• Show Board 2 September 28 - 6:31 pm

• Show Board 3 March 05 - 9:33 am

Potential minor spoilers for those who haven't seen it yet....
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They add some history regarding mind melds. The Vulcans seem less and less like the ones we've encountered in TOS and TNG etc. My question that I didn't really understand is that obviously they find a cure for the Pe'Nar syndrome in the latter centuries as we see mind melds performed frequently. Also, do all Vulcans in the latter centuries have mind meld capabilities instead of the "minority" that is referred to in this episode?

I have to admit that upon hearing the opening theme and seeing the images, this first time after the Columbia tragedy, it struck a strong emotional chord in me like never before. And kudos to the creators for the touching opening tribute.

I don't want to say too much about the message of this episode except for this. It would have had a much stronger impact (and I thought they were leading up to this) if T'Pol had confessed at the end that she already had Pe'Nar syndrome when she was forced into the mind meld. I.E. she had done it earlier, by choice. I thought I detected her sidestepping that declaration throughout the episode. If it's revealed in a later episode, it would not have as much impact as it would have had here.

I liked Phlox's wife. She exhibited some of the same speech patterns and mannerisms that he did. Great job by the actress.

During the Interspecies Medical Exchange conference, we hear a PA announcement about an event being rescheduled for 1400 hours. First, why is the voice in English, when humans are presumably a tiny minority at the conference if they're present at all? Second, why in hours, for the same reason?

While setting up the neutron microscope, Feezal instructs Trip to "insert the thick end" of an instrument into a port. It looked like that instrument was equally thick at both ends.

If this disease affects the structure of the brain, how can its presence be determined by a scan of DNA collected from a fingertip? That is DNA we see on the screen.

First we are told the meld occurred nearly a year ago. A bit later, we're told it was over a year ago. Yes, I suppose the anniversary instant could have fallen between these two statements, but is it really likely?

The plot of this story hinges on the fact that the meld that infected T'Pol was forced upon her, not voluntary. Trouble is, we saw "Fusion". We saw that it did indeed start out as consensual, only later becoming forced. Not to be a logic-chopper(logic is for Vulcans, right?), but T'Pol is either lying, or conveniently redefining consent to fit her situation, or the writers are ignoring the facts of an earlier episode to make a point.

And do they ever make a point, over and over and over, and at the expense of much more than continuity with "Fusion". Mind melding is now a minority trait among Vulcans? Mind melding is socially disgraceful, rather than extremely private but otherwise accepted? (Or not so private. Remember the brief meld T'Pau initiated with Spock, in front of outworlders, in "Amok Time"?) The creators of "Enterprise" threw away a lot of inter-series continuity to make their allegorical points(over and over) with this episode.

But they also did fatal damage to the Vulcan race as we know it, and why? Because they wanted to make their antagonists pure caricatures of prejudice, drawing the analogies as broadly as they could. We've seen this before in Trek—"Let That Be Your Last Battlefield", anyone?—but even that was nuanced compared to this. Not once could they allow an antagonist character to explain—not recite, but explain—Vulcan society's disapproval of melding. This could have been an intriguing expansion of Vulcan culture, to learn why some would disapprove of an ability we had taken for granted until now, but the writers tossed that chance away. They made these characters unthinking bigots. Read that again. In the previous twenty-four years of Star Trek, was there an adjective one was less likely to apply to Vulcans than "unthinking"?

They're supposed to be intellectual titans. They should be able to argue rings around Archer, pro and con. We get none of that. We get "Mind melds bad. Mind melders worse. This is a recording."

Inexcusable.

I had ambitions, as a professional writer, of getting on the staff of Enterprise. Those ambitions went nowhere. I don't mind that as much as I did an hour ago.

Given that "Enterprise" hasn't proven itself to be consistently competent with the morality tales, I was a bit wary of this episode. However, I didn't find it to be all that bad, although I was distracted by the other people in the room and thus missed chunks of it. Alas.

Three things I liked:

3. Despite once again recycling some premises (see below), the sub-plot with Feezal had some excellent moments.
2. Humans! chuckle, chuckle...
1. Ah, no easy answer to the dilemma. If T'Pol speaks out, she places the "minority" under a heavier burden. If she doesn't, she's in deep trouble. This sort of conundrum makes for good storytelling; hopefully the writers can come up with more.

Three things I didn't like:

3. The sub-plot with Feezal not only gave us another instance of "Trip's irresistable charm to the womenfolk," as seen in "Unexpected," "Oasis," and "Precious Cargo," but also included shades of "Destiny" as well. I know that Trek's got a lot of history to work with, so it's easy to find parallels, but I still think the writers should be pressed to find originality. Oh, and while we're on the subject, once again we're treated to the recurring "the High Command tries to get T'Pol off the ship" theme. What, exactly did she do to the High Command to get them so pissed off?
2. This ep had some interesting graphics to it, including a couple of shots of the Entperprise from unusual angles. I didn't have any problem with those (so why am I mentioning them here? hmmmmmm...) but I did have some problems with the shots of the conference and city. Specifically, it was really really obvious they were done with computers; they looked too slick and too... well... computer-y. This problem really manifested itself when the camera panned down to show the two figures walking down a corridor. There was then a rather rough cut to the two Vulcans opening the door. It looked like a great setup where they could go from the computer image to the live shot, but that didn't happen. Rats.
1. So... this Pa'nar syndrome... there's only one way in which it can be contracted. And T'Pol knows what that one way is. Furthermore, she knows about the "minority" in Vulcan culture that can mind-meld. So... all the way back in "Fusion," not only did none of this come up, but T'Pol acted like she didn't know what mind-melds were. Hmmmmmmm...

other thoughts-

Actually, I think this was all I had for this episode. I might come up with more later.

"Final" Verdict- eh, slightly above average... I'll give it a B-.

As for Phlox's line near the end, "Humans..." heh, heh; the thought occurred to me that maybe, just maybe, Phlox and his wife were just playing a nasty trick on Trip all along. "Say, beloved, would you mind coming on to Commander Tucker just to get a good reaction out of him? I'll even egg him on!" Of course, since I missed the first twenty minutes of the episode, for all I know this very conversation actually took place. Not that I think it did...

It didn't.

Good to know.

I liked it from right from Act 1! The allegory was very well done, I liked the continuity that was made with Fusion, and I liked how the Vulcans became suspicious, interrogated T’Pol and used the PADD to get a DNA sample from her. I had an idea why T’Pol would refuse to explain that what happened in Fusion was against her will, and I was glad I was right. The fact that there is an Enterprise-era stigma against mind melds, which we know to be an integral part of Vulcan society by the TOS/TNG eras, is VERY interesting! One thing though: I think it would’ve been better if Yuris only revealed that he was a Melder in Act 4 not only to Oratt, but to us as well. If he explained his helping T’Pol in Act 2 as mere sympathy, but didn’t reveal that he was a Melder himself until Act 4, it would’ve been more powerful.
--Phlox telling Dr. Oratt that a response from his colleague on Denobula would take 5 days was a nice touch. I like that communication isn’t instantaneous at this point, and hope the creators don’t contradict this point in future episodes.

--Terms:
neurolytic enzymes Proteins in T’Pol’s anatomy that Phlox tells her in the teaser are considerably higher than from the previous month.
Dekendi III Planet where the Interspecies medical exchange is holding a conference, according to Archer’s log in the opening scene of Act 1.
neutron microscope Device that the Enterprise picks up at Dekendi III.
Feezal Phlox Phlox’s second wife, an expert in quantum optics, whom Archer and Trip meet in the opening scene of Act 1, and who helps Trip install the microscope.
Pa’nar Syndrome The Vulcan disease that T’Pol has, which affects a small subculture of Vulcan society, whose pathology Phlox tells the Vulcans in Act 1 is similar to Thymic Schlerosis. As T’Pol tells the Vulcans in Act 1, it is an incurable degradation of the synaptic pathways, which also affects the endocrine and immune systems, is transmitted through a mind meld. Mind melds can cause a disruption of neuroelectrical impulses in the mid-brain, which can lead to the early stages of the disease.
Thymic Schlerosis A non-fatal illness whose pathology is similar to Pa’nar Syndrome, and which Phlox says they’ve had very little success in treating.
reflectometer Part of the neutron microscope that collimates the neutron stream, as Feezal tells Trip in sickbay in Act 1.
Melders Name that the Vulcans give to the minority that practice mind melds, as mentioned toward the end of Act 1.
quantum filters Part of the neutron microscope that Feezal tells Trip to align when using it in the opening scene of Act 2.
Vesna Wife of Groznik that Phlox mentions in the opening scene of Act 2. Phlox asks Feezal if Vesna has forgiven Groznik.
Groznik Husband of Vesna, whom Feezal says has only apologized twice, won’t be forgiven for another two years, and has only one other wife.
Kessil One of Groznik’s wives, whom Feezal tells Phlox moved to Tessil Prime to be with her third husband, Bogga.
Teerza Prime Planet to which Kessil moved to be with her third husband, as Feezal tells Phlox in Act 2.
Bogga Kessil’s third husband.
Klaban Forlisa’s husband, whom Feezal thinks was her first.
imaging filament Part of the neutron microscope that causes a reflection that gives an unclear reading when the aperture is not stablized when Trip uses it in Act 2.
Forlisa Woman that Phlox says in the opening scene of Act 2 he once asked to be his second wife, only to find out that she already had three husbands.
Dr. Oratt Vulcan dignitary that Archer tells Phlox and T’Pol in Act 2 told him about T’Pol’s condition.
Dr. Yuris The youngest of the three Vulcan doctors in the episode, whom T’Pol tells Archer in Act 2 contacted her to meet him in the Northern City.
"The Black Cat" 1934 horror movie starring Boris Karloff and Bela Lugosi, which Trip mentions to Hoshi in Act 3 is playing in the screening room.
The Council of Physicians Vulcan ruling body that Archer points out to Oratt in Act 3 entitles anyone accused of ethical misconduct to a hearing before the ranking medical officer in the province or territory with the accusation was made.
fargan Animal that Travis describes to Phlox in the opening scene of Act 4 as "cows with humps," that like a melon-like fruit, and are used in the most popular sport on Dekendi that Travis compares to monkey-in-the-middle, as he tells Phlox in the opening scene of Act 4.

Playing doctor was always one of Trip’s favorite games
Just as ship’s medical officers in Trek have long exhibited expertise in fields far removed from general medical practice, so too have engineers been often seen working on things that are far removed from normal ship’s functions. For exmple, if Feezal is on the Enterprise, why does Trip have to be involved at all with installing the neutron microscope? Are chief engineers on submarines, for example, qualified to install CAT scanners or MRI machines in hospitals?
I’ll be Chef is really jealous now
Up until now, I got the impression that Denobulans had only one name. In Dear Doctor, Phlox addressed Dr. Lucas as such, but signed his letter "Phlox" at the end of that episode, and Cutler, with whom Phlox becames close during the first season, addressed him as "Phlox" in both Dear Doctor and later in Two Days and Two Nights. But in Act 3 of this episode, when Feezal joins Hoshi and Trip in the Mess Hall, she introduces herself to Hoshi as "Feezal Phlox."
But rubbing gel all over her in the Decon chamber is still okay, right?
The episode indicates that Vulcan society would be more tolerant of T’Pol’s condition if they found out that she did not participate in the mind meld in Fusion of her own free will, and she ends up being allowed to stay on the Enterprise because Yuris tells Oratt that that’s what happened, but in fact, T’Pol was not forced to participate in the mind meld. True, Tolaris did force her to experience it to a degree and at a depth that she did not want to, but participating in the mind meld itself was something she decided to do freely of her own will, and it doesn’t seem likely that Oratt would draw an important distinction between these two things. It is possible that since T’Pol didn’t seem to know what a mind meld was in Fusion, that she didn’t know the extent to which those who practiced it were stigmatized (during that episode she merely expressed disdain for their expressing their emotions, but not using telepathy to share them), or that the meld itself was tantamount to an illegal practice, but the episode never indicates this. Instead, it attempts to assert that T’Pol is innocent because she didn’t participate in it willingly, which is simply not true.

One thing though: I think it would’ve been better if Yuris only revealed that he was a Melder in Act 4 not only to Oratt, but to us as well.Luigi Novi

Darn! I had the same thought right before I checked the board! I was thinking that it would've been interesting if T'Pol's clandestine meeting had been with a "shadowy figure," so to speak. Then when Yuris has his outburst, it would all fall into place, so to speak.

More, geography challenges. T'Pol says her meeting with Yuris is set for "the northern part of the city." What city? The city where the conference is? Okay, what's that city called?

Also lost in the mix here is the apparent belief the Vulcans have that non-Vulcans can't receive mind-melds. Just like time travel is impossible...

The Vulcans in this, and indeed, in multiple episodes express what my girlfriend would call "willful ignorance." Meaning that they are so wrapped up in their own views, prejudices, arrogence, and other things that they don't want to listen to other views, make judgments based on their prejudices, and try to make the other party conform and agree with their views.
For example, during the hearing, the Vulcans kept trying to press the idea that T'Pol was one of the Medlers, since only the Medlers got the diesase.

Whoops.. I ment Melders... at least I didn't put Mulders...

Berman and Braga must’ve seen And the Band Played On one too many times when writing their AIDS allegory. The Vulcans even have substandard equipment to study their stigmatized diseases!
At the very end of Act 1, one of the Vulcan doctors removes some type of cartridge from the scanner containing the PADD that they handed T’Pol for a DNA sample, and inserts it into another computer in order to view the results on the viewscreen. First of all, that second module is the computer memory module that Barclay placed the Moriarty computer program into at the end of Ship in a Bottle(TNG), but with a slightly different color design, and the hole used in that episode for the Moriarty program not there. Second, why do they have to take a module out of the scanner and place it into another computer to transfer the results to the screen? Can’t they just hook up the scanner to the screen directly? The imaging chamber in the Enterprise sickbay has its own viewscreen.

Zul: My question that I didn't really understand is that obviously they find a cure for the Pe'Nar syndrome in the latter centuries as we see mind melds performed frequently.
Luigi Novi: But only a small percentage of Melders come down with this disease, as Yuris tells T’Pol in the opening scene of Act 3. (Just as not all gay people have AIDS. It’s like saying that there must be a cure for AIDS in the future if we see gay people who practice sodomy frequently, when in fact, sodomy in and of itself doesn’t cause AIDS.)

It’s possible that more is learned about mindmelds that allows Vulcans to perfect their use without the dangers seen here. I think that there’s a lot about mind melds (and perhaps Vulcan neurology in general) that they learn in the intervening century that they don’t know of here. For example, it is stated in this episode that only a small percentage of Vulcans are born with the ability to perform mindmelds, but by the TOS/TNG era, it seems most Vulcans have telepathic abilities, and that it’s an integral part of the culture. (Picard summed up Spock’s poor relationship with Sarek to Riker in Unification partI(TNG) by simply saying, "They never melded," which may suggest that mindmelding between parent and child is an important activity among Vulcans.) Perhaps the Vulcans at this point only think that a small segment of the population is born with the ability, but later discover otherwise (although it’s interesting that Archer points out to Dr. Strom in Act 2 that they should she doesn’t have mindmelding ability because they have her genetic profile). Perhaps this revolutionizes Vulcan society, and for all we know, maybe this is why Vulcans of later centuries seem to uphold the edict against emotions far more successfully than the Vulcans of the 2150’s because the mindmeld helps them to do so.

SMT: During the Interspecies Medical Exchange conference, we hear a PA announcement about an event being rescheduled for 1400 hours. First, why is the voice in English, when humans are presumably a tiny minority at the conference if they're present at all? Second, why in hours, for the same reason?
Luigi Novi: Perhaps we only hear it in English, but it’s transmitted with the u.t. for all to understand it in their own language.

SMT: While setting up the neutron microscope, Feezal instructs Trip to "insert the thick end" of an instrument into a port. It looked like that instrument was equally thick at both ends.
Luigi Novi: Yeah, and after he inserts it, she even tells him, "You can pull it out now."

SMT: If this disease affects the structure of the brain, how can its presence be determined by a scan of DNA collected from a fingertip? That is DNA we see on the screen.
Luigi Novi: The disease also affects the endocrine system and the immune system, as T’Pol states to Dr. Oratt near the end of Act 1.

SMT: First we are told the meld occurred nearly a year ago. A bit later, we're told it was over a year ago. Yes, I suppose the anniversary instant could have fallen between these two statements, but is it really likely?
Luigi Novi: I know Archer was the one who said "over" a year ago in the beginning of the hearing in Act 4, but who said "nearly"? Do you remember which scene it was, SMT?

Fusion took place around November 16, 2151, because T’Pol told Tolaris at the end of Act 1 of that episode that she’d spent seven months on the Enterprise. The last ep before this one with a date was Catwalk, which was September 18, 2152, which Archer gave in the opening shot of the teaser. Dawn had no date (I think), nor this one, but episodes are generally thought to span or take place two weeks apart to make 26 episodes (or 26 hours of the season) come out to about an Earth year. If we were to assume this the case with the this episode, then this episode takes place just under a year after Fusion. If it takes place two months or more after Catwalk, it would be more than a year.

In any case, it’s possible that Archer or the other person (T’Pol?) simply mispoke.

SMT: In the previous twenty-four years of Star Trek, was there an adjective one was less likely to apply to Vulcans than "unthinking"?
Luigi Novi: ??? Why that particular number? Trek has been around for over 36 years.

Sparrow47: So... this Pa'nar syndrome... there's only one way in which it can be contracted. And T'Pol knows what that one way is. Furthermore, she knows about the "minority" in Vulcan culture that can mind-meld. So... all the way back in "Fusion," not only did none of this come up, but T'Pol acted like she didn't know what mind-melds were.
Luigi Novi: Well, she disapproved of the expression of emotions, but it’s possible that she simply wasn’t well versed in some of the details of the Melder culture, and therefore didn’t know that mindmelds were cause for persecution.

Luigi Novi: One thing though: I think it would’ve been better if Yuris only revealed that he was a Melder in Act 4 not only to Oratt, but to us as well.

Sparrow47: Darn! I had the same thought right before I checked the board!
Luigi Novi: Good thing I mindmelded with you to prevent you from remembering that the first time you posted.

I’m an OUTCAST!!

Sparrow47: I was thinking that it would've been interesting if T'Pol's clandestine meeting had been with a "shadowy figure," so to speak. Then when Yuris has his outburst, it would all fall into place, so to speak.
Luigi Novi: Yeah, THAT would’ve been cool too!

Sparrow47: More, geography challenges. T'Pol says her meeting with Yuris is set for "the northern part of the city." What city? The city where the conference is? Okay, what's that city called?
Luigi Novi: If the city’s name was already referenced off-camera as the city where the Conference is being held, then I could understand if it’s referred to generically. When people where I live say that they’re going into "the city," everyone knows they mean New York.

What irks me is when characters use such terms for what appears to be the first reference to it.

The Vulcans find out that T'Pol has Pe'Nar syndrome by testing her DNA off of some fingerprints. If you look closely as they enter the data disks into the computers, there's a rectangular box on the right side of the table. This prop was also used as the "internal holodeck" to keep Moriarty's program running at the end of "Ship In A Bottle" (TNG).

The head Vulcan doctor was played by the same guy who played the paranoid Malcorian (the one with glasses) in "First Contact" (TNG).

They blew it by not building on the charactreization of Tpol in previous episodes especially Fusion. All along she portrayed herself as a closet emotion-seeker but was so afraid to admit she condemmed at first the Vtosh Ktur in Fusion but then slowly came around to wanting to experiment with it as she eventually does in Fusion with mind-meld.

In Fusion they should have portrayed her as someone who experimented with emotions and mind meld but instead of being attacked after havinfg gone through with having feelings of guilt and shame and pulled back experimenting with emotions and in stigma come out of the closet as it were.

they made it appear as though she had no interest in emotional experimentation and this hurts even further the melders because then it gives more ammunition to the traditionalists that the melderds are bad eand even dangerous by forcing a meld on Tpol gainst her will

Perhaps the Vulcans at this point only think that a small segment of the population is born with the ability, but later discover otherwiseLuigi Novi

My idea was that the "abberation" being spoken of isn't an abberation at all, but an evolutionary breakthrough ala "Transfigurations" which would make it inevitable that it would filter into the rest of the Vulcan populace. This might also explain why Romulans can't do mind-melds (although we've never heard that they can't, but there seems to have been plenty of opportunity for them to do so).

Well, she disapproved of the expression of emotions, but it’s possible that she simply wasn’t well versed in some of the details of the Melder culture, and therefore didn’t know that mindmelds were cause for persecution.Luigi Novi

I also just realized that she could have researched the disease between that "Fusion" and "Stigma." So, consider the nit erased.

Good thing I mindmelded with you to prevent you from remembering that the first time you posted. Luigi Novi

I'm just glad you had the courtesy to wear the little rubber pads on your fingertips...

If the city’s name was already referenced off-camera as the city where the Conference is being held, then I could understand if it’s referred to generically.Luigi Novi

True, but it still wouldn't be that hard to drop in some dialouge into episodes to give the viewers the info they lack.

Okay, here's something else. Trip says that he couldn't figure out the instructions for putting the microscope together because they were in Denobulan. Denobulan? Why were the instructions sent in Denobulan? Alternatively, why couldn't he get a translation? Given that Denobulans and humans seem to be well-accquainted, this doesn't make sense.

MikeRam: The head Vulcan doctor was played by the same guy who played the paranoid Malcorian (the one with glasses) in "First Contact" (TNG).
Luigi Novi: And Lojal in The Forsaken(DS9), and the eyepatch-wearing Bard in False Profits(VOY).

Sparrow47: This might also explain why Romulans can't do mind-melds (although we've never heard that they can't, but there seems to have been plenty of opportunity for them to do so).
Luigi Novi: Well, in addition to Sela’s telepathic lieutenant in the non-canon Peter David novel Imzadi II, the Reman Viceroy in ST Nemesis had telepathic abilities, and that appeared to be a mindmeld that he performed with Shinzon.

Sparrow47: Why were the instructions sent in Denobulan? Alternatively, why couldn't he get a translation? Given that Denobulans and humans seem to be well-accquainted, this doesn't make sense.
Luigi Novi: What makes even less sense is that Feezal is showing Trip how to install and use the microscope instead of Phlox.

I really tried to like this story, but I kept trying to correlate the action with modern-day attitudes toward AIDS, and I got annoyed when I didn't think that certain things fit. And in the end, the only thing I could think was, I have never seen Vulcans act so illogically. Whoever said humans never met the Romulans in the 22nd century.

Various nits and notes (mostly the latter):

-- It was refreshing to see a talker story for once instead of an action one. I wouldn't mind seeing more stories like this one.

-- Did T'Pol look sickly? It seemed to me that she did in most scenes. I don't think she was supposed to; maybe it's just that her makeup was different.

-- It would have smoothed out the story if there had been a name for the minority.

-- Allegory or not, I don't understand the purpose of giving the AIDS hotline number. I imagine it made less sense to people who didn't know about the allegory already.

-- When Feezal first appeared, and I noticed how she acted toward Trip, I correctly guessed the entire flow of the B plot. Too predictable. But, considering this story's true subject, it was a nice touch that the subplot was a look at different attitudes toward sex.

-- There were nice performances by the regular cast and the guest stars. That needed to be noted. I'm glad all the regulars got at least a couple lines (even Travis, who had his lines interrupted).

-- I can't recall one scene that was set on the bridge. That must be a rarity in Trek. But I like it. It's a sign that stories are being approached differently.

Sooooo, telepathy is a small genetic minority in Vulcan society, the practice of which is seen as unnatural? What about that telepathic weapon that the Vulcans used thousands of years ago as we learned in Gambit (NextGen), what about the apparently ancient Vulcan ceremonies that use telepathy? Bonding with a future mate (Amok Time); the purging of emotions (Star Trek: The Motion Picture); passing on the Katra & restoring the Katra (Star Trek III: The Search For Spock).

And furthermore, what about the Vulcan philosophy of Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations?

It's indicated that a genetic scan can show if someone is a Melder or not, so how did Dr. Yuris avoid having his genetic structure scanned?

The name Feezal Phlox makes even less sense when one considers that she has more than one husband.

Soooo, a doctor can recall a Vulcan from a ship, without telling the High Council? IIRC it was stated that the High Council wouldn't be notified until T'Pol was back at Vulcan.

While I liked the B story I did wonder why they put it in this episode. The A story is an allegory about a disease that can be passed on by people having lots of sex with a lot of other people and the B story is a light, humorous story involving people from a polygamous culture and the wife's attempting to seduce Trip. Can anyone say mixed message? I think you can.

However what was really missing from the B story was Ensign Cutler. She is interested in Phlox, she knows he has other wives. It really would have been interesting if Cutler & Feezal had met and talked about what she would be getting into.

Luigi - I’ll be Chef
Well since they haven't shown his face yet, I'd say you have a good chance at it. Go on. Try out for the part. ;-)

the Reman Viceroy in ST Nemesis had telepathic abilities, and that appeared to be a mindmeld that he performed with Shinzon.Luigi Novi

Ohhhhhhhh, right. Never mind, then.

What makes even less sense is that Feezal is showing Trip how to install and use the microscope instead of Phlox.Luigi Novi

I didn't have any problem with that point. For all we know, she wasn't going to be brought aboard until Phlox said she was his wife, at which point Archer said, "Well, why don't you bring her aboard?" Or something like that.

It would have smoothed out the story if there had been a name for the minority.Trike

You know, I was thinking the same thing. I really should try and remember these nits.

Allegory or not, I don't understand the purpose of giving the AIDS hotline number. I imagine it made less sense to people who didn't know about the allegory already.Trike

It was actually part of a larger scheme that Viacom was doing. All of the TV shows under Viacom's control are doing HIV/AIDS related storylines this month. This mostly includes a bunch of crappy UPN sitcoms, but they also have "Enterprise" and "Frasier," which raises the profile somewhat.

It's indicated that a genetic scan can show if someone is a Melder or not, so how did Dr. Yuris avoid having his genetic structure scanned?KAM

Vulcan 1: Hey, do you want to have your genetic structure scanned?
Yuirs: Uh... no thanks.
Vulcan 1: Suit yourself.

Darn - I should have posted sooner. Most of my comments are already taken. Like most Trek allegories, this one leaves very little ambiguity about the message: prejudice is illogical. That said, the episode worked for me overall. I just hope that this "deconstructing Vulcans" kick that TPTB are on is actually going somewhere, and they're not just doing it to mess with our minds.
On another subject, fairly early in the episode, Archer calls Phlox and T'Pol into his ready room and chews Phlox out for lying to the Vulcans about why he needed information on Pa'Nar syndrome. Archer then passes on the message that Phlox is no longer welcome at the Interspecies Medical Exchange conference. So, let me get this straight. Phlox offends a couple of members of the Vulcan delegation, and now the entire organization has barred him from attending the meeting? Do the Vulcans really have that much influence in the IME? And are they really so willing to use it in such a heavy-handed, capricious and vindictive manner? And no one else in the IME objected? Somehow, I don't quite buy that.
As for the B-plot, for a change, I thought that it actually worked pretty well with the main story. Like the A-plot, it dealt (albeit in a humorous manner) with a clash of values between humans and an alien society. While for the most part, humans regard marriage as an exclusive arrangement between two people, Denobulans do not. Actually, in human terms, this concept is not polygamy, but is referred to as polyamory. Essentially, polyamory advocates that marriage should not be an exclusive arrangement between two people, but rather that each person in the relationship be allowed to form other similar relationships with other people. This is sometimes called "group marriage" or "intimate circles". (Apart from the ethical and moral questions raised, I seriously doubt whether polyamory is a workable alternative to monogamy in human relationships - I just don't think that most people are emotionally set up to deal with initimate relationships that way. However, I have met several people who advocate it). Considering how obviously the Deobulans are established to be polyamorous, I have to wonder whether the writers had that specifically in mind.

Trike: It would have smoothed out the story if there had been a name for the minority.
Luigi Novi: They were referred to as "Melders," albeit not often. The phrase "the minority" was used more often, for some reason.

Trike: Allegory or not, I don't understand the purpose of giving the AIDS hotline number. I imagine it made less sense to people who didn't know about the allegory already.
Luigi Novi: Posting important and educational information like that never needs justification.

KAM: Sooooo, telepathy is a small genetic minority in Vulcan society, the practice of which is seen as unnatural? What about that telepathic weapon that the Vulcans used thousands of years ago as we learned in Gambit (NextGen), what about the apparently ancient Vulcan ceremonies that use telepathy? Bonding with a future mate (Amok Time); the purging of emotions (Star Trek: The Motion Picture); passing on the Katra & restoring the Katra (Star Trek III: The Search For Spock).
Luigi Novi: Good point about the Stone of Gol, but I’m not so sure about the TOS-era customs. Did they ever say they were older than a century? And T’Lar said that the fal-tor-pan was mostly a legend.

KAM: And furthermore, what about the Vulcan philosophy of Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations?
Luigi Novi: They must’ve come up with that after the 2150’s.

Sparrow47: I didn't have any problem with that point. For all we know, she wasn't going to be brought aboard until Phlox said she was his wife, at which point Archer said, "Well, why don't you bring her aboard?" Or something like that.
Luigi Novi: ??? I’m not sure I follow. How does that pertain to her showing Trip how to install and use the microscope instead of Phlox?

Maquis Lawyer: Do the Vulcans really have that much influence in the IME?
Luigi Novi: They might if they’re the ones who created and organize it.

Maquis Lawyer: And are they really so willing to use it in such a heavy-handed, capricious and vindictive manner? And no one else in the IME objected?
Luigi Novi: Who’s to say anyone else there knows? For all we know, the Vulcans were the only ones aside from Feezal that Phlox interacted with before they banned him.

Maquis Lawyer: I just don't think that most people are emotionally set up to deal with initimate relationships that way. However, I have met several people who advocate it). Considering how obviously the Deobulans are established to be polyamorous, I have to wonder whether the writers had that specifically in mind.
Luigi Novi: Well, since B & B wrote the episode, does that mean Jeri Ryan is up for being shared????

SMT: In the previous twenty-four years of Star Trek, was there an adjective one was less likely to apply to Vulcans than "unthinking"?

Luigi Novi: ??? Why that particular number? Trek has been around for over 36 years.

SMT: Sorry, I should have said "seasons". Three of Star Trek; seven of TNG; seven of DS9; seven of VOY.

Oops, and one of Enterprise, though first-season episodes contributed to the wrenching of Vulcans out of their established traits of intelligence and logic.

Second-day thoughts:

My biggest problem with the story was how the Vulcan doctors were portrayed. Even when people are being pigheaded, they usually have a decent-sounding rationale for being that way. The story, in my opinion, would have been much better if we had heard the doctors actually giving reasons for why they had little interest in treating Pa'nar syndrome.

For example, lines such as these:

"There is no need for mind-melding in Vulcan society today. It harkens to a time when we were undisciplined and did not have control over our emotions. Because mind melds expose one Vulcan to another's raw thoughts, the procedure usually makes it more difficult for both Vulcans involved to control their emotions."

"The most common way for Pa'nar syndrome to be spread occurs when people deliberately risk exporsure to it. And to do so is highly illogical."

Lines such as these would have drawn a parallel to some people's attitude today toward AIDS, and made the story more relevant. It's hard to examine an issue when you are unable to present two sides decently.

It also would have added some justification to the doctors' attitude other than blatant pigheadedness, which I found difficult to accept. Remember what Janeway said on Voyager, about how the power of logic is that it can be used to justify anything, and that that was also its flaw.

Some of that type of logic was needed here.

Wasn't that pretty much what they said (at least about mind melders)? That their sharing of emotions was undermining the basis of Vulcan society? So, at least with respect to mind melders they may be "intolerant and bigoted" (Archer) but they are not "prejudiced" (T'Pol).

Maquis Lawyer: prejudice is illogical
:: By definition!

(More word stuff): Hemolytic cell count, radiolytic isotopes, and now neurolytic enzymes. I’ll always remember where I was at the birth of the new buzzword. And it comes not a minute too soon, what with "decompile" having gone the way of the dodo and "cascade" becoming scarcer and scarcer. At least we’ll always have "parameters" and "reinitialize." And I’ll give the writers grudging credit for finally using "volatile" correctly. (The "explosive" sense of the word only applies to people and situations, as here, and not to substances.)

A post from trektoday.com

Quote:
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Posted by The Wormhole:

But there treatment of humans also contradicts this statement [of IDIC].


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Yep, and that 'treatment of Humans' continued into the 23rd century as well. Look at the treatment Kirk and McCoy originally received from T'Pau; and how Spock was treated by T'Pau when he actually managed to speak while in the midst of his 'Blood Fever'.

Again, I must have missed the TOS episodes that portrayed Vulcans as such an elightened race. Sure, they always CLAIMED to be that way, but even in TOS there were chinks shown in the Vulcan moral armor as it were.

Regarding post from KAM:
"It's indicated that a genetic scan can show if someone is a Melder or not, so how did Dr. Yuris avoid having his genetic structure scanned?:

I believe that the scan showed that T'Pol had the disease, and from that it was assumed she was a Melder. Dr. Yuris didn't have the disease.

"Sooooo, telepathy is a small genetic minority in Vulcan society, the practice of which is seen as unnatural? What about..." "...Bonding with a future mate..." "...passing on the Katra...".

I also noticed from this episode and Fusion the lack of Melding in Vulcan tradition. It was apparent to me from watching Spock and others that Melding was an established tradition. Granted, a tradition could get established in one generation, but don't forget that Vulcans live over a hundred years. In other words, Spocks grand-father, the father of Sarek could be alive.
I can imagine a scene b/w Spock, Sarek, and grand-dad: "Back in my day Melding was only done in closets and under the bleachers. Now it's out in the open for all the see, just as we predicted it would be if the Melders got their way.

The main purpose of a mind meld never has been to share emotions. To me, that is a new premise. Previously, the purpose of melds had been for other reasons, usually to gain knowledge.

So, if sharing emotions is the main reason 22nd century Vulcans mind-meld, then I don't think that fact was presented well. And lines about how such-and-such undermines society are so heavy-handed that all they usually do is impede understanding. This story had too much writing like that.

Luigi Novi (to Sparrow47): ??? I’m not sure I follow. How does that pertain to her showing Trip how to install and use the microscope instead of Phlox?

Luigi, I think Sparrow is misreading you. You’re saying ". . . her showing Trip how to install and use the microscope instead of [her showing] Phlox," but Sparrow's reading ". . . her showing Trip how to install and use the microscope instead of Phlox [showing Trip]."

KAM: The name Feezal Phlox makes even less sense when one considers that she has more than one husband.

Two good reasons for varying her name to fit the situation: Phlox's associates will know she's there with him (if they can't figure it out on sight); and she can screen incoming calls: "Feezal Phlox" means his friend calling, "Feezal Jones" means husband no. 2's friend calling, and just plain "Feezal" means it's one of her friends calling. Hey, I do it all the time.

I agree that they could've tried to make the Vulcan doctors' position seem more reasonable. As written, much of their arguments during the hearing were purely rhetorical. Oratt said "we have laws, and cannot ignore them," totally ignoring the question of the wisdom of those laws, and Strom's statement to T'Pol, "Unfortunately, you don't know what you're talking about," was BLATANTLY self-serving. Something along the lines of what Trike suggested would've been better.

Anonymous: I believe that the scan showed that T'Pol had the disease, and from that it was assumed she was a Melder. Dr. Yuris didn't have the disease.
Luigi Novi: They already knew she had the disease. Because Melders were rare, and their talent was considered a genetec abnormality (as Strom put it during the hearing), what Archer said to them is that since they had her genetic profile, they should be able to tell that she's not a Melder.

Anonymous: Spocks grand-father, the father of Sarek could be alive.
Luigi Novi: He has to be. Sarek will be born only 13 years after this season of Enterprise.

Sooooo, telepathy is a small genetic minority in Vulcan society, the practice of which is seen as unnatural? What about that telepathic weapon that the Vulcans used thousands of years ago as we learned in Gambit (NextGen), what about the apparently ancient Vulcan ceremonies that use telepathy? Bonding with a future mate (Amok Time); the purging of emotions (Star Trek: The Motion Picture); passing on the Katra & restoring the Katra (Star Trek III: The Search For Spock). - KAM

Luigi already addressed some of these points...

The Stone of Gol could also be considered a legend. After all, wasn't it the "gods" who supposedly destroyed the Stone?

And I just assumed that this minority had an innate ability to initiate melds... meaning other Vulcans aren't necessarily incapable of initiating melds, they just have to learn how to do it. Much like some people have an innate talent for playing an instrument, while others struggle to learn.

Obviously, by the time of TOS, the stigma associated with mindmelds is lifted and the skills are taught... that or Spock, Sarek, Sybok, Tuvok, T'Pau, and seemingly every other Vulcan we've met are members of this minority.

I’m not sure I follow. How does that pertain to her showing Trip how to install and use the microscope instead of Phlox?Luigi Novi
Luigi, I think Sparrow is misreading you. You’re saying ". . . her showing Trip how to install and use the microscope instead of [her showing] Phlox," but Sparrow's reading ". . . her showing Trip how to install and use the microscope instead of Phlox [showing Trip]."TJFleming

Well, close. First of all, I missed what Feezal actually does, if she's a doctor or an engineer or something like that. But my point was that I don't think that her showing Trip is neccesarily a nit. Here's why. Think back to how the microscope got to Enterprise (note: it's possible I'm missing something vital info here, so don't hesitate to point it out! ) Someone had to offer it to the ship, probably whomever Feezal works for. Now, initially, this offer might have said "we can give you this microscope for your sick bay" and Archer said, "Okay, Trip can install it." Then it turned out that Feezal would be the contact person for this, and Archer extended things to say, "well, she can come aboard and help Trip," knowing that even though she wasn't strictly nessecary, it would be a nice thing to do. Does this make sense?

Something else I just thought of. Phlox asks Trip if his wife offered to five the engineer a "rose petal bath." Hmmmmm... First of all, either Feezal picked this up from Earth somehow, or Denobulans have something called "a rose" (but does it smell as sweet)? In either case, where would she come up with these rose petals, and how would you use them in a bath? You'd need a lot of rose petals to fill a bathtub. There's obviously something more to this ritual, but perhaps I should leave it alone...

You'd need a lot of rose petals to fill a bathtub. - Sparrow

For more on rose petal baths, see American Beauty.

Seriously, though, I think you might be taking the term "rose petal bath" too literally. Phlox could have been talking about a bath mixed with a rose petal extract, rather than one with actual petals. Though I'm now looking at my ex-girlfriend's cucumber/melon bath in a whole new light.

I thought it was awfully heavy-handed.

Does anybody want to compare this with the message episodes of other series, such as "A Taste of Armageddon?" There were arguements both for and against the Vietnam War.

Maybe Feezal would have offered the rose-petal bath "when you visit Denobula". And of course it was a translation.

And I hope we see Denobula and the other wives.

Why didn't it occur to Trip that Phlox might have a different attitude about what Feezal is doing? Why didn't he tell Feezal about human customs? Why didn't he check a reference book on Denobulan customs? He could have asked Hoshi; she only gets about two lines and isn't even seen.

I wish we had seen Cutler.

Phlox and Feezal talk disparagingly of "human morality"; um, I wonder what they think of human moral attitudes toward rape, genocide, etc.? They have to have some ideas in common, or else Phlox wouldn't be trusted on board a starship.

I like the idea that it was a practical joke between Phlox and Feezal; what we see is consistent with that.

A few reflections on the points raised thus far:

- Dr Oratt was described as a high-ranking member of the Vulcan medical community. He is representing the Vulcans at an interspecies medical conference, and therefore is likely a powerful individual. Doctors have always wielded a great deal of power in this franchise, including the means to remove a Captain from command. Dr Oratt would probably have the authority to remove T'Pol from duty and to order her return to Vulcan.

- We've seen Vulcans disobey orders, lie, break promises, and show bigotry. I'm assuming Vulcans undergo some kind of 'awakening of logic' in the time between Enterprise and TOS, so that IDIC is not a bunch of BS, as it appears to be now.

- Phlox uses some rather cheesy BS himself when requesting research on Pa'Nar Syndrome from the Vulcans. He states that his request is to further research into a Denobulan disease that is similar to Pa'Nar Syndrome. Do Denobulans have telepathic abilities? If his goal was to protect T'Pol's condition, why tell a lie that could be unravelled if the Vulcans chose to contact his colleage and pursue the matter after the conference? He would have been much better off claiming that one of the exiled Vulcans they encountered was exhibiting symptoms of the syndrome, and that he was researching Pa'Nar in his own time. The response would not have been favorable, but it would have protected T'Pol.

- Tucker probably would have been the best person to install the new scanner in sickbay. As Chief Engineer, he would be responsible for making sure this new technology was integrated in the ship's systems with minimal problems. Unfortunately, the bulk of his time in sickbay was spent learning to fine-tune and use the scanner. This training was best done with the medical staff.

- Melinda Page Hamilton did an outstanding job playing Feezal! I loved the Denobulan interaction, from the "air-kisses" to the chit-chat in sickbay. Her mannerisms were a great mirror of Phlox. They managed to communicate love for each other, despite the focus on her pursuit of Tucker.

- The orbital shots of Enterprise were excellent. Showing the ship from below, orbiting topside toward the planet, was a first. A reflection of the way the space shuttle orbits the Earth.

- Finally, the short message to the crew of the Columbia was touching and appropriate. Star Trek owes much to the courage of the astronauts and cosmonauts, as reflected in the title graphics. Godspeed to the Columbia crew, and thank you.

Darth Sarcasm:The Stone of Gol could also be considered a legend. After all, wasn't it the "gods" who supposedly destroyed the Stone?
Luigi Novi: True. Perhaps only those adept at using their telepathic abilities back then were the ones using the Stone, and when it was done away with during the Time of Awakening, perhaps anyone with developed telepathic abilities was associated with those who used the Stone, and maybe that’s where the stigma originated.

Sparrow47: First of all, either Feezal picked this up from Earth somehow, or Denobulans have something called "a rose" (but does it smell as sweet)?
Luigi Novi: We’ve seen alien planets with animals identical to terrier dogs, Doberman pinchers, emus, monkeys and griffon vultures, not to mention identical looking trees, grass, bushes, etc. At this point, why not a rose?

Sparrow47: You'd need a lot of rose petals to fill a bathtub.
Luigi Novi: Who says they have to fill it? They simply be placed on the surface of the water.

Obi-Juan: Dr Oratt would probably have the authority to remove T'Pol from duty and to order her return to Vulcan.
Luigi Novi: Usually the ranking medical officer with the power to remove someone from duty is part of the same organization or command structure as the officer in question. It’s possible Oratt is part the Vulcan Science Ministry or some an equivalent Medical organization, rather than the Vulcan Space Program, and therefore, doesn’t have that power. I mean, does the U.S. Surgeon General or the President’s Secretary of Health and Human Services, or the head of the AMA have the power to remove the CMO of a submarine, or for that matter, an American doctor working on another country’s submarine?

Hello, Doesn't this episode negate the whole idea of saving the katra? The hall of ancient thought? Hmmm Ancient now means less than 100 years, so all the "Vulcan mysticism" is actually new age hooey?? :~} " All that he was, all that he still could be, is lost" So said Sarek, but according to last night's episode, so what? Vulcans have been dying for thousands of years without their Katras being preserved, as melding is necessary to save one's katra.

Slugbug, it's not a contradiction. Rememer that The old Vulcan said "what you seek has not been done since ages past, and is than only legend." meaning that for a long time such things were not done.

As for the genetic abnormality thing; since most Vulcans have a direct interest in not developing their power to mindmeld perhaps only those with strong telepathic abilitys would ever try it (since it would be so easy for them) Other vulcans would never want to try it and those who felt an inclination to try it would supress that feeling and act like it never existed, because of the stigma.

Actually Brian your quote refers to the reintergration of Spock's katra with his body. THAT has not been done since ages past. Placing the katra in the hall was normal.

TJFleming - "Feezal Phlox" means his friend calling, "Feezal Jones" means husband no. 2's friend calling, and just plain "Feezal" means it's one of her friends calling. Hey, I do it all the time.
You call yourself, Feezal Phlox, Feezal Jones, or just plain Feezal???

Archer says "We wiped out bigotry over a hundred years ago!". Hmmm, Well, quite a few humans seemed to have problems with Spock in the early episodes of Star Trek. That might be considered bigotry.

Not looking for a cure for Pa'nar syndrome, just because they don't like the people who usually get it is illogical because by studying how a disease works you can learn more about how the body works. You can also make a discovery about other types of conditions. So they are passing up learning knowledge because they don't like "those kind of people".

Also what about people who get Pa'nar Syndrome because they were forced into mind melds? "Gee, sorry about that. We won't be able to do anything for you until those Melders up and die. Think you can live long enough for that to happen?"

If they can accept this kind of prejudice as okay, how long until someone says, "The problem with the Melders is perfectly logical. We just kill everyone with that genetic aberration and the problem goes away."?

Phlox seemed to be making fun of Trip once he discovered that Trip was uncomfortable. This from an alien who is supposed to know about human psychology. He should have known that Trip wouldn't like the idea of multiple partners, and he should have been more sensitive towards Trip.

Also, I had a thought about Melding and Vulcan tradition...
Perhaps it has been, in the past, tradition to Meld, put the tradition has received a stigma only in the past 50 or so years. In other words, the tradition changed a few times: Melding is 'in' one decade, melding is 'out' the next decade, then melding is back 'in' again.

Seriously, though, I think you might be taking the term "rose petal bath" too literally. Phlox could have been talking about a bath mixed with a rose petal extract, rather than one with actual petals.Darth Sarcasm
Who says they have to fill it? They simply be placed on the surface of the water.Luigi Novi

What? Taking things too literally? That never happns here at Nitcentral! Okay, those are both good points, so I'll shut up.

Maquis Lawyer: Do the Vulcans really have that much influence in the IME?
Luigi Novi: They might if they’re the ones who created and organize it.

Now that Luigi mentions it, I think the Vulcans did create the IME. Didn't Phlox say they did, early in "Broken Bow" when Archer is in Sickbay with him as he unloads all his animals?

Oratt: Mind melds are practiced by a subculture - Vulcans who have elected to conduct themselves in an unacceptable manner.
T'Pol: They haven't elected to do anything. They're born with this ability.

As far as I could determine, the Vulcans are not hostile toward people who have the ability to meld, only those who use the ability (and those who participate with them)...hence Oratt's word "practiced." So T'Pol's answer doesn't make sense...except as some sort of political correctness.

Possibly it would have been more dramatic, and less predictable, if Yuris wasn't one of the "minority", but a "majority" Vulcan who believed this prejudice was wrong on the part of his peers.

It bothers me that Viacom told the producers they needed to do something about this subject, rather than springing from creative/entertainment reasons. Maybe that kind of thing happens more than we know, though.

Once again, the episode is all about Archer, T'Pol and Trip. How surprising. As I recall, Travis, Hoshi and Malcolm had one (token) scene each.

Sparrow47: You'd need a lot of rose petals to fill a bathtub.
Luigi Novi: Who says they have to fill it? They simply be placed on the surface of the water.

Water? In a bathtub? Man, Luigi, you've got some sick imagination.

Gotta admire the way these Vulcans have done away with all the red tape in government!
More silly sense of scale: When Archer tells Oratt at the end of Act 3 that he doesn’t have the right to recall T’Pol, Oratt says he’s not dismissing her, but merely returning her to Vulcan, where the High Command will decide if she is fit for duty." He should’ve said the Science Directorate, which The Seventh established is the organization that T’Pol works for, not the High Command. Again, this is like Congress or the Supreme Court deciding if an officer in the Navy accused of misconduct should remain at his post, when a hearing or court martial by the Judge Advocate General’s office would do so.

Some additional thoughts regarding Keith’s mention of childhood mate bonding and the Kolinahr: Is it possible that those rituals were around prior to the incorporation of telepathy into Vulcan mainstream society, and that telepathy was incorporated into those rituals within the century following this series? Moreover, is there anything in ST TMP that explicitly states that the Kolinahr even involves telepathy? During that scene, the female Vulcan Master is about to give Spock the symbol of pure Vulcan logic when he looks down and puts up his hand to block her from doing so. She then senses that something’s wrong, and tells him to give his thoughts to her. She then melds with him. This would indicate she was not already melded with him, and that had he completed the ceremony, she might not have done so at all. If they were already melded, she wouldn’t have put her hand to his face when he began to appear troubled.
---In any case, I think it’s important to note that cultural mores don’t always follow a linear progression. They often fade away and are revived in cyclical patterns. It’s also important to keep in mind that the people of a given planet do not necessarily belong to one culture. There are human entire cultures, empires and civilizations in our own history that have suffered extinction, but whose inventions and mores sometimes spread to outlying cultures and survive the original source’s extinction, sometimes evolving in the process.

Regarding the Vulcan notion that mind melds are unnatural (though I’m having trouble finding where in the episode the Vulcans used that term), I would add this question: Isn’t the Vulcan suppression of all emotion unnatural? It’s not like they were born that way. And if mind melds are an ability that Vulcans are born with (and not some result of drugs or genetic engineering), then mind melds are perfectly natural! The Vulcans, therefore, have it backwards! (Then again, bigotry is characterized by paralogia and hypocrisy, so this is more of a nit than a note.)

Obi-Juan: Phlox states that his request is to further research into a Denobulan disease that is similar to Pa'Nar Syndrome. Do Denobulans have telepathic abilities? If his goal was to protect T'Pol's condition, why tell a lie that could be unraveled if the Vulcans chose to contact his colleague and pursue the matter after the conference? He would have been much better off claiming that one of the exiled Vulcans they encountered was exhibiting symptoms of the syndrome, and that he was researching Pa'Nar in his own time. The response would not have been favorable, but it would have protected T'Pol.
Luigi Novi: For one thing, I think the response would’ve been more than simply "not favorable" had Phlox said it was one of the Melders from Fusion; I think the Vulcans would’ve flat-out refused to help him period, for the same reason they refused to give information to help T’Pol in the episode. If they didn’t want to help T’Pol because they thought she was a Melder, why would they help a self-proclaimed Melder from that ship? Second, Denobulans may or may not have telepathic abilities, but Phlox didn’t say the two diseases had the same cause or were transmitted the same, only that they had the same pathology. That is, they are both characterized by a degradation of the synaptic pathways, and the endocrine and/or immune systems. Lastly, I would also point out that the Vulcans could not have easily contacted Phlox’s colleague, for the simple reason that Phlox never named his colleague.

Dragon: Now that Luigi mentions it, I think the Vulcans did create the IME. Didn't Phlox say they did, early in "Broken Bow" when Archer is in Sickbay with him as he unloads all his animals?
Luigi Novi: Yes. Phlox said they "initiated" it. Thanks, Dragon.

Nove: It bothers me that Viacom told the producers they needed to do something about this subject, rather than springing from creative/entertainment reasons.
Luigi Novi: A good point that I generally agree with, but then again, this episode was better than a lot of the other clunkers this season, IMO. It would’ve been one of the best of the series so far if only the Vulcans had been written a little less cartoonishly.

And btw, nice name, dude.

Blue Berry: Water? In a bathtub? Man, Luigi, you've got some sick imagination.
Luigi Novi: Why, what do you have in yours, William? Apple sauce and WD-40?

Luigi Novi: If they didn’t want to help T’Pol because they thought she was a Melder, why would they help a self-proclaimed Melder from that ship?

True, Phlox was going out on a limb requesting this research at all. I'm assuming that, at this point, Phlox understood the nature of the stigma, and the ramifications to T'Pol if it were discovered that she was afflicted. Phlox' first duty was to protect T'Pol, even if it meant that he could not obtain the Vulcan research. The liklihood that the Vulcans would be receptive to dealing with a renegage Melder was remote at best. But I would stand by my opinion that introducing another Vulcan would have done more to cover T'Pol's condition.

Luigi- Second, Denobulans may or may not have telepathic abilities, but Phlox didn’t say the two diseases had the same cause or were transmitted the same, only that they had the same pathology. That is, they are both characterized by a degradation of the synaptic pathways, and the endocrine and/or immune systems.

Very true, hadn't considered that. My medical knowledge can be measured in a teaspoon. Good catch!

Luigi- Lastly, I would also point out that the Vulcans could not have easily contacted Phlox’s colleague, for the simple reason that Phlox never named his colleague.

But they could have asked for the name. The best lies incorporate as much of the truth as possible, are impossible to refute, and are within the control of the liar. Phlox loses control of his lie by bringing a "colleague" into it. What would Phlox have done if Dr. Oratt had said, "Very well, we will give you our data. In return, we would like to contact your colleague and request his data, so that we can further our research. As there is now the possibility that our research can save Denobulan lives, we are willing to assist you. Together we may find a cure."? After learning that Phlox was feeding them BS, the Vulcans would surely have launched an investigation. Had Phlox told Oratt that he was researching the disease for one of the exiled group, it would have had an element of truth (Phlox was in contact with those Vulcans), it would have been impossible to refute (good luck getting in touch with that bunch), and it would have been under Phlox' control. And it would have deflected their suspicion that T'Pol was in need of the treatment.

Luigi,

My bathtub has beautiful naked women. Then I wake up.

Richie, this is up to 108k