A friend of mine who I’ll call NAU Watcher saw two videos (this one and this one), and claimed to be scared by their contents. My response to NAU Watcher triggered a bit of a back-and-forth via email, with NAU stating that although it was enjoyable, it was too time-consuming, so I’m posting the contents here. NAU Watcher’s stuff will be in blue. Mine will be the usual black with red quotes. NAU Watcher gave me permission to post this.
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In the first place, the idea that that government is distracting us with Elle magazine, professional sports, and the media is stupid. Private organizations, not the government, own magazines and sports teams. As for the media, one could certainly make an argument about Republican bias with Rupert Murdoch’s companies (Fox News, for example), but the government doesn’t own it, and the right wingers would never tolerate an abdication of sovereignty. Bush is a Republican, and Republicans, especially the fanatical right wing of it that got Bush into office, are historically ideologically opposed to a world government.
I find it hilarious that the one "mainstream reporter" that this dopey film holds up as the only one willing to discuss this is Lou Dobbs. Putting aside the fact that Dobbs is a commentator, and not a reporter, Dobbs is known for his paranoid nationalistic rantings on everything from immigration and immigrants (He questions the loyalty of citizens who identify themselves with hyphens, like "Italian-Americans") to outsourcing. The document he mentions is not a document to do away with U.S. sovereignty, it was an agreement by the leaders of the three countries to strengthen the prosperity and security of all three countries. But Dobbs is a paranoid dipstick, and completely twisted it. And the second video doesn’t even have anything to do with this agreement, but a completely separate one, one that also has nothing to do with ending the U.S. as a sovereign nation. You can check this out at Snopes.com, at: http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/nau.asp.
The assertion that the RealID would have to be carried around constantly is a lie. It would only be for people entering federal buildings, boarding airplanes and opening bank accounts. Keep in mind that most of use don’t enter Federal buildings on a regular basis, and for those of us who do, we’ve been already putting up with security at federal buildings for years, as when you go through a metal detectors at a courthouse, and lots more security since 9/11 anyway. As for airplanes, we’ve already been presenting ID when traveling on them too. They’re called passports. The only one of these three things for which carrying a special ID would be a new thing would be opening a bank account, which is hardly unreasonable, since again, banks already ask for a reliable ID when you open one. And to see the stupidity of arguing that the RealID might lead to having microchips implanted in our bodies, substitute "RealID" with "passports", and see how ridiculous it sounds.
The North American Union is an idea that has been discussed in academic circles, but there are no actual plans in our government to bring it about. The only ones who argue that there are such plans are the conspiracy nuts, like the ones who create films like this. I notice that the narrator’s voice sounds just like the narrator of Loose Change, that film that argued that 9/11 was a U.S. government conspiracy, despite the fact that all of its arguments have been debunked.
If you Wikipedia "North American Union" and "Amero", you’ll see that even those who are FOR such a union admit that American officials show no interest in the idea.
In any event, you really should take videos you see on the Internet (and anything that comes out Lou Dobb’s mouth) with a big grain of salt. You should also bookmark Snopes.com when you hear about stuff like this.
Hope this helps. :-)
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After I sent the above, I was watching Conan O’Brien, and by coincidence, Lou Dobbs was a guest. I then sent the following to NAU Watcher:
The guy is so anti-immigrant that–get this–he’s against holidays that celebrate specific ethnicities like Columbus Day or St. Patrick’s Day. He says we should celebrate holidays that are uniquely American, like Independence Day and Thanksgiving. Interestingly, he doesn’t explain why it has to be one or the other, rather than both, though he does say something that gives a strong clue as to this position’s origins: He mentions that he is a "mongrel". He doesn’t know where he or his family came from. And there you have it. He doesn’t know what country his family came from, so naturally, he lacks the perspective of someone who holds a certain sentiment for a different country where he or his parents may have been born, or where he might still have family. If he were a first-generation American with family living in another country like me, his point of view would likely be different. But it does give an interesting clue as to why he might go crazy at any agreement by the White House strengthening relationships with Mexico or Canada, and interpret it as a threat to our sovereignty.
Ya just gotta laugh at the guy.
Luigi
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NAU Watcher: I completely disagee. I believe that the North American Union that is "in the works" is just a way for a few of the rich elite to get more rich. It opens the borders for corporations, will devestate our economy and the GDP will fall and we will all wind up paying the price. I don’t know how you can be for this.
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There IS no North American Union "in the works".
The agreement you’re talking about has nothing to do with creating a North American Union. Check "North American Union" at snopes.com and Wikipedia, and you’ll see this.
As for opening up trade, I respect your right to your opinion, but it’s a completely separate issue.
Just out of curiosity, how do you feel that open trade or opening borders for corporations will devastate our economy?
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NAU Watcher: First of all, you don’t work for the government, which means you don’t know EVERYTHING.
Second, there has been talks about a North American Union. NOTHING official on paper and maybe the words "in the works" aren’t accurate but rather "discussions and talks are happening". You can go on youtube and find some videos of news stories on CNN, FOX, and many others. Here is one that is a conspiracy: --You may not like the hypothetical talks in this one.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo
Here is the search I did and you can choose which one you want to watch:
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=north+american+union&search=Search
Also, it is on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_american_union
-Given nothing is in stone but don’t think that this isn’t something that can be altered.
Third, Lou Dobbs has no problem with Canada, only Mexico because they basically don’t contribute to stimulate growth with the economy.
Also...
Lou Dobbs wants our borders basically closed, and doesn’t want us to let anyone in, particularly from Mexico unless everything is documented 100%.
That’s not that bad, but it’s what he wants to do with those who are already here that’s a problem.
I definitely don’t agree with him that people who have been living here for illegally 20+ years are criminals. I also disagree with his opinion on trade with China - I think it’s good and he thinks it’s bad.
Of course you can’t agree with everything someone says but if you open our borders and de-regulate, there are issues that come about even though I hate government regulation, sometimes, it is needed, to an extent.
As for open trade...
* It could lead to us only producing goods for other countries, which need to be shipped, which will hurt the environment.
* Corporations pay less money and can transfer goods more easily, both good and bad - they will have more power this way...
* I believe there should be less regulation but not completely open free trade
* There are others but my day is over and I’m going home...
Opening borders for corporations or opening them period...
* Could lead to companies hiring lower paid employees and eliminating jobs since we all know you can pay lower wages to immigrants - this by no means is to slander them but just fact. We do need them to take the jobs snobby Americans don’t want to do but a large influx would definitely affect us.
* Also, what about unemployment?
* Healthcare?
* Government assistance?
* Medicare?
* Immigrants would benefit from my paid tax dollars rather than improving current conditions, aid would be given to those that have less...
* Our GDP will decrease since we have the highest - I believe Mexico is at about 2,000 or something and Canada at 10,000 or something and we are at about 12,000 or something - not sure of the exact numbers but obviously it would decrease.
* There are others but my day is over and I’m going home...
In your response to myspace...
In the first place, the idea that that government is distracting us with Elle magazine, professional sports, and the media is stupid.
* Yes and no cause there are many people ignorant to what is going on and focus on celebrities rather than the world so it’s not entirely incorrect.
* As far as the government enforcing it and distracting us with it, not so much, but it does distract many!
As for your opinion on Lou Dobbs:
* It is just your opinion and the opinion of others as well. There are people who agree with him. He’s a liberal and he has liberal views - what did you expect?
* He might have views you disagree with but they aren’t completely far fetched - well some are and some really aren’t.
The assertion that the RealID would have to be carried around is a lie. It would only be to travel in and out of the country, like a passport (something we’ve already been using).
* It’s a conspiracy theory that the RealID is something they want to have carried out - like "Big Brother" type and if you research the new ID’s that the federal government is trying to push through, they are working on a federal ID. So the whole V-Chip inside of the Real ID isn’t so far fetched since as you mentioned, the passport already has it!
Interesting back and forth but I really don’t have time for it. Thanks though! We both differ in our views, it is what makes us different. Good luck !
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NAU Watcher: First of all, you don’t work for the government, which means you don’t know EVERYTHING.
I didn’t say that I did. If you want to refute what I said, then feel free to do so. Refuting things that I did not say is just a Straw Man argument, and pointless. If you’re going to disagree with someone, that’s cool. But keep the focus on the things they actually say. "-)
NAU Watcher: Second, there has been talks about a North American Union. NOTHING official on paper and maybe the words "in the works" aren’t accurate but rather "discussions and talks are happening".
Yeah. Talks. So what? People "talk" about lots of things. If you listen to a neo-Nazi or skinhead group, you could argue that there are plans “in the works” for a race war. If you listen to some amateur inventors, you could argue that there are plans “in the works” for free energy machines. If you listen to some members of the Flat Earth society, you could say there are plans “in the works” for a trip to the massive hole at the bottom of the Earth that will prove that the planet is hollow. The salient issue, however, is whether any of those people doing the talking are people with actual power and stature who could conceivably bring this about, or just media talking heads or fringe wackos. According to the sources I sent you, no one in our government is interested in the idea. So what difference does it make if people who have no power to bring it about “talk” about it.? Whether it actually comes to pass will depend on whether the American people want it, which I don’t think they do.
As for your point about my occupation, one does not have to work for the government to be able to make a valid assertion or point. Arguing otherwise is just argumentum ad hominem, and is a logical fallacy.
NAU Watcher: You can go on youtube and find some videos of news stories on CNN, FOX, and many others. Here is one that is a conspiracy:--You may not like the hypothetical talks in this one. http://youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77Zxo
You already posted that one in your bulletin, and I already responded to it.
NAU Watcher: Here is the search I did and you can choose which one you want to watch: http://youtube.com/results?search_query=north+american+union&search=Search
I already did my own search, and got the same results prior to making my response to your bulletin. Thanks. :-)
NAU Watcher: Also, it is on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_american_union
Yes, I know. I gave you that as one my sources when I responded to your bulletin.
NAU Watcher: Given nothing is in stone but don’t think that this isn’t something that can be altered.
Again, ANYTHING can be "altered". You could say the same thing about the 14th Amendment, the 19th Amendment, the 21st Amendment, Brown vs. The Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas, Gay Civil Union Laws, and all SORTS of things that we agree are good and vital. So what? The issue is not whether something can be altered. The issue is whether there is any real movement of any credibility to alter U.S. sovereignty (which would amending, if not doing away with completely, the U.S. Constitution), or any real chance of such a movement succeeding. Regarding the former question, there is none, and regarding the latter, it is exceedingly unlikely, especially at any time in the foreseeable future.
NAU Watcher: Of course you can’t agree with everything someone says but if you open our borders and de-regulate, there are issues that come about even though I hate government regulation, sometimes, it is needed, to an extent.
Of course. I’m for free trade, but not opening our borders and complete deregulation. (Some deregulation, but not total.)
NAU Watcher: Could lead to companies hiring lower paid employees and eliminating jobs since we all know you can pay lower wages to immigrants - this by no means is to slander them but just fact.
If you mean UNDOCUMENTED immigrants, well, isn’t that illegal? If anyone tries to let in the amount of immigrants Dobbs says they are in that second video (and again, I’d take anything he says with a big grain of salt), I don’t think Congress or the American people would allow it.
NAU Watcher: Yes and no cause there are many people ignorant to what is going on and focus on celebrities rather than the world so it’s not entirely incorrect.
The video states that the government is behind these things. Thus, it IS incorrect. Popular media and sports and stuff is driven by capitalism. Not the government. Those who do not pay attention to their government do fail to do so because they’re reading Elle or watching sports, since that would imply that people cannot do both, which is silly. People fail to watch their government because they’re apathetic and neglectful. Don’t you read popular magazines? Or watch sports or other popular things on TV? I sure do. And yet, I don’t think you or I are apathetic about our government.
NAU Watcher: It is just your opinion and the opinion of others as well. There are people who agree with him. He’s a liberal and he has liberal views - what did you expect? He might have views you disagree with but they aren’t completely far fetched - well some are and some really aren’t.
The central question to ask when evaluating anyone’s ideas, assertions or beliefs is whether they are based on solid fact, evidence, and/or rational, internally consistent reasoning. I find little in his quoted statements.
NAU Watcher: It’s a conspiracy theory that the RealID is something they want to have carried out - like "Big Brother" type and if you research the new ID’s that the federal government is trying to push through, they are working on a federal ID. So the whole V-Chip inside of the Real ID isn’t so far fetched since as you mentioned, the passport already has it!
I did research the RealID before composing my initial response to you, and it does not support the idea, as stated in that video you posted, that having a chip in your passport or RealID would lead to having it forcefully implanted in your body, a ridiculous non sequitur that would be completely unconstitutional.
The guy is so anti-immigrant that–get this–he’s against holidays that celebrate specific ethnicities like Columbus Day or St. Patrick’s Day. He says we should celebrate holidays that are uniquely American,
Columbus Day *IS* uniquely American. It celebrates the date of Columbus' first landing in the New World.
Columbus Day, though, tends to be associated with Italians, at least from my experiences.
I was thinking:
My friend was worried about the countries in North America forming a North American union, and having a currency called the Amero, similar to how many countries in Europe formed the European Union, whose currency (except for Britain) is the Euro.
So I was thinking.......
If all the countries on the African continent get together and form an African Union, does that mean their currency will be called the Afro?
Oh. My. God.
I spoke too soon!!!!
So that'll make it easy to "pick" your currency?
Sorry - I couldn't resist. Try the veal!
Um...........I don't get it. Elaborate?
A pick is one of those hair styling tools that black people sporting the hairstyle known as the "Afro" use to comb it.
If you ever saw "Spaceballs! The Movie!", they were using a pick to "comb the desert".
By the way, Luigi, your 4:19 post sounds just like Janice from "Friends".
Ah. Okay, I get Brian's explanation. I figured it was something like that. And although I've seen Spaceballs a gazillion times, I didn't get the connection between that an Afro.
But that last insult was completely uncalled for.
