As Spock mind melds with V'Ger a series of images flashes through his mind. Just for the record, they mainly consist of the same images over and over again, namely Ilia, Epsilon 5, Voyager 6, the Voyager 6 plaque featuring a human and the position of Earth, and what appears to be the female officer from Epsilon 5, since you can see hair on her, which Ilia, obviously, doesn't have.
A very interesting web-site shows their idea of what V-Ger looks like from a distance, and compares it to other big and small science fiction ships, including all of the Enterprises, Voyager, DS9, Star Wars' star destroyers and Deathstar, Babylon 5 ships, and even King Kong and Godzilla, and many, many more. You can click on a ship, and drag it up or down to position, for example Kirk's Enterprise with the Defiant, or a 747 airliner beside the Galileo 7 shuttle. I'd highly recommend it for people into such things.
The web-site is;
http://mirror.wolffelaar.nl/zardalu.sytes.net
People keep mentioning the studio rafters visible when Kirk exits the ship, but I can't see it on my tape, mainly because it's from tv. Is this only visible on the wide-screen version? Exactly where on the screen should I see the rafters, and what exact scene should I see them? When Kirk's alone? Before or after Spock shows up?
Thanks in advance.
As Kirk floats down from the Enterprise, they're above him, maybe to the left, I forget, but it is just a few seconds worth of rafters as Kirk exits the Enterprise.
Sir Rhosis
At the end of the movie, Kirk asks if they've just witnessed a re-birth, and Spock says 'Yes, possibly the next step in our evolution'. McCoy adds that he hopes they got this one off to a good start.
I realize they're talking about the V'Ger/Decker merging, but it could almost be the writers talking about the rebirth of Star Trek as a series of movies, which evolved from the original series.
Anyone read the bit about ST: TMP in Nimoy's I am Spock? It seems like Roddenberry was going for an ambitious, edgy story about the search for God (in fact I think the working title for the film was "The God Thing" and later "In Thy Image") and that at one point, the V'Ger probe appeared on the bridge as an image of Jesus Christ, bleeding from the hands and feet. But of course they figured such a thing wouldn't be palatable to the censors/general audience and ended up toning it way down. I think this ended up happening with Shatner with his original vision of ST5.
I also recall hearing that Rodenberry considered a time travel story for the movie, where someone goes back and prevents JFK's assassination, which damages the timeline and forces the crew to travel back in time to correct it; i.e., ensure that the president dies. I think this plot was rejected early on, but Rodenberry continued to pitch it repeatedly for many later projects.
Director: So...any ideas?
*Gene raises his hand*
Director: That don't involve JFK and time travel?
*Gene lowers his hand*
IIRC, Spielberg did that one for his "Amazing Stories" TV Anthology.
The kicker was that the guy was one of Kennedy's descendants, and he wound up trading places with JFK, and JFK went into the future, and the guy got shot instead of JFK.
See also Red Dwarf's "Tikka to Ride" from Season Seven.
Yeah, Kennedy was played by Andrew Robinson, who played Garak on DS9, and the descendant was played by Lane Smith, a character actor known for among other things, his role on V The Series.
Shatner goes into Gene's ideas about the JFK thing, and how Gene thought Shatner ripped off his "God Thing" story when he wrote ST V, which as he told it, is not what happened, in his book, Star Trek Movie Memories.
"IIRC, Spielberg did that one for his "Amazing Stories" TV Anthology."
Acutally, Scott I think you're referring to one of the "New Twilight Zone" episodes from the late 70's.
I thought the New Twilight Zone was early- or mid-1980's, after TZ: The Movie came out.
Yes, I stand corrected on the time period. It was the mid-eighties.
The TZ episode was entitled "Profile in Silver." (the descendant carried around a JFK half-dollar)
Toward the end of the film, Decker says that Voyager 6 "disappeared into what used to be called a blackhole."
What are blackholes called by the 23rd Century? Wormholes?(that would explain Kirk's response["It must've emerged on the far side of the galaxy"]).
It can't be that, because a black hole and a worm hole are not the same thing. It's possible that the phrase "black hole" is not used any more, which is corroborated by the fact that in Parallax, they use the phrase "singularity," and by the fact that (assuming I'm not missing anything) nowhere else have they ever used the phrase "black hole."
Wasn't the term "black hole" used in the ep, "Tomorrow Is Yesterday"?
Live long and prosper.
That line always bugged me. It's like saying "I'm going to put the milk back into what they used to call an icebox." Like Jared said, what would they call it "now"?
That was a Black Star.
Well, now they would call it a freezer. Does anyone use "icebox" today?
Luigi asked: Does anyone use "icebox" today?
My parents still use the term. My mom has been calling the refrigerator an "ice box" as long as I can remember, although the only ice box I've been exposed to was the one on The Honeymooners.
R is correct, Benn. Furthermore, the book The Physics Of Star Trek actually discusses the timing and IIRC Tomorrow Is Yesterday aired a few months before the coining of the term "black hole".
As for Kirk's line, maybe he'd been recently reading an old book and the term was in his head?
As for Kirk's line, maybe he'd been recently reading an old book and the term was in his head?
Actually, it was Decker's line.
Okay. It's been too long since I've seen the ep, I thought the term "black hole" was used. It was definitely used in TAS ep, "The Counter Clockwise Incident". But most people do not consider the Animateds to be canon, so...
Live long and prosper.
Will: People keep mentioning the studio rafters visible when Kirk exits the ship, but I can't see it on my tape, mainly because it's from tv. Is this only visible on the wide-screen version? Exactly where on the screen should I see the rafters, and what exact scene should I see them? When Kirk's alone? Before or after Spock shows up?
Sir Rhosis gave the correct answer as to which scene it is in ... I was watching the widescreen version just the other day and the rafters are visible in the upper right of the screen, and a small portion on the upper left. ALSO, near the end of Kirk's flight out of the doors, if you look to the extreme right of the screen, you can see a stage-crewman's forearm and hand moving. This scene was cut from the Director's Edition of the movie.
Actually, that was called The Counter-Clock Incident.
Ya know, Benn ... I've always wanted to translate Spock's "Live Long and Prosper" into English, that is:
Get Old and Rich
You're right, LUIGI. Can I use the excuse that I just woke up? Please? (No, really I did just wake up.)
LOL Derf. (I need to get your email addy again so I can drop you a line. It's been awhile since we've talked. A year since I've moved, actually.)
Live long and prosper.
Derf, that's the Ferengi version.
Ya know, Benn ... I've always wanted to translate Spock's "Live Long and Prosper" into English, that is:
Get Old and Rich
How about Free Sex, Drugs and Rock'n Roll!
Oh thanks. I always like it when i am right. :-) And I like Derf's translation Ferengi or Corporate it may be.
Actually, it was Decker's line.
Whoops! Wasn't reading carefully enough.
Although that does create another possible explanation. Maybe Decker feels Kirk would get the black hole reference rather than whatever the 'current' term is?
Decker: ...disappeared into a gravitational singularity.
Kirk: A what?
Decker: A black hole.
Kirk: Oh.
Decker: Not the drink.
Scene: Just After The Kobyashi Maru Test - Kirk Walking Down The Corridor Through Another Door And Encountering Spock ...
There is a sign posted in the corridor which reads:
Use Of This Facility With Authorized Supervision Only - Reservations Must Be Made 24 Hours In Advance With Master Of Arms
I'm not sure about the "master of arms" ... the sign may read something else, BUT, I am curious about the officer's name and other writing at the bottom of the sign which is too small of print for me to read on the screen.
After a quick websearch, I believe it should be Master At Arms ...
The Kobiyashi Maru was in STII, not ST:TMP.
You are correct, Senior Scott ... my bad. I've posted this query in the wrong movie board ... DERN! (a common ailment among nitpickers ... ineptpostitis)
Years ago, I used to have a VCR with a time lapse counter...anyway, I timed the V'Ger flyby scenes as I fast forwarded through them...45 MINUTES! Ok, if you talk to the regulars for 5 minutes each...that wouldn't be wasted time, would it?
Also years ago, in one of the Best of Trek collections, it was pointed out that in regards to the transporter accident: When Kirk reaches engineering, Decker, Scotty, and Cleary are working on the transporter circuits. Kirk pulls Decker away. In the background, Scotty is watching their convo--ignoring Cleary's work. So, either Cleary made the mistake that led to the accident, or Scotty would have corrected it on his own. If Kirk hadn't shown up, they might have fixed things. Going on, they rush into the transporter room. Kirk shoves Rand aside, looking for a specific control he has no clue where it is since the refit. Again, Scotty, Decker, or Rand could have accomplished that.
Of course, the whole thing could have been avoided if Vice Admiral Ciana hadn't been so dang eager to beam up and report to Kirk. (In the novel, she had been Kirk's lover and sounding board while he decompressed from the 5 year mission, apparently on orders from Nogura.) I had the impression she's as headstrong as Kirk and would have rushed into things as much...
A shame about losing Sonak. In the brief scene earlier, he seems like he is as good an officer as Sulu, and had earned his posting.
This film actually sorta acts like a pilot for the other films, and like every other pilot, has the amazing coincidence of running into superior beings who are just barely defeated by our heroes (Talosians, Gary Mitchell, Q, Wormhole Aliens [well not defeated here, but dealt with], Caretaker, and the temporal cold war on Enterprise).
Is this the only place where sublight speed is given as a fractional warp? Warp 0.5 and 0.8 are specifically mentioned. Or did they do it in Elaan of Troyius? I belive the Blish version mentioned Warp 0.3 there.
Also, if they were in warp in the wormhole, this movie establishes that photon torpedos are usable at warp; and that phasers should be usable there as well (they were unusable because of the warp instability).
Yes. They did it in "Elaan of Troyius" as well.
Ambassador Petri wanted time to instruct....er...make Elaan acquainted with the customs and manners of his people.
The 1979 theatrical version has been playing on the American Movie Classics channel of late (along with Wrath of Khan.). Anyone been watching? It seems that the film has been speeded up to fit into a 2 1/2 hour (with commercials) time slot. Most TV showings have run three hours, with ads.
The copyright holder for this film is something called "Century Associates", rather than Paramount Pictures. Anyone know why? Is it some sort of tax shelter, or the like?
The director's cut edition of the film was generally an unimpressive (and minimal) attempt to improve/reedit the film. The best improvement was the new digital shots on Vulcan. That moon was removed (the old series stated Vulcan had no moon) and the new matte of the Vulcan statues made clear what those strange red crystaline shapes were a part of.
I hated the new scenes in the cloud. The old dense field of cubes were better than the new "bridge" effect.
It was minimal because they decided to only do stuff like they would have wanted to at the time, if they would have had the time to tweak it. And I like the bridge effect better.
I find overall the changes much more pleasing (and less jarring) than the "updated" version of Star Wars.
I wanted to post this to the "ST-TMP" board, but there was no "Add A Message" box there. It seems that "Galaxy Quest," a film that was called "the best "Star Trek" movie since "Wrath of Khan" has at least one ST connection-Linda De Scenna, set decorator of ST-TMP, is credited as production designer of "Galaxy Quest"
Moved here by the Moderator, sorry it took so long.
If Galaxy Quest had the TOS cast, it would have been a nice end to the series, don't you think?
YES -- I always thought that while watching it. Why not have the actors playing themselves? I can see Nimoy and Shatner having a ball with the situations. Unfortunately, I believe Deforest Kelley was ill about the time this movie was being made.
The more I think about the Klingon attack the more I begin to regard it as a wimpy, lack lustre attempt by the Klingons. Three torpesoes? Against something that's almost 2 billion miles across? (Using the new 2 A.U.s measurement in the new version of the movie) 2 billion miles would be the width of something from one side of the Earth's orbit to the direct opposite side, and yet only one ship fires on the cloud, and then does an evasive. You'd think they pour on the torpedoes and phasers and watch the fireworks.
My 2 cents about the Director's edition of the movie: 5 stars! Excellent work to all involved!
2 AU is only 200 Million miles across.
I stand corrected. But 3 torpedoes ain't gonna amount to anything against something that big, even if it were made out of tin!
Spock gets emotions and sentiment at the end but this is never dealt with in subsequent movies or episodes. Why not? And why didn't any of you mention it?
Shaving Ilia's head didn't make her seem any sexier, at least not to me; what did the rest of you think?
One line has grated on me all these years.
"My oath of celibacy is on record, captain. I would never take advantage of a sexually immature species."
This line is so wrong on so many levels.
Adult humans can reproduce, therefore are sexually mature.
It's safe to assume it's not actually the species that's a problem, it's individual members whose behavior may be a problem. So she shouldn't have said "species".
So should she take a pill to reduce the pheromones or should the other crewmembers take a pill? Would sufficiently strong pheromones affect female humans who aren't gay or male humans who are?
If she wouldn't take advantage, the requirement of taking the oath might be considered unneccessary or even insulting.
If she meant humans are emotionally immature then she should have said so.
But the humans don't act like 12-year-olds, even in the shower scene. They treat her like any human female. So the pheromones bit seems unneccesary and irrelevant.
If by "immature" she's referring to the evolutionary development of the human species, how would she know how human sexuality will evolve in the future?
If humans react more strongly to the pheromones than Deltans do, then that's a matter of genetics/biochemistry, not maturity.
In all of Trek, is there any other single line which has so many nits? 
Perhaps her species was once like humans are and than they evolved to what they are now.
She still doesn't know that humans will evolve in the same way. Humans would evolve in many different ways when they colonize planets and different regions of space. And some time in the future humans might start doing genetic engineering.
And how is having overwhelming pheromones considered more "mature" anyway?
Why would they need such strong pheromones?
And why isn't Kirk required to take an oath of celibacy?
And why isn't Kirk required to take an oath of celibacy?
He wouldn't be able to keep it?
Today is the 25th anniversary of the release of Star Trek - The Motion Picture.
"My oath of celibacy is on record, captain. I would never take advantage of a sexually immature species."
Actually, those were two lines from Ilia. The first line was spoken to Kirk; the second was spoken to Decker. And, only the first line was seen in the theatrical version.
Years ago, I used to have a VCR with a time lapse counter...anyway, I timed the V'Ger flyby scenes as I fast forwarded through them...45 MINUTES!
I don't know how much off your timer is, Gordon. The music for "The Cloud" from the soundtrack CD is 4 mins. 59 secs, and the "V'Ger Flyover" is 4:55. (Both these cuts cover those scenes in their entirety.)
John A. Lang: Something has always bothered me in this movie.
The transporter malfunctions, Kirk rushes into the transporter room and Janice Rand is at the controls....after the tragedy finishes its course,Kirk says, "There's nothing you could've done Rand, it wasn't your fault." AND THAT'S IT!
Um, John: 2 people just DIED. Now is not the time for small talk. (And, if you believe Rodenberry's novelization, one of them was Kirk's ex-wife. I don't think he's looking to rekindle anything.)
According to IMDB and the film's end credits, the actress that played Kirk's ex-wife was Susan J. Sullivan. She's been a major TV presence since her role on Rich Man, Poor Man Book II in the late 1970's. Of late, she played the snooty and snobby mother of Greg (Thomas Gibson) in that classic example of sitcom awfulness, Dharma and Greg.
Glad you enjoy the site and welcome. Feel free to add anything that comes to mind. We have a variety of boards on a variety of topics.
Live long and prosper.
In Zeiten von massenhaft Websitenmüll im Internet eine sehr gut aufgebaute Website, nicht überdimensioniertes Design und sehr gut recher-schierte Hintergrundinformationen.
Luigi Novi: Yes, I suppose, but what does that have to do with this movie?
I suspect we're being spammed, judging by the previous eleven Anonymous posts.
Well, better be spammed with compliments, then with flame-bait/Troll posts, right?
(The comment means: "In times of massive amounts of trash websites on the Internet a very good designed Website, not oversized Design, and very good researched Background information.") Yes, it doesn't quite fit, but get the compliments while they come
RIP Robert Wise
1914-2005
http://news.yahoo.com/s/eo/20050915/en_movies_eo/17371
Hes dead Jim.
More Spam moved to the dump. Sigh.
Copied from TMQ on NFL.com. (Yes, NFL.com)
Life Imitates Sci-Fi :Last week astronomers confirmed that Voyager 1, a space probe launched by NASA in 1977, has become the first artificial object to reach the "heliosheath." This is the boundary of the solar system, an area where solar wind from our sun stops and the interstellar medium begins. The heliosheath is about 95 astronomical units away, meaning about 95 times as far here as the Earth is from the sun. Details on Voyager's exit from the solar system are here at the mission home page, including an "interstellar video." Anyway, there is something critically important I must tell you about Voyager -- but first, a digression to Star Trek.
In the 1979 movie Star Trek: the Motion Picture, in the 23rd century Kirk and Spock encounter a colossal machine, nearly the size of a planet, that has extremely advanced technical knowledge, including invincible weaponry and the ability to materialize objects the size of starships. The machine calls itself V'Ger. At the center of V'Ger, Kirk and Spock find -- the Voyager probe launched by NASA in 1977! The explanation is that the probe fell into a black hole and was transported to a planet of living machines; the living machines gave Voyager super-advanced technology to allow it to fulfill its NASA-programmed mission of learning about the galaxy; V'Ger used the super-advanced technology to acquire all possible technical knowledge, but in the process became hostile to carbon-based life forms.
Star Trek: the Motion Picture has one of the best goofy scenes in the annals of sci-fi. V'Ger reaches Earth and threatens to destroy the planet. When all seems lost, Kirk notices that a wire is loose on the outside of the Voyager probe at the center of V'Ger's brain; Kirk re-connects the wire, and instantly V'Ger becomes friendly. So this device possesses ultimate knowledge of technology, yet can't figure out how to attach a wire? Star Trek: the Motion Picture ends with one of the plot quirks too common in sci-fi -- namely, an incredible discovery that is immediately forgotten. Repaired, V'Ger decides to ascend to a higher plane of existence. Before doing so, V'Ger fulfills its mission by transmitting to Earth everything it has learned -- that is, gives humanity all possible technical knowledge. Yet when the next Star Trek movie comes along, the information from V'Ger has been totally forgotten and the shields and warp engines are failing just like before.
Say, can you see a loose wire anywhere?
Why do I mention all this? First, this is Tuesday Morning Quarterback: I don't have to have a reason. Second, NASA has said it soon intends to switch off Voyager. Why turn off a space probe that is functioning just fine? Officially this is to save money on telemetry monitoring. Yours truly suspects the real reason is that NASA learned Voyager is about to fall into a black hole, and wants to deactivate the probe before it can be transported to a planet of living machines and acquire ultimate power! Fun fact: Voyager has an 8-kilobyte active memory in its main computers, versus a standard 128 megabytes in new desktop PCs for home use. That is to say, your home computer has 16,000 times more processing power than the computer running a spacecraft that has left the solar system.
Voyager has an 8-kilobyte active memory in its main computers, versus a standard 128 megabytes in new desktop PCs for home use. That is to say, your home computer has 16,000 times more processing power than the computer running a spacecraft that has left the solar system.
Not quite correct. Your home comoputer has 16000 times more MEMORY. I suspect that it has maybe a 1MHz CPU (couldn't find detailed specs on JPL's site), your desktop PC processor has only about 2-3000 times more processing power (actually, its proably 4-6000 times more, but let's not quibble).
RE: Blue Berry: It was DECKER that reconnected the wire on V'Ger...not Kirk.
V'Ger fulfills its mission by transmitting to Earth everything it has learned -- that is, gives humanity all possible technical knowledge. Yet when the next Star Trek movie comes along, the information from V'Ger has been totally forgotten and the shields and warp engines are failing just like before.
Really? I never got that from the movie. But now that I think about it, of course that was its mission. Perhaps we just didn't have the proper technology to receive the information.
At the center of V'Ger, Kirk and Spock find -- the Voyager probe launched by NASA in 1977!
The probe from ST-TMP is Voyager 6. But, in reality, there were only two Voyagers launched. IIRC, Voyager 2 was launched first.
Hmmm, I'm gonna try something and see if it works.