• The Breach Part 2 September 28 - 7:21 pm

think Trevix is related to Neelix?

maybe tuvix?

...and in one shining moment, the creators of "Enterprise" re-discovered how to put together a solid hour of television. Let's get down to it:

Three things I liked:

3) Picking up a slight character touch! Travis' rock-climbing skills have only been mentioned once before, in "Two Days and Two Nights," but fortunately, the creators remembered this touch and had Travis leading the pack. Kudos!
2) "If you don't get moving in three seconds, I'm going to take my phase pistol, and shoot you in the ass!" 'Nuff said!
1) Phlox keeps Tribbles... and feeds them to his other animals! I love that! I just love it!

Three things I didn't like:
3) Did the whole bit with the patrol ship chasing them at the end seem kind of pointless to anyone else?
2) Sooooo... Archer said that the planet they were visiting (can't remember name) was a haven for diversity... How, exactly could such a xenophobic group come to power? I didn't hear anything about there being a native species to the planet.
1) Didn't the black box that Phlox extracted the Tribble from have something nasty in it at one point? I seem to remember it shaking and perhaps snarling once.

More notes:

At a couple of points in this episode, Archer just went nuts and started yelling. It was nice.

I guess I don't get how studying the rocks in that planet was going to help the scientists figure out the seismic workings on Denobula. But that's just me.

I know it's a cute moment when the Denobulans scale the wall with ease, but really... where were they sticking their hands and feet?

The story with Phlox and the Aurturan (sp... and was his name Hudax? Did we ever get his name?) was very well-done, with some lovely arguments from either side. I was impressed!

All in all, a lovely episode. Grade: A.

Next week: be afraid... be very afraid...
(side note: "Cogenitor" is being billed as yet another "event." Why have TPTB decided to use "event" as a synonym for "episode"?

OVERALL OPINION: Very good episode.

NEW DENOBULUAN TALENT: Spiderman-like climbing ability.

SOMETHING BORROWED: Shades of Voyager's "Jetrel" and "Nothing Human" can be seen as well as the Worf subplot from TNG's "The Enemy". I could think of worse episodes to borrow from.

CONTINUITY NODS OF THE WEEK: Phlox feeds live Tribbles to his animals. Mayweather's climbing ablities from "Two Days and Two Nights".

PHLOX ROCKS!: Phlox is such a great character. John Billingsley is always able to do amazing things with the character. He can definitely carry an episode better than Mayweather.

THE DENOBULANS' ROCKS: The Denobulans claim that they'll need help to get their samples out. How were they planning to get them out later? And how did all of that equipment get down there? That tunnel that Trip and Reed were crawling through near the end was tighter than T'Pol's uniform.

THE BOY WHO CRIED ENTERPRISE EVENT: You know, if UPN keeps billing every single episode as an event, what are they going to do when something important really DOES happen? Maybe no one will notice.

TUE

The Denobulans claim that they'll need help to get their samples out. How were they planning to get them out later? And how did all of that equipment get down there? That tunnel that Trip and Reed were crawling through near the end was tighter than T'Pol's uniform.TUE

Well, I dunno about all the equipment, but I imagine they were thinking they'd have a much more lesiurely time getting out of the caves than they did, thus they could make multiple trips.

My question is: why were they hiding all of those rock samples? Why not have them all together?

Once more into the breach -- "to explore strange new caves........" Actually, this time the cave actually resembled some I've been in.

I'm a little surprised at the positive reaction by some of the posters. I'm usually on the upside or at least neutral on most episodes, but most of the time during this one I could only think "Geez, can this show get any more boring?" I'm glad someone liked it.

Anyone remember the MiSTed move "The Lost Continent"?

I missed Two Days and Two Nights, so I didn't know about Travis' climbing abilities. My question is, if he grew up as a boomer, where did he learn those skills?

Also, did it look like the Antaran's (?) facial appliance wasn't put on well?

Uh oh. I get to break up the love-fest for this episode. I admit, it wasn't as bad or derivative as a lot of others this season, but it didn't do too much for me. I just didn't think there was a lot of story here. That's especially true when we had sequence after sequence of rock-climbing with no story progression. And the allegory on race relations, despite John Billingsley's excellent performance, was rather thin.

Nits and notes:

-- I have a sense of deja vu with this nit: Why wouldn't the transport ship have its own doctor? Why would Phlox be the only one available to treat all the wounded from another ship?

-- When Malcolm fell and started sliding down the rock-face with Trip and Travis in tow, I just started laughing. I thought the sequence was very funny. Was it supposed to be serious? Was there supposed to be a sense of danger?

-- Trip tells the Denobulans he spent two days trying to find them, which means he disobeyed Archer's order to turn around after a day and a half.

-- I thought the Denobulans' reason for not wanting to leave the planet -- because by the time their reseach was done, there would be another shift in power -- was very practical.

-- Considering how far underground Trip and everybody was, wouldn't the exchange of weapon's fire have to be extraordinarily strong (almost nuclear) to be noticed down there? I would think so. Perhaps it had to do with the rock composition.

-- I haven't seen the original series' "Tribbles" or the DS9 remake in quite some time, but I seem to remember that tribbles were unknown to the Federation at the time. Both McCoy and Spock studied them as though they were totally unfamiliar with them.

Yep, Trike. Cyrano Jones had to explain to everyone what a Tribble was, McCoy had to study them, only Jones knew about how fast they reproduced at first and at the end Jones was found guilty of transporting an animal that had proven to be harmful. Everything indicated that before The Trouble With Tribbles Tribbles were unknown, not a lifeform that had been outlawed on many planets.

Once again going into a cave without wearing protective headgear. Not only do helmets protect a person from hitting their head into a stalactite and/or protect one from falling rocks, but you can attach a light to them so you can have your hands free and no matter which way you turn the light is always pointing in the right direction, unlike that backpack light they had which had to be manually turned.

Phlox says, "The will of the patient is the cornerstone of Denobulan medicine."
Unless of course it's somekinda genetic glitch, then they'll just let the patient die like in Dear Doctor.

Also reminded of Dear Doctor when Archer commented that he didn't want someone to die if they had a treatment.

And when Phlox said he hadn't killed anyone I thought of that race that he is allowing to die.

The impression I had from Broken Bow was that Denobulans mostly stayed on their home planet, but this episode & the one with Phlox's wife indicate that they are not quite the homebodies I thought they were.

I thought they had called them speleotherms earlier, but twice toward the end it sounded like they called them speleothems.

Looks like the Denobulans have studied the Janeway method of "caving" to a request (bad pun intended)

Trip: Come with us.
Geologist: No.
Trip: Our orders are to take you with us!
Geologist: NO!
Trip: Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease!!
Geologist: OK.

Apparently I'm not the only one who muttered "Rock climbing, Joel" throughout half this episode.

How original. Nothing at all like, oh, Hawkeye treats a North Korean POW.

Why is Phlox writing to his son at the end? What new piece of information is he offering that might change the son's mind about the Antarans? That Hudak submitted to medical treatment? How does that humanize ("Deobulize?") the Antarans?

Henry Stram: Any relation to legendary Texans/Chiefs coach Hank Stram?

Trike: I haven't seen the original series' "Tribbles" or the DS9 remake in quite some time, but I seem to remember that tribbles were unknown to the Federation at the time.
:: So, apparently, were the Denobulans. So I gotta ask, who had the last laugh? And why is Hoshi afraid to talk?

Actually, this episode is completely different from Hawkeye treating a North Korean POW. As far as I can remember, Hawkeye never questioned whether or not to treat enemy soldiers--he always did, often butting heads in the process with Frank and wounded American soldiers who wanted to know why the enemy was being treated before one of their fellow soldiers. Here, we have Phlox struggling to decide what to do--to give into his own internal prejudices or to try and lead his life in the manner in which he taught his children. I think that is what he was writing to his son about at the end--his prejudice that he had to overcome when Archer ordered him to provide medical treatment to Hudak.

Maybe Hoshi stopped talking because the 'soothing, calming' effect had started working on her and was suddenly stopped when the tribble was dropped in the cage (the one that Spock was immune to ;) )...Earlier I thought that only happened when someone held the tribble, but I guess just being in proximity is enough. The tribbles uncovered Arne Darvin just by being waved at him

At first I thought I had a nit:
The Denobulans left no ropes behind as a way to get back up. Ropes would have been a good clue for Travis to let him know which way to go.

Then I thought I had an anti-nit:
The team learn that the Denobulans climb with hands & feet. In fact, they are surprised to discover that the Denobulans didn't have gear.

Now, I believe I have a variation on my first nit:
If the team didn't know that the Denobulans could climb without gear, then why weren't they looking for ropes left behind? The team wasn't sure about the direction that they took, so they should have been looking for ropes. But then, they might never have found them.

TRIBBLE TROUBLE: I think maybe the Tribbles were known to the Federation but not completely. As far as Phlox was concerned, they're just a good source of protein to his animals. Maybe it's just a footnote in the history books. ("TRIBBLE (noun): furry critter that tastes good dipped in Yamok sauce.") Maybe McCoy was not familiar with this one species. Think of how many animal species that would be known the Federation. He couldn't know all of them.

TUE

On a scale of 1 to 10 I'd have to say it rates only a 4. While not as bad as some of the other episodes, I must admit it didn't grab me as much. I think they could have concentrated a great deal more on the interaction between Phlox and his patient, for example. I was also expecting T'Pol to give advice to Phlox for a change, since he tends to be the one giving her advice. It would have been a nice touch.

My nit does concern the rock-climbing fiasco:

If it took two days for Trip & co. to get down to the Denobulans, just how did they manage to get back up so quickly? ISTR they were only leaving the planet only an hour after the deadline.

As for Hoshi's freezing in sickbay, I think it was the reaction of Dr. Phlox feeding the cute, cuddly tribble to his predator with no signs of remorse (he may have been smiling, in fact, though I'm not certain).

Marc

I believe that Travis may now qualify as the Chehov of the show. He's had his leg hurt twice now, and he was almost left for dead.

Malcolm could be runner-up.

Anonymous--I don't see Phlox conflicted by prejudice, but by his (valid) medical ethic against treating an unwilling patient. So persuading the patient is still nothing to write home about, at least to a bigot.
And you just have to redistribute the moral cards to get M*A*S*H. Hint 1: Phlox isn't Hawkeye--Archer is.

To clarify--the above comment was addressed to yesterday's "Anonymous." How come you guys have the same name?

---Critique:
---I am fast running out of different ways to say, “Been there, done that.” I am also running out of ways to express incredulity at an episode title that seems to bear little or no connection to the story in it.
---There is nothing about the Phlox/Hudak story that that was either original, or believable, given Phlox’s established personality. We’ve had plenty of “two races that have to get over their mutual hatred/distrust episodes,” including more than one on this very series, and this one offers no new angle or wrinkle in that tired old premise. What makes it harder to swallow is that neither Phlox nor Hudak have ever even met a member of the other species. For Hudak to feel such blinding hatred even though no Antaran has seen a Denobulan for six generations, and when his life is in jeopardy, simply because of the propaganda of his people’s history books is uninspired as it is. For Phlox, who has shown saintly patience and detachment in episodes lik Vox Sola, Dear Doctor, A Night in Sickbay, and who asserts that he doesn’t share the hatred of Antarans that other Denobulans do, to become so easily provoked by Hudak in Act 3 is even worse. I can buy the idea that Phlox was somewhat sensitive because Hudak reminded him of Mettus, and Phlox’s letter to Mettus at the very end of the episode was a nice touch, but as a whole, and with the absolutely boring rock climbing B-plot, this episode was mediocre.

---Notes:
---Phlox says in the teaser that tribbles are outlawed on most worlds.
---We learn quite a bit about Denobula’s relationship with one of its neighbors, and that Phlox’s grandmother lived through the last war between Denobula and Antara 300 years ago, and we learn the name of Phlox’s younger son, Mettus, and what caused that rift between him and Phlox, which Phlox mentioned to Archer in A Night in Sickbay, and that they haven’t spoken in ten years.

---Continuity Nods:
---The teaser features the first Enterprise appearance of tribbles, and the first time they’ve appeared since Trials and Tribble-ations(DS9). Phlox says that the only thing that keeps them in check is an abundance of reptiles on their homeworld.

---Terms:
Denobulan Science Academy Institution from which Phlox receives a urgent letter in the teaser.
speleothems Unusual rock formations that Phlox mentions are found in the caverns on Xantoras in the opening scene of Act 1.
Xantoras Planet to which the Enterprise is sent in the episode, whose government has been unstable for the past couple of years.
hemostatic scan Procedure used to check for internal bleeding that Phlox orders given to one of the injured crewmen in sickbay in Act 1.
Hudak The xenomythology teacher from the Antaran transport who was working near the reactor when it blew, and received a high dose of radiation. (Name from startrek.com only.)
intra-cellular regeneration Complex procedure Phlox tells Archer will be required for Hudak.
Antarans Species to which Hudak belongs. The Antarans have a hostile history with the Denobulans, although it has been 300 years since their last conflict.
calcite A common crystalline form of natural calcium carbonate, chemical formula CaCO3, which the Denobulan geologists found in the Xantoran caverns, as one of them mentions to Trip in the opening scene of Act 4.
aragonite An orthorhombic mineral form of crystalline calcium carbonate, dimorphous with calcite, which the Denobulan geologists found in the Xantoran caverns, as one of them mentions to Trip in the opening scene of Act 4.
botryoidal flowstone A layered deposit of calcium carbonate on rock where water has flowed or dripped, whose formation resembles bunches of grapes, which the Denobulan geologists found in the Xantoran caverns, as one of them mentions to Trip in the opening scene of Act 4.
tractosites Cave formations which one of the Denobulan geologists tells Trip he’s spent 14 years looking for in the opening scene of Act 4.
Mettus Phlox’s younger son, who embraced hatred of Antarans, as Phlox tells Hudak in Act 4.

I could use some right about now
In the first scene in sickbay in Act 1 featuring the injured crewman of the transport ship, Phlox tells one of the medics to give a patient 2 cc’s of anaprovaline for the pain. This makes at least the sixth known use of anaprovaline, and the third used on Enterprise alone. In the beginning of Act 1 of Transfigurations(TNG), Crusher used inaprovaline as a cardiostimulatory drug, using it to stimulate John Doe’s heart. In Act 5 of this Ethics(TNG), Crusher used inaprovaline as a neurological stimulant on Worf, and Bashir later used it to similarly strengthen Vedek Bareil’s brain against electrical stimulation in Act 1 of Life Support(DS9). In the teaser of Lifesigns(VOY), Kes suggested using high doses of it to stimulate cell regeneration. In Strange New World, Phlox used it as an anti-toxin on Novokovich. Then T’Pol told Phlox in the opening scene of Act 3 of Fusion that an injection of anaprovaline would take care of her elevated blood pressure and high levels of synaptic activity. Now, all of a sudden, surprise! It’s a painkiller, too!
Hey, some of those reactors have A LOT of mythological history in them, ya know!
When Hudak is first brought into sickbay in Act 1, the medic says he was working near the reactor when it ruptured. Hudak later tells Phlox in the second scene of Act 3 that he is a xenomythology teacher who studies the legends of alien species. What was a xenomythology teacher doing working near a reactor?
From the publisher’s of Gray’s Anatomy comes: Gray’s Pretentious Vocabulary for Doctor Wannabes
Phlox says that Hudak will require “intra-cellular regeneration.” So each of his damaged cells must be regenerated on the inside? Why not just treat him and regenerate new cells, rather than repairing damaged ones? (It’s not like they don’t have some stuff that can do that, ya know, along with five other things…)
The geologists’ version of “We have to find some deuterium quick!”
One of the Denobulan geologists tells Trip in the opening scene of Act 4 that they can’t leave because they’ve made significant discoveries in the cavern, including that calcite is in the speleothems. Calcite, according to my American Heritage Dictionary, is a “common” crystalline form of natural calcium carbonate. I’m not sure how “common” it is, but my research indicates that it is the main ingredient in limestone, that it is the mineral that builds up stalagmites in caves, is a common mineral in hydrothermal veins and can occur in some eruptive rocks. Is this abundance in easily accessible rocks specific to Earth? Does this abundance not occur on Denobula? Or in all the places this scientist has been in 14 years of searching? Too bad he didn’t come to Earth!

The producers are trying to court the Klingon demographic
If Tribbles are extremely difficult to acquire because they’re outlawed on most worlds, why did Phlox go through the trouble of getting one if he was simply going to feed it to his lizards?

Sparrow47: Sooooo... Archer said that the planet they were visiting (can't remember name) was a haven for diversity... How, exactly could such a xenophobic group come to power?
Luigi Novi: They said that the government had been politically unstable for the past several years, and that a militant faction took control a couple of weeks ago. I don’t find this so difficult to believe. Our own history has one or two examples of the same thing happening.

Sparrow47: I didn't hear anything about there being a native species to the planet.
Luigi Novi: Well, they said there was a government, and that a militant faction took over. Naturally, whenever we see an inhabited planet, we do assume that they’re natives, don’t we?

Sparrow47: The story with Phlox and the Aurturan (sp... and was his name Hudax? Did we ever get his name?)
Luigi Novi: The closed captioning and startrek.com gives the species as “Antaran.” The website also gives the spelling of “Hudak,” but his name was never mentioned in the episode.

TUE: SOMETHING BORROWED: Shades of Voyager's "Jetrel" and "Nothing Human" can be seen as well as the Worf subplot from TNG's "The Enemy". I could think of worse episodes to borrow from.
Luigi Novi: Woulda been nice if they didn’t have to borrow from so many episodes in the first place.

TUE: Phlox is such a great character. John Billingsley is always able to do amazing things with the character. He can definitely carry an episode better than Mayweather.
Luigi Novi: Phlox’s Pyrithian bat can carry an episode better than Mayweather.

TUE: THE DENOBULANS' ROCKS: The Denobulans claim that they'll need help to get their samples out. How were they planning to get them out later?
Luigi Novi: Perhaps the had other Denobulans to help them when they first got there, and who would return to the cavern their expedition was originally scheduled to end?

Aping David Sluss' format now, are we, TUE?

ScottN: My question is, if he grew up as a boomer, where did he learn those skills?
Luigi Novi: Artificial rock-climbing facilities and walls they had built on the Horizon? There’s a rock climbing facility on Broadway and W60-something St. in New York City.

Trike: When Malcolm fell and started sliding down the rock-face with Trip and Travis in tow, I just started laughing. I thought the sequence was very funny. Was it supposed to be serious? Was there supposed to be a sense of danger?
Luigi Novi: It kinda invoked memories of the water slides at Dorney Park and Wildwater Kingdom for me.

Trike: I haven't seen the original series' "Tribbles" or the DS9 remake in quite some time, but I seem to remember that tribbles were unknown to the Federation at the time. Both McCoy and Spock studied them as though they were totally unfamiliar with them.
Luigi Novi: Which the episode plugs up by having Phlox tell Hoshi that it is extremely hard to procure one because they’re banned on most planets. It’s not surprising that this didn’t stop Cyrano Jones.

KAM: Everything indicated that before The Trouble With Tribbles Tribbles were unknown, not a lifeform that had been outlawed on many planets.
Luigi Novi: But doesn’t the fact that they’re outlawed on “most” worlds explain why one may not easily come across them, and why therefore the Enterprise crew were unfamiliar with them The Trouble with Tribbles(TOS)? Space is big, and if no Federation ship ever went to the homeworld, it makes perfect sense. Is there anything barring someone from having visited the New World and giving some of the Native Americans some tobacco to enjoy, long before tobacco began to be shipped there en masse in the time period that we know? So long as the Natives it was given to used it up, destroyed it, and/or didn’t think to plant it, why not?

TJ Fleming: Why is Phlox writing to his son at the end? What new piece of information is he offering that might change the son's mind about the Antarans? That Hudak submitted to medical treatment? How does that humanize ("Deobulize?") the Antarans?
Luigi Novi: Phlox might simply want to make an emotional appeal. Using an anecdote is a way some people argue a point.

ScottN: My question is, if he grew up as a boomer, where did he learn those skills?

Luigi Novi: Artificial rock-climbing facilities and walls they had built on the Horizon? There’s a rock climbing facility on Broadway and W60-something St. in New York City.

Would they waste that much space on a cargo ship? Remember, this is before replicators, etc. They'd need pretty much every spare cubic inch for supplies/cargo.

I could see it happening in an empty cargo hold, though, so it is still possible that he learned climbing skills on ship. Another possibility is that his family took vacations onworld often enough that Travis could learn the skill.

Marc

All you need is one wall, Marc. Travis might have built it himself.

Two things (and one is a rant):

-- I don't think the writers plugged the continuity hole concerning tribbles. Follow: Phlox is Denobulan doctor in a medical exchange program with the Vulcans. Phlox knows about tribbles. Therefore, other Denobulan doctors should know about tribbles. Therefore, the Vulcans should know about tribbles from their experiences with the Denobulans. That means the information should have been recorded in a Vulcan scientific database so, a century later, Spock or McCoy could read up on them.

Phlox's line about tribbles being banned on several worlds only makes the nit more glaring, in my opinion, because it establishes that tribbles are widely known.

-- Second, the tribble scene was just another weak Enterprise teaser. Too often lately, the teasers have been throwaway material, and I'm sick of them. During TNG, the teasers largely worked well, hooking the audience into the story. I think of the teaser from Best of Both Worlds (the Borg crater) or even a less memorable episode like Second Chances (the Riker clone), which I saw recently. Those teasers were really effective. On Enterprise, the teasers are too often fluff, like with the tribbles (no pun intended) or, like "Judgment," come across as merely a first scene with no surprise, twist or mini-cliffhanger. I think if Enterprise really wanted to make some changes to show it could be different, one would be to eliminate the teasers. For the most part, they just don't work anymore.

Luigi Novi: But doesn’t the fact that they’re outlawed on “most” worlds explain why one may not easily come across them, and why therefore
the Enterprise crew were unfamiliar with them The Trouble with Tribbles(TOS)?
I think you missed the point Luigi.
Trike pointed out about the Denobulans & Vulcans knowing. Also isn't it likely that some of those worlds that have banned Tribbles would have later joined the Federation, & their knowledge of & rules about Tribbles would still be in effect & most likely in some computer database that could be easily brought up by Uhura, Kirk, Spock, McCoy, or anyone else on the Enterprise or K-7. And even if in the unlikely event that none of these worlds joined the Federation, these rules would still be in some computer database because of the possibility of trade with these worlds.
Nobody could do anything about Cyrano Jones because he wasn't breaking the law. Tribbles were not dangerous animals. However at the end it was proven that Tribbles were harmful to human life (i.e. dangerous animals). If worlds had banned Tribbles, somebody could have dug up this information sooner & realized what was going to happen & tried to stop the Tribbles population growth before it got too out of hand.
Just because no one in The Trouble With Tribbles had heard of a Tribble before doesn't mean that they wouldn't have tried to see what kind of information they could dig up on them, if there was any to be found. It's as simple as typing in a word in a Search Engine.

However, nits aside, feeding the Tribble to Phlox's beastie was the highlight of this episode.

Trike, I think the worst Star Trek teaser of all time was the Voyager ep where Seven is playing the piano.

"If Tribbles are extremely difficult to acquire because they’re outlawed on most worlds, why did Phlox go through the trouble of getting one if he was simply going to feed it to his lizards?"

Well, if Phlox acquired one, he surely now has alot more than one now.

They said that the government had been politically unstable for the past several years, and that a militant faction took control a couple of weeks ago. I don’t find this so difficult to believe. Our own history has one or two examples of the same thing happening.Luigi Novi

True enough. Though I still think the scenario is a little sketchy, given the amount of interstellar contact this place seems to have. Just me, I suppose.

Well, they said there was a government, and that a militant faction took over. Naturally, whenever we see an inhabited planet, we do assume that they’re natives, don’t we?Luigi Novi

Um... sorry, could you qualify the "they're" in that statement?

On a more general note, I was wondering if the reason people were having trouble with this episode is because the writers couldn't decide making the A and B plots firmly established. DS9's "Treachery, Faith, and the Great River" had a similar problem where you couldn't tell which plot was supposed to be the leading one. Any thoughts on this?

So what was the that combination again? Left left, right right, fire or left right, left right, fire?

This is something I spotted by accident - watch 'Horizon' and 'The Breach' again, focusing on the airlock scenes. You will notice that each time characters use different combination of keys to open the airlock.

I'm pretty sure that other episodes will show yet another combinations in use.
It's a minor nit, but it's very entertaining.

Luigi Novi:
The geologists’ version of “We have to find some deuterium quick!”

One of the Denobulan geologists tells Trip in the opening scene of Act 4 that they can’t leave because they’ve made significant discoveries in the cavern, including that calcite is in the speleothems.

It gets worse than that: I looked up "speleothem" and it's defined as...

A mineral deposit of calcium carbonate that precipitates from solution in a cave.

So apparently there aren't any speleothems which don't have any calcium carbonate.

I agreed with Luigi, it was a boring, unimaginative episode.

About the tribbles...the worlds they were banned on, didn't join the Federation, had disasters which wiped their records, or hackers who deleted all records beginning with the letter "T"... I dunno.

Good thing the Antarans didn't know about the events of the episode "Dear Doctor."

And once again the writers use a name which is too similar to another race--Antareans, who have been mentioned before.

Was this supposed to be the same race?

Marc Lechowicz: Would they waste that much space on a cargo ship?
Luigi Novi: Whether such a thing would be a “waste” is largely a matter of personal opinion. What if Travis and Paul’s father was an avid rock climber, and installed such a wall when he first got his own ship, and that this hobby was passed down to some of those who grew up on the Horizon, such as his kids?

Marc Lechowicz: They'd need pretty much every spare cubic inch for supplies/cargo.
Luigi Novi: Says who? Where has this been established?

Do we know that they don’t devote a portion of their ship to recreational facilities? A gym? A movie screening room? An arboretum?

And even such space is limited, do we know that all their cargo space is always filled to capacity on each run? If the Horizon regularly carries 30,000 metric tons, but has space for say, 31,000, I think there’s room to use one wall.

Think of it this way: You walk into one of the cargo modules. Cargo containers are lined up and stacked. Now don’t there have to be aisles in between each set of stacks so that guys with inventory clipboards can walk around them to check the inventory? If one of those aisles is in between the module wall, and a row of cargo near the wall, why can’t that wall be used for climbing?

Who says you need an entire empty cargo hold for it? Again, go to the rock climbing facility on Broadway in the lower 60’s, on the west side of the street. Just by looking inside from the sidewalk, you can see that it’s quite narrow.

Trike: Phlox is Denobulan doctor in a medical exchange program with the Vulcans. Phlox knows about tribbles. Therefore, other Denobulan doctors should know about tribbles. Therefore, the Vulcans should know about tribbles from their experiences with the Denobulans. That means the information should have been recorded in a Vulcan scientific database so, a century later, Spock or McCoy could read up on them. Phlox's line about tribbles being banned on several worlds only makes the nit more glaring, in my opinion, because it establishes that tribbles are widely known.
Luigi Novi: Good point. Perhaps it was placed in the same Vulcan file containing info on pon farr, and that file was lost?

KAM: I think you missed the point Luigi.
Luigi Novi: Geez, give me some time, I’ll eventually get it!

Rene: Well, if Phlox acquired one, he surely now has alot more than one now.
Luigi Novi: Good point.

Sparrow47: True enough. Though I still think the scenario is a little sketchy, given the amount of interstellar contact this place seems to have. Just me, I suppose.
Luigi Novi: Maybe, but if you don’t mind my asking, what does the amount of interstellar contact have to do with it?

Sparrow47: Um... sorry, could you qualify the "they're" in that statement?
Luigi Novi: The government. Naturally, whenever we see an inhabited planet, we do assume that those in the government—or whatever factions take over it—are natives, don’t we?

Sparrow47: DS9's "Treachery, Faith, and the Great River" had a similar problem where you couldn't tell which plot was supposed to be the leading one. Any thoughts on this?
Luigi Novi: I don’t see that as important, personally. If the story or stories are good, I don’t care. What difference does it make which one is supposed to be the leading one?

Kazeite: It's a minor nit, but it's very entertaining.
Luigi Novi: Hey, if that’s what makes an episode for ya, Kazeite, good for you.

oregano: And once again the writers use a name which is too similar to another race--Antareans, who have been mentioned before.
Luigi Novi: I don’t recall any episode with a race called “Antareans.” The closest I can think of is Manhunt(TNG), which featured the Antedeans, or Lonely Among Us(TNG), which featured the Anticans.

One nit or psudo nit that no one has mentioned is the fact that the last war between the Antareans and the Deobuluans ended 300 years before this episode which would have put it at about 1953, this was the last war of sevral conflicts so Deobuluans/Antareans 1st contact had to happen signifigantly earlier, that not with standing we can assume Deobuluans had warp drive as late as 1853. We know at this time humans can go warp 5; vulcans warp 7, assuming because of sevral lines in this and other episodes that Deobuluans cant do much faster then about warp 5. How long does it take to devolop warp technology I.E to go from warp 1 to warp 9+. The humans went form warp 1(2060's)to warp 9.999(2370's) (also remember the scale changes so in TNG warp 9 is a lot faster then warp 9 in TOS and therefore presumable ENT) Thats 300 years if Humans could do it why couldent to Deobuluans or for that matter the Vulcans? Just a thought let me know what you think of the issue

Also whats the deal with the racism its been 300 years its been 55 since WWII and I would assume a German would have no problems being treated by french or jewish doctor

((Yet another example of how humans advace faster then the rest of the universe ))

In "Cease Fire," Phlox said he had served as a medic in the Denobulan infantry. Unless he were compelled into service, that would seem a strange choice for someone so opposed to the brutality the military had shown the Antarans.

Antarans...at least somewhat like the aliens that came down to Earth in "Cocoon?"

As for Spock and McCoy not being able to find data on the tribbles...doesn't anyone remember the level of technology in that episode? They didn't even have digital displays.

Anonymous: How long does it take to devolop warp technology I.E to go from warp 1 to warp 9+. The humans went form warp 1(2060's)to warp 9.999(2370's) (also remember the scale changes so in TNG warp 9 is a lot faster then warp 9 in TOS and therefore presumable ENT) Thats 300 years if Humans could do it why couldent to Deobuluans or for that matter the Vulcans? Just a thought let me know what you think of the issue
Luigi Novi: Technological progress isn’t simply a matter of the amount of time a given people have, it’s also determined largely by many other factors, such as politics, economics, etc. We didn’t land on the moon when we did because of pure science or technological progress. We did largely because of the Cold War. Conversely, we’ve seen that Vulcans are somewhat more isolationist in their approach to exploration than humans are; they supposedly do not explore space based on curiosity (though what criteria their exploration is based on, I’d like to know.) The Denobulans may have achieved a certain level of technological progress for any number of reasons. Perhaps they had to find a new planet to colonize because of overpopulation (the fact that there is only one continent on Denobula Triaxa would be consistent with this). Maybe they developed warp drive in order to map Near-Denobula Objects that threatened them. It’s possible that they achieved a certain level of technology, and because of the cost, or politics involved, or whatever, they leveled off and didn’t go further than that little niche they carved for themselves in the interstellar community.

Trike: In "Cease Fire," Phlox said he had served as a medic in the Denobulan infantry. Unless he were compelled into service, that would seem a strange choice for someone so opposed to the brutality the military had shown the Antarans.
Luigi Novi: Not if the Denobula of Phlox’s youth had moved on, and was no longer the same society as that of 300 years earlier.

Heyst: As for Spock and McCoy not being able to find data on the tribbles...doesn't anyone remember the level of technology in that episode? They didn't even have digital displays.
Luigi Novi: And yet they had voice interfaced computers.

About Antareans--I was thinking of Antarian Brandy, which implies a life-bearing planet orbiting Antares. The name sounded so familiar, I did a web search and there's some sort of RPG game involving Antareans and Orions, semi- Trek based.
And the name is *similar*, not identical, to a lot of others. They just aren't being systematic.

Could these tribbles be creatures which are similar, but not the same as, the ones in the TOS episode? Lots of life forms get the same names, or similar names, and names get switched around.

One other nit which oughta be mentioned; it's been in other episodes--80+ crewmembers and they can't spare anybody else to go down to the caves?

Sorry I haven't responded to the rock climbing thing. I didn't check the boards for a couple of days, and the 'topics in the last week' link wasn't working for me.

Good points on the amount of space needed for the rock climbing thing, however, I'm basing the usage of space on the idea behind the short story (I think it was Cold Numbers, or something like that), where a girl stowed away on a transport to see her brother and was ejected because there wasn't enough oxygen.

Unless the cargo ship has some sort of oxygen producing mechanism, they'd have to have a set amt of oxygen when they left space dock-even assuming oxygen recyclying abilities. Each cubic inch would have to then be accounted for. Don't forget for every cubic inch that you're oxygenating, you'd need x amt of space for oxygen storage.

The bigger you build a ship, the more power you need to move it (ie, more fuel)-which in turn equals even more space for fuel storage. Given that the government is probably not giving these ships away, you'd have to spend money on all this. We know from various episodes of TOS that you need to replace Dilithium Crystals (fuel supply) every so often, so you'd likely need space to store extra crystals (more space, more oxygen, more fuel)

Now, I can conceive of a way for the rock-climbing wall to work. You have small outcroppings that either push in or fold up flat against the wall for times when you need the storage space, and can be extended when there's no cargo. If Cpt. Mayweather is that much of a fanatic, he may have spent the money on it, so, until we hear otherwise, I'd accept that explanation.

Marc

Marc, it was indeed "The Cold Numbers".

"The Cold Equations" by Tom Godwin

Whoops! My senior moment. Nove is correct. I just knew that "numbers" didn't sound right, but didn't have my reference material handy!

grabs a wet noodle and starts flagellating himself... 1, 2, 3, ..., 50!

Mark Lechowicz: If it took two days for Trip & co. to get down to the Denobulans, just how did they manage to get back up so quickly? ISTR they were only leaving the planet only an hour after the deadline.
Luigi Novi: Two, actually. (Pick, pick, pick! )

oregeno - Could these tribbles be creatures which are similar, but not the same as, the ones in the TOS episode?
So these are Trybbles instead of Tribbles? And the similarity of appearance & behavior is simply convergent evolution?

TJ Fleming: Why is Phlox writing to his son at the end? What new piece of information is he offering . . .
Luigi Novi: Phlox might simply want to make an emotional appeal. Using an anecdote is a way some people argue a point.

:: The point is, Phlox HAS no point, QED.

"I got a story, ain't got no moral;
. . .
Will it go 'round in circles?" (Billy Preston)

Anonymous: Also whats the deal with the racism its been 300 years its been 55 since WWII and I would assume a German would have no problems being treated by french or jewish doctor

:: OTOH, it's been over 700 years since the Eighth Crusade, and some people are still bitching about it.

Why does Phlox have to undergo some life-altering change in order for him to write to his son? According to him, it had been several years since he last spoke to him.

Perhaps the situation in the episode, while it didn't change Phlox's opinions about Hudak's people simply reopened an old wound in his relationship with his son. This reason alone would be enough for a father to try and reach out to his son again. Perhaps Hudak's willingness to allow Phlox to treat him demonstrated that there is always hope for someone to change.

Besides, it seems to me that Phlox did undergo a change.

Phlox argued that his medical ethics prevented him from treating Hudak. But I think part of Phlox's dilemma and arc was that he was using his ethics as a screen for his own buried prejudices (which we do see him submit to when battling Hudak's stubborness). It wasn't until Archer confronted him that Phlox even considered convincing Hudak to allow him to treat him.

Similarly, Phlox could be using the issue as a screen to prevent him from communicating with his son. "He won't listen, anyway, so what's the point?"

Well, the point was that sometimes people do listen... sometimes people do change... and we never know when or where those changes will occur, but they won't happen unless we try to effect them.

Reason enough for a father to write to his son, IMO.

Maybe, but if you don’t mind my asking, what does the amount of interstellar contact have to do with it?Luigi Novi

Well, consider Earth. Specifically, consider the directly-post-First Contact Earth of "Enterprise"'s era, and then the more intergalactically cosmpolitan planet of the TNG/DS9/VOY timeframe. With humans being so wary of Vulcans, I can much more easily depict an anti-alien sentiment climaxing in a goverment that expoused what these guys did. Paranoia and bigotry don't seem all that far removed from the human experience of "Enterprise," it seems. However, this scenario seems much less likely in 24th century Earth, because of the much more increased level of extraterrestrial invovlement. Does that make sense?

I don’t see that as important, personally. If the story or stories are good, I don’t care. What difference does it make which one is supposed to be the leading one?Luigi Novi

In theory, that's fine, but I think it makes a difference in how some people watch the show- without a strong central plot, they can't figure out where the message is, things like that.

Mark Lechowicz: If it took two days for Trip & co. to get down to the Denobulans, just how did they manage to get back up so quickly? ISTR they were only leaving the planet only an hour after the deadline.
Luigi Novi: Two, actually. (Pick, pick, pick! )

I sit corrected. And it's Marc, not Mark (Pick, pick, pick!)

Anonymous: Also whats the deal with the racism its been 300 years its been 55 since WWII and I would assume a German would have no problems being treated by french or jewish doctor

Actually, you're missing the parallel. Hudax isn't the German and Phlox the Jew, it's the other way around. Hudax would be the Jew, while Phlox would be the German. And yes, there are *many* Jews alive (both those who lived through the Holocaust and those who didn't) who would reject treatment by a German doctor. In fact, IIRC, at the 50th anniversary, a Jewish organization demanded that the Germans apologize again for the Holocaust.

Hate dies very slowly-especially where the two (or more) parties have little to no contact. African-Americans are still angry over slavery-and that was ended over a century ago. The Irish are still fighting the British, and that was 400 years ago. It's entirely possible (and quite likely given that the two peoples had no contact whatsoever for 300 yrs) that there is still hate on both sides.


Marc

Darth: Reason enough for a father to write to his son, IMO.

:: The estrangement, as I understand it, resulted from the son's bigotry, which Phlox purported not to share. Now, upon introspection, Phlox realizes that he shared his son's view to some extent, but the recent events have turned him back toward an honest tolerance. So, again, how does this help?

Dear son,
I always thought you were wrong and I was right. Turns out I may have been wrong too. But now I know I'm right, and you're still wrong.
Love,
Dad

Luigi Novi: If Tribbles are extremely difficult to acquire because they’re outlawed on most worlds, why did Phlox go through the trouble of getting one if he was simply going to feed it to his lizards?
Did he say they were extremely difficult to acquire? All the guy would need is one.

Yes, that's exactly what he said. But Rene made a valid point of them being an excellent source of food for his other animals because the rate at which they reproduce.

Dear son,
I always thought you were wrong and I was right. Turns out I may have been wrong too. But now I know I'm right, and you're still wrong.
Love,
Dad - TJ Fleming

I thought I was the sarcastic one...

Isn't the fact that this is his son sufficient reason for Phlox to write to him? Couldn't Phlox have, through this experience, simply decided that he needed to reach out to his son again? Why does it have to be that Phlox is trying to change his son's mind? Or couldn't Phlox have realized that he, too, held some buried prejudices and has decided to use this experience to hopefully reconnect with his son?

Regardless, I think the mere fact that this is his SON is sufficient reason to write to him... maybe up until this incident, his son was dead to him. But the experience with Hudak made him realize that this was the wrong tack to take.

There are any number of sound reasons why Phlox would write to his son, IMO.

Near the end of the episode (when Phlox tells the captain the Antaran's going to be fine), a bottle of Crystal Geyser is visible for about a second, sitting on the counter in sickbay. Maybe CG is still bottling water so many years into the future! =O

Wow. 5 Episodes behind. I really hate playing catch-up. Quick feelings: Good ep, esp A-plot, well-played, if not most original. B-Plot dragged, rushed then dragged. Only good part of B was that Archer, for first time, impressed me as a Captain when dealing with the alien gov't.

It may be poor control design, or Archer was just figgety, but in the briefing scene, he starts at the head of the conference table, moves to the foot, pushes some buttons, moves to the side, moves to the display at the foot of the table, and pushes some more buttons. Get the man his chair.

More brilliant personnel management from Archer. It's understandable to send Travis, as he is an experienced rock climber, but why send your chief engineer and your tactical officer on what, at the time, equated to a simple rescue mission, especially since Travis needs to train them?

According to Phlox, there has been no Denobulan/Antaran contact in generations. If so, how are they able to instantly recognize each other so quickly. Given the number of species whose only apparent distinction is a variation of nose/forehead differences, I'd think identifying species on first sight would be difficult in general, let alone without contact for centuries. Did Phlox' grandma's stories include detailed pictures?

Apparently Travis didn't think to teach common sense in his training of Reed and Trip. After Travis tells them to hold on while he braces them, Reed almost immediately starts inching forward anyway.

If all three men are tied together, shouldn't the brace be strong/secure enough to hold them? If not, why bother tying yourselves together?

Isn't it amazing what the human body can do? Travis stopped 3 fully-laden, fully grown men in near free-fall almost instantly by jamming his foot ackwardly into a random crevice, and all he got was a broken ankle and some torn ligaments? Sure.

On the way back up, one of the Denobulan scientists notes that the bombing has stopped. The last explosion had been heard all of seconds before. How does he know there hasn't simply been a brief lull, perhaps to reload?

I'm going by notes and memory here, but it looks like the shuttlepod being used to retrieve the scientists is Shuttlepod 1 (there is a fly by near the end, while being chased by the alien ship). However, moments before, Archer asked T'Pol to prep Shuttlepod 1 to retieve the team.

>My question is: why were they hiding all of those rock samples? Why not have them all together?
-Sparrow47

Why carry samples further into the cave if you're simply going to carry them out again?

Phlox' reaction to Hudak/letter to Mettus: I apparently had a different take on the character's reactions than the rest of you. In my mind, Phlox didn't have buried prejudices against Hudak because he was Antaran (as seems to be the implication in the previous posts), he was prejudiced against Hudak because of his [Hudak's] beliefs. Basically, he hated Hudak for being a racist. Rather than try and convince Hudak to accept the treatment, he wrote him off as a lost cause and moved on, just as he apparently did with Mettus.

Note the scene where Phlox finally reacts to Hudak's jabs. To the best of my recollection, he says something along the lines of, "No wonder none of my people could stand to be in the same room with you; all you do is hate." I don't believe Phlox ever says Denobulans or Antarans in that statement. It's rather obvious to fill them in, but I think it's reasonable to fill something else in as well. Replace "my people" with "enlightened people" and "you" with "bigots", and I could easily see the conversation happening between Phlox and Mettus.

That's why he's writing at the end. Not to convince Mettus that he is wrong, but to reconnect with him in general. If it changes Mettus' views, all the better, but Phlox' main concern is to reconnect with someone important to him that he pushed away rather than dealing with him.

Dustin Westfall: According to Phlox, there has been no Denobulan/Antaran contact in generations. If so, how are they able to instantly recognize each other so quickly.
Luigi Novi: Through pictures in their history books.

Dustin Westfall: Given the number of species whose only apparent distinction is a variation of nose/forehead differences, I'd think identifying species on first sight would be difficult in general . . .

:: Not really. We tend to group people by their most apparent differences from us. Thus, Europeans might think someone "looks" Italian, Swedish, or Polish, but be unable to distinguish Chinese from Japanese from Korean (and conversely). We group RNAs together because of their funny noses, but they see major differences between themselves and other funny nose species.
Nobody in TOS noticed that Bele was white on his left side whereas Lokai was white on the right. But the half-n-half guys would have noticed immediately, even if it were the first contact between their races.

Phlox's reaction to Hudaks jabs goes as follows:
Hudak goads Phlox that he wants to cure him to assuage his peoples guilt for what they did to Antara. He then taunts Phlox that he must have nightmares about his people due to the stories he must have heard. Hudak adds furthur salt to the wounds when he implies that Phlox has passed on these stories to his own children (He did no such thing as we find out later.). This angers Phlox who storms out of the room leading to this powerful scene.

Hudak: What would your children think of their father treating an Antaran?

Phlox: Enough!!

H: Would they even want to be in the same room?

P: I have tried to treat you with respect. But I refuse to listen to these insults! You're the reason why we haven't been able to put the past behind us, you've kept this hatred alive. No Denobulan would want to be in the same room as you!

I agree along the lines of Dustin Westfall. Phlox in himself is not prejudiced towards the Antaran people. He explicitly states this in his conversation with T'pol. He is angered at Hudak and people like him (Mettus for one). Racist bigots who refuse to move on and keep the conflict going. I don't believe that Phlox is generalising about all Antarans being hatemongers in the aforementioned exchange. I believe that the you in that altercation is meant for Hudak (and subconciously in Phloxes mind, Mettus) and his vile unjustified bigotry towards Phlox and his people. I also do not believe that Phlox's shocked reaction at his first sight of the unconcious Hudak is due to racial hatred more like "this could be awkward" a veiw I believe many liberally minded Israeli doctors might feel at the sight of an unconcious Palestinian. When Phloxes worst fears are confounded when Hudak responds with hostility to him I feel he must feel that "I tried to bring Mettus round to a more liberal viewpoint, I failed. I have little chance with this guy, he would rather die than let me help him. Yet another fool willing to martyr himself due to his insane prejudices. There isn't much I can do but lament on the stupidity of the small minded bigots who let this situation get as bad as it is." It takes Archer to have a little talk and bring him round.

Slightly off topic here, NANJAO do I say "I beleive" a lot in my postings.

No, I think you usually spell it right.

Antarans! Again!! B&B are positively obsessed with that race name! (See Drive (VOY)). At least in the Alpha Quadrant there is a small possibility of them actually coming from the Antares system (though if Enterprise actually visits it, doubtless nobody will realise that this is an Earth name, just like 'Rigel' in the pilot...

End rant.