Well, fortunately I was able to get into this without too much trouble after not having seen last week's episode. Is that good or bad? Anyway, I found this to be kind of a retro story, in that it harkened back to earlier days of Enterprise, when interesting ideas were comrpomised by the Plot Hole that Ate San Fransisco. Okay, the loops here weren't that bad, but the plot here was definitely not the most well thought out thing that this show has seen. Note: in my comments I'm going to refer to the past/future Enterprise as NX-01a.
Three things I liked:
1)The episode was punctuated with a lot of nice character moments throuought, particuarly the Trip/Lorian scene and the double T'Pol scene. Such moments will always score high in my book.
2) One thing that distinguished this ep from "Children of Time" was that it didn't get too cutesy with the "decendents of each crew member buisness," opting to instead give us that cute scene with Hoshi, Travis, and Reed.
3) Naming the NX-02 the Columbia was a nice touch.
Three things I didn't like:
1) Sooooooo, apparently you can beam out equipment from the Enterprise and it won't casue a whole lot of damage! The hell?
2) At one point in the big battle, Reed says that their "starboard engine" is being targeted? "Starboard engine"? Would that be the starboard nacelle?
3) So no one on either crew of the Enterprise managed to connect the dots that if they didn't go back in time, the NX-01a wouldn't exist? Neither of the T'Pols could figure it out? What?
Other notes:
My other big plot annoyance was that both crews seemed pretty dense about the whole "sending in both ships to fight the Whozits" idea. I knew that's what the end result was going to be halfway through the episode. Again, they couldn't figure this out earlier?
Hey, Rostov got a shout-out! Good to see he's still around.
Since when do Vulcans turn into zombies when they get older?
The crew of the NX-01a had 100+ years, and they still couldn't figure out how shields work?
Did Lorian remind anyone else of Elrond from Lord of the Rings?
So, if T'Pol was so set on having a Vulcan ceremony, who did she get to officiate it?
Apparently, the two Enterprises have similar armarments, but the NX-01a has obviously been tampering with their phasers, as they were blue. What sort of tinkering did they do that made their phasers blue but didn't make them better?
I know that the crew of the NX-01a probably didn't have the best life span, but does it seem like a stretch to anyone else that Karyn Archer is the great-grandaughter of the Captain? Maybe I'm wrong, but the math doesn't really work for me.
Lorian argues that Trip should be able to fashion new warp injectors relatively easily. If theirs are so old, why don't they make new ones?
Seems like Archer missed a novel chance when they initially went back in time- the timeline really would have gotten a kick in the pants if they had attempted to prevent the destruction of the Xindi homeworld.
Anyway, it was a solid effort, if not fully thought out. Grade: B. Next week: Hmmm, our crew vs. the repair station o' doom again? Er, probably not. But apparently T'Pol does start tunring into a lizard at some point in the next few episodes. Interesting.
HUMAN THINKING OF THE WEEK:
Hoshi tells Reed that with 1/3 of the crew female, there are bound to be bachelors. Well, Lorian tells Archer that Phlox has a lot of descendants. Presumably, this is because Phlox took multiple wives (as is the Denobulan custom). Why didn't some of the human women take more than one husband? Or, why couldn't Alt-Reed snag an alien babe like Alt-Archer apparently did?
LOUSY ALT-CREW OF THE WEEK:
If these Alternate Enterprise people have been tooling around the Expanse for several years, they presumably collected a lot of information on the Xindi. When their attempt to stop the probe failed, why didn't they immediately contact Archer? If Archer had been given vital Xindi information early on, it might have changed the Enterprise's mission dramatically. They might have had the whole thing fixed up by now.
SHORTCUT OF THE WEEK:
Why did Degra even leave Archer behind last week? Archer shows up at the end of the episode and there's Degra sitting there happy as a clam. Why didn't Archer just follow Degra using whatever means he used to get there? "The Forgotten" clearly shows the Enterprise following Degra into one of the spatial vorteces. Did Degra need time to set out the fine china?
FORGOTTEN ILLNESS OF THE WEEK:
So I guess T'Pol's Panar Syndrome turns out to be non-fatal. I suppose Alt-T'Pol may have had it cured at some point. If she did, it sure would have been nice to pass that information onto our T'Pol.
OVERALL OPINION OF THE WEEK:
After a string of really really solid shows, this one seemed to pack a bit less of a punch. I still liked it a lot, but it just wasn't as good as the last three episodes. The meeting of the T'Pols was excellent. I also liked the Lorian character. He was very interesting and interacted well with Trip, T'Pol, and Archer. I hope we do see this crew again.
TUE
TUE wrote: "The Forgotten" clearly shows the Enterprise following Degra into one of the spatial vorteces. Did Degra need time to set out the fine china?
I was baffled by that, too, until I realized that NX-01 follows Degra into cloaking field zone surrounding Sphere, not spatial vortex.
How can T'Pol know how far they travelled if the stars are not where they are supposed to be? What landmarks (spacemarks?) did she use to determine the distance?
T'Pol says, "Humans & Vulcans have never been able to mate." Well, ignoring Trip & T'Pol's sex scene how many Vulcans & Humans have tried? Fusion & some other episodes indicated that Humans & Vulcans didn't know much of each others sexual practices.
Old T'Pol tells T'Pol, "the emotions you've accessed". This nit should go in the first episode that mentioned accessing emotions. But what is with accessing emotions? Vulcans are not computers, they don't have hidden programs that have to be accessed, they have emotions which they suppress.
TUE - Well, Lorian tells Archer that Phlox has a lot of descendants. Presumably, this is because Phlox took multiple wives (as is the Denobulan custom)
I thought Karyn said that Phlox & Amanda had many kids.
why couldn't Alt-Reed snag an alien babe like Alt-Archer apparently did?
Don't you see all the jokes & rumors on the internet? Reed is gay, Gay, GAY!!! He probably liked being surrounded by all those bachelors. ;-)
On the other hand maybe he did hook up with an alien babe, but they couldn't produce children?
What if 'our' NX-01 failed again & went back in time again?
Would there be yet another NX-01? It might be slightly different, in that Reed would get a wife.
And wouldn't the other NX-01 know that two plans failed?
The point being: the fact that there is only one NX-01 in the past might prove that the second attempt succeeded.
Before we saw Her, I had the theory that NX-01 would go back in time & would realize that they destroyed Xindi homeworld in another reality.
why couldn't Alt-Reed snag an alien babe like Alt-Archer apparently did?
Don't you see all the jokes & rumors on the internet? Reed is gay, Gay, GAY!!! He probably liked being surrounded by all those bachelors. ;-)
...
Considering the supposed "progressiveness" of the future, I'm surprised they didn't even bring up the possibility. Or, what if he'd found out he hooked up with "Lieutenant Extra", and that Extra was male?
Every time I heard "Lorian" I kept thinking "Lothlorien", so there may be a reason Sparrow47 thought of elves.
It might have been nice to see T'Pol mindmeld with herself.
I loved the shot of the Enterprise(s) splitting apart, taking the enemies by surprise. That being said, it would have been nice to see up front the alt-Enterprise approaching and docking with its predecessor. We just got a static shot after the break.
Was this the shortest teaser ever?
"What goes around..." So, Archer, how do you like having your important stuff stolen? (And didn't alt-Ent have a transporter? They had a tractor beam, and also 100+ years to acquire new, improved tech. Not everyone else in the universe was at the same tech level as Earth.)
Sparrow47: Leaving aside the fact that we know nothing about the reproductive cycles of the aliens in Karyn Archer's family tree, I don't think there's anything implausible about Archer having an adult great-grandchild after 117 years. Assuming a (very conservative) average generational age of 30 years, Archer (if he “started” immediately) could have a great-grandchild in 60 years, who would be an adult within 90. If anything, we need to explain why Karyn is so young (or not of a later generation). Chalk it up to (1) Phlox fudging how distant a relative Karyn really is, (2) longer reproductive cycles among her alien ancestors and/or (3) ordinary “human” explanations -- late bloomers, youngest child of a big family, that sort of thing.
Speaking of age, did anyone else find Old T'Pol really ... well, OLD and feeble, even for a 140+ Vulcan? Unless T'Pol is much older than we know, I would have thought that' she would have held up better after “only” 117 years. Sarek was looking pretty robust at what I assume was a much older age. Degenerative effects of Pa’nar Syndrome, perhaps?
Influx: I was actually surprised that Lorien didn't try to justify his theft of NX-01's plasma injectors to Archer by pointing out that he (Archer) had made exactly the same choice, and for the same reason, in “Damage.” Perhaps Archer fudged the facts in his mission log, or maybe Lorien just wasn't comfortable pointing an accusatory finger at his mentor?
Ordinarily, I’d be annoyed at the hamfisted way this episode danced around the time paradox problems. In this case, though, I’m pleased that TPTB left open the possibility that Lorien and his crew survived (somehow) both the alteration of the timeline and the alien attack. (Who would have guessed that they would have resisted the urge to show us “an” Enterprise getting blown up in battle?) The alt-Enterprise crew’s interactions with “our” crew generated some great character moments. I wouldn’t mind seeing them again.
Since when do Vulcans turn into zombies when they get older?
DMW has part of it, I think (Pa'nar Syndrome) and perhaps also, the long-term effects of Trellium-D abuse, along with the release (instead of control) of emotions.
The Seventh and Fusion indicate that T'Pol is older than she looks... I'd peg her at about 45 (Vulcans age slower). Even so, 162 shouldn't be that decrepit. Sarek was right around 200 before he started to deteriorate, and that was a result of Bendii syndrome. He looked old, but not decrepit in Sarek(TNG).
Who would have guessed that they would have resisted the urge to show us “an” Enterprise getting blown up in battle?
True, but it was strongly implied. IIRC, both nacelle struts were buckling the last time we saw them.
True, but it was strongly implied. IIRC, both nacelle struts were buckling the last time we saw them.
No question that alt-Enterprise’s destruction was strongly implied. But TPTB have shown time and again that they just love the spectacle of Enterprise, Voyager, etc. actually blowing up all over the screen (and then cramming that shot into a deceptive preview). (I don’t recall -- did we ever see DS9 go kablooey?)
The fact that we didn’t actually SEE alt-Enterprise meet its doom, together with T’Pol’s closing question to Archer, suggests to me that somebody realized (maybe at the end of the day) that they’d created a pretty fun toy that they might want to play with again some time.
If you don’t see the body, you don’t know it’s dead (and maybe not even then).
Visionary (DS9)
Although they managed to avoid going back 100+ years on this trip through the vortex, did they possibly have a close call and slip back maybe a day or several hours? I'm wondering if this is the reason Degra said they were early.
Does Archer have any command codes for Yesterday's Enterprise? 
I was expecting Archer to disable the other Enterprise to get his stuff back.
I guess we were reeding too much into it.
Speaking of Reed not getting married; He seemed to make a pass at another crew-woman. Are TPTB setting up a character change besides our emotional Vulcan Sybok... I mean T'Pol.
One more thing... well, maybe more than one...
Does Archer have the new technology from his wife's species? Will Enterprise be going at warp 6.## in short intervals making Soval even more irritated to say nothing of his reaction to T'Pol?
What new plotlines and character developments will be used in season 4?*
*Don't tell if you know for certain, I was looking for guesses and things to think about.
Does Archer have the new technology from his wife's species? Will Enterprise be going at warp 6.## in short intervals making Soval even more irritated to say nothing of his reaction to T'Pol?
Nice point. If Lorian and his crew were serious about their mission, you'd think that Priority #2 -- right after stopping Enterprise from entering the vortex "unprotected" -- would be to ensure that Archer and his crew had the benefit of the alt-Ent's 117 years of experience in the Expanse -- all the alien and/or upgraded technology, potential allies and sources of supplies, peoples and places to avoid. A really, really good map of the Expanse.
Granted that retrofitting Enterprise for the trip through the vortex looked like a full time job. But Lorian et al. have known since the launch of the Xindi probe that they would be meeting up with Archer. Plenty of time to put together a set of useful schematics, maps, etc. to hand over at their first meeting. “No time for this now, but you’ll want to look these over later.”
Which gets us back to TUE’s point -- where the heck has alt-Ent been for the last year? It's not as though Lorian had to go hunting for Enterprise. He should have detailed logs of exactly where Enterprise was\had been ever since entering the Expanse. Why show up now, moments before Enterprise enters the vortex? Is the Expanse that big? Was the launch site of the probe that far away? Was traffic really bad?
Another thought\question. Lorian described alt-Ent as a “generational ship.” The implication was that it was the (literal) home of “our” crew's descendants. Children playing in the corridors seemed to confirm that. But that's neither sensible nor practical. Even with strict self-imposed rules about reproduction -- and Phlox and his nine children seem to rule that out -- pure population growth would outstrip alt-Ent's capacity very quickly. Heck, crew quarters are pretty cramped right now. And why expose children, the elderly, etc. to the rigors of space travel (or to this particular dangerous mission)?
Wouldn't it make more sense to set up a colony somewhere on a nice uninhabited planet (a la Twilight)? The Xindi of 100 years ago wouldn't be hunting for you, and there are regions of the Expanse where the Xindi are unknown even in Archer's time, so keeping a low profile shouldn't be that hard. Use the alt-Ent for trading, training, etc., but let the rest of the colony live normal lives planetside.
So -- maybe there's a planet of Enterprise descendants out there?
Sorry -- didn't intend to write a novel.
(Paraphrasing from a 25-year-old memory...)
Baltar: Haha, Galactica! I have you now!!
Cylon (looks out window): Perhaps we should attend to the "other" Battlestar.
Baltar: Other Battlestar?! What?!!
(Lloyd Bridges' Battlestar comes swooping in to the rescue.)
I have the feeling we may be seeing the alt-Enterprise-NX01a in a "nick of time" moment. Not that I would mind...
Archer calls engineering and, when no one answers, transmits "RESPOND."
I hadn't heard that one this season, and I assumed that someone had finally set the writers straight. Apparently not.
The franchise-wide "RESPOND" may be the dumbest radio protocol ever. It grates on the trained ear. You're calling someone on your net. Do you think he's screening calls? If he doesn't answer, he's either not receiving or not transmitting. Repeat your contact call; try another frequency; try another radio; send your traffic in the blind; or send "nothing heard, out." But enough already with the "RESPOND." You're killing me here.
Guess I never realized that before. For me now it will probably stand out as clearly as the "Hail them!" and "No response!" reply after about 1 second.
Actually, I remember before the show started, that Jolene Blalock mentioned that T'Pol was supposed to be in her 60's.
Well, then she's around 180, which is elderly for a Vulcan, but she looks like h*ll. I chalk it up to Trellium-D abuse and lack of emotional control.
Of course, some people just age more gracefully than others, too.
I,m suprised Daniel didn't show up, given the time travel nature of this episode. He wasn't even metioned.
Well, it sure shows that NX-01a is ship full of our "intrepid" crew descendants... Of all possible ways of peventing Xindi attack they sure picked the worst possible one. I mean, outside of finding as many Xindi as possible and telling them "We're bid bad earthlings and in 500 years we will destroy your species! Muahaha!" I can't think of any way to make situation worse.
Let's assume for a second that NX-01a was succesful with destroying the probe.
So, what Xindi are going to do? The most sensible way is to send another one, wouldn't you say? And this probe will most likely accomplish its mission, sicne NX-01a will no longer have the advantage of knowing where and when wait for it.
So, basically, we'll be right where we started, with 7 million dead, etc. The only difference is that there will be less time to react before big probe is completed.
And that's the most optimistic scenario.
What is the most pessimistic one? Suppose that Xindi are not going to bother with another probe and will send final version instead? We are going to have repeat of the "Twilight", but this time it'll be for real.
I think this episode nicely shows how little time our intrepid producers spend with developing new plots.
NX-02 Columbia is a nice touch, though...
Old T'Pol offered young T'Pol chamomile tea. Even if they had built a hydroponics garden, who would have planned taking flower seeds along on the original mission?
So, basically, we'll be right where we started, with 7 million dead, etc. The only difference is that there will be less time to react before big probe is completed.- Kazeite
Except that they'll know there is a threat out there. And, much like Archer is doing with the Weapon, they might be able to stop the Xindi before they go through with their plan.
I mean, are you saying that had our government figured out the 9/11 attacks beforehand that they shouldn't have intervened because, hey, the terrorists would have come up with another plan and probably been more secretive about it? Why the 9/11 panel, then?
Darth Sarcasm wrote: Except that they'll know there is a threat out there.
And they will send NX-01 to react, yes, but they will have less time to find the weapon.
I mean, are you saying that had our government figured out the 9/11 attacks beforehand that they shouldn't have intervened because, hey, the terrorists would have come up with another plan and probably been more secretive about it? Why the 9/11 panel, then?
No, I'm saying that going after the probe would've delayed actual response, while Xindi happily finish their actual weapon (whose existace is not a mere possibility.)
Watching this ep I thought once again of that old paradox: If Yesterday's Enterprise(!) succeeds in warning off Today's, then Yesterday's timeline won't exist - and consequently, Today's will end up flying right into the time trap anyway.
And I thought Captain Half Vulcan Boy's ears were too big and too _pointy_; I'd've thought they'd've resembled those of that guy from TNG's The Drumhead. Speaking of HBV: So Mommy and Daddy needed a little help from Dr Gerard (I call him that because he reminds me of Barry Morse's detective in The Fugitive)? That's news to me.
"Every time I heard 'Lorian' I kept thinking 'Lothlorien'." And _I_ was thinking: Are we closer to Tick or closer to Tock?
And if Twilight was a T & Aer's Heaven, _this_ ep _had_ to be Hell.
And that's the bottom line...if you smell what I'm cooking.
Remember Spock's ears are fully pointed too.
Good point. Seriously.
More Nits!!!
T'Pol! This thing is some -200 years old!
The clothing worn by the crew of the Alt-Enterprise seems to be very similar to some from TNG and DS9, and I mean very similar. Fortunatly, I purchased the Season 6 of DS9 and what strange thing did I discover...
Lorian's vest is the same vest worn by Jake Sisko in Sacrifice of Angels (DS9). It is most noticeable when Jake Sisko is in the brig during the jail break scene.
Also, the coat of the Alt-tactical officer seems to be a modified version of Picards coat that he used in TNG. The coat he wore in that Darmok episode.
How's that for nitpicking!
Darth Sarcasm wrote: Except that they'll know there is a threat out there.
And they will send NX-01 to react, yes, but they will have less time to find the weapon. -Kazeite
You're assuming that the NX-01A would destroy the probe, then do nothing else. Since they know that the larger weapon was being constructed, and they know where the main weapon was being built, they likely would attack the main weapon next. I would also assume that they would contact Earth and advise them of the threat.
So having been sent back in time 117 years why didn't Archer's crew focus on those spheres that's changing space? They know that's a threat as well.
And I thought Captain Half Vulcan Boy's ears were too big and too _pointy_; I'd've thought they'd've resembled those of that guy from TNG's The Drumhead. - Stone Cold
Except the character from The Drumhead was only one quarter Romulan. Furthermore, even on Earth today, siblings of mixed parents don't always show the same physical characteristics. In an African-American/Caucasian family, one brother may show the features of one parent, while the other brother has the features of another. Finally, as ScottN pointed out, Spock had fully-pointed ears, too.
I wonder if Lorian ever considered taking the NX-01-A out of the Expanse, say 5 to 20 years before the Xindi attack, go to Earth to warn everyone of the impending attack? It would have given both Earth and Starfleet time to develop some kind of defence against the probe, or at the very least send a few upgraded ships into the Expanse to somehow head off the attack, diplomaticlly or otherwise. Sure, the timeline would be disrupted, but think of the seven million lives that would have been spared!
Well, as Archer learned in the Shockwave two-parter, a small disruption in the timeline could have unpredictable, devastating consequences.
One could argue that destroying the Xindi probe before it hit Earth would also be a disruption of the timeline, except that the Xindi attack was already a disruption of the timeline, according to Future Guy.
One could argue that destroying the Xindi probe before it hit Earth would also be a disruption of the timeline, except that the Xindi attack was already a disruption of the timeline, according to Future Guy.
Exactly! Having Lorian go to Earth prior to the attack could be one possible way of restoring the proper timeline (that is of course, if what Daniels told Archer is correct about having no record of a Xindi attack!) You can give yourself such a headache trying to think of all the possible sceniros involved in time travel episodes!
No... giving Earth knowledge of future history (or potential future history) and having them upgrade their defenses to destroy the probe would not restore the timeline... it would create a new timeline.
The only way to restore the proper timeline is to prevent the probe from attacking Earth without Earth knowing about it... which is what they tried to do.
I liked this episode. Like "Doctor's Orders" it was basically a remake of a previous episode (this time "Children of Time" but a superior remake.
Furthermore I liked the way they finally gave a scene to Travis, Hoshi & Reed.
Re the blue phase cannons: I don't think those were the phase cannons. The future Enterprise clearly fired normal orange phase beams from the right location, but also those blue beams from other locations. So in other words they were alien weapons that had been grafted on. The real nit is why Reed thought they were evenly matched when it's blindingly obvious that the future Enterprise has all sorts of extra stuff welded to the outside.
They did the future Enterprise well, with messy patches over the wounds of the present Enterprise and extra technology stuck on willy-nilly. It was quite weird watching the two docked together and seeing the same damage pattern on each, but with the future Enterprise having 100 years of amateurish repairs.
Looking forward to next week's show...
They did the future Enterprise well, with messy patches over the wounds of the present Enterprise and extra technology stuck on willy-nilly. It was quite weird watching the two docked together and seeing the same damage pattern on each, but with the future Enterprise having 100 years of amateurish repairs.
Which provides another nit. They've had 100 years to find a friendly drydock, and haven't done so? If nothing else, they know where the "evil repair station" (Dead Stop) is. I find it hard to believe that in 100 years they couldn't get some competent repairs done.
ScottN: The Evil Repair Station (great label, btw) is at least 3 months away at warp 5, probably more (remember, it was near the Romulan border); the future Enterprise's warp injectors were failing; and they probably wanted to avoid contaminating the timeline in case somebody saw them.
I liked the way they tied up those hints about the Xindi pestering Archer about more than one Starfleet ship in the Expanse, too.
Probably the biggest nit I have with the whole Xindi arc is: why did they send that first probe to kill 7 million people? They keep describing it as a 'test', but why not just test it on a dead planetoid as in Proving Ground? As it is, they use that first small probe to give humans lots of hints about them (tech from the future, etc.) and enough time to go after them. Why not just wait another year then launch the big probe at Earth and destroy it in a single strike?
Their current plan seems like the USA dropping a 'prototype' A-bomb that just destroyed a few city blocks on Hiroshima in 1944, then following up with the big one in 1945; the Japanese'd have had some time to prepare and try and base a defence around the idea that just one bomb can be devastating (which of course caught them completely offguard in the way it happened). NB I know this analogy makes no sense because you can't really have a small-scalle A-bomb, but bear with me here.
The only reason I can think of is a political one (i.e. the Primates launched the prototype probe to assuage the Reptilians who were impatient to build a bioweapon instead, etc.)
the future Enterprise's warp injectors were failing;
They were failing after 100 years of (ab)use. Surely somewhere during that century they could have found a drydock.
or make a new one.
Archer stole an alien species and made it fit so nicely so I would think that in 100 years they could build one from scratch. Probably out of components of the mess hall.
"Considering the supposed "progressiveness" of the future, I'm surprised they didn't even bring up the possibility. Or, what if he'd found out he hooked up with "Lieutenant Extra", and that Extra was male?"
Because thats not Reed's character. We've seen him mention girlfriends on occasion. We haven't seen anything on the show that says that Reed is gay. I don't count the supposed double meanings in some of his lines. By that, we could argue that nearly all the characters were gay. Having said that, it would be interesting to see a gay character on Trek. If its done right. It would be too easy to turn him or her into a caricature.
Theres a gay character on Star Trek? Wow, glad I'm not watching that!
Heres a really creative idea. Make the gay guy the villian, thats a plot twist nobody will expect and you won't see on any other show.
---Critique:
---A respectable visit back to the premise of Children of Time(DS9), and like Twilight, the use of it during the Xindi did allow it to feel new, but despite the enjoyable gimmick of learning of the crew’s descendants, it lacked the vital moral question posed by Children of Time, and degenerated into Silly Gratuitious ActionTM by the fourth Act. Admittedly, the Trip/T’Pol material did make up a bit for it, as did the scenes with the elder T’Pol.
---There’s nothing wrong with reusing a time-honored premise. Certain premises lend themselves to repeated exploration of various themes and ideas. Twlight’s use of showing an aged character in the future is a good example. The problem here is that this episode totally glosses over the moral questions posed by having to undo a timeline that bore an entire line of descendants, never mentioning it once until the very end, as if no one considers it.
---This isn’t to say that the episode doesn’t have some good character elements. The crew’s discovery of their future descendants in Act 3 was nicely done. The scene with Trip and Lorian in the opening scene of the Act 3 was good. There was genuine pain projected by both David Andrews and Connor Trineer as their characters pondered a future in which their father and son relationship would be cut short, and the accompanying music was dead-on. The manner in which the crew marveled at the descendants they left behind was fun to watch, and I’m glad that the creators didn’t paint an entirely rosy picture, leaving Reed to have sadly died alone, which given his personality as a stiff loner, certainly rings true, and his attempt to strike up a conversation with an attractive blonde at the end of that scene was the perfect note to end it on.
---The best aspect of the episode characterwise was the continuing relationship between Trip and T’Pol, and how the presence of the elder T’Pol in the story provided a new insight into it, a nice compliment to Similitude, in which it was an alternate Trip that provided T’Pol with greater insight into Trip’s feelings for her.
---The episode was nicely filmed, and the use of the strobe effect during Lorian’s narration of the events in his past/Archer’s future in Act 2 was a nice creative decision. The interaction of the two T’Pol’s was convincing, and the battle between the Enterprises and the Kovaalans in Act 5 had a nice sense of urgency, with the shot of the second Enterprise revealing itself underneath the first when the Kovaalans initially attacked quite gratifying.
---Personally, while E2 isn’t the worst of the esoteric episode titles to come out of the Trek office during the production of Voyager and Enterprise, I think Tomorrow’s Enterprise might’ve been a nice alternative, and a nice titular compliment to Yesterday’s Enterprise(TNG), which showed us an antecedant Enterprise.
---Notes:
---It appears that the Teaser and Five-Act episode structure has returned.
---We see a new Xindi ship (probably a Humanoid one) for the first time in the third scene of Act 1.
---Continuity Nods:
It is established by Reed and Archer near the end of Act 1 that one of the NX-class ships under construction is the Columbia, a precursor to the 23rd Century vessels established in The Cage(TOS) and Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
---Terms:
Lorian The half human, half Vulcan Captain of the Enterprise that was thrown back in time 117 years, who speaks with the future T’Pol in the teaser, and introduces himself by name to Archer in the closing scene of Act 1. He reveals he is T’Pol’s son in the opening scene of Act 2, and Phlox determines that Trip is his father in the second and last scene of Act 2.
Kovaalans Race of aliens whose presence in the nebula that Reed mentions Degra wanred them of in the Command Center in the second scene of Act 1. Reed mentions that Degra said that there were one or two ships in the nebula, but T’Pol says there are at least half a dozen.
Columbia Starfleet NX-class ship, registry NX-02, which Reed speculates is the NX-class ship that appears before them near the end of Act 1.
Karyn Archer Lorian’s wife, whom Lorian introduces to Archer in the closing scene of Act 1. Phlox determines that she is Archer’s great-granddaughter in the second and last scene of Act 2.
Haradin traders People from which Lorian says they acquired advanced propulsion technology in the opening scene of Act 2.
Amanda The woman with whom Karyn Archer tells Archer in the second scene of Act 3 Phlox produced many children.
Ikaaran The race to which Karyn Archer’s mother belonged, as she mentions to Captain Archer in the second scene of Act 3.
Esilia The Ikaaran woman Jonathan Archer married in the other Enterprise’s history, whose ship Karyn Archer tells Captain Archer he rescued from an anomaly field.
Toru Hoshi’s son, one of the two children, one of the two children she tells Travis in Act 3 that she bore in the other Enterprise’s history.
Yoshiko Hoshi’s daughter, one of the two children she tells Travis in Act 3 that she bore in the other Enterprise’s history.
Greer Lorian’s lieutenant, who first speaks in the final scene of Act 3 and is named in the second scene of Act 4 during the plasma injector theft.
isomagnetic collector Device used to absorb residual particles from a ship’s particle wake, which the elder T’Pol tells her younger counterpart in the second scene of Act 5 they picked up from the Ikaarans, and which she prescribes for her counterpart’s Enterprise in order to traverse the subspace corridor safely.
Reed read about them in Alien Pirate Weekly. (They themselves were profiled two weeks ago.)
At the end of the previous episode, Degra merely mentioned “aliens” who prey upon ships in the nebula to which the Enterprise is headed in the beginning of this episode, without mentioning anything about the species, their technology, or even their name, but in the second scene of Act 1 in this episode, they know that they’re called Kovaalans, and Reed mentions that Degra told them how many ships there were in the nebula.
Luckily, they modified their engines to run on icy bitchiness. After hooking them up to T’Pol’s bridge station, they nearly broke the Warp 10 barrier.
In the opening scene of Act 1, T’Pol says it’s unlikely that the other Enterprise has been flying around the Expanse for 117 years because Enterprise does not have the fuel or provisions for such a long journey. Why does it not occur to her that they managed to purchase or manufacture these things during that time from the various planets and other species they encountered? Use your imagination, T’Pol.
Live long and screw up a sure thing
Lorian says that they were unable to stop the first Xindi attack on Earth because in the end, they were only one ship, and that their weapons were no match for the Xindi. This makes no sense. First of all, in the 117-year head start they had, they could’ve acquired more ships to create a convoy, even a small one, manned by the expanding family of the Enterprise, in part by using the technology they had, which would probably have been far more advanced than that of most of the other species in the Expanse, including the Xindi. They could go to any planet with dilithium, pergium, anti-matter facilities, or anything they needed and either stolen, purchased or manufactured what they needed. During the battle in Act 4, Reed and T’Pol indicate that both ships have the same compliment of weapons, and are evenly matched, but that’s bogus. Couldn’t all those best and brightest in Starfleet, and their descendants, have acquired and/or developed more sophisticated technology in the intervening 117 years? Didn’t they do just this with the isomagentic collector and the tractor emitters, to name two examples?
---Given this huge advantage, they could’ve easily have prevented the Xindi from even building the first Probe. Hell, they could’ve befriended the Xindi of 117 years ago, possibly either in the middle of or before the century-long Xindi Civil War that was established in The Shipment, and possibly even prevented the Reptilians and the Insectoids from detonating the explosions that devastated their home planet. Lorian tells T’Pol they formed alliances with other species for provisions and fuel. So why didn’t they make those alliances with the Xindi-Humanoids, Arboreals, Aquatics and Avians, thus not only preventing or ending the Civil War, but telling them to watch out for this psycho Sphere-Builder chick that would come calling to tell them all sorts of lies about their peaceful and generous human allies? Are all the Vulcan behavioral genes Lorian inherited from T’Pol dormant, and he inherited his leadership abilities from Trip, whom The Seventh established was incompetent?
Sure saves money on funeral costs
If Lorian’s mission is successful, and the Enterprise is not thrown back in time, Lorian and probably most of the people on his ship will cease to have ever existed. This was a major point of conflict that was explored in Children of Time(DS9), an episode with the same premise, but which this episode barely even mentions. The only time it is is when Archer and T’Pol do so near the end of Act 5. In fact, it’s as if no one on Lorian’s Enterprise even realizes this is the case, because at the end of Act 4, Karyn tells Lorian that they can’t kill Archer’s crew because they’re family, never mentioning that they can’t kill them because it’ll destroy their own existence. Or is Lorian and everyone on his ship okay hunkey-dorey with ceasing to exist by being wiped from history?
Kids. They’re never interested in the stories their parents tell.
In Act 3, Lorian tells Trip that he learned everything about Engineering from Trip’s logs. Obviously, he must’ve only skimmed them, because in the final scene of Act 3, he tells Karyn and another crewman that they will steal the plasma injectors from Archer’s Enterprise, and that Archer’s crew will be okay because Trip is a resourceful engineer, and will fabricate new ones, despite the fact that in A Night in Sickbay, when the Enterprise was shy a few injectors, Archer had to grovel in front of the Kreestassans to get a few, and that wasn’t after the Enterprise was horrifically damaged as it was at the end of Azati Prime, indicating that they lacked the ability to manufacture them even when the ship was operating under otherwise optimal conditions. Besides, why can’t Lorian’s Enterprise fabricate new injectors? Why is it that his ship is filled with new and modified technology, from the yellow lights in the corridors, to those lit-up columns on the bridge, to the isomagnetic collector and tractor beam, but somehow he can’t make new injectors? If Trip is such a resourceful engineer, and Lorian learned everything from his logs, why can’t Lorian do what he suggests Trip can?
Yes, but since they’re all Denobulans, and are all polygamous, they never have time to leave their quarters
In the opening scene of Act 5, Archer tells Lorian that Phlox says the injuries on both ships were minor. What, he had to treat both ships? Why? Doesn’t Lorian’s Enterprise have its own doctors?
Sparrow47: apparently you can beam out equipment from the Enterprise and it won't casue a whole lot of damage! The hell?
Luigi Novi: They beamed out equipment that they knew would cause power failures. Why would it necessarily cause damage?
Sparrow47: At one point in the big battle, Reed says that their "starboard engine" is being targeted? "Starboard engine"? Would that be the starboard nacelle?
Luigi Novi: I believe the nacelles have sometimes been referred to as engines.
Sparrow47: Apparently, the two Enterprises have similar armarments, but the NX-01a has obviously been tampering with their phasers, as they were blue. What sort of tinkering did they do that made their phasers blue but didn't make them better?
Luigi Novi: They maintained them over the decades by acquiring and adapting alien components that made them this way.
Sparrow47: I know that the crew of the NX-01a probably didn't have the best life span, but does it seem like a stretch to anyone else that Karyn Archer is the great-grandaughter of the Captain? Maybe I'm wrong, but the math doesn't really work for me.
Luigi Novi: How can you work out any math if we don’t know what the typical lifespan of Ikaarans are, or how much Karyn favors the Ikaaran portion (and/or other alien components) of her genes? We don’t even know how many different alien races she received her genes from.
TUE: Hoshi tells Reed that with 1/3 of the crew female, there are bound to be bachelors. Well, Lorian tells Archer that Phlox has a lot of descendants. Presumably, this is because Phlox took multiple wives (as is the Denobulan custom).
Luigi Novi: It’s because Phlox and “Amanda” produced many offspring, as Karyn told Archer in Act 3. Whether Phlox took other wives is possible, but unknown.
TUE: Why didn't some of the human women take more than one husband?
Luigi Novi: Why would the human women have taken more than one husband?
TUE: Or, why couldn't Alt-Reed snag an alien babe like Alt-Archer apparently did?
Luigi Novi: We don’t know how many other people were a part of Esilia’s ship. Moreover, depending on human lifespans in 2150’s (adjusted for the imperfect living conditions on Lorian’s Enterprise given what that ship had been through by the time it went through the subspace corridor), and given Reed’s age, he may not have had many more years to find someone to couple with, particularly if he died not long after the time displacement as Trip did.
TUE: So I guess T'Pol's Panar Syndrome turns out to be non-fatal. I suppose Alt-T'Pol may have had it cured at some point.
Luigi Novi: Or, she and Phlox have been managing it through the same means T’Pol has been using up until now, much as Magic Johnson has been doing with his condition.
KAM: Old T'Pol tells T'Pol, "the emotions you've accessed". This nit should go in the first episode that mentioned accessing emotions. But what is with accessing emotions? Vulcans are not computers, they don't have hidden programs that have to be accessed, they have emotions which they suppress.
Luigi Novi: Is the word so inappropriate, even as a metaphor?
Influx: Was this the shortest teaser ever?
Luigi Novi: No. Scorpion partI(VOY) holds the record at 20 seconds.
DMW: Speaking of age, did anyone else find Old T'Pol really ... well, OLD and feeble, even for a 140+ Vulcan? Unless T'Pol is much older than we know, I would have thought that' she would have held up better after “only” 117 years. Sarek was looking pretty robust at what I assume was a much older age. Degenerative effects of Pa’nar Syndrome, perhaps?
Luigi Novi: Or the fact that Sarek takes place 200 years later, when medical science makes lifespans longer?
TJFleming: Archer calls engineering and, when no one answers, transmits "RESPOND." You're calling someone on your net. Do you think he's screening calls? If he doesn't answer, he's either not receiving or not transmitting. Repeat your contact call; try another frequency; try another radio; send your traffic in the blind; or send "nothing heard, out."
Luigi Novi: Why would there be more than one frequency used in intraship communication? Or other radios? And what’s “in the blind”?
Kazeite: So, what Xindi are going to do? The most sensible way is to send another one, wouldn't you say?
Luigi Novi: Not if the Enterprise destroyed their industrial base decades earlier.
Vicki: Old T'Pol offered young T'Pol chamomile tea. Even if they had built a hydroponics garden, who would have planned taking flower seeds along on the original mission?
Luigi Novi: Chef. That’s presumably one of his responsibilities.
Torque: the coat of the Alt-tactical officer seems to be a modified version of Picards coat that he used in TNG. The coat he wore in that Darmok episode.
Luigi Novi: I don’t seen any similarities between the two. Greer’s looks like it’s made out of a smooth material like leather or plastic, whereas Picard’s looked like it was made out of suede. Greer’s is dark gray, whereas Picard’s was command red, with a smooth black material covering the shoulders. Greer’s has no sleeves, whereas Picard’s did. Greer’s vest has some type of rectangular padding on the front sections, whereas Picard’s did not.
You were right about Jake’s vest, though.
Thande: Re the blue phase cannons: I don't think those were the phase cannons. The future Enterprise clearly fired normal orange phase beams from the right location, but also those blue beams from other locations. So in other words they were alien weapons that had been grafted on.
Luigi Novi: Or, they might’ve been other phase cannons that were blue. Lasers have various colors. Why not phasers?
Thande: The real nit is why Reed thought they were evenly matched when it's blindingly obvious that the future Enterprise has all sorts of extra stuff welded to the outside.
Luigi Novi: The future Enterprise should have advantages derived from its 117-year headstart. We have no idea what the stuff on the outside is.
Ikaaran sounds really familiar.... is it from another episode or movie?
I don't think so...the closest match I can think of is Iyaaran from Liaisons (TNG).
And I think it's most likely, given Reed's occupation, that he was killed in a combat action before he found a partner. Though he never specifies the exact circumstances in the episode.
Oh, and re a couple of Luigi's nits above:
Luigi Novi: If Lorian’s mission is successful, and the Enterprise is not thrown back in time, Lorian and probably most of the people on his ship will cease to have ever existed.
Me: Well, yes, people of Janeway's era, and maybe Kirk's, would know this, but how would Archer or Lorian? Archer's crew has had only limited experience with time travel, and Lorian's has had none (apart from T'Pol, who doesn't believe in it ). My point is that no-one in this era knows how time works in the Trekverse (assuming all the time-changing phenomena we've seen over the years have a consistent pattern). We know that the Vulcans think time travel is impossible and humans, up till now, have only speculated about it - so how would anyone guess that Lorian and co might be erased from history until T'Pol does some logical speculation at the end? Reading lots of vintage sci-fi novels?
Luigi Novi: So why didn’t they make those alliances with the Xindi-Humanoids, Arboreals, Aquatics and Avians, thus not only preventing or ending the Civil War, but telling them to watch out for this psycho Sphere-Builder chick that would come calling to tell them all sorts of lies about their peaceful and generous human allies?
SPOILER for 'The Council'
Me: Well, from what we see in 'The Council', the Sphere-Builders were messing with the Xindi at roughly the same time as Enterprise-2 appeared in, and perhaps even before. I'm not certain if they ever referenced the exact timeframe of Xindus' destruction (there seems to be conflicting information) but probably the Sphere-Builders were quietly influencing some Xindi even before that, assuming that they were responsible for Xindus' destruction to give them a situation in which they could 'help' the Xindi refugees. My point is that the Sphere-Builders would probably be able to destroy E-2 or else turn the Xindi against it - perhaps even bumping up the timetable for an assault on Earth.
That would have been an interesting concept - if E-2 attacked the Xindi in the past in revenge for the attack on Earth, then the Xindi found out what race crewed E-2 and attacked Earth in revenge, and then E-1 was sent to the Expanse to attack the Xindi in revenge for the attack on Earth and ended up in the past as E-2...quite the regular temporal paradox.
DMW: Speaking of age, did anyone else find Old T'Pol really ... well, OLD and feeble, even for a 140+ Vulcan? Unless T'Pol is much older than we know, I would have thought that' she would have held up better after “only” 117 years. Sarek was looking pretty robust at what I assume was a much older age. Degenerative effects of Pa’nar Syndrome, perhaps?
Luigi Novi: Or the fact that Sarek takes place 200 years later, when medical science makes lifespans longer?
Zero Hour(ENT) establishes T'Pol's age as 66. Therefore Alt-T'Pol is 183, a fairly advanced age. I'd compare it to some humans who are totally decrepit at 70, while others of the same age are hale and hearty. Add to that the potential lingering effects of Trellium-D abuse, the fact that she's been cooped up on a starship for 120 years, etc...
PLEASE LABEL SPOILERS FOR UPCOMING EPISODES I HAVEN'T SEEN YET!
Thank you.
Sorry. I didn't think T'Pol's age was really a spoiler.
It is for the Male Demographic, 18 to Dead - you want B&B to lose that single target audience which they've previously had no trouble hanging on to?!
Does anyone here know why, beginning with this episode, the show has returned to the teaser-and-Five-Act episode structure? Why did they abandon the Four-Act structure?
Thande: Well, from what we see in 'The Council', the Sphere-Builders were messing with the Xindi at roughly the same time as Enterprise-2 appeared in, and perhaps even before. I'm not certain if they ever referenced the exact timeframe of Xindus' destruction...
Luigi Novi: The end of The Xindi established that Xindus was destroyed about 120 years prior, so you're right.
Thande: My point is that the Sphere-Builders would probably be able to destroy E-2 or else turn the Xindi against it...
Luigi Novi: The Sphere-Builders can't even exist in our universe, so they couldn't have destroyed it. Whether they could've turned the Xindi against it is also in question, in part because the Enterprise's technology would've been 117 years ahead of the Xindi.
On three, we are going to synchronise our watches...
Despite being thrown back in time and being significantly refitted, Enterprise-2 nav lights blink at exact same time as Enterprise nav lights.
I've got a question,
If no one on enterprise had been through the this part of space then why did Mayweather say the stars look different, the capt. and crew realize they are somehow in the past- thereby creating this mess to begin with?
What I'm trying to say is how would anyone know WHEN they are by the stars??
Because they know where they are supposed to be, and can project what the constellations look like.
They are off by some small amount, and so, given the knowledge (in their database) of what stellar motion is, they can calculate when they are.
The nit on that sequence is that stars are so far apart that stellar drift would not be noticeable over such a short period (100 years). It takes tens of thousands or millions of years for stellar drift to be noticeable.
117 years, actually. (Pick, pick, pick.)
ScottN: The nit on that sequence is that stars are so far apart that stellar drift would not be noticeable over such a short period (100 years). It takes tens of thousands or millions of years for stellar drift to be noticeable.
Luigi Novi: So you're saying that when Data uses the stars to calculate the date in ST First Contact, that that shouldn't be possible, and is therefore a nit? (Granted, that was over 400 years...) Just wanna make sure.
Me, I’m shocked that we actually see a Captain of the Enterprise who’s married…
When Lorian first introduces himself to Archer at the airlock in the closing scene of Act 1, he refers to himself as the “Commander” of the Enterprise, and Karyn Archer as his First Officer. Shouldn’t he refer to himself as the Captain of the Enterprise?
Many nearby stars move with more than 3"/year and that's certainly measurable in ~2150 with the Enterprise's onboard instruments.
A few examples from an old book:
Barnard's Star: 10.34"/y, 5.87 ly
Wolf 359: 4.71"/y, 7.87 ly
e Ind: 4.69"/y, 11.44 ly
o² Eri: 4.08"/y, 16.3 ly
Impressive data, Electron, but bear in mind that the Expanse is a considerable distance from Earth. Also, shouldn't the Enterprise crew only be able to see the stars inside the thermobaric clouds, which are all fairly close in interstellar terms?
Yes, I too assume that the crew would use the stars inside the expanse for "astronavigation".
It was okay, though it did remind me too much of Children of Time (DS9). There are some nice moments in the episode, Trip talking to his son in Engineering, Archer visiting the older T'Pol. It seemed a little too much like a diversion though.
Archer mentioned ionizing the hull to make the ship less detectable. So they can do it to the Enterprise like they can to the shuttlepod. Good to see the creators remembered that.
Shortly into Reed's conversation with Hoshi and Travis, the latter two leave because they have to go on duty. Didn't they just sit down? Guess it was just a short coffee break.
Speaking of Reed's family line, couldn't he have found someone that may have at least mothered a child for him? So maybe he couldn't get married, but was no one willing to help Reed continue his legacy?
What would have happened if Lorian had ordered a collision course and destroyed the probe? He would have saved 7 million people, but the humans wouldn't know about the Xindi. What if the Xindi decided to go straight into building the weapon after losing the probe? They might have destroyed Earth without warning. This is, of course, all speculation. We really don't know how the Xindi would have reacted if their probe was destroyed before it could do its thing.
Sparrow47: My other big plot annoyance was that both crews seemed pretty dense about the whole "sending in both ships to fight the Whozits" idea. I knew that's what the end result was going to be halfway through the episode. Again, they couldn't figure this out earlier?
I don't think Lorian and co. wanted the Enterprise to go into the subspace corridor at all. They felt it would be too risky.
Sparrow47: So, if T'Pol was so set on having a Vulcan ceremony, who did she get to officiate it?
I'm sure any of the crew could learn to do it. My money's on Archer.
Sparrow47: Seems like Archer missed a novel chance when they initially went back in time- the timeline really would have gotten a kick in the pants if they had attempted to prevent the destruction of the Xindi homeworld.
Stop a world war that destroyed the planet? I'm not sure even Archer could do that. And that's assuming it's within the last 117(?) years.
TUE: Hoshi tells Reed that with 1/3 of the crew female, there are bound to be bachelors . Well, Lorian tells Archer that Phlox has a lot of descendants. Presumably, this is because Phlox took multiple wives (as is the Denobulan custom). Why didn't some of the human women take more than one husband? Or, why couldn't Alt-Reed snag an alien babe like Alt-Archer apparently did?
Maybe Reed's just bad with women. Really bad with women.
Vicki: Old T'Pol offered young T'Pol chamomile tea. Even if they had built a hydroponics garden, who would have planned taking flower seeds along on the original mission?
Maybe they bought replicator tech while they were out there.
I wonder why the NX-01a never offered the NX-01 any technology they'd picked up?
Luigi Novi: At the end of the previous episode, Degra merely mentioned “aliens” who prey upon ships in the nebula to which the Enterprise is headed in the beginning of this episode, without mentioning anything about the species, their technology, or even their name, but in the second scene of Act 1 in this episode, they know that they’re called Kovaalans, and Reed mentions that Degra told them how many ships there were in the nebula.
Maybe they got a text-only transmission offscreen before Degra left.
Luigi Novi: When Lorian first introduces himself to Archer at the airlock in the closing scene of Act 1, he refers to himself as the “Commander” of the Enterprise, and Karyn Archer as his First Officer. Shouldn’t he refer to himself as the Captain of the Enterprise?
I don't see what the problem. If he's the ship's captain, he is technically also the commander since he commands the ship.
Lorien looks like he could be one of the elves form Lord of the Rings.
Someone mentioned the Ikarran race sounded familiar. An early episode of the sci fi show Babylon 5 featured an extinct race called Ikarrans whose bioweapons created havoc on the station. Babylon 5 also briefly in the fourth season had a character called Lorien. Yikes. The show ALSO had a character called Dukhat as well.