Get;

Straight Outta Compton by NWA, anything by Parliament Funkadelic, The Chronic by Dr. Dre (NOT Chronic 2001. That one sucks) and the infamous Cop Killer CD put out by Ice-T and Body Count. Oh, and how could I forget the BEastie Boys?

I'm ••••••• sick of today's rappers just rapping about how rich they are. Pisses me off. That's why I like Eminem. He's still somewhat gritty (though not very which is why I prefer the albums I mentioned before).

Of course ... Eminem spelled backward is Meni-Me! (yarf-yarf)

Bah. I can't stand any and all rap. Modern music will come and go, but Bach and Holst and Mozart and Bizet and dozens more will never die.

Matt: Then don't come here. You don't want to look like a Troll (peter) do you?

Run DMC!!!!

Hey! What about Public Enemy? I just recently rebought their Apocalypse '91-The Empire Strikes Black disc. That's badass! Not as good as Fear of a Black Planet mind you.

Ice Cube's The Predator as I recall was good. I also like Ice-T. And yes, I do have the original version of the first Body Count disc.

Salt-N-Pepa are okay. But I really like TLC. Lil Kim is pretty good, too. I got her The Notorius K.I.M. disc.

I haven't gotten of Eminem's disc yet. I'd like to. I like what I've heard by so far.

Matthew, in a way, Bach, Mozart and the others have already come and gone. Most people would not be able to identify any of their material, much less listen to it. A lot pop will also fade, but a lot of it will stand the test of time, as much as the classical composers have.

You said it Matt.

Yeah Cube is awesome too. And he hasn't totally sold out like Dre. I wonder if I could get Cop Killer off Napster or something like it.

Possibly. I got my copy of the disc before the big controversy. A friend of mine had made a big deal out of Body Count, so I went and bought the disc. Then came the storm. Nobody, that I know of, ever quoted the most damning lines of the song: "What do you want to be when you grow up?" "COP KILLER!" "Good choice."

Ice used to throw copies of the single out into the audience when he performed live.

Brian, I agree with you totally. It's sickening to hear Dr. Dre whine about how bad his life is. He's a rich, famous producer and his albums still sell millions of copies despite Napster and despite his increasingly whiny lyrics. What does he have to complain about? Now NWA did some great rap and they complained as well but they weren't whining. So I'll take the old school any day.

Worst line in a rap song: "I want it all/money fast cars diamond rings gold chains and champange each and every d@mn thing"

Ugh.

Best line: "F*ck tha police comin straight out the underground/a young nigga got it bad cause I'm brown/and all the other colors of police think/they have the authoirty to kill a minority"

http://www.basementalism.com/ for some GOOD rap, not corporate rap (CoRap. ••••!.

DOWN WITH EMINEM!

I think "Real" rap died the same day Tupac Shakur did.

Gangster rap has GOT to go! And please take P-Diddy, Puff Daddy, or whatever the hell Sean Combs is calling himself this week, away with it! He's only done one good rap song in his entire freakin' career: "It's All About The Benjamins"

Eminem is a overrated no-talent. If people didn't think he was funny, he'd be begging for change on the streets.

And Webber? You're only quoting NWA because Rage Against The Machine did a cover version of F The Police! I prefer 911 Is A Joke by Public Enemy, but that isn't my favorite P.E. song. I'll give you a clue:

Base. How low can you go?

"Night of the Living Baseheads"?

D'oh! It's not "Night Of the Living Baseheads". It's "Fight the Power". (And if that's wrong, it's "Power To the People". It's on Fear Of A Black Planet, I know that much.)

Its "Fight the Power". "Night of the Living Baseheads" is cool, too.

Funny thing is, I like the version of "Bring The Noise" that they did with Anthrax, but I can't stand the original, all-P.E. version!

My top 5 favorite rap songs of all time:

1. "King of Rock" by Run DMC
2. "Freaks Come Out At Night" by Whoodini
3. "I'm Bad" by LL Cool J
4. "Wild, Wild West" by Kool Moe Dee

and.....

5. "Turn This Mutha Out" by MC Hammer


Note: No white rappers or modern stuff whatsoever in my top 5, but take a look at the rest of my top 10!....

6. "Hey Ladies" by the Beastie Boys
7. "Intergalactic" by the Beastie Boys
8. "Shake Yer A**" by Mystikal (Shove the version called "Shake It Fast", which was made for MTV nd Wal-Mart, IMHO)
9. "If I Ruled The World" by Kurtis Blow
10."Baby Got Back" by Sir Mix-A-Lot


I intentionally left out any rap\rock combos and any songs with singing in them. That's why "Walk This Way" isn't on the list.

I'll probably get labeled a troll for this, but what the hey--this is really NOT intended as an attack against anyone. However, I have to agree with Matthew (for the most part) in his opinion of Rap.

Rap rarely contains "singing" or "melody," but rather someone speaking to a rather elementary beat (of course, as you can imagine, that makes me less disposed to enjoy "spoken word" music as a whole).

And this is less of an artistic comment on rap, and more of a question about the artists themselves, but why, oh why, do many of these guys make millions of dollars and then CHOOSE to stay in the hood, carry pistols, and get themselves into legal troubles!?! Are they trying to be pro-football players :o) Seriously, though, it's great to retain your "roots" and all, but since when is being armed an artistic choice? I realize that this isn't all rappers, but it seems to be more focused on that genre of artist.

Having said that, there are artists and songs that do put more talent into their music than the "if I speak quickly enough, people will assume I'm talented," I just wish there were more of them.

Finally, Ebonics is NOT a language, no matter what some people in California think :o) Also, while rap tends to do well in beat and meter, it tends to have a much weaker rhyme-scheme, for instance, brown and undergroun"D" do not rhyme.

Well, if no one else responds to this, I guess I will. But just not now. I'm kinda pressed for time, and I want to organize my thoughts some more. (And hope someone else steps in.)

"Well, to be technically correct, rap is not music. A singer is somebody who sings notes. A rapper is somebody who talks. I'm not denigrating it. In the `50s beatniks were playing the bongos and reciting poetry. They couldn't sing. But neither could Bob Dylan and that never stopped him." - Billy Joel from the June 25th, 2001 issue of People

Yeah, I know. He's hardly the fountain of wisdom here. I just think it's interesting how similar his statement, and Ghel and Matthew's are.

Before I really get into this, let's keep in mind, I'm not the biggest expert on rap around here. (I kept hoping one of the others guys who knew more would answer Ghel first. No such luck.) Currently, I probably have only a couple dozen rap discs in my collection. Let's also keep in mind that I be white, with some Cherokee blood in me. Whatever comments I make about the black community is very much an outsider's point of view, and could very easily be wrong. The same holds true for what I say about rap/hip hop. End of the disclaimer, on with the rant.

Whereas music in general is based on melody, rap is based primarily on the beat, on rhythm. The words a rapper uses is meant to be as much a part of the beat as the drum. Words become a percussion instrument. Because of the percussive nature of rap, it is generally, I think, hard for those who are raised on melodic music to get into it. Rap/hip hop rarely has a tune you can hum. It's meant to be danced to.

I don't think the vocalization in rap is called "singing" anyway. It's called "rhyming".

As far as rap artists staying in the 'hood, well it's all a part of "Keeping it real". (I hate that phrase. I lead a pretty boring life, but it's real to me.) There's a sense that if you're going to rhyme about being a gangsta, you can't do it living in a mansion. You've gotta live on the street. You write what you know about, and if you don't have a gun, if you don't live in the 'hood, how can you write about being a gangsta? (It's called an imagination.) To do anything else would be fronting.

Of course, some of these kids have always lived that life. They've always carried guns. Have always been gangstas. Anything else is foreign to them.

Then there is always the fear that if you live in outside the 'hood, you're a Tom, trying to pass for white. You're turning your back on your people. Now that you've got the bling bling, you think you better than your people. So to maintain the illusion that you're still down wit it, you stay in the hood. (Being rich automatically creates a gulf between performer and audience.) Again, it's all part of "keeping it real".

There are, of course, exceptions. Will Smith sure as hell ain't livin' in no hood. Neither is Ice-T. The Fresh Prince was never gangsta anyway (and could never fool anyone into thinking otherwise). Besides, thanks to his TV show, nobody can see him living anywhere but Bel-Air. Ice-T has the reputation that makes his living in a mansion okay. He's already proved himself to be a brother.

As far as ebonics goes, while I agree with you, Ghel, I'm not a linguist, so whatever I say would only be guesswork. (Like all the bandwidth I just used up right now isn't.)

Been awhile since I've debated with you, Ghel. (Since the Gun Control debate on PM.) Hope this helps you out.

Now, maybe some who knows what they're talking about will post.

Benn, Ghel, I'm not a linguist either, but when the whole Ebonics bullsh*t started, I read a couple of articles on it by linguists. Both said its not a language. Now here's the big surprise (and I don't mean to sound racist; I'm white, and I'm just stating a fact).... some linguist, who was black, later tried to say that it was. Fortunately, he was discredited by about a dozen other linguists who offered proof that it isn't. I believe he was also being paid by some group in California that was behind the whole Ebonics thing to begin with.

At most, Ebonics is a type of slang. You could also argue, technically, that its a dialect. But you'd have to do a LOT of arguing to prove that!

I agree. By making it a language California was basically implying that white people are "too perfect" to use slang. That's f-ing stoopid dawgs!

Because of the percussive nature of rap, it is generally, I think, hard for those who are raised on melodic music to get into it.

I'm sorry, I just thought this was funny. You see, I'm a percussionist, and a pretty good one at that. Yet I'm one of the only people I know that finds rap abhorrent. I'm beginning to think it's just a personality defect.

No offense taken, my friend. I did think of you when I wrote that, Matt. It's part of the reason I said "generally." In the begining I was dead set against rap, too. It was a matter of little by little hearing songs I like. I think Timex Social Band's "Rumors" was the first rap/hip hop song I got to liking. Then, because I kept hearing them at the topless clubs I was going to at the time, came Salt N Pepa's "Push It" and Grand Master Flash's "White Lines (Don't Do It)". Not long after that I heard L.L. Cool J's "Mama Said Knock You Out". I finally went out and bought my album Fear of a Black Planet by Public Enemy, and decided rap wasn't so horrible after all. I'm not a major fan of it, mind you, I have to be in the mood to hear it. I dunno. I guess when it comes down to it, there's probably not a genre of music that won't have at least one song I like in it.

But don't worry, if it is a "personality defect", it's one you share with a lot of people. Most of them my age.

This is the sort of story that really does warm the cockles of your heart. 'Spec.