• Borderland Board 2 November 14 - 7:59 am

Who, seeing the Big Show as an Orion, didn't almost immediately think: "It's Shrek's great-great-great-great grandson"?

Another thing: How could Enterprise just go to warp straight out of the chute? Wouldn't the same thing that happened in STTMP have happened here? Kirk, in his log entry then, said that going to warp drive while still within the solar system usually was not done.

All in all, though, not too shabby. Better than the teaser suggested it would be.

And that's the bottom line...if you smell what I'm cooking.

The anti-matter imbalance accident that occured to Kirk's Enterprise in TMP only happened because the new engines had not been calibrated properly. Scotty made reference to needing more simulations run on the anti-matter flow sensors and being rushed through the final stages of preparation before leaving drydock. Spock made adjustments when he came on board and the ship accelerated to Warp 7 to intercept V'Ger. Presumably they were still within the solar system because they were at full stop after the accident and while Spock's shuttle docked. Kirk's reference to "risk{ing) warp drive while still in the solar system" was perhaps just indicative of their current location, not a prohibition against acceleration. Obviously, Trip had enough time to balance NX-01's engines so no temporal/spatial distortion occcured. (Note: though Kirk used the term "wormhole" to refer to this phenomenon, I chose to avoid it in order not to confuse this effect with the Bajoran wormhole and other like spatial passages.) Now, onto the episode in question. All around praise for this one. Truly, this is an episode that can proudly stand beside episodes of the other series and actually feel like part of the overall Trek scenario. Green Orions, piggy Tellarites, surly Klingons, (A-plus for casting JG Hertzler as the Klingon commander--pity he didn't survive to help Archer pursue the Augments.) and fiendish genetically altered supermen topped off by Brent Spiner's wry villainy. Did you notice almost every line of his could be interpreted as a double meaning, giving his opinion of Enterprise's crew versus Next Gen. I'm actually looking forward to the rest of the story. Let's hope the repairs to Enterprise covered more than just the structure of the ship and extend to the braintrust behind the scenes as well.

---Critique:
---Very interesting.
While it is difficult to judge episodes that are not self-contained, if this is the direction the show is taking, then I’m very pleased. There seems to be a genuine attempt to explore the past mythology of Star Trek with the Augments, and the developing relationship between Earth and the Klingons, with a story with dark overtones and suspense, and not the worn-out lameness of a simple Alien of the Week. For the first time since perhaps early in the first season, this actually felt like a legitimate part of Star Trek’s unexplored history, and I’m curious to see where this goes.
---For once, the fight scenes in the teaser look good! Whether the actors involved are skilled martial artists, or they did a good job of disguising the use of stuntmen, it was a welcome change from the cheesiness we’ve come to expect from them.
---Stunt casting or no, Brent Spiner is a good enough actor that he is capable of creating an entirely new character that the audience can buy into without any comparisons to Data.
---And was Persis, the female Augment, named after the late Persis Khambatta, who played Lt. Ilia in ST The Motion Picture?

---Notes:
---We see Orion starships for the first time ever in the closing shot of Act 1, and we see Orion males for the first time ever in Act 2.
---T’Pol receives a promotion to Commander in this episode, as Archer mentions in the ready room in Act 1.

---Continuity Nods:
---Soong, of course, is no doubt an ancestor of Noonien Soong, the creator of Data.
---This episode marks the first mention on the series of the Orion Syndicate, which was last used as a plot element in Prodigal Daughter(DS9), and I believe the first mention on the series of the Eugenics Wars.
---I also believe this is the first time we’ve seen subcutaneous emergency transponders since Patterns of Force(TOS), which for some reason, were never seen during the TNG era.

---Terms:
Dr. Arik Soong Brilliant scientist and criminal jailed for genetic engineering, who created the Augments, and whose help Archer enlists to help find them. (First name from startrek.com only.)
Sharat Syndrome Disease which Soong tells Archer in the opening scene of Act 1 would be cured with the application of a modified T-cell whose DNA sequence is illustrated on a document on the wall of Soong’s prison cell.
The Augments Genetically engineered humans created by Arik Soong from embryos he stole from Cold Station-12 twenty years earlier, as Archer mentions to Soong in the first two scenes of Act 1. The Augments seized a Klingon Bird of Prey in the teaser. They have twice the lifespan of humans, as Soong tells Archer in the opening scene of Act 4, and according to Malik later in the same Act, five times their strength and twice their intelligence.
Cold Station-12 A top-secret medical research station where Soong used to work, as Archer tells the crew in the Situation Room in the second scene of Act 1. Reed and Archer mention that Starfleet keeps a stockpile of infectious diseases and genetically engineered embryos left over from the Eugenics Wars there, and that Soong stole embryos from the station, and raised the children brought to term from them on a planet in the Trialis System before being captured ten years later and tried and convicted.
Trialas System Location of a planet where Archer tells the crew in the Situation Room in the second scene of Act 1 Soong brought the genetically engineered embryos to term and raised them.
The Borderland Volatile region between the Klingon Homeland and the Orion Syndicate, and which attracts the most dangerous elements from both, and where the Klingon Bird of Prey was attacked in the teaser, as Reed and T’Pol mention in the Situation Room in the second scene of Act 1.
Malik One of the Augments, who comes into conflict with his brother Raakin for the leadership of the Augments, named in Act 1 by Soong, who tells Phlox was the rebellious one, and whom reminded him of himself at that age. He kills Raakin in Act 3 because of Raakin’s deviation from Soong’s beliefs.
Persis Raakinn’s lover, who becomes Malik’s romantic interest, and whom Malik first mentions by name in Act .
Raakin The leader of the augments, whom Malik names in Act 1, and from whom he takes leadership in Act 3, due to Raakin’s deviation from their father’s beliefs.
Proxima Colony Colony, presumably in the Proxima Centauri star system, near which Archer tells T’Pol in the ready room in Act 1 a Klingon warship was spotted, according to an intelligence report.
Orion Interceptors Alien essels, two of which attack the Enterprise in the Bordlerland in the closing scene of Act 1.
Verex III Planet where the processing station for Orion slave labor closest to the Enterprise is located, as Soong tells Archer in the second scene of Act 2.
Ensign Jeffrey Pierce One of the nine Enterprise crewmen kidnapped by the Orions in Act 2. He first appears near the end of Act 2 in the same holding cell with T’Pol, where he gives his name, and where T’Pol mentions that he is a new crewman. He tells her that he just signed on, and read every transcript of every mission up until then.
neurolytic restraints Devices attached to the necks of the Orion Syndicate’s slaves, which induce convulsive seizures in disobedient slaves, and which would make beaming lethal to the prisoner, as Soong tells Archer in the opening scene of Act 3.
tritanium cobalt Precious substance, “nine kilos” of which Archer used to fre his crew and bribe the guards to keep Ensign Pierce’s neurolytic restraint in Act 3, which Trip tells Archer was half their supply.
Saul The Asian male Augment, whom Raakin unsuccessfully tries to convince to help him when Malik takes over as leader in Act 3.
Jaya One of the Augments, whom Raakin unsuccessfully tries to convince to help him when Malik takes over as leader in Act 3.
Clarke’s Disease Painful malady from which Archer’s father’s succumbed in his final years, as Soong mentions to Archer in the opening scene of Act 4.
Nietzsche Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche (1844 - 1900), influential German philosopher whose quote “Mankind is something to be suppressed” is cited by Malik to Archer in Act 4.

I had no idea there was a market for really ugly slaves
Did the Orions actually venture into the Delphic Expanse? Have races from the Expanse ventured out into the Borderland? I ask, because right before Archer finds T’Pol in her cage in Act 2, we see an alien directly behind her who looks just like Tarquin from Exile.
Or better, yet, shot the guy who wrote that scene
There’s no reason for Reed and that MACO to have obeyed Malik’s orders to lower their weapons when he grabbed Archer’s throat in Act 4. Malik’s head was exposed, and Reed could’ve simply shot him.

I too thought of Persis Khambatta, but that is a common Indian name and was probably chosen to reflect the multi-ethnic backgrounds of the supermen, just as Khan's group were named Joaquin, MacPherson, Ling, etc. As to Reed's hesitation and surrender, perhaps he was just not willing to risk his captain's life.

In addition to The Big Show appearing in this episode, there is another nod to pro wrestling in this episode. At the beginning, when the augments attack the Klingons, the Asian guy takes out one with a perfectly executed frankensteiner. He basically jumps on the guys head, falls backwards and takes the guy over with him. For a moment I thought I was watching WWE Smackdown.

I thought Manny said that they were going to do some fudging of the timeline because the nineties came and went with (in reality as we know it, at least) no mention of Prince Khan Noonian Singh ruling a great deal of subjects, but I was pleasantly surprised when Phlox mentioned that the DNA from the Augments was originally from the twentieth century, indicating that the timeline hasn't been changed (at least that's what I gathered). I think it's wonderful...I mean, what is Rick Berman VIII going to do in the twenty-third century, when there's no James Tiberius Kirk (as we know him) born? Change the timeline? I think it's great that the seem to be acknowledging that Enterprise et al is set in an alternate universe or whatever. Or more probably I'm totally wrong.

Missed Opertunity:
Have that Orion Slave girl dance rather than simply standing there looking bored.....

"I believe the first mention on the series of the Eugenics Wars." -- Luigi Novi

Actually, Archer mentions that his great-grandfather (or something like that) fought in the Eugenics Wars in "Hatchery."

TO SLEEP, PERCHANCE TO DREAMWORKS:
I must agree with Stone Cold Steven of None. The one Orion REALLY reminded me of Shrek.

ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH:
Did Archer's lawyer have such a rough time on Rura Penthe that he decided to change his career and become a starship captain? The Klingon portrayed by J.G. Hertzler at the very beginning bears a striking resemblance to the aforementioned lawyer.

LIFE IS A TALE, TOLD BY AN IDIOT:
Did it seem to anyone else that the Augments were really vocal about their past. They seemed to constantly reference things that happened to all of them. (Almost like they were saying things for the benefit of an audience...)

THOUGH THIS BE MADNESS, THERE IS METHOD IN IT:
Given that Soong is clever enough to escape a prison using nothing but a glorified Gameboy, why is security so lax when he is transferred to the Enterprise. He also seems to be a bit nuts. I was surprised he wasn't in a straightjacket. (As mentioned by someone else, he should have been under MACO watch while on the planet)

IF IT WERE DONE, WHEN TIS DONE, TWERE WELL IT WERE DONE QUICKLY:
Why does Malik make such a production when he plans to kill Raakin? As Malik so wonderfully demonstrates to Archer, Raakin could have grabbed Malik and snapped his neck. Granted, Raakin would have been shot, but I would have been a bit more careful.

FOR SUCH DISGUISE AS HAPLY SHALL BECOME THE FORM OF MY INTENT:
Why does T'Pol remain in her catsuit even though she has been given a Starfleet commission. She's got the commander's pips and the Enterprise patch. Why no uniform?

(I have Shakespeare on the brain. You'll have to excuse the Bard-like quotes above my comments)

OVERALL OPINION:
I really enjoyed this episode. I really can't wait to see where they're going with this. I couldn't be more pleased with the direction this season is taking. Nice continuity with the last episode as well as episodes before that. I'm glad there were repercussions from T'Pol's wedding. The Orions were a bit hokey but it was really cool to see them. I hope we get to see more of the Klingons before this arc is over.

Adieu,
Parting is such sweet sorrow.

TUE

Captain Dunsel: As to Reed's hesitation and surrender, perhaps he was just not willing to risk his captain's life.
Luigi Novi: My point is that he wouldn’t have had to. He had clear shot at Malik. Is Malik’s ability to squeeze his hand faster than a phaser beam? And why couldn’t Archer struggle?

TUE: Did it seem to anyone else that the Augments were really vocal about their past. They seemed to constantly reference things that happened to all of them. (Almost like they were saying things for the benefit of an audience...)
Luigi Novi: It seemed fine to me. Sometimes exposition can be well-done, and I think it was here.

TUE: He also seems to be a bit nuts. I was surprised he wasn't in a straightjacket.
Luigi Novi: How so? Besides, geniuses are sometimes eccentric.

TUE: Why does T'Pol remain in her catsuit even though she has been given a Starfleet commission. She's got the commander's pips and the Enterprise patch. Why no uniform?
Luigi Novi: This was unclear to me. They didn’t say she was given a Starfleet commission. Her promotion may have been as a member of the High Command, which may have accepted her back in. But I think this should’ve been clearer.

to me soong sounded an awful lot like lore

I thought T'Pol's agreement with her husband was to spend a year on Vulcan? Has a year passed since Home?

When they first mentioned the Orion Syndicate in a DS9 epsiode I assumed that the Orion Pirates had reorganized. Mention of the Orion Syndicate here indicates that the Orion Pirates from TOS weren't, apparently, affiliated with the Syndicate since we never heard of the Syndicate in TOS.

Luigi - we see Orion males for the first time ever in Act 2.
Not technically true. We did see an Orion, disguised as an Andorian, in Journey To Babel.

TUE - She's got the commander's pips
Must... not... make... sleazy... joke... ;-)

I'm going to be very evil and invoke the Animated Series episode "The Pirates of Orion" even though it's not canonical. In that the pirates were said to be secretly working for their government, but always self-destructed their ships if caught, sacrificing their lives so that their government's neutrality was not compromised (and thus pretending to be rogue privateers). If we can say that this government was presumably the Syndicate, then it all makes sense.

Luigi Novi: This was unclear to me. They didn’t say she was given a Starfleet commission. Her promotion may have been as a member of the High Command, which may have accepted her back in. But I think this should’ve been clearer.

They did make it clear. LAST WEEK!

It felt very lonely and have decided to "explore the mysteries of adrenal glands".
Phlox injects transponder into Soong's neck, but when Soong uses stick to disable it, he points at his throat.

Also, am I the only one that that Orion subplot was completely pointless? It didn't change anything. It didn't advance the story. It seems that it was only there to show us Orions again.

And it seems that it didn't occured to Augments that Klingons are going to go after them as well.

Rene: They did make it clear. LAST WEEK!
Luigi Novi: First, calm down. You get way too angry over a television show, and way too easily, expecting everyone to catch every single detail imaginable. Second, what exactly did they say in that ep?

She said she was offered a Starfleet commission. Duh.

T'Pol wasn't promoted,
she got a SF commission at the rank of Commander
which makes sence cause she is the 1. Officer.

The reason she got no regular uniform is because the audience wants to see her in really tight clothes. They should do it with Hoshi and all other females on the show too.

I also believe this is the first time we’ve seen subcutaneous emergency transponders since Patterns of Force(TOS), which for some reason, were never seen during the TNG era. Luigi Novi

I think they were also seen in "Who Watches the Watchers?" Could be wrong about that.

If TPTB think that T'Pol looks better in a catsuit, they need to review their tapes of "Twilight." Someone get that Vulcan a uniform!

KAM : I thought T'Pol's agreement with her husband was to spend a year on Vulcan? Has a year passed since Home?

Nope. T'Pol told Trip last week she's been negociating with the family and they would allow her to remain on Enterprise for the time being.

I feel that the only reason the Orions were involved at all was to make this a 2 or 3 parter, and I was a little confused at who Brent Spiner was playing. I first thought it was Dr. Soong (Data, Lore, and B-4s creator) but that would have made him over a thousand(?)years old, but I didn't hear anyone mention his first name.

And was I the only one who was half expecting Khan to make a cameo? granted he would've been younger but so what. it would have been cool.

He was Dr. Arik Soong.

Khan was in cold-sleep by this time.

Reed easily could've used the stun setting during the hostage situation.

I'm still a bit annoyed and puzzled by Arik Soong being a villian. He's never been mentioned before, right? I can understand why they cast Spiner as Noonien's ancestor. (It's kinda dumb to have an identical grandson or something, but there is precedent.) And sure, he's a genius. Okay.

But a bad guy? There had better be some sort of redemption here. Otherwise it'd be like revealing that one of Scottie or LaForge's ancestors was a serial killer or train robber or something.

(And don't get be started on Khan Noonian Singh vs. Noonien Soong.)

Also, would renegade humans *really* start a war with the Klingons? Couldn't the Earth government, or Starfleet or someone tell them, "Oh, them? They're criminals. Go get 'em. Don't worry about extradition, either." (I suppose the Klingons could just be itching for even the flimsiest pretense.)

"I'm still a bit annoyed and puzzled by Arik Soong being a villian. He's never been mentioned before, right? I can understand why they cast Spiner as Noonien's ancestor. (It's kinda dumb to have an identical grandson or something, but there is precedent.) And sure, he's a genius. Okay.

But a bad guy? There had better be some sort of redemption here. Otherwise it'd be like revealing that one of Scottie or LaForge's ancestors was a serial killer or train robber or something."

And? What's wrong with that?

Luigi said "I’m curious to see where this goes."
So am I. Looking forward to the story playing out.
Anyone else think of Eminem when watching Brent Spiner here?

Rene: She said she was offered a Starfleet commission. Duh.
Luigi Novi: It isn’t “duh,” it’s something that I didn’t catch. Why is not catching every thing worthy of “duh”? Are you saying that you never miss things, and are never proven wrong in the things that you say? Why the rudeness? Why do you have to attack everyone ignorant of some little piece of info that you happen to be privy to, as if knowing something that someone else doesn't somehow makes you intellectually superior? Take a Midol and lie down, Rene.

Sparrow47: I think they were also seen in "Who Watches the Watchers?" Could be wrong about that.
Luigi Novi: It’s not mentioned in the Encyclopedia, and if they had them, wouldn’t they have beamed Troi when the Mintakans took her prisoner?

Anonymous: I first thought it was Dr. Soong (Data, Lore, and B-4s creator) but that would have made him over a thousand(?)years old, but I didn't hear anyone mention his first name.
Luigi Novi: A thousand years old? How so? Where was it established that he was born a thousand years ago?

Roque Ja: But a bad guy? There had better be some sort of redemption here. Otherwise it'd be like revealing that one of Scottie or LaForge's ancestors was a serial killer or train robber or something.
Luigi Novi: And? What’s wrong with that? Having an ancestor who was a criminal, serial killer or train robber doesn’t reflect on the descendant.

Adam Bomb: Anyone else think of Eminem when watching Brent Spiner here?
Luigi Novi: You mean Brent Spiner is a loud-mouthed, retarded closet case too?

Who, seeing the Big Show as an Orion, didn't almost immediately think: "It's Shrek's great-great-great-great grandson"?

Me. I thought he looked like the Jolly Green Giant. And the other Orion males reminded me of how Braniac looked back during the early SuperFriends era, before they made him all robotic looking.

Why does T'Pol remain in her catsuit even though she has been given a Starfleet commission. She's got the commander's pips and the Enterprise patch. Why no uniform?

That bugged me as well. Gotta have the t and a, though... :P

Anyway, I wonder if T'Pol is a personal hero of Troi generations later, because they both seem to have a thing for being out of uniform.

Oh, and Luigi, if you still aren't sure about T'Pol's StarFleet status, keep in mind, in this ep we saw that she has the standard rank pips as well as an Enterprise patch on her catsuit, as seen on all the actual uniforms. I also remember her saying last week that StarFleet offered her a commission. So you missed one, big deal... I think you're still way ahead in the long run!

And? What’s wrong with that? Having an ancestor who was a criminal, serial killer or train robber doesn’t reflect on the descendant.

True... Though I seriously doubt we'll ever see a Lt. Commander Hitler. ;)

Kazeite: Phlox injects transponder into Soong's neck, but when Soong uses stick to disable it, he points at his throat.
Luigi Novi: I reviewed the two shots, and it doesn't seem possible to discern any significant difference, particularly since in the first shot, when Phlox injects it, we can't exactly see the tip of the hypo make contact with Soong's skin.

Thank you, Anonymous. And yes, I reviewed Home, and caught that statement she made to her mom over breakfast in Act 2. I also checked the ready room scene in this ep and noticed the pips. Thanks for the clarification, guys.

Following up...

Roque Ja: But a bad guy? There had better be some sort of redemption here. Otherwise it'd be like revealing that one of Scottie or LaForge's ancestors was a serial killer or train robber or something.
Luigi Novi: And? What’s wrong with that? Having an ancestor who was a criminal, serial killer or train robber doesn’t reflect on the descendant.

Me, again: Well, true. I'm the first one to deny the sins of the father garbage. It's just odd for the villian to be an ancestor of a hero. Especially a hero who sacrificed his own life. (Of course, Lore was bad news too.) The broader point is this: Is the linkage with Noonien Soong and Data cricuial? What differnce would it have made for Arik to have some other name, aside from not being able to cast Spiner in the role? (What if he was, instead, Arik Daystrom? Or Arik Nechayev? Or Arik Braxton? Or Arik Sulu?)

Another maybe-nit involves Starfleet sending just Enterprise. Yes, they're the fastest and the best, but having some backup, even slower and less experienced ships would help. Is there some Starfleet regulation that they send only single ships or large armadas for specific missions?

On less subjective matters, why was there phaser fire between Enterprise and the Orion ships at warp?

Fine ep, however. For all my cynicism regarding Arik Soong, Spiner is an excellent actor and really shines here.

Ah, d*mn. I just accidentally deleted all that I wrote. Well, in a nutshell I liked it. Soong seemed to have fun, there wasn't enough Hertzler, I liked seeing the retro BOP again, and the Orion ships were pretty cool. The episode felt a little too much like set up though. And I thought that the augment scenes were kind of boring. And I didn't see that attack coming at the end. That was a pleasant surprise.

T'Pol's in Starfleet? Wasn't it established that Spock was the first Vulcan in the organization?

This episode once again confirms that a starship can go to warp inside a star system, as the Enterprise does almost immediately after leaving drydock.

Personally, I thought of the Incredible Hulk when I saw that first Orion. It took me a few minutes to realize that it was the Big Show, too.

Did anyone think that Soong was kind of speaking for the audience when he tells Archer that his crew could "use a sense of humor"?

Near the end, when Soong is trying to escape, Trip tells Archer that they can't lock onto Soong's bio-sign because there are too many people down there. Can 22nd century sensors not distinguish what are probably the only two humans down there?

When the Augments bust Soong out, the MACOs guarding Soong are easily dealt with, partially because they're not facing the door to the brig. Did no one think to call them and tell them that several hostile individuals were headed their way? They seemed surprised by the Augments' arrival.

Luigi Novi: There’s no reason for Reed and that MACO to have obeyed Malik’s orders to lower their weapons when he grabbed Archer’s throat in Act 4. Malik’s head was exposed, and Reed could’ve simply shot him.
Yeah, I was wondering about that too. I wouldn't think he'd have the time to do anything to Archer, genetically engineered or otherwise.

TUE: Why does T'Pol remain in her catsuit even though she has been given a Starfleet commission. She's got the commander's pips and the Enterprise patch. Why no uniform?
Agreed. Why didn't she have a regular uniform? Didn't she have one in the alternate timeline in Twilight?

Kazeite: And it seems that it didn't occured to Augments that Klingons are going to go after them as well.
I seem to recall Raakin saying at the beginning that they'd have ships everywhere looking for them. I assumed he meant Klingon ships at the time. Malik seemed surprised in the final Act that Earth had sent a ship out looking for them.

Rene: She said she was offered a Starfleet commission. Duh.
She said she was offered a Starfleet commission, not that she'd accepted it. Though it's reasonable to assume from the changes in this episode that she did.

Anonymous: I first thought it was Dr. Soong (Data, Lore, and B-4s creator) but that would have made him over a thousand(?)years old, but I didn't hear anyone mention his first name.
He'd be somewhere around 250-300 years old in TNG. But, like they said, this isn't Noonien Soong.

JohnM : T'Pol's in Starfleet? Wasn't it established that Spock was the first Vulcan in the organization?

Nope. Never was established. It's a myth. Season 2 TOS featured an all-Vulcan Starfleet crew.

Rene has a very good point there, one that I think I made on the TOS boards: how can Spock be the first Vulcan in Starfleet if the entire crew of the USS Intrepid, including the captain, is Vulcan?

Too bad we never got to see Dr Bashier doing manovers against the Jem'Hadar that these guys did against the Klingons. Now that would have entertaining.

One thing I don't get; in The Expanse, the upgraded Enterprise defeats Duras' ship when it has standard shielding but has trouble with it when Duras put everything into the forward shields.

In this episode, two of those Orion (?) ships easily beat up on Enterprise then the captured Klingon ship easily beats them.

Maybe I'm over thinking it but assuming that Klingon ship is the same type as Duras' ship; does this make sence?

For the question of why didn't Malcolm shoot Malik, I can think of three good reasons.

1) We've seen that weapons have little effect on these guys. IIRC, the MACO's weapons barley phased them (if you'll excuse the term) nor did the Klingons weapons. Malcolm may not know this, so this point may not be valid.

2) Assuming they did shoot Malik in the head, that still requires one heck of a good shot, something that Starfleet personel arn't exactly known for. It's also possible that if Malik didn't die right away that he'd have enough time to snap archers neck. I woulden't want to risk this.

3) There is also the wrath of his fellow augments. Considering they have a powerfull warship at their disposal. Assuming Malcolm did save Archer and killed Malik, his people are going to be rather perterbed about that and might destroy Enterprise in retaliation.

I noticed the transporter back looked a bit diffrent. Did they get an upgrade?

JohnM : T'Pol's in Starfleet? Wasn't it established that Spock was the first Vulcan in the organization?

Nope. Never was established. It's a myth. Season 2 TOS featured an all-Vulcan Starfleet crew.
Thank you Rene. I've always wondered.

BTW, it's Josh M, not John M.

Chris Booton: 2) Assuming they did shoot Malik in the head, that still requires one heck of a good shot, something that Starfleet personel arn't exactly known for. It's also possible that if Malik didn't die right away that he'd have enough time to snap archers neck. I woulden't want to risk this.
Reed's nearly at point blank. I don't think he'd miss that.

---

Quote:

I noticed the transporter back looked a bit different. Did they get an upgrade?
- Chris Booton (Cbooton)

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Quote:

Luigi Novi: It’s not mentioned in the Encyclopedia, and if they had them, wouldn’t they have beamed Troi when the Mintakans took her prisoner?

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And they didn't beam her up straight away in order to minimize the cultural contamination. It wouldn't do to have a whole village of Mintakans witness Troi dematerializing into thin air.

The “Was Spock the first Vulcan in Starfleet” question was discussed on the Countdown board, spurred by T’Pol’s statement to Archer over dinner in the closing scene of Act 2 of that ep that she’s considering formalizing her service to Starfleet. Harvey Kitzman argued that Spock was said to be the first Vulcan in Starfleet. The Undesirable Element and ScottN asserted that this had never been explicated stated, and pointed out that in The Immunity Syndrome(TOS), the Intrepid was manned completely by Vulcans, which they felt disproved this notion. Justin O’Donnell consulted The Star Trek Encyclopedia on this, and quoted it as saying that Spock was the first Vulcan to enlist in the “Federation Starfleet,” and asserted that because the quote was worded this way, and because the Starfleet seen on this series is the pre-Federation Starfleet, that they are two separate organizations, and that if T’Pol were to join, technically she’d be joining Earth’s Starfleet, not the Federation one that Spock joined.

Personally, I don’t buy this rationalization, and regard it as the same organization, and that the planetary organization that has jurisdiction over it changed. The use of the word “Federation” before “Starfleet” is simply used descriptively, not as a historical qualifier, since the pre-Federation existence of Starfleet established by Enterprise was not known at the time the Encyclopedia was written. Moreover, I think the Encyclopedia passage requires some clarification. The Encyclopedia usually cites an episode or movie as reference for each data point therein, but it is unclear if it actually does so for this particular point. This is the passage in the entry for Spock in the Encyclopedia that starts off the third paragraph:

Aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise: Spock was the first Vulcan to enlist in the Federation Starfleet, and he distinguished himself greatly as science officer aboard the original U.S.S. Enterprise. His logical Vulcan thought-patterns proved of tremendous value when Spock first served aboard the Enterprise during the command of Captain Christopher Pike. (“The Menagerie[TOS]). Spock said he worked with Pike for 11 years, 4 months, which suggest he was young enough when he first came aboard the Enterprise that he was probably still attending Starfleet Academy.

Now The Menagerie(TOS) is cited as the reference for this passage, but is it referring simply to his service with Pike (which is referenced in that episode), or does it also provide reference for his status as the first Vulcan in Starfleet? In fact, I reviewed that episode, and while the teaser of that episode mentions Spock’s service with Pike, no such thing about him being the first Vulcan in Starfleet is ever stated.
---As for the Intrepid being manned completely by Vulcans, this in itself, neither proves nor disproves that he was the first Vulcan in Starfleet. For all we know, some or many of those Vulcans enlisted before Spock, or Spock did enlist before any of them. I don’t believe this status was ever explicitly mentioned onscreen, and I question whether it is something that has merely been assumed as a part of Trek tradition. So does anyone know if it was ever explicitly stated onscreen?

Take a Midol and lie down, Rene.

That line was uncalled for, Luigi. And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "Rene" a male name?

You mean Brent Spiner is a loud-mouthed, retarded closet case too?
No, I meant by appearance only, not by demeanor.

For the record, I've heard Rene being used for men and women, but anyway...

I'm just going to say I loved that exchange between Soong and Phlox in sickbay.

Influx: That line was uncalled for, Luigi.
Luigi Novi: Rene's unprovoked insults of others, without any retribution from others, was uncalled for. I was merely defending myslef, and telling him in a sardonic manner to calm himself down when responding to others. But just out of curiosity, why did my that retort by me get this response from you, but his initial insults did not?

Influx:And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "Rene" a male name?
Luigi Novi: Yes, I know Rene is male. Hence the jab.

And yes, Adam, I know, I was joking.

Luigi Novi: I reviewed the two shots, and it doesn't seem possible to discern any significant difference, particularly since in the first shot, when Phlox injects it, we can't exactly see the tip of the hypo make contact with Soong's skin.
I was able to discern the difference, however. Phlox doesn't put the hype to Soong's throat.

I'm beginning to think the issue of Spock being the first Vulcan in Starfleet is more myth than fact. I cannot find an episode or movie in which it was explicity stated that Spock was the first. As many have pointed out, "The Immunity Syndrome" would seem to prove otherwise.

I recall reading in The Making of Star Trek that it was Roddenberry's intention in the first season that Spock was the only Vulcan in Starfleet. I further recall that it was pointed out how "Immunity Syndrome," from the second season, disproved that. I do not have the book handy, but if someone on the board does, I would recommend they reread the section on Spock/Nimoy.

For what it's worth, here is a paragraph from Spock's biography at www.startrek.com.

---

Quote:

Because the young Vulcan chose to join Starfleet, he and Sarek opened an 18-year rift over Sarek's hope his son would attend the Vulcan Science Academy. Spock was the first Vulcan to enlist in the Federation Starfleet, serving aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise under Captain Christopher Pike as a lieutenant, and later for James T. Kirk.

---

---

Quote:

Many fans believe that Spock is the first Vulcan to join Starfleet, a fact that appears to be contradicted by the series Star Trek: Enterprise; in fact, there is no reference to Spock being the first. It has been suggested that he is the first to graduate from Starfleet Academy, however.

---

When Malik had Archer by the throat, two thoughts immediately occurred to me:

1: Kirk in "Whom Gods Destroy" (TOS) "Shoot us both!" There's two guns at point-blank range pointed at them; you're not likely to miss.

2: The movie "Speed": The exchange between Jeff Daniels and Keanu Reeves: "What do you do? Shoot the hostage!"

1. The stun setting was shown to be ineffective against Augments, as we saw with Persis moments later.

2. If Archer had been stunned, Malik still could have killed him by breaking his neck.

The nit I had with this scene was the MACO seemed to lower his weapon AT THE SAME TIME as Malcolm, rather than following Malcolm's lead.

Maybe Malik thought the Klingons would defend themselves by stomping on their feet?
In the teaser, after subduing the Klingon guards at the airlock, Malik and Saul go to the bridge, and when the door to the bridge opens, they’re holding their weapons down at their side. Doing this gives time for the Klingons to raise their weapons. Malik and Saul manage to raise theirs in time to presumably kill them, but it was dumb not to walk in with their weapons already raised.
Guess the Big Show has a “little presentation”
During the slave revolt in Act 3, the Orion auctioneer tries to grab a fleeing T’Pol, and rather than apply neck pinch, she wrenches herself away from him and kicks him in the groin.

Kazeite: I was able to discern the difference, however. Phlox doesn't put the hype to Soong's throat.
Luigi Novi: He puts it to pretty much the same area that Soong later puts the stick to, and we can’t even see the exact point at which he injected it, because it’s in shadow.

MAybe Orions don't have nerves in their necks

A shame, then, about where nature decided to put them all!

From the synopsis at the top of this page:

'the Auguments'
'The suguments of products...'
'forzen embroys'
'Captain ARcher'
'bird of pray'
'who dont know'

GOOD GRIEF, man, use spell-check or take your time or proof-read what you're writing! SIX mistakes in just TWO SHORT paragraphs is inexcuseable! It makes Trek fans look bad! Jeez!

I saw only a few bits and pieces of the first 20 minutes of the episode before my wife came home and got all hungry and stuff about making dinner (Sheesh! Where are her priorities? TV before food, right?), but my comments for now...

JoshM: Wasn't it established that Spock was the first Vulcan in the organization?
One could make a perfectly logical (heh!) argument, as referenced above, that Earth's Starfleet and the United Federation of Planets' Starfleet are two separate organizations.

RoqueJa and Luigi on the Soong dynasty:
Data's creator was not exactly Saint Noonien, if you remember. So the Soong family tree has a rotten vine - big surprise!

RE: T'Pol and a Starfleet uniform
Well, the way I see it, they have two options. Either have to have a throw-away line at some point from someone who explains that T'Pol's skin-tight Velveteen Rabbit get-up is a Vulcan uniform and she is allowed to wear it as a commissioned officer in Earth's Starfleet. Or, they have to change the uniforms for the crew to a two-piece, a la the later seasons of Next Gen so that T'Pol can take the jacket off and show off her dinners from time to time. C'mon, we all know the reason that T'Pol wears a catsuit and Hoshi wears a standard uniform is that Vulcan has higher mountains than Brazil. ;)

It would make sense with present-day uniforms, in that an officer can take his or her jacket off at appropriate times, as long as the shirt/blouse bears the proper rank and markings, yes?

RE: Spiner's portrayal of Arik Soong
Whenever he spoke, I kept thinking, "This is Lore, with silver hair. Spiner looks good with silver hair. But this is still Lore." I don't think this is a critique on Brent Spiner's acting ability - anyone remember seeing him in Night Court? - but that the character of Arik Soong was too close to Lore.

"Will" wrote:
>>>GOOD GRIEF, man, use spell-check or take your time or proof-read what you're writing! SIX mistakes in just TWO SHORT paragraphs is inexcuseable! It makes Trek fans look bad! Jeez!<<<

GOOD GRIEF, man, use spell-check or take your time or proof-read what you're writing! It's spelled "inexcusable"!

From Will's post above:

'proof-read'
'inexcuseable'

GOOD GRIEF, man, use spell-check or take your time or proofread what you're writing! TWO mistakes in just TWO sentences (I won't even go into the run-on sentence) criticizing someone's grammar is inexcusable! It makes you look like a hypocrite! Jeez!

Ah, good stuff.

Data's creator was not exactly Saint Noonien, if you remember.

Heh?

Gimme a break! I made two boo-boos.
The first guy made SIX!

His 'review' will also be the first thing first-timers see when they come here, while I'll be buried 15 pages later.

Okay folks, lets all just lighten up a bit. Yes, people will make mistakes, and it's unfortunate, but going on about it for ten posts isn't going to solve anything. Why can't we all just... get along?

Gimme a break! I made two boo-boos.
The first guy made SIX! - Will

Actually, he made about double that in spelling, punctuation, and grammar mistakes... but you don't see anyone else compiling a list of them, nor coming to the "conclusion" that one person's mistakes somehow make all "Trek fans look bad."

I mean, if his typographical errors make us all look bad, what does your hypocritical condescension do?

Great T'Pol Line:
I'm not for sale!

The Indian Chief on Dorvan V said one of Picard's ancestors massacared a Pueblo in the 1500s.

Great Soong Line:
Go home and learn Klingon!

I think the Klingons will blame Earth for what happened in the teaser and this will lead to the hostilties in TOS.

Great Show! Can't wait to see how this turs out.

The Indian Chief on Dorvan V said one of Picard's ancestors massacared a Pueblo in the 1500s.

Yes, and.... ?

Oops... never mind. I get it. It's about the "Arik is bad, but Data is good" thread.

[EMILY-LATELLA]
Never Mind
[/EMILY-LATELLA]

Eye dunt inderstund whi puple gut al upsit ober spulling. Whi due dey?

Sum peeple hav know kreaytivitee.

C'mon, we all know the reason that T'Pol wears a catsuit and Hoshi wears a standard uniform is that Vulcan has higher mountains than Brazil.
For some reason this reminded me of Michael Frank's Popsicle Toes.
"I'd like to feel your warm Brazil & touch your... Panama".

I remember Brent Spiner from Night Court. Wish they had more episodes with that family.
"We're not really from West Virginia, we're from Yugoslavia."
"Why'd you say you were from West Virginia?"
"It was the most exotic place we could think of."*

(*Dialogue probably not remembered exactly.)

"Knock, knock."
"Whoi's there?"
"Su."
"Su who?"
"The suguments of products of Soong's experiments of forzen embroys."
"Huh? I hate techno-babble!'

Cute... would have been funnier if you had paid closer attention and said "expertments" rather than "experiments."

A few things I noticed:

The Enterprise had trouble beaming up Soong because of all the people around. However, they seemed to have no trouble finding and transporting the missing crew members. In fact, I was taken by surprise when they said that the ship had them all.

Near the end of the episode, Soong said something like, "We're all here..." I was waiting for him to continue, "Er...where's Raakin?" Maybe in the next episode, he'll ask what happened to him.

To show how far we've come (I guess): the iconic Orion Slave Girl is now Orion Slave Woman.

Near the end of the episode, Soong said something like, "We're all here..." I was waiting for him to continue, "Er...where's Raakin?" Maybe in the next episode, he'll ask what happened to him.

I believe the girl told him about his death at one point. Pay attention.

Yeah, Rene--er, I mean Anonymous--they should pay attention.

Just out of curiosity, what was the exact dialogue? If it's there, somehow I missed it.

There was no such dialogue alluding to "we all" or "you all" or mentioning Raakin at the Enterprise airlock, so if you mean the very last scene on the BoP bridge, it's this:

"There were times, back on Earth, when I doubted myself. My work. But seeing you all, I know that everything I fought for was worth it. We're going to build a new world. But we can't begin that task just yet. Thousands of your brothers nad sisters are waiting to be born. Let's go get them."

And that's it. No mention of Raakin. So much for Ren-er, I mean Anonymous' "pay attention" refrain.

Oh, and Anonymous, why did you refer to the character as "the girl," rather than by her name? Her name was mentioned in dialogue by Soong when she freed him from the brig, Richie put it at the top of the page, and I mentioned it in my list of Terms. Could it be that perhaps...oh, I dunno....you weren't paying attention? Could it be that perhaps, everyone, at one time or another, misses certain details, and that maybe, this means you as well?

You are the weakest link, goodbye.

The Orion Slave...Woman....didn't get a single line, did she? Why was she in the credits then? Just to boost viewership, that's why. This episode could have been far more interesting.

Non-dialogue characters are often placed in the credits. This is not exclusive to scantily clad females.

Luigi
Season 4 is not yet available in the UK but all this reference to a green Orion slave girl does seem a nod in the direction of Vina from "The Cage" from Star Trek TOS. She was one of the favourites for comment in Nick Farrands NitPickers Guide.

Phil Farrand, not Nick.

Well, yes, Duncan, that is obvious. I was just answering Ken's question of why she wasn't in the credits.

Mea Culpa
Phil not Nick. How could I be so mistaken I have his books in front of me now....my mind is wandering! Sorry to be obvious. I am rereading the guides at the moment and the chapter end comments seemed so apt!

The most memorable part of this ep were the scenes set in the Orion slave trading post. It really helped expand on the Orion backstory introduced way back in The Cage. It throws a new light on Orions. Not only are they slave traders, they are sexist monsters that don't respect their own women. Too many male Trekkers have come to regard the image of a green Orion slave girl as a sexual object (just attend any convention). They should be ashamed. The scenes of the Orion trader flinging T'Pol around like a Barbie doll were rather disturbing too.

As opposed to the symbol of mature, intelligent womanhood they were really going for in "The Cage", I suppose.... *wink*

Oh noes! Men find sexy women to be sexual!

Nove - To show how far we've come (I guess): the iconic Orion Slave Girl is now Orion Slave Woman.
Interesting that the Politically Correct feel they have to change Girl to Woman, but choose to leave the word Slave in there.

Rona - It throws a new light on Orions.
No it doesn't. This is pretty much the same light we had from Pike's fantasy in The Cage.

Too many male Trekkers have come to regard the image of a green Orion slave girl as a sexual object
Well, duh. And probably a few lesbians have Orion Slave Girl fantasies as well.
The Orion Slave Girl/Woman is just a sci-fi variation of a harem girl, also a big fantasy amongst heterosexual males.

"Interesting that the Politically Correct feel they have to change Girl to Woman, but choose to leave the word Slave in there." -- KAM

Ummm... that's because she IS a slave.

TUE

And to many people she is also a Girl.

Many Women get upset at being called Girl if they are older than 18 or 21, even though up to that point they had no problem with the term. I tend to call Women Girls because for most of my life females my own age or younger were Girls, Women were females older than I.

Now the only reason to change the term Orion Slave Girl to Orion Slave Woman is to avoid offending Women. However isn't the word Slave even more offensive?

Well, at least T'Pol has finally been given an official Starfleet uniform.

The term "Slave" is a practical term in this sense. She is literally a slave, like the blacks were in America prior to 19th century or any other group of people who have been required to serve other groups throughout history.

The term "girl" as opposed to "woman" is subjective according to the society. The term "slave" is determined by a person's status. What could you possibly change it to? She's either a slave or she isn't.

I am really not following your logic here.

TUE

Rona, where did T'Pol have a SF uniform?

She has an arm patch, but still gets to wear the skintight catsuit.

Now why can't they put Hoshi in a catsuit?

ScottN: Now why can't they put Hoshi in a catsuit?

Dan Gunther: Okay, fine. But if they put Phlox in a catsuit, they've gone too far!

When does Porthos get a patch for his collar?!?

TUE - I am really not following your logic here.
Because I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle.

I'm talking about the Writers changing the term from Orion Slave Girl to Orion Slave Woman as an outgrowth of being politically correct. You seem to be looking at it from the Orion's POV, but I don't think she was called anything in the episode. The term Orion Slave Woman was apparently just in the credits.

When does Porthos get a patch for his collar?!?

So, in the 22nd century, they have a patch for cheese addiction?

KAM, I think TUE meant that it sounded like you were questioning why the writers didn't change 'Slave', and TUE replied that 'Slave' was purely descriptive (and I agree with him, BTW). He didn't say anything about 'Girl/Woman' which I think, you're right, is an outgrowth of political correctness.

Speaking of Porthos, isn't there any sort of seat belt or restraints for the dog. All the people get knocked around a bit. The pooch needs some protection too!

There's an image: Porthos flying around Archer's quarters.

Porthos: Ship in danger? This looks like a job for... (puts on cape) SuperPorthos™!

"There's no need to fear. UNDERDOG is here!"

Will Porthos ever have a love interest though?

Yes, he'll go through a timewarp and have a torrid affair with Spot.

By all that's holy, Scott, don't go saying these things out loud! Berman and Braga might hear you and decide to do it!

So Spot will have kippies? Or is it puppins?

Are there dogs on Vulcan? Maybe Porthos could meet a nice biatch on Vulcan? A sort of canine version of Sarek and Amanda, only with pointed-eared puppies.

Well, Spock had a sehlat but uh...

I hope Porthos can bribe them with cheese if he ever has the misfortune to run into one!

Early in the ep, Soong mentions that the augments are very sophisticated for being from the twentieth century. Of course this ties into the eugenics war (which took place in the 1990s according to Space Seed). Since the real life timeline has passed that date by almost a decade, shouldn't the writer have moved their origin date to a bit in the future. In Terminator 3, the writer acknowledged that the predicted events (which took place in the 90s) didn't take place. Can't Trek do the same (although in a subtle manner)?

Greg Cox's (admittedly non-canon) "The Eugenics Wars" indicates that they were "underground" wars, and that the public at large wasn't aware of them.

Rona, the reason T3 could do that is because it could say that the events of T2 changed the timeline because the Connors, Dyson and the T-800 altered it. No such thing occurred with the Eugenics Wars, because no one ever went back in time to fiddle with them.

The "underground" theory is just ludicrous, since Space Seed makes clear that it wasn't underground. Spock told Kirk in Act 2 of that episode that a group of these genetically engineered supermen seized power simultaneously in over 40 nations in 1993, and IIRC, that they bombed each other, which aren't exactly "underground" activities.

I knew the media was hiding things from us. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya.

It's also mentioned that the eugenics war took 30 million lives, so there's no way it could be underground. Thanks ScottN, it is nice to see that a Trek writer addressed the issue. It's a minor quibble though. Overall, Trek is a very well thoughtout show.

If the Eugenics War is a secret then are the sleeper ships also a secret? NASA TV would have us believe that for now we have to make do with Discovery, Atlantis, Endeavor, and whatever the Russians contribute.

Yep, according to Cox, the DY class was developed at Area 51.

I wonder why Soong is in a Starfleet prison. Was he in Starfleet or a civilian when he stole the embryos?

Was he in Starfleet or a civilian when he stole the embryos?

Well, since he worked at Deep 13, er... I mean, Cold Station... something, and the doctors at the station all had starfleet type patches on their lab coats, Im'a say he's at least under their jurisdiction somehow.

Luigi says many non-dialog characters have been listed in the opening credits. What other examples can he give? And I still think she should have been given more to do.

Not only are they slave traders, they are sexist monsters that don't respect their own women.

Um, slave traders tend to be sexist monsters, so the description seems sorta redundant.

But it would be interesting to see if there's a class or caste of Orion women who do have the same rights as the men--they wouldn't be slaves, they'd be wives. And maybe they approve of the system. Maybe some of them are also slave owners, we just didn't see any.

Maybe when an Orion slave gets older, she goes through some tests and if she passes, she gets her freedom and a steady, paying job somewhere.

Maybe I'm sounding too PC suggesting these possibilities, I just felt like suggesting alternatives to the too-obvious and cliche'd "sexist monsters" bit.

What's the Orion attitude toward gays?

Ken: Luigi says many non-dialog characters have been listed in the opening credits. What other examples can he give?
Luigi Novi: The Lorillian mother and son and the two Butterfly dancers from Broken Bow, the steward in Unexpected, the two Tactical crewmen who aided Reed in storming the P’Jem monastery in The Andorian Incident, the two imaginary aliens from Vanishing Point, the Vulcan Doctor from Stigma, the Prisoner in Canamar, the Female Crewman, Crewman #1, and Crewman #2 from The Crossing, a Guard in Judgment, a crewman in The Breach, etc.

Ken: And I still think she should have been given more to do.
Luigi Novi: Like what? The plot didn't involve her.

During the auction of the Orion slave woman, there was at least one woman seen furiously bidding. Was she interested in the slave for herself?

Maybe she wanted a gift for her husband. Hey, who says there aren't still swingers in the future?

Maybe she did want the slave for herself.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Rene: During the auction of the Orion slave woman, there was at least one woman seen furiously bidding. Was she interested in the slave for herself?
I don't see why she couldn't be.

This is for all 3 episodes of this arc.
Soong and Archer were pretty incompetent throughout.
I don't remember why Soong left the kids on that planet? He should have been able to find like-minded people to watch the kids while he left; or he should have stayed on the planet and this story arc would never have happened.
He should have taught them about Earth history and what happens when one group thinks they're better than everybody else.
Smike got his nickname from a Dickens novel; I wonder what else they were reading and what they learned from what they read? They should have read Lord of the Flies and had a long discussion with Soong about that novel.
Soong should have been studying psychology enough to predict which of the kids is going to grow up to be immoral and rebellious. He should have been teaching the other kids how to stand up to would be bullies and tyrants.
We don't see what Malik does to convince the others to follow him. He's the only one with opinions. The writers didn't come up with anything for the others to do. Maybe it wasn't in the budget, but the episodes were still not very good.
In this and many other episodes they could use the transporter beam as a weapon. Just beam away parts of the asteroid, parts of the station, parts of the missile coming at the ship or the missile heading for the planet.
Archer tries lying to the Klingons, claiming some VIP is on board; it would have been more plausible just to tell the truth. And the thing with the grappler wasn't plausible at all.
When the augments approach Cold Station 12 there should have been video contact as well as verification of voiceprints. Instead of codes, which could be broken, there should have been passwords, like "what's the ship's security officer's dog's name?" And there would be multiple questions which have to be answered.
Of course then the scriptwriters would have to come up with a whole new storyline.

ken: He should have taught them about Earth history and what happens when one group thinks they're better than everybody else.
But isn't that what Soong believed? Didn't be think that the Augments were better than the rest of the human race?

Ken: I don't remember why Soong left the kids on that planet?
Luigi Novi: Because he was arrested and thrown in jail.

Ken: He should have taught them about Earth history and what happens when one group thinks they're better than everybody else. Smike got his nickname from a Dickens novel; I wonder what else they were reading and what they learned from what they read? They should have read Lord of the Flies and had a long discussion with Soong about that novel.
Luigi Novi: Learning history doesn’t mean that one necessarily learns its lessons, even if they’re illustrated explicitly. Such patterns tend to repeat themselves precisely because people often think, “Oh, that’s not me,” or “Oh, that can’t happen here.”

Ken: Soong should have been studying psychology enough to predict which of the kids is going to grow up to be immoral and rebellious.
Luigi Novi: First, he’s a genetic engineer, and therefore he did not necessarily have the background or education in psychology, or even the inclination to gain any. Second, studying psychology does not mean that you can predict adult personalities solely from observation of the child.

Ken: In this and many other episodes they could use the transporter beam as a weapon. Just beam away parts of the asteroid, parts of the station, parts of the missile coming at the ship or the missile heading for the planet.
Luigi Novi: Good point. Perhaps the transporter can’t target objects moving too fast in the 2150’s?

Maybe it's more a case of size limitations, particularly with the 22nd century transporter.

Well, Ken suggested beaming parts of it, which would work, right? You could either beam vital chunks of its propulsion systems, or its contagioius payload (though I'm not sure if they'd have to isolate the transporter chamber to prevent infection of the ship's crew, or if it doesn't materialize as matter long enough before re-beaming it back into space.)

I thought they *did* do something like that in one episode (the one where they steal the warp coil)?

Damage.

Brent Spiner's delivery at the very end posing with hi children was REALLY similarly evil to what he did in Descent as Lore..

Also, why do clearly Euro/American people like these Soong characters have such Asian or Oriental sounding names? Brent Spiner didn't look that way to me in this latest role or as Data's dad in his younger days.

Plus, while a genetic superman may ahve had twice the human lifespan in 1992, but by 2154 he probably only has a 50% longer lifespan.

Anyway, I don;t see how a person could have 5x normal human strength wthout the increased mass to go along with it - and they didn't seem to heavy to me.

Why do clearly Euro/American people like these Soong characters have such Asian or Oriental sounding names?
Luigi Novi: Because they had an Asian ancestor somewhere on the paternal half of their family, perhaps a father or grandfather. Look at Bruce Lee's kids, Brandon and Shannon. Shannon looks only slightly Asian, and Brandon barely looked Asian at all.

Anyway, I don;t see how a person could have 5x normal human strength wthout the increased mass to go along with it - and they didn't seem to heavy to me.
Perhaps they spliced in the genes of a radioactive spider?

I checked the research and I think it's possible. The downside being that 5x strength means (at least) 5x the energy requirements. Mind you, I suppose they could throw in a more efficient digestive system too.

NANJAO: "Take me out to the holosuite" (DS9) says that Vulcans have 3x human strength. So human Augments are stronger than Vulcans?

I liked that we finally got to see the Orion race properly, but I was disappointed in their ships, which are boringly similar to Klingon and Romulan designs (green, raptor-like, a forward pod on an extended neck with two nacelles at the back). Compare the Orion ship from TAS, which had a unique mantis-like design and colour (yes, all right, the colour in question was pink...apparently the guy in charge was colour blind).

Just looking at the physics of the act, would a Klingon actually go flying 10 feet from a kick?