A good episode, but I have to wonder about a couple of things, First of all How is Wesley still alive, and secondly when angel tries to kill him( a great sceme) ehy didn't he vamp out and drain him, I mean the pillow I expect more from a vampire.

And we see that Sahjan doesn't bother to think through a prophecy any better than Wesley does. "The offspring" (or "the child," I forget which) of "the vampire" will kill him? Glad as I am that the Buffy and Angel crew don't go in for a lot of that "sire/childe" relationship nonsense, but there ought to be some kind of acknowledgement that "child" doesn't have to actually mean "product of sexual reproduction." At this point I'm rooting for Drusilla or Spike to come and give Sahjan a good kick in the shin for me.

So did Sahjhan bribe/blackmail the Mayor McCheese god into misleading Wesley, or did the Big Burger do it just for kicks? Granted, his prophesy was different from the original, and it did come true (to some extent), but it can only be claimed that he was truthful if he totally ignored Wesley's actual questions, despite his apparent acknowlegement of them.

Well, the end kinda threw me a bit cuz I was expecting Angel to actually forgive Wesley. Guess I should've seen it coming. However, next week's previews seem to indicate that Angel is nice again and won't suffer any serious consequences for trying to snuff Wesley, but I could be wrong. That's just how it seemed to me, at least.

Didn't the girl in the White Room say that it was a big ritual that would make Sahjan coporeal? And yet the actual ritual is painting a lopsided pentgram, sprinkling some blood & reading a short sentance.

There were probably aspects of the spell (ingredients, preparation, etc. that we didn't see. Besides, they didn't quite get it right. Not only was Sahjhan not contained by the pentagram, but he was ejected from it out into the street befor he really began to materialize. (Possibly because Angel rushed it and left an important step out.)

BTW, I just noticed the updated moderator's message. Lilah and her boss did not "offer" to help, there was more than a little "gentle" persuasion involved.

Why didnt Angel become a Vamp when tired to kill WEsley asks Hammer? Simple: If he snuffs the life out of him, Angel might(in his anger-filled mind) get away it. The hosptial people would take his word for it. That he simply died If he sucks out Wesley's blood, Gunn will simply just kill Angel right then and there and would end the series.

The other reason was to make the point about how it was not Angeleus but Angel.

My only question about angel using the pillow is in his grief stricken state would he actually think out a plan, I don't think so, but maybe he did.

I think that was the idea - Angel just wanted Wesley to die, right there and then - and feeding and whathaveyou is at least a bit of a process - and, as Cathal said, probably wasn't hungry anyway.

I do find it a bit odd, though, that Angel will go to all the trouble to kill Wesley - a friend, who was trying to save Connor (and Angel) and honestly did act with the best of intentions; and not Justine - an enemy, who was out to save Connor (but not Angel), slit the throat of another person trying to save him and can quite clearly not be said to have such honest and true intentions as Wesley did. (I know, we're not talking about rational Angel here, but still...)

Hmmm...interesting that last year Buffy's mum died and Angel went all the way to Sunnydale to go to the funeral. This year, Angel had a son, and quite likely has lost him, and no-one in Sunnydale so much as sent a card... ;)

You're missing something. Someone had to *tell* Angel that Joyce died. Either Giles called him, or Buffy did, or Dawn, or Cordy had a vision, or whatever. *Nobody* from Angel Investigations bothered to get word to anyone in the 'Dale that any of this - Darla's return, Connor's birth, Connor's kidnapping - is even happening.

Other Matt: I belive the terms used are "Scoobies" and "A-team."

I prefer to think of them as the "Ministers of Grace."

Another fan of Television without Pity (formerly known as MBTV)?

Absolutely, though I do think that everyone over there is too hard on poor Fred.

I think for most of them it's climb on the bandwagon and have a little harmless fun -- rather like the "... bash in Bashir's head" thread here on NitCentral, tho there are a few really viscious remarks.

The hostility over there seems a bit more widespread than, say, the Bashir-bashing here. I usually don't see people inventing new methods of bashing in his head any place other than the thread for that. When he's mentioned anywhere else, people treat the character with a bit more respect, even if they hate him. It seems to be different with characters people hate over at TWoP.

Of course, nothing can compare with the extreme hostility leveled at Marti Noxon over in TWoP's Buffy section. I'm not sure that some people understand that they're just watching a TV show.

The hostility over there seems a bit more widespread than, say, the Bashir-bashing here.

Yes, but the whole tone of the site is deliberately "catty," and "attitude" is expected. When real venom starts creeping in it is harder to identify and counter.

Which is nice and all, but some people just can't leave well enough alone. It's why I typically avoid the message boards - people take these things entirely too seriously. (Note that the TWoP boards were the inspiration for the mean-spirited Josh/Donna subplot in "The US Poet Laureate," one of last season's less stellar episodes of The West Wing.)

You may have a point there. I don't usually follow the boards there, and because time considerations are one reason, I tend to forget the other: it's often not a pleasant place to be.