Damage Part 2

Nitcentral's Bulletin Brash Reflections: Enterprise: Season Three: Damage: Damage Part 2
By inblackestnight on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 8:04 am:

"They mention that sensors are offline, but they were previously talking about going to & hiding in a comet." KAM
"Indeed, at the end of the teaser, Travis said that the Xindi ships had broken off their attack and were returning to the system, and in Act 1, detects the Aquatic pod approaching. He couldn’t have seen that without sensors." LN

I believe they said nebula not comet, and KAM is correct about sensors being stated as offline Luigi. I think after receiving that distress call Archer asks something sensor related and Hoshi says "sensors are still offline." I'm sure they figured out the attack was halted when the firing ceased but detecting the Aquatic pod is a nit. Speaking of that pod, did it look like the Spere-Builder alien's from 'Harbenger' to anybody else?

"I'm surprised the profits haven't done anything to stop the sphere builders. After all, if Earth is lost, Sisko will never be born." Chris

Good point Chris, but didn't Sisko have to find the Profits, like in 'Emissary', in order for them to become active?

"I assume she's suited because Cargo Bay 2 is a vacuum. There should be NO SOUND from all the falling things!" ScottN

It wasn't a vacuum, it just didn't have a breathable atmosphere. If it was a vacuum, wouldn't some of the boxes be floating? About those boxes, if they were so easily knocked over, why haven't they already fallen from the battle?

"What happened to Roddenberry’s vision of a better future, enlightened humans, etc.? There are no heroes like Picard anymore, with a sense of what's ethical right and honorable." Constanze

So you would rather Enterprise miss its rendezvous and have Earth destroyed than Archer stealing a warp coil? Yes, stealing is wrong, but the needs of the many... Also, Picard hasn't even been born yet. SF is just starting out, they haven't achieved Picard's era of enlightenment. I must admit though, I knew Archer was going to steal that coil as-soon-as [Damar] said he couldn't have it.

"T'Pol acted stopidly once in her off time. I don't think that's comparable to endangering the ship by making a wrong decision on the bridge." Constanze

The ship is heavily damaged, people are working around the clock to repair it, there is no off time. When Troi is taking the commander's test, Riker's words of wisdom are "your first duty is to the ship." T'Pol also told Pholox that she is having trouble dealing with her emotions and that suppressing them isn't working. For a vulcan this is definately something that will affect judgement. Phlox should've temporarily relieved her of duty.

The shower head in T'Pol's dream seemed to have some calcium buildup, some of the streams were going acute directions. This is odd considering there shouldn't be contaminants in starship water. Enterprise needs a warp coil and Archer decides to steal one so an alien ship is disabled by shooting its engines. Quite a risky manuver considering the coil is part of their engines.


By John A. Lang (Johnalang) on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 10:07 am:

NANJAO: It was good seeing Casey Biggs again. I always liked his performace as Damar from DS9.


By David (Guardian) on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 2:36 pm:

The shower head in T'Pol's dream seemed to have some calcium buildup, some of the streams were going acute directions. This is odd considering there shouldn't be contaminants in starship water. - inblackestnight

Probably just another way to show how badly damaged the ship was.


By inblackestnight on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 5:33 am:

me: I believe they said nebula not comet, and KAM is correct about sensors being stated as offline Luigi. I think after receiving that distress call Archer asks something sensor related and Hoshi says "sensors are still offline." I'm sure they figured out the attack was halted when the firing ceased but detecting the Aquatic pod is a nit. Speaking of that pod, did it look like the Spere-Builder alien's from 'Harbenger' to anybody else?
After watching this ep again I found that KAM is correct, they did mention hiding in the dust trail of a comet, and even though it would take three days they set a course for it. Also, I no longer think the Aquatic and Sphere Builder pods are all that similar looking. As far as the sensors being stated as offline, I'm betting that scene was filmed before the others.

Guardian: Probably just another way to show how badly damaged the ship was.
TPTB were trying to show battle damage with calcium buildup in a shower head? Well, it was a dream anyway so maybe that had something to do with it :-)


By Cyber (Cybermortis) on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 6:56 am:

"I assume she's suited because Cargo Bay 2 is a vacuum. There should be NO SOUND from all the falling things!" ScottN

It wasn't a vacuum, it just didn't have a breathable atmosphere. If it was a vacuum, wouldn't some of the boxes be floating? About those boxes, if they were so easily knocked over, why haven't they already fallen from the battle?


Vacuum does not imply lack of gravity. The moon is effectively a vacuum yet has gravity.
In the case of the Enterprise - and every other Starship we've seen - gravity is created artificially by 'deck-plating'. This plating works independently from the rest of the life support system, so a section of a ship may have no breathable air but it can still have gravity.

In this case the cargo bay probably has an external breach that allows the air to escape. Unlike later ships Enterprise doesn't have force-fields that can seal such a breach, so the only action the crew could take is to seal the bay off until they have time to repair the hull.
That they would continue to run the gravity system in the bay is understandable. Without gravity the containers would not only drift around the bay, but would be likely to smash into the sides of the bay when the ship moved causing even more damage to both the ship and the containers.

Evidence; Travis finds the 'sweet spot' in Broken Bow, and area where the gravity field is reversed so he can sit on the ceiling. He specifically notes that every ship has such a spot between the gravity generators. (Which also tells us that artificial gravity is fitted to all ships by this date)

Later in season one the gravity goes off in Archers quarters while he is taking a shower. While Archer calls engineering to get this fixed he gives no indication or comments that indicate any concern over running out of air.

There are several examples from TOS and TNG where ships life support systems are listed as 'off-line', but the crew clearly still has gravity to walk around or objects can be seen not floating around as if there was no gravity.

All of these examples indicate that the artificial gravity system on ships is independent of the systems that maintain a breathable atmosphere.


By inblackestnight on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 12:11 pm:

Good examples Cyber, thanks. I stand/sit corrected; however, does that mean there would be no sound in the cargo bay?

The face makeup that Damar uses in this ep looks familar. Was it close to another species in Trek?


By Cyber (Cybermortis) on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 1:34 pm:

does that mean there would be no sound in the cargo bay?

This is a question that is often asked on the Mythbusters websight (A discovery channel program for anyone who doesn't know).

Sound is basically vibrations passed through a solid or liquid medium. So such you could in theory 'hear' sounds that were being transmitted through the deck of a ship, even if there is no air in that part of the ship.

In the case of this episode it isn't clear if there is, in fact, an external hull breach. All we know is that the atmosphere in the cargo bay - if there is one - isn't breathable.
For all we know there is still air in the bay, but the system that replenishes the bay is offline, or the system has been disconnected from that part of the ship. (There is no evidence in Enterprise that every section of the ship has its own life support system. TNG is a different matter, since it is clear from (I think) 'Brothers' that the Bridge on the Enterprise D has several life support systems* - admittedly this is for a vital part of the ship rather than a cargo bay). An older ship, and a less vital area of a ship, probably shares its sir supply with other sections. And as such damage could potentially cut an area off from fresh air.
If the cargo bay, or one of the areas it is connected to, has suffered a major fire then the amount of oxygen in the air could be too low to support human (or Vulcan) life while still leaving a medium through which sound could travel - or such a fire could have left toxins in the air that would be fatal to inhale. By the same token 'sound' could be passed to a person through the deck even if there is no 'air' inside the bay.

Either way there is no particular evidence to indicate if the cargo bay does or does not have air inside it - the damage to the ship could support both scenarios. All we can tell is that there is no (or not enough) oxygen in the bay to allow someone to walk around without breathing equipment. Just because T'Pol happens to be wearing a spacesuit doesn't mean that she couldn't have survived with just a face-mask or similar system that provided oxygen. It could be that the suit was more easily obtained.


*When noting that the life support systems on the bridge had apparent shut down Geordi notes that there are multiple backups. This would imply that the Bridge at least has several life support systems in place. However, the bridge is of vital importance and it would be unusual if all areas of the ship had the same number of backups as this. In other episodes (both TNG and I *think* Enterprise) background voices can be heard saying that life support is off on deck 'X'. Logically this would seem to indicate that most decks have a single life support system for air, with some areas (the Bridge being one) having additional backup systems.


By AWhite (Inblackestnight) on Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 12:26 pm:

TUE: Where did T'Pol get that mysterious trellium refining device? Did she make it?
Luigi Novi: They made it back when they were looking to insulate the hull, before they found out in Impulse that it was harmful to Vulcans.
That device was destroyed in Rajin on their first attempt to synthesize trelliium in its 'unstable' liquid form.

constanze: But that was in her spare time… She hasn't struck somebody; she hasn't endagered the ship or crew, she isn't curled up in a corner with her shakes…
We don't know if it was in her 'spare time' but the ship is barely holding together, there arguably isn't any spare time, particularly for the first officer. Not physically attacking a fellow crew-member or 'curled up in a corner' doesn't mean she's fit for duty. It's true that some addicts can still function while high, or even during withdrawals, but in a command structure if your cognitive abilities have been diminished in a significant enough way, which this certainly qualifies for a Vulcan, you should not be making decisions that effect others.


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