On the Jimmy Kimmel Show last night, Matthew Fox promised that we'll get a couple of glimpses of the monster on Wednesday.

Promises, promises...

It's true. They also said that in TV Guide. IIRC, the article said something to the effect of that we'd see like, 5% of it.

So from the sound of it 5% would be what the big toe? One claw? The thumping goign through the forest soudns like somethign very big. I almost wanna compare it to a mech going through there. So I wonder what it will look like? A T-rex, a giant mech, a giant fluffy white rabbit?
I can hardly wait.

It's the meanest rabbit you'll ever see!

Of course, Hurly already hopes it's not a "pissed-off giraffe"!

Some predictable moments.

As soon as Arzt starting preaching to Jack, Kate, Locke and Hurley in the teaser how dangerous dynamite is, and how it has to be handled carefully, was I the only one for whom it was obvious that he'd buy it himself right there and then? I was a bit surprised that we didn't see any bloody pieces of him fall onto the others. Hurley doesn't even notice any until two Acts later. Now we know why they didn't redshirt him in the part I. They were waiting to do so until part II. Though I wonder if Arzt's funeral with get the focus, sad music, and an entire episode stemming from it that Boone's did. Given that Boone's death was seen as a tragedy, complete with tears and everything, and Hurley just says, “Whoa” right after Arzt dies, I doubt it. His lamentation in the beginning of the following Act makes up for it a bit, though.

And was I the only one who, when Michael made his surprising statements to his Mom in the opening scene of Act 4 about Walt “not supposed to be his” knew that Walt would be standing nearby to overhear the entire thing?

What was wrapped in Sawyer's shirt that Michael discovered? Was this revealed, and I just missed it, or is it not intended to be shown until later?

Okay, so Charlie and Sayid come across the beachcraft filled with heroin. I guess we all know what's gonna happen next with Charlie.

In the closing scene of Act 4, Locke tells Jack that they should stagger-walk each a safe distance apart. But then in the second scene of Act 5, Locke allows Hurley to walk right up to him.

At the end of Act 7 (or 8?), Michael tells Sawyer that he couldn't figure out why Sawyer wanting on the raft, because he couldn't see why someone who doesn't care about anyone else would risk his life to save a bunch of strangers. But who says that that was ever Sawyer's reason? Michael says that he's either a hero or wants to die. Why doesn't Michael consider the third possibility: that Sawyer just wants to save his own hide, and figured the raft was the best bet?

Why is a special wheelchair needed for Locke to get on the plane? What's wrong with the one he has?

Why, when Sayid and Charlie hear the baby crying, do they call out to Danielle? Shouldn't they hide and try and wait for her to come out so they can surprise her? Why give away to her the fact that they're there?

I just knew that boat was gonna be trouble before that extra from the cast of Deliverance opened his mouth.

The flashback montage of the cast when they were boarding the plane was nice.

Ah, so that Flash comic belonged to Hurley.

The ending wasn't much of a shocker. A long passageway, in itself, doesn't inspire much awe. The taking of Walt by the Others, the shooting of Sawyer, and the burning of the raft was a WAY more shocking scene. The creators should've switched them, placing the discovery of what was inside the hatch first, and then the scene with the Others last. That would've been a great shocker on which to leave viewers hanging for the summer.

Oh wowo ohwow ohw wowowowowowowowowow!!!!!!

Ok. *deep breath* wow what an episode. I guess Arzt did serve a vital purpose. He showed how not to handle sweaty dynamite. Its tempermental.

The flashbacks showing how everybody tied together and all their paths just converged at the plane. Too cool.

One thign the defense system sounded like a steampunk version of a mech. But it looks like it was underground, and pretty deep underground from the way the explosion sounded. And what was with the black smoke after the explosion?

Rosseau got confused about which boy they wanted. Wow. Kinda thought that might sorta be but wasnt sure but i can see it after the fact. Walt has some kind of power and the others want it.

Speaking of the others they are 4 scruffy looking pirates on a motorized rowboat? Somehow I think appearances are quite deceiving.

So the comic was hurley's. Interesting. He also certainly does seem to have some rather bad luck in regards to electronics and such. A land rover blowing up like that, his power converter, I expected the power scooter he bought to blow up somehow. But at least he has a great attitude about everything.

Speaking of hurley, his lotto numbers. How many interconnections to his numbers are there? Kate's reward was 23 grand, the numbers are what rosseau was sending, the numbers appeared on the gpod, anythign else?

And they finally get the hatch open and its a deep dark shaft with a busted ladder. Whoa. And it looked like it wasn't done with or by the dynamite.

Some really great lines:
Hugo:"Um Dude you have some Arzt on you.."
Sawyer:"Hey han and chewie...."

Layer upon layer. I can't wait until they come back...

OK luigi thanks for beating me to the first one. But to answer your questions:

Sawyer had a gun hidden in his shirt. The one that he went for when the deliverance extras showed up.

I personally thought it was an effective ending with the big boom of the raft blwoing up and then leaving them hopeless adrift in the ocean. We cut to the heroic 4 (or 5 if you have a policy of men his size counting for two seats) runnign up and draggin open the hatch with hope and dread(especially after hurley's no we can't do this number bad freak out) mixed up only to see that only one layer has been peeled back to expose one more.

As long as the creaters manage to keep the various layers from getitng too stale and too predictable (a little bit predictable is ok) or too gilliganish the show will be great.

What does "15-16-23-44" mean?

Man, did Arzt get redshirted or what?

So is Sawyer dead for good?

I was helping my daughter with homework and missed about 10 minutes. From the commercial break just after John and Locke's fate/destiny discussion to just before they blew the hatch. How did Sayid and Charlie get Aaron back?

What was wrapped in Sawyer's shirt that Michael discovered? - Luigi Novi

I assumed it was the gun he pulled out later.


Why is a special wheelchair needed for Locke to get on the plane? What's wrong with the one he has? - Luigi Novi

I could be mistaken, but I don't think airplane aisles are wide enough to accomodate regular wheelchairs.


Ah, so that Flash comic belonged to Hurley. - Luigi Novi

He is the one character we know speaks Spanish. And I think it's a Green Lantern comic, featuring the Flash.


The ending wasn't much of a shocker. A long passageway, in itself, doesn't inspire much awe. - Luigi Novi

I agree. Though I assumed that was how the season would end.


Speaking of hurley, his lotto numbers. How many interconnections to his numbers are there? Kate's reward was 23 grand, the numbers are what rosseau was sending, the numbers appeared on the gpod, anythign else? - R

Offhand... Danielle's been on the island for 16 years. Sawyer says his father killed himself when he was 8 years old. Airplane was at Gate 23. Hurley's seat row assignment was 23, too, I believe. The travel odometer on the car Hurley was driving read 42 just before it shut off... and the speedometer read 8.

How did Sayid and Charlie get Aaron back?

They followed the black smoke to find a fire burning at an empty beach. Then they heard the baby cry. Crazy chick comes out of the woods and says she wanted Alex back and wanted to trade or something because she overheard the others talking about wanting "the boy". Charlie takes turnip head and lets crazy lady have it verbally.

Oh, and in case you missed it, on the way to the beach they come across the plane crash that killed Boone, and Charlie apparently takes one of the heroin filled statues. (Though that could just be a mislead, and it turns out he's Catholic and wanted the statue for itself, just a thought, way too early to really say.)

Arzt doesn't get a funeral. He wasn't one of the "cool kids".

Why is a special wheelchair needed for Locke to get on the plane? What's wrong with the one he has?

Maybe it's too wide? Don't planes have fairly narrow aisles? Just a guess. Otherwise it might just be some nutty policy with no real reason.

Man, this is going to be a long summer...

He is the one character we know speaks Spanish. And I think it's a Green Lantern comic, featuring the Flash.

We see him reading it on the plane, and the cover specifically says "Flash".

As for the wheelchair, airlines *always* use special wheelchairs on a plane.

Thanks Anonymous, and yeah I did see the interlude at the drug smugglers' plane. I saw Charlie looking hard at the drugs, and saw the little statue in his bag at the end.

Scott, do you need a tape of the ep? Or are they going to be rerunning this?

So glad I watched this last night instead of Americal Idol (which I don't watch anyway...)

I'm surprised Arzt waited until they got the dynamite out of the ship before explaining exactly what was so dangerous about transporting it (it was why he insisted on coming along in the first place).

Anyone ever see "The Wages of Fear"? A classic suspense movie about two teams of guys in trucks that have to transport sweaty dynamite several hundred miles. It starts a little slow, but is a real nail-biter. Remade later as "Sorcerer" with Roy Scheider.

When did Sawyer say "Hey Han and Chewie"? I can't believe I missed that.

I also felt I had to note that it was Hurley's comic book (especially after I suggested it might belong to the woman Jack talked to in the airport bar.) It all smacks of wrapping up one small question that we had while holding off on the big ones. Like at the end of one Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy TV episode. The episode ends, the credits roll and begin to fade, and the announcer states "Arthur bruised his arm." As if the viewers were so concerned about that question...

That hatch seemed to blow loose very nicely. Imagine if one or two bolts had remained attached. What, was it glued on?

As soon as Danielle said "the boy" and not "the baby" I went "Ruh-roh!" and knew that Walt would somehow be involved.

Arzt's demise was rather expected, but also rather surprising in its execution (sorry). He's obviously been an impatient jerk for a while, witness the scene at the airport.

I think it's now very clear that the "monster" is something mechanical.

The raft couldn't have gotten all that far from the island in a few hours -- would they really expect to be in the shipping lanes so soon? (Sure, why not, I guess.)

When they got into the hold of the Black Rock, I was looking for One-Eyed Willie (and his treasure!)

"It was Hurley's comic book."

No, Thanks Luigi, bit it's not necessary.

I am of a generation and a culture where that is not my normal language, but when Hugo cried "Dude!" at the end of Arzt's final scene (Or was it his next to last? Does jack having some ..."Arnzt" on him count as a scene for Arzt?), it was an echo. Just moments before I heard the same word comung out of my mouth. It just seemed the only appropriate possible reaction.

What was wrapped in Sawyer's shirt that Michael discovered? Was this revealed, and I just missed it, or is it not intended to be shown until later?

No it was not shown, but it was obvious that it had to be the gun that Jack had given him, since he could not get that wet. It was confirmed when, during their argument Michael asked "Or what? You'll shoot me?"

Ah, so that Flash comic belonged to Hurley.

He is the one character we know speaks Spanish. And I think it's a Green Lantern comic, featuring the Flash.
We see him reading it on the plane, and the cover specifically says "Flash".

The English-language original was a Green Lantern title, but sometimes for the foreign language market a story from a title that is not carried will be inserted into the trun of another title if it can be at all justified (usually because the storyline crosses over).

We see him reading it on the plane, and the cover specifically says "Flash". - ScottN

Look more carefully. The top of the cover says something in "Green Lantern" font in what I assume is Spanish... which makes sense in the context of Walt who can conjure things. "The Flash" is underneath the title. It's just more readable because it's in English.

I suppose it could be a GL/Flash combo title. But I always assumed it's a GL title featuring Flash.

Anyone have this issue in English?


The English-language original was a Green Lantern title, but sometimes for the foreign language market a story from a title that is not carried will be inserted into the trun of another title if it can be at all justified (usually because the storyline crosses over). - TomM

Ah... thank you!!!


BTW, forgot to mention that Sawyer refers to Walt as "Kazoo," a reference to Fred Flintstone's magical alien friend who can... conjure things at will.

Sawyer said that when there was the radar blip and they where trying to figure thigns out.

The raft couldn't have gotten all that far from the island in a few hours -- would they really expect to be in the shipping lanes so soon? (Sure, why not, I guess.)

Michael makes just that point when Sawyer wants to turn on the radar -- it's what their argument is all about. We find out that they are only about 15 miles out at that point.

I was disappointed in the season finale. If you think about it, nothing really happens until toward the end. The least they could do was have something happen. I found the season finale to be boring. The least they could have done was answer some questions about the island.

Isn't it an interesting coincidence that this episode, which has sparked all this discussion of the Green Lantern comic, premiered on the same day that a brand new Green Lantern series premiered with issue #1, following the return of now-no longer deceased Hal Jordan?

Other things I forgot to mention: Arzt's mention of how Jack and the others are not the only ones in the group sounded a bit self-referential. And his questioning of why Hurley hasn't apparently lost weight almost seemed like the creators' way of poking fun at one of the show's premise's flaws.

TomM: When Hugo cried "Dude!" at the end of Arzt's final scene...
Luigi Novi: Ah. I thought he said, "Whoa." Just double-checked, and you're right.

Darth: BTW, forgot to mention that Sawyer refers to Walt as "Kazoo," a reference to Fred Flintstone's magical alien friend who can... conjure things at will.
Luigi Novi: So one's a Green Lantern, and the other's a green guy.

Actually, it's "Gazoo", not "Kazoo". As in "The Great Gazoo".

From the summary:

Claire names her baby Aaron. In the Book of Exodus, Moses' brother Aaron leads the people into the Promised Land.

Sorry, Aaron was indeed Moses' brother. But :

1. He was the High Priest, not the leader.
2. The people didn't get led into the Promised land in Exodus, but in Deuteronony.
3. Aaron didn't lead them into the Promised Land, Joshua did.

The number 23 (one of the cursed numbers) means something to Kate; the reward for her capture in Australia was $23,000. Flight 815 also departs from Gate 23.

Also, flight 815. 8+15 = 23.

This could get as bad as the Trek 47s!

I thought some key questions were pretty much settled in this ep- both the 'others' and the 'security system' are not of a supernatural nature. The island seems to be a base of operations for some sort of nefarius society of pirates/smugglers/whatever who will act in extreme measures to maintain their secrecy. But that leads to another question- why haven't they just killed everyone like they did to Rousseau's group? And what do they do with the children?

A lot of mythology-type shows tend to do that sort of thing, so for now I'm happily along for the ride. Interestingly enough one of the Producers/Writers of Lost is Carlton Cuse, co-creator of the cult show The Adventures of Brisco County Jr., another show with a mythology about it. In that one they decided to solve the whole shebang about 3/4ths of the way through the first season and that was all she wrote.

There is an interesting dynamic developing between Jack and Locke that I'm sure will be explored in the next season, but for now Locke sure is acting like somebody caught up in the grips of a faith healer. I guess he has reason to, being he was, you know, healed and all.

The ending wasn't much of a shocker. A long passageway, in itself, doesn't inspire much awe. The taking of Walt by the Others, the shooting of Sawyer, and the burning of the raft was a WAY more shocking scene. The creators should've switched them, placing the discovery of what was inside the hatch first, and then the scene with the Others last. That would've been a great shocker on which to leave viewers hanging for the summer. - Luigi Novi

I think that one is a tough call. Obviously ending with a shaft leading to 'who knows what' for the next season is what the writers went with. But the scene on the raft was strong enough to leave an impact even with its placement.

Logically I'm not sure how any of those three guys can survive, being 15 miles from shore. And Sawyer was shot, and he's bleeding, and there are bound to be sharks...lots to worry about until September, I guess.

It's definitely time to get out the Bob Marley to pass the time...

Yeah, I got all of my biblical info. from TV Tome. I was wondering if it would actually be right.

It's definitely time to get out the Bob Marley to pass the time

Who doesn't like Bob Marley?

Arzt doesn't get a funeral. He wasn't one of the "cool kids"

What, precisely, would they bury? I guess they could bury a few "pieces of Arzt". Remember, also, the fearless foursome is at the hatch/tunnel, the rest of the group is in the cave, and time is short before The Others come. They haven't had a chance to mourn yet.

Mike, I wasn't saying that Walt's kidnapping didn't have an impact. Oh no. It had a HUGE one. I just think that that's the scene on which they should've left viewers hanging for the summer.

Anonymous: Arzt doesn't get a funeral.
Luigi Novi: We don't know that. The may hold a service when they get the chance.

Luigi- I didn't mean 'impact' in a dramatic sense. I meant it in a "Mr. Worf, fire" sense though I agree that ending it the other way would've been awesome. But I think the way they did it also has its advantages.

Nit: They're supposed to be spread out so they don't blow each other up. But at one point, Hurley is right on Locke's tail.

I'm surprised Arzt waited until they got the dynamite out of the ship before explaining exactly what was so dangerous about transporting it (it was why he insisted on coming along in the first place). - Influx

I agree- if he didn't want to go exploring the ship he should have at least been explicit that they should come to him if they found something. (and I bet Kate's glad that she didn't go wailing on the crate...) Also- when Arzt was giving his lecture about nitro-glycerine he seemed to choose one of the leakiest sticks, putting himself in more danger.

Here are a couple of things I just picked up from TV Tome:

- The bearded man who led the 'others' looked familiar to me, and it turns out that he is played by M.C Gainey who also played Big Smith on none other than The Adventures of Brisco County Jr (see my earlier post about Carlton Cuse)

- There are '42' people in line at the airport security checkpoint when Hurley tries to cut ahead.

I heard the promo for what they called the "secret scene", which I figured was going to be about as important to the story as most "deleted scenes" on DVDs nowadays. Which means, not very...

Anyone have this issue in English?
I'll be looking for it. I think it came out before I stopped buying comics. GL and Flash are two of my favorite comics heroes.

It's really interesting to see Locke's transformation. On the plane he seems rather defeated and embarassed. On the island he is one of the "top dogs", so to speak.

Truth to tell, this whole "blow the hatch" mission smacks of a deus ex machina (and I have no idea how that is pronounced) or maybe just a Macguffin (I can pronounce that!) in that they never had time to go get the dynamite, extract it, get it to the hatch, blow it, get all the people gathered from the beach or the cave, transport them to the hatch, and get them all inside, in the time it took to get dark (the supposed deadline stated by Danielle).

Nevertheless, this is one of the few shows I have been riveted to this season.

Scott, I beat you to that nit above.

Influx, I believe Janeway pronounced it (I think in Spirit Folk(VOY)) as DAY' oos ex MAHK' ee nah.

That's correct. It's the Greek pronunciation. The term is from classic Greek drama, literally meaining "god out of the box". They would lower the character of one of the gods onto the stage, and he'd set all the problems right by fiat.

Not a particularly good resolution.

deus ex machina at Wikipedia. Second paragraph is pronunciation. In case anyone's even wondering anymore.

I suppose it could be a GL/Flash combo title. But I always assumed it's a GL title featuring Flash.

I might have it someplace, but if I do I have no idea where. Anyway, it's not a Green Lantern comic guest starring the Flash or vice versa, it is a "combo" title, a miniseries called "Green Lantern/Flash - Faster Friends".

Here are a couple of links to some pages with the covers from the series.

Issue #1
Issue #2

Interesting. On the cover to issue one it's Green Lantern/Flash, but on issue two, it's Flash/Green Lantern. Guess that's fair.

BTW, forgot to mention that Sawyer refers to Walt as "Kazoo," a reference to Fred Flintstone's magical alien friend who can... conjure things at will.

Isn't it Gazoo? Or more properly, the Great Gazoo?

Actually, it's "Gazoo", not "Kazoo". As in "The Great Gazoo".

I knew it!

the 'security system' [is] not of a supernatural nature.

You sure? What was with that weird black cloud/smoke/whatever? It seemed to be moving in a most unnatural way.

What, precisely, would they bury?

Good point. So now just change it to "Artz doesn't get a funeral, because he's not one of the 'cool kids' and thus unworthy of our seeing any grief over his death".

Luigi Novi: We don't know that. The may hold a service when they get the chance.

I was just making a joke about it. He was complaining about not being part of the clique, so when you brought up the possibility of his getting a funeral, I ran with it.

Or are they going to be rerunning this?

It's rerunning Saturday the 28th. Check your local listings yadda yaddle yoda.

the 'security system' [is] not of a supernatural nature.

You sure? What was with that weird black cloud/smoke/whatever? It seemed to be moving in a most unnatural way. - Anonymous

I watched the ep again last night and that part did seem ambiguous, and it could probably be explained either way, though I wouldn't be surprised if there were hidden negative air pressure vortexes or whatever pulling the smoke in different ways. For now I'm going to put it into my mental "The producers have the right to yank your chain at any moment" file

On a related note- it's a good thing that the dynamite was previously established as being unstable or they might not have had the time to save Locke, what with having to hook up a fuse and light it and all...

I found this season-ender to be disappointing.

Probably the worst part of it for me was the arrival of the "others" in the boat. I had the same reaction as Luigi. I thought they looked as if they could have come straight out of Deliverance too. Jimmy Kimmel joked on his show that the others looked like they came from "Neverland Island". It was creepy how they just wanted the boy. Their arrival also brought about a pedestrian twist to the end. There seemed to be little magic or mysticism about them.

As to the creature, to say its brief appearance was unsatisfying would be an understatement. The phantom wisps looked more like then invisible alien in Predator than any sort of "security system". There can be no rational explanation for it. The show is now firmly established as fantasy or science fiction (that doesn't bother me, but some critics will hate it).

Just when Arzt was beginning to get interesting, he was killed off. His conversation with Hurly was great. I wouldn't say it was all that realistic; it seemed more a device to explain the show's ignoring the other passengers. Honestly, it's hard to see Hurly as being part of some exclusive "clique". Sawyer isn't really a part of that clique; he's always off alone. Locke is always off alone too. Did Artz want to get between Jack and Kate? Anyway, teens will probably find Artz's observations about high-schoolers amusing.

Not that we really wanted to see it, but news accounts of suicide bombers would indicate that everyone would be covered with more "Arzt" (not just a individual piece on Jack) than what was shown.

Charlie sure did come off as mean-spirited when he described Rousseau as "pathetic" and a "nut-case". Geez, have a little more sympathy for a woman who lost her child.

I had a problem with Kate throwing the dynamite into the tunnel Locke was hanging in. Shouldn't the explosion have injured or violently knocked him around. The explosion merely scared the monster out of the tunnel. For a security system, the monster wasn't very effective. It fled. Shouldn't a security system stay to repell the intruders?

Charlie sure did come off as mean-spirited when he described Rousseau as "pathetic" and a "nut-case". Geez, have a little more sympathy for a woman who lost her child. - Rona

And yet you don't show the same sympathy for Walt in the previous episode... and he just lost his parents... it didn't happen 16 years ago!

Again, Rousseau is clearly not thinking with a full deck. I mean, she kidnapped an infant, set potentially deadly traps to stop pursuers, and all so that she can trade the baby for her own child. Charlie is absolutely right. She's a nutjob!


Shouldn't a security system stay to repell the intruders? - Rona

I'd imagine the "security system" is mechanical, not biological. The dynamite may have broken that particular mechanism.

In any case, even if it were biological, it was probably intended to repel human intruders... not dynamite. I mean, even a savage watchdog might retreat if it receives a bullet in the leg.

Geez, have a little more sympathy for a woman who lost her child.

He did. The woman in question, however, was Claire.

I am sorry but rosseau is a nutjob. She whacks a woman in the back of the head to steal her baby so she can run to the evil bad people so she can try and trade that child for hers which they took 16 years ago and may not be alive or in a state to come back (or so brainwashed that he wouldnt want to come back). That to me does not equate to thinking with all cylinders running. She has enouhg brain cells up to stay alive, keep hidden all the baser animal instincts but some of the higher

Speaking of brain cells yeah it was rather unfortunate for arzt to grab the worst looking stick in the box to use as his example. Maybe he had read a lot about dynamite in his science classes but had never actually handled it? There can be a lot said for direct experience.

I have been thinking about the security system. What if it is some kind of biomechanical being? I mean the sounds it made definately sounded like a mech (stam vlaves, clanking chains etc..) but when it blew it let off that black vapor that to my eyes looked like it moved under its own power.

And when has this show not ever been sci-fi/fantasy? I mean from the moment the plane crashed to the polar bears on a tropical island there have been quite a few clues that things are a bit twilight zone there.

I wasn't as impressed with this one as I was with Part 1. It wasn't a bad episode, but it didn't have the "Who Shot J.R.?" scale cliffhanger that the creators said it would. And I agree with anyone who said that the boat scene should have been the one to end the season. It wouldn't be the most creative, but it would be better than showing us that inside the hatch is a really long tunnel with an old broken ladder.

That said, I still enjoyed quite a lot of it. The flashbacks were interesting, Hurley's by far being the best(I loved his reaction to the airline's policy concerning his girth). I like seeing some of the characters bond. And I did not think that they would actually encounter another boat on the water. I can't believe that the "Others" actually have a boat. It really has me wondering what their motivations and intentions are. And what their status is.

That Claire/Rousseau flashback was interesting. I wonder if Ethan was actually working with her rather than "The Others". Or if Rousseau actually encountered her while the Others had her, what they wanted with her.

As some have mentioned, the episode was pretty predictable. I held my breath waiting for Arzt to explode, I guessed Walt would hear what Michael said on the phone, I wondered if the Others were really after Walt when Rousseau told Charlie and Sayid that the voices wanted "the boy", and I was fairly certain (let's say 60%) that Charlie would take some heroin. I wonder what'll happen when Locke finds out.

I can't believe I never considered that that comic book belonged to Hurley. Makes sense though.

Luigi Novi: Though I wonder if Arzt's funeral with get the focus, sad music, and an entire episode stemming from it that Boone's did.
I also doubt it. I'm not even sure if his death will get as much attention as Joanna's or Scott's.

Luigi Novi: What was wrapped in Sawyer's shirt that Michael discovered? Was this revealed, and I just missed it, or is it not intended to be shown until later?
I wondered that as well, though I eventually reached the same conclusion that Sarcasm did. It was probably the gun.

Luigi Novi: Why, when Sayid and Charlie hear the baby crying, do they call out to Danielle? Shouldn't they hide and try and wait for her to come out so they can surprise her? Why give away to her the fact that they're there?
Apparently they don't consider a crazy woman carrying a shotgun to be a threat.

R: Sawyer:"Hey han and chewie...."
I liked the more subtle Han and Chewie reference from last week more than that one.

ScottN: So is Sawyer dead for good?
We'll find out in the fall. The creators are characteristically cryptic about that in the TV Guide article.

ScottN: Like at the end of one Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy TV episode. The episode ends, the credits roll and begin to fade, and the announcer states "Arthur bruised his arm." As if the viewers were so concerned about that question...
Really? I had not idea. I'm going to have to go back and watch for that.

Rona: Anyway, teens will probably find Artz's observations about high-schoolers amusing.
If not completely true.

Rona: Charlie sure did come off as mean-spirited when he described Rousseau as "pathetic" and a "nut-case". Geez, have a little more sympathy for a woman who lost her child.
I know that the recapper at TWoP is going to rip into him for that.

Rona: I had a problem with Kate throwing the dynamite into the tunnel Locke was hanging in. Shouldn't the explosion have injured or violently knocked him around. The explosion merely scared the monster out of the tunnel. For a security system, the monster wasn't very effective. It fled. Shouldn't a security system stay to repell the intruders?
It seemed like a pretty deep tunnel. I'm not too clear on how it would work, but couldn't any shockwave dissipate enough to not cause injury?

The tunnel seemed only pixel deep. It looked like an obvious CGI effect.

Charlie sure did come off as mean-spirited when he described Rousseau as "pathetic" and a "nut-case". Geez, have a little more sympathy for a woman who lost her child.

Oh come on, she just kidnapped a baby! She was going to trade someone else's baby to the others who she herself thinks are pretty bad people. That's awfully pathetic in my view. Also, she clearly IS a nut-case, and to say otherwise is delusional. It's like saying Hurley isn't fat, or Jin isn't Korean, or Locke isn't bald. Are you watching the same show?

Luigi Novi: What was wrapped in Sawyer's shirt that Michael discovered? Was this revealed, and I just missed it, or is it not intended to be shown until later?
I wondered that as well, though I eventually reached the same conclusion that Sarcasm did. It was probably the gun.

I've watched both airings of this episode, and both times I clearly saw the gun wrapped in the shirt.

I finally got around to reading the TV Guide article, and they said that Arzt was going to wind up a recurring character. Hah, not likely!

I find it interesting that the hatch looks quite different inside than you'd expect from the outside. Outside the structure is very wide for a ways, but inside, it's just got walls that extend more or less straight down from the opening. So is the rest of it solid metal? Hollow? Like I said, interesting.

ScottN: Like at the end of one Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy TV episode. The episode ends, the credits roll and begin to fade, and the announcer states "Arthur bruised his arm." As if the viewers were so concerned about that question...
Really? I had not idea. I'm going to have to go back and watch for that.

Um, that was my comment... If you're gonna do the Luigi thing, at least get the names right! (Which is why I usually only quote the text).

Thanks.

Anonymous Hurley is just big boned that is why he hasn't appeared to loose that much weight. ;-)

And yes the butt of the gun was clearly visible for a moment when michael picked up the shirt.

Maybe Arzt will start appearing in more flashbacks? I dunno.

Maybe the pod is armor plated or somethign? I don't know. That is somethign to think about.

I was not the poster with HHG reference -- That was Influx. (and by the way, the Arthur bruises his arm is in the book too).

Sorry about that Scott.


Influx, The "Luigi thing"?

Clearly you're new here.

Anonymous Hurley is just big boned that is why he hasn't appeared to loose that much weight. ;-)

Come now, it's not his bones that jiggle when he runs...

(Hey, I can say that, cause I'm "big-boned" myself.)

In any case, I don't expect him to lose weight, unless at least a few of the other castways start looking downright skeletal. If they don't have a problem maintaining their pre-flight weight, neither does it seem odd to me that Hugo would remain large and in charge, especially if you consider he's likely got a slower metabolism than oh, say, Charlie.

Anonymous I know what you mean. My wife's cooking has made me twice the man I used to be too. Ever since I went on that seefood diet.

LOL, is that the "if you can see it you can eat it" one?

After viewing it again Saturday, I still think Charlie comes off as very mean-spirited towards Rousseau. Sayid seems to be very sensitive on the other hand. Perhaps, Charlie was expressing some self-loathing; he was a drug addict after all. It appears that he probably took some heroin from the plane crash. I think some might be judging Rousseau from a somewhat biased perspective. If a man had survived 16 years alone on a island, he would be considered resourceful and intelligent. Rousseau is considered to be a "nut" however. She doesn't seem crazy to me. She possesses a quiet dignity in addition to her mysteriousness.

The monster. Still a let down; how was that wisp of smoke "the most beautiful thing" Locke ever saw? So beautiful, it brutally murdered the plane's Captain?

If a man survived 16 years on an island, and talked about hearing voices, attacked an innocent person to steal their child (to trade for his own), I'd call him a nutjob too.

Not everything needs to be viewed through the lens of "all men are oppressors".

Rona, it has nothing to do with Rousseau having a vagina instead of a wiener. You really should drop this persecution complex you seem to keep projecting into topics. It's awfully one note and tiresome.

Yes, Crazy French Chick is resourceful. Yes, Crazy French Chick is intelligent. I mean, if she wasn't intelligent, she wouldn't be on a research expedition in the first place, would she? But her resourcefulness and intelligence in no way cancel out the fact that she's a nut-case.

You can be smart and crazy. There's nothing mutually exclusive about it.

And no one cares one bit about her gender but you.

As for Charlie, he's mad, and rightfully so. Everyone should be mad when a child is kidnapped. Add to that the role of protector that he sees himself in for Claire, and his anger is all the more understandable. It would ring absolutely false if he hadn't said what he had or something similar. I mean, he killed Ethan because of this, so why is his insulting a crazy person any surprise?

Rona: The monster. Still a let down; how was that wisp of smoke "the most beautiful thing" Locke ever saw? So beautiful, it brutally murdered the plane's Captain?

That was only part of it (according to the creators, about 5%). Locke saw the whole thing. We don't know which part of the thing the wisps are or how they relate to it. Maybe they're just something that precedes or surrounds the main "body".

I do agree with you somewhat on Charlie. Had I been in Sayid's position, I would probably be telling him to relax.

I think some might be judging Rousseau from a somewhat biased perspective. If a man had survived 16 years alone on a island, he would be considered resourceful and intelligent. Rousseau is considered to be a "nut" however.
Luigi Novi: Apple and oranges, Rona. Are we judging the two people based on their survival, or on the kidnapping. Your hypothetical man would be considered resourceful and intelligent-----for surviving on the island for 16 years. If he then tried to kidnap a pregnant woman, and later her baby, then yes, Rona, he'd be considered a nut too. Please be cleear on whether you're judging the person by their survival or their act of kidnapping. Responding to the judgment of the woman for the latter by comparing it to judgment of a man for the former is not an accurate analogy.

She doesn't seem crazy to me. She possesses a quiet dignity in addition to her mysteriousness.
Luigi Novi: What's dignified about pummelling someone over the head and then kidnapping her baby?

I think some might be judging Rousseau from a somewhat biased perspective. - Rona

You mean like how you've suddenly judged us? Perhaps Rona hasn't met the kettle, yet.

And I resent the veiled insult. We are judging Rousseau on her actions.

Once again, Rona, you have taken a part of the facts and then based your entire arguyment around that. No one has said she isn't resourceful. No one said that it didn't take great courage, skill, and determination to survive on an island alone... or so we've been led to believe. But a woman who claims to hear voices no one else hears (from Charlie's perspective), who attacks a mother for her child (more than once), who then kidnaps that child in a convoluted attempt to reclaim a child she lost 16 years ago, and then setting deadly traps to elude pursuers trying to reclaim the baby she stole definitely qualifies her as a loon.

Are you really Michael Moore?

I was talking about the reactions of other characters to Rousseau (from the assessment of her mental condition to calling her a "nutcase" and "French chick"). I just pointed out that Sayid had a different, and more sensitive interaction with her. This is particularly notable, because he was formerly involving in torturing people. He appears to have evolved. Others are still trapped in their narrow attitudes.

Anonymous yep the seefood dieat is when i see my wifes cooking i wanna eat it. :-)

Now as to rasseau. She is a bloody nutjob and I didnt see anythign wrong with charlie getting all peeved about her knocking claire in the head, grabbing turnip head (now aaron), so that she could try and get her kid back from the great evil others who have been wanting the boy by giving him to them, and leading him and sayid on a merry run across the island with traps and tricks thrown in their way.

It is irrelevant to her sanity that she survived for 16 years on the island. That just shows her survival skills, intelligence, cunning and ability are all quite excellent.

And yeah Charlie is a bit narrower than sayid in his POV towards her because he wasn't captured and tortured by rosseau,and spent such quality time with her. He has been busy spending more quality time building a life and family with claire and aaron.

Upon re-reading your statement, I realize that it's open to interpretation and I thank you for clarifying. You were repeatedly talking about Charlie's comments and only Charlie's comments that when you said "some," I assumed (partly because of previous exchanges with you) that you meant those posters who agreed with Charlie, not any of the other characters.

But if that's all you meant, then I apologize, Rona.

However, Rousseau is still a nutjob. And are they biased? Of course! But not because of gender. They're biased because of her actions. She attacked Claire and stole her baby!!!!!!!!! This is not the work of a person whose elevator reaches the top floor! I don't find this view to be all that narrow. She needs psychiatric counseling at the very least... if not medication.

Why is she a nutjob? She heard "voices" of the others. It's now established that the others exist. At this point, it appears the others may have tried to drive her crazy. What's crazy is also often subjective. Some people (not me) describe religious people as being delusional. Is the religious black woman who lost her husband (from an early episode) delusional? Is Locke's mystical mumbo-jumbo crazy? Does Charlie have delusions from drug-use?

Rousseau may actually be the most sane one on the island!

So stealing Claire's baby to trade for hers is a sane act?

no its an evil act. She is a Sith!

Going back to the original comment:

Charlie sure did come off as mean-spirited when he described Rousseau as "pathetic" and a "nut-case". Geez, have a little more sympathy for a woman who lost her child.

Charlie was trying to comfort Claire, who had just lost her child. What's he supposed to do? Say, "Claire, you know, Rousseau is an intelligent and resourceful woman who has lost her child. We really should have some more sympathy for her."

No. He's going to point out that (from their point of view) Rousseau is (or seems to be) a nutcase, who stole Claire's baby, and he's going to move Heaven and Earth to get it back.

A very romantic and noble sentiment on charlie's part and showing that he is definately interested in being responsible for turnip head (ne aaron) and claire.

Why is she a nutjob?

Are you watching the same show?

Rousseau taking Claire's baby was an act of desperation, not mental illness. Charlie hallucinated and saw a moth. No one holds that against him.

Reread my post. What, exactly, is Charlie supposed to say to Claire?

She hasn't been acting exactly stable since we and the folks on the island first met her.

Yeah she has been throuhg quite a bit of mental and physical trauma but that still doesnt give her the right to kidnap a baby so she can trade him for a son who may or may not still be alive or recognizable.

And like ScottN said what exactly is charlie supposed to say to claire or rousseau? "Sorry about the deal not working out thanks for giving him back and almost killing or blinding me?" or maybe "Hey thanks for about bashing in the skull of a person i care about and taking her baby for your own selfish deeds."

Personally I agree with charlie, rosseau is a nutjob and a dangerous one at that. Sort of like an unstable dynamite stick.

Rona, as I recall, the moth Charlie saw was real. Locke showed it to him when it was in the chrysalis stage, and then he saw it at the end when it emerged. (Isn't that how it happened? Correct me if I'm wrong here.)

Rona, other people's mental stability is not the issue. Sure there's something not right with Locke, I'll admit that, hasn't been since at least the first time he encountered the "monster", but so what? Someone else being crazy or potentially crazy in no way makes Crazy French Chick sane.

And Ethan was at least as nutty as CFC. There, happy now?

It's just that, so far, I see her as a sympathetic character. Do others see her as some sort of villain?

She can be a sympathetic character... that doesn't mean that those on the island will see it as such. Especially when she has attacked one of them and stolen her child.

SPOILER...SPOILER...SPOILER


Also, don't forget that in Episode 9 (Solitary) she tortured and planned to kill Sayid, and we learned that she killed at least some of the members of her own expedition (possibly including her own husband).

Yes I do see her as if not a villan of the same level as "the others" I definately do not feel much sympathy for her.

While she lost a child and I can be sympathetic for that, the actions she has taken since our castaways landed on the island have not exactly endeared her to me (or no doubt the castaways).

Rona: Do others see her as some sort of villain?
Luigi Novi: Well, you had problems with Sayid when he tortured Sawyer, because you perceived him as having had no moral difficulties with it (which wasn't true), and Danielle herself has tortured Sayid. She also attacked Claire, knockign her over the head, bloodying up her head, and stealing her baby. What do you call that? A samaritan?

It's just that, so far, I see her as a sympathetic character. Do others see her as some sort of villain?

Not really, until she started whackin people on the head and stealin babies. That's not to say she can't still help the castaways and redeem herself, but for now Baby Snatcher does seem at least a little villainous, albeit not anywhere near to the level of Ethan and the Others.

Although... Didn't Claire have a flashback to her escape, where she remembered CrazyChick scratching Claire's arm? Hmmm... Maybe there is something more villainous about that crazy broad than I first thought. Though I suppose it could just as easily wind up being revealed that she was helping Claire escape or something, but that still doesn't excuse babynapping.

I don't really agree with the assessment of "Nutjob" because of her actions, since her actions have a certain inherent logic. Yes, that logic is evil, and likely, also wrong. But how exactly is it crazy, instead of simply ruthless and desperate, to try a trade of one child for her own?
Not that I want to justify her actions - but we've seen other kinds of selfish behaviour (like Sawyer letting Jack and Sayid and Boone believe he had Shannons asthma breather), and that was just as wrong. Is it a matter of scale - because Sawyer didn't kidnap a child, he "only" stole from the dead and horded the supplies - that he's a jerk and not a nutjob?

Or is this another language/definition thing - that "Nutjob" refers to her faulty and unlikely logic?

I mean, haven't we seen this kind of behaviour - not the kidnapping, but the desperate belief to try a bargain with bad guys, even though it should be clear that it won't be kept - on numerous shows and movies, but those characters aren't usually called "Nutjobs", but desperate?

The word indeed refers to insanity.

How did the crew of the raft plan to navigate? It would have to be either by stars, which would be really tricky if you don't really know what you're doing, or by compass. I was waiting for Sayid to give them his, but either he didn't or I just missed it. If he did, then I was hoping to see if it started working properly or not when they got out to sea.

About Charlie: (Though that could just be a mislead, and it turns out he's Catholic and wanted the statue for itself, just a thought, way too early to really say.)

Didn't the flashback about him indicate clearly he was catholic? But since Sayid broke one of the statues in front of his eyes to show him the heroin, I don't think Charlie took it because he wants to pray to the Virgin Mary.

I hope that whenever Jack gets back from playing cowboy and with dynamite, he chews Sayid out for that stupid first aid on Charlie. The wound bleed profusely, so it was clean. What would the gun powder accomplish? (When he sprinkled it, several grains ended up on Charlie's left eye. He's lucky if he keeps his sight intact.) Although doctors in the Middle Ages used fire to treat wounds because of mystic reasons (fire being cleansing and so on), the quickly caught on that this is a very bad treatment method - it aggrevates the injury. Burn wounds have a higher infection rate and take a longer time to heal then normal skin lacerations. Plus, the act of burning itself is another shock to the body, and loss of fluids. Apparently, this hasn't become general knowledge in Hollywood. Or is it because it looks so much more macho to have people bite their teeth and groan while wounds are burned out, instead of simply dressing them with a half-way clean bandage?

How did the crew of the raft plan to navigate? It would have to be either by stars, which would be really tricky if you don't really know what you're doing, or by compass....

They can navigate by the cross of the South, which works down there. Although not as reliable as Polaris, people have used if for quite some time.

But when Michael decides to show Walt how to steer, he opened a compass and explained that they were heading North-Northwest, to find the shipping lanes. (Then he closes the compass and tells Walt to head for the cloud. I expected Walt to ask how long the cloud will stay in that place, since clouds move with the wind....)

I couldn't remember whose compass it was, but if it was the compass Locke gave away earlier because it was off, I wonder if they know about it. Or was the compass off because of large amounts of metal underground (like the hatch?), and once out in the sea away from it, it works fine again?

Am I the only one who was surprised when shortly after the flashback showing how important the watch was if Jin ever made it back to civilisation, he gives it to Michael??? Okay, he can't explain because of language why the watch is so important, and he wants to show there's no longer animosity over it - but couldn't he show that another way?
And if Jin wants to indicate he'll be free of his father-in-law and darn the consequences - is that really smart? Why not keep the watch until they survive?

And why is Michael so stiff about this special present? Yes, he doesn't know about the exact signifance - but he knows the watch's very important, but he doesn't bow, smile a big smile, hug Jin, or show in some other way they're now friends.

When Sayid and Charlie find Rousseau with turniphead/Aaron, Sayid accuses her that there are no others, and she lit the fire herself. Considering that he's heard the whispering of the others, that they met Ethan (who was quite dangerous), that Scott has been killed - his words sound to me like putting his head into the sand so he doesn't see the bad guys. Just because Rousseau is distraught and uses unethical logic doesn't mean everything she says can be discounted as crazy. Crazy people aren't crazy 100% of the time (and normal people aren't sane a 100% of the time).

BTW, I missed the first part - why does Charlie call the baby "Turniphead"? Usually Sawyer is the one with the nicknames, who doesn't care if it hurts people's feelings, and if Charlie's trying to be nice and help Claire, that's not a comforting thing to say.
Or is it because of the old superstition that one shouldn't call babies "cute" because the gods/spirits will become jealous and take the baby away?

I can't find a way to explain the smoke near the monster in a natural way, which I find a bit disappointing. So far, while there's been evidence pointing to strange powers (Locke being able to walk, so many people surviving, polar bears, invisible monsters - several with different sounds, or one with different voices?) - there was always some ambiguity about: if we knew more than just a glimpse, there still could be a scientific explanation. But smoke doesn't move in that way unless on a film trick.

(Even Locke walking can be explained with sponanteous healing - we still don't know what the original injury or prognosis was).

Was this explained in the first part: Why do Jack and the others think blowing the hatch open with dynamite is a good strategy to hide from the "Others"?
First, they don't know what they find in there - maybe it's a biological contamination.
Secondly, from what they've unearthed so far, I don't believe the about 40 survivors would fit in there. (Yes, the structure continues underground - but they don't know that before!)
Thirdly, if they can blow up the hatch, (and there's dynamite left over lying around outside), then the "Others" can do so, too. (And blowing it open may damage the hatch so they can't close it properly again.)

Did they ever try knocking on it politely first?

About the numbers: I wonder if TPTB are just playing with us. We recognize the significance of Gate 23 because we've been told about it, but if it was Gate 22, we would say "that's just one off from 23/double 11" etc. You can always attach a significance to some number.

I think we should give Charlie some credit. We didn't see heroin in his bag; we saw the STATUE. At least two people on the island know that statue = heroin, and one of them knows that Charlie's trying to kick the habit, so it seems a little silly of him to smuggle heroin back to the camp IN A STATUE HANGING OUT OF HIS BAG. I'm not saying he wouldn't fall off the wagon again, as I understand heroin's a very tough habit to kick. I'm just saying that bringing smack back in an openly idenifiable container seems stupid.

But, remember, Charlie IS Catholic. And just a few episodes ago, the older black woman (whose name I cannot remember) suggested that Charlie return to his religious roots, and she even said a prayer with him. Maybe he took a statue b/c he wants to pray to it.

Of course, he could have just taken the drugs.

Her name is Rose.

Pray *to* a statue of Mary? I'm a Catholic, and that's BLASPHEMY!!! ;)

Don't some churches use an icon of the Virgin Mary in some rituals?

Charlie might have emptied the statue out but it might not be. We have not exactly seen much to indicate either way what he is doing with it. And if he was doing nothign bad with it why is he so defensive and all about it?

Wee-eeelll, according to Catholic dogma, the only one you can pray to (ie: worship) is God, which includes God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Technically speaking, the Virgin Mary is "adored," but must not be prayed to. For example, The Hail Mary is a not technically a prayer to Mary, but actually an appeal to her to pray to God on our behalf... Yeah, thin line I know, but to strong Catholics, an important one. Just for the record, I'm kind of a lapsed Catholic, so it doesn't matter too much to me, I was pretty much just writing for the sake of writing. ;)

Yes, technically, Mary only intervenes on the human's behalf to God. But praying in front of a statue might simply be more helpful than looking at the sky - gives you something to focus on, as if talking to a real person, instead of a distant higher being.

Though if he only wants to pray, Charlie should try to get the bottom off and remove the heroin - I'm sure it's very blasphemous to have drugs inside the Holy Virgin. And that would also remove the temptation for him - put all the stash from the airplane on a heap and set fire to it.

Maybe Charlie was in two minds about it, justifying taking the statue because he wants to pray to it, when it's really his addiction longing for the heroin? Do we see how he handles it in future ep.s? (Apparently, I have to wait till January for a rerun of season 1, and no idea when season 2 will start over here.)

Ok. I see. Its a thin technicallity where you are not praying "to" mary but through her to get her to intercede with her son or her son's father.

And yeah Charlie's motivation for this is really very interesting given that it hasn't been shown what exactly he wants to do with the statue and more importantly the heroin inside. But since he acts real defensively whenever anyone mentions it or messes with the statue I'm not sure its for a good cause he has the statue.

I know! It's really frustrating not knowing... I have friends that watch the show and are absolutely convinced that Charlie has fallen off the wagon. I admit it's a strong possibility, but I find myself saying "Wait! They haven't actually shown him using again... let's just wait and see!" Part of me thinks he has kicked the habit... I hope, anyway. Funny how fictional characters can become important to you, huh? ;)

Yeah just a bit. I remember when they took garibaldi on B5 actually becoming downright concerned he would be gone.

As for Charlie until they show one way or another its gonna be a fun ride. Thats probably what they are going for.

When Michael finds the pages of vocabulary that Sun wrote out for Jin, he asks Jin what words he can say, and one of them is 'aft.' The problem is that the word has an /f/ which Daniel Dae Kim pronounces correctly, but there is no way to render that sound in Hangeul, where it is usually represented by a /p/ sound. So there is no way he could have pronounced it corrently from the Hanguel. Even a lot of Koreans who've studied English for years cannot make it convincingly. Furthermore, Korean cannot end a word with a /t/ but has to add some epenthesis afterwards, which is not present in his execution. That Sun could pronounce these words correctly is certainly believable, but for her to write them in Korean script is not possible.

R: Speaking of the others they are 4 scruffy looking pirates on a motorized rowboat? Somehow I think appearances are quite deceiving.
How true your words have turned out!

Watching this again, I noticed the monster/security system has a rather mechanical roar. I don't think this monster is something naturally occurring.