And the case continues...

My feelings:

1. I would not want to survive on a feeding tube. That is my personal decision.

2. My personal feeling here is that it might be best if the husband, who apparently is engaged to someone else and has another family, would just get a separation and cede custody to the parents. If the parents wish to take care of her, that's their business. I understand the husband's position, but we DON'T know for sure what Mrs. Schiavo would have wanted.

3. I am adamantly opposed to the federal Congress getting involved. Any conservative should be--this is nothing more than big government intruding on states' rights. The federal Congress should not have unilateral power to take issues already decided by the states and put them in federal court, barring a deliberate breaking of federal law. This is a very dangerous precedent--should we now expect Congress to do this for every right-to-die dispute? Every death penalty case? Etc.?

this is nothing more than big government intruding on states' rights

Heck, it's nothing more than big government intruding on INDIVIDUAL rights!

Re:Mike's Comments
Comment 1: Agreed, but write it down somewhere as a "Living Will"... (If she had done so, I have the feeling, that this case would not have happened in the first place...)
Comment 2: He would lose some $500,000 obtained when he won the Malpractice suit against the hospital.
(The amount awarded was on the order of $ 1 million,according to reports, and counts as part of the couple's assets.
If they "seperated", half of the money would go to the parents as part of the settlement).
Comment 3: I have the sneaking suspicion that George is trying to bail his brother, Jeb out here, given that Governor Bush tried to pass a law down in Florida, which would effectively have the same results at the State level, but was overridden by the Florida Supreme Court...

Wasn't most of the $1 million settlement that Michael Schiavo got used to pay lawyers?
Michael Schiavo has a girlfriend, with whom he has two children. I don't know if he had any kids with Terri. I also read that she had an eating disorder and drank 15 glasses of iced tea daily. Also, rumors of past abuse on the part of Schiavo toward his wife circulate on the Internet.
A memo was distributed to Republican members of Congress, discussing just how much political capital with the Christian right can be gained from this case. So much for altruism. If I was in the same boat, I wouldn't want Tom Delay or Bill Frist deciding my fate.

There's a huge thread on this at Peter David's blog. It's the blog entry titled, "Living Wills and Political Bloodsuckers." It got up to like, over 100 posts in just two days. Now it's at 185. Peter's most interesting comment on the case is actually in the blog entry on the main page titled, "On a Related Note," just above the "Bloodsuckers" one.

The courts have found it to be "clear and compelling" that Terri would have, in fact, wanted what Michael is trying to accomplish.

He gets no money out of this. He's already made a public pledge to donate what's left to charity.

And I have to disagree with the living will part. I feel that even if Terri HAD written a living will, the parents would have disputed that. I mean, these are the same people who think that stem cell research will cure her PVS (and regrow her brain, apparently).

To jump in with my 2cents. I would have to say that I would definately not want to be kept alive past the point where I would become a burden to my loved ones like that. This is after haivng helped take care of my dad through terminal cancer, and my grandmother through late stage alzehimer's/stroke/heart attack/"living" to 98 years old. So I have a living will (assuming the state or doctors or whomever will listen to it and obey it) saying no extraordinary measures, no attempts to come back from a flatline, game over pull the plug and let my family know me as i was at the top of my game.

The way i see it the parents just don't want to give up hope for their daughter and as a parent I have to say I can see their point of view, but realistically there are no miracle cures for her condition. This isnt star trek. Sometimes a person just has to realize that the game is over and the mourning has to begin.

And unfortunately the christian taliban are using terri as their poster child to try and get big government to interfere in individual rights and freedoms.

My mother had to make this decision last year about my father. Thank G-d that it was a private matter.

Re:MJenkins Comment
Unfortunately, given the U.S'es viewpoint on theraputic cloning, stem cell therapy
effectively is not a option at the present....
(The U.S was one of the major sponsors of a U.N resolution banning all forms of human cloning, including for theraputic purposes).
As the primary method of obtaining stem cells is via cloning from a 6 day old embryo (before the blastocyst forms), you can see that at present, stem cell therapy is at best a "long shot"...
Because of this, most research in this field using this method, is performed outside the U.S...
(The other method of obtaining stem cells from the umblicial cord, the "Cord blood" method has problems of it's own...).

Re:Adam Bomb's last comment
According to the initial news report in
The Independant newspaper,
it was speculated that her eating disorder (Bulimia) may have caused her heart attack, due to the lack of Potassium in her diet, amoungst other factors...

Re:My last comment
I did some "checking up" on the effects/symptoms of Potassium deficiency in man,and found the following :-
The symptoms of the above include muscle cramps, accelerated fatigue, mental confusion & irrtatibilty, heart arrythmia & abdominal bloating..
(Given that Therri had a eating disorder, this last symptom would have reinforced her body dysmorphia, & made the situation far worse...
In short, could she have been caught in a "Viscious Circle"...?).

I was just watching the news and saw the latest desperate gasp from the parents. They are now claiming that she has tried to communicate with them and articulate the phrase "I want to live"

I mean I would like to believe that it was possible but after 15 years and with the already desperate and somewhat irrational behavior of her parents I only see this as a last ditch gasp to try and get their way.

I mean as sad and harsh as this may sound but i really wish the body would die soon so that maybe this will all dry up and people can get on with life.

A man named Richard Meywes was arrested for sending an e-mail, offering a bounty of $250,000 to kill Michael Schiavo, and $50,000 for killing an unnamed judge in the case, who has sided with Mr. Schiavo. So much for "right to life." More here.

There was also speculation that Gov. Jeb Bush would send in the stormtroopers, physically seize Terri Schiavo and put her in state custody. Nothing ever came out of it, except that that may have been the kickoff of Jeb's 2008 Presidential bid.

The one thing that astounds me is people like Randall Terry who insinuate that it's JEB's fault that is happening and that the right will blame him! WTF?! Terry suggested that Jeb pull an Andrew Jackson and ignore the Court. Good one, Randall!

This whole fiasco just reminds me of what pathetic political creatures most Republican politicians are. I'm glad that their tactics have turned off the majority of the public (in a CBS poll, 82% of the public thinks politicians should not have become involved in this case. Republicans, pandering to the Religious Right, have made what should have been a personal decision a federal case. Again, this reveals the irrationality of the religious right; just leave a woman with irreversible brain damage alive - a 'miracle' could happen any minute. Please, it's been 15 years. There is a time for letting go. Someone should also pull the plug on the cable news channels' round-the-clock death watch and coverage.

Without trying to get 'religious musings' here, if the so-called religious people that want Terri kept alive actually believe in their religion, aren't they, in effect, keeping her from being with God by keeping her alive? (I realize the logic of my argument makes it sound like I think it's OK for anyone to die at anytime, which I don't... I'm simply trying to question the trueness of these people's "faith".)

I'd heard that Terri Schiavo's parents have said that they would have fought against having Terri pulled off even if she had articulated such wishes in a living will. Seems to me like they care about their daughter's life, but not what she wanted to do with her life, not the quality of that life. (Hey, I'm not saying it would be easy for anyone to be a parent and have to watch a son or daughter die, but is this really living?)
As for me, I'm going to have a living will drawn up ASAP. Mind you, I'm in no hurry to die, and if I'm on life support with a chance of recovery, hey, go for it! But if I'm in a persistent vegetative state, I want my family and friends to be able to move on. I'd want to move on, too, though I'd be in no position to care at that point.

It does seem like kind of interfearing with "God's will", if you want to say that you believe in that.

I don't believe it, but it's certainly an angle that I've not heard brought up yet. And it runs counter to the bumper sticker I saw today: "Let Terri live or God will punish!" (I don't believe that, either.)
I'm not going to debate the philosophical/religious implications here, since I said I wanted to avoid RM type posts on this board. But it's definitely food for thought.

As expected, the FOX pundits have put a political spin on this case. Last night, Bill O'Reilly called House Democrats "cowards" for not getting involved in it.

Here's a rhetorical question:

The latest news on the Pope is that he is now on a feeding tube. Will they remove the tube from him is he takes a turn for the worse?

If you expected it Rona, then why did you watch?

Although John's question was rhetorical, I've heard it brought up elswhere. I don't think the comparison is valid at this point; the Pope, as far as we're being told, can still articulate his wishes.
And here's a chance for me to look at my question from the other day, as it pertains to him: of all the people on the planet whom people should be least afriad to see pass on, I think it should be the Pope. After all, no one is closer to God, right? (I know, it depends upon your religious beliefs, and once again I'm getting too close to RM.)

Lang, are we talking about taking a turn for the worse or being brain dead in a persistant vegitative state for 15 years.

America is becoming like NAZI Germany. They started off with killing the mentally and physically handicapped. Millions are already being killed through abortion. Terri will die of starvation, just as surely as any Dachau victim did. This is what the ACLU has allowed America to become. Remove God from public life, and people are all too willing to kill the innocent.

Sweet! Does this mean that anyone who disagrees now wins via Godwin?

Er, I mean, don't feed the troll...

Federal appeals court rejects again.

I'm glad of that. The Schindlers keep saying that there was not enough "clear and convincing" evidence of Terri's wishes. For eight years, the courts have ruled that there has been. How much more evidence is needed? When will they finally say, "Okay, that is enough evidence, I am satisfied."??

I agree with whoever said that at this point, they're just flinging things at the wall and hoping something sticks.

Bear in mind that there were no attempts to remove a feeding tube from Terri Schiavo for about seven years after it was inserted, possibly to see if she had a chance of recovery.

Yahoo! News reports that Terri Schiavo died today.

May she finally rest in peace.

May everyone finally have some peace. Now maybe her parents can begin to mourn and recover.

(Machiko Jenkins)
Yahoo! News reports that Terri Schiavo died today.

Sorry, but that really reads wrong... especially on the Last Day view. I know that probably wasn't your intent.

"Probably"?

I can assure you that wasn't her intent at all.

Though agreed that out of context, it can be misread.

I thought it was a little strange that Machiko would be cheering Schiavo's death...

As for my comment about Schiavo resting in peace, I guess I spoke too soon. There appears to be dispute now about what to do with her body: bury or cremate, inter the remians in Florida or Pennsylvania? Is the government going to have an emergency session about this, too?

By the way, this morning's opening of President Bush's press conference about US intelligence agencies began with (of course) mention of Schiavo's death, along with Bush making a statement about the importance of life & protecting American life, which he immediately parlayed into a 9/11 reference that led to the main topic. Ugh.

... along with Bush making a statement about the importance of life & protecting American life...

Did he really say only American life should be protected? (Us non-americans have always suspected this, but to hear it out loud from the pres. himself... Wow. I'll run for cover now... )

Another point of fact here is that people refuse medical treatment all of the time.

Jehovah's Witnesses can refuse blood products (even in cases where doing so would save their lives) and Christian Scientists can refuse all medical treatment, so refusing a feeding tube is neither unethical nor illegal if the patient has said that is what they want.

It seems that the controversy continues after death, given that the former Mrs Schiavo is to be given a post mortem, to determine the extent of her brain damage...
It seems that she continues to be a political & legal "football" even after her death....

Kinda makes ya wonder who really had the damaged brain?

Wow.

Looks like I'll be starting the Darth Sarcasm Appreciation Fan Club.

And I think I'm appalled that anyone else would think that I was deliberately cheering this poor woman's death.

I'm just too shocked at that prospect to actually decide if I am or not.

Wow.

Urgh! Constanze, I can't say for certain if Bush worded it in such a way that implied protecting only American life, or if it was more about protecting Americans in general, so as to lead into his stuff about intelligence... to be fair, those may have been two seperate points, though they were made fairly closely together. I wish I'd have written the exact quote down, but I was laughing too hard at the whole thing. Anyone know of a transcript or soundbite floating around out there?

Machiko, I should have added to my statement "I thought it was a little strange that Machiko would be cheering Schiavo's death..." that I didn't actually think that was the case. (Which is why I thought it was strange.)

Question, Doesn't removing the feeding tube cause starvation? Does it not hurt to starve? I mean, I've gone to bed without dinner before and then didn't get a breakfast the next morning, nor a lunch; and I felt like I had to puke from the stomach cramps. I wonder what sort of pain this woman experienced doing that for days along with no water.

If people were so concerned with ending her misery and suffering, why didn't the judge order her a lethal injection. I mean, it was obvious she's gonna die right, can the judge not order her execution even though it would have been less painful?

Could this be accounted as a tragady or not? Although, I belive what happend was wrong because I belive that Michael used her in court to build up his funds off of her, although he did have to pay the lawers and things, but he still made a revenue off of his little lawsuit. After that, he decided there was no use in her, left her in the hospital and started a new life with a new woman. They have even had kids with eachother. When she was in a critical state, he didn't want to have to pay anymore to keep her alive anymore then she needed to be. I belive that this man did a horriable, horriable thing. I consider it to be murder and the United States courts allowed all of this to happen.

Although I cannot speak for her, I do belive that she may have wanted a better life in a better place. I don't want to get into my Religion but I do belive that she is happeir now and hopefully, she can forgive the horriable misdeeds that were unfolded throughout the last month.

One last note: Why bring George W. Bush into it, leave him alone he dosen't need anymore problems on him then what he already has. He coulden't of done anything and even if he tried to his best ability I'm sure the house and senate woulden't allow him to. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is absolutly nothing Bush could of done.

I'm fairly certain the only way a judge can order someone to be executed is in a capital punishment case, which this clearly was not. To answer the pain question, I think that for most people, yes, starving to death would be painful (although in this case, wouldn't dehydration set in first?), but here it would be a question of "well, how much pain can the person feel?"

In a startling case of apt timing (or not), "South Park" did a feeding tube episode last night. Funny stuff.

Pain from starvation? Sure, in an uncontrolled situation. My understanding of hospice care is that deathbed patients are given a morphine drip to ease the pain. Even patients who are vegetative, just in case there might be any awareness of pain. (By the way, has anyone here seen pics of the CAT scans of Schiavo's cerebral cortex? The scans show pronounced shrinkage of the brain and large blank areas where brain tissue should have been. Sorry I don't have a link to post, but I know of at least one article on MSN.com news that posted pics.)

Um, didn't Bush get himself involved in the case by having (or trying to have) Congress act in emergency session?

This is one case, people. This kind of thing happens daily in the US, though it's never garnered so much publicity and government intrusion.

If people were so concerned with ending her misery and suffering, why didn't the judge order her a lethal injection. I mean, it was obvious she's gonna die right, can the judge not order her execution even though it would have been less painful?

Because that's illegal. According to the law someone can be allowed to die of natural causes (like she was or someone who refuses treatment for an illness would) but if you give her a leathal injection you will end up in the same cell of Dr Jack Kavorkian.

Why is it euthansia is illegal for humans but legal for animals? Shoulden't humans be guarateed the same basic right as a cat or dog? If you had a pet that was suffering with no chance of recovery put to sleep there'd be no questions asked. Why is it humans have to suffer before they die? How can we call oursevles an enlightened species when we allow that to happen?

Richard M. Nixon: Why bring George W. Bush into it?
Luigi Novi: CR didn't bring Bush into it. He referenced a comment that Bush chose to make on the case, which was Bush's doing, not CR's.

O'Reilly was at it again, yesterday. He said Terri's husband was a "villain" for wanting her to be cremated (and not have a "Catholic" funeral). Is the Catholic Church against people being cremated?

I think it's because of the Resurrection - cremated bodies would have a hard time walking out of their graves.

I believe that the Vatican has said cremation is acceptable now, so this is another case of Much Ado About Nothing.

List of Schiavo Donors Will Be Sold by Direct-Marketing Firm:

"The parents of Terri Schiavo have authorized a conservative direct-mailing firm to sell a list of their financial supporters, making it likely that thousands of strangers moved by her plight will receive a steady stream of solicitations from anti-abortion and conservative groups."

Nice. "Quality of life" is obviously of no importance. Money, on the other hand...

Anyway, back to a point I brought up earlier...
The other day, I commented about people dying on a daily basis. Families across the nation, indeed around the world, face the bitter problem of saying goodbye forever to loved ones. Regardless of one's religious beliefs, there's some sense of hope for the berieved and for the dying that death can be as comfortable and as dignified as possible.
People at the hospice where this media circus took place were denied that hope. Take for example the story of one Jennifer Johnson, who was unable to see her dying grandfather due to all the excess security that had to be around. (The article is from 25 March 2005, after Schiavo's feeding & hydration tube had been disconnecterd, but before she had died.)
If the protesters care about life, then they shouldn't be getting in the way of others' lives (nor causing actions that force police to get in the way of others).
A quote from the article by Ms. Johnson sums up something that seems to have been overlooked by many people: "They've taken away hospice's greatest quality, that it is peaceful and serene and quiet and calming -- and it's not fair," Johnson said. She also mentions in the article that Schiavo's rights seemed to be more important than anyone else's.
Trying to humanize a case seems noble on the outside. But there's no nobility when others' rights are cast aside to make the point.

O'Reilly was at it again, yesterday. He said Terri's husband was a "villain" for wanting her to be cremated (and not have a "Catholic" funeral). Is the Catholic Church against people being cremated?

To be a little more precise, it's not that cremation has ever been an eschatological problem per se -- if God can reconstitute your body after it's been laid in the ground for untold centuries, God certainly isn't going to have a problem reconstituting your ashes after a while. But historically, cremation was seen as a pagan thing, something you might do if you didn't think that the dead were going to be raised incorruptible, and while it wouldn't pose a problem regarding one's salvation, one certainly would not wish to indulge in the funerary customs of neighboring pagans, lest people think you were one yourself. So it's relatively unusual for devout Catholics to choose to be cremated, but there's no actual problem with it.

Bush did not order the emergency session of Congress; he merely signed the legislation they passed. I find George W. to have acted totally within his bounds and for the most part, at least recently, Jeb as well.

Tom DeLay on the other hand...not so much.

Bush did not order the emergency session of Congress; he merely signed the legislation they passed. MikeC
Ach! I stand corrected on that point. Thanks for pointing it out. I was, in this event, confusing Bush with Delay.

Wow, this story just disappeared! As soon as the Pope passed away, this was just gone. She was already cremated, and who heard about it. The media really milked this story for all it was worth until a bigger story came along.

My Book, Bradypalooza

South Park featured their take on the Schiavo case last week. "Best Friends Forever" tried to give both sides' viewpoints, however, it just couldn't pass up ridiculing Republican politicians' exploitation of this case.

Sort of a side topic,

if it's illegal to put somebody to death, but it is acceptible to let them die of natural causes.

Can I refuse to be treated if I get myself tossed out my car like in an accident? Can I order people to let me bleed to death on the sidewalk?

I believe you can.

Whether anyone will actually listen is another story altogether.

Most people bleeding to death can only scream and go unconscious, so if you can coherently do otherwise, more power to you.

...a relevant question (attending to accident victims) since Laura Bush killed a teenager in an accident.

On further thought, I want to revise my answer.

I believe that while you can tell people to leave you be while you're gushing your bloodtype into the concrete, the likelihood of anyone obeying your wishes is slim.

This is a society of frivolous lawsuits, after all. If you don't sign any legal paperwork that absolves bystanders of responsibilities, your survivors could easily sue those bystanders. Or the city. Or whoever else.

This particular case (thread topic) should be proof enough. The Schindlers engaged in 15 years of lawsuits, despite being repeatedly slapped down. How much more frivolous can one get?

How does Laura Bush's accident relate to the question asked by Polls Voice?

I also wouldn't exactly call it frivolous; misguided, perhaps. But I think they were earnest in their belief and actions.

I should clarify:

By frivolous, I don't mean that they did it for kicks and thrills, or for giggles, or anything like that.

Frivolous, in this case, means that they repeatedly engaged in the same actions, over and over, wasting the time of the courts, of Michael Schiavo, of Terri Schiavo, and of themselves (by spending that time in the courtroom instead of in the hospice room). The money that should have gone to Terri's health care instead got wasted on silly legal fees, because they just didn't know when to quit.

The more conventional use of frivolous comes in their actions of turning this tragedy into a 3 ring circus, complete with the monkey in the White House.

Polls - People who are morman are supposed to refuse any blood products. I'm sure that many don't when it comes down to it (just like Cathlics are supposed to never use birth control) But if someone who has those strong of beliefs ends up in the hospital and needs a blood transfusion their family can refuse it and they will die and it's perfectally legal. I've also heard of court cases with "Christian Scientists" refusing any form of medical treatment for things that could be easely treated and died as a result of it. I think some family members have gone to court when Christian Scientist parents refused treatment for their kids and the rest of the family felt that was murder.

I read somewhere (the Chick archives?) that very recently the mormon church (Without much explanation or apology) has suddenly abandonded the literal interpretation which forbid giving blood or blood products to sick people.

I thought the problem is that the bystanders generally are afraid to help because if they do sth. wrong they'll get sued? (And if 20 people are standing around, everybody thinks someone else will do sth., and nobody does anything?)

Couldn't you carry a card in your pocket, like some of the religious people do?

I know that when I went through CPR class the instructor warned that in some states you can get sued for doing nothing and get sued for doing something. So its kinda dutch door action there.

I don't know what a "dutch door action" is; but I'm surprised that in some states you'll get sued if you do nothing. I've always heard only about being sued if you do sth. wrong in the US, and that's the reason (one of the reasons) that onlookers don't want to help - which is different from Germany, where people are required by law to help; to learn first aid for their drivers license; and are insured against unintentionally doing things wrong while helping; and so all of my first aid instructors always stressed that it's better to do sth., even if unsure, than do nothing (followed by the simple moves that might save a persons life, like overstretching the neck for breathing or putting into the stable position or stopping the bleeding of an artery, where a few minutes make the difference between life and death.)

Ok as for dutch door action its a slang term used in the midwest for being shafted, catch 22, getting danged if you do or danged if you don't etc.. sorry for dropping into local slang. Hope that helps and no I don't know what the origins of that term is, I've just heard it used before.

As for the gettign sued for not doing something that falls under a few places good samaritan laws. Mainly due to people not wanting to get involved and it was felt that by legislating involvement people might stop to help and start caring, yeah right like that will happen.

Brian and constanze,
Mormons have never taken the position that blood transfusions are wrong or should be avoided. In fact, blood drives are a frequently encouraged charitable activity among LDS. Were you perhaps thinking of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

I think that I was. I knew it was one of those religions where I knew like 1 kid in school who was a member of it. LOL

JW's haven't changed their policy on blood.

The death of the Pope provided a dramatic contrast to the death of Terri Schiavo. He refused to go to the hospital and prolong his life (and suffering). This religious figure accepted that it was time for him to let go. America's Religious Right and conservatives refuse to learn from his example. Instead, Tom Delay wants to impeach judges (and withhold federal funding) whose rulings don't conform to religious beliefs...Judge Greer being a prime example.

Definition --

Activist Judge: One who doesn't rule in the way those in power want them to.

I heard DeLay talk about how he wants changes in the judiciary because judges are not ruling according to the will of the people. That's ridiculous. That's not the judges' job to rule according to the will of the people. The "Will of the People" could easily decide that an innocent man is guilty or a guilty man is innocent. The "Will of the People" could decide that minorities should not have equal rights. (And at one time, the courts did indeed go against the "Will of the People" on that one.) This isn't a popularity contest. It's interpreting the laws of this nation. It's part of the system of checks and balances, a system that DeLay and his ilk dislike, because it means they can't just have their way on everything, whenever they want it. They want a court that will rollover whenever they demand it. Pity that's not the way it's supposed to work.

"First we kill all the lawyers."

There used to be a thing in the US called Seperation of Powers, and the government was divided into three branches--legislative, judicial and executive--whose powers were "seperate but equal."
I wonder when the members of government (and indeed, the populace) forgot about all that?

The question you should ask yourself is if it ever existed...

I'm sure the laws were "bent" from the moment it became law.

Are you talking to me?

But seriously, folks...

I think there are problems with the courts, but the Schiavo case is, for me anyway, not an example of said problem.

The Schiavo case may not be an example of what's wrong with the courts, Mike, but it will provide DeLay and his posse with the excuse to remake it in their image to suit them. Sounds to me that they basically want to change the rules so they can win all the arguments.

"First we kill all the lawyers."

"I just took it for granted that we wouldn't be that dumb."

--Mel Martinez, Florida Senator, revealing that one of his aides wrote an unsigned memo last month citing the Terri Schiavo case as a "great political issue" for Republicans. From the April 18, 2005 Time magazine.

Rona: Err, one of the Pope's last acts was to concur with the Republican Leadership of the House on this issue of Terri Schivo. And for that matter, most "Quality of Life" School philosophers would have called the Pope's long declining health a prolonged, unnessicary death. Still, I can't fault you for origninal thinking.

RE: Delay: In exchange for overturning the entire New Deal, FDR threatened to pack the courts back in the 30's in a manner fitting the Second Earl of Grey, "persuaded" them to change, and what they called unconstitutional you now call "America's Sacred Trust." Just to put things in perspective.

FDR did try to pass the "court packing" bill that would have allowed him to appoint a new judge for each one who has been on the court for over 10 years I believe. But he dropped the whole thing when he prealized that a lot of people would have turned aginst him for it since it would have looked like he was tilting the system of checks and balances too far in his favor (which he was.)

More realistically, he dropped the thing when he realized he didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting it passed.

RE: FDR and the Courts: The courts also started finding the New Deal not unconstitutional, and the Justices started to retire. Basically, FDR wanted a constitutional monarchy (Strong Executive, Command of the Legistrature, Unlimited field of powers, strong national bureaucracy, Lifetime appointment to office) and treated the Supreme court like the House of Lords.

And if you want to go farther back, the Federalist Marshall Court lived in fear of Impeachment by the Democratic Congress, and did adjust to the popular will of the day.

But then again, everything did turn out okay. Considering Congress actually does have paper power over the structure, composite, and jurisdiction of the court, it should not result in the end of the world.

The results of Terri Schiavo's autopsy have been released, and there were no signs of abuse, a claim made by her parents against her husband. More here. However, the autopsy did not answer the lingering question of what made her collapse in the first place.

Boy are these people in denial!

"First we kill all the lawyers."

They're parents, Benn. Parents can be the ultimate true believers when it comes to their kids. They need to believe.

Well, duh. I'm not that stupid.

But, the Schindlers are liars, who made unfounded and ultimately false accusations of spousal abuse against their son-in-law.

Hey, is she still dead, or has she risen yet?

No the last I heard she, jimmy hoffa and elvis are all hanging out on the andrea doria.

But seriously it is sad that her parents are still in denial about her condition and that the govenor of florida is still grandstanding about this. (In case anyone missed it on yahoo there was an article where jeb bush sent a request to the state police to investigate the timeline for terri's husband's 911 call when she collapsed)

Talk about grandstanding. For crying out loud, even if Michael Schiavo is guilty of some sort of negligence (which I sincerely doubt) isn't there a little thing called "statute of limitations," which Bush, in his quest for the White House in 2008, seems all to eager to ignore? He seems to leave no stone unturned in his total kiss-up to the right wingers.

There is no statute of limitations on murder (I don't believe that Michael Schiavo is guilty of that at all, but if he were, you could charge him with murder, which there is no statute for--just nitpicking).

Robert Schindler, the father of the late Terri Schiavo, passed away 8/29/09 at the age of 71. More here.

I believe that the Vatican has said cremation is acceptable now...

It has. My cousin Gus, who passed away in mid-2019, was cremated. I don't know how devout a Catholic he was, but his mother, my now 90 year old aunt, sure is.

The poor woman.

All those years she was existing, not living.

Maybe her parents are now in the Other Place in a motel room with no doors where the only thing shown on the television is “Spock’s Brain” ;)

The father is dead, but is her mother?