The Savage Curtain

Nitcentral's Bulletin Brash Reflections: ClassicTrek: Season Three: The Savage Curtain

By Hans Thielman on Tuesday, December 22, 1998 - 10:25 am:

It was rude and unnecessarily provocative for security to be aiming their phasers at the Abraham Lincoln looking lifeform.

The original Enterprise doesn't have a musical band. Fortunately, the Enterprise E under Picard does.

In my view, the Enterprise should have played "Hail to the Chief" for Lincoln.

Query: Does Starfleet have the equivalent of a 21 gun salute?

While I believe Abraham Lincoln was a good man and a great U.S President, there are some who do not share that view. Lincoln is condemned by some for his prosecution of the war known as the American Civil War (also known as the War Between the States). People in the southern states believed Lincoln was waging a war of northern aggression. Lincoln has also been criticized for suspending the writ of habeas corpus.

How did the rock creature know enough about good and evil to assign Kirk and Spock to the side of good?


By Mike Konczewski on Tuesday, December 22, 1998 - 10:57 am:

Why was Genghis Khan on the evil side? I would think a person's judgement of his evil would depend on whether you were from the West or the East. Plus he was a bit tall for a Mongol.

This episode reminds me a bit of the Red Dwarf episode "Meltdown." That show took place on a planet of intelligent wax dummies. The forces of good were engaged in a battle with the forces of evil. The forces of evil totally overwhelmed the good (admittedly thanks to the poor management of Rimmer, but they were losing before he showed up).

As Doctor McCoy once said, "Evil can triumph over good unless good is very, very careful."


By ScottN on Tuesday, December 22, 1998 - 2:13 pm:

Mike, I remember the quote, but don't remember the episode. Which episode was it?


By D.K. Henderson on Thursday, December 24, 1998 - 5:50 am:

It was the episode "The Omega Glory" where the Yangs had Kirk and Tracey duking it out.

I wonder where the Federation got it's legends of intelligent life on this planet. If other ships had gone through what Kirk and Co. did, and then left, they surely would not be legends, but facts.

These guys sure can dress fast. They all whipped into dress uniform and made it down to the transporter room in less than ten minutes.

When did earrings become forbidden while in uniform? Riker chewed out Ro for wearing a Bajoran earring, yet Uhura is wearing very ostentatious earrings.

I find it odd that a Vulcan would recognize "charm."

During the first fight, Spock tosses Zora aside (finally), and then just stands there, without looking around to see if anyone else needs help.

Body heat notwithstanding, it seems rather stupid to throw a punch at a rock.

Just what did the Good Four do during the first two hours of their four hour limit?

When "Surak" was yelling for help, Spock said, "A Vulcan would not cry out so." Kirk seemed to take that to mean that, well, Surak was not a Vulcan, therefore they didn't need to worry much about him. Kirk said that it didn't matter what he was, they ought to help him. Nice sentiments, but didn't it occur to anyone that maybe it wasn't Surak yelling at all? His cries seemed very flat.

My Dad was watching this one with me, and he noted that the transporter beamed Kirk and Spock up nice and clean. Unless they went to change first, but I wouldn't think that Kirk would wait to clean up before checking on his ship.

I wonder if Kirk will pass along a warning to avoid this planet in the future?


By ScottN on Thursday, December 24, 1998 - 10:00 am:

In the first fight, Spock is wrestling with Zora, and has his arm around her neck. Why doesn't he just pinch her and go to the next person?


By Jeff on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 2:53 pm:

Bindu-Jitsu message:

I'm just glad neither Nixon nor Clinton made it as Kirk's favorite hero.


By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 8:08 pm:

Good point, Jeff!


By Todd Pence on Thursday, January 28, 1999 - 4:06 pm:

Actually, many years ago when I was still in high school, I once wrote a parody of this episode in which the Enterprise does meet the image of Richard Nixon. A highlight of this piece was when Nixon introduces himself after appearing "I am Richard Nixon." Spock replies "Hogwash" (or an expletive meaning same). Nixon answers "I have been described in many ways, Mr. Spock, but most often with that word." Later, there is a show-down between good and evil with Richard Dawson hosting an All-Star Family Feud.


By Hans Thielman on Friday, January 29, 1999 - 11:55 am:

In "Undiscovered Country," Spock said, "Only Nixon could go to China."


By Todd Pence on Wednesday, February 24, 1999 - 5:50 am:

Taped music? Hasn't the Enterprise switched to CDs yet?


By Mike Konczewski on Wednesday, February 24, 1999 - 6:42 am:

Hans, you might be interested to know that there is an opera called "Nixon in China." Regardless of our opinions of former President Nixon, his meeting with Mao was a significant event in 20th century history.


By BrianB on Wednesday, April 07, 1999 - 3:29 am:

You would think there were CDs. Nixon's last edict was to ban tapes (?) :)


By Todd Pence on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 5:14 pm:

I just saw a definite edit. I take it the Sci-Fi Channel's no longer showing the episodes uncut. Oh, well.


By ScottN on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 9:53 am:

Todd, are you talking about the scene towards the end where Kirk and Spock are talking, and Lincoln is either sped up or in slow motion (can't remember which)?


By Todd Pence on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 2:05 pm:

No, at the beginning where Lincoln beams in I think there were some lines of dialogue cut (can't remember exactly which ones).


By D.K. Henderson on Saturday, May 01, 1999 - 5:19 am:

I had also noticed that the Sci Fi channel was only running the episodes for an hour, rather than an hour an a half. Guess their ratings dropped off after the first run-through. It's a shame that they didn't have Shatner and Nimoy alternate hosting the programs during the first run-through. I haven't watched any since they went to the hour format--did Nimoy get in his comments, or did they cut those out, too?


By Chris Ashley on Saturday, May 01, 1999 - 8:42 pm:

One of Kirk's better lines ever was not, unfortunately, repeated in this one. To wit: he beats up Genghis Khan, but never once yells "KHAAAAAAN! KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!" ;-)

And yes, it is •••••• beyond belief to try to kill a rock with a stick. Not to mention actually taking General Whatsisface seriously for a moment. Or a Lincoln who looks nothing at all like Lincoln. (But this is Kirk we're talking about, so IMHO brains are extra.)


By Beater of Dead Horses on Tuesday, February 01, 2000 - 8:41 am:

I keep thinking back to how Roddenberry wanted to be oh-so-daring and controversial. So Lincoln refers to Uhura as a Negress and not a... that other word. I suppose that would have been *too* shocking, but the people who objected to Kirk kissing Uhura might not have objected to that word.
But seriously, what would have made Lincoln apologize for using that particular word? "Negress" is an antique word, I don't know of anybody using it lately, but it's not offensive is it?
And why would a duplicate Lincoln use that word in the first place if he thinks he wasn't supposed to use it?

About the faux Surak yelling. It isn't plausible that Vulcans wouldn't yell if the situation called for it. If somebody's way far away and doesn't have a communicator, or if they're at a really loud party...


By John A. Lang on Friday, December 29, 2000 - 1:15 am:

I'm surprised that the Excaliban didn't choose Hitler to be on the evil side instead of Col. Green....it might have been a more interesting episode if the creators decided to do just that.


By Will Spencer on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 2:52 pm:

Kirk kicks the sh*t out of Hitler? I like it! I like it!


By Nove on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 11:50 pm:

It's possible that the Excalbians really weren't trying to learn anything, but to teach Kirk and Spock something. About pacifism, using the same methods as your enemies, the morality of war, the relativity of the concepts of good and evil, or some such.


By John A. Lang on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 4:10 am:

RUMINATION: This is the last time we get to see a Klingon until STTMP.


By John A. Lang on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 8:43 pm:

RUMINATION II: This is the last time we'll see Kahless until "Rightful Heir" STTNG in the SIXTH SEASON! (Whoa, that's a long time!)


By John A. Lang on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 1:48 pm:

Funny thought...It's a good thing Oliver Stone didn't hear about this adventure of Kirk's...he'd make a movie on it..."Who killed Abe Lincoln?"
The questions aroused from it would be:
Did John W. Booth act alone? Or was it Colonel Green? Could it have been Kahless the Unforgettable? Or was it Genghis Khan? Or was it Zora?"

The movie would also ask:
"Which one was standing on the grassy knoll that killed Lincoln?" :)


By ScottN on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 8:10 pm:

When Surak is convincing Kirk to let him try to sue for peace, there are several close ups of his face. In these shots, Surak's ears look very fake - they look shiny, oversized, and do not match the rest of his coloring. Oddly, in profile shots from a distance, they don't look too bad.


By John A. Lang on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 6:48 am:

Is "Negress" even a word? I've never heard it before until now.

Spell Check doesn't think so.


By kerriem. on Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 7:28 am:

Yep, John A., 'Negress' is the feminine of 'Negro', which was the polite way of referring to African-Americans in Lincolin's time. (Do I have to list the impolite ways...?)


By John A. Lang on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 7:40 pm:

This is Uhura's last episode...and we'll miss her until the movies roll around.

This episode marks the first and last time we see the boatswain whistle being blown by a human...we won't see that again until STII.

Once again, Spock fights like a human...no Vulcan nerve pinches.

This episode also marks the last episode featuring the dress uniforms and Scotty's kilt.


By John A. Lang on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 8:05 pm:

Kirk is not much of a diplomat is he?
The creature only wishes to study human behavior and what happens?...Kirk walks up the the creature and punches it. So much for "to seek out new life and new civilizations!"

I saw the rip in Kirk's pants...his bare leg can be seen too! (not just his underwear)


By John A. Lang on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 8:49 pm:

Hurmph...even Surak ain't as "Vulcan" as he claims to be... he gets into the fight and NOT ONCE does he employ the Vulcan Nerve Pinch.


By Will on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 10:13 am:

Maybe if someone pissed him off he could have used the ancient method of Tal-Shaya that killed Ambassador Gav.


By Bill on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 12:53 am:

In the beginning of the episode, Lincoln asked Kirk if he stills measures times in minutes. Kirk replied, "No, but we can convert to it." In countless other episodes, time is measured in minutes and seconds, especially during the final countdowns.


By John A. Lang on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 3:16 am:

Neither Genghis Khan nor Zora have any lines in this episode.


By Todd Pence on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 8:20 pm:

Kirk would also meet his hero Abraham Lincoln in the Gold Key comic, issue #9, "The Legacy Of Lazarus". Actually, this was a better story than "The Savage Curtain".


By Rene on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 7:17 pm:

About the minute conversion nit, I think Kirk was trying to show off infront of Lincoln and so was lying :)


By John A. Lang on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 7:49 pm:

INTERESTING NOTE: Here is something that I almost overlooked. You know how the shows end most of the time...the ship arcing out of an orbit and onto the stars?...Well this time the ship is arcing OVER the planet then onto the stars!


By Will on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 10:27 am:

I noticed that before, and liked it because it was something different. So often the original Enterprise orbited from a northern hemisphere position, something that wasn't changed until TNG and the Enterprise-D orbiting planets from different angles.


By ScottN on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 10:45 am:

It remove the nit on the viewscreen planetary orientation (for the warp out). However, the viewscreen nit still remains for most everything else.

To wit, the ship is shown orbiting with the planet to its port side. Yet the main viewscreen shows the planet in the bottom half of the screen.


By glenn of nas on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 9:33 am:

I was always perplexed by Kirks comment about converting time for the President. As suggested above, they always used hours, minutes and seconds. So as I perused my DVDs, I made special note of when anyone or thing made mention of hours, minutes or seconds. I came up with approximately 519 references in the 79 episodes. About 6.5 per show? In fact there were only 2 episodes that did not refer to time at all. Any guesses? One of them is pretty ironic.


By Benn on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 9:48 am:

Is one of them "The City On the Edge of Forever"?


By LUIGI NOVI on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:54 am:

Wink of an Eye?


By glenn of nas on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 7:04 am:

one is wink of an eye


By glenn of nas on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 3:44 pm:

a clue to the other......pig


By John A. Lang on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 3:48 pm:

"Whom Gods Destroy"?


By LUIGI NOVI on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 7:38 pm:

Journey to Babel?


By John A. Lang on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 7:42 am:

"Patterns of Force"?


By glenn of nas on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 6:06 pm:

someone was called a pig


By Benn on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 6:11 pm:

"Elaan of Troyius"?


By ScottN on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 7:28 pm:

That would be Patterns of Force, you Zaon Pig!


By glenn of nas on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 5:37 pm:

Benn, got it right, Troyan pig.


By Todd Pence on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 6:01 pm:

But "Patterns of Force" is correct as well - Kirk uses the term when posing as an Ekosian officer.


By Benn on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 6:15 pm:

I thought I remembered Elaan using that epitath.


By glenn of nas on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 4:14 pm:

The question was which episodes did they not refer to hours, minutes and seconds. Wink of an Eye was the ironic one. And the clue, someone being called a pig, was Elaan of Troyius which was the other episode. After stabbing Petri, Elaan comes out of her room and says "Kryton, remove that troyian pig".


By John A. Lang on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 1:41 pm:

The footage of Genghis Khan throwing the rock for the second time is no more than a repeat showing of the first time he threw the rock.


By John A. Lang on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 12:19 pm:

NANJAO: Bert LaRue is credited for doing the voice of Yarnek. This is Bert's last appearance on "Star Trek"


By glenn of nas on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 4:32 pm:

Is it Bert or Bart? And I wonder what it is short for?


By Anonymous on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 4:53 pm:

Bartell LaRue


By glenn of nas on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 7:24 pm:

Bartell and James


By Bartell and James on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 3:47 am:

Thank you for your support.


By Nove Rockhoomer on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 3:47 pm:

Scotty complains about the implausibility of Pres. Lincoln coming aboard, and when McCoy walks into the transporter room, Scotty says, "I might have expected sanity from the ship's surgeon, at least!" I assume he's referring to the fact that McCoy is wearing his dress uniform, ready to greet the President. But...Scotty's wearing one too.

The Excalbians don't bother to explain to Kirk and Spock who Genghis Khan is. Why? Because the TV audience has already heard of him.

Kirk wants to treat Lincoln exactly as if he were the real thing. But how come he makes an exception in allowing the guards to point their phasers at him?

Zora and Genghis Khan "run off" at the end, and the Excalbian declares Kirk and Spock victorious. Couldn't they come back and attack? It's still two against two. Of course, they do have a handicap in coming up with a plan of attack: they don't seem to have acquired the power of speech.

On the planet, Kirk is understandably angry at the Excalbian for forcing them to go through this charade. But at the end of the episode, he says he now understands what Earth went through before achieving peace and concludes, "There's so much of their work do be done in the galaxy, Spock." As if what they did was OK because it taught him something. Does that mean he doesn't mind if they do the same to others? What did the Excalbians do that was so great? Kirk faces the same alternatives on a larger scale all the time.

Also, on the planet, the alien says that good and evil use the same methods and achieve the same results. Kirk replies, "You established the methods and the goals!" The Excalbian answers, "For you to use as you chose." That sounds good, but he didn't leave Kirk a lot of options. It was either fight or lose the ship and crew. What else could Kirk have done that would not have disappointed the Excalbian?


By Todd Pence on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 11:17 am:

Face it. The Excalbians are just dumb as rocks.


By Mother Horta on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 11:49 am:

Hey! Resent that I !


By Nove Rockhoomer on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 2:21 pm:

There was some discussion earlier of Surak yelling. Just wanted to clarify one thing. Obviously, a Vulcan would yell if he simply needed to communicate with someone far away. But...he didn't just yell "Help me, Spock," but he also screamed as if in pain. That is probably what Spock was referring to when he said "A Vulcan would not cry out so."


By Will on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 10:15 am:

I suppose if a Vulcan hits his thumb with a hammer he'd probably mumble a curse.
On the other hand, Spock let out quite a wail when he mind-melded with V'Ger, didn't he?


By Will on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 10:55 am:

Kirk is a pretty knowledgeable guy, and for him to not know who Surak, the greatest Vulcan, the father of what all Vulcan became, is inexcuseable. I realize that it's meant as a way for Nimoy to explain to us who Surak is, but scene should have been something like,
Spock; "Surak!"
Kirk; "Surak? Are you sure?"
Spock; "Positive, Captain. The greatest Vulcan who ever lived; the father of all we became."
There was no reason to make Kirk look uneducated, especially with such a famous Vulcan.
As back-up, I'd say alot of people know famous figures from other countries, ie. Napolean, Ceasar, King Arthur, etc.
That scan from the Excalbians somehow didn't include the place of origin of Colonel Green. Now, if this had been because telepathically the aliens read Kirk's mind, and he didn't know where Green was from, that would make sense, but the Enterprise loses power, indicating mainly a computer scan, while the telepathic scan would have revealed Kirk's admiration for Lincoln. But if the computer doesn't even know where Green is from, how'd that happen? Insufficient data, I suppose.
And speaking of Green, his jumpsuit reminds me of the one Khan was wearing when he fought Kirk in engineering. Maybe Colonel Green idolized Khan, and even dressed like him.
I realize that the footage of Sulu looking behind his back at the camera and then back at the main screen was filmed 2 years previously and used over and over, but the look on his face as he turns around as Lincoln says, "I am Abraham Lincoln." is perfect. You can almost hear Sulu thinking, "Say WHAT?!"


By Nove Rockhoomer on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 12:05 pm:

Will, I think what Kirk meant when he asked Col. Green, "Where do you come from?" was "Where were you right before you appeared on this planet?" Since Col. Green shouldn't be alive in the first place, he had no answer. Of course, it was rather weak to say, "Well, wherever it was, I want to get back there." If he doesn't remember where he was, how does he know?


By Will on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 10:22 am:

True, but as a nitpicker I should point out that the line should have been; 'Where DID you come from?' or 'Where were you prior to arriving here?', rather than 'Where DO you come from?' If sombody asked me 'Where do you come from?' I'd say the place of my birth, not where I was previously before I walked into the room.


By Nove Rockhoomer on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 10:54 am:

Just one more point: the line before this is Col. Green saying, "You were tricked into coming here, weren't you? So were we all." That adds a little context to Kirk's question (coming here from where?). The wording of his question is misleading, though, I agree.


By Adam Bomb on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 3:05 am:

Philip Pine (Col. Green) played the Vice President in the second episode of the original Outer Limits entitled "The Hundred Days Of The Dragon." The plot concerned Far Eastern agents altering their faces and fingerprints, and assuming the identities of Americans in high places (including the President.)
The pointed sideburns on men must have gone in and out of style. Col. Green had them; they're gone by the time of Capt. Archer, then they're back in by the Kirk era.
In Kirk and Green's last fight, although Shatner is doing his own stunts, Philip Pine is most definitely not.


By Joey Greco on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 8:59 am:

Is Colonel Green wearing one of the "Space Seed" uniforms? Looks like the one Khan wore.


By Sir Rhosis on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 4:58 pm:

^^Many Trek characters seemingly caught a futuristic "blue-light" special on jumpsuits--Green, Khan, Cochrane, the scientists in "The Empath," and many others.

Sir Rhosis


By Thande on Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 9:58 am:

Perhaps Green was in the Eugenics Wars, too.


By John A. Lang on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 4:00 pm:

Was wasn't "Battle Hymn of the Republic" or "Hail to the Chief" played when Lincoln beamed aboard?


By John A. Lang on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 6:59 pm:

The Excaliban creature makes no sense.

He's made of rock...he's an organic life form & he's got LIGHTS going on & off on the top of his head.

Sounds more android-ish to me.


By Butch Brookshier on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 7:25 pm:

Perhaps they're a charming fashion accent among his people. :)


By Adam Bomb on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 9:12 am:

In his commentary on the third season DVD set, Mike and Denise Okuda note the fact that a supposedly uninhabited area has visible footprints. Was the third season budget that low that TPTB couldn't afford a stagehand with a rake or a broom to give the area a once-over before filming?


By Adam Bomb on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 9:28 am:

In my view, the Enterprise should have played "Hail to the Chief" for Lincoln.
Were there copyright isues involved, or is "Hail To The Chief" in public domain? Maybe that's why it wasn't used. "Happy Birthday To You" is copyrighted, and the composers get royalties to this day.


By Adam Bomb on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 1:55 pm:

Gene Roddenberry originally wanted Mark Lenard to play Lincoln, but he was not available.


By Alan Hamilton on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 11:22 pm:

Hail to the Chief dates to the early 19th century, so it's not copyrighted. Its first use as a Presidential theme dates to Polk, but it wasn't made official until Eisenhower.

Re: the blinking lights. Hollywood hates something that talks without a "mouth". Hence the light on the Lost in Space robot, the wavy mouth lines on Bender in Futurama, etc. The main notable exceptions are HAL and C3PO.


By Alan Hamilton on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 11:23 pm:

And speaking of mouths (heh), Zora and Ghengis Kahn didn't get much use out of theirs. Another effect of the legendary tight budget. Actors with no lines get paid less.


By John A. Lang on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 8:38 pm:

The "Earth-like" environment on Excaliba's surface looks suspiciously like Ardona's planet surface from "The Cloud Minders"


By John A. Lang on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 8:55 pm:

One of the closeups of Kirk is flipped.


By Mr Crusher on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 4:56 pm:

The same thing happened near the end of "The Way To Eden".


By Todd Pence on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 2:08 pm:

Is there any significance to the title of this episode at all? The phrase "savage curtain" is never mentioned in any dialogue, and it doesn't appear to be a quote from any known work of literature.


By Chris Todaro on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 7:55 pm:

Perhaps that Kirk and Spock were forced to put on a savage "play" for the rock creatures.


By Adam Bomb on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 9:17 am:

Many Trek characters seemingly caught a futuristic "blue-light" special on jumpsuits...

Spock also wore a jumpsuit in "This Side Of Paradise" when he was under the influence of the spores. Why he saw it necessary to change, I don't know; the Starfleet uniforms look more comfortable. When Bones had to dress Spock's brainless body in "Spock's Brain," he dug up that same jumpsuit.


By John A. Lang on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 10:43 am:

Why does the planet Excaliba vanish from the viewscreen when Lincoln appears on the viewscreen?


By sowdoqbk on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 10:52 am:

Yarnek says that Col. Green "led a genecidal war early in the 21st Century on Earth."

Funny, I thought George W. Bush was the one who did that(hey, someone had to say that so it might as well be me)


By ScottN on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 2:53 pm:

Take it to PM. Now.


By Adam Bomb on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 7:32 am:

When Scotty said "Louis of France," he could have been a bit more specific. IMHO, he could have meant King Louis XVI, husband of Marie Antoinette.


By Adam Bomb on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 7:43 am:

Cut scene from this episode.


By John A. Lang (Johnalang) on Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 6:07 pm:

In Lee Bergere's obit, he said, "For decades I received many letters from "Trekkies" regarding my role as LIncoln in "The Savage Curtain" It was incredible." (or something like that)

How nice!


By Adam Bomb on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 7:36 am:

Here's an obit for Mr. Bergere. I had no idea that he had passed away (1/31/07.) God bless you, Mr. Bergere.


By steve McKinnon (Steve) on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 10:32 am:

Spock refers to the terra-forming of the volcanic area that they end up beaming down to as 'a small change', despite the reading of it becoming a thousand square kilometers of habitable land! I'd hardly call that drastic geological change as 'small'!

I like the relief communications officer's reaction in the background when Lincoln calls Uhura a 'negress'. It makes sense, as Uhura would be her superior, maybe even a friend, and well within earshot.

Kahless's imitation of Lincoln was so poorly done that Green probably thought it best just to kill Lincoln right there and then, since it was never used.


By Leanne on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 5:43 pm:

Does anyone agree with me that this is the worst episode ever?


By ScottN on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 6:53 pm:

Nope. Try The Way to Eden, or Spock's Brain.


By Charles Cabe (Ccabe) on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 10:11 am:

This episode rocked. It was way better than "The Way to Eden". PS I kinda liked "Spock's Brain", too.


By Adam Bomb on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 10:11 am:

Or The Cloud Minders, my personal choice.


By the 74s tm on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 10:15 am:

Brain and Brain what is Brain was the worst.Next is Way to Eden and Turnabout Kirk.


By ? on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 11:03 am:

should we have Trek worse or best episode list?
any Trek.


By Alan Hamilton (Alan) on Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 3:46 pm:

The remastered "The Savage Curtain" airs next weekend. Other than the standard orbital shots and a new Excalbia, there's probably not much changed. They could do a new wide shot of the surface, but I don't know if they will.

They probably can't do much with the shot of Space Lincoln.

Just four more left after this one, with a rerun of "The Omega Glory" the weekend of 7/5.


By He's Dead Jim on Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 8:06 pm:

I called it Abe Lincoln in Spacccccccccce in 1970s


By No Kill I on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 9:32 am:

Yarnek: Charles, I rocked?

:-)
(see smiley).


By Alan Hamilton (Alan) on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 11:44 pm:

The whole Space Lincoln thing never made any sense -- they beam him up from the planet a few minutes later, so I don't understand why it wasn't done as a transmission from the surface.


By Alan Hamilton (Alan) on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 6:18 pm:

A new volcanic-looking Excalbia (? - see below). The fade-in of Space Lincoln was done the same, albeit with a new style starfield behind him.

The Earth-like patch spreads very visibly across the planet's surface. Unless Excalbia is very small it looks way bigger than 1000 km^2. To convert to your old-style units that's a square 20 miles on each side.

The transformation effect of the Excalbian is unchanged. We can still see the structural integrity field on Kirk's pants fail when he kicks Green off him in the first fight. Lincoln admits his clothes are damaged; Kirk admits nothing.

The Excalbian says, "Our world is called Excalbia. Countless who live on that world are watching." (my emphasis) Since he didn't say "this world", it sort of implies this isn't isn't Excalbia itself. But later he says, "Have we not created on this planet, our world, a stage...." Maybe the universal translator messed up the tenses.

The story really is a retread of "Arena".

Lee Bergere is the bright spot in the episode. He's a terrific Lincoln.


By mike powers on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 8:18 pm:

If the Klingon Kahless was the "father" of the Klingon warrior code,I assume he,like Lincoln & Surek,lived centuries ago.So why did he have a contemporary Klingon military uniform on? Seems to me that as their culture evolved over the years so would their attire.It would have been more accurate(& fun)to see Kahless in an outfit from his era.


By ScottN on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 11:51 pm:

Because he was taken from Kirk's mind. That's also why he didn't have the forehead ridges.


By mike powers on Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 8:56 am:

Then why didn't Starfleet Academy have descriptions of historical info regarding early Klingon clothing? Wouldn't Kirk & the students have studied other cultures,seen pictures of those cultures cities,clothing,technology,& so forth? I'm sure that the production saved money by dressing Kahless in a present-day Klingon military uniform,but what a pity we were not able to view an early Klingon outfit. Especially the one worn by the founder of their culture.


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 10:23 pm:

Lincoln and the other recreations seemed to think they were whom they represented. So, when the Excalbians transformed their fellow rock creatures (according to Spock), did they also alter their memories to conform with whomever they became?

Lincoln, Surak, Green, and Kahless are all killed, two of them (Surak and Lincoln) killed by their fellow transformed Excalbians! Were they really dead, or were they just faking it and got up when Kirk and Spock left.

I'm guessing that Kahless was depicted as evil because the Excalbians got him from the records of the Enterprise. No doubt at that point, Federation knowledge of Klingon history and legends was very limited. They knew who Kahless was, obviously, but very little else about him. No doubt later on, as relations between the Federation and the Klingon Empire became more friendly, the Feds got the whole story and realized that Kahless was not such a bad guy after all.

Zora sure made a poor showing. Twice she gets thrown down and runs away! She was from Tiberon, the same planet that Dr. Sevrin came from (Way To Eden).

Scotty says that Lincoln died three centuries ago. Uh, Scotty, since you're in the 23rd Century and Lincoln lived in the 19th, that should be FOUR centuries ago!

Why does Kirk tell Lincoln that they can convert to minutes. They've ALWAYS used minutes!


By Benn (Benn) on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 11:25 pm:

Lincoln and the other recreations seemed to think they were whom they represented. So, when the Excalbians transformed their fellow rock creatures (according to Spock), did they also alter their memories to conform with whomever they became? - Tim McCree

It's also possible that the Excalibans, in impersonating the historical figures, were only saying they thought they were Lincoln and Surak. That is, they were pretending, or as they say in the acting business, committing to the part so that Kirk and Spock would be more willing to believe in them and play along with the Excaliban Morality Play.

Lincoln, Surak, Green, and Kahless are all killed, two of them (Surak and Lincoln) killed by their fellow transformed Excalbians! Were they really dead, or were they just faking it and got up when Kirk and Spock left. - Tim McCree

Most likely the latter. Again, it was probably done to help convince Kirk and Spock of the "reality" of their situation.

Live long and prosper.


By Luigi_novi (Luigi_novi) on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 1:20 am:

Strasburg would be proud.


By Adam Bomb (Abomb) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 10:12 am:

This weekend's re-mastered episode is "The Savage Curtain," with "By Any Other Name" airing the following weekend (2/22-23).


By Alan Hamilton (Alan) on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 9:30 pm:

Thanks for filling in, I was in Russia all week (no kidding).

I wanted to see the Garden of Eden.


By John A. Lang (Johnalang) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 5:03 pm:

Any Nuke-lear Wessels? :-)


By Andrew Gilbertson (Zarm_rkeeg) on Monday, July 06, 2009 - 7:36 am:

Just saw this episode for the first time last week- it was the last episode of the four True Treks(tm) :-) that I'd never seen. I liked it; a bit strange, as was the third season's penchant, but I felt the Lincoln story and his interactions with the crew made it worthwhile. Plus, it seemed they saved some of the best and most film-like angles of the Enterprise for this Remastered.


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 11:06 pm:

I wonder how this episode would play in Mongolia? Genghis Khan is somewhat of a national hero over there, he founded their country. There was this show on the History Channel, Digging For The Truth, and in one episode, they went over to Mongolia to learn about Genghis Khan. They showed how important he is to the Mongolians and their history.

Yet here he is depicted as evil and a coward (he runs away after making a pitiful showing). I don't think the Mongolians would be too thrilled about how one of their historical heroes were portrayed here.


By Francois Lacombe (Franc0is) on Monday, May 27, 2013 - 2:32 pm:

The Escalbians are though critters. The surface condition of their planet is that of molten lava, with an atmosphere poisonous to us. Yet, the Escalbian speaking with Kirk sits in the open in an evironment that must be insanely cold to him, with an atmosphere very different from the one he is used to. It's a lot like expecting a naked human to take a leisurely stroll on the surface of Titan and survive.

When Kirk, Spock and Lincoln beam down to the planet, you can see their equipment dematerializing right along with them. After they are gone, we are given a view of the transporter pads with the tricoder and phasers resting on them. The correct way to do that scene would have been to show the people vanishing, with the equipment remaining in place and falling to the floor afterward. Of course, it would have been a little more expensive to do, and quite complicated to make it look convincing.


By steve McKinnon (Steve) on Sunday, June 23, 2013 - 12:48 pm:

Re. the equipment falling-- that was a missed opportunity for the newly remastered special effects artists/technicians to provide us! They've done such excellent work, that they just had to computer-generate a couple phasers and a tricorder hovering in mid-air for barely 5 seconds, and half a second for the fall, and a one second 'Klunk!' sound effect as they hit the floor.

The Chief made an excellent nit in his book-- Lincoln should never have just walked up to the sliding doors of the transporter and passed through them as if this was common to him.
A man from the 19th century would stare at the doorway, looking for a handle, and when they opened up by themselves, he should have stepped back in a moment of surprise.


By Rogbodge (Nit_breaker) on Monday, December 08, 2014 - 8:02 am:

Hans Thielman on Tuesday, December 22, 1998 - 10:25 am: It was rude and unnecessarily provocative for security to be aiming their phasers at the Abraham Lincoln looking lifeform.
This is one time when it is better to be safe than sorry!

steve McKinnon (Steve) on Sunday, June 23, 2013 - 12:48 pm: The Chief made an excellent nit in his book-- Lincoln should never have just walked up to the sliding doors of the transporter and passed through them as if this was common to him. A man from the 19th century would stare at the doorway, looking for a handle, and when they opened up by themselves, he should have stepped back in a moment of surprise.
Lincoln is intelligent enough to reason that a culture capable of producing a transporter would have no trouble producing a self opening door, especially as he can see from the pad that it is set within a groove in the floor and lacks a doorknob.


By Keith Alan Morgan (Kmorgan) on Tuesday, December 09, 2014 - 3:22 am:

1. I think you're confusing Abraham Lincoln with Sherlock Holmes.

2. There is no groove in the floor for any of the sliding doors on the Enterprise, they are flat.


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Monday, July 23, 2018 - 5:28 am:

The Excalibans that took the form of Lincoln and the others seemed to really believe themselves that they were whom they claimed to be.

Either that, or they were very good actors.


By steve McKinnon (Steve) on Monday, July 23, 2018 - 6:14 am:

Excalbian Masterpiece Theater!


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Monday, July 23, 2018 - 10:16 pm:

I would nominate the lot of them for Emmys!


By Keith Alan Morgan (Kmorgan) on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 - 5:57 am:

But what they really want to do is direct. ;-)


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 5:31 am:

Of course, the Kahless we see here is nothing like the one we'll see on TNG.

Of course, the Excalbians got all this from scanning the Enterprise computer database. And, at this time, the Federation's knowledge of Klingon culture was very limited.

Yarnek (the rock creature) shows up in the novel, Savage Trade.


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Friday, March 22, 2019 - 5:07 am:

Barry Attwater, who played Surak, in this episode, appeared on an episode of One Step Beyond - "The Day The World Wept".

On that episode, Attwater played Abraham Lincoln (the episode dealt with the stories of those that predicted Lincoln's death, including Lincoln himself).


By steve McKinnon (Steve) on Monday, September 06, 2021 - 4:25 pm:

After beaming aboard the Enterprise, McCoy scans Lincoln and tells Kirk that his tricorder reads him as 'human'. "All too human, Doctor McCoy?" Lincoln asks.
Problem; Kirk never introduced McCoy by name. In fact, he turns around and introduces Spock, Scott, and Dickerson to Lincoln, who judging by his knowledge of McCoy, probably somehow knows who these guys are,too.

Kinda odd that as Kirk is getting reports on the Enterprise's status at the end of the show, Sulu and Chekov report about the warp engines and the anti-matter shielding. Isn't this something that Scotty should be reporting? Neither Sulu or Chekov are engineers.


By ScottN (Scottn) on Monday, September 06, 2021 - 9:30 pm:

Since Kirk and Spock are on the planet, I believe Scotty is currently in command.


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Tuesday, September 07, 2021 - 5:08 am:

After beaming aboard the Enterprise, McCoy scans Lincoln and tells Kirk that his tricorder reads him as 'human'. "All too human, Doctor McCoy?" Lincoln asks.
Problem; Kirk never introduced McCoy by name. In fact, he turns around and introduces Spock, Scott, and Dickerson to Lincoln, who judging by his knowledge of McCoy, probably somehow knows who these guys are,too.


The Excalbians scanned the databanks of the Enterprise, just before the image of Lincoln appeared on the view screen. No doubt said scanning included that of the personnel roster.


By steve McKinnon (Steve) on Tuesday, September 07, 2021 - 11:26 am:

Right, so introducing Spock and Scotty was rather repetitive to Lincoln, who had to act like he was hearing their names for the first time.


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Wednesday, September 08, 2021 - 5:11 am:

And "Lincoln" slipped up by saying McCoy's name. However, no one noticed.


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