a prisoner to keep his holographic disc? This is an electronic device of substantial size. Coupled with his "You'll never take me alive, copper!" attitude, they should have at least considered it might contain somekinda explosive. I thought when the fire started he had used that to start it.
I knew there were more involved when T'Pol mentioned six people being recovered. Since the title was "The Seventh" it kind of gave it away.
Why should a Vulcan ship be diverted just to give the captain a water polo score? Unless the Admiral is just doing it to mess with the Vulcans. 
The ending, showing Menos guilty, virtually absolves T'Pol in shooting/apprehending him. I'd have preferred a less pat conclusion.
An okay episode, but I was a bit disappointed that the episode let T’Pol off the hook too easily by revealing that Menos did indeed have biotoxins on his ship. It would’ve been far more compelling a character point if she apprehended him without knowing for certain that he was guilty, and decided to live with allowing him to be judged by the Vulcan authorities.
Why is Tavek listed at startrek.com only as "Vulcan Captain"?
Curiously, though, hair and other stuff still gets stuck under the keyboard’s face, just like Earth keyboards
When T’Pol activates the monitor in her quarters in the teaser, I noticed that the center bank of keys on the keyboard numbers only 19. (Two rows of five in the center, three underneath that, and two sets of three across the top.) There are others on the left and right and above, but that center bank would appear to be the ones for letters, and those six on top possibly the numbers. Where are all the other keys? Or is that a Vulcan keyboard that was outfitted to her monitor? If so, it may give a clue as to the Vulcan alphabet, which may be composed of 13-19 characters (Perhaps more letters share keys.)
.. ._. ----.. .. .. .._ . .. . ----. .. . ._ _.. .. _. __.----_ .... .. ... ----.. .. .. .._ . .. . ----... __ ._ . .. _ . . .. ----_ .... ._ _.----_ .... . ----.__ . .. .. _ . . .. ...
When the T’Mur sent a coded message to T’Pol’s quarters in Breaking the Ice, Trip detected it with no difficulty, but nothing indicates that anyone other than T’Pol detected the Vulcan High Command’s message to her in this episode.
Phlox tried to surgically alter her, but she kept coming out looking like Pierce Brosnan
In the third scene of Act 1, Archer asks T’Pol why she’s been the one assigned to apprehend Menos, and T’Pol responds that the Ministry considers the mission "a matter of honor." Archer responds, "How very Vulcan," and he’s right. How the hell is "a matter of honor" logical? Such a thing is clearly emotional, and sending T’Pol to catch him when Menos knows what she looks like, instead of someone else, is patently incompetent on the part of the Vulcan Ministry of Security.
---And barring sending someone else, why didn’t T’Pol have herself surgically altered so that Menos wouldn’t recognize her?
Yeah, but she knew Trip would never reveal anything to the crew because………..well, because he never gets any good lines!
I’m confused. Trip indicates in the Situation Room that they’ve been ordered to Pernaia Prime, which Hoshi says has a methane-based atmosphere. Trip then concludes that T’Pol’s mission must be on a different planet in the system, and wonders which one. Archer tells him they’re simply going to wait at Pernaia Prime while T’Pol completes her mission. Why go to one planet in the system if T’Pol is going to take a shuttlepod to a different one? It doesn’t make sense to keep the exact planet a secret from the Enterprise crew, since the Enterprise should know where they are if something goes wrong, they’re going to have the shuttlepod on sensors anyway, and Archer says in this scene that Travis is going to pilot the shuttlepod (before T’Pol asks Archer to come along, mind you).
The Vulcan Ministry of Security is run by Mrs. Kravitz from Bewitched
As in Shadows of P’Jem, Vulcan is once again established to be meddling in the affairs of other planets, despite all their supposed principles of noninterference. (Or did they simply not make any illusions back then about doing so?)
The dust on that transporter platform is really starting to get out of hand…
In the closing shot of Act 1, T’Pol’s tricorder beeps, and she tells Archer that Menos is there. First, I’m not sure what it is about Menos that the tricorder is using as a basis for a scan. (If it was his biosign, could he have done something to his body in the intervening 30 years to alter it?) Second, if a tricorder can detect him, couldn’t the Enterprise sensors do so? And even if they couldn’t, couldn’t T’Pol just transmit the coordinates from her tricorder to the Enterprise so they can beam him to the ship?
As opposed to Trip, whose incapacitation as a leader is permanent
When preparing to leave for the mission in Act 1, Archer tells Trip that he is not under any circumstances to tell the Vulcans that he went with T’Pol on the mission. When Hoshi tells Trip in Act 2 that Captain Tavek needs to speak with Archer, Trip is dumbfounded as to what to do. It took me a few seconds to think of a solution: Phlox just told Trip he detected a lymphatic virus onboard. Just tell Tavek that Archer is sick, and will be in incapacitated for three or four days.
Starfleet’s still trying to acquire the technology for VCR’s with clocks that don’t flash "12:00" all the time
Menos shows the away team a hologram of his family in Act 2, and is later found using a hologram to camouflage himself in his ship in Act 2. Just how ubiquitous is hologram technology in the 2150’s? The only reason the Xyrillians gave theirs to the Klingons in Unexpected was because the Klingons were going to kill their captain otherwise. No indication was given in that episode that Vulcans had it, and that holo certainly wasn’t made prior to Menos’ mission on Agaron, since the kids in the hologram are too young. And if he somehow managed to get it made after he went AWOL, I’d wonder why the technology can’t be acquired by Starfleet.
Ah, government math
T’Pol tells Archer in his quarters in Act 1 that the Vulcan Ministry of Security sent "hundreds" of Vulcan agents to infiltrate the criminal factions on Agaron 30 years prior. But toward the end of Act 2, Menos gives the exact number of agents as 109, not "hundreds."
Yeah, and last year, I took a trip to the "Equatorial Areas"
The refusal to provide names for anything other than planets continues. Menos tells T’Pol in Act 3 that she killed Jossen on Risa in "the Tropical Zone."
They get sent to anger management classes
Why does T’Pol tell Archer that the Fullara is "obsolete"? Does becoming disturbed by unpleasant emotions NEVER happen any more in Vulcan society? Haven’t numerous episodes, such as Broken Bow, Fusion, and this one indicated that there are Vulcans who sometimes fall victim to this?
You should see him when he uses the toilet
In Act 4, when Travis tells Archer there’s something odd going on in the cockpit, and that he noticed some condensation on a subpanel, and flips it open to reveal a working circuit. Why did Travis close it again after first finding it? Does he really feel the need to flip it open again to make a big presentation for Archer?
There’s a hell of a lot of guessing going on there
Also, the only thing in that space is a ribbed tube, connecting to a module with two blinking red lights. Even though Travis says that their scanners show everthing powered down, Archer looks at it and says, "There’s a hell of a lot of energy flowing through those circuits." How can he tell this just by looking at it? Two blinking red lights indicate "a hell of a lot of energy?"
Actually, it wasn’t. He just wanted to ask T’Pol what it did, and thought that was the comm system.
Archer then says that there’s one way to find out what that circuit does, and presses the left red button on the underside of the flip, and then the right button. Luckily for him, this was the right sequence to shut down the hologram generator, even though this is not an Earth ship, and there was no writing of any kind on that panel. Pretty good guess!
She only pointed it at him when she thought he was that guy from "Remember(VOY)." (She hates that show.)
When Menos is exposed after his hologram is deactivated, he has a gun pointed at T’Pol, and T’Pol swings around and points her phase pistol at him. Menos tells her to put down her weapon. For some reason, she actually does so, even though they have each other at a standoff!
So that’s where his "Aimless Archer" Academy nickname came from…
The sequence of events when the away team get into a firefight with Menos is almost comical. First, after ordering Archer and Travis into a locker at gunpoint, and T’Pol to lock the locker, Archer rushes out of the locker, knocking not Menos down, but T’Pol, his ally, and is successfully able to reach for grab both phase pistols, without Menos firing on him. I was then extremely disappointed that when Archer regained his phase pistols, he had a clear shot at Menos, and missed Menos with BOTH phaser beams.
I liked this episode until they conveniently found the bio-toxin. Call me nuts, but I liked the ambiguity and the image that Vulcans can be duplicitous b*tards (ask an Andorian) that just happen to have really good PR.
**T'Pol is not your average Vulcan.**
-someone calling themself Captain Obvious.
Um, excuse me???? Find your OWN damnn username, okay?
You're awfully touchy. Is this better?
Although maybe that's just a bit too close.
Maybe I should just quit while I'm ahead
Hey! Quit stealing my username!
Sparrow47: looking at the previes photos on startrek.com makes me wonder if [Travis getting more screen time is] a good thing.
Luigi Novi: Why?
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Spockania: What IS it with starfleet in this age? They can't contemplate a 3 day wait without becoming impatient even after being told it's top secret that they do so.
Luigi Novi: When does Starfleet become impatient in the episode? And where was it said that contemplating a 3-5 day wait was top secret? T’Pol’s mission was top secret, not waiting for them.
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SMT: When T'Pol got that initial call, she was reading in bed. Her caller asked "Did I wake you?" and T'Pol replied "It's all right." Why the evasive answer, when she could simply and truthfully have said "No"?
Luigi Novi: I don’t think it was evasive. Not a direct or precise answer to the exact question, but rather a dismissive answer, dismissive in that she was telling her to dismiss any concern about having woken her. I don’t think that’s antithetical to logic. What kind of dialogue would we have to listen to if T’Pol answered everything like a robot?
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Personally, I think T’Pol didn’t want her contact to know that she was reading the Vulcan equivalent of Danielle Steel.
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SMT: Archer may say he's watching water polo, but with such a small screen, situated well across the room and out of his line of sight while he's bouncing a ball of the wall, it's not what I call "watching".
Luigi Novi: But it is what I would call consistent with the way people do watch television. I almost never sit down right in front of the TV, and if I’m sitting on the floor cutting up photos to put in my photo collection, the TV is mostly out of sight. Perhaps he’ s not that interested in this particular match. From the comment he makes to T’Pol when she first enters his quarters, it’s possible he’s sulking a bit at after again being kept out of the loop by the Vulcans.
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SMT: (doesn't the person in the next cabin over complain?)
Luigi Novi: You think someone has a cabin adjacent to the captain’s? I’d have imagined the captain’s quarters to be somewhat isolated from others’, even though they’re on the same deck.
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SMT: As much on guard as T'Pol was in the inn when hunting down Menos, she got tossed aside quite easily by that alien. You'd think she would have been ready to hurl him across the room, Vulcan-judo-style.
Luigi Novi: I don’t think she figured he would throw her like that, and she was probably focused on Menos.
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SMT: So T'Pol has been to P'Jem before. I'm surprised that none of the Vulcans there recognized her.
Luigi Novi: Nothing indicated that they didn’t. The Vulcan Elder, who was the first to greet her, showed no emotion whatsoever, and we didn’t even hear their first exchange. The monks were more preoccupied with the Andorians holding them prisoner anyway.
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PaulG: When Archer is bouncing the water polo ball off the door in his quarters, the door seems to give a little each time the ball impacts and then bounces back.
Luigi Novi: It shudders a tiny, almost undetectable bit, but I don’t see why that’s a problem. Maybe it’s a locker or something, which isn’t made of the same material as the ship’s hull.
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PaulG: Archer turns off his video screen with a button above his bed. That seems to be an unusual place to put a power button – I would think it a bit awkward to press when lying in bed.
Luigi Novi: Geez, I hope the comm button isn’t on his headboard. If so, it could be pretty embarrassing if he’s having fun with a lady friend.
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PaulG: The Enterprise gang chase Menos into his ship and then they all barrel into the cargo bay. This would have been very convenient if Menos had been hiding on the bridge as then he could just lock them all in.
Luigi Novi: They could just blast their way out, or better yet, into the cockpit.
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PaulG: Archer and T’Pol have a long, important conversation in the cargo bay. The radioactive cargo bay. This is not where I would want to have a long conversation.
Luigi Novi: Nothing in the episode indicated that the cargo bay was radioactive.
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Zul: T'Pol seems kinda emotional for a Vulcan, don't you think?
Luigi Novi: It was clear to me that it’s a result of the flashbacks to her killing Jossen.
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Jason: The interior of Menos's ship seems a lot bigger on the inside than on the outside. I know that we didn't get a good view of the exterior…
Luigi Novi: Jason, we didn’t get any view of the exterior.
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Jason: …but was there really room for both the cargo bay and the hidden room without having something poke out of the side of the ship?
Luigi Novi: T’Pol’s tricorder indicated that Menos wasn’t in there when they first entered the ship in the opening shot of Act 4, so the exact dimensions of the ship weren’t an issue. It’s also possible they thought everything else was taken up by engines or cargo holds, or a reinforced hull. Archer even asked T’Pol if there was another way into/out of the ship.
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Mike Ram: All this time I thought ENT had a bigger budget than DS9 or VOY, but in this episode they fill up some AQUAFINA bottles with green liquid and call it a biological weapon!!!
Luigi Novi: Yeah. Crystal Pepsi would’ve been more believable as a biological weapon.
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ScottN: 47 alert. The final score of the Water Polo match was 7-4. (Don't remember if Stanford or Cal won).
Luigi Novi: Sorry, Scott. Cal beat Stanford 7 to 3, not 7 to 4.
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Steve Oostrom: I'm surprised that T'Pol didn't find the biotoxin. Given the state she was in, I was sure she would search everything, and not miss such a large and obvious container. Wouldn't a tricorder scan for the stuff?
Luigi Novi: They were searching for Menos, rather than his contraband, so it’s possible their tricorders to set to scan for him. As far as the state T’Pol was in, her not looking for it is perfectly consistent. In addition to the fact that they weren’t looking for them, T’Pol was a bit out of sorts in this episode.
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Steve Oostrom: Shortly after the three left in the shuttlepod, Travis (I think) mentioned that the Vulcan ship was approaching the system at "high warp."
Luigi Novi: Travis was on the mission with Archer and T’Pol. Hoshi relayed the info.
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Steve Oostrom: It sure took a long time to get there, as I thought when he said that, the Vulcan ship might have been early and might have been involved in the events that would follow.
Luigi Novi: The first mention of the ship I could find was after T’Pol asked Archer to come along on the mission, and in the next scene, Archer says "If that Vulcan ship comes snooping around…" , which leaves the reason for their presence somewhat vague. By all appearances, they were there only to pick up Menos.
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Starkist: As for T'Pol killing Jossen, it seemed as if her weapon was projectile based, not phase.
Luigi Novi: It seemed? Starkist, the weapon itself gave no hint as to the type of armament it used, and we didn’t even see the blast. All we heard was a nondescript burst of energy over a shot of birds flying off a tree in reaction to it.
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Trike: For a story that involved the Vulcans, it sure spent a lot of time flying in the face of logic. Sending T'Pol to capture Menos is a matter of honor? Huh? After it took the Vulcans so long just to find him, they don't send the nearest operative.
Luigi Novi: T’Pol’s contact in the teaser said Menos’ location was just three days from their present location. Isn’t that pretty darn close? Why so certain that there were other members of Vulcan Security that were closer?
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Trike: I love Travis. The strong, quiet type.
Luigi Novi: You could replace him with a corpse and get the same effect.
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Yasu: Now isn't that a shame that we'll all have to rub jelly on each other again
Luigi Novi: Holy cow, that’s SIX! (In Stewie Griffin voice: ) Today Nit-C, tomorrow the WORLD!!!
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Influx: I knew there were more involved when T'Pol mentioned six people being recovered. Since the title was "The Seventh" it kind of gave it away.
Luigi Novi: Funny. Up until the episode premiered, I figured "The Seventh" might’ve just been a tentative title they used because they couldn’t come up with a better one.
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Producer1: "Okay, there fifth episode of the season. The one where Porthos gets the lizard brain and Archer has wet dreams about the Vulcan chick?"
Producer2: "We’re gonna call it " A Night in Sickbay."
Producer1: "Good. And the sixth? The one where the Klingons mess with those wimp miners."
Producer2: "Marauders."
Producer1: "Well, that’s creative. What about the seventh?"
Producer2: "The Seventh."
Producer1: "Yeah, what are we gonna call it?"
Producer2 (adding emphasis): "The Seventh."
Producer1: "I know it’s the seventh episode of the season. What’s its name?"
Producer2: "THE-SEVENTH."
Producer1: "What is this, an Abbot & Costello routine? What’s the name??"
Producer2: That IS the name!
Producer1: WHAT IS???!!!
Producer2: "THE SEVENTH!"
Producer1: "Ah, screw it. What’s the name of the eighth episode?"
Producer2: "You’re a hack sellout that’s helped drive this franchise straight into the ground."
Producer1: "Ooh, I LIKE it! Kinda esoteric, and a bit too long, but hey, we got one ep called For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky, so why not?"
-
Influx: Why should a Vulcan ship be diverted just to give the captain a water polo score?
Luigi Novi: It wasn’t. Archer indicated to Trip when walking to the Launch Bay in Act 1 that the Vulcan ship was in the area and may come snooping around.
47 alert withdrawn.
Has anyone else found transmission of the last two episodes really bad?
Just a couple of comments: I agree with Blue Berry that finding the biotoxins in Menos's ship took away a lot of the ambiguity about his character and the Vulcans' motives. Menos didn't need to be either entirely innocent or a complete low-life scum. And it might have been more interesting if Menos had revealed that elements of the Vulcan science directorate had been involved in the smuggling with him.
BTW: As noted above, Menos was played by actor Bruce Davison, a very accomplished actor with an extensive filmography (Including one of my favorites, the 1979 PBS version of The Lathe of Heaven - Don't bother with the 2002 A&E version.)
Trip's stint as acting captain seemed somewhat underwhelming. He's third-in-command but doesn't have any experience making command decisions? His hemming and hawing with Dr. Phlox and Reed seemed particularly out of place. Phlox says he needs to innoculate the crew, but there may be some unpleasent side-effects. Trip doesn't want to be responsible for giving the crew "a case of the runs". Well, what do you want to be responsible for? Ask Phlox how serious this virus is, and how it would affect the crew. Chances are a case of the runs is the lesser evil, but Trip never pauses to ask that question. Likewise, there was no need to put off Reed. Reed needed to take the warp engines off-line to re-align the targeting scanners (I think that was it). Trip didn't have any reason to say no other than he didn't want anyone messing with his engines. That's not going to go over well with Archer when Reed has to explain why he didn't get the re-alignment done.
Lastly, the Vulcan captain comments that Trip (posing as Archer) looks too young to be commanding a starship. By whose standards? Trip doesn't look that much younger than Archer. Anyway, does the Vulcan captain really have the range of experience with human captains to make that judgment? The Vulcan's assumption here seems, well, illogical based upon what he ought to know.
Luigi Novi: Holy cow, that’s SIX! (In Stewie Griffin voice: ) Today Nit-C, tomorrow the WORLD!!!
Is that the first time you noticed, I've been plagiarizing for a while now.
Maquis Lawyer: Trip didn't have any reason to say no other than he didn't want anyone messing with his engines.
I agree with you that Trip's inability to make command decisions was odd. However, I think Trip should have said "The Captain and T'Pol are on a highly sensitive and dangerous mission. If they need us right away for some reason, I don't want to have to take up valuable time bringing the engines back on line". I guess this is an area for future character development similar to Counselor Troi (What's a warp core breach?). Believable for a ships counselor, a bit of a strech for the head of engineering and 3rd in command.
Spockania: What IS it with starfleet in this age? They can't contemplate a 3 day wait without becoming impatient even after being told it's top secret that they do so.
Luigi Novi: When does Starfleet become impatient in the episode? And where was it said that contemplating a 3-5 day wait was top secret? T’Pol’s mission was top secret, not waiting for them.
I could kind of understand Archer's sulking about having his ship diverted on some Vulcan errand, it is his ship after all . I found it a bit immature, however. In addition I found Trip's whining about not being told what the mission was, and responding that he could polish the handles in engineering, inappropriate for someone in a military style command structure. You're given a mission, you're told it's secret, you do it. You don't like it, take it up with the Captain in private, but don't question him in front of the rest of the crew (or at least that's how it's usually done in fiction, I have no idea what it's really like in the military).
My guess is that the writers want to show some difference between this crew and the polished, experienced crew of TNG. That’s valid. However, I think they should have taken the opposite track they have. Archer’s crew seems too wide-eyed and naïve. Most of us here wouldn’t take a dog on an away mission and it’s not like we’re experienced interplanetary diplomats. IMHO it might have been better for Archer to start off as a hard-ass, and for the crew to be less adventurous and then take more chances and loosen up as the series progressed.
Luigi,
I too got the impression that T'Pol's weapon was projectile based. It is not a definite conclusion, but it did (if I remember right) have a barrel, and it would remove the "stun" option.
It fits. It un-nits. You must acquit.
Luigi, I was thinking that, because the Vulcans had a lead on where Menos' whereabouts, that the information might have come from an operative in the vicinity. Also, remember that T'Pol is no longer with Vulcan security. She left that group several years ago.
(Uh-oh, I feel a rant coming on.)
"A matter of honor." That line makes less sense the more you think about it. How many times over the years, after T'Pol left for the science directorate, would the Vulcans have found leads on Menos? Did they have her check them out each time?
Previously, my biggest concern about Enterprise was continuity with other Star Trek series. Now, it's plot logic. The past two weeks, there have been terrible plot holes in stories. I remember reading in the book on the aborted Star Trek second series that Jon Povill became known, in the editing stage, for showing how stories fell apart based on their own logic. I don't know how it's being handled on Enterprise, but I think more attention needs to be spent on it. The series is developing a wonderful core of characters, good action and great special effects, but the stories are falling way short because they don't stand up to scrutiny.
(Rant ends.)
"...had a lead on where Menos' whereabouts..."
Looks like I need someone to check out my stuff in the editing stage. I should have struck the word "where." I guess my rant distracted me.
Blue Berry, I think you misspelled "acquit".
Ccabe,
Microsoft Word didn't catch it. My "real" dictionary has it as "acquit". I think I'm right, but if I'm not it is not my first error or my last.
Darth Sarcasm,
If I misspelled it should I insist people understand it anyway?
Washington Area Viewer: Has anyone else found transmission of the last two episodes really bad?
Luigi Novi: In what way? The lousy volume? I’ve been having problems with the volume, but I thought it was because I had a lousy mono-sound VCR, and this episode had the worst volume by far. I live in Jersey, though. Was that the problem you had, WAV?
Maquis Lawyer: Trip doesn't look that much younger than Archer.
Luigi Novi: Well, Connor Trinneer is 33, and Scott Bakula is 48.
Blue Berry: Luigi, I too got the impression that T'Pol's weapon was projectile based. It is not a definite conclusion, but it did (if I remember right) have a barrel, and it would remove the "stun" option.
Luigi Novi: Phase pistols have barrels, Berry. So do many NextGen-era weapons. Why would having a barrel remove a stun option?
Trike: Luigi, I was thinking that, because the Vulcans had a lead on where Menos' whereabouts, that the information might have come from an operative in the vicinity. Also, remember that T'Pol is no longer with Vulcan security. She left that group several years ago.
Luigi Novi: A good possibility, Trike. It’s also possible that some thug recognized him from a wanted notice, and gave his whereabouts for money. And while she’s no longer with the Ministry of Security, if she’s the only Vulcan in the area trained in reconnaissance retrieval, and acquainted with Menos’ capabilities, I can buy it being her (though she should’ve at least had Phlox surgically alter her).
Luigi,
Having a barrel wouldn't remove the stun option. Being projectile based would. (Unless Vulcans perfected rubber bullets.)
The barrel I remember was a black metal pipe like a revolver. (I even think it had a sight on it although that would be a nit since the rest of the gun would block that from view.) TOS phasers had that ringy thing on the end. I could be wrong, but I don't remember a hole in the end of phase pistols or TNG phasers.
First of all, Berry, you said, "it did (if I remember right) have a barrel, and it would remove the "stun" option." The meaning of that phrasing certainly sounds like having a barrell eliminates a stun option. Sorry if I misinterpreted it, but you could've been a tad more clearer.
Second, having a thicker "ring" on the end of the barrel doesn't mean that a gun doesn't have a barrel. Why you think it does, I don't know. When someone attaches a silencer to the end of a gun, does that mean the gun no longer has a barrel?
As for a hole in the end of the barrel, how in the world can you be under the impression that phase pistols don't have a hole in the end of the barrel? Of course they do. All guns do. Where do you think the energy discharge comes from? The gun wielder rubbing their feet on a carpet?
This pic shows that not only do phase pistols have barrels, but there is a hole at the end, though you can only partially see it.
So does this one.
And that one.
This one too.
And yes, as you said, using either rubber bullets, composite bullets, etc. are all non-lethal options that can be used in projectile weapons as well.
Luigi,
First of all, Berry, you said, "it did (if I remember right) have a barrel, and it would remove the "stun" option." The meaning of that phrasing certainly sounds like having a barrell (sic) eliminates a stun option. Sorry if I misinterpreted it, but you could've been a tad more clearer. - Luigi Novi
Only a "tad"? You are right. I was not clear. The antecedent for "it" is barrel when I meant "projectile based weapon". I should have misspelled it maybe I'd be right in insisting you understand it anyway. I cannot, as of yet, beam information directly into your head.
BTW, rubber bullets are not a perfect solution. They cause fewer fatalities, but cause some still. You can say that T'Pol being a righteous Vulcan, was using rubber bullets but forgot that at that range they just as deadly and the guilt that could be avoided by a stun setting is still there.
Luigi, have you learned nothing. I'm going off of memory. Not remembering a hole does not mean there is none. (Although thank you for having confidence in my memory.) Thank you for the pictures. (I even admit I could be wrong [Read that sentence, Luigi? What is 2+3?])
Think of phasers from TOS. (Better yet link to a picture.) I'm going off memory but it is essentially gun like, but out of the "barrel" is a whitish rod with two disks of the same material. It has been a long time since I watched it last. Other than being aware of "that's a gun" I had no reason to examine the prop in detail. I never had reason to ask if there was a hole in the barrel. Luigi, there may be a hole in the barrel. Don't hyperventilate if there is.
The energy discharge? It looked more like a pistol than a revolver. I assumed the energy would be where the bullets are kept - in the handle. Is there a reason why it must be horizontal? (Are they like old-fashioned squirt guns where you had to keep the air out of the pump?) There may be many, upon many sources that put it in the other part. If there are, breathe. Relax. You asked where i{I} thought it was.
One thing that is happening is we are both defining "barrel" differently. You are calling everything horizontal and above the trigger the barrel. I'm just calling the "pipe" the bullet (or whatever) would travel down the barrel.
Now to ask you a question. Why does an energy weapon need a hole? If the energy needs a way to escape the gun why not move the energy pulse generator thingy forward? You don't need rifled barrels to aim so why not us the space to fit more technobabble stuff?
Or instead they can always drag their feet across carpets and shock Klingons. (Your idea has merit. The Klingons won't expect that.)
Okay, was finally able to see this one. Yay. Thank you, same-week reruns!
Now, some of what I'm about to say is slightly repetetive, but if that hacks anyone off... well... sorry.
While I liked the core idea behind this episode, I was so very dissapointed at the plot holes. This episode was filled with enough plot holes that it could have doubled for the "Sea of Holes" set from "Yellow Submarine." What plot holes? Well...
The acid on the deck. First off, I missed where the acid supposedly came from. But anyway, said acid must not be that strong in the first place, as T'Pol was able to walk to Menos' ship and back without any adverse effects. So, why couldn't everyone have put something over their feet and walked back to the shuttlepod? And then, when everyone needs to be running away, the acid is gone, even though I'm quite sure it hadn't been four hours. I could be wrong on that. Anyway, they couldn't have used a storm as the excuse for not being able to leave? Seeing how much trouble the shuttlepods had in "Strange New World," that would've made sense.
Next up, the various fire fights. Ye Gods. I would like to point out that, on the plus side, the phase pistols were actually leaving scorch marks on the barrels that they hit in the cargo bay. However that doesn't excuse the poor shooting from everyone in this episode, and worse, that there were so many open shots. First off, Menos had a faaaaaantastic shot at Archer at the beginning of the fight at the bar. And after he shot, Archer's reaction time was abysmal. Then, in the cargo bay, Menos had various shots of all three officers when Archer pulled the "ramming T'Pol with the door" trick. He even had two such shots at Travis, as when Archer threw Travis the pistol, we saw that Travis was just standing outside the door, and only when he got the gun did he make any more to take cover. Of course, the only time when someone actually converts an open shot is at the end, and Menos had already walked a significant distance.
Oh, and about T'Pol lowering her weapon in the standoff, I wasn't really annoyed by it, as T'Pol's emotional state was such that she might've been willing to believe that Menos wasn't really going to hurt anyone, he was innocent, etc.
Additionally, Menos told T'Pol "you're not going to kill me," and I think everyone interpreted this as that T'Pol's weapon was needlessly set to kill. Alternative reading: since Menos throughout the episode was equating capture with death, he was really saying, "You know that if you capture me, they'll kill me, and I'm innocent, ergo you won't capture me." IMHO, anyway.
So, this little outpost didn't have a jail, or a place to house prisoners? Funny, because that bar really looked like a dive, replete with gambling. You're telling me no one ever gets in a fight there?
Nice touch with Trip seeming to have picked up water polo after "Vox Sola."
So there was a bit of a debate above about the cargo bay being radioactive or not. Menos clearly said that there was something dangerous about hauling the things that was probably going to kill him, and radioactivity seems sensible for this. However it also seemed like it was going to take a while for his death to occur, so I think everyone's okay by being in the cargo bay for just a little while.
Anyone else find the birds flying in T'Pol's flashbacks a little reminiscient of Bonnie and Clyde?
Oh, and about those birds, why are they a part of T'Pol's memory?
looking at the previews photos on startrek.com makes me wonder if [Travis getting more screen time is] a good thing.Sparrow47
Why?Luigi Novi
Well, because the photo they had of him showed him in this weird pose where he was supposedly on gaurd, but he had his phase pistol held close like he was scared, and he had this half-vacant half-terrified look on his face. In short, it was a bad picture. But on that note, this ep was much better than average for Travis- he got some good screentime, captured Menos the first time, and located the controls for the holo-wall. You go, Travis!
Blue Berry: BTW, rubber bullets are not a perfect solution. They cause fewer fatalities, but cause some still.
Luigi Novi: That does not mean that T’Pol’s weapon was a projectile-based weapon. And again, even if it was projectile-based, she could’ve been using composite bullets.
Blue Berry: Luigi, have you learned nothing?
Luigi Novi: Well, I just did complete this course in hair-splitting. And the photo of the author in the back of the textbook did look suspiciously like you……
Blue Berry: I'm going off of memory. Not remembering a hole does not mean there is none.
Luigi Novi: C’mon, Berry. The intended meaning of your saying what you did was clear: That you were saying there was no hole in the gun. Why else bring it up? I don’t remember the first few years of my life. But I’m pretty sure they were there. I don’t remember most of Final Fantasy. But I’m not going to question whether I was staring at a blank movie screen. There is no reason to bring up ANY of the things I don’t seem to recall from various episodes unless it bears on a relevant point of discussion.
Blue Berry: Although thank you for having confidence in my memory. Thank you for the pictures.
Luigi Novi: I was young. I needed the money.
Oh, you meant the pictures of the guns. Um…never mind.
Blue Berry: (I even admit I could be wrong [Read that sentence, Luigi? What is 2+3?])
Luigi Novi: The number of times since you first starting coming here that anyone’s understood you?
(Just kidding. )
Blue Berry: Think of phasers from TOS. (Better yet link to a picture.) I'm going off memory but it is essentially gun like, but out of the "barrel" is a whitish rod with two disks of the same material.
Luigi Novi: Your memory is again playing tricks on you. There are plenty of shots of phasers in various episodes that show no such thing, and that do show a hole. 3 of the 4 I linked you to are, after all, TNG phasers, two of which are rifles, and one of which is a hand-held.
Blue Berry: The energy discharge? It looked more like a pistol than a revolver.
Luigi Novi: 1. If by "it" you mean the one T’Pol had in the flashback, we’re not talking about that one, because its discharge wasn’t seen. We only heard it, and there's no way to tell from that sound that it was projectile-based. 2. A revolver is a pistol.
Blue Berry: I assumed the energy would be where the bullets are kept - in the handle. Is there a reason why it must be horizontal?
Luigi Novi: No, I’m sure the discharge would do a figure-eight before hitting Jossen, just as it did in all those episodes where it did so. Why else would the pistol be shaped horizontally?
Blue Berry: Now to ask you a question. Why does an energy weapon need a hole? If the energy needs a way to escape the gun why not move the energy pulse generator thingy forward?
Luigi Novi: The look of most props would seem to fall under the category of "Because it looks cool." It’s mostly external considerations.
If you want an internal answer, you could create an entire Tech Manual to explain why it could be shaped either way. But since there are holes, and since there aren’t thingees sticking out, you could easily come up with numerous technobabble reasons for why they are the way they are. Perhaps the directing the energy along a horizontal barrell some distance away from the wielder’s hands (even if it’s only a matter of inches) is safer. Perhaps the barrel material is somewhat insulating. Perhaps it assists in directing the energy beam. For all we know, perhaps the energy beam isn’t created solely by some component in the rear of the gun, but jointly by components in the barrel itself, much in the same way that what fills a toilet bowl not from one hole, but from dispensers along the entire rim.
Hell, you could even dispense with technical scenarios, and theorize that the designers kept the look for aesthetic reasons. The possibilities are endless.
Sparrow47: So there was a bit of a debate above about the cargo bay being radioactive or not. Menos clearly said that there was something dangerous about hauling the things that was probably going to kill him, and radioactivity seems sensible for this.
Luigi Novi: Sparrow, the episode made clear that it was the biotoxins he was carrying.
Sparrow47: Anyone else find the birds flying in T'Pol's flashbacks a little reminiscient of Bonnie and Clyde?
Luigi Novi: Never saw it. But the first thing I thought of was the opening shot of JFK.
Blue Berry: The energy discharge? It looked more like a pistol than a revolver.
Luigi Novi: 1. If by "it" you mean the one T’Pol had in the flashback, we’re not talking about that one, because its discharge wasn’t seen. We only heard it, and there's no way to tell from that sound that it was projectile-based. 2. A revolver is a pistol.
Yes, I believe we are talking about this gun. Everyone is wondering why T'Pol doesn't stun the guy. Like Luigi has said, we don't see the discharge. It could be energy based, it could be projectile-based. If it was projectile-based, it isn't a stun gun (it did, after all, kill the guy). If it is energy based, we don't even know if it has a stun setting.
Is there any indication that Vulcans had invented a stun setting by then? Evidence seems to support that humans may not have. It's possible that it is the same for Vulcans but you'd think that being the pacifists they are, they would have it a few years (30? 15? 5? 2.3? 3.14159?) before this episode. But we don't know.
Luigi,
Blue Berry: I'm going off of memory. Not remembering a hole does not mean there is none.
Luigi Novi: C’mon, Berry. The intended meaning of your saying what you did was clear: That you were saying there was no hole in the gun. Why else bring it up? I don’t remember the first few years of my life. But I’m pretty sure they were there. I don’t remember most of Final Fantasy. But I’m not going to question whether I was staring at a blank movie screen. There is no reason to bring up ANY of the things I don’t seem to recall from various episodes unless it bears on a relevant point of discussion. - Luigi Novi
Thank you for telling me what I meant. Silly me I thought I meant what I said.
I rewatched the episode yesterday. In the memory sequence there is a pop when she fires. Yes, Luigi, it could be an energy blast. I interpreted it as a projectile.
Have you read your own posts lately? Wait a minute. I should misspell that and insist you understand it. Have you read your own pots lately?
It goes like this:
I think Porthos is a cute beagle.-anyone
What show are you watching? Porthos is a Basset Hound.
I thought he was a beagle too. - Blue Berry
Do you think Beagles have a cheese alergy? maybe if the dog drags his feet on the carpet he can cause static electricty and be a Beagle!
Calm down, Luigi.
BTW, the part about rubber bullets still being deadly was in a different paragraph that thise religious discusion. (The discusion is holey.) I only thought important stuff got quoted out of context. Are you sure you are not a reporter, Luigi:?
LOL. So your answer is to tell me to calm down, because my pointing out flaws in your argument somehow demonstrates agitation on my part? Nice try.
You started off by saying your "impression" was that it was projectile-based, but the continued on arguing that it was, while still trying to say that you were only going on "memory." Such statements are not made in a vacuum, Berry. There is a point to each statement made in a discussion. What exactly was the point of your mentioning that you didn't "remember" there being a hole in the barrel? If it wasn't to argue that there wasn't one, then what was it?
I'm really sorry that my saying things like this somehow means to you that I'm all tense and agitated. I would think that I wouldn't be able to make cogent arguments if that were the case.
Sparrow, the episode made clear that it was the biotoxins he was carrying.Luigi Novi
Well, I've only seen it the one time, but I seem to recall that the only hazard from the biotoxins (well, aside from the fact that they're, you know, biotoxins) was from their being shot at. Since Archer told T'Pol she'd have to go through Decon after she went into the cargo bay, and then mentioned that they'd all have to do this (nevermind that you'd have to do this anyway, grrrr...), obviously the cargo bay was the source of some kind of problem, like radiation.
Never saw [Bonnie and Clyde]. But the first thing I thought of was the opening shot of JFK.Luigi Novi
Well, I haven't seen that, so I think we're at an impasse
Geez, is everyone going to get into a fight with Luigi this season? (or vice versa?)
And I don't think that any statements can be made in a vacuum since sound doesn't travel through one
Actually, Sparrow is absolutely right. Menos indicated that hauling spent injector casings is dangerous. Archer mentioned going through decon twice before he knew for certain that Menos was hauling bio-toxins. It was the casings (which T'Pol had released by opening the cargo containers) that were dangerous.
You say barrel, and I say emitter...
Luigi: thanks for the links to those pictures, but either my monitor is bad (a distinct possibility) or the pictures were too dark to conclusively determine whether or not there was a hole (i.e., a barrel) at the end of anyone's weapons. As it is, we really can't draw any conclusions about 22nd century weapons from 24th century weapons.
And, if memory serves correctly, the TNG Technical Manual indicates that there is no barrel, but some sort of crystal emitter at the end of phasers from which the energy is focused and discharged.
TOS seemed (by my own, limited vision) to have some sort of pointed emitter, though it was never clear if there was a hole from which phaser energy eminated.
I haven't seen a definitive picture of the phase pistols from Enterprise, but the one Luigi posted seems (mind you, only seems) to indicate that there is some sort of barrel from which the energy emerges.
Stun, shoot, what the heck...
T'Pol's difficulty in shooting Menos at the end wasn't, I think, a struggle over whether or not to shoot, but whether or not to capture. Remember, Menos had messed with T'Pol's head, making her doubt herself and, thereby, her mission. She had been on the brink of letting him go, there for a while. She needed a nudge to bring him down. I don't think for a second she forgot that her weapon had a stun setting.
While we're on that subject, remember that Star Trek VI established that a phaser set to stun, at very close range will kill.
I had a sneaking suspicion Vulcans looked a little too much like leprechauns!
The Vulcan writing we see in the book T'Pol is reading looks a great deal similar to ogham, and ancient Celtic writing I saw while in Ireland. Funny, that an emotionally repressed species in "Star Trek" should have writing derived from some of the most emotional, passionately raucous people you'd ever know!
Trike wondered why Admiral Forrest couldn’t have just contacted the Enterprise himself to relay the Cal Tech/Stanford score. Similarly, Trip cheered up Archer in Vox Sola by presenting him with a video of the finals, which was transmitted to the Enterprise. Wouldn’t Archer have preferred that Forrest send a video of a the Cal Tech/Stanford match, rather than just telling him the score outright? Trip accidentally revealed the winner of the match in Vox Sola, which irritated Archer.
Sparrow47: First off, I missed where the acid supposedly came from.
Luigi Novi: The Dockmaster said they had begun thermalizing the landing pad.
Sparrow47: I seem to recall that the only hazard from the biotoxins (well, aside from the fact that they're, you know, biotoxins) was from their being shot at.
Luigi Novi: Yeah. Because doing so would release them into the atmosphere. That was the hazard.
Menos claimed in Act 2 he fed his family by hauling spent warp injector casings. T’Pol responded that her information indicated that he smuggled biotoxins. After she went nuts and dashed out to his ship at the end of Act 2, she came back to the tavern in Act 3, and told Archer she only found spent injector casings. Archer responded that she would have to go through decon when they got back. When the three of them searched Menos’ ship in the beginning of Act 4, Archer said that they would all have to do so. It seemed obvious to me that he said this because he knows her intelligence info says Menos is into biotoxins, and he knows that there may still be some (or traces of them) on his ship.
No one mentioned radiation, and I'm not sure what decon could do if there was any. Is radiation a contaminant? If they were exposed to radiation, Phlox would have to treat them for radiation sickness and assess their cancer risk, not decontaminate them. But if a biotoxin is an organic agent like a microbe, virus or bacteria, that would be something for which you’d have to decontaminate anything that came into contact with it.
Sparrow: Well, I haven't seen that, so I think we're at an impasse
Nah. Don't bother watching it anyway. It's nothing more than three hours of propaganda and distortion of the truth.
Blue Berry: Tell me, Luigi, what part of "my impression" and "my memory" are you confusing with the word for fact?
Luigi Novi: Forgive me, William but it just seems to me that it is you who are confusing the two. If you’re going to offer something up as an impression, and someone points out the correct info, then the exchange would seem to go something like this:
I seem to be under the impression that it was this way.
Actually, I saw a photo from that episode, and it was that way.
Oh. I see. Thanks, dude.
OR
I seem to be under the impression that it was this way.
Actually, I saw a photo from that episode, and it you’re right. It is this way.
Oh. I see. Thanks, dude.
If it’s just an "impression," then a firm assertion by someone else that confirms it or proves wrong would seem to settle the matter. But when you continue to argue the point, then it seems you’re simply doing just that: arguing the point. There’s nothing wrong with that, mind you. If you’re going to continue to insist a different scenario, then do so. I’ll listen. If you’re going to provide an example from a TOS episode so as to prove the point (and do so several posts later), then go right ahead. But then stop saying that it’s "just an impression" when I decide to provide my view of the matter, and then accuse me of immaturity. If we’re gonna go back and forth with you insisting that the guns don’t have holes, then just admit we’re having a debate/disagreement.
Blue Berry: Do you just want to pick a fight?
Luigi Novi: Depends. If I say, "yes," are you going to answer with something original, or just repeat that "pistols at forty paces" schtick again?
If it’s the latter, I’ll say no.
Blue Berry: The only picture of a TOS phaser I could find was real small and had Sulu aiming one at Captain Tracy. It is not like I thought. It looks like a cross breed of a hair dryer and a toothpaste tube with a wide cap screwed on. There is no darn hole. Please explain how phaser design went from [not having a hole] to [having one] and back again.
Luigi Novi: The first time we saw a phaser in The Omega Glory was when Captain Tracey walked in on Kirk, McCoy, and Spock, who advised Kirk to confiscate Tracey’s phaser. Tracey was wielding his phaser as he walked in, and used it to kill Lt. Galloway. There’s a close-up of the phaser during this sequence that doesn’t occur when Sulu appears to guard Tracey at the end of the episode. I don’t know if this is what you’re talking about, (Niether this one nor Sulu’s bear any resemblance to either a hair dryer or a toothpaste tube), and it does have another cylinder sticking out of the barrel (the cap screwed on you’re talking about?), but I don’t know for certain if that thing itself has a hole at the end or not. It’s possible that this is the energy discharge thingee you were talking about. But I should point out that TOS movie and TNG-era phasers have holes in the end, are not categorized by a different name.
I should also note that while I thought previously that there was no clear shot of T’Pol’s weapon, I saw today that there is one, and it has two barrels, both with holes at each end.
Blue Berry: BTW, by not answering what 2+3 is again maybe you can prove again you don't read post you attack.
Luigi Novi: And by not noticing that I did answer it, you just proved you didn’t read mine.
Perhaps you’re not satisfied with the joking way that I answered it. Even if you didn’t care for the joke, making it does show that I read it. If you’re under the impression that I’m somehow obligated to answer it literally, I’d advise to you to take a Midol and lie down. I’m not obligated to jump through any flaming hoops when responding to a post, nor is anyone else here. When I see something that bears response, I make it. When I see self-serving rhetoric, an unfunny joke repeated ad nauseum, and admonitions to "calm down," or "grow up," as if there’s something inherently more tense or immature in my posts than yours, I treat it appropriately.
If that’s not a good enough answer, then to each his own, William.
Blue Berry: Do you want to know the point of my remembering the gun was projectile based? Scroll up. Someone else said that first and you dissed them.
Luigi Novi: Interesting how you admonish me to not responding to a part of your post that was merely a tired repetition of a ongoing whine about others not reading your posts, but when I ask you a more legitimate question, you don’t answer it, but refer me to another poster, and a vague statement by me that I didn’t make.
On a similar note, I asked you in my Sat. 11/9 post "As for a hole in the end of the barrel, how in the world can you be under the impression that phase pistols don't have a hole in the end of the barrel?", clearly showing that I read your statement that it was an "impression." Your Sulu/Tracey anecdote does answer this for me, but I find it curious that you related it not in the next post you made after my Sat. 11/9 post, but in the THIRD one you made after it.
So much for that tired admonition about us not answering your questions.
Darth Sarcasm: Menos indicated that hauling spent injector casings is dangerous.
Luigi Novi: He said that hauling spent warp injector casings is not the most popular job, but a necessary one, that a doctor on Andoria said his hemolytic cell count is at 3,000, and that you don’t find too many old men hauling spent warp injector casings. What I took this to mean is that he’s like a janitor or garbage man, and that he’s too old to do this sort of thing. On the other hand, this "hemolytic cell count" would seem to lend itself to suggest some sort of work hazard, but is this "hemolytic cell count" just technobabble, or an actual aspect of a blood diagnosis? If it’s the latter, does radiation affect it? If it’s the former, why would hauling spent injector casings affect the blood?
Darth Sarcasm: Archer mentioned going through decon twice before he knew for certain that Menos was hauling bio-toxins.
Luigi Novi: I understood that he said this because he knew from T’Pol that he was a biotoxin smuggler. Maybe it’s just me.
Taoiseach: You say barrel, and I say emitter...
Luigi Novi: Geez, what is that, SEVEN? And on the board for the episode called "The Seventh"? Okay, this is getting out of weird…
(Or are you Kazeite or Yasu?)
Taoiseach: Luigi: thanks for the links to those pictures, but either my monitor is bad (a distinct possibility) or the pictures were too dark to conclusively determine whether or not there was a hole (i.e., a barrel) at the end of anyone's weapons.
Luigi Novi: You’re welcome. Well, maybe it’s because I have very good eyesight, but I can see holes at the end quite clearly.
Taoiseach: As it is, we really can't draw any conclusions about 22nd century weapons from 24th century weapons.
Luigi Novi: Blue Berry said, "I could be wrong, but I don't remember a hole in the end of phase pistols or TNG phasers." That’s what I was responding to.
Taoiseach: And, if memory serves correctly, the TNG Technical Manual indicates that there is no barrel, but some sort of crystal emitter at the end of phasers from which the energy is focused and discharged.
Luigi Novi: Putting aside the question of whether The Tech Manual is conjecture, and not canon until something in it is mentioned in an episode or movie, the presence of an emitter doesn’t require the absence of a barrel. There is a barrel (though it’s not the perfectly cylindrical type), and there is an emitter, and in the diagram on page 135, that emitter is inside a hollowed-out portion of the end of the barrel. In that case we can simply see what’s at the rear end of the hole because the "hole" is so shallow, whereas on others we can’t because the end is too far back to see.
Taoiseach: While we're on that subject, remember that Star Trek VI established that a phaser set to stun, at very close range will kill.
Luigi Novi: The impression I got from ST VI was that Valeris went up to Burke and Samno and shot them at point blank range, which is why there was a huge bruise on the forehead of the one we saw in close-up. T’Pol was standing over Jossen. Just a theory, though.
Wouldn’t Archer have preferred that Forrest send a video of a the Cal Tech/Stanford match
It's not Cal Tech, it's the University of California at Berkeley, known as "California" or "Cal". The rivalry between Stanford and Cal is well known. It matches or exceeds those between:
Luigi:
Why does T’Pol tell Archer that the Fullara is "obsolete"?
Maybe the Vulcans invented a new improved ritual which worked better.
Sparrow:
Maybe the jail cells were all full. But they could have locked him in a bathroom.
Here's a 47:
Four main people in the main storyline.
Seven fugitives.
How's that? 
And another nit.
Menos has many crates just full of warp core casings. But they're awfully small for warp core casings. Have we seen the Enterprise's warp
core(s) yet?
Well, the technology is different, and perhaps less reliable. But Archer's Enterprise hasn't had threats of warp core breaches, and Kirk's Enterprise never had any that we saw.
Well, I *assume* a warp core would be inside the casing, but Trek technology isn't always logical.
With all these aliens within 100 lightyears from Earth, why hasn't Earth been visited far more often, and why haven't they tried invading and colonizing far more often?
It would be an interesting challenge if they only had a very few alien races, we keep seeing the same ones appear, and each time we learn something new about them.
They're not warp core casings... they're warp injector casings (which are probably used to pump the plasma or whatever into the core).
First off, I missed where the acid supposedly came from.Moi
The Dockmaster said they had begun thermalizing the landing pad.Luigi Novi
Okay, so in other words, they were heating it up? With acid? Aaaaaaaaaugh! The Maguffin gets worse? Seriously, does this seem like a good idea to anyone?
I understood that he said this because he knew from T’Pol that he was a biotoxin smuggler. Maybe it’s just me.Luigi Novi
Actually, I think it is just you. Oh, wait, is that ad hominem? Whoops. *performs Jedi Mind Trick* There was no ad hominem attack...
But seriously folks, Luigi, I think what this boils down to is that you're not quite interpreting the facts correctly. Menos' dialouge about there being no old men hauling the casings was, I think, clearly intended to mean that the things are supposed to be dangerous somehow. Menos constantly refers to these casings as ending his life prematurely. Didn't he say "I know I'm going to die, I'd just rather not die in jail," or something very similar?
And I don't think the logic of his carrying biotoxins as the reason for the supposed decontamination quite works- if the biotoxins had gotten out, wouldn't they have killed everyone?
Is radiation a contaminant? If they were exposed to radiation, Phlox would have to treat them for radiation sickness and assess their cancer risk, not decontaminate them. But if a biotoxin is an organic agent like a microbe, virus or bacteria, that would be something for which you’d have to decontaminate anything that came into contact with it.Luigi Novi
I think the culprit here would be our old nemesis, sloppy writing. Is it at all possible that the officers could have carried some residual radiation with them?
"Do you know how I've survived the last twenty years? How I've fed my family? I haul spent warp ejector casings! Not a very popular occupation, but a necessary one. The Doctor on Andoria says that my hemolitic cell count is over 3000. You don't find too many old men hauling spent ejector casings."
It seems fairly clear to me that hauling these spent ejector casings is killing him, probably from radiation.
roger: Maybe the jail cells were all full. But they could have locked him in a bathroom.
Luigi Novi: The Dockmaster didn’t indicate that they were full, he indicated that they didn’t have a brig or jail at all.
roger: Have we seen the Enterprise's warp core(s) yet?
Luigi Novi: Whaddaya think that huge bronze-colored thing in Engineering is?
roger: With all these aliens within 100 lightyears from Earth, why hasn't Earth been visited far more often, and why haven't they tried invading and colonizing far more often?
Luigi Novi: There’s plenty of possibilities. The Vulcans seem to have the fastest and most powerful ships, and if it’s close to Earth, perhaps alien races might not want to step on their turf. It may also be powerful that the Vulcan’s disdain for exploration is common, and the human drive to explore is the exception.
Sparrow47: Actually, I think it is just you. Oh, wait, is that ad hominem? Whoops. *performs Jedi Mind Trick* There was no ad hominem attack...
Luigi Novi: There was no ad hominem attack.
Sparrow47: Menos' dialouge about there being no old men hauling the casings was, I think, clearly intended to mean that the things are supposed to be dangerous somehow.
Luigi Novi: Probably. But radiation is just a theory. Why would injector casings be radioactive, or dangerous in any way? They pump plasma, not radioactive stuff. I do agree, though, that this part of the writing was sloppy and unclear.
Sparrow47: And I don't think the logic of his carrying biotoxins as the reason for the supposed decontamination quite works- if the biotoxins had gotten out, wouldn't they have killed everyone?
Luigi Novi: It was smart of Archer to order decon because he didn’t want to assume that Menos was entirely careful with his cargo, which I think is a good idea.
Merat: It seems fairly clear to me that hauling these spent ejector casings is killing him, probably from radiation.
Luigi Novi: Why is that probable? What’s a hemolytic cell count? And what’s its relationship to radiation? (Just asking.)
Sparrow47: Okay, so in other words, they were heating it up? With acid? Seriously, does this seem like a good idea to anyone?
Timothy Leary: I DO!!
Luigi Novi: Whaddaya think that huge bronze-colored thing in Engineering is?
Doc Savage: Well, I don’t want to brag, but I was down there this morning…
From www.dictionary.com:
Hemolysis: The destruction or dissolution of red blood cells.
Radiation can cause the destruction of red blood cells.
But don't Vulcans have GREEN blood cells???
I noticed the Doctor on Andoria line but didn't write it down, but don't Andorians HATE Vulcans?
When the Andorian doctor examines Menos & finds this guy has Vulcan blood, & organs where Vulcans have organs, & other features that are presumably more common to Vulcans than to whatever species Menos was pretending to be, wouldn't that lead the Andorian doctor to the conclusion that just maybe Menos is a disguised Vulcan and probably a spy?
I'm sure the Andorian security group would have loved to get their hands on a disguised Vulcan on Andoria.
So, they were using acid to heat up the landing pad? I guess this would be a way to clear off accumulations of snow and ice. I'll have to try it on my driveway this winter.
True. In fact, isn't the word Hemoglobin derived from iron? And since Vulcans have copper-based blood, they shouldn't have any "hemo" whatever.
However, if the derivation of "hemo" is from the greek for "blood", that's different. Any etymologists out there?
No one mentioned radiation, and I'm not sure what decon could do if there was any. Is radiation a contaminant? If they were exposed to radiation, Phlox would have to treat them for radiation sickness and assess their cancer risk, not decontaminate them. - Luigi
I think the culprit here would be our old nemesis, sloppy writing. Is it at all possible that the officers could have carried some residual radiation with them? - Sparrow47
No, radiation would not be a contaminant. However, it's possible the spent casings carry a contaminant (plasma residue, for instance) that can be treated through a decontamination process.
Or anything that's been exposed to ionizing radiation. "Fallout" is the best-known example.
Merat: From www.dictionary.com:
Hemolysis: The destruction or dissolution of red blood cells.
KAM: But don't Vulcans have GREEN blood cells???
Luigi Novi: Yeah, but obviously, dictionary.com isn’t going to make references to fictional characters, Keith. And Menos didn’t say "red blood cells," he only said his "hemolytic cell count" was at 3,000.
KAM: I noticed the Doctor on Andoria line but didn't write it down, but don't Andorians HATE Vulcans?
Luigi Novi: The Andorian government and military is certainly suspicious of them; that doesn’t mean civilians necessarily are. It’s possible that the doctor was simply one of Menos’ contacts.
ScottN: True. In fact, isn't the word Hemoglobin derived from iron? And since Vulcans have copper-based blood, they shouldn't have any "hemo" whatever.
Luigi Novi: I believe it was stated that Vulcan blood had a much higher copper content, but was it ever said to be copper-based?
ScottN: However, if the derivation of "hemo" is from the greek for "blood", that's different. Any etymologists out there?
Luigi Novi: "Hemo" is indeed a prefix meaning blood, as in "hemotologist," "hemodialysis," "hemophilia," etc.
I believe the MRM (don't know if it's canon or not) stated that Vulcans have copper-based hemoglobin.
The reason I asked about the greek derivation of "hemos" is because of the metal "hematite".
Luigi,
Sorry I missed your answer to 2+3. I was looking for "5".
Do you read your own posts? I agree if someone is offering an impression it should go as you said. I'll even quote you:
I seem to be under the impression that it was this way.
Actually, I saw a photo from that episode, and it was that way.
Oh. I see. Thanks, dude.
Funny, I didn't see any reference to static electricity in the blue part.
Let me copy your posts on it.
By LUIGI NOVI on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 07:40 pm:
Starkist: As for T'Pol killing Jossen, it seemed as if her weapon was projectile based, not phase.
Luigi Novi: It seemed? Starkist, the weapon itself gave no hint as to the type of armament it used, and we didn’t even see the blast. All we heard was a nondescript burst of energy over a shot of birds flying off a tree in reaction to it.
Yes, Luigi, seemed. He used that verb for a reason. Do you think seemed might imply his impressions? Again, perhaps he should use your impressions instead?
Maybe I should misspell it and insist you understand it.
Second Luigi Novi post on this subject:
By LUIGI NOVI on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 11:37 am:
...As for a hole in the end of the barrel, how in the world can you be under the impression that phase pistols don't have a hole in the end of the barrel? Of course they do. All guns do. Where do you think the energy discharge comes from? The gun wielder rubbing their feet on a carpet?
Again, my impression is my impression. As for how in the world I can be so blind I don’t know. Perhaps it has something to do with your admission that the first rule of props is that they look cool. The second rule is identifying it. Once I realized it was a gun and not a salt shaker I stopped studying it.
Oh, as for my reply, I didn’t know I was fighting you in evasive mode. Instead of “pistol” being the other type of handgun I meant “automatic”. Anyone else I don’t insist they understand it anyway, but you Luigi have insisted I understand what you meant when you type the wrong word. Why didn’t you understand this? By the way why doesn’t an engineer use the handle for energy storage? Why don’t you answer the question asked sometime? Are you practicing for a career in politics? (In fairness I never answered if I thought the energy came from the gun holder rubbing his feet against the carpet. If you are waiting for my reply, "Yes, my impression was that it does.")
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but T'Pol's message in the teaser is rather lacking in details. She's told that they've found Menos within a 3 day journey, and then the signal cuts off. Yet, she later has a full briefing on Menos, knows that a Vulcan ship will pick him up, etc.
During the first conversation in Archer's quarters, T'Pol says the Vulcan ship will rendezvous with the shuttle. Archer suggests that she's picking someone up and transfering them to the Vulcan ship. How does he make this determiniation? Why couldn't it have been an intelligence gathering mission, or retrieval of an item? In the second conversation, Archer determines that the person is a man, without any indication from T'Pol, that I can recall, to suggest that it was. Is he psychic?
T'Pol initially requests a shuttle and pilot, along with supplies. Is T'Pol not a pilot? (Honestly, does anyone know?) Was Travis to assist her in the capture as well, or simply act as pilot? Either way, he'll know that they captured an individual and ferried him to the Vulcans. Does he have the clearance for such a mission, given that even Admiral Forrest was unaware of the nature of the mission?
In the bar, the shove of Menos looks wrong. The alien that shoves him is past him, so Menos isn't in his way. Yet, he reaches behind him with his left arm and shoves Menos anyway. Why?
I normally don't nit sound effects too much, but whose idea was it to use normal handcuff sounds when securing Menos in the restraints? There is absolutely no sign of any moving parts, let alone the rather simple locking mechanism of our current handcuffs.
Trip is at the meeting when Reed suggests realigning the torpedo launchers. Yet, he has to be told later that doing so would require diverting computer access, which will require shutting down the warp core. As chief engineer, wouldn't you think he would know what would be required to realign the torp launchers?
Good thing the Vulcan captain isn't too up to date on Starfleet uniform design. When Trip talks to him, he is wearing one of his own uniforms, including the red stripe representing Engineering and Support, as opposed to Archer's gold stripe representing Command.
T'Pol says she was personally assigned to pick up 6 of the 19 fugitives, later revised to 7. This would suggest that only 3 individuals were assigned to retrieve these fugitives(6+6+7=19). Given the issues involved, why were so few assigned to pick up so many? At the very least, wouldn't you want to use teams instead of individuals, to make it more 1 to 1?
For a spaceport, this place sure is flammable. After Menos escapes the fire, an establishing shot shows about half of the station burning. Whose brilliant idea was it build flammable structures next to a landing pad?
>The first mention of the ship I could find was after T’Pol asked Archer to come along on the mission, and in the next scene, Archer says "If that Vulcan ship comes snooping around…" , which leaves the reason for their presence somewhat vague. By all appearances, they were there only to pick up Menos.
-Luigi Novi
If you review the first scene in Archer's quarters, I'm pretty sure that T'Pol mentions that a Vulcan ship will rendezvous with the shuttle.
>And yes, as you said, using either rubber bullets, composite bullets, etc. are all non-lethal options that can be used in projectile weapons as well.
-Luigi Novi
Or, you know, aiming at a non-vital area. Since she seemed to be standing over Jossen in the flashback, she could have simple shot his knee (if projectile based), crippling him but not killing him. That would allow her to pursue Menos, and later return to pick up Jossen. The only concern (at least in a human) would be blood loss.
>He even had two such shots at Travis, as when Archer threw Travis the pistol, we saw that Travis was just standing outside the door, and only when he got the gun did he make any more to take cover.
-Sparrow47
My memory of the scene was that Travis was still in the locker, out of sight of Menos, before Archer threw him the pistol. Since I taped over it last night, can anyone confirm that?
>Wouldn’t Archer have preferred that Forrest send a video of a the Cal Tech/Stanford match, rather than just telling him the score outright?
-Luigi Novi
Depends on the importance of the game. Some people prefer to see important games in their entirety, while they only care about the scores for unimportant ones.
As for a hole in the end of the barrel, how in the world can you be under the impression that phase pistols don't have a hole in the end of the barrel? Of course they do. All guns do. Where do you think the energy discharge comes from? The gun wielder rubbing their feet on a carpet? - Luigi
Similarly, how in the world can you be under the impression that you need a hole in order to project an energy discharge? I realize that an electric socket has holes, but those holes have nothing to do with discharging energy, they're there to protect people from inadvertently shocking themselves by the constant electric current.
Where does the energy discharge come from? It comes from inside the gun, it doesn't come from any holes. It may be directed through a hole, but it doesn't originate there.
Stun guns, for instance, do not typically have holes at the end of a barrel; they have metal prongs through which the energy is directed.
With that said, it does seem to me that phase-pistols have holes through which the energy is directed. But that's hardly conclusive. A phase-pistol may just as easily have a metal prong, the end of which is housed by a protective ring... which looks like a hole to our 21st century minds.
LN>Wouldn’t Archer have preferred that Forrest send a video of a the Cal Tech/Stanford match, rather than just telling him the score outright?
DW>Depends on the importance of the game. Some people prefer to see important games in their entirety, while they only care about the scores for unimportant ones.
To anyone who went to Cal (NOT CAL TECH!) or Stanford, ANY Cal/Stanford game is important.
As I said, it's as big as:
NNAN: T'Pol says she tracked Jossen and Menos to Risa, and went after them in the planet's Tropical Zone. But IRRC, in Two Days and Two Nights she described Risa's entire climate as being tropical. So what might distinguish the "Tropical Zone" from the other regions of the planet?
ScottN, on one of the Classic Trek boards (don't remember which) I made the mistake of assuming Hemo meant iron & it was pointed out that it means blood.
I probably should have put a smiley after my green blood cell comment.
Risa's entire climate as being tropical. So what might distinguish the "Tropical Zone" from the other regions of the planet?
Its climate is tropical because it has a low axial tilt, such as five degrees. Earth's is 23 and a half degrees, approximately.
The tropical zone would be defined as five degrees north of the equator, to five degrees south of the equator. That's if Risa's axial tilt is five degrees. That zone would be noticeably warmer and wetter than the rest of the planet.
That's the region where T'Pol was referring to. Again, she avoids giving place names. The writers could have had her point to a map of Risa and give a place name near the equator.
It would be interesting to see the polar zones of a tropical planet like Risa. They'd have a climate like...maybe Seattle, and yet have oddities like the midnight sun, and nights several months long.
I know Seattle isn't tropical, but when a planet has no ice caps it's easy to want to describe the poles as "tropical", compared to the poles of other planets.
Actually, if Vulcan is so warm, its poles might be warm--but they might be deserts instead. Risa's polar regions might be savannahs.
I had heard that TPTB slashed more time from the episodes, and that Minefield, for example, was something like 41:23 in length. But I noticed that this episode is even shorter, and comes in at 40:27!
Another reason for asking T’Pol and the Enterprise to go after Menos: Menos won’t likely recognize the Enterprise or its shuttlepods.
Dustin Westfall: I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but T'Pol's message in the teaser is rather lacking in details. She's told that they've found Menos within a 3 day journey, and then the signal cuts off. Yet, she later has a full briefing on Menos, knows that a Vulcan ship will pick him up, etc.
Luigi Novi: There is loads of information coming in on T’Pol’s monitor, even before the image of her contact appears. This could be all the pertinent info. True, we would say something like, "The intell you need is being trasmitted" before cutting the transmission, but for a Vulcan, and intelligence expert no less, I wouldn’t be surprised if they dispensed with this.
Dustin Westfall: In the second conversation, Archer determines that the person is a man, without any indication from T'Pol, that I can recall, to suggest that it was. Is he psychic?
Luigi Novi: T’Pol says, "The man I’m being sent to apprehend is extremely dangerous," before Archer makes a reference to the gender of the her quarry.
Dustin Westfall: T'Pol initially requests a shuttle and pilot, along with supplies. Is T'Pol not a pilot? Does he have the clearance for such a mission, given that even Admiral Forrest was unaware of the nature of the mission?
Luigi Novi: She might’ve wanted someone to focus on flying the pod while she guarded Menos, but yeah, I noted the same thing about Travis telling everyone what appeared to be classified.
Dustin Westfall: In the bar, the shove of Menos looks wrong. The alien that shoves him is past him, so Menos isn't in his way. Yet, he reaches behind him with his left arm and shoves Menos anyway. Why?
Luigi Novi: When the alien first puts his hands on Menos, he is behind Menos, and uses this leverage to pull himself around Menos until he is in front of him, and ends up shoving him backwards while doing so.
Dustin Westfall: I normally don't nit sound effects too much, but whose idea was it to use normal handcuff sounds when securing Menos in the restraints? There is absolutely no sign of any moving parts, let alone the rather simple locking mechanism of our current handcuffs.
Luigi Novi: I would expect something like the clicking of metal to have a generic sound effect. As for moving parts, the interiors of the cuffs may constrict to fit the wrists of the detained person.
Dustin Westfall: Trip is at the meeting when Reed suggests realigning the torpedo launchers. Yet, he has to be told later that doing so would require diverting computer access, which will require shutting down the warp core. As chief engineer, wouldn’t you think he would know what would be required to realign the torp launchers?
Luigi Novi: It is Reed who says he needs to divert computer access from Engineering, and Trip who responds that doing so would require shutting down the warp core. He knew the latter, and Reed probably just mentioned the former out of habit. Does NO ONE out there know anyone who constantly tells them things they already know?
Dustin Westfall: If you review the first scene in Archer's quarters, I'm pretty sure that T'Pol mentions that a Vulcan ship will rendezvous with the shuttle.
Luigi Novi: Yep. You’re right. Thanks.
Sparrow47: He even had two such shots at Travis, as when Archer threw Travis the pistol, we saw that Travis was just standing outside the door, and only when he got the gun did he make any more to take cover.
Dustin Westfall: My memory of the scene was that Travis was still in the locker, out of sight of Menos, before Archer threw him the pistol. Since I taped over it last night, can anyone confirm that?
Luigi Novi: This is the sequence: As T’Pol begins to lock the locker, Archer rushes out of it, knocking her down, grabbing the two phase pistols and exchanging shots with Menos. Both duck behind their respective cargo containers, and T’Pol joins Archer behind his. We don’t see Travis anywhere during this, and even if he was in sight, he isn’t the one who’s armed. Archer is, with both pistols, and Menos is too busy trading shots with him to fire on Travis.
Then, After Menos ducks behind the containers and T’Pol joins Archer, Archer throws one of his pistols to Travis, who is indeed just inside the locker.
Darth, good points, as always. I would point out, though, that stun guns have to make contact with the target. Otherwise, were I a weapon designer, I would place a barrel around the discharger to insulate against accidental contact, and perhaps even to help direct the discharge.
Luigi Novi: Wouldn’t Archer have preferred that Forrest send a video of a the Cal Tech/Stanford match, rather than just telling him the score outright?
Dustin Westfall: Depends on the importance of the game.
ScottN: To anyone who went to Cal (NOT CAL TECH!) or Stanford, ANY Cal/Stanford game is important.
Luigi Novi: Two questions, Scott: First, a personal one out of curiosity: I take you went to Cal, right? If so, I would like to mention that in my Nitpick Document when including this point by you.
Second, do we know that Archer did? Are non-Cal alumni fans of that school’s water polo team common? Can I assume it’s common with fans of college sports in general?
I know Seattle isn't tropical
Seattle is in Earth's Northern Temperate Zone.
Well, it's gonna seem tropical after a few weeks in Greenland. O:
ScottN: Any etymologists out there?
:: It was implied on "Rogue Planet" that there are entomologists out there on Enterprise.
Glad I could help. Sorry I took so long.
Luigi Novi: I believe it was stated that Vulcan blood had a much higher copper content, but was it ever said to be copper-based?
:: Did Spock say something to that effect in reply to a McCoy "green-blooded freak" jibe? (Don't remember what episode).
Cute, TJ, Really cute.
I said "etymologists", as in people who study word origins, in reference to "hemos".
Well, yeah, Bones made lots of comments like that. The one that springs to mind (because I just finished watching the end of it now) was his "Why, that green-blooded sonavabitch!" line to Kirk in ST III after Kirk tells him he's suffering from a mind meld with Spock. I never thought of the "green blood" references as an indication that it was coppper based, TJ, but now that you mention it, it does make sense.
Luigi
If memory serves me, there are several TOS references to the fact that Spock's blood is copper based.
IIRC "Obsession" contains the critical knowledge. The cloud didn't kill Spock because his blood wasn't based on iron but on copper. Can anyone with a DVD/tape verify this?
Kansas/Missouri?
Paul G: Menos shows a hologram of his family. I wonder. I would assume his wife is not Vulcan because otherwise I would suspect the Vulcan High Command would be after her too. Now, if she isn’t Vulcan, are these his children? Does his wife know he is a Vulcan? You would suspect so since his children would have Vulcan features. Of course, this may not be his family or maybe his children are adopted or whatever. I’m just curious.
Why would they be after her?
Mike Ram: Wow. All this time I thought ENT had a bigger budget than DS9 or VOY, but in this episode they fill up some AQUAFINA bottles with green liquid and call it a biological weapon!!!
Hey, you've got to save money where you can.
KAM: The Vulcan who contacts T'Pol says that Menos is "Less than 3 days from your present location." Ummm, at what speed? Warp 5? Impulse? Putting on a spacesuit and walking?
I assume she means the Enterprise's max speed.
Luigi Novi: The refusal to provide names for anything other than planets continues. Menos tells T’Pol in Act 3 that she killed Jossen on Risa in "the Tropical Zone."
Maybe that is the name. And I wouldn't exactly call it a refusal to provide names. Just a lack of caring.
Luigi Novi: Also, the only thing in that space is a ribbed tube, connecting to a module with two blinking red lights. Even though Travis says that their scanners show everthing powered down, Archer looks at it and says, "There’s a hell of a lot of energy flowing through those circuits." How can he tell this just by looking at it? Two blinking red lights indicate "a hell of a lot of energy?"
Perhaps something else tipped him off. (Vibration or something)
Luigi Novi: The sequence of events when the away team get into a firefight with Menos is almost comical. First, after ordering Archer and Travis into a locker at gunpoint, and T’Pol to lock the locker, Archer rushes out of the locker, knocking not Menos down, but T’Pol, his ally, and is successfully able to reach for grab both phase pistols, without Menos firing on him. I was then extremely disappointed that when Archer regained his phase pistols, he had a clear shot at Menos, and missed Menos with BOTH phaser beams.
That's why Menos made T'Pol close the door, in case his prisoners did something irrational like try to escape. Of course, that doesn't explain why he didn't fire...
Trike: I love Travis. The strong, quiet type.
Luigi Novi: You could replace him with a corpse and get the same effect He'd be quiet anway.
Sparrow 47: Oh, and about those birds, why are they a part of T'Pol's memory?
Why not? It's her memory.
The green liquid looked like Gatorade®.
Oh, and about those birds, why are they a part of T'Pol's memory?His Sparrowness
Why not? It's her memory.Josh M
Sure, it's her memory, and in her memory, she's not going to see a bunch of birds flying out of the trees at the point when she shoots Jossen, she's going to see her shooting Jossen.
Shes also not likely to see herself running through the trees, but that has rarely stopped television shows before.
Richie, this is up to 182k. Sorry about waitng so long. Didn't get to watch the show until tonight.
How do you know that Sparrow? It's her head. She remembers what she remembers.
Besides, as Merat seemed to point out, we're probably not seeing what she would be seeing.
Sparrow 47 - Oh, and about those birds, why are they a part of T'Pol's memory?
Maybe the creators are trying to say she's a bird brain? ;-) ;-)