First a nit: Maybe I wasn't watching carefully enough, but I don't quite understand why the people on this planet were so ready to accept the realities of space travel and such. While this scenario was not as extreme as, say, either Who Watches the Watchers?(TNG) or First Contact(TNG), I would have expected a bit more shock/disbelief.

That said, this was a good ep, though a bit low-key for my tastes. The guest cast did a fine job in most respects, something that couldn't be said for most Voyager guest casts when it was in its third season.

SURPRISE OF THE WEEK:
I couldn't believe it. I was just about to shout something when Star Trek surprised me.
One of the gunmen grabs T'Pol and threatens to kill her unless Reed surrenders. I'm ready to yell out "STUN THEM BOTH!!". Reed gives a knowing smile, shoots T'Pol and then shoots the gunman. OH MY GOD!! YES!!!! FANTASTIC!!! THAT MADE THE EPISODE FOR ME!!!!!!

FAMILIAR CHARACTER OF THE WEEK:
Was the deputy one of the characters from TNG's "A Fistful of Datas"? He sure looked familiar.

BAD FIRST IMPRESSION OF THE WEEK:
Archer decides to make official first contact with the people of the town. So he lands a shuttlepod right in town square and then Reed and two MACOS come out brandishing weapons. I understand that caution is advised, but perhaps concealed weapons would have been more effective.

QUANTUM LEAP FLASHBACK OF THE WEEK:
Anyone remember the last episode of Quantum Leap where Sam gets sent to this weird saloon? When Archer first entered the saloon, I had an immediate flashback.

SLACKER AMERICANS OF THE WEEK:
Is it really conceivable that in 300 years the humans on this planet would have made absolutely NO advances in technology??

SLACKER SKAGARANS OF THE WEEK:
The human colonies only occupy a small portion of the planet. Why haven't the Skagarans tried to make a journey to another area of the planet? It's not like they're being kept under guard or anything. The humans don't seem like they would mind if they suddenly disappeared.

HARDCORE CAPTAIN OF THE WEEK:
Archer takes a rather nasty blow to the shoulder with a shotgun and it gives a little grimace. I'd be yelling "HOLY S***!! I just got shot!" But then, that's why I'm not a starship captain.

COINCIDENTAL DRINK OF THE WEEK:
Presumably, the original people were abducted in the 1800s using transporters or stealth shuttles. Presumably, the Skagarans would not have allowed the humans to pack anything. How, then, does this colony have coffee? Did some original slave just happen to be carrying some coffee beans on him at the time of his abduction? Or perhaps what Archer was drinking doesn't taste anything like coffee at all (like what that one guy said in The Matrix about some kind of food.)

OVERALL OPINION OF THE WEEK:
It definitely wasn't the clunker I thought it was going to be. It had a nice message about race relations. Archer says that the humans may have been mistreated, but does that mean they have to hold it against the Skagarans forever? This reminds me of the current idea of giving black people money today for having their ancestors enslaved. At some point you have to forgive and forget.
I give it an A-. It would probably normally be a B, but Reed stunning T'Pol bumped it up for me.

See ya later
TUE

I feel about the same way for this ep as I do about First Contact. Both were well-executed, but both had huuuuuuuuge holes in their backstories. Even so, I liked this ep for what it was.

Three things I liked:
3) That little smirk Reed gave after shooting T'Pol. Priceless!
2) The shootings of MacReady and Archer both came from waaaaaay out of the blue. Any way of adding surprise to something we've seen so many times before is a good thing.
1) I just loved the calm way Archer managed to recalibrate his phaser to cut the guy from the balcony above him, before once again recalibrating and stunning him.

Three things I didn't like:

3) Where the heck were the MACOs after Archer got shot? It was like they suddenly dissapeared.
2) Was there any reason that Bennings and his folk didn't keep shooting after they hit Bethany?
1) Okay. So, the Skagarans supposedly ordered out for human workers for this colony of theirs. How problematic is this? Well, it just plain makes no sense! First, there's the distance factor- it's not like this planet is next door to Earth or anything. Then there's the whole matter of the Expanse. Did the Skags start in the Expanse? Is that where their home planet is? Isn't the Expanse notoriously hard to get out of? And if it's not, why are they trying to plant a colony inside? Aren't there any other places they could settle? And furthermore, T'Pol's reason for why they picked the humans in the first place seemed incredibly dense. They thought humans were better suited for the environment? It's not a human colony! Shouldn't they be putting it someplace more hospitable to Skagarians? And why haven't the Skagarians come to check up on this colony, anyway? Why? Why? Why?????

Other notes:

So, those MACO weapons... um... how powerful are they? Because apparently they don't even leave marks on wood. We see a few shots of MACO weaponry hitting a water trough during the firefight, but apparently their firepower didn't have any adverse effects on the trough. Weird.

After landing the shuttle, Reed and the MACOs only protect the front area of the pod, leaving the tail end wide open. Does this seem like a good idea?

The moment at the end where the sherrif raised his hand to Bethany's "who wants to see a picture?" was cute!

So, that's all I have for the moment. Not a bad ep, but the convulusions required for the setup are just baffling. Oy. Grade: B. Next week: I can already tell that it's going to be a dream. They wouldn't hit the Big Reset Button two weeks out of three... right?

JoshGould
First a nit: Maybe I wasn't watching carefully enough, but I don't quite understand why the people on this planet were so ready to accept the realities of space travel and such. While this scenario was not as extreme as, say, either Who Watches the Watchers?(TNG) or First Contact(TNG), I would have expected a bit more shock/disbelief.
I expected it too, but one thing still had me thinking that it was understandable. They knew they were from another planet, and that it was not normal to be from the same place as the other race. They pretty much been keeping themselves up to date on their status, well I thought so, when Bethany explained how her people were (I laughed at this) 'taken' to this planet. So, I pretty much think they are aware of space travel. I think why they are still in the level of technology and cultural of the time, is that maybe they want to try their best to preserve something of their homeworld.


Undesireable Element
First a nit: Maybe I wasn't watching carefully enough, but I don't quite understand why the people on this planet were so ready to accept the realities of space travel and such. While this scenario was not as extreme as, say, either Who Watches the Watchers?(TNG) or First Contact(TNG), I would have expected a bit more shock/disbelief.
Aeh! He's been shot up and banged up so much, it's probably feels like a bug bite to him.

I also loved the Reed stun T'Pol scene to get her out of the hostage situation. As for stunning them both, I guess that would have been better, but than again, the guy's gun could go off while both he and T'Pol slumped. With just T'Pol being stunned, (He didn't know) it was suffice to say, he would have just stood there and be shocked that his hostage's friend would shoot her. Atleast, the shock would have been a better way of keeping T'Pol unharmed. Plus, I think Reed wanted to stick it to the guy. Though, I must add, I am heavily disappointed. I wanted T'Pol to confront Reed later on, but that was not the case. I mean, that bit just screamed a later scene, but it was not to be. I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!! OK, ok, I'm alright, I just got carried away. Or shall I say, 'taken' away.
Is it me, or Bethany being 1/4 Skag just coincendence, being that the actress just recently played a human who was just 1/4 alien in 'Taken'?

Not bad.

Odd choice for a sweeps episode though. No scantily clad women? No connection to the Xindi storyline. And strangest of all, it's basically a western, and well, if westerns were such a great ratings draw then why aren't there more westerns on the air?

The Enterprise was orbiting the planet oddly. When seen at an early part of the episode the top of the ship was tilted toward the planet. At the end it was orbiting at a different angle.

Going through the Skagaran records Archer says, "They kidnapped the wrong people."
Sooooo, if they kidnapped the right people it would have been okay to enslave them?

I'm surprised that the gunman was able to sneak up on T'Pol. Don't Vulcans have better hearing than humans?

With a title like North Star I was expecting Archer (who claimed to come from the north) to be made a sherrif or lawman (tin star). Since that didn't happen I don't think the title was as fitting as it could have been.

So why didn't these peoples ancestor's take advantage of the Skagarn technology? They might not understand all of it, but you'd think they would have taken the Skagaran weapons and started using them.

No Xindi tie-in. Odd. But wait....what if the Skagarans show up again later, and feeling guilt over what they did to the humans so long ago, decide to repay their debt by helping the humans in their fight with the Xindi. Hmmmmmm.

---

Quote:

Odd choice for a sweeps episode though. No scantily clad women? Keith Alan Morgan

---

I had a bad feeling from the teaser, but it turned out to be much better than I expected.

Gotta say that Archer looks GREAT in that slicker outfit, very natural.

Both he and MacReady suffer the classic "Hero Wound", getting shot in the shoulder. Archer can even get into a tussle and have it hardly faze him (until the guy punched him there).

At least Travis got a line this week.

First a nit: Maybe I wasn't watching carefully enough, but I don't quite understand why the people on this planet were so ready to accept the realities of space travel and such. - Josh Gould

As SlinkyJ already pointed out, the inhabitants were already aware they were from another planet... and they knew the Skags were more technologically advanced than humans (before the revolt).


Is it really conceivable that in 300 years the humans on this planet would have made absolutely NO advances in technology?? - TUE

According to Reed, there were only about 6000 humans on the planet, scattered throughout various settlements. I don't think there was enough time (given the limited number of people) for any huge technological advancements. Plus, you have to consider what resources were available to them on the alien planet.


Why haven't the Skagarans tried to make a journey to another area of the planet? - TUE

Perhaps they did, but the other regions are even less habitable.


Presumably, the original people were abducted in the 1800s using transporters or stealth shuttles. Presumably, the Skagarans would not have allowed the humans to pack anything. How, then, does this colony have coffee? Did some original slave just happen to be carrying some coffee beans on him at the time of his abduction? - TUE

You may be presuming incorrectly...

Based on the clothing, construction, and existence of Earth horses I'd say we can presume that however the Skagarans kidnapped the original wagon train, they took it all. After all, it makes sense if you're going to kidnap aliens as slaves that you're going to need their food to sustain them.


With a title like North Star I was expecting Archer (who claimed to come from the north) to be made a sherrif or lawman (tin star). Since that didn't happen I don't think the title was as fitting as it could have been. - KAM

I seem to recall in early spoiler reports that North Star was the name of the town.

Overall, I liked it better than I thought I would. A little Planet of the Apes-ish (slaves become the masters). But I anticipated much, much worse.

I disagree with the general consensus that this episode had nothing to do with the Xindi arc. True, it doesn't have a direct bearing on the Xindi arc. But I think that thematically it holds some relevance.

The Xindi are out to destroy Earth because they believe humans destroy the Xindi in the future... a notion that Archer (and we, the audience) find inconceivable. This episode gives us a glimpse at the dark side of humanity... and that despite our societal advancements, others can (and often will) judge us based on not what we do, but what we're capable of doing.

And methinks someone on the staff is a John Carpenter fan... MacReady and Bennings were both characters in The Thing... and the episode after next is entitled "Carpenter Street."

After getting shot in the shoulder, why did Archer get into a fight with the deputy? Why didn't he just stun him?

No progress in all that time. Maybe they live like the Amish.

Guess space travel not possible for them if no post WW2 German scientists were there to hand over the rocket science secrets.

One might thing clothing styles would have changed. Weapon making evolution a Homo sapiens constant I believe.

If so much town was scooped off Earth by the aliens, then why no historical record of the mystery of an old town dissappearing in the Enterprise data banks? At least in the 37s Janeway knows that Emilia Erhart had been missing.

I had a recurring thought once I watched the teaser: I really wished Enterprise would focus on better developing its own genre than doing a story based on the stereotypes of another genre. And that's what this was: not a Western, but a story based on the stereotypes of Westerns. I admit the general premise was intriguing -- kidnaped humans overthrow their alien captors and encounter humans from Earth for the first time. This story, though, didn't do that premise justice, nor did it do justice to Westerns.

Nits and notes:

-- The episode was rated TV-14 for violence, the first time I recall Enterprise receiving such a rating. Some of the violance was graphic, such as Archer getting shot in the shoulder.

-- I imagine Paramount has a real nifty outdoors Westerns set that was used for this episode, but it really defied belief that the town so exactly resembled a Western town on Earth.

-- Further, humans were captured 200 years before the episode and rebelled within 50 years or so. But what tools and equipment did they have after their rebellion? How difficult it must have been to reproduce their civilization on Earth so exactly.

-- Finally, there was no mention given to a Western "Croatoan" settlement that disappeared without a trace. In the real world, it seems that would have been remembered.

Actually it was the Western outdoors set at Universal at least that is what the Production Report said it was at StarTrek.Com

Yes. And I recall someone took a picture of a shuttlepod outside one of those sets during a Universal backlot tour.

I imagine Paramount has a real nifty outdoors Westerns set that was used for this episode, but it really defied belief that the town so exactly resembled a Western town on Earth.

Further, humans were captured 200 years before the episode and rebelled within 50 years or so. But what tools and equipment did they have after their rebellion? How difficult it must have been to reproduce their civilization on Earth so exactly. - Trike

The assumption seems to have been made by many that these people were from a settlement or town in the West. Early spoilers recounted that it was a wagon train that was captured by the Skags. The indications in the episode seem to be that they not only captured the people, but all their belongings, too (otherwise, where'd the horses come from?).

Furthermore, their intention may not have been to "reproduce" an Old West town/civilization. It probably started as individual homes and ranches that eventually grew into a town, which is how many Old West towns surfaced. So I don't know how it can defy belief when this is how towns really developed in the Old West.

The reason they didn't evolve technologically was because unlike in the Old West, which was linked to the East (where most advancements took place), they were completely isolated. There weren't enough people or enough time to make any significant advancements.


Finally, there was no mention given to a Western "Croatoan" settlement that disappeared without a trace. In the real world, it seems that would have been remembered. - Trike

Again, according to the early spoilers, it wasn't a settlement that disappeared... it was a wagon train. While the episode doesn't make it clear which it was, the evidence supports a wagon train more than a town. There were plenty of wagon trains that never made it... the journey by wagon train to the Old West was grueling, the settlers having to endure the harsh elements and natives.

Regardless, there were plenty of abandoned townships in the Old West (we know them as "ghost towns"). The Skagarans could have easily taken people a little at a time so as not to attract attention and the remaining folks abandoned their town.

Why would the Enterprise be exploring this planet in the first place? Their priority is finding the Xindi weapon.

I dunno... you're on your way to finding evidence of the Xindi weapon and you stumble on human bio-signs where there shouldn't be any. I'd certainly investigate... heck, for all we know, this planet is the source of the humans who destroy the Xindi homeworld in the far future.

To the person who mentioned that the writers finally remembered the Enterprise had transporters, I think that's intentional. They don't use it too often because it's not either trusted/perfected

Yes, I know. But there have been other emergency situations just as dire where they seem to forget that the transporter exists.

Anyway, the whole 'It's too risky' thing didn't seem like a good excuse once they used it in the FIRST EPISODE!

Maybe if we saw or heard about some serious injury/death from a transporter accident. Otherwise, the crew seems like one of those silly superstitious races that they like to show the light to.

I noticed a nit that hadn't been mentioned yet. When Bethany gets shot, it's not clear where the wound is, but from the angle, I assumed she was shot on the left side. When Phlox removed the bullet, he removed it from her right side. Then, later when she was talking with Archer, she mentioned how there wasn't even a scar, and indicated her left side again. The only explanation I can think of is that the bullet traveled through her body, so it was easier for Phlox to get at it through the right side. But then she would have had a scar-less area on each side to indicate.

The teacher said that flight (Wright Brothers at Kitty Hawk) was done forty years after their ancestors were taken. That would place the kidnapping around 1863/64. That would place it during the American Civil War. Wagon trains were still moving west during the war, but at a lower level. And some did disappear without a trace....
However, we have the typical 'western' weapons, the 1873 Winchester level action rifle and the Colt .45 cal 'Peacemaker' pistol, which all came out in the 1870's/80's time frame. Even if the town could refine the ore, would they make the same types of weapons????
The nit about the wound is correct, but there should be no bullet to remove. If it hit below the ribs, the projectile would have gone through her. If it hit the ribs, then the bullet would have 'mushroomed', likely broke up and should have caused fatal damage. Even the soft lead bullets that would have been used, there is enough velocity for the bullet to go through the soft tissue of the lower body, hopefully not enough damage to organs/intestines that Doctor Phlox could fix up.
Still, was I entertained, yes. I also liked the stunning of T'Pol and the look on the 'cowboy's' face when he did it.

About that schoolmarm:
She helps a kid through an arithmetic problem--12 times 9--and then compliments him on his multiplication TABLES. If the kid is still perfecting the ones and twos tables, why is he working two-digit problems?
Later, thanks to materials from the Enterprise, she credits the Wright brothers with the first flying machine on earth. But even disregarding hot air balloons (1783), nobody could deny that a gasoline-powered airship (1898) is a “machine.” Sounds like Enterprise gets its textbooks from the same place it gets its scripts. (The Inattention-to-Detail Bookstore?)

TUE: Is it really conceivable that in 300 years the humans on this planet would have made absolutely NO advances in technology??
:: Who says they haven’t? Gallows building and whisky making have apparently lagged, but we don’t know what they’re farming with.

(Same): Why haven't the Skagarans tried to make a journey to another area of the planet?
:: My guess is that, without their technology, they’re dependent on humans for survival. Many freed slaves stayed on as sharecroppers, even though their lot wasn’t much better.

Star Trek fan: One might think clothing styles would have changed.
:: Why?

TJFleming: Later, thanks to materials from the Enterprise, she credits the Wright brothers with the first flying machine on earth. But even disregarding hot air balloons (1783), nobody could deny that a gasoline-powered airship (1898) is a “machine.”

Heyst: Not really that it's not a machine, but that the airship stays airborne because of the gas inside, not because of its moving parts. The airship might float away even if its engine isn't running, whereas an airplane needs its engine to stay aloft.

She helps a kid through an arithmetic problem--12 times 9--and then compliments him on his multiplication TABLES. If the kid is still perfecting the ones and twos tables, why is he working two-digit problems?" -- TJ Fleming

In my school, the multiplication tables went up to 12x12. We were expected to have them all memorized.

TUE

I'm glad you said it first, TUE. I, too, had to memorize through the twelve tables. But I didn't want to say anything, lest I be accused of dissenting for the sake of arguing.

[AOL]
Me too!
[/AOL]

But I didn't want to say anything, lest I be accused of dissenting for the sake of arguing.

I'm sorry, but I'm not allowed to argue unless you pay!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled nitpicking.

Heyst--that's why the materials Enterprise gave the teacher should have described the Wright brothers' achievement as the first HEAVIER THAN AIR flying machine (as do most competent references).

TUE, Darth, Scott--yeah, I learned 11s and 12s too, even though, as Darth intimates, it's a pretty useless exercise. But here, the kid is doing the math, the teacher knows he's doing the math ("don't forget to carry the one"), and she still casts it as a memorization table.

Here's an interesting observation: my original draft described the exercise as "stup**," and the preview dotted it out. So I tried it with the f-participle, and it passed! But I discretely went with "useless." (Kids--don't try this at home.)

Where did the school teacher get the books? Does the Enterprise carry a library or did Archer give up some of his books? Was one of them a history book?

Coffee beans - the settlers would have coffee beans with them (coffee was a very popular beverage of the 1860's), but could these have been planted to grow more? And why the saloon had no beer?

But here, the kid is doing the math, the teacher knows he's doing the math ("don't forget to carry the one"), and she still casts it as a memorization table. - TJFleming

Ah... I see what you're getting at now.

Then perhaps she only teaches the tables up to 10... and is now showing them how use the tables for longer multiplication problems...

Two times nine is eighteen... carry the one... One times nine is nine... add the one... 108.

Just as it should be! Single digit tables are the core of multiplication, sparing us the tedium of extended addition. Elevens and twelves are just Rain Man tricks--a total waste of mental capacity.

TJFleming: --a total waste of mental capacity.

only for those who don't feel they have enough of it heh heh

"Why should I memorize something I can so easily get from a book?" Albert Einstein

---Critique:
---Pass.
Start off with an anachronistic setting reminiscent of one of those TOS episodes where they saved money by reusing sets from other Paramount productions.
---Check.
Add a tired, lame anti-racism morality play.
---Check.
Mix in some stock cliché characters and gimmicks from the anachronistic setting’s genre: (corrupt lawman, damsel in distress, gratuitious gunfight, slowmo shot of guy being shot and rolling off roof, etc.)
---Check.
Like the kids around the evening dinner table whining about having to have meatloaf again, so too was this a tired mixture of leftover parts of various past episodes, mixed up in the hope that I’d swallow it. Then again, there is one difference between meatloaf and this episode: Meatloaf at least has some meat to it.
---Thanks, but no thanks.
Miscellaneous thoughts: Kudos to the prop masters for that excellent squid used when Bennings shot Archer during the gun battle in Act 4. I was actually pretty shocked when that happened. Well done! Kudos also to Reed for using the tactic Keanu Reeves used in beginning of Speed to free Jeff Daniels from Dennis Hopper when that one thug took T’Pol hostage near the end of the gun battle in Act 4.

---Notes:
Archer reveals to Sheriff MacReady in Act 3 that he was born in upstate New York

---Terms:
Deputy Bennings The lawman who executes the Skagaran man in the teaser.
Skags Nickname for the Skagarans used by the humans on the planet.
Sheriff MacReady The head of the law enforcement in the town. Bennings refers to him as “Mac” in Act 3, and Archer refers to him by his name in the closing shot of Act 3.
Skagarans The persecuted race on the planet, first mentioned by name by Bethany in the next to last scene of Act 1. It is mentioned in Bethany’s class in Act 2 that the Skagarans kidnapped humans from Earth 300 years ago as slaves to build colonies. They were overthrown by a man named Cooper Smith, whose ancestor, who owns the local bar, tells Archer in Act 1.
---The Skagarans in the episode are oppressed in order to prevent the humans falling into slavery again, and are referred to with in a derogatory manner as “Skags.” For a Skagaran to kill a man is punishable by death, even in self-defense, as Sheriff MacReady tells Bethany in Act 1. Teaching Skagarans is also illegal, as it is for them to own property and marry, as Bethany and Deputy Bennings mention in Act 2.
---Skagarans do not bury their dead, according to Bethany in the opening scene of Act 1.
Bethany The local woman that Archer befriends in the episode, whom he mentions is a teacher in the second to last scene of Act 1. Phlox reveals in Act 3 that she is one quarter Skagaran.
John Ford western Genre films by legendary film director John Ford (1894-1973), all of which Trip tells T’Pol he’s seen in Act 1 after she asks him if he knows how to ride a horse.
Cooper Smith The ancestor of the bar owner, a portrait of whom Archer sees hanging over the bar in Act 1, whom the bar owner says overthrew the Skagarans. According to the Skagaran version of history, Smith destroyed their weapons, and murdered entire Skagran families.
Draysik The young Skagaran man who works in the bar, whom Archer meets in Act 1.
Rokdar The name the Skagarans have for Cooper Smith, which means “butcher.”
Skagaran whiskey Illegal beverage that Sheriff MacReady offers Archer in Act 2, saying he has Henry keep some around for pulling teeth.
Henry The town’s doctor/barber, seen in Act 2.
Skag Town The Skagarans settlement first seen in Act 1, which consists in part of a Skagaran ship that’s been there for two centuries, as T’Pol’s scans indicate. Sheriff MacReady first mentions it by name to Archer in Act 2.

Man, that’s some strong booze
Why is the bartender in Act 1 missing the left half of his mustache?
They need its droppings to write the script
Why do T’Pol and Trip need to buy a horse in Act 1? If they got to the town by shuttle or beaming, why not just use the same method to leave?
From the Literally Stuck in the Past Files:
Why does this society of 6,000 people (as Travis mentions in Act 3) still resemble the Old West if it’s been 300 years since they were brought here?
Beam me up, Scotty, I’m in the middle of a lousy episode
Why is MacReady skeptical in Act 3 when Bennings tells him about Archer and Bethany’s beamout at the end of Act 2? MacReady knows that the Skagarans abducted his ancestors from Earth, and he even mentions to Archer about how the Skagarans had energy weapons, so if stories of their transporters exist, as Bennings indicates, why does MacReady think it’s a parlor trick?
No, but they would need to force me to watch this episode a second time
Jamahl Epsicokhan, in his review of the episode at http://www.st-hypertext.com/ent-3/northstar.html, wondered if people with interstellar travel, energy weapons, and matter/energy conversion technology, which the Skagarans apparently had, would really need to kidnap aliens for forced slave labor.
I hear that in the original script, they even let Jack Ruby into the police station
I guess sooner or later, even the MACOs were gonna start displaying poor security skills. While Archer speaks with MacReady, they, along with Reed, all stand in the same general area. They leave both side doors to the shuttlepod wide open. None of them think to position themselves on rooftops the way Secret Service agents would when the President visits a town. And apparently, they must’ve been looking in every direction but the one Bennings fired from, because Bennings was able to shoot MacReady.
Maybe they should’ve called it A Fistful of Western Cliches. Or The Good, the Skag and the Ugly.
Okay, someone wanna explain to me what the title of this episode has to do with its content?

Luigi wrote "Kudos to the prop masters for that excellent squid used when Bennings shot Archer during the gun battle in Act 4.

I think you mean 'squib' not the ocean dwelling creature with tentacles.

Ack! Yeah, that's what I meant.

Jamahl Epsicokhan, in his review of the episode at http://www.st-hypertext.com/ent-3/northstar.html, wondered if people with interstellar travel, energy weapons, and matter/energy conversion technology, which the Skagarans apparently had, would really need to kidnap aliens for forced slave labor. -- Luigi Novi

Much as I respect and enjoy Jamahl Epsicokhan's reviews, I don't think this is that big of a problem. The Klingons use slave labor on Rura Penthe. The Viddians used slave labor in the Voyager episode "Faces". I believe the Cardassians used Bajorans as slave labor during the occupation. The Orion Slave Girls are by definition enslaved.

While one could certainly argue that none of those situations really needed slave labor, the precedent has been set. The Star Trek universe apparently still has a use for slaves.

TUE

TUE, the Klingons do not use slave labor on Rura Penthe. Rura Penthe is a prison, and they simply make the prisoners work for their upkeep, much as many prisons do today. That's not slave labor.

The same goes for the Vidiians, whose primary purpose for kidnapping people is for organ harvesting. They simply make them useful to justify the expense of keeping them, and because, according to that episode, the Phage makes Vidiians physically weak.

Can you cite an example of a race with interstellar travel, energy weapons, and matter/energy conversion technology that uses slaves that doesn't involve such circumstances? If you could, and there wasn't some extenuating circumstance like the ones described for Rura Penthe or the Vidiians, then I would say that that would be a nit as well.

Cardassians and Bajorans, as TUE mentioned.

>The Orion Slave Girls are by definition enslaved. >

True, but they are apparantly used for "entertainment" not labor.

I don't understand why having interstellar travel, energy weapons or matter/energy conversion technology means that you can't have slavery...

I mean, you still need people to apply the technology, right? Enterprise doesn't fly by itself. Someone has to maintain deuterium pumps. The question is whether the people who operate the things do so willingly or not. If they don't, then they are slaves.

ScottN: Cardassians and Bajorans, as TUE mentioned.
Luigi Novi: But that makes sense. If the Cardassians invade another world and occupy it for 60 years, it only makes sense to make use of the population that way, which probably numbers in the millions or billions, rather than import more troops to do such things for them, which would require more expense, and require them to both feed those workers, and ration food for the Bajoran population, rather than combine the two. Did the Skagarans really kidnap millions or billions of humans? Wouldn't such a disappearance have been recorded in history? Hell, the disappearance of the colonists on Roanoke Island was recorded, and there were only 117 of them!

TUE: The Orion Slave Girls are by definition enslaved
Luigi Novi: But we don't know at what level of technology the Orions existed, and as ccabe pointed out, they were sex slaves, not slave laborers.

Darth Sarcasm: I mean, you still need people to apply the technology, right? Enterprise doesn't fly by itself. Someone has to maintain deuterium pumps. The question is whether the people who operate the things do so willingly or not. If they don't, then they are slaves.
Luigi Novi: Sure, but slave laborers are usually used for menial labor, not applied technical jobs that require education and skill, which slaveowners typically do not allow for slaves anyway, because it empowers them to seek their freedom and equality. Wouldn't the majority of menial jobs be related in societies with the type of technology we're talking about because of automation?

Yes, you'd still need some people to maintain starships, but depending on what situations the ships find themselves in, and how durable/reliable they are, they can be run by skeleton crews, and sometimes by only a couple of people.

Wouldn't the majority of menial jobs be related in societies with the type of technology we're talking about because of automation? - Luigi

The majority, maybe. But not all. And if you've got no one who wants to perform the menial tasks...

In any case, we're making all sorts of assumptions here about the Skagarans. Perhaps the technology they obtained was aquired by means other than their own development. There are plenty of developing nations on our own planet who have sophisticated technology of one sort or another (nuclear power, for example) but haven't risen beyond the need for menial workers and slaves (though they may not define them as such).

And while they weren't specifically referred to as slaves, to my recollection, the Troglytes were certainly an underprivileged (economically as well as politically) class forced to work in toxic mines to support the Stratos in The Cloud Minders, despite their being not only technologically advanced but in a relationship with the Federation.

Also, according to Star Trek Nemesis, the Romulans forced the Remans to mine dilithium.


...they can be run by skeleton crews, and sometimes by only a couple of people. - Luigi

But only if people want to do it. What if you have a society of people thinking, "Hey! Why should I work? With all this sophisticated technology at our hands, we can just kidnap people to do the work for us!" I mean, isn't that essentially how the slave trade began here on Earth? There was work to be done... but people didn't want to do it.

But I wonder if things like the Reman miners aren't nits as well. Doesn't automation make such tasks cheaper and faster?

Not when you have a few billion slaves that you have to take care of any way.

Why would you have to take care of any slaves if the tasks were automated? If they were automated, you wouldn't have slaves. That was the point.

You wouldn't have slaves for some tasks. But I still maintain that there could be tasks for which manual labor is needed.

Or perhaps there are incentives to slavery over automation... like politics. Take the Romulans/Remans, for example... sure, automation would be more efficient... but automation would give Remans more time and encourage them to think and perhaps even overthrow the Romulan government.

Basic labor has always been something with which the Chief frequently had a problem in the guides.

He wondered why it took 8 months for the SCE to dig out the cavern on Regula.

He wondered how they constructed that base seen in TNG's "Second Chances."

etc.

TUE

Okay, someone wanna explain to me what the title of this episode has to do with its content?

Maybe it has to do with using the north star to find your way home.

Wasn't a freighter in Fortunate Son (ENT)
called NORTH STAR, the one used by the vengeful first officer before joining the Fortunate?

When I first heard about this episode, I thought that TPTB would say that it had been found in the Expanse or something.

Torque: Maybe it has to do with using the north star to find your way home.
Luigi Novi: And what does either using a north star to find your way home or the freighter Ryan lived on prior to the Fortunate have to do with the content of the episode?

Dunno partner, what I reckon is dat you best be moving on. This episodes ain't right for you logical folk.

Again, early spoilers reported North Star was the name of the town. Obviously the reference must have been omitted during the editing process... or maybe there's signage that identifies the town. I don't recall any, and don't really want to rewatch the show to check.

Darth: Or perhaps there are incentives to slavery over automation... like politics. Take the Romulans/Remans, for example... sure, automation would be more efficient... but automation would give Remans more time and encourage them to think and perhaps even overthrow the Romulan government.

I think this is making Luigi's point for him. From what I can tell, he's arguing against the fact that a technologically advanced society would have a need for slave labor. The Bajorans, the Remans, the prisoners on Rura Penthe--all are slaves, but they are slaves because they are prisoners first. The Klingons didn't set up Rura Penthe because they needed slaves, they set it up to imprison people and then used the prisoners, once there, as slaves.

However, I think it is still conceivable than an advanced society might employ slave labor. It all depends on the cost-benefit ratio. Even with highly advanced technology, if it is still cheaper to employ slaves an unscrupulous person might choose to do so. Technology isn't free; it has to be bought, maintained (which might mean expensive mechanics), and fueled, and if that costs more than a team of slaves, then the slaveowner might not go along with it.

Jesse: The Bajorans, the Remans, the prisoners on Rura Penthe--all are slaves, but they are slaves because they are prisoners first.
Luigi Novi: The Bajorans and Rura Penthe prisoners, yes, but how was this established with the Remans?

And as far as the expensive mechanics, wouldn't the things they yield justify their cost?

Did they say where the people came from? A wagon train or a town?

There was an episode of "Time Tunnel" in which Doug and Tony pop into an old-west town in Arizona where they find extra-terrestrials engaging in some sort of business. At the end of the episode, although the aliens have left, the sheriff and everyone else are leaving town.

General Kirk, back in the tunnel control room, has had the records checked for a real town in Arizona where the population inexplicably abandoned the town.

I'm not saying the Skagarans are responsible for THAT town, since Arizona's colonization occurred perhaps closer to the 1870s/80s/90s than the 1850s/1860s.

It is also conceivable that World War III and other events have, at least temporarily, left Earth with incomplete records of history, and they aren't sure when assorted technologies of firearms were developed. For all Archer and his people knew, the Colt Peacemaker was around in the 1860s, even though it seems to be fairly new in 1885.

Then again, it could be that the property department couldn't go into too much work on historical authenticity in setting up the props for the episode. It's not like they were making "The Magnificent Seven" or a Clint Eastwood major motion picture. Just a weekly episode for a TV series.

The architecture should have evolved. The attitudes of the people should have evolved. There should have been some adaptations of firearm technology to what was available, since they'd have to start making guns out of what was available. New metals, tooling their own manufacturing process, developing new gunpowders unless everything they knew of was available.

It's possible that, to motivate the workers, the Skagaran scientists figured out how to genetically sequence the coffee to be grown in what was available. The humans might have been allowed to cultivate their own farms.

They seemed to be stuck in a time warp of 1863 or so.

North Star... it would have been a nice touch if a night scene had Bethany tell Archer that that bright star up there is the North Star because it seems to stay in the same place... and when Archer has it checked on nav charts on board the ship, they discover it is Sirius, Fomalhaut or Vega, one of the bright stars that is very close to Earth.

(BTW, there's very good reasoning that Fomalhaut might be Vulcan's star. It is bright, and could result in Vulcans having an inner eyelid, and noone would want to call its people Fomalhautians!)

That would have tied the title in nicely: Archer realizes that the people are in fact looking toward a star very close to their ancestral home.

Sol itself would probably be a dim and nearly invisible star, so far away.

Some astronomers believe that one wouldn't be able to see our sun more than 55 light years away without special equipment.

Although not strictly canon, the usual assumption is that Vulcan's sun is 40 Eridani A, not Fomalhaut (which, interestingly enough, is Arabic for 'Mouth of the Fish', I believe...)

I too wondered about the title, but it fits in perfectly well with the usual odd Enterprise naming scheme if we decide it's the name of the town (consider "Carbon Creek" f'rinstance).

Late in the episode Bethany or MacReady says that the humans were abducted 300 years ago (approximately 1853) which seems about right. Only earlier in the episode Trip and T'Pol said the ship wreckage was only 250 years old (1903). I suppose the Skagarans could have taken 50 years to get from Earth to this planet...but Trip said "that sounds about right" r.e. the 250 years figure, which makes no sense at all.

I think there's good evidence that the humans were kidnapped either before 1860 or after 1865 (US Civil War); otherwise, surely Trip's Southern accent would have aroused suspicions. On the other hand...maybe the humans here have got so obsessed with the Skagarans that they've forgotten about former divisions in their culture - they didn't seem to react particularly badly to the black MACO, for instance. Though I thought it was funny that they didn't react to the female MACO either...there were a few famous female gunslingers, but it was the exception rather than the rule. As ever Trek tends to ignore other issues to focus on just the one.

I have no problems with the Skagarans using slaves, though it's a bit odd that they used humans from Thempoxxe knows how far away to colonise this planet in the Delphic Expanse. Myabe the humans were supposed to terraform it for later Skagaran colonists to live in a better environment, but rebelled before they finished?

At first I was a bit annoyed that the creators went for Americans as the human slaves, but then I realised it makes sense: if the Skagarans want colonists for a planet that looks like the American West, then go to the American West to get people who can cope with it. Though they could have gone to Australia or the Sahara just as easily...maybe because the Americans were more advanced then the others? Or would that make them more likely to rebel?

Strangely the humans never refer to themselves as Americans, only as humans. The only time they seem to remember America specifically is when Archer mentions San Francisco and MacReady says he knows it was on the western seaboard. Maybe, as I said before, they forgot internal differences in their rebellion against the Skagarans. Maybe there are even black humans living equally with whites, but we didn't see any - and there might not have been any in the wagon train or whatever.

I think whoever wrote this episode has read both "Here there be dragons" by John Peel and "Excalibur: Restoration" by Peter David. The first deals with a technologically static group of 12 Middle Ages German villages plucked off Earth by the Preservers and deposited on another world; the second has Mackenzie Calhoun stranded on a primitive, alien but very American West-like planet where he constantly says he's "from up north" when anyone asks where he's from - just as Archer did in this episode. If so, at least the writers are reading good source books...

Oh, and while that shot of the planet from Enterprise's observation lounge (or whatever it was) was absolutely gorgeous - kudos to the creators - did anyone think it looked far too green and lush compared to what was seen on the surface? And they were definitely looking at the part that included Bethany's village, according to Archer.

Thande: Late in the episode Bethany or MacReady says that the humans were abducted 300 years ago (approximately 1853) which seems about right. Only earlier in the episode Trip and T'Pol said the ship wreckage was only 250 years old (1903).
Luigi Novi: When they say "the wreckage," it's possible that what they're dating is the point in time when the ship crashed or came under attack (perhaps by the rebel slaves). This did not have to occur during the same year that the humans were abducted. We don't even know if this is the ship that abducted them. The Skagarrans may have had many.

Luigi, read on and you'll see that I concur that the ship wreckage date could make sense if it took 50 years to reach the planet, or your explanation about it not being the ship that took the humans here also makes sense.

What DOESN'T make sense is that Trip thinks that 250 years before 2153, i.e. about 1903, is 'about right', i.e. he thinks that the humans on the planet look like they're from 1903 when they plainly aren't. I can't see Trip automatically assuming it took the ship 50 years to get there...it just sounds wrong.

Late in the episode Bethany or MacReady says that the humans were abducted 300 years ago (approximately 1853) which seems about right. Only earlier in the episode Trip and T'Pol said the ship wreckage was only 250 years old (1903). - Thande

First of all...

Wasn't it Reed who said the earliest structures on the planet were "over 250 years old," and that's when Trip comments, "That's about right"?

Later, when T'Pol scana the wreckage, she says that it's been there for "at least two centuries."

So what is factually wrong about any of this?

Ah...well, if he said Over, then I suppose that's all right.

OK, I just saw this episode. In 300 years, no human progress has been made from horses and guns?

Standard Classic Trek By The Numbers formula. Yawn.....

Harvey. Critical mass of knowledge. I discussed this over on one of the SG-1 boards. See my post of "December 30, 2003 - 12:20 am", on the Stargate SG-1:Season 3:Demons board.

The episode really makes no sense if you think about it. Shock - no development in 300 years? I'm surprised the humans could acheive the standard-of-living they had in the episode. Even if a wagonntrain was brought to the planet, they would have no manufacturing infrastructure to make anything. How are they manufacturing the guns and rifles? And their clothing? There is a cotton mill nearby? If not, why would the Skagarians not have destroyed the guns in the first place? How are they making new ammunition? Or glass? Or coffee pots? NO way all that stuff they have is 300 years old.

Where do you suppose they got all those things in the Old West? Not everything was delivered from the East (especially in remote regions or before the transcontinental railroad). There were plenty of skilled laborers in the West (it was practically a necessity). So why couldn't there be blacksmiths and seamstresses and carpenters among the people kidnapped by the Skagarans?

To anser this, there could have been blacksmiths and seamstresses kidnapped and brought to the planet. But where will the bl,acksmith get his tools? Or the anvil? How will he make steel for the guns? Where would the seamstress get her sewing apparatus? Or the needles? How about the glassmaker? Where is he getting the equipment?

There should still be the Skagaran tech & even if humans don't know how it works or how to use it, the Skagarans were still alive to interrogate about that.

I think it would have been interesting seeing a mix of old west & futurish looking stuff.

It's never stated just what the Skagarans took when they kidnapped the humans. Maybe they didn't limit their thievery to people... if, say, they took an entire wagon train, they could have taken all the humans' supplies with them.

Not to mention that the Skagarans probably provided some sort of supplies to the humans for a while.

I agree that there should have been a mix of technology... the humans using Skagaraan items in a manner they can understand. Maybe pieces of hull of the Skagaaran ships becomes the walls of buildings in some cases or the sheriff's badge! They take the Skagaaran's building materials manufacturing plant and use it to build structures they are familiar with out of "out of this world" materials.

Archer commented, "they took the wrong people". It is not to say that it's okay to enslave anyone but humans. What he meant is that the Skagaarans took a pioneering group of people who were plucky enough to fight back, rather than mild-mannered city folk or people from a more submissive culture. What if they'd picked up Chinese peasants who've endured centuries of assorted dynasties of non-democratic rule? Or Russian serfs?

What if they'd chosen Chief Sitting Bull and several Apache braves? Afghan hill people? They might have had fights on their hands the first day out from Earth!

It wasn't horrible, but it was pretty mediocre. Not really any memorable characters, a pretty predictable plot, and an uninteresing, and in some parts confusing, story. And hardly anything from Travis again.

I loved Reeds smirk to the gunman right after he stuns T'Pol. Awesome.

I wonder if we'll ever hear to this colony again.

BTW, that female MACO was a really good shot. She seemed to take out almost all of the guys that they were fighting.

KAM: Going through the Skagaran records Archer says, "They kidnapped the wrong people."
Sooooo, if they kidnapped the right people it would have been okay to enslave them?
I think he was implying that kidnapping a species that so aggressively resisted was not a good move.

Trike: Further, humans were captured 200 years before the episode and rebelled within 50 years or so. But what tools and equipment did they have after their rebellion? How difficult it must have been to reproduce their civilization on Earth so exactly.
Didn't they imply that the resistance succeeded within six months of arrival?

Luigi Novi: Why is the bartender in Act 1 missing the left half of his mustache?
I guess he's establishing himself as an individual. Telling the world he's unique and powerful because he is him.

Luigi Novi: Why is MacReady skeptical in Act 3 when Bennings tells him about Archer and Bethany’s beamout at the end of Act 2? MacReady knows that the Skagarans abducted his ancestors from Earth, and he even mentions to Archer about how the Skagarans had energy weapons, so if stories of their transporters exist, as Bennings indicates, why does MacReady think it’s a parlor trick?
He must be a Scully-esque skeptic. Plus, these guys have never even seen most Skagaran technology. That deputy must've mentioned at least two stories about how the Skag's "used to disapper into thin air" or kill with beams of light.

Thande: Strangely the humans never refer to themselves as Americans, only as humans. The only time they seem to remember America specifically is when Archer mentions San Francisco and MacReady says he knows it was on the western seaboard. Maybe, as I said before, they forgot internal differences in their rebellion against the Skagarans.
They weren't born there, they've never even seen it, so I could understand why they don't consider themselves Americans. Remember, the Sheriff didn't even think that Earth existed.

Alt. title: Captain Archer Meets John Wayne

I wasn't sure where to put this so, as it was the episode I have, literally, just finished watching, I thought I would write something here.

About six months ago I started watching "Enterprise" on dvd. I soon developed a habit.
I would watch the episode then come straight to NitC and read the nits. What I found was that I would immediately read what Richie said in his summary, then TUE (I LOVE the gradings.) and then the first of Luigi's posts. I'm struggling to see why this series is hated so much. As far as I can see the series has a much stronger sense of internal continuity than any of the previous series. I believe the crew are really well written and diverse, and at the moment I'm liking "Angry Archer" who's not afraid to kick in doors and use the airlocks as threatening.
I really like this Xindi arc and can't wait to find it's resolution.
Yeah, there have been clunkers (including this ep) but what Trek series hasn't had them? "Spock's Brain", "Shades Of Grey", "Profit And Lace", "Twisted" anyone?
The second habit I've developed is predicting what Luigi thought of the episode and then general Nit C-dom. Man I so can't pick them....
This one, I expected to see pages of "Yuck" or "Lame-o" comments and instead I get "Not Bad" and even an A- from TUE. I feel more inclined to agree with Luigi on this ep though.
The Borg ep is a classic one when I wondered what people on Nit-C were drinking when they posted. I loved the ep. Brilliantly written and paced. Probably better than 90% of the Voyager Borg eps. Linked "Q-Who" and "First Contact" nicely. My opinion of course....
Anyway, As I get through Season 3 and into Season 4 I'll post an update somewhere.
Sorry for the slightly O/T stray but wanted to get that off my chest.... Now where is that ep with Hoshi in the pink dress again....?

To Rod,

For starters, this series was "hated" so much because people expected it to tell the story of the romulan wars, the birth of the federation, and so forth. What it was in the first three seasons was mainly independant of the continuity set up in the other series. It's not so much that Enterprise has poor continuity with Enterprise, it's that Enterprise isn't following the continuity specified in the other series.

Another aspect I think people are tired of is not limited to Enterprise, but can be found within Voyager too. It's called Time Travel Plots. One thing you generally have when you deal with a time traveling episode is the need to use a big reset button in some form or another. Year of Hell from Voyager was like this. It was a good episode in my opinion, but it was obvious how it was going to turn out.

I agree about Time Travel plots. But let's face it, they were done to death by the time TOS ended. I guess the powers that be thought it was a natural avenue for sci-fi.

I believe there could be more to this discussion but it would be fairly OT so I will wait until I'm done watching the series before finishing this debate.

Oh- and I HATE being called Rod...

sorry, I was feeling lazy. It won't happen again...

I don't know if they were done to death by the end of TOS. TNG and DS9 did some good ones too.

I was hoping this episode had something to do with the freighter north star... but anyway...

I've never been shot in the shoulder so I may be wrong, but when Archer gets shot, I would think he'd be in agony to be moving around let alone kicking and hitting anyone. I'd think that hitting someone would still pull muscles in your back and would affect your wounded shoulder. Of course, I guess its a good thing that the bullet missed his artery.

Why didn't archer get his head wound healed before he came back down. If they could heal Bethany all the way, one would think they could heal Archers scratches.

I just thought of this... I don't know if its been mentioned.. probably has... anyway...

On every other star trek series, I would accept that they would be able to get some period clothing based on replicators or the abilities that would be found with in the mission of the original enterprise (TOS), but where did Archer and company get the clothing? This ship isn't on a mission of exploration, no replicators, nothing... Did they steal it? same with the equipment...

They have the resequencers which are apparently precursors to replicators. Taking one object and manipulating it at the molecular level to create other objects. They give a general explanation in Breaking the Ice.

but that's season one... how am I supposed to remember what happens in season 1!!!

...so do they have to have an object to manipulate and if so, what did they use? Let me guess, T'pol's clothes... (that explains why she only has a bunny suit)