Keeping in mind that PAL, it looks like we will find out in this ep what is in (one of) the hatch(es) that the Others control. And maybe a little of what happened to Claire when they had her.

Don't you just love the episodes where they reveal things for you? I know I do. And that's why I loved this episode. Packed full of revelations about Claire's absence, the Others' motives, and future developments.

It was great seeing Ethan again, even better as a seemingly more benevolent individual. It seems that their abductions may have to do with the sickness that we've heard so little about. It would be interesting to see where this goes.

And we have the possibility that Danielle's daughter Alex helped Claire escape. That's kind of cool. The mother and daughter unknowingly working together to save Claire's life. And the prospect that "Alex" (and "others"?) may not be onboard with the Others.

The Others had a pretty smooth operation in that hatch. They did looked pretty modern and clean to me. It seems that the front they put up may all be a ruse to confuse and scare the Lostaways.

Aw, Sawyer still has a soft spot for Freckles. Ain't that sweet? I half expected him not to give her a gun. Even he has to have his good moments, I suppose.

This episode was full of great performances, but one that really seemed to pack a punch in a short amount of time was Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje's. Man, Eko can be one scary dude. Who knew a goatee trim could be so intimidating.

And it seems that Henry is trying to pit Locke against Jack. Whether he's an Other or just someone trying to manipulate his captors for his own gain, it's looking less and less like he's a simple guy who crashed in the jungle and doesn't mean to harm anybody. It seems that he's already made it under Sayid's and Locke's collective skins.

Changed premise? Last ep, Locke was trying to convince Jack to keep "Henry" locked up, this week Jack was trying to convince Locke that "Henry" had to stay locked up.

The lack of Sayid this ep was distressing. What, he just gave up after Jack butted in?

And yeah, "Henry" definitely is not just some baloonist. I do think he is an other, based on his manipulation of Locke, but even if he's not an other, I would find it completely implausible for him to just turn out to be some random rich guy whose wife died.

After finding the new hatch (#3 of 6, collect them all!) the girls really thought it would be a good idea just to go exploring without going back to get more people, or at least let someone know where they were? They were DAMNED lucky that the hatch was deserted.

Aaron - cured or does the disease just go dormant for a while after the initial onset?

Zeke's beard is fake? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! [/darth vader]

From all the stuff in the hatch when Claire was first there, I've got to think the others still have some sort of contact with the outside world. That stuff in the nursery looked too new to have been there very long. I could be wrong, but that was my impression.

This is another episode that really stretches credibility. There's also appears to be what was a fully stocked hospital complex on the island too!

There was one kinda cool thing about last night's episode. When they were discussing about what to do with Henry, I heard Henry suggest "How about letting me go?" from behind me, which was where he would have been in the spatial plane on screen. A good (and startling) example of a 5.1 sound system!

I gotta agree with J about some of the issues raised.

Even with Kate and Rosseau armed goign into the hatch when no doubt banging and opening it would alert the folks within and unknown numbers of others within was not exactly a bright idea. Goin back for maybe oh Locke, jack, eko somebody to bolster their numbers might not be a bad idea at that moment.

What was the signifigance of the beard trim? I am drawing a blank on if or what there is goign on with that. But it was rather scary cool when he said I ask for forgiveness then pulls a knife out.

I'm not sure about the age of things. I couldnt tell on the show enough.But I've bought korea era milsurplus stuff that looked good as new before because it was stored well. So an active medical facility used by the others may not have to have outside support, or at least outside as in off island but maybe one of the other bases.

This episode confirms that The Others are part of the Dharma Project. Note the logo on the hatch.

Therefore J's:

From all the stuff in the hatch when Claire was first there, I've got to think the others still have some sort of contact with the outside world

becomes obvious, since Desmond was in the US a year or so before the events of "Man of Science, Man of Faith".

Time indication: They’ve been on the island for “two months,” as Jack tells Claire in the opening scene of Act 1. Also, this episode takes place two days after One of Them, as Henry tells Eko that he’s been in the cell that long in the second scene of Act 5.

I believe this is the second episode, after The Other 48 Days, that doesn’t feature a pre-Oceanic 815 flashback.

Libby tells Claire that she may not have amnesia, but that her memories of those two weeks may be blocked. But that is amnesia. What does Libby think amnesia is? There are many types of amnesia, and blocked memories are one form of it.

Why does Claire relate to Ethan as a friend during the flashbacks? Why does she not remember being kidnapped by him, or that someone tried to hurt her baby, or that she’s one of a bunch of castaways on an island? She tells Ethan that she’s on her way to Los Angeles to give her baby to an adoptive couple. What could they do to her to give such a precise type of amnesia? Similarly, how could she forget the two weeks she was in the Dharma hatch?

Thin walls? Thin walls? Um, nope, sorry, I don’t buy it. That room has a lock on it because it’s used to store guns. There’s no way in hell that the walls could be thin enough for someone to just casually listen to a conversation about Hemmingway and Dostoyevsky between two people several feet away from it. Either this is a nit by the creators, or Henry crouched down by the crack at the bottom of the door and listened with his ear, and was just lying. I’m assuming, given how good the creators on this show are, that it’s the latter.

It’s funny how I beginning to lose respect for now three different characters. First Charlie, for his attack on Sun, then Sayid for his unjustified torture of Henry, and now possibly Locke, who it seems may have thrown a tantrum because of jealousy of Jack being the leader, which would be very petty of him, given how valuable he’s proven himself to the group. When watching the preview for next week, I wondered if the tantrum was not because of this, but simply because he’s frustrated over Henry’s being in the cell/gun room, but I wonder if I’m just grasping at straws.

JoshM: It seems that he's already made it under Sayid's and Locke's collective skins.
Luigi Novi: Locke, maybe, but Sayid? Henry didn’t do anything to Sayid.

JoshM: And yeah, "Henry" definitely is not just some baloonist. I do think he is an other, based on his manipulation of Locke, but even if he's not an other, I would find it completely implausible for him to just turn out to be some random rich guy whose wife died.
Luigi Novi: Any more than the 40-something “random” Lostaways? Yeah, he may be an Other, but his manipulation of Locke could be his attempt to simply get out of there. He’d likely do the same thing if he was an innocent guy. Just because he’s smart enough to make an attempt to pit Locke and Jack against one another doesn’t mean he can’t be an innocent smart guy. If he’s rich, he could be an intelligent businessman.

JoshM: Aaron - cured or does the disease just go dormant for a while after the initial onset?
Luigi Novi: Or, he didn’t have any disease, as Jack speculated.

Luigi Novi: Why does Claire relate to Ethan as a friend during the flashbacks?
Well, she was drugged the whole time. So drugged that she couldn't figure out that the girl helping her escape was trying to take her from something that was very bad for her.

JoshM: It seems that he's already made it under Sayid's and Locke's collective skins.
Luigi Novi: Locke, maybe, but Sayid? Henry didn’t do anything to Sayid.
Everyone keeps talking about the look Henry gives Sayid when Jack's pulling Sayid off of him in the last episode. Whether it's Henry or just Sayid doing it to himself, he was pretty bothered by the situation. Sayid starts wailing on him for some reason, and I think whether or not Henry prodded him in that direction is debatable.

JoshM: And yeah, "Henry" definitely is not just some baloonist. I do think he is an other, based on his manipulation of Locke, but even if he's not an other, I would find it completely implausible for him to just turn out to be some random rich guy whose wife died.
Luigi Novi: Any more than the 40-something “random” Lostaways? Yeah, he may be an Other, but his manipulation of Locke could be his attempt to simply get out of there. He’d likely do the same thing if he was an innocent guy. Just because he’s smart enough to make an attempt to pit Locke and Jack against one another doesn’t mean he can’t be an innocent smart guy. If he’s rich, he could be an intelligent businessman.

JoshM: Aaron - cured or does the disease just go dormant for a while after the initial onset?
Luigi Novi: Or, he didn’t have any disease, as Jack speculated.

Neither of those were me, Luigi. They're both J's comments.

Josh: Well, she was drugged the whole time. So drugged that she couldn't figure out that the girl helping her escape was trying to take her from something that was very bad for her.
Luigi Novi: What does this have to do with my question? What does being drugged have to do with knowing that Rousseau was her friend? You're saying she would've known this if she hadn't been drugged? Precisely what drugged would've could've wiped out her memory of the past two weeks? And how could the Others have known that it would've been that precise in its effects, and would not have harmed the baby?

Sorry about the misattributed quotes, Josh.

Desmond was a late arrival on the island as well. Remember he was on a yacht race or something and crashed.

Well she did appear to be so stoned that she didnt know which way was what or recognize that she wasnt on the island. Maybe drugs with hypnosis and some other mumbo jumbo caused it. I do know that some drugs (PCP, LSD, etc..) can cause some severe disorientation and a person have trouble remembering what went on. (True story friend of mine got some laced chronic and lost 2 full days. From our perspective he was perfectly normal (or at least what passes for nominal for him) for that period.)

I wasn't talking about Rousseau, I was talking about "Alex". The only question I was answering is why would she trust Ethan? Why would she trust Ethan over the word of someone telling her that her life is in danger.

The rest of your questions, how a drug would work so precisely, I have no idea. I'm not trying to refute that.

Luigi, regarding Henry hearing things, the gap they've shown at the bottom of the vault door looked to me to be plenty for Henry to be hearing what's going on outside, regardless of the wall or door thickness, even without his squatting right next to it.

It was just there to keep people away from guns & stuff, not as a soundproof room or anything. A wall or door might be plenty good at keeping people out yet still let sound through.

Or, he didn’t have any disease, as Jack speculated.

Well, there was clearly something wrong with him. Maybe disease isn't the exact right term for every illness, but all I meant was it's possible either he's recooperated from what was ailing him, disease or not, or it's merely gone dormant for a time.

Any more than the 40-something “random” Lostaways? Yeah, he may be an Other, but his manipulation of Locke could be his attempt to simply get out of there. He’d likely do the same thing if he was an innocent guy. Just because he’s smart enough to make an attempt to pit Locke and Jack against one another doesn’t mean he can’t be an innocent smart guy. If he’s rich, he could be an intelligent businessman.

Maybe, but he sure seems to remind me of Ethan and Goodwin on some level. Not sure I can really put it into words.

What does being drugged have to do with knowing that Rousseau was her friend?

I think being drugged had more to do with her not knowing the Others were not her friends than anything.

And how could the Others have known that it would've been that precise in its effects,

I don't know that it had to be very precise, just keep her confused enough that if they acted friendly, she'd take it for given that they were good people helping her.

and would not have harmed the baby?

Apparently they have much expertise or training or whatever at this stuff. They aren't just joe-random stabbing preggo chicks in the belly. They're likely scientists and they have some sort of plan.

Desmond was a late arrival on the island as well. Remember he was on a yacht race or something and crashed.

Where was this established? If he was a castaway, just like our heroes, then why was he in the hatch, working the computer? I think he was Dharma. Speaking of which, do you think he's got off the island?

Oh, and SPOILER:

So the "Deliverance" bit is an act....

J: Luigi, regarding Henry hearing things, the gap they've shown at the bottom of the vault door looked to me to be plenty for Henry to be hearing what's going on outside, regardless of the wall or door thickness, even without his squatting right next to it.
Luigi Novi: Right, but he didn't say that he used the door gap. He said that the walls were thin, which is why it seemed like a lie. Maybe I'm wrong here. True, they heard Sayid through the door when he was beating Henry, but then, Sayid was screaming, and Jack and Locke weren't during their conversation.

ScottN: Where was (the fact that Desmond was a late arrival to the island) established? If he was a castaway, just like our heroes, then why was he in the hatch, working the computer? I think he was Dharma. Speaking of which, do you think he's got off the island?

Dan Gunther: This was established the island portions in the first three episodes of season two, namely "Man of Science, Man of Faith," "Adrift," and "Orientation." Also, some of Desmond's backstory in shown in the pre-island flashbacks in the Jack-centric episode "Man of Science, Man of Faith."

Dan: I meant the "yacht race or something and crashed" part.

Desmond told Jack about how he got to the island. He said he was sailing a yacht (I thought it was in a race or might have been around the world come to think of it) and got lost and crashed on the island.

It was not done in a flashback or anything just dialoge between the two characters.

That's odd. How did he get into the hatch, then?

I suspect Hanso/Dharma staff are supposed to lie to any "interlopers" they meet.

And speaking of which, where the heck is Desmond, anyways? Is he still on the island, did he get off, or is he with The Others?

He stopped to use the phone to call for a tow?

Desmond is another other on the island as he is not an other but another like Rosseau.

ScottN: That's odd. How did he get into the hatch, then?

According to Desmond, shortly after he crashed, the guy who was in the hatch at the time, Kelvin, came running out of the jungle. He told Desmond to come with him, took him to the hatch, and thus Desmond's time in the hatch began.

That's right -- they've been setting up so many new questions that we're forgetting the old ones.

the code and computer could be a very carefully set up plan to keep the lostaways occupied whilst "the others" or Dharma/Hanso Staff observe them remotely.

remember that they found the cine reel and watched it themselves and convinced themselves that the computer code must be entered correctly and precisely.

Thanks, Josh.

Yeah. Basically Desmond got recruited into it by this guy running out of the jungle and convincing him to enter the code or bad thigns will happen.

Interesting that Kel knew about desmond landing as I am sure a yacht/boat crashing is a lot less spectacular than a jet crashing. Which implies that dharma or whomever has some way of observing the area around the isalnd.

Which makes the remote observation/pavlovian code entering experiment thing an interesting theory.

ScottN: Dan: I meant the "yacht race or something and crashed" part.

Dan Gunther: So did I.

LUIGI: Right, but he didn't say that he used the door gap. He said that the walls were thin, which is why it seemed like a lie.

Or he just (perhaps wrongly) assumes that because he can hear it's because of thin walls.

Also, if you'll recall, there's a large ventillation shaft going into the room as well. Those carry sound very well in my experience. Granted, my experience is with small ones in a house, not large TV-style ones you can fit in, but I really don't find it a stretch that it would help carry sound.

But John said that he'd blocked up the ventilation shaft when Jack suggested that they use it to escape after Michael locked them in the gun locker in The Hunting Party.

Yeah, but it's not like he filled it in with concrete or anything.

If you watch closely, you can see that he just attached some planks of some sort over the openings, to keep people from being able to fit in them. They aren't completely covered, not even close, so sound, probably not hindered in any way.

Sorry for not mentioning that in my last post.

Not only do the planes on the mobile in the nursery bear the Oceanic logo, and is the same one which Claire sees in her dream in Raised by Another, but the song that the mobile plays is "Catch a Falling Star" by Perry Como, the same song that Claire asked the couple who were going to adopt her baby to sing to him as a lullaby.

I find it a bit of a stretch that Rousseau's child tried to help Claire escape. If she had been raised by the Others from childbirth wouldn't she have their value-system? I'm wondering if her letting Claire go was some ruse of the Others (getting paranoid now)

I agree with Luigi's frustration with Locke, it's so obvious that Henry was manipulating him regarding Jack that someone like Locke would immediately know it.

I also agree that the drugs caused Claire's memory loss and allowed them to manipulate her into believing that they were friendly. As to the question as to how they would know it would cause precisely that effect on her memory (to lose two weeks' worth), they didn't, that's probably why they abandoned this hatch.

Where is the new hatch located, presumably it's in the Lostaways' section of the island?

Lot of kids rebel against those who raise them. If Alex learned the truth from one of the Others about where she came from, then this would make sense.

It is doubtful that she would learn the "truth" (Whatever that is in the sense of this show) because the others appear to be a good deal better at manipulation and control than the average parent.

The new hatch is probably 180 degrees around the island from the original crew. Thereby dividing the island into the good half and the evil half (whichever which is I'll leave it to you to decide.) in sort of a yin yang thing.