• SWIII: Revenge of the Sith (post-movie board) June 26 - 1:15 am

• SWIII: Revenge of the Sith (post-movie board II) June 23 - 4:48 am

SPOLIER ALERT! SPOLIER ALERT! SPOLIER ALERT!

Release Date: May 25, 2005.

Would that make it a space odyssey? Or with apologies to David Bowie, a space oddity?

(Moderator's note, at one point I had the release date as 2001.)

Stop that "Spoiler alert" thing. I came to this site to find a plot summary, not complaints!

I see no one bothered to leave a message since I last logged on! I use this site to atract attention this time. What about Hardware Wars? Shouldn't there be a board for that hillarious parodie?

Yo, Nitpicker5: :-P
I, for, one, LIKE the spoiler alerts.

WHAT? You want to be in the dark about these movies?!

I think most people are in the dark at the movies. :)

oooh ooooh I heard a spoiler for this film- apparently Anakin becomes Darth Vader at the end of this one and the first thing he does is slaughter all those desperates who nitpick a 2-minute trailer for a film not due out for six months.
Also I believe that Boba Fett turns up and says "You know Anakin- we oughta teach those Stormtroopers how to bang their heads on cross-beams and lose fights to teddy bears".
It is also revealed that Anakin grew up on the bad streets of New York when he says "You don't know the power of the SOUTH SIIIIDE!!!"

In all honesty I heard James Earl Jones (via his agent) released a press statement in which he announced Lucas asked him to do about 5 minutes worth of dialoge.

Hey Chuck! I'm with Nitpicker5!
Enough with this "SPOILER ALERT" thing, it's getting on my nerves! For God's sake, grow up!

P.S. Don't you DARE make any cracks about me shifting towards the dark side because of this!

Finnaly, someone who dosen't hate me. Then again, he can't or he'd turn to the dark side. *SIGH*

Actually, I'm fairly neutral at this point. :^)

What's :")? Anyway, I'm trying to change my ways. I wonder, will Luke and Leia's mother die, or go into hiding?

N5:

:^) is an attempt at a smiley variation. ("^" is the character you get when you press Shift-6 on the top bar of your keyboard)

I know this might be old news, but here's something I heard a couple of years ago:

The woring title for this film is supposed to be "Fall of The Republic". Any thoughts from the Jedi Council

I guess not. Actually, his board has been missing it's add a message box for some time. This just came to my attention a few moments ago. I now have it fixed. Sorry for the inconvienence, but this problem isn't easy to find. (The admin page says it had an add a message feature, but it didn't.) Thanks chewwie for letting me know this board was acting bad. If it keeps this up, I'll send it to the spice mines of Kessel.

Set you people straight!

Anikan becomes Darth Vadar
Mace Windu will be, in all likelyhood, back
Luke and Leia will appear, as babies, children of Anikan and Amidala.
Just a thought, but I think that Amidala will die in this movie. Remember what Leia said about her mother in 'Return of the Jedi'.

Leia said her mother died when she was *very young*, not when she was born. She does have some memory of her mother.

No, Leia only said that the person she *thought* was her mother died. That in no way means that the person she thought was her mother was Queen Amidala.

Let me watch that scene again, then I'll get back to you on that.

Well, I know she says "my mother died" or something like that. But I mean, the person who died is only the person that she thought was her mother. Just like Luke thought Owen and Beru were his aunt and uncle, yet Owen's Obi-Wan's brother. And, after all, Bail Organa certainly wasn't her father, right?

How do you know that Owen is Obi-Wan's brother? I
had never heard that (though I admitt I have not
done any research on the subject). It dosen't make
sense to me. I mean, in Ep. I, the dialog didn't
indicate that he was too familiar with the place.
Wouldn't he know more if his brother was living
there?

Pretty sure that he said "My brother Owen" in Episode VI or something. Also, there is a LONG time between Episodes 1 and IV, so there is a LONG time in which Owen can move to Tatooine. Or maybe Owen just moved to Tatooine to hide Luke and he'd never heard of it before either.

I don't think it has been mentioned on film yet, but the novel of "Return Of The Jedi", and other books say that Owen is Obi-Wan's brother.

Uncle owen is obi-wan's brother

I bow to everyone's superior knoweldge and wisdom.
Owen is Obi-Wan's brother. However, it will be
interesting if Lucas ever makes an attempt to
explain why Tatooine is the focal point of
everything. I mean, after all, it is where Anakin
is from, where the princess and friends landed,
where Luke is brought to, AND where Jabba has his
headquarters... I suppose it could just be cosmic
coincedence but it would be cool if there was some
sort of explanation involving the force or
something.

i posted this as "jedi jackson" in theforce.net virtual edition:

I have a fair story cooked up about padme's death:

Ben, Mace, Padme-along with the twins-, and Yoda are making a mad dash to get away aboard the "Jedi Escape Crusier". Stormtroopers are closing in on them, and Padme gets seperated and captured. Mace go back to rescue her and...
BEN: Master, we can't just leave them here-
YODA: Go we must, for the galaxy's future we have with us to save.
BEN: But?
YODA: Quickly! Almost apon us the dark army is!
They go off to the ship, and Ben reluctently takes off. Meanwhile, back with Padme and Mace, the troopers catch them, but Mace kills a few. Before he is killed by the troops, Palpatine arrives.
PALPATINE: Stop! Leave them to me.
MACE: You! I will kill you!
Palpatine laughs and raises his hands. Purple lightning emerges from them, crakling with sound.
PALPATINE: Behold, my poor lost jedi, the raw energies of the dark side!
Palpatine shocks him again and again. Padme watches in horror, as the once great jedi gasps his last breath.
MACE: Stay alive...
At that instant, Kia-Mundi(sp?) leaps in from nowhere, knocking around all the stormtroopers, giving Padme the time she needs to escape. As she runs, she slams into a tall figure dressed in black with a flowing cape. She gasps, startled at the sight of this masked warrior.
VADER: Come with me.
PADME Who are you?
VADER: That is not of your concern.
Vader leads her back to where Palpatine is now standing, the dead bodies of Mace and Kia laying at his feet.
PALPATINE: You have done well Lord Vader-
He looks at Padme and smiles
PALPATINE:-or should I say young Skywalker.
PADME: No. That's...not possible he was...killed-
PALPATINE: Yes HE was. He is now my Sith apprentice, Darth Vader.
PADME: Sith?
PALPATINE: Yes, but no matter. It is time for you to die.
PADME: Anni-please, don't let him do this what about-
VADER: You are no longer my wife. I know about you and Obi-Wan.
PADME: What?
PALPATINE: You no what he speaks of now DIE!
A purple flury of lightning cascades from his hands, killing poor Pademe in mere seconds.

Great idea! Vader becomes Vader because of what is refered to as a lava-bath right? Well, why not have a heroic sequnce where Jar Jar tackles Anakin as he's about to kill Obi-Wan, and both of them go into this firey pit, with a weakened Obi-Wan crying in the background?

Why this way? Two birds, one stone. 1: How did Anakin get so damaged he needed that suit to survive, and 2: We get to see jar Jar Binks die!

In all seriousness, that really isn't a bad way to do it, either. Good thinking.

Well, here's how *I* see things: [oh no, not again - everyone]

I don't think the third show should dwell too long on the conversion of the Empire from the ashes of the Old Republic - there needs to be a significant gap between this prequel trilogy and the episode 4 in order for the drama to unfold better behind the scenes. And by significant, I also think the film shouldn't end with obvious goings on - the Anakin-Vader link should remain slightly ambiguous in order for ESB to have an even greater impact. I suggest the climactic fight between Vader (as he is now known) and Kenobi be one of the very last major scenes, ending with Vader's pitiful defeat and an aloof yet inside disappointed Obi-Wan leaving the battle arena. This would then be followed by Kenobi's return and a few shots of our heroes including Luke and Leia's mother, who ought to be seen pregnant with twins (but not have them actually born, named, or separated), and perhaps with a hint as to the mother's future life with Organa, on Alderaan. I wouldn't see Vader again until perhaps the last scene and a bit when parts of him are retrieved by someone (the now-unmasked Emperor Palpatine possibly) hinting that the fallen angel isn't yet totally gone.

In short, wrap up the main plotlines of the first trilogy, set up the middle episodes such that there is a continuation, and do it all so as to not give the whole thing away - leave some subtle clues.

Whaddya think? Huh? Huh?!?

Guardian, you kill Mace twice! The stormtroopers off him, then he's alive again for Palpatine to kill.
Don't be betting on the volcano story BTW. That came from The ROTJ novalization. In that same book Obi-wan tells Luke Owen was his brother. From all indications Ep II will show us Owen was infact Anakin's step brother. So Lucas obviously feels no obligation to the novalizations. Also everytime we've seen Jedi/Sith clash it has been in an industrial background. Or he might just ignore the whole subject and end the third film with everyone apparently living happily ever after. Only time, and George Lucas, will tell.

PREDICTIONS: (after seeing #2)

*The first Death Star will be under contruction.
*Palpatine will no doubt be revealed as Darth Sidious.
*The Clonetroopers will be turned into the stormtroopers
*Yoda will retreat to Dagobah after the Jedi is wiped out.
*Luke & Leia will be born. (Possibly without Anakin's knowledge because he'll be assigned to find out who Darth Sidious is)
*I'd like to see Count Dooku return...however, rumor has it Darth Maul will return with mechanical legs.
*Anakin will become Darth Vader...we'll see an "earlier version" of the mask.
*Anakin & Obi Wan will have a light sabre duel.

Amidala would have to become queen again in order for Leia to be considered a Princess.

Nope, John. Not if she's adopted by Bail Organa.

Huh? You lost me. Is Bail Organa a king? Explain a little further please.

I would like to see the origin of Han Solo & Chewbakka in # 3.

As I understand it Leia was the princess of Aldiran and that title came from her adopted parents, not her real mother. It would be bad for everyone to know she is Amidala's daughter considering that it would make it easier for Vader to find her.

Leia's adoptive father, Bail Organa, is the leader of Alderaan and is called either Prince or Viceroy, from what I read somewhere.

In RotJ, Luke asks Leia about her real mother, she knows she's adopted.

Owen is not Obi-Wan's brother, that was in the RotJ novel, but never spoken onscreen. Owen is Anakin's step-brother.

Darth Maul is dead, gone, not coming back. Dooku will return in Episode III.

I always wondered about the whole "your real mother thing." Remember at that point she might not have know she was adopted. She could have thought Bail Organa's wife WAS her real mom. She might have been the one she was talking about when discribing her to Luke. Tho knowing Lucas I doubt this.

Trying to convince her that she was the natural child of the leader of a planet might prove hard to do seeing as it's not true. Surely the press on the planet would know that her adoptive mother was not pregnant at the time. At this point in the series Luke & Leia have known each other for several years (we don't know exactly how much time has passed between movies) and since he askes her about her real mother so casualy obviously she has told him that she waws adopted.

After seeing Attack of the Clones, I have one hope for this movie-JAR JAR DIES

My Guesses:
Unless this episode spans a few years, I doubt that Amidala will die in it. Leia could remember that her mother was "beautiful and kind but sad". I'm guessing that she wouldn't be able to remember this until she was at least two or three.

I think that Boba Fett will do what Jango failed to: kill Mace.

We'll see star destroyers and maybe even TIEs.

We'll hear James Earl Jones' voice (at least for a few minutes)

I think that Dooku will die, maybe even killed by Anakin.

I agree with your guess that Anakin will kill Dooku and make his journey towards the Dark Side complete. (Reference: ROTJ)

How could Boba Fett be in the next movie? He's only 9 or something in this movie and the next one is supposed to occur 3 years after this one so he'd only be about 12. I don't see how a 12 year old could kill the "Bad Motherf*****" himself, Mace Windu.

See ya later
TUE

Who said the next one takes place 3 years later? Sure it comes out in 3 years but Ep I & EP II take place about 9 years appart.

Fitzie: 10 years.

TUE: He's 14.

Lang: Probably right.

Josh: Old 2-person Y-Wings, early TIE Fighers with only one blaster, and Victory-class Star Destroyers ar esaid to be the craft of the Old Republic during the Clone Wars. So we should see those. We should also see Dreadnoguhts.

TUE: He's 14.

Come again? Are you talking about Boba Fett? Wasn't he cloned at the same time as or after the army (in the last ten years), and specifically not growth-accelerated? That would make him no more than 10.

Um, I believe the Kaminian(sp?) referred to the ones he showed Obi-Wan as the latest batch, plus there alreayd was a full grown batch that we saw in the dining hall. So it's not unreasonable that Boba would be 14.

They said Boba was unchanged. So I guess he would only be 10 standard years old in the next movie. That means he'll be about 14 in the next. You're all right. He probably won't get Mace.

MORE PREDICTIONS:
* Anakin will be kicked out of the Jedi Knights for marrying Padme'...thereby invoking his betrayal of the Jedi Knights.
* Perhaps we'll see the Millenium Falcon and its FIRST owner. (Or at least the construction of the Falcon)
* Perhaps we'll see a younger Gran Moff Tarkin. (OOH! Please! YES!)
* The origin of the Rebellion...possibly led by a younger version of Mon Mothma.

So, is this the movie with the big vocano fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin?

I'm guessing that we won't be hearing "Ben" in this movie. It would keep it as a sort of surprise for Episode IV for future generations (or something to that effect)

I certainly hope so. The "bottomless pit" idea is kinda worn out.

My prediction for the end of Episode III...


A door opens, and, to the Imperial March, Vader walks in, kneels, and says, "What is your bidding, my master?" Then the traditional wipe and closing credits.

Actually, replace "walks" with "stalks"

I'd like to think that Episode III will conclude with the successful heist of the Death Star Plans, thus leading directly into Episode IV.

Their is no need for a heist. Didn't they give them to Dokoo, who when straight to Palpatine whne he got off the planet.

Padme''s death: (IMHO)
Anakin (Vader) kills Padme' himself because Padme' hid the fact that she bore Anakin 2 kids without telling him AND she refuses to tell where they are. (They're with Kenobi who took Leia to Aldaraan to be with Bail Organa & Luke to Dagobah to see if Yoda will train him to become a Jedi. Yoda refuses because Vader would sense the aura of the Force with Kenobi, Luke and Yoda all there at the same time. Also perhaps Luke is too young...therefore, Kenobi retreats to Tattooine)

PERHAPS it will be revealed that Dooku is Anakin's father and the reason why Dooku tried to kill Anakin in Ep. II is because the Dark Side wiped out all affection for Anakin.
This would clear up why Anakin's mom sheepishly said, "There was no father" in SW-TPM

BTW---I suggested the Kenobi stop by Dagobah first because it would clear up what Luke said in SW-TESB when he said, "There's something famailiar about this place"

I thought Vader didn't know he had children at all?

If he didn't, then why kill Padme over it?

And if he did, then has he spent his entire time scouring the universe for this potential "gift" for Palpatine? Especially since they might be Force-sensitive?

Also, I'm just not seeing something here. Does Anakin get Padme pregnant on the honeymoon and then decide he can't handle being married and runs off? Does she transfer the twins to a womb-like incubator because she doesn't want to mess up her figure? I'm not quite sure how Padme managed to hide her pregnancy from Anakin.

Even assuming he sees her when she's two months' pregnant (and not showing), and has to go off to do (insert task that takes him away for almost a year), doesn't he call to talk to her? Wouldn't she tell him ("Hurry home, you're going to be a father")? Wouldn't he be able to sense - via the Force - that there is a couple of hazy nebulous might-be minds always around her?

Maybe he got her pregnant, then ran off to duel with Obi-Wan, hoping to beat Obi-Wan up a bit before going back to enjoy Padme's bed. I dunno.

I'm positive (read; hopeful) that Lucas and whomever his co-writer is (please be Bob Salvatore, please) will find a way to do it. Maybe it can be like in the Pretender. Padme actually get preggers with TRIPLETS, but one of them miscarries and that's what takes Anakin over the edge. OK, not EXACTLY like the Pretender where Ms. Parker's mom was told her boy was stillborn but in fact he was taking my Mr. Raines and is actually Ms. Parker's brother (man I gotta stop watching TNT).

Well, whatever happens, I hope that Fall of the Republic is and STAYS the title. AOTC was an AWESOME movie, but it's still a stoopid title.

GASP!

Something else just occured to me!

Remember that case of the woman who wanted to use her deceased-in-a-car-accident husband's sperm to have a baby? What if Anakin has some DNA available somewhere, and at some point Padme believes he's dead? It would also explain her ending up with Bail Organa (the two appear to have ZERO chemistry during their brief scenes together) and how Anakin/Darth Vader wouldn't have known about the twins.

We don't know if she ends up with Bail, only Leia. Plus, the chemistry thing: You mean the fact that he said something and she seemed to completely ignore him?

I don't think that Padme will die in this one.

Vader does know he has children...I mean, why else would he say, "I am your father" in SW-TESB? Just for kicks? ;)

I always assumed Vader figured it out somewhere between Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, or at least he figured out who his son was (Luke's last name is a bit of a give-away), considering that everything he does in Empire is intended to find Luke and turn him, and in Star Wars he seems pretty clueless on the whole matter ("The force is strong with this one..." rather than, "Hey! That feels like my son! Yippee!" )

I wonder if Dagobah is where Dooku or Sidious (if Sidius is somehow a separate entity from Palpatine) dies... "a domain of evil it is." And this is why Yoda remains on the planet... to protect the galaxy from whatever evil resides there.

Additionally, I recall when A.C. Crispin was commissioned to write the Han Solo trilogy a few years ago, that she was specifically instructed to not write about how Chewbacca came to owe Han a life debt.

Anyone want to place bets as to whether we'll see a young Han Solo in Episode III?

Sarcasm: It would have to depend how many years before EpIV that one takes place. Maybe we'll see Some T-Wings, and Dreadnoughts, and maybe a younger Thrawn too. That'd be cool!

I'd wager it will take place about 20ish years before Ep IV because I'd expect to see Luke & Leia's birth.

I had always figured that Anakin knew that he was a father, but only knew that he had a son, and had no idea about a daughter.

Also, that it was Obi-Wan who kept that information from Anakin from the dialogue during the duel in Return of the Jedi.

Brian W: It appears we are already in the age of Star Destroyers during the Clone Wars.

Sarcasem: Those books were written before The Empire Strikes Back. It's known now that Han saved Chewie from slavers, and loss his Imperial Commission.

Funny news: Robbie Williams will play the role of [insert your guess here] in SWIII. It is said that he will spend five weeks next year filming.

Where'd you hear that from? This is the first I've heard of it (and bare in mind it could go the way of that supposed N'Sync cameo in Attack of The Clones).

Outcast: Actually I think the cameo wasn't cut. I ntoiced a few unusual close-ups on some alien Jedi for no particular reason. Maybe that was them in make-up.

I saw the Robbie "news" today on TV here. But it seems that this rumor is already from early July. Only George Lucas knows for sure...

I think the cameo wasn't cut. I ntoiced a few unusual close-ups on some alien Jedi for no particular reason. Maybe that was them in make-up.

Hmmm... I'll have to remember to watch for that, when I see the DVD. Thanks for pointing that out.

Did you notice that Jimmy Smits was in "Attack of the Clones?" The credits say he played Senator Bail Organa.

Yes, it was a small part, but presumably it set him up for a larger part in this one. You can see him in Senator Palpatine's office (I think) and on the balcony when Yoda says his "Begun the Clone War has" line (definitly). Anyone else remember seeing a picture of him with the beginnings of a beard in what looked like the Falcon though?

test message

Sarcasem: Those books were written before The Empire Strikes Back. It's known now that Han saved Chewie from slavers, and loss his Imperial Commission. - Matt Pesti

Actually, A.C. Crispin's books were written considerably after even Return of the Jedi. You're thinking about the Brian Daley books.

But my point (and, yes, even now... five months later... I remember my point) was that to date the scene in which Han saves Chewie from slavery has not been depicted in any form (novel, film, comic). This is a significant tale in the Han/Chewie relationship. The fact that it hasn't been depicted yet leads me to believe that Lucas is planning to use it in one of the films.

My predictions for Episode 3:

Han will appear, saving Chewie from Imperial slavery.

There will be a battle on the Wookie planet.

Obi-Wan will probably smuggle at least one of the kids (if not both) in the Millenium Falcon's compartments. (Luke and Leia's disparaging comments about the Falcon when they first see it in A New Hope would turn into irony.)

If the Crispin books are accurate, Han saved Chewie around or less than 10 years before ANH.

The twins are born in this film. It's supposed to take place 18 years before Episode IV. I don't think that Han is {that} much older than Luke and Leia. If he is, then he ages very well. Or SW tech can keep you looking young (but it would be no match against the power of the Dark Side)

If Han is 12 during Episode 3, that'd still only make him 30 during ANH. (Han is supposed ot be in his 30's in ANH.

I don't know the specifics of when Han saved Chewie. So if the Crispin books stated it happened ten years before, then it's probably accurate (seeing as it was written after Lucasfilm
licensing took an active interest in making certain the tie-ins fit into the chronology).

If the SW: Encyclopedia is to be believed, he's only 29 in ANH. He does look older than that though.

I don't think that there is a specific date either but he rescues him sometime between the first and second book. The first book takes place about ten years before ANH.

Rumor Time!

Unconfirmable sources (read; people who have too much time and a modem on their hands) are saying that the working title for EpIII is Balance of the Force.

I'd take that with a real grain of salt -- I remember hearing that about Episode I, as well.

How about this? If Episode III won't be called Fall of the Republic, how about Fall of the Jedi? That would give more resonance to Episode VI's title, Return of the Jedi.

RUMOR: Chewbakka will be in this episode.

Actually, this is not a rumor... this is confirmed on the official Star Wars website.

But it's one step closer to making my predictions accurate.

I seem to also recall a mention on the website that at least two major sets from the original trilogy will be reconstructed for Episode 3. My guesses are the swamp in Dagobah and the interiors of the Millenium Falcon.

Maybe Kenobi's home.

Or the bridge of a Star Destroyer (albeit an early model of one). The logo that Star Wars.com used for this segment in their newsletter used an old sketch of the bridge from TESB.

John A: RUMOR: Chewbakka will be in this episode.

Actually you're wrong. Chewbacca will be in the movie.

From the horse's mouth (or at least Ryan Church, conept design supervisor):

Q: Will Episode III look like it will lead into the 1970s, so it matches up with Episode IV?
RC: "To some extent it will. There are certain cultures and technologies in this new movie that will reflect the 1970s look. It's going to be a subtle thing, but it will make sense when you see it. To us in the Art Department the '1970s look' is actually just the look of the Star Wars universe during its dark ages rather than the waning glory days portrayed in the prequels."

[Insert joke here.]

There's a new droid I'd like to introduce to you Sven...his name is...R-D-R-R!

Oh, where's a magnet when you need one...

She'll be comin' 'round the mountain when she comes!

You know, this will be our last chance to finally see the fabled womp-rats.

The womp-rats are rumored to appear in Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, The Special Extended Version Directors Edition: Redux due out in 2011

2011,

Isn't there a possible title out there right now? Like, Revenge of the Sith or something?

Darth....You're joking, right?

Lucas must not use "of the" in another title! can't he show a little creativity?
My guess, it'll be more like "The Jedis' Last Stand"

Anonymous: Well if it's a good title like "Fall of the Republic" then I don't see what the problem is. Beisdes, we've only had TWO SW flicks with "of the" in them. Attack of the CLones and Return of the Jedi. We've also had two that start with "The." (Menace and Empire). Does that mean it can't start with "The" either? Hardly seems fair since it is LUCAS'S MOVIE, not yours.

Of course, for me the most important question is, will lucas be able to make a good movie, like the first trilogy, or will he disappoint the fans with nonsense like TPM and AOTC? I wouldn't mind a boring title, if Lucas manages to get a good script writer and its a good movie. vice versa, a good title won't save a boring movie for me.

I agree with you 100% on TPM, but I actually LIKED AotC, and I just don't get why so many people hated it. yeah, it's not as good as ANH or ESB, but it's better than TPM or RotJ.

It's not better than ROTJ. But that's my opinion.

In my opinion, the only bad thing about ROTJ were the Ewoks. The only bad thing about AOTC were the love scenes (and maybe some of Hayden's more emotional scenes). I could tolerate the Ewoks a lot more than I could tolerate that love story.

And theforce.net does believe that "Revenge of the Sith" is in the running for title of episode III. If that did become the title, it would sort of parallel Episode VI's title. Interesting.

IMO, if Lucas actually learned how to write and direct properly (as opposed to basically going plug and play as he did with the last two), that's about the only thing that will probably save this movie.

Whenever i watch AotC now, i always use the DVD and only watch from teh start of the Arena battle. i couldn't stand seeing the beginning parts more than 3 times, and so i watch the good parts whenever i feel like seeing the movie.

Too bad Hayden is in this one too.

-JM

Actually, he is a good actor (I've seen him in other stuff and always liked him in it), I think it's just how Lucas saw the character.

I'm just crossing my fingers that when Lucas et al say that this is going to be the most adult and most hands-on of the series, they've got approximately the same definitions of the terms that I do...

Actually, he is a good actor (I've seen him in other stuff and always liked him in it),

You're absolutely right. Hayden is a good actor (try Shattered Glass or Life as a House). Something just went beserk in AotC.

I just saw an article on www.theforce.net that show what looks like the official teaser poster. It's titled "Star Wars: Episode III -- The Rise of The Empire".

Anyone think this board should be updated?

Something just went beserk in AotC

He was seduced by the dark side...

Actually, it was probably the fact that he was supposed to be whining and acting immature, (not grown up; ie Annie)

Many things in AotC were messed up or contrived.

For Example: Obi Wan light saber skills couldn't be as good as Ep 1 because they need Yoda to be the best.

I just renamed the board "SWIII: The Rise of The Empire" as per the Jedi Outcast's comments.

Not so fast ccabe. Thats fan fic.

Adam's right. I know my luck and there's no way that 2nd favorite EpIII title (my first being Fall of the Republic of course) would end up being picked. even if the movie's good, even if it winds up exceeding everyone's expectations, odds are it'll have a cruddy title.

I took the incorrect subtitle off. I'll put the correct one up as soon as I find out what it is.

Guys, if you checked www.theforce.net, you'd see that while the "Rise of the Empire" subtitle is rumoured, it is very strongly supported.

JO: That doesn't make it offical though. What'd make it oficial is if starwars.com has it as the title, since starwars.com is the OFFICIAL site for the franchise, and not a fan site like theforce.net.

The next Star Wars should be better in one respect. Hopefully, we won't see Natalie Portman. She is the worst actress I've ever seen in a sci-fi movie.
Makes Ann Robinson in "War of the Worlds" look like Meryl Streep!

I felt Ann Robinson was good in War of the Worlds.
That's one of the BEST movies from the 50's

JO: That doesn't make it offical though.

Yeah besides, everyone knows its going to be called "Bride of the Midi-Chlorians." Uhhh, nevermind, I better not joke about that :-/

Martian: [unintelligble]
Ann Robinson: You are the weakest link. Goodbye.

Most critics really ripped Mrs. Robinson's acting in "War of the Worlds". I don't know why. I thought she gave a decent performance.
I agree about Natalie Portman. She is just plain awful. She won't be missed in the next one.

The Brunching Shuttlecocks have a very funny page about the subtitle of Ep. III. My personal favorite is "The Day of the Princess". It reminds me of Jackie on "That 70's Show".

http://www.brunching.com/cgi/starwarstitles.cgi

I tried it and got "Son of Jar-Jar".

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-05/19/09.00.rumors

Rumored title - Birth of the Empire.

Aayla Secura is suppose to have a larger part in this film? Didn't general Grevious splatter her against the wall in the final episode of "The clone wars?"

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-06/15/10.30.film

Lucas confirms that the title is... (highlight to read):

NOT "Rise of the Empire." Sorry, that's it.

apparently the powers that be have decided to trim our wait by 6 days, the official release date according to Starwars.com is now May 19, 2005, what a graduation present!!

"Hopefully, we won't see Natalie Portman. She is the worst actress I've ever seen in a sci-fi movie."

Oh how quickly we forget Lori Petty in Tank Girl.

Spoilers below

http://www.grilled-sarlacc.com/ep3/c/

Whoever is playing Tarkin is the splitting image of Peter Cushing. Major kudos.

I heard that it's Wayne Pygram (Scorpius on Farscape). Looks like he's under a little makeup.

Make up or not...he's STILL a splitting image!

Ladies and Gentleman, we have a title!

http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/bts/production/news20040724.html

Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith

It's not what I was hoping for (Fall of the Republic), but this is good too.

Not bad. I would have been happier with "Fall of the Jedi" as it has more depth to it (Jedi refering to the order or Anakin by name?) Just as you can take "Return of the Jedi" refering to the order or to Anakin himself.
I also am still curious as to what the Sith want revenge for. They apparently wiped each other out. Shouldn't it then be called "Attack of the Sith" or "Victory of the Sith" or some such?
Oh well, I still would have liked "Fall of the Jedi" better but "Revenge of the Sith" is ok. Atleast nobody's going to White Castle.

The Sith want revenge against the Jedi for almost wiping out the Sith 1,000 yrs ago. (According to the site above)

They could have called it "Anikan and Padme go to the White Deathstar".

Ah, so this is where the Star Wars boards are. I didn't realize they had their own boards.

Um... where does all this stuff about Natalie Portman not being in Ep3 come from?

So George finally got the word "Revenge" in a title, huh?

So when's this board going to reflect that in the title?

Great Name, and it has an in-joke. (Revenge of the The Jedi was the first real title for Episode VI.) It's too bad the Sith are only mentioned once (The Books I think) in the latter three movies.

Darth Vader was referred to as a Dark Lord of the Sith in the novelization and other supplemental materials. The Sith were never mentioned in the movies though, until The Phantom Menace.

The screenplay book I have of the original Star Wars (no bloody "A New Hope" or "Episode IV") is subtitled something like "From the Journal of the Whills". I don't recall having heard that term since.

Lucas originally was the have a group called the Whills as outside observers, recording everything. He dropped that idea fairly quickly.

So when's the title going to be updated, Mr. Moderator?

I guess we're waiting for it to come out on DVD before putting the official title up, eh?

Saw the trailer last night on Access Hollywood -- looks promising...

Hey Mod, what the dilio?

See the whole trailer here: http://www.aol.com/starwars/trailer/index.adp?type=lrg

To put it in the simplest terms posisble,

Ho-Ly S***!

So where's the f%#&ing title, mod???

Space for people who don't want the teaser spoiled..


Re: Darth Vader's reveal... ROFL!!! Music was waaaaaaaaay too melodramatic for that image of him strapped to the bed with with arms positioned in that submissive angle. Maybe if the restraints looks more intimidating it would have had a better effect.

And Jedi Outcast... was your post really necessary? One could ask where your courtesy and acknowledgement of the Nitcentral rules are, poster.

Well, I could say the same about the fact that every time I've raised the question at all it's been swept aside. Where's the courtesy there?

(and besides, at least I did my own censoring)

Well, I could say the same about the fact that every time I've raised the question at all it's been swept aside. Where's the courtesy there? - Jedi Outcast

Perhaps the moderator has ben, I dunno... busy. It happens. Relax. You know the title, right? What's the big deal?


(and besides, at least I did my own censoring) - Jedi Outcast

You're right... I should have given you credit for your "censoring," as it certainly kept us completely in the dark as to your meaning. What could "F(percent symbol)(number sign)(ampersand)" possibly stand for? Hmmmmm.... I wonder. Got me stumped!

A very clever disguise, indeed.

(BTW... bleepings, red dots, and dashes don't really disguise your extremely rude, disrespectful meaning)

Fair point about the attitude. I'm sorry.

As for the title... well, it never took this long for the discussion boards on the other movies to reflect their titles once they were announced. The Sci-Fi board has it up properly, but for some reason there's been no mention of it here even though the title's been public for four months.

Perhaps it is time that I proved my point about the dreaful time being taken in posting the official title in the strongest way possible: personal experience.

I have run three web sites over the years, and believe me it doesn't take four months to add four words to two pages.

Pardon me, that should have been "dreadful".

I have run three web sites over the years, and believe me it doesn't take four months to add four words to two pages. - Jedi Outcast

Except it has... so you've actually disproved your point.

Again, you know the title... I know the title... so what's the big deal? Maybe the moderator's been BUSY!!! It happens!

Regarding the teaser...


I can't help but wonder if the scene w/ Vader on the bed will really be in the movie. For some reason, I got the impression that it was made just for the teaser. The dialogue during this scene sounded like it was copied from Episode V.

I actually thought it was an empty Vader suit with dialogue from another scene put over it....

You're right... I should have given you credit for your "censoring," as it certainly kept us completely in the dark as to your meaning. What could "F(percent symbol)(number sign)(ampersand)" possibly stand for? Hmmmmm.... I wonder. Got me stumped!
Really, you could say this about all censoring.

I like the trailer, but I wish it didn't show so much Vader.

Hey, Jedi Outcast. Have you tried emailing the moderator? That might get you some results.

Actually I did, but the e-mail just bounced for some reason.

And Sarcasm, the ridiculous lack of action on this page does not disprove my point. It shows that someone's asleep at the switch.

Well, then what is your point?

I thought your point was that it doesn't take this long to correct the title... my point: it has taken this long, so your point is disproven.

I fail to see how believing someone is asleep at the switch is any different than my point that perhaps the moderator has been otherwise occupied.

And in conclusion, I fail to see why you have to be so worked up and upset about it... unless you have a particular point of contention with the moderator... perhaps one of a more personal nature.

I'm irritated because there is no logical reason -- workload or not -- why it would or should take several months to add a total of eight words. I can do that in five minutes, if that.

Oh geez, just get a Roving Mod to do it and spare us this inspid arguing!

Good idea -- anyone know one?

From scifi.com:

"At the Palm Springs Film Festival, Star Wars stars Liam Neeson and Samuel L. Jackson both offered hints to USA Today that George Lucas has shot a top-secret cameo of Neeson as Qui-Gon Jinn's ghost, for May's Star Wars: Episode III —Revenge of the Sith."

BTW, about that last post.

SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

can we PLEASE update the name of this board?? BTW http://theforce.net/books/story/Revenge_of_the_Sith_Novelization_Summary_88880.asp

"Enough! This bickering is pointless!"

I find your lack of faith (in the moderator)... disturbing.

It may be disturbing, but it's quite justified.

Where is the guy, in Tahiti?!

SPOILER & potential nit...
S
P
O
I
L
E
R

Apparently, Padme will die in child birth. If true, then Leia's line about remembering her real mother as being sad will be very odd. There was a rumor that the line would be cut from the re-release of Ep VI on DVD, but it wasn't.

Possibly the ULTIMATE SPOILER here.

Careful, people, if this site is accurate, it tells the entire story of EP III, accompanied by many huge screenshots of every pivotal scene.

http://www.tpu.fi/~t4jlaaks/ep3/

Again, I must say, HUGESUPEROMNI spoilers here.

I'll say this. Palpatine & Dooku are sneaky.
The kidnapping of Palpatine was obviously staged.

(posted in the "proper board")

I am so glad I taped The O.C. so I didn't have to sit through an hour of teen angst central in order to see the preview for this. Of course, with all the publicity, they showed it in the last five minutes. Thank the universe for Fast Forward.

It looks, in a word, awesome. I'm not sure I could say that about the previous two, but this one might actually be good! The only thing that would have made it perfect would be to see Jar Jar Binks meet his timely end.

Lucas has just said this film will probably not be suitable for children of five or six - it will get a PG-13 rating in the USA and a 12A in the UK.

I think all parents are going to hate him for this as they try to explain to their 6 yr old Star Wars fans why they can't go and see the much-awaited conclusion to their favourite film saga for another 7 years... 8O

Maybe he's trying to make up for the Ewoks...

yea but no one actually uses PG-13 to keep their kids who are under 13 away from the film. Usually by the time the kids are 8 or 9 most parents will allow them to see a PG 13 film.

sigh, still waiting for the boards name to be updated..... :/

Adam, he's going to change the name anyway, to "Return of the Sith". (If you are under a certain age you might not get that...)

Interesting that he warns against 6 or 7-year-olds against seeing it, considering they were only babies at most when Episode I came out. If they were 6 or 7 at the time, they would be teenagers or so now, the prime audience for this type of "darker" movie.

Hey, I was in my teens (OK, 18) when Star Wars (the Original, no bloody "Episode IV: A New Hope") came out and was just as taken by it as some of the thirtysomethings I know now.

No, I'm not Eric Foreman --- I went to Marine Corps Boot Camp a few weeks after it came out.

BTW, amazing that ccabe was only a few days off in his prediction wayyyy back in 1998!!! (see first post in this thread) But logic dictated that it would be released on a Wednesday or a Friday, as most movies are. They could have released on on May 25th (to respect the release date of the Original -- and it falls on a Wednesday this year!!), but I guess they had to get a few more days in for some reason, and moved it back to the 19th (a Thursday? Why??).

Aw, I had a great time imagining Red threating to put his foot up your ass.

I do get the "Return of the Sith" reference. I still remember arguing with someone on the schoolbus in 2nd grade about how the new Star Wars would be Revenge of the Jedi. Hey, Bantha Tracks said so!

Though considering that it's well documented in the DVDs and on the web, I dispute that you have to be above a certain age to get it (I got it instantly and I'm just a few months younger than RotJ).

Ditto.

Just wondering...
How famous, popular, & well-known are Jedi to the average citizen of the Republic?
Are their names known as well as a King, Queen, or Emperor?
Point being: It seems that EVERYONE knows that Anakin Skywalker goes to the Dark Side in E-III.
Then, in E-IV, a guy called Luke Skywalker goes around thinking that his father Anakin was a good guy. Did noone ever say: "You're the son of that evil no good Anakin who's responsible for the mess we're in?"

In going through my old t-shirts for donations, I came across one that had "Revenge of the Jedi" in the proper font on it. However, I immediately realized at this time that it was just a dealer-printed ripoff shirt as the print quality was not that good.

I do have a valid "Revenge of the Jedi" poster though -- I believe I ordered it through Bantha Tracks.

Just wondering...
How famous, popular, & well-known are Jedi to the average citizen of the Republic?
Are their names known as well as a King, Queen, or Emperor?
Point being: It seems that EVERYONE knows that Anakin Skywalker goes to the Dark Side in E-III.
Then, in E-IV, a guy called Luke Skywalker goes around thinking that his father Anakin was a good guy. Did noone ever say: "You're the son of that evil no good Anakin who's responsible for the mess we're in?"

I don't think it's known to the general populace what became of Anakin Skywalker. Hell, Luke didn't even know, and he was his son!

In any event, according to the Expanded Universe, it's most definitely NOT common knowledge that Anakin = Vader.

I don't think it's known to the general populace what became of Anakin Skywalker. Hell, Luke didn't even know, and he was his son!

Not a great argument, considering that Luke was shipped to a backwater world with little to no Imperial/Republic contact, and the only people who did know about Vader's identity lied through their teeth.

It would seem to me that the Jedi Council should have promoted Anakin to Jedi Master and assigned him to a planet as far away from Coruscant as possible.

So, does a citizen who knows Republic/Empire history believe Ben's story that Vader betrayed & murdered all Jedi including Anakin? Were names of Jedi wiped from history? If Luke were to look up Anakin Skywalker in the Galactic Database, what information (if any) would he see?

Little. I get the impression that looking up info on the Jedi in Palpatine's Empire would be like looking up info on the Jews in Hitler's Germany - not much data, and what is there would be twisted propaganda painting them in a dark light.

Leia seemed to recognize the name Skywalker when Luke barged into her cell and introduced himself, yet didn't have a clue as to Vader being Luke's father (or her own relation, but that's beside the point).

Since Leia not only didn't grow up in a backwater world but also served in the Galactic Senate up until the Emperor abolished it, I'd say if the info was out there for the public, she'd have likely known, especially since she was gathering info for the Rebellion.

Bottom line, I believe the people know the name Skywalker from the good he did earlier, but his turn and misdeeds were not known outside of the Jedi and Sith themselves.

Leia seemed to recognize the name Skywalker when Luke barged into her cell and introduced himself

No she didn't, she said "You're who?", as if she thought he was Joe Schmo from the corner of 3rd and Jefferson.

Anakin's fall happened so quickly there would have been little time to publicly record it.
Heres what the papparazi would have seen.
Anakin shows up at the play and whispers something to Chancellor Palpatine. A few hours later Palpatine shows up infront of the Senate and orders the eradication of the Jedi (with Anakin in tow???).
Thats it. From there he slaughters everyone in the Jedi temp. Obviously out of public view. He then leaves to dispose of the Seperatist leaders. Again obviously out of public view.

In ROTJ, Leia says she remembers her mother...she specifies: "just images". Here's my explanation:

It is possible that Padme' made Holographic messages for Luke & Leia before she died & Leia saw them in her younger years. The messages were lost when Aldaraan was destroyed.

*smacks self in head*

I can't believe none of us thought of that before...

I can't help but wonder if Lucas will show Obi Wan giving Leia to Bail Organa & Luke to Owen & Beru Lars.

Supposedly during production of EP II while in Tunessia (sp) Lucas shot one bit to be used in EP II. Since Tunessia is the location that plays Tatooine many figure that is the scene.

No she didn't, she said "You're who?", as if she thought he was Joe Schmo from the corner of 3rd and Jefferson.

Not at all the way that scene seems to me. It's more as if she's heard of a famous hero from the past, but here's this schmuck with the same last name.

I always took it as she had no idea who he was or why he would be rescuing her.

I agree with Brian... but then again, that was within the context of the time when we didn't know how large a role a Skywalker played in things.

What’s with the title of this board? Why hasn’t it been changed?

Anyway, I read the comic book adaptation, and it was surprisingly good, with no lousy dialogue or boring plot points. Granted, things have to be condensed from the film, but I then read in Playboy that Lucas got some playwright to work on the script. If so, perhaps it’ll be work seeing this film. If anyone wants Spoiler answers to their various questions and predictions from the past couple of years, read on…

Jedi-in-Training: Leia said her mother died when she was *very young*, not when she was born. She does have some memory of her mother.
Luigi Novi: Amidala does indeed die.

Wildstar: No, Leia only said that the person she *thought* was her mother died. That in no way means that the person she thought was her mother was Queen Amidala.
Luigi Novi: Amidala does indeed give birth to twins named Luke and Leia.

Wildstar: Well, I know she says "my mother died" or something like that. But I mean, the person who died is only the person that she thought was her mother. Just like Luke thought Owen and Beru were his aunt and uncle, yet Owen's Obi-Wan's brother. And, after all, Bail Organa certainly wasn't her father, right?
notv: How do you know that Owen is Obi-Wan's brother? I had never heard that (though I admitt I have not done any research on the subject).
Luigi Novi: I remember Owen being Shmii Skywalker’s husband, not Obi-Wan’s brother. If he’s Obi-Wan’s brother, then it’s quite a coincidence that the man who bought Shmii from Watto and married her ended up being also his brother.

Sven of Nine: I don't think the third show should dwell too long on the conversion of the Empire from the ashes of the Old Republic - there needs to be a significant gap between this prequel trilogy and the episode 4 in order for the drama to unfold better behind the scenes.
Luigi Novi: We do see the significant changes, but Episode III does indeed take place 19 years before Episode IV.

Sven of Nine I also think the film shouldn't end with obvious goings on - the Anakin-Vader link should remain slightly ambiguous in order for ESB to have an even greater impact.
Luigi Novi: Unfortunately, we see the Emperor telling him that he will now be known as Darth Vader, and we see him emerge with the Vader outfit at the end of the story, when the Emperor tells him that he accidentally killed Amidala (He brushed her away with the force, causing her to impact on a wall, which I’m guessing is what she died from after giving birth.

Sven of Nine: I suggest the climactic fight between Vader (as he is now known) and Kenobi be one of the very last major scenes…
Luigi Novi: It is. But Amidala does give birth.

John A. Lang: The first Death Star will be under contruction.
Luigi Novi: Yep.

John A. Lang: Palpatine will no doubt be revealed as Darth Sidious.
Luigi Novi: Obviously.

John A. Lang: The Clonetroopers will be turned into the stormtroopers
Luigi Novi: The clone troopers already are stormtroopers. It’s really just a name change.

John A. Lang: Yoda will retreat to Dagobah after the Jedi is wiped out.
Luigi Novi: Yep.

John A. Lang: Luke & Leia will be born. (Possibly without Anakin's knowledge because he'll be assigned to find out who Darth Sidious is)
John A. Lang: I'd like to see Count Dooku return...however, rumor has it Darth Maul will return with mechanical legs.
John A. Lang: Anakin will become Darth Vader...we'll see an "earlier version" of the mask.
Luigi Novi: Same version. We’ve seen it in commercials, even.
*Anakin & Obi Wan will have a light sabre duel.

John A. Lang: Amidala would have to become queen again in order for Leia to be considered a Princess.
Luigi Novi: Doesn’t happen. Isn’t her title derived from the Organas’ status?

Starkist: Darth Maul is dead, gone, not coming back. Dooku will return in Episode III.
Luigi Novi: And is killed by Anakin in the beginning, at the behest of Palaptine.

Adam: I always wondered about the whole "your real mother thing." Remember at that point she might not have know she was adopted. She could have thought Bail Organa's wife WAS her real mom. She might have been the one she was talking about when discribing her to Luke. Tho knowing Lucas I doubt this.
Luigi Novi: She made this statement when Luke asked her about her mother. Luke was talking about his own biological mother, and therefore, Leia’s biological mother as well.

MikeM: After seeing Attack of the Clones, I have one hope for this movie-JAR JAR DIES
Luigi Novi: Unfortunately, he does not.

JoshM: I think that Boba Fett will do what Jango failed to: kill Mace.
Luigi Novi: Boba Fett isn’t in the film. Anakin severs Mace’s right arm, and Palpatine throws him out the window with the Force.

JoshM: We'll see star destroyers and maybe even TIEs.
Luigi Novi: Only the versions of them from 19 years earlier.


Brian Fitzgerald: EP II take place about 9 years apart.
Luigi Novi: Except that Boba first appeared in EP II. He wasn’t in I.

John A. Lang: Anakin will be kicked out of the Jedi Knights for marrying Padme'...thereby invoking his betrayal of the Jedi Knights.
Luigi Novi: No, but one of the things that sets up conflict between him and the Jedi (and helps Palpatine get influence over him) is when Palpatine insists on Anakin being his representative on the Jedi Council, which is highly improper, as the Council sees it. They reluctantly agree, but refuse to recognize Anakin as a Master. Obi-Wan does visit Amidala during the story, and says that he can tell that they’re in love, but doesn’t know that they’re married.

John A. Lang: Perhaps we'll see the Millenium Falcon and its FIRST owner. (Or at least the construction of the Falcon)
Luigi Novi: Neither, I’m afraid. But we do see Chewbacca, and the other Wookies on Kashyyk.

John A. Lang: * Perhaps we'll see a younger Gran Moff Tarkin. (OOH! Please! YES!)
Luigi Novi: Sorry.

Influx: I'd like to think that Episode III will conclude with the successful heist of the Death Star Plans, thus leading directly into Episode IV.
Luigi Novi: Except that it doesn’t lead directly into it. It ends with Vader learning that he accidentally killed Amidala, and the twins being deposited on Alderaan and Tattoine, and Kenobi leaving into the sunset. Episode IV takes place 19 years after Ep II.

John A. Lang: PERHAPS it will be revealed that Dooku is Anakin's father and the reason why Dooku tried to kill Anakin in Ep. II is because the Dark Side wiped out all affection for Anakin.
Luigi Novi: Nope.

John A. Lang: BTW---I suggested the Kenobi stop by Dagobah first because it would clear up what Luke said in SW-TESB when he said, "There's something famailiar about this place"
Luigi Novi: The only thing we see of Dagobah is when Yoda sets up camp there at the very end after saying good bye to Chewbacca and the other Wookie on Kashyyk.

MJ: Also, I'm just not seeing something here. Does Anakin get Padme pregnant on the honeymoon and then decide he can't handle being married and runs off? Does she transfer the twins to a womb-like incubator because she doesn't want to mess up her figure? I'm not quite sure how Padme managed to hide her pregnancy from Anakin.
Luigi Novi: Amidala tells Anakin when she’s pregnant. They’re both happy over it. No one hides it, except from the Jedi Council. There are no triplets.

Brian Webber: What if Anakin has some DNA available somewhere, and at some point Padme believes he's dead? It would also explain her ending up with Bail Organa
Luigi Novi: She doesn’t. Bail has a wife.

Darth Sarcasm: Anyone want to place bets as to whether we'll see a young Han Solo in Episode III?
Luigi Novi: A losing bet, I’m afraid.

Daroga: You're absolutely right. Hayden is a good actor (try Shattered Glass or Life as a House). Something just went beserk in AotC.
Luigi Novi: The same thing that went berserk in Episode I: Lucas. Even Ewan McGregor enunciated his lines poorly. I’m sure this and Jake Lloyd’s poor performance were Lucas’ doing

John A. Lang: It is possible that Padme' made Holographic messages for Luke & Leia before she died & Leia saw them in her younger years. The messages were lost when Aldaraan was destroyed.
Luigi Novi: Except that Leia would’ve phrased it that way, but didn’t. The “images” she spoke certainly sounded to me like live memories.

Anonymous: Not at all the way that scene seems to me. It's more as if she's heard of a famous hero from the past, but here's this schmuck with the same last name.
Luigi Novi: How do you get that from “who?” It simply sounds like she’s confused and wondering who this guy is. I don’t see how “You’re who?” = “Oh, I remember that name.” Since when does the word “who” indicate recognition?

Re:Death Star Construction
It might be the prototype, used to test out the concept, that turns up in a later novel, (Essentially it's a large framework, & will never be completed as such), not the completed
Death Star from Star Wars:A New Hope ...

Daroga: You're absolutely right. Hayden is a good actor (try Shattered Glass or Life as a House). Something just went beserk in AotC.
Luigi Novi: The same thing that went berserk in Episode I: Lucas. Even Ewan McGregor enunciated his lines poorly. I’m sure this and Jake Lloyd’s poor performance were Lucas’ doing

Yes Lucas has spent too much time looking at computer monitors and special effects stuff and not enough watching performance of the actors.

Luigi Novi: Luigi Novi: Boba Fett isn’t in the film. Anakin severs Mace’s right arm, and Palpatine throws him out the window with the Force
Yeah, thanks, I know.

Luigi Novi: What’s with the title of this board? Why hasn’t it been changed?
Ah, deja vu.

Hey Luigi, I know the comic is out and all that but since the movie hasn't actually premiered yet, could we get some spoiler warnings?

John A. Lang: * Perhaps we'll see a younger Gran Moff Tarkin. (OOH! Please! YES!)
Luigi Novi: Sorry.

Maybe not in the comic, but according to IMDB, Governor Tarkin wil be portrayed by none other than Wayne "Scorpy" Pygram.

JoshM: Hey Luigi, I know the comic is out and all that but since the movie hasn't actually premiered yet, could we get some spoiler warnings?
Luigi Novi: Yes, and indeed if you read my post above, you’ll see that I placed one in the very beginning of it. Granted, I didn’t format it in bold or red, but if you read the first paragraph, you should’ve seen it?

Moderator? Perhaps you could format my Spoiler Warning above to make it more obvious? Or perhaps a Roving Mod?

Darth Bodger: Re:Death Star Construction It might be the prototype, used to test out the concept, that turns up in a later novel, (Essentially it's a large framework, & will never be completed as such), not the completed Death Star from Star Wars:A New Hope ...
Luigi Novi: (Spoiler) Correct. We see the large weapons dish, and some components attached to it.

Brian Fitzgerald: Yes Lucas has spent too much time looking at computer monitors and special effects stuff and not enough watching performance of the actors.
Luigi Novi: I have a feeling that it’s not that he wasn’t watching them, but that he gave poor instructions on the style of how to do them. Why else would McGregor have over-pronounced his lines the way he did in that bombastic manner in Phantom Menace?

Gordon Lawyer: Maybe not in the comic, but according to IMDB
Luigi Novi: You might be right. Perhaps he was cut from the comic, or maybe I just didn’t notice him by face alone. (Maybe he was not addressed by name in the comic.)

Behold... the new Darth Vader!!!

Embrace the Dark Side, Goofy!

I can imagine his motto: "It's a small world, after all. And now I'm going to blow it up!"

Brian Fitzgerald: EP II take place about 9 years apart.
Luigi Novi: Except that Boba first appeared in EP II. He wasn’t in I.

Okay... what did one of those have to do with the other exactly?

MJ: Also, I'm just not seeing something here. Does Anakin get Padme pregnant on the honeymoon and then decide he can't handle being married and runs off? Does she transfer the twins to a womb-like incubator because she doesn't want to mess up her figure? I'm not quite sure how Padme managed to hide her pregnancy from Anakin.

Luigi Novi: Amidala tells Anakin when she’s pregnant. They’re both happy over it. No one hides it, except from the Jedi Council. There are no triplets.

Who said anything about triplets?

I remember Owen being Shmii Skywalker’s husband, not Obi-Wan’s brother. If he’s Obi-Wan’s brother, then it’s quite a coincidence that the man who bought Shmii from Watto and married her ended up being also his brother. - Luigi Novi

I think Wildstar's confusion stems from the shooting script for Return of the Jedi (it might even be in the novelization). In it, Obi-Wan tells Luke that Owen was his brother, not Anakin's.

The final version of ROTJ didn't have this line. When TPM showed us Anakin was an only child, I think it reinforced that story. AOTC, of course, cleared the matter up.

Brian Fitzgerald: EP II take place about 9 years apart.

Luigi Novi: Except that Boba first appeared in EP II. He wasn’t in I.

Jedi Outcast: Okay... what did one of those have to do with the other exactly?
Luigi Novi: JoshM speculated that Boba Fett would kill Mace Windu. The Undesirable Element responded that Boba Fett could not be in the next movie because it occurs 3 years after EPII, so Boba would only be about 12, and TUE didn’t find it plausible for a 12-year old to kill Windu. Brian Fitzgerald then asked, “Who said the next one takes place 3 years later? Sure it comes out in 3 years but Ep I & EP II take place about 9 years appart.” This appeared to be Brian’s attempt to argue that Boba would be nine years older than he was in his first appearance, since EPI and EPII take place nine years apart. That’s why I pointed out that Boba didn’t appear in EPI. He made his first appearance, as a nine year old, in Episode II. From EpII to EpIII is certainly not nine years, from the appearance of all the characters.

Jedi Outcast: Who said anything about triplets?
Luigi Novi: Brian Webber, in his 6/6/02 9:45 pm post. My response above was one to both him and MJ, even though I only quoted MJ’s post, and not Brian’s.

Luigi Novi: I remember Owen being Shmii Skywalker’s husband, not Obi-Wan’s brother. If he’s Obi-Wan’s brother, then it’s quite a coincidence that the man who bought Shmii from Watto and married her ended up being also his brother.

Darth Sarcasm: I think Wildstar's confusion stems from the shooting script for Return of the Jedi (it might even be in the novelization). In it, Obi-Wan tells Luke that Owen was his brother, not Anakin's.
Luigi Novi: That’s what I said. You yourself quoted it: "I remember Owen being Shmii Skywalker’s husband, not Obi-Wan’s brother."

Um... re-read what I said...

In the shooting script for ROTJ, "Obi-Wan tells Luke that Owen is his (Obi-Wan's) brother, not Anakin's."

Hopefully that clarifies it.

You read it, you can't unread it

No that was my argument. I was making a point that just because it's been 3 years between movies does not mean that it has been three years in Star Wars time. I brought up EP I and EP II to illustrate that point.

I know. It was a "Futurama" joke.

Luigi Novi: Yes, and indeed if you read my post above, you’ll see that I placed one in the very beginning of it. Granted, I didn’t format it in bold or red, but if you read the first paragraph, you should’ve seen it?
Oh, I see. Sorry about that.

Darth: In the shooting script for ROTJ, "Obi-Wan tells Luke that Owen is his (Obi-Wan's) brother, not Anakin's."
Luigi Novi: Right. And that's what I said. Obi-Wan's brother. (Am I missing something here?)

You said not Obi-Wan's brother...

I said according to the shooting script for ROTJ, Owen was Obi-Wan's brother. And this might be where Wildstar's confusion originated (especialy if it's written that way in the novelization).

Oh, okay. I think I got it. (Shakes his head a bit.)

Just remember: Lucas says he planned everything from the beginning.

Riiiiiiight!

This film will be played this year at Cannes. Out of competition, of course. And, the rating is PG-13. Anyone know the running time? It's not yet listed on IMDB.

Why Anakin really turns to the Dark Side:

http://www.ucomics.com/foxtrot/2005/04/17/

Anyone know the reason for the rating having gone up, since all the other Star Wars films are PG.

I'm guessing like the others it'll probabably run about 2hr15min-ish.
The rating probably went out because.
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS !!!!!!
Dooku gets first his hands, then his head cut off. Mace Windu gets atleast his arm chopped off. Anakin goes around chopping up Jedi like they're cold cuts. Anakin gets his arm cut off, then his leg. Then falls into boiling lava and is all scared when they pull him out. Padme dies.
Some pretty violent images here. Especially of characters that some little ones have spent the last 6 years of their young life more or less getting attached to.

In the DVD version of Empire, Vader seemed surprised that Anakin had offspring that survived.
However, in Star Wars it was revealed that he gave his light sader to Ben to give to Luke when he was old enough.
Wonder if E-III will show Anakin give away the sader before he goes on a mission.

However, in Star Wars it was revealed that he gave his light sader to Ben to give to Luke when he was old enough. - Terik Q

Not quite.

Ben claimed Luke's father wanted him to have the lightsaber when he was old enough, but his uncle wouldn't allow it. Nowhere does he say that Anakin gave him the lightsaber.

And you have to remember that Ben said a lot of things that later turned out to be half-true.

Didn't Ben say/imply that the light sader belonged to Luke's father?
Assuming it was once in the hand of Anakin, then my question is...
How does Ben get the light sader?
Will E-III show Anakin giving it to him?
Will he steal it after Anakin falls?
Or, will E-III 'forget' about E-IV and show the sader being destroyed or in the hand of Vader?
The point being that Lucas re-did E-V to make it seem like Vader didn't know about a living kid, but he didn't re-do E-IV (or E-VI).

The point being that Lucas re-did E-V to make it seem like Vader didn't know about a living kid, but he didn't re-do E-IV (or E-VI). - Terik Q

No... Vader knew he had a kid all along. He even refers to "Skywalker" long before his conversation with the Emperor. We can speculate that the Emperor didn't know Anakin had any offspring... and Vader was simply maintaining the ruse and playing dumb.

IMDB now has the running time available. 146 minutes. Longest of all the six movies.

Vader knew he had a kid all along. He even refers to "Skywalker" long before his conversation with the Emperor. We can speculate that the Emperor didn't know Anakin had any offspring... and Vader was simply maintaining the ruse and playing dumb.

Agreed.

And BTW Terik Q, can you please stop spelling lightsaber with a D? Not a big deal but it does look a little goofy, especially when there are a lot of places to get the right spelling from.

Here's a problem that I can't seem to figure out.

Darth Grevious (?) appears to be 100% machine. (or is he?)

Doesn't possession of "The Force" require Midochilorians (?) in your blood stream?

What kind of "blood" would Darth Grevious (?) have?

As far as a I know, Grievous (and he's not a Darth, just a General) is an 'alien cyborg', so he's not all robotic. Don't know if he has the Force.

Perhaps the technology in him would be advanced enough to simulate The Force to a certain extent; tractor beams for grip/pull/push, for example.

Has he ever shown the ability to use the Force? He has great speed, strength, and amazing skills with lightsabers, but I'm not sure he's actually done anything that can only be accomplished with the Force.

No... Vader knew he had a kid all along. He even refers to "Skywalker" long before his conversation with the Emperor. We can speculate that the Emperor didn't know Anakin had any offspring... and Vader was simply maintaining the ruse and playing dumb.

Palpatine was well aware of Vader's true last name. Luke's existence and his Force abilities would obviously make him the son of Anakin Skywalker. The Emperor knew that Luke was Vader's son, and he was playing the two of them against each other, expecting the victor to be his right-hand man.

Can't wait till next week to see the movie? Well, you'll still have to (unless you had $500 to go see a charity benefit advance screening in one of ten cities today), but in the meantime you can read IGN's review of it. Insert requisite spoiler warning here.

Palpatine was well aware of Vader's true last name. Luke's existence and his Force abilities would obviously make him the son of Anakin Skywalker. The Emperor knew that Luke was Vader's son, and he was playing the two of them against each other, expecting the victor to be his right-hand man. - Obi-Juan

Possibly... but not necessarily.

The last name link could make them related, but not necessarily father/son. So we really don't know what the Emperor knew.

I don't think the Emperor knew... with all his strength in the Force, he still had his limitations (for instance, he couldn't sense Luke when he arrived at Endor). And it wasn't until after his suspicions proved true that he decided to pit the two against each other.

Jason Fox gets ready for Revenge of the Sith (this is part of a week long series)

http://www.ucomics.com/foxtrot/2005/05/09/

And for what it's worth, Ebert and Roeper gave it two thumbs up.

So will the moderator FINALLY get the title updated?? Or will we simply be seeing a new board altogether in a week?

To be fair... many of the badly-assembled (in terms of music) short promotional ads I've seen on TV only say "Episode III."

I've seen the opening scroll in a magazine, and discovered a shocking fact about it...

the word "galaxy" never appears once!

Are there any CAPITALISED WORDS?

How about an ellipsis with four dots?

I've got a bad feeling about this.....

I didn't read it, but it looks like Wikipedia has the movie's plot (probably from the novel or a leaked script) up.

SPOILER WARNING SPOILER WARNING

Well, not too bad. It certainly ended the movie series with a bang. Much better than the first two and about up to par of the original trilogy. A lot like Jedi in the way that it had some spectacular action and visual effects, but some elements that brought it down.

First, the good things. As are standard with these films, the actions was spectacular. From beginning to end it was a beautiful and thrilling movie. The action was exciting and larger than life. It's packed with space battles, lightsaber duels, ground combat, and locations of every kind. The images of this film may be the best thing about it. From the vast city of Coruscant, to the dark hellish lava planet, to the short, gorgeous shot of Alderaan.

The film contains references and hints that do a great job of linking the film to the cartoon that came before it and to the next movie. It's actually kind of fun seeing things we've seen before. Grievous's injury, Commander Cody, the Tantive IV, Chewbacca.

As expected this film is by far the darkest of the series. The good guys lose, and they lose badly. The darkness certainly adds quite a lot to the film. It's quite shocking and fascinating to watch everything fly straight into the fan. The slaughtering of the Jedi jumps from scene to scene quite a lot, and while noticeable, it still had me wide eyed and staring at the screen. It's also clear why the film has a PG-13 rating. People get burned, blasted, choked, knocked around, and limbs are cut off left and right. It's quite violent.

There isn't much humor in the film, but the humor that is there (mostly due to incompetence and ineffectiveness of the enemy droids) isn't too stupid. Though it does make one wonder how the Clone War lasted as long as it did.

For some reason the film felt rather short. Maybe because it's the last Star Wars film or maybe I enjoyed it that much. Maybe I just wanted a little more (more on that below).

But the film is nowhere near perfect. It's clear that Lucas does not have the gift for writing dialogue and quite of a lot of it is eye rolling cheese. I was very disappointed with the masked Vader's dialogue. It was great to hear JEJ again, but that moment could have and should have been so so so much better. As for the acting, Hayden's certainly not going to win any awards. Natalie has a few good scenes, but otherwise does nothing too special. Ewan delivers a fairly solid performance, though he has a few missteps as well. One of the film's best performances belongs to Ian McDiarmid. He clearly had a good time becoming his old evil character again. He drops several hints to Palpatine's true nature before transforming into the classic look, such as dropping his voice to a lower, gruffer level when impassioned. Still, the rough dialogue and less than revolutionary characters aren't nearly as distracting as in the past two films, and much of the emphasis is put on wowing the audience. And it does a good job at that.

So, anyway, this is a nit site. Here are the nits and observations:

It's a funny moment, but when Grievous's ship begins to head into the planet, R2, still in the landing bay, begins to slide down the floor before eventually landing in a pile of dead droids. Why did it never occur to R2 to use his (its?) rockets. We know they still work since he used him to destroy the Battle Droids. Did they run out of fuel or something?

I couldn't help but laugh when Padme asked Anakin whether the dream that he'd had was a bad one. If it had been a good dream, would he have left their bed to brood on the balcony?

At one point, Padme reminds Anakin of a time that he held her near one of Naboo's lakes. She mentions that they were problem free and that there was "no war". Is she referring to their wedding? Because the war had started at that point. Was she referring to their first kiss? Anakin didn't exactly hold her, and I'd be surprised if Padme was fond of that memory since she'd been trying to bury her feelings for him at that point.

Now we know why R2 never stays with the ship when he's told to do so in Eps IV-VI.

I loved it when Organa ordered 3PO's memory wiped but not R2's. That explains quite a lot about R2's action in the next film.

It's interesting to learn which twin was born first. My guess was wrong about that. Oh well.

While he is mentioned, I was really hoping that Qui-Gon would make a ghostly appearance. I was really disappointed by that one. I was also kind of ticked off that not only did Tarkin not get a line, but we didn't even get a good look at him. And again, the Vader dialogue left a lot to be desired.

Other, more pointless, observations:
I was surprised that they killed off Aayla Secura (the blue Jedi) since I read she was supposed to survive the movie. Maybe it's Shaak Ti who survives (the multicolored Jedi from the cartoon).

Beru's kind of attractive in this one.

I liked that Naboo funeral. Especially the appearances of Boss Nass and the (thankfully) silent Jar Jar.

MORE SPOILER WARNINGS

I'm surprised that it takes them 19 years to construct the first Death Star but they later throw an even larger one together in four years. Did the Emperor always plan two even before the first was destroyed? Or did they get that much better at building it?

And again, I have no idea where Leia's memories of her mother came from. Maybe she remembered someone else.

Wildstar: No, Leia only said that the person she *thought* was her mother died. That in no way means that the person she thought was her mother was Queen Amidala.
Luigi Novi: Amidala does indeed give birth to twins named Luke and Leia.
Yes, but Leia could have believed that someone other than Amidala was her real mother.

Luigi Novi: I remember Owen being Shmii Skywalker’s husband, not Obi-Wan’s brother.
Actually, Cliegg marries Shmi. Owen becomes her step son.

Influx: I'd like to think that Episode III will conclude with the successful heist of the Death Star Plans, thus leading directly into Episode IV.
Luigi Novi: Except that it doesn’t lead directly into it. It ends with Vader learning that he accidentally killed Amidala, and the twins being deposited on Alderaan and Tattoine, and Kenobi leaving into the sunset. Episode IV takes place 19 years after Ep II.
It does happen in the last book of A.C. Crispin's Han Solo Trilogy, though. And I think in the computer game Dark Forces as well.

John A. Lang: BTW---I suggested the Kenobi stop by Dagobah first because it would clear up what Luke said in SW-TESB when he said, "There's something famailiar about this place"
Luigi Novi: The only thing we see of Dagobah is when Yoda sets up camp there at the very end after saying good bye to Chewbacca and the other Wookie on Kashyyk.
I don't think we even see Dagobah in the movie. Or hear of it for that matter.

Darth Sarcasm: Anyone want to place bets as to whether we'll see a young Han Solo in Episode III?
Lucas initially wanted to include him but the producers talked him out of it.

Gordon Lawyer: Maybe not in the comic, but according to IMDB
Luigi Novi: You might be right. Perhaps he was cut from the comic, or maybe I just didn’t notice him by face alone. (Maybe he was not addressed by name in the comic.)
He does make an appearance, but he has no lines and we don't even get a close up.

SPOILER WARNING, AGAIN

I think that I said it was Organa who ordered 3PO's memory wiped. Actually, I think that it's Antilles who ordered it.

Will the moderator please get on the ball and create some new boards for this movie. This board here is already huge and I don't even want to think of the amount of incoming when the movie is released.

Does anyone like the look of SW:III's X-wings with their 'bent' noses? My local paper declared this film to be the best Star Wars movie of all six...we'll see about that.

They arn't that bad. I actually like them better than the old er future B wing fighters from Jedi.

First post-movie post: it was AWESOME! GO SEE IT!

I don't know why this never occurred to me before, but maybe Leia's images of her mother are Padme. Maybe the "images", the "feelings" that she knows later in her life are due to her latent abilities with the Force. It is one powerful energy field.

Sure. It's possible she may have just chalked them up to her imagination before knowing that she had Force potential.

Wow! just got back. I loved it.
The only real nit I have is Anakin's motivation. Whats he doing here? He's all over the place in the motivation deparment. He says he's doing it to save Padme, then doesn't seem to make it a priority to learn how to. Then he starts to choke her. Then he doesn't give a flip that she's laying in a heap on the ground. By the end of the movie he's back to worrying about her again. WTF????
And whats up with Obi-wan just walking away from the wounded but still very alive Anakin? He just yells at him and walks away. Seriously either kill the guy or help him.
Finally whats up with the Darth Vader armor. Yeah he was all burned and stuff but he didn't look gutted enough to require long term life support. Put some robot legs on him, some skin grafts and he seems ok to go. He didn't actually fall INTO the lava.
Why was Mace Windu gonna execute Palpatine. Anakin was right, he needed to stand trial. tempted by the dark side were we Mace?
Speaking of Mace Windu, I'm sure the "Mace Windu is still alive" crowd is making their signs even as we speak. "Oh come on, a fall like that wouldn't have killed him. Hell, Boba Fett survived worse." :/

I think that I said it was Organa who ordered 3PO's memory wiped. Actually, I think that it's Antilles who ordered it.

Right the first time, you were. Bail Organa (Jimmy Smits) who ordered C-3PO's memory wiped, it was.

On another note, much criticism has been expressed regarding the diologue in the movie (lines and delivery). However, I thought it was generally fine, and consistent with the quality of the same throughout the movie series.

Ryan, I thought that both the dialogue and delivery were much better than the previous 2 episodes. There were some cheesy love lines between Anakin and Padme, but they also seemed to display genuine emotion, unlike Episode II.

Adam: He says he's doing it to save Padme, then doesn't seem to make it a priority to learn how to.

I didn't see this as a problem. Palpatine told him that the two of them would have to recreate the knowledge that that one ancient Sith master had. Obviously, though, until the Jedi are gone Palapatine and Vader don't have free reign to do a lot of research into the Dark Side. I figured that Vader did what he had to do in order to secure Palpatine's position, confident that once things were in order they could begin "recreating" the knowledge he needed to save Padme.

Adam: Then he starts to choke her. Then he doesn't give a flip that she's laying in a heap on the ground. By the end of the movie he's back to worrying about her again. WTF????

It's the Dark Side! Palpatine stated very clearly that what matters most to a Sith is losing power. I grant you that Vader loves Padme; his love for her is what moves him to turn on the Jedi and embrace the Dark Side. But once it has him, he's corrupted. His thinking and emotions are altered. His love for Padme was eclipsed by the fact that she "betrayed" him (i.e., Obi-wan came on her ship) and he lost control.

Finally, Mace Windu is one bad dude. I know that in the previous episode there was a line that Anakin had the potential to be "as wise as Master Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu." Well, Windu certainly showed his power. Palpatine, the might Sith Lord, is so powerful that Obi-wan cannot defeat him (according to Yoda). Yet Windu takes Palpatine down like he was nothing. (And in case you disagree, Palpatine would have been DEAD if Anakin hadn't unexpectedly showed up and lashed out at Windu.)

BIG 'OL SPOILER POST

Great movie, full of action! Wonderful work, but very dark. I'm almost too overwhelmed by it all to discus the plot. On to the nits!


"Luigi Novi: Neither, I’m afraid. But we do see Chewbacca, and the other Wookies on Kashyyk."

Not necessarily. When the speeder with Anakin, Palpantine, Obi-wan and Artoo comes in for a landing after their 'happy landing' on Coruscant, a YT transport that may or may not be the falcon flies in near the bottom of the screen. (It could have been another exterior shot, but I think it was that one.)


"John A. Lang: It is possible that Padme' made Holographic messages for Luke & Leia before she died & Leia saw them in her younger years. The messages were lost when Aldaraan was destroyed.
Luigi Novi: Except that Leia would’ve phrased it that way, but didn’t. The “images�Eshe spoke certainly sounded to me like live memories. "

Is there any reason that Leia wouldn't remember Bail's wife as her mother, a woman 'beautiful but sad?'


"Darth Grevious (?) appears to be 100% machine. (or is he?)

Doesn't possession of "The Force" require Midochilorians (?) in your blood stream?

What kind of "blood" would Darth Grevious (?) have?"

Well, he at least had (now 'deep fried') organs, and his eyes/face appeared to be biological. Basically, think of Grievous (sp?) as an alien Alexander the Great turned Six-Million - er, Credit - Man. However, he's not a force-user, he just wields sabers. (And based on performance, those other four Jedi must have been pretty more incompetent. Not that the Jedi accompanying Mace to confront Palpatine put up much of a showing.)

Speaking of which, the much-lauded "Vaapad" lightsaber style that mace employs in the novels doesn't seem all that impressive here, nor do the skills of Kai Adi-Mundai or Alya Secura (sp?). If they'd been shot in the back, I could buy it. But it seems to me that if they manage to get their sabers out, they shouldn't go down so quickly.

"It's actually kind of fun seeing things we've seen before. Grievous's injury, Commander Cody, the Tantive IV, Chewbacca." -JoshM

Commander Cody! I didn't get that at first- I love it!

"I was very disappointed with the masked Vader's dialogue. It was great to hear JEJ again, but that moment could have and should have been so so so much better. As for the acting, Hayden's certainly not going to win any awards." -JoshM

Agreed. Vader's lines sounded whiny and pathetic. When Vader screams "Nooooo!" I expected it to sound more like when Vader got nicked in the shoulder during the ESB duel, or had his arm cut off in ROTJ.
"Yaaaaaaarg!"


"It's a funny moment, but when Grievous's ship begins to head into the planet, R2, still in the landing bay, begins to slide down the floor before eventually landing in a pile of dead droids. Why did it never occur to R2 to use his (its?) rockets. We know they still work since he used him to destroy the Battle Droids. Did they run out of fuel or something?" -JoshM

For that matter, why did he ever trade them in? They would have come in handy on Dagobah.

"Now we know why R2 never stays with the ship when he's told to do so in Eps IV-VI."-JoshM

ROTFL!


"The only real nit I have is Anakin's motivation. Whats he doing here? He's all over the place in the motivation deparment."-Adam

Agreed. And after he's been so psychologically stable in the last two- oh, wait...
The boy's psyche is just plain warped beyond comprehension.


"Finally whats up with the Darth Vader armor. Yeah he was all burned and stuff but he didn't look gutted enough to require long term life support. Put some robot legs on him, some skin grafts and he seems ok to go. He didn't actually fall INTO the lava."-Adam

I dunno... I thought it was a good choice on Lucas' part... it would have been hard to swallow Anakin falling into the lava and surviving. Though I agree it does make Obi-wan especially heartless. Maybe he though Anakin was already dying?
To me, the big question about the Vder armor (so THAT'S what the inside looks like...) is: Where did it come from? Do all trauma-burn units carry suits this sinister? Did Palpatine say, "Ya know what? Just in case one of my apprentices gets burned to a crisp and requires total life support, I'll build him this suit?" (In which case, did senator Palpatine visit Naboo in the Phantom menace for Qui-Gon's funeral, or was he really spotted leaving Theed palace muttering to himself? "*#@##!! apprentice! Didn't have the sense to get terribly burned... no, he had to go and get himself cut in half!)
Is this some sort of Sith Battle armor? Did Palpatine call in a rush custom job on the way back from Mustafar? Or what?


" Why was Mace Windu gonna execute Palpatine. Anakin was right, he needed to stand trial. tempted by the dark side were we Mace?"-Adam

It makes perfect sense... from a certain point of view. :-)
He was kind of a dangerous guy... did anyone believe he'd really get to trial without escaping? Or, if convicted, accept his sentence without at least killing a few Jedi?


There's been some controversy lately over Anakin's "If you're not with me, you're my enemy" line as being a jab at the president. personally, I didn't see it.
What did kind of disturb me was Obi-wan's line right after, "Only the Sith deal in absolutes." While this does fit Obi-wan's 'everything is true from a certain point of view' mentality, it's a disturbing sentiment coming from the hero.
I loved Obi-wan's line about an "Uncivilized Weapon." It was a beautiful touch. Greivous might want to think about re-designing that "Invader-friendly" chest armor of his... or he would, if he could think of anything anymore.
It was good to see Obi-wan retrieving Anakin's lightsaber. The dialogue here isn't not exactly as he described it to Luke. However, I suppose Mr. Certain-point-of-view could possibly interpret "Hate you...Kill you!" as "Please, give my son that lightsaber when he's old enough."
To me, the order 66 was a bit disappointing... I was hoping for a hard-wired clone conditioning, almost a hypnotic command or some such. The idea that this protocol existed all along, was kept a secret, and was apparently carried out of the clone's own 'free will' (as much as such exists for the clones, anyway) seems to undermine their ability to serve under them effectively. Perhaps that's why the war's lasted so long?
(Seriously, how effective would other wars have been like that? "All right men, I want you to go out there and fight! Go out there and win! Under general Patton, you will find victory! Trust your commander and we'll win this war. And remember, stand by for my signal to assassinate him.")
I was curious what they were going to do with Wat Tambor, the seperatist leader in the funny 'cauliflour' helmet. He appeared to be the last one alive, still sitting at the conference table as Nute Gunray was cut down. Later, we see him lying on the ground, dead. Perhaps Anakin force-choked him? Because I believe that the comics have established that his species live in high-pressure containment suits, and if you breach them, they go off like grenades!
It was nice to see so many great cameos: Tarkin, Chewbacca, Juggernauts, Binary load-lifters, etc... but wasn't senator Mon Mothma supposed to have a scene? Did I miss her, or was she just in the crowd of senators that met Palpatine after his rescue?
Finally, did some of the voices seem a bit off in this movie? The Nemoidian in charge of the battleship during the opening battle sounded vaguely gangster-ish, maybe slightly Brooklyn-ish, but not the Nemoidian accent that we're familiar with. Also, the battle droids, who seem to be mouthing off a lot more in this movie (a programmed response to the effectiveness of clones adopting more individual identities?), seem much higher pitched than they were in the Phantom Menace?

JoshM: Yes, but Leia could have believed that someone other than Amidala was her real mother.
Luigi Novi: This is the exchange:

LUKE: Leia... do you remember your mother? Your real mother?

LEIA: Just a little bit. She died when I was very
young.

So Luke and Leia both know that she had an adoptive mother and a biological one. If they didn't, Luke wouldn't have used that qualifier. If Luke knew but Leia didn't, then Leia would've said, "Whoa, whoa! Are you saying I'm ADOPTED??!!"

Hmmm... good point.perhaps leia's knowledge about her mother coming out of nowhere will be explained by the upcoming completely original and totally-non gimmick OT novel, "Naboo Ghost?" ;-)


A few other things I forgot to mention:

Wouldn't the appearance of the Falcon (or a simillar vessel) make it the only kind of ship to appear in all 6 movies?

When the wookies swing onto a tank to blow it up, it sounds like the same "tarzan"-style yeel that Chewie gives when swinging onto an AT-ST in ROTJ.
Good to hear the traditional "Wilhelm" scream once more.
General Greivous' accent- what would you classify it as? If it was simillar to German, then would that,combined with the much-criticized oriental-ish Nemoidian accents (which I liked) be an attempt by Lucas to create some sort of World War 2 feeling? (Much like the old serials Star Wars is supposedly based on, as a matter of fact? Speaking of which, someone got a little fancy transition-happy in this movie...)

Luigi Novi: So Luke and Leia both know that she had an adoptive mother and a biological one. If they didn't, Luke wouldn't have used that qualifier. If Luke knew but Leia didn't, then Leia would've said, "Whoa, whoa! Are you saying I'm ADOPTED??!!"
Well, then maybe it is because of the Force.

I just got back from the movie a little bit ago, and I wanted to ask this before I forgot:

Where did the officers on the "star destroyer" at the end come from? Was there some other army formed aside from the clones?

Aside from a few cheesy lines of dialogue here and there, I'd say it was a great movie.

Xenocide (nice name!), even though the army was made of clones and commanded by Jedi, there were still commanders and crews for the many vessels of the army. After all, there aren't enough jedi to man them all- especially by the end of this movie :-)
I assumed that this was the crew we saw at the end.


By the way, it seemed to me that John Williams managed to work in major themes from all six movies into the soundtrack:
Duel of the Fates (Yoda vs. Palpatine)
Love Theme (A.K.A. Love Across the Stars- early Anakin and Padme scenes)
Battle of the Heroes (The Saber Fight- I love this music!)
Leia's Theme (At the End on Alderaan). Also, Obi-wan/the Force theme (Obi-wan at the end)
The Imperial March (Also, the beginning of the Yoda Vs. Palpatine fight sounds extremely simillar, but not identical to, the section of the ESB Luke/Vader fight that ends with luke being sucked out the window)
The Emporer's Theme (At misc. different times)

The TV commercials (like this movie needs to be advertised) have the tag line "Sith Happens." Real cute, George.

I haven't seen the movie yet; does it seem like Lucas thought through the meaning of the title? What exactly do the Sith want revenge for? Is it for the events of SW: A New Hope, which takes place 20 years later?
It seems like...
"You defeated our efforts to try to destroy the rebels, so we'll take revenge by trying to destroy the rebels!"

Lol They had Jedi Council Scenes with Trebor Coleman chilling in his little chairt, but he was killed by Jango Fett at the end of Attack of the Clones. How lame.

Well, now! My friend Craig (he's the guy whose touch-up of that photo of Brandon Routh as Superman I posted on that board a while back) and his girlfriend got themselves noticed by Reuters at the premiere!

Xenocide: Where did the officers on the "star destroyer" at the end come from? Was there some other army formed aside from the clones?

The Republic has obviously built a huge fleet in addition to its clone army. At the end of "Clones" we see the clone troops being loaded onto ships. And in this movie we see plenty of ships, plus a few non-clone fighter pilots as well.

Many people make the mistaken assumption that the Empire was built from the ground up. But that's not true, especially when we see now that it lasted less than two decades. The Empire was nothing more than the Republic with a name change and Palpatine at the top. The army, the fleet, the sprawling bureaucracy--the Empire inherited all of these from the Republic. The officers we see at the end of Episode III and the older officers throughout the rest of the series were Rpublic Fleet officers before it became the Imperial Fleet.

I just saw the film. It takes a while to warm up to, but the last third of the movie is undoubtably the most powerful of all the films. At the beginning, I thought the goofy voices of all the droids (on the ship Palpatine was held) was too much; rather a bit too juvenile. The droids all seem so inept at fighting, one wonders why they were created at all. The decision to shut them all down by the Emperor made sense (and also explains their absense from SW: A New Hope).

Yoda was at his best here. He really emotes more expressively than he did in the other films. Superb digital effects! His angry 'fight' faces were a real hoot!

It was a shock to see ships from the first Star Wars rendered here in so much greater detail. The effects were almost overwhelming in the first half (over 2,000 effects!). It was almost a relief to see the familiar white interior from the rebel blockade runner. At last a real set, and not another all-digital creation.

I also thought the giant iguana Obi-Wan rides was silly. It moved too fast for such a large creature. It's hard to believe anyone could hold on to that.

Natalie Portman's and Hayden's acting is also better in this one. That's a relief.

Did Senator Organa and his wife legally adopt Leia? Wouldn't there be paperwork or the functional equivalent thereof to complete?

Also, wouldn't an autopsy on Senator Amidala have been in order?

Great flick!
On to nits & observations:
How old is Chewbacca? He seems to be mature the year Luke & Leia are born. And then he's appears to be the same age 20 years later. Also, Han didn't believe the Force until he met Luke & Ben. Couldn't Chewy have told him about Yoda?

I was wrong. I didn't think we would see Ben get the lightsaber from Ani. But I still think that it should have been done differently. Perhaps Ani could have given a spare saber to Padme & told her that it's for the kid. Then she would tell Ben.

The nit from past Star Wars remains: If you're gonna hide a kid from the Sith, don't place him on his father's home planet and don't use his father's real name. At least call him Luke Lars.

If Leia did know that her real mom was Padme, then would she know her real father was a guy named Skywalker?
For that matter, Luke never seemed curious to know the fate of his mother until he asked Leia.

"Did Senator Organa and his wife legally adopt Leia? Wouldn't there be paperwork or the functional equivalent thereof to complete?"-Hans Thielman

Maybe being the leader of Alderaan has it's perks? :-)


Terik Q, wookies are supposed to live 200 years or longer, so Chewie wouldn't look that much older in ANH.


"For that matter, Luke never seemed curious to know the fate of his mother until he asked Leia."


Perhaps Luke's mysterious burst of curiosity will be explained in the upcoming completely original, totally non-gimmick, absolutely important to the OT novel "Mustafar Ghost?" ;-)

The TV commercials (like this movie needs to be advertised) have the tag line "Sith Happens." Real cute, George.

Dark Horse used that same tag line years ago to advertise their Darth Maul miniseries.

I don't think I've ever seen a movie with more arms being chopped off. I think there are more in this episode than in the whole rest of the series combined, and that wasn't too shabby an amount to begin with!

So Anakin's ultimate fall is due to a self-fullfilling vision he had about Padme dying? No wonder Yoda was so against Luke rushing off to Bespin to save his friends!

Too bad they cut Qui Gon's ghost's appearance out. Hopefully it will show up on the DVD!

I loved the movie and can't wait to go see it again!

Oh, and I'm probably the only one, but I'm glad Jar Jar didn't get killed!

The prologue text that opens the film says that there are Òheroes on both sides.Ó How so?

Why canÕt Obi-Wan and Anakin simply use the force to repel the buzzdroids?

Darth Grievous was probably the Sith that I found the hardest to take seriously as a worthy villain. For one thing, if heÕs a cyborg, why is he always hunched over? Why would posture be a problem for a cyborg? Also, if his respiratory system is so compromised that he weazes and coughs (yet another problem for taking a Sith seriously), why not replace those organs as well with cybernetic ones? For that matter, if his respiratory system is so weak, and his torso chamber so unprotected that Obi-Wan can later pry it open slightly during their physical struggle later, how is he able to survive in the vacuum of space? His brandishing of his four light sabers in his duel with Obi-Wan later makes up for it slightly, but Obi-Wan defeats him so easily that he essentially comes off as useless as a bad guy.

When going to rescue Palpatine in the opening Act, Obi-Wan tosses a radio to Artoo, and his communication with Artoo over that radio later makes for a comic moment as Artoo is almost discovered by the enemy. But why wouldnÕt Artoo have an internal radio? HeÕs a droid, after all.

That AnakinÕs right arm maintains its mechanical appearance, unlike that of his sonÕs, which would have an organic cover, may have been LucasÕ indication that such a cover doesnÕt exist yet with the medical technology of this time period, but itÕs odd that they have the technology for cyborgs and the technology they use to create Vader, but not that skin. Or did Anakin keep the mechanical look because it looked cool?

When Windu and Palpatine shatter the glass bay window of his office, why isnÕt the wind that comes through constant? First, thereÕs none, then thereÕs some, and then thereÕs none again. That high up, wouldnÕt there be wind all the time?

Amidala doesnÕt believe it when told that Anakin killed Jedi younglings. Why not? He already admitted to her near the end of the last movie that he killed an entire village of Sand People, including men, women and children, didnÕt he? Or is she simply a racist, and has no trouble with the mass slaughter of Sand People, but does with humans?

Hans Thielman: Did Senator Organa and his wife legally adopt Leia? Wouldn't there be paperwork or the functional equivalent thereof to complete? ??Also, wouldn't an autopsy on Senator Amidala have been in order?
Luigi Novi: What for? Presumably, she has no next of kin that would make either necessary, or feasible. Besides, Kenobi and Organa are now in hiding from Palpatine. Why would they want to create paperwork with which Palpatine and Vader could learn that Amidala managed to give birth to VaderÕs children before dying, and the location of those kids?

Terik Q: ?How old is Chewbacca?
Luigi Novi: I remember having some of the Empire Strikes Back trading cards when I was in grade school, and a profile card of Chewie stating that he was at least a couple of hundred years old.

Terik Q: Han didn't believe the Force until he met Luke & Ben. Couldn't Chewy have told him about Yoda?
Luigi Novi: Why would telling him about Yoda convince him about the Force?

Also, Amidala tells Anakin when talking about retreating to Naboo that the Queen probably won't let her continue to serve in the Senate. Why not?

I'm given to understand that Grevious' cough is explained in the Clone Wars cartoon.

SPOILER (just throwing it in here for argument's sake).

Well, I must admit that the last half of this movie does a rather captivating job of dramatizing Anakin's complete descent to the Dark Side and the total collapse of the Republic. The most gripping moment for me was when Obi-Wan Kenobi said to an enflamed, paraplegic Anakin, "You were the 'Chosen One!' You were my brother! I loved you!" It was a compelling revelation about how much Obi-Wan bonded with Anakin. And, of course, the movie predictably ends with a closing scene similar to that of The Empire Strikes Back plus the subtle touch of Owen Lars looking at the two Tattooine suns Luke Skywalker-style.

Now, just like James Cameron's Titanic, I could skip straight to the second half of this movie and be satisfied. The first half, in my opinion, was slightly unbearable: the horrible script, the choppy editing (I know there's a lot of action, but Lucas spent no more than a minute on any one scene), and some relatively self-parodying moments. On a positive note, good touch with the symbolism of the concurrent Skywalker twins' birth and the "birth" of Darth Vader.

I didn't notice any errors, but I have a thought and two questions. Remember when Sen. Palpatine/Darth Sidious mentioned how he killed his Sith master whose power and skill specialized in the manipulation of midi-chlorines (spelling?) to create life? I told the person I watched the movie with my theory regarding Anakin's birth. That is, I suspect this dialogue hints at the explanation of Anakin's birth. In The Phantom Menace, Anakin's mother tells Qui-Gon Jinn that "there was no father." In other words, it was an immaculate conception. What if Darth Sidious manipulated the significantly smaller amount of midi-chlorines in Anakin's mother, since these microorganisms apparently exist in all life-forms, to create the life of Anakin Skywalker? Hmm...interesting thought, eh?

Now, here are my two questions: 1) Was it ever answered as to who compromised the Jedi database in order to hide the planet responsible for creating the Clone Army? 2) Jedi Master Sifer Dious (spelling?) was the one who ordered the Clone Army, but since he was "dead," who pretended to be him? Some loose ends, I feel.

One small complaint: What a waste of the Chewbacca character. He was on the screen for, what, ten minutes tops? I felt he was thrown in just so Lucas could say, "Look, look, Chewie's in this movie!" In the same breath, Jar Jar Binks' minimal use was a blessing. I guess it depends on the level of a character's reputation. Oh, and what was the deal with Yoda giving up so easily after his duel with Darth Sidious? And Darth Sidious was pretty weak for a so-called powerful Sith Master.

I give this movie a generous A-, but it's unfair of a grade considering how I'm basing it purely on the last half of the movie. I still sensed no chemistry between Natalie Portman and Hayden Christenson and their "love." However, it was a good effort nonetheless. May the Force be with you.

Terik Q: Han didn't believe the Force until he met Luke & Ben. Couldn't Chewy have told him about Yoda?
Luigi Novi: Why would telling him about Yoda convince him about the Force?
I believe that Chewy & Han were together awhile. Did they never have a conversation like this: Han - 'I heard about the Force, but I don't believe it.'
Chewy - 'You should believe it because it's true; I've seen Yoda use it.'
In the original Trilogy, it seemed like both Han & Chewy disbelieved Luke & Ben.

I would have liked clarification regarding the father of Ani. According to E-I (& the tv show Revelations), it's possible for a human to reproduce asexually. The offspring would be a natural clone. Wouldn't a clone of a woman be woman?

It seems the prophesy did come true. There is now balance to the Force. Only two Jedi and two Sith. However, according to Obi, the Chosen One would get rid of the Sith. But the Sith were hidden until E-I. So, why was Qui-Gon wanting to find the Chosen One when he thought there were no Sith to get rid of?

I liked how Yoda let Obi know that he would be able to communicate & learn from Qui. That explains how he & Yoda appear to Luke. Also, Obi & Yoda were the only Jedi to disappear upon dying. But why didn't Qui & Ani disappear? And who taught Ani how to reappear?

Was the voice of Vader really done by JRJ? I didn't see his name in the credits. Course, I guess he doesn't need the credit.

At first I didn't like the way Vader walked away from the table. Then I realized he was using new legs. If he believed that Padme betrayed him, then why was he upset over her death? Guess the Dark Side comes & goes and there is still good in him.

Few more things...

Dooku was not disfigured when he used Force lighting. Was he using a different power setting?

Award for most underestimated Jedi goes to Obi. He bested Maul, Grevious, and Vader.

Obi claimed that the Jedi don't use absolutes. Was that an absolute statement? I believe that he was trying to tell Ani that he was for him & against him. He didn't want to kill him, but he didn't support the evil Palpatine.
Also, most of Yoda's quotes from E-V seem to be absolutes:
"Do or do not. There is no try."
"No different! Only different in your mind."
"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."
He made the point that one is either on the side of good, or a slave to the Dark Side.

Saw the film last night.

In one word: Hmm...

This was by no means a bad film, but I got restless a few times and never really found it that enjoyable. I guess that makes sense.

GENERAL SPOILER WARNING (but if you're coming here having not seen the film, what is your problem?)

Riff I couldn't resist: "WAR!" Me: "What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!"

I found the opening very cluttered. It was like Lucas busting out one last space battle and this one wasn't doing it for me. Count Dooku turned out to go down very quickly, which was disappointing.

The Padme/Anakin scenes lagged. The actors did their best, but Lucas' awkward dialogue effectively made all their scenes elicit giggles from the audience (the most obvious example is their first scene--"Your love has blinded you!"). Portman does her best, but the solemn nature of the character hampers her. It's hard to believe this is the same actress from Garden State. Hayden C., in the beginning, was doing a fine job, having caught his stride. As he became more evil, he started overacting more and falling into his old acting traps. Overall, an okay job.

Ian McDiarmid turned in a fine performance. He busted out some old playing-to-the-balcony stuff at times ("POWERRRRRRRRR!") and his Force Lightning scene was pretty silly, but some of the best scenes were the quiet seduction to evil stuff. I think the movie did a good job showing Anakin's confused loyalties (although his final decision is ultimately rushed). There is one of those great spine-tingling scenes when the Emperor suddenly starts talking in that old, raspy voice from ROTJ.

General Grievous was pretty cool, but it would have been nice for Lucas to give us some background on the guy for those who haven't watched the cartoons.

The Wookiee subplot was superfluous as heck, but it was nice to see ol' Chewie again.

My friends and I argued over how much Lucas was intending the film to be a political commentary. A lot of it seems more of a reference to the rise of Nazi Germany. Just for fun, I noted a few possible references to Bush:

*"You're either with me or against me!" (this is the line my friend got angry over)
*Grievous like Osama bin Laden in that the war will continue until he is found
*Leader getting more powers in times of war, which was started under false pretenses
*Leader pushing through his controversial choices to hold key positions

Don't forget, though, that the groundwork for all of this was started back in 2002's Star Wars film, made before the war in Iraq.

The ending is undeniably impressive and worth the price of admission. Both action sequences are very well directed and Lucas does a good job of setting up part four. It is great to have James Earl Jones again, although the effect is sorta muted by the goofy lines he says. I'm still impressed as how Lucas got all of his actors to look like their Part IV counterparts.

Finally, great to see Tarkin and the Imperial Officers! Only query: What took them so freakin' long to make that Death Star? My friend's theory is that brief scene was out of order and was actually some years in advance, which makes sense. My own theory is that there were several Death Stars; they started small and worked up.

The final question I had was why does Yoda need to remind Obi-Wan that there is another in ESB. I expected Obi-Wan to shoot back; "I know! I delivered them!"

I was in moderate riffing mood throughout the film; the final one was when Yoda said Obi-Wan could talk to Qui-Gon. I thought, "Oh yeah, because Qui-Gon was VERY helpful in Episode I. Teach Anakin my butt!"

The prologue text that opens the film says that there are Òheroes on both sides.Ó How so?

Perhaps some of those seperatists helped form the rebellion after this film?

Amidala doesnÕt believe it when told that Anakin killed Jedi younglings. Why not? He already admitted to her near the end of the last movie that he killed an entire village of Sand People, including men, women and children, didnÕt he? Or is she simply a racist, and has no trouble with the mass slaughter of Sand People, but does with humans?

It could be exactly that. The sand people seem to be know for being nomadic tribes who do nothing but rob rape and pillage and they didn't have a problem kidnapping people to use as slaves (like his mother). Perhaps she saw it diferently than the young jedi who are training to serve the Republic.

Several people have wondered why it took them so long to build the Death Star. 17 or so years doesn't sound that long to me, considering that the thing is supposed to be the size of a small moon.

Think of the logistics involved in getting that thing built. You need to produce materials, ship them out there, and then construct the station. And then after that, they have to make sure the thing actually works.

There could have been unforseen problems as well; perhaps the rebellion temporarily delayed the project. Perhaps the first few attempts failed.

The only real problem is that it takes only like a few years (from V to VI) to build the second Death Star. I know it's not complete, but it's still operational and it even has a shield. Is this just the case of getting over the "first time" hump? Or was the second one more of a fast and dirty approach? Maybe the second one couldn't travel yet?

The prologue text that opens the film says that there are "heroes on both sides." How so? - Luigi Novi
"From a certain point of view", ie the Separatists POV, Grevious' warmaking would be seen as heroic. Heroism is inevitably defined by the victors of war, yet there are usually heroic acts on both sides of a conflict. It is a silly line to toss into the title crawl.

Darth Grievous was probably the Sith that I found the hardest to take seriously as a worthy villain.- Luigi Novi
Did they ever establish that Grevious could use the Force? He says that he was trained in the Jedi arts, but I didn't think that he could actually use the Force. His mechanical nature gave him an unusual combat style. If he's not a Force-sensitive, he can't be Sith. Besides, for him to be Sith would upset the "one Master and one apprentice" balance that the Sith maintain.

When Windu and Palpatine shatter the glass bay window of his office, why isn't the wind that comes through constant? First, there's none, then there's some, and then there's none again. That high up, wouldn't there be wind all the time? - Luigi Novi
The wind would only come through if 1) it was blowing toward the window, or 2) if a window on another wall was also broken, causing a cross breeze. Otherwise the pressue on that floor would equalize to the outside and the air would be mostly still.

Amidala doesn't believe it when told that Anakin killed Jedi younglings. Why not? He already admitted to her near the end of the last movie that he killed an entire village of Sand People, including men, women and children, didn't he? Or is she simply a racist, and has no trouble with the mass slaughter of Sand People, but does with humans?- Luigi Novi
The Sand People tribe tortured and killed Anakin's mother. Padme may have seen this as justification for his actions. But to hear Obi-Wan saying that Anakin was responsible for the slaughter of the Jedi, including the children, was not something that Padme could reconcile as there seemed to be no reason for him to do such a thing.

Also, Amidala tells Anakin when talking about retreating to Naboo that the Queen probably won't let her continue to serve in the Senate. Why not? - Luigi Novi
Political scandal. We just about kicked a guy out of office for having an affair with a moderately attractive intern. Padme expressed concerns for how her relationship with anakin would affect her political career in AOTC. She was going to protect Anakin's position in the Jedi Order by not revealing the name of the father of her child.

Now, here are my two questions: 1) Was it ever answered as to who compromised the Jedi database in order to hide the planet responsible for creating the Clone Army? 2) Jedi Master Sifer Dious (spelling?) was the one who ordered the Clone Army, but since he was "dead," who pretended to be him? Some loose ends, I feel.
- D Stuart
Now that we know that Palpatine was playing the war from both ends, we can reasonably assume that he (probably through Count Dooku) ordered the creation of the Clone army under the name of Master Syphodius and erased the location of Kamino from the Jedi records.

Oh, and what was the deal with Yoda giving up so easily after his duel with Darth Sidious? And Darth Sidious was pretty weak for a so-called powerful Sith Master. - D Stuart
I found this to be one of the better elements of the film. in AOTC the Jedi seemed to have limitless energy. Any boxer or martial artist will tell you that combat for more than a minute or 2 requires a great deal of stamina. The battle between Yoda and Palpatine, and between Obi-Wan and Anakin, shows how fatigued they become (watch the end of Obi-Wan's fight as the gantry is falling into the lava, they are barely swinging their lightsabers at one another). I do agree that Yoda gave up too quickly. Considering that he had no help coming, he should have pressed this fight before Palpatine could reinforce with his troops.

Dooku was not disfigured when he used Force lighting. Was he using a different power setting?
- Terik Q
Palpatine's Force lightning was being deflected off Mace Windu's lightsaber and back into Palpatine's face. He was disfiguring himself. When Yoda deflected Dooku's Force lightning back to Dooku in AOTC, Dooku deflected it into the ceiling. To save face. Hee hee hee!

Award for most underestimated Jedi goes to Obi. He bested Maul, Grevious, and Vader.- Terik Q
Wrong. The most underestimated Jedi was Anakin Skywalker. Determined to be untrainable as a child by the Jedi Council, trained by a Jedi who had just passed the trials himself, loses an arm to a Sith Lord, and comes back to destroy the Jedi Order and bring order to the galaxy for over 20 years. OK, he's not going to win Father of the Year. And he probably won't win the next American Idol, although he'd do a mean cover of Barry White's "Can't get Enough of Your Love, Babe".

Riff I couldn't resist: "WAR!" Me: "What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!" - Mike C
This is a tip-of-the-hat to a very famous World War II newspaper headline. Lucas had credited newsreel footage of WWII as the inspiration for part of the origianl trilogy, especially the fighter combat.

Finally, great to see Tarkin and the Imperial Officers! Only query: What took them so freakin' long to make that Death Star? My friend's theory is that brief scene was out of order and was actually some years in advance, which makes sense. My own theory is that there were several Death Stars; they started small and worked up.- Mike C
Many people have brought this point up. The Death Star is mistaken for a small moon in Ep IV. I'm guessing that it would take a long freakin' time to build something the size of a small moon. Maybe Donald Trump was arguing the design plans with Palpatine.

The final question I had was why does Yoda need to remind Obi-Wan that there is another in ESB. I expected Obi-Wan to shoot back; "I know! I delivered them!" - Mike C
Obi-Wan knew that Yoda's health was failing and that time was short for them to get Luke or Leia trained as a Jedi. Had Luke fallen to the Dark Side in Ep V, it was not likely that Leia could be trained up quickly enough to prevail.

Terik, just because Chewbacca ÒsawÓ him use it doesnÕt mean Han would believe him. Han himself saw Luke use the Force, and he just figured it was luck. Also, where was it indicated that Chewie also disbelieved them?

As for the political commentary, the things in the film could be applied to many countries and wars.

Why did Yoda need to remind Obi-Wan about Leia? Maybe because Obi-Wan didnÕt think Leia as a Jedi. Although Luke has trained Leia in the post-Episode VI comics and novels, perhaps Obi-Wan didnÕt think she was a viable candidate for ÒhopeÓ because during the movies, she didnÕt express any interest in being a Jedi.

Why did it take so long to build the Death Star? Hello? ItÕs the size of a small moon! To me, taken 19 years or so to build something that size seems pretty fast.

Brian Fitzgerald: ??Perhaps some of those seperatists helped form the rebellion after this film?
Luigi Novi: The text refers to events that have happened up until the beginnging of this film. It doesnÕt make sense to me that it refers to things after the film.

Brian Fitzgerald: Perhaps she saw it diferently than the young jedi who are training to serve the Republic.
Luigi Novi: Which is exactly why Amidala is an utterly repugnant character, as much as Anakin is, which I opined after seeing Episode II.

Obi-Juan: The Sand People tribe tortured and killed Anakin's mother. Padme may have seen this as justification for his actions.
Luigi Novi: Despite the fact that Anakin also killed the children, who were not responsible for that?

Obi-Juan: ?Wrong. The most underestimated Jedi was Anakin Skywalker. Determined to be untrainable as a child by the Jedi Council, trained by a Jedi who had just passed the trials himself, loses an arm to a Sith Lord, and comes back to destroy the Jedi Order and bring order to the galaxy for over 20 years.
Luigi Novi: First, in what way was it established that he Òbrought orderÓ to the galaxy for 20 years. You call being the number two guy in a brutal dictatorship ÒorderÓ? Second, how can you be an Òunderestimated JediÓ if you turn Sith and are responsible for destroying those Jedi? It would seem to me that any award to a Jedi would go to someone who actually is a Jedi, and whose accomplishments are as a Jedi, which is why Terik pointed out Obi-WanÕs duel record.

Again, no answers to the question of why Yoda and Kenobi disappear when they die, but the bodies of all of the Jedi seen throughout Eps. I-III remain after death.

(Or, for that matter, why the Emperor explodes when he dies.)

When Anakin and Palpatine were at the "opera", just what was that bubble thing (they were watching) supposed to be?

My theory for why Yoda and Ben disappear when they die is from Yoda's line at the end of the movie. He says to Obi, that an old Jedi has taught him how to come back and prolong their existence. Or something to that effect.

So Qui-Gon was one of the only ones to learn this trick (after he died), and passed that knowledge onto Yoda and Obi. If Yoda had just learned how, it's doubtful that lesser Jedi would know how.

The other theory about the Death Star taking so long is that the second Death Star could very well have been started while the first one was being built as well (maybe they built the structure and then waited to see how the turbolaser would work). So it could conceivably have taken just as long as the other one.

The point about the Sand People is, I think, more of a contextual one. It is a horrible thing to massacre Sand People, but let's look at it from Padme's perspective. She has never met Sand People. She has probably heard stories about them being barbarians. The guy that she loves tearfully confesses to killing a bunch of them in a state of extreme emotional disturbance. An analogy might be the wife of a Vietnam vet who admits to massacring civilians during the war. She might be disturbed, but she'd be much more disturbed if he was on the news that night shooting up a school full of tykes. I don't know if it's racism per se, I think it's just more of hitting closer to home.

"So Anakin's ultimate fall is due to a self-fullfilling vision he had about Padme dying? No wonder Yoda was so against Luke rushing off to Bespin to save his friends! "-Anonymous

Whoa- I didn't think of that. That's pretty deep for Lucas. (Does this mean that in the Ultimate edition Saga DVDs, we'll get scenes of Han and Leia being tortured with a stretchy blur effect?)


"Oh, and I'm probably the only one, but I'm glad Jar Jar didn't get killed! "-Anonymous

Yes, you are probably the only one.


"The prologue text that opens the film says that there are Òheroes on both sides.Ó How so? "-Luigi Novi

Like Obi-juan says, wouldn't Dooku, Greivous, and novel characters like Asajj Ventress be heroes to the Sepratists? Just cause they ain't heroes to us doesn't mean the the Separtists say "We know we must be on the wrong side, so we'll call our great leaders 'Villains.'"


"Darth Grievous was probably the Sith that I found the hardest to take seriously as a worthy villain. For one thing, if heÕs a cyborg, why is he always hunched over?"-Luigi Novi

Where does this "Darth" Grievous stuff keep coming from? He's not a Sith, he just steals people's lightsabers.
Also, could the hunched over posture be normal for his species?


" Obi-Juan: The Sand People tribe tortured and killed Anakin's mother. Padme may have seen this as justification for his actions.
Luigi Novi: Despite the fact that Anakin also killed the children, who were not responsible for that? "

Well, no one said that was a fair way of thinking... but most people have inborn prejudices whether they realize it or not, and it would probably be easier for her to categorize all Tuskens as Bad Guys and all Jedi as Good Guys.


"When Windu and Palpatine shatter the glass bay window of his office, why isnÕt the wind that comes through constant? First, thereÕs none, then thereÕs some, and then thereÕs none again. That high up, wouldnÕt there be wind all the time? "-Luigi Novi

Like Obi-juan says (again), I assumed this was intended to be a sort of decompression. once the air had thinned out to the external levels, there's no longer any air rushing out, so no wind.


" Luigi Novi: First, in what way was it established that he Òbrought orderÓ to the galaxy for 20 years. You call being the number two guy in a brutal dictatorship ÒorderÓ?"

Well, yeah... if no one gets out of line, then order is order no matter how it's achieved. Not GOOD order, but order nonetheless. Me, I'd argue that it wasn't order because of the Rebellion anyway...


"Also, Amidala tells Anakin when talking about retreating to Naboo that the Queen probably won't let her continue to serve in the Senate. Why not?"-Luigi Novi

Like Obi-juan says yet again (darn it... I hang around the ROTS thread 24/7 waiting for something to happen, then when I finally take a break, you come in and answer all the questions I was going to... You're just too good, man :-) ), I'm guessing she meant after the scandal of her marriage got out.


"I didn't notice any errors, but I have a thought and two questions. Remember when Sen. Palpatine/Darth Sidious mentioned how he killed his Sith master whose power and skill specialized in the manipulation of midi-chlorines (spelling?) to create life?"-Dstuart

When did Palpatine state that this was his master? He may have insinuated it slightly, but for all we know, it really was an ancient tale of the Sith.


"Oh, and what was the deal with Yoda giving up so easily after his duel with Darth Sidious?"-Dstuart

According to the Visual Dictionary (I think) Yoda was severely demoralized from the deaths of so many Jedi. I agree, he seemed to give up too easily.


"However, according to Obi, the Chosen One would get rid of the Sith."-TerikQ

I think the prophecy said that he would bring balance to the Force, this is what Yoda meant by a prophecy that could have been miss-interpreted. Jedi just assumed that meant the end of the Sith. (And, after all, he did take care of the Sith, just a few decades late, that's all.)
Also, I doubt that Qui-gon was looking for a Sith killer, he was just interested when he found such a high midi-clorion (sp?) count. Then, he either decided, "Well, if this is Prophecy Boy, maybe the Sith are here, too." Or perhaps fighting Maul on Tatooine made him decide that the Sith were back, and if so, then maybe this kid is the Chosen One.
Or maybe he was intrigued enough to find the chosen One, he didn't care about the rest of the prophecy, or didn't assume that Balance=Sithkilla.


"And who taught Ani how to reappear?"-TerikQ

"Good Morning, Lord Vader. You have Sith-mail"
"Hmmm... let's see. Aaarrrggg! Not more spam! "Learn How to Remain an Individual After Becoming One With the Force in Seven Easy Steps: An Internet Course." (Sigh) If I ever find out who this 'OB1@Tatooine.com' is..."


"Dooku was not disfigured when he used Force lighting. Was he using a different power setting?"-TerikQ

(Like Obi-Jaun- oh, forget it...) Dooku didn't lie there like a moron firing it for two minutes while it deflected right back at his face, either.
I've heard of going a long way to make a point, but that was ridiculous...


"(although his final decision is ultimately rushed)"-MikeC

Agreed. Anakin's motivation seemed more like mood swings.


"The only real problem is that it takes only like a few years (from V to VI) to build the second Death Star. I know it's not complete, but it's still operational and it even has a shield. Is this just the case of getting over the "first time" hump? Or was the second one more of a fast and dirty approach? Maybe the second one couldn't travel yet?"-MikeC

Here''s my take on the Death Star Timeline:
ROTS- plans from AOTC are used to construct a prototype.
ANH- Shortly after the prototype, construction of the first death star, the Tarkin, is
begun; we see the finished product here. It took a while to build because, hey... it is the size of a small moon.
ROTJ: A second Death Star is constructed immediately after the destruction of the first. Palpatine rushes the work order (which Moff Jerjerrod and his men, working beyond all reason, still can't keep up with), focusing exclusively on the main generator, primary weapon, portions of the outer shell, and his luxury high-rise tower. Many of the other systems, including the engines, haven't been installed yet, and the Death Star II will take a year or two more to complete.
Also, perhaps the rebels are able to mass more easily near Sulust because the Empire has been pulling resources away from the Starfleet at large and dedicating all available work power towards the Death Star II, thus speeding up the process from the first Death Star, when Imperial resources were spread thin combating the rebels.

Things still don't work out perfectly, but the construction period for the Tarkin at least seems appropriate.
The other possibility for the DS2 (sounds like a game console!) is that Palpatine planned to make several Death Stars (they can only blow away one planet at a time- destroying the rebellion with one Death Star that they could easily track and hide from probably wouldn't work so well...), and this one was already under construction during ANH. (And when- er, I mean 'if' Lucas changes his mind and makes Ep. VII-IX - and let's face it, he'll either be making new SW or monkeying around with the old ones untill he dies- there could be ANOTHER Death Star, also under construction somewhere else- or another 3! One for each movie! I think we're on to something here...)


" Why did Yoda need to remind Obi-Wan about Leia? Maybe because Obi-Wan didnÕt think Leia as a Jedi. Although Luke has trained Leia in the post-Episode VI comics and novels, perhaps Obi-Wan didnÕt think she was a viable candidate for ÒhopeÓ because during the movies, she didnÕt express any interest in being a Jedi."-Luigi Novi

Maybe that old liar and favoritist Obi-wan didn't think Leia had what it takes because she didn't receive his 'expert training and guidance.'


" Again, no answers to the question of why Yoda and Kenobi disappear when they die, but the bodies of all of the Jedi seen throughout Eps. I-III remain after death."-Jesse

Um, I think that was the point of the whole "Qui-gon will teach you to be an individual after you become one with the Force" thing. The real question is, since Qui-gon didn't fade, how did he discover this trick 'from the inside' and return to tell about it?
And why (unless it's due to the corespondance course mentioned above) doesn't Qui-gon appear as the third ghost in ROTJ, seeing as he knows the trick and Anakin doesn't. (Perhaps he taught Ani 'from the inside' as well? In which case, there should still be four, unless it has something to do with a connection to Luke...)


"(Or, for that matter, why the Emperor explodes when he dies.)"-Jesse

Well, that's simple. He's a bad guy, duh!
(Seriously, I'd guess it's either because he's an Uber-Sith- which maul and Dooku must not have been- or he blew up something important with that Force Lightning on the way down. But I think the ultimate explanation is... BILC!)


"When Anakin and Palpatine were at the "opera", just what was that bubble thing (they were watching) supposed to be?"-Rona

Water in Zero-gravity, I think. It was supposed to be a Mon-Calamari ballet, though it was kind of hard to tell if those darting things WERE Mon-Calamari, or just FROM Mon-Calamari.


A few interesting notes about Padme's funeral...
Although I had already noticed her wearing it earlier in the film, she still had the Japor (sp?) snippet necklace Anakin gave her after they left Tatooine in TPM.
Also, those crafty Jedi made Padme up to still look pregnant (I wonder if they faked the autopsy?), so that when Anakin checked records of her funeral, he would think the baby hadn't survived. Ironically, this probably drove him more towards the Dark Side.


As for Obi-wan's much-confusing "Only Sith deal in absolutes," I'd interpret it in one of three ways:

A. An attack on religion (But I don't think George is like that)
B. An attempt to continue Obi-wan's characterization of relativism, A.K.A. everything is true, from a certain point of few. (That's pretty deep, character-wise. So I don't think George is like that, either. :-) )
C. A poorly considered line, for no reason, that just sounded cool at the time. This would be my guess, because it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Again with the completion of the Death Star, I'm not arguing that it took to long to build it, however, I am arguing the second one became operational so soon.

If we go with book lore, wasn't there a book series where there was a Imperial testing facility near Kessel (or somewhere that had a bunch of black holes around), and in that facility there was early prototypes of Death Stars? However, Lucas has nulled and voided most book lore, so any thoughts down this line would be pointless to consider.

I dont think they wanted to start multiple death stars at the same time, the sheer amount of resources and man power to keep up one of those things would be astronomical. Keeping up with those AND a fleet of Star Destroyers, and the Super Star Destroyer project....talk about over spending for your fiscal year.

I am Derrick Vargo, and I am a recovering Geek

I donÕt see any problem with Obi-WanÕs line that ÒOnly a Sith deals in absolutes.Ó It correctly casts the Sith as philosophically primitive and narrow in their worldview.

Jesse: Again, no answers to the question of why Yoda and Kenobi disappear when they die, but the bodies of all of the Jedi seen throughout Eps. I-III remain after death.

The Xenocide: My theory for why Yoda and Ben disappear when they die is from Yoda's line at the end of the movie.
Luigi Novi: ThatÕs exactly what I thought.

Jesse: Or, for that matter, why the Emperor explodes when he dies.
Luigi Novi: He had Taco Bell that day.

MikeC: The point about the Sand People is, I think, more of a contextual one. It is a horrible thing to massacre Sand People, but let's look at it from Padme's perspective. She has never met Sand People. She has probably heard stories about them being barbarians. The guy that she loves tearfully confesses to killing a bunch of them in a state of extreme emotional disturbance.
Luigi Novi: I donÕt recall Anakin saying this to her Òtearfully.Ó (Did he?) Also, civilian casualties in wars like Vietnam often happen because the nature of long-range weaponry, which cannot distinguish between civilian and soldier. Anakin, on the other hand, had to kill these people up close and personally with his light saber, including kids. ThereÕs also the fact that some soldiers ended up killing Vietnamese civilians because they were informed by their superiors that the villages in question were filled with VC, and because those soldiers ordered those soldiers to carry out those acts. Neither applies in AniÕs case. That AnakinÕs confession doesnÕt seem to trouble PadmeÑno, she just MARRIES the creepÑmarks her as a despicable character, and her sudden turn when finding out that now heÕs killed Jedi children makes her a typical hypocrite.

Zarm Rkeeg: Like Obi-juan says, wouldn't Dooku, Greivous, and novel characters like Asajj Ventress be heroes to the Sepratists?
Luigi Novi: I donÕt see how thatÕs relevant from our point of view. The Sith are murderes, plain and simple, and the separatists declared war on Naboo, and other peaceful people. The movie isnÕt told from the perspective of the Separatists. You could make the same comment about WWII, or the Cold War, or any other war.

Zarm Rkeeg: Where does this "Darth" Grievous stuff keep coming from? He's not a Sith, he just steals people's lightsabers.
Luigi Novi: Oh. DidnÕt know that. ?

Zarm Rkeeg: Also, could the hunched over posture be normal for his species?
Luigi Novi: But heÕs not normal. HeÕs a cyborg.

Zarm Rkeeg: Well, yeah... if no one gets out of line, then order is order no matter how it's achieved. Not GOOD order, but order nonetheless. Me, I'd argue that it wasn't order because of the Rebellion anyway...
Luigi Novi: Exactly. Where was it established that there was order in any case? Do the novels or comics indicate this? WasnÕt there a Rebel Alliance during the 19 years between Eps 3 and 4?

Derrick Vargo: I am Derrick Vargo, and I am a recovering Geek.

Geeks Anonymous: Hiiiiiiiii, Derrick.

"I donÕt see any problem with Obi-WanÕs line that ÒOnly a Sith deals in absolutes.Ó It correctly casts the Sith as philosophically primitive and narrow in their worldview."-Luigi Novi

Which is fine, if you aren't living in the real world, where absolutes exist. As it is, if only Sith deal in absolutes, then where does Obi-wan get off telling him anything he's done is wrong?
(By the way, I dislike your statement for the same reason I disliked Obi-wan's- it's insulting to anybody that believe in absolutes.)


"If we go with book lore, wasn't there a book series where there was a Imperial testing facility near Kessel (or somewhere that had a bunch of black holes around), and in that facility there was early prototypes of Death Stars?"-Derrick Vargo

The maw, a black hole cluster where Han made his famous Kessel Run.

Hi, I'm Zarm, and I'm an unrepentant geek, thank you very much.


"Zarm Rkeeg: Like Obi-juan says, wouldn't Dooku, Greivous, and novel characters like Asajj Ventress be heroes to the Sepratists?
Luigi Novi: I donÕt see how thatÕs relevant from our point of view. The Sith are murderes, plain and simple, and the separatists declared war on Naboo, and other peaceful people. The movie isnÕt told from the perspective of the Separatists."-Luigi Novi


But,
A. The Speratists probably don't know much about the Sith connection
B. Even though the movie isn't from the perspective of the Sepratists, the statement is still true because these people are heroes TO the sepratists. They don't have to be heroes from our perspective to be heroes to someone, thus "heroes on both sides."
I admit, this is a strange way to say it, as it could also be interpreted as "there are good guys on both sides," but I think it was meant to convey "There are individuals the peoples of each opposing side continue to be heroes from their own perspective."

Right?


"Zarm Rkeeg: Also, could the hunched over posture be normal for his species?
Luigi Novi: But heÕs not normal. HeÕs a cyborg."

True... but couldn't his cyborg body be based off of his species "normal," not ours?
Wouldn't it be un-helpful if you were re-built as, say, an Ithorian? Or, heaven forbid, a Hutt?
Cybrgs probably want to emulate their old bodies so that they don't have to learn to walk/function/etc. all over again...


"Zarm Rkeeg: Well, yeah... if no one gets out of line, then order is order no matter how it's achieved. Not GOOD order, but order nonetheless. Me, I'd argue that it wasn't order because of the Rebellion anyway...
Luigi Novi: Exactly. Where was it established that there was order in any case? Do the novels or comics indicate this? WasnÕt there a Rebel Alliance during the 19 years between Eps 3 and 4?"

Based on what I know, just the opposite was the case. If there'd been no rebellion, perhaps Vader could have been considered an "order-bringer." But the rest of the Galaxy didn't quite work that way.

Zarm Rkeeg: Which is fine, if you aren't living in the real world, where absolutes exist.
Luigi Novi: Very few absolutes exist, and most of them are in esoteric areas like mathematics. Obi-Wan and Aankin were obviously talking about morality.

Zarm Rkeeg: As it is, if only Sith deal in absolutes, then where does Obi-wan get off telling him anything he's done is wrong?
Luigi Novi: Because one doesn't contradict the other. Obi-Wan correctly asserts that the world is more than just absolutes, but also shades of grey and morally troubling questions. That's not the same thing as saying that there's no such thing as morality.

Zarm Rkeeg:By the way, I dislike your statement for the same reason I disliked Obi-wan's- it's insulting to anybody that believe in absolutes.
Luigi Novi: And I find worldviews based largely on absolutes to be offensive. To each his own.

But just out of curiosity, what absolutes do you believe in? (I suggest that if you want to answer, do so on the Moral Relativism, Absolutism & Subjectivity board in PM, or somewhere on RM.)

Does Ep4 match up with Ep3?

Someone there pointed out that Luke had blue eyes, but as an infant at the end of Ep3, he has brown ones.

Darth Grievous was probably the Sith that I found the hardest to take seriously as a worthy villain.

GENERAL Grievous isn't a Sith at all. At the start of the movie the two Sith ("always two there are") were Darth Sidious/Palpatine and Darth Tyrannus/Dooku.

BTW Luigi, your ' keeps coming out as Ò. What's that about? Or is an O with an accent mark the new apostrophe?

Now, here are my two questions: 1) Was it ever answered as to who compromised the Jedi database in order to hide the planet responsible for creating the Clone Army? 2) Jedi Master Sifer Dious (spelling?) was the one who ordered the Clone Army, but since he was "dead," who pretended to be him? Some loose ends, I feel.

Those are explained in the book Labyrinth of Evil.

Was the voice of Vader really done by JRJ?

Yeah, most definitely it was James Earl Jones. Unless that wasn't who you meant, since that would be JEJ.

Dooku was not disfigured when he used Force lighting. Was he using a different power setting?

Dooku's lightning wasn't reflected back at him with a lightsaber. I think it might have had something to do with whatever it is that makes Mace's saber that unique purple color.

Now that we know that Palpatine was playing the war from both ends, we can reasonably assume that he (probably through Count Dooku) ordered the creation of the Clone army under the name of Master Syphodius and erased the location of Kamino from the Jedi records.

Not exactly. Syfo Dias was a real guy, not just an alias.

Yeah, I've noticed that, Anonymous. I just got a brand new Apple I-Mac two days ago, and for some reason, that's been happening on this board. I have no idea why. It doesn't seem to be happening on the other boards here.

My only query with Obi-Wan's statement is what absolutes does Palpatine mention? Doesn't he actually get Anakin to question his absolutes when he suggests that the Dark Side isn't really evil, just different? The only absolute I really see Anakin mouth is at the end when he says you are with him or against him.

More on absolutes...

I like absolutes. However, my point is not to prove that the real world is full of absolutes or that everyone would be better off if we all lived by absolutes.
As a nitpicker, my purpose is to examine the statement made by Obi. Is it true to the SW galaxy? If not, did Obi have good reason to believe it was true? If not, did Obi make a mis-statement in the heat of the moment?
In an earlier post, I offered quotes from Yoda in E-V. To be fair to Obi, these should not be considered. After all, Obi does not know what Yoda will say to Luke in 20 years. Strong in the force is he, but not that strong.
When Ani said 'either you are for me...', Ani believed his statement to be absolute (partly) because he was already a Sith. The statement was not absolute because Obi was both for him & against him. Perhaps in his response, Obi should have been more specific. Maybe he should have said 'That statement is not an absolute.' But, as noted earlier, it was the heat of the moment.
But, for nitpickers, the question remains:
Do only Sith deal in absolutes (if we only use the Prequels as our source)?
I still view Obi's statment 'Only Sith deal in absolutes' as an absolute statement.

That Anakin's confession doesn't seem to trouble Padme...no, she just MARRIES the creep... marks her as a despicable character, and her sudden turn when finding out that now he's killed Jedi children makes her a typical hypocrite. -Luigi Novi
1) check out your keyboard, you've got some non-English characters coming in on your posts.
2) By your reasoning, if I'm married to a recovering drug user, who broke into homes to support her habit, I'm a despicable character for marrying a woman who has sinned?
3) Spouses have an innate denial of the wrongdoings of their partners. Even if my best friend told me that my wife just killed several children, my gut reaction would be to distrust this info until I've seen some proof.

"Zarm Rkeeg: Also, could the hunched over posture be normal for his species?
Luigi Novi: But he's not normal. He's a cyborg."
I think of Grevious' walk as similar to a Tryannosaurus Rex, leaning forward for balance.

"Zarm Rkeeg: Well, yeah... if no one gets out of line, then order is order no matter how it's achieved. Not GOOD order, but order nonetheless. Me, I'd argue that it wasn't order because of the Rebellion anyway...
Luigi Novi: Exactly. Where was it established that there was order in any case? Do the novels or comics indicate this? WasnÕt there a Rebel Alliance during the 19 years between Eps 3 and 4?"
Apparently so, as they existed at the start of Ep IV and they had enough of a reputation that Tarkin intended to use the Death Star to crush the Rebellion.

Based on what I know, just the opposite was the case. If there'd been no rebellion, perhaps Vader could have been considered an "order-bringer." But the rest of the Galaxy didn't quite work that way.
Luigi Novi: First, in what way was it established that he "brought order" to the galaxy for 20 years. You call being the number two guy in a brutal dictatorship "order"? - Luigi Novi
Yes, I do. As you stated earlier, there is no way to determine how long the Rebellion was in existence. There is no such thing as "perfect order". Someone will always disagree with the consensus to the degree that that individual will act in an anti-social way. If anti-social behavior is kept to a level that is acceptable to the society, "order" is established. Using this definition, I would say that there was "order" under the Empire. Brutal order, but order nonetheless. Until the Rebellion became such a factor that the might of the Imperial military was focused on its' destruction.
And who was the leader of the Imperial forces? Vader. Palpatine was the leader of the galaxy, but Vader rode the ships, led the men and acted as enforcer

Second, how can you be an "underestimated Jedi" if you turn Sith and are responsible for destroying those Jedi? It would seem to me that any award to a Jedi would go to someone who actually is a Jedi, and whose accomplishments are as a Jedi, which is why Terik pointed out Obi-Wan's duel record. - Luigi Novi
Well, the fact that he did destroy the Jedi is ample evidence that he was underestimated. All those Masters and they never saw this coming, eh? My point is that a Jedi Master, such as Windu, Kenobi or Yoda, is expected to be a match for a Sith Lord. Yoda made it clear that the Dark Side is not stronger, just easier. I wouldn't say that Obi-Wan was underestimated because he was a Jedi Master and a member of the Jedi Council. Anankin was not a master, but he managed to off Dooku, after Dooku put Obi-Wan out of the fight twice. Yes, Obi-Wan killed Darth Maul while he was a padawan, but only after Darth Maul decided to toy with him rather than finish him off. And Obi-Wan had Qui-Gon's help.

Saw it for the second time last night. And this time I found Lucas' cameo appearance. For those who didn't know, he's at the "opera" in the box to the left of Palpatine. As Palpatine begins to tell Anakin that he fears a Jedi takeover of the Senate, the camera shot of Anakin is wide enough so that over his left shoulder are a human man and 2 human women in the next box. Lucas is the man. The shot tightens to Anakin's face and we lose Lucas. I wonder if the 2 women were related to him.

Obi-Wan is concerned that Grevious' ship is still shielded as they're bringing their fighters in to land. Anakin then fires 4 or 5 times at a point on the hull beside the hangar doors, and the shields drop. So the shield generators don't shield themselves?

Don't Jedi comlinks have volume control? You can hear that comlink Artoo is holding all over the hangar.

I wonder why, in the 2 on 1 battles, one Jedi don't use the Force to hold/confuse/disrupt the Sith while the other one swings a lightsaber at him? These 2 on 1 lightsaber fights don't end well for the Jedi.

The look on Dooku's face when Palpatine orders Anakin to kill him was priceless. Nice scene from an underused Christopher Lee.

As Grevious pockets Obi-Wan's lightsaber we get a good look at it. The design is similar to Luke's ROTJ weapon. This is not the same lightsaber that he holds in Ep IV. I wonder when, and why, he decides to build another lightsaber. Very nice continuity that Anakin's lightsaber is the same one that Luke inherits. Although Luke never figures out that the lightsaber can be hung more securely on his belt, which would reduce that silly swinging when he moves. (How many of you have hooked your flashlight "lightsaber" to your belt and run, only to learn that the thing swings around and smacks you in the "family jewels"?)

During their battle with Grevious, the bridge window is shattered and a blast shield drops in place of the window. As the Jedi bring the battered ship in for a landing, there are windows in front of them.

After safely returning Palpatine to the Senate hall, Obi-Wan tells Anakin that he has to leave to report to the Jedi Council. Yet Mace Windu is speaking to Palpatine. It seems that Obi-Wan was just blowing the politicians off.

Padme didn't need to stand in the shadows waiting for Anakin. She's a Senator, she had a good reason to be present. She could have simply excused herself and ask Anakin to join her for a moment if she needed a kiss.

I wonder how many of Padme's staff and security get paid off to not notice that Anakin spends his nights in Padme's quarters. Or maybe he uses mind tricks on them.

more to come...

I smell a cut scene. Anakin says he's going to jump over Obi-wan and get the high ground. He jumps, Obi-wan slashes, and the wounded Anakin lands -> infront of him <-. I would have expected the momentum to take Anakin over Obi-wan. I suspect in the uncut version Anakin jumps over him, they fight a bit, Obi-wan cuts off his legs, Anakin falls, and slids down on the loose gravel.

While we're on the subject. Actually Bill Clinton wasn't impeached for having a quicky with an intern. He was almost removed from office (and has been banned from practicing law infront of the Supreme Court) for LYING about it UNDER OATH to a FEDERAL JUDGE. He committed PURGURY and obstruction of justice simply because he's a spineless weasel who didn't want to have to tell his wife he cheated on her (in his own words) "because I could."
So to recap:
He abused the power of his office for whimsical pleasure.
He lied to the judiciary
He lied to the legislature
He lied to the American people
He lied to his wife
He lied to his daughter
He got the US involved in the war in Bosnia to try to divert attention away from the scandel his abuse created.....

I still think it was pretty shady of Obi-wan to just leave the wounded Anakin there. If he's really your enemy finish him off. If he's "like a brother" pick him up and take him back to get help and reunite him with his wife.

Well, its good to know that Jefferies Tubes also exist in the Star Wars universe

Obi-Juan: check out your keyboard, you've got some non-English characters coming in on your posts.
Luigi Novi: Check out my previous post; I've already said that I know that. I don't know why it's happening, as it's only happening at this site, and only (I think) on this board, and even then, not all the time.

Obi-Juan: By your reasoning, if I'm married to a recovering drug user, who broke into homes to support her habit, I'm a despicable character for marrying a woman who has sinned?
Luigi Novi: No. The two are nowhere near the same thing, and I think you already know why.

Obi-Juan: Spouses have an innate denial of the wrongdoings of their partners. Even if my best friend told me that my wife just killed several children, my gut reaction would be to distrust this info until I've seen some proof.
Luigi Novi: Except that in the case of the Sand People, Anakin himself told her about it. So if Obi-Wan, a good and respected Jedi Master, who has no history of lying to Padme that I know of, tells her that her husband did something that Padme already knows her husband is capable of because she knows he did it before, how shocked should she be at this revelation?

Obi-Juan: The shot tightens to Anakin's face and we lose Lucas. I wonder if the 2 women were related to him.
Luigi Novi: I don't know about that, but his son played one of the doomed Jedi younglings.

Adam: He committed PURGURY and obstruction of justice simply because he's a spineless weasel who didn't want to have to tell his wife he cheated on her (in his own words) "because I could."
Luigi Novi: I'l respond to this and the other subsequent statements about Clinton here.

D. Stuart: What if Darth Sidious manipulated the significantly smaller amount of midi-chlorines in Anakin's mother, since these microorganisms apparently exist in all life-forms, to create the life of Anakin Skywalker? Hmm...interesting thought, eh?
I thought about that too. I know that Ian Mcdiarmid believed that that's what may be hinted.

D. Stuart: And Darth Sidious was pretty weak for a so-called powerful Sith Master.
He held his own pretty well against Yoda, apparently the most powerful Jedi of the time.

TerikQ: he believed that Padme betrayed him, then why was he upset over her death?
He may have believed that she betrayed him, but he probably still loved her and looking back regretted being the one responsible for her death.

MikeC: The final question I had was why does Yoda need to remind Obi-Wan that there is another in ESB. I expected Obi-Wan to shoot back; "I know! I delivered them!"
LMAO

Obi-Juan: Award for most underestimated Jedi goes to Obi. He bested Maul, Grevious, and Vader.- Terik Q
Wrong. The most underestimated Jedi was Anakin Skywalker. Determined to be untrainable as a child by the Jedi Council, trained by a Jedi who had just passed the trials himself, loses an arm to a Sith Lord, and comes back to destroy the Jedi Order and bring order to the galaxy for over 20 years. OK, he's not going to win Father of the Year. And he probably won't win the next American Idol, although he'd do a mean cover of Barry White's "Can't get Enough of Your Love, Babe".
I'm going to have to go with Obi-Wan on this one. Considering all the lip service they payed to Anakin being the "Chosen One" and become such a powerful Jedi (Obi-Wan even tell Anakin that he's become a greater Jedi than he could ever be at one point) and Obi-Wan's never been considered really great at anything, I think that Obi-Wan was vastly underrated.

Luigi Novi: Terik, just because Chewbacca ÒsawÓ him use it doesnÕt mean Han would believe him. Han himself saw Luke use the Force, and he just figured it was luck. Also, where was it indicated that Chewie also disbelieved them?
I don't think that Chewie ever said he didn't believe in the Force but they did imply at one point that he thought Ben may be a little crazy/dangerous. ("Where did you dig up that old fossil?")

Jesse: (Or, for that matter, why the Emperor explodes when he dies.)
Didn't he fall into some kind of energy conduit or something?

Zarm Rkeeg: "Dooku was not disfigured when he used Force lighting. Was he using a different power setting?"-TerikQ

(Like Obi-Jaun- oh, forget it...) Dooku didn't lie there like a moron firing it for two minutes while it deflected right back at his face, either.
I've heard of going a long way to make a point, but that was ridiculous...
Well, the guy did have a lightsaber in his face. I thought that it was a last ditch effort to hurt Mace.

Zarm Rkeeg: Um, I think that was the point of the whole "Qui-gon will teach you to be an individual after you become one with the Force" thing. The real question is, since Qui-gon didn't fade, how did he discover this trick 'from the inside' and return to tell about it?
And why (unless it's due to the corespondance course mentioned above) doesn't Qui-gon appear as the third ghost in ROTJ, seeing as he knows the trick and Anakin doesn't. (Perhaps he taught Ani 'from the inside' as well? In which case, there should still be four, unless it has something to do with a connection to Luke...)
Yoda did tell Obi-Wan that Qui-Gon had just recently figured out how to return from the netherworld. He probably taught Obi-Wan so he could accomplish that upon his death.

Zarm Rkeeg: Like Obi-juan says, wouldn't Dooku, Greivous, and novel characters like Asajj Ventress be heroes to the Sepratists?
Luigi Novi: I donÕt see how thatÕs relevant from our point of view. The Sith are murderes, plain and simple, and the separatists declared war on Naboo, and other peaceful people. The movie isnÕt told from the perspective of the Separatists. You could make the same comment about WWII, or the Cold War, or any other war.
Just because the motivations of the Separtist leaders are suspect, doesn't mean that all of its fighters are. I'm sure they're not all ruthless, mindless killers. And who says that the crawl is from "our" perspective?

Luigi Novi: Someone there pointed out that Luke had blue eyes, but as an infant at the end of Ep3, he has brown ones.
Eye color can change in your lifetime, can't it? I know that my sister had dark brown when she was born but as she's grown they've become greener. At least, I think that they have.

Obi-Juan: Obi-Wan is concerned that Grevious' ship is still shielded as they're bringing their fighters in to land. Anakin then fires 4 or 5 times at a point on the hull beside the hangar doors, and the shields drop. So the shield generators don't shield themselves?
Or better yet, why are Star Wars shield generators never internal?

Obi-Juan: After safely returning Palpatine to the Senate hall, Obi-Wan tells Anakin that he has to leave to report to the Jedi Council. Yet Mace Windu is speaking to Palpatine. It seems that Obi-Wan was just blowing the politicians off.
Maybe Mace doesn't have to be at every single Jedi Council report.

Adam: I smell a cut scene. Anakin says he's going to jump over Obi-wan and get the high ground. He jumps, Obi-wan slashes, and the wounded Anakin lands -> infront of him <-. I would have expected the momentum to take Anakin over Obi-wan. I suspect in the uncut version Anakin jumps over him, they fight a bit, Obi-wan cuts off his legs, Anakin falls, and slids down on the loose gravel.
Anakin did leap over Obi-wan. Obi-wan just took his limbs off when he was flying over. Anakin landed above him on the hill and then rolled down.

Obi-Juan: Spouses have an innate denial of the wrongdoings of their partners. Even if my best friend told me that my wife just killed several children, my gut reaction would be to distrust this info until I've seen some proof.
Luigi Novi: Except that in the case of the Sand People, Anakin himself told her about it. So if Obi-Wan, a good and respected Jedi Master, who has no history of lying to Padme that I know of, tells her that her husband did something that Padme already knows her husband is capable of because she knows he did it before, how shocked should she be at this revelation?
I think that the circumstances are very different. In one case, it was a vengeful act, a completely emotional reaction to a traumatic event. In the second, he went to that building with every intention of killing everyone in it, including the kids. I guess what I'm saying is that Padme accepts that Anakin's capable of second-degree massacre but not first-degree. That seems kind messed up now that I read it.

I'm guessing that in the three or four years since he'd done that she'd thought that he'd changed. And there is the fact that everyone's mentioned that most of those who aren't Sand People would see them as barbaric savages who's passings (even of their children) shouldn't be mourned.

Was I the only one that got the impression that the Darth Plaugius that Palpatine metioned was his master? He seemed to have this smug look on his face when he said "...his apprentice killed him in his sleep. He could save everyones life but his own."

Much has been said about Darth Vader meaning "Dark Father". Could it be Palpatine named him this instead of say Darth Vengeance or some such because he knew Padme was pregnant?

Another theory is that Anakin simply used his powers to wipe the horrifying aspects of his massacre from Padme's mind.

JM: I don't think that Chewie ever said he didn't believe in the Force but they did imply at one point that he thought Ben may be a little crazy/dangerous. ("Where did you dig up that old fossil?")
Luigi Novi: But that was Han's line. Why indication was there that Chewie shared this view?

JM: And who says that the crawl is from "our" perspective?
Luigi Novi: The movie is told from the POV of our guys, who are part of the Galactic Republic, and people like Amidala, whose planet was attacked by the Trade Federation, and they tried to kill her and Anakin in AOTC. The Separatists have gone to war with our guys, attacking Kashyk, for example.

JM: I think that the circumstances are very different. In one case, it was a vengeful act, a completely emotional reaction to a traumatic event. In the second, he went to that building with every intention of killing everyone in it, including the kids. I guess what I'm saying is that Padme accepts that Anakin's capable of second-degree massacre but not first-degree. That seems kind messed up now that I read it.
Luigi Novi: I agree. Deliberately killing innocent children is deliberately killing innocent children, IMO.

JM: I'm guessing that in the three or four years since he'd done that she'd thought that he'd changed.
Luigi Novi: More like compartmentalized the fact so that she could go on pretending he was a nice guy, IMO.

JM: And there is the fact that everyone's mentioned that most of those who aren't Sand People would see them as barbaric savages who's passings (even of their children) shouldn't be mourned.
Luigi Novi: So the “good guys” are racists who condone the mass slaughter of little children? Pretty unfortunate message for Lucas to send if true, IMO.

Why hasn't anyone here mentioned that Anakin did end up fulfilling the prophecy of the "chosen one"? He was supposed to get rid of the Sith, and he did. (Destroyed the Emperor in Return of The Jedi, and then died himself)

Granted it took him along time to getting around to it.

JM: I don't think that Chewie ever said he didn't believe in the Force but they did imply at one point that he thought Ben may be a little crazy/dangerous. ("Where did you dig up that old fossil?")
Luigi Novi: But that was Han's line. Why indication was there that Chewie shared this view?

Here's the line in context:
Ben leaves the group to deactivate the tractor beam. As soon as he's out of the room, Chewie says something in his Wookie language, like "Rrrrraaawwww, waw, waw, waw!", or something, and Han replies, "Yeah, you said it, Chewie. [To Luke] Where did you dig up that old fossil?"

So if Han wasn't just repeating what Chewie had said, it at least seems apparent that Chewie's comment was somewhere in the same vein.

According to the Star Wars documentary on the new DVD package (Empire of Dreams, I believe), they had actually written lines for Chewie in the script (for ANH at least), for Peter Mayhew to deliver during filming. In fact, they showed that very scene without the Wookiee-barking dubbed over.

Ben leaves the room, Chewie says (in a British accent) "That old man's mad", and Solo replies "You said it, Chewie."

Duke: Chewie says something in his Wookie language, like "Rrrrraaawwww, waw, waw, waw!", or something
Luigi Novi: You see, you totally messed it up. It was actually, "Rrrraaahhhhhgghhh, warrrw, warrw." Totally different meaning.

Translation: "Oh, ****, we're all out of shampoo and conditioner..."

It seems that the relation between Han & Chewie may be like that of an atheist or agnositic & a theist. Han does not believe that an all powerful Force controls his destiny. Chewie does (or should). But it's not just that Chewie believes the Force; he met Yoda. It's like the athesist's best friend is a guy who met Moses.
Sure, such a relationship is possible thanks to Chewie being so old. But I just find it hard to believe that Han & Chewie have had a long relationship and Han never believed the Force was real until Luke. We're talking best friends here. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Luke didn't even know the Force until Ben told him.

Luigi, I'll respond to your points on the next board (the post-movie board).

What's with all the right-wing media pundits claiming SW:III is anti-Bush; "You're either with me, or you're my enemy" etc. I think they're trying to make an issue out of something harmless.

I don't have a problem with it at all, I was just curious if that was Lucas' intent or not. I'm not making it an issue, I just found it interesting that Bush and Palpatine said the same thing.

Rona, I think it's safe to say I'm one of the touchiest Bush supporters around here, and I agree completely. Sometimes a movie line is just a movie line.