I've heard numerous times that all classical music is good, and that music has gone down the drain in the past 100 years and especially in the past 20. I get strange looks when I laugh at this. The reason that classical music seems to good is because there have been many generations in the screening process. The tunes that weren't good were weeded out long ago, leaving us the good stuff. Thats why each generation of music seems worse than the last, less screening process. Thankfully, in 100 years, most of today's "boy bands" will have gone the way of the Dodo.

I agree with that.

That doesn't mean that all classical music is good. It means that all calssical music that people listen to today is good because they weeded out the bad long ago. BTW Dennis Miller said this same thing but applied it in a broader way. "The reason that everything from the past seems so good is because we only remember the good. Most films, TV shows, and music from the 50s was •••• and what we still watch today is what little good their was" or something to that effect.

Brian, that was my point.

I don't think anyone would disagree that there were bad tunes a century ago. The point is it is worrying if we can as a generation produce nothing else. Whereas they could only manage symphonies, amazing and moving anthems and hymns, we have the tribal war dance/mating ritual music of rock, and the rap music that makes murder and rape a desireable thing and criticism of crime racist.

Peter.

While I've always known that there have been books, plays, songs and even movies that have fallen by the wayside over the years, I've never quite thought of it as a filtering process. Though I'm a fairly unskilled listener where classical music is concerned (I have very little in my collection right now. I'm in a very slow process of learning the genre.), I would still be interested in hearing some of the lost works. It's possible that some those forgotten pieces were good, that, if re-evaluated today, might to be classics also. Even they aren't, there's a lot of songs I like that couldn't by any stretch of the imagination be called classics, or have simply been forgotten by the general public. The same could hold true for lost orchestral works.

Well here's how *I* see things...

Many people complain that today's pop music is formulaic, especially the stuff from the Backstreet Boys et al. and all that Trance music. Yet the very principle has been going on for ages, especially in the 60s, with bands I'd never even heard of, and only the very best stand the test of time. (Incidentally, I had heard a 60s-only radio station recently and was surprised at the number of unheard-of bands: has anyone heard of The Five Americans anymore? ["Western Unionnnnnnnnnnn, duh d-duh d-duh, duh-d-duh-d-duh..."])

As for classical music, yes I agree that it is very good and even relaxing and therapeutic in certain situations. But, as a musician friend of mine once said, "you hear one Mozart overture and you've heard them all". Listen to the overtures of Mozart (say, "The Marriage of Figaro", "The Impressario", "Cosi Fan Tutte", and "Die Zauberflote"), and they all have this innate pattern that proved to be a winner in the social circles of Vienna. Not that I'm comparing Mozart to today's pop music, but my point is that music has always had the opportunity to please the audience, and often may seek this pleasuring as opposed to seeking innovation. Not to say that Mozart wasn't innovative (he was very innovative, actually) but that he knew what the audience wanted.
Maybe there is a never-before-heard Mozart overture and operetta we have never heard before, but we can guess what it sounds like. On the other hand, is it because we've analysed the msuic of Mozart to death? Or maybe there was a reason Wolfgang Amadeus himself decided not to release that proverbial unheard hit?

Brian, that was my point.

And my point is that the name of this board is incorrect.

Peter, what about all of the rap music that doesn't glorify rape and crime, all of the stuff that is just about dancing and having a good time.

Sven, I've always been able to get a rise out of people by calling Mozart "trivial". It's an exaggeration of course, but you have hit on a point.

Mozart (and all them dudes back in the olden days) did most of their work for hire, for their patrons. Of course their patrons were going to want what was "popular". Rather like the studios wanting all the boy bands to sound alike.

It's just that Mozart managed to write *GOOD* music that was fit the popular mold...

Remember, Shakespeare wasn't considered great in his time. He wrote for the lowest common denominator that would pay to see his plays. Many artists who came to fame are like this.

Well, Shakespeare did get plenty of accolades in his time -- in 1598, Francis Meres wrote that "as the soule of Euphorbus was thought to live in Pythagoras: so the sweete wittie soule of Ovid lives in mellifluous & hony-tongued Shakespeare." He went on to add that

"As Plautus and Seneca are accounted the best for comedy and tragedy among the Latins, so Shakespeare among the English is the most excellent in both kinds for the stage; for comedy, witness his Gentlemen of Verona, his Errors, his Love Labour's Lost, his Love Labour's Won, his Midsummer's Night Dream, and his Merchant of Venice; for tragedy, his Richard II, Richard III, Henry IV, King John, Titus Andronicus, and his Romeo and Juliet."

And this was in 1598, before his greatest plays had been written!

It's just that Mozart managed to write *GOOD* music that was fit the popular mold...

You've hit the nail right on the head there. Amen.

I find Peter's point about today's music encouraging sex and violence rather amusing. Yeah, like there were never fistfights and riots at classical music concerts. (Stravinsky, "The Rite Of Spring.") Like no classical musician was ever a lust object. (Faranelli.)

I do think that some classical music that's still around today is crud. Usually boring crud that's kept alive by people who wish to appear classy and sophisticated without doing the work of acquiring musical knowledge and developing their own tastes.

I *really* wish I could go back in time to be at the Paris premiere of Le sacre du printemps in 1912. I'd love to participate in a classical music riot!

Of course would no doubt object to that particular piece's subject matter, what with all those PAGAN dances and sacrifice...

And hey, Peter, why not check out some film music and say that nothing good is produced nowadays?

Or go listen to some Anime soundtracks like Akira or Ghost in the Shell.

As for the comment that "music has gone down the drain" in the past 100 years - what nonsense!

Unless, of course, the likes of Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, and Rachmaninov produced nothing in interest.

Ooh, Stravinsky... I don't like Rachmaninov, though.

My favorite composer of all time is Holst, who, I'm pretty sure, was at his height this century.

Though I can't complain about "La Donne e Mobile"! I hope I got that right...

You don't like Rachmaninov??????

What about his 2nd and 3rd piano concertos? Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini?

I'm sorry, it's just that I've come to associate him with the dullest radio station in town. I think they're NPR most of the day, but later at night they switch to an all-classical program, and they never seem to play anything that I like.

Well, I guess you're a little far from Canada to pick up CBC Radio. Oh well, the programming on Radio 2 "Classics and Beyond" is generally very good.

Here in Louisiana, yes, I'd say we're a bit far. Oh well, I think I can get over it.

I found a great CD at the library the other day. I've been looking for a year for an album with Holst's band suites, any of them, on it. Until yesterday, I hadn't found a single one. I saw this one as I was walking by the rack of CDs to the checkout desk and immediately did a double take. The recording itself is of Frederick Fennell conducting the Cleveland Symphonic Winds. It's also got some Handel and Bach on it, but I haven't been looking for *their* stuff for a year now. I'm very pleased.

What about his 2nd and 3rd piano concertos? Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini?

Josh G, once again we have something in common. Those pieces are some of my favourite piano-orchestra pieces and I acquired the first and third of those pieces on CD a while back. Incidentally, has anyone noticed the resemblance between the second movement of Rachmaninov's 2nd piano concerto and Eric Carmen's biggest UK hit "All By Myself"?

And if you like "Rach 2" can I suggest you take a listen to the 2nd Symphony too - because that is superb also.

The 2nd symphony is superb - I've even played it twice in one month for two different orchestras with two completely different interpretations. It's one of my favourite symphonies.