• Show Board 2 June 30 - 6:57 pm

Kahs-wan. Reference to the Star Trek (animated series) episode "Yesteryear".

Ok, its official, Chef is Vera. We've seen his legs and hands now, but still haven't heard his voice! He wears a white suit? Is he a member of starfleet?

I think it was Trip who said the planet would have only four instances of night per month, because of the binary suns it circled. Without going into heavy astrophysical detail, suffice it to say that suns that close together would just mean somewhat shorter nights, not a usual absence of them.

Back on Classic Star Trek, it was at first considered impossible for a natural phenomenon to move at warp speeds. (It was said so on the one or two occasions when this belief was proved wrong.) Now, though, we have a plain instance of such a phenomenon appearing a century before this impossibility is alleged.

On a related point, should a phenomenon traveling at high warp speeds be visible moving slowly toward Archer's viewport? Shouldn't it outrun the light traveling to the port, thus not being visible until it's right on top of them?

Just wondering in passing: could holding position in the lee of the planet not shield them from the radiation?

Mayweather says he'll be able to evade a cluster of plasma eddies 80,000 kilometers ahead. But since the wavefront is moving at high warp, and Enterprise is not, something 80,000 kilometers away should be on top of them in an instant.

The fugitives say they were low-rank soldiers in an army, then a moment later say, "We tried to resign our commissions." Commissions are for officers.

Wouldn't all of that loose food in the galley be picking up loads of radiation? I hope Chef wasn't planning on serving any of it once the storm passed – not that it would be too palatable after sitting in the open for eight days in any case.

The alien commander says, "I've been reading about you, Captain." So he reads English?

Did the actor playing Chef receive credit? If he did, then we could just find his bio on the net to see what he looks like.

That's what always got me about Charlie from that Angels show/movie. Everyone always wondered what Charlie looked like, but people knew who the actor was. Hello! If you know the actor, then that's probably what the character looks like.

Like a bright and shining beacon, coming to rescue Season Two from the pits of despair, a decent episode!

Yeah, I think "decent" is a good word here. Not really spectacular.... but... decent.

Nits? Well, off the top of my head...

So, every indication suggests that the crew holes up inside only one nacelle. Why? Wouldn't it be a bit more comfortable if both nacells were used? I realize that splitting the crew might not be ideal, but hey...

So, I liked Archer watching his water polo game on that little PADD, but if they were going to be there for eight days, why didn't he think to take along some headphones?

Okay, let's talk about this "storm." First of all, it appears to be a natural phenomenon. Which is kinda odd, seeing as it travels faster than WARP FIVE! How on earth did it reach that speed? I suspect Q. And the storm is apparently really freaking huge, given that "eight day" journey. Otherwise, why couldn't the ship just sit and let the thing pass? Or were they going to be caught up in it no matter what? Apparently they were caught up in it, because Archer seems to suggest that they won't be checking that planet out any time soon. Why not? They couldn't have gone very far away from it after shutting the engines down. Also, if the storm was really approaching that fast, shouldn't Archer and everyone else have been screwed when they were looking out the windows towards the oncoming storm? I mean, it's traveling faster than warp five! It should be on top of them as soon as they can see it! And finally, ladies and gentlemen, three-dimensional thinking: the storm is very wide and deep, but y'know, it just ain't that thick. There was no way to fly "over" or "under" this thing in avoiding it?

To counterbalance that mini-rant, some things I liked. First, Phlox's scene with T'Pol was nicely done, though I might file all of his animals/supplies under "things that could possibly have gone in the other nacelle." Still, nice scene. Also, I liked the music for this episode. At times it seemed a bit over-the-top (like during the evacuation montage), but other than that it was a lot different, and in a good way.

So, uh, what exactly was gained by having Archer contact the alien guy? I mean, we get to see Archer ham it up for a while, and it's true that he does deliver the "get out or I'll destroy the ship" message, but wouldn't it have been more effective to suddenly turn the ship around and then contact the guy? You could contact him via the comm system that way, too, not giving away your position. Hmmmm...

Well, I'm glad they managed to put some twists into this. Until the true nature of the aliens was uncovered, I was thinking, "do the creators really thinkg it's so original to have another, 'passing aliens turn into threat' episode?" I still feel that they could have structured things better to heighten the suspense, though. For example, when we first saw the aliens and they started warning Archer about the storm, I immediately thought "well, they're up to something." And when we saw the soldiers, they very quickly gave away what they were all about. They could have added in more ambiguity or plot complexity, but I guess after last week I shouldn't complain.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to jump at least to warp 5? They can't escape but it would give them some more time!?

So they got all these supplies and the doc's pets through the "jeffries"tube?
Why not use the transporter for the material?

Future technology is really behind ours.
They have those pads to watch waterball games
besides other things but they can't mute them?

All those shakes but the kitchen was still clean
until Archer "visited"

Those aliens were very fast back onboard their ship.

I think the creators made the same mistake
from VOY again. How many ships will be packed in the shuttlebay?

(BTW, I had this episode until 10:00 GMT+1

Oh, and NANJAO- apparently there's no self-destruct sequence on the ship, as if there were, couldn't Archer just activate that?

Why didn't they bring more of the EV suits with them? Lack of space? Did they mention this?

I enjoyed this one.

Just curious, but why wasn’t transferring the ship’s crew to the planet’s surface a viable option to wait out the storm? I would think someone would mention it even if someone else were to explain why it wouldn’t work.

Wow, Phlox suddenly worries about having to choose between lifeforms to save. (I say no more).

When they power down the bridge, the main lights go out but all the viewscreens stay on. Why?

During the commercial break, UPN was proud to inform me that they had another great Star Trek movie that they would be showing soon. This great movie? Star Trek V. I am starting to realize why UPN is the doormat of the networks.

I am disturbed by the Tuvok-like security here. If I let onboard three aliens that I know nothing about, I would NOT allow them to put up curtains and hide themselves from the rest of the crew. They could very easily be up to no good.

When Archer was petting Porthos, T’Pol sniffed the air as if she smelled something awful. On a related note, where exactly is Porthos going to the bathroom?

And we also have a Janeway moment. The ship is heading toward the eddy of doom and Archer calls up Travis. Now this is an emergency situation that should require quick commands. But instead of “Travis, turn from the eddy” followed by an explanation, Archer has to explain his actions and then give the order. Come on, Archer. There is no hologram that you are having sexual relations with that require such a delay to save your ship.

Additional thoughts-

So I guess the entire time the aliens just thought that the ship was steering itself! Wouldn't they have noticed Travis' course corrections?

Good thing Archer didn't make a log entry concerning going into the nacelles. Had the alien captain found out about this, might've been a very different episode.

---Not bad. Not deep or that original overall, but I enjoyed watching it.
---Right off the bat, what I liked was the premise. The idea that the crew isn’t sufficiently shielded against a dangerous form of energy, and isn’t fast enough to outrun it, is an original premise, and one that works well, given Enterprise’s place in the timeline. There is genuine tension as the crew decide what to do, as they prepare to evacuate into the nacelles, and as the ship shudders now and then during their journey. I liked the cobbled-together look of the computers, the makeshift bridge, and everything else in there.
---The aliens taking over the ship routine also felt a bit fresher. For one thing, the takeover wasn’t the main premise. For another, although Tagrim was lying to Archer, it was not to take over the ship, but to escape their pursuers, and I was glad that the neutronic storm was not a ruse, but something dangerous that actually would’ve killed the crew had Tagrim not warned them. and while their pursuers boarded the ship, they didn’t even know anyone was on it, so it felt a bit different. I also liked that Archer came off as assertive and take-charge in repelling the aliens, that the aliens weren’t clowns like the Ferengi in Acquisition, and that in taking back the ship, the plot didn’t require stupidity on the part of the aliens, or goofiness on the part of the crew, as Shockwave partII did. Trip’s inability to leave the nacelles a second time seemed like a nice bit of plausibility, something we don’t often see with scenes involving away teams. Having Travis deliberately steer into the plasma eddies to persuade the Takret captain to leave was also a nice touch.

In Act 2, we see a person dressed in white giving Trip, and Reed their pot roast, but we don’t see him above the waist. Was this Chef?

---Continuity Nods:
In the opening scene of Act 2, Archer, answering a crossword puzzle question, establishes that Solkar was the first Vulcan ambassador to Earth, which may be the same person T’Lar mentioned as Sarek’s grandfather at the end of ST III.

---Terms:
Rellus Tagrim The leader of the Takret Militia deserters, who first greets Archer in the teaser.
Renth One of the Takret Militia deserters. (Name from startrek.com only.)
Guri Takret Militia deserters, whom Tagrim addresses by name in Act 3.
neutronic wave front Storm travelling at warp that Tygrin warns Archer about in the teaser. T’Pol says in the opening scene of Act 1 that it Spans half a dozen light years.
Class 5 Class of similar storm that T’Pol tells the crew in the opening scene of Act 1 a Vulcan ship encountered over a century ago, which is later revealed to have been lost.
radiolytic isotypes Particles that the storm is saturated with, as Phlox mentions in Act 1, and which will kill the crew within three minutes of exposure.
osmium alloy Material with which the Enterprise’s nacelles were heavily shielded, with an absorption depth of 20,000 particles per micron.
Class 3 Class of similar storm that Travis tells Trip that he once experienced in Act 1.
Takret System Place from where Rellus, Renth and Guri originated, as Archer mentions to them in Act 1.
Edosyan slugs One of the types of animals Phlox keeps in sickbay, as he metnions to T’Pol in Act 1.
T’Plana The Vulcan ship lost in a neutronic storm over a century prior, as Archer mentions to T’Pol in the ready room in Act 1.
Solkar The first Vulcan ambassador to Earth, which Archer mentions to a crewman in the opening scene of Act 2.
plasma eddies Spatial phenomenon, a cluster of which Travis tells Archer he detects 80,000 kilometers away in Act 2.
Kahs-wahn ritual} Ritual T’Pol tells Archer she underwent in Act 2, in which she was brought out to the desert and left there to survive for two days.
"The Day the Earth Stood Still" 1951 science fiction film scheduled to be shown in Compartment 5, as Trip mentions in Act 2.
Takret Militia Military body of which members board the Enterprise in Act 2, and to which Tagrim, Renth and Guri once belonged, as they reveal in Act 3.
Junction 42-Alpha Part of the ship Trip directs Archer and T’Pol to in the opening scene of Act 4.
"Murder by Invitation" 1941 Western film that the crew watch in Act 4.
Gyrannden System (Spelling approximate.) Place where the alien tells Archer he and his men plan to flee at the end of the episode.

And you thought Florida hurricanes were bad
In the second volume of his NextGen Nitpicker’s Guide, Phil Farrand pointed out under nits for Tin Man that Data stated in that episode that there was no natural phenomenon that could travel at warp, despite the energy cloud in Lonely Among Us and the Crystalline Entity in Datalore, which could both do so. In the teaser of this episode, Tagrim says the storm is travelling at warp, and that it can only be evaded at Warp 7. How can a storm made of natural energy travel faster than light?
And also, Anna Nicole Smith is coming on board, so we’d better count it as 88
Trip tells Travis when first checking out the catwalk in Act 1 that it’ll be stuffy once there are 83 people in there. As has been pointed out to me, I believe there are now 82 members of the crew, and with the three Takret, it’ll be 85.
And I thought Michael Jackson had a thing for his llama
If find it interesting, given Phlox’s attitude towards the concept of getting attached to pets seen in Dear Doctor and A Night in Sickbay, that when he requests more space from T’Pol in Act 1 for his sickbay animals because he doesn’t want to be forced to choose, he refers to this request as an "emotional appeal."
Ed Begley Jr. was passing through the system and lent them some solar panels from his car
If the crew is going to shut down the power grid, how will life support, sensors and propulsion be powered? I suppose it’s possible they’re using auxilliaries. When they do power down, we see that after the lights go out in the corridors, in Engineering, and on the bridge, smaller lights turn on. But T’Pol tells Archer in the ready room near the end of Act 1 a single neutronic surge could overload the grid and damage critical systems. If that’s true, why isn’t the same danger present by using those auxilliary lights, and whatever they’re using to steer the ship, polarize the hull plating and run sensors in the nacelles?
Apparently, the Starfleet Corps of Engineers thought plywood and weather caulking would be enough
A program I’ve seen on the Discovery Channel called Destination Mars detailed all the things that would go into a trip to Mars: How long it would take, the type of propulsion used, how the crew would eat and sleep, how they would combat muscle and bone atrophy in the vacuum of space, etc. One point was what would happen if the ship detected an ion storm from a solar flare. The program depicted a special small shelter into which the crew would flee until the storm was over, be it hours, a week, or longer. Building the entire ship out of the material used for the shelter would be impractical, so provisions to control the ship and survive for some time would be put into the shelter. Given that the Vulcans knew about these neutronic wave fronts, I’m surprised Starfleet didn’t make similar plans for the Enterprise. The plan that the crew comes up with appears to be a spur of the moment idea that they have to think up on very short notice.
Wait until Archer asks him to do his laundry
I’m not an expert on the duties of either modern Navy crewmen or Starfleet personnel, but do stewards also work as helmsmen? Taylor was mentioned as a steward in Act 1 of Cold Front, but in Act 2 of this episode, Archer tells Travis that Taylor will relieve him. A promotion? Two different Taylors? Or do helmsmen regularly work as stewards?
Actually, it is a different timeline. In that timeline, Robert Wise still directed it, but it didn’t put me to sleep.
Do the actors, writers and directors and other personnel who work in Star Trek exist in the Star Trek universe? I ask, because Trip mentions that The Day the Earth Stood Still will be played in the catwalk. That film was directed by Robert Wise, who directed Star Trek The Motion Picture! Or is the Star Trek universe like a different timeline, one where someone else directed that movie?
From the Salmon Swimming Upstream Dept.:
In Act 2, Trip notices that the matter injector and the antimatter injector are both online, and had to investigate it. Wait a minute. The ship has been at sublight up until now? How do they expect to get through a storm half a dozen light years wide travelling at high warp, if the Enterprise is travelling through it in the opposite direction at sublight?
Yeah, that laundry job is looking worse and worse by the mintue, eh, Travis?
At the end of the episode, Archer says the crew is holding up well, considering they haven’t had a change of clothes in eight days. What, they can set up a monitor to play movies, but they can’t have at least kept one or two jumpsuits or underwear under their beds?
"Attention crew of the Enterprise. This is Captain Archer. I have an important announcement: As a pilot, Ensign Taylor reallly blows. I repeat: Ensign Taylor really blows it as a pilot. He will be reporting back to the Mess Hall for steward duty as of tomorrow. That is all."
Once again, Travis is treated as if he’s the ONLY helmsman on the ship. At the end of the episode, Archer announces to the crew that they have finally cleared the storm "thanks to some fine piloting by Travis Mayweather." What, Travis alone piloted for EIGHT DAYS straight? Who piloted the ship when he was playing desert poker with Trip, Reed and Hoshi in Act 2?
Well, if so, at least they’re spared Adam Sandler and Pauly Shore films
In Act 2, Trip says The Day the Earth Stood Still is scheduled to be shown, and they crew later watch Murder by Invitation in Act 4. In Cold Front, Travis and Reed mentioned that they had watched Night of the Killer Androids. In Dear Doctor, they watched For Whom the Bell Tolls, and Sunset Boulevard was mentioned for the next week. In Vox Sola, Travis mentioned that Wages of Fear was scheduled. Are the only movies the crew watches from or before the mid-twentieth century? Isn’t there one movie in the library of 50,000 movies they have that’s from the 70’s, 80’s, or 90’s?

Gotta keep those regulars together!
If all 85 people are in both nacelles, shouldn't the command staff have been split up among them, with Archer in one, and T'Pol in other?

SMT: The fugitives say they were low-rank soldiers in an army, then a moment later say, "We tried to resign our commissions." Commissions are for officers.
Luigi Novi: In the Takret military, it appears they are not.

SMT: Wouldn't all of that loose food in the galley be picking up loads of radiation? I hope Chef wasn't planning on serving any of it once the storm passed – not that it would be too palatable after sitting in the open for eight days in any case.
Luigi Novi: I assumed they put it all into the catwalk.

SMT: The alien commander says, "I've been reading about you, Captain." So he reads English?
Luigi Novi: The Takret must have universal translators.

Sparrow47: So, every indication suggests that the crew holes up inside only one nacelle.
Luigi Novi: What indications are there?

Sparrow47: Okay, let's talk about this "storm." First of all, it appears to be a natural phenomenon. Which is kinda odd, seeing as it travels faster than WARP FIVE! How on earth did it reach that speed? I suspect Q. And the storm is apparently really freaking huge, given that "eight day" journey. ….And finally, ladies and gentlemen, three-dimensional thinking: the storm is very wide and deep, but y'know, it just ain't that thick. There was no way to fly "over" or "under" this thing in avoiding it?
Luigi Novi: T’Pol said it was half a dozen light years wide. Although she didn’t use the word "diameter," it’s possible it was not oblong, and it takes the Enterprise over four and a half days to travel just one light year.

Sparrow47: To counterbalance that mini-rant, some things I liked. First, Phlox's scene with T'Pol was nicely done, though I might file all of his animals/supplies under "things that could possibly have gone in the other nacelle."
Luigi Novi: If both nacelles are filled with people, shouldn’t the one who has to feed the animals be in the nacelle where the animals are? Otherwise, how many times a day does Phlox have to suit up in an EV suit and travel to the other nacelle?

Sparrow47: So, uh, what exactly was gained by having Archer contact the alien guy? I mean, we get to see Archer ham it up for a while, and it's true that he does deliver the "get out or I'll destroy the ship" message, but wouldn't it have been more effective to suddenly turn the ship around and then contact the guy? You could contact him via the comm system that way, too, not giving away your position.
Luigi Novi: Did Archer give away his position?

elwood: Wouldn't it be a good idea to jump at least to warp 5? They can't escape but it would give them some more time!?
Luigi Novi: They can’t, because they need the power grid to go to warp, it appears, and the inside of the nacelles have a temperature of 300 degrees when the warp coils are active. (I simply don’t understand how they could go against the storm, and not be pushed back with it if the storm is at high warp.) Also, Fallen Hero showed that they can’t maintain Warp 5 for more than a short while, and that it causes damage to Engineering, which would be empty during the trip through the storm.

elwood: They have those pads to watch waterball games
besides other things but they can't mute them?
Luigi Novi: No one who watches sports wants to do so without sound.

PaulG: If I let onboard three aliens that I know nothing about, I would NOT allow them to put up curtains and hide themselves from the rest of the crew. They could very easily be up to no good.
Luigi Novi: Perhaps Reed had an idea of what they were doing back there, and didn’t want to know about it.

PaulG: When Archer was petting Porthos, T’Pol sniffed the air as if she smelled something awful. On a related note, where exactly is Porthos going to the bathroom?
Luigi Novi: Same place the crew is. Archer probably holds him over the toilet, or had him trained.

Sparrow47: Good thing Archer didn't make a log entry concerning going into the nacelles. Had the alien captain found out about this, might've been a very different episode.
Luigi Novi: Maybe he did, but the Takret captain just picked random files to look at. Then again, that could be a nit, since one might think he’d look at the most recent one to look for clues about where the crew and the Takret Militia deserters were.

Wait a moment now I thought they might have all been in one nacelle or was it both? Can some one check on that?

I watched the episode a second time and didn't notice anything.

UNLESS---I suppose it's possible that Trip's statement to Travis when they were first checking out the darkened catwalk in Act 1--that it'll get stuffy in there once 82 people are in there could be seen as an indication of that, but I just assumed he meant 82 people in both nacelles.

It's also possible that because the entire command staff is in one nacelle, that Sparrow took it to mean that the entire crew is, but when I first watched it, I simply thought that the crew was split up, and that the commanders where together because they had to have scenes together. Then again, maybe Sparrow is right. If so, I would think that a nit, since by splitting up the entire crew, only half of it will die if something goes wrong in one of the nacelles.

Nice episode, I enjoyed it. Like many of you have mentioned it had many original points, and for me was not entirely predictable. No nits just a couple observations:

I liked how Trip acted while he was walking around in the suit. First he knows where to hide in engineering so he won’t be discovered. Then he knows how to create a distraction so the intruders would move away in the right direction so he could leave engineering. In the hallway, when he sees lights coming around the corner, he steps into a small room. He quickly does all these things in a calm methodical manner, which I would expect from someone in his position and as someone who should know the ship like the back of his hand.

I am generally annoyed by romantic tension stuff between Archer and T’Pol. However, I found myself liking the scene after they turn off their PADDs and are talking to each other while lying down. The dynamics of that conversation, such as rolling over and laying on one’s side to speak to someone, are similar to or suggest the kind of intimacy that comes from sharing a bed. If they have Archer and T'Pol getting closer in a subtle way with scenes like this, as opposed to rubbing gel on each other, I could get used to it. The conversation itself also opened up character growth opportunities for T’Pol with regard to befriending members of the crew.

I also liked how the three deserters were set up. They weren’t set up as overly belligerent or unlikable so that the “oh I guess we judged them too harshly” moral aspect wasn’t part of the plot, which it often seems to be when strangers who deceive are involved. They keep to themselves, think the crew is making too much noise and are a pain. On the other hand, they were having a hard time digesting the food on the Enterprise, which gives them another dimension and prepares the audience to sympathize with them later.

I guess I liked this episode because the crew acted professionally and there weren’t any major plot holes. Is that too much to ask for in the future?

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!

A queasy stomach is gastro-INTESTINAL? Clearly, something else is happening that neither Reed nor Phlox cares to discuss.

SMT: Without going into heavy astrophysical detail, suffice it to say that suns that close together would just mean somewhat shorter nights, not a usual absence of them.

:: Without inviting heavy astrophysical detail, do we know anything about how planets orbiting a binary system would behave? An elliptical orbit with the stars as foci would have the result you describe. But could planets orbit just one of the stars, either perpendicularly to their common axis (picture a second sun that stays over the arctic circle) or passing between them? (Just curious.)

SMT: . . . since the wavefront is moving at high warp, and Enterprise is not, something 80,000 kilometers away should be on top of them in an instant.

:: Isn’t Enterprise being carried along in the wave? (“Salmon swimming upstream,” to borrow Luigi’s MST.)

Luigi Novi: If the crew is going to shut down the power grid, how will life support, sensors and propulsion be powered?

:: Indeed. And, although they seem a little vague on the point, they HAVE to be under propulsion because (1) they’re moving relative to the wave (and they’re not anchored); and (2) they’re able to steer. (Like in “African Queen.”)

Sparrow47: . . . the storm is very wide and deep, but y'know, it just ain't that thick. There was no way to fly "over" or "under" this thing in avoiding it?

:: You’d think. Or at least “climb” until just before impact, penetrate perpendicularly, and resume “climb” to the shortest way out.

SMT: Wouldn't all of that loose food in the galley be picking up loads of radiation?

:: Do we know that it’s ionizing radiation? If not, it might cook the food, but not render it unsafe.

PaulG: . . . Janeway moment. The ship is heading toward the eddy of doom and Archer calls up Travis. Now this is an emergency situation that should require quick commands. But instead of “Travis, turn from the eddy” followed by an explanation, Archer has to explain his actions and then give the order.

:: I agree. Even though I defended the casual dialog in Reed’s rescue of Travis in “Detained,” the danger here is IMMINENT. Something like “hard-a-port” (is that sailor talk?), not “Uh, Travis, you’re not still headed for that eddy are you?”

Luigi: Was this Chef?
:: IIRC, someone said “thank you, Chef.”

Luigi Novi: No one who watches sports wants to do so without sound.
:: Howard Cosell, Dennis Miller, O.J. Simpson, Dick Vitale, Joe Namath, Myron Cope, Brent Musberger, and I could go on, but you get the point.

I am reminded why I usually avoid watching the previews. I hate it when a preview gives a major plot point away that doesn't happen until nearly halfway through the episode. If I hadn't seen the previews I might have been pleasantly surprised.

Once again, is gravity the default? It seems that by living and working in space you would be accustomed or at least trained to handle zero-G. And they could fit a lot more stuff in the nacelles in zero-G.

Nice bit of continuity referring to Hoshi's claustrophobia, even if it was virtually her only line. I also liked that Trip asked about Travis' "boomer" previous experiences.

I'd think that Archer would want to watch water polo in landscape rather than portrait format, but considering that PADDs don't appear even to have a mute button, I'm not surprised they don't have this feature either.

When Archer first saw the blanketed area, I thought it was the latrine and he was waiting. Another possibility I considered was that it was certain crewmembers putting it up for privacy, hence his wry smile. As we found out, it was the three guests.

Trip seemed like a cabbagehead when he didn't even think of providing for latrines in a survival situation. It was late in the process when he was reminded of it. At least he should learn to delegate some responsibilities.

Do the actors, writers and directors and other personnel who work in Star Trek exist in the Star Trek universe?Luigi Novi

Um, I don't see how this is a problem. Wise could still be around, he just wouldn't have the Star Trek movie on his bio.

At the end of the episode, Archer announces to the crew that they have finally cleared the storm "thanks to some fine piloting by Travis Mayweather." What, Travis alone piloted for EIGHT DAYS straight?Luigi Novi

I took this to mean that Travis had figured out a course that got them out of the storm a little faster, not that he'd been at the helm all the time.

What indications are there?Luigi Novi
Wait a moment now I thought they might have all been in one nacelle or was it both?Richie Vest

Well, I guess the reason that I thought they were only in one is because they never made any reference to anyone being in the other nacelle. But I can't point to any line of dialouge that says it one way or the other. Clearly, the creators wanted it to be ambigouous... er, wait...

0T’Pol said it was half a dozen light years wide. Although she didn’t use the word "diameter," it’s possible it was not oblong, and it takes the Enterprise over four and a half days to travel just one light year.Luigi Novi

I dunno, it just seemed rather thin to me, as in thin enough that the ship could escape simply by going "up."

If both nacelles are filled with people, shouldn’t the one who has to feed the animals be in the nacelle where the animals are? Otherwise, how many times a day does Phlox have to suit up in an EV suit and travel to the other nacelle?Luigi Novi

Well, here's the thing. If they're using both nacelles, then couldn't Phlox just split the animals and have someone on the other side feed them? More to the point, why is he taking all of them to begin with? Wasn't sickbay heavily sheilded enough, the problem was that it couldn't fit the whole crew? Couldn't he have left some behind, but would it take to long for someone to go down and feed them all in an AV suit? I suppose it could have, but still...

Another thing I didn't remember until now- T'Pol forgot that the Vulcan ship was destroyed? She forgot? T'Pol?? There just seemed to be something more going on than she was letting onto in regards to this ship. Wonder what it was?

Yes, sickbay is the most heavily shielded part of the ship, but then my same question applies--how many times a day would he have to suit up and journey into the ship to feed them, and make sure he could feed all of them in 20-something minutes? As far as putting them into the other nacelle, I don't see why you wouldn't just put all of them together with the person feeding them, esp. since he knows what and how much they eat, and what to look for if they're not doing well.

It should be noted that it seems even the most innocuous of sounds tends to disturb T'Pol, even if "only slightly", lending support to the fact that she would retreat to her quarters from the bridge if something like, oh, a loud drilling noise was going on? The creators had lots of little good continuity bits for the characters. Is it really a sacrifice for Malcolm to give up his Pineapple Cobbler if he's allergic to it? (Or is he still getting shots for that?)

I'm not certain why the EVA suits could only provide protection from the radiation for only 22 minutes.

Why could some devices requiring power be used but not others?

Well, she meditated eight days in advance.
So, T'Pol has to meditate before sleep or bad thing will happen to her mind, right? The fact is I haven't seen her meditating before she tried to sleep in her scene with Archer. Of course, that could be explained by assuming that she doesn't have to meditate just before sleep.

No, that was nice, original (gasp!) episode. I liked it.

On slightly unrelated note, PaulG, what exactly do you want from Tuvok's security measures? I think he was rather competent seurity chief, contrary to the Worf. I was positively suprised when in "Survival Instinct" I saw a security officer standing next to the some door, presumably protecting some sensitive equipment from all that alien visitors. And his aim didn't sucked so bad, and he actually managed to win some hand to hand fights with aliens. I also liked his rescure plans (for example the one in "Frendship One").
I know that there's that problem with Tuvok and security WALKING to the threat area instead of walking, but keep in mind that those sets weren't exactly build from sturdy materials.
I heard that Jonathan Frakes once slipped on the bridge set while walking, leavig a Riker-shaped hole in the wall.

I thought the mute function for the pad would be good for T'Pol in this very moment because she wouldn't disturb Archer and it doesn't need to beep for every "click".

Anyway I just had another idea what might have been a more plausible storm:

It does NOT travel at "high" warp speeds
but fast enough so that enterprise can't outrun it with impulse.
It's radiation disables the warp-field and is still harmfull for the crew so they have almost the same problem as shown. The 3 fugitives warn enterprise about the storm but its too late to jump to warp.

From that the story could advance how it did could it?
With this plot there is no problem with
a phenomeneon faster than light,
that would have hit the ship almost the second they saw it.

Hans Thielman: I'm not certain why the EVA suits could only provide protection from the radiation for only 22 minutes.
Luigi Novi: I didn’t have a problem with that. Personally, my question was why they could only provide protection for exactly 22 minutes.

elwood: It does NOT travel at "high" warp speeds, but fast enough so that enterprise can't outrun it with impulse. Its radiation disables the warp-field and is still harmfull for the crew so they have almost the same problem as shown. The 3 fugitives warn enterprise about the storm but its too late to jump to warp.
Luigi Novi: So why does Tagrim tell them that nothing less than Warp 7 will suffice? If the Enterprise can't outrun it at Warp 4.5, then it must be because the storm is travelling at warp, and faster than Warp 4.5.

Yes, sickbay is the most heavily shielded part of the ship, but then my same question applies--how many times a day would he have to suit up and journey into the ship to feed them, and make sure he could feed all of them in 20-something minutes?Luigi Novi

Well, he'd probably only have to go once a day. The only limitations on this would be, I think, if the raditation prevented him from making multiple trips, or if it would take too long to feed them all. But again he could employ other crewmembers in both scenarios.

So why does Tagrim tell them that nothing less than Warp 7 will suffice? If the Enterprise can't outrun it at Warp 4.5, then it must be because the storm is travelling at warp, and faster than Warp 4.5.Luigi Novi

Er, you did notice that Elwood was speaking hypothetically, right?

Luigi Novi: ...Personally, my question was why they could only provide protection for exactly 22 minutes.

This is a plot device I call "The Rotten Apple Syndrome" which states that any decomposition process can be defined in exact time units. For example, Scotty knows the engine is gonna blow in exactly 4 minutes and 30 seconds, but if they shut it down before that, all is OK. Same here -- if they are out there in the radiation for less than the 20 minutes they will be fine.

Like a rotting apple, it should be a cumulative process, difficult to reverse. At some point you look at an apple and say "That's rotten" but how do you denote the exact determining point?

(I hope I made that point clear -- many holiday parties today!!!!!!)

OK—you know the radiation rate in the unshielded part of the ship. You multiply by the suit’s protective factor to get the rate inside the suit. You turn to medical regulations for a table of maximum total cumulative doses before specified treatment protocols. You go down the table to find the allowable cumulative dose for an estimated treatment delay of 8 days. You divide that allowable dose by the radiation rate inside the suit to get the allowable exposure time. Exceed that time limit at your own risk, against medical advice, as the tactical situation dictates. IOW, same as today (only we can’t yet reverse the effects of radiation exposure, and I think future technology can).
So the question boils down to "Where do they get the values in the medical regs?". Again, same as today: PFM.

It was nice to see the glow from the nacelles go off when they where powered down. But that may be a nit on previous Trek shows: Why, when a ship lost power or ejected the core, did it still have glowing nacelles?

Sparrow: Er, you did notice that Elwood was speaking hypothetically, right?
Luigi Novi: Ack!! Sorry, Elwood. I missed that. Thanks, Sparrow. I knew I shouldn’t have stopped taking my ADD medication….

Influx: This is a plot device I call "The Rotten Apple Syndrome" which states that any decomposition process can be defined in exact time units. For example, Scotty knows the engine is gonna blow in exactly 4 minutes and 30 seconds, but if they shut it down before that, all is OK. Same here -- if they are out there in the radiation for less than the 20 minutes they will be fine.
Luigi Novi: Actually, that makes perfect sense to me. The magnetic containment fields can be measured in terms of at what percentage they’re operating, just like shields. A prominent example of this is in Disaster(TNG), in which O’Brien and Ro were constantly monitoring the level of the warp core containment field, and debating whether to separate the saucer.

A more plausible situation that I do think falls under the Rotten Apple Sydrome (to use your term), would be the nit Phil Farrand pointed out for Final Mission(TNG), in which the computer could count down to the second, when the exposure to the radiation would be lethal. (On the other hand, even that could be anit-nitted: Perhaps the computer is simply programmed with a protocol with a somewhat arbitrarily-set time limit, after which modern medicine decides that radiation exposure should cease. Possibly this protocol time limit is a conservatively short one, set just to be on the safe side, but to allow a bit of a cushion in case it is exceeded.)

TJ Fleming’s explanation also makes good sense.

But there’s also one important thing I should point out—no one ever said anything about "radiation." They said "radiolytic isotopes." True, I think there are isotopes involved in radiation, and "radiolytic" does seem close in its root word origin, but it would appear that this term is a technobabble phrase deliberately chosen so as to not choose a more solidly-real life term like "radiation," because the creators didn’t want anyone scrutinizing the exposure premise too closely.

Luigi,

Elwood's non-warp storm was what should have been done not what was done.


As for Phlox's animals and the one or two nacelle bit, let me drop my 2 cents. Phlox's animals are supposedly medicinal. ("We'll just use some Regulan blood worms, Ensign".) If they are in two nacelles then an epidemic that requires Denebian sloth hairs but the Denebian sloths are in the other nacelle could be problematic. (We'd also need a back up to Phlox in the other nacelle to handle upset stomachs and the like. Anyone see Ensign Cutler?)

Height of the storm: When Archer saw it out of his window (humorous attempted anti-nit the wave front was "U" shaped so he can see something traveling at him faster than light without it being on top of the ship) it seemed like it was not as high as wide or long.

Anti-nit the one helmsman nit for Travis: Archer is a Republican. Travis getting them out of the storm early is like Reagan causing communism to collapse. Just as Eisenhower, Truman, etc., played no part in the Soviet demise, neither did any other helmsmen play a part in shortening the journey through the storm.

If they are in two nacelles then an epidemic that requires Denebian sloth hairs but the Denebian sloths are in the other nacelle could be problematic. (We'd also need a back up to Phlox in the other nacelle to handle upset stomachs and the like. Anyone see Ensign Cutler?)Blue Berry

Again, if there was something needed on one side that wasn't on the other, someone could certainly run it there. But the fact that you'd need two medics is an important one, and I think that once again, the fact that we didn't hear about such is an indication that they holed up in only one nacelle. Of course, perhaps they opted to do so over splitting the crew simply because of all the problems it would raise. They only had four hours to evacuate, you know!

T'Pol said the first Vulcan ambassador to Earth was Solkar... this sounds vaguely like the name of Sarek's father. T'Pau in Star Trek 3 calls Sarek "Child of Skon, Child of Solkar" (or something similar)

Grandfather. Skon was his father. (According to the reference books.) I mentioned this in my first post.

And yeah, Berry, Elwood's theory would've been more plausible, and since I sometimes include alternative scenarios that would've presented no nit, I included Elwood's at the end of that nit in my Nitpick Document.

Luigi Novi: . . . no one ever said anything about "radiation." They said "radiolytic isotopes."

:: Good point.
But I think we can make a guess as to what they're talking (babbling) about by analogy to hydrolysis and electolysis. I'm picturing isotopes whose radiation decomposes tissue ("I'm mellltiiinnng!"), as opposed, for example, to mutagenic effects.

Of course, this brings back SMT's nit about the loose food in the galley: it would decompose.

Solkar is Sarek's GRANDFATHER.

I thought that the catwalk was the structure between the warp nacelles?

Darn! Now we know Chef can't be Isaac Hayes!

I wonder if they're going to always do a "Wilson" with Chef? i.e. Not show his face ever?

How do we know that wasn't Chef's assistant?

Because they specifically said "Thank you, Chef".

Luigi noticed that Robert Wise directed both "The Day the Earth Stood Still" and "Star Trek: The Motion Picture."

Well, here's an article on the Star Trek timeline, explaining what many of the people associated with Star Trek were doing in the absence of that show. It seems that an early uber-fan, Bjo Trimble, watched the Smothers Brothers' show (instead of Star Trek) and encouraged them to run for Congress...

http://scifi.about.com/blcnptworldwithoutstartrek.htm?terms=smothers

What do you think?

I did notice that during the scene with T'Pol & Archer laying down, T'Pol's "dinners" were covered by the blanket, in the next shot they were below them, then the next they were above them again.
Also, since the aliens were able to detect the refuges ship aboard Enterprise from outside the "storm" and from a distance presumeably, why wouldn't they be able to tell that the ship wasn't destroyed and simply come back?

Because they specifically said "Thank you, Chef". - ScottN

While I agree that was probably Chef who handed them their packets, there are other possibilities other than they were addressing Chef himself...

1. They were being sarcastic.

2. They were making a thankful prayer.

3. This is simply their matra when they receive food.

Thank you Captain McCoy.

Yeah it probably was Chef, but Issac Hayes is not out of the running yet. (He just needs the Bengals to beat Tampa Bay in the last game of the season. [Note for Europeans and non-NFL fans: the odds on that would be like 1,000 to 1 but it is still possible.])

It wasn't T'Pau, but T'Lar, that was in Star Trek III: The Search For Spock.

Re Phlox's animals... the reptile-like critters could have holed up in Sick Bay and probably survived for eight days without food, and if they were due for a meal in that time, Phlox could have had someone rig up a battery-powered release mechanism to let out food.

As to the nearly forgotten planet and its 4-days-of-night-per-month... I've had a lot of opportunity to consider the dynamics of binary stars by writing my own novel about a colony in the Alpha Centauri solar system. I've become very well oriented to postulating the effects. (Yes, I hope to publish the story; I can't right now because I don't have the money to do it!)

I noticed that the two stars were close together as seen from the planet. This means one of two things:

1 - the stars are close together and the planet orbits their barycenter, meaning the stars are always rising and setting together. If this is so, binary, unary or 50 stars all together won't affect the amount of dark time. However, the planet's axial tilt will: as of one week ago, all points inside the Antarctic Circle on Earth were constantly lit, and places like the Falkland Islands were getting daylight over 18 hours out of every 24. A little further south, say the Antarctic Peninsula, and there are places where 3 hours out of 24 are dark, the equivalent of 4 days out of 30 worth of darkness.

Under these conditions, we could postulate that this planet has an extreme axial tilt, something like 45 or 50 degrees or more (Uranus is 98). This would exagerrate the seasonal day length variation phenomenon we have on Earth.

2 - the stars are just before, or just past, conjunction as seen from the planet. In this scenario, the planet is orbiting one of the two stars. It is, therefore, half a year from opposition. Over a span of about 1/8 of its orbit around "opposition", the secondary sun will spend nearly all "night" in the sky.

In this scenario, an axial tilt of the planet would add to the exotic effects of having backlighting from the secondary star. In fact, in my considerations of the Alpha Centauri system, I realized that while the planet's axial tilt changes in an annual cycle, that tilt, relative to the secondary star, will change only over the orbital period of that secondary star.

Alpha Centauri B orbits A in a period of 79.92 years. If a planet has a 365 Earth-day orbit around A, then its axial tilt to Alpha Centauri B goes through a cycle in 79.92 years, something like our ability to observe Uranus over its 84 year orbit. When the planet is at a 0 degree tilt to B, B can be seen over the entire planet in a 24-hour cycle. When the planet is at a 25 degree axial tilt, B cannot be seen beyond one 65 degree parallel, and is constantly in the sky beyond the other 65 degree parallel.

It occurs to me right now that at certain times of the year, like right now, the outer planets are probably not visible from Antarctica! Venus and Mercury are probably not visible from the Arctic right now!

Scenario 2, therefore, rules it out as an explanation because the stars are in conjunction, ruling out lighting from the secondary star during the majority of the night.

The only explanation is an axial tilt, which fits either scenario 1 or 2. The binary stars themselves, positioned as they are as seen in the episode's opening shot, cannot explain the planet having so little darkness.

Scenario 3 - just for fun - the planet really rips around one of those stars! Hah!

Now, the planet's rotation would have to be very well timed, but even then, the secondary star would whip by several times during the night, making a dizzying flash across the night sky! Scenario 3 definitely wouldn't work!

Besides, to orbit that fast, the planet would have to be closer than Mercury, be roasted, and be tidally locked, the same side facing the star all the time.

Too bad they didn't check this out more and create an opening optical that showed the planet's day side with a bright secondary star behind it... OR... use dialogue indicating axial tilt as the reason for the few hours of night.

Geoff Capp
Yukon

Oh, yes, try this:

You fly in an ultra-light airplane at 100 miles an hour east. A hurricane is moving at 3.6 million miles an hour toward the west. The hurricane is 100 miles in depth.

How long does it take you to traverse the hurricane until you get into the lee of it?

Answer: 1/10 of a second.

What if the hurricane is 10,000 miles in depth?

Answer: 10 seconds.

What if the hurricane is 1,000,000 miles in depth?

Answer: 16 minutes, 40 seconds.

Now, this neutronic wave. If it's moving Warp 6, cubed, that's 216 times the speed of light. It is moving 150 billion miles an hour.

If the Enterprise just aimed at the neutronic wave front, moving faster than Warp 5, it would be past them in less than a few hours.

If the neutronic storm is 5 billion miles in depth, it would pass a "stationary" object like the planet in 2 minutes.

TWO MINUTES!!!

If it takes eight days for the rear-ward moving Enterprise to get through... well, let's say Enterprise was simply using its engines to hold station and steer past eddies.

It would imply the storm's depth was a staggering 28.8 TRILLION MILES in depth! That is slightly more than the distance - 4.4 light years - between Sol and Alpha Centauri!

Thinking about how a warp speed wave could be visible in normal space got me to thinking about the energy wave from Praxis in "The Undiscovered Country" - perhaps the wave is in subspace but leaks into normal space at regular intervals to produce the phenomenon visible to Sulu's Excelsior crew while they're at sub-light? Even that doesn't make sense, and I'm not sure how to explain myself... so I'll drop that tangent.

Geoff Capp

Geoff Capp: You fly in an ultra-light airplane at 100 miles an hour east. A hurricane is moving at 3.6 million miles an hour toward the west.
Luigi Novi: I'd say an ultralight would destroyed instantly by such a hurricane.

Geoff Capp: Now, this neutronic wave. If it's moving Warp 6, cubed, that's 216 times the speed of light. It is moving 150 billion miles an hour.
Luigi Novi: I don't think it's ever been established how fast the Enterprise-era Warp 6 is.

Luigi, we can make assumptions from the fact that Warp 4.5 is approximately 80-100c (see the discussions over on Broken Bow).

How so?

Never much liked the rubric of warp cubed=nc (a post hoc rationalization if ever there were one). Natural logs would seem more in tune with the physical world. It would even be consistent with ScottN's example (ln 90=4.5). The warp 6 neutronic wave would be 400c, and warp 10 would be a whopping 22,000c. Unfortunately, it's too late in the game to make c=warp zero.

Geoff--Thanks, but my request for info on how binary star systems might work specified "without inviting heavy astrophysical detail." You're making me think! Stop it!

TJFleming, when I join a discussion late and there are so many messages, I tend to skim and skip, so I never knew about your message way up there. I thought I was independently raising a point of discussion in talking about the absurdity of Trip's statement, given the positions of the two bright stars and the planet.

Sorry about making your brain give off steam and saying "TILT!", but I've become quite knowledgeable about binary stars' planets thanks to my hard work to make my story's setting something a reader could experience.


4.5 ^3 is 91.125. ScottN therefore supplied info I lacked by recalling that detail. It does appear that cubing is being used.

In TNG's tech manual, apparently the warp factor to the power of about 3.3 is normally used, until Warp 9, then it goes up sharply, and even sharper still past 9.8 or 9.9 so that entities like Q can warp space beyond technology's reach.


Geoff Capp
Yukon

I kind of skimmed through the show but I recalled from a TOS episode that Scotty said it would take a lot longer than the 20 minutes that Trip said to start the engines from cold, and that was 100 years later. Maybe I didn't get the technical jargon, but this could be a nit.

In Archer's quarters/ready room (not sure which), I saw a sketch of a 20th century shuttle. Maybe there's a pictures of each of the previous Enterprises there...nice touch.

To LN:

Archer gave away his position after the message, someone on the bridge said he was somewhere on Deck 5, if I'm not mistaken.

Zul, you are thinking of The Naked Time(TOS). That's why they had to do the implosion start that reversed time.

Zul,

I have not rewatched the episode, but I think Trips time was for the catwalk to get unbareably hot. My car engine goes "R-RRR-RRRRRRRR" on cold mornings before it actualy starts. I assume the heating of the catwalk is like the third "R". (Hey, don't make fun of my car!)

This isn't really a nit as you'll see but it is something that streches credulity.

Enterprise NX-01 is significantly smaller than Enterprise NCC-1701, which in turn is even smaller than NCC-1701D. Now remember the episode of NextGen where Troi has telepathic images of a murder taking place in the nacelle housing? (Sorry, I forget the name but I think it was 7th season). If I recall, what we see is a small workstation and a large area for plasma flow. This makes sense enough. However, on NX-01 the large area isn't for plasma flow, but for people to walk through!? It seems to me that there just shouldn't be this much space in Enterprise's nacelles for access. I can buy a crawlspace under or through the guts of the engine for access, but not the luxurious catwalk and side accomodations shown here. However, we saw it so it is now law. Doesn't make much sense but that's how it is.

I've wondered, in general, where does Porthos use the toilet? Does Archer have a pile of papers in the corner? I haven't met the dog yet that will use a toilet, though I have heard of cats doing it.

Jonathan: You're referring the the seventh-season TNG episode Eye of the Beholder.
It has been a while since I've seen that episode, but I don't recall anything being said about the events of that episode occurring inside the nacelle housing. In fact, I got the impression that they were somewhere just below the nacelle pylons. Does anyone else remember this differently?

We did see the nacelles in the episode.

However, on NX-01 the large area isn't for plasma flow, but for people to walk through!?
Luigi Novi: No, it is for plasma flow. People can't normally walk through there when the warp drive is activated because the temperature is 300 degrees.

Blue Berry: My car engine goes "R-RRR-RRRRRRRR" on cold mornings before it actualy starts.

:: Lucky. Mine goes "F-UUUUUU-UUU-U" before it actually dies.

Geoff Capp--Kudos! Entirely too much science fiction is bad science and/or bad fiction. Good to see someone is trying.

Richie, this is up to 107k.