In one scene in the ducts, Kryten mentions something about a creak. Kochanski immediately asks if this means Lister told Kryten that she makes a creaking noise when she has sex.
My question: How would Lister know this?
More importantly, what part or parts of Kochanski makes a creaking noise? Is she part wood? I've heard some odd noises during sex, but never creaking.:)
Maybe Lister knows from the three weeks that were going out together previously on Red Dwarf before he became three million light years from home? Or maybe Kochanski is referring to the Dave from her universe and just muddled things up in the heat of the moment?
No- Dave never went out with her. I think. In the novels he did, but I think it was just looks across the drive room in the 'real' Red Dwarf.
Maybe this is just another example of bad Red Dwarf 7 continuity.
Why was there a flashback in season seven of Lister coming back from shore leave with Frankenstein the cat and a meeting with Kochanski where he discusses being cut up about them breaking up?
Lister and Kriss did go out in 'this' universe, but they never had sex. (see "Balance Of Power")
All right then, maybe after they broke, Lister in desperation went and eavesdropped near her quarters and heard her having sex with her new flame.
Ewwww!
Give me a break, Chris!
All right, maybe Lister isn't like that - but maybe Rimmer did it, to come back and taunt Lister with this priceless information.
Now that I believe.
One problem though:
The Kochanski from this season isn't the same one Lister knew on the Red Dwarf, so all those arguments mentioned before are irrelevant.
So you're saying she'd make a different creaking noise because she's from a different universe, even if Rimmer had told Lister about the creakings of this universe's Kochanski?
Or maybe Kochanski just assumes the Lister of this universe knows what the Lister of her universe knows? Wouldn't be too hard to fall into that trap...
In the first episode of Series VI, Psirens, Kryten is telling Lister what he has forgotten. One of those things is how he wants to lie on top of Kochanski and move up and down in that way that humans like to do. So Kochanski and Lister having sex is actually a Series VI mistake, not VII.
THEY NEVER HAD SEX!!!! Check the books! What Kryten meant was that Lister hopes to lay Kochanski, not that he used to!
While it's clearly a bone of contention whether Lister and Kochanski had sex in the television series, the books indicate they did.
Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers talks about their three-week relationship, how she bought him new underpants and the fact they had a sexual relationship.
And at the start of Last Human, when Lister and Kochanski are revived they have sex straight away, despite Lister not being sure who she is.
I meant "The Red Dwarf Programming Guide" and other authoritative works of the show, but thanks for pointing that out.
The Programming Guide?
What like making a version of Holly?
I assume you mean the book by Chris Howarth and Steve Lyons- The Red Dwarf Programme Guide.
My copy- well my two copies- first edition (to V) and the revised edition (to VI) don't mention this episode so I couldn't possibly comment. I can't be bothered to get the new edition because it has the face of the evil one who must burn on the cover. And it has some plot summaries which by definition must be terrible.
Still, on another topic entirely, how can you be sure that the guide is not Completely Useless ;-)
Actually, I have a recent version that goes to VII, but that's not my point. Nowhere in that book does it say that (in the show) Lister or any version of Kochanski had sex - ever.
"Still, on another topic entirely, how can you be sure that the guide is not Completely Useless ;-)"
You chose to ignore that point. Apart from being a reference to other books by the authors, I was trying to say that they might be wrong, or have misinterpreted something.
"Nowhere in that book does it say that (in the show)
Lister or any version of Kochanski had sex - ever."
Does it say that they didn't? I assume it does, because otherwise your point isn't valid. The authors could have made a mistake anyway or just given their interpretation.
Anyway as Keith Alan Morgan says in an earlier post:
"In the first episode of Series VI, Psirens, Kryten is telling Lister what he has forgotten. One of those things is how he wants
to lie on top of Kochanski and move up and down in that way that humans like to do."
This makes it pretty clear that he never got to do that thing. I suppose you could interpret it as something else but...
Many references in Season I seem to indicate that Lister had not had the courage to ask her out or something- NO SEX ANYWAY
esp. "Balance of Power" (GO WATCH IT!)
IMHO, the earlier references are more valid than any RD VII one, as the episodes are not a load of smeg.
I hope that settles it, and we can have less 'perverse' discussions. :-)
Well, here's a bit more fuel for the fire after watching Krytie TV...
Kochanski asks Lister why he was looking at her on the hidden camera shower show and says "Besides, you've seen me naked, when we were going out".
It's not sex, obviously, but it sounds like they might have been up to something intimate.
Watch the flashback scenes in "Ouroboros" and all your questions will be answered. I know that this was an alternate universe, but the only difference was that Kochanski found the cat.
Ok here's something that could change everything. This isn't my own theory- in fact it is the one GN uses to explain away the differences between Season 2 + 3. The episodes after "Parallel Universe" are set in an alternate reality, where Red Dwarf had a different interior, and Kryten had a different appearance. This does explain away most inconsistencies, and almost explains the worst nit in the series- Kochanski's different appearance later on in the series. This does also explain away whether Lister and KK went out/had sex. In the 2nd version, they went out for three weeks (as recounted in Psirens).
I say almost because of Psirens, when she appears in the form of C.P. Grogan.
However, if we say that every episode after "Out of Time" is in yet another universe (where everything is smeggingcrap, presumably ;-) ) This explains those stupíd flashbacks, some of which were to the real (as in the 3rd real one!) universe and still featured the blue uniforms. In this 3rd universe, they went out, and had sex.
However we then need yet another shift to explain away the inconsistencies in the appearance of Red Dwarf in RD 8.
However it doesn't end there. We then need alternate versions of RD I-VI, with the (smeggingcrap) remastered graphics.
Clumsy and awkward, but I doubt we'll get a much better explanation.
Oi! The problems of nitpicking!
Canadian Dwarfer: Kochanski doesn't say she creaks, she says she makes a noise like a rusty gate.
Also I saw Psirens rerun a few weeks ago and Kryten's desription of Lister & Kochanski's relationship sounds sexual. Although, it's possible that Lister may have embellished what happened, it sounded like Kryten believes there was a sexual relationship.
Chris Thomas: Red Dwarf is not 3 million light years from home. That would put them outside our galaxy. Besides Future Echoes makes it clear that Holly doesn't like flying at light speed.
OK, Kryten's personality problems can be explained by the events revealed in Beyond A Joke, but Lister's claustrophobia is just bad writing.
Kochanski says there is a star to the west. West? While there is a galactic North and South, wouldn't it be more useful to say Port or Starboard, when referring to external objects?
Why would there be a backwash through the ducts? Wouldn't this cause leakage in the rooms where there are hatches?
If the generator is off, then how can there be a gust of air to dry the ducts?
If Red Dwarf isn't 3 million years from home, why did Holly give this little message at the start of most of the episodes of seasons one and two?:
"Three million years from Earth, the mining ship Red Dwarf. Its crew: Dave Lister, the last human being alive; Arnold Rimmer, a hologram of his dead bunkmate; and a creature who evolved from the ship's cat. Message ends."
Or was my huge, monumental, not-very-Keith-Alan-Morgan-like blunder to say light years, instead of just years?
If so, my humblest of all humblest apologies.
Chris- you inadvertantly placed the word light in between 'three million' and 'years' hence the confusion. No-one is saying that RD isn't 3 million years away from Earth.
Sheesh. I'm sorry.
Some people don't know the difference between 'light year' and 'year' and I didn't know if you were one of those or had just made a simple mistake.
I'm sorry and I won't read any of your entries again, so I won't be tempted to point out any more mistakes.
Is it possible that Lister found about Kotchanski creaking from someone else on the ship because he seems to know a lot of the crew. (Could be worth making a list)
Hey, hey, my last post was a joke! A deeply sarcastic one, I'll admit, but a joke nonetheless.
OK, I messed up. I'm often very tired when I come here, it's often late at night after work.
Yes, yes, I should know a light year is a measure of distance, not time. Can a credible "ooops" let you all forgive me?
Perhapse the chef made a video and Lister found it while playing that game where they search through the dead crew's lockers? Perhaps when Kryten said the bit about the rusty gate, Krissi thought that Lister had somehow found out.
It is a difficult issue, this Kochanski/Lister did/didn't go out thing. In Seasons One and Two, he quite clearly hadn't. On at least one occasion I can recall, he quite clearly says that he didn't ask her out, and that maybe she'd have said yes if he had. There's certainly a fair few other inferences.
By Red Dwarf IV, though, he explicitly refers to something that happened to him after he broke up with Kochanski. And, of course, there's that exchange in Psirens.
I guess one could conclude that he never went out with Kochanski (at least not in his timeline/dimension) and that he justs lies/deludes himself otherwise. The others, knowing how deep-seatedly cut up he is about it, just let him go with it.
Yeah, I know, that's dodgy. And, in fact, Rob 'n' Doug pretty much said they just changed it because they thought it was silly.
Incidentally, he consistently refers to the love of his life by her surname until she turns up. A bit curious, that. Hrm.
Myself, I quite like Red Dwarf VII...
I just think the nit lies in Red Dwarf VIII when no-one notices, but I think the Annette Kochanski is from the other world, and the Grogan one is from ours.
Which other world? The parallel universe? If that's the case, why don't they look anything alike?
Well, for the same reason the Cat has a really deep voice, Kryten's gold...
In short, 'parallel universe'. Just not a very parallel one.
Maybe in that universe the Inquisitor judged Kochanski that she didn't lead a worthwhile life and let a different Kochanski be born?
Well, I came up with my own theory. With people coming in from alternate universes, messing about with causality, etcetera, the universe gets really screwed up, and to deal with this it merges with parts of other universes to avoid gaping wholes, random disasters, and everything going crazy. However, this leads to parts of dimensions merging and what actually HAPPENED keeps changing. There; excuse for any continuity error ever. Well, um, maybe except Kochaski II being COMPLETELY different to Kochanski I. Ah, just, shuttup, okay? -_-
Whee, first post on an inactive-for-7-years board and I don't even bother introducing myself! Yay! :D
Good a theory as any, IMO.
“A key ring with a C on it? Thank you with a capital R!”
If it wasn’t for a couple of lines like that from Kryten in Duct Soup it would completely unwatchable. As it is, it’s just mostly terrible.
Every show has it's clunkers. *cough* Magic Trees *cough*.
RD is no different in that regard.