Plato's Stepchildren

Nitcentral's Bulletin Brash Reflections: ClassicTrek: Season Three: Plato's Stepchildren

By D.K. Henderson on Friday, December 04, 1998 - 6:04 am:

I didn't have much to say on this episode; it was lovely. During the Sci Fi interviews, I thought it was funny that they kept emphasizing that interracial kiss, then finally said that they recieved NO negative letters from the fans. Personally, I think that the interSPECIES kiss with Spock and Christine would have been just as controversial, if not more so, but apparently not.

Just how, I wonder, did the Platonians "pare down" their population for their perfect Utopia?

Parmen says that Philosopher-Kings have no need of titles. Isn't P-K a title in itself?

Michael Dunn has a nice voice. I heard him sing a duet in the Wild Wild West; it was lovely.

Kirk seemed to really get into the kiss at the end. Spock, you can tell, is inexperienced; his kiss with Christine looks really awkward.

I loved it when Nichelle Nichols said Shatner kept fouling up the "no kiss" takes so that they would have to keep the "kiss" take.

Philana said that she stopped aging at thirty. All the women (what I could see of them) looked young, yet Parmen's hair was silver, and there was another man who looked significantly older than the rest. Why?


By D.K. Henderson on Sunday, December 06, 1998 - 10:12 am:

Forgot to put this in. Barbara Babcock has played: Trelane's mother, Mea Three, the voice of the computer in Assignment: Earth, the voice of Isis the cat in the same episode, the voice of Commander Loskene (I think), and Philana of Plato's Stepchildren. Very versatile. Did she ever do anything on the newer shows? If she hasn't, then she should have.

And I hope that I age as gracefully as she has.


By Murray Leeder on Sunday, December 06, 1998 - 11:03 am:

Also Mea 3 from "A Taste of Armageddon". And yes, she has aged quite well... she was a recurring character on Dr. Quinn.


By Anonymous on Sunday, December 06, 1998 - 2:08 pm:

I don't recall Isis saying anything.


By Mike Konczewski on Monday, December 07, 1998 - 8:33 am:

There is some confusion about the "Assignment: Earth" appearance. The IMDB lists Babcock as the voice of both the computer and Isis. My memory tells me Isis never said anything, she just purred. Maybe Babcock provided the purrs...


By Anonymous on Monday, December 07, 1998 - 10:56 am:

Barbara Babcock was a semi-regular on Hill Street Blues.


By Anonymous on Monday, December 07, 1998 - 11:50 am:

Who played Isis when she briefly transmuted into a woman?


By D.K. Henderson on Tuesday, December 08, 1998 - 5:47 am:

Barbara Babcock stated on the Sci Fi channel interview of this episode that she was asked to do the cat noises--meows, yowls, etc, because they couldn't trust the real cat to sound off on cue.


By MikeC on Saturday, January 16, 1999 - 3:43 pm:

GUEST STAR PATROL (No interracial kisses, but...)

Michael Dunn (Alexander) as noted, was on "The Wild, Wild West". He played Dr. Loveless.


By Jeff on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 3:09 pm:

Time for me to start a page based on missed Federation opportunities.

Having acheived the ability to replicate and even double Parmen's gift which gave him the power to shake up and possibly destroy the orbiting Enterprise, we should be able to say bye, bye Borg and Dominion. If Kirk could use the power responsibly, I'm sure others could.


By Mike Konczewski on Friday, January 29, 1999 - 7:08 am:

You know, these missed opportunities could be explained as part of a massive coverup by the secret organization that was revealed on DS9(Section 21? I forget). Anytime someone finds some incredible new technology, it gets hushed up by this secret group.

This is similiar to the ARM in Larry Niven's Known Space stories. The ARM are the UN's police force, and one of their responsibilities is to supress dangerous technology. Of course, ARM's definition of dangerous is pretty broad....


By Jeff on Saturday, February 27, 1999 - 11:37 am:

I wish somebody would explain it.


By Meg on Friday, May 28, 1999 - 5:14 pm:

I always thought that after awhile of not eating tha planet's native food that the effect might wear off.


By John A. Lang on Wednesday, February 16, 2000 - 3:11 am:

Hey....what happened to Alexander after this episode anyway? I thought he went with Kirk & Company to the ship....then *POOF!*


By Adam Bomb on Thursday, August 03, 2000 - 4:19 pm:

Is it true that Michael Dunn committed suicide? A later parallel is with actor David Rappaport, who committed suicide just before filming of the Next Gen episode "The Most Toys. He was hurriedly replaced by Saul Rubinek.


By MikeC on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 8:40 am:

According to the Internet Movie Database, Michael Dunn killed himself in 1973, at only age 38. However, King Spud's Great Character Actors Page states that Dunn died of respiratory and heart ailments that are common to dwarfism in 1973. I must admit the suicide story seems more widespread, though.


By Derf on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 9:38 pm:

>>Hey....what happened to Alexander after this episode anyway? I thought he went with Kirk & Company to the ship....then *POOF!*

Well, he may have become Dr. Loveless (James West's arch enemy in The Wild, Wild, West) because THAT series was running concurrently when this episode ran ... wasn't it?

And besides ... I've ALWAYS maintained that the actor who played Alexander was the munchkin in the middle who sang, "We represent the Lollipop Guild" in the movie The Wizard of Oz. If he was (in 1939) about 20 years old, by the late 1960's he'd be 50 or better.


By John A. Lang on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 10:35 pm:

Classic Line: "I'm Tweedledee, he's Tweedledum..."

Kirk under the mind control, dancing with Spock.


By Adam Bomb on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 6:40 pm:

Classic Guest: The late Liam Sullivan was in one of the best "Twilight Zone" eps-"The Silence", also starring Franchot Tone. Sullivan is a man who always talks, Tone is a man who craves his silence, and bets that Sullivan's character can't stay quiet for a year. Great twist ending.


By John A. Lang on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 11:58 pm:

Once again Uhura looks absolutely yummy in this episode


By Adam Bomb on Sunday, July 22, 2001 - 3:36 pm:

This may have been the last Trek episode to have an original score composed for it.
You ain't kidding, John. She gotta get off that bridge more.


By John A. Lang on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 5:17 pm:

Why am I not surprised about the Kirk & Uhura kissing scene?
Kirk was building up for it all during the 2nd season!

A. Kirk held Uhura's arms below the elbow in "Mirror, Mirror"
B. Kirk held Uhura's arms above the elbow in "I,Mudd"
C. Kirk held Uhura's shoulders and gave them a gentle massage in "The Immunity Syndrome"

As you can see, Kirk's hands have been almost everywhere on Uhura! The kiss was inevitable!

Now move over, Kirk, it's MY turn to kiss her!


By Meg on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 6:46 pm:

Or you should put it--"Hands off her, She's Mine!"


By John A. Lang on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 8:25 pm:

Meg---you said it, not me....leave me out of this. It seems some there's some flamers in our midst.

Missing Monologue: After the infamous kiss, Uhura SHOULD have said, "You've opened my hailing frequencies, Captain." :)


By John A. Lang on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 9:04 pm:

P.S. To all my friends, (whoever they are) Please do not enter "Rand barging in etc..." on this board. Some people are getting honked off by the concept.


By John A. Lang on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 8:28 pm:

DUMB LINE: Chapel's whining about not wanting to kiss Spock...if I was Kirk, I'd say, "Aw, clam up, Chapel! You know you wanted to kiss him, we all know you wanted to kiss him, so shut up and kiss him already!"
What Chapel SHOULD have said is, "Yes! Yes! Again! Again!"

A lot of the props come from "Bread & Circuses"

GREAT SHOT: Chapel & her bare naked legs!

Uhura is wearing the arm bracelet from "Mirror, Mirror"

The far away shots of Spock doing the Mexican hat dance is NOT Nimoy!

OOOH! Kirk uses a whip on Uhura! Kinky stuff! (just kidding :O )

Kirk's imitation of a horse is REALLY BAD!
It appears Shatner never played "horsey" with Melanie Shatner or any of his other kids.
What's even more surprising is that Shatner OWNS horses and he should know they don't sound ANYTHING like he did.

In one scene, McCoy's tricorder sceen shows a sickbay panel readout.


By John A. Lang on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 4:56 pm:

After Kirk gets the gold shield, the far way shots of Kirk have him holding the shield with the top parallel to his chest. However, in the closeups, the shield is gone.

DVD KUDOS....All of the flying stuff...no wires seen at all...including the floating hypo Phil mentioned in his book!


By John A., Lang on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 9:11 pm:

The footage of the ship shaking around in outer space comes from "Tomorrow is Yesterday"


By John A. Lang on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 9:14 pm:

Nimoy's (Spock's) singing is very well done.
I believe it was about this time he cut his album seen at the Rhino Records website.

Then Shatner came out with his.
My listening experience to "Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man" will never be the same.

"MISTER TAMBOURINE MAN!!!!!!!!"


By John A. Lang on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 9:17 pm:

PS....
Could could imagine Shatner singing "MacAuthur Park"????

YAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!


By John A. Lang on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 8:50 pm:

FUNNY THOUGHT: What if....instead of adapting Plato's philosophy, the people adapted Play-Doh's philospohy? :)

Kirk: "Look at this, Spock, I made a 'horsey'. Neigh! Whinney!"


By sac on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 11:08 am:

It seems to me that if Parmen could toss the Enterprise around when delirious, that he should have shaken his entire house to pieces, killing himself and everyone within it. The Enterprise must have the mass of something like a battleship, and was at a very great distance from Parmen (I wonder how he knew just where it was?): The pillars and walls of his house would weigh a lot less and be at close range.

Later, Parmen is able to lock the Enterprise into its orbit and control all its systems using his psychokinetic power. Not only that, he doesn't seem to need to concentrate to maintain his hold on the Enterprise. This is some serious power, putting Parmen on par with beings like Apollo and Trelane. And Kirk ends up with twice this power! As Phil and others have pointed out, the Federation need never fear another enemy after this discovery.


By sac on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 11:18 am:

What does Parmen think he is achieving by trying to coerce McCoy into staying? He must know that McCoy will eventually (in several months time) acquire psychokinetic powers equal to everyone else's, but without the disadvantage of getting massive infections from nicks and cuts. Won't McCoy, who will be justly angry for the treatment he and his friends received, be rather dangerous to have around at that point? And wouldn't he be rather dangerous even without psychokinetic powers? How does Parmen know what McCoy is putting in those hyposprays? Even if McCoy decides not to administer poison, couldn't he just do a really bad job of treating the next infection and let Parmen die? Anyhow, what good is having McCoy if you don't have a pharmaceutical plant? Even if all the medical supplies aboard the Enterprise were beamed down, they are liable to run out a few centuries into the millenia-long lifespans of the Platonians. Come to think of it, McCoy is going to be dead in less than a century anyhow: The Platonians' lifespans come from their eugenics program, not their psychokinetic powers.


By sac on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 11:22 am:

Is it really wise of Kirk to leave the Platonians living? Perhaps Starfleet will quarantine the planet, but how does Starfleet ensure that the Platonians won't escape? Didn't the Platonians fly here in some kind of starship? Maybe they've still got one. It seems very dangerous to take a chance on letting people with these kind of powers get loose.


By Anonymous on Saturday, January 05, 2002 - 1:39 am:

Maybe this has been brought up before, but does this episode really contain the first interracial kiss on television? What about Desi and Lucy?


By kerriem on Saturday, January 05, 2002 - 11:39 am:

Technically you're correct, of course, Anon.
In the interests of accuracy, the Kirk/Uhura smooch would be relabled 'Television's first kiss between the 'black' and 'white' races, which is a very big deal, because having these particular two races kiss would potentially offend the deeply held prejudices of a large segment of the viewing population/advertising audience, some of whom might also possibly make their displeasure known via firearms.'

You can see why the shorthand version would get used more often. :)


By John A. Lang on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 5:26 am:

DELETED LINE:

Uhura: (to Kirk) From the moment I first met you, all those years ago, a day hasn't gone by that I've not thought of you, and now that I'm with you again, I'm in agony. The closer I get to you the worse it gets. The thought of not being with you makes my stomach turn, my mouth goes dry. I get dizzy, I can't breathe. I'm haunted by that kiss you should never have given me. My heart is beating, hoping that kiss will not become a scar. What can I do? I will do anything you ask...If you are suffering as much as I am, please tell me.

(I thought it was time we re-hashed that line again)


By everyone on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 6:55 am:

Talk about beating a dead Sven! [Watch it - Sven of Nine]


By John A. Lang on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 7:28 pm:

GREAT MOMENT: Spock breaking the vase with his bare hand.


By Adam Bomb on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 9:28 am:

For some reason (probably to fit in another minute of ads), WPIX in New York had that scene cut from their print of this ep for years. When it was finally put back, it was almost a revelation, especially Nimoy's performance-marvelously restrained.


By Scott McClenny on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 3:10 pm:

Having shown that TPTB are totally clueless when it comes to early Christian History with "Bread And Circuses" in the second season,the same people now go ahead and show how ignorant they are concerning Greek philosophy with "Plato's Stepchildren".

It wouldn't be too bad if the writers had bothered to actually READ Plato's Republic before they wrote the script!


By kerriem on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 8:10 pm:

Uh, Scott, that's the point. These people claim to be Platonic in their ideals, but in reality they've corrupted Plato's original concept beyond recognition.


By Adam Bomb on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 10:07 pm:

John asked: Could you imagine Shatner singing "MacAuthur Park"????

Well, John, what about Shatner "singing":
"White Rabbit"
"Stairway To Heaven"
"Whiter Shade Of Pale"


Bill, if you're reading this, there's still time...


By Gordon Long on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 10:57 am:

Late in the episode, in the 'entertainment' room (where the kisses take place), in the theater seating section, there's one of the Platonians who has a dark fake beard and matching (seemingly) dyed hair...
I've always thought he resembled Russell Johnson, the Professor on Gilligan's Island. Kind of ironic, since in his bio/G.I. tell-all, he states he was a fan of Trek from the beginning and auditioned for parts several times. It would have been nice for him to get a few roles. Then he could have beat out Levar Burton as the first fan to act in Trek. (Of course, David Gerrold beats ALL fans to the punch with his Tribbles scpipt :).) LOL...


By Benn on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 11:24 am:

Actually Gordon, several fans, including Bjo Trimble and, I think maybe David Gerrold, are in the Rec-Room scene of STAR TREK - The Motion Picture. It's the scene where Kirk tells the crew about V'Ger. Many of the extras are Trekkies. They beat Levar Burton. They just didn't receive a credit for their appearances.

Live long and prosper.


By Gordon Long on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 9:46 pm:

Oh, wow, that's neat. I'm glad they had the chance...hope it didn't spoil the magic for them that we get from this side of the tube and screen...


By Benn on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 11:35 pm:

According to Walter Koenig's memoir, Chekov's Enterprise, a hundred and fifty fans were used as extras in that scene. Along with David Gerrold and Bjo Trimble, fans such as JoAnn Christy, Cedric Taporco, John Watts, Rosanna Attias and Susan Sackett (who was also Gene Roddenberry's secretary). Other notables in the crew include Millicent Wise (director Robert Wise's wife), hairdresser, Barbara Minster and makeup artist Ve Neill. (This information is culled from both Koenig's book and Bjo Trimble's On the Good Ship Enterprise.)

Live long and prosper.


By John A. Lang on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 9:26 am:

The wall in which McCoy gets thrown against is the same wall seen on the Fabrini's Oracle Room in "For The World is Hollow & I Have Touched the Sky"


By Adam Bomb on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 11:05 am:

David Gerrold amd Mrs. Wise were right up front in the crowd scene, in plain sight. Susan Sackett was standing on the upper level of the Rec Deck, near a window. The rest, I don't know, as I don't know what they look like. Mr. Wise goes into a bit more detail on the DVD's commentary track.
I had read that the fans were cast according to whether they fit the uniforms that were available. I also had heard that although the fans were paid, a lot of them never cashed their checks, preferring to keep them as souvenirs. Oh, what I would have given to have been there.


By Alan Hamilton on Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 3:56 pm:

In Kirk's opening log, he notes that the planet has large deposits of kironide, "a source of great power". However, they didn't know about its psychokinetic powers, so what "power" was Kirk describing?


By Merat on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 3:17 pm:

Energy, probably. Like Dilithium.


By Will on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 10:07 am:

Dilithium in my apples and oranges? Bleh. Spock states that the Platonians acquired their powers after eating the native foods. I'd say that it's a type of chemical or vitamin, as yet undiscovered in the 21st century.


By John A. Lang on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 10:27 am:

This is the last episode to have original music. Every episode after this has music from the first or second season...and occasionally the third. However, no NEW music appears after this.


By Adam Bomb on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 7:06 am:

Except for the songs in "The Way To Eden." Or, does that not count?


By John A. Lang on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 7:44 am:

The songs are new, but the other music isn''t. So I guess it does count.........that is, if you call those "SONGS"


By A Space Hippie on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 9:41 am:

Don't be such a Herbert!


By Mr Crusher on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 6:16 pm:

They are just as much songs as that "stuff" called Hip Hop and Rap is today.


By Martin Lukashenko on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:23 pm:

Is anybody else incredibly turned on by this episode? Not because of the S&M (though of course that appeals to some) but because the actors (for me, the actresses) are so hot and revealingly dressed and there's both an orgy AND an unresolved-sexual-tension vibe?

I mean, if Parmen could make Spock laugh and cry he could make people feel lust...

"Cupid's arrow kills Vulcans!"

>Once again Uhura looks absolutely yummy in this episode

>GREAT SHOT: Chapel & her bare naked legs!

Exactly. And just about every other shot of Christine in this ep. Creamy skin, luscious lips...

>Spock, you can tell, is inexperienced; his kiss with Christine looks really awkward.

It's a very HOT scene because of the UST that they're fighting even as they're forced to give in. The kiss is in full view and she's lying all the way down, just a few steps away from "loving in the breathless excitement of night." The awkwardness isn't because of either of them but a device to show that they're being forced.

Kirk and Uhura are really kissing; it's just shown at that crazy angle to try to hide it (which made NBC look racist).


By Martin Lukashenko on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 1:40 pm:

And: it's strange how most fans who write about this scene don't pick it up, but the moment when Spock's resistance to Parmen breaks in the love scene is when his eyes are forced open and he says to Christine, "I haven't the power. [That's how the Platonians describe what they do and it's a little stilted to American ears like they sound.]... I am deeply sorry... I have failed you."

That's obviously Parmen putting words in his mouth.

I think that's when he starts to make Spock feel desire for Christine.


By Benn on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 10:57 am:

Just before rewatching this ep on disc, I happened to be watching an episode of The Wild Wild West on disc.* Specifically, I was watching the ep, "The Night of the Whirring Death", the third Miguelito Loveless episode. It was interesting to see Michael Dunn in two different roles back to back. He really was a good actor. Never once in "Plato's Stepchildren" did I think of Dunn as "Dr. Loveless".

*I've been watching the first season of The Wild Wild West on DVD. It's about time it was released. I'm now waiting for the rest of the series to be released.

Live long and prosper.


By Alan Hamilton (Alan) on Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 11:05 pm:

Remastered episode airs this weekend. Other than Parmen shaking the ship, there's not much to update.


By Adam Bomb on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 6:50 am:

There were new shots of the ship orbiting the Platonian's planet (almost Earth-like now), as well as a new shot of the ship shaking, with the planet in the background. When McCoy took readings Alexander's blood, the sickbay readouts on the tricorder screen were replaced with a line graph. What I like about these enhancements is that they use fresh angles of the Enterprise.

Wish that it wasn't shown at $#@*%& 2:30 in the morning!


By Adam Bomb on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 8:20 am:

There were new shots of the ship orbiting the Platonian's planet (almost Earth-like now)...

Which also appears unduly large, which raises the question - What do 38 people need with such a large planet?


By Alan Hamilton (Alan) on Monday, June 18, 2007 - 10:01 pm:

That's a typical problem with all the Trek series; the whole population of a planet seems to be in a small area. A related problem is that all planets have either one or two governments. If two, they're at war.


By Adam Bomb on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 7:38 pm:

Philana said something like "A cut, or a break in the skin, can be fatal." So, how come one of the Platonians didn't die from a shaving cut? I assume they do have to shave, as Parmen has the shadow of a beard on his face. And, have you ever known anyone, man or woman, who never cut themselves while shaving?


By steve McKinnon (Steve) on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 7:14 am:

So Parmen and Lilana have been married for over 2000 years??? Man, that's devotion! Of course, how many other women are amongst the 'hearty vagabonds?' Everyone is probably accounted for with a separate mate. Even the old guy with the funny beard. Yech.

Parmen's missed opportunity; instead of manipulating Alexander with the knife, why didn't Parmen use his mind to throw ALL of the weapons on the stage at Kirk and the others? We already saw him fling multiple items around in his delusional state, why not now?

Alexander's missed opportunity; just throw the knife! Even if it doesn't imbed itself into Parmen a simple scratch is proven to be lethal.
And speaking of which...

2000 YEARS and not a SINGLE cut or abrasion? Sign this guy up as your safety director! It also would seem to indicate that in 2000 years nobody ever had pneumonia, despite those open glass-less windows in the building.

Uhura and Chapel must have had help or been forced into those dresses and makeup and hairstyles. There's no way they simply did it themselves.

The angle of the Platonians looking out at the stage is completely wrong. They're too far to the corner to actually see Kirk and crew interact.

Kirk's angry speech about the Platonians being 'half dead', and 'nothing inside' is one of my favorites.

I take it that the mass eugenics program accounts for the extreme age of the Platonians, but that also means that despite his dwarfism Alexander is over two thousand years old, as well. A slave for 2000 YEARS? The guy must be a total wreck mentally, moreso than he lets on.


By Alan Hamilton (Alan) on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 10:38 pm:

There's the caveat "could be" fatal. This is true for all of us -- a paper cut could result in a fatal infection that could kill you. In our favor is that we're more likely to have it treated if it starts getting bad. Nonetheless, there are some worrisome infections starting to go around that are resistant to antibiotics.

Given the odds, you probably won't be killed by one of these infections before something else kills you first. With the Platonians living for thousands of years, however, the odds get worse.


By Adam Bomb on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 11:29 am:

In the TV Land cut, Spock's song "Bitter Dregs" had a couple of lines eliminated. Either way, it's no competition for the greatest song ever recorded (IMHO) - "Gimme Shelter" by The Rolling Stones.


By He's Dead Jim on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 6:21 pm:

Plato's stepchildren and Wink of an Eye are the two most ununderstanable shows I can think of!


By ! on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 6:22 pm:

How do planets supernova? Stars do...


By He's Dead Jim on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 6:24 pm:

I Bet Mr. Leslie dressed up Uhura and Chapel in their costumes too!


By BobL on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 9:10 pm:

I recently purchased the season 3 DVD, and am working my way down to the worst episodes (at least as I remembered them: 'Spectre of the Gun' I actually enjoyed quite a bit).

Only a few notations about this one:

I liked how being on the planet for a while, the sky had darkened outside. Sometimes in episodes, there seems to be no change in the time of day (though there are many exceptions). Here, it was a detail they didn't need to add, but did.

McCoy said it'd take "some doing" to produce a massive dosage of Kironide, yet within maybe 30 seconds he had produced shots for everyone.

At the end, it seemed odd that Kirk produced his communicator from the outfit that he had been dressed in.


By Mr Crusher on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 9:39 am:

What was so odd about that? Thats the outfit he was wearing at the time, so where else would he have "produced" his communicator from?

This episode is always said to have featured the first interracial kiss in TV history, when Kirk kisses Uhura.


By Adam Bomb on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 10:36 am:

Here's a brief analysis of "The Sons of Socrates," the original outline for this episode.


By Todd Pence on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 2:24 pm:

Uhura and McCoy are froced to play "toesies??? WTH?


By Todd M. Pence (Tpence) on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 5:57 pm:

>This episode is always said to have featured >the first interracial kiss in TV history, when >Kirk kisses Uhura.

Actually, it wasn't. Some five years before "Plato's Stepchildren", Sidney Poitier kissed Anne Bancroft at the 1964 Oscars. It was even noted at the time as the first interracial kiss on TV by critic Jack Gould.


By Luigi_novi (Luigi_novi) on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 6:50 am:

They kissed on the lips?


By Todd M. Pence (Tpence) on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 8:44 am:

No, on the cheek. But Kirk and Uhura don't kiss on the lips either. At least, not for real.


By ScottN (Scottn) on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 9:08 am:

Was the Oscars kiss scripted or planned? If it was spontaneous, then the network's S&P didn't have a chance to say "H*LL NO!!". Whereas the Kirk/Uhura thing was scripted, and presumably approved by S&P.


By Todd M. Pence (Tpence) on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 9:31 am:

It was in all likelihood not scripted.


By Hes_dead_jim (Hes_dead_jim) on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 10:38 am:

Wouldnt the Romans be speaking Roman or something and Plato speeking Platoniun?

(Sgt. Schultz:They speek zo gut engli.I s ee nuttin I know nuttin I vas not here dis morning..)

(of course I know the real tv answer...)


By steve McKinnon (Steve) on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 10:40 am:

Todd - "But Kirk and Uhura don't kiss on the lips either. At least, not for real."

Well, they are, but it's not very good. Shatner definitely isn't puckering his lips like a normal kiss. It's more correct to say their 'mouths' are pressed against each other, rather than kissing.
They also turned Uhura around so that you couldn't get a good side view of the 'kiss' so it was still a cheat.


By Todd M. Pence (Tpence) on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 11:53 am:

I think Memory Alpha also debunked the myth that PS contained TV's first interracial kiss, but they used a different example than I did.


By Luigi_novi (Luigi_novi) on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 12:33 pm:

Maybe they don't count the Oscar thing, Todd, because they're referring to a passionate, man-woman kiss, even if they don't typically use the qualifier "on the lips".


By Alan Hamilton (Alan) on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 12:52 pm:

I guess it breaks down to what "race" and "kiss" you mean. As Memory Alpha points out, Kirk kissed Elaan, played by the half-Vietnamese France Nuyen.

Nancy Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jr. kissed on a TV special, but just a friendly greeting kiss.

The whole topic is hard to discuss simply due to the random and illogical "rules" and terminology regarding race and what was "allowed". Most often "interracial" actually meant "white and ____". If you were black and wanted to marry someone from Japan, that would be fine.

The last laws outlawing interracial marriage were overturned in 1967, just one year before this episode was broadcast.


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Monday, December 08, 2008 - 10:41 pm:

So, this lot were on Earth around the same time as Apollo and his group. Small world, even more since both of them were in the same area (Ancient Greece). From what Kirk said in his log, Parmen and Co. must have left Earth when the Romans conquered Greece, while Apollo and the other "gods" stayed until the Christians converted the Roman Empire.

Phil pointed this out in his book, but how can Parmen and Co. know about Earth AFTER they had left it. They have Kirk and Spock do that little "Tweedledee and Tweedeldum" thing, something that wasn't written until the 19th Century. The only way Parmen could do that was if he could access the Enterprise library files. Looks like the creators got telepathy (the ability to read minds and computer files) and telekenesis (the power Parmen and his lot have) mixed up.

Did Alexander take that name when he was on Earth? It is a very human name, after all.


By Preston Nevins (Pres) on Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 4:22 am:

On Kirk's "Is that a communicator in your toga or are you just happy to see me?" trick: Maybe he unconsciously used his double-kironide powers to have the communicator fly to his hip where he expected it to be just as he reached for it (probably knocking down half a dozen Platonians a la Three Stooges as it flew down the hallway).

Ten years before the Force went mainstream, Kirk was totally using' it!


By Todd M. Pence (Tpence) on Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 7:21 am:

>Phil pointed this out in his book, but how can >Parmen and Co. know about Earth AFTER they had >left it. They have Kirk and Spock do that >little "Tweedledee and Tweedeldum" thing, >something that wasn't written until the 19th >Century. The only way Parmen could do that was >if he could access the Enterprise library >files. Looks like the creators got telepathy >(the ability to read minds and computer files) >and telekenesis (the power Parmen and his lot >have) mixed up.

It's possible that Parmen's mental command to Spock and Kirk simply consisted of forcing them to recite some non-specific nonsense verse, which would come from their own knowledge. Spock I believe mentions in the animated "Once Upon a Planet" that his mother was fond of the works of Lewis Carroll, and presumably read them to Spock when he was a child. The characters of Tweedledee and Tweedledum appear prominently in the Alice books, and it is possible that Spock's memory instantly pulled their names forth when Parmen's mental command forced him to recite a nonsense rhyme.


By Luigi_novi (Luigi_novi) on Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 5:10 pm:

The Platonians' powers were described as psychokinetic, or telekinetic, and thus, they should only have been able to move things physically, and nothing else, so much of what they made Kirk and co. do made no sense anyway. T.

At one point, they make Kirk and Spock dance and sing for their amusement, and make Kirk bray like a horse. The dancing makes sense, but how can they make them sing or bray? Kirk and Spock's brains’ speech centers, lungs, vocal cords and tongues are inside their bodies, where the Platonians can’t see them. The Platonians force Spock to feel humor and sadness, even though emotions are controlled by electrochemical responses in the brain. True, Parmen, in his delirium, did lash out telekinetically at anyone or anything, including the Enterprise, and he did say his mind would eventually find someone who hid from him, but if that’s the case, why did Philana cover Parmen’s eyes during his delirium, hoping that that would cease his attacks? And how does he manipulate the Enterprise’s transporters? Where did he learn to use them? How did he know its user command codes?


By Nove Rockhoomer (Noverockhoomer) on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 8:21 pm:

I always assumed that Spock was not feeling humor or sadness, but only exhibiting the physical manifestations of those emotions. There's no evidence that he felt the emotions he seemed to be displaying.

Also, maybe when Philana covered Parmen's eyes, she wasn't thinking he would cease his attacks, but it might make it more difficult for him, which would be better than nothing - the same reason McCoy tried shaking him.


By Todd M. Pence (Tpence) on Sunday, February 22, 2009 - 1:07 pm:

The Platonian's power sounds like it was similar in nature to Charlie Evans'. Remember, Charlie also forced Spock to recite poetry.


By Keith Alan Morgan (Kmorgan) on Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 1:40 am:

Parmen says, "Uncontrolled power can make even saints into sinners."
Sounds like a self-justification to me. I seriously doubt Parmen was a saint to begin with, although he probably wanted to believe he was. (I don't believe that power corrupts. I believe that power reveals. People who pretend to be good, show their true selves when they have power, but people who actually are good, stay good.)


By steve McKinnon (Steve) on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 - 11:00 am:

Michael Dunn who played Alexander has the honor of being the first major bad guy on 'Get Smart'.

He played Mister Big in the pilot episode.


By Francois Lacombe (Franc0is) on Tuesday, May 14, 2013 - 6:29 pm:

Alexander is a bit of an enigma. He obviously is the product of the same eugenics program that produced the other Platonians since he shares their longevity. And yet, he is a dwarf. Isn't the whole point of a eugenics program to eliminate such "aberrations" and create physically ideal individuals?

Look at Philana's expression as Parmen forces Kirk and Spock to use instruments of torture on Uhura and Chapel. The woman is anticipating the imminent carnage with great pleasure. She is the true sadist on that planet.


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Wednesday, May 15, 2013 - 12:01 am:

These people are not like Khan and Co., genetically engineered from Day One, rather they started out normal and then found a way to make themselves immortal. Alexander was already alive when that happened.


By steve McKinnon (Steve) on Monday, July 08, 2013 - 11:52 am:

Kirk immediately ripped off his collar of obedience in The Gamesters of Triskelion, so I wonder why he and Spock continued to wear the silly garland crowns, after Parman was defeated?
And just how embarrassing was it for him to beam up to the ship dressed like that?
Did he remain inside the transporter room and have someone bring him a uniform? Would he actually walk all the way to his quarters in that get-up and change there, allowing who knows how many crewmen to see him in a silly costume?


By Benn (Benn) on Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 9:26 am:

Hey, if he was okay with running through the ship dressed like Spock's half-brother...


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Thursday, July 11, 2013 - 12:00 am:

Yeah, why didn't they recover their uniforms. A nearly fifty-year-old mystery :-)


By Adam Bomb (Abomb) on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 1:23 pm:

The "first interracial kiss in TV history" legend was very well dissected and debunked by the Agony Booth last year. The article was recently updated; it can be read here.


By Felix Atagong (Felix_atagong) on Sunday, February 21, 2016 - 12:14 pm:

Perhaps the kironide only works as a telekinesis inducer on the planet's surface, for reasons unspecified. That could explain why it was never used elsewhere.

Kirk has a lot of confidence in Parmen. The Platonian can easily destroy the Enterprise after the landing team (with Alexander) beams aboard.

(Of course it is logical to think that the Enterprise must have warned Starfleet about the distress signal and where it was coming from, before heading to the planet.)


By Adam Bomb (Abomb) on Tuesday, April 05, 2016 - 11:50 am:

A third-draft script for this episode can be viewed in PDF form here. It has Bob Justman's "John Hancock" on it, though I don't know if it was his personal copy. Also, check out that note in longhand on the cover.


By ScottN (Scottn) on Tuesday, April 05, 2016 - 4:35 pm:

I'm assuming that the 50 year watermark is on the image, not on the document itself.


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 5:33 am:

In the Trek Universe, Erich von Däniken and Giorgio A. Tsoukalos are right about Ancient Aliens visiting Earth!


By steve McKinnon (Steve) on Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 6:13 am:

'Yeah, why didn't they recover their uniforms.'

Not only that, but you'll recall that Parmen used his mind to grab Kirk's phaser, so he still has that! So he has the most powerful mind and a deadly weapon to hang onto power.

Back in 2007 I said 'Uhura and Chapel must have had help or been forced into those dresses and makeup and hairstyles. There's no way they simply did it themselves'
That would go double for Kirk and Spock. However, as Phil stated in his Nitpicker's book, isn't it convenient that Kirk was allowed to keep his communicator, AND have it on him at the end of the episode to call the ship.

Alexander lied to Kirk at the beginning of the episode. He told him that he thought the Platonians were just born with the power. However, once he wants to turn against them, he tells him that he distinctly remembers the power appearing in the Platonians 6 months after they came to Platonius.
Was he covering for Parmen and the others, or did the writer forget what he'd written in the first act?


By Tim McCree (Tim_m) on Friday, March 01, 2019 - 5:17 am:

It was possible that Alexander initially covered for Parmen and the others. The poor guy had been bullied by them for over 2000 years, after all.

Some have pointed out that these powers were never mentioned again. It's possible that, following this story, Starfleet slapped an Off Limits about Platonus.

Of course, Section 31 would have no qualms about exploiting those powers.


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